Show me on a map where it's safe for trans kids.
December 14, 2022 1:34 AM Subscribe
I'm the mom of a trans kid in Texas. Stop asking me why we don't move to a 'safer' state. Raising a kid is hard work. Raising a trans kid in Texas is even harder. Yet I grimace when people ask me, "Why don't you just move?" The better question is, "Why don't you just help?" Placing the blame on me — a mother who has endured death and rape threats just for daring to confront Texas lawmakers on their cruelty toward my son — is hurtful, irresponsible, and, quite frankly, privileged. We have built our lives here. We can't just leave.
We can't just leave
While we are middle class, we don't have the means to leave the state easily. My husband is a tenured college professor — few are hiring for that position these days. He can't just give up his job, the one that provides health insurance for our entire family, and work as an underpaid adjunct professor somewhere else.
I own a small business with a team of 25 people who count on me to help them pay their bills. It's not like I can transfer to another branch out of state. It's unfair to expect me to sell the business I built literally with my bare hands over the course of a decade and walk away from everything, just because the current governor thinks that attacking trans kids and their loving families is a winning political strategy.
It hurts that loving my son has become a radical political act here in Texas. Yet I love this state. I love the hardworking, bootstrapping attitude of my fellow Texans. I love the food, the diversity, the incredible sunsets, and even the heat. My son is thriving in school, sports, and activities. He's loved and supported by his friends, our church, his coaches and teammates, and our community. We would lose more than we would gain by moving.
For all of its faults, we love the life that we've built here and want to enjoy it for years to come. Most importantly, my son's rights should matter regardless of his area code. Last I checked, he's an American, too.
Amber Briggle's site
TED talk: Transgender kids are just kids after all
We can't just leave
While we are middle class, we don't have the means to leave the state easily. My husband is a tenured college professor — few are hiring for that position these days. He can't just give up his job, the one that provides health insurance for our entire family, and work as an underpaid adjunct professor somewhere else.
I own a small business with a team of 25 people who count on me to help them pay their bills. It's not like I can transfer to another branch out of state. It's unfair to expect me to sell the business I built literally with my bare hands over the course of a decade and walk away from everything, just because the current governor thinks that attacking trans kids and their loving families is a winning political strategy.
It hurts that loving my son has become a radical political act here in Texas. Yet I love this state. I love the hardworking, bootstrapping attitude of my fellow Texans. I love the food, the diversity, the incredible sunsets, and even the heat. My son is thriving in school, sports, and activities. He's loved and supported by his friends, our church, his coaches and teammates, and our community. We would lose more than we would gain by moving.
For all of its faults, we love the life that we've built here and want to enjoy it for years to come. Most importantly, my son's rights should matter regardless of his area code. Last I checked, he's an American, too.
Amber Briggle's site
TED talk: Transgender kids are just kids after all
Very thoughtful piece. Thanks! (I love several people in Texas. They're scared. But also staying and working to improve things.)
One of my friends volunteers as an abortion doula in the rural deep south, and is stuck there for very similar reasons. She's complained about similar comments from people like me. (Not actually me.) That said, I am applying to jobs outside of the US at the moment, 'cause even in a big city in very liberal northern state, things are looking kind of scary. That's both very privileged and perhaps cowardly.
posted by eotvos at 3:05 AM on December 14, 2022 [1 favorite]
One of my friends volunteers as an abortion doula in the rural deep south, and is stuck there for very similar reasons. She's complained about similar comments from people like me. (Not actually me.) That said, I am applying to jobs outside of the US at the moment, 'cause even in a big city in very liberal northern state, things are looking kind of scary. That's both very privileged and perhaps cowardly.
posted by eotvos at 3:05 AM on December 14, 2022 [1 favorite]
Amber Briggle doesn’t say this, but it’s up to people who live in safe states like I do to do what we can to protect people like them no matter where they live in the US.
It’s hard to know where to begin, but Federal charges against utterly corrupt Texas Attorney General Ken Paxton might be a good start.
posted by jamjam at 3:35 AM on December 14, 2022 [11 favorites]
It’s hard to know where to begin, but Federal charges against utterly corrupt Texas Attorney General Ken Paxton might be a good start.
posted by jamjam at 3:35 AM on December 14, 2022 [11 favorites]
we've been teaching people that this is how you "resolve" conflict, especially when dealing with bigots - that you are "obliged" to leave, instead of the bigot being told that they need to learn to live in peace or leave.
THIS. THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS.
When the bully is a kid we tell the victim that "they're just jealous of you" or "they have a bad home situation" and encourage them to feel empathy towards their attacker. When the bully is an adult we tell the victim to remove themselves from the situation.
I have never understood why in the holy blue fuck we never tell the BULLY "hey, don't do that."
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 3:42 AM on December 14, 2022 [66 favorites]
THIS. THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS.
When the bully is a kid we tell the victim that "they're just jealous of you" or "they have a bad home situation" and encourage them to feel empathy towards their attacker. When the bully is an adult we tell the victim to remove themselves from the situation.
I have never understood why in the holy blue fuck we never tell the BULLY "hey, don't do that."
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 3:42 AM on December 14, 2022 [66 favorites]
Unfortunately, there is no short term solution. The long term solution is to vote them out of office. And given Texas is in the Bible Belt, that may be a bit hard.
posted by kschang at 4:18 AM on December 14, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by kschang at 4:18 AM on December 14, 2022 [3 favorites]
The bigot is the state.
posted by Jessica Savitch's Coke Spoon at 4:50 AM on December 14, 2022 [12 favorites]
posted by Jessica Savitch's Coke Spoon at 4:50 AM on December 14, 2022 [12 favorites]
I mean, it's complicated. Texas has blue cities (all the big ones, not just Austin), and its suburbs and rural areas skew one way or the other depending on demographics. Yeah, white Evangelicals form a big bloc, but they're not the only one, and acting as if they are is part of the problem.
posted by nebulawindphone at 4:50 AM on December 14, 2022 [9 favorites]
posted by nebulawindphone at 4:50 AM on December 14, 2022 [9 favorites]
I lived in Louisiana for over a decade, and Louisiana and Texas (especially Southeast Texas) have a really complex, interdependent and frequently beautiful relationship. The hurricane mutual aid that flows back and forth depending on who got hit that year is a great example; so is the Cajun/ Creole culture across the border there. Texas is incredibly complex and includes Tejano culture and Black cowboy culture and all those immigrant communities in Houston; and super shiny Dallas ladies, and Western desert ranch culture, and the Austin music scene, and tech, and other examples I'm not even thinking of right now. There are a lot of reasons to stay in Texas. Plus most of it is gorgeous.
It's almost like an entire country unto itself, really. Which is why it drives me absolutely batshit when the rest of the country flattens Texas into this "evil rednecks driving pickups" stereotype. Texas went 46% for Biden, it's not a monolith. There are "blue" states where the margin wasn't all that much wider.
posted by Nibbly Fang at 5:02 AM on December 14, 2022 [38 favorites]
It's almost like an entire country unto itself, really. Which is why it drives me absolutely batshit when the rest of the country flattens Texas into this "evil rednecks driving pickups" stereotype. Texas went 46% for Biden, it's not a monolith. There are "blue" states where the margin wasn't all that much wider.
posted by Nibbly Fang at 5:02 AM on December 14, 2022 [38 favorites]
"Why don't you just help?"
OK. How, exactly?
The list of things I can do, being someone in a fairly secure area, that will be effective in any meaningful way are small and virtually inconsequential as an individual.
I'm not unsympathetic to the plight. They've made a judgment that as bad as things are, they aren't bad enough, which is a calculation people do all the time in all walks of life.
The awful thing if I were in their shoes would be to advise my child to leave as soon as they're old enough to be independent, or determine for themselves the safety of the situation. Not just for their safety but future advancement. And hope they don't resent me for feeling I put them in harm's way throughout childhood unnecessarily.
I have never understood why in the holy blue fuck we never tell the BULLY "hey, don't do that."
Who is this "we"? If you live in vast areas of the country, "we" practically get personal fulfilment from hate, bullying and bigotry.
posted by 2N2222 at 5:04 AM on December 14, 2022 [15 favorites]
OK. How, exactly?
The list of things I can do, being someone in a fairly secure area, that will be effective in any meaningful way are small and virtually inconsequential as an individual.
I'm not unsympathetic to the plight. They've made a judgment that as bad as things are, they aren't bad enough, which is a calculation people do all the time in all walks of life.
The awful thing if I were in their shoes would be to advise my child to leave as soon as they're old enough to be independent, or determine for themselves the safety of the situation. Not just for their safety but future advancement. And hope they don't resent me for feeling I put them in harm's way throughout childhood unnecessarily.
I have never understood why in the holy blue fuck we never tell the BULLY "hey, don't do that."
Who is this "we"? If you live in vast areas of the country, "we" practically get personal fulfilment from hate, bullying and bigotry.
posted by 2N2222 at 5:04 AM on December 14, 2022 [15 favorites]
Everything in this piece is resonant, and accurate. There's framing, though, that I think makes it clear why people do leave (emphasis mine):
It is unfair and un-American to ask my family to uproot, give up our livelihoods, our home, and everything we've built; expect my children to leave their friends, activities, and school; and move to another part of the US — essentially becoming political refugees in our own country — only to risk having to repeat ourselves every two to four years.
Like many a queer kid, I can nod in agreement with this... and still want to leave. A lot of the difficulty expressed above, though, is about the collective—the we, us of it all. Sometimes, though, you have to make a decision for the you and you alone.
You can and should conisder leaving. Yes, it is unfair to have to consider leaving as a tool in your toolbox. Yes, it is not guaranteed to help you. But... it can definitely help you. This is especially true when you're young, before you feel that the decision is out of your hands as you build a family and a network of your own. It can be hard to see what could possibly be out there that's worth the heartache and difficulty of venturing out on the guarantee of nothing but your own agency. Get out and learn the skills you need without the added pressure of feeling like your life and livelihood is always at risk. It will probably set you back relative to your peers. You may also gain more than your upbringing allowed you to imagine could be yours. If it suits you, come back when you are of a more capable means and help out in-person again. But you don't have to.
Sincerely,
42 year old who made it to 22 before bailing out with a heavy heart, regrets this was my last option, and thrilled to have been a pilgrim in the world ever since.
posted by late afternoon dreaming hotel at 5:04 AM on December 14, 2022 [34 favorites]
It is unfair and un-American to ask my family to uproot, give up our livelihoods, our home, and everything we've built; expect my children to leave their friends, activities, and school; and move to another part of the US — essentially becoming political refugees in our own country — only to risk having to repeat ourselves every two to four years.
Like many a queer kid, I can nod in agreement with this... and still want to leave. A lot of the difficulty expressed above, though, is about the collective—the we, us of it all. Sometimes, though, you have to make a decision for the you and you alone.
You can and should conisder leaving. Yes, it is unfair to have to consider leaving as a tool in your toolbox. Yes, it is not guaranteed to help you. But... it can definitely help you. This is especially true when you're young, before you feel that the decision is out of your hands as you build a family and a network of your own. It can be hard to see what could possibly be out there that's worth the heartache and difficulty of venturing out on the guarantee of nothing but your own agency. Get out and learn the skills you need without the added pressure of feeling like your life and livelihood is always at risk. It will probably set you back relative to your peers. You may also gain more than your upbringing allowed you to imagine could be yours. If it suits you, come back when you are of a more capable means and help out in-person again. But you don't have to.
Sincerely,
42 year old who made it to 22 before bailing out with a heavy heart, regrets this was my last option, and thrilled to have been a pilgrim in the world ever since.
posted by late afternoon dreaming hotel at 5:04 AM on December 14, 2022 [34 favorites]
Writing a long essay about how you're using your career to justify leaving your kid in peril is.... I dunno, I think I'm reacting to this very differently than the rest of you.
There's no place that's fully free of transphobia, and it's wildly unfair that this family might need to pull up their roots and sacrifice their careers to protect their child. Leaving will be incredibly, unfairly painful. But, leaving your kid in harm's way is absolutely a choice.
The fact that the author was compelled to write this essay because so many of their friends and family were vocally concerned about their child's wellbeing sure sounds like a hint that things are really bad for this kid.
posted by schmod at 5:09 AM on December 14, 2022 [47 favorites]
There's no place that's fully free of transphobia, and it's wildly unfair that this family might need to pull up their roots and sacrifice their careers to protect their child. Leaving will be incredibly, unfairly painful. But, leaving your kid in harm's way is absolutely a choice.
The fact that the author was compelled to write this essay because so many of their friends and family were vocally concerned about their child's wellbeing sure sounds like a hint that things are really bad for this kid.
posted by schmod at 5:09 AM on December 14, 2022 [47 favorites]
Whether or not this parent is making the right choice (I don't think she is either), it's, IDK, useful? I think "useful" is the right word? For me to know more about why she finds it so hard to do the right thing. If nothing else, it helps me understand what activists would need to do to make the right thing easier and more popular, and reminds me why it's important to put work into Texas politics rather than declaring the state a lost cause and thinking we can just pull all the trans families out.
Knowing and understanding and remembering don't have to mean liking or approving.
(FWIW, I'm not from Texas but I transitioned there.)
posted by nebulawindphone at 5:16 AM on December 14, 2022 [10 favorites]
Knowing and understanding and remembering don't have to mean liking or approving.
(FWIW, I'm not from Texas but I transitioned there.)
posted by nebulawindphone at 5:16 AM on December 14, 2022 [10 favorites]
I personally liked the love letter to Texas. Very helpful to challenge my stereotypes. It's all to easy to think Texas=Bad and I prefer knowing more about the people who live there by choice or lack of choice. Getting varied perspectives is a main reason I come here.
posted by evilmomlady at 5:45 AM on December 14, 2022 [23 favorites]
posted by evilmomlady at 5:45 AM on December 14, 2022 [23 favorites]
How you can help trans kids in Texas.
It may be true that what you do as an individual is inconsequential, but little things add up. Send what help you can to the folks on the ground in the thick of the fight. Even if it's only words of encouragement.
posted by evilmomlady at 5:50 AM on December 14, 2022 [15 favorites]
It may be true that what you do as an individual is inconsequential, but little things add up. Send what help you can to the folks on the ground in the thick of the fight. Even if it's only words of encouragement.
posted by evilmomlady at 5:50 AM on December 14, 2022 [15 favorites]
The long term solution is to vote them out of office. And given Texas is in the Bible Belt, that may be a bit hard
white Evangelicals form a big bloc, but they're not the only one, and acting as if they are is part of the problem
Collective illusions (YouTube, 31m44s) are situations where most people in a group go along with a view they don't agree with because they incorrectly believe that most people agree with it.
I would expect the occurrence of collective illusions to be very high in a group as rules-driven as Evangelicals, and would strongly encourage any Evangelical who privately understands that trans people are first and foremost people and citizens and that the State has a responsibility to treat them as such to start expressing that view when conversing privately with other Evangelicals.
posted by flabdablet at 5:55 AM on December 14, 2022 [5 favorites]
white Evangelicals form a big bloc, but they're not the only one, and acting as if they are is part of the problem
Collective illusions (YouTube, 31m44s) are situations where most people in a group go along with a view they don't agree with because they incorrectly believe that most people agree with it.
I would expect the occurrence of collective illusions to be very high in a group as rules-driven as Evangelicals, and would strongly encourage any Evangelical who privately understands that trans people are first and foremost people and citizens and that the State has a responsibility to treat them as such to start expressing that view when conversing privately with other Evangelicals.
posted by flabdablet at 5:55 AM on December 14, 2022 [5 favorites]
I’m gonna back that love letter to Texas what with being a trans lady from Louisiana who moved back there of her own volition. The South is *complicated as fuck*, there are insanely liberal spots all over it, and there is a lot of natural beauty. There is also a lot of Republican gerrymandering and that whole unholy alliance Reagan made with the looney Evangelicals and a ton of shit based on essentially trying to act like the Civil War never happened and it is totally okay to enslave people based on the color of their skin. Those blue cities are in the exact same position with regards to the rest of their states that blue states are to the red ones: much more densely packed than the red parts, and paying a huge chunk of the bills for the red parts because they are where commerce happens.
posted by egypturnash at 5:58 AM on December 14, 2022 [32 favorites]
posted by egypturnash at 5:58 AM on December 14, 2022 [32 favorites]
It sounds like in addition to having non-portable jobs, they have built an inclusive and supportive bubble that is large and is meeting their kids' needs. Honestly, unless something changes (like having to transfer to a high school like the one I attended where bullying was open and encouraged by staff), I can't really question their decision. I do think that there's a high likelihood that their kid, when reaching adulthood, might want to move away for opportunities and greater acceptance and community, but some kids do that anyway no matter where you live.
With our most recent move, we had the privilege of being able to make living in a blue area of a blue state a criteria (though it was not the only criteria by any means). If we had instead been searching for jobs and moving to wherever there was greatest opportunity, we might not have been able to prioritize that -- certainly in the last two decades we have spent fairly long stints living in very conservative places because of needing to move for work. Lots and lots of people can't make moving to suit their politics their top or only goal -- they have non-portable jobs, or they have family that they can't leave, or any of a dozen other reasons. "Just move" is ok advice sometimes, but a lot of times it is too simplistic and doesn't address the full range of people's needs.
posted by Dip Flash at 6:19 AM on December 14, 2022 [15 favorites]
With our most recent move, we had the privilege of being able to make living in a blue area of a blue state a criteria (though it was not the only criteria by any means). If we had instead been searching for jobs and moving to wherever there was greatest opportunity, we might not have been able to prioritize that -- certainly in the last two decades we have spent fairly long stints living in very conservative places because of needing to move for work. Lots and lots of people can't make moving to suit their politics their top or only goal -- they have non-portable jobs, or they have family that they can't leave, or any of a dozen other reasons. "Just move" is ok advice sometimes, but a lot of times it is too simplistic and doesn't address the full range of people's needs.
posted by Dip Flash at 6:19 AM on December 14, 2022 [15 favorites]
At the end of the day, history comes for us all. Americans have no living memory of having to flee their homes because of external events, and this entire thing reads as bargaining. Maybe that sounds uncharitable and I don't mean it to; I'm just tired of Americans thinking that they are immune from reality. Yeah, it sucks having to abandon your home and your career in search of physical safety; but that's something that millions of people have to do every single year.
posted by rhymedirective at 6:20 AM on December 14, 2022 [43 favorites]
posted by rhymedirective at 6:20 AM on December 14, 2022 [43 favorites]
We moved to Austin, TX for an academic job, and five years later fled TX because it was awful and seemed like a horrible place to raise our kid. He's 'normal' so far and we're white but my concerns were much more pervasive and broad-spectrum than 'just' safety of trans people and women and POC.
Yes uprooting and fleeing was bad for my career. Great for my overall sanity and quality of life though! Highly recommend, would flee TX again except I'll never live there again.
posted by SaltySalticid at 6:29 AM on December 14, 2022 [21 favorites]
Yes uprooting and fleeing was bad for my career. Great for my overall sanity and quality of life though! Highly recommend, would flee TX again except I'll never live there again.
posted by SaltySalticid at 6:29 AM on December 14, 2022 [21 favorites]
> I have never understood why in the holy blue fuck we never tell the BULLY "hey, don't do that."
Who is this "we"? If you live in vast areas of the country, "we" practically get personal fulfilment from hate, bullying and bigotry.
"We" is supposed to be all of us. But if "you" (and I mean you personally) just throw up your hands and say "nothing I can do if other people are bullies", then you are now part of the problem as well.
Those "vast areas of the country" don't have to be that way.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 6:51 AM on December 14, 2022 [6 favorites]
Who is this "we"? If you live in vast areas of the country, "we" practically get personal fulfilment from hate, bullying and bigotry.
"We" is supposed to be all of us. But if "you" (and I mean you personally) just throw up your hands and say "nothing I can do if other people are bullies", then you are now part of the problem as well.
Those "vast areas of the country" don't have to be that way.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 6:51 AM on December 14, 2022 [6 favorites]
As a mom with a trans kid who did flee---which was fucking hard and expensive--I would never judge someone else not being able to. I feel guilt for leaving. It was an impossible situation.
My kid is safer, but lonelier. She misses her friends. And this blue state just had a mass shooting at an LGBTQ club not 30 miles away. So safer is relative: the government won't come after her but assholes with guns are everywhere.
We live in a scary time. If you stay, how do you fight your entire state government? If you leave, what if you get attacked anyway?
posted by emjaybee at 7:05 AM on December 14, 2022 [65 favorites]
My kid is safer, but lonelier. She misses her friends. And this blue state just had a mass shooting at an LGBTQ club not 30 miles away. So safer is relative: the government won't come after her but assholes with guns are everywhere.
We live in a scary time. If you stay, how do you fight your entire state government? If you leave, what if you get attacked anyway?
posted by emjaybee at 7:05 AM on December 14, 2022 [65 favorites]
Why would a bully stop bullying me just because I, the person they HAAAAAATE and have no respect for, asked them to stop? REALLY?! Oh, gee, I've berm harassing you for yonks now, but if you ask me pretty please to stop, I will?! Yeah, RIGHT.
You know what has stopped bullies from going after me? 1. Having a boss who had been bullied previously put his foot down and do something about it, 2. Being separated from the bully. I hear that beating up a bully works too, but that probably doesn't work as a short woman.
Unfortunately, getting away from bullies is the easiest and best way to get out of the situation. Ignoring or "live and let live" or "feel sorry for them" only means it continues.
posted by jenfullmoon at 7:19 AM on December 14, 2022 [6 favorites]
You know what has stopped bullies from going after me? 1. Having a boss who had been bullied previously put his foot down and do something about it, 2. Being separated from the bully. I hear that beating up a bully works too, but that probably doesn't work as a short woman.
Unfortunately, getting away from bullies is the easiest and best way to get out of the situation. Ignoring or "live and let live" or "feel sorry for them" only means it continues.
posted by jenfullmoon at 7:19 AM on December 14, 2022 [6 favorites]
The fact that the author was compelled to write this essay because so many of their friends and family were vocally concerned about their child's wellbeing
"Why don't you just move" is about the laziest, cheapest form of "concern" you can voice for someone in a difficult situation, and rarely offered up by someone who did "just move" out of an intolerable situation, even as young adults, when the money may be scarce but the weight of a settled life isn't present. The prudence of having been raised in a blue state is easy to come by. I'm glad I'm not in this lady's shoes and hope that she will be able to steer the best course possible for her family.
posted by praemunire at 7:20 AM on December 14, 2022 [35 favorites]
"Why don't you just move" is about the laziest, cheapest form of "concern" you can voice for someone in a difficult situation, and rarely offered up by someone who did "just move" out of an intolerable situation, even as young adults, when the money may be scarce but the weight of a settled life isn't present. The prudence of having been raised in a blue state is easy to come by. I'm glad I'm not in this lady's shoes and hope that she will be able to steer the best course possible for her family.
posted by praemunire at 7:20 AM on December 14, 2022 [35 favorites]
At the end of the day, history comes for us all. Americans have no living memory of having to flee their homes because of external events, and this entire thing reads as bargaining. Maybe that sounds uncharitable and I don't mean it to; I'm just tired of Americans thinking that they are immune from reality. Yeah, it sucks having to abandon your home and your career in search of physical safety; but that's something that millions of people have to do every single year.I'm bargaining too.
posted by rhymedirective at 8:20 AM on December 14 [3 favorites +] [!]
I'm white and I'm male, but I have a couple of mental health diagnoses and progressive opinions and I don't practice masculinity to everyone's satisfaction and I can't keep my mouth shut. I know I'm next. After they've run down the usual list; bashed all the gays and imprisoned all the black people and put women back in the kitchen and Jews in camps and disabled people in institutions, they'll be coming after me.
I know this, and I still fear change more. It's a failure to imagine leaving everything I've ever known. Maybe it will be tolerable to diminish myself enough to fit in. Maybe that will keep me safe and I won't have to start over somewhere else. It's not that bad for me yet, and maybe it won't get that bad. I vote and I donate, so maybe staying where I am will help turn the tide. Maybe it will get better before it gets so bad I can't ignore it anymore.
I bargain every day.
posted by Horkus at 7:21 AM on December 14, 2022 [11 favorites]
I get her logic that uprooting is hard, especially with a tenured professor job. I get her logic that no state is entirely safe. But I hope that say, the family has relatives in a less prosecutorial state that their trans kid could live with if necessary, because most states aren't attacking trans existence in the way she is already experiencing.
posted by jenfullmoon at 7:25 AM on December 14, 2022
posted by jenfullmoon at 7:25 AM on December 14, 2022
At the end of the day, history comes for us all. Americans have no living memory of having to flee their homes because of external events, and this entire thing reads as bargaining. Maybe that sounds uncharitable and I don't mean it to; I'm just tired of Americans thinking that they are immune from reality. Yeah, it sucks having to abandon your home and your career in search of physical safety; but that's something that millions of people have to do every single year.
As a descendent of Eastern European Jews this is what I was thinking too.
But it sounds like this family actually has a pretty good support system where they are. I wouldn’t move either.
posted by wondermouse at 7:27 AM on December 14, 2022 [4 favorites]
As a descendent of Eastern European Jews this is what I was thinking too.
But it sounds like this family actually has a pretty good support system where they are. I wouldn’t move either.
posted by wondermouse at 7:27 AM on December 14, 2022 [4 favorites]
Americans have no living memory of having to flee their homes because of external events, and this entire thing reads as bargaining.
This might surprise some, but there are people who live in America, and would consider themselves Americans, who have fled their homes because of external events and landed in America. It didn't stop like 100 years ago.
posted by later, paladudes at 7:33 AM on December 14, 2022 [36 favorites]
This might surprise some, but there are people who live in America, and would consider themselves Americans, who have fled their homes because of external events and landed in America. It didn't stop like 100 years ago.
posted by later, paladudes at 7:33 AM on December 14, 2022 [36 favorites]
"Why don't you just move" is about the laziest, cheapest form of "concern" you can voice for someone in a difficult situation
"Why don't you just move" is one of the laziest and dumbest fake suggestions someone can give. "Oh you're not willing to throw away the home you've made, the professional and social network you've built, your friends and family and community? You're not willing to basically restart your life and spend thousands of dollars uprooting yourself? Wow then stop complaining!!!". People on Metafilter have even employed this "advice" when there are discussions about cities becoming unaffordable; and it's doubly rage inducing when discussing a place that is outright dangerous for trans people or other marginalized groups. Absolute child-brained fucking nonsense
posted by windbox at 7:39 AM on December 14, 2022 [21 favorites]
"Why don't you just move" is one of the laziest and dumbest fake suggestions someone can give. "Oh you're not willing to throw away the home you've made, the professional and social network you've built, your friends and family and community? You're not willing to basically restart your life and spend thousands of dollars uprooting yourself? Wow then stop complaining!!!". People on Metafilter have even employed this "advice" when there are discussions about cities becoming unaffordable; and it's doubly rage inducing when discussing a place that is outright dangerous for trans people or other marginalized groups. Absolute child-brained fucking nonsense
posted by windbox at 7:39 AM on December 14, 2022 [21 favorites]
I live in the same city the Amber does. I voted for her when she ran for city council. I'm glad she lives where she does because she is one of the people that works to make this place better. My kid lives in the same city her kid does. My kid is non binary. And they feel semi safe here because of all the people like Amber, and my kids boss and coworkers who stay and work to make this place safer. You all act like going somewhere else is a guarantee of safety. It's not.
posted by shmurley at 7:44 AM on December 14, 2022 [32 favorites]
posted by shmurley at 7:44 AM on December 14, 2022 [32 favorites]
Also, thanks to dancestoblue for posting this!
posted by shmurley at 7:45 AM on December 14, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by shmurley at 7:45 AM on December 14, 2022 [2 favorites]
Why would a bully stop bullying me just because I, the person they HAAAAAATE and have no respect for, asked them to stop?
Dude, I didn't say that the victim was the one to enforce consequences on the bully.
You say that your boss, who was bullied themselves, was the one to step in and say "dude, that's wrong, knock it the fuck off." And that is what I meant. People in authority need to step the fuck up and take this kind of thing seriously, and start making the bullies and bigots in the world face some fucking consequences for their actions.
* Teachers need to step in and punish bullies and bigots because that kind of behavior isn't right.
* Bosses need to step in and punish bullies because that kind of behavior isn't right.
* Police need to step in and punish bullies and bigots because that kind of behavior isn't right.
And:
* The rest of society needs to fucking step in and tell bullies and bigots "that kind of behavior isn't right." The mother of the trans kid who confides in her neighbors that a kid in school is hassling her child shouldn't be hearing "maybe you should just move", she needs to hear "Fuck that, I'mma say something at the next PTA meeting and get Jayden's teacher to put a stop to this." Or whatever.
Expecting the victim of bullying to upend their entire life as a way to escape harrasment should be the last resort option, not the first.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 7:48 AM on December 14, 2022 [21 favorites]
Dude, I didn't say that the victim was the one to enforce consequences on the bully.
You say that your boss, who was bullied themselves, was the one to step in and say "dude, that's wrong, knock it the fuck off." And that is what I meant. People in authority need to step the fuck up and take this kind of thing seriously, and start making the bullies and bigots in the world face some fucking consequences for their actions.
* Teachers need to step in and punish bullies and bigots because that kind of behavior isn't right.
* Bosses need to step in and punish bullies because that kind of behavior isn't right.
* Police need to step in and punish bullies and bigots because that kind of behavior isn't right.
And:
* The rest of society needs to fucking step in and tell bullies and bigots "that kind of behavior isn't right." The mother of the trans kid who confides in her neighbors that a kid in school is hassling her child shouldn't be hearing "maybe you should just move", she needs to hear "Fuck that, I'mma say something at the next PTA meeting and get Jayden's teacher to put a stop to this." Or whatever.
Expecting the victim of bullying to upend their entire life as a way to escape harrasment should be the last resort option, not the first.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 7:48 AM on December 14, 2022 [21 favorites]
Am trans in Texas. The love letter is perfectly fine, I think. And accurate. Yes, there's a ton of stuff in Texas that is shit. Hurricanes, heat, mosquitoes, floods, car culture, traffic, freezes, the fact that you can drive for an hour in Houston without traffic and still be in Houston, and driving in a straight line through empty roads in west Texas it's actually possible to read a book and drive mostly safely.
The natural beauty of the seven!! Different biomes is stunning. There are genuinely great people here. World class museums. Seriously, the Houston science museum and the multiple art museums are top notch. Houston is one of the most diverse cities in the country. There's foods from every corner of the globe.
But let's be damn real about the fact that the problem is as always a deliberate choice from conservatives to be evil. Power and cruelty. That's it. A giant frothing political propaganda machine that incites conservative and insular regular Americans into unleashing their worst impulses. Fascism isn't just overthrowing democracy and torchlight marches. It's allowing cruelty and hate to be considered valid terms of expression. And frankly, the concept of America, love it or get the fuck out is a right wing ideal. It lets them define America as people who fall in line, who don't stand out or rock the boat.
Change is hard, even change for the better. Fascism says that it's not your fault, you don't have to do the difficult and sometimes agonizing work of self improvement, of open minded ness and understanding The Other. The scary scary other. That The Other is your enemy and will Destroy Your Way Of Life and Corrupt Your Children from the Path of Righteous Conformity.
Why shouldn't we write love letters to a state? Why should we have to leave a place, or agonize about that choice? Why should we have to lose sleep and comfort knowing certain people are putting our loved ones at real and terrible risk?
This is fascist, and the fear is the goal. And fascism by nature is scary, the carrot and the stick. The problem is as always fascist. Everything that wants to control people is the problem and talking about leaving is at best a bandaid on the gunshots to society.
posted by Jacen at 7:49 AM on December 14, 2022 [37 favorites]
The natural beauty of the seven!! Different biomes is stunning. There are genuinely great people here. World class museums. Seriously, the Houston science museum and the multiple art museums are top notch. Houston is one of the most diverse cities in the country. There's foods from every corner of the globe.
But let's be damn real about the fact that the problem is as always a deliberate choice from conservatives to be evil. Power and cruelty. That's it. A giant frothing political propaganda machine that incites conservative and insular regular Americans into unleashing their worst impulses. Fascism isn't just overthrowing democracy and torchlight marches. It's allowing cruelty and hate to be considered valid terms of expression. And frankly, the concept of America, love it or get the fuck out is a right wing ideal. It lets them define America as people who fall in line, who don't stand out or rock the boat.
Change is hard, even change for the better. Fascism says that it's not your fault, you don't have to do the difficult and sometimes agonizing work of self improvement, of open minded ness and understanding The Other. The scary scary other. That The Other is your enemy and will Destroy Your Way Of Life and Corrupt Your Children from the Path of Righteous Conformity.
Why shouldn't we write love letters to a state? Why should we have to leave a place, or agonize about that choice? Why should we have to lose sleep and comfort knowing certain people are putting our loved ones at real and terrible risk?
This is fascist, and the fear is the goal. And fascism by nature is scary, the carrot and the stick. The problem is as always fascist. Everything that wants to control people is the problem and talking about leaving is at best a bandaid on the gunshots to society.
posted by Jacen at 7:49 AM on December 14, 2022 [37 favorites]
Americans have no living memory of having to flee their homes because of external events, and this entire thing reads as bargaining.
Lol what? Setting aside the enormous population of refugees who now live here, and definitely remember LAST YEAR, living in Chicago you can absolutely find people living who had to flee their homes IN AMERICA because of lynchings and other racist violence.
(For this statement to be true, the default of "who's an American" would have to be rich and white, which is certainly what the right wing would like us all to agree with. Let's not!)
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 7:50 AM on December 14, 2022 [15 favorites]
Lol what? Setting aside the enormous population of refugees who now live here, and definitely remember LAST YEAR, living in Chicago you can absolutely find people living who had to flee their homes IN AMERICA because of lynchings and other racist violence.
(For this statement to be true, the default of "who's an American" would have to be rich and white, which is certainly what the right wing would like us all to agree with. Let's not!)
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 7:50 AM on December 14, 2022 [15 favorites]
Surprising no one, this story just broke:
Texas attorney general’s office sought state data on transgender Texans [Washington Post]
posted by Fizz at 7:50 AM on December 14, 2022 [19 favorites]
Texas attorney general’s office sought state data on transgender Texans [Washington Post]
“Employees at the Texas Department of Public Safety in June received a sweeping request from Republican Attorney General Ken Paxton’s office: to compile a list of individuals who had changed their gender on their Texas driver’s license and other department records during the past two years. [...] After more than 16,000 such instances were identified, DPS officials determined that a manual search would be needed to determine the reason for the changes, DPS spokesman Travis Considine told The Post in response to questions. “A verbal request was received,” he wrote in an email. “Ultimately, our team advised the AG’s office the data requested neither exists nor could be accurately produced. Thus, no data of any kind was provided.” Asked who in Paxton’s office had requested the records, he replied: “I cannot say.””Fuck Paxton, Abbott and all the other shithead hatemongers.
posted by Fizz at 7:50 AM on December 14, 2022 [19 favorites]
Thanks for sharing this. I try my best not to judge people for where they live. There are liberals in Texas and conservatives in New York, etc.
That said, nowhere is safe but some places are definitely safer. It’s unfair that the place where they chose to live is treating their family with such cruelty but sometimes things are unfair.
It’s imperative to fight the unfair things. It’s also imperative for parents to protect their children and do their best for them. It sounds like she’s done the math and determined it’s better for her family to stay out for now. It’s unconscionable that that’s in question. They deserve better.
posted by kat518 at 7:52 AM on December 14, 2022 [1 favorite]
That said, nowhere is safe but some places are definitely safer. It’s unfair that the place where they chose to live is treating their family with such cruelty but sometimes things are unfair.
It’s imperative to fight the unfair things. It’s also imperative for parents to protect their children and do their best for them. It sounds like she’s done the math and determined it’s better for her family to stay out for now. It’s unconscionable that that’s in question. They deserve better.
posted by kat518 at 7:52 AM on December 14, 2022 [1 favorite]
I really wonder about the people who blithely say "Just move!"
I wonder if they ever had economic struggle in their background. If they ever had to stay in an apartment they couldn't exactly afford after a breakup because they didn't have the cash to break the lease and move. Or if they have ever felt the grounded, rooted nature of having raised kids or invested socially in a community somewhere. If they know what it feels like to have a fragile kid with particular needs that are somehow, fortunately supported by their school, your circle of friends, your family. Or if they ever labored to build a career that would fall apart if they tried to move. If they ever had the kind of job where, even if they had the money to quit (which they don't) they could not be even half sure of finding work in a different city.
Because to think dealing with a situation is a simple as just packing up and leaving... That's missing the thread in a way I am not sure how to explain.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 8:00 AM on December 14, 2022 [21 favorites]
I wonder if they ever had economic struggle in their background. If they ever had to stay in an apartment they couldn't exactly afford after a breakup because they didn't have the cash to break the lease and move. Or if they have ever felt the grounded, rooted nature of having raised kids or invested socially in a community somewhere. If they know what it feels like to have a fragile kid with particular needs that are somehow, fortunately supported by their school, your circle of friends, your family. Or if they ever labored to build a career that would fall apart if they tried to move. If they ever had the kind of job where, even if they had the money to quit (which they don't) they could not be even half sure of finding work in a different city.
Because to think dealing with a situation is a simple as just packing up and leaving... That's missing the thread in a way I am not sure how to explain.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 8:00 AM on December 14, 2022 [21 favorites]
Why would a bully stop bullying me just because I, the person they HAAAAAATE and have no respect for, asked them to stop? REALLY?! Oh, gee, I've berm harassing you for yonks now, but if you ask me pretty please to stop, I will?! Yeah, RIGHT.
Nobody is saying to ask nicely.
The point is that we should stop with trying to identify with abusers as a form of praxis for abuse, and instead start saying "abuse is not acceptable, and continuing with it will have consequences" - and then hold to those consequences. We live in a culture where the abused are expected to break bread and be accepting of their abusers out of questionable "greater good" arguments that don't hold up under scrutiny. That needs to change - consequences for abuse are good, actually, and we need to note that abusers have agency and thus accountability.
posted by NoxAeternum at 8:02 AM on December 14, 2022 [7 favorites]
Nobody is saying to ask nicely.
The point is that we should stop with trying to identify with abusers as a form of praxis for abuse, and instead start saying "abuse is not acceptable, and continuing with it will have consequences" - and then hold to those consequences. We live in a culture where the abused are expected to break bread and be accepting of their abusers out of questionable "greater good" arguments that don't hold up under scrutiny. That needs to change - consequences for abuse are good, actually, and we need to note that abusers have agency and thus accountability.
posted by NoxAeternum at 8:02 AM on December 14, 2022 [7 favorites]
I also live in Texas, and I know several trans people through my kid. (At this point, they've all graduated High School, so "kid" is a relative term.) I'm under the impression that transmen were accepted in HS a lot better than transwomen. (I know at least one woman had to be home schooled because of bullying.) As far as I know, none of them are contemplating leaving.
Also, when the church we occasionally go to had Drag Bingo, and the Young Republicans showed up protesting with guns, the local police came out in force to protect the church.
(Also, Paxton's probably facing criminal charges if he ever steps down at Attorney General.)
posted by Spike Glee at 8:03 AM on December 14, 2022 [5 favorites]
Also, when the church we occasionally go to had Drag Bingo, and the Young Republicans showed up protesting with guns, the local police came out in force to protect the church.
(Also, Paxton's probably facing criminal charges if he ever steps down at Attorney General.)
posted by Spike Glee at 8:03 AM on December 14, 2022 [5 favorites]
I get your point, but read the room.
I honestly think that you should take your own advice. Because there have been a number of posters pointing out that the supposed safe havens aren't nearly as safe as people are making out, and this is in large part because we live in a culture where we're told not to hold abusers accountable and that only victims have agency. And that needs to stop.
(Also, Paxton's probably facing criminal charges if he ever steps down at Attorney General.)
This is part of the problem as well, because what should happen is that Paxton should get frogmarched out of his office in handcuffs as a symbol of nobody being above the law - especially elected officials.
posted by NoxAeternum at 8:11 AM on December 14, 2022 [15 favorites]
I honestly think that you should take your own advice. Because there have been a number of posters pointing out that the supposed safe havens aren't nearly as safe as people are making out, and this is in large part because we live in a culture where we're told not to hold abusers accountable and that only victims have agency. And that needs to stop.
(Also, Paxton's probably facing criminal charges if he ever steps down at Attorney General.)
This is part of the problem as well, because what should happen is that Paxton should get frogmarched out of his office in handcuffs as a symbol of nobody being above the law - especially elected officials.
posted by NoxAeternum at 8:11 AM on December 14, 2022 [15 favorites]
(Also, Paxton's probably facing criminal charges if he ever steps down at Attorney General.)
He's facing felony charges for tax/security fraud already and has been for years, and pretty sure the FBI is still investigating him over the business where all his deputies quit/were fired. But yes, he's a crook for plenty of reasons and if what he's doing to trans Texans isn't illegal, it sure ought to be, as abuse of office.
posted by gentlyepigrams at 8:15 AM on December 14, 2022 [3 favorites]
He's facing felony charges for tax/security fraud already and has been for years, and pretty sure the FBI is still investigating him over the business where all his deputies quit/were fired. But yes, he's a crook for plenty of reasons and if what he's doing to trans Texans isn't illegal, it sure ought to be, as abuse of office.
posted by gentlyepigrams at 8:15 AM on December 14, 2022 [3 favorites]
If the kid didn’t have a support network at home and at school, then we would be having a very different conversation (it is possible, though by no means easy, for tenured professors to switch universities, and lots of academic couples go long-distance for prolonged periods of time even with kids involved; it’s practically a rite of passage). These are the things that are most under a family’s direct control.
That said, the Proud Boys and Patriot Front and other fascist paramilitary groups have been traveling to liberal cities and states to intimidate drag performers and trans people who dare to be in the public eye for months now. These idiots were just recently in a solid blue, “in this family we believe” lawn sign, Unitarian neighborhood in my city. I don’t know why anyone would think that, in this day and age — especially now that this family has the attention of some of the worst actors on the national stage — that the harassment would actually stop if they moved to a different part of the US. These people already have the attention of a deranged mob. What makes anyone think that our current crop of ghoulish anti-trans influencers will just let them be, as long as they leave Texas (something that you would also have to do knowing full well that it would embolden these bigots further and bring them joy)?
Just as there are plenty of Biden voters in Texas, there are also plenty of right-wing TransAnon crazies in California and New York. And while yes of course, some of the most egregious laws on the books will of course be different, if the Proud Boys show up, the most likely outcome is still that the police will pal around with them for a while and then tell you to learn to put up with their harassment. Major coastal metropolises are not paradises free from anti-LGBTQ violence or Fox-pilled law enforcement. It is very different from moving to escape, say, sectarian violence in your home country, where that fault line literally might not exist in your destination.
I certainly don’t blame anyone for relocating to find a supportive environment for themselves or their loved ones. But by the same token, I also believe the author when she says that there is no “safe place” in the US right now.
posted by en forme de poire at 8:22 AM on December 14, 2022 [10 favorites]
That said, the Proud Boys and Patriot Front and other fascist paramilitary groups have been traveling to liberal cities and states to intimidate drag performers and trans people who dare to be in the public eye for months now. These idiots were just recently in a solid blue, “in this family we believe” lawn sign, Unitarian neighborhood in my city. I don’t know why anyone would think that, in this day and age — especially now that this family has the attention of some of the worst actors on the national stage — that the harassment would actually stop if they moved to a different part of the US. These people already have the attention of a deranged mob. What makes anyone think that our current crop of ghoulish anti-trans influencers will just let them be, as long as they leave Texas (something that you would also have to do knowing full well that it would embolden these bigots further and bring them joy)?
Just as there are plenty of Biden voters in Texas, there are also plenty of right-wing TransAnon crazies in California and New York. And while yes of course, some of the most egregious laws on the books will of course be different, if the Proud Boys show up, the most likely outcome is still that the police will pal around with them for a while and then tell you to learn to put up with their harassment. Major coastal metropolises are not paradises free from anti-LGBTQ violence or Fox-pilled law enforcement. It is very different from moving to escape, say, sectarian violence in your home country, where that fault line literally might not exist in your destination.
I certainly don’t blame anyone for relocating to find a supportive environment for themselves or their loved ones. But by the same token, I also believe the author when she says that there is no “safe place” in the US right now.
posted by en forme de poire at 8:22 AM on December 14, 2022 [10 favorites]
I really wonder about the people who blithely say "Just move!"
I can see my family saying this to people in Texas. But that's because they are people who move, and the descendants of people who move. They were not wealthy and privileged: they moved to find work, sometimes for only the promise of work. A few of them have moved merely because they were tired of where they were living and wanted to live somewhere else (with no job or place live lined up wherever they went). I have a couple of relatives who moved to the US basically for the adventure of it when they were in their 20s and are now moving back because...well.. they don't want to raise their kids there, and are now in the process of finding a new job and somewhere to live. I moved away from the town I grew up in because I'm gay and it was a terrible place to be that way, my brother moved away for work, and my parents moved away because my Mom wanted to live closer to a big city.
I'm kind of the weird black sheep in my family because I haven't moved, since moving here, and I frequently have moments of "why am I still here?" Just because all of my friends are here, my job is here, and all my stuff is here doesn't feel like a good enough reason.
I think there is a large and silent subset of society that just moves, for reasons great and small, and they get ignored by the larger cultural discourse of "stay put". If you are a "stay put" kind of person being told to move is pretty big ask, but if you are a "just move" kind of person, it's a reasonable question and you were probably going to do it eventually anyways, so why not now?
posted by selenized at 8:22 AM on December 14, 2022 [13 favorites]
I can see my family saying this to people in Texas. But that's because they are people who move, and the descendants of people who move. They were not wealthy and privileged: they moved to find work, sometimes for only the promise of work. A few of them have moved merely because they were tired of where they were living and wanted to live somewhere else (with no job or place live lined up wherever they went). I have a couple of relatives who moved to the US basically for the adventure of it when they were in their 20s and are now moving back because...well.. they don't want to raise their kids there, and are now in the process of finding a new job and somewhere to live. I moved away from the town I grew up in because I'm gay and it was a terrible place to be that way, my brother moved away for work, and my parents moved away because my Mom wanted to live closer to a big city.
I'm kind of the weird black sheep in my family because I haven't moved, since moving here, and I frequently have moments of "why am I still here?" Just because all of my friends are here, my job is here, and all my stuff is here doesn't feel like a good enough reason.
I think there is a large and silent subset of society that just moves, for reasons great and small, and they get ignored by the larger cultural discourse of "stay put". If you are a "stay put" kind of person being told to move is pretty big ask, but if you are a "just move" kind of person, it's a reasonable question and you were probably going to do it eventually anyways, so why not now?
posted by selenized at 8:22 AM on December 14, 2022 [13 favorites]
I think its a fallacy to believe there is a correct choice for anyone to make. As noted by others there are so many variables about what kind of danger you or your family may face, what kind of job(s) you have, how is easy it is for you to move and get re-established in a new place, etc
Can we believe that everyone is looking at their individual situation and making hard decisions? Can we allow to people to make a decision today and change their minds next week or next year if the situation changes? Can we offer emotional and material support for people at all points on this shifting, murky, and shitty situation?
You don't know the future. You don't know what will happen to any individual person in the future. It is equally wrong to say "it can't happen here" and "it is going to happen here"
And just to be clear, I'm trans in the south. I'm trying to leave, and I support everyone else whether you decide to stay or leave or change your mind 100 times.
posted by Is It Over Yet? at 8:24 AM on December 14, 2022 [26 favorites]
Can we believe that everyone is looking at their individual situation and making hard decisions? Can we allow to people to make a decision today and change their minds next week or next year if the situation changes? Can we offer emotional and material support for people at all points on this shifting, murky, and shitty situation?
You don't know the future. You don't know what will happen to any individual person in the future. It is equally wrong to say "it can't happen here" and "it is going to happen here"
And just to be clear, I'm trans in the south. I'm trying to leave, and I support everyone else whether you decide to stay or leave or change your mind 100 times.
posted by Is It Over Yet? at 8:24 AM on December 14, 2022 [26 favorites]
There is no shame in leaving.
Queer people have been leaving repressive environments where we couldn't be ourselves and seeking out cultures that accept us for, well, ever. We have created enclaves where we can be safe, cities and states where the laws and the people are more accepting, by leaving places where we were in the persecuted minority and banding together to create majorities, or at least big enough numbers to get some representation.
This in turn created political power, which was used to repeal some of the more ridiculously draconian laws against our existence. We banded together in the places we were exiled to, and together we were stronger than we had been alone.
Leaving isn't surrender, it isn't selfish, it's historically been a way to create positive social change.
And it's what whole generations of queer people have had to do forever, so let's not look down at the people who've made that often-agonizing decision.
posted by MrVisible at 8:27 AM on December 14, 2022 [16 favorites]
Queer people have been leaving repressive environments where we couldn't be ourselves and seeking out cultures that accept us for, well, ever. We have created enclaves where we can be safe, cities and states where the laws and the people are more accepting, by leaving places where we were in the persecuted minority and banding together to create majorities, or at least big enough numbers to get some representation.
This in turn created political power, which was used to repeal some of the more ridiculously draconian laws against our existence. We banded together in the places we were exiled to, and together we were stronger than we had been alone.
Leaving isn't surrender, it isn't selfish, it's historically been a way to create positive social change.
And it's what whole generations of queer people have had to do forever, so let's not look down at the people who've made that often-agonizing decision.
posted by MrVisible at 8:27 AM on December 14, 2022 [16 favorites]
what Is It Over Yet? said
there is no single right answer, and the more dire things get the less helpful it is to point at someone who is the farthest from being a threat or enemy to **you** and saying "you're part of the problem/you are making the wrong choice/saying the wrong things" because there's no one best way out of this. Stay or go. There is no solution to the problem, just keep doing what you need to do and try your hardest?
posted by elkevelvet at 8:28 AM on December 14, 2022 [5 favorites]
there is no single right answer, and the more dire things get the less helpful it is to point at someone who is the farthest from being a threat or enemy to **you** and saying "you're part of the problem/you are making the wrong choice/saying the wrong things" because there's no one best way out of this. Stay or go. There is no solution to the problem, just keep doing what you need to do and try your hardest?
posted by elkevelvet at 8:28 AM on December 14, 2022 [5 favorites]
Yes, 100x agree with Is It Over Yet? and elkevelvet.
posted by en forme de poire at 8:31 AM on December 14, 2022
posted by en forme de poire at 8:31 AM on December 14, 2022
My friend in NYC just picked an infuriating textfight with me over the Florida election debacle. "Gainesville and Austin should elope and move to Denmark!" Haha, cute. That's easy to say from the comfort of your Eames chair in Park Slope. But it is also a truckload of harmful braindead bullshit because one, damn right, whole life here!
And two! Are the red states part of the fucking union or are they not? If they are, then the rest of the goddamned entitled-ass, smoking-jacketed, lofty-proclamation-making country needs to work to protect the whole country. You know, like Abe Lincoln and them back in the day?
If you happen to live in a red state and are not in mortal danger, it is easier to make that state better if you stay in it. For instance, "[Amber] ran for city council... she is one of the people that works to make this place better. [queer people] feel semi safe here because of all the people like Amber."
If you DON'T happen to live in a red state, you don't need to text your friends who do with "sucks to be yoooooo" and then "O, so sorry for you, but what could *I* do?" You could help by hurling money at the people who are working to make these states better. Raphael Warnock won his runoff, and it's entirely because I sent him $$ a bunch of times, I'm convinced of it.
posted by Don Pepino at 8:32 AM on December 14, 2022 [17 favorites]
And two! Are the red states part of the fucking union or are they not? If they are, then the rest of the goddamned entitled-ass, smoking-jacketed, lofty-proclamation-making country needs to work to protect the whole country. You know, like Abe Lincoln and them back in the day?
If you happen to live in a red state and are not in mortal danger, it is easier to make that state better if you stay in it. For instance, "[Amber] ran for city council... she is one of the people that works to make this place better. [queer people] feel semi safe here because of all the people like Amber."
If you DON'T happen to live in a red state, you don't need to text your friends who do with "sucks to be yoooooo" and then "O, so sorry for you, but what could *I* do?" You could help by hurling money at the people who are working to make these states better. Raphael Warnock won his runoff, and it's entirely because I sent him $$ a bunch of times, I'm convinced of it.
posted by Don Pepino at 8:32 AM on December 14, 2022 [17 favorites]
Just because all of my friends are here, my job is here, and all my stuff is here doesn't feel like a good enough reason.
It is, though. Or can be. I moved, to get to Chicagoland. I'm from TN/KY. My spouse moved, from Romania. We definitely get and aren't afraid of moving.
But moving as a kid is vastly different than moving as an adult. I know. I moved as a kid... five times, actually. And it suuuuuuuuuuuuucks. It's hard to figure out who you are and who your people are if you have to start over every 3-5 years. Ask a military brat. They have it even worse.
Kids can benefit from a certain amount of groundedness. Neurodivergent kids, special needs kids, queer/trans kids sometimes find support networks that are literally keeping them alive. It's a hell of a thing to propose leaving those behind. Even kids not in those categories. You ever hear someone talk about the special friendship they've had since grade school? I don't have that. I don't even have a high school reunion to go to. I moved from the school I started from and didn't graduate with those kids. The school I moved to most of the way through my junior year... they were mostly strangers to me when we graduated. Those are not incidental things to give up.
There is opportunity in moving, in some areas. But there is cost to moving, for adults, not just financially, but socially, professionally. And for kids, the intangibles lost can be huge. Focusing on the opportunity and ignoring the costs when people explain them feels like privilege. Maybe financial privilege, maybe not. Maybe just privilege of flexibility.
And honestly, as someone from the South originally, it also sounds a whole helluva lot like that reductive thing people do where they pretend that the South is just a shithole full or racist crackers and not, y'know, a land of contrasts.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 8:38 AM on December 14, 2022 [14 favorites]
It is, though. Or can be. I moved, to get to Chicagoland. I'm from TN/KY. My spouse moved, from Romania. We definitely get and aren't afraid of moving.
But moving as a kid is vastly different than moving as an adult. I know. I moved as a kid... five times, actually. And it suuuuuuuuuuuuucks. It's hard to figure out who you are and who your people are if you have to start over every 3-5 years. Ask a military brat. They have it even worse.
Kids can benefit from a certain amount of groundedness. Neurodivergent kids, special needs kids, queer/trans kids sometimes find support networks that are literally keeping them alive. It's a hell of a thing to propose leaving those behind. Even kids not in those categories. You ever hear someone talk about the special friendship they've had since grade school? I don't have that. I don't even have a high school reunion to go to. I moved from the school I started from and didn't graduate with those kids. The school I moved to most of the way through my junior year... they were mostly strangers to me when we graduated. Those are not incidental things to give up.
There is opportunity in moving, in some areas. But there is cost to moving, for adults, not just financially, but socially, professionally. And for kids, the intangibles lost can be huge. Focusing on the opportunity and ignoring the costs when people explain them feels like privilege. Maybe financial privilege, maybe not. Maybe just privilege of flexibility.
And honestly, as someone from the South originally, it also sounds a whole helluva lot like that reductive thing people do where they pretend that the South is just a shithole full or racist crackers and not, y'know, a land of contrasts.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 8:38 AM on December 14, 2022 [14 favorites]
plenty of right-wing TransAnon crazies in California
...flip side of this whole situation: the rightwing nutballs 'round me have mostly been "giving up" and leaving for Idaho. It's always Idaho. Not even Montana or Wyoming. And, tbh, it's not even all of Idaho -- pretty much just Boise. I've been a bit curious as to how they've found the housing/CoL situation in Boise, but not enough to actually speak to them once they've left.
posted by aramaic at 8:44 AM on December 14, 2022 [1 favorite]
...flip side of this whole situation: the rightwing nutballs 'round me have mostly been "giving up" and leaving for Idaho. It's always Idaho. Not even Montana or Wyoming. And, tbh, it's not even all of Idaho -- pretty much just Boise. I've been a bit curious as to how they've found the housing/CoL situation in Boise, but not enough to actually speak to them once they've left.
posted by aramaic at 8:44 AM on December 14, 2022 [1 favorite]
Republicans are all about fewer laws & regulations, individual freedom, and letting people decide for themselves what's best for their families.
Except when they're not.
posted by ZenMasterThis at 8:52 AM on December 14, 2022 [3 favorites]
Except when they're not.
posted by ZenMasterThis at 8:52 AM on December 14, 2022 [3 favorites]
But moving as a kid is vastly different than moving as an adult. I know. I moved as a kid... five times, actually. And it suuuuuuuuuuuuucks. It's hard to figure out who you are and who your people are if you have to start over every 3-5 years. Ask a military brat. They have it even worse.
This can vary -- I moved a lot (like, way more than five times) as a kid and I loved it, being able to experience new places and meet new people. Bur probably for most kids it is more like what you describe.
I do think that people who casually say "just move" are often downplaying how hard it is to completely uproot as an established adult, and that's one of the frustrating things about that advice. How often has that person giving the free advice actually done a major move from scratch recently? We fairly recently moved across the country and we did it on easy mode -- remote jobs so no need to start by trying to find new work from far away, family and connections in the place we were moving, housing got sorted out easily, we had sufficient savings to cover all of the expenses (which were a lot, probably about double what I had first estimated), and no kid(s) to uproot. And even on easy mode, it was a phenomenal pain in the neck, expensive, and stressful.
It doesn't mean that it isn't the right advice sometimes to suggest moving, but I really wish people weren't so casual with throwing it around.
posted by Dip Flash at 8:52 AM on December 14, 2022 [5 favorites]
This can vary -- I moved a lot (like, way more than five times) as a kid and I loved it, being able to experience new places and meet new people. Bur probably for most kids it is more like what you describe.
I do think that people who casually say "just move" are often downplaying how hard it is to completely uproot as an established adult, and that's one of the frustrating things about that advice. How often has that person giving the free advice actually done a major move from scratch recently? We fairly recently moved across the country and we did it on easy mode -- remote jobs so no need to start by trying to find new work from far away, family and connections in the place we were moving, housing got sorted out easily, we had sufficient savings to cover all of the expenses (which were a lot, probably about double what I had first estimated), and no kid(s) to uproot. And even on easy mode, it was a phenomenal pain in the neck, expensive, and stressful.
It doesn't mean that it isn't the right advice sometimes to suggest moving, but I really wish people weren't so casual with throwing it around.
posted by Dip Flash at 8:52 AM on December 14, 2022 [5 favorites]
There is no shame in leaving.
You're correct, there is no shame in leaving - when it is your own choice to do so.
I'm not pushing back against the people who do choose to leave. I'm pushing back against the people who suggest "just leave" as the only solution to this problem, because that is not a choice everyone feels comfortable making or is even able to make. I mean, hell, I worked for two years with a company that supported refugees fleeing literal warzones, and the bulk of our work consisted of what happened after they did leave, and involved helping them totally rebuild a life from the ground up - because "just leaving" is one fuck of a major transition that not everyone is equipped to make smoothly.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 8:55 AM on December 14, 2022 [10 favorites]
You're correct, there is no shame in leaving - when it is your own choice to do so.
I'm not pushing back against the people who do choose to leave. I'm pushing back against the people who suggest "just leave" as the only solution to this problem, because that is not a choice everyone feels comfortable making or is even able to make. I mean, hell, I worked for two years with a company that supported refugees fleeing literal warzones, and the bulk of our work consisted of what happened after they did leave, and involved helping them totally rebuild a life from the ground up - because "just leaving" is one fuck of a major transition that not everyone is equipped to make smoothly.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 8:55 AM on December 14, 2022 [10 favorites]
Just move is especially hard when, unless you have massive amounts of cash on hand buying a house is extremely expensive and renting is equally unaffordable. Especially in "liberal" areas where CoL elements are their own form of exclusionary zoning.
posted by Ferreous at 8:56 AM on December 14, 2022 [8 favorites]
posted by Ferreous at 8:56 AM on December 14, 2022 [8 favorites]
The worst thing, I think, would be to leave behind your job and your friends and your family and your support system thinking you're going someplace better... and then it isn't better. Iowa has slid rightward significantly in the last ~10 years. I look around at Minnesota and Wisconsin and Illinois and, if they're more progressive now, is that still where they're going to be in 5 or 10 years? It takes very little for gerrymandering to turn a pretty progressive state into one that's dominated by Republicans in the state legislature.
And state government is a big deal, but so is the local political climate of your city. So is the microclimate of your school, your workplace, your neighborhood. That stuff can be very hard to predict in advance from the outside, and if what you've got in terms of the local microclimate is pretty good, it's a hard gamble to take the devil you don't know.
I'm thinking a lot about this kind of stuff now because I'm interviewing for a couple of jobs that would get me out of Iowa. And I'm not applying for jobs in Florida or Texas or Missouri because those are states where I do not want to be a librarian in the current political climate, but also... I am under no illusion that I am safe from that political climate no matter where I move to.
(And if I get that St. Paul job, my rent is going to be somewhere around 2.5x what it is now, without a commensurate in salary, so... yeah, money is also a huge factor.)
posted by Jeanne at 9:03 AM on December 14, 2022 [13 favorites]
And state government is a big deal, but so is the local political climate of your city. So is the microclimate of your school, your workplace, your neighborhood. That stuff can be very hard to predict in advance from the outside, and if what you've got in terms of the local microclimate is pretty good, it's a hard gamble to take the devil you don't know.
I'm thinking a lot about this kind of stuff now because I'm interviewing for a couple of jobs that would get me out of Iowa. And I'm not applying for jobs in Florida or Texas or Missouri because those are states where I do not want to be a librarian in the current political climate, but also... I am under no illusion that I am safe from that political climate no matter where I move to.
(And if I get that St. Paul job, my rent is going to be somewhere around 2.5x what it is now, without a commensurate in salary, so... yeah, money is also a huge factor.)
posted by Jeanne at 9:03 AM on December 14, 2022 [13 favorites]
Instead of having a whole debate about moving versus staying, why don't we take the writer at her word and accept that they are staying for their own reasons. Maybe we can focus the discussion how to make things better in Texas (links have been shared, removing Ken Paxton maybe can be nudged along, etc).
posted by kokaku at 9:05 AM on December 14, 2022 [8 favorites]
posted by kokaku at 9:05 AM on December 14, 2022 [8 favorites]
Living in Texas in general gets that response. I shouldn't have to leave, they should just make Texas good, instead. Stayin' here till they do. Not much hope on that front most days, but on the bright side, any day of the week there's a small chance Abbott gets righteously crushed by another tree.
posted by GoblinHoney at 9:07 AM on December 14, 2022 [4 favorites]
posted by GoblinHoney at 9:07 AM on December 14, 2022 [4 favorites]
Dude, I didn't say that the victim was the one to enforce consequences on the bully.
You say that your boss, who was bullied themselves, was the one to step in and say "dude, that's wrong, knock it the fuck off." And that is what I meant. People in authority need to step the fuck up and take this kind of thing seriously, and start making the bullies and bigots in the world face some fucking consequences for their actions.
Expecting the victim of bullying to upend their entire life as a way to escape harrasment should be the last resort option, not the first.
Oh, I agree. I think it's truly bizarre that people in authority usually WILL NOT DO FUCKALL about it and frankly, seem to be on the bullies' side. I couldn't get teachers to do anything for me in school. I couldn't get THE PRINCIPAL to do anything for me in school, she said she couldn't force a retiring teacher to do his job and discipline the kids. I applied for a job where it turned out bullying was going on--I didn't get the job but I met someone who did two interview cycles later, and she told me the boss lady had no idea what to do about her underling bullying others. I know someone else who was being bullied for 8 years, the woman was reported multiple times, nothing happened except the bully getting promoted, repeatedly. She had to leave her job, finally.
Our culture thinks that bullying is fine and normal, we support bullies, and targets of bullies, well, it's THEIR fault for being a weirdo and bringing out the urge to bully. Leaving isn't the first or last option, it's pretty much the ONLY option usually.
Nobody is saying to ask nicely.
Yeah, good point, I apologize for being wrong again. I just went into a rage fugue at the idea of asking someone to stop being awful to me, like they'd care about my opinion on the matter.
But back to the original topic, I just have no idea what to do/say for someone in Texas who's having their kid threatened/is being threatened themselves as a parent, and leaving's not an option. I don't know how you fight an entire system that's now dedicated to hunting you and prosecuting you for existing. "Leave," no matter how hard it is, may still just be easier than fighting all of the Texas government. I don't know how to make things better in Texas and I don't live there, so what do I know on the topic anyway.
posted by jenfullmoon at 9:07 AM on December 14, 2022 [3 favorites]
You say that your boss, who was bullied themselves, was the one to step in and say "dude, that's wrong, knock it the fuck off." And that is what I meant. People in authority need to step the fuck up and take this kind of thing seriously, and start making the bullies and bigots in the world face some fucking consequences for their actions.
Expecting the victim of bullying to upend their entire life as a way to escape harrasment should be the last resort option, not the first.
Oh, I agree. I think it's truly bizarre that people in authority usually WILL NOT DO FUCKALL about it and frankly, seem to be on the bullies' side. I couldn't get teachers to do anything for me in school. I couldn't get THE PRINCIPAL to do anything for me in school, she said she couldn't force a retiring teacher to do his job and discipline the kids. I applied for a job where it turned out bullying was going on--I didn't get the job but I met someone who did two interview cycles later, and she told me the boss lady had no idea what to do about her underling bullying others. I know someone else who was being bullied for 8 years, the woman was reported multiple times, nothing happened except the bully getting promoted, repeatedly. She had to leave her job, finally.
Our culture thinks that bullying is fine and normal, we support bullies, and targets of bullies, well, it's THEIR fault for being a weirdo and bringing out the urge to bully. Leaving isn't the first or last option, it's pretty much the ONLY option usually.
Nobody is saying to ask nicely.
Yeah, good point, I apologize for being wrong again. I just went into a rage fugue at the idea of asking someone to stop being awful to me, like they'd care about my opinion on the matter.
But back to the original topic, I just have no idea what to do/say for someone in Texas who's having their kid threatened/is being threatened themselves as a parent, and leaving's not an option. I don't know how you fight an entire system that's now dedicated to hunting you and prosecuting you for existing. "Leave," no matter how hard it is, may still just be easier than fighting all of the Texas government. I don't know how to make things better in Texas and I don't live there, so what do I know on the topic anyway.
posted by jenfullmoon at 9:07 AM on December 14, 2022 [3 favorites]
But back to the original topic, I just have no idea what to do/say for someone in Texas who's having their kid threatened/is being threatened themselves as a parent, and leaving's not an option.
I get the sense that the author was more talking about something she wished people wouldn't say anyway.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 9:10 AM on December 14, 2022 [2 favorites]
I get the sense that the author was more talking about something she wished people wouldn't say anyway.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 9:10 AM on December 14, 2022 [2 favorites]
Blue-city/red-state dweller here. “Just move” is also what conservatives say to us when we do something radical, like mentioning the Establishment Clause, or questioning the wisdom of leaving your doors unlocked at night but keeping a loaded gun on your bedside table.
The local variant here is “if you don’t like it, you can leave.” (Never mind the shitfit these fascist theocrats would throw if we said similar when they visit our city and bitch about the diversity.)
Believe me, more of us would uproot if we had it in our power. Others of us would also bloom where we’re planted and make things better, if we had that in our power.
If you’re out there just trying to get by on red-state wages, wondering what tomorrow will bring, you’re not alone. I see you. Do whatever you gotta do to survive.
posted by armeowda at 9:20 AM on December 14, 2022 [9 favorites]
The local variant here is “if you don’t like it, you can leave.” (Never mind the shitfit these fascist theocrats would throw if we said similar when they visit our city and bitch about the diversity.)
Believe me, more of us would uproot if we had it in our power. Others of us would also bloom where we’re planted and make things better, if we had that in our power.
If you’re out there just trying to get by on red-state wages, wondering what tomorrow will bring, you’re not alone. I see you. Do whatever you gotta do to survive.
posted by armeowda at 9:20 AM on December 14, 2022 [9 favorites]
I have no argument that any one person should "just leave." But I do know where I live, in Illinois, no one will be investigating you for child abuse simply because your kid is trans. Which seems better? I understand all the complexities, but I couldn't handle that amount of scrutiny for existing.
posted by tiny frying pan at 9:21 AM on December 14, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by tiny frying pan at 9:21 AM on December 14, 2022 [3 favorites]
Given the events of the last half decade, I think every American should be developing an escape plan from the country, not just Texas or whatever. Obviously that's not possible for everyone, but I think it's a real possibility that many or most people in this thread won't want to live anywhere in the USA anymore at some point in the next decade. I don't think it's more than 50% likely or anything but it's some kind of relevant probability that is worth taking seriously. Is there anything that you can do now to make leaving possible or easier?
posted by Kwine at 9:22 AM on December 14, 2022 [5 favorites]
posted by Kwine at 9:22 AM on December 14, 2022 [5 favorites]
My biggest concern about Texas is that they appear to be gunning to be the first state to remove trans kids from their parents (or remove kids from trans parents), incarcerate the parents, and rehome the kids in the extensive and lucrative evangelical predation pipeline that is already well-established in the state.
So for my trans friends and parents of trans kids in Texas, it has never been "why don't you just move" but it has always been "if you need to get out, tell me". Because it's nice if anyone currently has the support of others, but you can't count on any of those others showing up to successfully barricade your door when the police show up. They aren't going to be leaving without your kid, and if there needs to be a body count they can arrange that and they will get away with it. I'm guessing there are some Texas churches (there's a large UU presence in the big cities, for example) willing to attempt to provide asylum, but does anyone look forward to that for their kid?
I cannot fault anyone who feels that leaving is the right thing. I can't insist anyone is obligated to stay and fight, especially stay and force their kid into a fight they may not be able to fully consent to because they don't understand the stakes. I can't say "you gotta stay and let them take your kid and go to jail and hope to get a Supreme Court case out of it". This isn't just philosophical.
I can also accept that some people are making informed decisions to stay, risk well-assessed, willing to take a stand. The fight needs those people. I can even appreciate people who are making the case that this is our home and we're not leaving, because that's a very compelling story to undecided community members who may be persuaded to deviate from their single-issue vote. So we need the Ambers, but we can't force any individual to be an Amber. And frankly, I think Amber needs to support the people who aren't making the same choice she's made. And I do think you can leave Texas because you believe you should and continue to participate in many forms of activism from that position - you don't have to stop fighting just because you leave.
It is true that no state is free of the casual fascism - California has just as big a problem of educational and medical staff in particular making up claims of abuse toward nonwhite parents, or reporting them as undocumented whether they are or not. But California is definitely not going to be the first state to add Suspicion of Transness to the body of accusations that will initiate removal from the home. Yes, every state has individual assholes, and some of them are in state government, but there are absolutely states that will soon be safer than Texas and Florida on a basic "fascist laws" comparison if you are trans or have a trans kid (or if any of you can be "suspected" of being trans).
posted by Lyn Never at 9:23 AM on December 14, 2022 [12 favorites]
So for my trans friends and parents of trans kids in Texas, it has never been "why don't you just move" but it has always been "if you need to get out, tell me". Because it's nice if anyone currently has the support of others, but you can't count on any of those others showing up to successfully barricade your door when the police show up. They aren't going to be leaving without your kid, and if there needs to be a body count they can arrange that and they will get away with it. I'm guessing there are some Texas churches (there's a large UU presence in the big cities, for example) willing to attempt to provide asylum, but does anyone look forward to that for their kid?
I cannot fault anyone who feels that leaving is the right thing. I can't insist anyone is obligated to stay and fight, especially stay and force their kid into a fight they may not be able to fully consent to because they don't understand the stakes. I can't say "you gotta stay and let them take your kid and go to jail and hope to get a Supreme Court case out of it". This isn't just philosophical.
I can also accept that some people are making informed decisions to stay, risk well-assessed, willing to take a stand. The fight needs those people. I can even appreciate people who are making the case that this is our home and we're not leaving, because that's a very compelling story to undecided community members who may be persuaded to deviate from their single-issue vote. So we need the Ambers, but we can't force any individual to be an Amber. And frankly, I think Amber needs to support the people who aren't making the same choice she's made. And I do think you can leave Texas because you believe you should and continue to participate in many forms of activism from that position - you don't have to stop fighting just because you leave.
It is true that no state is free of the casual fascism - California has just as big a problem of educational and medical staff in particular making up claims of abuse toward nonwhite parents, or reporting them as undocumented whether they are or not. But California is definitely not going to be the first state to add Suspicion of Transness to the body of accusations that will initiate removal from the home. Yes, every state has individual assholes, and some of them are in state government, but there are absolutely states that will soon be safer than Texas and Florida on a basic "fascist laws" comparison if you are trans or have a trans kid (or if any of you can be "suspected" of being trans).
posted by Lyn Never at 9:23 AM on December 14, 2022 [12 favorites]
I thought people were fleeing because they could have their children removed from the home for accommodating a transition in TX. The choice is often between risking self harm on the child’s part or having the home broken up, which subjects the child to additional high risk situations in the hands of a state that just got cited for being a trafficking pipeline.
posted by Selena777 at 9:25 AM on December 14, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by Selena777 at 9:25 AM on December 14, 2022 [2 favorites]
You know, I'm going back to visit friends in Austin and attend a deeply beloved professional meeting in a few weeks. I moved away from Texas... golly, eighteen months ago, more or less? And there are absolutely things I love about my new place in Minnesota. The weather, oddly, is easier on me, and having a state government that I can trust to not be actively trying to kill me and destroy my place of employment is great. My professional environment is incalculably better, although that's down to individual people rather than the state.
But there's a lot of things I miss deeply. I built a community in Texas--my queer and heavily trans and nonbinary community, no less--and I miss it. I miss my people--and they are anchored to the state by their own families and connections; some of them have been living in Texas longer than it has been a part of America. I miss Queerbomb. I miss tamales from door to door tamale vendors. I miss the food.
One of the things about queer migration in response to fashy threat that is different from people who are being threatened as members of ethnic groups, is that we are pushed or pulled by threats in ways that are not the same for all members of our families--both those families of origin that we keep (and that keep us) and our chosen families. Some of my friends who will not consider leaving are committing themselves to family members who are not under attack--or so that they can be allies to minor children with parents who are, shall I say, shitty on this dimension. Our networks don't move en masse in the same way: our sisters, parents, brothers, cousins, friends don't always experience the same urgency of pressure to pick up and go that we do, so we are more likely to face down the specter of picking up, leaving our families and networks behind, and trying to navigate a new place on our own. COVID has intensified this.
What do you do if you're preparing to look after elderly parents who love you and your clearly-not-gender-conforming nephew just as you are, but who don't have the money to move and aren't personally experiencing pressure? What do you do if you're looking out for your ten-years-younger sister, also queer and without much support anywhere at all? What do you do if you run a community center? (I passed it on, but someone's got to lead it, right?) What do you do, what do you do?
Leaving was the right choice for me, and I am glad I left. But I don't think my friends who are not leaving are wrong to do that, either.
posted by sciatrix at 9:31 AM on December 14, 2022 [27 favorites]
But there's a lot of things I miss deeply. I built a community in Texas--my queer and heavily trans and nonbinary community, no less--and I miss it. I miss my people--and they are anchored to the state by their own families and connections; some of them have been living in Texas longer than it has been a part of America. I miss Queerbomb. I miss tamales from door to door tamale vendors. I miss the food.
One of the things about queer migration in response to fashy threat that is different from people who are being threatened as members of ethnic groups, is that we are pushed or pulled by threats in ways that are not the same for all members of our families--both those families of origin that we keep (and that keep us) and our chosen families. Some of my friends who will not consider leaving are committing themselves to family members who are not under attack--or so that they can be allies to minor children with parents who are, shall I say, shitty on this dimension. Our networks don't move en masse in the same way: our sisters, parents, brothers, cousins, friends don't always experience the same urgency of pressure to pick up and go that we do, so we are more likely to face down the specter of picking up, leaving our families and networks behind, and trying to navigate a new place on our own. COVID has intensified this.
What do you do if you're preparing to look after elderly parents who love you and your clearly-not-gender-conforming nephew just as you are, but who don't have the money to move and aren't personally experiencing pressure? What do you do if you're looking out for your ten-years-younger sister, also queer and without much support anywhere at all? What do you do if you run a community center? (I passed it on, but someone's got to lead it, right?) What do you do, what do you do?
Leaving was the right choice for me, and I am glad I left. But I don't think my friends who are not leaving are wrong to do that, either.
posted by sciatrix at 9:31 AM on December 14, 2022 [27 favorites]
Mod note: A couple comments derailing the conversation deleted. Also, even if with was written in quotes, using "normal" like this might be offensive to trans folk, left that comment for context.
posted by loup (staff) at 9:40 AM on December 14, 2022 [7 favorites]
posted by loup (staff) at 9:40 AM on December 14, 2022 [7 favorites]
My biggest concern about Texas is that they appear to be gunning to be the first state to remove trans kids from their parents
It's worth noting that the state appears to have begun that process for this family, as they've received intrusive visits from the state's child welfare workers. Texas very clearly wants to split this family apart because of their son's gender identity.
I get that "just move" is glib and dismissive, but I'm extremely concerned that this woman is not taking the threats to her child seriously.
I'll also reiterate that "Not all Texans" is not a useful thing to be saying here, considering the extreme and dangerous radicalization of the other 55% of Texans, who also happen to control all levels of the state government. Nobody is saying that Texans are a monolith.
Queer people exist everywhere, and we absolutely should talk about that more – but we're also not talking about queer adults who can choose where they live.
Similarly, we should support the hell out of the 40% of folks in red states who aren't monsters, and are fighting to make things better where they are. That's also not what this is about.
This is about a cis, straight woman who just wrote a lot of words about how she thinks that things in Texas are just fine for her trans kid, and how her career and church would probably keep her in Texas even if things were not fine for her kid.
I don't think she realizes just how quickly things are going to move when Greg Abbott decides that her son needs to be sent to a camp to be fixed.
posted by schmod at 9:49 AM on December 14, 2022 [7 favorites]
It's worth noting that the state appears to have begun that process for this family, as they've received intrusive visits from the state's child welfare workers. Texas very clearly wants to split this family apart because of their son's gender identity.
I get that "just move" is glib and dismissive, but I'm extremely concerned that this woman is not taking the threats to her child seriously.
I'll also reiterate that "Not all Texans" is not a useful thing to be saying here, considering the extreme and dangerous radicalization of the other 55% of Texans, who also happen to control all levels of the state government. Nobody is saying that Texans are a monolith.
Queer people exist everywhere, and we absolutely should talk about that more – but we're also not talking about queer adults who can choose where they live.
Similarly, we should support the hell out of the 40% of folks in red states who aren't monsters, and are fighting to make things better where they are. That's also not what this is about.
This is about a cis, straight woman who just wrote a lot of words about how she thinks that things in Texas are just fine for her trans kid, and how her career and church would probably keep her in Texas even if things were not fine for her kid.
I don't think she realizes just how quickly things are going to move when Greg Abbott decides that her son needs to be sent to a camp to be fixed.
posted by schmod at 9:49 AM on December 14, 2022 [7 favorites]
If you happen to live in a red state and are not in mortal danger, it is easier to make that state better if you stay in it.
I'm not saying I'll never go (I agree about an escape hatch --if politics doesn't come for you, climate change may very well) but as a single, childless cis-presenting white lady who will be surgically past reproductive ability in, oh, about a month, living in a dark blue part of a mostly red state, at least for the immediately foreseeable future, it does seem like the best use of my time is to be a royal pain in the ass to the people actively trying to make this place unsafe for people I care about, whether I know them or not.
posted by thivaia at 9:51 AM on December 14, 2022 [10 favorites]
I'm not saying I'll never go (I agree about an escape hatch --if politics doesn't come for you, climate change may very well) but as a single, childless cis-presenting white lady who will be surgically past reproductive ability in, oh, about a month, living in a dark blue part of a mostly red state, at least for the immediately foreseeable future, it does seem like the best use of my time is to be a royal pain in the ass to the people actively trying to make this place unsafe for people I care about, whether I know them or not.
posted by thivaia at 9:51 AM on December 14, 2022 [10 favorites]
Btw, I get your point, but read the room has got to be the MetaFilter: tagline of the day.
posted by y2karl at 9:53 AM on December 14, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by y2karl at 9:53 AM on December 14, 2022 [2 favorites]
From my perspective it looks like a choice between months of (if you are allowed by whatever jackboots come) fighting the actions of the state in the state or months/years of re-acclimatizing in a new state. A new state that, while not safe from stochastic terrorists, at least isn't using it's entire power structure to hurt you.
There's already camps for asylum seekers. I don't think it's a question of "if", it's a question of when.
posted by Slackermagee at 10:04 AM on December 14, 2022 [1 favorite]
There's already camps for asylum seekers. I don't think it's a question of "if", it's a question of when.
posted by Slackermagee at 10:04 AM on December 14, 2022 [1 favorite]
My biggest concern about Texas is that they appear to be gunning to be the first state to remove trans kids from their parents
This is what I meant when I said nowhere is safe but some places are definitely safer. When the author compared the state government laying the groundwork to take her child away with people making threats against Boston Children’s, I thought those things are not comparable IMHO.
I appreciate that the author weighed the pros and cons of staying and leaving and decided staying makes sense for now. And I recognize that anything is possible and the theocracy could turn San Francisco into Gilead. But I don’t think it’s rational to act as if the threats her family face in Texas are identical or comparable to those they would face elsewhere.
posted by kat518 at 10:06 AM on December 14, 2022 [7 favorites]
This is what I meant when I said nowhere is safe but some places are definitely safer. When the author compared the state government laying the groundwork to take her child away with people making threats against Boston Children’s, I thought those things are not comparable IMHO.
I appreciate that the author weighed the pros and cons of staying and leaving and decided staying makes sense for now. And I recognize that anything is possible and the theocracy could turn San Francisco into Gilead. But I don’t think it’s rational to act as if the threats her family face in Texas are identical or comparable to those they would face elsewhere.
posted by kat518 at 10:06 AM on December 14, 2022 [7 favorites]
This is a tough one. I sympathize with anyone who is stuck in a situation/location like this and can't or does not want to leave, and in a perfect world the onus would be on the shitty people to change their attitudes and behaviour...but my wife grew up in an extraordinarily racist, *mean* city, which it remains to this day, and at a very young age she realized that she had to the fuck out of there as soon as she could (as did all of her friends her own age, without exception). There are, of course, many non-racist, non-mean people living there, but the overall culture still seems racist, and mean, and most of the people of her parents' generation we know who still live there seem poisoned by it to varying degrees.
posted by The Card Cheat at 10:20 AM on December 14, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by The Card Cheat at 10:20 AM on December 14, 2022 [1 favorite]
My friends have been talking about when we'd need to leave Texas, and where to go, for years now. Few of us want to uproot, we all have good reasons not to, but it's an ongoing conversation.
The conversations I have with out-of-state friends are less helpful, because they've been completely appalled for ages and don't see why anyone would stay.
I get why the author would be done with the second kind of conversation, but I hope she and her family are having the first one.
posted by mersen at 10:38 AM on December 14, 2022 [3 favorites]
The conversations I have with out-of-state friends are less helpful, because they've been completely appalled for ages and don't see why anyone would stay.
I get why the author would be done with the second kind of conversation, but I hope she and her family are having the first one.
posted by mersen at 10:38 AM on December 14, 2022 [3 favorites]
I live in Texas. I know one couple that is preparing to leave the state on account of their trans kid. Sticking around and fighting seems noble but unrealistic.
For completely different reasons, I am mentally prepared to leave the USA. It's not my first choice, but when things get bad, I am not sticking around. I have researched (and continue to research) other places to live, figured out what I need to do to bring my cats with me, etc. I viewed the 2022 midterms as a bellwether that would tell me whether I need to get out now. My wife and I had some hard discussions about that. I feel like we've dodged that bullet, but if the Dobbs decision teaches me anything, it is that the forces of darkness are persistent and will come for me eventually.
posted by adamrice at 10:40 AM on December 14, 2022 [4 favorites]
For completely different reasons, I am mentally prepared to leave the USA. It's not my first choice, but when things get bad, I am not sticking around. I have researched (and continue to research) other places to live, figured out what I need to do to bring my cats with me, etc. I viewed the 2022 midterms as a bellwether that would tell me whether I need to get out now. My wife and I had some hard discussions about that. I feel like we've dodged that bullet, but if the Dobbs decision teaches me anything, it is that the forces of darkness are persistent and will come for me eventually.
posted by adamrice at 10:40 AM on December 14, 2022 [4 favorites]
I was ready to be like "lady are you crazy" until I saw that the spouse was a tenured professor and the alternative was adjuncting. Yeah, I guess I can see why they don't want to be homeless in California or New York, that's not safe either... kid's going to end up in the system either way...
posted by kingdead at 10:51 AM on December 14, 2022 [6 favorites]
posted by kingdead at 10:51 AM on December 14, 2022 [6 favorites]
Family will always come first. We already have our escape route planned out if we have to leave the state to stay together in the short term.
This is a line from the article that I think has some bearing on the discussion here.
posted by en forme de poire at 11:18 AM on December 14, 2022 [5 favorites]
This is a line from the article that I think has some bearing on the discussion here.
posted by en forme de poire at 11:18 AM on December 14, 2022 [5 favorites]
In this particular case, moving means giving up a tenured job (job security, health insurance) for an adjunct job (the university can chose not to renew your contract for no reason every 6 months; low pay; often no health insurance.)
There's a very real threat that if this family moved, they wouldn't be able to afford rent/health insurance.
posted by chariot pulled by cassowaries at 11:21 AM on December 14, 2022 [13 favorites]
There's a very real threat that if this family moved, they wouldn't be able to afford rent/health insurance.
posted by chariot pulled by cassowaries at 11:21 AM on December 14, 2022 [13 favorites]
I also want to point out that Prop 8 passed in California less than 15 years ago during one of the country’s largest blue waves. I’m not denying that the situation in Texas is uniquely bad, just saying that bad, discriminatory laws have also come to blue states in recent memory.
posted by en forme de poire at 11:28 AM on December 14, 2022 [4 favorites]
posted by en forme de poire at 11:28 AM on December 14, 2022 [4 favorites]
One of my kid's trans friends stayed with us for ~6 months when his parents moved out of state to Florida. One of the reasons was friction with his folks, but the big reason was that his doctors are here. From what I've heard, finding a doctor who can help with transitioning's hard, so if you move, that's another thing that's going to have to start over.
posted by Spike Glee at 11:30 AM on December 14, 2022 [4 favorites]
posted by Spike Glee at 11:30 AM on December 14, 2022 [4 favorites]
To emphasise how bad giving up a tenured job for an adjunct job is: adjunct job conditions are SO BAD (very low pay, long hours, lots of unpaid overtime) that large numbers of university adjuncts are currently on strike in the US and the UK.
posted by chariot pulled by cassowaries at 11:36 AM on December 14, 2022 [5 favorites]
posted by chariot pulled by cassowaries at 11:36 AM on December 14, 2022 [5 favorites]
Given the absolute shit state of US healthcare, I can imagine that giving up medical insurance coverage is not a thing to take lightly, and especially if you have managed to find a health care team that is on your child's side.
posted by Kitteh at 11:38 AM on December 14, 2022 [10 favorites]
posted by Kitteh at 11:38 AM on December 14, 2022 [10 favorites]
Yeah, once she mentioned "tenured professor," that's an absolute "I can't leave." Her job may also be hard to leave (she's running her own company? unclear). But at the very least, I hope there's a way to get the kid out of the state even if Daddy's stuck there until he retires. I wonder what their escape plan entails?
posted by jenfullmoon at 12:00 PM on December 14, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by jenfullmoon at 12:00 PM on December 14, 2022 [1 favorite]
By the way, felt an ugly deja vu when I saw that fuckhead CO Republicans tried to introduce the same kind of antitrans legislation here as in TX. Wherever you go, you still have to fight.
posted by emjaybee at 12:15 PM on December 14, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by emjaybee at 12:15 PM on December 14, 2022 [2 favorites]
Presumably there is also the calculus about how long your trans kid is going to be a kid, and how quickly you think that things could get catastrophically bad. Keeping a 17 year old safe for a year, and then maybe sending them out of state for college, is very different from keeping a 7 year old safe for 10 years.
posted by plonkee at 12:23 PM on December 14, 2022 [9 favorites]
posted by plonkee at 12:23 PM on December 14, 2022 [9 favorites]
"It is unfair and un-American to ask my family to uproot, give up our livelihoods, our home, and everything we've built; expect my children to leave their friends, activities, and school; and move to another part of the US..."
I should first say I've learned so much from the various opinions you all have shared.
The quote above did give me a bitter chuckle though. Partially because I'm a child of immigrants and my kin have had to flee all kinds of things, perhaps in a bit of an echo of what rhymedirective felt. I'm familiar with the stories of every flavor of Asian immigrants to this country who split their family in all kinds of heartbreakingly painful ways to ensure better lives for their children. So maybe that's not what she meant by American (although if that's true...oof.) But then maybe it's just because I find it a weird way to frame the unfairness of the situation she's facing because picking up your loved ones and fleeing dogmatic religiously infused persecution at the hand of the state in the face of loss and risk and peril is literally the founding story of Americans.
posted by BlueBlueElectricBlue at 12:33 PM on December 14, 2022 [7 favorites]
I should first say I've learned so much from the various opinions you all have shared.
The quote above did give me a bitter chuckle though. Partially because I'm a child of immigrants and my kin have had to flee all kinds of things, perhaps in a bit of an echo of what rhymedirective felt. I'm familiar with the stories of every flavor of Asian immigrants to this country who split their family in all kinds of heartbreakingly painful ways to ensure better lives for their children. So maybe that's not what she meant by American (although if that's true...oof.) But then maybe it's just because I find it a weird way to frame the unfairness of the situation she's facing because picking up your loved ones and fleeing dogmatic religiously infused persecution at the hand of the state in the face of loss and risk and peril is literally the founding story of Americans.
posted by BlueBlueElectricBlue at 12:33 PM on December 14, 2022 [7 favorites]
The fact that it's taken as a given by so many, including leftists, that the first solution to this injustice is to become a refugee and move elsewhere is concerning. It honestly plays right into the conservative playbook in any case, as the less resistance there is at home the more entrenched their position becomes, and the easier it is to spread their agenda to more places that are less conservative than they'd like.
Put another way, "just move" is the solution our government forced upon the indigenous here. Do you really think it'll work out better this time just because it's technically (but not really) voluntary if we don't stay and fight?
posted by Aleyn at 12:48 PM on December 14, 2022 [8 favorites]
Put another way, "just move" is the solution our government forced upon the indigenous here. Do you really think it'll work out better this time just because it's technically (but not really) voluntary if we don't stay and fight?
posted by Aleyn at 12:48 PM on December 14, 2022 [8 favorites]
so if you move, that's another thing that's going to have to start over.
If your state forces you to detransition that is a significantly worse form of starting over. Especially if evidence of trans identity is itself data that may be used against you in the future.
And I understand the bear trap that is tenure but I think most tenured parents of dead kids would absolutely make that trade if it was possible. You also lose tenure and most other job prospects, I'm pretty sure, if you go to prison for a felony related to "harming" a child. I'm not sure about Florida but I believe Texas was looking to make obtaining any medical transition support for a child the kind of crime that puts you on a registry. Being refused affirmation kills kids.
posted by Lyn Never at 1:04 PM on December 14, 2022 [6 favorites]
If your state forces you to detransition that is a significantly worse form of starting over. Especially if evidence of trans identity is itself data that may be used against you in the future.
And I understand the bear trap that is tenure but I think most tenured parents of dead kids would absolutely make that trade if it was possible. You also lose tenure and most other job prospects, I'm pretty sure, if you go to prison for a felony related to "harming" a child. I'm not sure about Florida but I believe Texas was looking to make obtaining any medical transition support for a child the kind of crime that puts you on a registry. Being refused affirmation kills kids.
posted by Lyn Never at 1:04 PM on December 14, 2022 [6 favorites]
One of the things that made me immovably pro-choice was doing clinic defense in Houston in 1992 during the Republican convention. I ended up locked inside the clinic the first day when the Operation Rescue folks surrounded the building and the cops took their sweet time removing them. The clinic I was defending was in a Black neighborhood and served by a Black doctor, and most of the patients were Black. I ended up sitting with the day's patients in the post-op waiting room while the cops did their thing and participated in an impromptu consciousness-raising session where I learned more about life in the Black neighborhoods of a city I'd lived in almost all my life than I'd managed in the preceding 25 years. One thing I took away from that day was that I couldn't possibly know what drove a pregnant person to decide on an abortion and moreover it was none of my damn business. That I simply didn't have the tools and knowledge to judge.
I have trans and queer friends who have left Texas; I have trans and queer friends who have stayed. The same with parents of trans kids. I've kicked into GoFundMes here and there; I understand and support folks who don't want Greg Abbott to make their lives any worse. But I don't know what makes people who stay stay and I don't know what makes people who leave leave and it's none of my damn business. I simply don't have the tools and knowledge to judge.
Sometimes the moral judgement is "I don't know" and that's OK.
posted by gentlyepigrams at 1:10 PM on December 14, 2022 [21 favorites]
I have trans and queer friends who have left Texas; I have trans and queer friends who have stayed. The same with parents of trans kids. I've kicked into GoFundMes here and there; I understand and support folks who don't want Greg Abbott to make their lives any worse. But I don't know what makes people who stay stay and I don't know what makes people who leave leave and it's none of my damn business. I simply don't have the tools and knowledge to judge.
Sometimes the moral judgement is "I don't know" and that's OK.
posted by gentlyepigrams at 1:10 PM on December 14, 2022 [21 favorites]
I spent a quarter of a century in Austin. That's nearly half of the time I've been on the planet, taking me from young adulthood to the beginning of middle age and from being a single man about town to husband and father of two, one of them trans.
I've spent the last 18 months of my life in Vermont.
Let me tell y'all about some of the billboards we saw in Texas when we went back during Thanksgiving to visit friends and family:
* One that accused Beto of being a pedophile and groomer.
* One that accused Beto of dishonoring the Alamo. (My take on this one is that it's essentially saying he's a race traitor)
* One that read, and I quote: "Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus, All other Genders are from Uranus."
These were billboards along I-35, the major corridor from DFW to Austin. Not graffiti, not hand-made political signs, not t-shirts, not bumper stickers.
Due to a job I held in the late 90s, I was able to visit much of that big, gorgeous and amazing state. I spent a week down in the Valley, weeks out in El Paso, Lubbock. Wichita Falls, Port Arthur, Beaumont. I met some of the most wonderful people during my time there, people who would walk uphill both directions 5 miles in the rain to give you the shirt off their backs if they thought you needed it. I know there are good people there. I know there are people fighting.
But on behalf of my trans son, I'm so glad Texas is in our rearview mirror. I'm glad he doesn't have to see billboards here in Vermont telling him he's a non-human. I'm glad the governor's mansion here in Vermont isn't trying to get all up in his business and that legislators here aren't actively trying to harm him rather than solve the pressing problems of the populace.
I would never write off an entire state -- not even the state where I was born and spent the first 17 years of my life: Florida. But things are better in Vermont for me as a black man and my son as a bi-racial trans young man.
posted by lord_wolf at 1:44 PM on December 14, 2022 [43 favorites]
I've spent the last 18 months of my life in Vermont.
Let me tell y'all about some of the billboards we saw in Texas when we went back during Thanksgiving to visit friends and family:
* One that accused Beto of being a pedophile and groomer.
* One that accused Beto of dishonoring the Alamo. (My take on this one is that it's essentially saying he's a race traitor)
* One that read, and I quote: "Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus, All other Genders are from Uranus."
These were billboards along I-35, the major corridor from DFW to Austin. Not graffiti, not hand-made political signs, not t-shirts, not bumper stickers.
Due to a job I held in the late 90s, I was able to visit much of that big, gorgeous and amazing state. I spent a week down in the Valley, weeks out in El Paso, Lubbock. Wichita Falls, Port Arthur, Beaumont. I met some of the most wonderful people during my time there, people who would walk uphill both directions 5 miles in the rain to give you the shirt off their backs if they thought you needed it. I know there are good people there. I know there are people fighting.
But on behalf of my trans son, I'm so glad Texas is in our rearview mirror. I'm glad he doesn't have to see billboards here in Vermont telling him he's a non-human. I'm glad the governor's mansion here in Vermont isn't trying to get all up in his business and that legislators here aren't actively trying to harm him rather than solve the pressing problems of the populace.
I would never write off an entire state -- not even the state where I was born and spent the first 17 years of my life: Florida. But things are better in Vermont for me as a black man and my son as a bi-racial trans young man.
posted by lord_wolf at 1:44 PM on December 14, 2022 [43 favorites]
I don't see where the mother has stated they're committed to staying in Texas no matter what, at any cost to their son. She says that they have a back-up plan.
Her son looks to be old enough to have meaningful conversations with his parents about what he wants, and what they will do if certain things happen (e.g. the state barring gender affirming care for trans kids).
I hope that's what's happening in this family; I have no reason to assume it's not.
posted by Kutsuwamushi at 2:26 PM on December 14, 2022 [3 favorites]
Her son looks to be old enough to have meaningful conversations with his parents about what he wants, and what they will do if certain things happen (e.g. the state barring gender affirming care for trans kids).
I hope that's what's happening in this family; I have no reason to assume it's not.
posted by Kutsuwamushi at 2:26 PM on December 14, 2022 [3 favorites]
I’m a little surprised at all the people who seem to think tenure is a reason to stay - tenure is already effectively gone in Georgia and Florida, why does anyone think Texas isn’t following them in the next couple of years? There’s nothing secure about academic work in this country anymore (and why wouldn’t the school cut medical benefits to families with trans members? we had to fight for trans-inclusive health care at our blue state public school!). Lack of imagination can have fatal consequences
posted by aiglet at 2:32 PM on December 14, 2022
posted by aiglet at 2:32 PM on December 14, 2022
"Why don't you just move" is about the laziest, cheapest form of "concern" you can voice for someone in a difficult situation, and
"Why don't you just move" is up there with "quit your job" on the advice spectrum. It sounds great for the giver of advice, but is much much easier to say than do.
On the other hand, if "just move" is too hard, "stay and fight" seems like a billion times more callous a solution when the odds of success seem so low. Running for office clearly didn't work in her case, and filing a lawsuit in federal court and hope the injunction sticks seems like a gamble I wouldn't wish on anyone.
But that's because they are people who move, and the descendants of people who move. They were not wealthy and privileged: they moved to find work, sometimes for only the promise of work
True; its hard to escape the bias of family history. My ancestors were invited to farm the Volga river valley 200 years ago, and left for America 100 years later when the terms of the deal changed. Those who stayed were not treated kindly by the Soviet forced ethnic relocations, so in the end it was more or less a "move or be moved" scenario. More recently, my grandfathers moved quite a bit as engineers and railroad clerks, and my family moved a lot as a kid chasing software consulting gigs. Now I've moved to a different state twice for work.
Even when I had a state job working for a state university, it was deeply troubling to accept an offer signed by a governor who's core values were so alien to me. Having a career with employer and location diversity is pretty dang valuable, and I can't fathom moving to Texas for a state uni tenure track job knowing the state politics are so far away from your own.
Current employer allows relocations to Austin, TX (and a few other hub cities) and based on who I've heard talking about it, "why don't you just move" is advice being heeded by Republicans upset at a California political system so blue that only democrats end up on the election day ballots due to primary election reforms. This Great Re-sorting is "why don't you just move" at society level scales, and as it progresses I expect the conditions to worsen in a self-sustaining fashion.
posted by pwnguin at 2:33 PM on December 14, 2022 [2 favorites]
"Why don't you just move" is up there with "quit your job" on the advice spectrum. It sounds great for the giver of advice, but is much much easier to say than do.
On the other hand, if "just move" is too hard, "stay and fight" seems like a billion times more callous a solution when the odds of success seem so low. Running for office clearly didn't work in her case, and filing a lawsuit in federal court and hope the injunction sticks seems like a gamble I wouldn't wish on anyone.
But that's because they are people who move, and the descendants of people who move. They were not wealthy and privileged: they moved to find work, sometimes for only the promise of work
True; its hard to escape the bias of family history. My ancestors were invited to farm the Volga river valley 200 years ago, and left for America 100 years later when the terms of the deal changed. Those who stayed were not treated kindly by the Soviet forced ethnic relocations, so in the end it was more or less a "move or be moved" scenario. More recently, my grandfathers moved quite a bit as engineers and railroad clerks, and my family moved a lot as a kid chasing software consulting gigs. Now I've moved to a different state twice for work.
Even when I had a state job working for a state university, it was deeply troubling to accept an offer signed by a governor who's core values were so alien to me. Having a career with employer and location diversity is pretty dang valuable, and I can't fathom moving to Texas for a state uni tenure track job knowing the state politics are so far away from your own.
Current employer allows relocations to Austin, TX (and a few other hub cities) and based on who I've heard talking about it, "why don't you just move" is advice being heeded by Republicans upset at a California political system so blue that only democrats end up on the election day ballots due to primary election reforms. This Great Re-sorting is "why don't you just move" at society level scales, and as it progresses I expect the conditions to worsen in a self-sustaining fashion.
posted by pwnguin at 2:33 PM on December 14, 2022 [2 favorites]
Those billboards on I-35, lord_wolf, are like a horror movie to me. But are they out in the flatlands or in cities, too? The Stupid is so strong in those dumb jawas. Man, I never get out of town. I don't know how it is now anymore but it used to be you had to get past Roslyn to see that sort of shit around here. And in smaller signage with more tepid sentiments at that. This stuff you describe is so much more vile and worse than the worst I have yet seen in person. Troubling thoughts come to mind.
posted by y2karl at 3:21 PM on December 14, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by y2karl at 3:21 PM on December 14, 2022 [1 favorite]
So far in Houston proper all I've seen is an increase in anti abortion billboards tying abortion to murder of already born children. And some sort of, the republicans are tough on crime from those sorts of people.
posted by Jacen at 3:35 PM on December 14, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by Jacen at 3:35 PM on December 14, 2022 [1 favorite]
Related (Slate link)
I'm not sure I can currently add more to the discussion that hasn't already been said, so please accept the link above in the positive way it was intended.
posted by a non mouse, a cow herd at 3:42 PM on December 14, 2022
I'm not sure I can currently add more to the discussion that hasn't already been said, so please accept the link above in the positive way it was intended.
posted by a non mouse, a cow herd at 3:42 PM on December 14, 2022
A couple people have asked "but what can we do" in that sort of cri-du-coeur way about this. I've been reading along - and perhaps one thing we could all do is trust that maybe the author of this piece already knows that leaving is the best thing to do when the shit hits the fan, and is already prepared to do that - but wrote this because it's not quite at her own shit-hits-the-fan point yet, and has written this to express frustration with a) the people blithely urging her to leave now, and b) the fact that this is even something that might have to happen in the first place.
I'm seeing a lot of people in here jumping to assumptions that she would put her job before her child always - that if Greg Abbot assembled some kind of "Think Of The Children" task force tonight that forcibly kidnapped children and rounded them up into some kind of forced hospital stay, that this author would just sigh and say "oh well, but my job, so I'm staying."
Instead, perhaps we could have the grace to trust that there is a point at which this parent would be saying "okay, NOW is bug-out time", and would absolutely be taking action to leave then - but they would greatly prefer it not get to that point, and so in the meantime they are trying to keep it from getting to that point, and they would prefer others help them keep things from getting to that point instead of telling them to leave before the point they have decided it's time to go.
We may not all be able to vote in Texas elections. We may not all be able to donate money to the groups working to protect trans kids. But surely we all can extend a bit of grace and compassion to a very, very scared-sounding parent, and trust that she loves her child and will do what they have to in order to protect them - including leaving at the time which they have decided is the best time for them to leave.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 3:44 PM on December 14, 2022 [14 favorites]
I'm seeing a lot of people in here jumping to assumptions that she would put her job before her child always - that if Greg Abbot assembled some kind of "Think Of The Children" task force tonight that forcibly kidnapped children and rounded them up into some kind of forced hospital stay, that this author would just sigh and say "oh well, but my job, so I'm staying."
Instead, perhaps we could have the grace to trust that there is a point at which this parent would be saying "okay, NOW is bug-out time", and would absolutely be taking action to leave then - but they would greatly prefer it not get to that point, and so in the meantime they are trying to keep it from getting to that point, and they would prefer others help them keep things from getting to that point instead of telling them to leave before the point they have decided it's time to go.
We may not all be able to vote in Texas elections. We may not all be able to donate money to the groups working to protect trans kids. But surely we all can extend a bit of grace and compassion to a very, very scared-sounding parent, and trust that she loves her child and will do what they have to in order to protect them - including leaving at the time which they have decided is the best time for them to leave.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 3:44 PM on December 14, 2022 [14 favorites]
I’m a little surprised at all the people who seem to think tenure is a reason to stay - tenure is already effectively gone in Georgia and Florida, why does anyone think Texas isn’t following them in the next couple of years?
Well first off the writer isn't talking about "in a couple of years," she's talking about today. And you need health insurance today. In a couple of years if Texas dismantles tenure then their calculus will change, obviously.
This conversation is always going to go at cross purposes because it's about one person but also about every person. Setting aside that some individuals probably can and should move, we should never say "just move" to someone who's made a compelling case for not, in fact, currently moving, that's just rude. In this particular case it's edging close to basically both sides calling this woman a harmful/abusive parent when all she's trying to do is live her fucking life and take care of her kid.
picking up your loved ones and fleeing dogmatic religiously infused persecution at the hand of the state in the face of loss and risk and peril is literally the founding story of Americans
Is this...not why in particular people are so offended by the idea of the United States, safe haven to refugees* through the ages, becoming a place in which its own citizens become refugees within its borders? I'm as cynical about this shithole country as anyone but I thought the whole point was, we are supposed to be better than this, that was like our whole deal, that citizens of this nation enjoy its protections regardless of where they live in its borders?? No?
*sometimes
Given the events of the last half decade, I think every American should be developing an escape plan from the country,
Man I dunno. My own ancestors were 50/50 on fleeing when the Nazis came. A couple of them (so I'm told) simply took the stance of "fuck em, this is my goddamn house, let em come and take it." They died, obviously, and probably horribly, and possibly preventably (see above, how the US is only sometimes a haven for refugees). Nonetheless, I myself tend to feel similarly.
Fuck 'em, this is my goddamn country. Let em come and take it.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 3:46 PM on December 14, 2022 [10 favorites]
Well first off the writer isn't talking about "in a couple of years," she's talking about today. And you need health insurance today. In a couple of years if Texas dismantles tenure then their calculus will change, obviously.
This conversation is always going to go at cross purposes because it's about one person but also about every person. Setting aside that some individuals probably can and should move, we should never say "just move" to someone who's made a compelling case for not, in fact, currently moving, that's just rude. In this particular case it's edging close to basically both sides calling this woman a harmful/abusive parent when all she's trying to do is live her fucking life and take care of her kid.
picking up your loved ones and fleeing dogmatic religiously infused persecution at the hand of the state in the face of loss and risk and peril is literally the founding story of Americans
Is this...not why in particular people are so offended by the idea of the United States, safe haven to refugees* through the ages, becoming a place in which its own citizens become refugees within its borders? I'm as cynical about this shithole country as anyone but I thought the whole point was, we are supposed to be better than this, that was like our whole deal, that citizens of this nation enjoy its protections regardless of where they live in its borders?? No?
*sometimes
Given the events of the last half decade, I think every American should be developing an escape plan from the country,
Man I dunno. My own ancestors were 50/50 on fleeing when the Nazis came. A couple of them (so I'm told) simply took the stance of "fuck em, this is my goddamn house, let em come and take it." They died, obviously, and probably horribly, and possibly preventably (see above, how the US is only sometimes a haven for refugees). Nonetheless, I myself tend to feel similarly.
Fuck 'em, this is my goddamn country. Let em come and take it.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 3:46 PM on December 14, 2022 [10 favorites]
Instead, perhaps we could have the grace to trust that there is a point at which this parent would be saying "okay, NOW is bug-out time"
She ran for office, she tried to change things, she lost. Now she's put a target on her back, her opponents know her child is trans, and agents of the state might interfere in her parental rights, to say nothing of the possible stochastic violence the family faces if someone goes on Twitter to say "hey a trans kid lives here, lets go git 'em"
I say this as the grandchild of concentration camp survivors: As some have mentioned above, by the time you know it's bug-out time it's too late to bug out.
posted by The Pluto Gangsta at 4:06 PM on December 14, 2022 [11 favorites]
She ran for office, she tried to change things, she lost. Now she's put a target on her back, her opponents know her child is trans, and agents of the state might interfere in her parental rights, to say nothing of the possible stochastic violence the family faces if someone goes on Twitter to say "hey a trans kid lives here, lets go git 'em"
I say this as the grandchild of concentration camp survivors: As some have mentioned above, by the time you know it's bug-out time it's too late to bug out.
posted by The Pluto Gangsta at 4:06 PM on December 14, 2022 [11 favorites]
Don't we think this is part of the conspiracy to gerrymander the whole country? Make states actively repellent to a certain group of people and they leave, locking that state in for the right wing for (they hope) generations. I don't know but I heard a lot of anecdotes about "fed up" right wingers moving to Florida where they could bask in their "freedoms" under DeSantis. And, obviously, people have left that state for the same reason. Is it enough of a demographic shift to secure Florida politics for the right wing? Maybe. Without changing how the electoral college works, we'll need to accept that it's in the right wing best interests to make certain states as anti-progressive as possible.
posted by amanda at 5:19 PM on December 14, 2022 [4 favorites]
posted by amanda at 5:19 PM on December 14, 2022 [4 favorites]
Given the events of the last half decade, I think every American should be developing an escape plan from the country, not just Texas or whatever. Obviously that's not possible for everyone
Other countries have immigration laws too.
I find that Americans often forget this when they tell other Americans that they should leave.
posted by Kutsuwamushi at 6:09 PM on December 14, 2022 [11 favorites]
Other countries have immigration laws too.
I find that Americans often forget this when they tell other Americans that they should leave.
posted by Kutsuwamushi at 6:09 PM on December 14, 2022 [11 favorites]
Given the events of the last half decade, I think every American should be developing an escape plan from the country, not just Texas or whatever. Obviously that's not possible for everyone
Other countries have immigration laws too.
I find that Americans often forget this when they tell other Americans that they should leave.
If only they had said something to the effect of "Obviously that's not possible for everyone".
posted by Etrigan at 6:20 PM on December 14, 2022 [1 favorite]
Other countries have immigration laws too.
I find that Americans often forget this when they tell other Americans that they should leave.
If only they had said something to the effect of "Obviously that's not possible for everyone".
posted by Etrigan at 6:20 PM on December 14, 2022 [1 favorite]
The problem is that we've been teaching people that this is how you "resolve" conflict, especially when dealing with bigots - that you are "obliged" to leave, instead of the bigot being told that they need to learn to live in peace or leave.
On top of that, this is the American foundational myth. The pilgrims didn't stay in England and fight for (or against, more accurately) religious reforms, they up and moved. Every willing immigrant to America left a worse situation to hopefully find a better one somewhere else. It's ingrained in the psyche of the nation. So of course, "if you don't like it, just leave" is on the tip of both allies' and critics' lounges.
posted by thecjm at 7:05 PM on December 14, 2022 [2 favorites]
On top of that, this is the American foundational myth. The pilgrims didn't stay in England and fight for (or against, more accurately) religious reforms, they up and moved. Every willing immigrant to America left a worse situation to hopefully find a better one somewhere else. It's ingrained in the psyche of the nation. So of course, "if you don't like it, just leave" is on the tip of both allies' and critics' lounges.
posted by thecjm at 7:05 PM on December 14, 2022 [2 favorites]
If only they had said something to the effect of "Obviously that's not possible for everyone".
I saw that, but combined with the suggestion that every American make an escape plan, it seemed rather like an exception granted for people with specific circumstances that prevent them from from leaving.
But the majority of Americans cannot just immigrate to a safer country, even if you put aside things like the financial or social costs of moving. The default is "no," with some exceptions for highly skilled workers, people with family ties, massive piles of cash, etc.
posted by Kutsuwamushi at 7:14 PM on December 14, 2022 [9 favorites]
I saw that, but combined with the suggestion that every American make an escape plan, it seemed rather like an exception granted for people with specific circumstances that prevent them from from leaving.
But the majority of Americans cannot just immigrate to a safer country, even if you put aside things like the financial or social costs of moving. The default is "no," with some exceptions for highly skilled workers, people with family ties, massive piles of cash, etc.
posted by Kutsuwamushi at 7:14 PM on December 14, 2022 [9 favorites]
There isn't a safe place, but no matter how much I liked Texas, I'd be looking.
I visited a fried the other day, she's in her 90s and was lucky to have been sent from her home in Berlin to a school in England. Her parents were on the last boast out of Bremerhaven to the US, lucky to have a relative here and lucky to get visas. Other family members were killed in the camps.
I see the mounting hate in the US, directed at gays, people who are trans, Jews, liberals, Blacks and I'm scared, skeeved, and want to fight back. It's hard to know how, but I know silence isn't going to work. I find the yard signs - In this house we like blah, blah - a bit twee, but am now re-thinking. I know I'm reacting hard, but hate seems to be multiplying.
posted by theora55 at 7:31 PM on December 14, 2022 [1 favorite]
I visited a fried the other day, she's in her 90s and was lucky to have been sent from her home in Berlin to a school in England. Her parents were on the last boast out of Bremerhaven to the US, lucky to have a relative here and lucky to get visas. Other family members were killed in the camps.
I see the mounting hate in the US, directed at gays, people who are trans, Jews, liberals, Blacks and I'm scared, skeeved, and want to fight back. It's hard to know how, but I know silence isn't going to work. I find the yard signs - In this house we like blah, blah - a bit twee, but am now re-thinking. I know I'm reacting hard, but hate seems to be multiplying.
posted by theora55 at 7:31 PM on December 14, 2022 [1 favorite]
On top of that, this is the American foundational myth. The pilgrims didn't stay in England and fight for (or against, more accurately) religious reforms, they up and moved.
Yeah, about that....you're not wrong that the pilgrims fought against religious reforms. What I've learned recently adds an interesting wrinkle to that - the religious reforms in question weren't restrictions, actually. The pilgrims were bent out of shape that England had become MORE tolerant, and left in search of freedom to set up a MORE restrictive society, as I understand it.
I visited a fried the other day, she's in her 90s and was lucky to have been sent from her home in Berlin to a school in England. Her parents were on the last boast out of Bremerhaven to the US, lucky to have a relative here and lucky to get visas.
....The key word there is "lucky".
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 8:03 PM on December 14, 2022 [3 favorites]
Yeah, about that....you're not wrong that the pilgrims fought against religious reforms. What I've learned recently adds an interesting wrinkle to that - the religious reforms in question weren't restrictions, actually. The pilgrims were bent out of shape that England had become MORE tolerant, and left in search of freedom to set up a MORE restrictive society, as I understand it.
I visited a fried the other day, she's in her 90s and was lucky to have been sent from her home in Berlin to a school in England. Her parents were on the last boast out of Bremerhaven to the US, lucky to have a relative here and lucky to get visas.
....The key word there is "lucky".
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 8:03 PM on December 14, 2022 [3 favorites]
Your number one job as a parent is to protect your child. If that means walking away from your job and your business and your friends in order to keep your child safe, then that is what you do. Even if it means you have to become a Denny’s waitress or an adjunct professor. You give up your privileges and you adjust to a lower standard of living to save your child’s life.
And it is the job of those who don’t have trans children to protect to then stay behind and fight for the rights of those who had to leave.
And yes, for the record, I did essentially this. I uprooted my entire life, walked away from a career, and moved to a place where I didn’t know a soul within 2,000 miles, and I did it for my child.
posted by MexicanYenta at 8:21 PM on December 14, 2022 [7 favorites]
And it is the job of those who don’t have trans children to protect to then stay behind and fight for the rights of those who had to leave.
And yes, for the record, I did essentially this. I uprooted my entire life, walked away from a career, and moved to a place where I didn’t know a soul within 2,000 miles, and I did it for my child.
posted by MexicanYenta at 8:21 PM on December 14, 2022 [7 favorites]
With the rising tide of fascism all over the world and the diminishing abilities of liberal constitutional orders to stop it, the number of safe places to run is rapidly shrinking. Western Europe may be fine for white people right now -- it isn't for brown skinned people and I am hearing this from friends and people I know who have worked or are working there as professionals. With Germany having repeated coup attempts staffed by soldiers from their most elite military unit, the KSK, even after it was supposedly gone over with a fine tooth comb, and the continuing success of AfD, and the sharp rightward tilt of the Nordics, I wouldn't bet on them either for white people.
Even in the US, the historically LGBTQ friendly regions of the coasts have a brewing right wing backlash, driven by a liberal order that can't get housing costs under control, and the houseless population that ensues when housing is very expensive. In talking with people who work in politics here on the West Coast I'm told that even in reputationally very progressive areas, the sheer hatred that is aimed at houseless people is escalating even from self described liberals.
In the end, running can make sense on an atomic level. But as a community that values trans lives, people will eventually have to dig in our heels somwhere and fight. No one is coming to save us.
posted by wuwei at 9:09 PM on December 14, 2022 [6 favorites]
Even in the US, the historically LGBTQ friendly regions of the coasts have a brewing right wing backlash, driven by a liberal order that can't get housing costs under control, and the houseless population that ensues when housing is very expensive. In talking with people who work in politics here on the West Coast I'm told that even in reputationally very progressive areas, the sheer hatred that is aimed at houseless people is escalating even from self described liberals.
In the end, running can make sense on an atomic level. But as a community that values trans lives, people will eventually have to dig in our heels somwhere and fight. No one is coming to save us.
posted by wuwei at 9:09 PM on December 14, 2022 [6 favorites]
I say this as the grandchild of concentration camp survivors: As some have mentioned above, by the time you know it's bug-out time it's too late to bug out.
Thinking same. I didn't know that she was a political candidate in Texas who lost, but that sure explains "Less than a week later, we had a DFPS caseworker on our couch interrogating my children." If they are ALREADY TARGETS, then bugout time is probably, um....
I don't want to nag the woman into leaving, but literally, her family is already being harassed. It may be a matter of time, and I don't know how much time, before it gets worse.
posted by jenfullmoon at 9:10 PM on December 14, 2022 [3 favorites]
Thinking same. I didn't know that she was a political candidate in Texas who lost, but that sure explains "Less than a week later, we had a DFPS caseworker on our couch interrogating my children." If they are ALREADY TARGETS, then bugout time is probably, um....
I don't want to nag the woman into leaving, but literally, her family is already being harassed. It may be a matter of time, and I don't know how much time, before it gets worse.
posted by jenfullmoon at 9:10 PM on December 14, 2022 [3 favorites]
Texas is the future of the USA, y'all. No place to run.
posted by eustatic at 9:39 PM on December 14, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by eustatic at 9:39 PM on December 14, 2022 [3 favorites]
One big problem with the "leave the United States" rhetoric is that many countries (Canada, Britain, Australia) won't accept migrants who are Disabled or chronically ill.
(The argument is that they will cost too much in social security benefits/healthcare.)
This has lead to ludicrous situations where eg a 30 year old qualified and practising medical doctor was denied immigration because his son had Down's syndrome.
posted by chariot pulled by cassowaries at 9:54 PM on December 14, 2022 [13 favorites]
(The argument is that they will cost too much in social security benefits/healthcare.)
This has lead to ludicrous situations where eg a 30 year old qualified and practising medical doctor was denied immigration because his son had Down's syndrome.
posted by chariot pulled by cassowaries at 9:54 PM on December 14, 2022 [13 favorites]
Tentatively, the parents should start substacks and/or patreons to have a less location-restricted source of income.
Any advice of the form "Just [do whatever] is an attempt to ignore difficulties with doing whatever.
posted by Nancy Lebovitz at 11:14 PM on December 14, 2022 [2 favorites]
Any advice of the form "Just [do whatever] is an attempt to ignore difficulties with doing whatever.
posted by Nancy Lebovitz at 11:14 PM on December 14, 2022 [2 favorites]
As a trans woman, I am mostly experiencing the news and these discussions as another tick of the clock closer to the point when I do in fact have to "bug out" or worse. The pace has been accelerating at a terrifying rate... and depressingly, this all matches the most reasonably-cynical outlooks from five years ago.
We see how we are othered even by our allies, how our survival is secondary and our needs likely to be bargained away, a reasonable concession in the culture wars.
All the salient points have been made... there's not really anywhere to flee to. The costs are extremely high, reestablishing a new life and legal identity from scratch are not unfamiliar burdens but I don't want to do it again on nightmare difficulty. Really.
posted by polyhedron at 4:20 AM on December 15, 2022 [8 favorites]
We see how we are othered even by our allies, how our survival is secondary and our needs likely to be bargained away, a reasonable concession in the culture wars.
All the salient points have been made... there's not really anywhere to flee to. The costs are extremely high, reestablishing a new life and legal identity from scratch are not unfamiliar burdens but I don't want to do it again on nightmare difficulty. Really.
posted by polyhedron at 4:20 AM on December 15, 2022 [8 favorites]
* Police need to step in and punish bullies and bigots because that kind of behavior isn't right.
I wish i could believe the police would protect trans people. In many a counterprotest to anti-trans bigots they've really only arrested trans people. Historically they've viewed us as undesirables and likely sex workers. They often don't treat dead trans people with respect. They didn't do much at Club Q. They've got a well-known white supremacy problem.
---
I have no argument that any one person should "just leave." But I do know where I live, in Illinois, no one will be investigating you for child abuse simply because your kid is trans. Which seems better? I understand all the complexities, but I couldn't handle that amount of scrutiny for existing.
I live in Illinois too, and yeah, like dcfs isn't going to investigate parents of trans kids, but then again, a bakery that was going to hold a drag brunch got its windows smashed in only to have the government of the village it's a part of refuse to do much to protect it. The losing gubernatorial candidate introduced a bill targeting trans kids, and yeah, it's not likely to pass even the committee stage, but how safe are we really? The hate is here too. What happens if the federal government continues its rightward shift? What happens when federal judiciary rulings come into conflict with state laws? Our safety as trans people, Queer people, seem to be built on a foundation of sand in swampy soil filled with ramps.
---
One of my kid's trans friends stayed with us for ~6 months when his parents moved out of state to Florida. One of the reasons was friction with his folks, but the big reason was that his doctors are here. From what I've heard, finding a doctor who can help with transitioning's hard, so if you move, that's another thing that's going to have to start over.
Yes. Even in deep blue Chicago it's hard to find a new doctor if your previous one becomes unavailable, and that's with nice, expensive private insurance--it took me about a year and some change to find a doctor willing to manage my HRT rather than just continue maintenance prescriptions, and be willing to work with insurance companies for things like pre-authorizations. The other option is to go to a publicly funded clinic like Howard Brown, which is fine, but also enormously understaffed and overtaxed in resources. And I'm an adult. It's so much more difficult if you're a teenager.
---
Given the events of the last half decade, I think every American should be developing an escape plan from the country, not just Texas or whatever. Obviously that's not possible for everyone, but I think it's a real possibility that many or most people in this thread won't want to live anywhere in the USA anymore at some point in the next decade. I don't think it's more than 50% likely or anything but it's some kind of relevant probability that is worth taking seriously. Is there anything that you can do now to make leaving possible or easier?
I think one of the sadder things for many of us in diasporic communities is that sometimes it's only been a single generation since our families came here to escape something else; i was born a scant four years after my mother left her homeland, then under the boot of a dictator, and not even a generation later, here I am looking at all of my bad options. Emigrating by choice would be nice! I have a relatively in-demand skillset. But then again, A lot of the countries one would want to move to have strict requirements--I'm on the older edge of it and thus lose points. I'm diagnosed as a transsexual, and thus lose points. Do i refuse to get diagnosed for some other medical conditions that i likely have to prevent further point loss? Most countries don't really like having people with chronic conditions, be they physical, mental, or something else immigrate--and i'm on the healthier side of the spectrum. Do i take my chance with asylum applications when shit hits the fan? Do i put myself up on sites and hope someone metaphorically offers a green card, which would just underscore gross stereotypes of women who look like me? Leaving might give me safety but it'll also cut off all my roots; moving states is bad enough, but between Texas, Georgia, Illinois, and Oregon at least, by and large, things like renting apartments and job websites are common, as is the language.
posted by i used to be someone else at 8:21 AM on December 15, 2022 [6 favorites]
I wish i could believe the police would protect trans people. In many a counterprotest to anti-trans bigots they've really only arrested trans people. Historically they've viewed us as undesirables and likely sex workers. They often don't treat dead trans people with respect. They didn't do much at Club Q. They've got a well-known white supremacy problem.
---
I have no argument that any one person should "just leave." But I do know where I live, in Illinois, no one will be investigating you for child abuse simply because your kid is trans. Which seems better? I understand all the complexities, but I couldn't handle that amount of scrutiny for existing.
I live in Illinois too, and yeah, like dcfs isn't going to investigate parents of trans kids, but then again, a bakery that was going to hold a drag brunch got its windows smashed in only to have the government of the village it's a part of refuse to do much to protect it. The losing gubernatorial candidate introduced a bill targeting trans kids, and yeah, it's not likely to pass even the committee stage, but how safe are we really? The hate is here too. What happens if the federal government continues its rightward shift? What happens when federal judiciary rulings come into conflict with state laws? Our safety as trans people, Queer people, seem to be built on a foundation of sand in swampy soil filled with ramps.
---
One of my kid's trans friends stayed with us for ~6 months when his parents moved out of state to Florida. One of the reasons was friction with his folks, but the big reason was that his doctors are here. From what I've heard, finding a doctor who can help with transitioning's hard, so if you move, that's another thing that's going to have to start over.
Yes. Even in deep blue Chicago it's hard to find a new doctor if your previous one becomes unavailable, and that's with nice, expensive private insurance--it took me about a year and some change to find a doctor willing to manage my HRT rather than just continue maintenance prescriptions, and be willing to work with insurance companies for things like pre-authorizations. The other option is to go to a publicly funded clinic like Howard Brown, which is fine, but also enormously understaffed and overtaxed in resources. And I'm an adult. It's so much more difficult if you're a teenager.
---
Given the events of the last half decade, I think every American should be developing an escape plan from the country, not just Texas or whatever. Obviously that's not possible for everyone, but I think it's a real possibility that many or most people in this thread won't want to live anywhere in the USA anymore at some point in the next decade. I don't think it's more than 50% likely or anything but it's some kind of relevant probability that is worth taking seriously. Is there anything that you can do now to make leaving possible or easier?
I think one of the sadder things for many of us in diasporic communities is that sometimes it's only been a single generation since our families came here to escape something else; i was born a scant four years after my mother left her homeland, then under the boot of a dictator, and not even a generation later, here I am looking at all of my bad options. Emigrating by choice would be nice! I have a relatively in-demand skillset. But then again, A lot of the countries one would want to move to have strict requirements--I'm on the older edge of it and thus lose points. I'm diagnosed as a transsexual, and thus lose points. Do i refuse to get diagnosed for some other medical conditions that i likely have to prevent further point loss? Most countries don't really like having people with chronic conditions, be they physical, mental, or something else immigrate--and i'm on the healthier side of the spectrum. Do i take my chance with asylum applications when shit hits the fan? Do i put myself up on sites and hope someone metaphorically offers a green card, which would just underscore gross stereotypes of women who look like me? Leaving might give me safety but it'll also cut off all my roots; moving states is bad enough, but between Texas, Georgia, Illinois, and Oregon at least, by and large, things like renting apartments and job websites are common, as is the language.
posted by i used to be someone else at 8:21 AM on December 15, 2022 [6 favorites]
I don't think it's 100% safe anywhere. But being investigated by DCFS is HUGE, and a direct thing this author is experiencing. I can't see how it wouldn't be better to be somewhere where that isn't likely to happen.
posted by tiny frying pan at 9:07 AM on December 15, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by tiny frying pan at 9:07 AM on December 15, 2022 [1 favorite]
Sure. But moving to another state with the direction the legislatures and judiciaries nationwide/federally have been going, it seems more like a race against the clock.
Will this trans kid become an adult before an investigation is opened and laws become more restrictive and interpretations of said laws become more discriminatory? And if they do, will they be put on a registry somewhere as an adult?
It certainly doesn't help when major mainstream publications that are purportedly "liberal", like the atlantic, nytimes, nymag, etc., do their utmost to make gender affirming care seem unseemly and dangerous to children.
posted by i used to be someone else at 9:57 AM on December 15, 2022 [1 favorite]
Will this trans kid become an adult before an investigation is opened and laws become more restrictive and interpretations of said laws become more discriminatory? And if they do, will they be put on a registry somewhere as an adult?
It certainly doesn't help when major mainstream publications that are purportedly "liberal", like the atlantic, nytimes, nymag, etc., do their utmost to make gender affirming care seem unseemly and dangerous to children.
posted by i used to be someone else at 9:57 AM on December 15, 2022 [1 favorite]
Perhaps in their position you or I would make different choices. But you are not in their exact position, with their views of the costs and benefits of each of their plausible options. And in any case, different people can look at the exact same information and place their bets in different ways.
All you can do about their choice is trust that they are making the best decision they can with imperfect options and uncertain prognoses. Even if it the outcomes of their current decision turn out worse than they were reasonably expecting that still doesn't mean their decision is wrong.
posted by plonkee at 10:07 AM on December 15, 2022 [2 favorites]
All you can do about their choice is trust that they are making the best decision they can with imperfect options and uncertain prognoses. Even if it the outcomes of their current decision turn out worse than they were reasonably expecting that still doesn't mean their decision is wrong.
posted by plonkee at 10:07 AM on December 15, 2022 [2 favorites]
I agree - was only speaking for myself, tried to make that clear in my original comment.
posted by tiny frying pan at 10:11 AM on December 15, 2022
posted by tiny frying pan at 10:11 AM on December 15, 2022
My trans wife and I have been trying to flee Indiana since Trump was elected. Have you tried job-searching as a transgender woman?
It's remarkable how many fantastically enthusiastic responses she gets to resumes, until they see her. It's remarkable how many absolutely fantastic interviews she has that go nowhere. She's fifty now, so she has age going against her, as well.
And me? I write queer books for teens, which are currently being banned more than bought.
I'm disabled, as is our child. Consequently, our plan is... wife runs with our daughter, and hopes that somewhere will take them as refugees, while they leave me behind. That's our plan. Literally.
posted by headspace at 1:21 PM on December 15, 2022 [6 favorites]
It's remarkable how many fantastically enthusiastic responses she gets to resumes, until they see her. It's remarkable how many absolutely fantastic interviews she has that go nowhere. She's fifty now, so she has age going against her, as well.
And me? I write queer books for teens, which are currently being banned more than bought.
I'm disabled, as is our child. Consequently, our plan is... wife runs with our daughter, and hopes that somewhere will take them as refugees, while they leave me behind. That's our plan. Literally.
posted by headspace at 1:21 PM on December 15, 2022 [6 favorites]
Those of you trapped in the US may want to know that the Pink Pistols exist.
…even if that pistol is actually a SCAR with night scope and hollow-point. In those states where such is legal, of course. Definitely not where it’s illegal, never, no.
If you want to go fully nuts, there are states where a suitably motivated individual can buy a Ma Deuce (pro tip, aim high so the slugs rain down from above, obviating most casual forms of cover). Also, consider nitrogen storage for the ammo.
Not joking.
posted by aramaic at 8:17 PM on December 15, 2022
…even if that pistol is actually a SCAR with night scope and hollow-point. In those states where such is legal, of course. Definitely not where it’s illegal, never, no.
If you want to go fully nuts, there are states where a suitably motivated individual can buy a Ma Deuce (pro tip, aim high so the slugs rain down from above, obviating most casual forms of cover). Also, consider nitrogen storage for the ammo.
Not joking.
posted by aramaic at 8:17 PM on December 15, 2022
If only it were that easy.
The idea that a personal arms cache could possibly constitute a viable form of defence against the State is fantasy. Getting heavily armed in response to State overreach has historically not ended well for individuals or minority groups, because the State always has access to more arms and more personnel, controls more territory, and can fund more propaganda.
No problem that any family experiences from DCFS harassment is going to be made better by getting on the wrong side of DoJ as well.
The only workable response to finding fuckwits holding the levers of power, in a democracy, is electing non-fuckwits to replace them. This requires that a supermajority of citizens come to recognize the incumbent fuckwits as the fuckwits they are. The only way to achieve that is via sustained and effective awareness campaigning.
People don't like to change their worldview and will readily seize on any excuse not to. Shooting at public servants is a pretty potent excuse. So not only is armed resistance futile, it's counterproductive.
posted by flabdablet at 10:20 PM on December 15, 2022 [9 favorites]
The idea that a personal arms cache could possibly constitute a viable form of defence against the State is fantasy. Getting heavily armed in response to State overreach has historically not ended well for individuals or minority groups, because the State always has access to more arms and more personnel, controls more territory, and can fund more propaganda.
No problem that any family experiences from DCFS harassment is going to be made better by getting on the wrong side of DoJ as well.
The only workable response to finding fuckwits holding the levers of power, in a democracy, is electing non-fuckwits to replace them. This requires that a supermajority of citizens come to recognize the incumbent fuckwits as the fuckwits they are. The only way to achieve that is via sustained and effective awareness campaigning.
People don't like to change their worldview and will readily seize on any excuse not to. Shooting at public servants is a pretty potent excuse. So not only is armed resistance futile, it's counterproductive.
posted by flabdablet at 10:20 PM on December 15, 2022 [9 favorites]
I came across this link and thought it to be a good post here on MeFi. And it really was, and is.
This fine family, the Briggle family, they got right into my heart as soon as I began to read of their plight.
I've been following this thread, I've not been just scanning it, more trying to really give it full attention as it has unrolled. I wanted to hear of your take on this; I've learned a lot about MeFi members through this thread.
~~~~~
I live in Texas and I, like this family, I really love the good parts of Texas. Of which there are oh so many. If I'm going to live in the US I'm going to live in Texas, and hopefully Austin, which is not of course as charming as it once was but is instead as charming as it now is. Times change and so does everything in those times and no avoiding it but I don't want to avoid Austin; I mostly like the changes. No way I could live here had I not inked a mortgage in 1993, sortof like buying Apple stock in the mid 90s. But I did ink that note.
So I know a bit of what that couple is experiencing with not wanting to upset their Texas Apple cart. (As it were.) What was/is crystal clear to me is that their fear this is not just a Texas problem but is instead a very valid fear that anywhere they go could change from being A Very Good Place To Raise A Trans ChildTM to A Goddamned Horror Show Place To Raise A Trans ChildTM. This problem can happen anywhere, no matter where they move; regardless what the current status is it can change, and change fast.
~~~~~
I've read the comments of people saying that they'd just buck up, stand tall and fight back if anyone came for them. That's a swell idea, and a great ideal, but it's not at all realistic -- the assholes that create these laws have phalanxes of lawyers, and phalanxes of social workers, backed by and interwoven with phalanxes of armed cops to do their bidding. They aren't going to go away just because you tell them that they are wrong, they won't go away just because you tell them to, they can't be wished away just because they are assholes. (See: Republicans.) (See also: Christian theocracies.)
I am pretty sure the Briggle family are reading the situation correctly. They know what time it is. They are wide awake to the entirety of the problem they face, just to love their child.
~~~~~
Because they are really smart, and able to probably find a way to work from anywhere, should everything go left-handed, I kept thinking of a place where they almost certainly would not face any harassment due to parenting a trans child. Thailand. They would have to have a good-sized chunk of change to make it happen, it's not the same as moving across the city or across the US. But it could be done.
Thailand has 5,000 years of Buddhism behind them, everything I've read of their culture shows them to be remarkably judgment free.
Were this family to move to the other side of the world, they wouldn't be able to dash down the street to grab a cup of coffee with their sister-in-law. But they could go to a nice coffee shop and use Signal or Facetime or any other app and talk to their sister-in-law that way. It's not the same but it's not bad; I always think of sailors not speaking with their families for *years* and not even able to send a letter, it seems they did OK. Facetime is upwards of seventeen thousand times better than what those sailors had.
I do not know how difficult it would be for this family to pull this off. For starters, maybe husband stays in the US, keep that solid gig and that great insurance. I bet that Amber Briggle doesn't even need to sell her compainy, she could pull one of her best people on up into management and then using Zoom, she could keep what she's built and, equally important, she could keep that income stream coming in. They would have to purchase insurance in Thailand but it's not like they'd be blazing some trail no one has ever walked before, there is tons of information available online, people writing how they handled this, or that, or the other thing. What I've read, insurance is inexpensive there, and they have world-class health care in any larger city, physicians trained here, et cet and et cet.
They could keep their house and rent it out, probably they'd make enough to pay their house note plus make a few bucks on top of that, month by month. That way they could keep in on the rising prices in US real estate, all the while gathering in on a great source of passive income.
I'd bet that the whole family has passports, and I'd bet they know exactly where those passports are. We know they have a plan in place, maybe Thailand could be Plan 2.
I realize that it would be a huge move, they'd get turned inside out. But, as so many in this thread have said, probably the most important job any human can have is raising their children in love and safety.
~~~~~
Gibran wrote about resentful prude hair-shirts: "What of the cripple who cannot dance?" Abbott is paralyed from his middle back, a huge limb broke of a huge live oak tree and fell right onto him. Point being, Abbott can't fuck; I can't help but wonder if he's not thinking "Well, hell, my sex life is gone, so I'm gonna fuck over anyone else who is seeking joy in their love." With that anger running as his underlying theme, plus he's got bibles to hide behind, it's no wonder to me that he takes the position he does.
~~~~~
It's been one hell of a thread; I've learned a lot about the dilemma that people find themselves in should they have a child that they want to do best by, best for that child. I've also learned one hell of a lot about the MeFi community.
posted by dancestoblue at 2:27 PM on December 16, 2022
This fine family, the Briggle family, they got right into my heart as soon as I began to read of their plight.
I've been following this thread, I've not been just scanning it, more trying to really give it full attention as it has unrolled. I wanted to hear of your take on this; I've learned a lot about MeFi members through this thread.
~~~~~
I live in Texas and I, like this family, I really love the good parts of Texas. Of which there are oh so many. If I'm going to live in the US I'm going to live in Texas, and hopefully Austin, which is not of course as charming as it once was but is instead as charming as it now is. Times change and so does everything in those times and no avoiding it but I don't want to avoid Austin; I mostly like the changes. No way I could live here had I not inked a mortgage in 1993, sortof like buying Apple stock in the mid 90s. But I did ink that note.
So I know a bit of what that couple is experiencing with not wanting to upset their Texas Apple cart. (As it were.) What was/is crystal clear to me is that their fear this is not just a Texas problem but is instead a very valid fear that anywhere they go could change from being A Very Good Place To Raise A Trans ChildTM to A Goddamned Horror Show Place To Raise A Trans ChildTM. This problem can happen anywhere, no matter where they move; regardless what the current status is it can change, and change fast.
~~~~~
I've read the comments of people saying that they'd just buck up, stand tall and fight back if anyone came for them. That's a swell idea, and a great ideal, but it's not at all realistic -- the assholes that create these laws have phalanxes of lawyers, and phalanxes of social workers, backed by and interwoven with phalanxes of armed cops to do their bidding. They aren't going to go away just because you tell them that they are wrong, they won't go away just because you tell them to, they can't be wished away just because they are assholes. (See: Republicans.) (See also: Christian theocracies.)
I am pretty sure the Briggle family are reading the situation correctly. They know what time it is. They are wide awake to the entirety of the problem they face, just to love their child.
~~~~~
Because they are really smart, and able to probably find a way to work from anywhere, should everything go left-handed, I kept thinking of a place where they almost certainly would not face any harassment due to parenting a trans child. Thailand. They would have to have a good-sized chunk of change to make it happen, it's not the same as moving across the city or across the US. But it could be done.
Thailand has 5,000 years of Buddhism behind them, everything I've read of their culture shows them to be remarkably judgment free.
Were this family to move to the other side of the world, they wouldn't be able to dash down the street to grab a cup of coffee with their sister-in-law. But they could go to a nice coffee shop and use Signal or Facetime or any other app and talk to their sister-in-law that way. It's not the same but it's not bad; I always think of sailors not speaking with their families for *years* and not even able to send a letter, it seems they did OK. Facetime is upwards of seventeen thousand times better than what those sailors had.
I do not know how difficult it would be for this family to pull this off. For starters, maybe husband stays in the US, keep that solid gig and that great insurance. I bet that Amber Briggle doesn't even need to sell her compainy, she could pull one of her best people on up into management and then using Zoom, she could keep what she's built and, equally important, she could keep that income stream coming in. They would have to purchase insurance in Thailand but it's not like they'd be blazing some trail no one has ever walked before, there is tons of information available online, people writing how they handled this, or that, or the other thing. What I've read, insurance is inexpensive there, and they have world-class health care in any larger city, physicians trained here, et cet and et cet.
They could keep their house and rent it out, probably they'd make enough to pay their house note plus make a few bucks on top of that, month by month. That way they could keep in on the rising prices in US real estate, all the while gathering in on a great source of passive income.
I'd bet that the whole family has passports, and I'd bet they know exactly where those passports are. We know they have a plan in place, maybe Thailand could be Plan 2.
I realize that it would be a huge move, they'd get turned inside out. But, as so many in this thread have said, probably the most important job any human can have is raising their children in love and safety.
~~~~~
Gibran wrote about resentful prude hair-shirts: "What of the cripple who cannot dance?" Abbott is paralyed from his middle back, a huge limb broke of a huge live oak tree and fell right onto him. Point being, Abbott can't fuck; I can't help but wonder if he's not thinking "Well, hell, my sex life is gone, so I'm gonna fuck over anyone else who is seeking joy in their love." With that anger running as his underlying theme, plus he's got bibles to hide behind, it's no wonder to me that he takes the position he does.
~~~~~
It's been one hell of a thread; I've learned a lot about the dilemma that people find themselves in should they have a child that they want to do best by, best for that child. I've also learned one hell of a lot about the MeFi community.
posted by dancestoblue at 2:27 PM on December 16, 2022
Thailand has immigration laws too. In all of the speculation about the logistics of moving to and living in Thailand, this has somehow been forgotten. Why are we assuming that they even have the right to move to Thailand?
Here is the Thai Embassy's page on how to obtain permanent residency. Notably, they only grant permanent residency to 100 people per country per year, and there is a list of requirements you have to fulfill before applying.
Also, here is the Wikipedia page for LGBTQ+ rights in Thailand. I'm not going to say it's as bad as Texas, but it's not some paradise free of discrimination. The reality of living as an LGBTQ+ person in Thailand versus visiting as a tourist is different.
Seriously, this suggestion reads as more of a western fantasy of what Thailand is like.
posted by Kutsuwamushi at 8:02 AM on December 17, 2022 [5 favorites]
Here is the Thai Embassy's page on how to obtain permanent residency. Notably, they only grant permanent residency to 100 people per country per year, and there is a list of requirements you have to fulfill before applying.
Also, here is the Wikipedia page for LGBTQ+ rights in Thailand. I'm not going to say it's as bad as Texas, but it's not some paradise free of discrimination. The reality of living as an LGBTQ+ person in Thailand versus visiting as a tourist is different.
Seriously, this suggestion reads as more of a western fantasy of what Thailand is like.
posted by Kutsuwamushi at 8:02 AM on December 17, 2022 [5 favorites]
People who are different from the majority, in general (orientation, race, religion, or just being obviously weird), aren't safe anywhere, except for when surrounded by other weird people. It's getting worse and worse these days. But "statistically likely to be safe-R" is probably the best goal to shoot for if you can.
I also concur that immigrating to another country usually isn't an option for a lot of people, especially with some of the issues mentioned above.
posted by jenfullmoon at 10:21 AM on December 17, 2022
I also concur that immigrating to another country usually isn't an option for a lot of people, especially with some of the issues mentioned above.
posted by jenfullmoon at 10:21 AM on December 17, 2022
Because they are really smart, and able to probably find a way to work from anywhere, should everything go left-handed, I kept thinking of a place where they almost certainly would not face any harassment due to parenting a trans child. Thailand.
tbqh, this reads a lot to me like how so many trans leftists somehow think the dprk is some sort of haven for queer rights.
i don't mean it in a harsh way. there's definitely a belief that thailand is a lot more accepting of trans people from people who a) aren't thai, b) aren't asian, c) aren't trans, given that there are two major clinics for transfeminine bottom surgery there and the comparative visibility of kathoeys and trans women (which are not, mind you, necessarily synonymous), with some of that visibility no doubt in part due to western sex tourism.
i would caution though, in the future, before assuming that [x] culture that one might not be a part of is somehow welcoming to [y] minority based solely on things one has read, to pump the brakes, especially if one hasn't looked into what people of [x] culture have said.
like this guy.
after all, thailand does not have marriage equality. thailand does not have widespread protections regarding discrimination against trans people in employment opportunities and health care, among other things. there's still no straightforward process to change your name or legal gender on id documents, which makes so many day-to-day tasks much more difficult. prisons are segregated according to birth gender, which, if you're a transfemme, is... likely a bit risky for your continued well-being.
maybe it would be a lot more welcoming to farangs who are trans. who's to say? but then again, they're not a part of [x] culture, and so the same cultural expectations might land a bit differently.
posted by i used to be someone else at 11:49 AM on December 19, 2022 [2 favorites]
tbqh, this reads a lot to me like how so many trans leftists somehow think the dprk is some sort of haven for queer rights.
i don't mean it in a harsh way. there's definitely a belief that thailand is a lot more accepting of trans people from people who a) aren't thai, b) aren't asian, c) aren't trans, given that there are two major clinics for transfeminine bottom surgery there and the comparative visibility of kathoeys and trans women (which are not, mind you, necessarily synonymous), with some of that visibility no doubt in part due to western sex tourism.
i would caution though, in the future, before assuming that [x] culture that one might not be a part of is somehow welcoming to [y] minority based solely on things one has read, to pump the brakes, especially if one hasn't looked into what people of [x] culture have said.
like this guy.
after all, thailand does not have marriage equality. thailand does not have widespread protections regarding discrimination against trans people in employment opportunities and health care, among other things. there's still no straightforward process to change your name or legal gender on id documents, which makes so many day-to-day tasks much more difficult. prisons are segregated according to birth gender, which, if you're a transfemme, is... likely a bit risky for your continued well-being.
maybe it would be a lot more welcoming to farangs who are trans. who's to say? but then again, they're not a part of [x] culture, and so the same cultural expectations might land a bit differently.
posted by i used to be someone else at 11:49 AM on December 19, 2022 [2 favorites]
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That needs to change.
posted by NoxAeternum at 2:46 AM on December 14, 2022 [87 favorites]