The Qatar World Cup Explained
November 18, 2022 4:00 AM Subscribe
The Qatar World Cup Explained is a five part series by Tifo Football exploring the geopolitics around how Qatar has ended up hosting the World Cup.
Oops forgot to mention: written by James Montague who has a book on the subject, When Friday Comes: Football Revolution in the Middle East and the Road to Qatar.
posted by juv3nal at 4:27 AM on November 18, 2022
posted by juv3nal at 4:27 AM on November 18, 2022
"FIFA Uncovered" on Netflix pretty much lays bare the rampant corruption and bribery that lead to Qatar being selected for 2022.
posted by DJZouke at 4:54 AM on November 18, 2022 [5 favorites]
posted by DJZouke at 4:54 AM on November 18, 2022 [5 favorites]
Time to bring back the vuvuzela, they deserve it.
posted by adept256 at 5:02 AM on November 18, 2022 [23 favorites]
posted by adept256 at 5:02 AM on November 18, 2022 [23 favorites]
I apologize for not watching the link where this is probably mentioned but FIFA has something like 200 members and maybe 60-70 have a realistic chance of making the finals, with even less getting past the group round, so from a sporting perspective it doesn't really matter where the tournament is going to be as long as the federation, or officials running it, get some nice trips and fat stacks of cash out of it. So the small countries can vote for whoever offers the best incentives.
What's less defensible to me is countries like France bowing to political pressure and voting for Qatar. They're already a rich federation and this move will lead to more injuries to its own top players this year so is terrible from a sporting perspective as well.
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 5:05 AM on November 18, 2022
What's less defensible to me is countries like France bowing to political pressure and voting for Qatar. They're already a rich federation and this move will lead to more injuries to its own top players this year so is terrible from a sporting perspective as well.
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 5:05 AM on November 18, 2022
I know this is serious business, but every time I hear "world cup Qatar" I can't help thinking about this stand-up bit by Scottish comedian Danny Bhoy.
"Scotland, if you drink here in Qatar, you will get lashed."
"Aye, you're no wrong, mate."
posted by evilmomlady at 5:06 AM on November 18, 2022 [10 favorites]
"Scotland, if you drink here in Qatar, you will get lashed."
"Aye, you're no wrong, mate."
posted by evilmomlady at 5:06 AM on November 18, 2022 [10 favorites]
It boggles my mind that any country would agree to participate or broadcast this sham event. How corrupt or savage does a regime need to be before we say NO?
posted by night_train at 5:08 AM on November 18, 2022 [13 favorites]
posted by night_train at 5:08 AM on November 18, 2022 [13 favorites]
If, like me, you need help thinking through the manifold issues, I’d recommend an episode of Norwegian football podcast PL-kvarteret, where Lars Sivertsen discusses all of it in English with Philippe Auclair, who’s been on the Qatar World Cup beat, and very critical of it, since 2010. Here’s the episode on SoundCloud, and here on Apple Podcasts.
posted by Kattullus at 5:24 AM on November 18, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by Kattullus at 5:24 AM on November 18, 2022 [3 favorites]
The more you know, the worse it gets. FIFA needs to be torn down and rebuilt but that will never happen.
posted by tommasz at 6:26 AM on November 18, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by tommasz at 6:26 AM on November 18, 2022 [1 favorite]
It boggles my mind that any country would agree to participate or broadcast this sham event. How corrupt or savage does a regime need to be before we say NO?
I think that question was answered in Berlin in 1936.
posted by briank at 6:27 AM on November 18, 2022 [26 favorites]
I think that question was answered in Berlin in 1936.
posted by briank at 6:27 AM on November 18, 2022 [26 favorites]
When FIFA gave Qatar the World Cup, they crossed that line from everyday corruption to cartoonish supercorruption.
posted by The Card Cheat at 7:00 AM on November 18, 2022 [9 favorites]
posted by The Card Cheat at 7:00 AM on November 18, 2022 [9 favorites]
I cannot believe FIFA and IOC are still existing. At least the Olympics are salvageable if it is made a destination, Summer in Greece and Winter in Switzerland every 2 years and be done with it. FIFA and it's subsidiaries like UEFA are unsalvageable at this point. Used to be that the best fitba was played at the WC, as teams had enough time to prepare and have an identity. Now, especially after the Premier League was formed and changed the face of club soccer by basically separating itself from FA, the best soccer is European Club soccer. This is also why I hope the Superleague idea is revived after this fiasco of a WC; and implode UEFA and FIFA.
posted by indianbadger1 at 7:32 AM on November 18, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by indianbadger1 at 7:32 AM on November 18, 2022 [2 favorites]
If it's the World Cup, it must be the Three Lions song retread. Worn out.
posted by biffa at 7:32 AM on November 18, 2022
posted by biffa at 7:32 AM on November 18, 2022
night_train: It boggles my mind that any country would agree to participate or broadcast this sham event. How corrupt or savage does a regime need to be before we say NO?
For sporting events, it seems that you need either political decisions from outside sports administrative bodies, e.g. the tit-for-tat western and eastern bloc Olympic boycotts of 1980 and 84, or a confluence of many factors.
I’ve mentioned here before that the only successful World Cup boycott was when the African teams all withdrew from the 1966 edition. There were two things that came together. The sports admin reason was that Africa, as a whole, was tired of not having at least a single guaranteed spot for a team at the World Cup. The political reason was that the president of FIFA at the time, the execrable racist Stanley Rous, was really keen on having the apartheid states of South Africa and Rhodesia be members of FIFA even though the African confederation had kicked them out. Add to that the fact that the World Cup was held in England, a country which had, at one point or another, done some awful crimes very recently in a large number of countries in Africa.
In 1962, there were sporting reasons (lack of guaranteed spots for countries outside Europe and South America) and in 1978, 2018 and 2022 human rights’ issues, but on its own that wasn’t enough to get enough countries on board to launch a successful boycott.
Like many, I really expected FIFA to reverse course on Qatar in 2011-14, for various mostly petty reasons (Blatter’s likely opponent for the presidency was from Qatar), and there was a human rights’ push at the same time, but unfortunately it didn’t congeal into a wider movement. Which is a crying shame.
posted by Kattullus at 7:32 AM on November 18, 2022 [5 favorites]
For sporting events, it seems that you need either political decisions from outside sports administrative bodies, e.g. the tit-for-tat western and eastern bloc Olympic boycotts of 1980 and 84, or a confluence of many factors.
I’ve mentioned here before that the only successful World Cup boycott was when the African teams all withdrew from the 1966 edition. There were two things that came together. The sports admin reason was that Africa, as a whole, was tired of not having at least a single guaranteed spot for a team at the World Cup. The political reason was that the president of FIFA at the time, the execrable racist Stanley Rous, was really keen on having the apartheid states of South Africa and Rhodesia be members of FIFA even though the African confederation had kicked them out. Add to that the fact that the World Cup was held in England, a country which had, at one point or another, done some awful crimes very recently in a large number of countries in Africa.
In 1962, there were sporting reasons (lack of guaranteed spots for countries outside Europe and South America) and in 1978, 2018 and 2022 human rights’ issues, but on its own that wasn’t enough to get enough countries on board to launch a successful boycott.
Like many, I really expected FIFA to reverse course on Qatar in 2011-14, for various mostly petty reasons (Blatter’s likely opponent for the presidency was from Qatar), and there was a human rights’ push at the same time, but unfortunately it didn’t congeal into a wider movement. Which is a crying shame.
posted by Kattullus at 7:32 AM on November 18, 2022 [5 favorites]
“How Qatar Bought the World Cup” — Johnny Harris, 16 November 2022
posted by ob1quixote at 7:35 AM on November 18, 2022
posted by ob1quixote at 7:35 AM on November 18, 2022
everybody knows
everybody knows, and I suppose seeing the details of what we all know is worth something. I can't bear to watch any of this, I don't care if Canada finally made it in, I'll just be a hypocrite about the hundreds of other things but this is not for me
posted by elkevelvet at 7:38 AM on November 18, 2022 [4 favorites]
everybody knows, and I suppose seeing the details of what we all know is worth something. I can't bear to watch any of this, I don't care if Canada finally made it in, I'll just be a hypocrite about the hundreds of other things but this is not for me
posted by elkevelvet at 7:38 AM on November 18, 2022 [4 favorites]
My wife suggested we only break our boycott if Canada makes the final, so…
posted by The Card Cheat at 8:18 AM on November 18, 2022
posted by The Card Cheat at 8:18 AM on November 18, 2022
I suggest we call it the Gilead World Cup, sounds about right.
posted by WaterAndPixels at 8:29 AM on November 18, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by WaterAndPixels at 8:29 AM on November 18, 2022 [3 favorites]
I'd do more, but I'm already actively not following Olympics/FIFA soccer and I don't have any cable sport channel subscription, so I'm not sure what more can I do.
posted by WaterAndPixels at 8:33 AM on November 18, 2022
posted by WaterAndPixels at 8:33 AM on November 18, 2022
I suggest we call it the Gilead World Cup
Why? It's not in the United States until 2026.
posted by Ahmad Khani at 8:49 AM on November 18, 2022 [5 favorites]
Why? It's not in the United States until 2026.
posted by Ahmad Khani at 8:49 AM on November 18, 2022 [5 favorites]
Why? It's not in the United States until 2026.
It's a regressive place enough.
posted by WaterAndPixels at 8:52 AM on November 18, 2022
It's a regressive place enough.
posted by WaterAndPixels at 8:52 AM on November 18, 2022
What is in it for these weird corrupt nations that want to host major events? I'm thinking about Russia and the last cup, Saudi Arabia hosting an F1 race, and LIV Golf, Qatar and the WC. It's a well-known phenomenon of attempted sportwashing away your sins, but it doesn't work. It just shines a light on your terrible policies and human rights abuses. There's no way the make a net profit from these events, so I'd guess the best policy for these countries would be to keep a low profile, hope no one notices the exceedingly shitty things they are involved in.
The only answer I can formulate is a terrible understanding of how PR works, the immature sentiment that "we are hosting the WC, everyone will love us now."
posted by Keith Talent at 9:26 AM on November 18, 2022 [1 favorite]
The only answer I can formulate is a terrible understanding of how PR works, the immature sentiment that "we are hosting the WC, everyone will love us now."
posted by Keith Talent at 9:26 AM on November 18, 2022 [1 favorite]
one thing these vanity events do: this allows for a large transfer of public money to the pockets of thieves and scum
I can only assume that some personalities also enjoy the perceived status this kind of thing transfers to them.. think of the names that are repeated in the reporting on any given event
and I'm not sure how much the negative PR even matters anymore. It matters to a few people for sure, but not enough? I'm waiting for the day where ripping a heart from a living person becomes a public spectacle again, I'm in a terrible mood today
posted by elkevelvet at 9:41 AM on November 18, 2022 [2 favorites]
I can only assume that some personalities also enjoy the perceived status this kind of thing transfers to them.. think of the names that are repeated in the reporting on any given event
and I'm not sure how much the negative PR even matters anymore. It matters to a few people for sure, but not enough? I'm waiting for the day where ripping a heart from a living person becomes a public spectacle again, I'm in a terrible mood today
posted by elkevelvet at 9:41 AM on November 18, 2022 [2 favorites]
What is in it for these weird corrupt nations that want to host major events? I'm thinking about Russia and the last cup, Saudi Arabia hosting an F1 race, and LIV Golf, Qatar and the WC. It's a well-known phenomenon of attempted sportwashing away your sins, but it doesn't work. It just shines a light on your terrible policies and human rights abuses. There's no way the make a net profit from these events, so I'd guess the best policy for these countries would be to keep a low profile, hope no one notices the exceedingly shitty things they are involved in.
Dictator in places likes F1/Golf/Soccer and wants to host it directly for the associated prestige?
I don't think they expect we'll love them for it, but it probably satisfies some urge for them and that's enough.
posted by WaterAndPixels at 9:41 AM on November 18, 2022
Dictator in places likes F1/Golf/Soccer and wants to host it directly for the associated prestige?
I don't think they expect we'll love them for it, but it probably satisfies some urge for them and that's enough.
posted by WaterAndPixels at 9:41 AM on November 18, 2022
Also, maybe some people will be turned off by it but the super-rich aren't. They'll just see nice facilities and they can have a good time without worrying about plebs or paparazzi. And once your David Beckham's are photographed there enough then it'll become aspirational for enough of the non-super-rich that they'll get a decent tourist industry out of it. Like why do people holiday in Dubai? Qatar wants the same and this is a way to jumpstart it.
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 10:40 AM on November 18, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 10:40 AM on November 18, 2022 [1 favorite]
There's no way the make a net profit from these events
The goal isn't to make a net profit in Qatar for this. It's to show that you have a lot of money so that other entities with a lot of money are willing to play with you. If you're Qatar, and you're facing a post-fossil fuel future, you're looking to diversify as quickly as you can before the one asset you have is worthless.
posted by parliboy at 1:05 PM on November 18, 2022
The goal isn't to make a net profit in Qatar for this. It's to show that you have a lot of money so that other entities with a lot of money are willing to play with you. If you're Qatar, and you're facing a post-fossil fuel future, you're looking to diversify as quickly as you can before the one asset you have is worthless.
posted by parliboy at 1:05 PM on November 18, 2022
And it has been weird to see all the Qatar ads, on things that are not explicitly related to the world cup. Same networks maybe?
posted by Windopaene at 2:13 PM on November 18, 2022
posted by Windopaene at 2:13 PM on November 18, 2022
I know some people just want to use this post as a place to talk about corruption & the world cup but the series does touch on interesting things around it. For instance, it draws a direct line from Charles Belgrave to the kafala system under which migrants workers end up working.
posted by juv3nal at 5:54 PM on November 18, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by juv3nal at 5:54 PM on November 18, 2022 [1 favorite]
Al my soccer team mates are totally into international soccer. They send texts every Saturday morning about EPL games and such, and they are totally hyped about the world cup. And the last one, I was driving cross country and listened to the games on the radio, and I was into it. It is a thing.
But this one?
So much grift and death and such. They are having a pool, requiring a FIFA login. Going to a local bar for the USA vs. Wales game. Just can't do that. COVID and Corruption, no thanks. Can't enjoy that and treat it like it's a normal fandom.
FIFA needs to be ended, like all those slave laborers who died building the stadiums and such. It is a shame the Beautiful Game has become this. Thanks FIFA.
posted by Windopaene at 9:24 PM on November 18, 2022
But this one?
So much grift and death and such. They are having a pool, requiring a FIFA login. Going to a local bar for the USA vs. Wales game. Just can't do that. COVID and Corruption, no thanks. Can't enjoy that and treat it like it's a normal fandom.
FIFA needs to be ended, like all those slave laborers who died building the stadiums and such. It is a shame the Beautiful Game has become this. Thanks FIFA.
posted by Windopaene at 9:24 PM on November 18, 2022
Adding a link to Bella Donna’s excellent recent FPP: Something wicked this way comes: Qatar World Cup.
posted by rrrrrrrrrt at 11:04 PM on November 18, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by rrrrrrrrrt at 11:04 PM on November 18, 2022 [1 favorite]
Prestige is a hell of a drug. And I don't think that despotic regimes are about whitewashing their sins away; if anything, they gain prestige by not hiding them, because that's a sign of power. It's the energy that Trump feeds off of, as well as his followers, vicariously.
posted by Halloween Jack at 1:37 PM on November 19, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by Halloween Jack at 1:37 PM on November 19, 2022 [1 favorite]
The first match was not the most exciting soccer match that I have seen. People started leaving early in the second half. I feel sorry for the game and its players. Hopefully the future cup matches will be more competitive.
posted by DJZouke at 12:30 PM on November 20, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by DJZouke at 12:30 PM on November 20, 2022 [1 favorite]
Oh hey, FIFA is trying to ban rainbow armbands. Quelle surprise
posted by Jacen at 12:29 PM on November 21, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by Jacen at 12:29 PM on November 21, 2022 [1 favorite]
As usual Roy Keane pulls no punches on the failure to wear the rainbow armband. I think it was a big mistake
posted by night_train at 5:18 AM on November 22, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by night_train at 5:18 AM on November 22, 2022 [1 favorite]
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BBC: "World Cup 2022: Alcohol sales banned at World Cup stadiums in Qatar" - though that's not technically accurate as "Alcohol will not be sold at the World Cup's eight stadiums in Qatar after Fifa changed its policy two days before the start of the tournament ... Those in corporate areas of stadiums at the tournament will still be able to purchase alcohol."
Guardian: ‘One more go for the blokes’: Skinner and Baddiel record festive Three Lions track.
posted by Wordshore at 4:26 AM on November 18, 2022