From AAC and BBI to YYZ and ZZU
December 9, 2022 12:44 PM Subscribe
CGP Grey dives into The Maddening Mess of Airport Codes!.
It is, of course, Y-Y-zed.
posted by sagc at 12:51 PM on December 9, 2022 [18 favorites]
posted by sagc at 12:51 PM on December 9, 2022 [18 favorites]
Of course it is.
posted by yyz at 1:16 PM on December 9, 2022 [43 favorites]
posted by yyz at 1:16 PM on December 9, 2022 [43 favorites]
Only lasted a minute (the juvenile production -- so off-putting to this Old) but I wanted to note that they're all actually 4-digit codes; all US airports start with a "K" but since that's understood by all, the K is usually dropped.
posted by Rash at 1:22 PM on December 9, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by Rash at 1:22 PM on December 9, 2022 [2 favorites]
Only lasted a minute (the juvenile production -- so off-putting to this Old) but I wanted to note that they're all actually 4-digit codes; all US airports start with a "K" but since that's understood by all, the K is usually dropped.
Maybe you should watch it. (Pro Tip: If you think CGP Grey is facile and you know more than he does, you've probably missed something.)
posted by The Bellman at 1:26 PM on December 9, 2022 [23 favorites]
Maybe you should watch it. (Pro Tip: If you think CGP Grey is facile and you know more than he does, you've probably missed something.)
posted by The Bellman at 1:26 PM on December 9, 2022 [23 favorites]
Hmm. I wonder what the first three letters of my username resolves to? Zamboanga International, apparently.
posted by zamboni at 1:33 PM on December 9, 2022
posted by zamboni at 1:33 PM on December 9, 2022
I knew about LAX before I even flew on an airplane and before I knew about airport codes because I watched the movie Midnight Madness when I was a teenager.
posted by bondcliff at 1:36 PM on December 9, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by bondcliff at 1:36 PM on December 9, 2022 [2 favorites]
Cute video. I love learning random facts about oddball subjects, especially like this, where there was some rationale somewhere along the line. See also US sports teams history, like 'why does LA have a team called the Lakers?' or 'is Utah really known for their Jazz?'?
posted by hydra77 at 1:51 PM on December 9, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by hydra77 at 1:51 PM on December 9, 2022 [2 favorites]
Reminds me of a story about my grandparents traveling internationally and heading home. As they were checking in, the airline asked them what city they were traveling to. My grandfather was somehow at a loss for words and couldn't come up with anything other than blurting out "ORD". That was enough to get them home to Chicago.
posted by hydra77 at 1:53 PM on December 9, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by hydra77 at 1:53 PM on December 9, 2022 [1 favorite]
I wanted to note that they're all actually 4-digit codes; all US airports start with a "K" but since that's understood by all, the K is usually dropped.
As The Bellman is intimating, it's decidedly more complicated than that, but the how and why is covered in depth by the video.
posted by zamboni at 2:02 PM on December 9, 2022 [6 favorites]
As The Bellman is intimating, it's decidedly more complicated than that, but the how and why is covered in depth by the video.
posted by zamboni at 2:02 PM on December 9, 2022 [6 favorites]
Of course it is.
posted by yyz
Flagged as fantastic.
*plays air drums*
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 2:24 PM on December 9, 2022 [4 favorites]
posted by yyz
Flagged as fantastic.
*plays air drums*
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 2:24 PM on December 9, 2022 [4 favorites]
Can we convince the bitcoiners to move to Sri Lanka?
posted by jeffburdges at 2:26 PM on December 9, 2022
posted by jeffburdges at 2:26 PM on December 9, 2022
The X stands for International...but is inconsistently applied.
posted by Chuffy at 2:38 PM on December 9, 2022
posted by Chuffy at 2:38 PM on December 9, 2022
Amusingly, if you search "most dangerous airports" then you find considerable divergence, not like say Pitchfork listfilter but still..
Imho inclined mountain airports like Lukla and Courcheval look scariest, but the train vs cessna photos at Gisborne look impressive too.
posted by jeffburdges at 2:40 PM on December 9, 2022
Imho inclined mountain airports like Lukla and Courcheval look scariest, but the train vs cessna photos at Gisborne look impressive too.
posted by jeffburdges at 2:40 PM on December 9, 2022
If you think airport codes are a mess, I invite you to peruse this SABRE manual, and see how the messy airport codes are elevated to another level with arcane, abbreviated command codes. (example: S14NOVJFKFRA - Display flight schedules; S23JUNHNLLGW8ALAX - with connecting city specified)
But back in the day, it was amazing watching real travel agents use the system. Blazingly fast. (I was developing software for the tour operator side of the business. This place was the first time I ever installed a ONE GIGABYTE harddrive. It went into the Netware server.)
posted by mikelieman at 2:43 PM on December 9, 2022 [4 favorites]
But back in the day, it was amazing watching real travel agents use the system. Blazingly fast. (I was developing software for the tour operator side of the business. This place was the first time I ever installed a ONE GIGABYTE harddrive. It went into the Netware server.)
posted by mikelieman at 2:43 PM on December 9, 2022 [4 favorites]
mike, better check that link again...
posted by credulous at 2:47 PM on December 9, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by credulous at 2:47 PM on December 9, 2022 [1 favorite]
O'Hare Airport in Chicago is ORD because of another weird IATA thing: codes, once assigned to a physical location, are immutable and cannot be changed, no matter what changes at the site.
And so, the Douglas airplane factory that had built and launched four engine C-54 Skymasters from its runway closed and the locals turned it into a small airport named Orchard Field. They named it after a nearby farming community called Orchard Place, and it got the letters ORD.
Even later, when the small municipal airport expanded exponentially and became one of the world's largest, subsequently renamed O'Hare, it was bound to ORD. No take backs.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 3:38 PM on December 9, 2022 [4 favorites]
And so, the Douglas airplane factory that had built and launched four engine C-54 Skymasters from its runway closed and the locals turned it into a small airport named Orchard Field. They named it after a nearby farming community called Orchard Place, and it got the letters ORD.
Even later, when the small municipal airport expanded exponentially and became one of the world's largest, subsequently renamed O'Hare, it was bound to ORD. No take backs.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 3:38 PM on December 9, 2022 [4 favorites]
Wikipedia asserts that JFK (IATA) was once IDL (IATA).
posted by Chef Flamboyardee at 3:59 PM on December 9, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by Chef Flamboyardee at 3:59 PM on December 9, 2022 [1 favorite]
I bet TMBG could do a better song.
posted by jeffburdges at 4:04 PM on December 9, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by jeffburdges at 4:04 PM on December 9, 2022 [3 favorites]
#YGK represent!
This also serves as the Twitter hashtag for our city as there are other two equally known cities with the name Kingston.
posted by Kitteh at 4:05 PM on December 9, 2022
This also serves as the Twitter hashtag for our city as there are other two equally known cities with the name Kingston.
posted by Kitteh at 4:05 PM on December 9, 2022
The only thing I really wanted to know is the whole Canada Y thing. It really is a pretty big outlier whenever you look at airport codes around the world. Whenever I tried to look into this in the past, I only got as far as "maybe related to train station identifiers" but no further. CGP seems to have spent a lot of time on this and has apparently uncovered what the root of this is but I really want hear that story he's saving for another time.
posted by mhum at 4:18 PM on December 9, 2022
posted by mhum at 4:18 PM on December 9, 2022
CGP seems to have spent a lot of time on this and has apparently uncovered what the root of this is but I really want hear that story he's saving for another time.
Based on the last video where he said something similar, I think we can expect to see a very long follow-up in the not too distant future. I am excited for that!
posted by Jawn at 4:30 PM on December 9, 2022
Based on the last video where he said something similar, I think we can expect to see a very long follow-up in the not too distant future. I am excited for that!
posted by Jawn at 4:30 PM on December 9, 2022
When that one passenger plane had to return to Atlanta after engine problems I so wanted to make a "shouldn't that be a boomerang and not an atlatl?" joke
posted by BrotherCaine at 4:36 PM on December 9, 2022 [6 favorites]
posted by BrotherCaine at 4:36 PM on December 9, 2022 [6 favorites]
The system we have is a confusing mess, but it seems to me like a classic case of path dependence where you start doing something easy and convenient and just keep on glomming more and more ad hoc accretions on to it while the cost of reforming the system to be more rational just grows too fast to contemplate changing.
It's simpler because there are fewer countries than there are airports, but aircraft registration prefixes are also a complete mess if you expect them to have an obvious relation to country name. D, F, G —Germany, France and the UK— are obvious (except that it's usually referred to as the UK rather than Great Britain nowadays), but N for the USA? And nobody could guess by looking that 7T is Algeria.
It makes more sense when you know that they started assigning them in 1919 as part of the post First World War peace process and they probably began by starting with the ITU country codes, and the ITU started in 1865.
posted by Quinbus Flestrin at 5:45 PM on December 9, 2022 [2 favorites]
It's simpler because there are fewer countries than there are airports, but aircraft registration prefixes are also a complete mess if you expect them to have an obvious relation to country name. D, F, G —Germany, France and the UK— are obvious (except that it's usually referred to as the UK rather than Great Britain nowadays), but N for the USA? And nobody could guess by looking that 7T is Algeria.
It makes more sense when you know that they started assigning them in 1919 as part of the post First World War peace process and they probably began by starting with the ITU country codes, and the ITU started in 1865.
posted by Quinbus Flestrin at 5:45 PM on December 9, 2022 [2 favorites]
O'Hare Airport in Chicago is ORD because of another weird IATA thing: codes, once assigned to a physical location, are immutable and cannot be changed, no matter what changes at the site.
That’s not exactly true. JFK in New York City was once IDL (for its old name Idlewild) and Baltimore went from BAL to BWI. It’s rare, but it is possible.
posted by jmauro at 5:46 PM on December 9, 2022 [2 favorites]
That’s not exactly true. JFK in New York City was once IDL (for its old name Idlewild) and Baltimore went from BAL to BWI. It’s rare, but it is possible.
posted by jmauro at 5:46 PM on December 9, 2022 [2 favorites]
Very true. For the Chicago area, Chicago Executive kept PWK after its original name of Palwaukee Airport. But Chicago Municipal got to change to MDW when it was renamed to Midway Airport.
posted by JoeZydeco at 6:00 PM on December 9, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by JoeZydeco at 6:00 PM on December 9, 2022 [2 favorites]
Matt Parker did a somewhat similar thing about how there can only be 37 dogs with the same name: How Roman numerals broke the official dog database. - YouTube. Legacy Code Nightmare.
posted by zengargoyle at 6:04 PM on December 9, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by zengargoyle at 6:04 PM on December 9, 2022 [1 favorite]
It should be noted that even in the continental US some airports have ICAO codes that are not just the IATA code with a K pasted on the front. That's usually the case for airports with IATA codes, but it's not 100%.
And in addition to the IATA, ICAO, and FAA codes, there are a ton of airports with identifiers that begin with two letters for the state and then some numbers.
And another example of an IATA code being retained after a change in name is MCO in Orlando, so coded because it was originally McCoy Field. Another somewhat odd one in Florida is VPS for Valparaiso, but the name of the airport is now Destin–Fort Walton Beach Airport.
posted by wierdo at 6:06 PM on December 9, 2022 [2 favorites]
And in addition to the IATA, ICAO, and FAA codes, there are a ton of airports with identifiers that begin with two letters for the state and then some numbers.
And another example of an IATA code being retained after a change in name is MCO in Orlando, so coded because it was originally McCoy Field. Another somewhat odd one in Florida is VPS for Valparaiso, but the name of the airport is now Destin–Fort Walton Beach Airport.
posted by wierdo at 6:06 PM on December 9, 2022 [2 favorites]
When CGP Grey drops a new video, it is an EVENT in my house. The whole family gathers in the TV room to sit and watch it together. Inevitably, we also go back to watch some of our favorites (Hexagons are the Bestagons).
posted by johnxlibris at 6:14 PM on December 9, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by johnxlibris at 6:14 PM on December 9, 2022 [1 favorite]
Only lasted a minute (the juvenile production -- so off-putting to this Old)
Don't mistake simplicity of presentation style for juvenility or a facile treatment of a subject; CGP Grey goes deeper and harder into most subjects than many others in the educational/explainer segment, while still being very accessible. If you see other video creators with simple graphic styles, it's very likely CGP Grey is the one they're imitating.
posted by Aleyn at 7:08 PM on December 9, 2022 [2 favorites]
Don't mistake simplicity of presentation style for juvenility or a facile treatment of a subject; CGP Grey goes deeper and harder into most subjects than many others in the educational/explainer segment, while still being very accessible. If you see other video creators with simple graphic styles, it's very likely CGP Grey is the one they're imitating.
posted by Aleyn at 7:08 PM on December 9, 2022 [2 favorites]
(not to mention the very thing you commented on was addressed in the self same video which you would've known had you watched it, which makes your comment just that much more annoying to me)
posted by Aleyn at 7:10 PM on December 9, 2022 [9 favorites]
posted by Aleyn at 7:10 PM on December 9, 2022 [9 favorites]
This video was both educational and unexpectedly entertaining. It's of particular interest to me because my employer started out as an air freight company, and all of our 250+ branches are (often confusingly) named for their city's primary airport code. This does a better job than anything I've seen at explaining why SEA is Seattle, YVR is Vancouver and (though I don't think it's mentioned) BOM is Mumbai.
posted by lhauser at 7:44 PM on December 9, 2022
posted by lhauser at 7:44 PM on December 9, 2022
I love the whole framing of GCP presenting his whole thesis to a long suffering neighbour (probably a Tiffany) on an interminable flight. It feels like that might have happened.
posted by rongorongo at 3:10 AM on December 10, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by rongorongo at 3:10 AM on December 10, 2022 [2 favorites]
mike, better check that link again...
You're right. I pasted in the local link from my browser's PDF viewer for that SABRE manual and not the actual link.
posted by mikelieman at 4:42 AM on December 10, 2022 [3 favorites]
You're right. I pasted in the local link from my browser's PDF viewer for that SABRE manual and not the actual link.
posted by mikelieman at 4:42 AM on December 10, 2022 [3 favorites]
The only thing I really wanted to know is the whole Canada Y thing
Probably has to do with a Tiffany. Ynaffit?
posted by basalganglia at 1:47 PM on December 10, 2022 [1 favorite]
Probably has to do with a Tiffany. Ynaffit?
posted by basalganglia at 1:47 PM on December 10, 2022 [1 favorite]
As of 2020 (when I last worked in the industry), SABRE terminals were very much still a thing, and were the tool of choice for travel agents who needed to manually mess with a reservation, or make a complicated booking.
When I left (because COVID killed the entire industry), SABRE was making a big, final push to move travel agents over to GUI (*cough* screen-scraped) tools, but the old mainframe system will likely live on for a long, long time.
It has defied many, many, many attempts to replace it with something more “modern.”
These attempts have all failed, because the system - while archaic - is quite good at what it does, and nobody wants to invest in something that actually recaptures all of its capabilities.
posted by schmod at 5:18 PM on December 10, 2022 [2 favorites]
When I left (because COVID killed the entire industry), SABRE was making a big, final push to move travel agents over to GUI (*cough* screen-scraped) tools, but the old mainframe system will likely live on for a long, long time.
It has defied many, many, many attempts to replace it with something more “modern.”
These attempts have all failed, because the system - while archaic - is quite good at what it does, and nobody wants to invest in something that actually recaptures all of its capabilities.
posted by schmod at 5:18 PM on December 10, 2022 [2 favorites]
This also serves as the Twitter hashtag for our city
The use of airport codes as Twitter city hashtags is interesting. I think it's common and widespread now, but I remember in the very early days, when hashtags were still just a user thing that Twitter hadn't officially adopted, my local #YEG folks decided to use the airport code (despite the airport technically not even being in the city) because the other popular suggestion of #EDM was already in use and primarily referred to electronic dance music.
Weirdly, use of the hashtag in common, offline communication caught on rapidly after this, so we have a fair number of businesses that use it either in marketing materials or even as part of their name. It helps that it is pronounceable as a "word" (it rhymes with "egg") rather than having to say each letter every time you say it out loud.
posted by asnider at 8:28 AM on December 12, 2022
The use of airport codes as Twitter city hashtags is interesting. I think it's common and widespread now, but I remember in the very early days, when hashtags were still just a user thing that Twitter hadn't officially adopted, my local #YEG folks decided to use the airport code (despite the airport technically not even being in the city) because the other popular suggestion of #EDM was already in use and primarily referred to electronic dance music.
Weirdly, use of the hashtag in common, offline communication caught on rapidly after this, so we have a fair number of businesses that use it either in marketing materials or even as part of their name. It helps that it is pronounceable as a "word" (it rhymes with "egg") rather than having to say each letter every time you say it out loud.
posted by asnider at 8:28 AM on December 12, 2022
Oof -- BEN is the IATA code for Benina International Airport in... Benghazi, Libya.
posted by Ben Trismegistus at 8:51 AM on December 12, 2022
posted by Ben Trismegistus at 8:51 AM on December 12, 2022
It’s interesting to think how well WhatThreeWords would do for airport names. Since each block is a square metre, places could choose a location to promote that sounded appropriate: bets.sudden.wider for Edinburgh, for example. The advantage is that words tell you how to reach the place - whether you are a passenger or pilot.
posted by rongorongo at 10:08 AM on December 12, 2022
posted by rongorongo at 10:08 AM on December 12, 2022
The advantage is that words tell you how to reach the place - whether you are a passenger or pilot.
Make sure you enunciate, though.
posted by zamboni at 10:57 AM on December 12, 2022
Make sure you enunciate, though.
posted by zamboni at 10:57 AM on December 12, 2022
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