Brittney Griner Freed From Prison in Russia
December 8, 2022 5:38 AM   Subscribe

President Biden says WNBA star Brittney Griner has been freed from a Russian prison. "Moments ago I spoke to Brittney Griner. She is safe. She is on a plane. She is on her way home," he wrote on Twitter. Previously and previouslier.
posted by ellieBOA (100 comments total) 42 users marked this as a favorite
 
FUCK YES
posted by Kitteh at 5:43 AM on December 8, 2022 [35 favorites]


It sucks that Viktor Bout is also now free in exchange, but it was always going to take something like that.
posted by Lentrohamsanin at 5:48 AM on December 8, 2022 [12 favorites]


And didn’t editorialise but best fucking news!!!!
posted by ellieBOA at 5:51 AM on December 8, 2022 [10 favorites]


What she did is illegal in the United States, too.
Surely the farce of prohibition can't be propped up for much longer.
The cognitive dissonance must be excruciating.
posted by The genius who rejected Anno's budget proposal. at 5:51 AM on December 8, 2022 [12 favorites]


Thank god she's free. I hope she can recuperate and that this awful time won't hold her back from whatever she wishes to do in the next stage of her life. I hope she hasn't been injured and can get back on the court if that's what she wants. Most of all I hope she can get the mental health support that she will surely need as she recovers and readjusts.
posted by Pallas Athena at 5:56 AM on December 8, 2022 [34 favorites]


That's great news, but the only disappointing note (aside from the fact that Viktor Bout is a truly horrifying human being who is now free) is that Paul Whelan was not released and I believe is still being "hospitalized" by Russian authorities. I know the State Department was also working hard to get him back too, although his case is less obviously a miscarriage of justice than Griner's.

I only bring this up because (through an improbable chain of connections) I know the Whelan family personally and today is going to be a tough day for them. I sincerely hope the pressure is kept on to get him freed.
posted by fortitude25 at 6:11 AM on December 8, 2022 [39 favorites]


What she did is illegal in the United States, too.

Some United States. Cannabis is decriminalized in many states.

Additionally, I'd push back on "what she did," and rather, word it as "what she was accused of." The allegation never really passed the sniff test as far as I'm concerned.

But "officials plant drugs on Black people in the United States, too" is definitely a true statement that won't be reflected on in the wake of this incident.
posted by explosion at 6:13 AM on December 8, 2022 [81 favorites]


I know someone related to Paul Whelan too here in Paris, it’s really sad that he wasn’t also released.
posted by ellieBOA at 6:15 AM on December 8, 2022 [2 favorites]


We relitigated the case enough in the previous two threads, can I ask that we don’t do that again here?
posted by ellieBOA at 6:16 AM on December 8, 2022 [21 favorites]


This is great news!
posted by niicholas at 6:19 AM on December 8, 2022 [1 favorite]


Holy shit. I am so relieved for her and her family. I hope that she will be as unscathed as possible from these last 10 months.
posted by obfuscation at 6:20 AM on December 8, 2022 [5 favorites]


Oh thank goodness.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 6:27 AM on December 8, 2022 [2 favorites]


Great news! A lot of people suspected it would have to be after the mid-terms to prevent Putin handing a win to Biden. But I am just glad it happened!
posted by inflatablekiwi at 6:29 AM on December 8, 2022 [1 favorite]


So we prisoner swapped someone who was wrongfully imprisoned for having weed on them for one of the most notorious arms dealers of the late 20th/early 21st century and ultra-merchant of death ?

I'm happy for Ms Grier, but it sets a really grim precedent. Kidnap some moderately famous person for a bullshit trumped up minor charge, get back an (ex-) huge fucking intelligence asset, mass murderer and flouter of international law.

There may be other reasons I’d love to know the calculus on this.

It's a good day to be an arms dealer or a cartel member.
posted by lalochezia at 6:45 AM on December 8, 2022 [26 favorites]


It's a genuine fucking Christmas miracle.
posted by Halloween Jack at 6:48 AM on December 8, 2022 [6 favorites]


Best news to wake up to!
posted by johnxlibris at 6:53 AM on December 8, 2022 [2 favorites]


TBH, I never thought there was any doubt that they would eventually free Griner in exchange for someone, it was just a question of whom and how much they had to ratchet the pressure to get the trade they wanted. The fact that they went so far to send her to a prison camp shows that the US really had to be strongarmed to release Bout. I am very glad for her, her wife, and her family, and sorry that she had to endure such a long ordeal.
posted by briank at 6:55 AM on December 8, 2022 [12 favorites]


For what it's worth, it is essentially ~5 years off a 25 year sentence for Bout. One perspective on the calculus

So why even consider the potential offer? First, Bout is a spent force who will be out of jail in a few years anyway. His business depended on personal relationships and trust among the parties. After being out of the business for more than a decade, Bout has neither of those left in the shadowy world in which he once operated. Second, Bout needed access to a global network stretching from Afghanistan to Europe, Africa and South America. That network has morphed through several generations of new actors, markets and gatekeepers. Bout has no currency in that world now.

Finally, Bout depended in the early years on the gross negligence of the former Soviet states to allow him to simply fly out aircraft and weapons in a spree of de facto privatization of one of the world’s most advanced arsenals. In his later years, he was reined in by the Russian state under Putin, no longer able to freelance at will and without unfettered access to massive caches of weapons. It is unlikely he would have any freedom of movement in the weapons trade unless he was in the direct service of the Russian intelligence services, and now he is burned beyond the ability to be useful in any significant capacity.

posted by Garm at 6:58 AM on December 8, 2022 [75 favorites]


Despite the hype, Bout was such a small fish in the illegal global arms trade that he only got the minimum 25 year sentence and was held in a medium security prison.
posted by interogative mood at 7:14 AM on December 8, 2022 [4 favorites]


I'm so glad she's safe. Everything about this situation sucks but at least she will be safe.

We relitigated the case enough

Re-litigated implies the case was ever litigated. I agree there's no point going back and forth on Griner's actual possession of marijuana on metafilter dot com. But I find it troubling how the US media has so quickly accepted the Russian narrative of her guilt. As noted above, it echoes how often the US media accepts American narrative of Black people's guilt in minor drug crimes. It also indicates a serious naivete about the Russian judicial system and politics.
posted by Nelson at 7:26 AM on December 8, 2022 [23 favorites]


Just a reminder: no one should be in jail for weed.
posted by Kitteh at 7:30 AM on December 8, 2022 [57 favorites]


Paul Whelan

Reportedly, the FSB wanted Vadim Krasikov, but the government wanted Roman Seleznev. Negotiating a two for two swap is necessarily more complicated, and may have taken much longer.
posted by zamboni at 7:41 AM on December 8, 2022 [5 favorites]


I am glad to see this news. I was concerned that the Russian government was going to hold out for a better deal, maybe a better deal than the American government would be willing to agree to, so it is good to see this happen.

If she did what she was accused of, that was dumb but not worthy of jail, and I am very doubtful that if she had been a non-celebrity that the Russians would have prosecuted it nearly as intensely. She was just a bargaining chip and once it got started it doesn't really change anything if she was caught red handed or it was planted.
posted by Dip Flash at 7:42 AM on December 8, 2022 [1 favorite]


The Phoenix Mercury pinned tweet (from Dec. 5th):
Today marks the 𝟐𝟗𝟏st day of BG’s wrongful detention.

Everyday we pray that she holds on just a little bit tighter until this nightmare is over. Yesterday, today and everyday we remind the world, #WeAreBG 🧡

Tweet from 9 minutes ago:
No more days. She’s coming home 🧡

posted by eckeric at 7:43 AM on December 8, 2022 [29 favorites]


I'm so relieved. I've been terrified for her. And disgusted that anyone would defend the sentence in the first place.
posted by praemunire at 7:51 AM on December 8, 2022 [16 favorites]


I never thought she was arrested for marijuana. She was arrested for being gay in the wrong place.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 7:56 AM on December 8, 2022 [24 favorites]


She was a political pawn in a very dangerous game. As ugly as this prisoner swap is there was no way she was being freed without the US paying a price.

On a related note:


US State Department:
Russia - Level 4: Do Not Travel

Do not travel to Russia due to the unprovoked and unjustified invasion of Ukraine by Russian military forces, the potential for harassment against U.S. citizens by Russian government security officials, the singling out of U.S. citizens in Russia by Russian government security officials including for detention, the arbitrary enforcement of local law, limited flights into and out of Russia, the Embassy’s limited ability to assist U.S. citizens in Russia, COVID-19-related restrictions, and terrorism. U.S. citizens residing or travelling in Russia should depart Russia immediately. Exercise increased caution due to wrongful detentions. (italics mine)
posted by tommasz at 7:57 AM on December 8, 2022 [28 favorites]


Good news!

She has been individually enduring the burden of our entire country's international relations. That is a lot for one person to bear. I am glad she is free and returning home.

(Not that our international relations should be different, just that she has disproportionately experienced the effects of that compared to most of us. E.g., I may have paid a few cents more per gallon of gas as a result, but I have not been in prison.)
posted by bruinfan at 8:03 AM on December 8, 2022 [6 favorites]


Just a reminder: no one should be in jail for weed.

I agree, but going to prison for weed is still an issue here in the US (where it is federally illegal and still illegal in quite a few states, though fewer every year) and in most countries around the world. Flying internationally with weed is just not a good idea. Leaving aside the question of if this is something Griner actually did, since I have zero trust in the truthfulness of the Russian police system, it is clearly not a good idea in general, even if lots of people get away with it all the time.

The disproportionate nature of the consequences she faced (even assuming the accusations were true) really highlights how awful the criminalization of weed is for all the people who get caught up in the criminal justice system.
posted by Dip Flash at 8:08 AM on December 8, 2022 [4 favorites]


Then what you do is support efforts to eradicate the disporportionate injustice of Black folks and other minorities who are jailed for cannabis offenses.

Last Prisoner Project (US and Canada)

Cannabis Amnesty (Canada)

If your country has a similiar social justice group, get involved.
posted by Kitteh at 8:18 AM on December 8, 2022 [11 favorites]


I wonder, has this episode changed anything with regards to professional athletes competing in Russia?
posted by soylent00FF00 at 8:43 AM on December 8, 2022 [2 favorites]


this is such wonderful news. I hope she is able to get all the care she needs, and the time to do some healing from this awful experience.
posted by supermedusa at 8:58 AM on December 8, 2022 [2 favorites]


I've wondered about what this means for US athletes working in Russia too. Also curious about the non-role that UMMC Ekaterinburg played in all this, Griner's Russian employer. In a normal country they should have been working to help protect her in the legal system, since she was there to work for them. It's all kind of moot right now because of Russia's attempted invasion of Ukraine. But presumably that ends at some point; how safe will Americans be to visit Russia afterwards?
posted by Nelson at 9:01 AM on December 8, 2022 [3 favorites]


I hope Biden gets the credit he damn well deserves here. So many people calling for him to follow through, and castigating him for failing or forgetting or whatever, but ..... he delivered. Even well after it would have benefitted him or the election. He brought her home.
posted by Dashy at 9:21 AM on December 8, 2022 [30 favorites]


I've seen some people on Twitter mention that there are people who believe Bout was probably safer in a US prison that he will be in Russia. I've searched for any information on this, but Google search is pure garbage now and only shows me articles from today no mater what I search with. The Politico article was good- anyone have any more on why some people are thinking Bout is more likely to be defenestrated rather than celebrated?
posted by oneirodynia at 9:33 AM on December 8, 2022 [2 favorites]


He brought her home.

True, but he left behind not just Whelan, but also sixty one year teacher Marc Fogel who also had prescription cannabis and who's been in jail longer.

PR is everything.
posted by BWA at 9:36 AM on December 8, 2022 [2 favorites]


Steph Curry would have been home in 48 hours.

Doesn’t change the fact that this is still great news.
posted by gottabefunky at 9:49 AM on December 8, 2022 [1 favorite]


I honestly thought it was hopeless once she went into the penal colony. Genuinely shocked this morning to have good news. I hope they get her a lot of therapy when she's back.
posted by jenfullmoon at 10:27 AM on December 8, 2022 [8 favorites]


She was arrested for being gay in the wrong place.

Well, things have gone from terrible to even more terrible on that particular front...

Russia bans LGBT ‘propaganda,’ the ‘imposition of information’ about homosexuality and ‘sex reassignment.’ Here’s the law broken down:

On November 24, Russia’s State Duma passed the third and final reading of legislation that bans all “propaganda of non-traditional sexual relationships.” Six days later, the Parliament’s upper chamber also approved the bills, which President Putin signed into law on December 5. The new rules enter into force immediately. LGBT “propaganda” has been banned in Russia since June 2013, but only among minors. The authorities have now significantly expanded the list of restrictions: “propaganda” and “impositions” are now prohibited in the presence of children and adults alike. The law applies to everything, including films, books, advertising, television, and social media.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 10:40 AM on December 8, 2022 [5 favorites]


It feels like EVERY comment online is about how she "shouldn't have done that," as if her guilt was assured; and if not that, it's about the "arms dealer" exchange, as if America shouldn't try to get their unfairly imprisoned people back? Happy to see happiness here.
posted by tiny frying pan at 10:52 AM on December 8, 2022 [18 favorites]


Just this morning I was talking about the Ukraine war with my wife over coffee—but don't worry, we weren't in our garden—and she said, "...but man, Brittney Griner is screwed—they're never going to release her." And I was thrilled to be able to say, "They released her this morning, like an hour ago!"
posted by The Tensor at 10:58 AM on December 8, 2022 [14 favorites]


- What she did is illegal in the United States, too.
-- Some United States. Cannabis is decriminalized in many states.

"In court, Griner admitted to mistakenly packing two vape cartridges in her rush to pack her luggage — but provided documents that showed the hash oil was legally prescribed by her U.S. doctor for pain management." Griner is a resident of Arizona, where cannabis is recreationally legal, too.
posted by Iris Gambol at 11:01 AM on December 8, 2022 [14 favorites]


And she was probably forced to "admit" it anyway. I mean. It's insane how hateful people are.
posted by tiny frying pan at 11:03 AM on December 8, 2022 [5 favorites]


I wouldn't trust an admission of guilt under those circumstances to be anything but forced.
posted by kokaku at 11:04 AM on December 8, 2022 [15 favorites]


Bowl-worthy news.
posted by aiq at 11:24 AM on December 8, 2022 [7 favorites]


After being out of the business for more than a decade, Bout has neither of those left in the shadowy world in which he once operated

Even if Bout were to try to restart his arms trafficking business, he could never again travel safely outside of Russia. Can't trust dealing with someone who is almost certainly a spy.

To some extent, Bout will have to spend the rest of the waning years of his life in a rapidly declining Russia, which is punishment in itself.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 11:30 AM on December 8, 2022 [7 favorites]


And that's even if Bout doesn't manage to get himself suicided out of a third-story window.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 11:36 AM on December 8, 2022 [4 favorites]


yeah, this is def a win for Griner and her loved ones, and its probably some "diplomatic" win for Putin cause he's like pwning Biden, right? but it seems like a lose-lose for Bout, no matter how it goes down...
posted by supermedusa at 11:51 AM on December 8, 2022


This news is a relief. I hope Griner's going to be okay. And I'm not just thinking of play-sports-okay. We have no idea, really, what she's been through. Glad she'll get to be home and reunited with her important people.
posted by SaharaRose at 11:57 AM on December 8, 2022 [7 favorites]


The fact that there still exist people who think that charges brought by Russia are actually credible is pretty amazing.
posted by Pyrogenesis at 12:36 PM on December 8, 2022 [11 favorites]


The fact that there still exist people who think that charges brought by Russia are actually credible is pretty amazing.

Are you like me and have a great number of leftist acquaintances on social media? I have tried to debate some folks that are adamant that we too possess Draconian drug laws that imprison people for possession. Granted it is quite false equivalency to compare our justice system to that of an outright oligarchy, which I have tried to raise, but they just don't see it that way. It almost feels like some are willing propagandists for Russia as opposed to merely equally detesting the United States' injustices.

Ammunition for these arguments welcome and appreciated
posted by Perko at 1:02 PM on December 8, 2022 [2 favorites]


There's a video of the prisoner exchange, which happened in Abu Dhabi on this WaPo Live Updates thread. It's kind of shocking to me this is the way it went down, pretty much the same as you see prisoner exchanges in movies.
posted by mcstayinskool at 1:52 PM on December 8, 2022 [2 favorites]


Speaking of Viktor Bout, Why did Russia want him so bad? is a fascinating read.

Oddly, there's a pull-quote in the article from a member of Russia' Duma:

“Thank God this exchange happened,” Maria Butina, a member of the Russian State Duma, told Russian Defense Ministry media outlet Zvezda. “I am happy, my heart sings. We don’t abandon our own people.”

WaPo gives zero context, but this is a quote from Maria Butina, who infiltrated the NRA, became romantically involved with multiple right-wing players in the U.S., including psycho conspiracy theorist Patrick Byrne (who bankrolled the Arizona CyberNinjas Fraudit as well as participating in the most batshit crazy oval office meeting ever), was imprisoned in the U.S. after being found guilty of being an unregistered foreign agent, then deported to Russia. She is now a member of Russia' Duma and explicitly supports Russia's war on Ukraine.

It's breathtaking how much Butina has interjected herself into literally everything shady in US-Russia affairs.
posted by mcstayinskool at 2:01 PM on December 8, 2022 [16 favorites]


There's a paywall on the WAPO link but my reading on why Putin in particular wanted Viktor Bout back is exactly that pull quote - "We don't abandon our own people."

Arresting a random nobody on a flimsy charge to exchange for a notorious arms dealer demonstrates Putin WILL take care of his subjects, and that he has the canny and strength to do so despite the West trying to weaken his grip on power. Regimes fall apart when people realize those things are no longer true.
posted by xdvesper at 2:29 PM on December 8, 2022 [1 favorite]


Archive link for the WaPo article above.
posted by ellieBOA at 2:34 PM on December 8, 2022


became romantically involved with multiple right-wing players in the U.S.

I'm not sure romance is the right term.
posted by kirkaracha at 2:45 PM on December 8, 2022 [1 favorite]


Arresting a random nobody

Britney Griner is very much not a random nobody. She's an American, gay, black, professional female athlete with publicly known chronic pain that she treats with marijuana. Pretty much a laundry list of things Putin could leverage against her, and by extension against the U.S.

And there are plenty of Russians in foreign jails that Putin isn't going to bat for. Bout is special.
posted by mcstayinskool at 3:02 PM on December 8, 2022 [8 favorites]


Steph Curry would have been home in 48 hours.

FYI, this can be interpreted as misogynoir, whether intentional or not. This situation had nothing to do with Griner not being a peak NBA player who's highly valued and regarded, and also happens to be Black. I think a better comparison might be to Serena Williams.
posted by fuse theorem at 4:35 PM on December 8, 2022


Steph Curry would have been home in 48 hours.

Tom Nichols has a short and good piece in The Atlantic about Griner.
Griner was arrested just days before the invasion of Ukraine, which is to say that she was grabbed after Putin and his circle had almost certainly made the decision to go to war. She was perfect for the part that the Russians wanted her to play as a possible bargaining chip. She is a prominent American, but not too prominent. She is gay, Black, and covered in tattoos, the kind of defendant for whom the average Russian will have no sympathy. Detaining her for a minor drug charge must have been an easy call for the Russian intelligence services.
If Russia had grabbed Curry or LeBron or (say) Bill Gates, there would have been incredible international outrage. The observation of "not too prominent" is spot on.
posted by jasonhong at 5:08 PM on December 8, 2022 [10 favorites]


So we prisoner swapped someone who was wrongfully imprisoned for having weed on them for one of the most notorious arms dealers of the late 20th/early 21st century and ultra-merchant of death ?

I'm happy for Ms Grier, but it sets a really grim precedent. Kidnap some moderately famous person for a bullshit trumped up minor charge, get back an (ex-) huge fucking intelligence asset, mass murderer and flouter of international law.

There may be other reasons I’d love to know the calculus on this.


Are you sure you're happy for her? You don't sound very happy for her.

Takes like this have been very popular over on reddit today. Most of the top-voted comments run along similar lines.

This argument, which I'll call an appeal to realpolitik, has a corollary of sorts that its proponents never bother to bring up: what if a totally unknown American citizen had been traded today instead? Say, one of the more anonymous people who were mentioned in this thread? If you're being Cold-Blooded and Rational about all this, then it stands to reason that trading a Paul Whelan -- a real nobody! -- for Viktor Bout would be even worse than trading Brittney Griner. But you never see that side of the argument. You never see the hard-nosed realists playing by their own rules for long enough to consider that in the grim geopolitical game they imagine themselves playing, maybe Griner is actually worth more to the United States than Whelan. And if that possibility does rear its head, the hard-nosed realists immediately pivot to complaining that Griner must have gotten preferential treatment over detainees like Whelan because Griner is, you guessed it, a queer woman of color. Yup, it's that goddamned affirmative action taking the spots of good decent (straight white) Americans who've been waiting their turn! Because we're all happy to play war games from our couches, but God forbid that the State Department should ever deem a woman of color more valuable than a white man for any reason.

If Griner had never been detained and Paul Whelan had been traded for Viktor Bout today, do you know what wouldn't be taking over reddit threads and popping up on metafilter? Hot takes from hard-nosed realists saying that Paul Whelan simply isn't worth it in the grand geopolitical calculus. What you would likely see is a series of acknowledgments, alternately grudging or grandiose, that our government has a responsibility to bring each of its citizens home, not because of their individual merit but simply because they are American citizens and we owe it to them without having to assign them a value. We can be positively magnanimous when the American citizen in the headlines looks a certain way.

A trade requires an evaluation of worth. It requires the United States government to implicitly say, "we think that Brittney Griner -- a 6 foot 9 inch queer woman of color who is the public face of excellence in a sport traditionally reserved for men -- is worth this much to us." No fucking wonder people are saying that America made a mistake today, because apparently the gravest mistake in American society is to concede that a person like Brittney Griner has value.
posted by cubeb at 5:10 PM on December 8, 2022 [50 favorites]


To offer a taste of how The Discourse is going over on reddit, the top post on r/popular (along with about a quarter of all the other top posts on r/popular) is about the Griner trade. One of the top comments in that thread, with nearly 17,000 upvotes, says, "It’s a PR/propaganda win for [Russia]. They’re trading a common card and getting a rare one in return."

Look past the sheer derisiveness for a moment and notice the framing here. If it were Paul Whelan being traded, he would not be cast as a "common card" in the first place. He would be cast as an object of pity, a private citizen caught up in a terrible situation far beyond his control. And the trade would be cast as a grim necessity for the American government -- a sacrifice that simply must be made, a hit that must be taken in stride, even though Viktor Bout has done monstrous things. But Brittney Griner? No, Brittney Griner is America's common card. She deserves to be judged for this, harshly and without pity. Forget the fact that both governments agreed that these two people were sufficiently commensurate in value to exchange with each other. Forget the fact that the trade did, in fact, happen. Griner cannot be understood as a private citizen deserving of mercy and intercession regardless of her merit or importance; yet on the other hand, even when the trade is actually made, Griner cannot be considered a worthy trade. In America's court of public opinion, Griner will never be allowed to win.
posted by cubeb at 7:19 PM on December 8, 2022 [22 favorites]


Britney Griner is very much not a random nobody. She's an American, gay, black, professional female athlete with publicly known chronic pain that she treats with marijuana.

Which is exactly my point - the question was why the Russian want the exchange to happen. These are things Americans care about. To the average Russian, or people in positions of power in Moscow, she's a random nobody, which is why this is a resounding win for Putin's regime.
posted by xdvesper at 8:11 PM on December 8, 2022 [1 favorite]


So your position is that we should let a woman rot in a Russian prison to deny Putin a “win”?
posted by dorothy hawk at 9:30 PM on December 8, 2022 [6 favorites]


Which is exactly my point - the question was why the Russian want the exchange to happen. These are things Americans care about. To the average Russian, or people in positions of power in Moscow, she's a random nobody, which is why this is a resounding win for Putin's regime.

But to the average American, Viktor Bout is a random nobody. (Much more of a random nobody than the other way around; Griner spent several years earning mid-six figures as a professional athlete in Russia, leading her team to three European championships and 5 Russian ones.) And if Garm's link above holds any water: "Bout is a spent force who will be out of jail in a few years anyway." So to people in positions of power in DC, he's a random nobody. So in what way is this not an equally resounding win for the Biden regime?

You're really just saying that every negotiated deal involves both sides getting something of more value to them than that which they give up, which is the first sentence in the syllabus for Negotiations 101. Only stopping halfway through the sentence to either diminish Brittney Griner or sound like a jaded cynical realpolitik master.
posted by Superilla at 10:28 PM on December 8, 2022 [9 favorites]


Are you like me and have a great number of leftist acquaintances on social media? I have tried to debate some folks that are adamant that we too possess Draconian drug laws that imprison people for possession.

Yes, I do know tankies. These are people who first mock the common belief that "socialism is when the government does things, and the more the government does the more socialister it is", but then immediately at the same time think "imperialism is only when America does it, therefore everything that opposes the US is good". Probably not worth engaging with them...
posted by Pyrogenesis at 10:35 PM on December 8, 2022 [2 favorites]


Thank God she's free.
posted by riverlife at 12:46 AM on December 9, 2022 [3 favorites]


Via Autostraddle, who have been relentlessly reporting on all the updates about Brittney Griner for the whole long 9 months, First Footage of Brittney Griner Leaving Russia Shows Her Safe, Whole, and Smiling.
posted by ellieBOA at 2:02 AM on December 9, 2022 [4 favorites]


How do I know this is a big Biden win? The GOPers and MAGA-heads who drift into my social media radius are universally complaining about it. The right-wing noise machine sees this as a D win to be shouted down by whatever means necessary.

The same people are out there complaining about falling gas prices, fwiw.
posted by gimonca at 4:25 AM on December 9, 2022 [8 favorites]


"In court, Griner admitted to mistakenly packing two vape cartridges in her rush to pack her luggage — but provided documents that showed the hash oil was legally prescribed by her U.S. doctor for pain management."

Rohrabacher–Farr is toothless and has been outright ignored in the past. Not only should it have been federally legalized yesterday, but the fact that, along with abortion, it isn't illegal for states to prohibit it is a disgrace.

But I find it troubling how the US media has so quickly accepted the Russian narrative of her guilt.

This is so bizarre to me. Would we be having this conversation if the charge was for being homosexual? Of course not, because we have come to understand that there is no moral or ethical dimension to whom you chose to have consensual relationships with. But somehow we are still buying into the prohibitionist narrative that possessing an inanimate substance (or even putting it into one's own body) makes one "guilty". Let's not do their propaganda work for them.
posted by The genius who rejected Anno's budget proposal. at 4:55 AM on December 9, 2022 [7 favorites]


I'll say it bluntly. Brittney Griner is worth as much as Viktor Bout. She is as deserving of her freedom as Paul Whelan. More if you use the whiners' own perverted calculus, given that he is a criminal - he was dishonourably discharged from the Marines for larceny - and she is not. The marijuana capsules that were at the centre of this whole mess were legally purchased, with a prescription. Painting her as a criminal is falling into tired old racist, puritanical tropes about Black people, criminality, and drug use.

Griner was an easy target who happened to be at the wrong place in the wrong time. She is not lesser than some white dude, and shame on everyone who is implying she is on account of her gender, her race, and her sexuality.

And all of this obscures the fact that Brittney Griner was only in Russia because the lack of support and funding for female athletes in the richest country in the world is obscene. Someone at her level should not have had to go to a country infamous for its treatment of queer people, not to mention racial minorities in order to make a living. Forget Kobe, or LeBron, or whoever else. How many NBA players who aren't a household name have to make a decision between their personal safety and their ability to make a living?
posted by Tamanna at 6:10 AM on December 9, 2022 [19 favorites]


Heather Cox Richardson, in her latest newsletter:
It is worth noting that Russian operatives work to sow division in the U.S., and permitting Biden to win the freedom of a Black married lesbian while keeping a white former Marine in prison is the sort of ploy that could turn the repatriation of an American into a cultural flashpoint. Impressively, both the Griner family and the Whelan family avoided that trap and kept a united front.

Former president Trump, however, played along, complaining bitterly about “a ‘stupid’ and unpatriotic embarrassment for the USA!!!” that had secured the release of “a basketball player who openly hates our Country” instead of “former Marine Paul Whelan,” who “would have been let out for the asking.” Other MAGA Republicans followed suit.
posted by Kat Allison at 6:18 AM on December 9, 2022 [8 favorites]


Former president Trump, however, played along, complaining bitterly about “a ‘stupid’ and unpatriotic embarrassment for the USA!!!” that had secured the release of “a basketball player who openly hates our Country” instead of “former Marine Paul Whelan,” who “would have been let out for the asking.” Other MAGA Republicans followed suit.

Let us peek into the alternate universe next door where the headline on this story was "Paul Whelan Freed From Prison in Russia":
Former president Trump, however, played along, complaining bitterly about “a ‘stupid’ and unpatriotic embarrassment for the USA!!!” that had secured the release of “a probable spy who was kicked out of the Marines" instead of "two-time American Olympic Gold Medalist Brittney Griner,” who “would have been let out for the asking.” Other MAGA Republicans followed suit.
posted by Etrigan at 6:44 AM on December 9, 2022 [12 favorites]


Someone on my Facebook feed was arguing that she was only released because she was a celebrity, and I responded that was also the only reason she was arrested.
posted by Furnace of Doubt at 10:40 AM on December 9, 2022 [9 favorites]


would have been let out for the asking

Go ahead, Donald. Ask your pal to release him. You'll be a hero.
posted by hypnogogue at 12:52 PM on December 9, 2022


Nothing about Paul Whelan makes any sense. If he’s a spy then legend they created for him was some kind of dare/troll concocted to mess with someone. If he isn’t a spy then explain his private sector job. How does a guy who was kicked out of the marines for larceny end up with an actual corporate security job?
posted by interogative mood at 3:52 PM on December 9, 2022 [2 favorites]


If he isn’t a spy then explain his private sector job. How does a guy who was kicked out of the marines for larceny end up with an actual corporate security job?

Corporate security is a very weird field that attracts and rewards... I'll say a wide variety of people and skillsets.
posted by Etrigan at 5:50 PM on December 9, 2022


Viktor Bout is likely merely a celebrity too now. Griner might win more games. Bout might give lectures. It's likely an even trade..

Paul Whelan is not a celebrity. Afaik not otherwise significant either. If NATO members' laws were just, then NATO members would not imprison Russians who'd both make an even trade for Whelan and also be interesting for Russia.

Now NATO members have many unjust drug laws, so maybe some rich Russian kid lands himself in jail for cocaine possession, and becomes a reasonable trade, but imho a trade won't be even per se.

Roman Seleznev is merely a credit card fraudster, but quite a large one. It appears his capture cost the US considerable resources and soft power. It'd kinda damage US law enforcement to trade him I think, but after another 10 years then maybe.

Vadim Krasikov is an FSB assassin, with work in 2019 and a 2021 conviction. Germany should never trade him unless they'd parole him anyways. I'd hope beyond 20 years at lesat.

America v USSR trades of actual spies made some sense during the Cold war. Putin's Russia acts "more criminal" though, so any prisoner trades endangers Americans who travel to Russia and their allies.

I'd personally error towards caution by never doing any prisoner trades with Putin's Russia. Yes, the Bout-Griner trade looks oddly even, but imho it feels too dangerous, so I would never have traded them, but what do I know?

I think now Biden should be blamed if Russia nabs a few more famous Americans. Also conversely Biden deserves credit for calling this one correctly if Russia does not nab more famous Americans. I'm assume/hope the CIA provided risk assessments before Biden made this choice.
posted by jeffburdges at 7:06 PM on December 9, 2022


I typically assume Biden, et al. benefits from dragging out the Ukraine war. It's likely more complex though, so maybe the Bout-Griner trade shows America granting Putin's Russia a measure of the respect due the USSR, and in so doing makes exiting the war politically easier for Putin. I donno..
posted by jeffburdges at 7:30 PM on December 9, 2022


Famous Americans are not going to get nabbed unless they foolishly decide to travel to Russia or fight in Ukraine. If Russia kidnapped an American outside its jurisdiction or the combat zone it would be a significant escalation and there would be a swift and serious U.S. response.
posted by interogative mood at 8:00 PM on December 9, 2022 [2 favorites]


We've no shortage of people making foolish decisions all the time, so at face value that's largely irrelevant, but real risk assessments would consider numbers I guess. Russian jurisdiction seems not so well defined really.

As anyone sane expects, actions against individuals bring only rhetorical escalation anyways, mostly this stays in Europe, ala Scot Young and so many others in the UK, but Mikhail Lesin and two others were assassinated in the US.
posted by jeffburdges at 9:47 PM on December 9, 2022


I typically assume Biden, et al. benefits from dragging out the Ukraine war.

What an unpleasant thing to say. You understand it's Russia that invaded Ukraine? I mean in 2014. Also this year, the second time. You understand this war is entirely a choice that Putin and Russia have made?
posted by Nelson at 9:57 PM on December 9, 2022 [15 favorites]


This TikTok video makes some great points.
posted by interogative mood at 10:38 PM on December 9, 2022


What an unpleasant thing to say. You understand it's Russia that invaded Ukraine? I mean in 2014. Also this year, the second time. You understand this war is entirely a choice that Putin and Russia have made?

One of these days I'm gonna publish my findings on a particular pattern of thought. It's about Americans who think they are thinking in Realpolitik terms, cynical but realistic, no softies here. But which in practice turns out to be the belief that nothing whatsoever can happen in the world without America, everything must be referred to America and only America does things.
posted by Pyrogenesis at 11:48 PM on December 9, 2022 [6 favorites]


True, but he left behind not just Whelan, but also sixty one year teacher Marc Fogel who also had prescription cannabis and who's been in jail longer.

Yup. Not a single person on here except you has even mentioned Fogel, despite the fact that he was detained for the exact same offense as Griner. Unfortunately a random international schoolteacher isn't going to capture the public attention like a WNBA player - like you said, PR is everything apparently.
posted by photo guy at 12:40 AM on December 10, 2022 [1 favorite]


I hope Biden gets the credit he damn well deserves here. So many people calling for him to follow through, and castigating him for failing or forgetting or whatever, but ..... he delivered. Even well after it would have benefitted him or the election.

I read the politics of this in the opposite way. I assume Biden waited until after the midterms (and GA Senate runoff) to really push for this, because he didn’t want “Dems release ‘Merchant of Death’” in the headlines as people were voting.
posted by Pater Aletheias at 5:37 AM on December 10, 2022 [1 favorite]


Took about 24 hours for the so-called liberal media to turn a win into a loss. Blowback Over Griner’s Release Exposes Depth of America’s Divisions. In freeing Griner, Biden faced resistance abroad and at home. I suppose I shouldn't blame the reporters exactly, they are writing honestly about how a bunch of Americans aren't excited about a queer Black woman escaping a Russian gulag. And the NYT article does engage head-on with the hatred motivating a lot of the nastier right wing attacks on Griner's freedom. Just woke up already exhausted by so much of America's bigotry.

(BTW, Donald Trump had two full years to get Whelan home. Did we ever even hear his name in that time? Given Trump's special friendship with Putin you'd think he could have at least asked.)
posted by Nelson at 6:40 AM on December 10, 2022 [5 favorites]


Upon closer investigation Paul Whelan appears to be a con artist and actual criminal. His bad conduct discharge from the Marines is the tip of a huge iceberg of criminal activity. I suspect it will all come out in the next week or so.
posted by interogative mood at 11:19 AM on December 10, 2022 [1 favorite]


Maybe. Still doesn't deserve to be wrongfully detained in Russia.
posted by Nelson at 11:33 AM on December 10, 2022


It appears that Paul is more the victim of his lies and cons catching up to him. Is he wrongfully detained? It is complicated.

Allegedly Paul spent years making regular trips to Russia and playing ex-marine turned secret agent to get sex. From the beginning the Russians assigned a FSB agent to be his friend and keep tabs on him. He isn’t a spy though and thought this agent was his friend. Eventually Russian agent Maria Butina gets captured in the US. The Russians decide to round up an American for a trade and they trapped Paul. Paul isn’t a real spy; but he did try to buy secrets. He’s been pretending to be a spy. Worse for Paul the prosecutors in the US decide to take a plea deal for testimony from Butina so she gets only 10 months in jail. The Russians want to trade a spy for a spy and America doesn’t have one.

This is like a story from a Slow Horses Novel or a sequel to Burn After Reading.
posted by interogative mood at 1:06 PM on December 10, 2022 [1 favorite]


Is he wrongfully detained?

"Wrongfully detained" is a specific legal term and being declared wrongfully detained engenders diplomatic and legal support from the US government. It's not a term that means "some guy on the Internet read a few news articles and has an opinion".
posted by Nelson at 2:01 PM on December 10, 2022 [1 favorite]


Words and phrases have multiple meanings and context matters. In the context of a discussion where the right wing has been asserting that Britney Griner was deserving of punishment because drugs.
This isn’t a meeting at State Department full of lawyers of diplomats. This is an open discussion among people on the internet sharing their opinions. Therefore it should be obvious I’m not using the term “wrongfully detained” under its formal State Department definition. However given that definition and if the rumors on the internet are true then I think the State Department may need to reassess their findings in this regard. We can’t have Americans going around the world pretending to be spies and then having to trade them for real spies when they get caught.
posted by interogative mood at 2:52 PM on December 10, 2022 [1 favorite]


I was the one who first used the term "wrongfully detained". I used it as a term of art and then you responded to me repeating the phrase. As you say, context matters. I hope you understand now what I meant.

Perhaps you should write a letter to the State Department telling them what you've learned in doing your own research. But I'm pretty sure they know who's a spy working for the State Department and who isn't. At least, I imagine the Office of the Special Presidential Envoy for Hostage Affairs knows.

(Look, I'll drop the politesse. It's just breathtakingly arrogant to second-guess the State Department's assessment of a man's imprisonment in Russia based on a few public sources you read on the Internet. And then to respond to my expression of sympathy for him where I used precise legal language with futher speculation based on a misunderstanding of what my words meant. I think Whelan's story is fascinating too and it doesn't add up. But I think it's odious to speculate publically that a man being held in wrongful detention in Russia "appears to be a con artist and actual criminal".)
posted by Nelson at 3:27 PM on December 10, 2022 [3 favorites]


It isn’t speculation that he is apparently a con artist and criminal drawn from random internet sources. He was given a bad conduct discharge from the Marines following a court martial for identity theft and larceny. That’s been confirmed by the Washington Post and New York Times and records provided by Department of Defense. Those same newspapers have also reported that he lied in a deposition during a court case and to his employers about his military status, educational qualifications and professional experience / past jobs. Those are the actions of a con artist.
posted by interogative mood at 9:43 PM on December 10, 2022 [2 favorites]






That ESPN article is a really sweet, humanizing story.
Her father, Ray, and some family members visited her Saturday along with a sizable meal from Smoke Shack barbecue in San Antonio. More barbecue is expected in the coming days.
posted by Nelson at 7:51 AM on December 13, 2022 [1 favorite]


Brittney Griner thanks Biden administration, supporters in first public statement. Here's a link to her Instagram post. It's full of thank yous and the news she intends to play WNBA this season.
posted by Nelson at 2:57 PM on December 16, 2022 [2 favorites]


Thanks Nelson, archive link for The Grio as it’s not accessible in Europe (GDPR?).
posted by ellieBOA at 1:24 AM on December 17, 2022


She was a WNBA super agent. Then one of her clients became a political prisoner in Russia. [Oregon Live]
posted by ellieBOA at 3:54 PM on December 26, 2022 [1 favorite]


Cherelle Griner on Wife Brittney's Emotional Homecoming After Release from Russia: 'We're Holding on Tight' [People]
posted by ellieBOA at 9:44 AM on December 29, 2022 [1 favorite]


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