Bye Felicia

December 9, 2022 6:43 AM

Just three days after the reelection of Raphael Warnock gave Democrats a 51-49 advantage in the Senate, Arizona Senator Kyrsten Sinema today declared in an op-ed in the Arizona Republic that she is leaving the Democratic Party and registering as an Independent.

Sinema has stressed that this will not change the way she votes, and that she will not caucus with the Republicans. Public response has been... not great, with many suggesting this is a ploy to avoid being primaried in 2024.

posted by Ben Trismegistus (183 comments total)

In my opinion, this is a narcissistic ploy for attention, because Sinema realizes that her influence will be lessened in a 51-49 Senate. That said, things shouldn't change much in the short term -- Sinema will likely continue to caucus with Democrats because she doesn't want to lose her committee memberships.

The timing is just terrible though. Not just in the wake of celebrations of Dem victories, but to be the first openly bisexual Senator and to leave the party right after the Democrats secured protection for gay marriage is... not a great look.
posted by Ben Trismegistus at 6:45 AM on December 9, 2022 [55 favorites]

This should have the "USPolitics" tag.
posted by escape from the potato planet at 6:47 AM on December 9, 2022 [5 favorites]

Well, at least it's out in the open now that she's in it for number one.
posted by Tamanna at 6:48 AM on December 9, 2022 [47 favorites]

Good riddance to a notorious fifth column.
posted by mrjohnmuller at 6:48 AM on December 9, 2022 [21 favorites]

This should have the "USPolitics" tag.

Oops - thanks for the reminder! Added.
posted by Ben Trismegistus at 6:50 AM on December 9, 2022 [5 favorites]

Well of course she did. This way, she'll have more influence because they'll have to court her even harder to get her to vote with the party.
posted by Quasirandom at 6:58 AM on December 9, 2022 [8 favorites]

Great, she got Dem Party campaign $ and support and then turns around and does this. Seems hugely fraudulent to me, glad I'm not her constituent. I have feelings about this, bad, ugly feelings.
posted by theora55 at 6:59 AM on December 9, 2022 [21 favorites]

Everyone thinks they could be the next Marshal Tito. Let's see if she's got it in her.

(Reader, she doesn't)
posted by tigrrrlily at 7:00 AM on December 9, 2022 [9 favorites]

Everyone thinks they could be the next Marshal Tito.

I think she thinks she's the next John McCain. But what she fails to understand is that McCain bucked his party because of actual principled positions, not just for the sake of being contrary.
posted by Ben Trismegistus at 7:02 AM on December 9, 2022 [42 favorites]

Good fucking riddance. She knows she won’t survive the primary and her only chance is to fuck everyone over on the way out.
posted by Your Childhood Pet Rock at 7:03 AM on December 9, 2022 [24 favorites]

She took a look at how well Manchin (supposedly) profited from being the center of Democratic attention, and now wants her turn in the center ring.
posted by Thorzdad at 7:03 AM on December 9, 2022 [1 favorite]

I'm honestly surprised it took her this long to jump ship. I haven't looked at her record, but from the things she's said, I can't imagine that the dems are losing that much. As to her worrying that she'd be primaried, I think it's practically guaranteed that the dems will be throwing piles of cash at the next election for her seat. I suspect by that time, she'll have "Seen the light" and tucked herself safely under the republicans wing and made use of their huge piles of cash.
posted by evilDoug at 7:10 AM on December 9, 2022 [12 favorites]

I suspect by that time, she'll have "Seen the light" and tucked herself safely under the republicans wing and made use of their huge piles of cash.

We can only hope that happens. A Republican, a Democratic, and an independent caucusing Democratic in a three way race would be an electoral disaster.
posted by Your Childhood Pet Rock at 7:13 AM on December 9, 2022 [19 favorites]

I'm honestly surprised it took her this long to jump ship.

It seems pretty clear that she enjoyed the disproportionate influence she had while the senate majority was razor thin. As soon as Warnock won, she knew that her gravy train had gone off the tracks, so now she's switched gears to primary survival mode. She doesn't think the dems will be willing to run an opponent against her in '24 and risk handing AZ to the republicans. I think the dems should call her bluff.
posted by mrjohnmuller at 7:14 AM on December 9, 2022 [37 favorites]

What does this do to committee assignments and suchlike? Is she basically out in the cold at this point or what?
posted by jquinby at 7:16 AM on December 9, 2022

She will remain on committees as she has said she intends to caucus with Democrats.

This is a power play, and I hope a bad one for her.
posted by mcstayinskool at 7:18 AM on December 9, 2022 [11 favorites]

The timing is just terrible though. Not just in the wake of celebrations of Dem victories, but to be the first openly bisexual Senator and to leave the party right after the Democrats secured protection for gay marriage is... not a great look.

Hopefully this will encourage people to see members of the LGBTQ community as individuals, with all the same flaws and foibles as anyone else, and not assume too much about them or their political ethics or how they might behave.

Sinema likes to put on a show and be the center of attention. By posturing as an Independent she hopes to be courted by both Dems and the GOP.

This is not a great look for her.
posted by Ayn Marx at 7:22 AM on December 9, 2022 [32 favorites]

I haven't looked at her record, but from the things she's said, I can't imagine that the dems are losing that much.

Sinema is a reliable democratic vote on climate and gun control, but not great for things like corporate controls (including healthcare) and limiting lobbyist influence in D.C. Manchin is terrible on climate and gun control, pretty good on healthcare and such.

This doesn't really change how the Senate will operate, particularly because the House is Republican so it's not going to operate that well anyway. The filibuster's not going anywhere whether she stays D or not. Committees are the same, vote courting is pretty similar for the "moderates".

What will change is the AZ primary for the next senate run. A very likely possibility of this announcement is an epic shitshow that results in a Blake Masters or equivalent being your next AZ senator. The best hope is that she doesn't run for re-election, but it's pretty clear from this that ain't happening.
posted by mcstayinskool at 7:24 AM on December 9, 2022 [10 favorites]

If Schumer had an ounce of sense he'd be getting in front of this right now.

"We thank Senator Sinema for her generous offer to caucus with us but this transparent ploy to escape the accountability of the Democratic Party electorate of Arizona will not be entertained. We will be rejecting her from our caucus, stripping her of all Democratic positions and committee assignments, and moving her office to the sub basement."

But he won't do that. Because Democratic Party leaders are going to be Democratic Party leaders.
posted by Your Childhood Pet Rock at 7:26 AM on December 9, 2022 [35 favorites]

Arizona Senator, Mark Kelly, has an identical twin brother, Scott, who also was an astronaut. Just sayin'
posted by NoMich at 7:26 AM on December 9, 2022 [39 favorites]

Zero surprise here. She's trying to pull a McCain without the decades of groundwork that he put into his political credibility as a loyal-but-not-too-loyal party man.
posted by tclark at 7:31 AM on December 9, 2022 [6 favorites]

But he won't do that. Because Democratic Party leaders are going to be Democratic Party leaders.

Yes, because leadership means not cutting off your nose to spite your face, and the difference in power between 51-49 and 50-50-1 in the Senate is vast.
posted by NoxAeternum at 7:31 AM on December 9, 2022 [53 favorites]

None of this would have happened if Josh hadn’t threatened to leak that she was holding up the military promotions bill.
posted by Horace Rumpole at 7:32 AM on December 9, 2022 [6 favorites]

If Schumer had an ounce of sense he'd be getting in front of this right now.

"We thank Senator Sinema for her generous offer to caucus with us but this transparent ploy to escape the accountability of the Democratic Party electorate of Arizona will not be entertained. We will be rejecting her from our caucus, stripping her of all Democratic positions and committee assignments, and moving her office to the sub basement."

So the Senate Dems actually need her to vote for Speaker and Senate rules in the next session. The current 50-50 Congress includes a power sharing agreement that puts equal numbers of Ds and Rs on committees. Any nomination etc needs a Discharge Petition to leave committee if all the Rs vote against. With a 51-member caucus, Dems can put an additional Dem on each committee (ie don't need a power-sharing agreement) — and that means more judicial nominations, appointment confirmations, and all the rest.
posted by migrantology at 7:35 AM on December 9, 2022 [28 favorites]

Shorter Sinema: "hey everyone look at me! over here! you thought I was irrelevant with 51 senators but now I'm the center of attention again!"

This switch makes it harder to replace her in 2024. In a three way race between Sinema, a Democrat, and a Republican in Arizona the Republican will very likely win. And Arizona elects senators with a simple plurality, there's no runoff of the top two candidates to get to a 50% majority.
posted by Nelson at 7:37 AM on December 9, 2022 [9 favorites]

Yes, because leadership means not cutting off your nose to spite your face, and the difference in power between 51-49 and 50-50-1 in the Senate is vast.

Is it really? What can they do extra? It's almost entirely committee shenanigans. Was a 50-50 Senate really stopping the Democratic Party from going over Trump with a fine toothed comb? With a Republican House and legislation is going to come to a standstill. Short of Thomas having a coronary there's very little practical difference in the kind of agenda the Democratic Party is going to be able to push through. By not cutting her loose now they're trading an easier term during legislative gridlock for a way more difficult path in 2024.
posted by Your Childhood Pet Rock at 7:37 AM on December 9, 2022 [2 favorites]

I think she thinks she's the next John McCain.

It does her no good though because the McCain voters won't be enough to get her reelected. Not unless someone like Lake or Masters is also in the race and the McCain voters are trying to stop them again.

Sinema can't lean far enough right for the AZ GOP which is still heavily MAGA. The AZ Democrats will have to run an extremely bad candidate for her to pull enough of them and Independents and McCain voters to win as an Independent senator in AZ. Everyone sees completely through her now and no one trusts her. By showing her hand this early, she's given the state and national Dems more time to strategize for 2024. At worst they'll lose her seat to an R candidate but the chances of her getting reelected are slim.
posted by fuse theorem at 7:37 AM on December 9, 2022 [3 favorites]

I've already been talking up Ruben Gallego as much as possible locally ever since Sinema got elected in the first place; he's been my personal hope for primarying her. I hope he's interested in running.
posted by mixedmetaphors at 7:39 AM on December 9, 2022 [9 favorites]

Looking at pics of the press conference, I see this will not herald a new era of dressing like a grownup.

I'm sorry but what the fuck?

I just googled, maybe I'm looking at the wrong thing, but she's wearing a pink sweater? Is the lectern blocking a diaper and footy pajamas and I just don't see it?

Please let her be a piece of shit in peace independent of whatever your opinion is on The Most Moral Clothing Choice.
posted by phunniemee at 7:42 AM on December 9, 2022 [80 favorites]

Fuck that gal.
posted by Bella Donna at 7:43 AM on December 9, 2022 [5 favorites]

It's confirmed she's caucusing with Democrats still, which makes this a branding move.

During some of her obstructionism were rumors, anonymously sourced to people who knew/worked with her, that she simply thinks she is smarter than anyone else, her record as a brave independent will make her a viable presidential candidate. Apparently she's one of these graduated-college-at-age-18 people who continues to think they operate on a superior level to all their classmates.

We can only hope that happens. A Republican, a Democratic, and an independent caucusing Democratic in a three way race would be an electoral disaster.

The odds that she'll switch to Republican seem vanishingly small to me. She simply couldn't win a Republican primary; she has nothing to offer their base.

Her approval rating is in the mid-30s with both parties. It will certainly go down with Democrats after this, meaning she'll be more popular with Republicans. But not popular enough to nominate. Not clear to me what will happen if she runs--what's her pitch to Democratic voters if she's polling at 15% anyway? Might plummet to 5% in that case.

I guess the smart money is still that it hurts Democrats more, but if the Republicans are running an extremist again? Conceivable it doesn't matter.

Was a 50-50 Senate really stopping the Democratic Party from going over Trump with a fine toothed comb?

Yes. Committees were split 50/50, and Kamala Harris can't break ties in committees. So the ability to issue subpoenas or even advance nominees out of committee was severely hampered, often impossible (in the case of subpoenas) and long and convoluted (in the case of nominees with no Republican votes).
posted by mark k at 7:43 AM on December 9, 2022 [13 favorites]

Is it really? What can they do extra?

It's a ton of difference. At this point Congress does way more *apart* from passing legislation (e.g. appointments, oversight, appropriations) than in actually legislation. But it also makes a difference in certain rules around legislation, e.g. how amendments during vote-a-rama come up.

(Approps is legislative but a different process functionally, since NDAA always gets passed and because the Senate minority party has some leverage.)

On preview: mark k also brings up subpoenas, so those as well.
posted by migrantology at 7:45 AM on December 9, 2022 [8 favorites]

My first thought was “check her bank account,” but it sounds like her reasoning is even stupider and more self-serving than that.
posted by rpfields at 7:46 AM on December 9, 2022 [2 favorites]

It's the Democrats, they're not ever going to actually come through on a promise that involves directly paying or protecting you, the Democratic voter. If it wasn't Sinema, it would be Manchin or the filibuster or some arcane parliamentary process that can't be changed for reasons that nobody under the age of 92 understands.

Sinema is just more attention seeking (and less well connected) than her peers.
posted by kingdead at 7:46 AM on December 9, 2022 [7 favorites]

It's confirmed she's caucusing with Democrats still, which makes this a branding move.

So...about that:

Sinema says who she will caucus with is an "important question" but a "DC type of question"

Says again she expects to keep committee assignments - and thinks she can do that w/o necessarily caucusing with either party

That would be a unique arrangement.

posted by Glegrinof the Pig-Man at 7:46 AM on December 9, 2022 [5 favorites]

Is it really? What can they do extra? It's almost entirely committee shenanigans.

Yes? With a 50-50 split committee assignments are split equally, meaning Republicans can hold-up anything they want in committee and force a vote in the full chamber to discharge a bill, nominee, etc. from committee. (Not to mention it strips even more power from Turtle.)
posted by nathan_teske at 7:47 AM on December 9, 2022 [3 favorites]

This made me laugh out loud this morning.
posted by saladin at 7:47 AM on December 9, 2022 [17 favorites]

This switch makes it harder to replace her in 2024. In a three way race between Sinema, a Democrat, and a Republican in Arizona the Republican will very likely win. And Arizona elects senators with a simple plurality, there's no runoff of the top two candidates to get to a 50% majority.

I have been puzzling this out and agree that this is Sinema's play. But I'm not sure I agree that she has the leverage she thinks she does.

In a two-way race, Sinema is enormously underwater with Ds and independents: Sinema loses. So no disincentive for Dems to offer a Senate candidate.

In a three-way race, Sinema vs R vs D — well, three-way races are chaotic and hard to model on fundamentals. So probably the R wins, but either Sinema or the D could win. If Sinema keeps caucusing with the Dems, they have essentially two shots of three to keep the seat.

In a two-way race where Sinema fully switches to become a Republican ... well she's still 10 points underwater with indies and D voters will be motivated to come out by negative polarization. So Dems again would like their odds.
posted by migrantology at 7:51 AM on December 9, 2022 [2 favorites]

Yes? With a 50-50 split committee assignments are split equally, meaning Republicans can hold-up anything they want in committee and force a vote in the full chamber to discharge a bill, nominee, etc. from committee. (Not to mention it strips even more power from Turtle.)

Exactly. It's a lot of stuff that moves faster, but not impossible.

I still don't think what gets gained from having 51-49 is necessarily going to matter in the short term but I guess we're going to find out over the next 18 months. If Schumer doesn't fill literally every open judicial seat on the back of 51-49 being more efficient for getting nominees out of committee and we do lose the AZ senate seat in an ugly three way race I do reserve the right to say "fuck that idiot".
posted by Your Childhood Pet Rock at 7:53 AM on December 9, 2022 [2 favorites]

Sinema says who she will caucus with is an "important question" but a "DC type of question"

The source for her continuing to caucus with Democrats was her spokesman, as reported by Greg Sargent at the Post. Could be wrong, of course, but that's the sourcing. Not inconsistent with maverick-y bluster like "Oh, but I don't have to." Though admittedly could be wrong (meaning, the spokesman is wrong.)
posted by mark k at 7:56 AM on December 9, 2022 [2 favorites]

I think most people saw this coming. It's not actually a surprise
and part of her regular attempts to get attention like a neglected child.
posted by Chocomog at 7:58 AM on December 9, 2022 [4 favorites]

In a three-way race, Sinema vs R vs D

Fellow Southwestern moderate Evan McMullin didn't win even after the Democrat dropped out.

Sinema's chances might be better than his, but I don't know that they're a lot better.
posted by box at 7:59 AM on December 9, 2022 [6 favorites]

The source for her continuing to caucus with Democrats was her spokesman, as reported by Greg Sargent at the Post

What exact source re you thinking of? It helps if you can post links (there's even a little "link" button in the comment box.) I looked myself and the best I could find is this pair of tweets

A Sinema spokesperson tells me:

"She intends to maintain her committee assignments from the Democratic majority."

...

A Dem aide confirms this to me, saying Sinema notified Schumer yesterday that she'd continue to maintain committee assignments through Democrats.

This does not literally say she will continue to caucus with the Democrats. It says she intends to keep her committee seats, which might be aspirational.

Maybe in a few hours a reporter will write a proper insidery article explaining all this. Exactly what all "to caucus" implies. And how the Senate committee rules work and how the Democrats can work with Sinema to get a strict majority of committee assignments, not the 50/50 sharing they are doing now.
posted by Nelson at 8:05 AM on December 9, 2022 [1 favorite]

The 2024 election math seems simple to me. Sinema runs as an independent. Someone runs as a Republican, someone as a Democrat. The R pull 45% of the vote, the D gets 35%, and Sinema gets 20%. And the Republican wins. Arizona does not do majority runoffs elections for Senate; plurality takes the seat.

Sinema won't become Senator this way. But she will make the Democrats lose, which may satisfy her goal of feeding her ego. Then again a whole lot could change in the next two years.
posted by Nelson at 8:07 AM on December 9, 2022 [6 favorites]

One thing you can be sure of is that she did some quiet Arizona voter polling and whatever the results were, it tells her this is her best bet. No one with Senate-level money and resources, and, frankly, ambition, makes a move like this without polling data. Would be curious if any AZ MeFites got any unusual mailings or phone calls lately.
posted by martin q blank at 8:07 AM on December 9, 2022 [1 favorite]

I’m biased, of course, but … kinda seems like a good time to pass DC statehood and have a press conference where Schumer is like “Kyrsten who? Doesn’t ring a bell.” on the way to welcome Governor Bowser’s nominee.
posted by adamsc at 8:08 AM on December 9, 2022 [18 favorites]

WH press secretary Karine Jean-Pierre: “We understand that her decision to register as an independent in Arizona does not change the new Democratic majority control of the Senate, and we have every reason to expect that we will continue to work successfully with her.”
posted by box at 8:14 AM on December 9, 2022 [3 favorites]

The 2024 election math seems simple to me. Sinema runs as an independent. Someone runs as a Republican, someone as a Democrat. The R pull 45% of the vote, the D gets 35%, and Sinema gets 20%. And the Republican wins. Arizona does not do majority runoffs elections for Senate; plurality takes the seat.

Sinema won't become Senator this way. But she will make the Democrats lose, which may satisfy her goal of feeding her ego. Then again a whole lot could change in the next two years.

I am unclear why our prior should be that Sinema is trying to lose her next race?
posted by migrantology at 8:17 AM on December 9, 2022 [1 favorite]

Sinema will be a Fox News contributor
posted by glaucon at 8:21 AM on December 9, 2022 [31 favorites]

I think Sinema's calculus is that she's doomed in a Dem AZ primary because of her behavior in the Senate. I don't think it's great calculus, given a 3-way race would almost assuredly hand the seat to an R, but I guess if you're doomed staying pat isn't your best option?
posted by mcstayinskool at 8:23 AM on December 9, 2022 [2 favorites]

I am unclear why our prior should be that Sinema is trying to lose her next race?

It's not trying to lose. She can't win a Democratic primary. It was over for her the second she did that cute little thumbs down curtsey to raising the minimum wage. She's trying to gamble that she can force the AZ Democratic Party to clear the field for her as an independent or the seat most likely will go to a Republican.
posted by Your Childhood Pet Rock at 8:24 AM on December 9, 2022 [11 favorites]

Even if she doesn't run in 2024, becoming an independent allows her to get more interest for a book, a TV show, a talking head career, and so on. Just being a Democrat who has to quit before they lose to another Democrat for failing at being a Democrat (!) isn't a very interesting story.
posted by kingdead at 8:29 AM on December 9, 2022 [8 favorites]

The timing is just terrible though
Considering the President had specifically conditioned pushing for pro choice legislation on the Senate gaining two Democrats - and Pennsylvania delivered (Georgia strictly speaking being no change) - it doesn't help with those efforts. Mind you, Biden wasn't counting on her vote to counter a filibuster anyway.
posted by Flight Hardware, do not touch at 8:30 AM on December 9, 2022 [1 favorite]

I am unclear why our prior should be that Sinema is trying to lose her next race?

Like others have said, she's not trying to lose. She is going from a near-zero chance at winning a Democratic primary to a greater-than-zero chance of winning the general election as an independent -- perhaps quite high if the Dems don't run a candidate, more like low/medium if it is a three way race depending on who the other candidates are.

I think she had smarter options a while back of not totally pissing off the people who worked so hard to get her elected, but she made that choice and then doubled down on it, so that ship has sailed.
posted by Dip Flash at 8:30 AM on December 9, 2022 [7 favorites]

My first thought was “check her bank account,"

I'd look for campaign donations from Russians and adjacent. They have a history of fucking with elections and policy by way of Republicans.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 8:32 AM on December 9, 2022 [11 favorites]

Check Tulsi Gabbard’s bank account, too
posted by glaucon at 8:35 AM on December 9, 2022 [21 favorites]

perhaps quite high if the Dems don't run a candidate

I agree that this is the play. She knows that she will lose a Dem primary, and she knows that a three-way race will mean a Republican takes the seat. So she is going to try to convince Dem leadership not to run a Dem candidate in order to give the not-Republican a better chance at winning the seat.
posted by Ben Trismegistus at 8:41 AM on December 9, 2022 [6 favorites]

I would like to take a moment away from the politics of this news to praise the title that Ben Trismegistus selected for this post. Well done.
posted by ElKevbo at 8:47 AM on December 9, 2022 [9 favorites]

This is another reason why the USA's two party system need dissembled.
posted by NoThisIsPatrick at 8:47 AM on December 9, 2022 [2 favorites]

This is another reason why the USA's two party system need dissembled.

You get this sort of drama in multi-party democracies too.
posted by mark k at 8:52 AM on December 9, 2022 [12 favorites]

Like others have said, she's not trying to lose. She is going from a near-zero chance at winning a Democratic primary to a greater-than-zero chance of winning the general election as an independent

No, she isn't.

There will almost certainly be a Democratic candidate in her next election. The national Democratic Party can't really stop the state party from fielding one, and the state party hates her like poison. It's going to be pretty hard to stop someone who is motivated to oppose her from opposing her as a Democrat, because the argument against opposing her is that if nobody opposes her, at least she keeps a Republican out - except that argument obviously doesn't work, because Democrats in Arizona hate her. We're talking visceral hate here. In a purple state where turnout matters, Sinema is toast regardless of whether she has to face a Republican and a Democrat or just a Republican, because Democrats won't turn out in numbers enough to keep her in office in a two-way race and it's not really clear how she avoids coming in last, let alone wins in a three-way race.

If she wants to run again in 2024, this move is obvious, blatant attempted blackmail from the least powerful and most disliked former member of the Democratic caucus, and I don't think even Chuck Schumer is so wimpy as to let it work if only because the precedent would be horrible for Democratic Senate management going forward. Sinema is toast in 2024, and you can put your bets in on that proposition right now.

(It's really illustrative that Joe Manchin, who has caused more trouble for the Democrats these past two years than Sinema has, has never tried to pull this off despite the fact that there's a reasonable argument that he might have better chance at re-election as an independent.)

The likely reasoning for this move is branding for a future career in punditry/corporate boards or possibly a third-party No Labels presidential campaign in 2024 or 2028. Yes, I know how stupid the latter sounds, but you have to remember that Sinema is extremely stupid.
posted by mightygodking at 8:52 AM on December 9, 2022 [22 favorites]

Looking at pics of the press conference, I see this will not herald a new era of dressing like a grownup.

LOL the only cool thing about her is how she dresses
posted by latkes at 8:58 AM on December 9, 2022 [11 favorites]

The post title is queerphobic and I'm pretty upset the post is even still up. Sinema is shitty for so many reasons, don't bring her sexuality into this discussion. We're being attacked on all fronts in the US, all the time. We just had a shooting in Colorado Springs and a lot of us are still grieving pretty hard. Your desire to be clever does not trump being a decent human being.

Thank you phunniemee for calling out the similarly shitty comment about her wardrobe.
posted by curious nu at 9:00 AM on December 9, 2022 [26 favorites]

@LPDonovan: If you're being run out of town, get out in front of the crowd and make it look like a parade.
posted by Going To Maine at 9:03 AM on December 9, 2022 [11 favorites]

Arizona's state legislature is controlled by Republicans, right? Shame they couldn't try to push through ranked-choice voting in the next two years. A closely divided state like Arizona would benefit from that.
posted by Ben Trismegistus at 9:03 AM on December 9, 2022 [1 favorite]

The post title is queerphobic and I'm pretty upset the post is even still up. Sinema is shitty for so many reasons, don't bring her sexuality into this discussion. We're being attacked on all fronts in the US, all the time. We just had a shooting in Colorado Springs and a lot of us are still grieving pretty hard. Your desire to be clever does not trump being a decent human being.

I don't want to derail the conversation, but I disagree that simply using the word "bi" in the title (as part of a pun) is queerphobic. In any event, it was not my intention to offend or upset anyone, and I apologize.
posted by Ben Trismegistus at 9:07 AM on December 9, 2022 [9 favorites]

I disagree that simply using the word "bi" in the title (as part of a pun) is queerphobic.

Can you explain the joke or pun you're making without referring to her sexuality? If not, it's probably queerphobic.
posted by LionIndex at 9:12 AM on December 9, 2022 [2 favorites]

(Bye Felicia means get the hell out of here, annoying person, right? How is calling her bi in reference to being annoying not queerphobic? I'm cis but I sure see it.)
posted by tiny frying pan at 9:13 AM on December 9, 2022 [2 favorites]

There are two words in the post title. One of them is slang for bisexuality, which Sinema is. It's not a derail, you made a choice and you made it part of the conversation, and made it part of how you're mocking her. It's queerphobic.
posted by curious nu at 9:14 AM on December 9, 2022 [5 favorites]

I'm bi, and I don't find the post or the title biphobic at all. Chill, people, please, and let's get back to the interesting commentary. Thanks in advance.
posted by paperpete at 9:20 AM on December 9, 2022 [18 favorites]

Please let her be a piece of shit in peace independent of whatever your opinion is on The Most Moral Clothing Choice.

maybe a bit defensive. it's all of a part, her Blazing Narcissist costume to match her behavior.
posted by j_curiouser at 9:23 AM on December 9, 2022 [5 favorites]

My local state rep changed parties after an election. It tanked her career. People were enraged. I feel for those in AZ who thought “well at least she’s a damn Democrat even if she’s terrible” and now don’t even have that.
posted by kerf at 9:27 AM on December 9, 2022 [2 favorites]

(yeah, as a bi, i thought the title was pretty fitting, although it suffers from the lack of a joke about her switching teams.)
posted by mittens at 9:28 AM on December 9, 2022 [26 favorites]

maybe a bit defensive. it's all of a part, her Blazing Narcissist costume to match her behavior.

Wow super cool thanks.

Here's my hot take: if you can't critique a femme coded person (who sucks, on so many levels, like are you even trying) without bringing up their appearance, you're a misogynist. I have no room in my life anymore to find a gray area there. It's boring. You're boring. Boring and lazy and sexist.
posted by phunniemee at 9:28 AM on December 9, 2022 [13 favorites]

After she voted against raising the minimum wage and caught hell for it, Sinema took an infamous selfie wearing a ring that said "Fuck off." I think there's a fair argument to be made that her clothing choices are communicative and relevant.
posted by wiremommy at 9:29 AM on December 9, 2022 [20 favorites]

I can’t imagine that she’s going for any kind of career longevity at this point. Sinema strikes me as a saboteur, and a highly performative one at that. Job well done. Anything more than mildly progressive gets kneecapped.

Not to let Manchin off the hook because it only takes one these days, doesn’t it?
posted by Eikonaut at 9:36 AM on December 9, 2022 [2 favorites]

She knows she's toast in '24, so she's trying to start a bribery bidding war to make her last two years in the Senate as lucrative as possible.
posted by vibrotronica at 9:40 AM on December 9, 2022 [2 favorites]

Mod note: Title changed. Please let's go back to the actual subject.
posted by loup (staff) at 9:49 AM on December 9, 2022 [19 favorites]

Queer AFAB person here - I know we're in metatalk territory but I feel like this conversation is made more interesting by surfacing the threads of sexism, critiques of sexism, biphobia, critiques of biphobia in the discussion. I would rather not just delete. That's my own preference.

For me the comment about her Fuck You ring is a good example that is a counter-narrative to the one I basically agree with - that critiques of powerful women's clothing is necessarily infused with misogyny. So like, I think it's good for us to talk about this and share different perspectives and the existance of those perspectives doesn't make them correct or harmful to me.

Sinema is interesting because of her identity categories and we need tools to think about power in relationship to identity categories in the context of a current politics where identity is sometimes weaponized to justify policies that cause material harm to people with the same identities as the people utilizing those identities to maintain their power.

My two cents.
posted by latkes at 9:52 AM on December 9, 2022 [31 favorites]

I think there's a fair argument to be made that her clothing choices are communicative and relevant.

There's a difference between wearing clothing with actual words on it, and wearing a sweater that maybe someone thinks is a little gauche.

Seriously, women are scrutinized so intensely for their appearances. Political women, especially, are mocked to hell and back. Conservatives will often just own it, but progressives have to manage their cognitive dissonance, so they come up with justifications for why it's okay to mock this woman, this time.

No one's denying that clothing has meaning, but the general public has shown that is sure as hell not qualified to determine what that meaning is, or to discuss it in a non-sexist manner. So yes, some women are going to be "defensive" when discussions about a female politician turns, yet again, to mocking how she looks. It's not just Sinema who suffers here.
posted by Kutsuwamushi at 9:54 AM on December 9, 2022 [25 favorites]

It's not just Sinema who suffers here.

As is often said, Kyrsten Sinema is never going to read your one-liner about how her clothes render her fundamentally unserious. But plenty of other women now know exactly what you think of them if they dare to step out of your Box Of Acceptable Attire.
posted by Etrigan at 10:02 AM on December 9, 2022 [39 favorites]

from scathing statement from AZ Dem Rep Grijalva: "With Senator Warnock’s re-election, Kyrsten Sinema’s ability to be the center of the political universe has ended within the Democratic Party...callled it "predictable outcome" & "disappointing" but wont change balance of power
posted by Ben Trismegistus at 10:07 AM on December 9, 2022 [5 favorites]

I have severe doubts as to her ability to secure significant votes, presidentially or as a third party candidate, when she cannot show her face to her constituents.
posted by Artw at 10:12 AM on December 9, 2022 [3 favorites]

Benedict Sinema
posted by y2karl at 10:22 AM on December 9, 2022 [1 favorite]

Tressie McMillan Cottom on Sinema's clothing choices and on discussing them.
posted by brainwane at 10:25 AM on December 9, 2022 [13 favorites]

I don't know, Sinema gets millions of dollars and the power to really fuck up lots of people's lives by going against her supposed duties as a representative, and all I get is the righteous feeling of never having made fun of her dress? Seems unfair! But what do I know?

(I did actually do some phone canvassing in Arizona and a surprising number of people were sympathetic just on the grounds that I was offering them a chance to yell at Sinema to do something. Specifically Sinema, nobody really had a problem with Kelly. Sinema, genius that she is, was one step ahead of us and simply never cleaned out her phone mailboxes, so if you ever had an issue of any type that you wanted to contact your senator about you were SOL.)
posted by kingdead at 10:26 AM on December 9, 2022 [4 favorites]

I've already been talking up Ruben Gallego as much as possible locally ever since Sinema got elected in the first place; he's been my personal hope for primarying her. I hope he's interested in running.

He sure has been fundraising on Facebook for a Senate run for sometime now. Can't imagine he won't declare after this.
posted by briank at 10:36 AM on December 9, 2022

He sure has been fundraising on Facebook for a Senate run for sometime now. Can't imagine he won't declare after this.

Yeah, he's been trying to clear the field to be the only serious primary challenger ever since she started playing up her role as the Voice Of Reason in a 50-50-1 Senate. Now he gets to do it without even looking like he's knifing her.
posted by Etrigan at 10:39 AM on December 9, 2022 [2 favorites]

Bye Felicia?

As long as dems need her vote, she's going to be just as annoying as before. Maybe even more. I wish she would just go away too, but this isn't going away. This is planting a flag in the middle of the senate.
posted by adept256 at 10:41 AM on December 9, 2022

Gallego's statement:

“Last month, the voters of Arizona made their voices heard loud and clear — they want leaders who put the people of Arizona first. We need Senators who will put Arizonans ahead of big drug companies and Wall Street bankers,” Gallego, who is thought to be a 2024 Senate hopeful, said in a statement.

“Whether in the Marine Corps or in Congress, I have never backed down from fighting for Arizonans. And at a time when our nation needs leadership most, Arizona deserves a voice that won’t back down in the face of struggle,” Gallego continued. “Unfortunately Senator Sinema is once again putting her own interests ahead of getting things done for Arizonans.”

And even more harshly, from the Arizona Democratic Party (same link):

“Senator Sinema may now be registered as an Independent, but she has shown she answers to corporations and billionaires, not Arizonans,” the party continued. “[Her] party registration means nothing if she continues to not listen to her constituents.”

posted by Ben Trismegistus at 10:45 AM on December 9, 2022 [12 favorites]

She's trying to gamble that she can force the AZ Democratic Party to clear the field for her as an independent or the seat most likely will go to a Republican.

The AZ Dems just won hard fought battles for the governorship, the secretary of state, and the other US senator. They're not going go to lie down for Sinema, especially since she can't be trusted to keep her word. She didn't even bother to campaign for any AZ Democratic candidates in this last election and has only issued political spots praising herself.

I'd look for campaign donations from Russians and adjacent.

And whoever was primarily financing Master's campaign. I'd be surprised if he doesn't run again now that he's got so much more name recognition.
posted by fuse theorem at 10:52 AM on December 9, 2022 [6 favorites]

To follow up on branewane's link, here's another (archive link) by McMillan Cottom that deals in part with the reaction to her first piece.
posted by idb at 10:54 AM on December 9, 2022 [7 favorites]

The Gray and the Pink by Robin Givan (WaPo).
posted by nanook at 10:58 AM on December 9, 2022

She didn't even bother to campaign for any AZ Democratic candidates in this last election and has only issued political spots praising herself.

Yeah. I received an ad for her in the mail, during the election season. Didn't mention anything any the election or any other politicians, just "look at all the great stuff I've done!" It was so weird and did absolutely nothing to make me like her more.
posted by meese at 11:10 AM on December 9, 2022

There's been a lot of discussion about committee assignments but unless she caucuses with the Republicans, does this actually matter? The Dems would still have a 50-49 advantage.
posted by nolnacs at 11:18 AM on December 9, 2022

My hope is that Schumer sees through this, used her vote to solidify the process questions at the beginning of the next Congress then strips her of committee assignments and endorses her primary challenger.

I know, tall order, but I can have dreams
posted by thebotanyofsouls at 11:25 AM on December 9, 2022 [7 favorites]

Sinema has stressed that this will not change the way she votes, and that she will not caucus with the Republicans

Which makes it an even weirder thing to tell everyone. Reminds me when a company buys another and the second company's CEO says 'nothing is changing!' and then 6-9 months later it's all been changed.
posted by 922257033c4a0f3cecdbd819a46d626999d1af4a at 11:26 AM on December 9, 2022 [13 favorites]

And whoever was primarily financing Master's campaign.

Entirely Peter Theil.
posted by Artw at 11:33 AM on December 9, 2022 [3 favorites]

More on that.
posted by Artw at 11:40 AM on December 9, 2022 [6 favorites]

To follow up on branewane's link, here's another (archive link) by McMillan Cottom that deals in part with the reaction to her first piece.
posted by idb at 10:54 AM on December 9 [2 favorites −] Favorite added! [!]

This is good:

Bisexuality is a marginalized identity, but the progressiveness associated with it, in other contexts, is a political asset. “This sort of presenting herself as someone who crosses and violates norms gives her kind of radical credentials while she undermines progressive aims,” Maxine told me. “The coolness that comes with being bisexual and the coolness with embracing sexuality and performing it with her clothes can create this perception that she’s down with the people. Being progressive on this one dimension of sexuality provides cover for her general political stance.”
posted by latkes at 11:47 AM on December 9, 2022 [26 favorites]

She's a festering piece of garbage who ran as an explicit progressive and then immediately turned around and became the worst sort of CorpaDem. I don't give a shit who she fucks or what she wears or even if she leaves the party. She should be treated as a toxic narcissist deserves, which is to be ignored completely. She's not going to run again: she's going to take that sweet Tulsi Gabbard money and attention and be That Awful Person on Fox "News" for a few years, shaking her head sadly and saying "See? This is where the Dems went wrong", so Boomers and alt-right jackasses have something to point at. Fuck her.
posted by outgrown_hobnail at 12:24 PM on December 9, 2022 [26 favorites]

She didn't even bother to campaign for any AZ Democratic candidates in this last election

If she's been regarded as toxic by even her own (now-former) state Democratic organization, I imagine that any 'help' she might have offered would have been politely but quite swiftly and emphatically declined.
posted by hangashore at 12:30 PM on December 9, 2022 [1 favorite]

I don't know, Sinema gets millions of dollars and the power to really fuck up lots of people's lives by going against her supposed duties as a representative, and all I get is the righteous feeling of never having made fun of her dress? Seems unfair! But what do I know?

All that you and the rest of us get is your kindness of making the noise of our culture's misogyny a tiny bit quieter instead of a tiny bit louder. I don't think anybody here is objecting to making fun of how women dress because they care about Sinema's feelings.
posted by straight at 12:35 PM on December 9, 2022 [17 favorites]

But what she fails to understand is that McCain bucked his party because of actual principled positions, not just for the sake of being contrary.

Eh, it was both. McCain, like many senators, was a bit of a self-important diva.

But Sinema is definitely next-level in that department.
posted by Artifice_Eternity at 1:03 PM on December 9, 2022 [5 favorites]

While we’re talking about signaling and posturing, Green Party membership sure is a hell of a predictive indicator that someone’s going to turn out to be shady, isn’t it?
posted by Artw at 1:07 PM on December 9, 2022 [19 favorites]

I actually do care about Sinema's feelings, insofar as I want her to know she's disliked because of her actions, and not because of her gender or sexuality. I mean, this is pretty far down on the list of things that I care about, but I don't think that bigotry is anyone's just deserts, and I also like to give terrible people as little of a shield as possible.

I can't/won't read the NYTimes piece, but what I'm getting from the discussion here is: The way she dresses reflects her identity or an identity she wants to project, and that makes it worth discussing.

Sure, fine, I have quibbles but I'm on board if I'm with people I trust to discuss it maturely. This does the opposite of justifying mockery, though. That argument makes explicit that we're not just mocking Sinema's fashion sense, but the way in which she uses clothing to signify her identity, and even more directly mocking people who signify their identity in a similar way.

And yes, I hesitated over continuing to talk about her clothes at all, but I do think that keeping this kind of low-level misogyny out of progressive spaces is important.
posted by Kutsuwamushi at 1:15 PM on December 9, 2022 [1 favorite]

I still don't think what gets gained from having 51-49 is necessarily going to matter in the short term but I guess we're going to find out over the next 18 months. If Schumer doesn't fill literally every open judicial seat on the back of 51-49 being more efficient for getting nominees out of committee and we do lose the AZ senate seat in an ugly three way race I do reserve the right to say "fuck that idiot".

Schumer and Biden have already been appointing federal judges at an extremely rapid pace. They'll be able to do it even faster in a 51-49 Senate.
posted by Artifice_Eternity at 1:27 PM on December 9, 2022 [8 favorites]

If Schumer had an ounce of sense he'd be getting in front of this right now.

"We thank Senator Sinema for her generous offer to caucus with us but this transparent ploy to escape the accountability of the Democratic Party electorate of Arizona will not be entertained. We will be rejecting her from our caucus, stripping her of all Democratic positions and committee assignments, and moving her office to the sub basement."

But he won't do that. Because Democratic Party leaders are going to be Democratic Party leaders.

Schumer has quite a bit more than an ounce of sense. You don't generally get to be Senate majority leader without it. He understands that getting s#!% done is more important than performative vengeance... which is why he said this:

“She asked me to keep her committee assignments and I agreed,” Mr. Schumer said in a statement late Friday morning. “Kyrsten is independent, that’s how she’s always been. I believe she’s a good and effective senator and am looking forward to a productive session in the new Democratic majority Senate.”

“We will maintain our new majority on committees, exercise our subpoena power and be able to clear nominees without discharge votes,” he added.

posted by Artifice_Eternity at 1:34 PM on December 9, 2022 [12 favorites]

That said, I'm as disgusted as anyone by Sinema. I guess we should have figured that this galaxy brain snowflake would do something right about now to pull the spotlight back onto her.
posted by Artifice_Eternity at 1:35 PM on December 9, 2022 [3 favorites]

I know the practical answer is "Schumer won't do it", but is there a PROCEDURAL reason why they couldn't play along with Senima until she votes to give the Democrats a full majority then boot her off all committees and tell her to fuck off?
posted by sotonohito at 1:37 PM on December 9, 2022

I admit it just bugs me when grown-ups act, talk, and dress in self-infantilizing ways in the professional sphere, especially elected officials.

In fairness though, dress is by far the least disruptive of the three, so I’ll try to focus on the fact that Sinema is far guiltier of the other two.

Maybe Manchin could wear a little propeller hat and carry around a big lollipop with a bow on it. Just for truth-in-advertising purposes, you know?
posted by armeowda at 1:40 PM on December 9, 2022 [9 favorites]

It's super weird seeing folks equate queerness with being progressive. On a surface level, I get it; there is one party in particular trying actively to shove us back in the closet, or worse. But you also have visibly queer public figures who are also very conservative; they're just either selective on what they're conservative about, or they're the sort who want to pull the ladder up behind them (and as a trans woman, I am all too aware of one public figure in particular who has proven this point).

I guess what makes Sinema's case particularly galling is she does have a progressive history and did make progressive noises right up until she thumbs-downed raising the minimum wage. That I get. I've just stopped being surprised, long ago, when someone of a marginalised sexual orientation or gender identity turns out to also have awful politics.
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 1:42 PM on December 9, 2022 [23 favorites]

Please let her be a piece of shit in peace independent of whatever your opinion is on The Most Moral Clothing Choice.

You see how everyone else in that picture, man or woman, is wearing professional clothing? Meanwhile, she's in a sweatshirt. Call me super-old-fashioned, but I think if you're turning up to represent your state at the highest level of the federal government, you can wear business clothing. I don't give a shit what she wears in her off hours. She isn't too poor to afford the clothing, she's not wearing an outfit or items that are respectful in her own culture even if not to white U.S. people, she's not suffering from some disorder that makes it challenging for her to decode clothing codes. I just think a U.S. senator should wear a suit at formal state events, out of respect to the institution and to the people she's representing.
posted by praemunire at 1:45 PM on December 9, 2022 [12 favorites]

I’m biased, of course, but … kinda seems like a good time to pass DC statehood and have a press conference where Schumer is like “Kyrsten who? Doesn’t ring a bell.” on the way to welcome Governor Bowser’s nominee.

Pass D.C. statehood with whose votes, exactly? In the current lame duck session, you'd need Sinema's vote for this.

You'd also need 10 additional votes, of course, to avoid a GOP filibuster. So it won't happen.
posted by Artifice_Eternity at 1:46 PM on December 9, 2022 [5 favorites]

I’m going to reserve any extra disappointment at Dems being Dems for if they fail to run anyone against her.
posted by Artw at 2:22 PM on December 9, 2022 [2 favorites]

out of respect to the institution and to the people she's representing.

I have terrible news for you.
posted by mittens at 2:27 PM on December 9, 2022 [11 favorites]

From a friend: "What's the lowest-level Cabinet position Biden could appoint her to that she would take?" Once the new Dem governor is in place in AZ, Biden could do that and then the governor could appoint an actual Dem as replacement.
posted by outgrown_hobnail at 2:44 PM on December 9, 2022 [15 favorites]

I admit it just bugs me when grown-ups act, talk, and dress in self-infantilizing ways in the professional sphere, especially elected officials.

and

Call me super-old-fashioned, but I think if you're turning up to represent your state at the highest level of the federal government, you can wear business clothing. I don't give a shit what she wears in her off hours. She isn't too poor to afford the clothing, she's not wearing an outfit or items that are respectful in her own culture even if not to white U.S. people, she's not suffering from some disorder that makes it challenging for her to decode clothing codes. I just think a U.S. senator should wear a suit at formal state events, out of respect to the institution and to the people she's representing.

I am right there with you both.
posted by jgirl at 2:59 PM on December 9, 2022 [2 favorites]

I don't give a shit what she wears in her off hours

I'd respectfully disagree, to some extent. I'd go as far as to suggest that any sitting senator, having the privilege of being only one of 100 people in the United States with incredible powers over everyone else, is usually on the clock, even when they are "not on the clock". For better or worse, that expectation goes with the job, and it should, and if that person can't manage a bare minimum level of professionalism, they really should find another line of work.

Sinema making a literal and positive statement to constituents as well as the rest of the US population that they can go fuck themselves in her "off hours" seems not so much off-hour commentary, when considered against the larger context of her corporate advocacy against fair wages, which is a similar "fuck off" in a quieter way. I don't particularly care much how this particular behavior gets excused away or laughed off.

Same goes for other high-level government officials, male or female. Cretins like Nikki Haley complain about being on the clock on a federal holiday, when North Korea might do something to spark a nuclear war. This isn't about FOX nazis dog-whistling about Obama wearing a tan suit, but about existential matters that impact people's ability to pay rent or avoid living in a fallout shelter. These folks should learn to take the job seriously.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 3:01 PM on December 9, 2022 [2 favorites]

Don Hughes: I think some of the negative energy directed at Kyrsten Sinema's fashion choices is from blue checks that really want to join in on the drag queen story hour hate parade sort of anti-LGBT "weirdos" stuff but still want to be able to say "gurrrl" to their gay coworker on Slack
posted by Apocryphon at 3:04 PM on December 9, 2022 [2 favorites]

I know the practical answer is "Schumer won't do it", but is there a PROCEDURAL reason why they couldn't play along with Sinema until she votes to give the Democrats a full majority then boot her off all committees and tell her to fuck off?

Because Dianne Feinstein wakes up every morning and howls YOUUUUU SHALL NEVER REACH THE NECRONOMICON at her bathroom mirror, for one.

With Sinema being difficult and noncommittal, 51-49 becomes 50-49 with one undecided. If Feinstein passes away or resigns (something that is VERY MUCH nonzero during her term) or if something unrelated causes a different Dem to be unavailable, suddenly that's 49-49 with one undecided until a replacement Dem takes the empty seat. And I will stress that it is nonzero, however unlikely, for Sinema to then respond to being told to fuck off by saying "Fine. I will join Susan Collins and Lisa Murkowski in the Principled Republican Senators Who Are Moderates Club" and making that 49-50 and shutting down every fucking thing.

Fetterman gives the Dems some breathing room. But Sinema's maneuver and obstinance give her some remaining weight, and she knows it.
posted by delfin at 3:05 PM on December 9, 2022 [10 favorites]

Call me super-old-fashioned, but I think if you're turning up to represent your state at the highest level of the federal government, you can wear business clothing. I don't give a shit what she wears in her off hours. She isn't too poor to afford the clothing, she's not wearing an outfit or items that are respectful in her own culture even if not to white U.S. people, she's not suffering from some disorder that makes it challenging for her to decode clothing codes. I just think a U.S. senator should wear a suit at formal state events, out of respect to the institution and to the people she's representing.

Maybe this is because I live and work in an extremely informal west coast environment, but to me all the suits don't look professional, they look stuffy and yes, old fashioned. I virtually never interact with someone wearing a suit, except when checking in at more expensive chain hotels. (The expensive boutique hotels tend to dress more hipster instead of suits, and I like that better.) I wish they would all dress with more personality instead of those dull uniforms.

I despise Sinema politically, but I like that she deliberately goes against the grain this way and makes it work for her.
posted by Dip Flash at 3:17 PM on December 9, 2022 [3 favorites]

This discussion of like, the dignity of the office and how that relates to clothes is interesting! I for sure wildly disagree with the idea that senators should dress a certain way, and find that line of thinking to be fed by streams that may be obscured from our understanding.. WHY do we see certain clothes as 'dignified' and appropriate? All of that has huge cultural baggage and intersects with hierarchies of sexuality, race, gender, etc. Not here to accuse people of bad intent - but to say this line of thinking is worth interrogating in ourselves.
posted by latkes at 3:20 PM on December 9, 2022 [14 favorites]

It's funny how any particular woman somehow manages to be at the exact level of importance where it's appropriate to police her clothing choices, her voice, her weight, her her her...
posted by Etrigan at 3:27 PM on December 9, 2022 [8 favorites]

This discussion of her clothing choices really has me wondering if Fetterman is going to continue wearing his black hoodie and shorts combo to DC and if endless hours of discussion will be spent on it
posted by SystematicAbuse at 3:28 PM on December 9, 2022 [29 favorites]

You see how everyone else in that picture, man or woman, is wearing professional clothing? Meanwhile, she's in a sweatshirt.

I still, again, do not know which photos you're referring to but the one I have seen most often in reference to today's action has been of her in a pink and purple sweater--sweater--and pink glasses. I've searched and searched and can't find any of her bottom half anywhere, so I don't know what she's paired this with. Sweaters are nice. They can be literally hundreds of dollars. If you can't tell the difference between a sweater and a sweatshirt that's on you. Most importantly, her fucking sweater isn't the one voting. For christ sakes.
posted by phunniemee at 3:30 PM on December 9, 2022 [7 favorites]

I will note that Senatorial age is not just a Feinstein problem, though she is visibly the most unstable. Sanders is 80 and had heart issues during his campaign, Cardin and King are 75+, and Vermont managed to replace an 82-year-old Leahy with a spry young upstart of 75 in Welch. Grassley, Shelby, Inhofe, McConnell, Risch and others on the R side are in a similar age bracket.

It's not to suggest that all or even one of them will keel over during this Congress. It's to suggest that personnel changes in Congress -- vacancies, resignations, medical emergencies, unexpected events -- are well within the realm of probability for the near future. Not everyone will be available for every vote. And when even a small shift can have drastic consequences, along with the fact that Manchin and Sinema remain unreliable Democratic votes on their pet issues, Schumer still needs every body he can corral onto his side.

I don't care what she wears. I care what she does, and what she's capable of doing. And someone with the power to destroy something knows that they share control over it.
posted by delfin at 3:33 PM on December 9, 2022 [5 favorites]

Fetterman wore a suit for his first day (not that I give a shit, but it appears to be off the rack, which might be its own challenge when you're 6'9"). It was news in the politics/fashion world, but the story didn't really make it big.

(Gisele Fetterman wore a black leather jacket and a $12 thrifted dress.)
posted by box at 3:40 PM on December 9, 2022 [7 favorites]

"The form-fitting dresses and retro color palette that Sinema favors are a way of broadcasting her bona fides as a middle-class politician and thus someone in step with middle-class values. One might laugh at how literal this sounds as political stagecraft, but consider that almost all people in this country think of themselves as middle class, regardless of how much (or little) money they have. It is our cultural default, and we see it as normative.

[...]

"Sinema’s presentation reads like “someone who’s got a catalog budget but is trying to imagine what that high-end editorial looks like, someone who aspires to be cool and edgy.” One dimension of class in Sinema’s sartorial performance is that it is basic but aspirational, not in power, but in coolness."
posted by jgirl at 3:41 PM on December 9, 2022 [5 favorites]

This discussion of her clothing choices really has me wondering if Fetterman is going to continue wearing his black hoodie and shorts combo to DC and if endless hours of discussion will be spent on it

Imagine if the Democratic party became the party of people wearing normal-people clothes; might at least make the hypocrisy of Republican elites-bashing more visual.

I wish politicians would/could wear cheap, plain clothes. That's not disrespect; that's respect for the fact that way too many of us can't afford expensive, gatekeeping, "professional" clothes. (Or, you know, populist signalling, but again it should be Democrats claiming that field.)
posted by trig at 3:44 PM on December 9, 2022 [6 favorites]

A politician's version of cheap, plain clothes is, like, a polo or Oxford-cloth shirt (with the sleeves rolled up a turn or two) over khakis or jeans, possibly with a fleece jacket or vest.

If I wanted to see that, I could just go to Lowe's on a weekend.
posted by box at 3:52 PM on December 9, 2022 [2 favorites]

What's the lowest-level Cabinet position Biden could appoint her to that she would take?

Really, The White House and The Chuck are meh at this move no matter the rationale.
Why would one take a worse job with a possible 2 year life span? The president has to suggest to the new Arizona governor that "were gonna cement in a true Dem, right".
Don't give that ammo to the clown branch.

WH Communications did its job on the "don't complain, don't explain" pivot.
posted by clavdivs at 3:54 PM on December 9, 2022

Is VP a cabinet position
posted by Apocryphon at 3:59 PM on December 9, 2022

A politician's version of cheap, plain clothes is, like, a polo or Oxford-cloth shirt (with the sleeves rolled up a turn or two) over khakis or jeans, possibly with a fleece jacket or vest.

If I wanted to see that, I could just go to Lowe's on a weekend.

Where do you live that people dress that nice for a trip to Lowes?
posted by Dip Flash at 4:00 PM on December 9, 2022 [8 favorites]

A politician's version of cheap, plain clothes is, like

Disrespectful of the position, of the office, of the constituents. What a child. What a narcissist. What a performance of middle class.
posted by phunniemee at 4:02 PM on December 9, 2022 [2 favorites]

I fully give Kirsten Sinema permission to wear mittens and a coat if she has to wait around in the cold.
posted by Artw at 4:08 PM on December 9, 2022 [5 favorites]

This is so cynical, so predictable, and so dumb at the same time, for arguments that everyone has pointed out upthread.

I do see a path forward for Ruben Gallegos that involves Sinema peeling off all but the hardcore MAGA types from the R wing (unlikely), and then Gallegos getting most of the D vote here and eking out a win.

To the people asking about ranked choice voting, why would the R legislature do that? They can do nothing and get an R senator on the next cycle. Having corresponded with my local state house rep, I can say for certain that's what they're thinking.
posted by thebotanyofsouls at 4:09 PM on December 9, 2022 [1 favorite]

All the talk about what the middle-class politician wears reminds me of a speech that was old when I was a kid wherein Richard Nixon talked about his wife's "respectable Republican cloth coat". Political signaling through fashion and dress (of women mostly, of course, insert eyeroll) has a long and storied history.
posted by gentlyepigrams at 4:41 PM on December 9, 2022 [4 favorites]

From a friend: "What's the lowest-level Cabinet position Biden could appoint her to that she would take?"

It would have to be an agency that he was OK with being totally mismanaged by a flaky egomaniac.

I'm OK with him continuing to appoint smart, competent, low-key cabinet members instead.
posted by Artifice_Eternity at 4:48 PM on December 9, 2022 [4 favorites]

Holy cow, Laura Clawson is brutal in her Daily Kos piece.

"And she’s now promising to be all things to all people. If you’re looking for a tool of corporate interests, she’ll be that! But if you’re looking for someone with an “unwavering view that a woman’s health care decision should be between her, her doctor and her family,” you’re in luck, at least until defending that position requires changing Senate rules or shifting how Supreme Court appointments work."
posted by overhauser at 5:01 PM on December 9, 2022 [5 favorites]

Fetterman has professional work attire.
posted by Apocryphon at 5:02 PM on December 9, 2022 [5 favorites]

idk maybe how she dresses isn't really that big a deal? it signals quirk from a Gen X perspective and comes across affected and maybe a little cringe, sure, but i have a hard time caring about any senator's wardrobe choices as they actively destroy democracy or shrug that they dont have the votes to stop literal white supremacists from tanking the country

that said i am 100% here for fetterman showing up in a hoodie, cargo shorts, and a wallet chain at his hip
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 5:20 PM on December 9, 2022 [14 favorites]

Political signaling through fashion and dress (of women mostly, of course, insert eyeroll) has a long and storied history.

There's also Zelensky not wearing a suit where his country is being invaded.
posted by meowzilla at 5:25 PM on December 9, 2022 [2 favorites]

Scott Lemieux, Lawyers, Guns & Money: Call Sinema’s bluff

I’m pretty strongly inclined to call her bluff here:

• Contrary to what she may think, she’s no Murkowski or Lieberman, an internally popular candidate with a lot of crossover appeal (explicable or not) in their states. She is highly unpoplar with virtually every constituency in the state. Which isn’t surprising, since her brand of Silicon Valley libertarianism has essentially no mass constituency.
• Because of this, not only would polling reveal quickly that she has no chance in a 3-way race, she would be an exceptionally weak general election candidate as the de facto Democrat. The only scenario in which she had any chance would be if the AZ GOP ran Blake Masters or a similarly creepy kook again, and in that case she might be as likely to draw what little support she can get from Republicans as Democrats.
• Given the 2024 map, Arizona is very unlikely to be a tipping point state, and SInema was Senator 47 is completely useless. Moreover, in any nationwide context in which Democrats maintain control of the Senate, a Dem candidate would presumably have a very good chance even in a 3-way race.

I say run a real Democrat and dare Sinema to completely humiliate herself.

If the ratfucking campaign that brought us the Iraq War is the ultimate tragedy of Nader-style “take the politics out of politics” onanism, Sinema is the farce.

posted by tonycpsu at 5:33 PM on December 9, 2022 [19 favorites]

Where do you live that people dress up that nice for a trip to Lowe’s?

Little Rock, a pretty casual place. When I first moved here, I decided that, when it came to formal events, I could underdress, as long as I wasn’t the worst-dressed person in the room. I have not once lost that bet.

But rich people are the same everywhere. It’s not that everybody dresses like that for a trip to Lowe’s, but there’s always at least one.
posted by box at 5:47 PM on December 9, 2022

Biden should appoint her to a cabinet position, wait until a new senator is appointed, and then immediately ask for her resignation.
posted by leotrotsky at 6:11 PM on December 9, 2022 [3 favorites]

Brilliant. We have elimated the 'no' from thinking it through. This politican created a thing and, hey, let's act like the republicans and openly bully, promote, distort. it's been a short while since I seen a politician totally blow up their career for misguided ideology, most likely her own so let's call real big attention to that.

Then again it's politics.
posted by clavdivs at 6:31 PM on December 9, 2022

"I say run a real Democrat and dare Sinema to completely humiliate herself.

If the ratfucking campaign that brought us the Iraq War is the ultimate tragedy of Nader-style “take the politics out of politics” onanism, Sinema is the farce."
posted by tonycp

Bingo! quiet implosion.
posted by clavdivs at 6:36 PM on December 9, 2022

Must it be a cabinet position, when more than a quarter of ambassador positions are without a Senate-confirmed official, hindering American diplomacy
posted by Iris Gambol at 6:42 PM on December 9, 2022 [6 favorites]

Must it be a cabinet position, when more than a quarter of ambassador positions are without a Senate-confirmed official, hindering American diplomacy

Imagine being a head of state who gets to accept the diplomatic credentials of someone who famously had to be gotten rid of.
posted by Etrigan at 7:34 PM on December 9, 2022 [2 favorites]

Most of the heat for Sinema's clothing choices is downstream from her being a terrible representative and her outright betrayal of the principles that she purported to hold. Some of it is probably from people who thought she "was just like them" and got a rude awakening. If she had done anything good for people, they'd think she was the quirky aunty fighting for them. But she didn't, so now she'll have to live with a lot of private equity money and the knowledge that a bunch of little peons don't like her skirts.

I don't know, I've just never heard a good thing about her. There's no good deed here that we're ignoring, no work that we're demeaning by talking about her rings or her pink glasses. I guess that really is the most damning thing about her so far, that she got all the way to being a senator and her main achievement was wearing Modcloth in public.
posted by kingdead at 7:54 PM on December 9, 2022 [3 favorites]

Fetterman wore a suit for his first day

Senator Fetterman, and the other gentlemen pictured, prithee button your suit jacket whilst standing.
posted by kirkaracha at 8:23 PM on December 9, 2022 [3 favorites]

I propose we bring back togas for senators
posted by judgement day at 8:44 PM on December 9, 2022 [7 favorites]

No, make it a nude wrestling arena. Talk about watching twisted off skinned tubes stuffed with a ground meat neither kosher nor halal being made.
posted by y2karl at 10:00 PM on December 9, 2022

There appears to be less empathy on MeFi for the real life Felicia's of the world, compared to the Stacy's.
posted by fairmettle at 10:00 PM on December 9, 2022

So far I have heard no commentary on these topics from either the Felicia or the Stacy that I know....
posted by jenfullmoon at 2:37 AM on December 10, 2022

What is with so many articles about her attire they mention she wears an Apple Watch, are those bad now?
posted by waving at 2:46 AM on December 10, 2022

Ceci n'est pas une Democrat
posted by allium cepa at 4:32 AM on December 10, 2022 [3 favorites]

Apple Watch, are those bad now?

Well, it's complicated. The Apple Watch is one of the best-looking smartwatches, but smartwatches as a category aren't really that attractive. And even the fanciest Apple Watches don't convey the same $tatu$ as the most basic Cartier or Rolex or whatnot.

And some people find a moral high ground in not being overly dependent on tech products. And yet other people have a strong preference for Android products (and some of them manage to find a moral high ground in that). And yet other people feel that, for really serious endurance-sports kinds of use, the Apple Watch is inferior to like a Suunto or Garmin.

On the other hand, millions of people like them and they might be the best-selling watch in the world (which, inevitably, leads some people to think they're basic).

(It might be nice if politicians were judged by something other than their fashion choices, but these listicles aren't going to write themselves.)
posted by box at 7:13 AM on December 10, 2022 [3 favorites]

Also...I'd venture to guess that no smartwatch is ethically made, with solid non-labor violations or with eco friendly materials so.
posted by tiny frying pan at 7:31 AM on December 10, 2022 [1 favorite]

I despise Sinema politically, but I like that she deliberately goes against the grain this way and makes it work for her.

I just want to note (a bit late returning to this thread...I had to work) that Sinema fails to make it work—at least not if "make it work" means something like "accomplishes a policy agenda." Sinema makes a big show of ostensibly bipartisan deals but because she is deeply unprofessional they don't go anywhere. Sinema is in fact bad at accomplishing her own policy goals.

All that's left is performance of centrism, not even a centrism of substance.

Just the current example: very publicly, Sinema is negotiating a bill with Senator Tillis (R-NC) on a deal to give status to ~2.3 million DREAMers / DACA holders in advance of the funding bill that will probably pass in some form just before Xmas. They will need 10 R votes in total, plus all the D votes, to pass any bill.

Now, Sinema needs Sen. Schumer, the majority leader, to allow a vote on any bill that they bring (or amendment etc) — but Sinema has just left the party. Schumer is extremely unlikely to reward someone who publicly just left the party, *and* all the potential Republican Senate supporters know that the bill probably won't get a vote. So for the Rs she and Tillis need, the political calculation is all risk (getting yelled at by their base / Fox News) and no reward (ie no bill to champion in the end). Had Sinema waited on this announcement till January 2, her bill might have gotten a vote (and this is the only chance this session for DREAMers, before everyone expects the 5th Circuit to end DACA next year): so Sinema self-sabotaged for...what purpose, exactly?

I know all this is a little in the weeds but sometimes it's helpful to know how things work, to see just how bad at her job Sinema is.

(BTW: she is unprofessional not because of her outfits but in all the aspects of process and procedure, of which this is but a single example of many. I know this from her self-sabotage elsewhere but also from interacting with her office, corroborated by her difficulty hiring good leg staff — since she has zero coattails for their next jobs — and corroborated by I-don't-know-how-many other advocacy people I know quite well. It's all the same experience, top to bottom.)
posted by migrantology at 8:02 AM on December 10, 2022 [19 favorites]

>>I despise Sinema politically, but I like that she deliberately goes against the grain this way and makes it work for her.

>I just want to note (a bit late returning to this thread...I had to work) that Sinema fails to make it work—at least not if "make it work" means something like "accomplishes a policy agenda."

Just to quickly clarify, by "makes it work for her" I meant, "she makes her non-traditional fashion choices work for her in terms of her branding and identity." She has done really well at that -- unlike, as you say, advancing a coherent agenda.
posted by Dip Flash at 8:22 AM on December 10, 2022 [6 favorites]

If Feinstein passes away or resigns

It's going to be in a box because Feinstein has filed the initial paperwork to run in 2024.

I can only assume her chief of staff literally moved her hand in a signature like motion to get a semblance of a scrawling on the dotted line.
posted by Your Childhood Pet Rock at 8:25 AM on December 10, 2022 [5 favorites]

Why does every other kind of person appear to look forward to retirement?
posted by Selena777 at 8:44 AM on December 10, 2022 [3 favorites]

Why does every other kind of person appear to look forward to retirement?

Because politics is only partially about the hard work of policy and legislation and negotiation and compromise. It's also largely about selling yourself: "Senator Feinstein" is a Brand as much as any corporation or product, and you don't serve in office for 50 years and run in more than a dozen elections without internalizing some amount of I am Supervisor/Mayor/Senator/Candidate Feinstein; that is my identity.
posted by Etrigan at 9:00 AM on December 10, 2022 [1 favorite]

It's going to be in a box because Feinstein has filed the initial paperwork to run in 2024.

Or something non-lethal but far more substantially physically disabling, which could arrive in one of many different flavors.

I mean, the Senate has a long track record of wheeling Senatorial husks onto the floor on dollies and interpreting their small gestures as ayes or nays. She can rent herself out as a Cryptkeeper cosplayer on weekends and still fill that role, and California is one instance where a friendly Governor could appoint an interim Senator fairly quickly when something unpleasant does happen.

But it's still a disruption waiting to happen, and it's still a situation that an aspiring thorn-in-everyone's-side can take advantage of for a bit.
posted by delfin at 9:37 AM on December 10, 2022 [1 favorite]

Liebermanesque
posted by oldnumberseven at 11:49 AM on December 10, 2022 [1 favorite]

The O.G. Frankenstein's Monster of Democratic Party politics.
posted by y2karl at 12:13 PM on December 10, 2022

All I know is, Stacy's mom has got it going on.
posted by kirkaracha at 1:52 PM on December 10, 2022 [1 favorite]

Why does every other kind of person appear to look forward to retirement?

I don’t think that’s true, actually? I have relatives who have retired but still “consult”, and my impression that there’s a pretty standard social trope that after retiring from a job you can feel lost and not know what to do with yourself. This comment might be a bit deliberately glib, but work is a force that gives us meaning and meaningful work, or work where you feel empowered - well, that’s addictive stuff.
posted by Going To Maine at 3:17 PM on December 10, 2022 [5 favorites]

Liebermanesque

Lieberman was actually popular with his electorate though.
posted by Your Childhood Pet Rock at 5:14 AM on December 11, 2022 [1 favorite]

You can tell a politician is terrible when their most appealing quality is that their name sounds like a Pure Flix competitor.
posted by brundlefly at 6:40 PM on December 11, 2022

A politician's version of cheap, plain clothes is, like, a polo or Oxford-cloth shirt (with the sleeves rolled up a turn or two) over khakis or jeans, possibly with a fleece jacket or vest.

You are talking about G W Bush here. I'll take presidents that dress up, thanks.
posted by The_Vegetables at 8:18 AM on December 12, 2022

Why does every other kind of person appear to look forward to retirement?

Most of us hate our jobs. People who don't hate their jobs are not counting the days till their 65th birthday to be able to leave. I get the impression that politicians/senators/whatever usually LIKE their work, for some reason, since they keep running for office.
posted by jenfullmoon at 11:36 AM on December 12, 2022

Also, it's probably a mistake to underestimate the addictive properties of power.
posted by Atom Eyes at 11:59 AM on December 12, 2022 [4 favorites]

I think it's hard to win a Senate election campaign without convincing yourself that you're the very best person for the job. Probably most senators believe in their bones that if anybody else takes their place, they're gonna screw it up. And when you've been a senator as long as Feinstein, anyone doing anything differently than she's always done it is by definition screwing it up.
posted by straight at 11:38 AM on December 13, 2022 [2 favorites]

(And wow, I can't even imagine how hard it is to admit you've gotten too old to do the the main thing you've spent your life doing.)
posted by straight at 11:55 AM on December 13, 2022 [3 favorites]

A politician's version of cheap, plain clothes is, like, a polo or Oxford-cloth shirt (with the sleeves rolled up a turn or two) over khakis or jeans, possibly with a fleece jacket or vest.

You are talking about G W Bush here. I'll take presidents that dress up, thanks.

I mean, that's also how Obama dresses when he's trying to look casual.
posted by Artifice_Eternity at 5:56 PM on December 13, 2022

I still don't understand WTF happened with Sinema.

She was never perfect or anything, but when she was elected she an atheist, bisexual, progressive. The fact that she then transformed into one of the Democratic Party's most right wing assholes, competing with Joe Manchin for that title, is just kind of baffling. Not that being LGBT is a guarantor of good politics (hi Log Cabin dipshits) but it seemed to be part of a sheaf of generally at least somewhat leftish political indicators that she backed up by talking up a remarkably leftist viewpoint for a US Senator, especially a US Senator from Arizona.

And now four years later she's hated by the entire party for selling us out to the Republicans repeatedly.

What happened to her? Was she always like this and just faking it earlier? Did she decide to just troll for the lulz? I don't get it, and I'd like to at least understand. She's never offered any real explanation of her decision to betray everyone who voted for her, just the usual bullshit platitudes about bipartisanship and compromise. Those can explain a decision to vote for bad legislation, but they don't explain a total protonic reversal in politics.
posted by sotonohito at 4:43 AM on December 14, 2022 [1 favorite]

Sinema was pretty moderate/conservative as a Congressperson--she joined the Blue Dogs and the Problem Solvers when she was in the House. I don't think it's a big heel turn as much as it's a gradual swing toward more moderate stances as she amassed capital, political and otherwise (side note, she denied being an atheist back in 2012).

More cynically--what happened to Kyrsten Sinema? Ask a billionaire.
posted by box at 5:02 AM on December 14, 2022 [3 favorites]

I went to a fundraiser for Sinema in 2018 and understood at the time that she was quite right wing for a Democrat. Partly in step with her Arizona constituency, partly her own convictions. Going back further she's always been a bit of an oddball; her serious work in the Green Party, for instance, is pretty unusual for someone who later entered mainstream politics. I imagine someone's written a long article about her political history, particularly in the House, but I haven't read it.

What bugs me about her isn't her political positions. It's her fundamental non-seriousness and her apparent narcissism. She seems profoundly disrespectful.

I keep thinking I should get a 1/3 refund for my donation in 2018.
posted by Nelson at 7:01 AM on December 14, 2022 [4 favorites]

Political signaling through fashion and dress (of women mostly, of course, insert eyeroll) has a long and storied history.

> There's also Zelensky not wearing a suit where his country is being invaded.

Some right-wing outrage about 'disrespectful' clothing (Zelenskiy's sweatshirt while speaking to Congress) reminded me of this thread.
posted by trig at 6:13 AM on December 23, 2022

PPP poll shows Sinema drawing 13% support in a threeway race with Gallego and Lake, who tie each other.
posted by Horace Rumpole at 11:07 AM on December 23, 2022 [2 favorites]