It is a Gladiator Pit and Bitch, You Are Not Armed
September 24, 2022 2:01 PM   Subscribe

From Musings of a Crouton, the entry warning to the Internet (think of it more as a spoken-word piece).

"Stop engaging in political discourse in comment sections. The Internet is not a symposium; it is a gladiator pit and bitch, you are not armed. You are debating the unemployed, literal children, and men with dookie streaks in their draws because they think wiping properly is [bends hand at wrist]. Social media is for shitposting, constructing a false narrative about your life, catfishing, trauma-dumping, and cyberbullying -- nothing less, nothing more. You are taking precious time out of your day that could have been spent getting ignored by your friends, being touch-deprived, or being underpaid. And to what? Argue with a stranger on the nuances of the term 'toxic masculinity' on a platform that is known for tweens popularizing mediocre dances, thirst-trapping, and vacuous virtuous signaling. Don't you get it? There is no winning in this game."

Elsewhere.
posted by MollyRealized (16 comments total)

This post was deleted for the following reason: Poster's Request -- loup



 
Choose life.
posted by Going To Maine at 2:03 PM on September 24, 2022 [2 favorites]


That is certainly an opinion.
posted by Splunge at 2:17 PM on September 24, 2022


The chance of you changing the mind of the person you are disagreeing with in a comment section is next to nil. But the chance of you swaying someone on the edge who’s idly scrolling those comments is real. And the chance of you being the first person to say “get the fuck out of here, nazi” and make it okay for others to add a “yes, fuck off nazi” to the discussion is real too.

For-profit sites feed on arguments and hate and will only moderate the most blatantly illegal stuff, and reluctantly at that. This does not mean you should abandon all comment sections to the worst elements.
posted by egypturnash at 3:01 PM on September 24, 2022 [18 favorites]


wiping properly is [bends hand at wrist]

Technically correct; appropriate hand position is a required step in the process.
posted by Greg_Ace at 3:10 PM on September 24, 2022


>the chance of you swaying someone on the edge who’s idly scrolling those comments is real

That's what I always think, or maybe hope, too. God help us, impressionable people are deciding what they think while reading this stuff. Might as well put a word in for the obvious truth if you've got a minute; it is often underrepresented otherwise.
posted by Sing Or Swim at 4:45 PM on September 24, 2022 [2 favorites]


Once again, we need to remember that while it likes to masquerade as such, cynicism is not wisdom.

The chance of you changing the mind of the person you are disagreeing with in a comment section is next to nil. But the chance of you swaying someone on the edge who’s idly scrolling those comments is real. And the chance of you being the first person to say “get the fuck out of here, nazi” and make it okay for others to add a “yes, fuck off nazi” to the discussion is real too.

There's also the point that it shows the marginalized and the victimized that they are not alone, that there are others who stand with and for them. Which is really fucking important for people who are literally under siege.

I'm also pretty much done with the privileged argument that social media is trivial, often stated by people for whom it is such because they have the privilege and support to make it such. For a lot of people, many of whom are in marginalized groups, social media is a vital lifeline that provides them community and support when noplace else can - which is why the bigots put such effort in making the internet and social media unsafe for the dispossessed. The line "There is no winning in this game" belies the flaw in the position - for many people, this isn't "a game", but a very, very real matter of life and death.
posted by NoxAeternum at 5:28 PM on September 24, 2022 [9 favorites]


I loved it. It’s utterly true about a great deal of what people do online and why it’s not nearly as significant a discourse arena as it seems. That said, some of it depends (which I think is the point) on how you engage with social media. Participating in MetaFilter comment threads feels useful. Arguing with Twitter comments on a post by a public figure doesn’t.
posted by Peach at 6:54 PM on September 24, 2022


wiping properly is [bends hand at wrist]

Greg_Ace: Technically correct; appropriate hand position is a required step in the process.

"Sitting or standing, $20 same as in town." ← social media is for silly in-jokes. (There's a wiki explaining them so you're not an outsider for long.)

It's play for so many people, disconnected from the consequences of their actions unless you choose a community where reputations matter. That's not 'influencer' but 'being a good community member' reputation. Tiktok and advert-driven sites promote things they deem to help site revenue, each sub-Reddit has its own moderators and drivers.

It's home for so many people and the consequences of posting matter.
posted by k3ninho at 3:47 AM on September 25, 2022


It's play for so many people, disconnected from the consequences of their actions unless you choose a community where reputations matter.

That's why MeFi commentary continues to be the most wholesome and thoughtful, and why I value it above all other commentary anywhere else. The paid entry fee keeps the bots away (I think?) but the "everything you've ever said on this site is publicly accessible forever" keeps us at bay and accountable. Also, yes, the mods are genuinely incredible.

(and, yes, I review my long history on MeFi at times and cringe)
posted by revmitcz at 4:10 AM on September 25, 2022


For a lot of people, many of whom are in marginalized groups, social media is a vital lifeline that provides them community and support when noplace else can

This is very true, and predates the Internet. Science fiction fandom arose from the quaint practice of printing the addresses of people writing in to the letter columns in the pulps. Also, gay men finding each other via the contact sections of sports photography magazines.

The sad thing is that what works for marginalized communities has also worked for Nazis, -phobes of all sorts, etc, who are much more interested in metastasizing than mutual support, and I don’t know how we keep the one and not the other.
posted by GenjiandProust at 4:39 AM on September 25, 2022 [3 favorites]


By shouting "get the fuck out of here, Nazi" whenever it's appropriate.
posted by seanmpuckett at 7:13 AM on September 25, 2022


Some commenters have issues with the message of TFA (as well they might) but the succinct truth of TFA's final sentence is not to be denied.
posted by Aardvark Cheeselog at 8:13 AM on September 25, 2022


The sad thing is that what works for marginalized communities has also worked for Nazis, -phobes of all sorts, etc, who are much more interested in metastasizing than mutual support, and I don’t know how we keep the one and not the other.

We start by rejecting the argument that hate and bigotry can and should be treated as just another opinion, and that the harm it causes is real and cannot be dismissed. This excellent piece points to how the argument that one can be neutral in the face of hate fails because of those harms,and that we have to proactively work to oppose it.

Some commenters have issues with the message of TFA (as well they might) but the succinct truth of TFA's final sentence is not to be denied.

What truth? Because from where I sit, all I see is the voice of privilege attempting to reduce the deadly serious to triviality in order to avoid examining the priors they hold dear. As I said before, this is very much not a game for the marginalized who are being targeted, who are having the space they find community in being rendered unsafe for them by bigots who would see them dead - nor is it a game for those very bigots either. And to reduce it to such is to turn a blind eye to those who are fighting for their right to exist.
posted by NoxAeternum at 9:51 AM on September 25, 2022 [4 favorites]


By shouting "get the fuck out of here, Nazi" whenever it's appropriate.

We start by rejecting the argument that hate and bigotry can and should be treated as just another opinion

Those are great community solutions, but how do they play on social media platforms, where the owners apparently want "controversy?" When you community is only valued for the number of clicks it gets, how does it continue to exist as a community? If the same tools that allow you to build a community also allow you abusers toi tear it down, is that a victory?
posted by GenjiandProust at 3:34 PM on September 25, 2022


When [your] community is only valued for the number of clicks it gets, how does it continue to exist as a community? If the same tools that allow you to build a community also allow you abusers [toi] tear it down, is that a victory?

As much as I appreciate the idea that social media platforms broadly considered have enabled connection, organization, and resistance, the communication they have enabled isn’t unique to them, and the social dynamics they engender are woeful — but also completely essential to their models.

There’s a recent NYT article about Russian bot farms targeting the Women’s March that serves as a great example of how easy it is to run a disinformation op on these platforms in part because they incentivize people to be awful. But of course blue-check media types think the problem with the platform is Russian trolls.

I can’t believe there aren’t better tools for organization and connection.
posted by mph at 4:31 PM on September 25, 2022 [2 favorites]


Those are great community solutions, but how do they play on social media platforms, where the owners apparently want "controversy?"

I recommend that you read the piece that I linked, because it talks about the underlying issues driving the issue - namely that we culturally believe that hate speech is the price of free speech, which in turn informs these actions:
One frequently articulated concern is that refusing services to one bad actor is a “slippery slope” that leads to refusing services to anyone, including marginalized communities often targeted by forums like 8chan. So far, that has not been the case. While Cloudflare claims its high-profile decisions to terminate services for 8chan and the Daily Stormer led to “a dramatic increase in authoritarian regimes attempting to have us terminate security services for human rights organizations,” it’s unclear whether any of these requests are reflected in the company’s transparency reports. Greater transparency is needed throughout the stack in order for a well-informed public conversation to be possible. But equally important is examining how and when “slippery slope” arguments are applied. Cloudflare claims that its latest takedown decision was made because escalating threats – over the course of a mere forty-eight hours – led the company to believe there was “an unprecedented emergency and immediate threat to human life.” The slope from “revolting content” to harassment, swatting, and mass shootings encouraged by hateful communities online seems awfully slippery, too.
(While the article centers on infrastructure companies, much of what is said is applicable to social media as well.)

The problem isn't technical, it's cultural - and without changing the latter, you'll never get traction on the former.
posted by NoxAeternum at 7:38 PM on September 25, 2022 [2 favorites]


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