How to Uncurse Your Dice Before Game Night
December 9, 2022 7:35 PM Subscribe
Duh, everyone knows that to improve your dice's luck you have to blow on them!
posted by praemunire at 8:19 PM on December 9, 2022 [5 favorites]
posted by praemunire at 8:19 PM on December 9, 2022 [5 favorites]
An alternate view: Zee Bashew on Dice Training (YT 4:17).
posted by bonehead at 8:27 PM on December 9, 2022 [5 favorites]
posted by bonehead at 8:27 PM on December 9, 2022 [5 favorites]
Beat me to the Zee Bashew. Dice Ghosts!
posted by bartleby at 8:32 PM on December 9, 2022 [4 favorites]
posted by bartleby at 8:32 PM on December 9, 2022 [4 favorites]
hydrophonic just became my favorite person.
posted by Saxon Kane at 9:08 PM on December 9, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by Saxon Kane at 9:08 PM on December 9, 2022 [1 favorite]
d20 Dice Randomness Test: Chessex vs GameScience
posted by fairmettle at 9:13 PM on December 9, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by fairmettle at 9:13 PM on December 9, 2022 [2 favorites]
I dm on roll20. i keep a bag of dice at my side for decisions and my PCs find it much scarier hearing them roll.
posted by lkc at 10:56 PM on December 9, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by lkc at 10:56 PM on December 9, 2022 [2 favorites]
I haven't played D&D in probably 32 years now, so I'm using this as a platform to ask the question : is the D&D of today anything like the advanced (aka AD&D) of, say, late-80s - early 90s? Or did the much-scoffed-at-the-time Basic (or BD&D) become the new norm?
I ask because my DM back then had stacks of those little 20-40 page hardcover books (like this and also this) in his arsenal and I feel like I haven't seen them since then and when I'm shopping for card / board games for parties, I always see D&D sets and I'm like "wait, is that just the newest BD&D re-packaged as a board game now?".
posted by revmitcz at 12:27 AM on December 10, 2022 [2 favorites]
I ask because my DM back then had stacks of those little 20-40 page hardcover books (like this and also this) in his arsenal and I feel like I haven't seen them since then and when I'm shopping for card / board games for parties, I always see D&D sets and I'm like "wait, is that just the newest BD&D re-packaged as a board game now?".
posted by revmitcz at 12:27 AM on December 10, 2022 [2 favorites]
I haven't played D&D in probably 32 years now, so I'm using this as a platform to ask the question : is the D&D of today anything like the advanced (aka AD&D) of, say, late-80s - early 90s?
So, the current version of D&D is Fifth Edition (5e in the vernacular), with a new "living" version called "One D&D" currently in beta. 5e traces its lineage back to Third Edition (3e), which was built off of AD&D Second Edition and was a response to a lot of cruft that grew up around that particular version. If you're curious about some of the early evolutions of the game, DMTuber Matt Coville has a series in which he discusses the history of the game by creating Duncan the Fighter in each version, discussing the design philosophy of each through making a character. (Sadly, he only got to 3e in the series, but there's a lot of food for thought there!)
Also, the Player's Handbook (PHB) and Dungeon Master's Guide (DMG) (the two books you have pictured there) were never small books even at that point as they, alongside the Monster Manual (MM) form the D&D Core Ruleset. The Starter Boxsets contain stripped down versions of the PHB and DMG as well as a starter adventure for characters levels 1-5 to let people start playing quick because the Core Ruleset is...imposing (I have both the 4e and 5e versions, and either could do legit damage if wielded as an improvised weapon.)
posted by NoxAeternum at 12:47 AM on December 10, 2022 [10 favorites]
So, the current version of D&D is Fifth Edition (5e in the vernacular), with a new "living" version called "One D&D" currently in beta. 5e traces its lineage back to Third Edition (3e), which was built off of AD&D Second Edition and was a response to a lot of cruft that grew up around that particular version. If you're curious about some of the early evolutions of the game, DMTuber Matt Coville has a series in which he discusses the history of the game by creating Duncan the Fighter in each version, discussing the design philosophy of each through making a character. (Sadly, he only got to 3e in the series, but there's a lot of food for thought there!)
Also, the Player's Handbook (PHB) and Dungeon Master's Guide (DMG) (the two books you have pictured there) were never small books even at that point as they, alongside the Monster Manual (MM) form the D&D Core Ruleset. The Starter Boxsets contain stripped down versions of the PHB and DMG as well as a starter adventure for characters levels 1-5 to let people start playing quick because the Core Ruleset is...imposing (I have both the 4e and 5e versions, and either could do legit damage if wielded as an improvised weapon.)
posted by NoxAeternum at 12:47 AM on December 10, 2022 [10 favorites]
So, the current version of D&D is Fifth Edition (5e in the vernacular), with a new "living" version called "One D&D" currently in beta. 5e traces its lineage back to Third Edition (3e), which was built off of AD&D Second Edition and was a response to a lot of cruft that grew up around that particular version.Thank you for that video series, I'll have to check it out. I presumed at least one D&D Nerd (using that term in its proper capitalized form as a sign of respect, not derision) did some kind of deep dive on Youtube.
I'm a little confused by this "beta" remark you made (I would assume, from a software perspective, means it isn't available to someone just popping into a game store?) but also : what are all those weird D&D sets I'm seeing in stores? Are those my previously presumed BD&D sets?
posted by revmitcz at 1:05 AM on December 10, 2022
I'm a little confused by this "beta" remark you made (I would assume, from a software perspective, means it isn't available to someone just popping into a game store?)
They (Wizards of the Coast) are releasing the playtest version of the next D&D edition in dribs and drabs. So it's not available in a game store yet, no. You can download the various bits released so far from dndbeyond.com if you can find it on there.
...what are all those weird D&D sets I'm seeing in stores? Are those my previously presumed BD&D sets?
Basically, yes. (No pun intended)
The "Starter Set" and whatever the latest box is called are both broadly trying to fill the same niche that the old Basic D&D boxed set filled, back in the day. Sort of. The "Essentials Kit" box is, I think, the same thing but without providing you with the pregenerated characters.
posted by faceplantingcheetah at 1:21 AM on December 10, 2022 [1 favorite]
They (Wizards of the Coast) are releasing the playtest version of the next D&D edition in dribs and drabs. So it's not available in a game store yet, no. You can download the various bits released so far from dndbeyond.com if you can find it on there.
...what are all those weird D&D sets I'm seeing in stores? Are those my previously presumed BD&D sets?
Basically, yes. (No pun intended)
The "Starter Set" and whatever the latest box is called are both broadly trying to fill the same niche that the old Basic D&D boxed set filled, back in the day. Sort of. The "Essentials Kit" box is, I think, the same thing but without providing you with the pregenerated characters.
posted by faceplantingcheetah at 1:21 AM on December 10, 2022 [1 favorite]
Regarding BD&D - all that BD&D was is the "original" D&D rules based on the famous "Red Box" base set. If you're curious about how that ruleset shook out, you can look up the Rules Cyclopedia, which was the "final" incarnation of those. While AD&D was initially conceived as an add-on for those rules, it quickly became it's own beast - part of the point of 3e was to say "this is D&D period", sort of like when Microsoft killed off Windows 9x by creating XP based on the NT/2000 codebase. While the starter boxsets are meant to get people started, they are built on the same rules in the 5e Core Ruleset (and you can actually buy the starter adventures in them separately if you got the Core Ruleset.)
As for One D&D, it's pretty common for TTRPG maakers like WotC and Paizo (makers of Pathfinder, a 3e offshoot created by people who were...less than happy about 4e (which was a very divisive edition of D&D)) to have semiformal "betas" of new versions to test rules and scenarios (another DMTuber, Puffin Forest talked about playtesting Pathfinder 2e and running the Total Party Kill (TPK) module, in which he explains tabletop playtesting works.)
posted by NoxAeternum at 1:37 AM on December 10, 2022 [2 favorites]
As for One D&D, it's pretty common for TTRPG maakers like WotC and Paizo (makers of Pathfinder, a 3e offshoot created by people who were...less than happy about 4e (which was a very divisive edition of D&D)) to have semiformal "betas" of new versions to test rules and scenarios (another DMTuber, Puffin Forest talked about playtesting Pathfinder 2e and running the Total Party Kill (TPK) module, in which he explains tabletop playtesting works.)
posted by NoxAeternum at 1:37 AM on December 10, 2022 [2 favorites]
what are all those weird D&D sets I'm seeing in stores? Are those my previously presumed BD&D sets?
It gets complicated, since there are lots of products and sets around.
At its heart, modern D&D is akin to improvisational theater. One person (the 'Dungeon Master' or DM) creates a scenario; and several other people (Players) go through that scenario, as characters.
But there are technical rules, beyond just imagination. Like you shoot an arrow at someone in the game, that means you roll dice to see if you hit or miss; if your target has armor on, you have to roll a higher number.
So a Core Rules Set would be three books:
- a Dungeon Master's Guide, to help the DM create scenarios
- a Monster Manual, a compendium of beasts and foes for the players to face. What's the technical difference between a zombie and an animated skeleton? What are the stats for a vampire in D&D?
- a Player's Handbook, to help the players create and customize their own characters. What's the difference between a Wizard and a Sorceror? A Fighter and a Barbarian?
With those three books, you and a bunch of friends can get really imaginative and create a custom adventure out of whole cloth.
And you can purchase further books, with pre-written adventures that include background lore, etc.
Then there are Starter Sets and Essentials and similar boxed sets, that are for "Hey, I didn't mean to make everyone read a textbook and start a new hobby. I was just thinking about something for in case the five of us go to to the beach, but it rains all weekend."
These contain some mix of
- a prewritten adventure appropriate for beginner characters, and an abbreviated set of DM materials for that
- prewritten characters and an abbreviated set of Player materials for that
- one set of dice to pass around when it's your turn*
These are fine if you want to try D&D out, and don't want to buy and study a shelf full of books of lore and stats and writing prompts.
BUT! Those abbreviated booklets are still a dozen or two pages long. It's not like just busting out the Scrabble board after everyone's had coffee.
[* I would recommend opening up the box and 1) make multiple copies of the Player materials, so everyone can have their own to read, and maybe 2) buy a few sets of dice, one color per player, as a souvenir. As the DM, I would read through the whole adventure and all the materials first, being familiar with it before asking a group to play.]
The usual progression is to join someone's existing game, and they help make a character for you. You're a little lost, or you want to make your own personalized character, so you buy yourself a Player's Handbook. And a set of sparkly dice.
Then you buy a book of expanded lore. and a set of glow in the dark dice.
Then you think you might like to create your own campaign, so you buy some DM books. And some more sets of dice, in different colors and patterns and materials. And so on.
I don't know why all the dice. But they're cheap and something to fiddle with during someone else's turn.
So you could get a set of the core full rule books; then it's just your imagination and some pencils, paper, and dice.
Or you could get one of the starter sets, that contains a prewritten adventure, and just the rules you need to play through that.
The latter is for if you want to try it out with some friends on a bank holiday weekend and do a 'complete' adventure.
The former is if you all enjoyed that so much that you want to make it a regular Sunday afternoons thing, making up your own adventures.
But either one is likely to overwhelm your guests if you spring it on them in the middle of a cocktail party.
posted by bartleby at 3:58 AM on December 10, 2022 [7 favorites]
It gets complicated, since there are lots of products and sets around.
At its heart, modern D&D is akin to improvisational theater. One person (the 'Dungeon Master' or DM) creates a scenario; and several other people (Players) go through that scenario, as characters.
But there are technical rules, beyond just imagination. Like you shoot an arrow at someone in the game, that means you roll dice to see if you hit or miss; if your target has armor on, you have to roll a higher number.
So a Core Rules Set would be three books:
- a Dungeon Master's Guide, to help the DM create scenarios
- a Monster Manual, a compendium of beasts and foes for the players to face. What's the technical difference between a zombie and an animated skeleton? What are the stats for a vampire in D&D?
- a Player's Handbook, to help the players create and customize their own characters. What's the difference between a Wizard and a Sorceror? A Fighter and a Barbarian?
With those three books, you and a bunch of friends can get really imaginative and create a custom adventure out of whole cloth.
And you can purchase further books, with pre-written adventures that include background lore, etc.
Then there are Starter Sets and Essentials and similar boxed sets, that are for "Hey, I didn't mean to make everyone read a textbook and start a new hobby. I was just thinking about something for in case the five of us go to to the beach, but it rains all weekend."
These contain some mix of
- a prewritten adventure appropriate for beginner characters, and an abbreviated set of DM materials for that
- prewritten characters and an abbreviated set of Player materials for that
- one set of dice to pass around when it's your turn*
These are fine if you want to try D&D out, and don't want to buy and study a shelf full of books of lore and stats and writing prompts.
BUT! Those abbreviated booklets are still a dozen or two pages long. It's not like just busting out the Scrabble board after everyone's had coffee.
[* I would recommend opening up the box and 1) make multiple copies of the Player materials, so everyone can have their own to read, and maybe 2) buy a few sets of dice, one color per player, as a souvenir. As the DM, I would read through the whole adventure and all the materials first, being familiar with it before asking a group to play.]
The usual progression is to join someone's existing game, and they help make a character for you. You're a little lost, or you want to make your own personalized character, so you buy yourself a Player's Handbook. And a set of sparkly dice.
Then you buy a book of expanded lore. and a set of glow in the dark dice.
Then you think you might like to create your own campaign, so you buy some DM books. And some more sets of dice, in different colors and patterns and materials. And so on.
I don't know why all the dice. But they're cheap and something to fiddle with during someone else's turn.
So you could get a set of the core full rule books; then it's just your imagination and some pencils, paper, and dice.
Or you could get one of the starter sets, that contains a prewritten adventure, and just the rules you need to play through that.
The latter is for if you want to try it out with some friends on a bank holiday weekend and do a 'complete' adventure.
The former is if you all enjoyed that so much that you want to make it a regular Sunday afternoons thing, making up your own adventures.
But either one is likely to overwhelm your guests if you spring it on them in the middle of a cocktail party.
posted by bartleby at 3:58 AM on December 10, 2022 [7 favorites]
Secret shame. You make your dice sacred to the elder gods by holding them in your mouth. Either that or I had some weird preteen oral sensation OCD issues as a child.
Thinking about the delightfully odd edges of a d20 in there just made me salivate a little. OK, I may still have the oral fixation.
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 6:31 AM on December 10, 2022 [2 favorites]
Thinking about the delightfully odd edges of a d20 in there just made me salivate a little. OK, I may still have the oral fixation.
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 6:31 AM on December 10, 2022 [2 favorites]
I haven't played D&D in probably 32 years now, so I'm using this as a platform to ask the question : is the D&D of today anything like the advanced (aka AD&D) of, say, late-80s - early 90s?
In addition to checking out the excellent info above, you might also be interested in the "Old School Revival" (OSR) thread of the gaming community. These folks are interested in a game experience that's more like AD&D and less like the narrative-forward D&D 5e. There are several so-called retro-clone rule systems (like Old School Essentials, Swords & Wizardry, Dungeon Crawl Classics, and many others). And of course, there is a lively community of folks developing modules and other content (for instance, Temple of the Serpent King, a free dungeon intended to introduce folks to OSR). It's never been a better time to play the D&D of 30 years ago.
posted by ourobouros at 7:20 AM on December 10, 2022 [7 favorites]
In addition to checking out the excellent info above, you might also be interested in the "Old School Revival" (OSR) thread of the gaming community. These folks are interested in a game experience that's more like AD&D and less like the narrative-forward D&D 5e. There are several so-called retro-clone rule systems (like Old School Essentials, Swords & Wizardry, Dungeon Crawl Classics, and many others). And of course, there is a lively community of folks developing modules and other content (for instance, Temple of the Serpent King, a free dungeon intended to introduce folks to OSR). It's never been a better time to play the D&D of 30 years ago.
posted by ourobouros at 7:20 AM on December 10, 2022 [7 favorites]
My sister got me the best "dice jail" ever, because it's actually an axolotl dice cuddler.
I'm not a taskmaster who berates dice when they mess up, lowering their confidence, getting in their head, and causing long term damage. I follow data driven management techniques--and just basic human decency--and boost them up, well aware that any die, no matter how good at heart, can occasionally make a bad roll.
posted by mark k at 9:58 AM on December 10, 2022 [3 favorites]
I'm not a taskmaster who berates dice when they mess up, lowering their confidence, getting in their head, and causing long term damage. I follow data driven management techniques--and just basic human decency--and boost them up, well aware that any die, no matter how good at heart, can occasionally make a bad roll.
posted by mark k at 9:58 AM on December 10, 2022 [3 favorites]
Uncurse Dice (Abjuration)posted by logicpunk at 11:56 AM on December 10, 2022 [5 favorites]
Range: Touch
Components: S, M
Duration: Permanent
Casting time: 1 turn
Area of effect: One Die
Saving throw: N/A
Explanation/Description: Uncurse Dice removes a curse from a single numbered polyhedral. Material components are a fine platinum needle, powdered lead, and paint. Set the polyhedral down with the lowest number facing up. Press the needle against the number and rotate it with your fingertips for at least 5 rounds while maintaining pressure. Alternate sprinkling the powdered lead over the polyhedral and vigorously rubbing the upturned face for another 5 rounds. The spell is completed by daubing paint at the point at which the needle was in contact with the polyhedral.
Oh, I'm probably paying it wrong but I got a wedge of parchment with my "Satanic Panic" edition back when, and there's a prick-your-finger blood rite to move to the best cosmos matching your dice roll -- which means great DnD campaigns but the worst timeline.
posted by k3ninho at 2:25 PM on December 10, 2022
posted by k3ninho at 2:25 PM on December 10, 2022
Here's another response to the question of whether 5th edition D&D is closer to AD&D and Basic! Here it goes: it's not really close to either.
It was said above that it has its roots in 3rd edition, and well, kind of? Others have said that you can almost run 1st edition games in 5th edition without change, and well, kind of? It might be seen as a simpler system mechanically like Basic, and well, kind of?
It's impossible to answer the question conclusively without more information on what your group disliked about Basic D&D. Truthfully, every edition of D&D has different things its good at, even the much-maligned 4th edition, which focused heavily on the tactical tabletop flavor of D&D. Basic was a more complete game than 1st ed AD&D was, in some ways. "Basic" was in fact three different subtly-different versions; the original, a two-book version split up into Basic and Expert, and later a five book version popularly called BCEMI, for Basic, Companion, Expert, Master and Immortal.
I started to lay out a short summary of what had changed with each version, but I was going mostly from memory, and the summary was rapidly becoming not so short, so I clipped it. I'm pretty sure I said all of that here before some years ago, anyway.
posted by JHarris at 3:48 PM on December 10, 2022
It was said above that it has its roots in 3rd edition, and well, kind of? Others have said that you can almost run 1st edition games in 5th edition without change, and well, kind of? It might be seen as a simpler system mechanically like Basic, and well, kind of?
It's impossible to answer the question conclusively without more information on what your group disliked about Basic D&D. Truthfully, every edition of D&D has different things its good at, even the much-maligned 4th edition, which focused heavily on the tactical tabletop flavor of D&D. Basic was a more complete game than 1st ed AD&D was, in some ways. "Basic" was in fact three different subtly-different versions; the original, a two-book version split up into Basic and Expert, and later a five book version popularly called BCEMI, for Basic, Companion, Expert, Master and Immortal.
I started to lay out a short summary of what had changed with each version, but I was going mostly from memory, and the summary was rapidly becoming not so short, so I clipped it. I'm pretty sure I said all of that here before some years ago, anyway.
posted by JHarris at 3:48 PM on December 10, 2022
My 18-year-old daughter is a prime candidate for D&D. She loves to invent worlds, create characters, and then tell stories with both. She has already bought 3 sets of dice, just because she liked them.
I played a few different role-playing games in my teen/college years. I know my daughter would love it. Can I ask the assembled honourable Nerds on this thread to recommend a 2 player dice/roleplay game of the one DM/GM, one player variety?
If it pleases the house, I would also respectfully add that the game would be much preferred with more Dragons and less Dungeon.
posted by B3taCatScan at 4:45 PM on December 10, 2022 [1 favorite]
I played a few different role-playing games in my teen/college years. I know my daughter would love it. Can I ask the assembled honourable Nerds on this thread to recommend a 2 player dice/roleplay game of the one DM/GM, one player variety?
If it pleases the house, I would also respectfully add that the game would be much preferred with more Dragons and less Dungeon.
posted by B3taCatScan at 4:45 PM on December 10, 2022 [1 favorite]
My 18-year-old daughter is a prime candidate for D&D. She loves to invent worlds, create characters, and then tell stories with both. She has already bought 3 sets of dice, just because she liked them.
A friend of mine named Jeff (the guy i nfact was my first DM 40+ years ago), sent me a text a while ago showing me a set of bronze polyhedrals he had just bought for as a birthday gift for his teenaged niece who is big into D&D. I texted back "NICE DICE!" and perhaps four seconds later got a second copy of his text, as he had inadvertently thumbed the send button a second time. I responded to the second one with "NICE DICE TWICE!"
He ignored my wordplay and expressed his concern that she might already have a set or even two like this. I responded "THRICE THE NICE DICE!"
Because Jeff is also a dad, he responded coolly, "That will suffice."
posted by ricochet biscuit at 8:35 PM on December 10, 2022 [2 favorites]
A friend of mine named Jeff (the guy i nfact was my first DM 40+ years ago), sent me a text a while ago showing me a set of bronze polyhedrals he had just bought for as a birthday gift for his teenaged niece who is big into D&D. I texted back "NICE DICE!" and perhaps four seconds later got a second copy of his text, as he had inadvertently thumbed the send button a second time. I responded to the second one with "NICE DICE TWICE!"
He ignored my wordplay and expressed his concern that she might already have a set or even two like this. I responded "THRICE THE NICE DICE!"
Because Jeff is also a dad, he responded coolly, "That will suffice."
posted by ricochet biscuit at 8:35 PM on December 10, 2022 [2 favorites]
I dm on roll20. i keep a bag of dice at my side for decisions and my PCs find it much scarier hearing them roll.
Big ups if you put in a pause after the roll, then a slightly breathless "...huh."
posted by Halloween Jack at 10:47 PM on December 10, 2022 [3 favorites]
Big ups if you put in a pause after the roll, then a slightly breathless "...huh."
posted by Halloween Jack at 10:47 PM on December 10, 2022 [3 favorites]
She has already bought 3 sets of dice, just because she liked them.
See!? The dice hoarder thing even affects people who don't even play!
posted by bartleby at 10:56 PM on December 10, 2022 [1 favorite]
See!? The dice hoarder thing even affects people who don't even play!
posted by bartleby at 10:56 PM on December 10, 2022 [1 favorite]
recommend a 2 player dice/roleplay game of the one DM/GM, one player variety?
I haven't played with it so cannot personally vouch; but the Essentials Kit boxed set comes with a lot of stuff, including some accessory rules for playing with 'sidekicks'- letting a single player control secondary character(s) in addition to their own.
Again, haven't played that way myself so I can't say how well it works; but it's at least intended to deal with the fact that most challenges in D&D are meant to be faced by a group of adventurers, not solo'd. And the story arc's Big Bad is a dragon, which helps with
preferred with more Dragons and less Dungeon.
If you're gift shopping for a dragon-fancier, one of the accessory books of lore is Fizban's Treasury of Dragons. A specialty bestiary and rulebook all about dragons in the official world of D&D. Even if they don't play, it's still full of dragon art and stories about dragon types and history, etc.
She loves to invent worlds, create characters, and then tell stories with both. Well then another good gift would be a copy of the Player's Handbook. That has everything she'd need to create playable characters like Halfling Wizards and Tortle Druids and half-Elf Paladins and Dragonborn Monks. Who is this person? What can they do? Why are they on a quest for adventure?
Even if you don't get to play, the imagination-within-rules of D&D character building can be a diverting creative exercise. But if she does run into an opportunity to join a game, saying "well I've never actually played; but I have a couple character sheets I made up, and I've read Fizban's cover to cover six times" will get her escorted to a seat, welcomed, and provided with snacks.
posted by bartleby at 11:51 PM on December 10, 2022 [2 favorites]
I haven't played with it so cannot personally vouch; but the Essentials Kit boxed set comes with a lot of stuff, including some accessory rules for playing with 'sidekicks'- letting a single player control secondary character(s) in addition to their own.
Again, haven't played that way myself so I can't say how well it works; but it's at least intended to deal with the fact that most challenges in D&D are meant to be faced by a group of adventurers, not solo'd. And the story arc's Big Bad is a dragon, which helps with
preferred with more Dragons and less Dungeon.
If you're gift shopping for a dragon-fancier, one of the accessory books of lore is Fizban's Treasury of Dragons. A specialty bestiary and rulebook all about dragons in the official world of D&D. Even if they don't play, it's still full of dragon art and stories about dragon types and history, etc.
She loves to invent worlds, create characters, and then tell stories with both. Well then another good gift would be a copy of the Player's Handbook. That has everything she'd need to create playable characters like Halfling Wizards and Tortle Druids and half-Elf Paladins and Dragonborn Monks. Who is this person? What can they do? Why are they on a quest for adventure?
Even if you don't get to play, the imagination-within-rules of D&D character building can be a diverting creative exercise. But if she does run into an opportunity to join a game, saying "well I've never actually played; but I have a couple character sheets I made up, and I've read Fizban's cover to cover six times" will get her escorted to a seat, welcomed, and provided with snacks.
posted by bartleby at 11:51 PM on December 10, 2022 [2 favorites]
"is the D&D of today anything like the advanced (aka AD&D) of, say, late-80s - early 90s?"
At the risk of derailing, I humbly ask, "Why have there been so many flavors of D&D?"
I played and DM'd a bit in the late '80s early '90s and purchased all of the Basic D&D and AD&D books of the time -- and I never understood others' apparent dread of mixing and matching and playing by ear.
Which rules did we use? The ones that seemed to be the most fun for any particular aspect of the game (or the first one identified to address an issue).
The players never seemed to care as long as play was internally consistent and I wasn't acting in an unfair way, i.e. as long as it was fun.
We never found the late 80s/early 90s rules insufficient to the task of campaigning...
Were we D&Ding wrong?
posted by MrJM at 1:05 PM on December 11, 2022
At the risk of derailing, I humbly ask, "Why have there been so many flavors of D&D?"
I played and DM'd a bit in the late '80s early '90s and purchased all of the Basic D&D and AD&D books of the time -- and I never understood others' apparent dread of mixing and matching and playing by ear.
Which rules did we use? The ones that seemed to be the most fun for any particular aspect of the game (or the first one identified to address an issue).
The players never seemed to care as long as play was internally consistent and I wasn't acting in an unfair way, i.e. as long as it was fun.
We never found the late 80s/early 90s rules insufficient to the task of campaigning...
Were we D&Ding wrong?
posted by MrJM at 1:05 PM on December 11, 2022
At the risk of derailing, I humbly ask, "Why have there been so many flavors of D&D?"
Simply put, because the world changed around D&D. Part of the concept behind One D&D is to create a more "living" system, so that D&D can evolve without needing a major change again which...we'll see how well that works.
A better question is to ask about what those changes that caused major version shifts were. Probably the biggest was the move to Third Edition, which was partly due to the desktop publishing revolution causing shakeups in TTRPG, in particular White Wolf with their more narrative focused Storyteller system and World of Darkness setting - and partially because TSR was managing itself into the ground at that point. It also marked the game's transition from pulp fantasy to epic fantasy as the base, with the default "world" of D&D moving from the pulpy Mystara to Forgotten Realms' Faerun.
posted by NoxAeternum at 1:34 PM on December 11, 2022 [1 favorite]
Simply put, because the world changed around D&D. Part of the concept behind One D&D is to create a more "living" system, so that D&D can evolve without needing a major change again which...we'll see how well that works.
A better question is to ask about what those changes that caused major version shifts were. Probably the biggest was the move to Third Edition, which was partly due to the desktop publishing revolution causing shakeups in TTRPG, in particular White Wolf with their more narrative focused Storyteller system and World of Darkness setting - and partially because TSR was managing itself into the ground at that point. It also marked the game's transition from pulp fantasy to epic fantasy as the base, with the default "world" of D&D moving from the pulpy Mystara to Forgotten Realms' Faerun.
posted by NoxAeternum at 1:34 PM on December 11, 2022 [1 favorite]
At the risk of derailing, I humbly ask, "Why have there been so many flavors of D&D?"
At an RPG Discord server I'm on, someone posted this Matt Colville video talking about editions, and it explains something I've only recently realized. Despite superficially similar rules the changes really shifted the gameplay.
People can and do make them match their preferences, but, basically, behind the RPG commonalities, AD&D 1e was a dungeon survival game, 3e was a fantasy combat game, and 5e is a heroic fantasy adventure game. (Colville claims 5e is actually a bland nothing, but whatever.)
posted by mark k at 11:26 PM on December 11, 2022 [2 favorites]
At an RPG Discord server I'm on, someone posted this Matt Colville video talking about editions, and it explains something I've only recently realized. Despite superficially similar rules the changes really shifted the gameplay.
People can and do make them match their preferences, but, basically, behind the RPG commonalities, AD&D 1e was a dungeon survival game, 3e was a fantasy combat game, and 5e is a heroic fantasy adventure game. (Colville claims 5e is actually a bland nothing, but whatever.)
posted by mark k at 11:26 PM on December 11, 2022 [2 favorites]
The first detailed examination of dice and luck superstitions among roleplayers (as opposed to dice superstitions among gamblers, which are different) appeared in Gary Alan Fine's SHARED FANTASIES: ROLEPLAYING GAMES AS SOCIAL WORLDS in 1983--eight pages of of cool sociological observation of patently crazy behaviour that will be familiar to anyone who's ever chucked a d20. He then segues into the great unspoken topic of RPGs: people who cheat on their dice rolls, and how, and why. Forty years old and it's still a fascinating read.
posted by Hogshead at 4:00 AM on December 12, 2022
posted by Hogshead at 4:00 AM on December 12, 2022
The thing about more recent editions is that the game is most interesting, I think at least , at low levels, characters rise in power pretty quickly, and level growth is such that characters are rarely low level for long. Fifth edition characters reach level 2 at just 300 xp, and level 3 at 900! The game is desperate to get characters out of those low levels where they're meaningfully fragile.
I feel like maybe early levels should be stretched out a lot more, and higher levels should be reduced in power. I'm not alone, a while back someone remixed 5th edition so that the highest level was 6. At that point, you might get minor advantages as you gained further experience, but your character's main abilities were capped. That might be going a bit too far though, it definitely means players can't fight higher-tier opponents.
Another thing that annoys me about 5th edition is how long it takes to play. Early on I heard that combats were much quicker than 3rd edition, so that a group could get through a whole standard length adventure in one session (which is along the lines of the pace of early editions), and it is somewhat faster, but we still rarely get through more than two encounters in a session.
The rate of progress per session is a problem for us because of the high chance that a player will have to miss one week or other. If that happens twice in a row, meaning we can't play, there is then a very high chance that that adventure will just be forgotten about, and the next time we play we'll end up starting from scratch, which is highly demoralizing, enough so that it's been difficult to actually get me into our group for months now, it just feels like it's almost pointless.
I am trying to come up with ways to increase the speed of play. Reducing the number of combats is one, relying on other threats and general exploration to take up more of the adventure, but the way D&D is constructed this is a little unbalancing. Combat is still a major part of the game, the threat of monster attention is used a lot, and most class abilities are geared towards giving them fighting advantage.
The other solution would be to make combat faster. I could enforce strict time limits on player turns, demanding that players figure out their move during other players' turns, but later editions give players so many abilities that it takes time just to catalog all of the available options. I've toyed with resolving minor, non-lethal encounters with an alternate system, maybe rolling a die and if it comes up over a certain value letting the players through without consuming resources, but if it goes below picking one or two characters to be subjected to a monster attack, but that deprives characters of many of their cool abilities.
I'm open to suggestions as to what could be done!
posted by JHarris at 6:04 AM on December 12, 2022
I feel like maybe early levels should be stretched out a lot more, and higher levels should be reduced in power. I'm not alone, a while back someone remixed 5th edition so that the highest level was 6. At that point, you might get minor advantages as you gained further experience, but your character's main abilities were capped. That might be going a bit too far though, it definitely means players can't fight higher-tier opponents.
Another thing that annoys me about 5th edition is how long it takes to play. Early on I heard that combats were much quicker than 3rd edition, so that a group could get through a whole standard length adventure in one session (which is along the lines of the pace of early editions), and it is somewhat faster, but we still rarely get through more than two encounters in a session.
The rate of progress per session is a problem for us because of the high chance that a player will have to miss one week or other. If that happens twice in a row, meaning we can't play, there is then a very high chance that that adventure will just be forgotten about, and the next time we play we'll end up starting from scratch, which is highly demoralizing, enough so that it's been difficult to actually get me into our group for months now, it just feels like it's almost pointless.
I am trying to come up with ways to increase the speed of play. Reducing the number of combats is one, relying on other threats and general exploration to take up more of the adventure, but the way D&D is constructed this is a little unbalancing. Combat is still a major part of the game, the threat of monster attention is used a lot, and most class abilities are geared towards giving them fighting advantage.
The other solution would be to make combat faster. I could enforce strict time limits on player turns, demanding that players figure out their move during other players' turns, but later editions give players so many abilities that it takes time just to catalog all of the available options. I've toyed with resolving minor, non-lethal encounters with an alternate system, maybe rolling a die and if it comes up over a certain value letting the players through without consuming resources, but if it goes below picking one or two characters to be subjected to a monster attack, but that deprives characters of many of their cool abilities.
I'm open to suggestions as to what could be done!
posted by JHarris at 6:04 AM on December 12, 2022
i used to punish my d20s by putting them in the microwave for a few seconds every time they failed me
i was a... strange kid
posted by Baby_Balrog at 8:37 AM on December 12, 2022 [1 favorite]
i was a... strange kid
posted by Baby_Balrog at 8:37 AM on December 12, 2022 [1 favorite]
The rate of progress per session is a problem for us because of the high chance that a player will have to miss one week or other. If that happens twice in a row, meaning we can't play, there is then a very high chance that that adventure will just be forgotten about, and the next time we play we'll end up starting from scratch, which is highly demoralizing, enough so that it's been difficult to actually get me into our group for months now, it just feels like it's almost pointless.
You may want to look into a West Marches style campaign, which is designed around not having every player available at every session. You could also look into the ways that Adventurers' League (the formal WotC sponsored D&D drop in campaign system) handles this as well.
The thing about more recent editions is that the game is most interesting, I think at least , at low levels, characters rise in power pretty quickly, and level growth is such that characters are rarely low level for long. Fifth edition characters reach level 2 at just 300 xp, and level 3 at 900! The game is desperate to get characters out of those low levels where they're meaningfully fragile.
I don't really agree with this - I think the problem is that it can be difficult to evolve the campaign as players get both more capable and more visible. The bigger problem is that as the characters grow, they evolve out of the core strengths of the game system, which exacerbates the above.
posted by NoxAeternum at 1:43 PM on December 12, 2022 [2 favorites]
You may want to look into a West Marches style campaign, which is designed around not having every player available at every session. You could also look into the ways that Adventurers' League (the formal WotC sponsored D&D drop in campaign system) handles this as well.
The thing about more recent editions is that the game is most interesting, I think at least , at low levels, characters rise in power pretty quickly, and level growth is such that characters are rarely low level for long. Fifth edition characters reach level 2 at just 300 xp, and level 3 at 900! The game is desperate to get characters out of those low levels where they're meaningfully fragile.
I don't really agree with this - I think the problem is that it can be difficult to evolve the campaign as players get both more capable and more visible. The bigger problem is that as the characters grow, they evolve out of the core strengths of the game system, which exacerbates the above.
posted by NoxAeternum at 1:43 PM on December 12, 2022 [2 favorites]
"Why have there been so many flavors of D&D?"
Having played many of them (and bounced hard off of a couple), as well many of the penumbra of related games (copies, revivals, inspired bys), I've come to think that there are a few major drivers:
- The complexity growth problem. Each edition of D&D has started with relatively small core of rules, which get expanded upon for the next few years. New books of options come out, new items for the players to use, new monsters. Eventually, it becomes too complex to understand by even the hardcore player base, and is bewildering and very expensive! for newer players. A new edition is the big red button to reset all of that. Fifth edition has lasted as long as it has in part because WotC has been relatively slow in releasing new player-option material for it. That's given 5e a longer lifetime than some previous editions.
- A revenue refresh for Wizards. A new edition means that WotC can force players to rebuy all the new core books again (typically 3 of them at $75 each), and recently move that out to a digital subscription service too. Each edition has seen Wizards experiment with new on-line versions as well. That seems to be where their heads are at in terms of selling a lot of newer content. A new edition tends to be a bright line they can establish new products/services for.
- New playstyles. D&D, as one of the oldest systems for RPGs out there has a lot of "legacy debt" A new edition is a once-a-decade chance for the designers to really fix some of the accumulated problems and frankly bugs in the old rules, as well as express their own creativity and genuinely develop something new. Or steal neat ideas from other games. Bit of both. Good gameplay that respects the D&D legacy, while being accessible and fun to play is a major concern for player satisfaction. A game that's unfun to play, that drags or is too hard to DM can even become a larger problem than the previous two factors---this can mean a new edition has to come quicker than planned or desired in terms of the optimal revenue stream. But it has to happen for the game to survive and grow an audience.
Fifth edition has been a smashing success by all these factors. Wizards has limited complexity growth. They've metered out new content mostly in terms of new adventures to play to keep the player-base buying product, but not feeling like they're being fleeced by a flood of cheap product. The 5e core game too has proven to be very robust and I think more people are more satisfied with the 5e system than ever have been with any other edition.
But now it is showing its age. It does have infelicities and bugs and bits people really want to see changed. The complexity is creeping up. And Hasbro desperately wants to increase D&D monetization. So we're looking at a new edition in 2024.
posted by bonehead at 8:45 AM on December 14, 2022
Having played many of them (and bounced hard off of a couple), as well many of the penumbra of related games (copies, revivals, inspired bys), I've come to think that there are a few major drivers:
- The complexity growth problem. Each edition of D&D has started with relatively small core of rules, which get expanded upon for the next few years. New books of options come out, new items for the players to use, new monsters. Eventually, it becomes too complex to understand by even the hardcore player base, and is bewildering and very expensive! for newer players. A new edition is the big red button to reset all of that. Fifth edition has lasted as long as it has in part because WotC has been relatively slow in releasing new player-option material for it. That's given 5e a longer lifetime than some previous editions.
- A revenue refresh for Wizards. A new edition means that WotC can force players to rebuy all the new core books again (typically 3 of them at $75 each), and recently move that out to a digital subscription service too. Each edition has seen Wizards experiment with new on-line versions as well. That seems to be where their heads are at in terms of selling a lot of newer content. A new edition tends to be a bright line they can establish new products/services for.
- New playstyles. D&D, as one of the oldest systems for RPGs out there has a lot of "legacy debt" A new edition is a once-a-decade chance for the designers to really fix some of the accumulated problems and frankly bugs in the old rules, as well as express their own creativity and genuinely develop something new. Or steal neat ideas from other games. Bit of both. Good gameplay that respects the D&D legacy, while being accessible and fun to play is a major concern for player satisfaction. A game that's unfun to play, that drags or is too hard to DM can even become a larger problem than the previous two factors---this can mean a new edition has to come quicker than planned or desired in terms of the optimal revenue stream. But it has to happen for the game to survive and grow an audience.
Fifth edition has been a smashing success by all these factors. Wizards has limited complexity growth. They've metered out new content mostly in terms of new adventures to play to keep the player-base buying product, but not feeling like they're being fleeced by a flood of cheap product. The 5e core game too has proven to be very robust and I think more people are more satisfied with the 5e system than ever have been with any other edition.
But now it is showing its age. It does have infelicities and bugs and bits people really want to see changed. The complexity is creeping up. And Hasbro desperately wants to increase D&D monetization. So we're looking at a new edition in 2024.
posted by bonehead at 8:45 AM on December 14, 2022
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All the dice were fine.
posted by hydrophonic at 8:12 PM on December 9, 2022 [29 favorites]