The highest degree of reprehensibility
November 10, 2022 12:39 PM Subscribe
Alex Jones ordered to pay nearly half a billion dollars to Sandy Hook families in additional damages (CNN). "This depravity, and cruel, persistent course of conduct by the defendants establishes the highest degree of reprehensibility and blameworthiness," said Judge Barbara Bellis in her decision.
Tucker Carlson Warns That Alex Jones's Billion-Dollar Penalty Will Have Chilling Effect on Lying (satire, The New Yorker)
Alex Jones's Assets Are Frozen by Judge in Sandy Hook Case (Bloomberg)
Infowars host Alex Jones ordered to pay $473m more to Sandy Hook families (The Guardian)
Judge orders Alex Jones to pay $473 million more to Sandy Hook families (Washington Post)
Previously. Previously.
Tucker Carlson Warns That Alex Jones's Billion-Dollar Penalty Will Have Chilling Effect on Lying (satire, The New Yorker)
Alex Jones's Assets Are Frozen by Judge in Sandy Hook Case (Bloomberg)
Infowars host Alex Jones ordered to pay $473m more to Sandy Hook families (The Guardian)
Judge orders Alex Jones to pay $473 million more to Sandy Hook families (Washington Post)
Previously. Previously.
christ, what an asshole
posted by ryanrs at 12:51 PM on November 10, 2022 [11 favorites]
posted by ryanrs at 12:51 PM on November 10, 2022 [11 favorites]
Good. Fuck this lying shitbag to hell.
posted by Windopaene at 12:51 PM on November 10, 2022 [10 favorites]
posted by Windopaene at 12:51 PM on November 10, 2022 [10 favorites]
Anybody have a link to the decision itself? Having a hard time finding the text
posted by TheProfessor at 12:52 PM on November 10, 2022
posted by TheProfessor at 12:52 PM on November 10, 2022
Exile him to the Russian military
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 12:55 PM on November 10, 2022 [4 favorites]
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 12:55 PM on November 10, 2022 [4 favorites]
Good.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 12:55 PM on November 10, 2022 [5 favorites]
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 12:55 PM on November 10, 2022 [5 favorites]
Couldn't happen to a nicer. (I'm from Texas and detested him before all the cool kids did. He was a jackass when he was only a local/state celebrity and has only gotten worse.)
posted by gentlyepigrams at 12:57 PM on November 10, 2022 [12 favorites]
posted by gentlyepigrams at 12:57 PM on November 10, 2022 [12 favorites]
Good.
posted by supermedusa at 1:00 PM on November 10, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by supermedusa at 1:00 PM on November 10, 2022 [1 favorite]
"Jones’s company, Free Speech Systems LLC, is also liable for the verdict. It filed for bankruptcy in Texas in July." That's from the Guardian article. Does anyone know if there's a chance InfoWars can be held liable? I thought I read somewhere that people were donating money to them.
posted by Gorgik at 1:02 PM on November 10, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by Gorgik at 1:02 PM on November 10, 2022 [2 favorites]
I have been listening to the depositions (titled "Formulaic Objections") on the podcast Knowledge Fight, and they are a startling case study in mendacity and/or willful ignorance, topped with a glistening void of empathy. They are really long, but, if you can stomach them, they(and the general trial coverage) are quite enlightening.
posted by GenjiandProust at 1:04 PM on November 10, 2022 [11 favorites]
posted by GenjiandProust at 1:04 PM on November 10, 2022 [11 favorites]
Free Speech Systems LLC "owns" InfoWars, although it seems a little more complicated, as Jones and his parents have set up a nest of shell corporations, possibly to hide money, possibly to obscure the connections between the supplement business and InfoWars, although Jones has supposedly been boasting about it on the air, so I don't know how "hidden" the trail really is. Perhaps somone more dogged in their understanding has a better idea than me.....
posted by GenjiandProust at 1:08 PM on November 10, 2022 [5 favorites]
posted by GenjiandProust at 1:08 PM on November 10, 2022 [5 favorites]
Here is the link to the decision itself, might take a minute to load as it's a pdf.
posted by yasaman at 1:10 PM on November 10, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by yasaman at 1:10 PM on November 10, 2022 [3 favorites]
Good.
posted by bigendian at 1:10 PM on November 10, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by bigendian at 1:10 PM on November 10, 2022 [2 favorites]
It's a shame that capitalist punishment via fines is all this man is going to suffer. He should have his ability to run any of his falsehood-spreading businesses stripped from him and put in jail for libel/slander/whatever is needed to get him off the streets and unable to communicate with the masses ever again.
posted by hippybear at 1:10 PM on November 10, 2022 [29 favorites]
posted by hippybear at 1:10 PM on November 10, 2022 [29 favorites]
Good.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 1:12 PM on November 10, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 1:12 PM on November 10, 2022 [3 favorites]
As Mark Bankston, who represented Sandy Hook families in the Texas trial*, quipped:
Speech is free, but lies you have to pay for.
*He's also the guy from the "Perry Mason moment" of confronting Jones about the copy of his cell phone, so they guy understands the power of a good quip
posted by The demon that lives in the air at 1:18 PM on November 10, 2022 [41 favorites]
Speech is free, but lies you have to pay for.
*He's also the guy from the "Perry Mason moment" of confronting Jones about the copy of his cell phone, so they guy understands the power of a good quip
posted by The demon that lives in the air at 1:18 PM on November 10, 2022 [41 favorites]
I honestly can't wait for the day I can Bette Davis the memory of him. It's one thing to put your own beliefs and feelings and desires for politics out there and flame populist feelings. That's the nature of the system we live in. But to willfully and wantonly inflict this kind of damage on these families, I don't even know what can be said.
posted by drewbage1847 at 1:20 PM on November 10, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by drewbage1847 at 1:20 PM on November 10, 2022 [1 favorite]
One of the more revolting things in the punitive hearings was Norm Pattis demonstrating the definition of chutzpah by arguing that there should be no punitive award because the plaintiffs produced no evidence of Jones's financial gain - ignoring that the reason they couldn't was because of his refusal to comply with discovery. As legal commentator Morgan Stringer pointed out:
Norm essentially saying he should benefit because no financial evidence was presented really is disgraceful because his own client refused to provide that evidence. He should not be allowed to benefit from his client's sanctioned behavior.posted by NoxAeternum at 1:27 PM on November 10, 2022 [11 favorites]
Does anyone feel like they understand, from his point of view, what the point was of all of this? Why did he do all of this in the first place? I know the surface answer is "to keep his audience entertained with fresh content to harvest their cash with" but is that the only reason?
posted by bleep at 1:28 PM on November 10, 2022 [5 favorites]
posted by bleep at 1:28 PM on November 10, 2022 [5 favorites]
Trying to reason about the motivations of sociopathic nihilists is like trying to visualize objects in five dimensions. It's not something normal people are (or should be) able to do. And yet, we can't stop ourselves.
posted by klanawa at 1:31 PM on November 10, 2022 [8 favorites]
posted by klanawa at 1:31 PM on November 10, 2022 [8 favorites]
I don't always buy this as the answer, but it fits here:
The cruelty IS the point.
posted by jclarkin at 1:32 PM on November 10, 2022 [20 favorites]
The cruelty IS the point.
posted by jclarkin at 1:32 PM on November 10, 2022 [20 favorites]
Good. Now go after those fuckwits that also participated in the sustained harassment. Those "believers" who felt that they were entitled to evidence that these poor victims really died. Like demanding death certificates from the parents. Good god, I hope all of them (and Jones AND that pos Norm Pattis) face a lifetime of misery and hell.
posted by sundrop at 1:33 PM on November 10, 2022 [18 favorites]
posted by sundrop at 1:33 PM on November 10, 2022 [18 favorites]
Does anyone feel like they understand, from his point of view, what the point was of all of this? Why did he do all of this in the first place? I know the surface answer is "to keep his audience entertained with fresh content to harvest their cash with" but is that the only reason?
Beyond the money, there was also the need to blunt Sandy Hook as a rally point for gun control. Jones is a deeply broken human being who has bought into the whole "the government is coming after people like me (that is, cis white males)" rhetoric.
posted by NoxAeternum at 1:46 PM on November 10, 2022 [34 favorites]
Beyond the money, there was also the need to blunt Sandy Hook as a rally point for gun control. Jones is a deeply broken human being who has bought into the whole "the government is coming after people like me (that is, cis white males)" rhetoric.
posted by NoxAeternum at 1:46 PM on November 10, 2022 [34 favorites]
Good.
How will these rulings actually look for Jones himself, once his legal options (appeals, stalling, general slipperiness) are inevitably exhausted? Will assets be forcefully seized or liquidated? His possessions packed up and driven away in a van? Will he lose his house and be forced to move into a roach-infested apartment on the outskirts of town? ... Can the public watch?
posted by The Lurkers Support Me in Email at 1:56 PM on November 10, 2022 [14 favorites]
How will these rulings actually look for Jones himself, once his legal options (appeals, stalling, general slipperiness) are inevitably exhausted? Will assets be forcefully seized or liquidated? His possessions packed up and driven away in a van? Will he lose his house and be forced to move into a roach-infested apartment on the outskirts of town? ... Can the public watch?
posted by The Lurkers Support Me in Email at 1:56 PM on November 10, 2022 [14 favorites]
Never did like Alex Jones. Never understood the addiction some people have to right wing bunk.
posted by Katjusa Roquette at 2:02 PM on November 10, 2022
posted by Katjusa Roquette at 2:02 PM on November 10, 2022
No, I've changed my mind. Alex Jones should be forced to create an all fact, all correct news service that he is forced to work at until he dies.
Or something. Some kind of symbolic punishment. I want him to have his own person media empire hill and rock of Sisyphus.
posted by hippybear at 2:11 PM on November 10, 2022 [8 favorites]
Or something. Some kind of symbolic punishment. I want him to have his own person media empire hill and rock of Sisyphus.
posted by hippybear at 2:11 PM on November 10, 2022 [8 favorites]
Does anyone feel like they understand, from his point of view, what the point was of all of this?
I can't claim to really understand Alex Jones, but here are my thoughts in a handy numbered list:
1. He is used to being able to say whatever is in his head and getting praised and paid for it.
2. He is surrounded by people who cannot give him meaningful feedback or control his bad behavior. In fact, they seem to egg him on.
3. His audience wants more, the more he gives them, so the pursuit of money and audience share continually drives his spiral into deluded thinking.
4. He is pretty much made of toxic masculinity and cannot admit error; there are points in his deposition where he incriminates himself because he cannot back down from a challenge. Also, once Sandy Hook had run its course for his news cycle, if he had just admitted error and apologized, at least plausibly if insincerely, he would probably have gotten away with it.
5. He does not believe anyone can put limits or boundaries on him, so, when he was in court, where there are many limits and boundaries, he just smashed into them again and again.
Pretty much, he is the worst America has to offer, with the exception that he does not seem inclined to get his hands dirty with actual violence.
My hope is that the verdict will bankrupt him and his companies, and he will cease to be a media figure, since he won't be able to host his own show and he's such a loose cannon, other right wing media don't really want him on their shows, at least not often.
posted by GenjiandProust at 2:42 PM on November 10, 2022 [42 favorites]
I can't claim to really understand Alex Jones, but here are my thoughts in a handy numbered list:
1. He is used to being able to say whatever is in his head and getting praised and paid for it.
2. He is surrounded by people who cannot give him meaningful feedback or control his bad behavior. In fact, they seem to egg him on.
3. His audience wants more, the more he gives them, so the pursuit of money and audience share continually drives his spiral into deluded thinking.
4. He is pretty much made of toxic masculinity and cannot admit error; there are points in his deposition where he incriminates himself because he cannot back down from a challenge. Also, once Sandy Hook had run its course for his news cycle, if he had just admitted error and apologized, at least plausibly if insincerely, he would probably have gotten away with it.
5. He does not believe anyone can put limits or boundaries on him, so, when he was in court, where there are many limits and boundaries, he just smashed into them again and again.
Pretty much, he is the worst America has to offer, with the exception that he does not seem inclined to get his hands dirty with actual violence.
My hope is that the verdict will bankrupt him and his companies, and he will cease to be a media figure, since he won't be able to host his own show and he's such a loose cannon, other right wing media don't really want him on their shows, at least not often.
posted by GenjiandProust at 2:42 PM on November 10, 2022 [42 favorites]
Alex Jones should be forced to create an all fact, all correct news service that he is forced to work at until he dies.
anonymously, for no money
posted by 5_13_23_42_69_666 at 3:15 PM on November 10, 2022 [14 favorites]
anonymously, for no money
posted by 5_13_23_42_69_666 at 3:15 PM on November 10, 2022 [14 favorites]
he does not seem inclined to get his hands dirty with actual violence
That seems a larger phenomenon than Alex Jones, even though he's one of the worst of the bunch. Republicans as a whole make up a larger stochastic terrorist movement: Right-wingers foment gun massacres by way of their policy and advocacy choices, and then they wipe their hands of the resulting blood, when they aren't outright denying the victims' families grief or accusing them of profiteering or "crisis acting". See Marjorie Taylor Greene going after Parkland school massacre survivors, for instance.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 3:19 PM on November 10, 2022 [20 favorites]
That seems a larger phenomenon than Alex Jones, even though he's one of the worst of the bunch. Republicans as a whole make up a larger stochastic terrorist movement: Right-wingers foment gun massacres by way of their policy and advocacy choices, and then they wipe their hands of the resulting blood, when they aren't outright denying the victims' families grief or accusing them of profiteering or "crisis acting". See Marjorie Taylor Greene going after Parkland school massacre survivors, for instance.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 3:19 PM on November 10, 2022 [20 favorites]
I cannot think of a single week that has been more packed with righteous schadenfreude in recent memory.
posted by Tom Hanks Cannot Be Trusted at 3:37 PM on November 10, 2022 [24 favorites]
posted by Tom Hanks Cannot Be Trusted at 3:37 PM on November 10, 2022 [24 favorites]
Does anyone feel like they understand, from his point of view, what the point was of all of this?
I used to hang out on a mailing list made up mostly of a social circle of alums of a couple of regionally-known private universities. There was a running gag about who was the funniest guy on the list. The list has long since disintegrated but before it did, it was widely acknowledged that A was the funniest guy on the list (A is really funny and also a standup guy. A, if you ever read this, I love you, man). L was another friend of ours who wanted REALLY BADLY to be the funniest guy in the list. He started hanging out on conservative warblogs back in the day and they told him he was the funniest guy. It filled some need in him and he ate it up and became a hardcore right wing guy, with all the loud screaming toxic stuff, inability to admit wrong/double down on gross stuff, etc. I dropped L from my online life years ago but I absolutely assume he's a MAGA choad these days.
I've always assumed Alex Jones, like L, has some yawning inner need that he's filling with his behavior. Beyond that, I think GenjiandProust has it.
posted by gentlyepigrams at 3:49 PM on November 10, 2022 [18 favorites]
I used to hang out on a mailing list made up mostly of a social circle of alums of a couple of regionally-known private universities. There was a running gag about who was the funniest guy on the list. The list has long since disintegrated but before it did, it was widely acknowledged that A was the funniest guy on the list (A is really funny and also a standup guy. A, if you ever read this, I love you, man). L was another friend of ours who wanted REALLY BADLY to be the funniest guy in the list. He started hanging out on conservative warblogs back in the day and they told him he was the funniest guy. It filled some need in him and he ate it up and became a hardcore right wing guy, with all the loud screaming toxic stuff, inability to admit wrong/double down on gross stuff, etc. I dropped L from my online life years ago but I absolutely assume he's a MAGA choad these days.
I've always assumed Alex Jones, like L, has some yawning inner need that he's filling with his behavior. Beyond that, I think GenjiandProust has it.
posted by gentlyepigrams at 3:49 PM on November 10, 2022 [18 favorites]
Does anyone feel like they understand, from his point of view, what the point was of all of this? Why did he do all of this in the first place?
I think there was a bit of strategy involved.
As NoxAeternum mentioned above, because Sandy Hook was such an unquestionable tragedy, he wanted to undermine it as a rallying point for gun control.
It's a very Republican kind of flex, where the strategy is you attack your opponent's strength. In this case, he wanted to show off in a way, trying to demonstrate that he could invert public opinion over something so devastating and unassailable.
Such a selfish, contemptible way of navigating the world.
Also seconding and thirding the related point that he's a delusional, narcissistic sociopath.
posted by ishmael at 3:55 PM on November 10, 2022 [14 favorites]
I think there was a bit of strategy involved.
As NoxAeternum mentioned above, because Sandy Hook was such an unquestionable tragedy, he wanted to undermine it as a rallying point for gun control.
It's a very Republican kind of flex, where the strategy is you attack your opponent's strength. In this case, he wanted to show off in a way, trying to demonstrate that he could invert public opinion over something so devastating and unassailable.
Such a selfish, contemptible way of navigating the world.
Also seconding and thirding the related point that he's a delusional, narcissistic sociopath.
posted by ishmael at 3:55 PM on November 10, 2022 [14 favorites]
I cannot think of a single week that has been more packed with righteous schadenfreude in recent memory.
I've almost posted the same comment half a dozen times today and I didn't know which thread to post it in.
Is it possible to overdose on schadenfreude? It's like an endless schadenfreude buffet out there right now. There's just so many choices.
posted by loquacious at 3:59 PM on November 10, 2022 [11 favorites]
I've almost posted the same comment half a dozen times today and I didn't know which thread to post it in.
Is it possible to overdose on schadenfreude? It's like an endless schadenfreude buffet out there right now. There's just so many choices.
posted by loquacious at 3:59 PM on November 10, 2022 [11 favorites]
with the exception that he does not seem inclined to get his hands dirty with actual violence.
In 2017 he was harassing people in downtown Seattle and got a face full of hot coffee.
Very strong chickenhawk energy from that encounter, talking shit and weeping over the consequences.
posted by Sauce Trough at 4:17 PM on November 10, 2022 [11 favorites]
In 2017 he was harassing people in downtown Seattle and got a face full of hot coffee.
Very strong chickenhawk energy from that encounter, talking shit and weeping over the consequences.
posted by Sauce Trough at 4:17 PM on November 10, 2022 [11 favorites]
That coffee thrower is an acquaintance and a hero.
posted by kittensofthenight at 4:24 PM on November 10, 2022 [66 favorites]
posted by kittensofthenight at 4:24 PM on November 10, 2022 [66 favorites]
I think GenjiandProust and gentlypigrams largely have it; I don't buy the politicial angle to Sandy Hook, because I think it's easy enough to imagine how someone who invents elaborate justifications for why their first emotional reaction to everything is in fact true would have to do the same for Sandy Hook. Otherwise, you'd have to admit that you were wrong about gun control, and Alex Jones is incapable of admitting he was wrong.
posted by Merus at 4:36 PM on November 10, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by Merus at 4:36 PM on November 10, 2022 [2 favorites]
→
I wonder, and thinking of gentlyepigrams' wannabee funniest-guy-on-the-list anecdote: was Jones a smartass as a kid? Did anyone ever tell him "no"? Or was he a dull child, always envious of those who got attention?
I look forward to next hearing of him as a very tiny footnote obituary some time in the future. May his memory be as of an impacted stool.
posted by scruss at 4:37 PM on November 10, 2022 [4 favorites]
He is used to being able to say whatever is in his head and getting praised ...
I wonder, and thinking of gentlyepigrams' wannabee funniest-guy-on-the-list anecdote: was Jones a smartass as a kid? Did anyone ever tell him "no"? Or was he a dull child, always envious of those who got attention?
I look forward to next hearing of him as a very tiny footnote obituary some time in the future. May his memory be as of an impacted stool.
posted by scruss at 4:37 PM on November 10, 2022 [4 favorites]
I look forward to next hearing of him as a very tiny footnote obituary some time in the future.
Oh, I have a list. They're all men, they're all vile, they've all ruined the world in their own individual ways. It's not long, but each one, I will note with glee.
posted by hippybear at 4:44 PM on November 10, 2022 [7 favorites]
Oh, I have a list. They're all men, they're all vile, they've all ruined the world in their own individual ways. It's not long, but each one, I will note with glee.
posted by hippybear at 4:44 PM on November 10, 2022 [7 favorites]
May he suffer the consequences of his choices until his dying breath.
And then may the world deny his death and subject his family and followers with lies and “unrelenting harassment against them” compounding “the emotional agony of losing their loved one[s].”
posted by kbar1 at 4:56 PM on November 10, 2022 [2 favorites]
And then may the world deny his death and subject his family and followers with lies and “unrelenting harassment against them” compounding “the emotional agony of losing their loved one[s].”
posted by kbar1 at 4:56 PM on November 10, 2022 [2 favorites]
Alex Jones should be forced to create an all fact, all correct news service that he is forced to work at until he dies.
I'm a firm believer in restorative justice, but there's no possible restoration for or remediation of what he's done.
posted by mhoye at 5:14 PM on November 10, 2022 [15 favorites]
I'm a firm believer in restorative justice, but there's no possible restoration for or remediation of what he's done.
posted by mhoye at 5:14 PM on November 10, 2022 [15 favorites]
I look forward to next hearing of him as a very tiny footnote obituary some time in the future.
It can be very traumatic losing a loved one, so Jones has thoughtfully decided to live his life in such a way that he will die totally unloved and be missed by no one. How considerate of him!
posted by ricochet biscuit at 5:15 PM on November 10, 2022 [7 favorites]
It can be very traumatic losing a loved one, so Jones has thoughtfully decided to live his life in such a way that he will die totally unloved and be missed by no one. How considerate of him!
posted by ricochet biscuit at 5:15 PM on November 10, 2022 [7 favorites]
I’m heartened not just by this judgment but by how fast toxic media personalities can be erased: anyone thought of Rush Limbaugh since he died and thus shut the fuck up? Alex Jones is like that, we will all be relieved when he dies and then immediately collectively forget him. What a waste of a life.
posted by LooseFilter at 6:13 PM on November 10, 2022 [10 favorites]
posted by LooseFilter at 6:13 PM on November 10, 2022 [10 favorites]
In 2017 he was harassing people in downtown Seattle and got a face full of hot coffee.
I saw him one morning while on my.way to work.back then -- just after getting off the light rail at the Rainier Valley.Station. He must have known someone in the neighborhood. Of all the so-called celebrities I get to meet in a real life crosswalk it was that squamous nacreous loathsome toad.
posted by y2karl at 6:20 PM on November 10, 2022 [7 favorites]
I saw him one morning while on my.way to work.back then -- just after getting off the light rail at the Rainier Valley.Station. He must have known someone in the neighborhood. Of all the so-called celebrities I get to meet in a real life crosswalk it was that squamous nacreous loathsome toad.
posted by y2karl at 6:20 PM on November 10, 2022 [7 favorites]
squamous nacreous loathsome toad
That's a beautiful set of adjectives modifying a finely chosen noun, y2karl. Although, without the modifiers, the noun deserves none of the association.
posted by mollweide at 6:30 PM on November 10, 2022 [6 favorites]
That's a beautiful set of adjectives modifying a finely chosen noun, y2karl. Although, without the modifiers, the noun deserves none of the association.
posted by mollweide at 6:30 PM on November 10, 2022 [6 favorites]
Otherwise, you'd have to admit that you were wrong about gun control, and Alex Jones is incapable of admitting he was wrong.
I think it's worse than that. I think he knows that it's wrong, he just wants to flex and wanted to display that he can say whatever he wants. That it doesn't matter what he says, he'll always win the argument.
But, as he found out, it very much does matter what he says.
And he will have to pay.
posted by ishmael at 6:39 PM on November 10, 2022 [5 favorites]
I think it's worse than that. I think he knows that it's wrong, he just wants to flex and wanted to display that he can say whatever he wants. That it doesn't matter what he says, he'll always win the argument.
But, as he found out, it very much does matter what he says.
And he will have to pay.
posted by ishmael at 6:39 PM on November 10, 2022 [5 favorites]
The year of Justice has been good for my soul
posted by Bottlecap at 6:57 PM on November 10, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by Bottlecap at 6:57 PM on November 10, 2022 [1 favorite]
It's a shame that capitalist punishment via fines is all this man is going to suffer.
Why is that the case?
posted by Zumbador at 7:14 PM on November 10, 2022
Why is that the case?
posted by Zumbador at 7:14 PM on November 10, 2022
May he suffer the consequences of his choices until his dying breath.
Why stop there? I mean, isn't that what hell is for?
posted by Toddles at 7:42 PM on November 10, 2022
Why stop there? I mean, isn't that what hell is for?
posted by Toddles at 7:42 PM on November 10, 2022
Good.
May he be chased everywhere he tries to hide till he has paid every penny.
As for the reason, I have known a couple or three people like that, who lied always, all the time, even when there was no apparent benefit or reason. And they did the emotional drama thing, too. My sense is that in their twisted minds, both the lying and the tearing up gave them a satisfactory sense of power. They could dictate a reality and make people act accordingly. If Jones is like those people I knew, his audience has two sub-groups: suckers he could manipulate at will and allies who were in on the "joke" and the grift. Another thing the guys I knew believe is that "everybody" does this. If you don't do it then you are a sucker. So Jones probably might well believe that the other side (normal humans with compassion and knowledge) are also lying about something, though he is clearly aware that Sandy Hook was real.
See also Donald Trump.
posted by mumimor at 12:57 AM on November 11, 2022 [9 favorites]
May he be chased everywhere he tries to hide till he has paid every penny.
As for the reason, I have known a couple or three people like that, who lied always, all the time, even when there was no apparent benefit or reason. And they did the emotional drama thing, too. My sense is that in their twisted minds, both the lying and the tearing up gave them a satisfactory sense of power. They could dictate a reality and make people act accordingly. If Jones is like those people I knew, his audience has two sub-groups: suckers he could manipulate at will and allies who were in on the "joke" and the grift. Another thing the guys I knew believe is that "everybody" does this. If you don't do it then you are a sucker. So Jones probably might well believe that the other side (normal humans with compassion and knowledge) are also lying about something, though he is clearly aware that Sandy Hook was real.
See also Donald Trump.
posted by mumimor at 12:57 AM on November 11, 2022 [9 favorites]
Does anyone feel like they understand, from his point of view, what the point was of all of this?
Not long after the news broke I stumbled on a Twitter thread pointing out that Jones has been peddling batshit right wing conspiracy theories since forever. So, basically, it's his brand. Whether he believes it or not, and whatever his psychological issues might be, if you've built a media empire on "liberals are globalist lizard aliens who drink the blood of children" you pretty much can't respond to Sandy Hook with something "reasonable" like "lock the doors" or "hire more armed security guards" - you've got to go all in on the batshit, or your audience finds someone else who will.
posted by soundguy99 at 4:58 AM on November 11, 2022 [3 favorites]
Not long after the news broke I stumbled on a Twitter thread pointing out that Jones has been peddling batshit right wing conspiracy theories since forever. So, basically, it's his brand. Whether he believes it or not, and whatever his psychological issues might be, if you've built a media empire on "liberals are globalist lizard aliens who drink the blood of children" you pretty much can't respond to Sandy Hook with something "reasonable" like "lock the doors" or "hire more armed security guards" - you've got to go all in on the batshit, or your audience finds someone else who will.
posted by soundguy99 at 4:58 AM on November 11, 2022 [3 favorites]
Tom Hanks Cannot be Trusted and Loquacious, might be a week for some schadenfreude pie!
posted by knile at 6:43 AM on November 11, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by knile at 6:43 AM on November 11, 2022 [2 favorites]
Does anyone feel like they understand, from his point of view, what the point was of all of this? Why did he do all of this in the first place?
Trying to reason about the motivations of sociopathic nihilists is like trying to visualize objects in five dimensions.
I don't always buy this as the answer, but it fits here:
The cruelty IS the point.
I have another theory that I believe fits the facts: Sandy Hook was such a revolting tragedy that the obvious, immediate response is to call for gun control, and so it was imperative that the atrocity itself be labeled a lie, to change the subject if nothing else. That need was strong among pro-gun people, so Jones made money feeding it.
Every time a conservative uses the phrase "false flag" or "crisis actor" or the like, never forget that they are admitting whatever happened looks bad for their side.
posted by Gelatin at 7:25 AM on November 11, 2022 [15 favorites]
Trying to reason about the motivations of sociopathic nihilists is like trying to visualize objects in five dimensions.
I don't always buy this as the answer, but it fits here:
The cruelty IS the point.
I have another theory that I believe fits the facts: Sandy Hook was such a revolting tragedy that the obvious, immediate response is to call for gun control, and so it was imperative that the atrocity itself be labeled a lie, to change the subject if nothing else. That need was strong among pro-gun people, so Jones made money feeding it.
Every time a conservative uses the phrase "false flag" or "crisis actor" or the like, never forget that they are admitting whatever happened looks bad for their side.
posted by Gelatin at 7:25 AM on November 11, 2022 [15 favorites]
Something that I've been mulling over, ever since reading Corey Robin's fantastic book The Reactionary Mind, is that reactionary political philosophies are literally founded in... well... reaction.
It's a kind of revisionism: act first, then justify the actions. The logic comes second. And it's not that there's no logic to it, but the philosophy in question isn't some attempt to envision a higher-order world or interrogate the possibilities of reality: it's a re-articulation of what already exists, or what did exist, and it inevitably is an attempt by people with power to justify the fact of their own power.
I think it's mistaken to look for a specific Machiavellian political strategy in what Jones said about Sandy Hook. Jones was already going on about how (a) the government lies to you, (b) guns = freedom, and (c) the government will lie to you to take away your freedom guns. Suddenly, a gun-related atrocity happened, and a bunch of sane people asked whether the government should regular guns more... so Jones leapt to the "logical" conclusion of, the government lied about Sandy Hook in order to take away more guns. In other words, he didn't really "invent" a conspiracy—he just extended what he was already saying to map onto whatever situation arose.
You can't interrogate that kind of "belief" system using appeals to empathy, or the scientific method, or political debate. The point of these beliefs is to deny reality. Because if you suddenly spend all your time trying to figure out the way the world works, and trying to adjust your thought processes and behavior to better suit reality, isn't that basically like slavery? The only way to be "free" is to not have to think about things like "facts" or "feelings" or "people" or "things that actually happen," and to have the power to pick whatever narrative suits you and insist that it's the only one that matters.
I don't think the goal is particularly sadism or cruelty, and it's not particularly oppression, but it also more-or-less demands all three. To not be sadistic, you'd have to acknowledge that people are suffering, which would require you to attribute a realness to them that runs counter to reactionary ethos. To avoid oppression, you'd have to recognize that freedom is a net sum rather than an individual "choice" that any person could make if they really wanted to be free. Similarly, nihilism isn't the "goal" per se, because to acknowledge that this worldview is nihilistic would require you to acknowledge an alternative way of thinking—and to do that would take a level of awareness that this political philosophy is inherently geared, not even to deny, but to avoid altogether.
One of the most fascinating things about The Reactionary Mind is that Robin notes how reactionaries are typically fascinated by leftist revolutionaries. But they fixate on the style, the rhetoric, the energy that leftists have, and despise the old-guard conservatives for being bloodless, so entrenched in their power that they flat-out don't need to pay attention to the changing world. The interesting part is that they adopt the vocabulary and terminology and even the systems thinking of the new revolutionary system... but employ it all to rearticulate all the shit they already believed, about the rightness of power and the importance of elitism and the purity of whatever their given group happens to be. And they replace the excitement of change with an excitement of violence, because violence is ultimately a way to assert yourself over anyone who might disagree with you, using whatever force seems necessary. The "change" they want is more-or-less a bigger boot to stamp on your throat with. And the contradiction of calling that "change" eludes them, because, again, the whole point of the reactionary mindset is that you don't want to consider the intent behind any possible alternatives.
I read that and was like, oh, Donald Trump and Alex Jones suddenly make a whole lot of sense. But Jones is arguably an even more distilled version of this than Trump is. Masterful performer, in his own way—but the performance, the "invention" of his conspiracy theories, is just the shameless ability to reach any possible conclusion that justifies never having to consider new information in the slightest.
posted by Tom Hanks Cannot Be Trusted at 7:59 AM on November 11, 2022 [22 favorites]
It's a kind of revisionism: act first, then justify the actions. The logic comes second. And it's not that there's no logic to it, but the philosophy in question isn't some attempt to envision a higher-order world or interrogate the possibilities of reality: it's a re-articulation of what already exists, or what did exist, and it inevitably is an attempt by people with power to justify the fact of their own power.
I think it's mistaken to look for a specific Machiavellian political strategy in what Jones said about Sandy Hook. Jones was already going on about how (a) the government lies to you, (b) guns = freedom, and (c) the government will lie to you to take away your freedom guns. Suddenly, a gun-related atrocity happened, and a bunch of sane people asked whether the government should regular guns more... so Jones leapt to the "logical" conclusion of, the government lied about Sandy Hook in order to take away more guns. In other words, he didn't really "invent" a conspiracy—he just extended what he was already saying to map onto whatever situation arose.
You can't interrogate that kind of "belief" system using appeals to empathy, or the scientific method, or political debate. The point of these beliefs is to deny reality. Because if you suddenly spend all your time trying to figure out the way the world works, and trying to adjust your thought processes and behavior to better suit reality, isn't that basically like slavery? The only way to be "free" is to not have to think about things like "facts" or "feelings" or "people" or "things that actually happen," and to have the power to pick whatever narrative suits you and insist that it's the only one that matters.
I don't think the goal is particularly sadism or cruelty, and it's not particularly oppression, but it also more-or-less demands all three. To not be sadistic, you'd have to acknowledge that people are suffering, which would require you to attribute a realness to them that runs counter to reactionary ethos. To avoid oppression, you'd have to recognize that freedom is a net sum rather than an individual "choice" that any person could make if they really wanted to be free. Similarly, nihilism isn't the "goal" per se, because to acknowledge that this worldview is nihilistic would require you to acknowledge an alternative way of thinking—and to do that would take a level of awareness that this political philosophy is inherently geared, not even to deny, but to avoid altogether.
One of the most fascinating things about The Reactionary Mind is that Robin notes how reactionaries are typically fascinated by leftist revolutionaries. But they fixate on the style, the rhetoric, the energy that leftists have, and despise the old-guard conservatives for being bloodless, so entrenched in their power that they flat-out don't need to pay attention to the changing world. The interesting part is that they adopt the vocabulary and terminology and even the systems thinking of the new revolutionary system... but employ it all to rearticulate all the shit they already believed, about the rightness of power and the importance of elitism and the purity of whatever their given group happens to be. And they replace the excitement of change with an excitement of violence, because violence is ultimately a way to assert yourself over anyone who might disagree with you, using whatever force seems necessary. The "change" they want is more-or-less a bigger boot to stamp on your throat with. And the contradiction of calling that "change" eludes them, because, again, the whole point of the reactionary mindset is that you don't want to consider the intent behind any possible alternatives.
I read that and was like, oh, Donald Trump and Alex Jones suddenly make a whole lot of sense. But Jones is arguably an even more distilled version of this than Trump is. Masterful performer, in his own way—but the performance, the "invention" of his conspiracy theories, is just the shameless ability to reach any possible conclusion that justifies never having to consider new information in the slightest.
posted by Tom Hanks Cannot Be Trusted at 7:59 AM on November 11, 2022 [22 favorites]
@Tom Hanks Cannot Be Trusted: I agree wholeheartedly, and thanks (half-sarcastically, half-sincerely) for another nonfiction book to add to the pile.
The suspicion I have (which amounts to a psychological just-so story, so take it for no more than that) is that self-righteous outrage is just memetic meth for humans. Under its influence, humans feel alert, focused and driven to a euphoric degree, and as much as the outrage represents stress, it paradoxically also feels great to have a “mission.” This may be why reactionaries are fixated on revolutionaries: they have mission-envy. Even when the outrage is manufactured, the mission is misguided and the actions taken in support of it are just plain stupid and wrong, and moreover even when they know all those things, people will still keep chasing that high, from whence comes the nihilism. Pretending to fervently believe obvious bullshit is the psychological analogue of selling your cousin’s PlayStation to buy more meth. All of the evils, all of the cruelty, spring from that seed. To an outrage addict, seeing someone they’ve cast as an antagonist suffer feels like progress toward their ill-conceived goals.
On the other hand, acting as a dealer for outrage addicts is a cheap and easy way to deliver numbers in a media climate obsessed with “engagement.” An outraged human is nothing if not engaged, and an advertising audience prone to making irrational, reactionary decisions can be nose-ringed into those being purchasing decisions, which is better still. A media apparatus that selects for engagement will inadvertently also select for outrage for the same reason the tobacco industry selected, intentionally or not (but probably intentionally), for higher-nicotine products.
Jones, in my estimation, is a hybrid of both of those. He is a dealer in outrage and exploiter of addicts who is high on his own supply, plus a deeply personality-disordered individual whose own bottomless craving for attention is fed by his customer base. There is no logic to his conduct in the sense of his behavior being part of a coherent strategy to benefit himself. The benefit comes when he is not held to account, as he has not been for the vast majority of his career. His behavior is adapted for that scenario, but maladaptive for the scenario in which lies have consequences and liars are held responsible for those consequences, which is terra incognita for him. An environment in which truth is relevant is one in which Jones will go extinct. That parable about the scorpion riding a frog’s back across a river could have been written about Jones. Yes, they’ll both drown, but that’s no reason to expect Alex Jones can simply stop being Alex Jones on demand when being Alex Jones becomes self-defeating.
Another phenomenon I think comes into play is that modern “infotainment” figures blur the line between fiction and reality in destructive ways. In fiction there are always characters audiences love who would nevertheless be impossible to live with in real life. Dr. House is an obvious example. Hugh Laurie is witty and charismatic, which comes through even when he’s playing a total bastard, but is not an endorsement for the character’s fans to act like total bastards themselves. Drama that is appealing on the screen or the page is often intolerable in real life, and it takes some people a long time to realize that. Media personalities like Jones are building a similar sort of character for their audiences, but they also have direct impact on the real world in ways that usually do not directly impact the majority of the audience, so it’s still all part of the show to them. Thus they can enjoy the outrage-porn and Jones’ performance, cheering and booing as the script dictates, while remaining detached from the reality that would make five minutes in the actual company of Jones’ on-air persona insufferable, or raise serious ethical concerns about participating in the rhetorical atrocities he commits against innocent people.
posted by gelfin at 11:15 AM on November 11, 2022 [15 favorites]
The suspicion I have (which amounts to a psychological just-so story, so take it for no more than that) is that self-righteous outrage is just memetic meth for humans. Under its influence, humans feel alert, focused and driven to a euphoric degree, and as much as the outrage represents stress, it paradoxically also feels great to have a “mission.” This may be why reactionaries are fixated on revolutionaries: they have mission-envy. Even when the outrage is manufactured, the mission is misguided and the actions taken in support of it are just plain stupid and wrong, and moreover even when they know all those things, people will still keep chasing that high, from whence comes the nihilism. Pretending to fervently believe obvious bullshit is the psychological analogue of selling your cousin’s PlayStation to buy more meth. All of the evils, all of the cruelty, spring from that seed. To an outrage addict, seeing someone they’ve cast as an antagonist suffer feels like progress toward their ill-conceived goals.
On the other hand, acting as a dealer for outrage addicts is a cheap and easy way to deliver numbers in a media climate obsessed with “engagement.” An outraged human is nothing if not engaged, and an advertising audience prone to making irrational, reactionary decisions can be nose-ringed into those being purchasing decisions, which is better still. A media apparatus that selects for engagement will inadvertently also select for outrage for the same reason the tobacco industry selected, intentionally or not (but probably intentionally), for higher-nicotine products.
Jones, in my estimation, is a hybrid of both of those. He is a dealer in outrage and exploiter of addicts who is high on his own supply, plus a deeply personality-disordered individual whose own bottomless craving for attention is fed by his customer base. There is no logic to his conduct in the sense of his behavior being part of a coherent strategy to benefit himself. The benefit comes when he is not held to account, as he has not been for the vast majority of his career. His behavior is adapted for that scenario, but maladaptive for the scenario in which lies have consequences and liars are held responsible for those consequences, which is terra incognita for him. An environment in which truth is relevant is one in which Jones will go extinct. That parable about the scorpion riding a frog’s back across a river could have been written about Jones. Yes, they’ll both drown, but that’s no reason to expect Alex Jones can simply stop being Alex Jones on demand when being Alex Jones becomes self-defeating.
Another phenomenon I think comes into play is that modern “infotainment” figures blur the line between fiction and reality in destructive ways. In fiction there are always characters audiences love who would nevertheless be impossible to live with in real life. Dr. House is an obvious example. Hugh Laurie is witty and charismatic, which comes through even when he’s playing a total bastard, but is not an endorsement for the character’s fans to act like total bastards themselves. Drama that is appealing on the screen or the page is often intolerable in real life, and it takes some people a long time to realize that. Media personalities like Jones are building a similar sort of character for their audiences, but they also have direct impact on the real world in ways that usually do not directly impact the majority of the audience, so it’s still all part of the show to them. Thus they can enjoy the outrage-porn and Jones’ performance, cheering and booing as the script dictates, while remaining detached from the reality that would make five minutes in the actual company of Jones’ on-air persona insufferable, or raise serious ethical concerns about participating in the rhetorical atrocities he commits against innocent people.
posted by gelfin at 11:15 AM on November 11, 2022 [15 favorites]
This post needs a grim_satisfaction tag.
posted by of strange foe at 12:57 PM on November 11, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by of strange foe at 12:57 PM on November 11, 2022 [2 favorites]
CW WARNING: Dead Children
One of the most chilling moments is all the depositions was when Chris Mattei gave Jones a report from a Sandy Hook first responder to read, and
It was as chilling a lack of empathy as I’ve ever experienced. His only engagement was for what he thought he could use. His immense error was not realizing that anything Mattei gave him was to expose him as an unreliable witness and, as it turns out, monster.
posted by GenjiandProust at 1:40 PM on November 11, 2022 [16 favorites]
One of the most chilling moments is all the depositions was when Chris Mattei gave Jones a report from a Sandy Hook first responder to read, and
Jones hit a point where the man recounted finding a pile of corpses and not being able to make sense of it because he couldn’t immediately see blood, and Jones perks up and sounds happy as if this was proof. The report goes on to describe how the man had to dig through the pile looking desperately for survivors to find only blood and horror. Jones didn’t react to that.
It was as chilling a lack of empathy as I’ve ever experienced. His only engagement was for what he thought he could use. His immense error was not realizing that anything Mattei gave him was to expose him as an unreliable witness and, as it turns out, monster.
posted by GenjiandProust at 1:40 PM on November 11, 2022 [16 favorites]
His behavior is adapted for that scenario, but maladaptive for the scenario in which lies have consequences and liars are held responsible for those consequences, which is terra incognita for him.
This is a great way of putting this particular facet of his whole...thing.
Having listened to the various Knowledge Fight episodes that have broken down his deposition appearances (including the one GenjiandProust mentions above, which is indeed chilling), there are repeated instances where literally anyone else would have stuck with answers like "yes," "no," or "I don't recall." Instead, he weaves elaborate responses full of statements directly contradicting ones he'd made earlier -- in some cases, just minutes prior -- while simultaneously trying to weave yet another bullshit conspiracy narrative as new facts emerge.
I've followed far-right movements for many years, and even a piece of shit like Bo Gritz slowed his broadcasting roll a bit after the bombing of the Murrah federal building in Oklahoma City. Jones has no such built-in governor.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 1:52 PM on November 11, 2022 [4 favorites]
This is a great way of putting this particular facet of his whole...thing.
Having listened to the various Knowledge Fight episodes that have broken down his deposition appearances (including the one GenjiandProust mentions above, which is indeed chilling), there are repeated instances where literally anyone else would have stuck with answers like "yes," "no," or "I don't recall." Instead, he weaves elaborate responses full of statements directly contradicting ones he'd made earlier -- in some cases, just minutes prior -- while simultaneously trying to weave yet another bullshit conspiracy narrative as new facts emerge.
I've followed far-right movements for many years, and even a piece of shit like Bo Gritz slowed his broadcasting roll a bit after the bombing of the Murrah federal building in Oklahoma City. Jones has no such built-in governor.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 1:52 PM on November 11, 2022 [4 favorites]
I’m not sure becoming a (the?) leading authority on Alex Jones is good for one’s soul, but Dan Friesen sure is a joy to listen to. I can’t recommend Knowledge Fight highly enough, though you might find yourself laugh-shouting “oh fucking come on!” out loud a lot when they’re playing clips of Alex.
posted by hototogisu at 2:58 PM on November 11, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by hototogisu at 2:58 PM on November 11, 2022 [2 favorites]
though you might find yourself laugh-shouting “oh fucking come on!”
Jordan Holmes does a lot of this for the listener. Truly a full-service offering.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 3:40 PM on November 11, 2022 [2 favorites]
Jordan Holmes does a lot of this for the listener. Truly a full-service offering.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 3:40 PM on November 11, 2022 [2 favorites]
I have to say that Knowledge Fight is a show that I should hate, but there is something about Dan's calmness and Jordan's outrage that makes the whole show informative rather than soul-destroying.
Their indexing of episodes is pretty maddening, but I went through looking for titles that mentioned the trial, then the "Formulaic Objections" sub-series, gets most of it. Behind the Bastard's recent episodes on Jones is also very useful listening, if you want to inform yourself about this landmark case (which isn't done yet) and the sorry excuse for a human being at its center.
posted by GenjiandProust at 4:51 PM on November 11, 2022
Their indexing of episodes is pretty maddening, but I went through looking for titles that mentioned the trial, then the "Formulaic Objections" sub-series, gets most of it. Behind the Bastard's recent episodes on Jones is also very useful listening, if you want to inform yourself about this landmark case (which isn't done yet) and the sorry excuse for a human being at its center.
posted by GenjiandProust at 4:51 PM on November 11, 2022
It's like an endless schadenfreude buffet out there right now. There's just so many choices.
OT but besides this and Musk, what did I miss?
posted by pelvicsorcery at 6:09 PM on November 11, 2022 [1 favorite]
OT but besides this and Musk, what did I miss?
posted by pelvicsorcery at 6:09 PM on November 11, 2022 [1 favorite]
GenjiandProust >
1. He is used to being able to say whatever is in his head and getting praised and paid for it.
2. He is surrounded by people who cannot give him meaningful feedback or control his bad behavior. In fact, they seem to egg him on.
3. His audience wants more, the more he gives them, so the pursuit of money and audience share continually drives his spiral into deluded thinking.
4. He is pretty much made of toxic masculinity and cannot admit error; there are points in his deposition where he incriminates himself because he cannot back down from a challenge. Also, once Sandy Hook had run its course for his news cycle, if he had just admitted error and apologized, at least plausibly if insincerely, he would probably have gotten away with it.
5. He does not believe anyone can put limits or boundaries on him, so, when he was in court, where there are many limits and boundaries, he just smashed into them again and again.
You know who else meets (and beats) this resume? That’s right, TOtherFG.
Details about Jones’ likely net worth in Alex Jones Likely Doesn’t Have $1 Billion. He Does Own Five Homes In Texas, Though., Forbes, Jemima McEvoy, Oct 13 2022.
posted by cenoxo at 10:08 PM on November 11, 2022 [1 favorite]
1. He is used to being able to say whatever is in his head and getting praised and paid for it.
2. He is surrounded by people who cannot give him meaningful feedback or control his bad behavior. In fact, they seem to egg him on.
3. His audience wants more, the more he gives them, so the pursuit of money and audience share continually drives his spiral into deluded thinking.
4. He is pretty much made of toxic masculinity and cannot admit error; there are points in his deposition where he incriminates himself because he cannot back down from a challenge. Also, once Sandy Hook had run its course for his news cycle, if he had just admitted error and apologized, at least plausibly if insincerely, he would probably have gotten away with it.
5. He does not believe anyone can put limits or boundaries on him, so, when he was in court, where there are many limits and boundaries, he just smashed into them again and again.
You know who else meets (and beats) this resume? That’s right, TOtherFG.
Details about Jones’ likely net worth in Alex Jones Likely Doesn’t Have $1 Billion. He Does Own Five Homes In Texas, Though., Forbes, Jemima McEvoy, Oct 13 2022.
posted by cenoxo at 10:08 PM on November 11, 2022 [1 favorite]
OT but besides this and Musk, what did I miss?
- Meta took a huge hit and Zuckerberg looks like a tool
- The Republicans couldn't sweep the midterms and might not even get control of the House
- and this is being blamed specifically on Trump, who appears to have decided to attack Ron DeSantis
- the big crypto crash is happening: the second-biggest exchange disintegrated overnight, bitcoin is dropping, and every exchange looks like it's primed to disintegrate
- Ukraine took Kherson back, the only major city Putin was able to take
…what did I miss?
- Trump sues Jan. 6 committee to fight subpoena (Axios, 11/11/2022)
- Longtime Trump Executive Details Rampant Tax Fraud at NYC Trial (CPA Practice Advisor, 11/11/2022)
- How Every Known Jan. 6 Participant Fared in U.S., State Midterm Elections (Newsweek, 11/11/2022)
- Oath Keepers founder Stewart Rhodes rests case in Jan. 6 seditious conspiracy trial (Daily Kos, 11/9/2022)
- Voyager Mission Status (JPL, 11/12/2022)
Oh, I have a list.
And they'd none of them be missed, no they'd none of them be missed!
posted by MrBadExample at 10:22 AM on November 12, 2022
And they'd none of them be missed, no they'd none of them be missed!
posted by MrBadExample at 10:22 AM on November 12, 2022
OT but besides this and Musk, what did I miss?
The lack of a red wave and voters largely rejecting Trumpist candidates, FTX, Binance and crypto nonsense, Russia being pushed out of Kherson, more legal troubles closing in on Trump, Musk getting trolled to bits over and over again, the elections in Brazil, Fetterman trouncing Oz. And there are some other smaller morsels from local politics in various places in the US and some other things I'm forgetting because there's just been so much of it.
posted by loquacious at 11:11 AM on November 12, 2022 [2 favorites]
The lack of a red wave and voters largely rejecting Trumpist candidates, FTX, Binance and crypto nonsense, Russia being pushed out of Kherson, more legal troubles closing in on Trump, Musk getting trolled to bits over and over again, the elections in Brazil, Fetterman trouncing Oz. And there are some other smaller morsels from local politics in various places in the US and some other things I'm forgetting because there's just been so much of it.
posted by loquacious at 11:11 AM on November 12, 2022 [2 favorites]
Just hearing a bunch of his past footlickers (Fox news, various pols) caterwauling in unison that Trump is a Losing Loser Who Loses has made me happier than anything in a long time, I'm ashamed to say.
posted by taz at 11:24 AM on November 13, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by taz at 11:24 AM on November 13, 2022 [2 favorites]
(Other than this Alex Jones news. But I just really want to see him ruined, and not somehow pulling in further millions off this.)
posted by taz at 11:26 AM on November 13, 2022
posted by taz at 11:26 AM on November 13, 2022
Every time a conservative uses the phrase "false flag" or "crisis actor" or the like, never forget that they are admitting whatever happened looks bad for their side.
posted by Gelatin at 7:25 AM on November 11 [15 favorites +] [!]
I think this and the lines you quoted are actually part of the same conundrum. Yes, there is an underlying rationale and motivation, and we can reason about those, but the question is, how are there people in existence willing to do this work? To shape their career, their brand and ultimately their identity around it? We can explain it away as a hunger for fame, money, etc. but I don't think most of us can relate to it on a fundamental, emotional level. I hope not, anyway.
We know that otherwise "good" people can be compelled to operate gas chambers or shoot civilians*, but to see those things as opportunities and freely choose them?
* Yes, I am drawing a moral equivalence here.
posted by klanawa at 1:45 PM on November 13, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by Gelatin at 7:25 AM on November 11 [15 favorites +] [!]
I think this and the lines you quoted are actually part of the same conundrum. Yes, there is an underlying rationale and motivation, and we can reason about those, but the question is, how are there people in existence willing to do this work? To shape their career, their brand and ultimately their identity around it? We can explain it away as a hunger for fame, money, etc. but I don't think most of us can relate to it on a fundamental, emotional level. I hope not, anyway.
We know that otherwise "good" people can be compelled to operate gas chambers or shoot civilians*, but to see those things as opportunities and freely choose them?
* Yes, I am drawing a moral equivalence here.
posted by klanawa at 1:45 PM on November 13, 2022 [1 favorite]
So, remember the first trial in Texas, and the concern that the judgement would be cut down by the state's vicious caps?
The judge has ruled that Jones has to pay the full $45M:
The judge has ruled that Jones has to pay the full $45M:
NEW: Judge in Alex Jones damages trial in Texas will order him to pay the FULL $49 million verdict to the parents of Sandy Hook victim Jesse Lewis, challenging Texas's stingy punitive damages cap & calling the emotional distress Jones and Infowars inflicted uniquely "HORRIBLE."posted by NoxAeternum at 3:47 PM on November 22, 2022 [4 favorites]
In an Austin hearing today, Judge Maya Guerra Gamble challenged the constitutionality of TX law capping punitive damages at $750k per plaintiff. In August, the jury awarded Scarlett Lewis & Neil Heslin $45 million, which she's ordering him to pay.
In a powerful statement in court, "our courts are supposed to be about justice," the judge said, saying this case was a rare ex of intentional infliction of emotional distress so egregious it provided no other recourse to the parents defamed by Jones.
Neil Heslin & Scarlett Lewis's lawyer Mark Bankston vowed in Aug to challenge the Texas punitive damages cap in court. The judge's order will v likely be appealed by Alex Jones, whose lawyer predicted in August that the parents wld get $5 mln of the $49 mln award, max.
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posted by knile at 12:48 PM on November 10, 2022 [78 favorites]