Notwithstanding your right to strike
November 3, 2022 6:39 AM   Subscribe

The Ontario government is preparing to use the notwithstanding clause - "a magical section of the Canadian constitution that allows provincial governments to simply ignore... the fundamental freedoms and legal rights of Canadian citizens" - to force the lowest paid education workers who have fallen furthest behind inflation to stay on the job. The union has vowed to strike anyway, starting Friday, despite the threat of daily fines of $4,000 for each worker and $500,000 for the union.

The law "is declared to operate notwithstanding sections 2, 7 and 15 of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms and the Act will apply despite the Human Rights Code." It is expected to pass later today after the government cut short debate on the bill.

Legal experts say this move could open a Pandora's box with "huge repercussions on labour relations." If it proves popular with the public, "it will send a signal to other provinces that they have the upper hand in negotiations with educational institutions, as well as other public institutions." And "in a world where unions felt that historical compromise was not being followed, they might choose to resort [to] what would be called a wildcat strike."
posted by clawsoon (92 comments total) 19 users marked this as a favorite
 
The union has reportedly cut its wage demand in half, but the government refuses to negotiate further unless the union cancels its strike.
posted by clawsoon at 6:49 AM on November 3, 2022


Nevermind - the "reportedly" was reportedly fake news.
posted by clawsoon at 6:58 AM on November 3, 2022 [2 favorites]


The notwithstanding clause has always been bullshit IMO. Now let’s see how long it takes them to remove the right to quit your job.
posted by aramaic at 7:00 AM on November 3, 2022 [4 favorites]


Uh I thought the notwithstanding clause was supposed to only be used in times of war/insurrection? (Canadian but apparently I don't know jack.)
posted by joannemerriam at 7:07 AM on November 3, 2022 [1 favorite]


Now all they've done is put one more item at the bottom of workers' list of demands: "Zero out those bullshit fines you imposed. Nice try, assholes."
posted by eclectist at 7:18 AM on November 3, 2022 [10 favorites]


I thought the notwithstanding clause was supposed to only be used in times of war/insurrection?

It's routinely used by provinces throwing what amounts to legislative bullying and hissy-fits.
"Quebec, as the only provincial government to oppose the charter, passed legislation in 1982 that invoked the clause in every new law, but that stopped in 1985. In 1986, Saskatchewan used the clause to protect back-to-work legislation and Quebec used it again in 1988 to protect residents and businesses using French-only signs. Alberta tried to use the clause in a 2000 bill limiting marriage to a man and a woman, but that failed because marriage was ruled a federal jurisdiction."
posted by mhoye at 7:18 AM on November 3, 2022 [5 favorites]


Yes, this legislation is dangerous bullshit. These sorts of union-government impasses are often fast-moving, so hopefully there will be continuous talking over the weekend, and some sort of reconciliation (eg arbitration) reached by Monday.
posted by Artful Codger at 7:26 AM on November 3, 2022 [6 favorites]


I thought the notwithstanding clause was supposed to only be used in times of war/insurrection?

Nope. It was added in when the constitution was brought back from England and Trudeau (father) wanted to add the charter of rights in the constitution but had no adhesion from the provincial PMs without also adding the NW clause.

Use of the clause is limited to some rights (ie can't curtail democratic rights), has to be renewed every 5 year by the province who used it, so it hasn't been used that much.
posted by WaterAndPixels at 7:30 AM on November 3, 2022 [5 favorites]


That chart showing yearly increases of either 0% or 1% for the last 10 years (since 2012) is absolutely crazy. I'm a teacher, not support staff, but we have mandated 3% yearly wage increases in the contract to counter inflation and support staff had the biggest jump last year. There's already a crunch in education with many people quitting/retiring and teaching staff asked to do more and more and more. It's not like there will be fewer students with disabilities or requiring accommodation in the future. Or less security / custodial staff in schools???
posted by subdee at 7:32 AM on November 3, 2022 [6 favorites]


Like I don't work in Ontario but a portion of the support positions (working with special ed students) are ALWAYS unfilled here. It's a stressful job with high burnout and high turnover.
posted by subdee at 7:35 AM on November 3, 2022 [1 favorite]


The union has a picket line finder if you want to get out and support them.
posted by clawsoon at 7:37 AM on November 3, 2022 [4 favorites]


Also, this is clearly bullshit, provincial governments have ample tools and powers to resolve or even force resolution of labor issues with their employees through normal legislative processes.

Poor wages/work conditions in the public sector only end up in crisis years later when the staff has atrophied and the services can not be rendered appropriately, these raises should be a no brainer. But yeah... Ford. Best of the luck to them.
posted by WaterAndPixels at 7:39 AM on November 3, 2022 [4 favorites]


DoFo (and his family) has been a parasitic feature of the political landscape for quite long enough. It was be a good thing if he and his enablers are wrecked by this. I'm not hopeful though.
posted by Jessica Savitch's Coke Spoon at 7:42 AM on November 3, 2022 [5 favorites]


It was be a good thing if he and his enablers are wrecked by this. I'm not hopeful though.

We get good press and pat ourselves on the back a lot but once you get outside of its cities, Canada is a very racist, very sexist and in a lot of ways very backwards country.

Ford's chief qualifications for taking office were "not a woman" and "wants to make beer cheap"; from a policy perspective, the Angry Bullying Landlord Dads Party he leads unsurprisingly has a lot of support from angry dads and bullying landlords, of which Ontario has a significant oversupply. This kind of action isn't at all surprising, because we're talking about an issue at the intersection of unions, underpaid labour, jobs done mostly by women and the education system, and the Conservative party - and their core constituency - hates all of those things, and will be happy to see them beat down with the biggest stick available.
posted by mhoye at 8:00 AM on November 3, 2022 [28 favorites]


I'm skimming through the bill and wondering about 6(2). "Every employer shall use all reasonable efforts to resume any operations interrupted during any strike or lock-out." The $500,000-a-day fine applies to this section. Does this mean the government is going to fine school boards that stay closed during the strike, too?
posted by clawsoon at 8:06 AM on November 3, 2022


Florida is doing an end run around teacher strikes by just removing requirements to be a teacher. Depressing wages and ensuring that government services are hamstrung are core to conservative governance.
posted by kzin602 at 8:19 AM on November 3, 2022 [3 favorites]


To illustrate mhoye's point, remember that Ford has been endorsed by other unions (eg: LiUNA).
posted by aramaic at 8:24 AM on November 3, 2022 [2 favorites]


Interesting perspective from a "Minister of Education in Alberta for 7 years, including the time the Charter was developed and enacted". (threadreaderapp version)
...the Ontario public has been successfully deconstructed. From a distance, it appears that Ontario no longer has a cohesive ‘public’, with a strong sense that “we’re all in this together”, or “I’ve got your back". The Government of Ontario has decided that, in this instance & going forward, they can deal with every political issue through the lens of isolated, frightened, & demeaned ‘interest’ groups.
posted by clawsoon at 8:29 AM on November 3, 2022 [5 favorites]


Uh I thought the notwithstanding clause was supposed to only be used in times of war/insurrection? (Canadian but apparently I don't know jack.)

Like waterandpixels says above, it can be used any old time. And powers aside, there were certain tacit agreements or kinda-accepted norms about its invocation being an extreme measure. Gauche, even. Norms are completely out the window here.

It's as though someone mentioned the existence of the notwithstanding clause to Ford and he went, "THAT'S SO FUCKIN' COOL. IT'S LIKE THE CHARTER NO LONGER APPLIES TO ANYTHING IF WE KEEP USING IT, RIGHT?

To illustrate mhoye's point, remember that Ford has been endorsed by other unions (eg: LiUNA).

It seems they've started to express concern this could be turned on them as well:

The Laborers’ International Union of North America (LiUNA), representing mainly construction workers, endorsed the PC Party ahead of the election, but addressed a stinging letter to Minister of Education Stephen Lecce on Tuesday.

The union told the education minister that his new legislation “sets a dangerous precedent that aims to erode respect for collective bargaining rights and unionized labour in Ontario.”


"I never thought they'd eat my face," cries union that supported the Leopards Eating Union Members' Faces Party.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 8:52 AM on November 3, 2022 [19 favorites]


That's the thing that bugs me. Given how big a majority the Tories won in the last election, it seems that a significant number of union members, including members of CUPE, likely voted for him. I just don't understand that kind of thinking. Why put somebody into power who you know will do his best to work against you and undermine you?
posted by sardonyx at 9:24 AM on November 3, 2022 [1 favorite]


OPSEU education workers are walking off the job on Friday in solidarity with CUPE colleagues.

There needs to be a lot more of that. Not just talk. Job action from other unions, in other sectors.
posted by Gerald Bostock at 9:25 AM on November 3, 2022 [8 favorites]


That's the thing that bugs me. Given how big a majority the Tories won in the last election, it seems that a significant number of union members, including members of CUPE, likely voted for him. I just don't understand that kind of thinking. Why put somebody into power who you know will do his best to work against you and undermine you?

Can't speak to Ontario or the Canadian Conservative party but my husband works in construction and you wouldn't believe (maybe you would) how many unionized construction workers - who BTW are in a great union that negotiates extremely good benefits for members - are racist conservative Trumpists. Their class identity / white identity takes precedence over the real benefits they get from electing politicians who support organized labor.
posted by subdee at 9:48 AM on November 3, 2022 [14 favorites]


I was an ed assistant during the "Rae days" and even at the time I thought that was way better than lowering wages. Ontario unions have had an uneasy time finding any political home since they dumped the NDP and I really hope this moves the needle. Unions backing a modern-day Conservative is just - whackadoodle.

Here's the reality on the ground: I hire for positions very like ed assistants. For our experienced staff, we pay well above the CUPE average. This is because in the free marketplace, we had to do that to retain good people. Also, ethics and people being able to afford rent.

I also am a strong believer that taxpayers should be GOOD employers, not shit employers. The reasons for that are many, including just setting a bar, but also that you do want really good people, and you want them not to be looking to take bribes from developers or buddy buddy with particular massive grocery/pharmacy chains...oh wait, $166,000/yr doesn't seem to do that. :P

I'll be on a plane Friday but otherwise I would be at Queen's Park. I was for the last round of education worker strikes. Highly recommend. From all the rumours, Doug Ford does kind of care when he sees a lot of people...maybe not as much as his first 2 years in office, but he is populist in that particular way.

I really, really hope unions across the country get behind this and the Nov 23 day of action to preserve workers' rights in this country. I believe it worked in BC in the 90s.
posted by warriorqueen at 10:08 AM on November 3, 2022 [7 favorites]


That's the thing that bugs me. Given how big a majority the Tories won in the last election, it seems that a significant number of union members, including members of CUPE, likely voted for him. I just don't understand that kind of thinking. Why put somebody into power who you know will do his best to work against you and undermine you?

It's "only" 55000 workers, even if they all vote not-Ford, does it even show up? I believe nanos had support for the conservatives way lower for women than men in their polls, and this union majoritarily represents women.
posted by WaterAndPixels at 10:18 AM on November 3, 2022


clawsoon, from that threadreader link....

What the government of Ontario has done to education assistants to-day, it can do to the construction trades, or doctors, or legal aid, or property, or any other ‘interest groups’ tomorrow. #onted #onpoli

I doubt they'd go for the construction trade unions. For one, it's probably a really good constituency for them being mostly male, and well subdee is right, this is a conservative bunch. (Not all of them but a lot of them).

Also, since they aren't school/healthcare/etc they aren't an essential service so they have a lot more leeway to go on strike. Government can eventually get involved citing the need for the economy to keep rolling if negations stalls but it's a really bad look if they swoop in, immediately....

But Ford? I don't know, we rely on norms because codifying everything is impossible, and will result in absurd things. But clearly, this is breaking down.
posted by WaterAndPixels at 10:34 AM on November 3, 2022 [1 favorite]


they aren't an essential service

Miraculous how they became one in order to keep the construction industry open during lockdown, though, innit?
posted by clawsoon at 10:42 AM on November 3, 2022 [7 favorites]


> We get good press and pat ourselves on the back a lot but once you get outside of its cities, Canada is a very racist, very sexist and in a lot of ways very backwards country.

I grew up in Sarnia (current population, about 75,000) and my sister and parents still live there, so I go back to visit regularly. In 2006 it flipped from being a federal Liberal riding to Conservative and has only gone further in that direction since then; the MP is Marilyn Gladu, who stands out as a loon even amongst Poilievre's gang of malicious idiots, and IIRC the Sarnia-Lambton riding had one of the highest levels of support for the PPC in Ontario. Around the time of the last election and the convoy there were a bunch of houses around town with vaguely-threatening messaging on homemade signs and there were ominous encampments of trucks in fields outside of town for a while (there was a half-assed attempt made to blockade the Bluewater Bridge, but by that point the situation with the convoy had already turned into a shitshow and it wasn't allowed to happen).

And let me tell you, compared to the farm-heavy areas and small towns between Sarnia and London, Sarnia is fucking San Francisco. The last time I attended the Brigden Fair (which would have been in 2018) there were vendor stalls selling Confederate flag and MAGA merch and we saw a bunch of cars and (mostly) pickup trucks with openly racist or homophobic bunker stickers. It's fucked.

And so here we are. The fact that Ontario elected Doug Ford Premier once, let alone twice, is a sign that the public here has been, as clawsoon's link very eloquently put it, "successfully deconstructed," and moving forward will be even more receptive to "watch out, they're taking your cookie!"-style messaging. Times are hard and they're only going to get harder, which makes it even easier for conservative politicians to appeal to peoples' worst natures, which is always a hell of a lot easier than trying to appeal to their best. They're going to run the health care and education systems into the ground, blame labour for the problems (which always works) and privatize everything they can.
posted by The Card Cheat at 10:43 AM on November 3, 2022 [14 favorites]


Ford reminds me of nothing so much as one of the regional lords in The Witcher 3 game, one of the ones who is weak (of mind), bloated (of brain), and corrupt (of morals) and holds onto power because he's just connected enough to keep his cronies well-fed and just bully enough to keep his toadies in-line. He's a vacuous speaker, a coward when confronted, and absolutely beloved by the truck-nuts crowd who sees in him the possibility that their futures are rosy and bright despite the fact of their lack of schooling, manners, empathy and kindness: "if a dumb-fuck like that can be premier (and everyone knows he's a dumb-fuck), the world's my goddamn oyster isn't it." (If you're an arrogant white man in Ontario, yes, yes, it is). I'd say he's a shit-stain on Ontario's underwear, but you need to know that Ontario's underwear has never, ever been washed and he's just the latest skid to leave his mark on the province.

Siiiiigh. Well, that was a little cathartic.
posted by seanmpuckett at 10:48 AM on November 3, 2022 [12 favorites]


Miraculous how they became one in order to keep the construction industry open during lockdown, though, innit?

To be fair, there's a part of this industry who's absolutely essential. Elective kitchen remodelings can wait, but sewer that backed up in your basement, or burst frozen pipe are things that are emergencies and need repair. Could condo project X be delayed, less critical but we're also in a housing crisis and this doesn't get solved by not building more, so...

I knew somebody who was in a rental apartment waiting for his house to be finished before he could move in, he was surely glad this got restarted since he had to leave at a fixed date.

With all that said, we all know it got the go because it's a huge chunk of the economy that absolutely can't be worked from home.
posted by WaterAndPixels at 10:57 AM on November 3, 2022


The last time I attended the Brigden Fair (which would have been in 2018) there were vendor stalls selling Confederate flag and MAGA merch
posted by The Card Cheat at 10:43 AM on November 3 [1 favorite]


I went this year and I'm happy to say that there was none, zero of the Confederate or MAGA stuff displayed for sale. I guess we'll see next year if it was a one-off or not.
posted by The Notorious SRD at 11:17 AM on November 3, 2022 [2 favorites]


Ford's chief qualifications for taking office were "not a woman" and "wants to make beer cheap";

He also talked a good game about putting a stop to the tide of refugees evil Justin Trudeau was forcing into our communities. He didn’t actually do anything, of course, but by saying it he established his bonafides as the white guy for the job with Ontarians.
posted by rodlymight at 11:26 AM on November 3, 2022 [3 favorites]


I was in a taxi a couple of years back with a recent immigrant driver who was a vocal Ford supporter. I asked him why, and he said that it seemed like Ford was "on the side" of people like him.

Ford does give off that blue-collar hard-working vibe, and talks like he supports hard-working blue-collar families who are doing their best to get by. The reality is different from the vibe, and hopefully this all works out in a way that opens up the eyes of people like that taxi driver.
posted by clawsoon at 11:30 AM on November 3, 2022 [4 favorites]


Transit workers' union plans to show up tomorrow, though they haven't gone as far as mooting a sympathy strike.
posted by clawsoon at 11:32 AM on November 3, 2022


WaterAndPixels: we saw a bunch of cars and (mostly) pickup trucks with openly racist or homophobic bunker stickers

Bolding part of your comment for emphasis, apologies! I know it's (probably?) a typo, but some of the garbage I've seen on the backs of cars/trucks even here in the seemingly-mildly-progressive enclave of Redmonton would make Archie Bunker's jaw drop to his shoe-tops.
posted by hangashore at 11:37 AM on November 3, 2022 [1 favorite]


I also am a strong believer that taxpayers should be GOOD employers.

The government should be good employers. Education workers don't work for taxpayers, they work for the government or for the people of Ontario.
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 11:41 AM on November 3, 2022 [1 favorite]


The government should be good employers. Education workers don't work for taxpayers, they work for the government or for the people of Ontario.

Yeah, but when you set up "the government" vs. "the taxpayers" people are all like "oh woe my taxes go to wages."
posted by warriorqueen at 11:48 AM on November 3, 2022 [4 favorites]


Funny thing... most of the "taxpayer!!!" posts I've seen on Twitter seem to be from retirees.
posted by clawsoon at 11:51 AM on November 3, 2022 [4 favorites]


My in-laws live in Port Perry, and once, after we left from visiting them, we decided to dawdle on the drive home. What the heck, I've never been to Lindsay, Ontario, so let's pass through! We do, see there is a classic car show on the main strip. We get out, walk around, and begin to notice that wow, a lot of these cars seem to have Confederate flags on them. Being a native Southerner, I am horrified. I did not think of the Venn diagram for antique car restoration and racism.

(Tragically, I continue to be horrified as a lot of the Convoy idiots used this symbol of hate and it shows up still where I least expect it.)
posted by Kitteh at 11:56 AM on November 3, 2022 [4 favorites]


Funny thing... most of the "taxpayer!!!" posts I've seen on Twitter seem to be from retirees.

HA! (bitterly.) So damn shortsighted and selfish! I'm a retiree and am all about maintaining and increasing public-service and publicly-funded employment. Those paycheques are going to find their way back into the local/regional economy and stimulate the private sector. Cutting spending in the midst of a recession is a FANTASTIC way of screwing over those noble entrepreneurs and brave small business owners that conservatives supposedly value so highly.
posted by hangashore at 11:58 AM on November 3, 2022 [3 favorites]


I keep trying to type out something relevant to the conversation, but I continue to be blinded by my rage at what a malignant shitbag DoFo is and how Ontario teachers continue to get scapegoated by the Cons every few years. anybody that thinks a teacher is rooking the province for the pay is out of their goddamned mind
posted by hearthpig at 12:17 PM on November 3, 2022 [8 favorites]


The prohibitions on striking will probably be challenged on the basis that they are in "pith and substance" criminal law, which is exclusively federal jurisdiction. I'd be surprised if that succeeds in the end, but if they get a lucky judge it could be held off.
posted by lookoutbelow at 12:17 PM on November 3, 2022


Quebec used it again in 1988 to protect residents and businesses using French-only signs

That's not what happened. It's a side point to the subject of this thread, but it's a very important one in the history of Quebec and Canada, so let's take a moment to set the record straight.

Quebec used the notwithstanding clause in 1988 to perpetuate legislation that restricted the use of languages other than French on commercial signs.

Quebec's own highest court of appeal found, and the Supreme Court of Canada held, that the pertinent legislation infringed the freedom of expression guaranteed not only by the federal Charter of Rights and Freedoms, but by Quebec's own Charte des droits et libertés de la personne.

https://www.canlii.org/en/ca/scc/doc/1988/1988canlii19/1988canlii19.html
posted by tangerine at 12:26 PM on November 3, 2022 [9 favorites]


My spouse is a teacher in the Toronto board and even though schools are closed they still have to go to school which I really don't understand. I mean I understand why the board and principal would want teachers to come but shouldn't her union call for a strike on Friday at least? School's already closed so show support for the workers that literally support you. Maybe, hopefully, they'll send out an email saying they'll be striking as well once it's confirmed there's no deal and that schools will be closed for sure.
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 1:16 PM on November 3, 2022 [5 favorites]


@Alan_S_Hale:
CUPE says they are on strike "indefinitely" and vowing to return to the kind of labour action from the time before legally protected strikes even existed.

"They don't know what they have started."
posted by clawsoon at 1:54 PM on November 3, 2022 [5 favorites]


> I asked him why, and he said that it seemed like Ford was "on the side" of people like him.

This will never not baffle me, same thing with Trump. Doug Ford has never been anything but The Boss's Asshole Kid, but because he and Rob were/are "good" at talking that talk, the image just cemented itself in people's heads forever and ever and ever, no matter what they did or do.

My union is going to be at Queen's Park tomorrow morning, so I will be too, although I have responsibilities in the afternoon so I'll have to leave by noon.
posted by The Card Cheat at 1:56 PM on November 3, 2022 [7 favorites]


I've lurked on here for a decade and this is my first comment.

If you are in Toronto, there is a rally being held by the Ontario Parent Action Network starting at the Sheraton Hotel at 123 Queen St. West.

If you want to come out and support workers at a picket line starting tomorrow, you can use this picket line finder from the Ontario Federation of Labour.

This is a serious blow to labour rights in Ontario, and probably all of Canada.

Please come out to have your voice heard if you can.
posted by Dalekdad at 2:00 PM on November 3, 2022 [19 favorites]


I doubt they'd go for the construction trade unions. For one, it's probably a really good constituency for them being mostly male, and well subdee is right, this is a conservative bunch. (Not all of them but a lot of them).

Do I need to finally read whatever it was that Marx and Engels wrote about the labour aristocracy?
posted by clawsoon at 2:27 PM on November 3, 2022 [4 favorites]


As a government worker in BC who's union is essentially run by tepid strivers out for their own careers this terrifies me.
I am currently reading a book on the massive Solidarity movement in BC that erupted in in 1983 and what is really appalling is how the old line labour leaders in the province torpedoed it before it became a general strike.
I guess my point is essentially asking what are the leaders of CUPE like in Ontario? Are they good? Are they willing to fight?
posted by Phlegmco(tm) at 2:36 PM on November 3, 2022 [2 favorites]


Laura Walton (OSBCU president) scrum, worth a watch.
posted by clawsoon at 3:03 PM on November 3, 2022 [2 favorites]


He's a vacuous speaker, a coward when confronted

...and wasn't even in the fucking legislature for the final vote on the goddamn bill today. So, case in point, I guess.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 3:10 PM on November 3, 2022 [7 favorites]


From the scrum it sounds like the offer the union made to cut their wage demand in half that was true and then wasn't true is true again.
posted by clawsoon at 3:35 PM on November 3, 2022 [2 favorites]




Still looking for full video for that last quote...
posted by clawsoon at 3:50 PM on November 3, 2022


Is any picketing happening in front of the schools themselves or are the striking workers only doing it at designated locations? I would like to go with my kids to their school tomorrow so that they could support the staff they see every day but if they're all going to be at Queen's Park then maybe we'll need to go there instead. The weather's going to be beautiful tomorrow too.
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 4:19 PM on November 3, 2022 [3 favorites]


I'll be at QP tomorrow, at least for part of the afternoon. I hope others will too.
posted by Evstar at 4:45 PM on November 3, 2022 [4 favorites]


Since people are looking for picket line locations, the info is available at a site run by the union, DontBeABully.ca
posted by peppermind at 5:37 PM on November 3, 2022 [2 favorites]


I'll probably swing by QP briefly but crowds and loud sounds are damaging to me so will probably just raise a solidarity fist while ambling through.
posted by seanmpuckett at 6:35 PM on November 3, 2022 [1 favorite]


Grocery GoFundMe for CUPE OSBCU workers, 25% of whom use the food bank.
posted by clawsoon at 6:49 PM on November 3, 2022 [1 favorite]


So, case in point, I guess.

Doug doesn’t show up for work a lot.
posted by mhoye at 3:48 AM on November 4, 2022 [4 favorites]




I doubt they'd go for the construction trade unions.

The already have. The conservative goverments have been attempting to de skill trades (suppressing wages and hurtings unions). EG: instead of an electrician doing everything associated with electrical work they introduce conduit or wire pulling or lightbulb changing licences. Said licences by design requiring less time and education command lower wages. Also those licences don't have an upgrade path to full electrical license.
posted by Mitheral at 4:08 AM on November 4, 2022 [5 favorites]


Trade union guy on the radio just now. He sounded remorseful and bewildered. Subdued. "Buyer's remorse" was the phrase he used. Said that his union is 100% behind CUPE, though he wasn't asked whether that support would translate into any walk-off-the-job action.
posted by clawsoon at 4:25 AM on November 4, 2022 [3 favorites]


Gotta watch out for those face-eating cheetahs, man, they're everywhere.
posted by seanmpuckett at 4:41 AM on November 4, 2022 [6 favorites]


The already have. The conservative goverments have been attempting to de skill trades (suppressing wages and hurtings unions). EG: instead of an electrician doing everything associated with electrical work they introduce conduit or wire pulling or lightbulb changing licences. Said licences by design requiring less time and education command lower wages. Also those licences don't have an upgrade path to full electrical license.

I gotta show this to my husband (in the local Electrician's union), he'd laugh. His union is ALWAYS getting contracts from notoriously anti-union companies to work on their big construction projects at union rates of close to $90 / hour, because these companies have learned from experience that you get what you pay for - and when they hired the non-union guys the work was done badly and had to be redone anyway, costing more money. He's worked on both an Amazon Warehouse and to refurbish a Walmart in the last four years.

I guess schools and government buildings don't care how much they ultimately spend when they have to fire those liscenced guys and bring in union guys after they fuck up the wiring?
posted by subdee at 6:14 AM on November 4, 2022 [4 favorites]


I mean I guess wire pulling by itself is not super skilled - neither is changing lightbulbs or commercial solar panel installation - and you could have one (nonunion) licensed electrician supervising a bunch of guys on the jobsite who are brought in to do just this one specific thing. So maybe it's something to watch out for. But so far electrical work has been the most insulated from companies try to hire nonunion because the work for these big commercial buildings is fairly skilled and there's expensive consequences if you get it wrong.

Oh and also the way to hire union labor cheaply is to hire the union apprentices. So if it's an unskilled part of the job you get the apprentices on that part.
posted by subdee at 6:17 AM on November 4, 2022 [2 favorites]


A cow orker thinks that this was a tactical move to evade forced arbitration.

If the government really wanted these people back in school, they could declare these workers to be essential, and bring back-to-work legislation. That short circuits direct labour action, but would also bind the government to an arbitration process. Historically, arbitration has been marginally more favourable to unions when essential status is in play. After all, if they are essential, they should be compensated accordingly. Usually this happens quietly, quite some time after the back-to-work legislation goes in to effect.

So they (the orker) thinks that some conservative policy wonk floated this as a tactic. But there's a difference between tactical and strategic thinking*. They think the government did not anticipate any strategic problems, because they didn't approach this strategically.

*: Also between tactical (<50kt) and strategic (100kt+) nukes**.
**: I wonder which a general strike may be?
posted by TheHuntForBlueMonday at 8:29 AM on November 4, 2022 [1 favorite]


Folks at Queen's Park seem well rested, conserving energy, doing a little chanting, but mostly marching and looking determined. I'll guess about 4-5k just before lunch. Lots of other unions represented, including education, healthcare, public sector, trades. It's good to see.
posted by seanmpuckett at 9:22 AM on November 4, 2022 [5 favorites]


Given how big a majority the Tories won in the last election, it seems that a significant number of union members, including members of CUPE, likely voted for him.

Only seven unions endorsed him in the last election (he pretended it was all of them, of course, to attack the NDP). And it's worth remembering that turnout in the last election was abysmal - only 43 percent of voters voted, down 13 percent from 2018. Most union members - including most CUPE members - don't vote Tory and that hasn't changed.
posted by mightygodking at 9:33 AM on November 4, 2022


I agree with seanmpuckett... There are several thousand people at Queen's Park... Lots of signs, and representatives from several other unions. Everyone does indeed look quite positive and determined.
posted by Multicellular Exothermic at 9:40 AM on November 4, 2022 [8 favorites]


I was hoping to make it today with my daughter, but she's been having a tough day and is currently sleeping. Hopefully we can get out there on some future days.
posted by clawsoon at 10:38 AM on November 4, 2022


Where's Mike Harris when you need him?

That was the best thing about the pandemic - it shut CUPE up for two years.
posted by raider at 9:40 AM on November 5, 2022


We would have gone to Queens Park yesterday but my son and I were both sick. If they're still out there on Thursday I will probably go to the protest while my son is at school. I expect they'll still be there.

Even apart from mistreating the education workers, I am greatly disturbed by the casual use of the Notwithstanding Clause. This should be something used when the government has tried everything else and has nothing left to try. It shouldn't be trotted out pre-emptively whenever the government feels inconvenienced by people's rights. I think there's a strong case to be made the common-law/the unwritten constitution support that view and I hope there will be lawyers making it soon. There needs to be something analogous to the Oakes test for use of the notwithstanding clause.

Remember if they can trot out the notwithstanding clause casually now for this, they can do the same for ANY right they decide interferes with their plans. "We sure would love to jail the homeless but that violates section 12 and 7 and 9? No problem. Notwithstanding clause." "Let's not have OHIP cover immigrants and especially not refugees...section 15? Oh don't worry..nothwithstanding clause". And if this government can do it, any government can, so even if you're a hardcore conservative, this should terrify you. Whatever terrifying thing you're convinced the NDP would do if they ever get in again, they can probably do it.
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 10:12 AM on November 5, 2022 [3 favorites]


raider: That was the best thing about the pandemic - it shut CUPE up for two years.

Well, no, they made a lot of noise trying to get the government to spend money on Covid safety. The government didn't, so schools kept getting closed down. But whatcha gonna do?
posted by clawsoon at 10:30 AM on November 5, 2022 [3 favorites]


David Doorey, Associate Professor of Work Law at York University, with a Twitter thread following the Labour Board hearings. Threadreaderapp version.
posted by clawsoon at 3:40 PM on November 5, 2022 [1 favorite]


Looks like the Threadreaderapp version cuts off halfway through, so you'll have to go to Twitter for the full (and ongoing) summary.
posted by clawsoon at 3:55 PM on November 5, 2022


David Doorey has given up for the night, but the lawyers are still going. (I suspect that link won't work once the hearing is done.) As far as I can tell, the CUPE lawyers are arguing that this isn't a strike according to the applicable laws, since those laws define a strike in terms of negotiated agreements (when strikes aren't allowed) and periods between negotiated agreements (when they are). Because this is an extraordinary case where there's no negotiated agreement, this is outside of the scope of those laws and therefore isn't a strike to which those laws apply. I.e. the government broke the system, therefore the definitions in the system don't apply.

It seems like a stretch - they're trying to find the one tiny hole that the government failed to plaster over when they wrote the law - but I guess we'll see if Mr. O'Byrne is convinced.
posted by clawsoon at 8:08 PM on November 5, 2022


400+ people stayed up till 1:40am to see if the OLRB hearing was going to continue tonight or adjourn. Is this normal? This does not seem normal. But this is not a normal situation.

(It's adjourned until tomorrow at 7am.)
posted by clawsoon at 10:45 PM on November 5, 2022 [1 favorite]


There was an interesting discussion of discretion in the last hour or so of today's hearing. The CUPE lawyers told the adjudicator that he had considerable discretion to decide whether what is happening is an illegal strike or not, to reserve judgement or not, to decide on remedies, to come up with creative ideas to resolve the dispute. The adjudicator said, yes, of course I have discretion.

The government lawyers said, yes, of course you have discretion, but it has to be within the bounds of Bill 28. The adjudicator asked what his options were within the limits of Bill 28 - what discretion was available to him, exactly? - and the government lawyers said he had to exactly implement what the government was asking for. ...which sounds to me like no discretion.

I have no idea how the psychology of this sort of thing works out.

Poking around the OLRB website, I see that there are no appeals to OLRB rulings, but the decisions can be reconsidered or judicially reviewed. ...which sounds to me like an appeal.

So what do I know? [shrug] Not much!
posted by clawsoon at 11:48 PM on November 5, 2022 [1 favorite]


This morning's livestream of the OLRB hearings, starting at 7am. It's not like normal livestreams, in that you can't watch it later.
posted by clawsoon at 4:01 AM on November 6, 2022


If I were the OLRB adjudicator I'd be drinking right now as I stared down the choice of good vs. legal.
posted by clawsoon at 5:13 AM on November 7, 2022 [3 favorites]


CUPE is calling for a general strike on November 14. I hope it gets traction. GO buses are out for an unrelated strike today too.
posted by warriorqueen at 7:05 AM on November 7, 2022 [1 favorite]




I wonder if/when the background story will come out about the last 24 hours. What made Ford reverse course so completely? Aaaaaaall the unions coming out against him? The threat of an indefinite strike? Maybe the OLRB adjudicator indicating that he wasn't willing to declare an illegal strike? Pressure from his MPs, who got pressure from parents and other citizens? The size of the protests?
posted by clawsoon at 9:19 AM on November 7, 2022 [3 favorites]


A visit from his dead Nan?
posted by clawsoon at 12:28 PM on November 7, 2022


What made Ford reverse course so completely?

Stern phone calls from his CEO buddies explaining that a general strike would be very, very bad for business and for his political future?
posted by Epixonti at 12:52 PM on November 7, 2022 [1 favorite]


Ford reverses course a fair bit, it's one of the few redeeming qualities he has. Ideally he wouldn't make the boneheaded decisions in the first place but when enough people put pressure on him he does eventually see the light.
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 1:25 PM on November 7, 2022 [3 favorites]


Ford reverses course a fair bit, it's one of the few redeeming qualities he has. Ideally he wouldn't make the boneheaded decisions in the first place but when enough people put pressure on him he does eventually see the light.

I've been wondering if it's sinking in that Lavrentiy Beria Stephen Lecce led him down the path to what I'm guessing is his most humiliating political defeat ever. Surely if there was ever a time to throw someone under the bus, this is it.
posted by clawsoon at 1:51 PM on November 7, 2022 [1 favorite]


I dunno. Lecce has proven himself to be utterly without shame, willing to emit any lie whatsoever, even one that is incandescently incorrect. That's comparatively rare in Canadian politics, as yet? Seems like a keeper.
posted by seanmpuckett at 3:27 PM on November 7, 2022


An enormous embarrassment for Stephen Lecce and Doug Ford, Rob Gillezeau in The Star:
Pre-emptive back-to-work legislation and the use of the notwithstanding clause broke the 80-year compromise between government, employers, and workers on how collective bargaining is supposed to work. It was a reckless, political decision that shut down schools by forcing educators to take to the picket lines given the assault on their fundamental rights. And, in a handful of days, he has both undone years of work by his cabinet colleague Monte McNaughton to build a conservative bridgehead in the labour movement and forced the government to do a complete 180 to attempt to minimize the damage from his overreach.
posted by clawsoon at 3:57 PM on November 7, 2022 [3 favorites]


McNaughton must be spitting mad, 'cos he's always been in there glad-handing labour and wanting them to understand how low taxes and weak unions can "help" them. Maybe now people might pay attention to the greenbelt scamaroonie that Doug's trying to pull this week
posted by scruss at 7:35 PM on November 7, 2022


I saw a random comment on Reddit saying that back when Lecce was appointed, there was some speculation that Ford was doing it in order to give a potential future leadership rival an impossible portfolio. Anybody remember speculation like that?
posted by clawsoon at 6:13 AM on November 8, 2022


For anyone who was waiting like me, it's like the OLRB application never happened:
Many of you have inquired about the Ontario Labour Relations Board (OLRB) proceedings that occurred last weekend.

We have received confirmation today that the Unlawful Strike Application filed by the Minister of Education has been withdrawn.

No further actions or steps will be taken in the matter. No decision will be rendered.
posted by clawsoon at 3:40 PM on November 9, 2022


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