Middle school boys made "pedo database" to expose creep teacher
September 10, 2022 8:11 AM Subscribe
The students thought their teacher at Davisville Middle School was a creep. They saw him leering at some girls, singling them out with pet nicknames, encouraging them to dance for him. The teacher said he’d weathered parents’ complaints for nearly 30 years, and there was nothing anyone could do to him. On Jan. 5, 2021, a small group of seventh-grade boys decided to stick up for the girls. They set up a subchannel on Discord, named it after the teacher, and called it the “Pedo Database.” “Post the [teacher’s] pedo moments and quotes here so we can get evidence,” one boy wrote. In April 2022, the teacher was escorted from the school. (Archive)
@Karnythia: The absolute trash you would need to be as a person to get 8 preteen & teen boys to be this dedicated to taking notes. Put him under the oubliette
posted by DirtyOldTown at 8:30 AM on September 10, 2022 [87 favorites]
posted by DirtyOldTown at 8:30 AM on September 10, 2022 [87 favorites]
Good kids.
posted by suelac at 8:39 AM on September 10, 2022 [12 favorites]
posted by suelac at 8:39 AM on September 10, 2022 [12 favorites]
The kids today are alright. I wish when I was in school we had the presence of mind and tenacity to do what these kids did.
I went to a Catholic school in the 80s, and while I'm unaware of any reports of abuse going on from the priests, there definitely was a coach who crossed the line and had been allowed to do so for well over a decade, not entirely unlike this dude at Davisville. He would regularly have certain boys sit on his lap during PE, and parents and teachers basically shrugged off the occasional reports -- they didn't even care when he came to school one Halloween in blackface as an NBA player and students complained about it.
In hindsight it was always boys from poor or immigrant families, or boys with discipline problems that he would have sit in his lap. As may have been predictable for a bunch of middle-school aged boys in the 80s, I'm not proud to say that our nickname for him was Coach Slur Against Gay Men Which Rhymed With His Name. It was an open secret and most of us were generally just happy that he didn't ask us to sit on his lap during PE. I personally made a point of getting him to dislike me, and most of us generally made a point of wearing our PE shorts under the uniform-designated dark corduroys on PE days, for fairly obvious reasons.
Much later, I only heard it second hand, but apparently he was finally fired when he refused to leave the room the boys were changing in, and was supposedly leering at one of the popular boys from a wealthier family.
posted by tclark at 8:42 AM on September 10, 2022 [3 favorites]
I went to a Catholic school in the 80s, and while I'm unaware of any reports of abuse going on from the priests, there definitely was a coach who crossed the line and had been allowed to do so for well over a decade, not entirely unlike this dude at Davisville. He would regularly have certain boys sit on his lap during PE, and parents and teachers basically shrugged off the occasional reports -- they didn't even care when he came to school one Halloween in blackface as an NBA player and students complained about it.
In hindsight it was always boys from poor or immigrant families, or boys with discipline problems that he would have sit in his lap. As may have been predictable for a bunch of middle-school aged boys in the 80s, I'm not proud to say that our nickname for him was Coach Slur Against Gay Men Which Rhymed With His Name. It was an open secret and most of us were generally just happy that he didn't ask us to sit on his lap during PE. I personally made a point of getting him to dislike me, and most of us generally made a point of wearing our PE shorts under the uniform-designated dark corduroys on PE days, for fairly obvious reasons.
Much later, I only heard it second hand, but apparently he was finally fired when he refused to leave the room the boys were changing in, and was supposedly leering at one of the popular boys from a wealthier family.
posted by tclark at 8:42 AM on September 10, 2022 [3 favorites]
There's a reason this kind of thing usually takes decades to come out - they're children, they have no experience to contrast with as normal. If they're picking up the red flags - wtf were the adults?
Good kids, they shouldn't have had to do this. They deserve better.
they didn't even care when he came to school one Halloween in blackface as an NBA player and students complained about it.
What?
posted by adept256 at 8:50 AM on September 10, 2022 [26 favorites]
Good kids, they shouldn't have had to do this. They deserve better.
they didn't even care when he came to school one Halloween in blackface as an NBA player and students complained about it.
What?
posted by adept256 at 8:50 AM on September 10, 2022 [26 favorites]
Yeah, we had one of these guys in my high school in the 80's who thought nobody could/would do anything about it, and he was right. Kids complained to the principal and the various admin enablers, but of course they just blew it off.
posted by Sing Or Swim at 8:52 AM on September 10, 2022 [8 favorites]
posted by Sing Or Swim at 8:52 AM on September 10, 2022 [8 favorites]
We also had a couple of these teachers at my high school. Like the girls in this story, we tended to blow it off -- I remember laughing at it, as though we were in on the "joke". The difference is that at my school the boys followed our lead. Props to these kids for actually doing something about it.
posted by goodbyewaffles at 8:57 AM on September 10, 2022 [10 favorites]
posted by goodbyewaffles at 8:57 AM on September 10, 2022 [10 favorites]
Hey, Teacher! Got you on my phone! (sing as per Pink Floyd)
posted by Slackermagee at 8:59 AM on September 10, 2022 [15 favorites]
posted by Slackermagee at 8:59 AM on September 10, 2022 [15 favorites]
This is great. Kids these days are smarter and know more than they used to, even though that's for bad reasons. If the teens in my junior high could have compiled a database, it would be to prove that somebody was a huge gaywad.
Naturally someone will already have asked what happens when the kids are wrong about a teacher, or actively malicious, which will probably lead to school rules about having private Discords or Google Docs (which I think some do already).
posted by Countess Elena at 9:05 AM on September 10, 2022 [7 favorites]
Naturally someone will already have asked what happens when the kids are wrong about a teacher, or actively malicious, which will probably lead to school rules about having private Discords or Google Docs (which I think some do already).
posted by Countess Elena at 9:05 AM on September 10, 2022 [7 favorites]
There was a local case at one of our top public high schools where the teacher had dozens of complaints over 30 years, and it was only in 2020 when the media started investigating in light of me too, that the school finally did something. When I went to search for that story, I saw that there were at case at two local prestigious private schools.
posted by CostcoCultist at 9:15 AM on September 10, 2022 [3 favorites]
One other school abuse story I heard from my uncle who went to catholic school in the early 1960s. There was a priest who seemed to be picking on one boy in particular, inapproaite touching, asking him to stay after class. Etc. The other boys decided to do something about it and lured the teacher/priest under that bleachers on day and after giving a secret beating told the priest to never touch anyone again
posted by CostcoCultist at 9:22 AM on September 10, 2022 [19 favorites]
posted by CostcoCultist at 9:22 AM on September 10, 2022 [19 favorites]
which will probably lead to school rules about having private Discords or Google Docs (which I think some do already).
Or, when mandatory age verification is legislated (already in the pipeline in the UK and California, and being discussed in Australia), sites allowing minors to hold accounts will have to give adults in a position of authority over them access.
posted by acb at 9:24 AM on September 10, 2022 [6 favorites]
Or, when mandatory age verification is legislated (already in the pipeline in the UK and California, and being discussed in Australia), sites allowing minors to hold accounts will have to give adults in a position of authority over them access.
posted by acb at 9:24 AM on September 10, 2022 [6 favorites]
I hate that online stuff makes me question the story in a kneejerk way because "pedo" is so often misused... sounds like it's used correctly here.
We had a teacher like this at my high school too. In charge of the ski club, would only ever bring girls with him on trips and no female chaperones (which wouldn't fly today, not in the school district I'm working in anyway).
It only came to a head when he got caught dating a student (15 at the time) and was fired. They got married a year later, as far as I know they're still together.
posted by subdee at 9:36 AM on September 10, 2022 [1 favorite]
We had a teacher like this at my high school too. In charge of the ski club, would only ever bring girls with him on trips and no female chaperones (which wouldn't fly today, not in the school district I'm working in anyway).
It only came to a head when he got caught dating a student (15 at the time) and was fired. They got married a year later, as far as I know they're still together.
posted by subdee at 9:36 AM on September 10, 2022 [1 favorite]
This is so great.
When people say, "Raise your boys to be anti sexist," this is what they mean.
When people say, "Men have to take responsibility for violence against women," this is what they mean.
When people say, "We focus so much on how many women get raped. Lets focus on how many men are rapists," this is what they mean.
When people say, "Parents need to talk to their boys about sexual violence, consent, and respect," this is what they mean.
This story gives me hope for the future. These kids rocked. They looked out for they friends. They recognized sexist violence, they were disgusted by it, and they did something about it. These are the kinds of kids we need to be raising in the world today.
posted by Winnie the Proust at 9:41 AM on September 10, 2022 [166 favorites]
When people say, "Raise your boys to be anti sexist," this is what they mean.
When people say, "Men have to take responsibility for violence against women," this is what they mean.
When people say, "We focus so much on how many women get raped. Lets focus on how many men are rapists," this is what they mean.
When people say, "Parents need to talk to their boys about sexual violence, consent, and respect," this is what they mean.
This story gives me hope for the future. These kids rocked. They looked out for they friends. They recognized sexist violence, they were disgusted by it, and they did something about it. These are the kinds of kids we need to be raising in the world today.
posted by Winnie the Proust at 9:41 AM on September 10, 2022 [166 favorites]
I am especially heartened that it was a group of boys who had the empathy to identify the problem, the sense to realize that they might be taken more seriously, and the determination and organization to document. Maybe they should get extra credit for Civics.....
(And, yes, I get that this is something that could go really wrong, but, in this case, it doesn't seem to have.)
posted by GenjiandProust at 9:50 AM on September 10, 2022 [12 favorites]
(And, yes, I get that this is something that could go really wrong, but, in this case, it doesn't seem to have.)
posted by GenjiandProust at 9:50 AM on September 10, 2022 [12 favorites]
A teacher at my kid's high school was removed just before classes started this summer. My older kids, all alumni, universally agreed that he was a pedo creep and everyone watched each other around him, while he leered and peeked.
At my (expensive private Catholic) high school in the late 1980s, the popular calculus teacher was also a coach of girls sports -- and a total creeper. I understand he had his office off the girls locker room, with a window.
Kids know. It's up to adults to listen.
posted by wenestvedt at 9:51 AM on September 10, 2022 [18 favorites]
At my (expensive private Catholic) high school in the late 1980s, the popular calculus teacher was also a coach of girls sports -- and a total creeper. I understand he had his office off the girls locker room, with a window.
Kids know. It's up to adults to listen.
posted by wenestvedt at 9:51 AM on September 10, 2022 [18 favorites]
I'm really heartened by reading this in the article:
They had tried talking to adults about what they heard and saw. None of the adults listened or took them seriously, the student told the Globe. It made the boys uncomfortable to see the girls in their class struggling to deal with their teacher flirting with them.
“Sometimes they’d laugh. Sometimes they just kind of just sit there awkwardly,” the boy recalled. “Even the ones that said he was ‘creepy’ laughed, because they were obviously not trying to tick him off or anything. So they’re just fake laughing, awkwardly laughing.”
“Other students noticed it too,” the boy added.
Because I heard all my life how things like this just weren't noticed by boys or men. "I've never seen it so it can't be true," is something I've heard variations of many times by all sorts of people, including women of course. But, it's easy for me to see. It's easy for me to see the shifting discomfort, the awkwardness, the rigid posture when someone is coming in too close, the backwards leaning hug. It would drive me mad to have folks say, "I just don't see it." I bet it only took one boy saying, "I see that. That's gross. I see the signals she is giving off; it's not a mystery, let's help." It's the whole emperor's clothes, suddenly everyone can see if if the right peer recognizes it and encourages the community to see it, too. It would have likely been much harder for the girls to be taken seriously.
posted by amanda at 10:06 AM on September 10, 2022 [74 favorites]
They had tried talking to adults about what they heard and saw. None of the adults listened or took them seriously, the student told the Globe. It made the boys uncomfortable to see the girls in their class struggling to deal with their teacher flirting with them.
“Sometimes they’d laugh. Sometimes they just kind of just sit there awkwardly,” the boy recalled. “Even the ones that said he was ‘creepy’ laughed, because they were obviously not trying to tick him off or anything. So they’re just fake laughing, awkwardly laughing.”
“Other students noticed it too,” the boy added.
Because I heard all my life how things like this just weren't noticed by boys or men. "I've never seen it so it can't be true," is something I've heard variations of many times by all sorts of people, including women of course. But, it's easy for me to see. It's easy for me to see the shifting discomfort, the awkwardness, the rigid posture when someone is coming in too close, the backwards leaning hug. It would drive me mad to have folks say, "I just don't see it." I bet it only took one boy saying, "I see that. That's gross. I see the signals she is giving off; it's not a mystery, let's help." It's the whole emperor's clothes, suddenly everyone can see if if the right peer recognizes it and encourages the community to see it, too. It would have likely been much harder for the girls to be taken seriously.
posted by amanda at 10:06 AM on September 10, 2022 [74 favorites]
At my UK boys school during the 1979 general election they ran a mock election that was rather tedious except for the banned candidate for the KILL THE ***** PARTY - the asterixes replacing the name of a teacher who was well known for being handsy with cute blonde boys unless they were over the age of twelve or so.
Officially the Tory candidate won. In reality the KT* candidate won in a landslide with write-in votes. That teacher was gone inside a month.
posted by thatwhichfalls at 10:35 AM on September 10, 2022 [12 favorites]
Officially the Tory candidate won. In reality the KT* candidate won in a landslide with write-in votes. That teacher was gone inside a month.
posted by thatwhichfalls at 10:35 AM on September 10, 2022 [12 favorites]
In the 80s, in Chile, the 'spiritual director' of my high-school was a priest known as 'el Cura Tato'. I never met him, because 3rd generation atheist, but he was my classmate's religion teacher. He was also in charge of a half-dozen upper-class private schools.
My classmates described him as charismatic and funny.
He got a fifteen year old private-school student pregnant, so the Catholic Church decided to send him as a missionary to Costa Rica and Honduras, then when he returned they sent him to work in a parish in a poor part of town, where kids had less social capital and would be less likely to be believed than in my own, fancier part of town.
A few years later, however, it came to a head as he was accused of rape and molestation by ten girls, including an eleven year old.
So, the Catholic Church sent him back to Honduras, of course.
He was jailed on his return, and was the first priest in Chile to be processed for sexual acts and rape, in 2005.
He was sentenced to twelve years in jail, but got out two years early on 'good conduct', and died a year later in his father's house in an upper-class beach town.
posted by signal at 11:08 AM on September 10, 2022 [19 favorites]
My classmates described him as charismatic and funny.
He got a fifteen year old private-school student pregnant, so the Catholic Church decided to send him as a missionary to Costa Rica and Honduras, then when he returned they sent him to work in a parish in a poor part of town, where kids had less social capital and would be less likely to be believed than in my own, fancier part of town.
A few years later, however, it came to a head as he was accused of rape and molestation by ten girls, including an eleven year old.
So, the Catholic Church sent him back to Honduras, of course.
He was jailed on his return, and was the first priest in Chile to be processed for sexual acts and rape, in 2005.
He was sentenced to twelve years in jail, but got out two years early on 'good conduct', and died a year later in his father's house in an upper-class beach town.
posted by signal at 11:08 AM on September 10, 2022 [19 favorites]
Three things that struck me about this story, two depressing ones and one big hopeful one.
First, that this was decades of parents, teachers and other authority figures not listening to children about a sex pest.
Second that in the Twitter threads (and here!) I saw this story in, so many other people had memories about similar situations and not being believed. I know I immediately flashed back to the chemistry teacher I had in high school who was a bit too fond of leaning over girls' backs.
But third, that it was the boys who a) both saw the distress he caused to the girls in their class and b) decided to do something about it.
That's such a ray of hope in such a dark situation.
posted by MartinWisse at 11:11 AM on September 10, 2022 [37 favorites]
First, that this was decades of parents, teachers and other authority figures not listening to children about a sex pest.
Second that in the Twitter threads (and here!) I saw this story in, so many other people had memories about similar situations and not being believed. I know I immediately flashed back to the chemistry teacher I had in high school who was a bit too fond of leaning over girls' backs.
But third, that it was the boys who a) both saw the distress he caused to the girls in their class and b) decided to do something about it.
That's such a ray of hope in such a dark situation.
posted by MartinWisse at 11:11 AM on September 10, 2022 [37 favorites]
So many of us have similar memories if teachers who were inappropriate or worse.
Mr. H who did swimsuit inspections
Mr. S who sat the pretty girls in the front row so he could look down their shirts
Mr. F who was rewarding a middle school athlete with sex for good results
Mr. F who dated a student
and so on. I’ve forgotten so many - I graduated high school decades ago.
As a kid, we just told each other who to avoid. As adults, let’s listen to these kids/young adults and stop these people.
posted by sciencegeek at 11:13 AM on September 10, 2022 [6 favorites]
Mr. H who did swimsuit inspections
Mr. S who sat the pretty girls in the front row so he could look down their shirts
Mr. F who was rewarding a middle school athlete with sex for good results
Mr. F who dated a student
and so on. I’ve forgotten so many - I graduated high school decades ago.
As a kid, we just told each other who to avoid. As adults, let’s listen to these kids/young adults and stop these people.
posted by sciencegeek at 11:13 AM on September 10, 2022 [6 favorites]
This is so encouraging.
In grades 6 to 8 I was sent out of class 60% of the time. Sometimes just outside, sometimes up to the school psychology office, and sometimes to wherever my math teacher was at that time of the day (this is why I loved math). But always before I had even said one word.
My offence was pointing out that our teacher in biology, geography and something else I forget was a creep. It was so obvious that a group of girls in class made a song about it and performed it in front of teachers and parents. I don't really know why I got the blame for that, since I was really not the main driver. That teacher had an affair with a 15 year old in our school, and no one worried. This was in the 1970s. Eventually he did get fired, but not prosecuted.
But to this day, the boys (who are obviously now old adults) deny everything. It is infuriating. Some of my best friends saw this happening close up, including the thing with the 15-year old (we were younger), and still they claim we girls were imagining stuff.
The pedo-teacher was very popular among the boys, and I'll admit that he was great at arranging really good stuff, like several canoeing camp experiences that combined the curricula from his different classes. But also let him get close to vulnerable girls far away from school and parents.
I was absolutely vulnerable, but luckily not in a way that worked for him.
posted by mumimor at 11:19 AM on September 10, 2022 [4 favorites]
In grades 6 to 8 I was sent out of class 60% of the time. Sometimes just outside, sometimes up to the school psychology office, and sometimes to wherever my math teacher was at that time of the day (this is why I loved math). But always before I had even said one word.
My offence was pointing out that our teacher in biology, geography and something else I forget was a creep. It was so obvious that a group of girls in class made a song about it and performed it in front of teachers and parents. I don't really know why I got the blame for that, since I was really not the main driver. That teacher had an affair with a 15 year old in our school, and no one worried. This was in the 1970s. Eventually he did get fired, but not prosecuted.
But to this day, the boys (who are obviously now old adults) deny everything. It is infuriating. Some of my best friends saw this happening close up, including the thing with the 15-year old (we were younger), and still they claim we girls were imagining stuff.
The pedo-teacher was very popular among the boys, and I'll admit that he was great at arranging really good stuff, like several canoeing camp experiences that combined the curricula from his different classes. But also let him get close to vulnerable girls far away from school and parents.
I was absolutely vulnerable, but luckily not in a way that worked for him.
posted by mumimor at 11:19 AM on September 10, 2022 [4 favorites]
they didn't even care when he came to school one Halloween in blackface as an NBA player and students complained about it.
What?
It was the 80s, and a mostly-white suburban city which still had an active chapter of the John Birch society, but even then while my cohort had no problem throwing around homophobic slurs, a bunch of fellow students made a stink about a teacher in blackface on Halloween.
posted by tclark at 11:23 AM on September 10, 2022 [2 favorites]
What?
It was the 80s, and a mostly-white suburban city which still had an active chapter of the John Birch society, but even then while my cohort had no problem throwing around homophobic slurs, a bunch of fellow students made a stink about a teacher in blackface on Halloween.
posted by tclark at 11:23 AM on September 10, 2022 [2 favorites]
Ours was an English teacher so he was captivating in the way of Dead Poet's Society and every stereotype of English and Philosophy teachers/profs. But we were 8th grade girls so he was keen. He told my mom during a parent-teacher conference that I might have a psychiatric disorder because sometimes I wore makeup and got all dressed up and sometimes I wore sweats to school. My mom, a teacher in the same district, who was totally creeped out by him because SHE was not an 8th grade girl anymore and did go speak to the kinds of people you speak to about these sorts of things, explained to him that 8th grade girls are working at finding their personalities, thanks, and basically told him to fuck off.
posted by atomicstone at 11:32 AM on September 10, 2022 [19 favorites]
posted by atomicstone at 11:32 AM on September 10, 2022 [19 favorites]
I'm fully in on "this is a good and appropriate thing" while simultaneously dreading the inevitable right-wing trumpeting of this story in service of their agenda to associate teaching with pedophilia and further discourage good people from entering the profession. Around three-quarters of teachers in Texas are already interested in quitting. So, "rah rah" but also "ugh."
posted by Pater Aletheias at 11:33 AM on September 10, 2022 [7 favorites]
posted by Pater Aletheias at 11:33 AM on September 10, 2022 [7 favorites]
Good for them.
I wrestled in high school and my dad told me to "be careful" around the wrestling coaches. I'm not sure what happened to him, but the coaches I had were fine.
A particular football coach, not so much. The line coach for freshman and JV had a reputation. He *really* liked to play quarterback and show the center how tight that ball needed to be tucked up in there during the snap. I say that as someone who was as far from a lineman as can be. It was an open secret, all the players knew it, and no one wanted to be around him. So there's no way the rest of the coaches didn't know it and no way the administration didn't know it. It was a "joke" around the entire high school of 350+ kids.
posted by ryoshu at 11:43 AM on September 10, 2022 [3 favorites]
I wrestled in high school and my dad told me to "be careful" around the wrestling coaches. I'm not sure what happened to him, but the coaches I had were fine.
A particular football coach, not so much. The line coach for freshman and JV had a reputation. He *really* liked to play quarterback and show the center how tight that ball needed to be tucked up in there during the snap. I say that as someone who was as far from a lineman as can be. It was an open secret, all the players knew it, and no one wanted to be around him. So there's no way the rest of the coaches didn't know it and no way the administration didn't know it. It was a "joke" around the entire high school of 350+ kids.
posted by ryoshu at 11:43 AM on September 10, 2022 [3 favorites]
Ours was an English teacher so he was captivating in the way of Dead Poet's Society and every stereotype of English and Philosophy teachers/profs. But we were 8th grade girls so he was keen.
We had one who desperately wanted to be captivating in that way, but very much was not. He threw a tantrum in class when our class said that Dead Poet's Society was kind of dumb.
posted by Blue Jello Elf at 11:45 AM on September 10, 2022 [7 favorites]
We had one who desperately wanted to be captivating in that way, but very much was not. He threw a tantrum in class when our class said that Dead Poet's Society was kind of dumb.
posted by Blue Jello Elf at 11:45 AM on September 10, 2022 [7 favorites]
YOU HAVE GOT TO BE KIDDING ME
The teacher was suspended because a GIRL's family got a lawyer and said they were going to seek a restraining order.
What these boys did was great, but how in hell are they the focus of the article? They turned over their evidence AFTER a girl took action.
posted by medusa at 11:47 AM on September 10, 2022 [34 favorites]
The teacher was suspended because a GIRL's family got a lawyer and said they were going to seek a restraining order.
What these boys did was great, but how in hell are they the focus of the article? They turned over their evidence AFTER a girl took action.
posted by medusa at 11:47 AM on September 10, 2022 [34 favorites]
I'd bet good money that the collective institutional histories of secondary schools covering up sexual assault of students by teachers is comparable to that of religious institutions.
No doubt that the largest and most powerful sects, such as the Catholic Church, outpace the schools by a significant margin. Still, many of the most salient factors exist: access, authority and public trust, bureaucracy and institutional defense.
I don't mean to cast aspersions against schools, especially public schools — I support them wholeheartedly. Rather, I think it's important to recognize that sexual assault against children has a modus operandi that appears again and again in various social environments and institutions (including the family!) and the ways in which it's socially/institutionally enabled and protected also take similar shapes.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 11:48 AM on September 10, 2022 [13 favorites]
No doubt that the largest and most powerful sects, such as the Catholic Church, outpace the schools by a significant margin. Still, many of the most salient factors exist: access, authority and public trust, bureaucracy and institutional defense.
I don't mean to cast aspersions against schools, especially public schools — I support them wholeheartedly. Rather, I think it's important to recognize that sexual assault against children has a modus operandi that appears again and again in various social environments and institutions (including the family!) and the ways in which it's socially/institutionally enabled and protected also take similar shapes.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 11:48 AM on September 10, 2022 [13 favorites]
Interim Superintendent Michael Waterman announced that he had placed a teacher on leave and was launching an investigation into allegations that the teacher had stalked a pre-teen girl at the middle school while he was her coach, and had been inappropriate with other girls.
The accusations were made by lawyer Timothy J. Conlon, who is representing the girl’s family and is also representing former athletes at North Kingstown High School who have accused former coach Aaron Thomas of conducting naked “fat tests” on teenage athletes.
The middle school girl’s family had complained to the previous superintendent, but it wasn’t until they threatened to get a restraining order that the teacher was made to stop coaching middle schoolers in North Kingstown.
WHAT THE ACTUAL FUCK
posted by medusa at 11:53 AM on September 10, 2022 [12 favorites]
The accusations were made by lawyer Timothy J. Conlon, who is representing the girl’s family and is also representing former athletes at North Kingstown High School who have accused former coach Aaron Thomas of conducting naked “fat tests” on teenage athletes.
The middle school girl’s family had complained to the previous superintendent, but it wasn’t until they threatened to get a restraining order that the teacher was made to stop coaching middle schoolers in North Kingstown.
WHAT THE ACTUAL FUCK
posted by medusa at 11:53 AM on September 10, 2022 [12 favorites]
We had a teacher like this at my high school too.
Mine also. He thought he was cool, but most of us thought he was a jerk. He actually got a girl in trouble (and didn't lose his job) but that was the early 1970s. My class has a reunion coming up, and he's had the nerve to attend some of them, previously. Since he was never my teacher, I just ignore him.
posted by Rash at 12:00 PM on September 10, 2022 [1 favorite]
Mine also. He thought he was cool, but most of us thought he was a jerk. He actually got a girl in trouble (and didn't lose his job) but that was the early 1970s. My class has a reunion coming up, and he's had the nerve to attend some of them, previously. Since he was never my teacher, I just ignore him.
posted by Rash at 12:00 PM on September 10, 2022 [1 favorite]
Those are great kids and what they did was very good, but this part stuck out: They saw him treating boys with contempt, and sometimes cruelty.
If he’d been friendly and cool to the boys, I’m not convinced we’d be hearing about this story. Too many missing stairs are ignored because the creep in question is a good guy around other guys.
posted by Orange Dinosaur Slide at 12:13 PM on September 10, 2022 [39 favorites]
If he’d been friendly and cool to the boys, I’m not convinced we’d be hearing about this story. Too many missing stairs are ignored because the creep in question is a good guy around other guys.
posted by Orange Dinosaur Slide at 12:13 PM on September 10, 2022 [39 favorites]
The one I'm talking about, I won't say his name bc I don't know if he ever went beyond inappropriate contact, but he died of a heart attack at 54, way too young and was lauded as the most amazing kind of teacher, the one who really connects with students, touched their souls. I'm an Ashkenazi Jewish person, but he identified as Mexican American and used it in his teaching and relating to students and his obits lauded him for it. So......yuck
posted by atomicstone at 12:28 PM on September 10, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by atomicstone at 12:28 PM on September 10, 2022 [2 favorites]
Mid 70s, psychology teacher who wanted you to call him by is first name. Ironically, he was from Amarillo, and liked to talk about the Cadillac Ranch and Stanley Marsh, the millionaire helium and natural gas producer who eventually was convicted of indecency with a child. He was fired when he married the hottest girl in the school after she graduated, who was in my class. He was charming and fun and his class was a blast.
posted by Bee'sWing at 12:39 PM on September 10, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by Bee'sWing at 12:39 PM on September 10, 2022 [1 favorite]
Hard for me not to compare this list compiled by boys that's getting good publicity with the Shitty Media Men list crowdsourced by Moira Donegan that set off Me Too. I know there are differences but we believe pubescent boys (as we should!) and adult women, not so much.
posted by gentlyepigrams at 12:42 PM on September 10, 2022 [13 favorites]
posted by gentlyepigrams at 12:42 PM on September 10, 2022 [13 favorites]
“It only came to a head when he got caught dating a student (15 at the time) and was fired.”
Part of the problem that still persists is calling adults engaging in sexual activity with children (15!!) “dating”. He was sexually abusing her.
posted by MisantropicPainforest at 12:45 PM on September 10, 2022 [24 favorites]
Part of the problem that still persists is calling adults engaging in sexual activity with children (15!!) “dating”. He was sexually abusing her.
posted by MisantropicPainforest at 12:45 PM on September 10, 2022 [24 favorites]
>What these boys did was great, but how in hell are they the focus of the article?
Because an unnamed girl's complaint against an unnamed teacher leading to his suspension is, (as an individual situation) not remarkable or particularly interesting to anybody outside of the town. A group of boys from the school taking personal action because they see a problem the adults aren't taking seriously IS remarkable.
posted by WaylandSmith at 12:56 PM on September 10, 2022 [26 favorites]
Because an unnamed girl's complaint against an unnamed teacher leading to his suspension is, (as an individual situation) not remarkable or particularly interesting to anybody outside of the town. A group of boys from the school taking personal action because they see a problem the adults aren't taking seriously IS remarkable.
posted by WaylandSmith at 12:56 PM on September 10, 2022 [26 favorites]
Back in the mid ‘60s, I was in a 4 - 6 elementary school. It was either in 4th or 5th grade, the teacher for the afternoon science class had arranged the students in their desks with all the girls in front surrounding his desk. He liked to call on the girls with questions. We all thought this was weird. About half way through the school year he called one of the girls up to his desk and sat her on his lap. In a very short time, in our first period class, our teacher there told us that later that morning each of us had to go to the office, just for some questions. As kids went and came back, each was real quiet about what was happening. My turn came, I went to the office and was met by this woman who I had never seen before. She took me to an office in the back where sat a guy in a suit. He was introduced as Officer Johnson of the police. He started asking me some open ended questions about the science teacher. I described the sitting arrangements, his only interest in talking to the girls, lap sitting, etc. That afternoon there was a substitute teacher for science. During lunch we had been now talking about the questions. One girl had heard that he had put his hand up a girl’s dress while sitting on his lap. That girl went home, told her parents, they called the police. We never heard of the fate of the teacher, but he was gone. Quick work. About ten years later, in the newspaper, I saw his name in an article. He was a judge in a dog show. He was a terrible science teacher, science was my favorite subject.
posted by njohnson23 at 1:08 PM on September 10, 2022 [12 favorites]
posted by njohnson23 at 1:08 PM on September 10, 2022 [12 favorites]
I'm impressed by the boys, and I also respect the decades of work it took for the accusation to be taken seriously.
posted by Nancy Lebovitz at 1:36 PM on September 10, 2022 [6 favorites]
posted by Nancy Lebovitz at 1:36 PM on September 10, 2022 [6 favorites]
This is pure skepticism, and I know nothing about the facts of the situation. But I have kids a little older than the ones in this story, and it seems very surprising to me that a group of kids who organized to do something like this would be single-sex — most biggish friend groups (say, groups bigger than three or so) are mixed sex in my experience of kids these days, and particularly in this context I’d expect kids to be conscious about making the group mixed-sex for the obvious reasons.
I’m doubting the Globe’s reporting with no specific basis for the doubt here, but I am wondering if the reporter thought “a group of boys and only boys did a good thing” was a good story, and found the facts they wanted to find.
posted by LizardBreath at 2:03 PM on September 10, 2022 [6 favorites]
I’m doubting the Globe’s reporting with no specific basis for the doubt here, but I am wondering if the reporter thought “a group of boys and only boys did a good thing” was a good story, and found the facts they wanted to find.
posted by LizardBreath at 2:03 PM on September 10, 2022 [6 favorites]
But third, that it was the boys who a) both saw the distress he caused to the girls in their class and b) decided to do something about it.
Yes. They called it the "pedo database," but what they were doing was compiling a log of incidents, which is exactly what anyone who's being harassed or stalked is told to do. The log helps things that might seem small and innocuous in isolation take their place in a pattern of behavior.
posted by Well I never at 2:49 PM on September 10, 2022 [10 favorites]
Yes. They called it the "pedo database," but what they were doing was compiling a log of incidents, which is exactly what anyone who's being harassed or stalked is told to do. The log helps things that might seem small and innocuous in isolation take their place in a pattern of behavior.
posted by Well I never at 2:49 PM on September 10, 2022 [10 favorites]
Would it be plausible for school-aged boys and girls to share the same Discord instance, or would each sex regard the other as gross/having cooties and/or being weird/problematic? I'm imagining kids' Discord instances to work like treehouses/clubhouses did in generations who played outdoors.
posted by acb at 2:56 PM on September 10, 2022
posted by acb at 2:56 PM on September 10, 2022
I obviously don’t know all middle-school-age kids in the country, but that was my point above — that in my experience of Kids These Days they generally don’t segregate socially like that, and particularly the kind of kids who would take a problem like this seriously don’t.
But maybe I’m wrong, and overgeneralizing from the school my kids went to.
posted by LizardBreath at 3:12 PM on September 10, 2022
But maybe I’m wrong, and overgeneralizing from the school my kids went to.
posted by LizardBreath at 3:12 PM on September 10, 2022
There was at least one at my high school, but the yearbook advisor once sent me on an errand to his office to retrieve a pen from a drawer in his desk, which was where I discovered the contact sheets of student photos and a tube of lube. His reputation for being skeevy and handsy was so widely known that girls on the yearbook staff with me would call me to come to campus at night so they didn't have to be alone with him. I made a lot of 7-Eleven and Burger King runs after dinner.
posted by emelenjr at 3:13 PM on September 10, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by emelenjr at 3:13 PM on September 10, 2022 [1 favorite]
As an extra extra comment, I was in 8th grade in...1994, so this shit wasn't ancient history and we KNEW BETTER ALREADY.
posted by atomicstone at 5:17 PM on September 10, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by atomicstone at 5:17 PM on September 10, 2022 [3 favorites]
My dad was a kid in the 1930s-1940s. His parents didn’t prevent him and my aunt from having friends outside their religion, but they did tell them that if they ever went to church with their friends who were raised Catholic they were not allowed to be alone with members of the Catholic clergy and why. It wasn’t prejudice, it was pragmatism. Shit like this has been an open secret for generations.
posted by Orange Dinosaur Slide at 6:30 PM on September 10, 2022 [8 favorites]
posted by Orange Dinosaur Slide at 6:30 PM on September 10, 2022 [8 favorites]
I talked to my 14-y.o. (Freshman) daughter about this, and she reminded me of another teacher at the high school who's a creep.
The Boy Scouts' bankruptcy settlement was approved this week, but there is no single agency who employs these gross teachers that can be held accountable.
posted by wenestvedt at 7:04 PM on September 10, 2022 [3 favorites]
The Boy Scouts' bankruptcy settlement was approved this week, but there is no single agency who employs these gross teachers that can be held accountable.
posted by wenestvedt at 7:04 PM on September 10, 2022 [3 favorites]
As far as the sex segregation goes, it's clear to me these boys are protecting their friends - as in, the girls in their circles. Their friends.
They see the girls not being believed, so they put together another tool to support them, that doesn't require them to revisit the things that are upsetting or traumatizing to them. The article goes into great detail about how the boys saw how distressed and uncomfortable the girls were about this teacher, so they didn't involve them in the project. They're tracking what's happening to them at a remove, so that the girls don't have to try and stay clear headed and record the trauma as it occurs. Like a bystander filming an assault, it doesn't require the victim to do anything other than survive the encounter, but the evidence will be there once they do.
This is excellent support within the context of a mixed gender friendship group.
posted by Jilder at 7:19 PM on September 10, 2022 [35 favorites]
They see the girls not being believed, so they put together another tool to support them, that doesn't require them to revisit the things that are upsetting or traumatizing to them. The article goes into great detail about how the boys saw how distressed and uncomfortable the girls were about this teacher, so they didn't involve them in the project. They're tracking what's happening to them at a remove, so that the girls don't have to try and stay clear headed and record the trauma as it occurs. Like a bystander filming an assault, it doesn't require the victim to do anything other than survive the encounter, but the evidence will be there once they do.
This is excellent support within the context of a mixed gender friendship group.
posted by Jilder at 7:19 PM on September 10, 2022 [35 favorites]
I wish when I was in school we had the presence of mind and tenacity to do what these kids did.
When I was in school, the surveillance gear required for an intervention of this kind was not ubiquitous enough to be unremarkable. Wandering about with a motion picture camera ready to hand at all times would have been enough to have the person doing that, not the one they were filming, come over as the creep.
posted by flabdablet at 3:54 AM on September 11, 2022 [2 favorites]
When I was in school, the surveillance gear required for an intervention of this kind was not ubiquitous enough to be unremarkable. Wandering about with a motion picture camera ready to hand at all times would have been enough to have the person doing that, not the one they were filming, come over as the creep.
posted by flabdablet at 3:54 AM on September 11, 2022 [2 favorites]
> they're children, they have no experience to contrast with as normal. If they're picking up the red flags - wtf were the adults?
I often think it's BECAUSE they're kids that they're picking up the red flags that adults won't see.
Specifically it's because they're kids of this particular generation, the very first generation in history who are being raised with awareness of concepts like consent, sexual impropriety, and holding even high-status people accountable for abuses of their power. There's a huge difference in the stigma attached to victims of sexual abuse from even ten years ago compared to today.
Adults didn't grow up like that, our generations think very differently about these things. We'll catch someone doing something undoubtedly fucked up and we will (legitimately!) worry that we will be ostracized or attacked by our peers for speaking up. And the older we are the more likely it is we carry deeply internalized barriers to speaking up: because we've never known our system to work anyway so what's the point of speaking up, because we aren't one of those annoying militant activists who are always up in everyone's faces about some fervent cause, because a good man's life shouldn't be destroyed over something so minor, because teenage girls are liars, because authority must be respected, because sex itself is too shameful to speak of.
But in our defense, we managed to raise the next generation better. That's wtf the adults were: we knew it was wrong and we tried to fix it little by little, one generation at a time, and now we're here, and the kids are doing exactly what we raised them to do, and they'll push the next lot even further along the path.
posted by MiraK at 9:37 AM on September 11, 2022 [15 favorites]
I often think it's BECAUSE they're kids that they're picking up the red flags that adults won't see.
Specifically it's because they're kids of this particular generation, the very first generation in history who are being raised with awareness of concepts like consent, sexual impropriety, and holding even high-status people accountable for abuses of their power. There's a huge difference in the stigma attached to victims of sexual abuse from even ten years ago compared to today.
Adults didn't grow up like that, our generations think very differently about these things. We'll catch someone doing something undoubtedly fucked up and we will (legitimately!) worry that we will be ostracized or attacked by our peers for speaking up. And the older we are the more likely it is we carry deeply internalized barriers to speaking up: because we've never known our system to work anyway so what's the point of speaking up, because we aren't one of those annoying militant activists who are always up in everyone's faces about some fervent cause, because a good man's life shouldn't be destroyed over something so minor, because teenage girls are liars, because authority must be respected, because sex itself is too shameful to speak of.
But in our defense, we managed to raise the next generation better. That's wtf the adults were: we knew it was wrong and we tried to fix it little by little, one generation at a time, and now we're here, and the kids are doing exactly what we raised them to do, and they'll push the next lot even further along the path.
posted by MiraK at 9:37 AM on September 11, 2022 [15 favorites]
"...further discourage good people from entering the profession. Around three-quarters of teachers in Texas are already interested in quitting."
Just to be clear, institutional support of abusive teachers is absolutely one reason "good people" leave teaching.
74% of teachers in the US are women, but that percentage drops to 24% for school superintendents. Which is not to say that female administrators can't or don't cover up teacher abuse. But imagine being a bright young teacher, passionately beginning your career, hearing the students gossip about Mr E who is a little too enthusiastic about enforcing the girl's dress code and being told, oh yeah, he's been here for years but he golfs with the principal or he goes to the same church as the superintendent, don't bother, you'll only get yourself in trouble. The teacher who had this job before you, she tried to go against the administration; she's in medical billing now.
posted by radiogreentea at 2:21 PM on September 11, 2022 [15 favorites]
Just to be clear, institutional support of abusive teachers is absolutely one reason "good people" leave teaching.
74% of teachers in the US are women, but that percentage drops to 24% for school superintendents. Which is not to say that female administrators can't or don't cover up teacher abuse. But imagine being a bright young teacher, passionately beginning your career, hearing the students gossip about Mr E who is a little too enthusiastic about enforcing the girl's dress code and being told, oh yeah, he's been here for years but he golfs with the principal or he goes to the same church as the superintendent, don't bother, you'll only get yourself in trouble. The teacher who had this job before you, she tried to go against the administration; she's in medical billing now.
posted by radiogreentea at 2:21 PM on September 11, 2022 [15 favorites]
In the neighborhood I grew up in, there was a prominent community member who was a sexual predator of kids. Because he was a respected individual, we all knew that the adults would never believe us. Somewhat spontaneously, the kids banded together to form a conspiracy to protect each other from him. This article reminded me of those events from years ago, the kids figuring out how to document the abusive behavior. I wish I had had Discord back then. (The man has since died, but I still have never told my parents.)
posted by Quaversalis at 3:37 PM on September 11, 2022 [7 favorites]
posted by Quaversalis at 3:37 PM on September 11, 2022 [7 favorites]
I was having drinks once with a friend of mine in her mid 30s who grew up in North Kingstown (where this school is) and we got on the topic of teachers who were creeps, and she told me some very eyebrow raising stories.
Like, of course I knew creepy adults growing up and there was an incident at my high school where the assistant principal was fired for drinking with some female students at his place (yikes, of course). But the way my friend was talking about it, teachers creeping on students just seemed so normalized and pervasive in her high school experience in a way i couldn't relate to.
I don't see it mentioned in the FPP, but this is the second big scandal involving wide-spread, ongoing inappropriate sexual conduct with students to come out of that school system in the last few years. I know that there are adults who are creeps are everywhere, but it feels like there must be some pretty entrenched issues with admin turning a blind eye in this case. Thirty years of complaints!
posted by geegollygosh at 5:40 PM on September 11, 2022 [6 favorites]
Like, of course I knew creepy adults growing up and there was an incident at my high school where the assistant principal was fired for drinking with some female students at his place (yikes, of course). But the way my friend was talking about it, teachers creeping on students just seemed so normalized and pervasive in her high school experience in a way i couldn't relate to.
I don't see it mentioned in the FPP, but this is the second big scandal involving wide-spread, ongoing inappropriate sexual conduct with students to come out of that school system in the last few years. I know that there are adults who are creeps are everywhere, but it feels like there must be some pretty entrenched issues with admin turning a blind eye in this case. Thirty years of complaints!
posted by geegollygosh at 5:40 PM on September 11, 2022 [6 favorites]
Couldn’t help thinking of the old nursery rhyme dating to at least 1841, of which I had a wooden puzzle version when I was 4-5:
posted by jamjam at 6:47 PM on September 11, 2022 [1 favorite]
Georgie Porgie, pudding and pie,Charles II isn’t all that far-fetched a parallel for the Davisville teacher, really.
Kissed the girls and made them cry;
When the boys came out to play,
Georgie Porgie ran away.
As with other of the better-known rhymes, numerous guesses have been hazarded that an historical character is portrayed. Andrew Lang says George I’; Lady Maxse gives ‘George Villiers, Duke of Buckingham’; pop- ular tradition insists ‘Charles II’. As usual, no evidence is vouchsafed. Although so popular today, it has not been found in any of the early nursery-rhyme literature. However, it must have been well-known when ‘Quis-Quis’, in The Kentish Coronal, 1841, used it to satirize the poetry critics of his day.
posted by jamjam at 6:47 PM on September 11, 2022 [1 favorite]
Good to see another instance where the kids are, in fact, alright.
posted by rmd1023 at 6:54 PM on September 11, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by rmd1023 at 6:54 PM on September 11, 2022 [1 favorite]
When I was in school, we had a female teacher caught with a young female student - it was a pretty big news story. Also had several 2nd hand reports of male coaches doing inappropriate things with cheerleaders and other students, but my school had lots of young teachers so people moving on during the summer was not out of the ordinary.
posted by The_Vegetables at 8:20 AM on September 12, 2022
posted by The_Vegetables at 8:20 AM on September 12, 2022
My spouse is a teacher and gets monthly magazines from the Ontario College of Teachers which has highlights about the profession, listings for additional courses and a section on disciplinary proceedings. A large amount of the proceedings are about male teachers acting inappropriately or sexually assaulting students.
Through my schooling I never knew of any teachers engaging in this behaviour but one of my math teachers in high school did end up marrying a former student, they were already married by the time I took his class, and I always found that really gross.
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 1:32 PM on September 12, 2022 [1 favorite]
Through my schooling I never knew of any teachers engaging in this behaviour but one of my math teachers in high school did end up marrying a former student, they were already married by the time I took his class, and I always found that really gross.
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 1:32 PM on September 12, 2022 [1 favorite]
subdee: I hate that online stuff makes me question the story in a kneejerk way because "pedo" is so often misused... sounds like it's used correctly here.
Are you referring to the technical distinction between pedophilia (attraction to pre-pubescent children), hebephilia (attraction to early adolescents), and ephebophilia (attraction to later adolescents)?
I recently saw a clip of a stand-up comic who explained those three terms. The punchline was that there's no way to get pedantic about the distinction between the three without sounding like a pedophile. (I'd link to it, but I forget the comic's name.)
posted by escape from the potato planet at 3:55 AM on September 13, 2022 [6 favorites]
Are you referring to the technical distinction between pedophilia (attraction to pre-pubescent children), hebephilia (attraction to early adolescents), and ephebophilia (attraction to later adolescents)?
I recently saw a clip of a stand-up comic who explained those three terms. The punchline was that there's no way to get pedantic about the distinction between the three without sounding like a pedophile. (I'd link to it, but I forget the comic's name.)
posted by escape from the potato planet at 3:55 AM on September 13, 2022 [6 favorites]
I think subdee was more referring to how accusations of pedophilia have lately become de rigur in right wing attacks on both public education and the existence of queer people in public. Usually it's "groomer" right now, and not "pedo", but the latter is certainly in the mix.
posted by vibratory manner of working at 8:48 AM on September 13, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by vibratory manner of working at 8:48 AM on September 13, 2022 [2 favorites]
Dear Young MenFormer student of that same creepy teacher writes to thank the “brave young men” who kept the pedo database.
When I first read the story about the students who kept a written record of their teachers concerning behavior, I had no idea that they were from my local school district, All I could think of was how brave those students were for taking a stand against someone who was supposed to be a positive influence in their life…
When I was a student in [the same teacher’s] class, I felt helpless against his harassment and bullying… Hearing that the same thing was still happening in his class and sports team nearly seven years after I had left leaves me feeling sad and frustrated with the school systems lack of action.
Thank you so much for standing up for all of the students that didn’t have a voice. You are very brave for taking a stand against something you knew was wrong, and you should be proud of yourselves for that.
posted by Winnie the Proust at 2:11 PM on September 29, 2022 [2 favorites]
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posted by Bee'sWing at 8:29 AM on September 10, 2022 [7 favorites]