"You don't want little children questioning their budding little bodies"
December 12, 2022 1:56 PM Subscribe
I feel for his kid. The mortification.
posted by triage_lazarus at 2:21 PM on December 12, 2022
posted by triage_lazarus at 2:21 PM on December 12, 2022
I really appreciate Judd Legum's work and I'm glad I subscribe to his newsletter to pay for him doing it. But it's really telling about our news environment that he has to get directly paid for the work he does when so many other big media outlets pick up stories like this. They're good stories that need to be told but if local media in Florida (and everywhere else) weren't hollowed out, they could have picked up on this themselves.
posted by gentlyepigrams at 2:34 PM on December 12, 2022 [6 favorites]
posted by gentlyepigrams at 2:34 PM on December 12, 2022 [6 favorites]
I had some funny, cutting comments to make, but deleted them because this is just so sad. What a terrible person.
posted by OrangeDisk at 2:49 PM on December 12, 2022 [6 favorites]
posted by OrangeDisk at 2:49 PM on December 12, 2022 [6 favorites]
Sounds like his son is being harmed more at home than he ever would be reading a book.
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 2:50 PM on December 12, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 2:50 PM on December 12, 2022 [3 favorites]
"Public schools are starting to resemble re-education camps and our cities have turned into the killing fields," [No Left Turn in Education, a right-wing educational group] wrote on Facebook. "It's beginning to feel like Pol Pot's Cambodia."
Jesus fucking christ. The bile rises in my throat when I see this shit. Not one shred of decency these people have.
posted by Saxon Kane at 2:51 PM on December 12, 2022 [18 favorites]
Jesus fucking christ. The bile rises in my throat when I see this shit. Not one shred of decency these people have.
posted by Saxon Kane at 2:51 PM on December 12, 2022 [18 favorites]
I don't always buy the "whoever smelt it dealt it" explanation for stuff like this but this guy and people like him are perverts.
posted by babelfish at 2:58 PM on December 12, 2022 [5 favorites]
posted by babelfish at 2:58 PM on December 12, 2022 [5 favorites]
Friedman is the president and founder of the Florida chapter of No Left Turn in Education, a right-wing educational group
LOL
posted by JohnFromGR at 3:13 PM on December 12, 2022 [3 favorites]
LOL
posted by JohnFromGR at 3:13 PM on December 12, 2022 [3 favorites]
Can we fix the link so it doesn’t deprive the author of his primary revenue source?
posted by adamsc at 3:17 PM on December 12, 2022 [9 favorites]
posted by adamsc at 3:17 PM on December 12, 2022 [9 favorites]
Also available in abridged format, via the author's Mastodon account.
posted by meowzilla at 3:24 PM on December 12, 2022
posted by meowzilla at 3:24 PM on December 12, 2022
Chiming in to add another recommendation for the (free if you want) Popular Information newsletter. Actual, follow-the-money, investigative journalism that is consistently in front of important stories.
posted by swift at 3:45 PM on December 12, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by swift at 3:45 PM on December 12, 2022 [2 favorites]
Someone needs to start filing, repeatedly, complaints about The Bible, with legitimate claims that it supports genocide and rape with the stories it tells, repeatedly, across the entire first "half" of the book.
posted by hippybear at 3:45 PM on December 12, 2022 [23 favorites]
posted by hippybear at 3:45 PM on December 12, 2022 [23 favorites]
I think I recall that at least one person has done what you mention.
posted by Splunge at 3:48 PM on December 12, 2022 [4 favorites]
posted by Splunge at 3:48 PM on December 12, 2022 [4 favorites]
"Friedman said he learned about Fishbein when she appeared on Tucker Carlson's show."
Ahh, ok. SMDH. Tucker Carlson that noxious mist of toxic, deformed ideas was once again released by the Murdochs onto the people, to sow fear, profound ignorance, and hatred.
posted by nikoniko at 3:55 PM on December 12, 2022 [2 favorites]
Ahh, ok. SMDH. Tucker Carlson that noxious mist of toxic, deformed ideas was once again released by the Murdochs onto the people, to sow fear, profound ignorance, and hatred.
posted by nikoniko at 3:55 PM on December 12, 2022 [2 favorites]
Someone needs to start filing, repeatedly, complaints about The Bible
You can literally pull any book, without having any real reason, "because of a new policy, implemented in July, that requires books to be pulled as soon as a challenge has been properly filed."
So there's nothing stopping someone from removing every single book in the library just by abusing the policy.
And the books may not even be replaced because "Clay County librarians have been prohibited from purchasing any new books or even new copies of books that are already on the shelves."
This is, of course, by design.
posted by swift at 4:03 PM on December 12, 2022 [9 favorites]
You can literally pull any book, without having any real reason, "because of a new policy, implemented in July, that requires books to be pulled as soon as a challenge has been properly filed."
So there's nothing stopping someone from removing every single book in the library just by abusing the policy.
And the books may not even be replaced because "Clay County librarians have been prohibited from purchasing any new books or even new copies of books that are already on the shelves."
This is, of course, by design.
posted by swift at 4:03 PM on December 12, 2022 [9 favorites]
Said it before, gonna keep saying it:
Get on library boards. Get on school boards. Vent, then organize.
posted by humbug at 4:16 PM on December 12, 2022 [19 favorites]
Get on library boards. Get on school boards. Vent, then organize.
posted by humbug at 4:16 PM on December 12, 2022 [19 favorites]
MeFi's own Saundra Mitchell (headspace) just gave a really informative talk about this very same topic for MeFi Events! Glad to see this being discussed more on the blue.
posted by aielen at 4:18 PM on December 12, 2022 [5 favorites]
posted by aielen at 4:18 PM on December 12, 2022 [5 favorites]
Where do the banners get the list of books that they put on their naughty list? Somebody had to put in the work of compiling a list of 3000 books.
posted by jonp72 at 4:27 PM on December 12, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by jonp72 at 4:27 PM on December 12, 2022 [1 favorite]
Since this is Clay County Library Policy, I wonder what it would take to simply, you know, make proper filing have a bit more of a barrier, or maybe (this would be crazy, I know!) have a clause for dealing with parties abusing the policy by acting in bad faith?
Or maybe - just maybe, I know I'm dreaming here - have a step between "properly filed challenge" and "pulling the book in question"?
Just spitballing here.
posted by Navelgazer at 4:46 PM on December 12, 2022 [2 favorites]
Or maybe - just maybe, I know I'm dreaming here - have a step between "properly filed challenge" and "pulling the book in question"?
Just spitballing here.
posted by Navelgazer at 4:46 PM on December 12, 2022 [2 favorites]
Where do the banners get the list of books that they put on their naughty list?
In my experience someone starts a list which gets passed around and just grows, without reason or attribution. And because the people doing this are amoral imbeciles,.they're not bothered in the least about listing books because of the title, or the identity of the author,.or anything other than actually reading them, because the people we're dealing with don't read.
posted by 1adam12 at 5:00 PM on December 12, 2022 [3 favorites]
In my experience someone starts a list which gets passed around and just grows, without reason or attribution. And because the people doing this are amoral imbeciles,.they're not bothered in the least about listing books because of the title, or the identity of the author,.or anything other than actually reading them, because the people we're dealing with don't read.
posted by 1adam12 at 5:00 PM on December 12, 2022 [3 favorites]
Where do the banners get the list of books that they put on their naughty list?
In my experience someone starts a list which gets passed around and just grows, without reason or attribution.
Something similar happened to us when I was working in agricultural education, of all things. The book we chose for our annual primary school reading project was about the journey of milk from the cow to the cheese on a pizza. We got put on the mailing list of some nutrition crank, and we got buried in nasty letters from people saying we were promoting unhealthy eating habits for children. And some of the cranks on that list passed it on to other lists, and they told two friends, and they told two friends, and so on... It's easy to get people whipped up by claiming to be "protecting children."
posted by The Underpants Monster at 5:41 PM on December 12, 2022 [4 favorites]
In my experience someone starts a list which gets passed around and just grows, without reason or attribution.
Something similar happened to us when I was working in agricultural education, of all things. The book we chose for our annual primary school reading project was about the journey of milk from the cow to the cheese on a pizza. We got put on the mailing list of some nutrition crank, and we got buried in nasty letters from people saying we were promoting unhealthy eating habits for children. And some of the cranks on that list passed it on to other lists, and they told two friends, and they told two friends, and so on... It's easy to get people whipped up by claiming to be "protecting children."
posted by The Underpants Monster at 5:41 PM on December 12, 2022 [4 favorites]
Someone needs to start filing, repeatedly, complaints about The Bible, with legitimate claims that it supports genocide and rape with the stories it tells, repeatedly, across the entire first "half" of the book.
The second half isn't all love and forgiveness either. But in any case, this wouldn't work because the right-wingers you'd expect to be bothered by this don't care. They have their own bibles at home, no doubt, but it isn't like they give a shit about reading them or putting in any significant thought into the material within. They'd be happy if you took every book out of the library, because the idea of allowing anyone -- especially children! -- to explore ideas and think for themselves is anathema to their whole philosophy.
posted by Saxon Kane at 6:18 PM on December 12, 2022 [4 favorites]
The second half isn't all love and forgiveness either. But in any case, this wouldn't work because the right-wingers you'd expect to be bothered by this don't care. They have their own bibles at home, no doubt, but it isn't like they give a shit about reading them or putting in any significant thought into the material within. They'd be happy if you took every book out of the library, because the idea of allowing anyone -- especially children! -- to explore ideas and think for themselves is anathema to their whole philosophy.
posted by Saxon Kane at 6:18 PM on December 12, 2022 [4 favorites]
Welcome to my world. And, of course, it's another year and a half before we can even attempt to get reasonable people into the school board.
posted by jferg at 6:21 PM on December 12, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by jferg at 6:21 PM on December 12, 2022 [2 favorites]
Eventually, Clay County began to reject Freidman's challenges as incomplete because they do not include any real explanation of the objection.
They should have been rejected from day one. "Protect Children" is an ambiguous reason, and "inappropriate content" is not a description of what's objected to.
While I do think men like him should ultimately be considered actually dangerous, this kind of action should be treated with the same seriousness as a prank. Just laugh at it and dismiss it. Keep the forms as evidence that someone did this with dozens of books and that it wasn't serious. You wouldn't take it seriously if some rowdy 13-year-olds did this for a lark, so why take it seriously when a manchild does it?
posted by explosion at 6:56 PM on December 12, 2022 [11 favorites]
They should have been rejected from day one. "Protect Children" is an ambiguous reason, and "inappropriate content" is not a description of what's objected to.
While I do think men like him should ultimately be considered actually dangerous, this kind of action should be treated with the same seriousness as a prank. Just laugh at it and dismiss it. Keep the forms as evidence that someone did this with dozens of books and that it wasn't serious. You wouldn't take it seriously if some rowdy 13-year-olds did this for a lark, so why take it seriously when a manchild does it?
posted by explosion at 6:56 PM on December 12, 2022 [11 favorites]
→
I am so sorry, jferg. My inlaws are from Independence and Liberty, and pretty much live for the library
posted by scruss at 7:15 PM on December 12, 2022 [1 favorite]
Welcome to my world.
I am so sorry, jferg. My inlaws are from Independence and Liberty, and pretty much live for the library
posted by scruss at 7:15 PM on December 12, 2022 [1 favorite]
So there's nothing stopping someone from removing every single book in the library just by abusing the policy.
What if someone did just that? Would it finally cause a backlash?
Just thinking out loud.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 7:46 PM on December 12, 2022 [3 favorites]
What if someone did just that? Would it finally cause a backlash?
Just thinking out loud.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 7:46 PM on December 12, 2022 [3 favorites]
I mean, have you read Leviticus?
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 7:50 PM on December 12, 2022 [4 favorites]
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 7:50 PM on December 12, 2022 [4 favorites]
Someone needs to start filing, repeatedly, complaints about The Bible, with legitimate claims that it supports genocide and rape with the stories it tells, repeatedly, across the entire first "half" of the book.
Hey, if MeFites want to do this, or some other type of trolling of the Right, I'm in. Let's organize it.
posted by pelvicsorcery at 8:12 PM on December 12, 2022 [1 favorite]
Hey, if MeFites want to do this, or some other type of trolling of the Right, I'm in. Let's organize it.
posted by pelvicsorcery at 8:12 PM on December 12, 2022 [1 favorite]
So there's nothing stopping someone from removing every single book in the library just by abusing the policy.
What if someone did just that? Would it finally cause a backlash?
For decades, fiscal conservatives have been insisting that libraries aren't necessary because the internet exists. For decades, fiscal conservatives have been insisting that libraries are a waste of taxpayer money.
Public libraries have already been defunded in Michigan over these controversies (and I think there are some other towns where similar things are in the works).
The people whipping up moral panics about these books are a tiny extreme minority, but their interests align very well with the much larger number of people who would be very happy to shut down every library for fiscal reasons - or leave it as a shell of itself, open for ten hours a week, staffed by volunteers, with no budget for new books - and for that reason I would be really careful about trying to cause a backlash.
posted by Jeanne at 8:13 PM on December 12, 2022 [13 favorites]
What if someone did just that? Would it finally cause a backlash?
For decades, fiscal conservatives have been insisting that libraries aren't necessary because the internet exists. For decades, fiscal conservatives have been insisting that libraries are a waste of taxpayer money.
Public libraries have already been defunded in Michigan over these controversies (and I think there are some other towns where similar things are in the works).
The people whipping up moral panics about these books are a tiny extreme minority, but their interests align very well with the much larger number of people who would be very happy to shut down every library for fiscal reasons - or leave it as a shell of itself, open for ten hours a week, staffed by volunteers, with no budget for new books - and for that reason I would be really careful about trying to cause a backlash.
posted by Jeanne at 8:13 PM on December 12, 2022 [13 favorites]
With all the problems we face in this world, this is how people spend their time and energy. I'm so tired. So many of my cherished books, that I'm going to be so happy to share with the children in my life as they grow up, would be targeted by assclowns like this guy. I'll have to look into how I can contribute to protecting kids from people that want what they read to be conformist unchallenging queer-free Veggietales-ass bullshit pablum. Maybe there's something I can do. I refuse to cede hope to f*@$ing extremist YouTube/Facebook/chan-brained chuds playing bad faith games in support of their fringe ideology.
posted by signsofrain at 8:17 PM on December 12, 2022 [5 favorites]
posted by signsofrain at 8:17 PM on December 12, 2022 [5 favorites]
I support adding a $20 new-book-fund review fee required to challenge a book, as you are taking time away from other duties. You want to challenge 1000 books? $20,000 please.
posted by fings at 6:01 AM on December 13, 2022 [5 favorites]
posted by fings at 6:01 AM on December 13, 2022 [5 favorites]
So there's nothing stopping someone from removing every single book in the library just by abusing the policy.
From my perspective, that's a fast better strategy than picking one book, like the bible (which I'm pretty sure no one checks out of the library). Pick Stephen King, the NYT best sellers, the books people are trying to check out, and you'll make your point very quickly.
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 6:01 AM on December 13, 2022 [2 favorites]
From my perspective, that's a fast better strategy than picking one book, like the bible (which I'm pretty sure no one checks out of the library). Pick Stephen King, the NYT best sellers, the books people are trying to check out, and you'll make your point very quickly.
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 6:01 AM on December 13, 2022 [2 favorites]
Saxon Kane: “They'd be happy if you took every book out of the library, because the idea of allowing anyone -- especially children! -- to explore ideas and think for themselves is anathema to their whole philosophy.”It seems to me that there must be a reckoning with authoritarian parenting in this country, and that this is what conservatives really fear.
posted by ob1quixote at 7:29 AM on December 13, 2022 [2 favorites]
Evidence that getting on library boards works to deflect this crap.
posted by humbug at 8:36 AM on December 13, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by humbug at 8:36 AM on December 13, 2022 [1 favorite]
[The Girl from the Sea] exposes students to "a land of girls making out with great illustrations."
This guy has an unintentional career as a generator of highly effective book-cover quotes.
posted by gurple at 8:50 AM on December 13, 2022 [3 favorites]
This guy has an unintentional career as a generator of highly effective book-cover quotes.
posted by gurple at 8:50 AM on December 13, 2022 [3 favorites]
School boards rather than library boards, but I was also very inspired by this piece on progressive efforts in Wake County, NC to stop Moms 4 Liberty from taking over the school boards. (I went to high school and middle school in Wake County, so thinking about the queer kids I knew back then and the homophobia in the atmosphere, it feels kind of personal.)
posted by Jeanne at 8:52 AM on December 13, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by Jeanne at 8:52 AM on December 13, 2022 [3 favorites]
Other phrases this guy uses: "slightly post-pubescent little lesbians," "kissing, or petting or anything else in that general territory," "your awful, awful procedures and policies," "on very rare occasions, I would meet a sexually aggressive homosexual person and have words with them."
I'm curious about how this person comes off in person.
posted by box at 9:01 AM on December 13, 2022 [1 favorite]
I'm curious about how this person comes off in person.
posted by box at 9:01 AM on December 13, 2022 [1 favorite]
It seems to me that there must be a reckoning with authoritarian parenting in this country, and that this is what conservatives really fear.
Abso-fucking-lutely.
posted by Saxon Kane at 10:01 AM on December 13, 2022 [1 favorite]
Abso-fucking-lutely.
posted by Saxon Kane at 10:01 AM on December 13, 2022 [1 favorite]
I don't always buy the "whoever smelt it dealt it" explanation for stuff like this but this guy and people like him are perverts.
Given that this guy apparently trolls dozens of YA books each week looking for prurient content, I can't help but agree.
posted by Ben Trismegistus at 10:26 AM on December 13, 2022
Given that this guy apparently trolls dozens of YA books each week looking for prurient content, I can't help but agree.
posted by Ben Trismegistus at 10:26 AM on December 13, 2022
I love how he's totally OK with gay characters as long as they stay in their place in supporting roles and don't, you know, kiss people they're attracted to.
posted by The Underpants Monster at 11:05 AM on December 13, 2022
posted by The Underpants Monster at 11:05 AM on December 13, 2022
I just get the feeling that anything that makes him even slightly warm and tingly is cause for removal in his mind. You don't spend that much time looking for what you consider smut if you're not truly interested in the smut.
posted by hippybear at 11:07 AM on December 13, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by hippybear at 11:07 AM on December 13, 2022 [2 favorites]
You don't spend that much time looking for what you consider smut if you're not truly interested in the smut.
"Want to see child porn? Join the vice squad!"
J.Biafra + The Melvins, "Plethysmograph"
posted by FatherDagon at 8:25 AM on December 14, 2022 [1 favorite]
"Want to see child porn? Join the vice squad!"
J.Biafra + The Melvins, "Plethysmograph"
posted by FatherDagon at 8:25 AM on December 14, 2022 [1 favorite]
"on very rare occasions, I would meet a sexually aggressive homosexual person and have words with them."
I think this guy is the true story behind the classic Onion op-ed, "Why do all these homosexuals keep sucking my cock?"
posted by Saxon Kane at 11:23 AM on December 14, 2022 [1 favorite]
I think this guy is the true story behind the classic Onion op-ed, "Why do all these homosexuals keep sucking my cock?"
posted by Saxon Kane at 11:23 AM on December 14, 2022 [1 favorite]
I used to be on the materials review committee of the public library I still work for, which means I was part of the group which would review official requests for removal of material from the collection by the public. Interested parties had to fill out a mandatory three or four-page form explaining their reasoning, which we would (along with the material in question) review and then come to a decision...which was almost always to retain, because the bar for removal was (rightly) set very high. Basically, for us to remove a book from the collection it pretty much had to qualify as hate literature under Canadian law, or be defective in some way (we removed a translation of The Idiot because someone noticed it was riddled with errors). One book we reviewed was a right-wing piece of Rush Limbaugh-esque trash about their objections to feminism, political correctness, etc., but I and everyone else (reluctantly, in my case at least) voted to retain it because as hateful and stupid as it was it fell within the bounds of reasonable discourse...again, within Canadian law. There were a few cases where we moved things from the children's section to teens, or from teens to adults, but I think only two or three books were removed from the collection during the entire time (five years or so) I was on the committee; one was the aforementioned edition of The Idiot, one was a non-English book which turned out to actually be hate literature and the other was a kids' picture book which was a real edge case (I voted to retain it, but it's a majority vote).
Anyway, the point is it should be very, very difficult for a member of the public to decide that something isn't fit for the broader community to have access to, because otherwise it just comes down to the political/religious/etc. preferences of individuals, so if I was going to vote to remove that right-wing book I couldn't have objected to someone more conservative than me voting to remove a book with liberal ideas they didn't like.
posted by The Card Cheat at 2:28 PM on December 14, 2022 [2 favorites]
Anyway, the point is it should be very, very difficult for a member of the public to decide that something isn't fit for the broader community to have access to, because otherwise it just comes down to the political/religious/etc. preferences of individuals, so if I was going to vote to remove that right-wing book I couldn't have objected to someone more conservative than me voting to remove a book with liberal ideas they didn't like.
posted by The Card Cheat at 2:28 PM on December 14, 2022 [2 favorites]
This happened just before I joined the committee, but it gives you an idea of some of the sorts of requests we used to get. When I was on there, someone wanted us to pull Atonement because they thought it was "of low quality," and also demanded that we review "all" of the library's material to make sure it was good enough.
posted by The Card Cheat at 2:32 PM on December 14, 2022
posted by The Card Cheat at 2:32 PM on December 14, 2022
I don’t TikTok, but one of my colleagues made this video about some of the reasons people give when challenging library books.
posted by box at 5:14 PM on December 14, 2022
posted by box at 5:14 PM on December 14, 2022
Ha, that's awesome, box! The looks on his face are priceless.
posted by The Underpants Monster at 7:29 PM on December 14, 2022
posted by The Underpants Monster at 7:29 PM on December 14, 2022
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posted by Joey Michaels at 2:19 PM on December 12, 2022 [15 favorites]