Next-level commute: US citizens move to Mexico, still work in the US.
July 25, 2022 9:41 AM Subscribe
NYTimes article on San Diego citizens that are priced out of the local housing market and so rent or buy in Tijuana but still commute back to San Diego for work.
Of course, Mexican citizens have done this for decades, traveling north every morning for better-paying jobs on US soil and then returning home at night. But with San Diego's housing prices in the stratosphere, some US citizens are deciding to do the same. From the linked article about rents in San Diego, "In June, the rent for a one-bedroom home - $2901 [...] was 19 percent higher than a year ago. Two-bedroom apartments were averaging $3,772."
Also from the article: "In San Diego, the median sales price of a single-family home hit $1 million in April, although by June, it had cooled slightly to $987,225. A February report [...] declared the city the least affordable metro area in the United States, bypassing San Francisco ..."
Other posts on the Blue about hyper-commutes: LV to SF by plane, 3.5 hour bike commute each way, 15-year-old New Yorker article on commuting.
Of course, Mexican citizens have done this for decades, traveling north every morning for better-paying jobs on US soil and then returning home at night. But with San Diego's housing prices in the stratosphere, some US citizens are deciding to do the same. From the linked article about rents in San Diego, "In June, the rent for a one-bedroom home - $2901 [...] was 19 percent higher than a year ago. Two-bedroom apartments were averaging $3,772."
Also from the article: "In San Diego, the median sales price of a single-family home hit $1 million in April, although by June, it had cooled slightly to $987,225. A February report [...] declared the city the least affordable metro area in the United States, bypassing San Francisco ..."
Other posts on the Blue about hyper-commutes: LV to SF by plane, 3.5 hour bike commute each way, 15-year-old New Yorker article on commuting.
(I kid! Many people live happily in San Diego. But it is not for me.)
posted by Going To Maine at 9:46 AM on July 25, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by Going To Maine at 9:46 AM on July 25, 2022 [2 favorites]
“She speaks Spanish but often socializes with other American friends, all of them expats migrant workers like herself”
posted by jedicus at 9:56 AM on July 25, 2022 [50 favorites]
posted by jedicus at 9:56 AM on July 25, 2022 [50 favorites]
Must be tough to adjust from sepia to full color every morning.
posted by condour75 at 10:03 AM on July 25, 2022 [57 favorites]
posted by condour75 at 10:03 AM on July 25, 2022 [57 favorites]
My sister does something like this: she works in Geneva, but lives just over the border into France, where the cost of living is something like 60% lower because of some complicated stuff I'll handwave away as "history and bureaucracy, plus shit's just generally fucked." Switzerland is notably not part of the EU, which means every morning she drives through a customs checkpoint to get to work. Hers is not an uncommon situation, but it is one fraught with many perils. The tax/healthcare situation is kind of interesting, for example, and when the pandemic happened some folks jumped on the opportunity to start playing political football with French workers who were exempt from paying some EU taxes because they were physically working in offices in Switzerland, but then suddenly remote work became the norm and there were hastily-drawn-up regulatory changes that sunsetted in January this year, and it's generally kind of a contentious situation all around right now.
You want to know what we DIDN'T see? Ignazio Cassis making public statements about how France is only sending rapists and murders across the border. There was also a distinct absence of Macron taking potshots at Switzerland on Twitter. Nope, there were just a bunch of bureaucrats, working mostly in concert on both sides of the border, passing laws to deal with a hiccup in an otherwise-mostly-functional system. There's an international border involved, but there's also an understanding that it's an imaginary line drawn on a map, and we're all goddamn grownups here, so we'll figure it out via policy.
Something tells me we will not be so lucky in the US.
posted by Mayor West at 10:07 AM on July 25, 2022 [29 favorites]
You want to know what we DIDN'T see? Ignazio Cassis making public statements about how France is only sending rapists and murders across the border. There was also a distinct absence of Macron taking potshots at Switzerland on Twitter. Nope, there were just a bunch of bureaucrats, working mostly in concert on both sides of the border, passing laws to deal with a hiccup in an otherwise-mostly-functional system. There's an international border involved, but there's also an understanding that it's an imaginary line drawn on a map, and we're all goddamn grownups here, so we'll figure it out via policy.
Something tells me we will not be so lucky in the US.
posted by Mayor West at 10:07 AM on July 25, 2022 [29 favorites]
Oh, you mean they’re migrant workers?
posted by Bottlecap at 10:08 AM on July 25, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by Bottlecap at 10:08 AM on July 25, 2022 [3 favorites]
More like migrant sleepers.
posted by Bee'sWing at 10:16 AM on July 25, 2022 [15 favorites]
posted by Bee'sWing at 10:16 AM on July 25, 2022 [15 favorites]
We can all at least agree on “migrants”
posted by Going To Maine at 10:19 AM on July 25, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by Going To Maine at 10:19 AM on July 25, 2022 [2 favorites]
So where are the people who work in Tijuana being forced to move to?
posted by clawsoon at 10:37 AM on July 25, 2022 [33 favorites]
posted by clawsoon at 10:37 AM on July 25, 2022 [33 favorites]
all of them expats migrant workers like herself
So does the New York Times Style Guide for migrant workers have, "if American, refer to as 'expat'," or, "if White, refer to as 'expat'"?
posted by clawsoon at 10:39 AM on July 25, 2022 [14 favorites]
So does the New York Times Style Guide for migrant workers have, "if American, refer to as 'expat'," or, "if White, refer to as 'expat'"?
posted by clawsoon at 10:39 AM on July 25, 2022 [14 favorites]
> all of them expats migrant workers like herself
That reminds me of people that ride bicycles in fancy bicycle rider gear to let everyone know that they can afford car, too.
posted by NoThisIsPatrick at 10:42 AM on July 25, 2022 [5 favorites]
That reminds me of people that ride bicycles in fancy bicycle rider gear to let everyone know that they can afford car, too.
posted by NoThisIsPatrick at 10:42 AM on July 25, 2022 [5 favorites]
Metropolitan areas have a natural growth cycle. California actually has a long way to catch up with the growth that has occurred along the Northeast coast of the US over the last 200 years.
It is interesting when this expansion occurs near a national boarder. I can't read the article because I don't have a log-in, but natural commercial growth will see not just increases in housing, but but also in industry and other commercial enterprises. Mexico would be smart to prepare for and encourage economic growth on their side of the boarder.
posted by eye of newt at 10:54 AM on July 25, 2022 [1 favorite]
It is interesting when this expansion occurs near a national boarder. I can't read the article because I don't have a log-in, but natural commercial growth will see not just increases in housing, but but also in industry and other commercial enterprises. Mexico would be smart to prepare for and encourage economic growth on their side of the boarder.
posted by eye of newt at 10:54 AM on July 25, 2022 [1 favorite]
s/boarder/border
posted by eye of newt at 11:13 AM on July 25, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by eye of newt at 11:13 AM on July 25, 2022 [1 favorite]
Metropolitan areas have a natural growth cycle. California actually has a long way to catch up with the growth that has occurred along the Northeast coast of the US over the last 200 years
Can you expand on that? What's the growth cycle? What catching up does SoCal have to do?
posted by LionIndex at 11:27 AM on July 25, 2022 [1 favorite]
Can you expand on that? What's the growth cycle? What catching up does SoCal have to do?
posted by LionIndex at 11:27 AM on July 25, 2022 [1 favorite]
The Northeast is the most densely populated area of the country, but I think they have water for those people. Like Los Angeles, San Diego has to import most of its water from out of the local area. Something like 80% of their water comes from the Colorado River and from Northern California. I'm not sure where all of the water for San Diego's "natural growth cycle" is supposed to come from.
posted by ActingTheGoat at 12:02 PM on July 25, 2022 [13 favorites]
posted by ActingTheGoat at 12:02 PM on July 25, 2022 [13 favorites]
$4000+ a month income to get a residence permit? That rules me out.
posted by liminal_shadows at 12:02 PM on July 25, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by liminal_shadows at 12:02 PM on July 25, 2022 [3 favorites]
My friend who is originally from Peru always makes the observation that white Americans living in other countries are usually called "expats" and not "immigrants."
posted by SoberHighland at 12:14 PM on July 25, 2022 [7 favorites]
posted by SoberHighland at 12:14 PM on July 25, 2022 [7 favorites]
This is both a damning indictment of American housing policy and a horror story about gentrification.
posted by rhymedirective at 12:14 PM on July 25, 2022 [11 favorites]
posted by rhymedirective at 12:14 PM on July 25, 2022 [11 favorites]
I'm not sure where all of the water for San Diego's "natural growth cycle" is supposed to come from.
SoCal already has ~23mil people in it, I'm not sure there needs to be more. Throw in TJ and that's another 2mil. I honestly assumed the growth cycle comment was referring to some kind of economic thing, like gradually shifting from agrarian to industrial.
My friend who is originally from Peru always makes the observation that white Americans living in other countries are usually called "expats" and not "immigrants."
They're generally not giving up their US citizenship and aren't really "immigrating" to whatever country they're in, so the distinction generally has some meaning. That might change with the current climate in the US though.
posted by LionIndex at 12:21 PM on July 25, 2022 [2 favorites]
SoCal already has ~23mil people in it, I'm not sure there needs to be more. Throw in TJ and that's another 2mil. I honestly assumed the growth cycle comment was referring to some kind of economic thing, like gradually shifting from agrarian to industrial.
My friend who is originally from Peru always makes the observation that white Americans living in other countries are usually called "expats" and not "immigrants."
They're generally not giving up their US citizenship and aren't really "immigrating" to whatever country they're in, so the distinction generally has some meaning. That might change with the current climate in the US though.
posted by LionIndex at 12:21 PM on July 25, 2022 [2 favorites]
LionIndex: "They're generally not giving up their US citizenship and aren't really "immigrating" to whatever country they're in, so the distinction generally has some meaning. That might change with the current climate in the US though."
Most people called 'immigrants' by the press haven't given up their citizenship either.
The difference between immigrant and expat is mostly a racial one.
posted by signal at 12:37 PM on July 25, 2022 [33 favorites]
Most people called 'immigrants' by the press haven't given up their citizenship either.
The difference between immigrant and expat is mostly a racial one.
posted by signal at 12:37 PM on July 25, 2022 [33 favorites]
all of them expats migrant workers like herself
So does the New York Times Style Guide for migrant workers have, "if American, refer to as 'expat'," or, "if White, refer to as 'expat'"?
This has been mentioned already, but that's not what "migrant" means. Here in California we have migrant workers who follow crops/work, many of whom go home to their families over winter. That is not the same thing as a daily boarder crossing commute, not is it the same thing as leaving another country in order to find permanent housing and citizenship in a new one.
Migrant workers in California are vital for the economy, and have been working to secure protections and guarantees from the agricultural businesses that employ them, such as shade, water, breaks, proper equipment, safe living conditions, access to health care, &c.
posted by oneirodynia at 12:42 PM on July 25, 2022 [3 favorites]
So does the New York Times Style Guide for migrant workers have, "if American, refer to as 'expat'," or, "if White, refer to as 'expat'"?
This has been mentioned already, but that's not what "migrant" means. Here in California we have migrant workers who follow crops/work, many of whom go home to their families over winter. That is not the same thing as a daily boarder crossing commute, not is it the same thing as leaving another country in order to find permanent housing and citizenship in a new one.
Migrant workers in California are vital for the economy, and have been working to secure protections and guarantees from the agricultural businesses that employ them, such as shade, water, breaks, proper equipment, safe living conditions, access to health care, &c.
posted by oneirodynia at 12:42 PM on July 25, 2022 [3 favorites]
This is fine.
posted by tommasz at 1:06 PM on July 25, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by tommasz at 1:06 PM on July 25, 2022 [1 favorite]
In June, the rent for a one-bedroom home - $2901
Is this for real? This is more than I pay in the Bay Area, and so many people were talking about relocating to San Diego to save money. Oops.
posted by pwnguin at 1:09 PM on July 25, 2022 [1 favorite]
Is this for real? This is more than I pay in the Bay Area, and so many people were talking about relocating to San Diego to save money. Oops.
posted by pwnguin at 1:09 PM on July 25, 2022 [1 favorite]
I'm not sure where all of the water for San Diego's "natural growth cycle" is supposed to come from.
SoCal already has ~23mil people in it, I'm not sure there needs to be more. Throw in TJ and that's another 2mil. I honestly assumed the growth cycle comment was referring to some kind of economic thing, like gradually shifting from agrarian to industrial.
I agree completely, but try convincing a company that is doing well to not expand. Try telling someone out of work to not apply for a job at this company and to move there after getting the job. I'm not saying it is right. I'm just saying it is going to happen. I'm not saying growth should happen in, basically, a desert. It shouldn't. But, for better or worse, it will happen.
As ActingTheGoat mentions, the Northeast is the most densely populated part of the country. It got there due to 200 years of expansion. A similar expansion is just happening in California.
posted by eye of newt at 1:18 PM on July 25, 2022 [1 favorite]
SoCal already has ~23mil people in it, I'm not sure there needs to be more. Throw in TJ and that's another 2mil. I honestly assumed the growth cycle comment was referring to some kind of economic thing, like gradually shifting from agrarian to industrial.
I agree completely, but try convincing a company that is doing well to not expand. Try telling someone out of work to not apply for a job at this company and to move there after getting the job. I'm not saying it is right. I'm just saying it is going to happen. I'm not saying growth should happen in, basically, a desert. It shouldn't. But, for better or worse, it will happen.
As ActingTheGoat mentions, the Northeast is the most densely populated part of the country. It got there due to 200 years of expansion. A similar expansion is just happening in California.
posted by eye of newt at 1:18 PM on July 25, 2022 [1 favorite]
Is this for real? This is more than I pay in the Bay Area, and so many people were talking about relocating to San Diego to save money. Oops.
The average for one-bedroom apartments on Craigslist right now in
- SF Bay is $2640
- San Diego is $2535
posted by aniola at 1:18 PM on July 25, 2022 [1 favorite]
The average for one-bedroom apartments on Craigslist right now in
- SF Bay is $2640
- San Diego is $2535
posted by aniola at 1:18 PM on July 25, 2022 [1 favorite]
> My friend who is originally from Peru always makes the observation that white Americans living in other countries are usually called "expats" and not "immigrants."
This is partly a terminology problem, a case of racism-induced myopia in newspaper style guides, and partly a real legal status.
Americans who ostensibly "emigrate" still owe tax to the American government. It is not possible for an American to truly "emigrate," giving up obligations to the homeland, unless one is willing to formally renounce American citizenship.
Being an American abroad means being forever "other" -- you pay special taxes, you need a special bank account that reports back to Uncle Sam, etc etc. The U.S. government's blinkered view of "citizenship" makes Americans more into "subjects," creatures that have no existence outside the purview of the indomitable State.
As long as you carry that US passport, you are always an "expat" because Uncle Sam is always watching.
posted by your postings may, in fact, be signed at 1:22 PM on July 25, 2022 [8 favorites]
This is partly a terminology problem, a case of racism-induced myopia in newspaper style guides, and partly a real legal status.
Americans who ostensibly "emigrate" still owe tax to the American government. It is not possible for an American to truly "emigrate," giving up obligations to the homeland, unless one is willing to formally renounce American citizenship.
Being an American abroad means being forever "other" -- you pay special taxes, you need a special bank account that reports back to Uncle Sam, etc etc. The U.S. government's blinkered view of "citizenship" makes Americans more into "subjects," creatures that have no existence outside the purview of the indomitable State.
As long as you carry that US passport, you are always an "expat" because Uncle Sam is always watching.
posted by your postings may, in fact, be signed at 1:22 PM on July 25, 2022 [8 favorites]
...San Diego citizens that are priced out of the local housing market and so rent or buy in Tijuana but still commute back to San Diego for work.
I have every faith in the Invisible Hand that those San Diego prices are going to trickle south across the border, sooner than later.
posted by Thorzdad at 1:36 PM on July 25, 2022 [4 favorites]
I have every faith in the Invisible Hand that those San Diego prices are going to trickle south across the border, sooner than later.
posted by Thorzdad at 1:36 PM on July 25, 2022 [4 favorites]
Is this for real? This is more than I pay in the Bay Area, and so many people were talking about relocating to San Diego to save money. Oops.I’d believe it - the last century was focused on building single-family houses and a lot of policies discouraged building single bedroom apartments at all. Even downtown a lot of the new buildings ran towards 2-3 bedroom apartments.
posted by adamsc at 1:46 PM on July 25, 2022
I think it is worth interrogating why we feel it is necessary and important to draw semantic lines around people who are wealthy enough (white enough) to be migrant workers by a different name. These are economically displaces persons, just like traditional (brown, poor) migrant workers. Explaining why they don't fit traditional uses of the word is drawing an arbitrary line that keeps us from realizing and internalizing that we have more in common with all economically displaced persons than any rich person.
I think it is radically important that we begin to align ourselves and stop using these sorts of semantic dances to keep groups of people experiencing the same thing apart for legal fictions. Solidarity and unification.
posted by Bottlecap at 1:52 PM on July 25, 2022 [11 favorites]
I think it is radically important that we begin to align ourselves and stop using these sorts of semantic dances to keep groups of people experiencing the same thing apart for legal fictions. Solidarity and unification.
posted by Bottlecap at 1:52 PM on July 25, 2022 [11 favorites]
A similar expansion is just happening in California.
*starting to happen. Water only flows uphill toward money to a certain extent. The status quo is untenable in the term of several decades, and rapid growth will just make it crash in various ways sooner.
posted by SaltySalticid at 2:03 PM on July 25, 2022
*starting to happen. Water only flows uphill toward money to a certain extent. The status quo is untenable in the term of several decades, and rapid growth will just make it crash in various ways sooner.
posted by SaltySalticid at 2:03 PM on July 25, 2022
I wonder how many of these folks are going to try and skip paying tax (even if just state / Mexican depending on their scenario) and find out the hard way that fucking around and finding out can have consequences.
I read a few articles about this trend and there seemed to be a lot of "I don't like the potholes here in Mexico" type comments - I hope these people are contributing back to the Mexican tax base in some way, especially if they are "going to Costco across the border to shop" and not even really contributing via sales tax.
Americans who ostensibly "emigrate" still owe tax to the American government. It is not possible for an American to truly "emigrate," giving up obligations to the homeland, unless one is willing to formally renounce American citizenship.
Yeah and its hard and takes a long time and costs a lot. I know several people who have from when I lived in the Cayman Islands - a lot of people, whose parents had the means to do so or potential pregnancy medical issues, were born in the US (and never lived there beyond a few months as a child) and got US Citizenship....and then find out later in life that such citizenship has costs. Many of them didn't think writing a $100k+ tax check each year to the US IRS was worth the benefit they got of a faster immigration line in Miami. I'm actually surprised the numbers of people expatriating formally went down last year. I would have thought COVID would have driven more people to stay in place in other countries.
posted by inflatablekiwi at 2:04 PM on July 25, 2022
I read a few articles about this trend and there seemed to be a lot of "I don't like the potholes here in Mexico" type comments - I hope these people are contributing back to the Mexican tax base in some way, especially if they are "going to Costco across the border to shop" and not even really contributing via sales tax.
Americans who ostensibly "emigrate" still owe tax to the American government. It is not possible for an American to truly "emigrate," giving up obligations to the homeland, unless one is willing to formally renounce American citizenship.
Yeah and its hard and takes a long time and costs a lot. I know several people who have from when I lived in the Cayman Islands - a lot of people, whose parents had the means to do so or potential pregnancy medical issues, were born in the US (and never lived there beyond a few months as a child) and got US Citizenship....and then find out later in life that such citizenship has costs. Many of them didn't think writing a $100k+ tax check each year to the US IRS was worth the benefit they got of a faster immigration line in Miami. I'm actually surprised the numbers of people expatriating formally went down last year. I would have thought COVID would have driven more people to stay in place in other countries.
posted by inflatablekiwi at 2:04 PM on July 25, 2022
It is not possible for an American to truly "emigrate," giving up obligations to the homeland, unless one is willing to formally renounce American citizenship.
My spouse has to stop me 3-5x per week from renouncing my American citizenship to whoever happens to be around, because we have not actually moved out of the US at this time.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 2:26 PM on July 25, 2022 [25 favorites]
My spouse has to stop me 3-5x per week from renouncing my American citizenship to whoever happens to be around, because we have not actually moved out of the US at this time.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 2:26 PM on July 25, 2022 [25 favorites]
These are economically displaces persons, just like traditional (brown, poor) migrant workers.
I don't know. These folks are living less than an hour's drive from where they work (omitting the border lines). If someone had drawn a map a little differently in the nineteenth century, this article wouldn't even exist--living an hour away from work isn't noteworthy. I'm not sure they have the same problems and interests as people forced to leave their cultures entirely and travel hundreds or thousands of miles away to live and work among strangers. To me, these people, with the exception of the people with close family ties to Mexico, seem more like cost-of-living arbitrageurs.
posted by praemunire at 2:27 PM on July 25, 2022 [7 favorites]
I don't know. These folks are living less than an hour's drive from where they work (omitting the border lines). If someone had drawn a map a little differently in the nineteenth century, this article wouldn't even exist--living an hour away from work isn't noteworthy. I'm not sure they have the same problems and interests as people forced to leave their cultures entirely and travel hundreds or thousands of miles away to live and work among strangers. To me, these people, with the exception of the people with close family ties to Mexico, seem more like cost-of-living arbitrageurs.
posted by praemunire at 2:27 PM on July 25, 2022 [7 favorites]
I think it is worth interrogating why we feel it is necessary and important to draw semantic lines around people who are wealthy enough (white enough) to be migrant workers by a different name. These are economically displaces persons, just like traditional (brown, poor) migrant workers. Explaining why they don't fit traditional uses of the word is drawing an arbitrary line that keeps us from realizing and internalizing that we have more in common with all economically displaced persons than any rich person.
None of these people are migrant workers; the people in this article, the Mexican population that has long commuted in daily from Tijuana to San Diego primarily to work in low-paid jobs like housekeeping and construction, the nurses and other workers who live in Windsor, ON and work in Detroit [PDF], the finance people taking the train from Connecticut to Wall Street every day, the people in your neighbourhood who commute to a job in a different community.
As has been said multiple times, migrant workers are a different group of people who travel seasonally for work, spending weeks or months in one place, then moving to the next, mostly for agricultural jobs (since agriculture is the one industry that tends to have very different labour needs during specific times, like planting/harvest). Migrant workers are subject to a lot of challenges due to their lack of protection in the places they work that normal commuting workers don't face, and I don't think it helps migrant workers to pretend that they don't exist or to pretend that a bunch of other workers not facing those problems are also migrant workers. Particularly when words already exist for cross-border commuters, immigrants and expats.
posted by Superilla at 2:28 PM on July 25, 2022 [19 favorites]
None of these people are migrant workers; the people in this article, the Mexican population that has long commuted in daily from Tijuana to San Diego primarily to work in low-paid jobs like housekeeping and construction, the nurses and other workers who live in Windsor, ON and work in Detroit [PDF], the finance people taking the train from Connecticut to Wall Street every day, the people in your neighbourhood who commute to a job in a different community.
As has been said multiple times, migrant workers are a different group of people who travel seasonally for work, spending weeks or months in one place, then moving to the next, mostly for agricultural jobs (since agriculture is the one industry that tends to have very different labour needs during specific times, like planting/harvest). Migrant workers are subject to a lot of challenges due to their lack of protection in the places they work that normal commuting workers don't face, and I don't think it helps migrant workers to pretend that they don't exist or to pretend that a bunch of other workers not facing those problems are also migrant workers. Particularly when words already exist for cross-border commuters, immigrants and expats.
posted by Superilla at 2:28 PM on July 25, 2022 [19 favorites]
pretend that a bunch of other workers not facing those problems are also migrant workers
Well, for one, it makes it a heck of a lot easier to pretend like you care about migrants, while in fact promoting their continued marginalization.
posted by aramaic at 2:39 PM on July 25, 2022 [2 favorites]
Well, for one, it makes it a heck of a lot easier to pretend like you care about migrants, while in fact promoting their continued marginalization.
posted by aramaic at 2:39 PM on July 25, 2022 [2 favorites]
I could have sworn that there were legal implications to living and working abroad. I remember working in London and having to go get my passport stamped in Paris every so often. That might've been a UK rule and not a US rule. Same with Costa Rica or one of the South American countries I looked into. I wasn't trying to avoid income tax but there seemed to be residency rules where you couldn't have a primary residence in a foreign country. Was that the US imposing those rules on the foreign country?
posted by geoff. at 2:40 PM on July 25, 2022
posted by geoff. at 2:40 PM on July 25, 2022
That sounds more like a visa requirement imposed by the foreign country, but it would depend on the exact country.
posted by meowzilla at 2:43 PM on July 25, 2022
posted by meowzilla at 2:43 PM on July 25, 2022
Wow … fascinating article, and what a situation. It’s almost as if this country’s whole “let’s pretend we’re using real estate for housing humans and not actually as a magical wealth creation vehicle” might actually bad enough for the citizenry that they can’t stick around.
Say, the house you’re trying to sell doesn’t look like the Jones’ ? Let’s [get you to] do a bunch of shit to it to inflate its price and magically create new commission opportunities for every real estate agent that has a house in the neighborhood, and a bigger cut for all the banks the buyers are using….
Oh and you have to give the sale price a bump because now you need way more to buy your next house.
And hey if that’s not an option, you can always move south of the border!
posted by armoir from antproof case at 3:52 PM on July 25, 2022 [1 favorite]
Say, the house you’re trying to sell doesn’t look like the Jones’ ? Let’s [get you to] do a bunch of shit to it to inflate its price and magically create new commission opportunities for every real estate agent that has a house in the neighborhood, and a bigger cut for all the banks the buyers are using….
Oh and you have to give the sale price a bump because now you need way more to buy your next house.
And hey if that’s not an option, you can always move south of the border!
posted by armoir from antproof case at 3:52 PM on July 25, 2022 [1 favorite]
Migrant workers are employed during specific times of year, traditionally harvest, and relocate home or to other work in the off season. Not really the same as a daily commute.
The fall of the American empire is a long season.
posted by srboisvert at 4:13 PM on July 25, 2022 [3 favorites]
The fall of the American empire is a long season.
posted by srboisvert at 4:13 PM on July 25, 2022 [3 favorites]
Not to derail too much, but there's a huge debate over whether Native-speaking English teachers in South Korea are expats or immigrants. They do tend to be young, and many in debt from college. Then again, assuming the "immigrant" mantle seems a bridge too far -- people typically leave after a few years (not always), and if they tried hard enough they probably could have found work at home (US, Canada, Australia, South Africa, New Zealand, UK -- those are countries "approved" by South Korea, which is laughable to Filipinos and Indians who are fluent in English, a whole other debate basically).
Anyhow, calling yourself an expat sounds kind of sexy and romantic, when in fact you're trying to pay off a huge pile of debt like everybody else. Calling yourself an immigrant is also problematic, because you aren't sweating it out on a construction site daily like thousands of Filipino or Chinese or Vietnamese are.
Complicated, with a huge dose of racisms and classisms all around!
posted by cidrab at 4:33 PM on July 25, 2022 [5 favorites]
Anyhow, calling yourself an expat sounds kind of sexy and romantic, when in fact you're trying to pay off a huge pile of debt like everybody else. Calling yourself an immigrant is also problematic, because you aren't sweating it out on a construction site daily like thousands of Filipino or Chinese or Vietnamese are.
Complicated, with a huge dose of racisms and classisms all around!
posted by cidrab at 4:33 PM on July 25, 2022 [5 favorites]
There's an international border involved, but there's also an understanding that it's an imaginary line drawn on a map, and we're all goddamn grownups here, so we'll figure it out via policy.Don’t pat Switzerland’s back too hard. The fact that most of the people crossing that border are “European” has a lot to do with it. The minaret ban is still in place.
posted by JoeBlubaugh at 5:05 PM on July 25, 2022 [4 favorites]
Re: SD water supplies. The Claud "Bud" Lewis Carlsbad Desalination Plant, in San Diego County, produces 50 million gallons of water a day (or, "enough drinking water for 400,000 people," in a county of more than 3.3 million). It's the largest facility of its kind in the country, and was built by Poseidon. No, for real. (WaPo, last year: Desalination can make saltwater drinkable. Removing salt comes with environmental and economic costs, though.) Years ago, Poseidon proposed another Southern California plant (in Huntingdon Beach), but were ultimately turned down by the California Coastal Commission this past May.
posted by Iris Gambol at 5:20 PM on July 25, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by Iris Gambol at 5:20 PM on July 25, 2022 [1 favorite]
This is one of the rare situations where there’s a stupid NYT article about my hometown, and I go to MeFI, and the comments aren’t any better. “These people are migrants” isn’t the anti-racist bon mot you think it is. A local point of view:
- San Diego is a border town. When i was a kid crossing the border was almost an afterthought; the last twenty years have been terrible to the border situation due to national politics that many people here wish would just go away. People cross the border for all sorts of reasons - seeing family, obtaining cheap medical care and partaking in some amazing fine dining being common reasons to go to Mexico from the US side. The idea that the people moving South are identifying as “expats” reads to me as a projection by the NYT - I’ve rarely heard this term used in this situation, and it was not uncommon even before the housing based insanity. My neighbors just retired down there and they didn’t use that stupid term.
- Speaking of housing based insanity, this is another thing driven largely by people moving from other expensive areas into San Diego because it seems “cheaper.” It’s hard to state just how quick and awful this has been. Rentals have doubled in price in the last 5 years in many communities; many people I know have essentially zero chance of raising a family in the same zip code as where they grew up. It sucks. Speaking to the NYT: please tell your local subscribers to move back, it would help.
- Regarding the “SoCal is a desert” wags: surprisingly, we’re aware of this. San Diego County actually uses less water than we did 30 years ago, and has diversified sources including one of the largest desal plants in the country and lots of storage. We’re in a drought right now but if i drive East most of the reservoirs are still full. Lots of places will have climate stressors in the next 30 years. We’re well aware that 50% of our water still comes from the Colorado. But if you’re hoping for some climate schadenfraude in the form of dessicated San Diegans running for Maine, that’s not my #1 worry at the moment.
- Speaking of my worries, there’s lots that sucks right now that is directly related to this article, not the least of which is a massive shortage in homeless services, due to an exploding unhoused population. If you’re bothered by this article, think of donating to a program that supports the homeless in your community, because I’m sure this isn’t isolated to SD.
posted by q*ben at 5:35 PM on July 25, 2022 [43 favorites]
- San Diego is a border town. When i was a kid crossing the border was almost an afterthought; the last twenty years have been terrible to the border situation due to national politics that many people here wish would just go away. People cross the border for all sorts of reasons - seeing family, obtaining cheap medical care and partaking in some amazing fine dining being common reasons to go to Mexico from the US side. The idea that the people moving South are identifying as “expats” reads to me as a projection by the NYT - I’ve rarely heard this term used in this situation, and it was not uncommon even before the housing based insanity. My neighbors just retired down there and they didn’t use that stupid term.
- Speaking of housing based insanity, this is another thing driven largely by people moving from other expensive areas into San Diego because it seems “cheaper.” It’s hard to state just how quick and awful this has been. Rentals have doubled in price in the last 5 years in many communities; many people I know have essentially zero chance of raising a family in the same zip code as where they grew up. It sucks. Speaking to the NYT: please tell your local subscribers to move back, it would help.
- Regarding the “SoCal is a desert” wags: surprisingly, we’re aware of this. San Diego County actually uses less water than we did 30 years ago, and has diversified sources including one of the largest desal plants in the country and lots of storage. We’re in a drought right now but if i drive East most of the reservoirs are still full. Lots of places will have climate stressors in the next 30 years. We’re well aware that 50% of our water still comes from the Colorado. But if you’re hoping for some climate schadenfraude in the form of dessicated San Diegans running for Maine, that’s not my #1 worry at the moment.
- Speaking of my worries, there’s lots that sucks right now that is directly related to this article, not the least of which is a massive shortage in homeless services, due to an exploding unhoused population. If you’re bothered by this article, think of donating to a program that supports the homeless in your community, because I’m sure this isn’t isolated to SD.
posted by q*ben at 5:35 PM on July 25, 2022 [43 favorites]
q*ben. My home town too. But Thanks for your comments as they express my thoughts about SD and housing but much more elegantly.
posted by WatTylerJr at 6:31 PM on July 25, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by WatTylerJr at 6:31 PM on July 25, 2022 [1 favorite]
Nothing new here. Americans have been moving to Mexico for decades if not centuries. When I was in practice in S TX, many (white) retirees moved to MX because the cost of living was much cheaper. They could afford a home and cooks/maids/ gardeners and so on on SS or pensions. They would come back to TX periodically for medical care, shopping, visits, etc. To the local norteños, the border was even more transparent; they have been passing to and fro for centuries with families spread all over TX, Nuevo Leon, Tamaulipas, and points South. I have recently been considering moving myself. Not Tijuana, but further South. Many Countries in CR have pensionado programs and will give resident status if you have income above a certain amount or buy property above a certain value.
posted by sudogeek at 6:35 PM on July 25, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by sudogeek at 6:35 PM on July 25, 2022 [3 favorites]
$4000+ a month income to get a residence permit? That rules me out.
It's more like $2500, but it's also possible to qualify based on savings (having around $43,000 in savings). You can also get a residency permit by buying a house, but it has to be a fairly expensive one. NYT fact checkers didn't do a great job on this one.
posted by ssg at 7:16 PM on July 25, 2022 [4 favorites]
It's more like $2500, but it's also possible to qualify based on savings (having around $43,000 in savings). You can also get a residency permit by buying a house, but it has to be a fairly expensive one. NYT fact checkers didn't do a great job on this one.
posted by ssg at 7:16 PM on July 25, 2022 [4 favorites]
“These people are migrants” isn’t the anti-racist bon mot you think it is.
I found the article interesting, but calling the people in the article "migrant workers" is both tone deaf and inaccurate. Even ignoring the multitude of other ways that the term doesn't apply, not one of the people featured moved for work opportunities -- in fact, they moved away from their work, a couple of them now trading long daily cross-border commutes for cheaper housing.
Not to derail too much, but there's a huge debate over whether Native-speaking English teachers in South Korea are expats or immigrants. They do tend to be young, and many in debt from college. Then again, assuming the "immigrant" mantle seems a bridge too far -- people typically leave after a few years (not always),
That description reminds me somewhat of the term "guest worker," as a euphemism for people who are welcomed for a time and then expected to leave sooner or later.
posted by Dip Flash at 7:32 PM on July 25, 2022 [1 favorite]
I found the article interesting, but calling the people in the article "migrant workers" is both tone deaf and inaccurate. Even ignoring the multitude of other ways that the term doesn't apply, not one of the people featured moved for work opportunities -- in fact, they moved away from their work, a couple of them now trading long daily cross-border commutes for cheaper housing.
Not to derail too much, but there's a huge debate over whether Native-speaking English teachers in South Korea are expats or immigrants. They do tend to be young, and many in debt from college. Then again, assuming the "immigrant" mantle seems a bridge too far -- people typically leave after a few years (not always),
That description reminds me somewhat of the term "guest worker," as a euphemism for people who are welcomed for a time and then expected to leave sooner or later.
posted by Dip Flash at 7:32 PM on July 25, 2022 [1 favorite]
Another Southern Californian here. The article isn’t the best, especially with the migrant worker term thrown in, but points to a real problem. Low income service workers have always made the border crossing commute. The trend is for people who would have otherwise been able to live In SD but simply can’t afford it.
Housing prices, both to rent and to buy are crazy. It used to be that way out in Riverside or San Bernardino was the answer, but drive until you qualify is no longer possible. We need to build lots more housing in southern CA and expand transit access so we don’t have to drive everywhere.
From n environmental perspective, CA policies don’t mean shot for global climate if everyone is moving to Vegas or Phoenix or Dallas where emissions are even worse
posted by CostcoCultist at 7:42 PM on July 25, 2022 [4 favorites]
Housing prices, both to rent and to buy are crazy. It used to be that way out in Riverside or San Bernardino was the answer, but drive until you qualify is no longer possible. We need to build lots more housing in southern CA and expand transit access so we don’t have to drive everywhere.
From n environmental perspective, CA policies don’t mean shot for global climate if everyone is moving to Vegas or Phoenix or Dallas where emissions are even worse
posted by CostcoCultist at 7:42 PM on July 25, 2022 [4 favorites]
Here's someone who commutes from Pennsylvania to California:
This nurse commutes 2,600 miles to work in Oakland. Is he nuts?
This is in 2017 - the disparity in housing costs is even worse now.
posted by meowzilla at 8:22 PM on July 25, 2022 [1 favorite]
This nurse commutes 2,600 miles to work in Oakland. Is he nuts?
This is in 2017 - the disparity in housing costs is even worse now.
posted by meowzilla at 8:22 PM on July 25, 2022 [1 favorite]
When will the government intervene to lower housing prices? Burning things to the ground seems more profitable by the day. Alan Greenspan said he was wrong decades ago, but the headless machine keeps moving towards the cliffs
posted by eustatic at 8:49 PM on July 25, 2022 [4 favorites]
posted by eustatic at 8:49 PM on July 25, 2022 [4 favorites]
I was just there for work, put up in a hotel (which was its own crazy inflated-price racket, especially during Comic-con season). I was somewhat out of town, up by Mira Mesa, and just for funsies one day I decided to look on Redfin to see what houses were going for there. Crazy.
We have a small permanent staff there, working on Coronado, and keep losing them. Can't afford to live there on government pay.
posted by ctmf at 12:57 AM on July 26, 2022 [2 favorites]
We have a small permanent staff there, working on Coronado, and keep losing them. Can't afford to live there on government pay.
posted by ctmf at 12:57 AM on July 26, 2022 [2 favorites]
I know it's been a topic of conversation in high military circles that it's becoming a problem with all the bases there (North Island, Point Loma, 32nd street, amphibious base, Miramar). I mean, if my GS-12 civilians are having a hard time, what are the junior sailors and marines doing? And how do you run a base nobody can live near?
posted by ctmf at 1:01 AM on July 26, 2022 [6 favorites]
posted by ctmf at 1:01 AM on July 26, 2022 [6 favorites]
people typically leave after a few years (not always), and if they tried hard enough they probably could have found work at home
I think you're confusing 'immigrant' and 'economic migrant'? Like, being able to get a job back home doesn't mean that you've moved across the world about less, which is what immigration is.
I'm an immigrant. Have been since I was about six. Most of the places I lived were never intended to be permanent stops. I was still an immigrant - it was a place I moved to, to make my primary home and residence, for a time, without citizenship (or any desire for it in my case).
posted by Dysk at 1:28 AM on July 26, 2022
I think you're confusing 'immigrant' and 'economic migrant'? Like, being able to get a job back home doesn't mean that you've moved across the world about less, which is what immigration is.
I'm an immigrant. Have been since I was about six. Most of the places I lived were never intended to be permanent stops. I was still an immigrant - it was a place I moved to, to make my primary home and residence, for a time, without citizenship (or any desire for it in my case).
posted by Dysk at 1:28 AM on July 26, 2022
Only Americans could neatly combine 'rentier capitalism', 'gentrification' and 'colonialism' and then quibble about the definition of 'migration status'....
posted by prismatic7 at 3:38 AM on July 26, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by prismatic7 at 3:38 AM on July 26, 2022 [2 favorites]
reminds me of people that ride bicycles in fancy bicycle rider gear to let everyone know that they can afford car, too
How about because
1) we can afford the "fancy bicycle rider gear", which costs a lot less than upkeep on a car which we may or may not be paying for in addition.
2) we actually ride our bicycles enough that it makes a difference in ways I don't talk about in mixed company.
I think you're ascribing your own motivations to people you're too lazy to try to empathize with or just do a quick google search about.
posted by tigrrrlily at 9:08 AM on July 26, 2022 [11 favorites]
How about because
1) we can afford the "fancy bicycle rider gear", which costs a lot less than upkeep on a car which we may or may not be paying for in addition.
2) we actually ride our bicycles enough that it makes a difference in ways I don't talk about in mixed company.
I think you're ascribing your own motivations to people you're too lazy to try to empathize with or just do a quick google search about.
posted by tigrrrlily at 9:08 AM on July 26, 2022 [11 favorites]
Only Americans could neatly combine 'rentier capitalism', 'gentrification' and 'colonialism' and then quibble about the definition of 'migration status'....
Don't kid yourself.
posted by praemunire at 9:43 AM on July 26, 2022 [3 favorites]
Don't kid yourself.
posted by praemunire at 9:43 AM on July 26, 2022 [3 favorites]
The "Southern California doesn't need more people" take is a bad one in the context of discussions about affordable housing policy. I don't think we're gonna solve the water crisis by forcing more working class people into homelessness and untenable rents.
posted by Emily's Fist at 9:50 AM on July 26, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by Emily's Fist at 9:50 AM on July 26, 2022 [1 favorite]
Tear down the wall.
posted by aniola at 10:48 AM on July 26, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by aniola at 10:48 AM on July 26, 2022 [2 favorites]
« Older Pope Francis apologizes to Indigenous residential... | MetaFilter Steering Committee Self-Nominations... Newer »
This thread has been archived and is closed to new comments
posted by Going To Maine at 9:45 AM on July 25, 2022 [12 favorites]