Bike Lanes good? Myths about them
January 27, 2023 10:31 AM Subscribe
The Guardian posts Ten common myths about Bike Lanes, and why they're wrong.
(archive link)
And in Wired, the Battle over Bike Lanes.
(archive link)
Kottke sampled the second one yesterday under Bike Lanes Are Good for Business, But Local Shops Still Hate Them, although he neglected posting the source; had to locate that myself.
As for the first, unmentioned is the misconception hurled at me through a driver's open window as I rode past stopped motor vehicle traffic, something about bicycle riding not being legal outside of bike lanes.
(archive link)
And in Wired, the Battle over Bike Lanes.
(archive link)
Kottke sampled the second one yesterday under Bike Lanes Are Good for Business, But Local Shops Still Hate Them, although he neglected posting the source; had to locate that myself.
As for the first, unmentioned is the misconception hurled at me through a driver's open window as I rode past stopped motor vehicle traffic, something about bicycle riding not being legal outside of bike lanes.
Yes, very. In my extremely car-centric suburb, as in Oakland, they painted the (non-separated) bike lanes green. Like the sharrows, doesn't change anything, nobody uses them.
posted by Rash at 11:15 AM on January 27, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by Rash at 11:15 AM on January 27, 2023 [3 favorites]
Anything not physically separating vehicles from bikes is just a suggestion.
posted by Atreides at 11:42 AM on January 27, 2023 [28 favorites]
posted by Atreides at 11:42 AM on January 27, 2023 [28 favorites]
Yeah, in the "not a myth" side, we have:
posted by straw at 11:49 AM on January 27, 2023 [6 favorites]
- Help motorists think they're entitled to ram bicyclists out of the lane and into the bike lane
- Are rarely swept, so are often hazardous to ride in
- Are often down the gutter seam of the curb with the asphalt, so are hazardous to ride in
posted by straw at 11:49 AM on January 27, 2023 [6 favorites]
I had no idea until I was (once again, out of many attempts) trying to get my driver's license that you are SUPPOSED to drive in a bike lane to turn, and I got flunked on a driving exam automatically for not doing so. I live in a bike-obsessed land and um, there's people in there, hello?! I note I had to go to a less bike-obsessed town to actually get the exam passed.
posted by jenfullmoon at 11:54 AM on January 27, 2023 [8 favorites]
posted by jenfullmoon at 11:54 AM on January 27, 2023 [8 favorites]
Recently in my town they have added a layer of bollards to protect the bike lanes from car traffic. Recently I have also observed that those bollards are JUST far apart enough in places to allow a determined parallel parker to shimmy right through there and just park directly in the bike lane. It's psychopathic and illegal, but goddamned if I'm not impressed by the determination.
(BTW, I learned this while riding a cargo bike with 2 first-graders in the front, and had to get off and WALK THE BIKE AND ITS SMALL HUMAN CONTENTS BACKWARDS for 2/3 of a block so that I could illegally get onto and ride my bike on the sidewalk, the only real choice at that point.)
posted by catesbie at 12:02 PM on January 27, 2023 [14 favorites]
(BTW, I learned this while riding a cargo bike with 2 first-graders in the front, and had to get off and WALK THE BIKE AND ITS SMALL HUMAN CONTENTS BACKWARDS for 2/3 of a block so that I could illegally get onto and ride my bike on the sidewalk, the only real choice at that point.)
posted by catesbie at 12:02 PM on January 27, 2023 [14 favorites]
Anything not physically separating vehicles from bikes is just a suggestion.
This is the unfortunate conclusion I've come to also.
I rode a bike daily for 10 years, including racing and commuting to work. I was happy to ride anywhere in Austin including roads with no bike lanes, roads with sharrows, roads with bike lanes but just separated from the road by a stripe, etc. One year there were many accidents in a row including the death of some friends of mine, the injuries of nearly a dozen of my friends at once, the death of some acquaintances, etc. It put me off riding for a while esp since all of these events happened in my regular riding locations.
I started riding instead almost exclusively on paved paths and off road. At this point I don't think I could bring myself to ride some of the places I used to. There are some *insane* bike lanes in the Austin area. Near my house are several roads with 50mph speed limits with a bike lane that is just a line of paint. Visibility is terrible (this is the other thing that put me off riding bike lanes, I started driving to work again and saw how bad visibility is on the route that I used to ride home)
The bike lanes are full of dirt, rocks, glass, metal, etc. I have a 20lb box at home of nails and screws and stuff that I picked up off the road on my commutes. The streets get regularly swept but all that stuff gets swept right into the bike lanes.
I also regularly see people swerving into the bike lane, etc.
On smaller quieter roads I think they're a good option. On faster roads, definitely not, and on very busy roads, maybe not.
The separated infrastructure gets used 10-100x as much as bike lanes in my experience, riding on separated bike paths was a real eye opener. I'll see 20 or 30 fellow cyclists in an hour when I used to see 1 a week bike commuting.
posted by RustyBrooks at 12:04 PM on January 27, 2023 [16 favorites]
This is the unfortunate conclusion I've come to also.
I rode a bike daily for 10 years, including racing and commuting to work. I was happy to ride anywhere in Austin including roads with no bike lanes, roads with sharrows, roads with bike lanes but just separated from the road by a stripe, etc. One year there were many accidents in a row including the death of some friends of mine, the injuries of nearly a dozen of my friends at once, the death of some acquaintances, etc. It put me off riding for a while esp since all of these events happened in my regular riding locations.
I started riding instead almost exclusively on paved paths and off road. At this point I don't think I could bring myself to ride some of the places I used to. There are some *insane* bike lanes in the Austin area. Near my house are several roads with 50mph speed limits with a bike lane that is just a line of paint. Visibility is terrible (this is the other thing that put me off riding bike lanes, I started driving to work again and saw how bad visibility is on the route that I used to ride home)
The bike lanes are full of dirt, rocks, glass, metal, etc. I have a 20lb box at home of nails and screws and stuff that I picked up off the road on my commutes. The streets get regularly swept but all that stuff gets swept right into the bike lanes.
I also regularly see people swerving into the bike lane, etc.
On smaller quieter roads I think they're a good option. On faster roads, definitely not, and on very busy roads, maybe not.
The separated infrastructure gets used 10-100x as much as bike lanes in my experience, riding on separated bike paths was a real eye opener. I'll see 20 or 30 fellow cyclists in an hour when I used to see 1 a week bike commuting.
posted by RustyBrooks at 12:04 PM on January 27, 2023 [16 favorites]
I had no idea until I was (once again, out of many attempts) trying to get my driver's license that you are SUPPOSED to drive in a bike lane to turn, and I got flunked on a driving exam automatically for not doing so. I live in a bike-obsessed land and um, there's people in there, hello?! I note I had to go to a less bike-obsessed town to actually get the exam passed.
Yeah this one surprised me too when I learned it and most people don't seem to know. It makes sense though, the bike lane is a lane of traffic, you can't turn right across a lane of traffic. The fact that the bike lane is full of cyclists is *why* you need to merge into it to turn, otherwise you're cutting them off.
This point really got driven home when someone turned across the bike lane in front of me, causing me to ram directly into them.
posted by RustyBrooks at 12:06 PM on January 27, 2023 [26 favorites]
Yeah this one surprised me too when I learned it and most people don't seem to know. It makes sense though, the bike lane is a lane of traffic, you can't turn right across a lane of traffic. The fact that the bike lane is full of cyclists is *why* you need to merge into it to turn, otherwise you're cutting them off.
This point really got driven home when someone turned across the bike lane in front of me, causing me to ram directly into them.
posted by RustyBrooks at 12:06 PM on January 27, 2023 [26 favorites]
On my commute there's a section of road where the city has put down paint markers to reduce lane size as a traffic calming measure but the things look like bike lanes to anyone not paying attention. I get honked at occasionally for riding on the road and not in the empty "bike lane" and I have no way of telling the car that it isn't a bike lane which is frustrating.
I live and work in suburbia where the only straight roads are the arterial stroads. I avoid them when I can but there are some sections where I need to go on them. On either side of the roads there is at least 2 metres before the sidewalk so the city could easily put in physically separated bike lanes without having to remove a single lane of traffic but I am not holding my breath for it happening any time soon.
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 12:14 PM on January 27, 2023 [1 favorite]
I live and work in suburbia where the only straight roads are the arterial stroads. I avoid them when I can but there are some sections where I need to go on them. On either side of the roads there is at least 2 metres before the sidewalk so the city could easily put in physically separated bike lanes without having to remove a single lane of traffic but I am not holding my breath for it happening any time soon.
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 12:14 PM on January 27, 2023 [1 favorite]
I'd rather have a bike lane than nothing. 50+ mph traffic in the age of cellphones is offputting though. For fitness I prefer dirt trails or bike paths.
Portland has a nice solution - a grid of streets citywide, and every 3rd street or so has speed bumps that are unobtrusive at bike speeds. Cars naturally prefer the other streets. I found it was easy to get around all over town without feeling menaced by cars.
posted by Ansible at 12:20 PM on January 27, 2023 [9 favorites]
Portland has a nice solution - a grid of streets citywide, and every 3rd street or so has speed bumps that are unobtrusive at bike speeds. Cars naturally prefer the other streets. I found it was easy to get around all over town without feeling menaced by cars.
posted by Ansible at 12:20 PM on January 27, 2023 [9 favorites]
If I had money, I’d make a video that showed a civil engineer painting his kids into the car instead of buckling them, and then painting bike lanes in the road. The voice over would be about how in the event of a collision, paint is all you need to protect yourself and your family.
posted by gauche at 12:28 PM on January 27, 2023 [30 favorites]
posted by gauche at 12:28 PM on January 27, 2023 [30 favorites]
This point really got driven home when someone turned across the bike lane in front of me, causing me to ram directly into them.
I was doored by a passenger not looking, getting out of a car that was parked next to the bike lane, and not in it. I'd have been frustrated to have my lane cut off, but chances are that it might have kept me from some broken bones and a year of physical rehab.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 12:51 PM on January 27, 2023 [2 favorites]
I was doored by a passenger not looking, getting out of a car that was parked next to the bike lane, and not in it. I'd have been frustrated to have my lane cut off, but chances are that it might have kept me from some broken bones and a year of physical rehab.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 12:51 PM on January 27, 2023 [2 favorites]
It makes sense though, the bike lane is a lane of traffic, you can't turn right across a lane of traffic.
Eh, I don't think the answer is that deep - it's a defacto turn lane for cars so you don't block the cars going forward. The sidewalk is also techically a lane of pedestrian traffic, so can you pull onto the sidewalk to turn?
posted by The_Vegetables at 1:08 PM on January 27, 2023 [3 favorites]
Eh, I don't think the answer is that deep - it's a defacto turn lane for cars so you don't block the cars going forward. The sidewalk is also techically a lane of pedestrian traffic, so can you pull onto the sidewalk to turn?
posted by The_Vegetables at 1:08 PM on January 27, 2023 [3 favorites]
The sidewalk is absolutely not a traffic lane.
posted by Pope Guilty at 1:10 PM on January 27, 2023 [11 favorites]
posted by Pope Guilty at 1:10 PM on January 27, 2023 [11 favorites]
My son and I started riding bikes in our town last year. Some roads have nicely demarcated bike lanes. And others have gorgeous, ten foot wide, well paved sidewalks.
Then there are sharrows. We're terrified of being in the middle of those lanes, because enough drivers here are bonkers. We end up in the last foot before the curb or gutter, or on narrow sidewalks.
posted by doctornemo at 1:22 PM on January 27, 2023 [3 favorites]
Then there are sharrows. We're terrified of being in the middle of those lanes, because enough drivers here are bonkers. We end up in the last foot before the curb or gutter, or on narrow sidewalks.
posted by doctornemo at 1:22 PM on January 27, 2023 [3 favorites]
We do not need bike lanes per se. Instead, we should slim down roads to be exactly two lanes, each at most 1.4m (4.6ft) wide, separated by a 1m (40in) concrete barrier, and periodic steel posts outside. As the thinnest cars wind up being 5.2ft wide, this thinner lane width enforced by concrete and steel solves roadway problems completely.
posted by jeffburdges at 1:29 PM on January 27, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by jeffburdges at 1:29 PM on January 27, 2023 [2 favorites]
I'd like to see traffic go back to the old ways of 100+ years ago. Here's what integrated traffic can look like.
posted by aniola at 1:33 PM on January 27, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by aniola at 1:33 PM on January 27, 2023 [1 favorite]
Someone recently suggested abolishing right-on-red for motor vehicles. I think that's a great idea, because so many drivers unwittingly use it as an opportunity for threatening the lives of bike/ped/etc.
Example one: I'm biking in the bike lane and going straight, a driver to my left cuts me off by driving in front of me to turn right.
Example two: I'm at a crosswalk, waiting to cross at a literally-deadly intersection so I can get back on the multi-use path. I'd say about 20% of the time, someone will try to make a right turn into the bike/ped/etc traffic as we try to cross at the crosswalk there.
Example three: I'm turning left into a bike lane. Someone in a car decides to do right on red and block my turn because... I'm not actually sure why? I wear hi-viz and have a safety wing and a really weird bike so it's not like they can't see me making my turn.
posted by aniola at 1:39 PM on January 27, 2023 [6 favorites]
Example one: I'm biking in the bike lane and going straight, a driver to my left cuts me off by driving in front of me to turn right.
Example two: I'm at a crosswalk, waiting to cross at a literally-deadly intersection so I can get back on the multi-use path. I'd say about 20% of the time, someone will try to make a right turn into the bike/ped/etc traffic as we try to cross at the crosswalk there.
Example three: I'm turning left into a bike lane. Someone in a car decides to do right on red and block my turn because... I'm not actually sure why? I wear hi-viz and have a safety wing and a really weird bike so it's not like they can't see me making my turn.
posted by aniola at 1:39 PM on January 27, 2023 [6 favorites]
I've always been relatively comfortable mixing it up with motor traffic. I'm kind of skeptical of the benefits of bike lanes (for reasons mentioned upthread). I never gave much thought to sharrows one way or the other, but learning that they are literally worse than nothing in terms of cyclist safety decides the matter for me.
I also live in Austin, which has installed wands on a lot of bike lanes. This makes them worse IMO, since the city can't sweep them (apparently the city does have a bike-lane sweeper—if only they'd use it), and perversely, by keeping cars out of the bike lane, the wake effect of cars (which tends to sweep the road) works against cyclists in this respect. There are a few roads with massive road "nipples" that seem like a hazard to both cyclists and motorists. And the city put in its first fully segregated bike lane on the aptly named Slaughter Ln, with a curb between motor lanes and bike lane. This is pretty far away from where I live, so I won't find out what riding on it is like anytime soon.
Ultimately, I don't think infrastructure will improve cyclist safety or interest in cycling: it will require a change in attitude on the part of motorists and law enforcement. I'm not holding my breath.
posted by adamrice at 1:46 PM on January 27, 2023 [1 favorite]
I also live in Austin, which has installed wands on a lot of bike lanes. This makes them worse IMO, since the city can't sweep them (apparently the city does have a bike-lane sweeper—if only they'd use it), and perversely, by keeping cars out of the bike lane, the wake effect of cars (which tends to sweep the road) works against cyclists in this respect. There are a few roads with massive road "nipples" that seem like a hazard to both cyclists and motorists. And the city put in its first fully segregated bike lane on the aptly named Slaughter Ln, with a curb between motor lanes and bike lane. This is pretty far away from where I live, so I won't find out what riding on it is like anytime soon.
Ultimately, I don't think infrastructure will improve cyclist safety or interest in cycling: it will require a change in attitude on the part of motorists and law enforcement. I'm not holding my breath.
posted by adamrice at 1:46 PM on January 27, 2023 [1 favorite]
I'm in Toronto and we've very slowly been expanding bike lanes in core areas. The process seems to always go the same, someone in the planning department makes a recommendation for bike lanes in the area. They do a study and say it'll be a good idea. Local small businesses and a good chunk of residents complain because they fear it'll take away business and slow them down. The city does some trial and it turns out that business increases, car traffic is marginally delayed, and bicycle traffic significantly increases. The city makes the bike lanes permanent but the same people that complained about it in the beginning still complain in the face of the data. Then repeat when they want to put in a bike lane somewhere else.
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 1:53 PM on January 27, 2023 [6 favorites]
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 1:53 PM on January 27, 2023 [6 favorites]
The sidewalk is absolutely not a traffic lane.
That's a distinction defined by traffic engineers to the benefit of auto traffic. It may be hard to believe, but not everywhere in the world draws that same distinction.
posted by The_Vegetables at 2:01 PM on January 27, 2023 [3 favorites]
That's a distinction defined by traffic engineers to the benefit of auto traffic. It may be hard to believe, but not everywhere in the world draws that same distinction.
posted by The_Vegetables at 2:01 PM on January 27, 2023 [3 favorites]
The most incredible "but the parking!" objection I've heard was from shop owners on Spring Street in Sydney, who naturally whinged about a new separated bike lane removing a few parking spots.
Except there was a multi-story carpark across the road. With two hours FREE parking. It was right there. The pedestrian exit to the car park was opposite their shops and connected directly to a wide zebra crossing.
There is a bottomless appetite for car space that can never be satisfied, no matter how many parking spaces or how many lanes you build.
posted by other barry at 2:17 PM on January 27, 2023 [18 favorites]
Except there was a multi-story carpark across the road. With two hours FREE parking. It was right there. The pedestrian exit to the car park was opposite their shops and connected directly to a wide zebra crossing.
There is a bottomless appetite for car space that can never be satisfied, no matter how many parking spaces or how many lanes you build.
posted by other barry at 2:17 PM on January 27, 2023 [18 favorites]
Where I live, I was excited when we got new bike lanes and the city freshened up extant ones! Huzzah!
Then reality set in: food app drivers and taxi drivers park in them, the city doesn't plow them when it snows during the winter, and they always have broken glass or other debris in them when the street sweepers come through.
Bike lanes in my town are a joke.
posted by Kitteh at 2:25 PM on January 27, 2023 [4 favorites]
Then reality set in: food app drivers and taxi drivers park in them, the city doesn't plow them when it snows during the winter, and they always have broken glass or other debris in them when the street sweepers come through.
Bike lanes in my town are a joke.
posted by Kitteh at 2:25 PM on January 27, 2023 [4 favorites]
I recently spent some time riding a bike in Tokyo, and it was amazing. There weren't any bike lanes but, more importantly, there's no on-street parking. That's the change I would love to see in my American city, but it would take so much for us to get there that it seems impossible.
posted by The corpse in the library at 2:28 PM on January 27, 2023 [5 favorites]
posted by The corpse in the library at 2:28 PM on January 27, 2023 [5 favorites]
This post is timely. About an hour ago, I was biking down a two-lane residential road that my city designated a "bike route." There are sharrows on the road, green BIKE ROUTE signs, and white signs saying, "BIKES MAY USE FULL LANE."
A driver overtakes me and refuses to move from the next stop sign until I move into the parked car lane next to us, yelling their insistence that that is the bike lane and, therefore, where my bike and I belong. This was despite every visual indication that I was exactly where I was supposed to be - sharrows, signs, and cars parked in the parking lane about 50 feet ahead.
I encounter this type of bull-headed mentality nearly every time I ride.
Paint does nothing to protect bicyclists against drivers, who have become so used to their absolute hegemony that they resent and oppose any and all requests to "share the road." Designated "bike routes" and impotent signage does nothing, either. Drivers are blind to the actual road laws that disadvantage them. Newsom just signed a bill that requires cars to switch lanes when passing bikes whenever possible, and naturally, I still get honked at when taking the lane. Even on designated bike routes. Even when biking past schools and universities, places where bicyclists are often our society's youth.
Painted bike lanes give drivers ample leeway to trespass into them, park in them, and disregard them entirely whenever it's convenient for them. We need truly separated bike lanes (not to mention safe pedestrian infrastructure, too), and we need them YESTERDAY.
Biking in my area is mentally taxing because of all these nonsensical battles I have to face constantly. Yet I do it anyway because I love it. Can you imagine how many more bicyclists we'd have on the streets if we actually created safe, usable infrastructure?
posted by aquamvidam at 2:32 PM on January 27, 2023 [16 favorites]
A driver overtakes me and refuses to move from the next stop sign until I move into the parked car lane next to us, yelling their insistence that that is the bike lane and, therefore, where my bike and I belong. This was despite every visual indication that I was exactly where I was supposed to be - sharrows, signs, and cars parked in the parking lane about 50 feet ahead.
I encounter this type of bull-headed mentality nearly every time I ride.
Paint does nothing to protect bicyclists against drivers, who have become so used to their absolute hegemony that they resent and oppose any and all requests to "share the road." Designated "bike routes" and impotent signage does nothing, either. Drivers are blind to the actual road laws that disadvantage them. Newsom just signed a bill that requires cars to switch lanes when passing bikes whenever possible, and naturally, I still get honked at when taking the lane. Even on designated bike routes. Even when biking past schools and universities, places where bicyclists are often our society's youth.
Painted bike lanes give drivers ample leeway to trespass into them, park in them, and disregard them entirely whenever it's convenient for them. We need truly separated bike lanes (not to mention safe pedestrian infrastructure, too), and we need them YESTERDAY.
Biking in my area is mentally taxing because of all these nonsensical battles I have to face constantly. Yet I do it anyway because I love it. Can you imagine how many more bicyclists we'd have on the streets if we actually created safe, usable infrastructure?
posted by aquamvidam at 2:32 PM on January 27, 2023 [16 favorites]
And the city put in its first fully segregated bike lane on the aptly named Slaughter Ln, with a curb between motor lanes and bike lane. This is pretty far away from where I live, so I won't find out what riding on it is like anytime soon.
I don't think I've ridden the one on Slaughter, but I've ridden the one on Pedernales and it's Very Bad.
Separated by concrete is *mostly* good although I have seen cars turn into it or try to change lanes across the concrete barrier and when that happens it is a real panic for everyone. I have also been riding down it going south, and had a car coming toward me, *in the protected bike lane* going north.
The real problem with it is, they put both directions of bike traffic in one isolated bike lane. If you're going north, then you're on the right side of the road, travelling as normal. If you're going south then you're on the "wrong" side of traffic. When a car is turning right going north onto Pedernales, they will be looking to their left, south, to make sure they can turn. They don't have to worry about south bound car traffic because they don't need to cross it. They do not consider looking right for oncoming bike traffic because they're just not accustomed to the idea of it.
Similarly, if someone is driving southbound, and turning left onto a side street, they are also only concerned about oncoming car traffic and will not look to their left to see if a cyclist is about to cross the road they're turning onto.
I briefly commuted on that road but had to come to a full stop at every intersection to make sure no one was about to kill me. I am/was an extremely experienced rider and also I'd been a motorcyclist for years so I was accustomed to being very defensive against traffic but I'm concerned that less experienced people would see this bike lane, say "this looks safe!" and not understand what things cars are going to get wrong.
The city did it this way, I'm pretty sure, just to save space.
posted by RustyBrooks at 2:41 PM on January 27, 2023 [6 favorites]
I don't think I've ridden the one on Slaughter, but I've ridden the one on Pedernales and it's Very Bad.
Separated by concrete is *mostly* good although I have seen cars turn into it or try to change lanes across the concrete barrier and when that happens it is a real panic for everyone. I have also been riding down it going south, and had a car coming toward me, *in the protected bike lane* going north.
The real problem with it is, they put both directions of bike traffic in one isolated bike lane. If you're going north, then you're on the right side of the road, travelling as normal. If you're going south then you're on the "wrong" side of traffic. When a car is turning right going north onto Pedernales, they will be looking to their left, south, to make sure they can turn. They don't have to worry about south bound car traffic because they don't need to cross it. They do not consider looking right for oncoming bike traffic because they're just not accustomed to the idea of it.
Similarly, if someone is driving southbound, and turning left onto a side street, they are also only concerned about oncoming car traffic and will not look to their left to see if a cyclist is about to cross the road they're turning onto.
I briefly commuted on that road but had to come to a full stop at every intersection to make sure no one was about to kill me. I am/was an extremely experienced rider and also I'd been a motorcyclist for years so I was accustomed to being very defensive against traffic but I'm concerned that less experienced people would see this bike lane, say "this looks safe!" and not understand what things cars are going to get wrong.
The city did it this way, I'm pretty sure, just to save space.
posted by RustyBrooks at 2:41 PM on January 27, 2023 [6 favorites]
We should tax parking spots until hotels and parking wind up priced similarly per square meter, divided by vertical reuse of course. $100 per day parking reduces traffic nicely.
posted by jeffburdges at 3:01 PM on January 27, 2023 [7 favorites]
posted by jeffburdges at 3:01 PM on January 27, 2023 [7 favorites]
How is it that I’m in my 50s, well-read, and this is the first time I’ve encountered the word “sharrows”?
Am I experiencing a glitch in the matrix, or just having a mild aphasia? Or, more likely, it’s probably just that I have never lived in a city that gives enough of a damn about cyclists to have ever encountered these types of road markings.
posted by darkstar at 3:17 PM on January 27, 2023 [3 favorites]
Am I experiencing a glitch in the matrix, or just having a mild aphasia? Or, more likely, it’s probably just that I have never lived in a city that gives enough of a damn about cyclists to have ever encountered these types of road markings.
posted by darkstar at 3:17 PM on January 27, 2023 [3 favorites]
sharrows mean the city doesn't actually give a damn but wants to look like they do. They're a physical manifestation of "thoughts and prayers" because that's all the protection they afford to cyclists.
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 3:21 PM on January 27, 2023 [16 favorites]
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 3:21 PM on January 27, 2023 [16 favorites]
"How is it that I’m in my 50s, well-read, and this is the first time I’ve encountered the word “sharrows”?"
Dude, same. And I'm a bicyclist! In a city! That has pretty good bike infrastructure! For the first 20 or so comments I was sure this was some weird British term like hedgerow that I'd somehow never heard before.
posted by youthenrage at 3:31 PM on January 27, 2023 [4 favorites]
Dude, same. And I'm a bicyclist! In a city! That has pretty good bike infrastructure! For the first 20 or so comments I was sure this was some weird British term like hedgerow that I'd somehow never heard before.
posted by youthenrage at 3:31 PM on January 27, 2023 [4 favorites]
Huh. My city has been building a lot of separated cycle lanes (ie concrete barriers). Mostly they are one way and either side of the road, though there are a few that are both ways on a single side. But anyway, at light-controlled intersections there are separate lights for the bikes, co-ordinated with the lights for the cars, such that turning cars cannot turn across you when there is a green light for bikes.
posted by i_am_joe's_spleen at 3:50 PM on January 27, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by i_am_joe's_spleen at 3:50 PM on January 27, 2023 [3 favorites]
I did my first real urban cycling recently, using the Capital Bikeshare. Checking out a well-maintained e-bike and zooming around the Mount Vernon trail really feels like the future. And checking out a regular bike and gliding down the Capital Crescent is pretty cool too, although that is probably the reason Bethesda's racks are always empty and Georgetown's are always full.
Everything else though -- man. You're constantly doing 10-dimensional calculus to minimize grievous harm while making an effort to abide by what you think is the law. Bike routes are always incomplete, suddenly ending in a detour or construction site or just ending. Signage is unhelpful. Drivers do weird shit like u-turns to park. The only time I could relax was in a separated bikeway with a dedicated bike traffic signal, of which there were not many.
I thought about whether I'd be willing to do this twice a day at rush hour, and I dunno. Maybe if I had an e-bike with big fat tires to handle potholes and good brakes (bikeshare bikes are literally put away wet) fast enough to pretend I'm a moped while keeping up with traffic, which would have to be calmed. Seems safer than playing door roulette in the bike lane next to parked cars. Or maybe a bike that puffs up with spikes tipped with paint balls when a car is nearby.
posted by credulous at 4:22 PM on January 27, 2023 [2 favorites]
Everything else though -- man. You're constantly doing 10-dimensional calculus to minimize grievous harm while making an effort to abide by what you think is the law. Bike routes are always incomplete, suddenly ending in a detour or construction site or just ending. Signage is unhelpful. Drivers do weird shit like u-turns to park. The only time I could relax was in a separated bikeway with a dedicated bike traffic signal, of which there were not many.
I thought about whether I'd be willing to do this twice a day at rush hour, and I dunno. Maybe if I had an e-bike with big fat tires to handle potholes and good brakes (bikeshare bikes are literally put away wet) fast enough to pretend I'm a moped while keeping up with traffic, which would have to be calmed. Seems safer than playing door roulette in the bike lane next to parked cars. Or maybe a bike that puffs up with spikes tipped with paint balls when a car is nearby.
posted by credulous at 4:22 PM on January 27, 2023 [2 favorites]
I thought about whether I'd be willing to do this twice a day at rush hour, and I dunno.
My commute is simultaneously one of the best and worst parts of my day. If nothing else there's the endorphin rush from both the exercise and having cheated death once more.
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 4:52 PM on January 27, 2023 [10 favorites]
My commute is simultaneously one of the best and worst parts of my day. If nothing else there's the endorphin rush from both the exercise and having cheated death once more.
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 4:52 PM on January 27, 2023 [10 favorites]
The municipality I just left thinks sharrows are something you paint in bike lanes to tell cyclists which direction to ride in. (The whole place is a death zone for anyone not in a giant 4x4.) It's hard enough to get good non-car infrastructure in cities run by professionals. In places run by local goobers, it's basically year-round hunting season.
posted by klanawa at 5:03 PM on January 27, 2023
posted by klanawa at 5:03 PM on January 27, 2023
I recently spent some time riding a bike in Tokyo, and it was amazing. There weren't any bike lanes but, more importantly, there's no on-street parking. That's the change I would love to see in my American city, but it would take so much for us to get there that it seems impossible.
The weird thing to me about this is that street parking in any major city, IME, is basically a ticket trap, at least in down town core areas. My experience is also that there is NEVER street parking spots open near where you want them, and you'll waste more time driving around looking for a spot than you would if you just park underground at the closest place. So for me, I personally would welcome the move to 0% on-street parking - it's always a hassle and when you finally get a spot you'll probably end up stuck in a meeting for 15 minutes too long and get a ticket for your trouble. Down with street parking!
posted by some loser at 5:04 PM on January 27, 2023 [1 favorite]
The weird thing to me about this is that street parking in any major city, IME, is basically a ticket trap, at least in down town core areas. My experience is also that there is NEVER street parking spots open near where you want them, and you'll waste more time driving around looking for a spot than you would if you just park underground at the closest place. So for me, I personally would welcome the move to 0% on-street parking - it's always a hassle and when you finally get a spot you'll probably end up stuck in a meeting for 15 minutes too long and get a ticket for your trouble. Down with street parking!
posted by some loser at 5:04 PM on January 27, 2023 [1 favorite]
I was really impressed by the set up I saw in Stockholm, in Sweden:
1. footpath for pedestrians
2. low concrete kerb to separate
3. high speed cycle path
4. low concrete kerb to separate
5. road for cars.
posted by chariot pulled by cassowaries at 7:06 PM on January 27, 2023
1. footpath for pedestrians
2. low concrete kerb to separate
3. high speed cycle path
4. low concrete kerb to separate
5. road for cars.
posted by chariot pulled by cassowaries at 7:06 PM on January 27, 2023
Another Myth: They are just for bikes.
I would like to see more inclusive rules and language so that light personal electric vehicles also feel welcome using the 'bike' infrastructure. Excluding light personal electric vehicles from discussions around and usage of this infrastructure is ableist and fails to reflect trends in uptake that has been apparent for years.
posted by neonamber at 8:14 PM on January 27, 2023 [6 favorites]
I would like to see more inclusive rules and language so that light personal electric vehicles also feel welcome using the 'bike' infrastructure. Excluding light personal electric vehicles from discussions around and usage of this infrastructure is ableist and fails to reflect trends in uptake that has been apparent for years.
posted by neonamber at 8:14 PM on January 27, 2023 [6 favorites]
Yeah, my house has a dedicated cycle route across the road, which goes past a local school. It's 3 metres wide (about 12 feet) and separate from the road by a kerb. I regularly see people of all ages on two-wheeled scooters (with and without power), but also a fair few folks on mobility scooters. The best was happening to catch a schoolgirl in her powered wheelchair giving a mate a ride. They looked like they were having fun.
posted by i_am_joe's_spleen at 8:24 PM on January 27, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by i_am_joe's_spleen at 8:24 PM on January 27, 2023 [3 favorites]
Yeah, "bikes" is kind of just a branding choice. Where I am.
The official policy is called "complete streets", and the engineering and design is more to slow cars down than anything else.
These are really the "please slow down and stop murdering people with cars" devices. But we aren't really in a place where the substance of the engineering can actually be the discussion.
posted by eustatic at 8:39 PM on January 27, 2023 [3 favorites]
The official policy is called "complete streets", and the engineering and design is more to slow cars down than anything else.
These are really the "please slow down and stop murdering people with cars" devices. But we aren't really in a place where the substance of the engineering can actually be the discussion.
posted by eustatic at 8:39 PM on January 27, 2023 [3 favorites]
I was really impressed by the set up I saw in Stockholm, in Sweden
In Stockholm and unsure which road you're referring to (I don't know of any with fully separated curbs) but I do like that most bike paths here are the same as most of Europe - a very wide sidewalk with a separate bike lane running down part of it, well removed from the street itself. It treats bikes as part of pedestrian traffic not part of road traffic. Which makes so much more sense from a safety perspective vs the weird US system of forcing cyclists to mix with cars.
posted by photo guy at 11:24 PM on January 27, 2023 [3 favorites]
In Stockholm and unsure which road you're referring to (I don't know of any with fully separated curbs) but I do like that most bike paths here are the same as most of Europe - a very wide sidewalk with a separate bike lane running down part of it, well removed from the street itself. It treats bikes as part of pedestrian traffic not part of road traffic. Which makes so much more sense from a safety perspective vs the weird US system of forcing cyclists to mix with cars.
posted by photo guy at 11:24 PM on January 27, 2023 [3 favorites]
In Stockholm and unsure which road you're referring to (I don't know of any with fully separated curbs)
It was Skeppsbron and other nearby streets on the waterfront on the island that has Gamla Stan and the Old Palace.
This should be a link to Google Streetview.
posted by chariot pulled by cassowaries at 12:00 AM on January 28, 2023
It was Skeppsbron and other nearby streets on the waterfront on the island that has Gamla Stan and the Old Palace.
This should be a link to Google Streetview.
posted by chariot pulled by cassowaries at 12:00 AM on January 28, 2023
I was really impressed by the set up I saw in Stockholm, in Sweden:
The set up you describe there sounds ideal. I walk everywhere here in London, and find cyclists and e-scooters riding - often quite fast - on the (supposedly) pedestrian-only sidewalk are a regular hazard. A collision's very unlikely to be fatal, sure, but injuries are a real possibility, and even those are something I'd far sooner avoid.
What's really needed is a dedicated and exclusive lane for each of three different categories: motor vehicles, cyclists and pedestrians. That's even more difficult to achieve, of course, but it is the only real answer to keeping everyone safe.
The increasing prevalence of powered cycles and e-scooters complicates matters further. Sooner or later, we're going to have to grapple with where to put them too.
posted by Paul Slade at 12:28 AM on January 28, 2023 [1 favorite]
The set up you describe there sounds ideal. I walk everywhere here in London, and find cyclists and e-scooters riding - often quite fast - on the (supposedly) pedestrian-only sidewalk are a regular hazard. A collision's very unlikely to be fatal, sure, but injuries are a real possibility, and even those are something I'd far sooner avoid.
What's really needed is a dedicated and exclusive lane for each of three different categories: motor vehicles, cyclists and pedestrians. That's even more difficult to achieve, of course, but it is the only real answer to keeping everyone safe.
The increasing prevalence of powered cycles and e-scooters complicates matters further. Sooner or later, we're going to have to grapple with where to put them too.
posted by Paul Slade at 12:28 AM on January 28, 2023 [1 favorite]
I also support a "mid-speed" lane for bikes, scooters, anything going faster than a jog but slower than say 50kph. It just makes sense. Once the good cycle lane is there, I don't see people using the footpath, because the cycle lane is _better_. But a limiter for ebikes is good. I forgot the exact rules here (New Zealand) but there's a max power output imposed by law.
Having said that, the biggest issue I observe here with e-bikes is old folks who are getting back on a bike for the first time in decades, and they have a new ebike and outrun their capabilities to respond and balance and brake and hurt *themselves*.
What really annoys me as a cyclist AND as a pedestrian is "shared paths" that are narrow where bikes can't go normal speed without being a hazard to people on foot and vice versa, there isn't room to pass safely, and the two transport modes are competing for space. The arsehole contingent of people on bikes will pass dangerously, and pedestrians will be startled and move counter-intuitively, and it's all likely to end badly. This circumstance basically exists because the local authority isn't prepared to take space away from cars and just says Hey you others can share and sort yourselves out. So we fight over the scraps.
posted by i_am_joe's_spleen at 1:31 AM on January 28, 2023 [2 favorites]
Having said that, the biggest issue I observe here with e-bikes is old folks who are getting back on a bike for the first time in decades, and they have a new ebike and outrun their capabilities to respond and balance and brake and hurt *themselves*.
What really annoys me as a cyclist AND as a pedestrian is "shared paths" that are narrow where bikes can't go normal speed without being a hazard to people on foot and vice versa, there isn't room to pass safely, and the two transport modes are competing for space. The arsehole contingent of people on bikes will pass dangerously, and pedestrians will be startled and move counter-intuitively, and it's all likely to end badly. This circumstance basically exists because the local authority isn't prepared to take space away from cars and just says Hey you others can share and sort yourselves out. So we fight over the scraps.
posted by i_am_joe's_spleen at 1:31 AM on January 28, 2023 [2 favorites]
Here is a relevant video of excellent youtuber Not Just Bikes: The Bike Lanes You Can't See - Ontvlechten.
posted by Pendragon at 2:03 AM on January 28, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by Pendragon at 2:03 AM on January 28, 2023 [1 favorite]
What really annoys me as a cyclist AND as a pedestrian is "shared paths" that are narrow where bikes can't go normal speed without being a hazard to people on foot and vice versa, there isn't room to pass safely, and the two transport modes are competing for space.
That's a perfect description of the canal towpath near where I live. It used to be a pleasant route for my day-dreaming Sunday walks, but all the pleasure's gone from using it now.
posted by Paul Slade at 2:50 AM on January 28, 2023
That's a perfect description of the canal towpath near where I live. It used to be a pleasant route for my day-dreaming Sunday walks, but all the pleasure's gone from using it now.
posted by Paul Slade at 2:50 AM on January 28, 2023
One of the outer London boroughs not far from where I live has narrowed the main traffic streets to install cycle lanes (example: before after) . But every single time I've been in the area (whether by car or on a bus), cyclists have persisted in cycling right in the middle of the road, ignoring the cycle lanes. I have an acquaintance who does this and I asked him why. "Because I can" was the answer.
posted by essexjan at 3:26 AM on January 28, 2023
posted by essexjan at 3:26 AM on January 28, 2023
Thanks chariot pulled by cassowaries, somehow never noticed that. I have been on that street numerous times but admittedly never biked that far.
posted by photo guy at 3:40 AM on January 28, 2023
posted by photo guy at 3:40 AM on January 28, 2023
But anyway, at light-controlled intersections there are separate lights for the bikes, co-ordinated with the lights for the cars, such that turning cars cannot turn across you when there is a green light for bikes.
I have one of these nearby and the problem is that the cars certainly can and often do ignore the signals. I see it nearly every day. Drivers find it confusing. Even knowing it’s there I find it confusing and have caught myself about to do a “right on red.” There must be some public data on accidents there but it seems very unsafe to me. As a cyclist, I never trust my green light there in the least.
posted by sjswitzer at 4:47 AM on January 28, 2023 [2 favorites]
I have one of these nearby and the problem is that the cars certainly can and often do ignore the signals. I see it nearly every day. Drivers find it confusing. Even knowing it’s there I find it confusing and have caught myself about to do a “right on red.” There must be some public data on accidents there but it seems very unsafe to me. As a cyclist, I never trust my green light there in the least.
posted by sjswitzer at 4:47 AM on January 28, 2023 [2 favorites]
Re: drivers turning on red,
Here in Australia we drive on the left, and many intersections say "driver can turn left on red", which means that pedestrians, including wheelchair users, who are trying to cross with a green pedestrian light (in the INCREDIBLY miserly time alloted to do so)
are often faced with cars trying to bully their way through the pedestrians, wheelchair users, people with prams EVEN THO THE WALK SIGNAL IS GREEN.
I've had cars honk at me and yell threats at me for "crossing too slowly" *even when I had a green pedestrian light* because they wanted to turn left on red.
I've also had cars threaten to run me over, or narrowly miss running me over, when I was crossing with a green walk signal and they were turning left on red.
Technically the law is that cars can only turn left on red if no pedestrians are crossing at the time, but drivers all ignore that law.
posted by chariot pulled by cassowaries at 6:03 AM on January 28, 2023 [6 favorites]
Here in Australia we drive on the left, and many intersections say "driver can turn left on red", which means that pedestrians, including wheelchair users, who are trying to cross with a green pedestrian light (in the INCREDIBLY miserly time alloted to do so)
are often faced with cars trying to bully their way through the pedestrians, wheelchair users, people with prams EVEN THO THE WALK SIGNAL IS GREEN.
I've had cars honk at me and yell threats at me for "crossing too slowly" *even when I had a green pedestrian light* because they wanted to turn left on red.
I've also had cars threaten to run me over, or narrowly miss running me over, when I was crossing with a green walk signal and they were turning left on red.
Technically the law is that cars can only turn left on red if no pedestrians are crossing at the time, but drivers all ignore that law.
posted by chariot pulled by cassowaries at 6:03 AM on January 28, 2023 [6 favorites]
Yes, I was once screamed at and flipped off by someone who wanted to turn right on red because I… started crossing at a green pedestrian signal? It was one of those signals that is only green for a second before immediately changing into a red flashing hand, so you can’t just let people go in front of you.
I read something recently that a lot of drivers don’t realize they need to yield to pedestrians when making a right on red, and that also a lot of drivers think a flashing red hand means pedestrians aren’t allowed to be in the intersection (not “you need to finish crossing”). So that level of arrogance/ignorance explains a lot about this incident, but is also horrifying because lives literally depend on pedestrians being able to make it safely across crosswalks. If it’s so confusing for drivers that they routinely make unsafe decisions or harass people who are doing nothing wrong, I think right on red should just be banned across the board.
posted by en forme de poire at 7:08 AM on January 28, 2023 [7 favorites]
I read something recently that a lot of drivers don’t realize they need to yield to pedestrians when making a right on red, and that also a lot of drivers think a flashing red hand means pedestrians aren’t allowed to be in the intersection (not “you need to finish crossing”). So that level of arrogance/ignorance explains a lot about this incident, but is also horrifying because lives literally depend on pedestrians being able to make it safely across crosswalks. If it’s so confusing for drivers that they routinely make unsafe decisions or harass people who are doing nothing wrong, I think right on red should just be banned across the board.
posted by en forme de poire at 7:08 AM on January 28, 2023 [7 favorites]
en forme de poire, that would go squarely against our traffic engineering principles of
1) Have car traffic flow as quickly as possible
posted by tigrrrlily at 7:34 AM on January 28, 2023 [2 favorites]
1) Have car traffic flow as quickly as possible
posted by tigrrrlily at 7:34 AM on January 28, 2023 [2 favorites]
en forme de poire, I've had drivers try to drive through me so that they could turn left on red when
a) the pedestrian signal was a solid green, no flashing; AND
b) I was halfway across the road before they started turning left; AND
c) I was very visible in broad daylight in bright colours and a 150 kilogram (330 pounds) metal power wheelchair.
Quite apart from the fact that pedestrians deserve safety, what did they think would happen to their car if it hit 150 kilograms of metal wheelchair? That's 150 kilograms of wheelchair not including the weight of my body.
posted by chariot pulled by cassowaries at 8:20 AM on January 28, 2023 [3 favorites]
a) the pedestrian signal was a solid green, no flashing; AND
b) I was halfway across the road before they started turning left; AND
c) I was very visible in broad daylight in bright colours and a 150 kilogram (330 pounds) metal power wheelchair.
Quite apart from the fact that pedestrians deserve safety, what did they think would happen to their car if it hit 150 kilograms of metal wheelchair? That's 150 kilograms of wheelchair not including the weight of my body.
posted by chariot pulled by cassowaries at 8:20 AM on January 28, 2023 [3 favorites]
Much of the protected bike lane infrastructure installed in DC in the past decade has made many streets objectively worse for everyone. I’m increasingly in favor of speed bumps on every single fucking street in the city, and literally banning private vehicles that weigh over say 4000 lbs from entering the district.
posted by aspersioncast at 8:41 AM on January 28, 2023
posted by aspersioncast at 8:41 AM on January 28, 2023
I also live in Austin, which has installed wands on a lot of bike lanes…
AKA "car ticklers." Seattle's had a love affair with them for several years now, along with sharrows. I've been commuting by bike for over 12 years and have a love/hate relationship with them. Where the traffic is smooth they're good enough at reminding people there's a bike lane beside them, but thats's all they are—a gentle reminder—and where there are trucks or lots of cars parking or turning, they rapidly get turned into torn plastic stumps.
Seattle really got into putting down sharrows ten or fifteen years ago. It's slowly sunk in over the years that they don't do jack-shit to help cyclists, and that seems to have been when they began pivoting to car ticklers. Now—finally—they're seriously looking into concrete dividers, though given their past history of doing the minimum first, they'll almost certainly select lanes separated only by a line of concrete curb before they eventually get to where it's obviously headed in our future, fully separated custom built cycling infrastructure. We all know this is what we need, what will eventually happen, but first we have to waste time, money, and lives on all the half-assed solutions in between, because reasons.
Last week I had a guy in a suburban assault vehicle blithely shove all the way through the parking lane, through the car tickler beside it, and park himself halfway into the bike lane on Pike in Capitol Hill, not thirty feet in front of me as I headed up the hill, because he couldn't be bothered to remember where his vehicle ended. Pissed me off to no end, but the deer-in-the-headlights look he got when the big 6'3" cyclist started whaling on the side of his SUV with his fist shouting 'The FUCK are you doing?"as he squeezed by did ameliorate it a bit.
Probably shouldn't have done it—it was wildly out of character—but it was satisfying.
posted by los pantalones del muerte at 8:47 AM on January 28, 2023 [5 favorites]
AKA "car ticklers." Seattle's had a love affair with them for several years now, along with sharrows. I've been commuting by bike for over 12 years and have a love/hate relationship with them. Where the traffic is smooth they're good enough at reminding people there's a bike lane beside them, but thats's all they are—a gentle reminder—and where there are trucks or lots of cars parking or turning, they rapidly get turned into torn plastic stumps.
Seattle really got into putting down sharrows ten or fifteen years ago. It's slowly sunk in over the years that they don't do jack-shit to help cyclists, and that seems to have been when they began pivoting to car ticklers. Now—finally—they're seriously looking into concrete dividers, though given their past history of doing the minimum first, they'll almost certainly select lanes separated only by a line of concrete curb before they eventually get to where it's obviously headed in our future, fully separated custom built cycling infrastructure. We all know this is what we need, what will eventually happen, but first we have to waste time, money, and lives on all the half-assed solutions in between, because reasons.
Last week I had a guy in a suburban assault vehicle blithely shove all the way through the parking lane, through the car tickler beside it, and park himself halfway into the bike lane on Pike in Capitol Hill, not thirty feet in front of me as I headed up the hill, because he couldn't be bothered to remember where his vehicle ended. Pissed me off to no end, but the deer-in-the-headlights look he got when the big 6'3" cyclist started whaling on the side of his SUV with his fist shouting 'The FUCK are you doing?"as he squeezed by did ameliorate it a bit.
Probably shouldn't have done it—it was wildly out of character—but it was satisfying.
posted by los pantalones del muerte at 8:47 AM on January 28, 2023 [5 favorites]
Also you know what, as a daily analog cyclist my opinion is that if your e-bike goes faster than about 20mph you can damn well ride it in the fuckin street with the motorcycles.
And I actually like bike lanes a lot, just not these half-assed “protected” ones that intermix with parking.
posted by aspersioncast at 8:47 AM on January 28, 2023 [3 favorites]
And I actually like bike lanes a lot, just not these half-assed “protected” ones that intermix with parking.
posted by aspersioncast at 8:47 AM on January 28, 2023 [3 favorites]
essexjan, this is a common complaint from drivers who don't ride bicycles. Once you get on a bike, you'll see that some bike lanes can easily become unusable, forcing bicyclists back onto the road.
The bike lanes you linked to are at grade with the road, so cars can easily trespass into or park in them. In my area, similar bike lanes get cluttered with drivers and delivery vans. This forces a bicyclist to veer out into traffic to avoid them, which is super, super dangerous for the bicyclist. If it happens often, it becomes safer for the bicyclist to ride in the road lane, where they are visible and predictable.
Another issue is that, if the bike lane isn't maintained, debris and damage make bicycling unsafe, and it's again safer to just bike in the road.
I don't know the full extent of the bike lane you linked, but I can say that if the bike lane doesn't connect you with the road you need to get to, you might be forced into the road lane in order to access safe crossings. If the bike lane isn't going where you need to go, you'll have to take the road eventually.
As an aside, similar logic is often expressed by car drivers who can't understand why bicyclists run stop signs and red lights. There's good reason for it, and it's often safer for bicyclists (a few states in the US have even legalized it because they recognize that bicycles and cars are fundamentally different and should be subject to different rules), but when drivers don't bike, they will refuse to understand because they just want to be mad at bicyclists for the 30 seconds of inconvenience that bicyclists cause drivers.
The Youtube channel Shifter has a lot of videos on the topic, like:
Why cyclists avoid pathways
How disconnected bicycle routes are ruining the bike-friendliness of our cities
How a proper bike lane can make your life better, and break your heart
My city hates me because I ride a bike. Here's why.
Why Cyclists Should be permitted to roll through stop signs | The Idaho Stop Law
How little compromises can ruin your bike commute
If words and videos aren't enough, consider bicycling on these bike lanes to understand why bicyclists might not always use them. Try using them, not for a joy ride, but as transportation, to get from a specific place to another place. Experience them for yourself. It may be eye-opening.
posted by aquamvidam at 8:48 AM on January 28, 2023 [7 favorites]
The bike lanes you linked to are at grade with the road, so cars can easily trespass into or park in them. In my area, similar bike lanes get cluttered with drivers and delivery vans. This forces a bicyclist to veer out into traffic to avoid them, which is super, super dangerous for the bicyclist. If it happens often, it becomes safer for the bicyclist to ride in the road lane, where they are visible and predictable.
Another issue is that, if the bike lane isn't maintained, debris and damage make bicycling unsafe, and it's again safer to just bike in the road.
I don't know the full extent of the bike lane you linked, but I can say that if the bike lane doesn't connect you with the road you need to get to, you might be forced into the road lane in order to access safe crossings. If the bike lane isn't going where you need to go, you'll have to take the road eventually.
As an aside, similar logic is often expressed by car drivers who can't understand why bicyclists run stop signs and red lights. There's good reason for it, and it's often safer for bicyclists (a few states in the US have even legalized it because they recognize that bicycles and cars are fundamentally different and should be subject to different rules), but when drivers don't bike, they will refuse to understand because they just want to be mad at bicyclists for the 30 seconds of inconvenience that bicyclists cause drivers.
The Youtube channel Shifter has a lot of videos on the topic, like:
Why cyclists avoid pathways
How disconnected bicycle routes are ruining the bike-friendliness of our cities
How a proper bike lane can make your life better, and break your heart
My city hates me because I ride a bike. Here's why.
Why Cyclists Should be permitted to roll through stop signs | The Idaho Stop Law
How little compromises can ruin your bike commute
If words and videos aren't enough, consider bicycling on these bike lanes to understand why bicyclists might not always use them. Try using them, not for a joy ride, but as transportation, to get from a specific place to another place. Experience them for yourself. It may be eye-opening.
posted by aquamvidam at 8:48 AM on January 28, 2023 [7 favorites]
my opinion is that if your e-bike goes faster than about 20mph you can damn well ride it in the fuckin street with the motorcycles.
Hoo-boy do I agree. Sorry if this is stepping on the toes of the handicapped (who should be exempted, naturally) but I don't want ANY motor vehicles on the bikepath -- that means YOU, eBikers. It's nice that your motor is quieter, but you still go too fast, so ride it in the street. If motors are tolerated we'll eventually wind up like India, with full-on motorcycles driving on the sidewalks and pedestrian overpasses, honking at the walkers to get out of the way.
Once you get on a bike, you'll see that some bike lanes can easily become unusable, forcing bicyclists back onto the road.
Or in my case, avoiding the street and the green bike lane completely (where a hit-and-run murdered a cyclist one morning, and was never apprehended) and using the much safer sidewalk, which, in my spread-out, car-centric suburb, hardly gets any foot-traffic (who I give a wide berth, when encountered).
posted by Rash at 10:48 AM on January 28, 2023
Hoo-boy do I agree. Sorry if this is stepping on the toes of the handicapped (who should be exempted, naturally) but I don't want ANY motor vehicles on the bikepath -- that means YOU, eBikers. It's nice that your motor is quieter, but you still go too fast, so ride it in the street. If motors are tolerated we'll eventually wind up like India, with full-on motorcycles driving on the sidewalks and pedestrian overpasses, honking at the walkers to get out of the way.
Once you get on a bike, you'll see that some bike lanes can easily become unusable, forcing bicyclists back onto the road.
Or in my case, avoiding the street and the green bike lane completely (where a hit-and-run murdered a cyclist one morning, and was never apprehended) and using the much safer sidewalk, which, in my spread-out, car-centric suburb, hardly gets any foot-traffic (who I give a wide berth, when encountered).
posted by Rash at 10:48 AM on January 28, 2023
Hey, let's design cities for people, and not cars. If you are getting around by public transit, by foot, by (e)bike, by scooter, and/or by mobility device...we are all on the same team. Heck, you are on the team whenever you as a human being ever get out of your car. The use of non-car centric transportation should not need to be a zero sum game. We should be able to navigate our cities in safe, practical modalities separated not necessarily by which class of non-automobile vehicle we are riding, but by what is reasonable and safe contextually.
posted by oceano at 11:42 AM on January 28, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by oceano at 11:42 AM on January 28, 2023 [2 favorites]
Two things I recently saw and heard at the southbound #49 stop* by 1101 E Prospect were two bike riders talking on their cellphones while tooling south down 10th Ave E. Which has no bike lane at that point.
The first was a young woman talking with a friend on a Zoom or Duo call over her S20something Samsung mounted on an high handlebar mirror pole. Nothing like talking face to face with your friends while you're tooling down a busy street on your bicycle. Nothing scary going on there.
The second was a man with earbuds having a similar conversation with someone unseen while his two year old dozed in a baby seat slung over his bike's rear wheel. Well, the kid did have on a helmet -- but what baby's mother could knowingly allow her wee bairn to ride on the back of daddy's bike in traffic on an a busy street in a big city with not even a bike lane? Talk about beggaring the imagination.
Also, what Rash said above. What is it about Ebikes and Uber scooters anyway (Oh, and don't get me going about those being ridden on busy sidewalks or streets!) that their riders feel compelled leave them standing in the middle of the sidewalk where they dismount and if at all possible on the intersection corner of two streets so as to block two crosswalks at the same time?
*That bus stop, by the way, once had a roofed enclosure with a seat -- you can see where it stood from its still embedded posts cut flush to the sidewalk. Such bus seat enclosures are now disappearing all over Capitol Hill so as to prevent their use as DIY homeless shelters when it rains. What a world, eh?
posted by y2karl at 11:58 AM on January 28, 2023 [1 favorite]
The first was a young woman talking with a friend on a Zoom or Duo call over her S20something Samsung mounted on an high handlebar mirror pole. Nothing like talking face to face with your friends while you're tooling down a busy street on your bicycle. Nothing scary going on there.
The second was a man with earbuds having a similar conversation with someone unseen while his two year old dozed in a baby seat slung over his bike's rear wheel. Well, the kid did have on a helmet -- but what baby's mother could knowingly allow her wee bairn to ride on the back of daddy's bike in traffic on an a busy street in a big city with not even a bike lane? Talk about beggaring the imagination.
Also, what Rash said above. What is it about Ebikes and Uber scooters anyway (Oh, and don't get me going about those being ridden on busy sidewalks or streets!) that their riders feel compelled leave them standing in the middle of the sidewalk where they dismount and if at all possible on the intersection corner of two streets so as to block two crosswalks at the same time?
*That bus stop, by the way, once had a roofed enclosure with a seat -- you can see where it stood from its still embedded posts cut flush to the sidewalk. Such bus seat enclosures are now disappearing all over Capitol Hill so as to prevent their use as DIY homeless shelters when it rains. What a world, eh?
posted by y2karl at 11:58 AM on January 28, 2023 [1 favorite]
> what baby's mother could knowingly allow her wee bairn to ride on the back of daddy's bike in traffic on an a busy street in a big city with not even a bike lane?
wait whut why is it the mother at fault here? (Not that I agree that children shouldn't be ridden around on the backs of bikes.)
posted by The corpse in the library at 12:34 PM on January 28, 2023 [5 favorites]
wait whut why is it the mother at fault here? (Not that I agree that children shouldn't be ridden around on the backs of bikes.)
posted by The corpse in the library at 12:34 PM on January 28, 2023 [5 favorites]
I was in Amsterdam recently and their bicycle infrastructure was really great. As a pedestrian there, I have to say that it definitely takes some getting used to since the paths are well marked but directly adjacent to sidewalks. As a dumb tourist it took me a while to get the proper awareness of this. It's especially bad at crosswalks and when boarding and exiting a bus where you're likely to step right into bike traffic. But kudos to them; they made it work.
It seemed as if motor scooters were welcome in the bike paths and that seemed kinda bad to me. They generally went a lot faster and I saw genuinely reckless behavior. It's hard to make clear lines between categories but a clear line seems to be between vehicles that actually have pedals and ones that are simply motorized.
posted by sjswitzer at 12:35 PM on January 28, 2023 [1 favorite]
It seemed as if motor scooters were welcome in the bike paths and that seemed kinda bad to me. They generally went a lot faster and I saw genuinely reckless behavior. It's hard to make clear lines between categories but a clear line seems to be between vehicles that actually have pedals and ones that are simply motorized.
posted by sjswitzer at 12:35 PM on January 28, 2023 [1 favorite]
One thing I noticed in Amsterdam that seems relevant to this discussion was how the traffic lights worked. Contra the typical American layout where the lights are across the street and high up on poles, the lights were on your side of the street and much lower. This has some great consequences. If you're too far forward (i.e. into the crosswalk) you can no longer see your light. Great, don't do that! And secondly instead of looking up into the sky your sightline includes the pedestrians and bicycles that you need to be aware of. It's a much better system and, incidentally, cheaper since everything is smaller.
posted by sjswitzer at 12:48 PM on January 28, 2023 [10 favorites]
posted by sjswitzer at 12:48 PM on January 28, 2023 [10 favorites]
"I have one of these nearby and the problem is that the cars certainly can and often do ignore the signals. I see it nearly every day. Drivers find it confusing. Even knowing it’s there I find it confusing and have caught myself about to do a “right on red.” There must be some public data on accidents there but it seems very unsafe to me."
It works where I live. There is no equivalent to US right on red rule, so that could help. New Zealand uses left and right arrow traffic lights so what drivers are seeing is a red arrow light up... a clear signal not to go.
posted by i_am_joe's_spleen at 1:26 PM on January 28, 2023
It works where I live. There is no equivalent to US right on red rule, so that could help. New Zealand uses left and right arrow traffic lights so what drivers are seeing is a red arrow light up... a clear signal not to go.
posted by i_am_joe's_spleen at 1:26 PM on January 28, 2023
Yeah, the right/left-on-red thing is really terrible. It's bad for pedestrians for obvious reasons and also bad for sharing the road with bicycles. As a dumb American, it's recently occurred to me that I might even have made prohibited right-on-red turns in other countries. I've only driven in a few but it never occurred to me to ask whether this norm would apply there. I certainly will check in the future. Right-on-red prioritizes driver convenience over pedestrians and bicycles in a way that puts the latter at risk of life.
posted by sjswitzer at 2:23 PM on January 28, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by sjswitzer at 2:23 PM on January 28, 2023 [1 favorite]
AND, the main reason I've seen for people honking in this very liberal American city is when you've failed to turn right on red. It might be (no, it's ALWAYS) that there's a pedestrian in the sidewalk! But nevermind, off go the damned horns.
posted by sjswitzer at 2:30 PM on January 28, 2023 [4 favorites]
posted by sjswitzer at 2:30 PM on January 28, 2023 [4 favorites]
wait whut why is it the mother at fault here?
Not my intention to imply that at all. I was reflecting on personal experience when I wrote that -- a bicycling enthusiast friend with a young child once broached the baby bicycle seat concept to his beloved to no uncertain kibosh. It was more of a mother puma video response on her part as in Not With My Kid. Which made total sense to me at the time.That was what I was thinking of. I just assumed what I saw was that guy's own bright idea. I can see the appeal but people can drive so crazy here. It was so scary to see that.
posted by y2karl at 3:46 PM on January 28, 2023
Not my intention to imply that at all. I was reflecting on personal experience when I wrote that -- a bicycling enthusiast friend with a young child once broached the baby bicycle seat concept to his beloved to no uncertain kibosh. It was more of a mother puma video response on her part as in Not With My Kid. Which made total sense to me at the time.That was what I was thinking of. I just assumed what I saw was that guy's own bright idea. I can see the appeal but people can drive so crazy here. It was so scary to see that.
posted by y2karl at 3:46 PM on January 28, 2023
Cambridge, UK and Groningen, NL are probably the most cycle friendly cities in their respective countries. They certainly have lots of cycle lanes and that is a part of it, but I think there is another important element: the councils have deliberately and intentionally fucked up the traffic flow.
You cannot get across the centre of town in a car. You can get in, but you have to leave in the same direction because bollards block all the through routes. So, cycling is more popular because it's actually a lot faster to get where you want to go, and the car traffic in the town centre is hugely reduced because the only reason you would go in is to park and shop.
I wonder, in US cities, if we could take the Barcelona approach - basically, shutting off every second road in a grid system and making it pedestrian with a cycle path (plus, you know, outside dining, in-street parks and play areas...). Yes, every second junction becomes a crossing of some sort, but it's really no worse than the proliferation of traffic lights we end up with when they're full streets. (You could get a similar effect by blocking off every fourth junction, if this is too radical: you can drive down the street to get to your apartment block's car park, for instance, but you'd have to come back out the way you came.)
posted by How much is that froggie in the window at 6:50 PM on January 28, 2023
You cannot get across the centre of town in a car. You can get in, but you have to leave in the same direction because bollards block all the through routes. So, cycling is more popular because it's actually a lot faster to get where you want to go, and the car traffic in the town centre is hugely reduced because the only reason you would go in is to park and shop.
I wonder, in US cities, if we could take the Barcelona approach - basically, shutting off every second road in a grid system and making it pedestrian with a cycle path (plus, you know, outside dining, in-street parks and play areas...). Yes, every second junction becomes a crossing of some sort, but it's really no worse than the proliferation of traffic lights we end up with when they're full streets. (You could get a similar effect by blocking off every fourth junction, if this is too radical: you can drive down the street to get to your apartment block's car park, for instance, but you'd have to come back out the way you came.)
posted by How much is that froggie in the window at 6:50 PM on January 28, 2023
Just did a grocery run. A shot of mixed car and bike traffic lights. I have right of way and am about to enter the intersection. If you squint you can see there is a raised barrier between cycle lane and cars. Further down the street there is car parking on the outside of the cycle lane, giving even more protection.
posted by i_am_joe's_spleen at 7:51 PM on January 28, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by i_am_joe's_spleen at 7:51 PM on January 28, 2023 [1 favorite]
The increasing prevalence of powered cycles and e-scooters complicates matters further. Sooner or later, we're going to have to grapple with where to put them too.
Electric bikes are basically just old school mopeds, but electric. In Northern Europe, we largely decided to put things like Puchs on the cycle path below a certain speed (30kph/~20mph in my country) and on the road like a small motorbike above that. I don't see why electric bikes should be any different. Let the pedal assist ones go on the bike path, as long as they're speed restricted.
Basically, it might on first blush look like a new problem, but it really isn't.
posted by Dysk at 2:48 AM on January 29, 2023 [3 favorites]
Electric bikes are basically just old school mopeds, but electric. In Northern Europe, we largely decided to put things like Puchs on the cycle path below a certain speed (30kph/~20mph in my country) and on the road like a small motorbike above that. I don't see why electric bikes should be any different. Let the pedal assist ones go on the bike path, as long as they're speed restricted.
Basically, it might on first blush look like a new problem, but it really isn't.
posted by Dysk at 2:48 AM on January 29, 2023 [3 favorites]
The issue of motorists (ab)using cycle paths as turn lanes, or turning across them to kill human beings, is not a new problem, and has some very solid known solutions.
posted by rum-soaked space hobo at 4:35 AM on January 29, 2023
posted by rum-soaked space hobo at 4:35 AM on January 29, 2023
A few years ago, before professionally made cargo bike started to appear, I'd sometimes see hipster dads with their young children riding in a home-made trailer attached to the bike. Some of these trailers looked so rickety that I'd have hesitated to trust my groceries to them, let alone my first born.
posted by Paul Slade at 6:17 AM on January 29, 2023
posted by Paul Slade at 6:17 AM on January 29, 2023
Highly recommend the Not Just Bikes channel on YouTube for more in-depth comparisons of car-centric and non-car-centric places (including Amsterdam). There are a ton of design decisions that differentiate them, including among others: pedestrians and bikes get to take the shortest paths while cars are routed less directly; raised crossings to prioritize pedestrian and bike traffic; and probably most importantly, clear differentiation of “roads” (meant as thoroughfares for cars to get from point A to point B) and “streets” (where people live, work, shop, etc.). Bolting a bike lane onto a strip-mall “stroad” where cars are going 40 yet also constantly turning in and out of businesses is never going to be a huge success, because all but the most dedicated of bikers will rightly conclude that it’s insanely dangerous.
A few specific posts relevant to the discussion here: crossing the street, streets vs. roads vs. “stroads”, a case study of rapidly improving bike infrastructure, bike infrastructure for non-“cyclists”.
posted by en forme de poire at 8:24 AM on January 29, 2023 [2 favorites]
A few specific posts relevant to the discussion here: crossing the street, streets vs. roads vs. “stroads”, a case study of rapidly improving bike infrastructure, bike infrastructure for non-“cyclists”.
posted by en forme de poire at 8:24 AM on January 29, 2023 [2 favorites]
Highly recommend the Not Just Bikes channel on YouTube for more in-depth comparisons of car-centric and non-car-centric places (including Amsterdam).
Yeah.. That's why I linked a video to Not Just Bikes earlier... But it seems nobody watched it. Really great channel if you are interested in a better city infrastructure.
posted by Pendragon at 9:02 AM on January 29, 2023 [1 favorite]
Yeah.. That's why I linked a video to Not Just Bikes earlier... But it seems nobody watched it. Really great channel if you are interested in a better city infrastructure.
posted by Pendragon at 9:02 AM on January 29, 2023 [1 favorite]
Biking to work today there was so much snow in the bike lanes. These are the painted variety so there's nothing stopping the plows from clearing them (and the road they were beside was perfectly clear). Some of it is from homeowners pushing snow off their driveway onto the road but there was a lot of random snow in between houses that was only there because the plows didn't bother to clear them.
The separated lanes in front of my house have been cleared a couple of times but the city does such a half-assed job that they're still mostly covered in snow which is kind of the worst case scenario - we're paying to have the lanes cleared and they don't do it in a way that makes it safe to ride.
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 11:48 AM on January 31, 2023
The separated lanes in front of my house have been cleared a couple of times but the city does such a half-assed job that they're still mostly covered in snow which is kind of the worst case scenario - we're paying to have the lanes cleared and they don't do it in a way that makes it safe to ride.
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 11:48 AM on January 31, 2023
There actually was a 30% credit for e-bike capping at $1,500 in Biden's proposed bill....but good ol' Manchin (R) from West Virginia demanded it be removed for his vote.
posted by Atreides at 2:14 PM on February 1, 2023 [4 favorites]
posted by Atreides at 2:14 PM on February 1, 2023 [4 favorites]
Oh my god, why? I can understand not wanting to go to bat for e-bikes if it isn't something you want to be associated with (because you're a jackass, but anyway). But why actively work to remove the credit?
posted by The corpse in the library at 10:43 AM on February 2, 2023
posted by The corpse in the library at 10:43 AM on February 2, 2023
Manchin lobbies for the fossil fuel industry overall, not merely his own coal holdings. I'd expect ebikes are a huge threat to both ICE cars and electric cars, so he prioritized kiling any subsidies.
It's still Biden who caved on ebikes of course, and Biden promoting that oversized electric SUV.
I'd expect ebikes would give many people more economic freedom too, which threatens many American companies. I'll never accept the term 'forced car ownership' of course, but real researchers like Giulio Mattioli make many valid points under that heading.
Anyways, why not just ban personal cars entirely? At least within neighborhoods, making only "shared" vehicles and public transport permissible.
posted by jeffburdges at 11:49 AM on February 2, 2023 [1 favorite]
It's still Biden who caved on ebikes of course, and Biden promoting that oversized electric SUV.
I'd expect ebikes would give many people more economic freedom too, which threatens many American companies. I'll never accept the term 'forced car ownership' of course, but real researchers like Giulio Mattioli make many valid points under that heading.
Anyways, why not just ban personal cars entirely? At least within neighborhoods, making only "shared" vehicles and public transport permissible.
posted by jeffburdges at 11:49 AM on February 2, 2023 [1 favorite]
Group of drivers targeting, attacking East Bay bicyclists, 2 hospitalized with serious injuries.
posted by jeffburdges at 3:18 PM on February 14, 2023
posted by jeffburdges at 3:18 PM on February 14, 2023
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posted by gauche at 10:51 AM on January 27, 2023 [14 favorites]