Advanced Wood
August 18, 2022 11:42 PM Subscribe
Stronger Than Steel, Able to Stop a Speeding Bullet—It's Super Wood! - "Simple processes can make wood tough, impact-resistant—or even transparent."
Liangbing Hu makes wood stronger than steel - "Hu studied carbon nanotubes for his PhD thesis. He was drawn to wood when he found that the structure and ion-transport capabilities of cellulose nanofibers are similar to those of carbon nanotubes while being sustainable and low cost."
Liangbing Hu makes wood stronger than steel - "Hu studied carbon nanotubes for his PhD thesis. He was drawn to wood when he found that the structure and ion-transport capabilities of cellulose nanofibers are similar to those of carbon nanotubes while being sustainable and low cost."
But cool research. Here in Norway, a combined wood/steel bridge fell down this week, and speculation is that the dissimilar properties of the wood and steel parts worked against each other when the temperature and humidity changed.
posted by Harald74 at 12:07 AM on August 19, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by Harald74 at 12:07 AM on August 19, 2022 [1 favorite]
The science behind making transparent wood is ! 🤯
*wild*
posted by Faintdreams at 1:56 AM on August 19, 2022 [3 favorites]
*wild*
posted by Faintdreams at 1:56 AM on August 19, 2022 [3 favorites]
Besides taking a star turn in buildings and vehicles, the substance could even be used to make bullet-resistant armor plates.
Priorities.
posted by BWA at 3:53 AM on August 19, 2022 [2 favorites]
Priorities.
posted by BWA at 3:53 AM on August 19, 2022 [2 favorites]
Wood is abundant and relatively low-cost—it literally grows on trees.
Slow down there, Scientific American. All of this technobabble is making me dizzy.
posted by Optamystic at 4:30 AM on August 19, 2022 [14 favorites]
Slow down there, Scientific American. All of this technobabble is making me dizzy.
posted by Optamystic at 4:30 AM on August 19, 2022 [14 favorites]
Wood is abundant and relatively low-cost—it literally grows on trees.
Do we really need another business reason to clear-cut diverse forests and plant spindly commercial monocultures of trees?
posted by Thorzdad at 4:48 AM on August 19, 2022 [9 favorites]
Do we really need another business reason to clear-cut diverse forests and plant spindly commercial monocultures of trees?
posted by Thorzdad at 4:48 AM on August 19, 2022 [9 favorites]
this is fascinating but my first question is how do you work with it? you can weld steel together, but how do you join two pieces of ultralumber
posted by dis_integration at 5:33 AM on August 19, 2022
posted by dis_integration at 5:33 AM on August 19, 2022
…. dovetail joints?
posted by heyitsgogi at 5:56 AM on August 19, 2022 [10 favorites]
posted by heyitsgogi at 5:56 AM on August 19, 2022 [10 favorites]
Strong, transparent. Hmm. Could you make a tank out of it, I wonder? One strong enough to hold a couple of whales?
Asking for a friend.
posted by Naberius at 6:25 AM on August 19, 2022 [36 favorites]
Asking for a friend.
posted by Naberius at 6:25 AM on August 19, 2022 [36 favorites]
Do we really need another business reason to clear-cut diverse forests and plant spindly commercial monocultures of trees?
This might not be true anymore but as of about 2010 the US grows more board feet of trees than it cuts down.
Now here is a technology that would allow us to stop using steel and aluminum constructions in TONS of building applications in favor of something that will sequester tons and tons of carbon and drive demand for wood up which I will wager would result in even more trees getting planted.
The diversity of the trees isn't going to make a lot of difference if global warming has killed us all.
So it sounds to me like the root problem is the clear cutting and not this technology. Maybe steel and aluminum mining are better for the environment but I kinda doubt it.
posted by VTX at 6:32 AM on August 19, 2022 [9 favorites]
This might not be true anymore but as of about 2010 the US grows more board feet of trees than it cuts down.
Now here is a technology that would allow us to stop using steel and aluminum constructions in TONS of building applications in favor of something that will sequester tons and tons of carbon and drive demand for wood up which I will wager would result in even more trees getting planted.
The diversity of the trees isn't going to make a lot of difference if global warming has killed us all.
So it sounds to me like the root problem is the clear cutting and not this technology. Maybe steel and aluminum mining are better for the environment but I kinda doubt it.
posted by VTX at 6:32 AM on August 19, 2022 [9 favorites]
Naberius, the 1st Cetacean Armored Division are merely allies of convenience, not our friends.
posted by zamboni at 6:32 AM on August 19, 2022 [9 favorites]
posted by zamboni at 6:32 AM on August 19, 2022 [9 favorites]
I don't know if transparent wood is a good idea. People will hurt themselves walking into invisible trees.
posted by Faint of Butt at 6:40 AM on August 19, 2022 [6 favorites]
posted by Faint of Butt at 6:40 AM on August 19, 2022 [6 favorites]
Transparent wood would have solved some embarrassing problems when I was thirteen... oh, you mean literal wood. Never mind, carry on.
posted by Halloween Jack at 7:09 AM on August 19, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by Halloween Jack at 7:09 AM on August 19, 2022 [3 favorites]
How do you join it?
Maybe friction welding!
posted by Acari at 7:31 AM on August 19, 2022 [3 favorites]
Maybe friction welding!
posted by Acari at 7:31 AM on August 19, 2022 [3 favorites]
Related: The hottest new thing in sustainable building is, uh, wood and Mass timber offers new hope for an old industry in the American West. These articles are about mass timber or engineered wood, modern materials made by laminating smaller pieces of wood together. From simple plywood to highly manufactured composites that work like steel I-beams in construction, it's increasingly being used in large building construction as a green alternative to concrete and steel. Not sure how much overlap there is with the compressed wood described here in this original link.
Do we really need another business reason to clear-cut diverse forests and plant spindly commercial monocultures of trees?
Yes! Unless you hate all farming, there's a lot to be said for fancy wood. First of all, these engineering techniques aren't using wood from "diverse forests"; they're all about using timber from planted, managed forests of soft fast growing wood. That does get you to spindly commercial monoculture forests. You know, farming. The wood itself is carbon neutral and the production of that wood is pretty efficient.
We need construction material from somewhere. The US has a massive housing shortage; you want people to have places to live, you have to build them out of something. Wood is lower impact than concrete or steel. Per the Vox article linked above "Roughly 11 percent of global greenhouse gas emissions come from building materials and construction; another 28 percent comes from building operations, which mostly involve energy". Cross-laminated timber is promising and "represents a 26.5% reduction in global warming potential."
If you want to get mad about this cool new thing look to the chemicals being used as resins and curing agents.
posted by Nelson at 7:37 AM on August 19, 2022 [9 favorites]
Do we really need another business reason to clear-cut diverse forests and plant spindly commercial monocultures of trees?
Yes! Unless you hate all farming, there's a lot to be said for fancy wood. First of all, these engineering techniques aren't using wood from "diverse forests"; they're all about using timber from planted, managed forests of soft fast growing wood. That does get you to spindly commercial monoculture forests. You know, farming. The wood itself is carbon neutral and the production of that wood is pretty efficient.
We need construction material from somewhere. The US has a massive housing shortage; you want people to have places to live, you have to build them out of something. Wood is lower impact than concrete or steel. Per the Vox article linked above "Roughly 11 percent of global greenhouse gas emissions come from building materials and construction; another 28 percent comes from building operations, which mostly involve energy". Cross-laminated timber is promising and "represents a 26.5% reduction in global warming potential."
If you want to get mad about this cool new thing look to the chemicals being used as resins and curing agents.
posted by Nelson at 7:37 AM on August 19, 2022 [9 favorites]
People will hurt themselves walking into invisible trees.
Well, we already knew that a lot of people can’t see the wood for the trees.
posted by zamboni at 7:53 AM on August 19, 2022 [3 favorites]
Well, we already knew that a lot of people can’t see the wood for the trees.
posted by zamboni at 7:53 AM on August 19, 2022 [3 favorites]
I like it when I find out about cool and hopeful stuff on Metafilter. :-)
posted by Don.Kinsayder at 8:14 AM on August 19, 2022 [6 favorites]
posted by Don.Kinsayder at 8:14 AM on August 19, 2022 [6 favorites]
If you want to get mad about this cool new thing look to the chemicals being used as resins and curing agents.
It sounds like this particular process doesn't use resins, just heat & pressure to form hydrogen bonds between cellulose fibers. Not sure that there's anything to get mad about here. (Although the sodium hydroxide step probably smells pretty bad.)
posted by echo target at 8:37 AM on August 19, 2022 [4 favorites]
It sounds like this particular process doesn't use resins, just heat & pressure to form hydrogen bonds between cellulose fibers. Not sure that there's anything to get mad about here. (Although the sodium hydroxide step probably smells pretty bad.)
posted by echo target at 8:37 AM on August 19, 2022 [4 favorites]
Mature forests are carbon neutral. Trees grow, but they also die and rot at the same rate, releasing exactly as much carbon into the atmosphere as they take out.
One of the more plausible carbon sequestration plans for a long time has been "use lots of sustainably harvested wood in new construction." Industrial processes that let us do more with wood are great.
Strong, transparent. Hmm. Could you make a tank out of it, I wonder? One strong enough to hold a couple of whales?
Asking for a friend.
I was going to make the transparent aluminum reference head on. Metafilter does it better faster.
Besides taking a star turn in buildings and vehicles, the substance could even be used to make bullet-resistant armor plates.
Priorities.
Talk to your DMs, folks. Druids can now wear full plate!
posted by mark k at 9:21 AM on August 19, 2022 [17 favorites]
One of the more plausible carbon sequestration plans for a long time has been "use lots of sustainably harvested wood in new construction." Industrial processes that let us do more with wood are great.
Strong, transparent. Hmm. Could you make a tank out of it, I wonder? One strong enough to hold a couple of whales?
Asking for a friend.
I was going to make the transparent aluminum reference head on. Metafilter does it better faster.
Besides taking a star turn in buildings and vehicles, the substance could even be used to make bullet-resistant armor plates.
Priorities.
Talk to your DMs, folks. Druids can now wear full plate!
posted by mark k at 9:21 AM on August 19, 2022 [17 favorites]
Wood 2.0. (You're welcome.)
posted by The Tensor at 9:38 AM on August 19, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by The Tensor at 9:38 AM on August 19, 2022 [1 favorite]
*photo of Nick Frost wearing a t-shirt that reads "I Got Advanced Wood"*
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 9:56 AM on August 19, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 9:56 AM on August 19, 2022 [3 favorites]
this is fascinating but my first question is how do you work with it? you can weld steel together, but how do you join two pieces of ultralumber
by using wooden nails, of course.
posted by Dr. Twist at 10:05 AM on August 19, 2022 [4 favorites]
by using wooden nails, of course.
posted by Dr. Twist at 10:05 AM on August 19, 2022 [4 favorites]
how do you join two pieces of ultralumber
Epoxy, mechanical fastners (screws, bolts, nails), glue, interlocking joints, binding are all options..
posted by Mitheral at 10:11 AM on August 19, 2022 [1 favorite]
Epoxy, mechanical fastners (screws, bolts, nails), glue, interlocking joints, binding are all options..
posted by Mitheral at 10:11 AM on August 19, 2022 [1 favorite]
Wood 2.0. (You're welcome.)
iWood, surely?
If you ask nicely...
posted by Naberius at 10:52 AM on August 19, 2022
iWood, surely?
If you ask nicely...
posted by Naberius at 10:52 AM on August 19, 2022
by using wooden nails, of course.
So you just stick them together?
posted by zamboni at 11:06 AM on August 19, 2022 [2 favorites]
So you just stick them together?
posted by zamboni at 11:06 AM on August 19, 2022 [2 favorites]
So you just stick them together?
any mechanical fastener would work, I just think those particular ones are super cool
posted by Dr. Twist at 11:20 AM on August 19, 2022 [1 favorite]
any mechanical fastener would work, I just think those particular ones are super cool
posted by Dr. Twist at 11:20 AM on August 19, 2022 [1 favorite]
Does it burn like old school wood?
posted by JohnnyGunn at 12:17 PM on August 19, 2022
posted by JohnnyGunn at 12:17 PM on August 19, 2022
Someday soon it might be possible to live in a home made almost completely from one of Earth’s most abundant and versatile building materials—from floors to rafters, walls to windows.
My land! An entirely wooden house, whatever will they think of next?
Srsly tho this article is really cool.
posted by Hypatia at 1:23 PM on August 19, 2022
My land! An entirely wooden house, whatever will they think of next?
Srsly tho this article is really cool.
posted by Hypatia at 1:23 PM on August 19, 2022
Is it fireproof?
posted by TWinbrook8 at 2:03 PM on August 19, 2022
posted by TWinbrook8 at 2:03 PM on August 19, 2022
I'm excited about the transparent wood! Partly admittedly for the shiny/wow/cool factor, and partly for all the practical reasons they describe (5x more thermally efficient than glass, made from a renewable resource, etc). But it relies on polyvinyl alcohol. Does anybody here know enough about organic chemistry to explain to me what the raw materials used to create PVA are? Wikipedia claims it doesn't require oil -- does it ultimately use some sort of biomass feedstock? Or something else?
posted by cnidaria at 2:25 PM on August 19, 2022
posted by cnidaria at 2:25 PM on August 19, 2022
As far as fireproof -- when I worked in construction we used glulam / crosslaminated timber. I wouldn't say it's fireproof, but there are ways to engineer various levels of fire resistance.
I would guess fire resistance based on thickness / charring works similarly in the ultrawood, but really, who knows? Would be curious to see some burn tests.
posted by cnidaria at 2:31 PM on August 19, 2022
I would guess fire resistance based on thickness / charring works similarly in the ultrawood, but really, who knows? Would be curious to see some burn tests.
posted by cnidaria at 2:31 PM on August 19, 2022
Read from the paragraph starting "In 1965"...
posted by Chef Flamboyardee at 3:15 PM on August 19, 2022
posted by Chef Flamboyardee at 3:15 PM on August 19, 2022
Engineered wood can have excellent fire resistant properties. From the Vox article I linked.
The thing is, large, solid, compressed masses of wood are actually quite difficult to ignite. (Hold a match up to a large log some time.) In the case of fire, the outer layer of mass timber will tend to char in a predictable way that effectively self-extinguishes and shields the interior, allowing it to retain structural integrity for several hours in even intense fire.posted by Nelson at 5:43 PM on August 19, 2022 [1 favorite]
Densified wood sounds fascinating.
But the "transparent wood" sounds like, basically, just a mixture of wood and plexiglas.
As for mass timber and fire: That is basically everyone's first concern about it. Turns out it actually has excellent fire resistance -- comparable to concrete construction.
posted by Artifice_Eternity at 5:59 PM on August 19, 2022
But the "transparent wood" sounds like, basically, just a mixture of wood and plexiglas.
As for mass timber and fire: That is basically everyone's first concern about it. Turns out it actually has excellent fire resistance -- comparable to concrete construction.
posted by Artifice_Eternity at 5:59 PM on August 19, 2022
The fun thing to think about is that you might be able to tear down old wooden structures, throw them into the chipper and crank out Advanced Wood.
posted by zengargoyle at 1:14 AM on August 20, 2022
posted by zengargoyle at 1:14 AM on August 20, 2022
I've heard of bamboo bikes that were decent in their overall weight, but were still overall heavier than steel, Ti, aluminum & carbon setups.
It'd be awesome if this New & Improved Super Ultra Hyper Wood could be even lighter than carbon, as springy as lightweight double-butted steel, with the durability of Ti, and with aluminum price points. BUT THEN ALSO BE TRANSPARENT, and when you ride against the sun, your bike looks like one of those deep-sea translucent creatures with bioluminescent properties (so then also make this hyper wood glow and sparkle, while we're at it).
posted by room9 at 6:49 AM on August 20, 2022 [2 favorites]
It'd be awesome if this New & Improved Super Ultra Hyper Wood could be even lighter than carbon, as springy as lightweight double-butted steel, with the durability of Ti, and with aluminum price points. BUT THEN ALSO BE TRANSPARENT, and when you ride against the sun, your bike looks like one of those deep-sea translucent creatures with bioluminescent properties (so then also make this hyper wood glow and sparkle, while we're at it).
posted by room9 at 6:49 AM on August 20, 2022 [2 favorites]
"Advanced wood" sounds like a not-very-inspired item in the technology tree of a strategy game.
posted by Harald74 at 7:44 AM on August 20, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by Harald74 at 7:44 AM on August 20, 2022 [1 favorite]
"transparent wood"
When mounting cover slips to a microscope slide, PVA is a major component of the "stuff" that fills in the space between the slip and the slide (then sealed with clear nail polish along the edges). Once dried, it has the same diffraction index as glass.
Dried PVA on its own is easily scratched. I'm assuming that the cellulose fibers are for providing structural strength (let a cheap flat toothpick sit in 10% bleach for a day or so - translucent fibers!). I'd extrapolate that the transparent wood would need to be sandwiched between two regular plates of glass in practice.
posted by porpoise at 10:26 AM on August 20, 2022
When mounting cover slips to a microscope slide, PVA is a major component of the "stuff" that fills in the space between the slip and the slide (then sealed with clear nail polish along the edges). Once dried, it has the same diffraction index as glass.
Dried PVA on its own is easily scratched. I'm assuming that the cellulose fibers are for providing structural strength (let a cheap flat toothpick sit in 10% bleach for a day or so - translucent fibers!). I'd extrapolate that the transparent wood would need to be sandwiched between two regular plates of glass in practice.
posted by porpoise at 10:26 AM on August 20, 2022
Sounds like a product that is promising enough to get bought up and hidden away forever by manufacturers of 'traditional' materials.
My only concern is, how do you cut and drill this superwood? Does it have to be moulded into the exact shape/size needed at the point of manufacture, or is it practical to produce in standard sizes and then build whatever you want from it?
posted by dg at 4:31 PM on August 21, 2022
My only concern is, how do you cut and drill this superwood? Does it have to be moulded into the exact shape/size needed at the point of manufacture, or is it practical to produce in standard sizes and then build whatever you want from it?
posted by dg at 4:31 PM on August 21, 2022
If we can machine (cut in very precise manners) refined super hard/ durable metal alloys, the challenges of working "superwood" are trivial.
It's not so much that manufactured wood is super-tough, its that their macro and meta (absolute cost, public opinion [carbon], niche areas of performance superiority) performance that makes it comparable and by some measures far more favourable to steel and concrete.
posted by porpoise at 6:34 PM on August 21, 2022
It's not so much that manufactured wood is super-tough, its that their macro and meta (absolute cost, public opinion [carbon], niche areas of performance superiority) performance that makes it comparable and by some measures far more favourable to steel and concrete.
posted by porpoise at 6:34 PM on August 21, 2022
Sorry, I should have been clearer. I'm wondering if it can be worked on site using tools that a carpenter would have available (or could obtain) for use on a building site or similar. Engineering tools such as waterjet cutters would be fine, but to be broadly useful in construction, a material needs to be cut outside a workshop environment.
posted by dg at 6:53 PM on August 21, 2022
posted by dg at 6:53 PM on August 21, 2022
We can drill and cut steel, concrete, fiberglass, assorted plastics etc. with battery operated tools. It is hard to imagine this material would be unworkable. Worst case if it was as hard as say case hardened steel it could be cut with abrasive cutting tools.
posted by Mitheral at 5:54 AM on August 22, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by Mitheral at 5:54 AM on August 22, 2022 [1 favorite]
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Me, trying to hide big pot of boiling sodium hydroxide on the stove: Nothing...
posted by Harald74 at 12:05 AM on August 19, 2022 [17 favorites]