What takes years and costs $20K? A San Francisco trash can

August 14, 2022 10:19 AM

City officials hired a Bay Area industrial firm to custom-design the pricey trash can along with two other prototypes that cost taxpayers $19,000 and $11,000 each.
posted by folklore724 (72 comments total)

That $19,000 prototype is one good-looking municipal trash can.
posted by box at 10:26 AM on August 14, 2022 [3 favorites]

They keep mentioning the problem of large items left beside trash cans, but failed to mention how they think the new can designs will help with that problem.

Maybe they should get a Magic Kingdom- style vacuum tube system.
posted by The Underpants Monster at 10:27 AM on August 14, 2022 [3 favorites]

"But the good looks of the shiny new trash cans have not protected them from vandalism and disrespect"
I am SICK of the BLATANT disrespect of GARBAGE around here!!!
posted by bleep at 10:28 AM on August 14, 2022 [8 favorites]

The article clarifies the misleading headline. The city is evaluating a bunch of designs and will eventually deploy about 3,000 of the chosen one. Only the prototypes of custom ones are this expensive, even if the most expensive prototype is chosen, it will be much cheaper in volume. The most expensive prototype is less than 1/4 of 1% of the total project cost.
posted by snofoam at 10:28 AM on August 14, 2022 [85 favorites]

That's a custom steel sculpture with some pretty unique requirements, it looks like the actual price per can is not to exceed $3k. Catchy headline but let's look at what's involved in the program:

- A survey with a QR code meaning it has a website (developer needed presumably), someone to come up with the survey itself (data analyst/researcher), someone to coordinate and oversee this (project manager), hopefully QA, and possibly a translator. That alone, assuming they had an MSA with an existing contractor could easily be $25-50k.

- The can can't be tipped over, new locks, small enough hole to rummage through. Likely went through several design reviews. Custom steel work. Someone to install it and secure it. Then follow up to make sure it actually works. No idea what the cost is but for one I could see it again in the ballpark of $100k.

They need 3,000 so likely this went under an RFP for probably a couple million which makes sense. I don't know which budget this pulls from but SF is one of the most expensive cities in the world so a couple million is nothing to have attractive trash cans that presumably work well.
posted by geoff. at 10:31 AM on August 14, 2022 [21 favorites]

Sorry, but this is kind of a weak post, with just one article. San Francisco is having an issue with their garbage cans, and they're trying to solve it. $19K and $11k does not seem unreasonable for the research, design, and manufacture of these one-off prototypes (especially considering that San Francisco's budget is almost $14 billion). Yes, the article talks about potential corruption in the selection of the vendor that maintain's the city's trash cans, but that doesn't appear to have anything to do with these trash cans.
posted by jonathanhughes at 10:34 AM on August 14, 2022 [54 favorites]

$19,000 is not really a super-pricey budget for an industrial design project. That's a 30-day salary for a one-man operation at an $80/hour price point, which is low for an engineering specialist. And that's not taking any material costs into account.

I'll be interested in the inevitable criticism of whichever design they go with—is it anti-homeless or anti-wildlife? Does it actively make throwing garbage away harder to do? How do people "adapt" to the design in ways that themselves pose problems?—but I'm not sure that paying a reasonable amount of money for specialized and resource-heavy labor is a bad thing. Also, urban design is fascinating and it's neat when places take it seriously.
posted by Tom Hanks Cannot Be Trusted at 10:35 AM on August 14, 2022 [29 favorites]

Tourism is very important to the economy of San Francisco, so getting a good design is worth spending some money on.
posted by Bee'sWing at 10:36 AM on August 14, 2022 [6 favorites]

$19k is super cheap for such a prototype. Even with zero labor costs for design, it would still cost several thousand to make.
posted by ryanrs at 10:37 AM on August 14, 2022 [11 favorites]

I'm seriously surprised any modern city trash can redesign doesn't include some kind of sharps container.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 10:39 AM on August 14, 2022 [22 favorites]

For real, $19k is the design company taking a big loss on the prototype, in hopes of winning the design and making money on the much cheaper finished units.

I've had thousands of dollars of custom welding and fabrication done for my car (weirdo offroad minivan). If I took a pic of that can to my fabricator, it would cost something like $19k. It ABSOLUTELY would not be as cheap as, say, $5k.

e: obligatory weirdo minivan pics
posted by ryanrs at 10:41 AM on August 14, 2022 [11 favorites]

Making it more difficult to rummage in trash cans seems stupid when they could be using that money to reduce the impetus to rummage. Literally encouraging people to dump their recyclables on the sidewalk and also spending municipal dollars feeding the homeless would probably cut that behavior down significantly I would hope.
posted by BrotherCaine at 10:51 AM on August 14, 2022 [12 favorites]

I see this criticism of the current design:

Officials say the current bins have too big a hole that allows for easy rummaging.

and I see something which is either (a) not actually a problem, if urban foragers are well-behaved, or (b) an attempt at a technological fix to a social problem, if they're being disruptive or leaving a mess.
posted by jackbishop at 10:52 AM on August 14, 2022 [16 favorites]

That's exactly what I came here to mention. People don't rummage in the garbage for fun. They want something to return for deposits, or something in good enough shape to eat. To deny people access to public trash -- it's brutal. It's like those stores that dump used coffee grounds on top of the baked goods in the dumpster.
posted by Countess Elena at 10:54 AM on August 14, 2022 [16 favorites]

In 2007, then-Mayor Gavin Newsom eliminated about 1,500 of the city’s 4,500 trash cans because he said they were not helping keep streets clean and were becoming magnets for more trash.

That seems totally backwards. It sounds like what was needed (and still is, given how the prototypes quickly became magnets for piles of trash, too) is more options for people who need to throw stuff away, not fewer.

I have mixed feelings about the anti-rummaging design elements. I get why it is a problem that they want to reduce, but it also seems cruel given that there are people who are reliant on what they can pull from trash cans.
posted by Dip Flash at 10:58 AM on August 14, 2022 [3 favorites]

"Small enough opening to prevent rummaging" is the same as "too small opening to allow tossing of garbage."

Throwing out your coffee cup should not be an ordeal that requires opening and closing a door like a mail-box, or placing it into a specific hole. Being able to drop it into a large hole, or even toss it, is important. Making use of trash-cans frictionless is important. People really don't want to have to touch these things.
posted by explosion at 11:03 AM on August 14, 2022 [19 favorites]

People really don't want to have to touch these things.

People 12 hours into alcohol withdrawal trying to get money for the cheapest booze possible to stave off hallucinations and shakes will beg to differ.
posted by geoff. at 11:06 AM on August 14, 2022 [3 favorites]

Honestly, I didn't realize until now that small openings and door mechanisms were to stop rummaging. I thought they were supposed to stop odors, spills, and that thing where high winds blow a bag inside out. You know, actually filling a need instead of punishing the homeless.

I suppose I know now, too, why there seem to be so few trash cans on my daily walk with my dog, even though I meet so many other dog walkers on the way. (People who are sick of carrying the little plastic bags occasionally just decide that one random spot on the street is a dog poop bag depository. I don't do this, but it's what you're going to get if you don't provide the service people need, which is something San Francisco also knows a lot about.)
posted by Countess Elena at 11:17 AM on August 14, 2022 [7 favorites]

The article also mentions the existing cans "overflowing" as a problem. Unless the high cost of the prototypes includes the ability to self-empty (and is that how we get Daleks? That seems like how we might get Daleks), the can isn't the problem.
posted by Halloween Jack at 11:35 AM on August 14, 2022 [3 favorites]

That seems totally backwards. It sounds like what was needed (and still is, given how the prototypes quickly became magnets for piles of trash, too) is more options for people who need to throw stuff away, not fewer.

People definitely made this exact point back in 2007. Newsom has always been a bit of a lightweight and joke as a policy guy and politician but that's probably why he was hand selected by the Gettys and the Fishers in the first place.
posted by flamk at 11:35 AM on August 14, 2022 [6 favorites]

Wait, I thought trash cans were supposed to be magnets for trash?
posted by ryanrs at 11:36 AM on August 14, 2022 [7 favorites]

Forgive me if I missed it, but I was surprised not to see any mention of underground waste containers - they can store a lot about 4 cubic yards of trash out of the way - so they need to be emptied less often.
posted by rongorongo at 11:37 AM on August 14, 2022 [9 favorites]

One of the competing commercial designs is the Bigbelly, which I see regularly in the less busy cities around SF. It compacts its trash so it has a higher capacity and is connected to the cloud so it sends a signal when it's full. It costs $3,000 a year to lease.

There's also a picture of one of the more common existing trash cans in that article.
posted by meowzilla at 11:43 AM on August 14, 2022 [3 favorites]

Article mentions a corruption angle. Is there corruption in the trash cans or not?
posted by Sterros at 11:46 AM on August 14, 2022

"The bins also have hinges that need constant repair and locks that are easy to breach

I will give you dollars to donuts (or these days I guess that's donuts to dollars) that eliminating repair costs for 3000 trash cans will pay for itself and the prototypes in less than two years. Probably one.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 11:53 AM on August 14, 2022 [2 favorites]

One of the competing commercial designs is the Bigbelly, which I see regularly in the less busy cities around SF.

They're also supposed to be ratproof. I understand why we're focusing on rummaging here, but if a person can rummage, a rat can, too.
posted by praemunire at 11:59 AM on August 14, 2022 [5 favorites]

ryanrs: that’s very cool! Looks like a heavily modded old Sienna. Did you think about starting from a Delica or something more off-road capable? There’s obviously something more fun about making a vehicle do things it was never meant for, though. I’m holding out hope that something around the form factor of a Delica makes a comeback, they are super popular in BC as off-road campers, but the right hand drive and mechanical iffiness are dealbreakers for me.
posted by Jon Mitchell at 12:00 PM on August 14, 2022

The city is so serious about the endeavor it has created interactive maps so residents can track and test the different designs, which include the Soft Square, the priciest prototype at $20,900. The boxy stainless steel receptacle has openings for trash and for can and bottle recycling and includes a foot pedal.

I rate foot pedals on public litter bins as a design error.
posted by flabdablet at 12:05 PM on August 14, 2022 [4 favorites]

"Article mentions a corruption angle. Is there corruption in the trash cans or not?"

It appears that the corruption was in the election of the company that manages all the city's trash cans, not in the design or implementation of these trash cans.
posted by jonathanhughes at 12:12 PM on August 14, 2022 [1 favorite]

SF has a budget of over a billion dollars for the homeless. A $3K trash can, or even multiple $20K trash can prototypes, is a rounding error. I don't think "open smelly trash cans" are an important or valid strategy to pursue.
posted by meowzilla at 12:13 PM on August 14, 2022 [2 favorites]

In Arlington Virginia there was similar public outrage about a million dollar bus stop that resulted political fiasco. The prototype stop that was built cost a million but that also included the the design, tooling, and fabrication prep costs out of the way to be ready to manufacture the 30 or so additional bus stops. Since that important context wasn’t provided by the media or the critics of the project the voters reacted negatively and as a result after a 10 year delay we are finally getting the replacement bus stops built on a new supposedly simplified plan.
posted by interogative mood at 12:18 PM on August 14, 2022 [8 favorites]

Officials say the current bins have too big a hole that allows for easy rummaging.

See, I work for a software consulting firm, and I'm on the product strategy side of things.

Clients will hire us to build them things. But historically, the things that clients have asked them to build don't make them happy after we've built them. So now we spend a fair amount of time trying to determine what problem this tool they want us to build will solve for them. And after digging in, often it won't: it does something, but it doesn't solve the real problem.

If the problem is that people are rummaging through your trashcans, the problem isn't that your trashcans are too easy to rummage through. The problem is that there are people who have to rummage through your trash cans in order to survive.

If you're an individual, this is a problem. But this is a city. With people and resources. So rather than spend 100k on a perfect trash can, let's look at the actual problem. Often it will cost more than the trash cans, and require commitments from other groups, but I'd rather spend money and energy on solutions that work over slapping a coat of paint on a rotten system.
posted by nushustu at 12:29 PM on August 14, 2022 [25 favorites]

$20k for a prototype new development of a set of trash cans that will be deployed over an entire city and that have to meet all sorts of requirements is not expensive at all.

I think the framing of this as though it were a frivolous expense is pretty ludicrous.

That said, I also think that the city would have been just as well off doing actual market analysis of how other cities have solved the same problem, rather than probably re-inventing the wheel.
posted by tclark at 12:49 PM on August 14, 2022 [11 favorites]

As others have said above, that is a deeply disingenuous headline. San Francisco's relationship with trash is as complicated as its relationship with every other damn thing, which is to say: very. Countess Elena and nushustu are right to question the morality of a society that decides that the correct solution to a people rummaging through trash cans for their survival is to make trash cans that are harder through rummage through.

I live and work in downtown San Francisco. These problems feel very personal to me. Matt Haney, quoted in the linked article, is my State Assembly rep (and he's generally awesome, and definitely wise to think twice about corruption with any SF DPW project). When I look out my living room window I often see a lot of trash. I sometimes see real human misery and despair. I just don't understand how anyone can look at what is happening here and conclude anything other than that housing and health care are basic human rights.
posted by la glaneuse at 12:50 PM on August 14, 2022 [4 favorites]

It appears that the corruption was in the election of the company that manages all the city's trash cans, not in the design or implementation of these trash cans.

This is unclear. They quote someone (Assemblyman Haney) as saying this has "the stench of corruption" and it implies the whole thing was started by Nuru (who was convicted of corruption.)

It's true that he wasn't convicted of corruption for this. But if your department is majorly corrupt the minor stuff is second nature.
posted by mark k at 12:51 PM on August 14, 2022 [1 favorite]

It sounds like what was needed (and still is, given how the prototypes quickly became magnets for piles of trash, too) is more options for people who need to throw stuff away, not fewer.

I'm not so sure about this. The place I've been with the least litter is Taiwan, which has almost no public trash cans (a choice that I understand they got from Japan, which I'm told similarly clean). I don't know how the causality works there, but it wouldn't surprise me too much if in some contexts, there being fewer trash cans actually makes people less likely to litter. I don't think that idea can really be imported into the cultural context of SF, but I dunno, it seems maybe possible.

That being said, I think if the problem is trash cans becoming piles of trash, the solution pretty obviously seems like it needs to be emptying the cans more often.
posted by wesleyac at 1:17 PM on August 14, 2022 [6 favorites]

All I know is since they after they took out the public trash can on my block (which to be fair was a disaster zone), mt front stairs always have litter on them, and I have to get my garbage can out of the street ASAP or else it gets full of assholes' dog poop.

I also agree that 20k isn't that much for a prototype, but I do wish they would just get those big belly trash cans (or something like that) which have already solved a ton of problems with public trashcans. They work, they have a proven track record, and I've never seen a broken one.
posted by aspo at 1:27 PM on August 14, 2022

R2Dcan?
posted by Splunge at 1:55 PM on August 14, 2022

I was talking to someone online who is from Sabah in Malaysia and apparently they have lots of litter and no trash cans. So I guess there's not really a universal correlation between number of trash cans and amount of trash.
posted by aniola at 1:56 PM on August 14, 2022 [4 favorites]

The problem of litter around trash cans is not a problem with trash cans. It's a problem of maintenance which is the hidden flaw in almost everything these days. You need people who work full time at emptying the trash cans and keeping them clean. And for whatever reason, salary for maintenance is the first thing that gets cut.
posted by Peach at 2:03 PM on August 14, 2022 [8 favorites]

From the Bigbelly link Meowzilla shared:

In one of the many ironies of life in San Francisco, the areas around trash cans are often the filthiest. It’s an all too common site: A receptacle intended to hold garbage is instead surrounded by garbage after somebody has rifled through it for cans, bottles and other treasure, and strewn everything else all over the sidewalk.

So that's the specific problem they're trying to solve, I guess? Still trying to solve a social problem with engineering, but it isn't necessarily about denying access to trash so much as reducing the subsequent mess that's made when people rummage through the trash.

That said, I've personally never seen this issue in my city, which is only a bit smaller than SF. But we also have one of the lowest per capita unsheltered homelessness rates in the nation, largely due to our Housing First initiative, which I need to make a post about. I don't know the total cost of this trash can initiative, but if it's over $2 million, it's more than the yearly cost of said program.

I do love the design, though. Price tag is reasonable for the time and labor it took to come up with that. Dunno if it's in any way functional, though.
posted by brook horse at 2:06 PM on August 14, 2022 [1 favorite]

Price tag is reasonable for the time and labor it took to come up with that. Dunno if it's in any way functional, though.

Yah, separating the design from the actual problem, $20k for a prototype isn't crazy: it's not like once you've nailed down a product that you're going to mass produce, every single one will cost that much. You've done all of the R&D heavy lifting, once you've built some efficient processes around manufacturing, you can get that price considerably lower.
posted by nushustu at 2:26 PM on August 14, 2022 [1 favorite]

It would seem that you could ask other cities around the world and get a great trash can model that's been tested. I'd be mildly surprised if urban trash cans were not a somewhat solved problem. But it's a bit 'tempest in a teapot' to be in a tizz about prototype trash cans costing money.
posted by theora55 at 2:53 PM on August 14, 2022 [2 favorites]

The trashcans in Vancouver try to solve the rummaging issue by having a rack on the front of the can where people can put returnables.

Lessens the need to dig around inside.

(the green thing at the base of the tree in the background is a bag feeding a drip watering system)
posted by porpoise at 2:57 PM on August 14, 2022 [8 favorites]

This is a great discussion on a crappy article! I’m currently helping a public agency go through a much less intensive selection process for some outdoor trash cans - maybe 100 receptacles instead of 3,000. I’ve been doing public design work for a long time but this is my first time doing street furniture standards and trash cans are absolutely the hardest thing to get right- so many competing needs and interests. Durability, maintainability, capacity, function, aesthetics - the best designs are really sophisticated and $3k is absolutely not a high target for something that is probably expected to last a generation or two. Like the designs they’re looking at, love the discussion above, A+ topic, handshakes all around.
posted by q*ben at 3:18 PM on August 14, 2022 [6 favorites]

The trashcans in Vancouver try to solve the rummaging issue by having a rack on the front of the can where people can put returnables.

I scrolled all the way down to mention this.

The cans themselves are not rummaging proof by any means. Further, I have not seen people who are rummaging throwing trash everywhere. Generally everything is pretty tidy, in a city with lots of folks picking up bottles. The real problem is people who dump trash next to a full can.

The only thing that drives me nuts is the people who put Starbucks cups on the rack. Like they didn't think for a minute about it.

The way to prevent rummaging for deposit recyclables is to put a place outside the can for their orderly gathering. Yet everything seems designed to lock down the garbage like it's a precious commodity. Makes no sense.
posted by lookoutbelow at 3:37 PM on August 14, 2022 [2 favorites]

"Eugène-René Poubelle was a French lawyer and diplomat who introduced waste containers to Paris and made their use compulsory. This introduction was so innovative at the time that Poubelle's surname became synonymous with waste bins and remains the most common French word for a bin." - wikipedia

It's like finding out that "Ernestine Kleenex" invented the Kleenex
posted by etherist at 3:49 PM on August 14, 2022 [9 favorites]

Further, I have not seen people who are rummaging throwing trash everywhere. Generally everything is pretty tidy, in a city with lots of folks picking up bottles.

This matches my experience - the recyclers aren't the ones making a mess. They're generally trying to keep a low profile, and strewing trash over the sidewalk is a good way to annoy passerbys and attract law enforcement. The few people I've seen dumping trash and leaving it everywhere seem to be people with much greater problems than poverty.

My guess is that the recycling truck companies have influence over the trash can procurement process and have seen the amount of recyclables that can be redeemed for cash plummet over the years.
posted by meowzilla at 5:10 PM on August 14, 2022 [4 favorites]

As an industrial designer who used to work in SF, I'd love to know which firm was behind the design work. Obviously it was done as a prestige project, something that they could afford to eat the cost on in exchange for whatever recognition may come from the product. But I bet it was a big investment.
posted by rp at 5:14 PM on August 14, 2022 [1 favorite]

Yeah, most of the loose trash I've seen around bins looks like the can was full and some fell/blew back out.
posted by The Underpants Monster at 6:24 PM on August 14, 2022

Further, I have not seen people who are rummaging throwing trash everywhere.

Depends. Those heartbreaking Asian seniors picking meticulously through the trash in the evenings are tidy. Some others...not so much. And, honestly, if I were reduced to scavenging through people's trash to scrounge up enough to meet basic needs, I'm not sure how much of a fuck I would give about tidiness.
posted by praemunire at 6:44 PM on August 14, 2022

Discarded 2nd Generation Mac Pro cooling protoype
posted by JoeXIII007 at 6:44 PM on August 14, 2022

Mission Local did a deep dive on this story last year, including some fun discussion of how “‘everyone was a little stumped’ by Public Works’ decision to design its own model”.

Garbage odyssey: San Francisco’s bizarre, costly quest for the perfect trash can

“This is a story examining San Francisco’s bizarre pursuit of the perfect trash can: the time it has taken, the stunning amount of money being spent, and the baffling lack of curiosity on the part of many of San Francisco’s elected representatives and media observers in questioning the proposal by San Francisco Public Works to spend $427,500 to produce 15 prototype cans.”

posted by KatlaDragon at 6:52 PM on August 14, 2022 [2 favorites]

I have no problem with R&D spends on things like "the perfect trashcan."

But too often cities (egged on by lobbyists) want to reinvent the wheel. My city certainly does. Why go with the best off-the-shelf solution, or find a successful deployment in another city and copy it, when you could spend years on consultant fees and design competitions for things like trash cans, or benches, or (in Toronto's case) overengineered, way-too-expensive food carts.

And if it fails? Just wait a few years and start the cycle all over again.
posted by thecjm at 7:13 PM on August 14, 2022 [3 favorites]

At the very least, any comparison trial period should include existing designs.
posted by clew at 7:19 PM on August 14, 2022 [2 favorites]

The Mission Local story KatlaDragon linked mentions new fancy trial Seattle trash cans. I wondered which neighborhood got them, found an article - I walk through there regularly, I don’t remember them at all. Have I not recognized them because they don’t look like our slat cans?

The photo wraps are nice but I associate them with electrical housings, so I suspect the latter.
posted by clew at 8:02 PM on August 14, 2022 [1 favorite]

They absolutely did test existing designs; from TFA: "Last month, the city deployed 15 custom-made trash cans and 11 off-the-shelf trash cans..." But I think what we're seeing is a bunch of "we can do it better" syndrome, like the insanely expensive and complicated SF Bay Bridge eastern span design.
posted by meowzilla at 8:38 PM on August 14, 2022 [1 favorite]

Maybe a specific flavor of "we can do it better", viz., "we can engineer something that obviates maintenance and operations"?
posted by clew at 9:04 PM on August 14, 2022 [1 favorite]

This is unclear. They quote someone (Assemblyman Haney) as saying this has "the stench of corruption" and it implies the whole thing was started by Nuru (who was convicted of corruption.)

It's true that he wasn't convicted of corruption for this. But if your department is majorly corrupt the minor stuff is second nature.

The saga Haney is talking about is this one: Nuru, the corrupt Public Works head, was a huge fan of the old problematic trash cans and refused to consider alternatives, and it eventually came out that the company that made the old cans was jointly run by the family of one of the people that bribed Nuru.

The basic point here is that San Francisco is not a unique and special snowflake, it's trash can needs aren't wildly different from any other place in the world, and it can pick a good enough trash can out of a catalog and get on with things rather than turning new trash cans into a decade-long battle for the soul of the city and custom design competition. San Francisco is a city that loves to make easy things hard for no particular reason, and the trash can saga is a microcosm of a broader dysfunction with the delivery of government services.

Of course, San Francisco voted two years ago to split the workers that clean the streets off into their own department, separate from Public Works. The Mayor dragged her feet on implementing it, and now this November, the city will be voting again on whether to say nevermind and undo that decision, so the dysfunction continues...
posted by zachlipton at 9:11 PM on August 14, 2022 [1 favorite]

Could be worse. You could be Toronto.
posted by chrominance at 10:40 PM on August 14, 2022

There are photos of the six designs here

I hope they go with a design that

a) doesn't require pulling on a bin handle during a pandemic (Soft Square and Bear Saver both require pulling on a bin handle)

b) is a suitable height for wheelchair users (Wire Mesh is looking like the most wheelchair friendly design)
posted by carriage pulled by cassowaries at 1:48 AM on August 15, 2022 [2 favorites]

This post seems designed to provoke dissatisfaction with normal governmental operations. I am doubtful it is in good faith.
posted by DeepSeaHaggis at 1:53 AM on August 15, 2022 [3 favorites]

What takes years and costs $20K? A San Francisco trash can

Clickbait comes to MeFi.

(BTW, what's the current Favorite to USD exchange rate?
posted by fairmettle at 2:21 AM on August 15, 2022

It's like finding out that "Ernestine Kleenex" invented the Kleenex

Wait until you hear about Otto von Titzling, the Prussian civil engineer who invented the brassiere.
posted by acb at 3:38 AM on August 15, 2022 [4 favorites]

I think that the trashcan style used in a ton of places by my newly adopted country Netherlands is pretty rad. The receptacles look pretty typical, but they have huge underground bellies to ensure capacity. Video.
posted by lazaruslong at 7:37 AM on August 15, 2022 [4 favorites]

Officials say the current bins have too big a hole that allows for easy rummaging.

Not only is stopping people from rummaging ethically wrong, it's also a bad choice economically. Rummagers are doing part of the city's work for them, by partially emptying the trash cans and therefore making fewer pickups necessary over time. And it's the most effective form of recycling.
posted by Furnace of Doubt at 7:50 AM on August 15, 2022 [3 favorites]

If people rummaging are leaving giant piles of rubbish next to the bins, the problem isn't that rummaging is too easy, it's that it's too difficult. If the bin made it easier to rummage you wouldn't need to empty it to look through the contents. The harder it is to rummage, the more the need to pull the contents out to see what they are.

And likely the issue is just that the bins aren't being emptied enough, and/or there aren't enough of them. If bins are overflowing, give people more bin capacity, whether by installing more or by emptying them more frequently.
posted by Dysk at 9:30 AM on August 15, 2022 [2 favorites]

Even though I'm well aware of the economic realities, I just can't convey enough how depressed I am that hiring extra workers to empty the bins more often is a complete non-starter. I've both seen and been part of so many workforce reductions where some new bit of technology was supposed to offset the effects of understaffing, and the result is a worse end product or service every single time. But I guess the one percent and the Scrooge McDuck Corporation need their second gold-plated yacht to get to their fourth vacation home pretty badly. Much more than the workers who would spend their paychecks actually stimulating the economy. But, happy Labor Day weekend, I guess?
posted by The Underpants Monster at 9:41 AM on August 15, 2022 [7 favorites]

There are so many benefits of a supported, not-alienated operations-and-maintenance crew. They see everything, have a chance at catching disasters in the "huh that's funny" stage, can be proud of their locale in a way all the citizens can share, are Jacobsian eyes on the street. A virtuous cycle that false austerity keeps unwinding.

True austerity can’t afford to trash and replace everything, so pays attention to maintenance instead.
posted by clew at 9:56 AM on August 15, 2022 [4 favorites]

In some countries the bins have a shelf on the side for people to leave deposit-having receptacles.
posted by grahamparks at 10:00 AM on August 15, 2022 [2 favorites]

$20,900 DPW Trash Can Prototype Broken Already. Picture of one of the new cans with a panel having fallen off, revealing the ordinary black Recology bin inside.

It's impossible for me to understand this story outside the context of San Francisco dysfunction in general and specifically the ongoing FBI investigation into corruption at the Department of Public Works and other parts of our city government.
posted by Nelson at 10:25 AM on August 17, 2022 [2 favorites]

It would be cheaper to have the garbage cans dispense a nickel (or whatever the deposit is) each time trash is put it (in some irretrievable way), whether or not its a refundable can. Then they would stay clean around them. Of course, when there was no more trash, they'd get filled up with rocks and leaves and everything not nailed down. Maybe just a light sensor you could trigger with your hand, then it would be like basic income. Only resets after 30 seconds, that'd be $6 an hour. But then there would be no reason to put trash in them. In conclusion, there is no good solution that make people who are part of society and people on the outside happy at the same time.
posted by 445supermag at 12:36 PM on August 17, 2022