A Couple Things are Gonna Happen
July 23, 2022 6:58 PM   Subscribe

We've discussed actual play before (February, 2021, 2017, and 2016) and some history of D&D, AD&D, and how they begat Pathfinder (recent discussion) and various other table-top role-playing systems, stories, and games. Let's revisit given new options and more variety available: Meet Pathfinder, The Glass Cannon Network, and the many options beyond D&D. Now that Glass Cannon's flagship show has wrapped, start at episode 1 and... don't leave town.

The wargaming origin of TTRPGs isn't for everyone (myself included) but focusing on the storytelling, opportunity for improvisation and rich characters and then giving it space to be welcoming, inclusive, therapeutic, and above all, entertaining has developed into the current world of Actual Play Table Top RPGs (TTRPGs).

Between The Glass Cannon, and a (finally) well-done video game based on the ruelset and world, Pathfinder offers a "crunchier" version of fantasy gameplay where the rules are a bit more specific but invite significant strategy in both social and martial settings. Online tools help, [easytool, pathbuilder]. It also started by ejecting a lot of D&Ds problematic history (and publisher Paizo even managed to behave decently in a publishing landscape known for, well, not).

Find below my arbitrary description of several actual play TTRPG podcast/video podcasts - I know I missed your favorite, so please share it! Look for [getting started links] for quick samples - some were covered previously, but who doesn't love a compendium?

The Pathfinder-based Glass Cannon Podcast [Episode 1 podcast and youtube] became a lot of things, the Glass Cannon Network, a place to hole up during the pandemic, a top Patreon dollar-getter, and founded a popular format with "New Game Who Dis" [Youtube Playlist] showcasing a variety of classic and little-known TTRPGs from character creation to full-story playthroughs: The Side Quest Inn has endearingly rough edges, often played for comedic gold, and does a great job of integrating a rules-heavier style with how that informs and tells a certain kind of story. It's the only game I've ever heard where characters who must meditate or pray for spells or abilities regularly incorporate that step into the story, often in ways that deepen the character or set up comic pay-offs. Dimension 20's various shows are infinitely more polished, but don't let that fool you. There's a deep vulnerability and feminist core to these stories and uncanny rapport among the improvisers (College Humor ex-pats many, Game Changer features many familiar faces). The lady-lead Dames and Dragons self-describes as younger-listener friendly and invests heavily in long-term character development and world-building.

Well-known examples include the now-famous Adventure Zone, Critical Role, Not Another DnD Podcast (featuring several Dimension 20 alums), Dungeons and Daddies, and early entrant Brian Posehn's metal-head romp Nerd Poker.

Bonus:

We've also somewhat entered the era of the Celebrity GM: Luminaries like Aabria Iyengar, Brennan Lee Mulligan [youtube compilation], and Matt Mercer [youtube character compilation] have built careers balancing rules, story, and improvisation with commitment to craft and not insignificant media savvy.
posted by abulafa (21 comments total) 26 users marked this as a favorite
 
I don't know how any of this is interrelated, but I see no mention of G.U.R.P.S., the most flexible role playing system ever, and also nothing about Toon! which is the most fun I've ever had doing TTRPS.
posted by hippybear at 7:04 PM on July 23, 2022 [4 favorites]


Fair warning: the guys get into some crude sexual humor in the first 30 episodes or so of the Glass Cannon Podcast. Most of it is pretty innocuous, but there are a few jokes that are a bit beyond the pale before they realize what kind of show they’re going to be.

That said, I love the flagship show and am thinking about how long to wait before dropping through a relisten. It’s a really detailed, vibrant story.
posted by Night_owl at 7:22 PM on July 23, 2022 [2 favorites]


The wargaming origin of TTRPGs isn't for everyone (myself included) but focusing on the storytelling

I've mentioned some of this on MeFi before, but I have further good news about "story game" precursors to TTRPGs: Early Collaborative Games of Fantasy and Imagination. The games there are both earlier than the Brontës' role-playing and also later--there's one American improvisational storytelling game as recent as 1882--though I haven't found a direct connection to anyone involved in Braunstein/Chainmail/D&D/etc. They do make a minor point that written rules for story games and role-play are older than the 1812 prototype for Kriegsspiel and were reprinted many, many times in at least four languages throughout the 1800s.

Also, thanks very much for the round-up of things to watch or listen to. I'd started Fantasy High based on which_chick's comment and Dragon Friends based on Lentrohamsanin's comment, and I'm glad to know of more.
posted by Wobbuffet at 7:25 PM on July 23, 2022 [3 favorites]


Toon! was fucking amazing.
posted by aramaic at 7:38 PM on July 23, 2022 [3 favorites]


I have issues with the way the Glass Cannon guys choose to present themselves. Like I do get that they are by and large on the "right" side of things, but I feel like they are very much trying to have their cake and eat it by saying that it isn't a political stance. It's fine to say that it shouldn't be a political thing, but the fact of that matter is that as things stand it is and to claim otherwise is disingenuous.
posted by juv3nal at 7:56 PM on July 23, 2022


So I'm not just shitting on the thread, I'll ditto the Dimension 20 stuff, and add The Oxventure D&D and Blades in the Dark shows as well as The Calyx (Call of Cthulhu) over on Becca Scott's channel. Legends of the Multiverse on the official D&D channel is decent too. It features an interesting format that has them swapping in/out guest characters every other episode or so with a core few that stick around.
posted by juv3nal at 8:06 PM on July 23, 2022 [3 favorites]


Brennan Lee Mulligan is my DM idol. We were similar ages when we started running D&D, but I had a fifteen year head start on him. I've learned so much about the craft from watching him (and to varying extents a variety of other live play DMs) in just the past couple years. The resources available now to help teach good fun role playing practices are extraordinary. I'm delighted to see the hobby grow in this way.
posted by meinvt at 8:47 PM on July 23, 2022


Traveller vs.Gamma World : BootHill
posted by clavdivs at 8:50 PM on July 23, 2022 [1 favorite]


Awesome post! Long time Glass Cannon fan and Patreon supporter. Have a friend who games with them occasionally. I've got a t-shirt with the original Trunau Four on it. And I honor early episodes Matthew at my gaming tables by never reading all of a rule or spell before trying to use it. ("Read the last sentence, Matthew!")

So I will contribute to this thread by . . . recommending completely different actual plays.

Twelve Sided Stories is awesome. They do shorter arcs of different games so a little less intimidating to pick up. There recent Night's Black Agents run (basically "Jason Bourne level spies vs. Draculas") is pretty solid.

The Magpies are an all women Blades in the Dark run I picked up after someone recommended in AskMe. (They've moved on to a sequel series, but I'm way behind.)
posted by mark k at 11:46 PM on July 23, 2022


Fantastic post, but woefully incomplete without Rude Tales of Magic -- a comedy liveplay based (very loosely) on 5th ed. D&D., DM'd by Branson Reese (cartoonist and creator of Swan Boy) and featuring Christopher Hastings (creator of Dr. McNinja and writer of The Unbelievable Gwenpool among other marvel comics) and several other very experienced improv pals. Absolutely hilarious, I was completely sold by episode 3 and basically every episode has been as good as or better than the previous one. "Married to the Sea", a one-off live episode, is a good sample episode as it's non-canon, doesn't rely on established plot, and was recorded after the cast had fully settled into their characters. If you like that, I recommend starting at the series beginning.

The same crew also does the Star Trek pastiche liveplay Oh These, Those Stars of Space!, based on the one-page rpg "Lasers & Feelings", and GM'd by Rude Tales cast member Joe Lepore -- this series is run in a more episodic way, in the model of Star Trek: TNG, so it doesn't matter which episode you start with or what order you listen to them in, and which cast members are playing and what characters they're playing change from episode to episode. A much looser but equally fun show.
posted by rifflesby at 12:03 AM on July 24, 2022 [1 favorite]


I think the best thing to come out of actual play is seeing amazing GMs at work. The best actual play GM are doing a performance, and you cannot and should not expect your play to look like an actual play show, but you can take inspiration from how Brennan does intros to ensure everyone's going into the game engaged with a need (instead of 'you meet up at a tavern'), or how Aabria plans for how characters might respond to a situation (instead of having most of the party go off and do something fun, and one player's left behind doing nothing because they're role-playing their character). I am a way better GM for watching these shows and seeing how they tackle things I'm not great at when at my own table.

coincidentally written by Brennan's mom

not a coincidence at all; Brennan ran Starstruck because Dimension 20's format meant that straight sci-fi is hard to do, because you need to do a lot of worldbuilding up front to make the world feel interestingly lived-in while also giving the performers the room to play their characters, and they don't have that kind of time (hence why their shows are typically fantasy crosses with familiar tropes). Starstruck was a well-developed, diverse comedy sci-fi property with creators who would be willing to trust Brennan with it enough that Dropout could afford it on their minimal budget, thanks to that family connection.
posted by Merus at 2:39 AM on July 24, 2022


I'll add that Brennan and Aabria in combination are a delight, and in combination with ThatBronzeGirl even more so. You can see all three together in Battle for Beyond (which I understand is maybe supposed to get a sequel this year) and Brennan & Aabria in a couple of one shots for Roll 20: 1 & 2 (Brennan plays the same character but the others swap up).
posted by juv3nal at 3:00 AM on July 24, 2022


Oh yay an opportunity to tell more people about my favourite actual play podcast Pretending To Be People.


It is loosely based on a combination of Delta Green and Pulp Cthulu. (For people who are reading this thread unaware of role playing games besides Dungeons and Dragons: Delta Green is like an X-Files style game world and Pulp Cthulu is like Lovecraftian horror style).

These guys are so much fun and as a podcast it is extremely enjoyable because they focus more on the role playing/storytelling and less on the game mechanics. (I can't stand listening to actual play podcasts where they spend minutes at a time talking about every dice roll). The GM runs a "closed game" which means that sometimes the players have secrets from each other or have different pieces of information.

They've just started releasing episodes for Season 02 and already fans of the show are loving it.

In addition to two main seasons, there are several mini campaigns and one-shots and lots of bonus campaigns for Patreon subscribers.

There is a lovely and inclusive community that follows this group with a subreddit of 1.5k subscribers, a discord, twitter etc.

Pretending to be People is endorsed by RPG Designer/Author Scott Dorward, Androids and Aliens (TGC) cast member Ellinor DiLorenzo and RPG cool-guy David Winters.

Finally, one of my favourite parts of this podcast is the brilliant soundtrack featuring background music composed by one of the cast and epic theme songs all from the hometown of the crew.
posted by McNulty at 3:07 AM on July 24, 2022


Like I do get that they are by and large on the "right" side of things, but I feel like they are very much trying to have their cake and eat it by saying that it isn't a political stance.
My original version of this post focused more on the progress from grognard, gatekeeping, often politically regressive wargaming purists to where we are today using actual play as a lens. Glass Cannon itself feels like a solid example of people who operated from some comfortable privilege and ignorance figuring out that holding to their values isn't just the right thing to do but plays better. I hadn't watched that statement before - but I did listen when they talked about losing listeners due to vaccination requirements for their shows, and that's when I upped my Patreon contributions and wrote them an impassioned thank you.

I'll suggest that the having-your-cake does come very much directly from Troy. I know parasocial relationships are rife with misattribution, but that guy... wildly talented in many ways but so insistent on maintaining impenetrable narcissistic defenses he doesn't realize he's best when his characters and work are telling the story and letting the funny emerge, not when he still tries to pretend he's the edgy rules-don't-apply insult comic he grew up wanting to be. And that asshole is talented and funny, too. Just not as good as the other guy who isn't trying to be someone invincible.

That insult comic is the one afraid of politics. I'm still not sure why - but part of what's therapeutic about Glass Cannon for me in particular is the glimpse of humanity in the hosts. Honestly and kindly (but not meekly) suggesting how mental health and addiction and other realities impact their lives is also a political stance for white-guy privileged folks. (Grant has since come out as bi so even his straight white guys description needs to evolve.)

So - I see your point but read it from the perspective of those other D&D dudes who need the moral support just to do the minimum of self reflection because they have no other support in those smelly regressive gaming stores playing stereotypes for cheap laughs. (Aka my friends growing up.)
posted by abulafa at 3:33 AM on July 24, 2022 [1 favorite]


They're a group of white gaming dudes with a >$1M/year Patreon in (at the time) hardcore, tactical TTRPG that called out a segment of their own fans for being gatekeeping jerks and told them they didn't want the gatekeepers' money, that gaming was for everyone. I think it's okay to feel good about that.

For anyone intrigued but not interested in tactical/murder-hobo-based gaming, the story of the pandemic for Glass Cannon was them apparently discovering that their disdain for "squishy" D&D5e was just that it didn't go far enough, and falling in love with a bunch of narrative-driven systems like Blades in the Dark, Delta Green, and Call of Cthulhu. The current (4th) season of Delta Green is one of the best things they've done, I think, and jumping in there probably only requires the knowledge that Troy has been playing the same ridiculous character since season 1.
posted by range at 6:11 AM on July 24, 2022 [2 favorites]


I just ran a week of D&D programming at a UU summer convention (the players had a fun mix of violent and non-combat-oriented solutions). But what warmed my heart the most was walking across the quad wearing my D&D t-shirt, I was stopped by an older woman (older than me, and I'm 50 myself) who said "Oh, I used to play that back in the late 70s. We were all young moms, and it was a lot of fun."

It was never just basement-dwelling white guys and grognards. That's what they wanted us to think, but it was always a pastime for everyone.
posted by rikschell at 6:30 AM on July 24, 2022 [4 favorites]


It was never just basement-dwelling white guys and grognards. That's what they wanted us to think, but it was always a pastime for everyone.

Like, D&D's claim to fame was that it was the wargame with a significant female audience. That's why it got big, and why it's considered the start of something new rather than being a kind of wargame.

There's a lot of these in nerd culture - Star Trek, PC gaming, computer programming, science-fiction in general - where there's significant historical revisionism erasing a huge amount of women involved with it.
posted by Merus at 9:59 AM on July 24, 2022 [2 favorites]


Just returned from the annual guys week with some old college friends where much board and RPG gaming happens. Usually we play ADnD in the same campaign world we've been running since the mid eighties, and a bit of 5e. This year a few of the regulars couldn't make it so I ran a 5e one shot, one of the guys ran a Call of Cthulhu session, and we tried out Pathfinder for the first time. Really enjoyed the latter two and am looking forward to more.

The ADnD DM is a Glass Cannon fan, and I've enjoyed CR and Dimension 20 quite a bit. I particularly love the positive and inclusive culture that has been emphasized by many of the actual play creators. It does my heart good, and really feels like a golden age for RPGs.

The Escape From the Bloodkeep mini campaign is one of my favorites from D20. A great example of how to run an evil campaign, or just any campaign really. I'd also recommend the Game Masters of Exandria episode on CR for a fascinating discussion between Brennan, Matt, and Aabria. While the discussion revolves around games they ran on the CR channel, there's plenty of great insight and discussion around GMing that doesn't require having watched those streams.
posted by calamari kid at 10:18 AM on July 24, 2022


Like, D&D's claim to fame was that it was the wargame with a significant female audience. That's why it got big, and why it's considered the start of something new rather than being a kind of wargame.

There's a lot of these in nerd culture - Star Trek, PC gaming, computer programming, science-fiction in general - where there's significant historical revisionism erasing a huge amount of women involved with it.

What time period do you mean?

Here's my memory: I was playing D&D in the early '80s and it was a very stereotypical male hobby. I have a current friend, my age, who bought all the books but struggled to find groups where she was treated with an iota of respect so basically didn't play with other people until well into the 90s. Lots of women seem to have had this experience (though obviously RPGs were not unique here). TSR took over five years to hire a woman and her tenure seems like it was pretty crappy.

I mean, obviously there were women players in this period and in the mid-80s you got the Margaret Weiss and the Dragonlance books, but I'm coming up blank on women players or contributors being what made it famous. Am I missing big stuff? Or are you just talking later in the evolution of the game?
posted by mark k at 5:00 PM on July 24, 2022


I'm actually talking earlier - we've got evidence of female player groups in the 70s writing into Dragon, and there were design changes driven by feedback from female players. I think TSR has been quoted that about 20-30% of their customer base were women at the time.

This doesn't mean that there wasn't a lot of sexism going on, nor that female players were welcome at any table - I imagine there were a lot of all-female groups. The thing is: wargames attracted a tiny amount of female players; even today, I think Warhammer 40K has like a 97% male playerbase. Compared to the rest of the games in what was its category, its audience stood out in that women were interested in playing it at all, even if they weren't always able to follow through on that desire.
posted by Merus at 9:26 AM on July 25, 2022


Merus that's new and fascinating information to me - my experience was similar to mark k's - while I knew of D&D groups that were not all-dude, they usually stemmed from theater (high school, summer program, etc) and didn't last especially long as those players often had lots of other things going on and drifted apart. Later those same folks would resurface with Vampire: The Masquerade groups that followed a similar arc. Again, just my experience in the 80s-90s.

This does make me think that maybe the reason the all-dude wargame-enthusiast variety persisted in part because they weren't exploring other social avenues. I can definitely say that them being the only option is why I left in-person RPGs behind for so long.
posted by abulafa at 9:36 AM on July 25, 2022


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