Have Fun
July 3, 2022 12:28 PM Subscribe
Fun—when your rulers would rather you not have it, and when the agents of social programming insist on stirring nonstop apprehension over the current crisis and the next one, the better to keep you submissive and in suspense—is elementally subversive. Fun is ideologically neutral, advancing and empowering no cause. Fun is self-serving and without ambition. It wishes only to be. It produces nothing for the collective and may represent a withdrawal from the collective, temporarily at least. Your fun belongs to you alone. from The Holy Anarchy of Fun by Walter Kirn
There are many things to like about this piece. But the comments that follow it are not one of them.
posted by Artifice_Eternity at 12:56 PM on July 3, 2022 [6 favorites]
posted by Artifice_Eternity at 12:56 PM on July 3, 2022 [6 favorites]
I think this would have been better without the subtext, but then I don't think it would have been published. I did like what it had to say about fun, though.
posted by bleep at 1:49 PM on July 3, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by bleep at 1:49 PM on July 3, 2022 [1 favorite]
Fun is exhausting. I'll have fun two, maybe three times a year, but I always need a few days to recover afterwards.
posted by Faint of Butt at 2:06 PM on July 3, 2022 [6 favorites]
posted by Faint of Butt at 2:06 PM on July 3, 2022 [6 favorites]
There are many things to like about this piece. But the comments that follow it are not one of them.
Yeah, Kirn has a Taibbi/Slate Star Codex-adjacent "I'm a truth-telling anti-wokeism contrarian!" streak; not surprised to see all the wannabe fascists in the comments. To wit, this is from an article about him in the WSJ:
'Reporters with an agenda described Mr. Rittenhouse as “a racist vigilante, aggressively seeking trouble,” Mr. Kirn says. The evidence at trial suggested something different: that he was “a sort of boy, a little bit out of his depth, in a terribly chaotic situation of fires and looting and destruction, who thought he was going to be a Mark Twain character—an armed Huckleberry Finn.”'
posted by Lyme Drop at 3:41 PM on July 3, 2022 [8 favorites]
Yeah, Kirn has a Taibbi/Slate Star Codex-adjacent "I'm a truth-telling anti-wokeism contrarian!" streak; not surprised to see all the wannabe fascists in the comments. To wit, this is from an article about him in the WSJ:
'Reporters with an agenda described Mr. Rittenhouse as “a racist vigilante, aggressively seeking trouble,” Mr. Kirn says. The evidence at trial suggested something different: that he was “a sort of boy, a little bit out of his depth, in a terribly chaotic situation of fires and looting and destruction, who thought he was going to be a Mark Twain character—an armed Huckleberry Finn.”'
posted by Lyme Drop at 3:41 PM on July 3, 2022 [8 favorites]
Lyme Drop, thanks for the context. I know his name, but not really his work. But from the commenters, I got the sense that he must be known for that kind of stuff. Too bad.
posted by Artifice_Eternity at 4:10 PM on July 3, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by Artifice_Eternity at 4:10 PM on July 3, 2022 [3 favorites]
Thank you to Lyme Drop for saying what I am unable to articulate without being a complete asshole. And fuck Walter Kirn.
posted by ivanthenotsoterrible at 4:37 PM on July 3, 2022 [7 favorites]
posted by ivanthenotsoterrible at 4:37 PM on July 3, 2022 [7 favorites]
I didn't know anything about Kim, but I still thought the article was full of anti-woke dog-whistles.
posted by signal at 6:04 PM on July 3, 2022 [6 favorites]
posted by signal at 6:04 PM on July 3, 2022 [6 favorites]
The anti woke stuff seems par for course for Bari Weiss’ substack project
posted by bxvr at 8:11 PM on July 3, 2022 [6 favorites]
posted by bxvr at 8:11 PM on July 3, 2022 [6 favorites]
indeed, this is a pretty shitty collection of articles, for example the math teacher who is standing up against anti-racism training
posted by glonous keming at 8:46 PM on July 3, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by glonous keming at 8:46 PM on July 3, 2022 [1 favorite]
Fun is ideologically neutral, advancing and empowering no cause. Fun is self-serving and without ambition.I don’t buy it. Plenty of things are only fun for people based on an ideology - in fact the Top Gun example is perfect there. If you have an anti-military ideology you’re not likely to find it fun, no matter how much the seat shakes.
posted by JoeBlubaugh at 9:26 PM on July 3, 2022 [8 favorites]
Tina Fey sheet-cake vibes with this one. I'm not digging it.
posted by AlSweigart at 9:58 PM on July 3, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by AlSweigart at 9:58 PM on July 3, 2022 [3 favorites]
Did a quick scan of Kirn's Twitter link and he seems to be very upset by a commercial from a few years ago starring Celine Dion for a line of gender neutral clothing for kids. So upset that he basically calls it Nazi-level stuff. So hmmm. Between that and this piece being on fucking Bari Weiss' Substack and the comments on there... Not really that keen to read it, sorry
posted by bitteschoen at 10:37 PM on July 3, 2022 [5 favorites]
posted by bitteschoen at 10:37 PM on July 3, 2022 [5 favorites]
apprehension over the current crisis
Oh, you mean the global pandemic that's still in the process of killing millions? Or the Supreme Court run amok stripping away basic civil liberties? Or the nonstop mass shootings?
posted by TreeHugger at 12:42 AM on July 4, 2022 [4 favorites]
Oh, you mean the global pandemic that's still in the process of killing millions? Or the Supreme Court run amok stripping away basic civil liberties? Or the nonstop mass shootings?
posted by TreeHugger at 12:42 AM on July 4, 2022 [4 favorites]
I definitely question the opinion of anyone who uses "woke" the way a 2000s republican would use "libtard" or a 90s one "PC".
posted by JauntyFedora at 12:52 AM on July 4, 2022 [6 favorites]
posted by JauntyFedora at 12:52 AM on July 4, 2022 [6 favorites]
I dunno, I know a bunch of young queer people, even ones involved in human rights ngos that are as left as you can get and they all roll their eyes at the wokes
posted by thedaniel at 1:02 AM on July 4, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by thedaniel at 1:02 AM on July 4, 2022 [3 favorites]
Define wokes please, thedaniel.
posted by ambrosen at 3:17 AM on July 4, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by ambrosen at 3:17 AM on July 4, 2022 [1 favorite]
Sure thing! Peers on the same side of a fight spending lots of energy on policing language and making judgements about who and what is worth allying with on single issues - you know, everyone on the left for the last 100 years under any name you want to use. Alternate definition: Americans showing up and telling you you’re doing it wrong
posted by thedaniel at 3:29 AM on July 4, 2022 [10 favorites]
posted by thedaniel at 3:29 AM on July 4, 2022 [10 favorites]
Surely this time we got our scold word right so that it actually refers to a real problem and actual people and is not yet another piece of rhetorical culture war blather. Unlike PC police and owning the libs and cancel culture and other stuff like that. Truly, this time we got it right.
posted by Pyrogenesis at 4:22 AM on July 4, 2022 [11 favorites]
posted by Pyrogenesis at 4:22 AM on July 4, 2022 [11 favorites]
Love your sarcasm, but it’s not like there’s an academy regulating the use of scold words out there. All I’m saying is that “woke” has run the mass culture gauntlet past the point of an easy label like “scold word from the right”.
posted by thedaniel at 4:29 AM on July 4, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by thedaniel at 4:29 AM on July 4, 2022 [2 favorites]
Anyway I am participating in a derail here I reckon as the article is not particularly about this is it… I’ll step back
posted by thedaniel at 4:44 AM on July 4, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by thedaniel at 4:44 AM on July 4, 2022 [1 favorite]
You know....I could write another post about how the "everything is fine" is literally just "go out and die" to those of us who are immunocompromised because tiny precautions are ruining the "fun" for people, nevermind getting into how women, LGBTQ, people of color or all the rest of the disability community are feeling at the moment.
But seriously forget this. Fun? Try parsing how to let your kids play in a park safely so they can be kids but not pick up an infection that will kill their mom right now and do that for EVERYTHING you or they try to do. Life is SUPER fun. Really I should just relax and embrace this.
I am literally disgusted to see this on Metafilter. I'm done. It is a lack of basic decency and I can't participate in repeated conversations about how me remaining alive inconveniences people.
posted by scififan at 4:56 AM on July 4, 2022 [18 favorites]
But seriously forget this. Fun? Try parsing how to let your kids play in a park safely so they can be kids but not pick up an infection that will kill their mom right now and do that for EVERYTHING you or they try to do. Life is SUPER fun. Really I should just relax and embrace this.
I am literally disgusted to see this on Metafilter. I'm done. It is a lack of basic decency and I can't participate in repeated conversations about how me remaining alive inconveniences people.
posted by scififan at 4:56 AM on July 4, 2022 [18 favorites]
Immunocompromised metafilter represent! I too have an immune system that occasionally tries to kill me. However, I don't find this article quite as annoying; it's certainly not an article written by a deep thinker, but I don't think it actively calls for my death. it does display the standard American/rightwing tropes of ignorance of actions; "how can MY freedom be responsible for YOUR problems?!", which seems to be impossible for a lot of people to comprehend.
posted by The River Ivel at 5:19 AM on July 4, 2022 [7 favorites]
posted by The River Ivel at 5:19 AM on July 4, 2022 [7 favorites]
So much for the “ don’t yuck on someone else’s yum” of which we’ve been reminded on the Gray.
posted by Ideefixe at 5:31 AM on July 4, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by Ideefixe at 5:31 AM on July 4, 2022 [2 favorites]
Well, when the actual pull quote from TFA includes:
the agents of social programming insist on stirring nonstop apprehension over the current crisis and the next one, the better to keep you submissive and in suspense
It's basically mildly watered-down Q-Anon.
posted by signal at 5:59 AM on July 4, 2022 [6 favorites]
the agents of social programming insist on stirring nonstop apprehension over the current crisis and the next one, the better to keep you submissive and in suspense
It's basically mildly watered-down Q-Anon.
posted by signal at 5:59 AM on July 4, 2022 [6 favorites]
So much for the “ don’t yuck on someone else’s yum” of which we’ve been reminded on the Gray.
Heh. You would just love my analysis of that Mary Oliver poem about the world being broken but keeping your children ignorant of others’ pain.
But seriously, why are you harshing on the joy some of us get from intellectual take-downs of reactionary bs? It’s good fun!
posted by eviemath at 7:01 AM on July 4, 2022 [2 favorites]
Heh. You would just love my analysis of that Mary Oliver poem about the world being broken but keeping your children ignorant of others’ pain.
But seriously, why are you harshing on the joy some of us get from intellectual take-downs of reactionary bs? It’s good fun!
posted by eviemath at 7:01 AM on July 4, 2022 [2 favorites]
(Also, nothing against you personally Ideefixe. You just had the conveniently succinct pull quote.)
posted by eviemath at 7:03 AM on July 4, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by eviemath at 7:03 AM on July 4, 2022 [1 favorite]
The problem is the framing that any inconvenience is the destruction of "freedom" and "fun". It becomes a justification for the people to espouse it to be aggressive and even threatening to people they see taking precautions because even seeing precautions reminds them danger exists and we can't have that. Also it creates a culture where any organized precautions are eliminated. My doctors office is they only place with precautions left where I live.
A few months ago I was standing in my doctors office while an antimasker refused to put on a mask and was aggressive and threatening to my 5'5" 8 months pregnant self and it wasn't until I spoke up and tried to get him to mask up and back off to protect my baby that anyone there backed me up or even tried to enforce the rules. This encourages and justifies that behavior. So yes, it does put my life at risk due to potential infection and also makes the world around me incredibly stressful and unsafe.
I have multiple autoimmune conditions with no cure. This is forever for me and "ideas" like this are making a society I literally can't live in.
So yeah, spreading this, supporting this, is big and disgusting.
So I'm done. There isn't a space for me here obviously anymore than there is most places these days.
posted by scififan at 7:04 AM on July 4, 2022 [7 favorites]
A few months ago I was standing in my doctors office while an antimasker refused to put on a mask and was aggressive and threatening to my 5'5" 8 months pregnant self and it wasn't until I spoke up and tried to get him to mask up and back off to protect my baby that anyone there backed me up or even tried to enforce the rules. This encourages and justifies that behavior. So yes, it does put my life at risk due to potential infection and also makes the world around me incredibly stressful and unsafe.
I have multiple autoimmune conditions with no cure. This is forever for me and "ideas" like this are making a society I literally can't live in.
So yeah, spreading this, supporting this, is big and disgusting.
So I'm done. There isn't a space for me here obviously anymore than there is most places these days.
posted by scififan at 7:04 AM on July 4, 2022 [7 favorites]
Fun is ideologically neutral … self-serving …. It produces nothing for the collective and may represent a withdrawal from the collective….
From an essay titled “The Holy Anarchy of Fun” …
This guy really doesn’t understand anarchism.
posted by eviemath at 7:07 AM on July 4, 2022 [5 favorites]
From an essay titled “The Holy Anarchy of Fun” …
This guy really doesn’t understand anarchism.
posted by eviemath at 7:07 AM on July 4, 2022 [5 favorites]
If anyone would like to read about fun as a communal uprising (including sometimes an uprising against authority), Barbara Ehrenreich's book Dancing In The Streets: A History of Collective Joy may do the trick. Kirn may say, "Your fun belongs to you alone," to which Ehrenreich's book might respond, "But Western psychology was disabled from comprehending the phenomenon of collective ecstasy in a more philosophically profound way as well. Psychology, almost by definition, focuses on the individual self; its therapies are aimed at bolstering that self against the force of irrational or repressed emotion. But the self itself is a parochial concept."
In fact, I think it's harder to find examples of solitary fun, than collective fun. A joke needs at least two people, someone to tell it, someone to laugh. Kids who play with other kids have fun; kids who play by themselves invent other kids to have fun. Orwell--who remained oddly unquoted in Kirn's paragraph about fun being "elementally subversive"--said that every joke is a tiny revolution. A revolution is a relationship. Would the theater's water-spraying have been as entertaining if you couldn't look around and share the surprise of it with someone else? A loose hamster in a classroom where you're the only other inhabitant isn't fun, it's a chore of trying to catch him.
His philosopher buddy says, "A deficit of martial adventure, combined with a loss of transcendent purpose, means a need to willfully induce a feeling of being alive, to yank oneself from a numb slumber." There's nothing less fun than longing for martial adventure. Have you ever, in your life, heard someone with "transcendent purpose" say anything funny? But I suppose different people have different kinds of fun, and complaining about whatever that parachute game was back when we were kids, must be fun for someone. The collective joy of referring to the good old days of dangerous playground equipment, of broken arms and cracked teeth, a purer time, as long as you weren't the parent paying for the casts and crowns.
posted by mittens at 7:38 AM on July 4, 2022 [9 favorites]
In fact, I think it's harder to find examples of solitary fun, than collective fun. A joke needs at least two people, someone to tell it, someone to laugh. Kids who play with other kids have fun; kids who play by themselves invent other kids to have fun. Orwell--who remained oddly unquoted in Kirn's paragraph about fun being "elementally subversive"--said that every joke is a tiny revolution. A revolution is a relationship. Would the theater's water-spraying have been as entertaining if you couldn't look around and share the surprise of it with someone else? A loose hamster in a classroom where you're the only other inhabitant isn't fun, it's a chore of trying to catch him.
His philosopher buddy says, "A deficit of martial adventure, combined with a loss of transcendent purpose, means a need to willfully induce a feeling of being alive, to yank oneself from a numb slumber." There's nothing less fun than longing for martial adventure. Have you ever, in your life, heard someone with "transcendent purpose" say anything funny? But I suppose different people have different kinds of fun, and complaining about whatever that parachute game was back when we were kids, must be fun for someone. The collective joy of referring to the good old days of dangerous playground equipment, of broken arms and cracked teeth, a purer time, as long as you weren't the parent paying for the casts and crowns.
posted by mittens at 7:38 AM on July 4, 2022 [9 favorites]
"Agree to disagree" and "don't yuck on someone else's yum" is applied to pizza toppings and freestyle jazz, and not, you know, whether we should platform nazis. Just because politics involve opinions doesn't mean we can ignore that it has actual, real effects on people's lives. They are opinions with consequences.
This article isn't about fun. It's about pandemic politics immediately and also an attack on liberal criticism of, well, anything in general.
It spends it's first several paragraphs talking about the new Top Gun movie, basically begging liberals to point out that this movie is literally propaganda for the US military (just as the first one was), how the US military gives millions of dollars of support to Hollywood studios in exchange for script approval, and US foreign military intervention in general.
What killjoys those liberals are. What do you have against fun?
Then it criticizes liberal pandemic policies. Oh, if you Ctrl-F for "mask" you won't find anything anti-mask here. We're not one of those antivaxx QAnon conservatives flinging accusations of cancel culture and virtue signaling, it's just "We live in a rule-bound era of high vigilance. It’s a time of emergency measures and vast decrees, of curbs on expression, behavior, and even movement. They are portrayed as serving the common good and some people obey them in this spirit, others so they can be seen obeying them."
Fascists, fascist sympathizers, and anti-anti-fascists know how unpopular their views are, so they make it more abstract. It's not "I wish we had slavery again" but "tearing down statues is erasing history". It's not "I think racist jokes about black people are funny" but "you're against free speech." It's not "masks are uncomfortable and I want to go to the movies" but "I am going to anarchistically rebel against you by having fun."
Leftism is critical of hierarchies of power and how the powerful use their position at the top to keep many, many others low. Leftists in general favor democracy's "one person, one vote" to capitalism's "one dollar, one vote." So American leftists and liberals have A LOT to criticize about America.
But if you're privileged enough to be an unessential worker who is unaffected by pandemics, insufficient healthcare, the draft, and the legacy of racism and anti-LGBT bigotry, all of this stuff gets in the way of your fun. Especially if you're a billionaire and you need factories and businesses open to continue to make billions. If only we could stop these liberals from yucking on our yum just because our yum has caused hundreds of thousands of excess deaths.
This guy is writing political propaganda. This MeFi post is a politics post. It's not the kind that bluntly hits you with absurdities but rather feigns moderation so you'll seek a middle ground and ask, "well, what's the acceptable level of civil rights?" It's a "you call everything fascist" argument at a time when fascists are censoring books, taking away rights, making attempted coups, and arming right-wing vigilantes. He's doing this not so that you'll vote for the fascist, but so that you'll cast doubt on those not-so-fun people getting in their way.
You should remember what happens in the last panel of the original "This is fine" comic: the dog's face and skin melt off from the fire.
posted by AlSweigart at 8:00 AM on July 4, 2022 [37 favorites]
This article isn't about fun. It's about pandemic politics immediately and also an attack on liberal criticism of, well, anything in general.
It spends it's first several paragraphs talking about the new Top Gun movie, basically begging liberals to point out that this movie is literally propaganda for the US military (just as the first one was), how the US military gives millions of dollars of support to Hollywood studios in exchange for script approval, and US foreign military intervention in general.
What killjoys those liberals are. What do you have against fun?
Then it criticizes liberal pandemic policies. Oh, if you Ctrl-F for "mask" you won't find anything anti-mask here. We're not one of those antivaxx QAnon conservatives flinging accusations of cancel culture and virtue signaling, it's just "We live in a rule-bound era of high vigilance. It’s a time of emergency measures and vast decrees, of curbs on expression, behavior, and even movement. They are portrayed as serving the common good and some people obey them in this spirit, others so they can be seen obeying them."
Fascists, fascist sympathizers, and anti-anti-fascists know how unpopular their views are, so they make it more abstract. It's not "I wish we had slavery again" but "tearing down statues is erasing history". It's not "I think racist jokes about black people are funny" but "you're against free speech." It's not "masks are uncomfortable and I want to go to the movies" but "I am going to anarchistically rebel against you by having fun."
Leftism is critical of hierarchies of power and how the powerful use their position at the top to keep many, many others low. Leftists in general favor democracy's "one person, one vote" to capitalism's "one dollar, one vote." So American leftists and liberals have A LOT to criticize about America.
But if you're privileged enough to be an unessential worker who is unaffected by pandemics, insufficient healthcare, the draft, and the legacy of racism and anti-LGBT bigotry, all of this stuff gets in the way of your fun. Especially if you're a billionaire and you need factories and businesses open to continue to make billions. If only we could stop these liberals from yucking on our yum just because our yum has caused hundreds of thousands of excess deaths.
This guy is writing political propaganda. This MeFi post is a politics post. It's not the kind that bluntly hits you with absurdities but rather feigns moderation so you'll seek a middle ground and ask, "well, what's the acceptable level of civil rights?" It's a "you call everything fascist" argument at a time when fascists are censoring books, taking away rights, making attempted coups, and arming right-wing vigilantes. He's doing this not so that you'll vote for the fascist, but so that you'll cast doubt on those not-so-fun people getting in their way.
You should remember what happens in the last panel of the original "This is fine" comic: the dog's face and skin melt off from the fire.
posted by AlSweigart at 8:00 AM on July 4, 2022 [37 favorites]
Where are these bon vivants ever at when the "war" comes to library books and drag shows?
posted by Selena777 at 8:48 AM on July 4, 2022 [4 favorites]
posted by Selena777 at 8:48 AM on July 4, 2022 [4 favorites]
"Biden's Sex Police"
"Power and Politics with Mike Pompeo"
What is this website?
posted by pan at 9:55 AM on July 4, 2022 [3 favorites]
"Power and Politics with Mike Pompeo"
What is this website?
posted by pan at 9:55 AM on July 4, 2022 [3 favorites]
A Bari Weiss joint with an obituary section for 6 and 7 figure jobs.
posted by Selena777 at 10:24 AM on July 4, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by Selena777 at 10:24 AM on July 4, 2022 [3 favorites]
A relevant quote from Lee Atwater:
> "You start out in 1954 by saying, "N*****, n*****, n*****." By 1968 you can't say "n*****"—that hurts you. Backfires. So you say stuff like forced busing, states' rights and all that stuff. You're getting so abstract now [that] you're talking about cutting taxes, and all these things you're talking about are totally economic things and a byproduct of them is [that] blacks get hurt worse than whites. And subconsciously maybe that is part of it. I'm not saying that. But I'm saying that if it is getting that abstract, and that coded, that we are doing away with the racial problem one way or the other. You follow me—because obviously sitting around saying, "We want to cut this," is much more abstract than even the busing thing, and a hell of a lot more abstract than "N*****, n*****.""
All they have to do to get MetaFilter to platform their anti-mask, pandemic-is-fake content is find-and-replace some keywords, and suddenly it's not the same old tired talking points? They're not even subtle about it:
> "Have fun, get sick. Get others sick. Fun, the other communicable illness."
It's written in bad faith, so why are we putting it on the front page and sucking up people's time to discuss it?
posted by AlSweigart at 10:44 AM on July 4, 2022 [9 favorites]
> "You start out in 1954 by saying, "N*****, n*****, n*****." By 1968 you can't say "n*****"—that hurts you. Backfires. So you say stuff like forced busing, states' rights and all that stuff. You're getting so abstract now [that] you're talking about cutting taxes, and all these things you're talking about are totally economic things and a byproduct of them is [that] blacks get hurt worse than whites. And subconsciously maybe that is part of it. I'm not saying that. But I'm saying that if it is getting that abstract, and that coded, that we are doing away with the racial problem one way or the other. You follow me—because obviously sitting around saying, "We want to cut this," is much more abstract than even the busing thing, and a hell of a lot more abstract than "N*****, n*****.""
All they have to do to get MetaFilter to platform their anti-mask, pandemic-is-fake content is find-and-replace some keywords, and suddenly it's not the same old tired talking points? They're not even subtle about it:
> "Have fun, get sick. Get others sick. Fun, the other communicable illness."
It's written in bad faith, so why are we putting it on the front page and sucking up people's time to discuss it?
posted by AlSweigart at 10:44 AM on July 4, 2022 [9 favorites]
Misery is for losers, seriously.
Your enemies are having a great time, and so are the elite among your allies.
Whether they value or despise your fearful anxiety or joyless toil for the cause, on this gorgeous Fourth of July on the East Coast and West Coast, every last one of them is on the boat, at the country club, or at the beach, having a grand time.
posted by MattD at 10:47 AM on July 4, 2022 [3 favorites]
Your enemies are having a great time, and so are the elite among your allies.
Whether they value or despise your fearful anxiety or joyless toil for the cause, on this gorgeous Fourth of July on the East Coast and West Coast, every last one of them is on the boat, at the country club, or at the beach, having a grand time.
posted by MattD at 10:47 AM on July 4, 2022 [3 favorites]
Heh. You would just love my analysis of that Mary Oliver poem about the world being broken but keeping your children ignorant of others’ pain.
I suspect you mean that Maggie Smith poem and I wouldn't quite subscribe to that summary. Yeah, there is an element of keeping things from children for a while, but probably not forever, which is hardly possible - to me, it seems more about not leading with the bad stuff, to create hope and desire to improve things. Like, this place is a bit shit right now, sure, but imagine how beautiful one could make it! I like the poem; I don't read it as a ra-ra- endorsement of that sort of project - the hope-inspiring positive-spin - because using the image of "selling" the world to your kids like a "good realtor, chirping about good bones", to me, does also evoke the idea that it might all be a scam. But it's a scam I feel I can't really walk away from, as someone who works with kids. As hopeless as I often feel, I don't want to communicate that to them - it's not my place to dash their hopes, the world will do that for them soon enough. I guess, I rather over-correct in the other direction.
But seriously, why are you harshing on the joy some of us get from intellectual take-downs of reactionary bs? It’s good fun!
This, however, I can endorse anyway. My joy in something usually survives an intellectual take-down, and I can absolutely see the fun in a take-down.
posted by sohalt at 11:31 AM on July 4, 2022 [2 favorites]
I suspect you mean that Maggie Smith poem and I wouldn't quite subscribe to that summary. Yeah, there is an element of keeping things from children for a while, but probably not forever, which is hardly possible - to me, it seems more about not leading with the bad stuff, to create hope and desire to improve things. Like, this place is a bit shit right now, sure, but imagine how beautiful one could make it! I like the poem; I don't read it as a ra-ra- endorsement of that sort of project - the hope-inspiring positive-spin - because using the image of "selling" the world to your kids like a "good realtor, chirping about good bones", to me, does also evoke the idea that it might all be a scam. But it's a scam I feel I can't really walk away from, as someone who works with kids. As hopeless as I often feel, I don't want to communicate that to them - it's not my place to dash their hopes, the world will do that for them soon enough. I guess, I rather over-correct in the other direction.
But seriously, why are you harshing on the joy some of us get from intellectual take-downs of reactionary bs? It’s good fun!
This, however, I can endorse anyway. My joy in something usually survives an intellectual take-down, and I can absolutely see the fun in a take-down.
posted by sohalt at 11:31 AM on July 4, 2022 [2 favorites]
Your enemies are having a great time, and so are the elite among your allies.
Whether they value or despise your fearful anxiety or joyless toil for the cause, on this gorgeous Fourth of July on the East Coast and West Coast, every last one of them is on the boat, at the country club, or at the beach, having a grand time.
But somehow they still pay people to write those pathetic pleas for approval? If you don't need approal, you can just ignore the scolds; if your fun is self-centered, why try to share with someone else, convert others to your fun-loving ways - keep it yourself! Or is half the fun in rubbing it in other's face? Would it even be fun if nobody took issue? Ah, it's not such an independent affair..... Mostly likely being obnoxious is the point and even adds to their enjoyment.
So what? These people don't matter to me. Nothing they do or don't do is relevant for what I do or don't do. The world keeps burning whether I have fun or not. Me not having fun won't improve things, and me having fun won't improve things either. I'll have fun when I can, and won't force myself when I can't.
posted by sohalt at 12:10 PM on July 4, 2022 [3 favorites]
Whether they value or despise your fearful anxiety or joyless toil for the cause, on this gorgeous Fourth of July on the East Coast and West Coast, every last one of them is on the boat, at the country club, or at the beach, having a grand time.
But somehow they still pay people to write those pathetic pleas for approval? If you don't need approal, you can just ignore the scolds; if your fun is self-centered, why try to share with someone else, convert others to your fun-loving ways - keep it yourself! Or is half the fun in rubbing it in other's face? Would it even be fun if nobody took issue? Ah, it's not such an independent affair..... Mostly likely being obnoxious is the point and even adds to their enjoyment.
So what? These people don't matter to me. Nothing they do or don't do is relevant for what I do or don't do. The world keeps burning whether I have fun or not. Me not having fun won't improve things, and me having fun won't improve things either. I'll have fun when I can, and won't force myself when I can't.
posted by sohalt at 12:10 PM on July 4, 2022 [3 favorites]
Your enemies are having a great time,
I've seen their Twitter accounts. Elon Musk and Jordan Peterson are definitely not having a good time.
posted by AlSweigart at 1:25 PM on July 4, 2022 [4 favorites]
I've seen their Twitter accounts. Elon Musk and Jordan Peterson are definitely not having a good time.
posted by AlSweigart at 1:25 PM on July 4, 2022 [4 favorites]
Oh, yes, I did mean Maggie Smith. Apologies to Mary Oliver.
posted by eviemath at 3:40 PM on July 4, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by eviemath at 3:40 PM on July 4, 2022 [2 favorites]
'one thing id like to see more on twitter is posts that are "just for fun". like a guy who posts things just to have some laughs. i think its good to laugh sometimes' (@dril_gpt2)
posted by mittens at 4:30 PM on July 4, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by mittens at 4:30 PM on July 4, 2022 [2 favorites]
I want to say that while I agree with all the critiques of this article, it seems to me that there was so much coded information in it that it could escape people who aren’t familiar with the dog whistles. And yeah, some of the dog whistles weren’t very subtle to those who recognize them. But it seems to me that the FPP, for various reasons (does not live in the US), didn’t immediately recognize them and we should cut them some slack.
Totally cool to slag the article. It’s cool to argue it on the blue. It’s not cool to say it should never have been posted. I mean, I wish it hadn’t been, but I can see how it can happen and let’s be more generous toward our fellow mefites.
posted by sjswitzer at 6:50 PM on July 4, 2022 [10 favorites]
Totally cool to slag the article. It’s cool to argue it on the blue. It’s not cool to say it should never have been posted. I mean, I wish it hadn’t been, but I can see how it can happen and let’s be more generous toward our fellow mefites.
posted by sjswitzer at 6:50 PM on July 4, 2022 [10 favorites]
Oh, I don't fault someone for posting it because they didn't see through the dog whistles. I'm just surprised that, after it is clearly shown for what it is, it wasn't later taken down. It's moot at this point though, as it's already received most of the traffic it will receive.
posted by AlSweigart at 9:48 PM on July 4, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by AlSweigart at 9:48 PM on July 4, 2022 [1 favorite]
Mod note: very, very short answer is: In addition to much reduced moderation coverage on the site; post was not flagged until 20+ hours later, after many people had been participating in conversation. It's not unheard of for us to delete a day later, but usually it's because it's been flagged a lot (an obvious consensus), and this one has not been. At any rate, further discussion on this aspect should probably go to metatalk if we need to discuss more. If folks feel like the post needs to be deleted, please flag, so we can tell.
posted by taz (staff) at 11:41 PM on July 4, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by taz (staff) at 11:41 PM on July 4, 2022 [3 favorites]
A book I highly recommend (as I work on ways to make my activism "less Jerry Rubin and more Abbie Hoffman" as I like to put it) is "American Fun" -- (the section on Merry Mount and their rivalry with the Plymouth settlement alone is worth the price).
posted by Brachinus at 5:09 AM on July 5, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by Brachinus at 5:09 AM on July 5, 2022 [3 favorites]
I'm just surprised that, after it is clearly shown for what it is, it wasn't later taken down
Sometimes the degree to which some users here want MeFi to be a completely impermeable ideological bubble/monoculture creeps me out a little. "Clearly shown for what it is" is a very reductionist take.
I do see some dog whistles in this piece, and some problems with it. But I think it still has some useful points to make. Like this line:
the agents of social programming insist on stirring nonstop apprehension over the current crisis and the next one
I, a left-leaning person, actually find this resonant and helpful. I think there is a way of constructing politics and "news" on the left that has a puritanical, pious, perpetually grim/anxious/angry/depressed tone... to the point that people with this mindset are offended and combative about any presentations of politics or current events that do not have this dour emotional coloring.
There are certain lefty sources whose work I just can't engage with any more because it's so relentlessly bilious and/or doom-insistent. While all those negative emotions are certainly sometimes justified and understandable, I think living in them perpetually is not only unhelpful, but actually counterproductive to inciting constructive change.
One of the chronic errors of the left is to think that detailed factual and logical presentations, colored with extreme negative emotions like anxiety, panic, anger, etc., will be politically efficacious. Such ways of arguing may sometimes connect with some people. But they don't typically motivate the masses.
Most people need positive emotional motivation. Hope, beauty, humor, and, yes, fun, are essential to actually making the world a better place... and just making it livable on a daily basis.
posted by Artifice_Eternity at 2:34 PM on July 5, 2022 [3 favorites]
Sometimes the degree to which some users here want MeFi to be a completely impermeable ideological bubble/monoculture creeps me out a little. "Clearly shown for what it is" is a very reductionist take.
I do see some dog whistles in this piece, and some problems with it. But I think it still has some useful points to make. Like this line:
the agents of social programming insist on stirring nonstop apprehension over the current crisis and the next one
I, a left-leaning person, actually find this resonant and helpful. I think there is a way of constructing politics and "news" on the left that has a puritanical, pious, perpetually grim/anxious/angry/depressed tone... to the point that people with this mindset are offended and combative about any presentations of politics or current events that do not have this dour emotional coloring.
There are certain lefty sources whose work I just can't engage with any more because it's so relentlessly bilious and/or doom-insistent. While all those negative emotions are certainly sometimes justified and understandable, I think living in them perpetually is not only unhelpful, but actually counterproductive to inciting constructive change.
One of the chronic errors of the left is to think that detailed factual and logical presentations, colored with extreme negative emotions like anxiety, panic, anger, etc., will be politically efficacious. Such ways of arguing may sometimes connect with some people. But they don't typically motivate the masses.
Most people need positive emotional motivation. Hope, beauty, humor, and, yes, fun, are essential to actually making the world a better place... and just making it livable on a daily basis.
posted by Artifice_Eternity at 2:34 PM on July 5, 2022 [3 favorites]
I'm in complete agreement with Artifice_Eternity's comment.
I seem to be to the political left of a lot of metafilter (surprisingly, imo) and I still found this article pertinent and useful.
I am not interested in requiring every author of every post to pass a political purity test. Metafilter feels like it's been contracting for years because of this idea.
posted by small_ruminant at 5:48 PM on July 5, 2022 [3 favorites]
I seem to be to the political left of a lot of metafilter (surprisingly, imo) and I still found this article pertinent and useful.
I am not interested in requiring every author of every post to pass a political purity test. Metafilter feels like it's been contracting for years because of this idea.
posted by small_ruminant at 5:48 PM on July 5, 2022 [3 favorites]
>We live in a rule-bound era of high vigilance. It’s a time of emergency measures and vast decrees, of curbs on expression, behavior, and even movement. They are portrayed as serving the common good and some people obey them in this spirit, others so they can be seen obeying them."
you say masks. I say TSA, classist money laundering rules, border patrol excesses permitted "within 100 miles of a border or entry point," and a dozen other things.
posted by small_ruminant at 5:55 PM on July 5, 2022 [1 favorite]
you say masks. I say TSA, classist money laundering rules, border patrol excesses permitted "within 100 miles of a border or entry point," and a dozen other things.
posted by small_ruminant at 5:55 PM on July 5, 2022 [1 favorite]
So after all these comments I did go and read the thing. NB I did not flag it and do not necessarily thing it should be deleted, it’s just, as others have already remarked, so full of so-called "dog whistles" that it feels a bit like trolling. It’s not some kind of neutral pseudo-philosophical reflection on the nature of fun, it’s specifically referencing Covid and the government measures taken to contain it as some kind of intolerable restriction, with the implication they should be rebelled against. I’m not in the US but this kind of attitude is shared universally by the anti-vaxx/anti-mask/anti-Covid-measures voices which typically here happen to be on the far right. That and the references to "woke drones" who dare to criticize a movie, from someone who, as I noticed above, appears so awfully offended by the existence of a gender neutral line of clothing for kids... I mean, that is also typical far-right bullshit. And the closing invitation to go and "Have fun, get sick. Get others sick. Fun, the other communicable illness" is at best a very crass unsavory comparison in light of the fact the virus is still spreading even as things reopen and restrictions are lifted.
(Ironically I came back to this thread after reading this morning on an Italian newspaper about doctors calling for the cancellation of the planned concert by Maneskin in Rome, with 70 thousand people expected to attend, just as there’s a spike in contagion locally and similar events have already been a factor in driving infections higher. One doctor is quoted as saying something that roughly translates as "enough with this rhetoric about having fun together, it’s no fun if it turns into a mega cluster". These doctors, such boring scolds...)
posted by bitteschoen at 2:35 AM on July 6, 2022 [10 favorites]
(Ironically I came back to this thread after reading this morning on an Italian newspaper about doctors calling for the cancellation of the planned concert by Maneskin in Rome, with 70 thousand people expected to attend, just as there’s a spike in contagion locally and similar events have already been a factor in driving infections higher. One doctor is quoted as saying something that roughly translates as "enough with this rhetoric about having fun together, it’s no fun if it turns into a mega cluster". These doctors, such boring scolds...)
posted by bitteschoen at 2:35 AM on July 6, 2022 [10 favorites]
I guarantee you that trying to evade the grasping hands of a classroom full of small children was not “fun for the hamster too,” and the fact that Kirn images or hopes that it was is a good illustration of the lack of perspective taking ability and empathy that likely led him to write such an article about the US’ current extremely anemic pandemic response in the first place.
posted by eviemath at 4:26 AM on July 6, 2022 [5 favorites]
posted by eviemath at 4:26 AM on July 6, 2022 [5 favorites]
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But regardless, we can all use a little fun with our bad news. 's why, when I was the most depressed and couldnt handle the newspaper, I got my news from metafilter. Because it's news posts and also posts about new album releases or whatever.
posted by subdee at 12:46 PM on July 3, 2022 [3 favorites]