Elon Musk Says "Fuck It"
October 4, 2022 12:05 PM Subscribe
After saying he would, then he wouldn't, Elon Musk has announced that he will go through with his purchase of Twitter at $54.20/share.
This comes after several days including having his private messages put on display, a lackluster robot unveiling, and getting clowned on Twitter on topics such as the seaworthiness of the Cybertruck and questionable advice on Ukrainian sovereignty.
This comes after several days including having his private messages put on display, a lackluster robot unveiling, and getting clowned on Twitter on topics such as the seaworthiness of the Cybertruck and questionable advice on Ukrainian sovereignty.
There goes the neighbourhood.
posted by Pallas Athena at 12:09 PM on October 4, 2022 [26 favorites]
posted by Pallas Athena at 12:09 PM on October 4, 2022 [26 favorites]
wut
posted by I-Write-Essays at 12:12 PM on October 4, 2022
posted by I-Write-Essays at 12:12 PM on October 4, 2022
I get a lot more engagement on tumblr and mastodon so ... i guess i won't really miss anything but the grar and ... will i really miss the grar?
posted by seanmpuckett at 12:14 PM on October 4, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by seanmpuckett at 12:14 PM on October 4, 2022 [1 favorite]
Those two deserve each other.
posted by mhoye at 12:14 PM on October 4, 2022 [15 favorites]
posted by mhoye at 12:14 PM on October 4, 2022 [15 favorites]
Only a few days before Musk would have to take the stand and be questioned under oath: Musk to be questioned under oath by Twitter lawyers on 6 and 7 October in preparation for trial over abandoned $44bn takeover
He didn't have any real evidence, would make a fool of himself on the stand, lose the lawsuit, and have to buy Twitter anyway.
posted by meowzilla at 12:14 PM on October 4, 2022 [40 favorites]
He didn't have any real evidence, would make a fool of himself on the stand, lose the lawsuit, and have to buy Twitter anyway.
posted by meowzilla at 12:14 PM on October 4, 2022 [40 favorites]
There hasn't really been a good outcome on the table ever since he started throwing his weight around re: ownership, so I'm just sort of noting numbly that I Was Here for this particular next step in the voyage of stupidity.
posted by cortex at 12:16 PM on October 4, 2022 [56 favorites]
posted by cortex at 12:16 PM on October 4, 2022 [56 favorites]
Now that both Trump and Putin — not to mention Governor Greg Abbot of the state where he's building a huge Tesla factory — so badly need the help that only he can give, how could he do any less?
posted by jamjam at 12:18 PM on October 4, 2022 [11 favorites]
posted by jamjam at 12:18 PM on October 4, 2022 [11 favorites]
He didn't have any real evidence, would make a fool of himself on the stand, lose the lawsuit, and have to buy Twitter anyway.
Exactly, seems like his lawyers finally got through to him that he can't meme his way out of this one.
posted by star gentle uterus at 12:20 PM on October 4, 2022 [6 favorites]
Exactly, seems like his lawyers finally got through to him that he can't meme his way out of this one.
posted by star gentle uterus at 12:20 PM on October 4, 2022 [6 favorites]
The best possible outcome in my opinion: Twitter and Elon go belly up.
(Elon fanboys, dont 'at' me)
posted by milnak at 12:21 PM on October 4, 2022 [39 favorites]
(Elon fanboys, dont 'at' me)
posted by milnak at 12:21 PM on October 4, 2022 [39 favorites]
In light of his recent tweets about Ukraine (parroting Russian propaganda like "Khruschev's mistake" in giving it Crimea), this is particularly annoying, as Twitter has been a great venue for following news from Ukrainians and Western experts on Ukraine.
posted by rory at 12:23 PM on October 4, 2022 [29 favorites]
posted by rory at 12:23 PM on October 4, 2022 [29 favorites]
One interesting thing to note is that Twitter is likely to lose a significant piece of legal cover in the future, as algorithmic promotion of content is on the docket at the Supreme Court.
posted by NoxAeternum at 12:24 PM on October 4, 2022 [9 favorites]
posted by NoxAeternum at 12:24 PM on October 4, 2022 [9 favorites]
I assumed they would settle with Musk giving Twitter a giant "I'm sorry" payment, which would be distributed amongst shareholders. But I guess he figured if he's going to have to give money away, he might as well get the product.
I stand by my conviction. If the Musk-helmed Twitter allows Trump back on, I'm leaving. I've got no time for Truth Social 2.0.
posted by Popular Ethics at 12:25 PM on October 4, 2022 [16 favorites]
I stand by my conviction. If the Musk-helmed Twitter allows Trump back on, I'm leaving. I've got no time for Truth Social 2.0.
posted by Popular Ethics at 12:25 PM on October 4, 2022 [16 favorites]
All these right-wing nuts egging him on. Does Elon realize Twitter will be on the hook for their hate filled nonsense if SCOTUS ditches section 230 of the CDA this summer?
I’m excited to see Twitter die while bankrupting Elon
posted by MiltonRandKalman at 12:25 PM on October 4, 2022 [9 favorites]
I’m excited to see Twitter die while bankrupting Elon
posted by MiltonRandKalman at 12:25 PM on October 4, 2022 [9 favorites]
UK politics Twitter would also be hard to replicate elsewhere. Maybe it will fly under his radar. Not sure that US activist Twitter will.
posted by rory at 12:25 PM on October 4, 2022 [4 favorites]
posted by rory at 12:25 PM on October 4, 2022 [4 favorites]
I wouldn’t assume it’s a done deal until the check clears, and perhaps not even then.
posted by TedW at 12:25 PM on October 4, 2022 [25 favorites]
posted by TedW at 12:25 PM on October 4, 2022 [25 favorites]
Also about the thread title, this isn't Musk saying "fuck it'. It's been pretty clear from the start that he never viewed this as a serious takeover attempt, and assumed he could just skip away with a slap on the wrist or a small (to him) fee as he has done so many times before. This may be the first time in his entire life that he has been forced to really deal with the consequences of his actions.
posted by star gentle uterus at 12:26 PM on October 4, 2022 [28 favorites]
posted by star gentle uterus at 12:26 PM on October 4, 2022 [28 favorites]
It's Springtime for Twitter.
posted by acb at 12:30 PM on October 4, 2022 [76 favorites]
posted by acb at 12:30 PM on October 4, 2022 [76 favorites]
Is he though? Being forced to take the deal doesn't sound like consquences, yet. We're not dealing with a rational actor here, this guy is a meme lord. For all we know, he always intended to buy twitter, and the show about not buying it was just him trolling the shareholders for lulz. How can we possibly tell what a madman is thinking? If the check bounces and it topples his empire, that will be consequences.
posted by I-Write-Essays at 12:30 PM on October 4, 2022 [7 favorites]
posted by I-Write-Essays at 12:30 PM on October 4, 2022 [7 favorites]
I do wonder where the money is coming from now (as opposed to previously - I know I saw a list previously of the backers involved ). I mean $54B ain't chump change and Tesla is down over 10% for the year. I guess there will be SEC disclosures, and will be interesting to see who is still backing this or if it changes.
posted by inflatablekiwi at 12:36 PM on October 4, 2022 [7 favorites]
posted by inflatablekiwi at 12:36 PM on October 4, 2022 [7 favorites]
He didn't have any real evidence, would make a fool of himself on the stand, lose the lawsuit, and have to buy Twitter anyway.
He could have just as easily simply paid the penalty to get out of the contract, for a whole lot less money than buying the thing. Musk's a knob.
posted by Thorzdad at 12:36 PM on October 4, 2022 [5 favorites]
He could have just as easily simply paid the penalty to get out of the contract, for a whole lot less money than buying the thing. Musk's a knob.
posted by Thorzdad at 12:36 PM on October 4, 2022 [5 favorites]
It's Springtime for Twitter.
Excellent, acb!
When Musk is finally in charge, we can rechristen it 'Twitler', and fully expect it to live up to both poles of the pun.
posted by jamjam at 12:37 PM on October 4, 2022 [6 favorites]
Excellent, acb!
When Musk is finally in charge, we can rechristen it 'Twitler', and fully expect it to live up to both poles of the pun.
posted by jamjam at 12:37 PM on October 4, 2022 [6 favorites]
He could have just as easily simply paid the penalty to get out of the contract
No, we covered this: Elon Musk can’t just walk away from his Twitter deal by paying a $1 billion breakup fee
posted by meowzilla at 12:39 PM on October 4, 2022 [18 favorites]
No, we covered this: Elon Musk can’t just walk away from his Twitter deal by paying a $1 billion breakup fee
posted by meowzilla at 12:39 PM on October 4, 2022 [18 favorites]
He could have just as easily simply paid the penalty to get out of the contract, for a whole lot less money than buying the thing.
That's a common misunderstanding, but it doesn't work like that.
The billion dollar reverse termination or "breakup fee" provision isn't a ticket to leave whenever the party wants, it requires certain conditions to be met. It applies only when there is an outside reason a deal can’t close, such as regulatory intermediation or third-party financing concerns.
A buyer can also walk if there’s fraud, assuming the discovery of incorrect information has a so-called “material adverse effect.” Hence, Musk suddenly "discovering" the bot problem and trying to bail.
posted by star gentle uterus at 12:40 PM on October 4, 2022 [12 favorites]
That's a common misunderstanding, but it doesn't work like that.
The billion dollar reverse termination or "breakup fee" provision isn't a ticket to leave whenever the party wants, it requires certain conditions to be met. It applies only when there is an outside reason a deal can’t close, such as regulatory intermediation or third-party financing concerns.
A buyer can also walk if there’s fraud, assuming the discovery of incorrect information has a so-called “material adverse effect.” Hence, Musk suddenly "discovering" the bot problem and trying to bail.
posted by star gentle uterus at 12:40 PM on October 4, 2022 [12 favorites]
Could anyone with a time machine please buy me some Twitter stock? Roughly around Feb 24 of this year would be fine. okthxbye.
posted by Artful Codger at 12:42 PM on October 4, 2022
posted by Artful Codger at 12:42 PM on October 4, 2022
Things like the break-up fee "bot" bullshit, the waiver of due diligence, and the general jokiness of it all are why I don't think he ever really intended to go through with this. He did it on a whim as he has done so many times before, then panicked and tried very hard to backpedal when it became clear this is for real.
I think the offer was "just him trolling the shareholders for lulz" because he believed he could call it off when he wanted. Even for him this is a huge deal. On paper he's the world's richest man, that doesn't mean he actually has a Scrooge McDuck pool of liquid cash he can just pay the purchase price with.
posted by star gentle uterus at 12:43 PM on October 4, 2022 [8 favorites]
I think the offer was "just him trolling the shareholders for lulz" because he believed he could call it off when he wanted. Even for him this is a huge deal. On paper he's the world's richest man, that doesn't mean he actually has a Scrooge McDuck pool of liquid cash he can just pay the purchase price with.
posted by star gentle uterus at 12:43 PM on October 4, 2022 [8 favorites]
Wouldn't he be paying something like $10 billion above what Twitter is actually valued at?
posted by Splunge at 12:43 PM on October 4, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by Splunge at 12:43 PM on October 4, 2022 [1 favorite]
A couple of weeks ago, the Nazis took over the government of the country I'm living in, and now they're taking over the main social network I use. FML.
posted by acb at 12:43 PM on October 4, 2022 [26 favorites]
posted by acb at 12:43 PM on October 4, 2022 [26 favorites]
Not sure how Twitter could possibly be made worse than it already is, but he'll find a way
posted by GoblinHoney at 12:45 PM on October 4, 2022 [9 favorites]
posted by GoblinHoney at 12:45 PM on October 4, 2022 [9 favorites]
After 2 years on Twitter I've amassed nearly 10 followers. I'll be sorry to have to bid adieu to all of them.
posted by Greg_Ace at 12:50 PM on October 4, 2022 [31 favorites]
posted by Greg_Ace at 12:50 PM on October 4, 2022 [31 favorites]
Making a Blake Masters type VP of Enforcement ought to do it.
posted by acb at 12:51 PM on October 4, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by acb at 12:51 PM on October 4, 2022 [2 favorites]
Unfortunately, Twitter is my main news delivery medium. It's not like I can get that from Tumblr or Mastodon.
posted by octothorpe at 12:53 PM on October 4, 2022 [18 favorites]
posted by octothorpe at 12:53 PM on October 4, 2022 [18 favorites]
Our job now is to make Twitter such a mess that Musk sells it at an enormous loss six months from now.
posted by Faint of Butt at 12:55 PM on October 4, 2022 [6 favorites]
posted by Faint of Butt at 12:55 PM on October 4, 2022 [6 favorites]
Our job now is to make Twitter such a mess that Musk sells it at an enormous loss six months from now.
I have a feeling that the Supreme Court will do a lot of that work.
posted by NoxAeternum at 12:57 PM on October 4, 2022 [7 favorites]
I have a feeling that the Supreme Court will do a lot of that work.
posted by NoxAeternum at 12:57 PM on October 4, 2022 [7 favorites]
Our job now is to make Twitter such a mess that Musk sells it at an enormous loss six months from now.
IMO the job should be to make Twitter such a mess that nobody uses it anymore, but it kinda looks like y'all have already been at that for ten years now without success and maybe we need to reevaluate humanity.
posted by pwnguin at 12:57 PM on October 4, 2022 [17 favorites]
IMO the job should be to make Twitter such a mess that nobody uses it anymore, but it kinda looks like y'all have already been at that for ten years now without success and maybe we need to reevaluate humanity.
posted by pwnguin at 12:57 PM on October 4, 2022 [17 favorites]
Twitter is my main news delivery medium
Just browse Imgur without an account. (Only half joking, I find some interesting news items this way I wouldn't have seen otherwise, and some super fast breaking stuff too)
posted by SaltySalticid at 12:58 PM on October 4, 2022
Just browse Imgur without an account. (Only half joking, I find some interesting news items this way I wouldn't have seen otherwise, and some super fast breaking stuff too)
posted by SaltySalticid at 12:58 PM on October 4, 2022
I have a feeling that the Supreme Court will do a lot of that work.
We'll see how much Texas wants to enforce that law if it will affect a business than "an ally" owns.
posted by meowzilla at 1:04 PM on October 4, 2022 [7 favorites]
We'll see how much Texas wants to enforce that law if it will affect a business than "an ally" owns.
posted by meowzilla at 1:04 PM on October 4, 2022 [7 favorites]
Dammit.
Going to have to find a new place to shout at clouds.
posted by srboisvert at 1:04 PM on October 4, 2022 [5 favorites]
Going to have to find a new place to shout at clouds.
posted by srboisvert at 1:04 PM on October 4, 2022 [5 favorites]
The day this deal closes, the former Twitter shareholders should approach Musk with an offer to buy it at $34.20 per share.
posted by The Tensor at 1:08 PM on October 4, 2022 [9 favorites]
posted by The Tensor at 1:08 PM on October 4, 2022 [9 favorites]
This thread from an informed court observer suggests this is not a done deal. One way to read this statement is "whoops, I want a do-over but don't want to give up anything to get it." Versus Twitter may well be able to get a better deal. Crucially, his team wants to retain the right to sue them later for various things he's already said he believes they have done wrong. Twitter may be happy see this thing through and get it "all."
Basically, this is a move in a negotiation not necessarily an end.
posted by heresiarch at 1:12 PM on October 4, 2022 [7 favorites]
Basically, this is a move in a negotiation not necessarily an end.
posted by heresiarch at 1:12 PM on October 4, 2022 [7 favorites]
What a twit!
posted by Coaticass at 1:14 PM on October 4, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by Coaticass at 1:14 PM on October 4, 2022 [2 favorites]
This makes me sad. There are a lot of people of various enjoyable little networks I interact with on Twitter that I will have no way to be in touch with if I leave.
posted by oneirodynia at 1:15 PM on October 4, 2022 [19 favorites]
posted by oneirodynia at 1:15 PM on October 4, 2022 [19 favorites]
> Twitter may well be able to get a better deal
Twitter issued this statement about today's news: We received the letter from the Musk parties which they have filed with the SEC. The intention of the Company is to close the transaction at $54.20 per share.
It doesn't look like they intend to try to get a better deal.
posted by I-Write-Essays at 1:19 PM on October 4, 2022 [2 favorites]
Twitter issued this statement about today's news: We received the letter from the Musk parties which they have filed with the SEC. The intention of the Company is to close the transaction at $54.20 per share.
It doesn't look like they intend to try to get a better deal.
posted by I-Write-Essays at 1:19 PM on October 4, 2022 [2 favorites]
Twitter is my main news delivery medium
I swear I’m not trying to start a shit fight but /r/politics does center-left coverage of the news pretty damn well these days, and overwhelmingly from a perspective and tone most MeFites will be fairly comfortable with (you’ll need to bring the occasional chuckle and “oh you kids” because it’s a younger crowd, but alignment-wise it’s surprisingly close).
I’d suggest /r/antiwork/ for more dirtbag Marxist Mefites …but if that label applies to you then you’re already there and/or on the mod team.
posted by Ryvar at 1:19 PM on October 4, 2022 [20 favorites]
I swear I’m not trying to start a shit fight but /r/politics does center-left coverage of the news pretty damn well these days, and overwhelmingly from a perspective and tone most MeFites will be fairly comfortable with (you’ll need to bring the occasional chuckle and “oh you kids” because it’s a younger crowd, but alignment-wise it’s surprisingly close).
I’d suggest /r/antiwork/ for more dirtbag Marxist Mefites …but if that label applies to you then you’re already there and/or on the mod team.
posted by Ryvar at 1:19 PM on October 4, 2022 [20 favorites]
My main news delivery mechanisms are Metafilter and Hacker News.
posted by I-Write-Essays at 1:22 PM on October 4, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by I-Write-Essays at 1:22 PM on October 4, 2022 [3 favorites]
You know that Twilight Zone episode, "It's a Good Life"? The one with the kid who can control reality with his mind, and sends people he doesn't like to the cornfield, and no one dares to contradict him or stand up to him?
This news made me think of that episode.
posted by nubs at 1:25 PM on October 4, 2022 [14 favorites]
This news made me think of that episode.
posted by nubs at 1:25 PM on October 4, 2022 [14 favorites]
This might also have to do with evidence emerging in discovery that Peiter “Mudge” Zatko's extremely conveniently timed whistleblower report on Twitter bot fraud might not have been such a miraculous coincidence after all:
posted by star gentle uterus at 1:28 PM on October 4, 2022 [6 favorites]
But in court, Musk and Twitter have been fighting over an “unusual” email sent to Musk’s attorney Alex Spiro from an anonymous ProtonMail account on May 6th. The sender claimed to be “a former exec at Twitter leading teams directly involving Trust & Safety/Content Moderation” and offered Musk information on Twitter through alternate channels. Musk ultimately paused the deal in mid-May.Twitter was just granted their request to expand discovery for that matter yesterday.
posted by star gentle uterus at 1:28 PM on October 4, 2022 [6 favorites]
@Phineas: What if, instead of buying twitter, he dug a tunnel all the way down to actual hell and then went there and stayed what about that
posted by DirtyOldTown at 1:47 PM on October 4, 2022 [36 favorites]
posted by DirtyOldTown at 1:47 PM on October 4, 2022 [36 favorites]
This is a total tangent but I'm honestly surprised any of Elon's handlers still lets Elon have a microphone for longer than a few seconds at a time or he hasn't been corralled into any kind of rudimentary public speaking crash course because he's absolutely terrible at keeping his mumbling awkward laughs and heavy breathing away from a live microphone.
You'd think that after twenty odd years of this he would have at least learned to lower the mic or point it away from his piehole or would have had at least some vague situational awareness that he sounds like a sixth grader awkwardly trying to tell outdated adult jokes he doesn't understand or even correctly remember that he read in the back pages of an old copy of Hustler.
I mean yeah, knowing when to shut up definitely isn't his strong suit but... come on, in over twenty years of being in the public spotlight no one anywhere has ever showed him how to dip his microphone or operate the remote switch when he's not actually speaking?
posted by loquacious at 1:48 PM on October 4, 2022 [7 favorites]
You'd think that after twenty odd years of this he would have at least learned to lower the mic or point it away from his piehole or would have had at least some vague situational awareness that he sounds like a sixth grader awkwardly trying to tell outdated adult jokes he doesn't understand or even correctly remember that he read in the back pages of an old copy of Hustler.
I mean yeah, knowing when to shut up definitely isn't his strong suit but... come on, in over twenty years of being in the public spotlight no one anywhere has ever showed him how to dip his microphone or operate the remote switch when he's not actually speaking?
posted by loquacious at 1:48 PM on October 4, 2022 [7 favorites]
Mainly there's a lot of local stuff I follow on twitter that I'll be sorry to lose. Most of that will move over to Signal and Mastodon, and the trouble with that is going to be that it raises the barrier for participation - I stumbled across this stuff a year or so ago almost at random and it led me to a bunch of new political sources and projects, and anyone who is an Old and doesn't get Mastodon (which I don't, actually, but I assume that I'll figure it out) or doesn't know how to connect to get onto Signal groups is going to have trouble plugging in, and it's already hard enough to plug in if you're over about thirty.
posted by Frowner at 1:48 PM on October 4, 2022 [4 favorites]
posted by Frowner at 1:48 PM on October 4, 2022 [4 favorites]
Another option besides Signal and Mastodon is Discord, and that's really easy to plug into.
posted by I-Write-Essays at 1:55 PM on October 4, 2022 [5 favorites]
posted by I-Write-Essays at 1:55 PM on October 4, 2022 [5 favorites]
The discovery process was about to make something pretty terrible public, I'm guessing.
posted by aramaic at 1:55 PM on October 4, 2022 [14 favorites]
posted by aramaic at 1:55 PM on October 4, 2022 [14 favorites]
There are certain niche communities that I really like that will be hard to quit. Civic Tech, for example, probably wouldn’t exist in its current form without twitter.
posted by rockindata at 1:56 PM on October 4, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by rockindata at 1:56 PM on October 4, 2022 [1 favorite]
Does Elon realize Twitter will be on the hook for their hate filled nonsense if SCOTUS ditches section 230 of the CDA this summer?
How likely is that ruling, though? I really have no idea, so maybe someone with a better sense of what the 6 fascists think about the internet could offer their predictions?
posted by Saxon Kane at 1:56 PM on October 4, 2022 [4 favorites]
How likely is that ruling, though? I really have no idea, so maybe someone with a better sense of what the 6 fascists think about the internet could offer their predictions?
posted by Saxon Kane at 1:56 PM on October 4, 2022 [4 favorites]
I'm sad about it. In my professional niche -- indie publishing -- my contacts, clients and potential clients are all on twitter all day long. I've gotten job after job from relationships I've made on twitter. I don't have that many followers, maybe 1200-ish, but they're quality followers who almost all work inside my world.
I wonder what the replacement place will be but I really don't see one yet.
posted by BlahLaLa at 2:01 PM on October 4, 2022 [6 favorites]
I wonder what the replacement place will be but I really don't see one yet.
posted by BlahLaLa at 2:01 PM on October 4, 2022 [6 favorites]
I hope the replacement is not Instagram, because Instagram is a flaming garbage pile.
posted by acb at 2:03 PM on October 4, 2022 [9 favorites]
posted by acb at 2:03 PM on October 4, 2022 [9 favorites]
Let's fuck this whole thing up and all just go back to Friendster.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 2:21 PM on October 4, 2022 [11 favorites]
posted by DirtyOldTown at 2:21 PM on October 4, 2022 [11 favorites]
You know that MZ quote about the clown car?
Well Elon Musk's self-driving electric clown car just fell down the same shaft and it looks like the other clowns are going to get the gold in the end.
Either that or this is three-dimensional chess actually, but played with bean sprouts and a twenty-sided die, on Mars, without oxygen and using Calvinball rules, and live-streamed.
posted by chavenet at 2:23 PM on October 4, 2022 [1 favorite]
Well Elon Musk's self-driving electric clown car just fell down the same shaft and it looks like the other clowns are going to get the gold in the end.
Either that or this is three-dimensional chess actually, but played with bean sprouts and a twenty-sided die, on Mars, without oxygen and using Calvinball rules, and live-streamed.
posted by chavenet at 2:23 PM on October 4, 2022 [1 favorite]
Pissy text hot takes will never be overshadowed by Instagram pics. Photo editing is too time consuming. Although imagining what that might look like is honestly hilarious.
What happens when you're too boring for Twitter but too ugly for Instagram?
Reddit. That's what happens.
(kidding)
posted by ananci at 2:24 PM on October 4, 2022 [7 favorites]
What happens when you're too boring for Twitter but too ugly for Instagram?
Reddit. That's what happens.
(kidding)
posted by ananci at 2:24 PM on October 4, 2022 [7 favorites]
A food and his money something something....
posted by spilon at 2:24 PM on October 4, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by spilon at 2:24 PM on October 4, 2022 [1 favorite]
I’d suggest /r/antiwork/ for more dirtbag Marxist Mefites
/r/antiwork has kinda imploded. It got too popular, became very liberal (rather than leftist) and apparently one of the main mods is literally an FBI informant. I would avoid it, honestly.
posted by asnider at 2:24 PM on October 4, 2022 [11 favorites]
/r/antiwork has kinda imploded. It got too popular, became very liberal (rather than leftist) and apparently one of the main mods is literally an FBI informant. I would avoid it, honestly.
posted by asnider at 2:24 PM on October 4, 2022 [11 favorites]
we don't need no water let the motherfucker burn
posted by glonous keming at 2:25 PM on October 4, 2022 [11 favorites]
posted by glonous keming at 2:25 PM on October 4, 2022 [11 favorites]
Another option besides Signal and Mastodon is Discord, and that's really easy to plug into.
Agreed. Signal probably won't actually become too popular for huge groups, if I had to guess, just because it is primarily a chat app and doesn't translate well to huge, social-media style groups.
Mastodon may see a spike in users. It's the closest thing to Twitter and even most of the largest servers are better moderated than Twitter, except those that are decidedly "free speech zones." I didn't find it especially difficult to use, but following people who aren't on the same server as you can sometimes be weirdly convoluted depending on server settings and such (at least it used to be; I haven't actually logged into my accounts in a while).
Discord is probably most likely to see big gains. It is much better setup for social-media style conversations and being able to find communities specific to your interests (and then have those communities further subdivided into various channels to make it easier to find the stuff that you're most interested in) is really nice. It's not secure or private the way Signal is (neither is Mastodon, really, but at least the ability to hypothetically host your own single-user server means you don't have to give all your data to someone else), but it's got a lower barrier to entry and has a better UX for social-media type chats.
posted by asnider at 2:36 PM on October 4, 2022 [4 favorites]
Agreed. Signal probably won't actually become too popular for huge groups, if I had to guess, just because it is primarily a chat app and doesn't translate well to huge, social-media style groups.
Mastodon may see a spike in users. It's the closest thing to Twitter and even most of the largest servers are better moderated than Twitter, except those that are decidedly "free speech zones." I didn't find it especially difficult to use, but following people who aren't on the same server as you can sometimes be weirdly convoluted depending on server settings and such (at least it used to be; I haven't actually logged into my accounts in a while).
Discord is probably most likely to see big gains. It is much better setup for social-media style conversations and being able to find communities specific to your interests (and then have those communities further subdivided into various channels to make it easier to find the stuff that you're most interested in) is really nice. It's not secure or private the way Signal is (neither is Mastodon, really, but at least the ability to hypothetically host your own single-user server means you don't have to give all your data to someone else), but it's got a lower barrier to entry and has a better UX for social-media type chats.
posted by asnider at 2:36 PM on October 4, 2022 [4 favorites]
literally an FBI informant
Fascinating—would love to hear more about this.
posted by Ahmad Khani at 2:37 PM on October 4, 2022 [7 favorites]
Fascinating—would love to hear more about this.
posted by Ahmad Khani at 2:37 PM on October 4, 2022 [7 favorites]
Well I guess that means the Twitter account that sends people to threaten children's hospitals won't get permabanned after all. Trump will definitely come back. The networks of disabled activists, trans activists, and local activists I found through Twitter will go away or be targeted by Nazi scum.
It's fun to make fun of Twitter but it is pretty powerful and in Musk's hands, more dangerous to a lot of vulnerable people.
posted by emjaybee at 2:43 PM on October 4, 2022 [25 favorites]
It's fun to make fun of Twitter but it is pretty powerful and in Musk's hands, more dangerous to a lot of vulnerable people.
posted by emjaybee at 2:43 PM on October 4, 2022 [25 favorites]
I see that the crypto market is reacting to the rumor it will cost DOGE to tweet.
posted by NoThisIsPatrick at 2:44 PM on October 4, 2022
posted by NoThisIsPatrick at 2:44 PM on October 4, 2022
Well, it was a nice terrible website for a while.
posted by Going To Maine at 2:49 PM on October 4, 2022 [8 favorites]
posted by Going To Maine at 2:49 PM on October 4, 2022 [8 favorites]
Most of that will move over to Signal
What does this even mean? A big ol’ group chat?
posted by Going To Maine at 2:50 PM on October 4, 2022 [4 favorites]
What does this even mean? A big ol’ group chat?
posted by Going To Maine at 2:50 PM on October 4, 2022 [4 favorites]
/r/antiwork has kinda imploded.
That’s sad - I used to read it pretty heavily but fell off over the last year to skimming every few days. It’s definitely missing some teeth now but I still enjoy it when I read, hence the suggestion. Missed the apparent drama entirely, to which: yikes.
/r/politics remains a multiple times daily read for me and is basically a firehose of B+ US Newsfilter threads from Mefi’s more center-left half. Not everyone’s cuppa, but if you want US news and you’re from Metafilter it’s an ocean of “good if not amazing.”
Discord is probably most likely to see big gains.
Now that you’ve said it that seems obviously true and also terrifying. Discord’s got a mean streak of pepe memes and related for-the-lulz alt-right-adjacent culture that is far more widespread than other major English-speaking platforms. It’s just sort of the background radiation of the place and my impression is the societal impact of a Twitter-> Discord migration would be quite negative in the longterm. I hope you’re wrong, but…
posted by Ryvar at 2:53 PM on October 4, 2022 [4 favorites]
That’s sad - I used to read it pretty heavily but fell off over the last year to skimming every few days. It’s definitely missing some teeth now but I still enjoy it when I read, hence the suggestion. Missed the apparent drama entirely, to which: yikes.
/r/politics remains a multiple times daily read for me and is basically a firehose of B+ US Newsfilter threads from Mefi’s more center-left half. Not everyone’s cuppa, but if you want US news and you’re from Metafilter it’s an ocean of “good if not amazing.”
Discord is probably most likely to see big gains.
Now that you’ve said it that seems obviously true and also terrifying. Discord’s got a mean streak of pepe memes and related for-the-lulz alt-right-adjacent culture that is far more widespread than other major English-speaking platforms. It’s just sort of the background radiation of the place and my impression is the societal impact of a Twitter-> Discord migration would be quite negative in the longterm. I hope you’re wrong, but…
posted by Ryvar at 2:53 PM on October 4, 2022 [4 favorites]
Me, think I’ll move all my public social media activity to Bandcamp album reviews.
posted by Going To Maine at 2:58 PM on October 4, 2022 [24 favorites]
posted by Going To Maine at 2:58 PM on October 4, 2022 [24 favorites]
I think perhaps the reaction to Mr. Musk's recently released text messages might have convinced him not to go through much more discovery:
Elon Musk’s Texts Shatter the Myth of the Tech Genius: The world’s richest man has some embarrassing friends.
By Charlie Warzel, The Atlantic, 9/30/22
Elon Musk’s Texts Shatter the Myth of the Tech Genius: The world’s richest man has some embarrassing friends.
By Charlie Warzel, The Atlantic, 9/30/22
Yesterday, the world got a look inside Elon Musk’s phone. The Tesla and SpaceX CEO is currently in litigation with Twitter and trying to back out of his deal to buy the platform and take it private. As part of the discovery process related to this lawsuit, Delaware’s Court of Chancery released hundreds of text messages and emails sent to and from Musk. The 151-page redacted document is a remarkable, voyeuristic record of a few months in the life of the world’s richest (and most overexposed) man and a rare unvarnished glimpse into the overlapping worlds of Silicon Valley, media, and politics. The texts are juicy, but not because they are lurid, particularly offensive, or offer up some scandalous Muskian master plan—quite the opposite. What is so illuminating about the Musk messages is just how unimpressive, unimaginative, and sycophantic the powerful men in Musk’s contacts appear to be. Whoever said there are no bad ideas in brainstorming never had access to Elon Musk’s phone.posted by MrVisible at 2:58 PM on October 4, 2022 [25 favorites]
I don’t think Elon cares much what Charlie Warzel thinks about his texts, though. Not $54.20/share much.
posted by Going To Maine at 3:07 PM on October 4, 2022
posted by Going To Maine at 3:07 PM on October 4, 2022
Poor Matt Levine is going to have to interrupt his time off, again...
posted by mbrubeck at 3:12 PM on October 4, 2022 [5 favorites]
posted by mbrubeck at 3:12 PM on October 4, 2022 [5 favorites]
→
I'll be very disappointed if it turns out that Mudge sent that anonymous message to EM.
posted by scruss at 3:19 PM on October 4, 2022 [1 favorite]
Peiter “Mudge” Zatko's extremely conveniently timed whistleblower report
I'll be very disappointed if it turns out that Mudge sent that anonymous message to EM.
posted by scruss at 3:19 PM on October 4, 2022 [1 favorite]
From Kevin T. Dugan, writing for the Intelligencer blog at NYMag (2022/09/29), "Elon Musk Got Caught Deleting Messages — and 3 Other Takeaways From His Latest Court Hearing:
posted by mhum at 3:22 PM on October 4, 2022 [6 favorites]
There’s nothing wrong with using Signal, except if you’re supposed to preserve your communications because, say, you anticipate a giant and costly lawsuit, which, in Musk’s case, is exactly what he should have anticipated going back to at least May 13, a few weeks after the deal was announced. (That’s the date that his own lawyers say he expected to be in litigation). [...] Twitter claims that he had used Signal to communicate with his personal financier, Jared Birchall, about the deal, for instance — potentially after they would have started to talk about getting out of the deal. (Apparently, some sleep-deprived legal associate noticed that some screengrabs of what had been produced show that messages were primed to be deleted). And Team Musk’s response hasn’t exactly been great. Here was a key moment during the hearing:There's also some stuff in there about how Elon hired at least 5 different companies to try to validate his claim about bots on Twitter and yet never used any of those companies' findings in his own (legal) arguments. Also, it turns out that three of those companies weren't even mentioned by Elon and only came to light during discovery. Seems totally cool and above board.MUSK: The meat of this is that there actually is no evidence that we’ve destroyed evidence, and that’s the standard that they recite to the court. That is something —That feels bad.
CHANCELLOR MCCORMICK: They point to something that’s been destroyed.
MUSK: Sure, fair enough.
posted by mhum at 3:22 PM on October 4, 2022 [6 favorites]
The best possible outcome in my opinion: Twitter and Elon go belly up.
Maybe Tesla, too — unless something has changed dramatically in where he is getting money from to pay for Twitter, he'll have to drop a huge chunk of his personal ownership of the company on the market. Maybe even enough to get him out of the company for good?
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 3:22 PM on October 4, 2022
Maybe Tesla, too — unless something has changed dramatically in where he is getting money from to pay for Twitter, he'll have to drop a huge chunk of his personal ownership of the company on the market. Maybe even enough to get him out of the company for good?
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 3:22 PM on October 4, 2022
It doesn't look like they intend to try to get a better deal.
This is not an accurate reading of Twitter's statement. This is saying "we continue to want what we have asked for all along." Musk's letter does not offer that same thing in several crucial details. It's not all about the price. The informed legal observers I read all strongly believe that Twitter will not accept this as it is.
posted by primethyme at 3:25 PM on October 4, 2022 [4 favorites]
This is not an accurate reading of Twitter's statement. This is saying "we continue to want what we have asked for all along." Musk's letter does not offer that same thing in several crucial details. It's not all about the price. The informed legal observers I read all strongly believe that Twitter will not accept this as it is.
posted by primethyme at 3:25 PM on October 4, 2022 [4 favorites]
Somebody let me know where all the interesting people go please
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 3:32 PM on October 4, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 3:32 PM on October 4, 2022 [2 favorites]
They're here.
posted by I-Write-Essays at 3:35 PM on October 4, 2022 [28 favorites]
posted by I-Write-Essays at 3:35 PM on October 4, 2022 [28 favorites]
Somebody is very salty about being dunked on by most of the world for his idiot takes on Ukraine.
He didn't get mad. Please don't write in the newspaper that he got mad.
posted by fifteen schnitzengruben is my limit at 3:37 PM on October 4, 2022 [8 favorites]
He didn't get mad. Please don't write in the newspaper that he got mad.
posted by fifteen schnitzengruben is my limit at 3:37 PM on October 4, 2022 [8 favorites]
Ugh. The first time around, I thought people holding Twitter stock would look at the trainwreck and steer clear, but shareholders voted to approve the takeover last month.
posted by Pronoiac at 3:46 PM on October 4, 2022
posted by Pronoiac at 3:46 PM on October 4, 2022
Ugh. The first time around, I thought people holding Twitter stock would look at the trainwreck and steer clear, but shareholders voted to approve the takeover last month.
Shareholders don't give a dick about the business itself. Once they sell and get their profit (and let's face it, Elon's offer is well above what most people probably paid for it) their obligation ends. They got $54.20 a share when most of them probably paid less than $50. If someone wants to give you an insanely high amount of money for something you own and have no particular attachment to except as a way to make money passively, letting that person buy it at an insane price seems like a no brainer.
posted by Your Childhood Pet Rock at 3:49 PM on October 4, 2022 [10 favorites]
Shareholders don't give a dick about the business itself. Once they sell and get their profit (and let's face it, Elon's offer is well above what most people probably paid for it) their obligation ends. They got $54.20 a share when most of them probably paid less than $50. If someone wants to give you an insanely high amount of money for something you own and have no particular attachment to except as a way to make money passively, letting that person buy it at an insane price seems like a no brainer.
posted by Your Childhood Pet Rock at 3:49 PM on October 4, 2022 [10 favorites]
I suspect Musk was expecting to throw his weight around, make an offer, and get rejected again, after which he could whine that mean ol' Twitter wasn't helping him purge his followers of bots or freeze peach or whatever. Unfortunately, he decided to round up to a number ending in "420" (BECAUSE OF WEED GET IT) and TWTR was trading slightly above $44.20 at the time, resulting in an offer at a stupidly high $54.20. At that point, most shareholders shrugged and said, "Well, if you REALLY want it..."
posted by The Tensor at 4:00 PM on October 4, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by The Tensor at 4:00 PM on October 4, 2022 [3 favorites]
The problem isn't that I will see Trump on Twitter. I've never been a member! I don't care about Twitter.
The problem is that the fucking media will report on every stupid thing he tweets, allowing him to shape the narrative of US politics.
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 4:07 PM on October 4, 2022 [46 favorites]
The problem is that the fucking media will report on every stupid thing he tweets, allowing him to shape the narrative of US politics.
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 4:07 PM on October 4, 2022 [46 favorites]
I shall miss having Margaret Cho as a follower. OTOH I'm guessing that she will bail as well.
posted by Splunge at 4:13 PM on October 4, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by Splunge at 4:13 PM on October 4, 2022 [1 favorite]
I use signal but no one I know is on it so it just functions as a glorified SMS client.
posted by octothorpe at 4:20 PM on October 4, 2022 [4 favorites]
posted by octothorpe at 4:20 PM on October 4, 2022 [4 favorites]
Poor Matt Levine is going to have to interrupt his time off, again...
I infer he will be fasting for Yom Kippur and unlikely to try to post on an empty stomach.
posted by silby at 4:23 PM on October 4, 2022
I infer he will be fasting for Yom Kippur and unlikely to try to post on an empty stomach.
posted by silby at 4:23 PM on October 4, 2022
Nelson Mandela became South Africa's first Black President in 1994 a couple of months before Elon Musk's 13th birthday, and I'd bet that the white minority community was consumed with anxiety about what would happen to them in the event of a Black takeover for most of Elon's young life.
Elon moved to Canada when he was 17, and he became an American citizen in 2002.
And now his adopted country has an an emerging majority of non-white minorities, and one of our two main political parties is pitching itself almost exclusively to the members of the white community who feel embattled and are terrified of being "replaced", and is doing everything it can to amplify and play upon those fears.
I have no information on how Musk feels about what happened in South Africa, but I don’t think we can assume he is buying our most politically influential social media property on a whim or for mere vanity.
posted by jamjam at 4:50 PM on October 4, 2022 [14 favorites]
Elon moved to Canada when he was 17, and he became an American citizen in 2002.
And now his adopted country has an an emerging majority of non-white minorities, and one of our two main political parties is pitching itself almost exclusively to the members of the white community who feel embattled and are terrified of being "replaced", and is doing everything it can to amplify and play upon those fears.
I have no information on how Musk feels about what happened in South Africa, but I don’t think we can assume he is buying our most politically influential social media property on a whim or for mere vanity.
posted by jamjam at 4:50 PM on October 4, 2022 [14 favorites]
@nycsouthpaw has a copy of the letter and his succinct analysis:
"The text of the letter is helpful because (to my eyes, at least) it makes clear—much more clear than the news articles about it—that Musk is seeking an adjournment of the trial and his upcoming deposition without actually promising anything new or giving up anything at all.posted by JoeZydeco at 4:55 PM on October 4, 2022 [17 favorites]
The last 4 words are key. If the deal “otherwise fails to close” (i.e. if Musk decides he doesn’t want to again), then he’s in no worse position than he was today in the litigation, but he’ll have succeeded in delaying it for as long he entertains the deal process this time.
Of course, closing the deal on the agreed terms is the remedy Twitter is seeking from the court. So the offer is: “Give up your forcing mechanism for a while, with no compensation whatsoever from me, and see if it makes me more likely to do what you want.”
I keep wondering how hard it would _really_ be to make something similar to, but defensibly different from, the social media site in question, but with some kind of vetting/standard-for-wider-release/simulation of actual community information spread baked in. Interested doers, call me :)
posted by amtho at 5:40 PM on October 4, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by amtho at 5:40 PM on October 4, 2022 [1 favorite]
But don't forget you also have an alternative with the 'Truth' social media site where everyone who is left leaning should go to express their constitutional right to freedom of speech....
... sorry. I had a bad 80s flashback there...
posted by IndelibleUnderpants at 5:41 PM on October 4, 2022
... sorry. I had a bad 80s flashback there...
posted by IndelibleUnderpants at 5:41 PM on October 4, 2022
> JoeZydeco: "@nycsouthpaw has a copy of the letter and his succinct analysis"
I found this analysis very persuasive. And seeing the actual text of the letter really highlights how it seems that the main purpose of this offer is to stop the litigation. For some reason, when I was reading the news summaries of this, I somehow got the impression that the "adjourn the trial" part was just a kind of boilerplate or pro forma stipulation. However, it really doesn't seem that way to me now. Which then leads to the natural question, "why does Elon want to avoid court so badly?" I imagine because he realizes that it's likely gonna be pretty darn embarrassing for him.
posted by mhum at 5:46 PM on October 4, 2022 [6 favorites]
I found this analysis very persuasive. And seeing the actual text of the letter really highlights how it seems that the main purpose of this offer is to stop the litigation. For some reason, when I was reading the news summaries of this, I somehow got the impression that the "adjourn the trial" part was just a kind of boilerplate or pro forma stipulation. However, it really doesn't seem that way to me now. Which then leads to the natural question, "why does Elon want to avoid court so badly?" I imagine because he realizes that it's likely gonna be pretty darn embarrassing for him.
posted by mhum at 5:46 PM on October 4, 2022 [6 favorites]
Elon has faced many trials. But he has not yet conquered @dril.
posted by delfin at 6:08 PM on October 4, 2022 [15 favorites]
posted by delfin at 6:08 PM on October 4, 2022 [15 favorites]
I laughed when I saw the legal term "Musk parties", because it sounds like Tupperware parties, but smelling heinous.
posted by Pronoiac at 6:44 PM on October 4, 2022 [6 favorites]
posted by Pronoiac at 6:44 PM on October 4, 2022 [6 favorites]
ctrl/f "Three Stigmata of Palmer Eldritch" = zero hits
I'm disappointed.
posted by philip-random at 7:01 PM on October 4, 2022 [2 favorites]
I'm disappointed.
posted by philip-random at 7:01 PM on October 4, 2022 [2 favorites]
I'm clearly in the minority of the world, but I like twitter - I use it solely as a news aggregator and for getting up to the minute news. I rarely comment, I rarely read comments and I detest Elon Musk. There may be other as good ways to do this but as an example, the videos of young women protesting in Iran that were posted on Twitter today were amazing. I'm sad he's going to ruin it.
posted by bluesky43 at 7:14 PM on October 4, 2022 [20 favorites]
posted by bluesky43 at 7:14 PM on October 4, 2022 [20 favorites]
I just wanted to butt in to say that it is possible to follow Twitter content sources and your favourite communities. Instead of a follow button, you'll need to use Feedbin.
posted by cihan at 7:22 PM on October 4, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by cihan at 7:22 PM on October 4, 2022 [1 favorite]
I get a ton of news from on the ground in Palestine that I wouldn't otherwise have access to. This is disappointing news.
posted by Ahmad Khani at 7:25 PM on October 4, 2022 [9 favorites]
posted by Ahmad Khani at 7:25 PM on October 4, 2022 [9 favorites]
I think my general vibe is still that Elon still doesn’t want to run Twitter. This is a delaying tactic. If Twitter accepts he’ll dither his way out of it for a settlement at some point in the future. If Twitter doesn’t accept, he’ll negotiate a settlement sooner. The big question is if Twitter can get a settlement to get out of the merger that’s larger than the share price before Elon made the offer.
It looks like $TWTR closed at $52, so if you’ve got shares I would sell em before all of this goes sideways. Of course, I’m also a terrible prognosticator.
posted by Going To Maine at 7:51 PM on October 4, 2022 [3 favorites]
It looks like $TWTR closed at $52, so if you’ve got shares I would sell em before all of this goes sideways. Of course, I’m also a terrible prognosticator.
posted by Going To Maine at 7:51 PM on October 4, 2022 [3 favorites]
I use it solely as a news aggregator and for getting up to the minute news.
I suppose my question would be, how often do I really need up to the minute news? It's not as if I can do ANYTHING about 99.999 percent of it. Not in the next minute or two anyway.
posted by philip-random at 8:21 PM on October 4, 2022 [5 favorites]
I suppose my question would be, how often do I really need up to the minute news? It's not as if I can do ANYTHING about 99.999 percent of it. Not in the next minute or two anyway.
posted by philip-random at 8:21 PM on October 4, 2022 [5 favorites]
The problem isn't that I will see Trump on Twitter. I've never been a member! I don't care about Twitter.
The problem is that the fucking media will report on every stupid thing he tweets, allowing him to shape the narrative of US politics
I mean, he's the most recent ex president of the US, why shouldn't the media report on what he has to say? Why is this so controversial? The fact that media coverage is determined by the ownership and policies of Twitter is just sickeningly heinous to me. Fuck twitter.
posted by Wood at 8:44 PM on October 4, 2022
The problem is that the fucking media will report on every stupid thing he tweets, allowing him to shape the narrative of US politics
I mean, he's the most recent ex president of the US, why shouldn't the media report on what he has to say? Why is this so controversial? The fact that media coverage is determined by the ownership and policies of Twitter is just sickeningly heinous to me. Fuck twitter.
posted by Wood at 8:44 PM on October 4, 2022
The problem is that the fucking media will report on every stupid thing [Trump] tweets, allowing him to shape the narrative of US politics
Which is also true of Elon's tweets. Seems that he might be interested not only in managing news cycles but minimizing platform interference for that management. Even if he doesn't intend that, Elon's disinterest in addressing people's widespread concerns about that kind of conflict keeps him unsuitable for leading any kind of commons.
Twitter is my main news delivery medium
I use it solely as a news aggregator and for getting up to the minute news.
And because this is true of millions, and among those a large amount of journalists, it feels like private chat solutions can't effectively replace Twitter as a (sort-of-)public commons given each chat group's total addressable audience will be relatively small compared to Twitter.
I think a Twitter replacement should start from scratch so it has a better chance to avoid growing into yet another media empire that gives equal weight to mal/mis/disinformation. But if that replacement's experience isn't carefully designed from the start to support news-based use cases then news media won't post to it and we won't have a better headline-news delivery system than Elon will allow at Twitter.
posted by massless at 8:45 PM on October 4, 2022 [3 favorites]
Which is also true of Elon's tweets. Seems that he might be interested not only in managing news cycles but minimizing platform interference for that management. Even if he doesn't intend that, Elon's disinterest in addressing people's widespread concerns about that kind of conflict keeps him unsuitable for leading any kind of commons.
Twitter is my main news delivery medium
I use it solely as a news aggregator and for getting up to the minute news.
And because this is true of millions, and among those a large amount of journalists, it feels like private chat solutions can't effectively replace Twitter as a (sort-of-)public commons given each chat group's total addressable audience will be relatively small compared to Twitter.
I think a Twitter replacement should start from scratch so it has a better chance to avoid growing into yet another media empire that gives equal weight to mal/mis/disinformation. But if that replacement's experience isn't carefully designed from the start to support news-based use cases then news media won't post to it and we won't have a better headline-news delivery system than Elon will allow at Twitter.
posted by massless at 8:45 PM on October 4, 2022 [3 favorites]
I'm clearly in the minority of the world, but I like twitter
I also like Twitter. I follow a lot of disability activists, abolitionists, trans activists, and historians, and I've leaned a lot over the years. And Jorts. Twitter is good for things like Jorts. And darth. I'll stay on twitter as long as darth is there.
posted by Mavri at 8:52 PM on October 4, 2022 [13 favorites]
I also like Twitter. I follow a lot of disability activists, abolitionists, trans activists, and historians, and I've leaned a lot over the years. And Jorts. Twitter is good for things like Jorts. And darth. I'll stay on twitter as long as darth is there.
posted by Mavri at 8:52 PM on October 4, 2022 [13 favorites]
Twitter is one of the many things that Metafilter as a whole loves to pour hate on. It has its bad parts to be sure but so does every major internet site. It's not hard to curate a list of good and interesting people, block/mute the few bad people that those people engage with, and have a good experience there. At least 2/3rds of the people I follow are some combination of non-male, LGBT, or a minority and would you believe that keeps the majority of the dreck from coming near my feed?
posted by Candleman at 8:59 PM on October 4, 2022 [15 favorites]
posted by Candleman at 8:59 PM on October 4, 2022 [15 favorites]
From what I can tell, the majority of the world likes Twitter just fine; MetaFilter seems to have much less engagement than it did when I started here, back in the '00s, and generally a less substantial, meme-heavier style of blogging is the fashion now. I like Twitter, but I think it's a problem. I think it crushes our thoughts down into ugly little dwarfish things. Thoughts that should be big get small. Trivia, because of its digestibility, is blown out of proportion. And unfortunately, Twitter really is real life. Twitter and Facebook elected Trump. They gave MAGA a place where it could thrive. Far right thought, such as it is, grows best in shallow soil.
I think Musk is full of shit; I won't believe he's buying Twitter until he actually buys it. He's the Gen X Trump -- a consummate bullshit artist. But every time he rises to the top of Twitter discourse, the world becomes a worse place.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 9:20 PM on October 4, 2022 [11 favorites]
I think Musk is full of shit; I won't believe he's buying Twitter until he actually buys it. He's the Gen X Trump -- a consummate bullshit artist. But every time he rises to the top of Twitter discourse, the world becomes a worse place.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 9:20 PM on October 4, 2022 [11 favorites]
I think a Twitter replacement should start from scratch so it has a better chance to avoid growing merely delays growing back into yet another media empire that gives equal weight to mal/mis/disinformation.
I mean let's be realistic here....
posted by Greg_Ace at 9:22 PM on October 4, 2022 [2 favorites]
I mean let's be realistic here....
posted by Greg_Ace at 9:22 PM on October 4, 2022 [2 favorites]
Yes, nycsouthpaw and daily_chancery are correct in their analysis, or at least correct in identifying the attitude that Twitter has to take until the deal actually closes. "That's nice. Trial prep will continue until the check clears."
I don’t think Elon cares much what Charlie Warzel thinks about his texts, though. Not $54.20/share much.
I'm usually of this school, but this particular guy? The whole Western world's been rolling its eyes at him and going "get a load of this dork and his doofus friends" for the past couple of days, and I think there's a decent chance it really bugged him.
posted by praemunire at 9:24 PM on October 4, 2022 [8 favorites]
I don’t think Elon cares much what Charlie Warzel thinks about his texts, though. Not $54.20/share much.
I'm usually of this school, but this particular guy? The whole Western world's been rolling its eyes at him and going "get a load of this dork and his doofus friends" for the past couple of days, and I think there's a decent chance it really bugged him.
posted by praemunire at 9:24 PM on October 4, 2022 [8 favorites]
I kind of like Twitter; I use it to follow some rather boring local government agencies ("power outage in the neighborhood"), the creative works of SwiftOnSecurity, pure one-note joke/satire accounts, and people who don't post often enough or long enough to merit a full-on blog (like Metafilter user #1). I'll probably miss the latter the most, and they are the most likely to simply disappear. But I stay away from anyone who reposts a lot, is trying to build their "clout", or gets into long involved meaningless arguments.
But I recognize that 140 character hot takes, broadcast to the world, probably isn't the best communications medium.
posted by meowzilla at 10:19 PM on October 4, 2022 [4 favorites]
But I recognize that 140 character hot takes, broadcast to the world, probably isn't the best communications medium.
posted by meowzilla at 10:19 PM on October 4, 2022 [4 favorites]
As a non-american, twitter is just a lot more valuable than most other places online, and it's structurally incentivized to be so (outside of the gravity well of established usage). There are little bubbles of various kinds of twitter -- when the day comes when twitter is functionally useless, I'll definitely pour one out.
posted by cendawanita at 10:39 PM on October 4, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by cendawanita at 10:39 PM on October 4, 2022 [3 favorites]
The last time there was a lot of fussing about Twitter micro.blog had a noticeable lift in signups.
It’s an interesting mashup of a Twitter-like feed and plain old blogging, with supplemental apps that facet the content, allowing it to serve as a photo sharing platform, a podcasting home base, a Goodreads-style bookshelf, etc. It skirts around gamification by keeping bookmarks private to the person making them. You don’t see “likes” and so cannot perform to get them. If you like someone’s picture or post, you can say so in the feed by replying to them and maybe sparking a conversation. There are some amazing photographers who are very kind and supportive of my eclecticism.
I’m not sure if it’s the people I follow, the community moderation, or what, but it is a calm and kind place compared to pretty much everywhere I’ve been online. I’ve replaced Instagram with it, and it is mostly where I post to Twitter from. I feel like time spent scrolling the feed usually nets me a quiet conversation I can watch go by or an interesting link.
To compare it to Metafilter, it’s reminiscent of “here’s a cool thing” posts nobody is in the mood to fight about. Every now and then someone gets upset about something and the mood just seems to be “okay, I hear you and I’m sorry that’s happening for you.” Again, could just be my small follow count and the people I’m following.
To compare it to Reddit, it’s less, uh, emotionally violent, I guess, than some subs. I don’t think I’ve seen “soy,” “beta,” “simp” or “cuck” once (outside recipes and software posts).
To compare it to Twitter, no tweet storms, no widespread belief that it is a site of struggle, slower and quieter.
There’s a strong vibe of community building, “own your own data,” and de-gamification.
Plus, like I said, it acts like a regular blog, too, if you want that. I use it to keep my professional writing “portfolio” site clear of digressions, picture posts and mini book reviews or links.
Oh, also allows cross post to Twitter, Mastodon, and maybe LinkedIn? I’m on a Masto instance for photography and have to remember to keep my spicy takes off micro.blog, one because I don’t want to crap up my mb neighborhood, but two because the kindly mod of my masto instance deletes the cross posted takes to keep it peaceful.
posted by mph at 10:49 PM on October 4, 2022 [8 favorites]
It’s an interesting mashup of a Twitter-like feed and plain old blogging, with supplemental apps that facet the content, allowing it to serve as a photo sharing platform, a podcasting home base, a Goodreads-style bookshelf, etc. It skirts around gamification by keeping bookmarks private to the person making them. You don’t see “likes” and so cannot perform to get them. If you like someone’s picture or post, you can say so in the feed by replying to them and maybe sparking a conversation. There are some amazing photographers who are very kind and supportive of my eclecticism.
I’m not sure if it’s the people I follow, the community moderation, or what, but it is a calm and kind place compared to pretty much everywhere I’ve been online. I’ve replaced Instagram with it, and it is mostly where I post to Twitter from. I feel like time spent scrolling the feed usually nets me a quiet conversation I can watch go by or an interesting link.
To compare it to Metafilter, it’s reminiscent of “here’s a cool thing” posts nobody is in the mood to fight about. Every now and then someone gets upset about something and the mood just seems to be “okay, I hear you and I’m sorry that’s happening for you.” Again, could just be my small follow count and the people I’m following.
To compare it to Reddit, it’s less, uh, emotionally violent, I guess, than some subs. I don’t think I’ve seen “soy,” “beta,” “simp” or “cuck” once (outside recipes and software posts).
To compare it to Twitter, no tweet storms, no widespread belief that it is a site of struggle, slower and quieter.
There’s a strong vibe of community building, “own your own data,” and de-gamification.
Plus, like I said, it acts like a regular blog, too, if you want that. I use it to keep my professional writing “portfolio” site clear of digressions, picture posts and mini book reviews or links.
Oh, also allows cross post to Twitter, Mastodon, and maybe LinkedIn? I’m on a Masto instance for photography and have to remember to keep my spicy takes off micro.blog, one because I don’t want to crap up my mb neighborhood, but two because the kindly mod of my masto instance deletes the cross posted takes to keep it peaceful.
posted by mph at 10:49 PM on October 4, 2022 [8 favorites]
Without Twitter, would the Iceland Cricket Association even exist?
posted by tavegyl at 11:32 PM on October 4, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by tavegyl at 11:32 PM on October 4, 2022 [1 favorite]
The link from JoeZydeco above is extremely worth reading. It really looks like Musk is saying stop the trial! but not making any new concrete promises.
I think they'd be mad to do anything but ignore it and carry on as-is until the money's in their account.
posted by Just this guy, y'know at 4:54 AM on October 5, 2022 [3 favorites]
I think they'd be mad to do anything but ignore it and carry on as-is until the money's in their account.
posted by Just this guy, y'know at 4:54 AM on October 5, 2022 [3 favorites]
And unfortunately, Twitter really is real life. Twitter and Facebook elected Trump. They gave MAGA a place where it could thrive.
Yep. My family still doesn't understand why I'm not on Facebook. Absolutely too evil. 2016 was too much for me. Add in that both are a disturbing waste of time and energy for me as well, and...no.
posted by tiny frying pan at 5:06 AM on October 5, 2022 [1 favorite]
Yep. My family still doesn't understand why I'm not on Facebook. Absolutely too evil. 2016 was too much for me. Add in that both are a disturbing waste of time and energy for me as well, and...no.
posted by tiny frying pan at 5:06 AM on October 5, 2022 [1 favorite]
Agreed about the usefulness of JoeZydeco's link above. mhum's link to the NYMag article is also useful, detailing how the discovery process revealed Musk destroyed evidence, which potentially puts him on the hook for Twitter's massive legal costs, and also that Musk apparently hid the fact that multiple analysts he hired told him Twitter's bot numbers were accurate. He'll say anything right now to slow down a trial.
posted by mediareport at 6:11 AM on October 5, 2022 [5 favorites]
posted by mediareport at 6:11 AM on October 5, 2022 [5 favorites]
I mean, he's the most recent ex president of the US, why shouldn't the media report on what he has to say? Why is this so controversial? The fact that media coverage is determined by the ownership and policies of Twitter is just sickeningly heinous to me. Fuck twitter
Not only is the president as capable (well his people anyways) of issuing a press release as anyone else he controls a social media platform. {I mean it is not successful but that is on brand for him.} And he regularly holds televised rallies across the US which i understand hundreds of people attend. Twitter is not in anyway preventing his views from reaching the media. If anything Trump himself is the problem by charging upwards of $4000 a piece for tickets to his American Freedom Tour.
I almost hope Musk buys twitter, reinstates the cheetos account, gets tired of it and sells it after yet another pump and dump, and then the new owners ban Trump again just so i can watch the wholly predicable meltdown.
posted by Mitheral at 6:15 AM on October 5, 2022 [4 favorites]
Not only is the president as capable (well his people anyways) of issuing a press release as anyone else he controls a social media platform. {I mean it is not successful but that is on brand for him.} And he regularly holds televised rallies across the US which i understand hundreds of people attend. Twitter is not in anyway preventing his views from reaching the media. If anything Trump himself is the problem by charging upwards of $4000 a piece for tickets to his American Freedom Tour.
I almost hope Musk buys twitter, reinstates the cheetos account, gets tired of it and sells it after yet another pump and dump, and then the new owners ban Trump again just so i can watch the wholly predicable meltdown.
posted by Mitheral at 6:15 AM on October 5, 2022 [4 favorites]
The Verge has a snarky but useful rundown.
posted by humbug at 6:43 AM on October 5, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by humbug at 6:43 AM on October 5, 2022 [1 favorite]
I'd be as happy as the next gal to see Elon go bankrupt, but I have to say, I will miss twitter. It may be one of the great hell sites, but it was my circle of hell, damn it!
posted by sohalt at 7:00 AM on October 5, 2022 [5 favorites]
posted by sohalt at 7:00 AM on October 5, 2022 [5 favorites]
I'm trying to work out in my mind how best to put this.
Do I expect anything good to come out of Musk's acquisition? No. Rule changes, enforcement changes, whatever group of dingbats he delegates to micromanage content will degrade the system's signal/noise ratio dramatically.
But I am a veteran of USENET... pre-Endless September and post-Spam Wars. I am a Something Awful goon of twenty years' tenure. I have been involved in dialup BBSes, a wide variety of online forums such as this one, and many other forms of and media dedicated to online communication.
I used Twitter before Trump and his most obnoxious minions got banned. I managed then, and I manage now, and I expect to manage just fine going forward. Yes, they will pump Twitter with misinformation, foul content and insanity... but that's a change in volume, not in content. It's all there now. Every word that Trump speaks gets retweeted seconds later, both by Trumpoids and by lefty sites desperate to expose Trump's latest insanity. Cracking down on Ivermectin Cures Everything and Fauci Spreads Disease For Soros and Hunter Biden Is Hitler's Spirit Vessel claptrap is a futile Whac-a-Mole game under current management; knock out one and four more @Username94847172s pop up in its place. It's everywhere on Twitter NOW.
So I try not to read that stuff.
I follow intelligent and funny people, I read and respond to what they post, and I skim by the rest without paying much attention to it. It worked for talk.bizarre in 1992 and it worked for many online forums and it'll work in a new Musk Twitter world. Every form of digital communication turns into Diamonds in Shit in Shit in Shit without extremely vigorous moderation, so that's the baseline I expect and that I receive.
Twitter stops being useful and entertaining when people stop posting useful and entertaining things to it. Those things being surrounded by excrement grenades is both expected and occasionally useful; dunking on complete mindless idiots can be one of our most cost-effective entertainment values.
And as an eternal soldier in the Shitposting Army, my tour of duty continues on regardless.
posted by delfin at 7:35 AM on October 5, 2022 [14 favorites]
Do I expect anything good to come out of Musk's acquisition? No. Rule changes, enforcement changes, whatever group of dingbats he delegates to micromanage content will degrade the system's signal/noise ratio dramatically.
But I am a veteran of USENET... pre-Endless September and post-Spam Wars. I am a Something Awful goon of twenty years' tenure. I have been involved in dialup BBSes, a wide variety of online forums such as this one, and many other forms of and media dedicated to online communication.
I used Twitter before Trump and his most obnoxious minions got banned. I managed then, and I manage now, and I expect to manage just fine going forward. Yes, they will pump Twitter with misinformation, foul content and insanity... but that's a change in volume, not in content. It's all there now. Every word that Trump speaks gets retweeted seconds later, both by Trumpoids and by lefty sites desperate to expose Trump's latest insanity. Cracking down on Ivermectin Cures Everything and Fauci Spreads Disease For Soros and Hunter Biden Is Hitler's Spirit Vessel claptrap is a futile Whac-a-Mole game under current management; knock out one and four more @Username94847172s pop up in its place. It's everywhere on Twitter NOW.
So I try not to read that stuff.
I follow intelligent and funny people, I read and respond to what they post, and I skim by the rest without paying much attention to it. It worked for talk.bizarre in 1992 and it worked for many online forums and it'll work in a new Musk Twitter world. Every form of digital communication turns into Diamonds in Shit in Shit in Shit without extremely vigorous moderation, so that's the baseline I expect and that I receive.
Twitter stops being useful and entertaining when people stop posting useful and entertaining things to it. Those things being surrounded by excrement grenades is both expected and occasionally useful; dunking on complete mindless idiots can be one of our most cost-effective entertainment values.
And as an eternal soldier in the Shitposting Army, my tour of duty continues on regardless.
posted by delfin at 7:35 AM on October 5, 2022 [14 favorites]
I used Twitter before Trump and his most obnoxious minions got banned. I managed then, and I manage now, and I expect to manage just fine going forward. Yes, they will pump Twitter with misinformation, foul content and insanity... but that's a change in volume, not in content. It's all there now. Every word that Trump speaks gets retweeted seconds later, both by Trumpoids and by lefty sites desperate to expose Trump's latest insanity. Cracking down on Ivermectin Cures Everything and Fauci Spreads Disease For Soros and Hunter Biden Is Hitler's Spirit Vessel claptrap is a futile Whac-a-Mole game under current management; knock out one and four more @Username94847172s pop up in its place. It's everywhere on Twitter NOW.
So I try not to read that stuff.
Once again, it's not about just you. You don't listen to misinformation and disinformation? Cool - that doesn't change the fact that a lot of other people do, and that has material consequences for those targeted by it.
I recommend that if you can (because it is some fucking soul-withering stuff) that you read up on the testimony of the Sandy Hook families from the past two and a half weeks, and how their lives have been ruined by disinformation targeting them. Or read this thread about how a transgender teacher had her life thrown through the ringer thanks to Libs of TikTok (which Twitter refuses to ban even though their behavior clearly violates Twitter's ToS.)
Furthermore, all those platforms that you mentioned being a "veteran of" never had the scope or reach of Twitter, which has shown why the "just fork/ignore it" model of conflict "resolution" doesn't work (and frankly has never worked.) There are real harms happening, and averting our eyes to them isn't an answer.
posted by NoxAeternum at 8:13 AM on October 5, 2022 [22 favorites]
So I try not to read that stuff.
Once again, it's not about just you. You don't listen to misinformation and disinformation? Cool - that doesn't change the fact that a lot of other people do, and that has material consequences for those targeted by it.
I recommend that if you can (because it is some fucking soul-withering stuff) that you read up on the testimony of the Sandy Hook families from the past two and a half weeks, and how their lives have been ruined by disinformation targeting them. Or read this thread about how a transgender teacher had her life thrown through the ringer thanks to Libs of TikTok (which Twitter refuses to ban even though their behavior clearly violates Twitter's ToS.)
Furthermore, all those platforms that you mentioned being a "veteran of" never had the scope or reach of Twitter, which has shown why the "just fork/ignore it" model of conflict "resolution" doesn't work (and frankly has never worked.) There are real harms happening, and averting our eyes to them isn't an answer.
posted by NoxAeternum at 8:13 AM on October 5, 2022 [22 favorites]
Twitter is not in anyway preventing his views from reaching the media.
I don't disagree. I'm not speaking in favor of the ex-president being on twitter. I'm disturbed by the media accepting twitter's judgment as a substitute for their own and the acceptance of twitter as a gatekeeper writ large. Twitter should keep its own gates of course.
posted by Wood at 8:21 AM on October 5, 2022 [1 favorite]
I don't disagree. I'm not speaking in favor of the ex-president being on twitter. I'm disturbed by the media accepting twitter's judgment as a substitute for their own and the acceptance of twitter as a gatekeeper writ large. Twitter should keep its own gates of course.
posted by Wood at 8:21 AM on October 5, 2022 [1 favorite]
I recommend that if you can (because it is some fucking soul-withering stuff) that you read up on the testimony of the Sandy Hook families from the past two and a half weeks, and how their lives have been ruined by disinformation targeting them. Or read this thread about how a transgender teacher had her life thrown through the ringer thanks to Libs of TikTok (which Twitter refuses to ban even though their behavior clearly violates Twitter's ToS.)
Which is kind of my point -- that current moderation and content reporting have failed to protect the vulnerable on Twitter (and pretty much everywhere else. Twitter is FAR from the only medium spreading those kinds of hate and bullshit.)
A Musk-ed Twitter is a further-degraded version of Twitter. No argument there. But "this is the death of Twitter" implies that it was alive and well before, which it wasn't and can't be for most practical purposes. Gigantic reach, inclusive membership, and pruned-of-misinformation-and-abuse are mutually exclusive due to the large percentage of our fellow man that are, to put a word on it, malformed.
Fighting disinformation and hate on Twitter and keeping Twitter reasonably useful and entertaining are parallel goals, and are both worthy goals. They're both worth fighting for. Time will tell whether our collected efforts make either possible.
posted by delfin at 8:41 AM on October 5, 2022 [2 favorites]
Which is kind of my point -- that current moderation and content reporting have failed to protect the vulnerable on Twitter (and pretty much everywhere else. Twitter is FAR from the only medium spreading those kinds of hate and bullshit.)
A Musk-ed Twitter is a further-degraded version of Twitter. No argument there. But "this is the death of Twitter" implies that it was alive and well before, which it wasn't and can't be for most practical purposes. Gigantic reach, inclusive membership, and pruned-of-misinformation-and-abuse are mutually exclusive due to the large percentage of our fellow man that are, to put a word on it, malformed.
Fighting disinformation and hate on Twitter and keeping Twitter reasonably useful and entertaining are parallel goals, and are both worthy goals. They're both worth fighting for. Time will tell whether our collected efforts make either possible.
posted by delfin at 8:41 AM on October 5, 2022 [2 favorites]
If Twitter turns into Kiwi Farms, whether you can carefully hive off a corner where you only see cat pictures and posts by nice people is irrelevant.
posted by acb at 8:57 AM on October 5, 2022 [4 favorites]
posted by acb at 8:57 AM on October 5, 2022 [4 favorites]
Matt Levine thinks the deal will go through.
posted by Going To Maine at 9:02 AM on October 5, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by Going To Maine at 9:02 AM on October 5, 2022 [1 favorite]
Dan Luu put all the text conversations regarding Musk and the Twitter acquisition through OCR and posted them here: Chat log exhibits from Twitter v. Musk case
posted by meowzilla at 9:54 AM on October 5, 2022 [5 favorites]
posted by meowzilla at 9:54 AM on October 5, 2022 [5 favorites]
I'm disturbed by the media accepting twitter's judgment as a substitute for their own and the acceptance of twitter as a gatekeeper writ large.
The problem is not the media ecosystem looking to twitter for guidance on someone's words being newsworthy; that wasn't happening in the first place. The news wasn't all Trump all the time because Twitter had deemed Trump newsworthy, and it didn't fall off because they decided he shouldn't be; Twitter was just a substrate across which Trump and his armies of opportunists and dipshits were able to make a great deal of noise, and noise that gets clicks becomes news coverage regardless of the substrate.
Twitter did a good thing banning Trump, probably didn't do it for particularly laudable reasons in reality, certainly did it far too late. The media didn't accept that as an amended judgement of newsworthiness, it just got harder for Trump to make outsized amount of noise, and so the volume of reflexive transcription of his latest bullshit fell accordingly.
To bring it back around: to the extent that Musk ownership of twitter makes a reinstated Trump more likely isn't even a comment on how Musk feels about Trump; it's a comment on how Musk feels about maintaining the ability for loud bullshitting assholes to keep their megaphone. Because Musk loves his.
posted by cortex at 10:08 AM on October 5, 2022 [8 favorites]
The problem is not the media ecosystem looking to twitter for guidance on someone's words being newsworthy; that wasn't happening in the first place. The news wasn't all Trump all the time because Twitter had deemed Trump newsworthy, and it didn't fall off because they decided he shouldn't be; Twitter was just a substrate across which Trump and his armies of opportunists and dipshits were able to make a great deal of noise, and noise that gets clicks becomes news coverage regardless of the substrate.
Twitter did a good thing banning Trump, probably didn't do it for particularly laudable reasons in reality, certainly did it far too late. The media didn't accept that as an amended judgement of newsworthiness, it just got harder for Trump to make outsized amount of noise, and so the volume of reflexive transcription of his latest bullshit fell accordingly.
To bring it back around: to the extent that Musk ownership of twitter makes a reinstated Trump more likely isn't even a comment on how Musk feels about Trump; it's a comment on how Musk feels about maintaining the ability for loud bullshitting assholes to keep their megaphone. Because Musk loves his.
posted by cortex at 10:08 AM on October 5, 2022 [8 favorites]
If Musk wants the chance to lose a few billion dollars -- which is what Twitter has done historically, only becoming profitable in 2019 when it started cracking down on abusive accounts -- I don't see a problem. The current ownership of Twitter includes Al Waleed Bin Talal, and the Saudis have already leveraged the platform for some pretty shitty things.
posted by Dark Messiah at 10:18 AM on October 5, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by Dark Messiah at 10:18 AM on October 5, 2022 [1 favorite]
Twitter was just a substrate across which Trump and his armies of opportunists and dipshits were able to make a great deal of noise, and noise that gets clicks becomes news coverage regardless of the substrate.
Ok, I agree it's more complicated, and if I understand you correctly, sure: a nonsensical barf from Trump that he issues as a press release is different than that same spew as posted on twitter because of a bunch of stuff that happens on twitter. Suffice it say that I don't think twitter was a responsible vessel for the power it has before Musk. And I think the focus on "banning Trump" and any kudos they receive are greatly overplayed. They make a vast number of decisions affecting a sizable chunk of the whole world. No one should have that power. Twitter shouldn't exist, and I hope Musk destroys it.
I don't think whatever good it does can justify its structure. And the change of ownership to Musk is not a fundamental change in structure, it's just a change in ownership. The good it does was always contingent on the beneficence of a US for-profit corporation. It was not something people worldwide could ever rely on.
People with functional governments need to regulate the FUCK out of social networks. Not lobby and beseech corporate masters.
posted by Wood at 10:36 AM on October 5, 2022 [2 favorites]
Ok, I agree it's more complicated, and if I understand you correctly, sure: a nonsensical barf from Trump that he issues as a press release is different than that same spew as posted on twitter because of a bunch of stuff that happens on twitter. Suffice it say that I don't think twitter was a responsible vessel for the power it has before Musk. And I think the focus on "banning Trump" and any kudos they receive are greatly overplayed. They make a vast number of decisions affecting a sizable chunk of the whole world. No one should have that power. Twitter shouldn't exist, and I hope Musk destroys it.
I don't think whatever good it does can justify its structure. And the change of ownership to Musk is not a fundamental change in structure, it's just a change in ownership. The good it does was always contingent on the beneficence of a US for-profit corporation. It was not something people worldwide could ever rely on.
People with functional governments need to regulate the FUCK out of social networks. Not lobby and beseech corporate masters.
posted by Wood at 10:36 AM on October 5, 2022 [2 favorites]
If we're closing in on "massive-scale social media structures that have outpaced any capacity for responsible moderation and ethical administration are bad for the world and shouldn't exist as such" then we're entirely on the same page there, yeah. Whether and how effectively and quickly Musk's ownership would actually end up outright torpedoing Twitter vs. just making it an incrementally stupider and worse place propped up by the immune response of everyone else involved who cares about their ROI more than their shitposting is an open question.
posted by cortex at 11:01 AM on October 5, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by cortex at 11:01 AM on October 5, 2022 [3 favorites]
> Going To Maine: "Matt Levine thinks the deal will go through."
This Matt Levine post has, as usual, a lot of good analysis. However, I think his examination of the financing terms raises a question that he doesn't quite answer. It seems that the banks who Elon's enlisted for financing may be at some non-negligible risk of losses if they go through with the deal due to the changed economic environment since the beginning of the year (as well as possibly Musk's own shenanigans). How much chance is there that one or more of the banks involved decides to say "this sucks, we're outta here" and would that be sufficient to kill the deal overall? Levine raises (and dismisses) the very funny but unlikely possibility of Deutsche Bank using Elon's own bot argument to bail on the deal. The parts I don't quite understand is exactly how locked into this deal the banks are, how much actual freedom they have to walk away, how likely they would be to walk away given the current economic conditions for this deal, and how much of the bank financing would have to fall through before it kills the entire deal.
posted by mhum at 11:24 AM on October 5, 2022 [4 favorites]
This Matt Levine post has, as usual, a lot of good analysis. However, I think his examination of the financing terms raises a question that he doesn't quite answer. It seems that the banks who Elon's enlisted for financing may be at some non-negligible risk of losses if they go through with the deal due to the changed economic environment since the beginning of the year (as well as possibly Musk's own shenanigans). How much chance is there that one or more of the banks involved decides to say "this sucks, we're outta here" and would that be sufficient to kill the deal overall? Levine raises (and dismisses) the very funny but unlikely possibility of Deutsche Bank using Elon's own bot argument to bail on the deal. The parts I don't quite understand is exactly how locked into this deal the banks are, how much actual freedom they have to walk away, how likely they would be to walk away given the current economic conditions for this deal, and how much of the bank financing would have to fall through before it kills the entire deal.
posted by mhum at 11:24 AM on October 5, 2022 [4 favorites]
Matt Levine:
The [everything] app will do everything, but it will start with two functions: You can read tweets, or you can be shot on a rocket into space. Choose wisely. ...posted by Nelson at 12:32 PM on October 5, 2022 [1 favorite]
Also: Is he going to try to raise more money? Is he going to go out to potential investors again and say “changed my mind, Twitter is great now, this’ll be fun, can I pencil you in for $1 billion?” ... What does the disclosure document for that investment look like? “Yes Elon Musk has said that Twitter is a dysfunctional fraudulent conspiracy, but everything is fine now, and it’s an accelerant to creating X, the everything app.” Choose wisely.
@TheStreet: Apollo Global Management no longer looking to lead preferred financing for Elon Musk's proposed buyout of Twitter, per Reuters
posted by Going To Maine at 1:33 PM on October 5, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by Going To Maine at 1:33 PM on October 5, 2022 [1 favorite]
@MattLevine on me jumping the gun there:
people are tweeting this headline a lot but as far as i can tell they had like 5 minutes of conversations in may and haven't looked at that spreadsheet in months?posted by Going To Maine at 1:47 PM on October 5, 2022 [1 favorite]
like musk has $7+bn of committed common equity financing from his buddies, and $13bn of committed bridge debt from his banks, and there is some interest in whether those investors will try to wiggle out. also he had a few chats about a pref, which i guess did not work out.
i guess the point of this headline is that someone called apollo again and was like “hey so that termsheet we sent you in may, want to just sign that and send it back real quick?” and apollo laughed for 20 minutes.
People with functional governments need to regulate the FUCK out of social networks. Not lobby and beseech corporate masters.
The problem is that:
* The tech industry HATES being ruled. (Case in point: Ethereum was created because the lead designer got nerfed in World of Warcraft.)
* The tech industry is very good at framing not being ruled as a matter of freedom.
* As a result, tech regulation gets vilified very quickly, especially if it can be treated as touching speech in any way.
* Also, we have cultural shibboleths about speech not being able to harm ("sticks and stones") that are as powerful as they are false.
So yeah, the issue here is that regulation has been...very much an uphill fight.
posted by NoxAeternum at 2:35 PM on October 5, 2022 [3 favorites]
The problem is that:
* The tech industry HATES being ruled. (Case in point: Ethereum was created because the lead designer got nerfed in World of Warcraft.)
* The tech industry is very good at framing not being ruled as a matter of freedom.
* As a result, tech regulation gets vilified very quickly, especially if it can be treated as touching speech in any way.
* Also, we have cultural shibboleths about speech not being able to harm ("sticks and stones") that are as powerful as they are false.
So yeah, the issue here is that regulation has been...very much an uphill fight.
posted by NoxAeternum at 2:35 PM on October 5, 2022 [3 favorites]
And that's assuming we have a "functional government" in the first place...
posted by Greg_Ace at 2:52 PM on October 5, 2022
posted by Greg_Ace at 2:52 PM on October 5, 2022
Thanks for the Matt Levine posts! His level of snark is precisely what Elon deserves, plus it strikes me as a highly informed analysis [but what do I know :) ].
posted by bluesky43 at 3:08 PM on October 5, 2022
posted by bluesky43 at 3:08 PM on October 5, 2022
The other problem is do you really want Republicans being able to regulate what's on a social network if they ever get that power?
posted by Your Childhood Pet Rock at 3:09 PM on October 5, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by Your Childhood Pet Rock at 3:09 PM on October 5, 2022 [1 favorite]
The other problem is do you really want Republicans being able to regulate what's on a social network if they ever get that power?
Binding our hands will never bind theirs.
posted by NoxAeternum at 3:15 PM on October 5, 2022 [9 favorites]
Binding our hands will never bind theirs.
posted by NoxAeternum at 3:15 PM on October 5, 2022 [9 favorites]
Binding our hands will never bind theirs.
I know that but right now (at least in the US) both are bound, at least in an illusory manner. We haven't really tested many of the fascist dreams in SCOTUS yet and I won't say that SCOTUS won't allow stuff like say states to ban LGBT content from schools. I'm just saying that If we decide we're going to voluntarily and consciously submit to taking the binds off both of us we need to be damn sure we're not digging our own graves.
posted by Your Childhood Pet Rock at 3:46 PM on October 5, 2022
I know that but right now (at least in the US) both are bound, at least in an illusory manner. We haven't really tested many of the fascist dreams in SCOTUS yet and I won't say that SCOTUS won't allow stuff like say states to ban LGBT content from schools. I'm just saying that If we decide we're going to voluntarily and consciously submit to taking the binds off both of us we need to be damn sure we're not digging our own graves.
posted by Your Childhood Pet Rock at 3:46 PM on October 5, 2022
Apollo Global Management no longer looking to lead preferred financing for Elon Musk's proposed buyout of Twitter, per Reuters
Ahahahaha. This ties back to the Mudge thread. The idea is that Twitter's ad platform is build on AI IP that was stolen by Agrawal, probably from Yahoo. Apollo owns Yahoo.
So this outcome is still possible:
1. Musk forced to buy Twitter for $54.20.
2. Apollo backs out, forcing Musk to tank Tesla stock.
3. Apollo sues Twitter for basing its entire ad platform on Yahoo IP.
4. Musk goes bankrupt.
posted by ryanrs at 5:03 PM on October 5, 2022 [3 favorites]
Ahahahaha. This ties back to the Mudge thread. The idea is that Twitter's ad platform is build on AI IP that was stolen by Agrawal, probably from Yahoo. Apollo owns Yahoo.
So this outcome is still possible:
1. Musk forced to buy Twitter for $54.20.
2. Apollo backs out, forcing Musk to tank Tesla stock.
3. Apollo sues Twitter for basing its entire ad platform on Yahoo IP.
4. Musk goes bankrupt.
posted by ryanrs at 5:03 PM on October 5, 2022 [3 favorites]
And in the middle of this mess, Tesla announces plans to make their vehicles worse.
This is just...mind-boggling.
posted by NoxAeternum at 6:22 PM on October 5, 2022 [1 favorite]
This is just...mind-boggling.
posted by NoxAeternum at 6:22 PM on October 5, 2022 [1 favorite]
Tesla says that its systems will improve in performance over time and that Models 3 and Y that arrive without the ultrasonic sensors will not be capable of parking assist, autopark, summon, or smart summon. Tesla claims that these functions will be restored once its vision-only system has achieved parity with the old ultrasonic sensors.
This seems really penny foolish. Ultra sonic sensors are cheap. I wonder if this is a supply issue.
posted by Mitheral at 6:36 PM on October 5, 2022 [5 favorites]
This seems really penny foolish. Ultra sonic sensors are cheap. I wonder if this is a supply issue.
posted by Mitheral at 6:36 PM on October 5, 2022 [5 favorites]
Another option besides Signal and Mastodon is Discord, and that's really easy to plug into.
Can we not replace one for-profit corporate social media platform with another? Discord isn't some sort of charity. It's a VC-funded for-profit company, just like Twitter was, and Google was, and Apple was…
It's just in the "plucky outsider" phase of the corporate lifecycle, that's all. Twitter seemed like that once. There was a "Twitter Revolution" in Iran! Cool guy and not-at-all-a-fascist Jack Dorsey got to hang out with Obama. And he really stuck it to Trump with that ACLU donation.
And now it's a fucking dumpster fire of an online advertising company, because of course it is. A for-profit company cannot run a social media platform without it eventually becoming terrible.
Eventually the temptation to "monetize" is just too great, and then the difference in interests between the corporate parent and its users becomes obvious. Features get added that aren't beneficial to users, and the focus turns towards whoever's actually paying the bills. (Also, the presence of vast wealth seems to do… unpleasant things… to previously-reasonable-sounding founders.)
That is the key lesson that people need to take away from Twitter's slow Hindenburg maneuver. It's not that there was something fundamentally wrong with Jack Dorsey that picking some other iteration of techbro is going to fix. It's not reasonable to expect someone to not "sell out" when there are billions of dollars being thrown at them. It's that depending on a for-profit company, whether it's owned by Viacom or two dudes in a garage, that locks you into its walled garden platform, is a fundamentally bad idea.
The only popular platforms going right now that don't seem to have that issue are Signal, which is attempting a nonprofit centralized governance structure, or Mastodon and the rest of the "Fediverse" (ugh), which are doing the decentralized/Linux-style/dictatorship-by-engineering thing. Plus or minus the odd web forum (like Metafilter), which depend hugely on the quality of moderation, those are probably the best available options.
posted by Kadin2048 at 10:08 PM on October 5, 2022 [11 favorites]
Can we not replace one for-profit corporate social media platform with another? Discord isn't some sort of charity. It's a VC-funded for-profit company, just like Twitter was, and Google was, and Apple was…
It's just in the "plucky outsider" phase of the corporate lifecycle, that's all. Twitter seemed like that once. There was a "Twitter Revolution" in Iran! Cool guy and not-at-all-a-fascist Jack Dorsey got to hang out with Obama. And he really stuck it to Trump with that ACLU donation.
And now it's a fucking dumpster fire of an online advertising company, because of course it is. A for-profit company cannot run a social media platform without it eventually becoming terrible.
Eventually the temptation to "monetize" is just too great, and then the difference in interests between the corporate parent and its users becomes obvious. Features get added that aren't beneficial to users, and the focus turns towards whoever's actually paying the bills. (Also, the presence of vast wealth seems to do… unpleasant things… to previously-reasonable-sounding founders.)
That is the key lesson that people need to take away from Twitter's slow Hindenburg maneuver. It's not that there was something fundamentally wrong with Jack Dorsey that picking some other iteration of techbro is going to fix. It's not reasonable to expect someone to not "sell out" when there are billions of dollars being thrown at them. It's that depending on a for-profit company, whether it's owned by Viacom or two dudes in a garage, that locks you into its walled garden platform, is a fundamentally bad idea.
The only popular platforms going right now that don't seem to have that issue are Signal, which is attempting a nonprofit centralized governance structure, or Mastodon and the rest of the "Fediverse" (ugh), which are doing the decentralized/Linux-style/dictatorship-by-engineering thing. Plus or minus the odd web forum (like Metafilter), which depend hugely on the quality of moderation, those are probably the best available options.
posted by Kadin2048 at 10:08 PM on October 5, 2022 [11 favorites]
Ironically, Jack Dorsey has said Twitter should be an open protocol, not an ad supported private company. And he seems to think Musk taking it private was a step towards that idea. I think every aspect of that is nonsense, but it is a thing Jack has said.
posted by Nelson at 10:42 PM on October 5, 2022 [4 favorites]
posted by Nelson at 10:42 PM on October 5, 2022 [4 favorites]
A for-profit company cannot run a social media platform without it eventually becoming terrible.
I don't buy this argument.
I don't buy it because from where I sit, the driving forces behind making social media "terrible" are less economic and more cultural. In fact, we've seen how these policies can run counter to economic incentives (for example, Twitter losing out on several acquisition deals because of toxicity on the platform.) And it's cracking that culture that is the path forward, because a lot of these founders didn't get changed by wealth - wealth just served to enable them.
posted by NoxAeternum at 8:31 AM on October 6, 2022 [2 favorites]
I don't buy this argument.
I don't buy it because from where I sit, the driving forces behind making social media "terrible" are less economic and more cultural. In fact, we've seen how these policies can run counter to economic incentives (for example, Twitter losing out on several acquisition deals because of toxicity on the platform.) And it's cracking that culture that is the path forward, because a lot of these founders didn't get changed by wealth - wealth just served to enable them.
posted by NoxAeternum at 8:31 AM on October 6, 2022 [2 favorites]
My overwhelming take from all this is that rich people are all constantly lying to you, me, each other and themselves and should absolutely never be trusted even with their own money which it turns out they actually have incredibly little of because of that too is a great big lie*.
*they do however still have more than you and me.
posted by srboisvert at 11:23 AM on October 6, 2022 [2 favorites]
*they do however still have more than you and me.
posted by srboisvert at 11:23 AM on October 6, 2022 [2 favorites]
Every thoughtful article I've read has noted that Elon's trying to sneak a financing contingency in. I can't imagine how he can secure enough the financing to do this deal, although a number of those articles don't share that concern. Regardless, Twitter isn't falling for it. I'm not sure where this leaves us but I still think Elon isn't going to buy Twitter. If he does, his interest payments will be an enormous bleed and I don't see a revenue stream that could even begin to cover it. Make this make sense.
posted by sjswitzer at 11:43 AM on October 6, 2022
posted by sjswitzer at 11:43 AM on October 6, 2022
That is the key lesson that people need to take away from Twitter's slow Hindenburg maneuver. It's not that there was something fundamentally wrong with Jack Dorsey that picking some other iteration of techbro is going to fix. It's not reasonable to expect someone to not "sell out" when there are billions of dollars being thrown at them. It's that depending on a for-profit company, whether it's owned by Viacom or two dudes in a garage, that locks you into its walled garden platform, is a fundamentally bad idea.To get a shade more cynical than even that:
The sole business model of sites like these is to grow aggressively, establish a monopolistic "standard," and then abuse it.
The firm belief, monolithically held by every major social network operator, is that there is only utility in being the exclusive provider of a given social medium. The only goal is to invent a new popular medium, then dominate it—which is why we get successive rounds of: new fad seems to emerge, three big social networks immediately try to plagiarize it, all but one of those sites die out. Facebook has successfully pulled this off multiple times in a row, either crushing or buying out the hot new thing, but Google had a Twitter clone called Jaiku and tried to pull similar moves against MySpace (Orkut), Flickr (Picasa), and Facebook (Google+); it recently tried to tussle with Amazon over livestreaming, though it seems to have given up on that fight as of late.
More perniciously, almost all of these sites operate under the belief that any attempt to monetize early runs counter to the aggressive, virulent growth they will require to succeed. Which is why they all launch with a billion dollars in VC funding—they need to operate at a loss for a decade just to establish their place in the market. Which means, among other things, that the ones that do succeed at this typically build up in ways that are obscenely unsustainable unless they pivot to making lots of money fast. (And that's on top of the sizable pressure that they face from VCs who want their money back and more.)
A rare few find a way to get users to pay them money (and fewer-to-none still manage this with anything resembling a sense of ethics). Plenty rush to meet demands by compromising and ruining their own product, squeezing money out before the users flee to some other service. Others make this money by ruthlessly selling their users out. Not that these categories are mutually exclusive, mind you.
The only way they can get away with this is if they can convince you that they are practically a public service, as inevitable (and as neutral) as email or RSS. They want you to think of them as a medium, and an inescapable one at that. MySpace was huge, MySpace was almost unavoidable, but MySpace was always a destination more than it was a service. Social networks, on the other hand, aim to be so omnipresent that it's weird if you don't use them. Which is why there are profitable services, nowadays, that just let you link to all your other social media accounts—because it's totally typical for someone to have ten or more, which is obscene. But you'd better to believe that all those splash-page sites are squabbling to become the makeshift "medium" that everyone uses to the exclusion of all the rest, so they can abuse you same way.
(You need a one-stop service for this, of course, because sites like Instagram and Twitter only let you post a single link on your profile. They don't want you leaving. Hell, Facebook is so good at this that it's more-or-less kept an entire generation from understanding what the World Wide Web is.)
Twitter didn't nobly try to be a good thing and get foiled by its own business motive. Twitter was just one of the earliest companies that set its aims on getting so big that it could abuse its userbase en masse, and without any meaningful pushback, because its users gave up on the idea that Twitter was anything but a depressing inevitability. It's far from the only one, and more wannabes pop up every year.
Discord offers some nice features, but it's absolutely pernicious how many people treat it like a new medium and not a product. Thus far, it's done a good job of staying on its users' good sides. But if it ever decides its vision of itself conflicts with those users' needs, it won't hesitate to immiserate loads of people and devastate thousands of communities in the name of its bottom line. And its owners are aware of that, and put a lot of effort into keeping its users from figuring that out. The hope is that, by the time it starts fucking with people, everyone will be too entrenched to bail. It's the same story as Netflix or Amazon. (Heck, you can probably trace this strategy back to Microsoft. An awful lot of people looked at The Richest Man In The World, saw how he'd made his fortune, and went "Hey, I'll have some of what he's having.")
posted by Tom Hanks Cannot Be Trusted at 12:26 PM on October 6, 2022 [5 favorites]
And we get the real reason Musk is doing this - he is demanding that the lawsuit forcing his hands be stopped.
As stupid arguments go, this one's up there.
posted by NoxAeternum at 1:01 PM on October 6, 2022 [3 favorites]
As stupid arguments go, this one's up there.
posted by NoxAeternum at 1:01 PM on October 6, 2022 [3 favorites]
I don't buy this argument.
Is there any for-profit social media company that hasn't become shitty over time?
I mean, I don't really have a comprehensive answer as to why precisely the trend towards shittiness happens, but rather it's like Milliken with his oil drops in 1904: the evidence suggests there's something going on.
Facebook: started out as a fairly cool, innocuous, for-college-students-by-college-students-(sorta) platform for finding parties and looking at headshots of attractive people on your campus. Fast-forward a decade or so, and it's a cesspool of rightwing propaganda amplification and probably at least partially responsible for a genocide in Asia. Thanks, Zuck!
Instagram: started out as a cool place to share photos that wasn't Facebook, and was supposed to not become Facebook. Got popular, got bought by Facebook for $1B when it still had like a dozen employees. Now it's part of Facebook.
Twitter: I think it's been discussed. I'll only add that on the scale of techbros, Dorsey isn't really even one of the "bad ones", or at least he wasn't when he got started. If the problem is that Dorsey wasn't ideologically pure enough, I've got some bad news: basically nobody coming out of SV startup culture is going to do better. If your next social media network depends on someone being better than Jack, you might as well go back to writing postcards. (In which case I have some bad news about the Postmaster General.)
Tumblr: Built by "nonconformist", high-school dropout, and Vespa-riding NYC cool guy David Karp, who eventually took a billion of Yahoo's dollars, which presumably he used to dry some of his tears as they ran the whole thing onto the rocks… before selling it for the price of a nice bluefin tuna to Automattic. While it admittedly hasn't gotten as aggressively toxic as Twitter/Facebook, they did almost immediately destroy the most unique part of the site, and arguably the only reason why it's not worse is because they haven't figured out how to get it growing again.
Reddit: is Reddit. It's also not profitable, and still technically in the "growth" stage; the investor bait-and-switch hasn't yet happened. Watch this space.
TikTok: functionally the social media wing of the PRC, the fun folks who brought you the Great Firewall. And that other ongoing genocide, which you should probably not plan to discuss on TikTok.
If there's a way to make boatloads of money while running a social media empire that doesn't suck, nobody's figured out how to do it.
posted by Kadin2048 at 1:10 PM on October 6, 2022 [6 favorites]
Is there any for-profit social media company that hasn't become shitty over time?
I mean, I don't really have a comprehensive answer as to why precisely the trend towards shittiness happens, but rather it's like Milliken with his oil drops in 1904: the evidence suggests there's something going on.
Facebook: started out as a fairly cool, innocuous, for-college-students-by-college-students-(sorta) platform for finding parties and looking at headshots of attractive people on your campus. Fast-forward a decade or so, and it's a cesspool of rightwing propaganda amplification and probably at least partially responsible for a genocide in Asia. Thanks, Zuck!
Instagram: started out as a cool place to share photos that wasn't Facebook, and was supposed to not become Facebook. Got popular, got bought by Facebook for $1B when it still had like a dozen employees. Now it's part of Facebook.
Twitter: I think it's been discussed. I'll only add that on the scale of techbros, Dorsey isn't really even one of the "bad ones", or at least he wasn't when he got started. If the problem is that Dorsey wasn't ideologically pure enough, I've got some bad news: basically nobody coming out of SV startup culture is going to do better. If your next social media network depends on someone being better than Jack, you might as well go back to writing postcards. (In which case I have some bad news about the Postmaster General.)
Tumblr: Built by "nonconformist", high-school dropout, and Vespa-riding NYC cool guy David Karp, who eventually took a billion of Yahoo's dollars, which presumably he used to dry some of his tears as they ran the whole thing onto the rocks… before selling it for the price of a nice bluefin tuna to Automattic. While it admittedly hasn't gotten as aggressively toxic as Twitter/Facebook, they did almost immediately destroy the most unique part of the site, and arguably the only reason why it's not worse is because they haven't figured out how to get it growing again.
Reddit: is Reddit. It's also not profitable, and still technically in the "growth" stage; the investor bait-and-switch hasn't yet happened. Watch this space.
TikTok: functionally the social media wing of the PRC, the fun folks who brought you the Great Firewall. And that other ongoing genocide, which you should probably not plan to discuss on TikTok.
If there's a way to make boatloads of money while running a social media empire that doesn't suck, nobody's figured out how to do it.
posted by Kadin2048 at 1:10 PM on October 6, 2022 [6 favorites]
If there's a way to make boatloads of money while running a social media empire that doesn't suck, nobody's figured out how to do it.
You're missing my point, which is that the problem isn't money, but culture. For example, Facebook started as a misogynistic Hot or Not clone, and it's been reported that Zuckerberg abused Facebook password data to gain access to Harvard Crimson accounts back in those early days. The rot was already there, long before the money was.
posted by NoxAeternum at 1:17 PM on October 6, 2022 [1 favorite]
You're missing my point, which is that the problem isn't money, but culture. For example, Facebook started as a misogynistic Hot or Not clone, and it's been reported that Zuckerberg abused Facebook password data to gain access to Harvard Crimson accounts back in those early days. The rot was already there, long before the money was.
posted by NoxAeternum at 1:17 PM on October 6, 2022 [1 favorite]
NEW YORK (AP) — Musk lawyers say Twitter won't accept renewed $44 billion bid for the company, ask Delaware court to halt upcoming trial.
what. is. happening.
posted by gwint at 1:45 PM on October 6, 2022 [1 favorite]
what. is. happening.
posted by gwint at 1:45 PM on October 6, 2022 [1 favorite]
what. is. happening.
This has been Musk's goal from the start - he wants this trial dead, especially after it's come out that nobody's buying his bot bullshit. This is for three reasons:
One, Twitter's discovery has been undercutting his personal brand, as people are realizing he's not playing 4D chess, but is really that uninformed. The release of his texts has been illustrative in that regard, which leads to...
Two, his connections to other elites are being frayed by exposure. Having Musk's texts out in the public hasn't just affected his brand, but the brands of all the other billionaires involved, which in turn is weakening the connections he uses to get funding.
Three, it's worth remembering that Tesla, like many other companies, was incorporated in Delaware. As such, if the court rules that he has to pay up, it also has the ability to make him do so by seizing his stake in Tesla.
posted by NoxAeternum at 1:55 PM on October 6, 2022 [10 favorites]
This has been Musk's goal from the start - he wants this trial dead, especially after it's come out that nobody's buying his bot bullshit. This is for three reasons:
One, Twitter's discovery has been undercutting his personal brand, as people are realizing he's not playing 4D chess, but is really that uninformed. The release of his texts has been illustrative in that regard, which leads to...
Two, his connections to other elites are being frayed by exposure. Having Musk's texts out in the public hasn't just affected his brand, but the brands of all the other billionaires involved, which in turn is weakening the connections he uses to get funding.
Three, it's worth remembering that Tesla, like many other companies, was incorporated in Delaware. As such, if the court rules that he has to pay up, it also has the ability to make him do so by seizing his stake in Tesla.
posted by NoxAeternum at 1:55 PM on October 6, 2022 [10 favorites]
Ironically, Jack Dorsey has said Twitter should be an open protocol
Especially ironic because Twitter started blocking new third-party clients in March 2011, the same month that Dorsey returned to the company as its executive chair (after leaving the CEO post in 2008). That effectively killed any path leading toward a “Twitter protocol” with an open ecosystem.
posted by mbrubeck at 2:35 PM on October 6, 2022 [3 favorites]
Especially ironic because Twitter started blocking new third-party clients in March 2011, the same month that Dorsey returned to the company as its executive chair (after leaving the CEO post in 2008). That effectively killed any path leading toward a “Twitter protocol” with an open ecosystem.
posted by mbrubeck at 2:35 PM on October 6, 2022 [3 favorites]
IIRC, they recently did a U-turn and released a new API, available to third-party clients. New versions of Tweetbot and the like use this.
But yes, Twitter being usable with third-party clients is one of the things I'd miss about it. The difference between social media with an API and social media with a centrally managed app is the difference between a service and a casino. One's designed to help you, the other one to manipulate you for maximum profit.
posted by acb at 2:54 PM on October 6, 2022
But yes, Twitter being usable with third-party clients is one of the things I'd miss about it. The difference between social media with an API and social media with a centrally managed app is the difference between a service and a casino. One's designed to help you, the other one to manipulate you for maximum profit.
posted by acb at 2:54 PM on October 6, 2022
Looks like Musk et al got themselves a stay until Oct 28, so either Musk closes the deal or we get to witness another round of Lucy/Charlie/football shenanigans and, in a just universe, concomitant wrath from the court when it turns out to be horseshit.
posted by cortex at 2:58 PM on October 6, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by cortex at 2:58 PM on October 6, 2022 [2 favorites]
You're missing my point, which is that the problem isn't money, but culture.
The companies with good cultures will never become megacorps in the same way that altruists with strong ethical principles will never become billionaires. The market in its ineffable wisdom considers ethics a liability and sorts accordingly.
posted by Pyry at 3:30 PM on October 6, 2022 [5 favorites]
The companies with good cultures will never become megacorps in the same way that altruists with strong ethical principles will never become billionaires. The market in its ineffable wisdom considers ethics a liability and sorts accordingly.
posted by Pyry at 3:30 PM on October 6, 2022 [5 favorites]
Ah I see.
Musk lawyers are saying that Twitter won't accept the offer, only because Twitter lawyers are probably saying , "sure, we'll halt the trial when the cheques clear"
So they're just ignoring the letter we previously discussed, because they're well aware that it's basically meaningless.
Their response claims:
"Defendants’ proposal is an invitation to further mischief and delay."
Oh, and here's an interesting point:
They ask for an open-ended out, at the expense of Twitter’s stockholders (who are owed $44 billion plus interest).
The vig on 44 Billion has to be substantial doesn't it?
My naive interpretation of this is that Twitter will be demanding interest at the federal rate? which is 4%.
So the price ought to be going up by 150million a month after the close date?
posted by Just this guy, y'know at 3:43 PM on October 6, 2022 [1 favorite]
Musk lawyers are saying that Twitter won't accept the offer, only because Twitter lawyers are probably saying , "sure, we'll halt the trial when the cheques clear"
So they're just ignoring the letter we previously discussed, because they're well aware that it's basically meaningless.
Their response claims:
"Defendants’ proposal is an invitation to further mischief and delay."
Oh, and here's an interesting point:
They ask for an open-ended out, at the expense of Twitter’s stockholders (who are owed $44 billion plus interest).
The vig on 44 Billion has to be substantial doesn't it?
My naive interpretation of this is that Twitter will be demanding interest at the federal rate? which is 4%.
So the price ought to be going up by 150million a month after the close date?
posted by Just this guy, y'know at 3:43 PM on October 6, 2022 [1 favorite]
This thread has some commentary from the Twitter user @chancery_daily (which seems to be one of those Twitter accounts with a very specific focus -- in this case, the Delaware Court of Chancery):
here's the deal. justice requires that only that which happens before the court or is otherwise on the record of the case, is considered by the trier of fact and law.posted by mhum at 3:47 PM on October 6, 2022 [4 favorites]
this is a first principle, so to speak.
you can't just "know things" or "feel vibes"
[...]
the law has to give everyone as much rope as they request with which to do whatever legal thing, and then if they end up getting tangled in that rope and metaphorically autoasphyxiating, well, look, they're keepers of justice, not rope. no system is perfect.
[...]
So, this is Elon's one chance, on the court's stage, to show whether he is a good faith actor in trying to close this deal, or whether (as many on here have long ago entered order and final judgment) he is full of ish. We did that off the record. She has to do it ON.
[...]
also, let's not miss the details. she stayed the case 22 days, and you can bet your bottom dollar that prejudgment interest is ALL THE WAY ON now. it's on the record, and the request is officially heard.
The judge just handed Musk a skein of rope and is waiting to see what he'll do with it.
posted by NoxAeternum at 4:35 PM on October 6, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by NoxAeternum at 4:35 PM on October 6, 2022 [1 favorite]
squirm spaceboy, ha ha
posted by ryanrs at 11:22 PM on October 6, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by ryanrs at 11:22 PM on October 6, 2022 [1 favorite]
In a moment of "what did you say?", the head of the ADL calls Musk "the Henry Ford of our time."
posted by NoxAeternum at 12:46 PM on October 7, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by NoxAeternum at 12:46 PM on October 7, 2022 [2 favorites]
By which i can only assume he means raging antisemite, eugenics enthusist and nazi sympathizer.
posted by Mitheral at 3:14 PM on October 7, 2022 [6 favorites]
posted by Mitheral at 3:14 PM on October 7, 2022 [6 favorites]
Apparently not! indeed as the head of ADL made a whole-ass thread apology.
But, also, the analogy is apt : shitty way-too-rich dude underpays workers to make nice-looking (but not great quality) cars, takes all the credit for the aesthetic, calls them incredible and wants praise about it, despite having zero expertise that would lead to the final output.
Thankfully actual auto manufacturers with proper quality control are making electric vehicles. Hell, even Cadillac's first attempt beats the Model Yon most fronts.
posted by revmitcz at 4:13 AM on October 8, 2022 [2 favorites]
But, also, the analogy is apt : shitty way-too-rich dude underpays workers to make nice-looking (but not great quality) cars, takes all the credit for the aesthetic, calls them incredible and wants praise about it, despite having zero expertise that would lead to the final output.
Thankfully actual auto manufacturers with proper quality control are making electric vehicles. Hell, even Cadillac's first attempt beats the Model Yon most fronts.
posted by revmitcz at 4:13 AM on October 8, 2022 [2 favorites]
I wanna see Elon smash another so-called "bulletproof" window. That was truly hilarious. That man just can't stop being an idiot in public, can he? I've been on a one-person campaign to rebrand Tesla cars as Muskmobiles.
Snark aside I'm angry that the "best" outcome for Twitter Inc is to sell itself to this arrogant and unpleasant man. Literally the only reason the deal was ever agreed to is because he put such a stupidly high price on it, so high it would have been difficult to refuse. No one involved with Twitter thinks he's gonna be a great boss. I assume most folks will head for the exits, also that Elon will gut various important groups like Trust & Safety. And impose some stupid thing like "Tweets can be 420 characters now" or.. good lord, I fear what's to come.
Mastodon really does work pretty well. It's the closest replacement IMHO. Of course the young people have long since fled for more interesting platforms likePeriscope Vine TikkityTok.
posted by Nelson at 8:52 AM on October 8, 2022 [4 favorites]
Snark aside I'm angry that the "best" outcome for Twitter Inc is to sell itself to this arrogant and unpleasant man. Literally the only reason the deal was ever agreed to is because he put such a stupidly high price on it, so high it would have been difficult to refuse. No one involved with Twitter thinks he's gonna be a great boss. I assume most folks will head for the exits, also that Elon will gut various important groups like Trust & Safety. And impose some stupid thing like "Tweets can be 420 characters now" or.. good lord, I fear what's to come.
Mastodon really does work pretty well. It's the closest replacement IMHO. Of course the young people have long since fled for more interesting platforms like
posted by Nelson at 8:52 AM on October 8, 2022 [4 favorites]
That man just can't stop being an idiot in public, can he?
Musk offers proposal on China-Taiwan tensions, after Russia-Ukraine plan
Musk offers proposal on China-Taiwan tensions, after Russia-Ukraine plan
Billionaire Elon Musk, days after floating a possible deal to end the war between Russia and Ukraine that drew condemnation in Ukraine, suggested that tensions between China and Taiwan could be resolved by handing over some control of Taiwan to Beijing.posted by ryanrs at 11:34 AM on October 8, 2022 [1 favorite]
I'm angry that the "best" outcome for Twitter Inc is to sell itself to this arrogant and unpleasant man. Literally the only reason the deal was ever agreed to is because he put such a stupidly high price on it, so high it would have been difficult to refuse. No one involved with Twitter thinks he's gonna be a great boss. I assume most folks will head for the exits,
I hate Twitter and I feel the same. It's really ridiculously unfortunate that the best outcome is to let this whackadoo little shit spend a bunch of money he somehow doesn't have (despite being a billionaire?) to buy a company he no longer wants, who doesn't really want him either except for the money, and anyone with any sense who works there is going to run for it immediately (NYT link) because he will immediately turn it into a giant toilet.
posted by jenfullmoon at 3:13 PM on October 8, 2022 [2 favorites]
I hate Twitter and I feel the same. It's really ridiculously unfortunate that the best outcome is to let this whackadoo little shit spend a bunch of money he somehow doesn't have (despite being a billionaire?) to buy a company he no longer wants, who doesn't really want him either except for the money, and anyone with any sense who works there is going to run for it immediately (NYT link) because he will immediately turn it into a giant toilet.
posted by jenfullmoon at 3:13 PM on October 8, 2022 [2 favorites]
spend a bunch of money he somehow doesn't have (despite being a billionaire?)
Well, he kinda has it, in the sense that his Tesla stake is worth quite a bit. But he doesn't want to sell those shares, so he's basically taking out some sort of loan from a bunch of banks using the shares as collateral. At least that's how I understood the mechanics of the deal.
I'm a bit surprised that the banks are still cool with their original agreement, and haven't demanded extra collateral or something (and who knows, maybe they have and he agreed and we just haven't heard about it?).
But the point is, if the Twitter deal really went south, Elon's stake in Tesla could be significantly reduced. IMO, that would be the best outcome for all concerned: Elon grabs ahold of Twitter and tries to use it as a life preserver, only realizing too late it's actually a millstone. He and Twitter go down together, and Tesla gets freed from his cult of personality in favor of someone who actually knows how to run a car company without a lot of performative antics.
Because although Teslas are personally a bit rich for my blood, they sure did manage to move forward acceptance of electric cars in general. I'm not sure we'd see the level of competition we have in the electric vehicle market right now (with Ford, GM, etc. all scrambling to bring all-electric models, plus new companies like Lucid and Youngstown nipping at their heels) if Tesla hadn't lit something of a fire under the incumbents. They'd still probably be dicking around with "light hybrids" and other bullshit.
posted by Kadin2048 at 11:54 AM on October 9, 2022 [4 favorites]
Well, he kinda has it, in the sense that his Tesla stake is worth quite a bit. But he doesn't want to sell those shares, so he's basically taking out some sort of loan from a bunch of banks using the shares as collateral. At least that's how I understood the mechanics of the deal.
I'm a bit surprised that the banks are still cool with their original agreement, and haven't demanded extra collateral or something (and who knows, maybe they have and he agreed and we just haven't heard about it?).
But the point is, if the Twitter deal really went south, Elon's stake in Tesla could be significantly reduced. IMO, that would be the best outcome for all concerned: Elon grabs ahold of Twitter and tries to use it as a life preserver, only realizing too late it's actually a millstone. He and Twitter go down together, and Tesla gets freed from his cult of personality in favor of someone who actually knows how to run a car company without a lot of performative antics.
Because although Teslas are personally a bit rich for my blood, they sure did manage to move forward acceptance of electric cars in general. I'm not sure we'd see the level of competition we have in the electric vehicle market right now (with Ford, GM, etc. all scrambling to bring all-electric models, plus new companies like Lucid and Youngstown nipping at their heels) if Tesla hadn't lit something of a fire under the incumbents. They'd still probably be dicking around with "light hybrids" and other bullshit.
posted by Kadin2048 at 11:54 AM on October 9, 2022 [4 favorites]
There was a time before I was really paying attention to who Musk was when I thought a Model 3 might be my next car. Now if it was a choice between no car and a Tesla, I'd learn to live without a car.
posted by octothorpe at 2:32 PM on October 9, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by octothorpe at 2:32 PM on October 9, 2022 [3 favorites]
What's amazing is this wasn't the first time he's had his ass kicked for tweeting a weed joke. The SEC sued him back in 2018 when he tweeted he was considering taking Tesla private at $420/share. The shareholder litigation for that is still ongoing.
posted by ryanrs at 2:50 PM on October 9, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by ryanrs at 2:50 PM on October 9, 2022 [1 favorite]
What's amazing is this wasn't the first time he's had his ass kicked for tweeting a weed joke.
It's also not the only joke that has gotten him in trouble - Tesla is currently facing a sexual harassment lawsuit, and one of the points the plaintiffs make is that the atmosphere was fueled by his asinine "S3XY" marketing.
posted by NoxAeternum at 11:26 AM on October 10, 2022 [3 favorites]
It's also not the only joke that has gotten him in trouble - Tesla is currently facing a sexual harassment lawsuit, and one of the points the plaintiffs make is that the atmosphere was fueled by his asinine "S3XY" marketing.
posted by NoxAeternum at 11:26 AM on October 10, 2022 [3 favorites]
And because we live in the dumbest timeline, apparently Musk had conferred with Putin before his ill-advised tweets on Ukraine.
posted by NoxAeternum at 2:49 PM on October 11, 2022
posted by NoxAeternum at 2:49 PM on October 11, 2022
Elon Musk blocks Ukraine from using Starlink in Crimea over concern that Putin could use nuclear weapons: report
(If I'm being 100% honest, my prediction a week ago was "Musk Blocks Starlink Because People Were Mean to Him on Twitter", but this is pretty close.)
posted by ryanrs at 12:20 AM on October 12, 2022 [3 favorites]
(If I'm being 100% honest, my prediction a week ago was "Musk Blocks Starlink Because People Were Mean to Him on Twitter", but this is pretty close.)
posted by ryanrs at 12:20 AM on October 12, 2022 [3 favorites]
There is definitely something weird and very troubling going on between Putin and Musk.
Back in May, Russian 'space chief' Dmitry Rogozin threatened Musk over delivering Starlink equipment to Ukraine, calling it military communications gear.
Musk played it off and made jokes about 'if I die under mysterious circumstances, it’s been nice knowing ya', but by the middle of July Rogozin was fired and most sources attributed the firing to the attack on Musk and astronaut Scott Kelly.
Rogozin is a staunch Putin ally who has held a number of important defense related posts, and was a key figure in the Russian nationalist movement which was central to building popular support for the annexation of Crimea. Rogozin also wrote a foreword to a book about the "fatal bargain" of selling Alaska to the US in which he called for the return of Alaska and the Aleutians to Russia, and compared that sale to the betrayal of Russia by Gorbachev and Yeltsin which lead to the loss of Eastern Europe. A loss the annexation of Crimea was seen as beginning to remedy and which the invasion of Ukraine further reverses.
Musk parroting Putin talking points looks like a quid pro quo, and I see the remarks on China in particular as important to Putin to shore up Chinese support for the Ukraine invasion, but for Musk to deliver them makes him look like a Putin asset.
And then a couple of days ago out of nowhere, Tulsi Gabbard switches parties and becomes a Republican, calling Democratic leadership an "elitist Cabal of warmongers" which rings strangely coming out of a US pol, but would have been perfectly normal for a Putin ally criticizing the US for backing Ukraine, which calls to mind all the stories about her biggest backer being a secret Putin supporter.
And yesterday Beau of the Fifth Column posted a video about a member of the Russian Duma giving a speech advising Republicans that if there were any states that were were tired of being part of the US and wanted to join Russia, the Duma would be happy to consider it. Beau thought it was mockery, but I thought it was clearly aimed at Alaska, and I’m not so sure. It certainly offers a different perspective on CPAC holding its first conference in Hungary last May:
Back in May, Russian 'space chief' Dmitry Rogozin threatened Musk over delivering Starlink equipment to Ukraine, calling it military communications gear.
Musk played it off and made jokes about 'if I die under mysterious circumstances, it’s been nice knowing ya', but by the middle of July Rogozin was fired and most sources attributed the firing to the attack on Musk and astronaut Scott Kelly.
Rogozin is a staunch Putin ally who has held a number of important defense related posts, and was a key figure in the Russian nationalist movement which was central to building popular support for the annexation of Crimea. Rogozin also wrote a foreword to a book about the "fatal bargain" of selling Alaska to the US in which he called for the return of Alaska and the Aleutians to Russia, and compared that sale to the betrayal of Russia by Gorbachev and Yeltsin which lead to the loss of Eastern Europe. A loss the annexation of Crimea was seen as beginning to remedy and which the invasion of Ukraine further reverses.
Musk parroting Putin talking points looks like a quid pro quo, and I see the remarks on China in particular as important to Putin to shore up Chinese support for the Ukraine invasion, but for Musk to deliver them makes him look like a Putin asset.
And then a couple of days ago out of nowhere, Tulsi Gabbard switches parties and becomes a Republican, calling Democratic leadership an "elitist Cabal of warmongers" which rings strangely coming out of a US pol, but would have been perfectly normal for a Putin ally criticizing the US for backing Ukraine, which calls to mind all the stories about her biggest backer being a secret Putin supporter.
And yesterday Beau of the Fifth Column posted a video about a member of the Russian Duma giving a speech advising Republicans that if there were any states that were were tired of being part of the US and wanted to join Russia, the Duma would be happy to consider it. Beau thought it was mockery, but I thought it was clearly aimed at Alaska, and I’m not so sure. It certainly offers a different perspective on CPAC holding its first conference in Hungary last May:
And Schlapp and his organization, like Tucker Carlson and other right-wing American commentators, have developed a cozy relationship with Orbán and his government in Hungary. In May, CPAC held its first conference in Hungary, where former President Donald Trump addressed the audience by video. On Tuesday, Orbán was welcomed by Trump to his golf club in Bedminster, N.J., where he called the Hungarian leader a “friend.”posted by jamjam at 11:27 PM on October 12, 2022 [1 favorite]
I forgot to include the link for for the 4th paragraph, which begins "Rogozin…" : Is Alaska Next on Russia's List?
posted by jamjam at 1:52 AM on October 13, 2022
posted by jamjam at 1:52 AM on October 13, 2022
I'm not sure you need to dig too hard for a possible reason for a Musk quid pro quo: Starlink.
Musk initially used Ukraine as an as-seen-on-TV advertising opportunity for Starlink, making a big deal of how they were being used in areas where communications were otherwise being denied by Russia.
This presumably annoyed Russia.
In addition to whatever other vulnerabilities someone like Musk has—and I suspect they are limited only by the fact that Musk has little shame; releasing a "pee tape" featuring Musk would probably only make watersports suddenly popular among techbros—the Russian state is one of a small number of entities that could actually interfere with Starlink if they chose to. It would certainly be within their capabilities to jam or degrade it, if they wanted to. (While Starlink has a lot of satellites, the ground stations are limited and provide opportunities for interference, if someone with their own fleet of maneuverable satellites chose to do it.)
And Musk seems like the kind of guy who would absolutely roll over on Ukraine if one of his pet projects (i.e. his ego) was threatened.
posted by Kadin2048 at 9:17 AM on October 13, 2022 [3 favorites]
Musk initially used Ukraine as an as-seen-on-TV advertising opportunity for Starlink, making a big deal of how they were being used in areas where communications were otherwise being denied by Russia.
This presumably annoyed Russia.
In addition to whatever other vulnerabilities someone like Musk has—and I suspect they are limited only by the fact that Musk has little shame; releasing a "pee tape" featuring Musk would probably only make watersports suddenly popular among techbros—the Russian state is one of a small number of entities that could actually interfere with Starlink if they chose to. It would certainly be within their capabilities to jam or degrade it, if they wanted to. (While Starlink has a lot of satellites, the ground stations are limited and provide opportunities for interference, if someone with their own fleet of maneuverable satellites chose to do it.)
And Musk seems like the kind of guy who would absolutely roll over on Ukraine if one of his pet projects (i.e. his ego) was threatened.
posted by Kadin2048 at 9:17 AM on October 13, 2022 [3 favorites]
It's really ridiculously unfortunate that the best outcome is to let this whackadoo little shit spend a bunch of money he somehow doesn't have (despite being a billionaire?) to buy a company he no longer wants, who doesn't really want him either except for the money, and anyone with any sense who works there is going to run for it immediately (NYT link) because he will immediately turn it into a giant toilet.
The best outcome would surely still be for Musk and Twitter to amicably agree that he should pay them a lot of money and then not buy the company. Fifteen days!
posted by Going To Maine at 11:37 AM on October 13, 2022 [1 favorite]
The best outcome would surely still be for Musk and Twitter to amicably agree that he should pay them a lot of money and then not buy the company. Fifteen days!
posted by Going To Maine at 11:37 AM on October 13, 2022 [1 favorite]
I think you are badly misreading this situation, Kadin2048.
By firing Rogozin, Putin removed all doubt from Musk's mind that the threat was in fact real. Otherwise why bother?
One problem with having a society where billionaires are so influential is that while they are largely above our own laws, they are very vulnerable to someone like Putin — as witness Donald Trump, who has savaged almost everyone he has ever had any dealings with, friend or foe.
Except Putin, I have never seen a word attributed to Donald Trump that could be construed as even remotely critical of Putin.
posted by jamjam at 11:45 AM on October 13, 2022 [2 favorites]
By firing Rogozin, Putin removed all doubt from Musk's mind that the threat was in fact real. Otherwise why bother?
One problem with having a society where billionaires are so influential is that while they are largely above our own laws, they are very vulnerable to someone like Putin — as witness Donald Trump, who has savaged almost everyone he has ever had any dealings with, friend or foe.
Except Putin, I have never seen a word attributed to Donald Trump that could be construed as even remotely critical of Putin.
posted by jamjam at 11:45 AM on October 13, 2022 [2 favorites]
One problem with having a society where billionaires are so influential is that while they are largely above our own laws, they are very vulnerable to someone like Putin
Another lens on this: Putin is rumored to be the actual richest man in the world. Musk probably thinks of him as a peer. They certainly have more common interest with each other than with any of us.
posted by Lentrohamsanin at 1:41 PM on October 13, 2022 [1 favorite]
Another lens on this: Putin is rumored to be the actual richest man in the world. Musk probably thinks of him as a peer. They certainly have more common interest with each other than with any of us.
posted by Lentrohamsanin at 1:41 PM on October 13, 2022 [1 favorite]
Good point, Lentrohamsanin.
A peer and first among equals — Sauron to Musk's Saruman, I’m tempted to say.
posted by jamjam at 2:56 PM on October 13, 2022 [1 favorite]
A peer and first among equals — Sauron to Musk's Saruman, I’m tempted to say.
posted by jamjam at 2:56 PM on October 13, 2022 [1 favorite]
Did apartheid help form Musk's opposition to public transit?
posted by jeffburdges at 5:17 PM on October 13, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by jeffburdges at 5:17 PM on October 13, 2022 [1 favorite]
From Reuters today, "Elon Musk under federal investigation tied to Twitter deal, filing shows":
posted by mhum at 5:37 PM on October 13, 2022
Elon Musk is under a federal investigation related to his $44 billion takeover deal for Twitter Inc (TWTR.N), the social media company said in a court filing made public on Thursday.There's really not a lot of new information in here, really it's only that Twitter made a request for records of a federal investigation. Either the federal investigation is about one of Elon's known issues (e.g.: the late disclosure of his 9% stake) in which case we kinda already knew he was being looked at by the SEC, or it's about a heretofore unknown issue in which case we have no idea what that might be about since it's not specified in this article.
Twitter said it requested for months that Musk's attorneys produce their communications with federal authorities but they had not done so, and asked a Delaware judge to order the attorneys to provide the documents.
[...]
Twitter's court request was filed on Oct. 6, the same day the Delaware judge halted the litigation to allow Twitter and Musk to close the takeover deal. read more
The SEC has questioned Musk's comments about the Twitter acquisition. In April, the SEC asked Musk whether the disclosure of his 9% Twitter stake was late and why it indicated that he intended to be a passive shareholder. Musk later refiled the disclosure to indicate he was an active investor.
posted by mhum at 5:37 PM on October 13, 2022
And the grift continues as Musk claims he can't keep paying for Starlink in Ukraine:
In September, SpaceX wrote a letter to the Pentagon, warning that it might have to stop funding Starlink in Ukraine because the company could no longer afford it, according to documents obtained by CNN. In the letter, SpaceX asked the Pentagon to bear the cost of Starlink used by the Ukrainian government and military, per CNN.posted by NoxAeternum at 8:53 AM on October 14, 2022
Musk's aerospace manufacturer wrote in the letter that it expected the cost of keeping Starlink running in Ukraine to add up to more than $120 million for the rest of 2022 and nearly $400 million over the next year, CNN reported. This was in line with what Musk tweeted on October 7 in relation to costs for sending Starlink to Ukraine reaching over $100 million by the end of the year.
"We are not in a position to further donate terminals to Ukraine, or fund the existing terminals for an indefinite period of time," SpaceX's director of government sales wrote in the letter, cited by CNN.
Around 85% of the 20,000 Starlink terminals that SpaceX has delivered to Ukraine were fully or partially paid for by the US government, Poland, and other countries, according to the letter reported by CNN.
The same countries also picked up the tab for 30% of the internet connectivity, while SpaceX paid for 70%, the letter said, per CNN. This connectivity costs $4,500 per month because SpaceX offered its top service, despite most Ukrainian users requesting the $500-a-month service, SpaceX told the Pentagon in the letter, per CNN.
Note: Starlink in Ukraine was heavily funded by US Government grants as well as private philanthropy.
The gossip about what's really going on is Musk is petulant because some Ukrainian people wrote mean tweets in response to Elon's Putin-endorsed suggestion that Ukraine give up defending their country and just give some land to Russia.
posted by Nelson at 10:37 AM on October 14, 2022 [1 favorite]
The gossip about what's really going on is Musk is petulant because some Ukrainian people wrote mean tweets in response to Elon's Putin-endorsed suggestion that Ukraine give up defending their country and just give some land to Russia.
posted by Nelson at 10:37 AM on October 14, 2022 [1 favorite]
(If I'm being 100% honest, my prediction a week ago was "Musk Blocks Starlink Because People Were Mean to Him on Twitter", but this is pretty close.)
Elon Musk suggests he is pulling internet service from Ukraine after ambassador told him to ‘f*** off’
I should have stuck to my guns.
posted by ryanrs at 10:57 AM on October 14, 2022 [2 favorites]
Elon Musk suggests he is pulling internet service from Ukraine after ambassador told him to ‘f*** off’
I should have stuck to my guns.
posted by ryanrs at 10:57 AM on October 14, 2022 [2 favorites]
I'd find it more credible that Putin threatened him personally and he's looking for any public excuse no matter how puerile.
posted by seanmpuckett at 11:05 AM on October 14, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by seanmpuckett at 11:05 AM on October 14, 2022 [1 favorite]
This is the guy who cancels your Tesla pre-order if you say something uncomplimentary about him on your blog.
posted by ryanrs at 11:23 AM on October 14, 2022 [4 favorites]
posted by ryanrs at 11:23 AM on October 14, 2022 [4 favorites]
Tesla wins tax breaks from China after Elon Musk’s Taiwan comments: report
by By Ariel Zilber, New York Post
by By Ariel Zilber, New York Post
The Chinese Ministry of Industry and Information Technology unveiled its latest list of electric vehicles that are eligible for purchase tax exemption.posted by MrVisible at 10:36 PM on October 14, 2022 [2 favorites]
The list includes the latest Tesla Model S and Model X units with 100 kWh battery packs, according to the Teslarati news site. The site reported that two Model S variants — the MSP2P and the MSP2LR — as well as the Model X variants MXP2P and MXP2LR were on the list of exempt vehicles.
Elon Musk Foments More Geopolitical Controversy With Ukraine Internet Dispute. Some details on Musk's billionaire ego bullshit and how it is disrupting a country at war for its survival.
posted by Nelson at 12:56 AM on October 15, 2022
posted by Nelson at 12:56 AM on October 15, 2022
‘The hell with it’: Elon Musk tweets SpaceX will ‘keep funding Ukraine govt for free’ amid Starlink controversy
“The hell with it,” the billionaire tweeted, “even though Starlink is still losing money & other companies are getting billions of taxpayer $, we’ll just keep funding Ukraine govt for free.”posted by MrVisible at 5:15 PM on October 15, 2022
It was not immediately clear whether Musk, who is also the CEO of Tesla
, was being sarcastic. In response to a tweet about the move, Musk said, “we should still do good deeds.” Responding to another tweet saying that Musk had already paid taxes that are funding Ukraine’s defense, he said, “Fate loves irony.”
And in Someone Needs To Take The Keyboard Away From Musk For His Own Sake, he apparently posted a tweet of him (as Twitter) and Ye (as Parler) doing the DBZ fusion dance.
The term "what the everloving fuck" does not go far enough.
posted by NoxAeternum at 5:11 PM on October 17, 2022 [1 favorite]
The term "what the everloving fuck" does not go far enough.
posted by NoxAeternum at 5:11 PM on October 17, 2022 [1 favorite]
No, please engage in as much public bullshittery as possible during the lead-up to Oct 28. That is a good strategy!
I expect escalating drama over the next week and a half.
posted by ryanrs at 10:08 PM on October 18, 2022 [3 favorites]
I expect escalating drama over the next week and a half.
posted by ryanrs at 10:08 PM on October 18, 2022 [3 favorites]
Documents detail plans to gut Twitter’s workforce. Elon's big plan is to cut 75% of the staff but also double revenue and triple ad views.
The article notes even before the Musk circus got to town Twitter was planning to slash 25% of the workforce.
posted by Nelson at 11:10 PM on October 20, 2022
The article notes even before the Musk circus got to town Twitter was planning to slash 25% of the workforce.
posted by Nelson at 11:10 PM on October 20, 2022
And now the deal may be quashed on national security grounds.
posted by NoxAeternum at 8:27 AM on October 21, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by NoxAeternum at 8:27 AM on October 21, 2022 [2 favorites]
Elon Musk just FIRED Vijaya Gadde, the woman who made the call to suspend Donald Trump permanently.
Twitter executives who were fired include Parag Agrawal, Twitter’s chief executive, Ned Segal, the chief financial officer, Vijaya Gadde, the top legal and policy executive, and Sean Edgett, the general counsel.posted by Mitheral at 6:56 AM on October 28, 2022
New Musk/Twitter FPP: Dear Twitter Advertisers
posted by We had a deal, Kyle at 7:40 AM on October 28, 2022
posted by We had a deal, Kyle at 7:40 AM on October 28, 2022
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