Ticketmaster’s Dark History
January 4, 2023 3:26 PM Subscribe
I hate Ticketmaster so much and this evil machine that allows it to stay alive and well. It's a great link so thank you: I read part of the article but the topic is just so damn depressing, a sign of so much that's wrong in the US and may well never change.
posted by smorgasbord at 4:36 PM on January 4, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by smorgasbord at 4:36 PM on January 4, 2023 [2 favorites]
I remember Pearl Jam going after Ticketmaster back in the 90s, but had no idea that it ended the way it did until now. What a downer-- and that's just the introductory part of the article. Off to read some more.
posted by May Kasahara at 4:52 PM on January 4, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by May Kasahara at 4:52 PM on January 4, 2023 [1 favorite]
This sort of fills in the cracks on why the music industry has just merged into a purveyor of tripe, at least in my opinion. Popular music sounds all the same to me, if I happen to encounter it, because I stopped listening to any music on the radio, except for WFMU and KFJC, but even there there is a sameness creeping in too. Back in late 80’s and early 90’s there were so many great live shows to see here in the Bay Area. But now? Amoeba Records, which is huge, seems to have less and less product, except for the burgeoning display of bobble heads. Music was once an extremely creative field, with new styles, reworking of old styles, new voices, new themes. I have pretty much given up on it now. And the reason for all this seems to be just some incredibly crooked people’s need for more and more profit. Fuck them all.
posted by njohnson23 at 5:12 PM on January 4, 2023 [5 favorites]
posted by njohnson23 at 5:12 PM on January 4, 2023 [5 favorites]
More people should go see more unknowns in independently-owned-and-operated nightclubs. (I would've appreciated that in the '90s!)
posted by not_on_display at 7:21 PM on January 4, 2023 [13 favorites]
posted by not_on_display at 7:21 PM on January 4, 2023 [13 favorites]
Oh hey, Republican insiders acting to disembowel regulations and laws for gross profit. I should not be surprised, but on some level still am. Is there anything not made worse by those people?
posted by Jacen at 8:51 PM on January 4, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by Jacen at 8:51 PM on January 4, 2023 [2 favorites]
Why is Ticketmaster a valuable company? I mean, why couldn't someone else start doing what they do tomorrow and take their business?
Is it venue relationships?
On the consumer side, there doesn't seem to be any network effect. At least, I don't browse Ticketmaster to learn about shows. I learn about them somewhere else and then to buy a ticket I go to a page that could be Ticketmaster but I wouldn't notice if it wasn't.
From the piece I guess it is exclusive relationships with venues, which in a different America (with the same laws we have) could be illegal. This is the advantage they leverage into some of the breathtakingly anti-competitive thuggery described in the piece.
Anyway it's fucking evil and these assholes should be launched into space. God this is so upsetting. A lucrative conspiracy against the public protected by the law.
posted by grobstein at 9:25 PM on January 4, 2023 [5 favorites]
Is it venue relationships?
On the consumer side, there doesn't seem to be any network effect. At least, I don't browse Ticketmaster to learn about shows. I learn about them somewhere else and then to buy a ticket I go to a page that could be Ticketmaster but I wouldn't notice if it wasn't.
From the piece I guess it is exclusive relationships with venues, which in a different America (with the same laws we have) could be illegal. This is the advantage they leverage into some of the breathtakingly anti-competitive thuggery described in the piece.
Anyway it's fucking evil and these assholes should be launched into space. God this is so upsetting. A lucrative conspiracy against the public protected by the law.
posted by grobstein at 9:25 PM on January 4, 2023 [5 favorites]
Straight up mafia shit.
posted by Atom Eyes at 10:36 PM on January 4, 2023 [4 favorites]
posted by Atom Eyes at 10:36 PM on January 4, 2023 [4 favorites]
Is it venue relationships?
Yes, but I think at the end of the day, legislators have families, children and grand-children. And those children and grand children really, really want to go to those very, very popular concerts. Ticketmaster makes SURE they will have good seats.
Every single time ticketmaster shows up, I am reminded of how much I miss Grateful Dead Ticket Sales and their finely-tuned process for mail order.. (Sample GDTS hotline messages)
Example: Joe Deadhead wants to order two tickets to all shows for the Knickerbocker in Albany, New York. The spring dates are for March 27, 28, and 29.
Oh, their example is The Knick in 93'! Right before our wedding, since all of our friends were already in town.
posted by mikelieman at 5:20 AM on January 5, 2023 [2 favorites]
Yes, but I think at the end of the day, legislators have families, children and grand-children. And those children and grand children really, really want to go to those very, very popular concerts. Ticketmaster makes SURE they will have good seats.
Every single time ticketmaster shows up, I am reminded of how much I miss Grateful Dead Ticket Sales and their finely-tuned process for mail order.. (Sample GDTS hotline messages)
Example: Joe Deadhead wants to order two tickets to all shows for the Knickerbocker in Albany, New York. The spring dates are for March 27, 28, and 29.
Oh, their example is The Knick in 93'! Right before our wedding, since all of our friends were already in town.
posted by mikelieman at 5:20 AM on January 5, 2023 [2 favorites]
I literally was fuming at Ticketmaster yesterday. I wanted to give a friend a ticket that I had purchased for a local performance. The app won't allow transfer of tickets for this show, and print ones aren't an option. I contacted customer service, and they quickly explained that the only possible way for me to share a ticket with a friend is to provide her with all of my personal login information for my own account and have her use the app as me. Clearly, customer privacy is very important to them.
posted by hessie at 6:18 AM on January 5, 2023 [4 favorites]
posted by hessie at 6:18 AM on January 5, 2023 [4 favorites]
Oh hey, Republican insiders acting to disembowel regulations and laws for gross profit. I should not be surprised, but on some level still am. Is there anything not made worse by those people?
Jacen
Sadly, it's not just the Republicans. The Clinton era saw a relaxation of antitrust laws (the article quotes an executive with the precursor entity to Live Nation directly attributing the company's rise to this) while the Obama administration allowed the Ticketmaster/Live Nation merger to happen with only a toothless consent decree (which the newly-merged company almost instantly violated, without repercussion).
From the piece I guess it is exclusive relationships with venues, which in a different America (with the same laws we have) could be illegal.
grobstein
The point of the article is that it's illegal in this America. It chronicles decades of criminal and civil cases against TM at every level of government. They've gotten to where they are by constantly breaking the law then using coercion or corruption to beat down every challenger or attempt to bring them to justice.
Will the Swift fiasco change things? Somehow I doubt it:
posted by star gentle uterus at 9:32 AM on January 5, 2023 [8 favorites]
Jacen
Sadly, it's not just the Republicans. The Clinton era saw a relaxation of antitrust laws (the article quotes an executive with the precursor entity to Live Nation directly attributing the company's rise to this) while the Obama administration allowed the Ticketmaster/Live Nation merger to happen with only a toothless consent decree (which the newly-merged company almost instantly violated, without repercussion).
From the piece I guess it is exclusive relationships with venues, which in a different America (with the same laws we have) could be illegal.
grobstein
The point of the article is that it's illegal in this America. It chronicles decades of criminal and civil cases against TM at every level of government. They've gotten to where they are by constantly breaking the law then using coercion or corruption to beat down every challenger or attempt to bring them to justice.
Will the Swift fiasco change things? Somehow I doubt it:
The Swift nightmare, as FTC chair Lina Khan pointed out in December, “ended up converting more Gen Zers into anti-monopolists overnight than anything I could have done.”You're the fucking head of the FTC! Fucking do something!
posted by star gentle uterus at 9:32 AM on January 5, 2023 [8 favorites]
As many people have been saying Twitter, if only Musk had bought Ticketmaster
posted by gottabefunky at 10:28 AM on January 5, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by gottabefunky at 10:28 AM on January 5, 2023 [1 favorite]
Is it venue relationships?
No, it's an absolute monopoly via vertical integration. Live Nation owns everything from ticket sales to ticket resale, to venues, to concessions and merchandising outlets/operations within those venues.
Copying and pasting all of Live Nation's subsidaries in the U.S. and other countries would be a wall of text as long as the original linked article (which is worth a read), but you can find them starting at page 165 et seq. of the latest annual report (02/23/22) here. Direct link to the pdf with that info here.
tl;dr: Pearl Jam was right.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 11:40 AM on January 5, 2023 [7 favorites]
No, it's an absolute monopoly via vertical integration. Live Nation owns everything from ticket sales to ticket resale, to venues, to concessions and merchandising outlets/operations within those venues.
Copying and pasting all of Live Nation's subsidaries in the U.S. and other countries would be a wall of text as long as the original linked article (which is worth a read), but you can find them starting at page 165 et seq. of the latest annual report (02/23/22) here. Direct link to the pdf with that info here.
tl;dr: Pearl Jam was right.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 11:40 AM on January 5, 2023 [7 favorites]
Why is Ticketmaster a valuable company? I mean, why couldn't someone else start doing what they do tomorrow
As the article points out, they bought up no small number of potential competitors.
Live Nation owns everything from ticket sales to ticket resale, to venues, to concessions and merchandising outlets/operations within those venues.
Yuup. Also band management, tour management, and multiple sizes of venues. So, for example, "oh, you're an independent concert promoter (like the Cleveland-area Belkins mentioned in the article) and you wanna do a show in your town with Huge Act X? Welp, they're a Live Nation artist, you gotta use Ticketmaster." Or, " hey you're an agent with a hot young act that can draw 6-800 people? Welp, the only venues over 200 capacity in these 6 cities are Live Nation owned. Good luck surviving a tour if you don't play our venues."
posted by soundguy99 at 5:57 PM on January 5, 2023 [3 favorites]
As the article points out, they bought up no small number of potential competitors.
Live Nation owns everything from ticket sales to ticket resale, to venues, to concessions and merchandising outlets/operations within those venues.
Yuup. Also band management, tour management, and multiple sizes of venues. So, for example, "oh, you're an independent concert promoter (like the Cleveland-area Belkins mentioned in the article) and you wanna do a show in your town with Huge Act X? Welp, they're a Live Nation artist, you gotta use Ticketmaster." Or, " hey you're an agent with a hot young act that can draw 6-800 people? Welp, the only venues over 200 capacity in these 6 cities are Live Nation owned. Good luck surviving a tour if you don't play our venues."
posted by soundguy99 at 5:57 PM on January 5, 2023 [3 favorites]
star gentle uterus: You're the fucking head of the FTC! Fucking do something!
And risk losing out on the cushy job waiting after her time is up at the FTC? No way.
posted by dr_dank at 7:02 PM on January 5, 2023 [1 favorite]
And risk losing out on the cushy job waiting after her time is up at the FTC? No way.
posted by dr_dank at 7:02 PM on January 5, 2023 [1 favorite]
Liberty Media delenda est.
posted by ob1quixote at 4:22 PM on January 6, 2023
posted by ob1quixote at 4:22 PM on January 6, 2023
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