I cannot handle my son’s crying. I’m an adult male btw.
February 3, 2023 1:59 PM   Subscribe

Love this personal essay about the stress of parenting This is the only advice we've ever found to be actually useful: The Bucket System. You each have a 'bucket,' and the more stressed and overwhelmed you are, the fuller your bucket is. When the bucket gets full, like you can't handle anymore: that's it. There's nothing you can do. You're overwhelmed, game over, and the best thing for everyone is if you take a break. At any point either one of you can say, 'My bucket is full,” and the other person knows that means they need to step up, no questions asked, so the full-bucketee can take some time away.
posted by SituationNormal (49 comments total) 19 users marked this as a favorite
 
I have so many questions about the bucket system, but that's not important right now.

This was well written, even though my initial thought is that his noise trigger is so perfectly 'dude' that it has to be made up, but I thank him for walking me through an experience so unrelatable as to be alien. Human brains are so interesting.

The images too - for some reason I like Microsoft Paint art.

Thanks for sharing this.
posted by The_Vegetables at 2:33 PM on February 3, 2023 [1 favorite]


I kind of feel like in the average hetero relationship only the mother gets to have a bucket that gets full and the father should just deal with it because in the average hetero relationship the mother is spending way more time and attention on the kids. The author goes to the gym and 15 minutes after coming back his bucket is full? I'm with Laur in questioning that full bucket.
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 2:35 PM on February 3, 2023 [23 favorites]


I kind of feel like in the average hetero relationship only the mother gets to have a bucket that gets full and the father should just deal with it because in the average hetero relationship the mother is spending way more time and attention on the kids. The author goes to the gym and 15 minutes after coming back his bucket is full? I'm with Laur in questioning that full bucket.


The point of the bucket system is that it isn't JUST a kids-related bucket; your whole day goes into that bucket. The author went to the gym in a rush trying to not be late to something he'd paid (sounds like a fair bit?) of money for and something that was a very rare/needed event, returned home to too much stimuli and ended up late for the thing anyway. And also what does average mean when there's diagnosed neurodivergence at work?

and the father should just deal with it

It sure would be nice if people could just WILL themselves to be emotionally perfect under all circumstances as penance for millennia of sexism but I am afraid that isn't how anything works.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 2:46 PM on February 3, 2023 [34 favorites]


This entire article is written in the style of a Dreamworks/Marvel movie and it's killing me.
posted by simmering octagon at 2:50 PM on February 3, 2023 [5 favorites]


It is pathetic, in my brain, to have admit how I’m overwhelmed by ‘the noises’ of our actual baby child.

From the outside, I have to say, all props to him for being able to admit to his unmanly weaknesses or whatever but I could not have a child with this guy.

Also his description of 'Hulking out' and how he defuses the situation with his wife by asking if her anger is a joke for his benefit ... And then there's this section:

After a minute, she says, “So...are you on break from the retreat?”

And I say, “I ended up not going,” knowing it will probably make her feel bad because I am a lil stinker.

Lo and behold, she feels bad. Clearly I really needed this retreat, so she extends what’s known in the biz as an olive branch, though she’s forgotten one thing: I hate olives.


So, this dude basically made his wife admit she questioned his bucket being full (she wasn't going to say anything but he pressed the issue). Then he got upset and decided on his own to close his laptop. Then he made her feel bad for his decision....

This is "look what you made me do" isn't it? All props to this dude for his honesty and for writing the story in a way that makes him the villain, when he could have lied to make himself look better. But like isn't this a bit manipulative of him? Don't abusers work like this also?
posted by subdee at 2:51 PM on February 3, 2023 [18 favorites]


I wish I could use the bucket thing at work.
posted by jenfullmoon at 2:55 PM on February 3, 2023 [5 favorites]


my initial thought is that his noise trigger is so perfectly 'dude' that it has to be made up

The sound of babies crying makes me want to murder the entire planet and then drown myself in lava; I am not a dude, this is not made-up or dude-specific.

(Now, this is why -- lol, this and like, 7,000 other reasons -- I don't have children and recommend that path to basically anyone who ever asks about it. Legit do not understand why someone who cannot tolerate noise and smells would think they could do A-OK with a child, that is a super boner move right there.)
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 2:58 PM on February 3, 2023 [42 favorites]


Well, we are in a homo situation over here, with two teenagers in full-blown puberty and two mothers in peri/menopause and let me tell you, all the buckets are full. There are no more buckets to be given. On the plus side, the crying has mostly stopped.
posted by Cuke at 3:00 PM on February 3, 2023 [21 favorites]


I want to start a go fund me to rescue Lauren. Anyone in?
posted by Dashy at 3:21 PM on February 3, 2023 [17 favorites]


This is a decent intro to the bucket metaphor. The problem is that there are two bucket metaphors commonly used in schools that are basically opposites (positive bucket and stress bucket). It gets confusing.

I cannot recommend the book "Parenting from the Inside Out" highly enough. The basic premise is that you need to Deal With Your Shit in order to parent effectively.

I don't feel like he's dealt with his shit. Like, setting yourself up for failure and then blowing up at the person on childcare duty is not a good look. And, given how he presents it, I'm not sure he gets that. Meditation and Exercise is not getting the job done, and I would be way more than 20 percent worrried about having another kid with him, because I would bet folding money that it will turn out to not just be crying that triggers him, but noises that kids make at every age.

Feeling bad gets you no points if you're not actually working on doing better.
posted by DebetEsse at 3:30 PM on February 3, 2023 [19 favorites]


This article made me physically recoil. The author sounds like an absolute jerk - emotionally immature, manipulative, and borderline abusive. I feel so bad for his wife and child. I sincerely hope she wakes up and leaves this relationship, because it doesn't sound like this dude is motivated to seek the actual help he needs to learn to regulate himself. The wrap-up that "but it's ok because his wife accepts that he acts like a child and still loves him" is appalling.
posted by ananci at 3:38 PM on February 3, 2023 [18 favorites]


More men should just put a nodder on it and save everyone a lot of trouble.
posted by biffa at 3:46 PM on February 3, 2023 [1 favorite]


“It’s 9:45a and I’m running late for an all-day meditation retreat.”

Hot take: douche-bro dad self centered superficial insights to follow. The sort of person who yells at their kid bc they’re interrupting them from reading a self help book.

Also: everyone knows the bucket idea is the opposite of this: if your bucket is empty you have nothing to give and need to take a break / connect with someone to fill it up.
posted by St. Peepsburg at 3:47 PM on February 3, 2023 [4 favorites]


Well, we are in a homo situation over here, with two teenagers in full-blown puberty and two mothers in peri/menopause and let me tell you, all the buckets are full.

This is what I came here to ask... what if both buckets are full at the same time? what then? Because that happens for sure.

Also, even if he is exaggerating for "comic" effect, dude really looks like he's an ass.
posted by a non mouse, a cow herd at 3:49 PM on February 3, 2023 [4 favorites]


This is appallingly written, but a very stark illustration of what happens when someone is raised to believe without question that their needs are paramount and unassailable (which is true of almost all cis white men, which is why "someone who is raised to believe without question that their needs are paramount and unassailable" often gets shorthanded that way). On the hierarchy of needs, "having a protein shake immediately after a workout" is not actually very high, nor is "not being a few minutes late to a meditation retreat," let alone "dillying" and "dallying." And yet he's set up his smug little system so that these have exactly the same amount of weight as his wife's stress from managing the care of their human infant. You can't complain! You're not allowed to complain if the bucket is full and my bucket is full! Of the super-special important stress of needing to choose between FORGOING MY PROTEIN SHAKE and KNOCKING A FEW MINUTES OFF MY ALL-DAY MEDITATION RETREAT!

I also have many stupid problems and everyone should be allowed to have stupid problems, but if your stress bucket fills up disproportionately fast specifically because you think your stupid problems are very very very very important? That's on you.
posted by babelfish at 3:55 PM on February 3, 2023 [39 favorites]


and the father should just deal with it

It sure would be nice if people could just WILL themselves to be emotionally perfect under all circumstances as penance for millennia of sexism but I am afraid that isn't how anything works.


Not saying anything about being emotionally perfect, fathers can grumble all they want or seethe inside or sulk or whatever but they can't let that get in the way of actually doing the stuff that needs to be done otherwise they're deep in DTMFA territory.
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 3:57 PM on February 3, 2023 [11 favorites]


Sounds like he might have misophonia.
posted by tiny frying pan at 4:19 PM on February 3, 2023 [1 favorite]


I'm mostly just confused. My husband and I do an informal version of this- we both can, and do, say "Hey, I can't do this, I need to go disappear for a few minutes" and go in to another room and chill.

But he was transitioning from one kid-free activity to another- gym to all day retreat. It's not so much that I don't believe his bucket was full or he was t over whelmed but like... what's his plan? What did he need from his wife? He was about to go disappear, and he wasn't on child care duty so it wasn't "hey I need you to take care of the kid right now."

So the only options I can think of are either: he wanted his wife to make the protein shake or he wanted his wife to magically make his son stop crying. And I think he's probably self aware enough to realize that saying either of those things (or admitting he said either of those things) would make him look even more self absorbed, so we get this story with a huge gaping hole in it.
posted by damayanti at 4:43 PM on February 3, 2023 [22 favorites]


I hope for the sake of the poor kid that this guy isn't quite as self absorbed as he seems from his account of how his day went. Also, how much time + effort did he invest in meditation retreats prior to having the kid ?
It seems like he still has a long way to go ....quite a long way
posted by clandestiny's child at 5:03 PM on February 3, 2023


and yes, I think we all come away from his story knowing a bit more about what "Laur" is thinking than he might care to know :) shouldn't judge from outside a situation but it's a bit hard not to after reading this ...
I'd be curious to see him really go through some tremendous personal growth in the years to come and re-visit his earlier work. (sometimes it's easy to feel really grateful to be old enough not to have grown up online / in public, in earlier decades this might've remained more private and would be less painful to re-visit later in life (?) maybe)
posted by clandestiny's child at 5:10 PM on February 3, 2023 [1 favorite]


Maybe I'm a judgmental ass, but this guy said "dude" and talked about his workout four or five tines in the first few paragraphs and I couldn't read anymore.

I have a going on two year old. I feel the pain. But I can't get with parent-bro.
posted by abucci at 5:18 PM on February 3, 2023 [3 favorites]


I couldn't help but notice that parent-bro didn't do any actual parenting. He went to the gym while his wife stayed home with the kid. He started his retreat and then aborted and tried to take a nap while his wife and kid went to the playground. Then he goes to his office when they come back and his wife is the one who puts the kid down for a nap. Then he throws his temper-tantrum. If I were his wife I think I too would question whether his bucket were really full.
posted by ultraviolet catastrophe at 5:33 PM on February 3, 2023 [16 favorites]


I can't criticize anyone trying to raise a kid. Being a parent is incredibly hard. And yes, the bucket gets full sometimes. But you don't always get to put down the bucket. Sometimes there's no one else around, or they're not going to be able to handle things. So you keep going, with a full bucket. You push through, because fundamentally, that's what being responsible for another person means. You're tired and raw and hungry and you keep going anyway because that's what needs to be done.

I just went through a couple of the toughest nights I've had as a parent. One of the kids was up for two nights straight sobbing in pain due to weird muscle cramps. And I'm trying to comfort him, carrying him to and from the bathroom, trying to keep the crying volume down so he doesn't wake up little his sibling, texting a cousin who lives nearby in a panic to ask maybe if they can come over and keep an eye on the little one if I have to take the kid to the hospital in the middle of the night. It was terrifying and it was such a blessing when he finally nodded off for a few hours. The buckets don't just get full. It's the Sorcerer's Apprentice. The buckets keep showing up, overflowing, one after the other and there's no spell to stop them.

But then in the morning, the kid gets a bit better, and can limp around on his own. Tonight he decided he wanted to play Monopoly, a game he only knows from reading Calvin and Hobbes. We don't have a Monopoly set, so he used Uno cards. He taught his little brother the rules. There are hotels and houses. The green cards are the money. Apparently there's zoning. They laughed at each other for five minutes and moved on to trains.

This guy is a relatively new parent of a single child. They haven't hit the tough stuff yet. They will, and they'll get through it, and I hope they write about it then, too.
posted by phooky at 5:41 PM on February 3, 2023 [31 favorites]


On the hierarchy of needs, "having a protein shake immediately after a workout" is not actually very high, nor is "not being a few minutes late to a meditation retreat," let alone "dillying" and "dallying."

If you're neurodivergent, which he explicitly said that he is, your brain makes them extremely important because of issues with cognitive inflexibility and a need for routine and ritual. Dude has OCD. You can tell him that having a protein shake immediately after a workout doesn't matter, it will not change how his brain works. OCD is literally "this tiny action is so so so important and if you don't do it something horrible will happen." It's not self-importance, it's a disorder of how your brain processes information.

That said he's clearly handling it poorly and needs a lot more coping and relationship skills. Being neurodivergent doesn't mean you get to just make it your partner's problem. There's ways to collaboratively handle stuff like this and I hope this therapist can help him get the skills he needs to communicate and support his partner.
posted by brook horse at 6:44 PM on February 3, 2023 [21 favorites]


Parenting is hard. I knew that going in, but I didn't know that some of the hardest stuff would be how often it would make me feel like absolute shit. Why is the call coming from inside the house?? So I'm trying to do The Work and the Self-Care but sometimes doing that makes me feel weak and selfish, which becomes another thing I need to Work On. It sounds like this guy was trying to do The Work and the Self-Care but got caught up in doing it "right," because god knows you only get an opportunity once a quarter for this kind of thing, boffed it by 10am, and subsequently had a meltdown. I feel like he's being honest and open about messing up and trying to learn from it. This stupid book I'm reading on self-compassion tells me that's what you're supposed to do, so good job, Alex.
posted by Rora at 6:50 PM on February 3, 2023 [5 favorites]


I have to admit I didn’t make it through all that because this guy is exhausting but speaking as someone who probably waited a bit too long, this guy doesn’t sound like he should have had a baby yet. He himself needed to cook a few more years first.
posted by The Monster at the End of this Thread at 8:02 PM on February 3, 2023 [3 favorites]


But like isn't this a bit manipulative of him? Don't abusers work like this also?

Sure, abusers say things they hope will make the other person feel bad. You know who else does that? Literally everyone. Can anyone here honestly say they've never said something to a partner or family member or friend that they hoped would make the other person feel sorry? That doesn't make you an asshole, it makes you a normal flawed human being.
posted by Redstart at 9:20 PM on February 3, 2023 [11 favorites]


All I could think about when I was reading this was: just you wait until you have a three year old who will Hulk out for apparently no reason at all, seemingly endlessly. Your bucket ain’t even half full, buddy.
posted by k8bot at 10:49 PM on February 3, 2023 [4 favorites]


More parents (especially male parents) need to learn that it is better to put the baby down in a crib and walk out of the room, or even walk out of the house for a few minutes, rather than shake the baby.
posted by chariot pulled by cassowaries at 1:19 AM on February 4, 2023 [1 favorite]


I didn't enjoy the writing and would never pay to read it (though I recognise that's a me problem, not a him problem). It did bring home to me why I detest online "events" as a cis woman with a family at home - it is impossible to focus on the event while I'm in the same house as my beloved domestic distractions.

I can get why as a family they would prioritise him learning to meditate. But dropping out and then pinning the blame on his partner is a dick move.
posted by altolinguistic at 5:08 AM on February 4, 2023 [1 favorite]


Notes:
- I hope he's not as schticky in the marriage-as-lived as he is on the page because I can't imagine it ending without violence
- poor Lauren, her partner has certain medical conditions which conveniently mean that their childrearing structure is going to be more 1960s than 2020s and she can in no way question that because that's just how his mind is, it's not patriarchy if he won't do the diapers
- they desperately need more space but it's California so it's not going to happen
- Self-compassion is important and helpful BUT your performance of it usually seems a bit goofy when you describe it to a perfect stranger
posted by kingdead at 6:01 AM on February 4, 2023 [13 favorites]


Sometimes I run out of spoons before my bucket gets full.
posted by Obscure Reference at 6:06 AM on February 4, 2023 [1 favorite]


CW: suicidal ideation

This dude annoys me, but that's probably on me and also likely due to how much he reminds me of me before my 2nd bout of active suicidality. Back when I was trying to meditate and exercise my nervous system into regulation. I hope he tries the services of an LCSW that can employ modalities that sidestep the compulsion to intellectualize (e.g. EMDR, brainspotting, etc). A support group of not-just-men would likely be helpful as well.

Just my projected 2c.
posted by CPAnarchist at 6:49 AM on February 4, 2023 [3 favorites]


I found this guy insufferable.

The whole story was idiotic. If he described a time when he actually was experiencing the stress of parenting, it might have made some sense.

But this dude-- with his gym time, procrastination, meditation class, then the freaking protein shake? I know he is trying to be funny but he’s such a privileged asshole who puts his needs first and wants the household to calibrate to him. Then the pouting and quitting the class in the first half hour, being a jerk to his wife.

He claims he wants to be better, but I don't think he really wants to change. He likes being the person he is. Prime example is what did he do when he quit the class? He tried to take a nap. He didn't think to do laundry or household stuff, to help with the kid. He lay down and felt sorry for himself then argued with his wife. Selfish. Then writing about it in this jokey style makes me dislike him quite a bit.

Of course, I don't know any of these people. But, if he had stayed with the retreat, I doubt very much that Lauren would have felt free to knock on the door and say her bucket was full and she needed a break throughout the day. She would have done everything she could to give him the retreat experience. But he feels free to play this card because making a shake is taking too long? And then stays in the same room, and seeks approval? I bet if they do have that second kid, they will move into a bigger house, so he gets his office back. What a baby he is, I feel sorry for his wife. Hope she finds him as lovable and funny as he thinks he is.
posted by rhonzo at 8:13 AM on February 4, 2023 [7 favorites]


Hope she finds him as lovable and funny as he thinks he is.

She must--despite knowing what he is like with one crying child in the house, she wants another.
posted by betweenthebars at 11:00 AM on February 4, 2023 [1 favorite]


I’m trying to be generous towards this person. It seems like they’re dealing with stuff and have some self awareness. That’s good - a lot of people don’t. But that’s not good enough, especially as a parent. Knowing certain things set you off is inadequate. The critical part is figuring out how to cope with those things so you don’t make things more difficult for those around you.

I’m also stuck on wondering what he expected his wife to do when he said his bucket was full. I think he wanted her to say “how can I help?” but it’s not like she was in the middle of a relaxing day. If working out before an online meditation retreat fills his bucket, I don’t know what she is supposed to do to help him with that. How often does she say her bucket is full? What does he do then?
posted by kat518 at 11:03 AM on February 4, 2023 [5 favorites]


I thought the writing was funny, even if I'm not certain that he knows what a jerk he comes across as. I too have that "must drink protein shake WITHIN THIRTY MINUTES" urge. But yeah, as damayanti said, why tell his wife his bucket was full? Get the protein shake and get out of her way.

If they'd arranged that today was an off day for him and she would to 100% of the parenting -- which is reasonable, presuming she also gets off days -- then he should've left the house and gone to the movies or something when he gave up on the yoga retreat. It's not fair to expect to be free of parental responsibilities while sitting in the living room.
posted by The corpse in the library at 11:12 AM on February 4, 2023 [1 favorite]


I’m trying to be generous towards this person. It seems like they’re dealing with stuff and have some self awareness. That’s good - a lot of people don’t. But that’s not good enough, especially as a parent. Knowing certain things set you off is inadequate. The critical part is figuring out how to cope with those things so you don’t make things more difficult for those around you.

Yes...even if I wanted kids (never have), my nervous system is very ill-calibrated for full-time child-rearing. If I decided to have kids with someone, figuring out how to adjust (and then probably doing it all over again every few years as the demands shifted!) so that I could carry my full share of the load would have to be a top priority. It's all very well to say "well I am just xyz," but then it's on you to figure out whether xyz is incompatible with raising kids (or, depending, even an equitable marriage) or whether you can figure out how to not be xyz, or compensate for being xyz, or leverage the strengths of being xyz to truly make up for any limitations.
posted by praemunire at 11:25 AM on February 4, 2023 [11 favorites]


This is appallingly written, but a very stark illustration of what happens when someone is raised to believe without question that their needs are paramount and unassailable (which is true of almost all cis white men, which is why "someone who is raised to believe without question that their needs are paramount and unassailable" often gets shorthanded that way).

Fleishman Is in Trouble (Hulu) is a series that sort of deals with this scenario but with a woman who does the 'Bucket is Full' thing in an extreme way (the metaphor the show uses is "You put your own oxygen mask first" from the pre-flight instruction manual.

I don't want to spoiler the series but if this kind of thing interests you, it is worth a watch all the way to the end.
posted by srboisvert at 5:18 PM on February 4, 2023 [1 favorite]


Guy immediately jumped out to me as neurodivergent, probably adhd. Writing style does a good job of reflecting the frenetic energy in my head. Is he an insufferable jerk, or does he have a brain disorder. It’s hard to say; I struggling with this internally myself. One minute I’m fine acknowledging my difficulties are due to a brain problem, the next, I am convinced I’m the laziest jerk ever and I should just try harder to be what others think I should be.

Those that don’t like him, please understand at least some of what he describes is due to a bonafide disability. I recognize the irrationality and procrastination and self sabotaging and overwhelm. All of that. It’s really painful.

But this dude-- with his gym time, procrastination, meditation class, then the freaking protein shake? I know he is trying to be funny but he’s such a privileged asshole who puts his needs first and wants the household to calibrate to him. Then the pouting and quitting the class in the first half hour, being a jerk to his wife.

He claims he wants to be better, but I don't think he really wants to change. He likes being the person he is


This right here is the painful self-recriminations those of us with ADHD do all the time because we can’t escape ourselves. We know can see how a neurotypical persons brain works, and when we don’t do that, make the same shit assumptions about ourselves because how else would a reasonable person explain our actions? How do we? We can’t therefore our brains conclude we are bad people because what else could it be?

Maybe if I try harder, I can finally make myself behave the way I’m “supposed to”. If I just try harder, I won’t be broken. That’s how brain disorders work, right?

I have tried explaining what the internal deficit feels like, and it just is not relatable to someone that doesn’t struggle the same way. Try harder, do more, be better, just use more willpower to overcome your structural brain problem.

I’m glad he’s sharing this, I wish people understood. Why does he need a protein shake? He doesn’t fucking know. Some remnant piece of info lingering in his head and made a priority by a brain that doesn’t know how to prioritize. And all those other things he’s doing; he thinks they’ll help him be better at doing life and that he needs to do them to do better and do it before he does anything else and if he gets the right pieces in place, he’ll better manage his adhd finally. He’s wrong and the solution is just doing the task not doing the things to support the task. Unfortunately until it becomes a crisis, he’ll keep trying to do the things around the things he should be doing, because that’s how our brains work. Then crisis, boom, like a switch is flipped and we’re effective and quick and shit gets done. The outside world sees that and questions the other times. I don’t know why, he doesn’t know why, our brains are not capable of knowing why we dicked around for hours, days, weeks to only have it come down to crunch time and then sail through the task. It it will plague most of us. Why did I waste so much time?

His behavior isn’t a choice, and the lack of recognition from the outside world just turns on a shame spiral. No one would tell a paraplegic that not being able to move their legs is a moral failure. But people remind us ADHDers every day how we are choosing to be the way we are and that makes us lazy, insufferable, procrastinators, and selfish.
posted by [insert clever name here] at 9:01 PM on February 4, 2023 [11 favorites]


I think if he'd framed the article as being about ADHD or any other type of neurodivergence, people would have been more understanding. But by framing it as being about the stress of parenting and the Bucket System introduces sexism to the situation. I completely agree that his behaviour isn't a choice. But it also very neatly matches a neurotypical pattern of fathers claiming their bucket is full after doing 15 minutes of parenting. And he wouldn't be the first neurodivergent dad (diagnosed or more likely undiagnosed) to use his own needs to avoid doing "women's work" like parenting or cleaning.
posted by harriet vane at 12:27 AM on February 5, 2023 [12 favorites]


His behavior isn’t a choice, and the lack of recognition from the outside world just turns on a shame spiral. No one would tell a paraplegic that not being able to move their legs is a moral failure. But people remind us ADHDers every day how we are choosing to be the way we are and that makes us lazy, insufferable, procrastinators, and selfish.

Yep.

Guy has ADHD and OCD, misophonia, and describes RSD episodes, stimulus overload, and subsequent meltdown really well. ADHD executive function deficit and paralysis as well.

Most people with this combo won't ever write honestly about their experiences, especially their internal ones. They won't do that because the reactions we get are inevitably similar to many present in this thread.
posted by lazaruslong at 2:33 AM on February 5, 2023 [8 favorites]


His behavior isn’t a choice

Getting married and having a kid (and thinking about more??????) is a choice, though. This is not the nineteenth century, or even 1955.

And I say, ‘ok but what’s wrong?’ a little part of me maybe wanting her to say something mean maybe?

And this? This was a choice. Picking a fight when she's trying to avoid one because he feels bad about himself and would rather externalize it? And then (because let's admit it, none of us is perfect enough never to do this or personal equivalent with a family member) to tell the story to the world like it puts him in the right??? Nope, nope, nope. This dude is simply not grown enough to have had kids, neurodivergence or not, and, if he were grown, he would most likely to have to recognize that he is not capable of being a good member of a kindly pantheon to one or more tiny ultra-dependent chaos agents. There are a lot of my limitations I feel bad about, but "very unlikely to make a good parent without a nearly-incapacitating effort" is genuinely not one of them.

I bet his dog is scared of him. And if he carries on with the fight-picking-brooding silence-yelling cycle, it won't take his kid long to be, either.
posted by praemunire at 11:05 AM on February 5, 2023 [3 favorites]


I believe my mental health challenges aren’t my fault but they are my responsibility. I think that applies to him as well. That’s especially important for parents because at some point, he’s going to have to choose between having a protein shake or getting junior to the pediatrician or school or a performance on time. The wife might have opted in to living with someone like him but the kid didn’t.
posted by kat518 at 12:12 PM on February 5, 2023 [7 favorites]


Nothing I’ve ever read or been told about being a parent - even the “sometimes your heart is so full of love it feels like it’s going to burst”-style stuff - makes it sound like even a slightly enticing prospect. I don’t know how y’all do it, so good on ya.
posted by The Card Cheat at 8:22 PM on February 5, 2023 [1 favorite]


Most people with this combo won't ever write honestly about their experiences, especially their internal ones. They won't do that because the reactions we get are inevitably similar to many present in this thread.

Yeah. That is what struck me as well. I'm not suggesting he's a saint or blameless. And as a woman, I lament the fact that gender roles seem to make it easier for men to find a partner that does the organizational, household, childrearing tasks they struggle with opposed to being a woman and having to struggle bus through it without a wife of our own to manage us (if we're straight).

But, I found his portrayal honest and genuine and it is clear he's problem in all this, even if he isn't explicit in saying so. I'd say implicitly, he lays it out pretty clearly. There is no being a good guy when you're trying pick a fight with an overwhelmed and overburdened wife doing all the childcare and household tasks that failed, in his eyes, to acknowledge and console him that his enviable day of self-care activities was too hard.

He's not oblivious to what he is sharing. I would argue this is exactly why he's writing what he's writing. The one thing that is missing is the explicit explanations of what is going on and the shame surrounding it. Maybe he just assumed his audience would pick up on it. Or maybe it's written for a much smaller audience with the same frustrations and embarrassment. And shame.
posted by [insert clever name here] at 10:53 PM on February 5, 2023 [3 favorites]


Not aiming this at anyone specifically, but as some comments have seemed to gesture in this direction and things don't always land in the way we intend, I think it needs to be said that "people with this disability cannot be fit parents" aka "no child should have to deal with a parent who is disabled in this way" is a concept with a pretty ugly past and present.

If, hypothetically, one were to find one's train of thought pulling into that station -- or anywhere in the general vicinity -- I think it would be advisable to retrace one's mental journey to figure out what went wrong.
posted by Not A Thing at 7:45 AM on February 6, 2023 [8 favorites]


I guess Mitch Hedburg was incorrect and alcoholism is not the only disease you get yelled at for having.
posted by The_Vegetables at 8:00 AM on February 6, 2023 [1 favorite]


I have a notion that social pressure to be married and possibly social pressure to have children is part of the back story. It looks like she has a strong desire to have children, but did he?

Maybe whatever doubts either of them had were overridden by a social impression that marriage is something they ought to do and it will work out alright.
posted by Nancy Lebovitz at 4:59 AM on February 10, 2023 [1 favorite]


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