The Hole of Cartoon Badness
March 4, 2023 5:05 PM Subscribe
The Best of the Worst Cartoons Ever was an episode of the early Cartoon Network show Toon Heads, it is said to have been unaired for posing several Hanna-Barbera productions as bad in some way. It had been preserved by animation historian Jerry Beck (who co-wrote it) and recently uploaded to YouTube by Jerico Dvorak. Here it is, 43 minutes of tremendous cringe.
Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kids, Clue Club, Goober and the Ghost Chasers, and The Partridge Family in 2200 A.D. were shows that all took inspiration, in various ways from Scooby-Doo. Questionable.
The Amazing Chan and the Chan Clan also borrowed a lot from Scooby. The "Chan" is Charlie Chan, the character from old movies; the Chan Clan are his ten kids, who in addition to helping to solve mysteries also participated in the legally-mandated activity of cartoon kids in the 70s: they had a band. Unfortunate.
Wonderwheels is kind of like a superhero Speed Buggy, but as a motorcycle. Ill-advised.
Rickety Rocket is nearly forgotten, possibly due to it focusing on the African American segment of 70s audiences. A number of (rolls dice): [black teenagers] solve crimes with the help of [a sentient rocketship] [in a Jetsons-style future]. Untoward.
Turbo Teen, spurred on by the success of Knight Rider, is about a teenager who actually turns into a talking car himself. The detailed transformation sequence, repeated each week, is one of the most disturbing things ever shown on Saturday Morning. Ask yourself, why do his clothes change with him? Is that why he always wears the same thing? Impolite.
The Robonic Stooges, in which the Three Stooges are recast as bumbling superheroes. Disturbing.
The Super Globetrotters, in which the Harlem Globetrotters are recast as bumbling superheroes, and also reuses all three character designs from The Incredibles. Doubtful.
Mighty Man and Yukk, about a scat-singing, afro'd superhero, who turns tiny for some reason when in super-form, and his six-foot-tall humanoid dog companion, who wears a little doghouse over his head because he is so ugly that people pass out and inanimate objects break if exposed to his visage. Improper.
The New Adventures of Huck Finn combines live animation with animation to produce something best not remembered. Accusatory.
Trollkins borrows its basic structure from The Dukes of Hazzard, because why not. Well, this is why not. Regrettable.
The Great Grape Ape is the first voice appearance in this program of 60s sitcom actor Marty Ingels. Lamentable.
Jokebook was a Laugh-In style short sketch comedy program. With generic characters and more adult humor than cartoons typically used at the time. Unconscionable.
Heyyy It's The King!, with Undercover Elephant and Shake, Rattle and Roll was nothing to write home about. Unpardonable.
Blastoff Buzzard was an attempt to recreate the style of humor from Coyote/Roadrunner cartoons, but with nowhere near the same animation budget. Woeful.
The Adventures of Pac-Man also has Marty Ingles as the titular yellow sphere. These versions of the Pac-Man characters would creep into the property and see reuse later: Namco's Pac-Land arcade game featured both its theme song and character desgins, and the NES release of Pac-Man in the U.S. used the Hanna-Barbera versions of Pac-Man and the ghosts for its cover art. Deplorable.
Richie Rich wasn't great by any means, but was comedy gold, so to speak, compared to most of the other cartoons here. Ostentatious.
Casper and the Angels I've wondered at before. It's almost fascinating: whose idea was it to put Casper the Friendly Ghost in outer space, with two lady space policepeople? Suffocating.
The worst of Tom & Jerry, specifically the Filmation version and Hanna-Barbera's own low-budget Saturday Morning version. Tawdry.
Filmation's version of Droopy, in Disco Droopy (full cartoon), was an early product of John Kricfalusi, take that for whatever it's worth. Unendurable.
Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kids, Clue Club, Goober and the Ghost Chasers, and The Partridge Family in 2200 A.D. were shows that all took inspiration, in various ways from Scooby-Doo. Questionable.
The Amazing Chan and the Chan Clan also borrowed a lot from Scooby. The "Chan" is Charlie Chan, the character from old movies; the Chan Clan are his ten kids, who in addition to helping to solve mysteries also participated in the legally-mandated activity of cartoon kids in the 70s: they had a band. Unfortunate.
Wonderwheels is kind of like a superhero Speed Buggy, but as a motorcycle. Ill-advised.
Rickety Rocket is nearly forgotten, possibly due to it focusing on the African American segment of 70s audiences. A number of (rolls dice): [black teenagers] solve crimes with the help of [a sentient rocketship] [in a Jetsons-style future]. Untoward.
Turbo Teen, spurred on by the success of Knight Rider, is about a teenager who actually turns into a talking car himself. The detailed transformation sequence, repeated each week, is one of the most disturbing things ever shown on Saturday Morning. Ask yourself, why do his clothes change with him? Is that why he always wears the same thing? Impolite.
The Robonic Stooges, in which the Three Stooges are recast as bumbling superheroes. Disturbing.
The Super Globetrotters, in which the Harlem Globetrotters are recast as bumbling superheroes, and also reuses all three character designs from The Incredibles. Doubtful.
Mighty Man and Yukk, about a scat-singing, afro'd superhero, who turns tiny for some reason when in super-form, and his six-foot-tall humanoid dog companion, who wears a little doghouse over his head because he is so ugly that people pass out and inanimate objects break if exposed to his visage. Improper.
The New Adventures of Huck Finn combines live animation with animation to produce something best not remembered. Accusatory.
Trollkins borrows its basic structure from The Dukes of Hazzard, because why not. Well, this is why not. Regrettable.
The Great Grape Ape is the first voice appearance in this program of 60s sitcom actor Marty Ingels. Lamentable.
Jokebook was a Laugh-In style short sketch comedy program. With generic characters and more adult humor than cartoons typically used at the time. Unconscionable.
Heyyy It's The King!, with Undercover Elephant and Shake, Rattle and Roll was nothing to write home about. Unpardonable.
Blastoff Buzzard was an attempt to recreate the style of humor from Coyote/Roadrunner cartoons, but with nowhere near the same animation budget. Woeful.
The Adventures of Pac-Man also has Marty Ingles as the titular yellow sphere. These versions of the Pac-Man characters would creep into the property and see reuse later: Namco's Pac-Land arcade game featured both its theme song and character desgins, and the NES release of Pac-Man in the U.S. used the Hanna-Barbera versions of Pac-Man and the ghosts for its cover art. Deplorable.
Richie Rich wasn't great by any means, but was comedy gold, so to speak, compared to most of the other cartoons here. Ostentatious.
Casper and the Angels I've wondered at before. It's almost fascinating: whose idea was it to put Casper the Friendly Ghost in outer space, with two lady space policepeople? Suffocating.
The worst of Tom & Jerry, specifically the Filmation version and Hanna-Barbera's own low-budget Saturday Morning version. Tawdry.
Filmation's version of Droopy, in Disco Droopy (full cartoon), was an early product of John Kricfalusi, take that for whatever it's worth. Unendurable.
Sorry, but the theme song from the Pac-Man cartoon has lived rent free in my head for nearly four decades now, so there is no possible way it can be bad.
posted by Zargon X at 5:25 PM on March 4, 2023 [5 favorites]
posted by Zargon X at 5:25 PM on March 4, 2023 [5 favorites]
I think I remember several of these. I vaguely recall watching the Chan Clan and being uncomfortable.
posted by slogger at 5:43 PM on March 4, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by slogger at 5:43 PM on March 4, 2023 [2 favorites]
At least a quarter of these shows were re-run on the USA Cartoon Express.
Hanna -Barbera did not have very many ideas, did they? My personal favorite re-skin of the Flintstones was the Roman Holidays if only because of the theme song.
posted by LostInUbe at 5:46 PM on March 4, 2023 [13 favorites]
Hanna -Barbera did not have very many ideas, did they? My personal favorite re-skin of the Flintstones was the Roman Holidays if only because of the theme song.
posted by LostInUbe at 5:46 PM on March 4, 2023 [13 favorites]
Submitted for your additional disapproval: MC Hammer's Hammerman.
posted by HeroZero at 5:50 PM on March 4, 2023 [7 favorites]
posted by HeroZero at 5:50 PM on March 4, 2023 [7 favorites]
Grape Ape, Grape Ape!
posted by seanmpuckett at 6:07 PM on March 4, 2023 [34 favorites]
posted by seanmpuckett at 6:07 PM on March 4, 2023 [34 favorites]
I remember some of these shows, but never really watched any of the ones listed. By the end of the 70s, I think the only decent Saturday morning cartoon show I could stand watching was the Bugs Bunny hour, or whatever it was called.
Curiously, many of these were often considered sincere attempts at diversity depictions of women and minorities at the time. I was just thinking this morning about Ark II, a Filmation live action Saturday morning sci fi show set on a post apocalyptic Earth, the main cast consisting of a strapping white guy, an Asian woman, and a younger Latino guy. Oh, and a sort of talking chimpanzee. But the real star was the super SUV they rode around in that sort of resembled the vehicle in the movie Damnation Alley. I'm thinking it was marginally better than any of the cartoons here, but pretty weak sauce by today's standards. At least they weren't a band in their spare time.
posted by 2N2222 at 6:10 PM on March 4, 2023 [9 favorites]
Curiously, many of these were often considered sincere attempts at diversity depictions of women and minorities at the time. I was just thinking this morning about Ark II, a Filmation live action Saturday morning sci fi show set on a post apocalyptic Earth, the main cast consisting of a strapping white guy, an Asian woman, and a younger Latino guy. Oh, and a sort of talking chimpanzee. But the real star was the super SUV they rode around in that sort of resembled the vehicle in the movie Damnation Alley. I'm thinking it was marginally better than any of the cartoons here, but pretty weak sauce by today's standards. At least they weren't a band in their spare time.
posted by 2N2222 at 6:10 PM on March 4, 2023 [9 favorites]
So many of these were on UK television in the after-school slot. They were stripped from their host programmes, so we never got to see the terribleness of things like Skatebirds.
What's memorable, though, are the same sound-effect clichés that were waaay overused, and sometimes didn't even remotely fit in. I mean, Exhibit A from Blastoff Buzzard: he's just got a flat, but what's with that transforming/doors falling off car kinda noise?
There were other terrible ones (The New Shmoo, anyone?) but this video took me back to when you could be happy spending whole minutes watching a Scooby Doo rehash built around a sugar cereal tie-in that never made it to your country.
posted by scruss at 6:22 PM on March 4, 2023 [9 favorites]
What's memorable, though, are the same sound-effect clichés that were waaay overused, and sometimes didn't even remotely fit in. I mean, Exhibit A from Blastoff Buzzard: he's just got a flat, but what's with that transforming/doors falling off car kinda noise?
There were other terrible ones (The New Shmoo, anyone?) but this video took me back to when you could be happy spending whole minutes watching a Scooby Doo rehash built around a sugar cereal tie-in that never made it to your country.
posted by scruss at 6:22 PM on March 4, 2023 [9 favorites]
I remember way too many of these. I clearly spent too much time in front of the TV in the 70s.
posted by gentlyepigrams at 6:38 PM on March 4, 2023 [4 favorites]
posted by gentlyepigrams at 6:38 PM on March 4, 2023 [4 favorites]
And yet, in the 90’s we got some great animated series - Eek the Cat, Earthworm Jim, Reboot, Sam & Max, Animaniacs, Freakazoid, etc. A friend said that this was the time when those who grow up with 60’s cartoons were now old enough to make their own cartoons. Maybe that explains it… These cartoons in the posted video are atrocious!
posted by njohnson23 at 6:44 PM on March 4, 2023 [6 favorites]
posted by njohnson23 at 6:44 PM on March 4, 2023 [6 favorites]
OMG, I watched way too many of these. For years, I thought I had only imagined The Amazing Chan and the Chan Clan. And the talking ape from Ark II used to give me nightmares.
posted by The Underpants Monster at 7:10 PM on March 4, 2023 [7 favorites]
posted by The Underpants Monster at 7:10 PM on March 4, 2023 [7 favorites]
I remember Jokebook when it was on prime time as a kid. It stood out because of its adult humor. For years I couldn't recall what it was called but I researched online several years ago and somehow figured it out. I recall it came on after another weird short lived show called No Soap Radio.
posted by Liquidwolf at 7:26 PM on March 4, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by Liquidwolf at 7:26 PM on March 4, 2023 [2 favorites]
An early appearance by Dick Dastardly! Now I know who was behind these devilishly devious deplorable cartoons!
/Muttley sniggers
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 7:30 PM on March 4, 2023 [7 favorites]
/Muttley sniggers
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 7:30 PM on March 4, 2023 [7 favorites]
I am pretty sure the budget for a single episode of Animaniacs exceeded that for an entire season of any of these things. The narration briefly touches on this but: these things were *cheap*. Demand was high enough that they were hiring people who could barely draw to crank them out, but they were *not* paid well, and they did *not* have the time or finding they needed to do good work.
Standards and Practices was also a giant pain in the seventies, you could *not* do “imitatable behavior” that could conceivably see a kid hurting themselves or another kid, and this made the stories even more absurd. When I worked in the industry I was told a story about working on a Tarzan show in this era where he couldn’t punch anyone, never mind summon animals to deal out beatings for him; he ended up having to defeat enemies by just *dodging* them and getting them to knock themselves out.
The changes in animation by the nineties were the result of a lot of effort to open up budgets and schedules more, to find better ways to *use* those limited budgets, and to push back on those limits. The seventies were very much a low point for the medium.
God I still get flashbacks to the fucking Trollkins theme every now and then. Never watched it, I guess there must have been something kid me liked better in the same time slot. If our local stations matched up with the schedules Wikipedia records (they didn’t always) it would have probably been Thundarr the Barbarian, which probably doesn’t hold up much better despite a bunch of Kirby/Toth designs.
posted by egypturnash at 7:31 PM on March 4, 2023 [12 favorites]
Standards and Practices was also a giant pain in the seventies, you could *not* do “imitatable behavior” that could conceivably see a kid hurting themselves or another kid, and this made the stories even more absurd. When I worked in the industry I was told a story about working on a Tarzan show in this era where he couldn’t punch anyone, never mind summon animals to deal out beatings for him; he ended up having to defeat enemies by just *dodging* them and getting them to knock themselves out.
The changes in animation by the nineties were the result of a lot of effort to open up budgets and schedules more, to find better ways to *use* those limited budgets, and to push back on those limits. The seventies were very much a low point for the medium.
God I still get flashbacks to the fucking Trollkins theme every now and then. Never watched it, I guess there must have been something kid me liked better in the same time slot. If our local stations matched up with the schedules Wikipedia records (they didn’t always) it would have probably been Thundarr the Barbarian, which probably doesn’t hold up much better despite a bunch of Kirby/Toth designs.
posted by egypturnash at 7:31 PM on March 4, 2023 [12 favorites]
One host of a podcast I like argued that the origin story for Cars is that the kid from turbo teens had kids who were turbo teens, and so on and so on and then they all got stuck as cars and collectively forgot their history. Made sense to me.
posted by Going To Maine at 7:35 PM on March 4, 2023 [12 favorites]
posted by Going To Maine at 7:35 PM on March 4, 2023 [12 favorites]
At least a quarter of these shows were re-run on the USA Cartoon Express.
Quite a few got rotation on early Cartoon Network as well.
A friend said that this was the time when those who grow up with 60’s cartoons were now old enough to make their own cartoons.
A large part of the problem was that you just didn't have the budgets, and E/I rules made It hard to get funding - hence why you see a lot of "licenced" shows during this period using existing franchises. The Reagan Administration loosening E/I was a very mixed bag (the Toyetic Era is its own wasteland), but it did let more money in.
Also, there are number of other titles that aren't here that surprise me - Funky Phantom and Jabberjaw were likely excluded being some of the more competent Scooby clones; as bad as Pac-Man was, it cannot compare to the atrocity that was Rubik (yes, they made a (short lived) animated series around a Rubik's Cube); there was an animated Gilligan's Island spinoff sending the castaways into space (space was a reoccurring theme here - there was a space-based season of Josie and the Pussycats, for another nominee); the "what is this actually about" Pole Position series...
When I worked in the industry I was told a story about working on a Tarzan show in this era where he couldn’t punch anyone, never mind summon animals to deal out beatings for him; he ended up having to defeat enemies by just *dodging* them and getting them to knock themselves out.
Masters of the Universe had an infamous "one and done" rule for the villains - one hit and they were out of the fight - that took a lot of the threat away.
it would have probably been Thundarr the Barbarian, which probably doesn’t hold up much better despite a bunch of Kirby/Toth designs.
Ehh, I recall Thundarr being campy fun, a cut rate Conan with 80s Hanna-Barbera sensibilities. Oddly enough, we got an actual Conan series in the 90s that was halfway decent.
Also for TurboTeen, Robot Chicken did a sketch based on the show that veers hard into body horror (for example, if his hands are the wheels, what happens when someone steals them? Have fun pondering that.)
posted by NoxAeternum at 7:40 PM on March 4, 2023 [6 favorites]
Quite a few got rotation on early Cartoon Network as well.
A friend said that this was the time when those who grow up with 60’s cartoons were now old enough to make their own cartoons.
A large part of the problem was that you just didn't have the budgets, and E/I rules made It hard to get funding - hence why you see a lot of "licenced" shows during this period using existing franchises. The Reagan Administration loosening E/I was a very mixed bag (the Toyetic Era is its own wasteland), but it did let more money in.
Also, there are number of other titles that aren't here that surprise me - Funky Phantom and Jabberjaw were likely excluded being some of the more competent Scooby clones; as bad as Pac-Man was, it cannot compare to the atrocity that was Rubik (yes, they made a (short lived) animated series around a Rubik's Cube); there was an animated Gilligan's Island spinoff sending the castaways into space (space was a reoccurring theme here - there was a space-based season of Josie and the Pussycats, for another nominee); the "what is this actually about" Pole Position series...
When I worked in the industry I was told a story about working on a Tarzan show in this era where he couldn’t punch anyone, never mind summon animals to deal out beatings for him; he ended up having to defeat enemies by just *dodging* them and getting them to knock themselves out.
Masters of the Universe had an infamous "one and done" rule for the villains - one hit and they were out of the fight - that took a lot of the threat away.
it would have probably been Thundarr the Barbarian, which probably doesn’t hold up much better despite a bunch of Kirby/Toth designs.
Ehh, I recall Thundarr being campy fun, a cut rate Conan with 80s Hanna-Barbera sensibilities. Oddly enough, we got an actual Conan series in the 90s that was halfway decent.
Also for TurboTeen, Robot Chicken did a sketch based on the show that veers hard into body horror (for example, if his hands are the wheels, what happens when someone steals them? Have fun pondering that.)
posted by NoxAeternum at 7:40 PM on March 4, 2023 [6 favorites]
Hammerman
Oh [hammer]man, let's talk about this one. First of all, why is it so high concept? Magical shoes, fine, it's a Saturday morning cartoon, but why does the origin involve a man getting the shoes to fight crime, but then he gets old, so he goes searching for a successor, and only then do we get to the actual protagonist. If your origin story rap takes more than thirty seconds, it's too complex.
Also, in the opening bit where the real Hammer is talking to the real kids, watch for the one who arrives late. He just pops into existence when he runs into the green screen zone set against the animated background.
posted by Servo5678 at 7:47 PM on March 4, 2023 [4 favorites]
Oh [hammer]man, let's talk about this one. First of all, why is it so high concept? Magical shoes, fine, it's a Saturday morning cartoon, but why does the origin involve a man getting the shoes to fight crime, but then he gets old, so he goes searching for a successor, and only then do we get to the actual protagonist. If your origin story rap takes more than thirty seconds, it's too complex.
Also, in the opening bit where the real Hammer is talking to the real kids, watch for the one who arrives late. He just pops into existence when he runs into the green screen zone set against the animated background.
posted by Servo5678 at 7:47 PM on March 4, 2023 [4 favorites]
What's memorable, though, are the same sound-effect clichés that were waaay overused, and sometimes didn't even remotely fit in.
I might can explain that? Hanna-Barbera made a collection of stock sound effects for their own use that got out and was widely used by lots of people. It got officially released on CD in the 2000s. I think I might even have bought at this point, but if I did I've forgotten what happened to it. I do remember seeing it on store shelves.
posted by JHarris at 7:53 PM on March 4, 2023 [4 favorites]
I might can explain that? Hanna-Barbera made a collection of stock sound effects for their own use that got out and was widely used by lots of people. It got officially released on CD in the 2000s. I think I might even have bought at this point, but if I did I've forgotten what happened to it. I do remember seeing it on store shelves.
posted by JHarris at 7:53 PM on March 4, 2023 [4 favorites]
Hanna -Barbera did not have very many ideas, did they?
I don't think that's really fair to Bill, Joe, or the other animators who worked for them. As was pointed out, 70s American animation was a nadir thanks to a confluence of low budgets and heavy limits on show design and scripts. Once things improve in the 80s and 90s, H-B was doing a lot of interesting things, as well as fostering the next generation of animators.
posted by NoxAeternum at 7:53 PM on March 4, 2023 [2 favorites]
I don't think that's really fair to Bill, Joe, or the other animators who worked for them. As was pointed out, 70s American animation was a nadir thanks to a confluence of low budgets and heavy limits on show design and scripts. Once things improve in the 80s and 90s, H-B was doing a lot of interesting things, as well as fostering the next generation of animators.
posted by NoxAeternum at 7:53 PM on March 4, 2023 [2 favorites]
Does no one remember Clutch Cargo? The mouth animation is weirdly disturbing.
posted by SPrintF at 8:00 PM on March 4, 2023 [9 favorites]
posted by SPrintF at 8:00 PM on March 4, 2023 [9 favorites]
I vaguely recall the kids in The New Adventures of Huck Finn being chased by a demented Captain Ahab throughout the semi-transparent visceria of the great whale Moby Dick, kinda like a stoner Fantastic Voyage. That was something.
posted by ovvl at 8:13 PM on March 4, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by ovvl at 8:13 PM on March 4, 2023 [2 favorites]
Does no one remember Clutch Cargo? The mouth animation is weirdly disturbing.
Clutch Cargo belongs to a slightly different era, where everyone was figuring out how to make the economics of TV animation work. Part of why Bill Hanna and Joe Barbera became major players in TV animation was because they figured out a number of key strategies, like "the collar", which allowed a character's head and body to be animated separately.
posted by NoxAeternum at 8:13 PM on March 4, 2023 [6 favorites]
Clutch Cargo belongs to a slightly different era, where everyone was figuring out how to make the economics of TV animation work. Part of why Bill Hanna and Joe Barbera became major players in TV animation was because they figured out a number of key strategies, like "the collar", which allowed a character's head and body to be animated separately.
posted by NoxAeternum at 8:13 PM on March 4, 2023 [6 favorites]
Why no mention of the Snorks? WHY NO MENTION OF THE SNORKS???!!!
posted by rikschell at 8:18 PM on March 4, 2023 [8 favorites]
posted by rikschell at 8:18 PM on March 4, 2023 [8 favorites]
Does no one remember Clutch Cargo? The mouth animation is weirdly disturbing.
Ah, yes. Syncro-Vox. I was big fan of Space Angel, myself.
posted by Thorzdad at 8:23 PM on March 4, 2023 [5 favorites]
Ah, yes. Syncro-Vox. I was big fan of Space Angel, myself.
posted by Thorzdad at 8:23 PM on March 4, 2023 [5 favorites]
I hadn’t smoked weed in awhile…and then I saw Turbo Teen and needed to take the edge off.
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 8:26 PM on March 4, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 8:26 PM on March 4, 2023 [3 favorites]
Noticed: When I said the Super Globetrotters reuses the character designs from The Incredibles, I should have said that it reuses the designs from The Impossibles. I regret the error, although not as much as Hanna-Barbera should have regretted the Super Globetrotters.
posted by JHarris at 5:15 PM on March 4
Sweet Clyde, laugh derisively at him.
posted by gc at 8:29 PM on March 4, 2023 [8 favorites]
posted by JHarris at 5:15 PM on March 4
Sweet Clyde, laugh derisively at him.
posted by gc at 8:29 PM on March 4, 2023 [8 favorites]
(This is a fantastic post)
posted by gc at 8:30 PM on March 4, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by gc at 8:30 PM on March 4, 2023 [2 favorites]
Standards and Practices was also a giant pain in the seventies
I can't dig it up now, but I think I recall reading an interview with the showrunner of the animated Return to the Planet of the Apes in which he complained about how ridiculous S&P requirements were. The heroes were being pursued by the ape army, but the ape soldiers couldn't use their guns. In my memory the guy suggested machine guns because where was a kid going to get his hands on a tripod mounted .50 caliber machine gun? But this didn't fly because, the argument went, if a kid somehow did come into possession of a .50 caliber machine gun, he could probably figure out how to fire it.
So his next suggestion was howitzers, and S&P conceded that even if a kid did manage to get his hands on a wheeled artillery piece, he would probably not be able to get it to fire. And that was why the ape army in Return to the Planet of the Apes was endlessly shelling our heroes with horse-drawn artillery to no avail.
posted by Naberius at 8:30 PM on March 4, 2023 [10 favorites]
I can't dig it up now, but I think I recall reading an interview with the showrunner of the animated Return to the Planet of the Apes in which he complained about how ridiculous S&P requirements were. The heroes were being pursued by the ape army, but the ape soldiers couldn't use their guns. In my memory the guy suggested machine guns because where was a kid going to get his hands on a tripod mounted .50 caliber machine gun? But this didn't fly because, the argument went, if a kid somehow did come into possession of a .50 caliber machine gun, he could probably figure out how to fire it.
So his next suggestion was howitzers, and S&P conceded that even if a kid did manage to get his hands on a wheeled artillery piece, he would probably not be able to get it to fire. And that was why the ape army in Return to the Planet of the Apes was endlessly shelling our heroes with horse-drawn artillery to no avail.
posted by Naberius at 8:30 PM on March 4, 2023 [10 favorites]
I didn't mind all the cartoons with the teen-detectives-who-are-also-a-rock-band, because even when the cartoon sucked, the music slapped.
posted by jonp72 at 8:45 PM on March 4, 2023 [5 favorites]
posted by jonp72 at 8:45 PM on March 4, 2023 [5 favorites]
It must be said that as a child back then, you would see the ads for the new Saturday morning schedule your older brother's comic book. You had to plan on what to watch, when, on each channel. It was serious business.
posted by Catblack at 8:49 PM on March 4, 2023 [13 favorites]
posted by Catblack at 8:49 PM on March 4, 2023 [13 favorites]
Cartoons got so bad in the mid-70s I happily started doing sports on Saturday mornings.
posted by morspin at 8:51 PM on March 4, 2023 [4 favorites]
posted by morspin at 8:51 PM on March 4, 2023 [4 favorites]
Just for fun, I decided to look at what was the lowest ranked English-language cartoon TV show on IMDB, and it was this physical fitness cartoon, Might Mr. Titan. The animation of Mr. Titan doing jumping jacks is hilarious to me.
posted by jonp72 at 8:55 PM on March 4, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by jonp72 at 8:55 PM on March 4, 2023 [2 favorites]
as bad as Pac-Man was, it cannot compare to the atrocity that was Rubik (yes, they made a (short lived) animated series around a Rubik's Cube);
I remember that! It tried to cutesify a cube with some weird tiny blue leprechaun face, but because it's a Rubik cube, it looks like this tiny, square baby Cenobite from the Hellraiser series.
posted by jonp72 at 9:00 PM on March 4, 2023 [10 favorites]
I remember that! It tried to cutesify a cube with some weird tiny blue leprechaun face, but because it's a Rubik cube, it looks like this tiny, square baby Cenobite from the Hellraiser series.
posted by jonp72 at 9:00 PM on March 4, 2023 [10 favorites]
I hadn’t smoked weed in awhile…and then I saw Turbo Teen and needed to take the edge off.
That had some weird Freudian, body horror vibes. I mean, he gets some ice cubs split on him, which makes him shrink. Because he gets cold... So after he shrinks, the teen girl who is sitting int the Turbo Teen The Car is now straddling his back while he's on all fours. Okaaaayyyyy... My wife's response was, "There were a lot of drugs, weren't there?"
posted by jonp72 at 9:04 PM on March 4, 2023 [5 favorites]
That had some weird Freudian, body horror vibes. I mean, he gets some ice cubs split on him, which makes him shrink. Because he gets cold... So after he shrinks, the teen girl who is sitting int the Turbo Teen The Car is now straddling his back while he's on all fours. Okaaaayyyyy... My wife's response was, "There were a lot of drugs, weren't there?"
posted by jonp72 at 9:04 PM on March 4, 2023 [5 favorites]
you would see the ads for the new Saturday morning schedule your older brother's comic book
Yikes. Seeing some of those images really erased the years. I remember being frustrated at how the art style of the comic book ads was mismatched to what you'd see on TV.
I found a Filmation title sequence collection on YouTube. 15 solid minutes of cringe! I had no idea that Filmation made a show (shows, actually) called "Ghost Busters". That took me down a Wikipedia hole. Those guys weren't too good at business, were they?
When Columbia Pictures started producing the film Ghostbusters in 1984, it neglected the fact that Filmation had already produced a live-action comedy series with that same name in 1975. Columbia agreed to license the name from Filmation for $608,000, plus 1% of the profits (of which there were ostensibly none thanks to Hollywood accounting). This deal did not include giving Filmation the rights to make an animated series based on the film. After the film became a success, Filmation offered to make an animated series, but Columbia chose instead to give the contract to DiC. Filmation then decided to make their own animated show based on their 1975 live-action sitcom. It was released just a few days ahead of DiC's series. DiC titled their own adaptation of the movie The Real Ghostbusters to directly distinguish it from the Filmation show.[9]
The Filmation show and the DiC show aired simultaneously, and this left audiences confused because they had similar titles and concepts. This confusion led to poor toy sales for the Filmation show. In retrospect, producer Lou Scheimer felt that it had been an error to produce a Ghostbusters show in direct competition to the more popular Columbia show.[10]
posted by polecat at 9:14 PM on March 4, 2023 [3 favorites]
Yikes. Seeing some of those images really erased the years. I remember being frustrated at how the art style of the comic book ads was mismatched to what you'd see on TV.
I found a Filmation title sequence collection on YouTube. 15 solid minutes of cringe! I had no idea that Filmation made a show (shows, actually) called "Ghost Busters". That took me down a Wikipedia hole. Those guys weren't too good at business, were they?
When Columbia Pictures started producing the film Ghostbusters in 1984, it neglected the fact that Filmation had already produced a live-action comedy series with that same name in 1975. Columbia agreed to license the name from Filmation for $608,000, plus 1% of the profits (of which there were ostensibly none thanks to Hollywood accounting). This deal did not include giving Filmation the rights to make an animated series based on the film. After the film became a success, Filmation offered to make an animated series, but Columbia chose instead to give the contract to DiC. Filmation then decided to make their own animated show based on their 1975 live-action sitcom. It was released just a few days ahead of DiC's series. DiC titled their own adaptation of the movie The Real Ghostbusters to directly distinguish it from the Filmation show.[9]
The Filmation show and the DiC show aired simultaneously, and this left audiences confused because they had similar titles and concepts. This confusion led to poor toy sales for the Filmation show. In retrospect, producer Lou Scheimer felt that it had been an error to produce a Ghostbusters show in direct competition to the more popular Columbia show.[10]
posted by polecat at 9:14 PM on March 4, 2023 [3 favorites]
Even when I was a kid I knew how bad some of these were and couldn't even sit through them, especially most of the Hanna-Barbara spinoffs and self-copies and recycling.
These really terrible cartoons definitely set the stage for the whole "cartoons as advertisements for toy lines and merchandising" era brought on by the likes of The Transformers, GI Joe, Go Bots, He Man and many more, like MASK because it really wasn't difficult to do better than most of the cartoons from the mid-70s through mid-80s.
And then you had things like the Harmony Gold retelling and recycling of Macross into Robotech, which was positively sophisticated and fine art compared to Rickety Rocket or Turbo Teen.
And, oh man, Turbo Teen. I actually forgot what that show was called. But Turbo Teen in particular was total nightmare fuel and "WTF even is this?" to me as a kid and it was pretty obviously riffing on and ripping off Knight Rider, Airwolf and other fare in the "vehicle as main character" genre and trope. Watching the clips of that kid morphing into a car is definitely triggering weird memories of unease about how bad it was.
Also at some point as a young adult probably well into my late 20s I remember seeing reruns of a lot of these on the then-new Cartoon Network and finally getting it and finding a lot of sympathy about why my mom kept asking us to turn down the TV, asking us to watch something else or not letting us watch cartoons at all.
The soundtracks are absolutely atrocious.
I mean between the badly edited and recycled music that's all over the top and very shrill sounds designed to capture the attention of kids but they're also an endless stream of people randomly screaming, loud crashing sound effects, explosions and all kinds of relentless and infernal racket.
If you close your eyes and try to listen to just the soundtrack, dialog, foley and sound FX it's like there's a endless drunken brawl between a big band, a polka band, a weird lounge act and I don't know what else and they're arguing about what to play while a riot breaks out between a bunch of voice actors hurling live muppets at each other.
I'm sure that din sounded absolutely fantastic at 6 AM on a Saturday morning.
posted by loquacious at 9:49 PM on March 4, 2023 [11 favorites]
These really terrible cartoons definitely set the stage for the whole "cartoons as advertisements for toy lines and merchandising" era brought on by the likes of The Transformers, GI Joe, Go Bots, He Man and many more, like MASK because it really wasn't difficult to do better than most of the cartoons from the mid-70s through mid-80s.
And then you had things like the Harmony Gold retelling and recycling of Macross into Robotech, which was positively sophisticated and fine art compared to Rickety Rocket or Turbo Teen.
And, oh man, Turbo Teen. I actually forgot what that show was called. But Turbo Teen in particular was total nightmare fuel and "WTF even is this?" to me as a kid and it was pretty obviously riffing on and ripping off Knight Rider, Airwolf and other fare in the "vehicle as main character" genre and trope. Watching the clips of that kid morphing into a car is definitely triggering weird memories of unease about how bad it was.
Also at some point as a young adult probably well into my late 20s I remember seeing reruns of a lot of these on the then-new Cartoon Network and finally getting it and finding a lot of sympathy about why my mom kept asking us to turn down the TV, asking us to watch something else or not letting us watch cartoons at all.
The soundtracks are absolutely atrocious.
I mean between the badly edited and recycled music that's all over the top and very shrill sounds designed to capture the attention of kids but they're also an endless stream of people randomly screaming, loud crashing sound effects, explosions and all kinds of relentless and infernal racket.
If you close your eyes and try to listen to just the soundtrack, dialog, foley and sound FX it's like there's a endless drunken brawl between a big band, a polka band, a weird lounge act and I don't know what else and they're arguing about what to play while a riot breaks out between a bunch of voice actors hurling live muppets at each other.
I'm sure that din sounded absolutely fantastic at 6 AM on a Saturday morning.
posted by loquacious at 9:49 PM on March 4, 2023 [11 favorites]
I tried to show my kids Jabberjaw the shark, and I couldn't even really find anything on youtube. That's how bad it was.
Also, I think I disagree with the entire premise: Hanna Barbera were always bad. Tom & Jerry were always low rent, The Flintstones not very good, and Scooby Doo literally had only one plot, just different locations.
They were always the bad cartoons, compared to Bugs Bunny and then the later stuff, which if you want to call it mostly toy commercials, that's fine, but so was Star Wars and every cartoon that came after it, so IMO it's not a very deep complaint.
Transformers wasn't a bad cartoon because it was a toy commercial or because they regularly recycled animation blocks (which Mask and GI Joe the original never did), it was a bad cartoon because they literally called a country Carbombistan.
posted by The_Vegetables at 10:13 PM on March 4, 2023 [10 favorites]
Also, I think I disagree with the entire premise: Hanna Barbera were always bad. Tom & Jerry were always low rent, The Flintstones not very good, and Scooby Doo literally had only one plot, just different locations.
They were always the bad cartoons, compared to Bugs Bunny and then the later stuff, which if you want to call it mostly toy commercials, that's fine, but so was Star Wars and every cartoon that came after it, so IMO it's not a very deep complaint.
Transformers wasn't a bad cartoon because it was a toy commercial or because they regularly recycled animation blocks (which Mask and GI Joe the original never did), it was a bad cartoon because they literally called a country Carbombistan.
posted by The_Vegetables at 10:13 PM on March 4, 2023 [10 favorites]
I say “Rickety Rocket, blast off!” to myself the same way Saul Goodman says “It’s showtime!” in the mirror.
Feels good to get that off my chest.
posted by kerf at 10:55 PM on March 4, 2023 [12 favorites]
Feels good to get that off my chest.
posted by kerf at 10:55 PM on March 4, 2023 [12 favorites]
Turbo Teen leaves me with a few questions.
Given the low-budgetness of these cartoons, I have to ask: Is that Michael Jackson's "Thriller" on the soundtrack? Even as an instrumental it must have been been a pretty big licensing cost -- or is it just a cheap sound-alike track?
Also the way they depict the teen transforming into a car must have been influenced by American Werewolf in London, right?
And finally, everything about the drive-in movie date scene -- text, context, and subtext -- smacks of an abandoned mid-career Cronenberg project.
posted by theory at 11:11 PM on March 4, 2023 [1 favorite]
Given the low-budgetness of these cartoons, I have to ask: Is that Michael Jackson's "Thriller" on the soundtrack? Even as an instrumental it must have been been a pretty big licensing cost -- or is it just a cheap sound-alike track?
Also the way they depict the teen transforming into a car must have been influenced by American Werewolf in London, right?
And finally, everything about the drive-in movie date scene -- text, context, and subtext -- smacks of an abandoned mid-career Cronenberg project.
posted by theory at 11:11 PM on March 4, 2023 [1 favorite]
JHarris, I had (or may still have in my closet) that Hanna Barbera CD. I think I bought it at a used CD store in Japan.
Somewhere along the line I also bought Saturday Morning: Cartoon's Greatest Hits. The Reverend Horton Heat covering Johnny Quest/Stop That Pigeon hit many of my MD/CD mixes of that time. It doesn't have the cultural cache that School House Rock! Rocks does but I always liked that CD even if I always skipped over a bunch of tracks.
posted by LostInUbe at 11:19 PM on March 4, 2023 [12 favorites]
Somewhere along the line I also bought Saturday Morning: Cartoon's Greatest Hits. The Reverend Horton Heat covering Johnny Quest/Stop That Pigeon hit many of my MD/CD mixes of that time. It doesn't have the cultural cache that School House Rock! Rocks does but I always liked that CD even if I always skipped over a bunch of tracks.
posted by LostInUbe at 11:19 PM on March 4, 2023 [12 favorites]
If our local stations matched up with the schedules Wikipedia records (they didn’t always) it would have probably been Thundarr the Barbarian, which probably doesn’t hold up much better despite a bunch of Kirby/Toth designs.
From the relatively little that I've seen of it, it does; in addition to Kirby and Toth, it was created by Steve Gerber and other comics writers worked on it.
Speaking of Kirby, he apparently did a whole bunch of animation concepts for Ruby-Spears that never saw the light of day; this article has a number of them. Cartoonist Jim Woodring colored and inked some of them.
posted by Halloween Jack at 11:23 PM on March 4, 2023 [3 favorites]
From the relatively little that I've seen of it, it does; in addition to Kirby and Toth, it was created by Steve Gerber and other comics writers worked on it.
Speaking of Kirby, he apparently did a whole bunch of animation concepts for Ruby-Spears that never saw the light of day; this article has a number of them. Cartoonist Jim Woodring colored and inked some of them.
posted by Halloween Jack at 11:23 PM on March 4, 2023 [3 favorites]
the main cast consisting of a strapping white guy, an Asian woman, and a younger Latino guy. Oh, and a sort of talking chimpanzee.
Wow.
posted by Paul Slade at 11:52 PM on March 4, 2023 [1 favorite]
Wow.
posted by Paul Slade at 11:52 PM on March 4, 2023 [1 favorite]
Tom & Jerry were always low rent
Okay I'm sorry but I have to dispute this statement. The original theatrical Tom & Jerry shorts are among the most impressive cartoons ever made, on every level. They mention in the video that the original Tom & Jerrys won seven Oscars, and they deserved them. There's a few seconds of the T&J Christmas cartoon in there, which I seem to remember was one of the Oscar winners, and the difference between the animation in that and everything else in the video is more jarring than a jar of pickles. Which, um, is pretty jarring?
posted by JHarris at 11:53 PM on March 4, 2023 [24 favorites]
Okay I'm sorry but I have to dispute this statement. The original theatrical Tom & Jerry shorts are among the most impressive cartoons ever made, on every level. They mention in the video that the original Tom & Jerrys won seven Oscars, and they deserved them. There's a few seconds of the T&J Christmas cartoon in there, which I seem to remember was one of the Oscar winners, and the difference between the animation in that and everything else in the video is more jarring than a jar of pickles. Which, um, is pretty jarring?
posted by JHarris at 11:53 PM on March 4, 2023 [24 favorites]
There's a few seconds of the T&J Christmas cartoon in there, which I seem to remember was one of the Oscar winners, and the difference between the animation in that and everything else in the video is more jarring than a jar of pickles. Which, um, is pretty jarring?
It's also worth pointing out that made for TV Looney Tunes in the 70s were also in pretty dire straits as well, thanks to low budgets, studio meddling, and poor concepts. What helped the Looney Tunes brand in the public consciousness was Jack Warner (who it was famously said never knew where Termite Terrace was on the Warner back lot) practically giving away the Looney Tunes legacy for a pittance. People don't realize how drastic the budget dropoff was for TV animation from theatrical animation. Which leads to...
And then you had things like the Harmony Gold retelling and recycling of Macross into Robotech, which was positively sophisticated and fine art compared to Rickety Rocket or Turbo Teen.
Here's the thing though - the TV anime industry in particular has infamously balanced its books on the back of its staff - a tradition starting with Tezuka intentionally understating cel costs to get budgets to work and which continues on to this day.
Transformers wasn't a bad cartoon because it was a toy commercial or because they regularly recycled animation blocks (which Mask and GI Joe the original never did), it was a bad cartoon because they literally called a country Carbombistan.
While this was a horrible decision which famously led to legendary Arab-American voice actor Casey Kasem (yes, the voice of Norville 'Shaggy' Rogers himself) telling the production to go fuck themselves, it's also in line with American pop culture of the time, which seemed bent on portraying Middle Eastern peoples as the villains in a lot of media. As I said, the Toyetic Era of Western animation is its own wasteland.
posted by NoxAeternum at 12:35 AM on March 5, 2023 [4 favorites]
It's also worth pointing out that made for TV Looney Tunes in the 70s were also in pretty dire straits as well, thanks to low budgets, studio meddling, and poor concepts. What helped the Looney Tunes brand in the public consciousness was Jack Warner (who it was famously said never knew where Termite Terrace was on the Warner back lot) practically giving away the Looney Tunes legacy for a pittance. People don't realize how drastic the budget dropoff was for TV animation from theatrical animation. Which leads to...
And then you had things like the Harmony Gold retelling and recycling of Macross into Robotech, which was positively sophisticated and fine art compared to Rickety Rocket or Turbo Teen.
Here's the thing though - the TV anime industry in particular has infamously balanced its books on the back of its staff - a tradition starting with Tezuka intentionally understating cel costs to get budgets to work and which continues on to this day.
Transformers wasn't a bad cartoon because it was a toy commercial or because they regularly recycled animation blocks (which Mask and GI Joe the original never did), it was a bad cartoon because they literally called a country Carbombistan.
While this was a horrible decision which famously led to legendary Arab-American voice actor Casey Kasem (yes, the voice of Norville 'Shaggy' Rogers himself) telling the production to go fuck themselves, it's also in line with American pop culture of the time, which seemed bent on portraying Middle Eastern peoples as the villains in a lot of media. As I said, the Toyetic Era of Western animation is its own wasteland.
posted by NoxAeternum at 12:35 AM on March 5, 2023 [4 favorites]
So many of these were on UK television in the after-school slot. They were stripped from their host programmes, so we never got to see the terribleness of things like Skatebirds
In terms of low cost kids programming from the 70s in the UK: I guess we can feel thankful for some of these shows for displacing space in the schedule that would otherwise have been taken up by more nightmarish material from behind the Iron Curtain (The Singing Ringing Tree), from British material “for older children” (Children of the Stones) or from Public Information Films.
posted by rongorongo at 4:28 AM on March 5, 2023 [6 favorites]
In terms of low cost kids programming from the 70s in the UK: I guess we can feel thankful for some of these shows for displacing space in the schedule that would otherwise have been taken up by more nightmarish material from behind the Iron Curtain (The Singing Ringing Tree), from British material “for older children” (Children of the Stones) or from Public Information Films.
posted by rongorongo at 4:28 AM on March 5, 2023 [6 favorites]
I found a Filmation title sequence collection on YouTube. 15 solid minutes of cringe! I had no idea that Filmation made a show (shows, actually) called "Ghost Busters". That took me down a Wikipedia hole. Those guys weren't too good at business, were they?
That rotating “Lou Scheimer-Norm Prescott” credit always seemed to act as the Official Seal of Mediocrity. No matter how hyped-up the opening credits made you, if you saw the rotating Lou-and-Norm, you knew immediately this show was going to be shit-on-a-stick.
Even as a kid (well, young teen at that point) that rotating Norm-Lou thing in the middle of the credits also made wonder what sort of egotistical tools those two guys were to require something like that.
posted by Thorzdad at 5:23 AM on March 5, 2023 [5 favorites]
That rotating “Lou Scheimer-Norm Prescott” credit always seemed to act as the Official Seal of Mediocrity. No matter how hyped-up the opening credits made you, if you saw the rotating Lou-and-Norm, you knew immediately this show was going to be shit-on-a-stick.
Even as a kid (well, young teen at that point) that rotating Norm-Lou thing in the middle of the credits also made wonder what sort of egotistical tools those two guys were to require something like that.
posted by Thorzdad at 5:23 AM on March 5, 2023 [5 favorites]
For some reason, Grape Ape popped into my head this past week. Coincidence, I'm sure. Still...
posted by tommasz at 5:30 AM on March 5, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by tommasz at 5:30 AM on March 5, 2023 [1 favorite]
I didn't mind all the cartoons with the teen-detectives-who-are-also-a-rock-band, because even when the cartoon sucked, the music slapped.
in the moonlight, things get kinda kooky
I watched these in reruns as a kid, where they gave me the wrong idea about how easy it is to start a band and how likely you are to run into solvable mysteries. At least Harriet the Spy was around to nip that last one in the bud. I also watched them as an ironic '90s teen/aspiring animator on the Cartoon Network. That was how I learned about the disproportionate influence of actors like Ed Wynn, Arnold Stang, Curly Howard, and Paul Lynde on character models. If those guys weren't doing the voices themselves, somebody else did an impression: instant character actor, pull cord to inflate.
LostInUbe: that album was in constant rotation for me as a teen!
I remember reading one writer who said that the Chan Clan was the only Asian teen representation he could see as a kid, as bad as it was. They couldn't even paint the pupils to look in the right direction.
Thank you for this thread! So much great info in the post and comments --
posted by Countess Elena at 6:09 AM on March 5, 2023 [5 favorites]
in the moonlight, things get kinda kooky
I watched these in reruns as a kid, where they gave me the wrong idea about how easy it is to start a band and how likely you are to run into solvable mysteries. At least Harriet the Spy was around to nip that last one in the bud. I also watched them as an ironic '90s teen/aspiring animator on the Cartoon Network. That was how I learned about the disproportionate influence of actors like Ed Wynn, Arnold Stang, Curly Howard, and Paul Lynde on character models. If those guys weren't doing the voices themselves, somebody else did an impression: instant character actor, pull cord to inflate.
LostInUbe: that album was in constant rotation for me as a teen!
I remember reading one writer who said that the Chan Clan was the only Asian teen representation he could see as a kid, as bad as it was. They couldn't even paint the pupils to look in the right direction.
Thank you for this thread! So much great info in the post and comments --
posted by Countess Elena at 6:09 AM on March 5, 2023 [5 favorites]
Oh, I forgot: recently I learned about Laverne and Shirley in the Army. I missed this one, so I found it particularly baffling, but I did remember the type. Even as a kid, I was puzzled by the way they would take a show with real people in it, add something magic or alien, and then just go with it. Not that I wouldn't watch those shows -- back then, you watched what there was to watch, especially if it was Saturday morning. I really only watched Punky Brewster in this format, and it was even how I took in baby's first Star Trek. But then, as that thread showed, ST: TOS: TAS was not just a cash grab, at least not to the writers.
(sorry guys, caffeine and animation make me type a lot)
posted by Countess Elena at 6:26 AM on March 5, 2023 [3 favorites]
(sorry guys, caffeine and animation make me type a lot)
posted by Countess Elena at 6:26 AM on March 5, 2023 [3 favorites]
Why no mention of the Snorks? WHY NO MENTION OF THE SNORKS???!!!
Snorks wasn't great, but it was exactly the same as the Smurfs, which was all better than the 70s tv animation.
posted by Liquidwolf at 6:37 AM on March 5, 2023 [3 favorites]
Tom & Jerry were always low rent
Okay I'm sorry but I have to dispute this statement. The original theatrical Tom & Jerry shorts are among the most impressive cartoons ever made, on every level.
Definitely, early Tom and Jerry was great animation. It wasn't until later post Chuck Jones era that it became crap.
posted by Liquidwolf at 6:38 AM on March 5, 2023 [5 favorites]
UK TV's habit of importing some of the worst of these has been mentioned above, but the UK did have its own small 2D animation industry, and it was also squeezed for cash. The difference was that it decided to make a virtue of cheapness and created shows that were not only distinctive and original, but which are still beloved today, and in one case was almost certainly one of the forerunners of the whole ethos of punk--the godlike Roobarb from 1974, animated by Oscar-winner Bob Godfrey.
posted by Hogshead at 7:03 AM on March 5, 2023 [4 favorites]
posted by Hogshead at 7:03 AM on March 5, 2023 [4 favorites]
Totally.
Marketers seem to have concluded sometime in the 70s that humans 2 to 12 years old are basically catatonic and that therefore everything designed for them must be VERY SIMPLE and VERY LOUD. Their food must be nuggets or they won't understand how to eat it. Their toys must shriek and bong and chatter constantly or they'll mistake them for rocks. Childhood in the USA is like being trapped in Vegas.
posted by Don Pepino at 7:19 AM on March 5, 2023 [9 favorites]
Marketers seem to have concluded sometime in the 70s that humans 2 to 12 years old are basically catatonic and that therefore everything designed for them must be VERY SIMPLE and VERY LOUD. Their food must be nuggets or they won't understand how to eat it. Their toys must shriek and bong and chatter constantly or they'll mistake them for rocks. Childhood in the USA is like being trapped in Vegas.
posted by Don Pepino at 7:19 AM on March 5, 2023 [9 favorites]
Even as a kid, I was puzzled by the way they would take a show with real people in it, add something magic or alien, and then just go with it. Not that I wouldn't watch those shows -- back then, you watched what there was to watch, especially if it was Saturday morning. I really only watched Punky Brewster in this format,
I remember that the magic alien sidekick on the Punky Brewster animated cartoon was called Glomer. I believe he would refer to Punky Brewster as "Punky Friend" and that he could also glow and levitate. Did I imagine that?
posted by jonp72 at 7:24 AM on March 5, 2023 [3 favorites]
I remember that the magic alien sidekick on the Punky Brewster animated cartoon was called Glomer. I believe he would refer to Punky Brewster as "Punky Friend" and that he could also glow and levitate. Did I imagine that?
posted by jonp72 at 7:24 AM on March 5, 2023 [3 favorites]
Definitely, early Tom and Jerry was great animation. It wasn't until later post Chuck Jones era that it became crap.
The Iron Curtain Czech Tom & Jerry shorts are a wonderfully bizzare bit of animation history, though.
I remember that the magic alien sidekick on the Punky Brewster animated cartoon was called Glomer. I believe he would refer to Punky Brewster as "Punky Friend" and that he could also glow and levitate. Did I imagine that?
No, no you did not. Though he wasn't an alien, but a magical creature who got trapped on her plane of existence. That was another bad cartoon that got the Robot Chicken treatment, though that one was rather mean-spirited given it used gigantomastia as a gag, which was particularly tasteless given the show's star's fight with the condition.
As for why 70s American animation was so horrible, I'd argue that was a confluence of a few factors:
* First was the collapse of theatrical animation. By the mid-70s, most of the great animation studios were either gone or just shells of themselves. Theatrical short form animation, which paid the bills, ceased to functionally exist for 2-3 decades (it wouldn't be until Runaway Brain that studios started taking the format seriously again.)
* In particular, the collapse of UPA did a lot to collapse exploration in American animation. It also was a gut punch to Warner animation with their booting of Chuck Jones over Gay Purree (even if, technically speaking, it was his own fault.)
* The death of Walt Disney and (more importantly) the lack of company planning for it left the House of Mouse directionless for over a decade, resulting in the Disney Dark Age, Don Bluth's 'revolt' at the end of the 70s, and the industry not having one of its leaders functioning as one.
* Budgets for TV animation were at a low, combined with relatively strict E/I and BS&P rules that made being adventurous difficult. It also didn't help that attempts at such resulted in horrible dreck like the aforementioned Jokebook.
* There was also the push to get more diverse content on children's animation being handled by people who, while well meaning really did not grasp the assignment.
posted by NoxAeternum at 7:36 AM on March 5, 2023 [7 favorites]
The Iron Curtain Czech Tom & Jerry shorts are a wonderfully bizzare bit of animation history, though.
I remember that the magic alien sidekick on the Punky Brewster animated cartoon was called Glomer. I believe he would refer to Punky Brewster as "Punky Friend" and that he could also glow and levitate. Did I imagine that?
No, no you did not. Though he wasn't an alien, but a magical creature who got trapped on her plane of existence. That was another bad cartoon that got the Robot Chicken treatment, though that one was rather mean-spirited given it used gigantomastia as a gag, which was particularly tasteless given the show's star's fight with the condition.
As for why 70s American animation was so horrible, I'd argue that was a confluence of a few factors:
* First was the collapse of theatrical animation. By the mid-70s, most of the great animation studios were either gone or just shells of themselves. Theatrical short form animation, which paid the bills, ceased to functionally exist for 2-3 decades (it wouldn't be until Runaway Brain that studios started taking the format seriously again.)
* In particular, the collapse of UPA did a lot to collapse exploration in American animation. It also was a gut punch to Warner animation with their booting of Chuck Jones over Gay Purree (even if, technically speaking, it was his own fault.)
* The death of Walt Disney and (more importantly) the lack of company planning for it left the House of Mouse directionless for over a decade, resulting in the Disney Dark Age, Don Bluth's 'revolt' at the end of the 70s, and the industry not having one of its leaders functioning as one.
* Budgets for TV animation were at a low, combined with relatively strict E/I and BS&P rules that made being adventurous difficult. It also didn't help that attempts at such resulted in horrible dreck like the aforementioned Jokebook.
* There was also the push to get more diverse content on children's animation being handled by people who, while well meaning really did not grasp the assignment.
posted by NoxAeternum at 7:36 AM on March 5, 2023 [7 favorites]
Tom and Jerry is an odd case because you had everyone working on it from Hanna and Barbera, who created the characters, Chuck Jones was in for a while, freaking Filmation did a stretch, and then there was that really bizarre time where it was farmed out to a Czechoslovakian studio (during the Cold War!) that had never seen an American cartoon.
(oops, dupe! Sorry NoxAeternum)
posted by JoeZydeco at 7:38 AM on March 5, 2023 [3 favorites]
(oops, dupe! Sorry NoxAeternum)
posted by JoeZydeco at 7:38 AM on March 5, 2023 [3 favorites]
It's like that stupid Boomer T-shirt: I may be old, but I saw the best bands. Add cartoons.
I'm seriously grateful never to have any of this new-fangled crappy jerky animation lodged in my subconscious. (Hanna-Barbera dates back to 1957, when I was five.) Long live Chuck Jones, Max Fleischer...and Little Lulu, Betty Boop, the Road Runner, Woody Woodpecker, Bugs Bunny, Tom, Jerry etc.
posted by kozad at 7:38 AM on March 5, 2023 [3 favorites]
I'm seriously grateful never to have any of this new-fangled crappy jerky animation lodged in my subconscious. (Hanna-Barbera dates back to 1957, when I was five.) Long live Chuck Jones, Max Fleischer...and Little Lulu, Betty Boop, the Road Runner, Woody Woodpecker, Bugs Bunny, Tom, Jerry etc.
posted by kozad at 7:38 AM on March 5, 2023 [3 favorites]
For a long while in Phoenix you had to plan the end of your cartoon watching by 10:30am because that's when KPHO aired WORLD BEYOND, their weekly sci-fi movie. They ran one from 1964 til 1988! It even inspired a book. When I got to the valley and started watching it at the end of the 70s, the intros were read by local weatherman Stu Tracy. Give a moment to hear his golden intros recorded onto audiotape by a fan.
Sorry if this sounds like a derail, having the big mid-70s console tv to ourselves on Saturday mornings was a huge part of growing up for me. Anyhow, after 10am the cartoons had all gone to crap, you'd be lucky to catch Davey and Goliath on pbs or something. Or maybe Fat Albert came on at 10am? That's the cartoon my mom always thought it was ok for us to watch because it had a moral message at the end.
posted by Catblack at 7:55 AM on March 5, 2023 [5 favorites]
Sorry if this sounds like a derail, having the big mid-70s console tv to ourselves on Saturday mornings was a huge part of growing up for me. Anyhow, after 10am the cartoons had all gone to crap, you'd be lucky to catch Davey and Goliath on pbs or something. Or maybe Fat Albert came on at 10am? That's the cartoon my mom always thought it was ok for us to watch because it had a moral message at the end.
posted by Catblack at 7:55 AM on March 5, 2023 [5 favorites]
The theme song to "Mission: Magic!" is so catchy—it continues to haunt me to this day. I am sad that Rick Springfield, who voiced his own character, said that the show scarred him for life.
posted by jabah at 8:10 AM on March 5, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by jabah at 8:10 AM on March 5, 2023 [2 favorites]
Ctrl-F Where's Huddles?
Oh, this is not a comprehensive list...
posted by the sobsister at 8:24 AM on March 5, 2023
Oh, this is not a comprehensive list...
posted by the sobsister at 8:24 AM on March 5, 2023
Also, on the subject of Jabberjaw, probably the best bit of content was the music video reinventing The Neptunes as a ska band.
posted by NoxAeternum at 8:49 AM on March 5, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by NoxAeternum at 8:49 AM on March 5, 2023 [2 favorites]
I'm seriously grateful never to have any of this new-fangled crappy jerky animation lodged in my subconscious. (Hanna-Barbera dates back to 1957, when I was five.)
As shit the HB style could be, it was also responsible for three of the, arguably, greatest tv cartoon series of early-to-mid 60s, The Flintstones, The Jetsons, and Jonny Quest.
Interestingly, they were all originally prime-time shows, not Saturday morning shows, which is probably why they were, and still are, so good. The scripts make you forget the limited animation style. I mean, they aren’t high drama, but they are far above the quality of the Saturday shows.
posted by Thorzdad at 8:53 AM on March 5, 2023 [3 favorites]
As shit the HB style could be, it was also responsible for three of the, arguably, greatest tv cartoon series of early-to-mid 60s, The Flintstones, The Jetsons, and Jonny Quest.
Interestingly, they were all originally prime-time shows, not Saturday morning shows, which is probably why they were, and still are, so good. The scripts make you forget the limited animation style. I mean, they aren’t high drama, but they are far above the quality of the Saturday shows.
posted by Thorzdad at 8:53 AM on March 5, 2023 [3 favorites]
JHarris: “the original Tom & Jerrys won seven Oscars, and they deserved them.”I recently watched all the Loony Tunes on HBO, first as a goof to kill some time, and then as a serious study because those early ones from the 1930s and 1940s are really cultural artifacts from their time, i.e., they're extremely violent and reactionary. And they showed them on TV long enough that I saw them on TV as a child. I mean look at “The Cat Came Back” which was censored for syndication, but I know I didn't see the censored version. It boggles my mind that these shorts are still rated as TV-Y7.
In any case, I then decided to also watch the Tom and Jerry shorts. The animation and music is just remarkably better. There's one scene in particular where the reflections in the floor are so good it made me say, "Damn, those are some really good reflections."
Sadly, I grew tired of the violence-for-violence's sake nature of them quickly and stopped part way through the second season. Itchy and Scratchy really weren't very far off.
posted by ob1quixote at 8:54 AM on March 5, 2023 [2 favorites]
The scripts make you forget the limited animation style.
This was another major point that Bill and Joe keyed in on - since they couldn't put money they didn't have into the animation, the writing had to carry the day. While it could wildly vary, it's worth noting that all the H-B properties people most fondly remember tend to be the most tightly written.
posted by NoxAeternum at 9:02 AM on March 5, 2023 [3 favorites]
This was another major point that Bill and Joe keyed in on - since they couldn't put money they didn't have into the animation, the writing had to carry the day. While it could wildly vary, it's worth noting that all the H-B properties people most fondly remember tend to be the most tightly written.
posted by NoxAeternum at 9:02 AM on March 5, 2023 [3 favorites]
Why no mention of the Snorks? WHY NO MENTION OF THE SNORKS???!!!
We have good lawyers.
posted by SunSnork at 9:20 AM on March 5, 2023 [26 favorites]
We have good lawyers.
posted by SunSnork at 9:20 AM on March 5, 2023 [26 favorites]
If you ever needed confirmation that Hanna-Barbara coasted by on recycled concepts for decades, look no further than putting Cogswell from The Jetsons and Mr Slate from The Flintstones side-by-side.
posted by dr_dank at 9:27 AM on March 5, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by dr_dank at 9:27 AM on March 5, 2023 [3 favorites]
Transformers wasn't a bad cartoon because it was a toy commercial or because they regularly recycled animation blocks (which Mask and GI Joe the original never did), it was a bad cartoon because they literally called a country Carbombistan.
This sent me to Google, and I must correct the record. Transformers called a country the Socialist Democratic Federated Republic of Carbombya.
posted by Going To Maine at 10:16 AM on March 5, 2023 [7 favorites]
This sent me to Google, and I must correct the record. Transformers called a country the Socialist Democratic Federated Republic of Carbombya.
posted by Going To Maine at 10:16 AM on March 5, 2023 [7 favorites]
The theme song to "Mission: Magic!" is so catchy
It's like Miss Frizzle had an older sister who did shrooms.
posted by jonp72 at 10:34 AM on March 5, 2023
It's like Miss Frizzle had an older sister who did shrooms.
posted by jonp72 at 10:34 AM on March 5, 2023
This sent me to Google, and I must correct the record. Transformers called a country the Socialist Democratic Federated Republic of Carbombya.
This is probably a Muammar Gaddafi reference, which would fit with the time period. Under Gaddafi, Libya's full name was "the Great Socialist People's Libyan Arab Jamihiriya."
posted by jonp72 at 10:37 AM on March 5, 2023 [1 favorite]
This is probably a Muammar Gaddafi reference, which would fit with the time period. Under Gaddafi, Libya's full name was "the Great Socialist People's Libyan Arab Jamihiriya."
posted by jonp72 at 10:37 AM on March 5, 2023 [1 favorite]
→
TIL about those CDs. Of course there are rips of them out there. There are even Youtube "full album" rips, which I might now find ways to sneak into people's playlists. I bet they are a laff to play on shuffle.
But the question of why these badly-matched sounds were used remains unanswered. Maybe I'm being too literal. Maybe the sounds are situational, rather than representational. We're not supposed to hear the sound as Blastoff Buzzard's inner tube puncturing: we are to hear it as “Antagonist foiled by failing technology”. Maybe we should play it when we hear anything about Elon Musk?
→
Roobarb slays. Simple bright wobbly lines, brilliant writing. There were some older British studios like Halas and Batchelor who produced decent stuff. Somebody tricked me into watching their Animal Farm (1954) far too young, and I don't think I ever quite recovered from the shock
posted by scruss at 11:19 AM on March 5, 2023 [3 favorites]
Hanna-Barbera made a collection of stock sound effects for their own use
TIL about those CDs. Of course there are rips of them out there. There are even Youtube "full album" rips, which I might now find ways to sneak into people's playlists. I bet they are a laff to play on shuffle.
But the question of why these badly-matched sounds were used remains unanswered. Maybe I'm being too literal. Maybe the sounds are situational, rather than representational. We're not supposed to hear the sound as Blastoff Buzzard's inner tube puncturing: we are to hear it as “Antagonist foiled by failing technology”. Maybe we should play it when we hear anything about Elon Musk?
→
the UK did have its own small 2D animation industry, and it was also squeezed for cash
Roobarb slays. Simple bright wobbly lines, brilliant writing. There were some older British studios like Halas and Batchelor who produced decent stuff. Somebody tricked me into watching their Animal Farm (1954) far too young, and I don't think I ever quite recovered from the shock
posted by scruss at 11:19 AM on March 5, 2023 [3 favorites]
The difference was that it decided to make a virtue of cheapness and created shows that were not only distinctive and original, but which are still beloved today.
To be fair, H-B, even in their TV phase, made a number of cartoons that are beloved today too. The original incarnations of Huckleberry Hound, Yogi Bear, and others weren't that well animated, but at that point it was the best they could do under the extreme financial strictures they were under. It must have galled them at first, after having made such lavish cartoons at MGM, to have to resort to limited animation, but in retrospect it's part of why we remember them having such long careers. Hanna and Barbera made it into the Cartoon Network era, and William Hanna even made one final cartoon for the What A Cartoon show. It's definitely a case of quantity over quality, but throughout those decades it was hard just finding work at all.
The people at Termite Terrace (WB) and Disney also made extremely well done cartoons the time. My personal favorites are the Warner shorts, the writing in those sparkles, even today.
(Might I ask everyone to spare a thought for oneswellfoop, not seen since February 2021? It's starting to look like he actually has probably passed away this time. Some of us at MST Club has tried to contact the assisted living facility he was at but have gotten ambiguous responses as to whether he's there, or still with us, or whatever is happening. He would have loved this thread.)
posted by JHarris at 11:20 AM on March 5, 2023 [19 favorites]
To be fair, H-B, even in their TV phase, made a number of cartoons that are beloved today too. The original incarnations of Huckleberry Hound, Yogi Bear, and others weren't that well animated, but at that point it was the best they could do under the extreme financial strictures they were under. It must have galled them at first, after having made such lavish cartoons at MGM, to have to resort to limited animation, but in retrospect it's part of why we remember them having such long careers. Hanna and Barbera made it into the Cartoon Network era, and William Hanna even made one final cartoon for the What A Cartoon show. It's definitely a case of quantity over quality, but throughout those decades it was hard just finding work at all.
The people at Termite Terrace (WB) and Disney also made extremely well done cartoons the time. My personal favorites are the Warner shorts, the writing in those sparkles, even today.
(Might I ask everyone to spare a thought for oneswellfoop, not seen since February 2021? It's starting to look like he actually has probably passed away this time. Some of us at MST Club has tried to contact the assisted living facility he was at but have gotten ambiguous responses as to whether he's there, or still with us, or whatever is happening. He would have loved this thread.)
posted by JHarris at 11:20 AM on March 5, 2023 [19 favorites]
Why no mention of the Snorks? WHY NO MENTION OF THE SNORKS???!!!
The video seems mostly focused on young-Boomer/elder-Gen-X stuff, rather than the young-Xer/elder-Millennial post-Reagan half-hour toy commercial kind of cartoons.
This is probably a you-can't-go-home-again kind of thing, but I don't recall the Snorks as being specifically that bad. While I'm pretty sure the pitch was just some coked-up toy executive saying 'underwater Smurfs' (checks Wikipedia--eh, kind of), the way I remember the show was... fine?
Better than the Monchichis, anyway.
posted by box at 11:27 AM on March 5, 2023
The video seems mostly focused on young-Boomer/elder-Gen-X stuff, rather than the young-Xer/elder-Millennial post-Reagan half-hour toy commercial kind of cartoons.
This is probably a you-can't-go-home-again kind of thing, but I don't recall the Snorks as being specifically that bad. While I'm pretty sure the pitch was just some coked-up toy executive saying 'underwater Smurfs' (checks Wikipedia--eh, kind of), the way I remember the show was... fine?
Better than the Monchichis, anyway.
posted by box at 11:27 AM on March 5, 2023
There's some bad Gen-Z stuff out there too. Like how do you explain Pecola?
posted by JoeZydeco at 12:13 PM on March 5, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by JoeZydeco at 12:13 PM on March 5, 2023 [1 favorite]
TIL about those CDs. Of course there are rips of them out there.
There was a Warner Bros. sound effects collection, too. I think it was a licensed release, though the copy of it I found at some point, not so much.
posted by atoxyl at 12:14 PM on March 5, 2023 [1 favorite]
There was a Warner Bros. sound effects collection, too. I think it was a licensed release, though the copy of it I found at some point, not so much.
posted by atoxyl at 12:14 PM on March 5, 2023 [1 favorite]
Marketers seem to have concluded sometime in the 70s that humans 2 to 12 years old are basically catatonic and that therefore everything designed for them must be VERY SIMPLE and VERY LOUD.
As I was rewatching and listening to - well, being assaulted by - these soundtracks I couldn't help but notice the parallels between these really bad cartoons and the weird, dark world of YouTube kids videos where it's like randomly or programatically generated or otherwise very badly produced nonsensical content.
You know, the sort of "know your colors" content that looks vaguely educational and kid friendly but then has a bunch of weird, dark and deeply unsettling stuff in it including adult topics of violence, pregnancy, drug use and more.
But when comparing that weird/dark YouTube content aimed at kids to these old low budget cartoons and I really couldn't help but notice that the production values and soundtracks were uncomfortably close to each other and basically have the same exact goals: Quick, cheap content to engage kids and keep them engaged for ad revenue.
While the vintage low budget cartoons don't have the same levels of unsettling adult themes that the YouTube variations do, they're also chock full of pointless cartoon violence and have a lot of the same audio aesthetics of a total cacophony of audio library sound effects and they're just about as mind-numbingly dumb as the kinds of YouTube videos I'm comparing them to.
Honestly I'm kind of surprised no one ever made a kid's cartoon that was just blocks of stock library animations of completely plot-free cartoon violence, explosions, flashing lights and colors and an over the top audio foley/FX soundtrack of loud noises.
posted by loquacious at 12:21 PM on March 5, 2023 [5 favorites]
As I was rewatching and listening to - well, being assaulted by - these soundtracks I couldn't help but notice the parallels between these really bad cartoons and the weird, dark world of YouTube kids videos where it's like randomly or programatically generated or otherwise very badly produced nonsensical content.
You know, the sort of "know your colors" content that looks vaguely educational and kid friendly but then has a bunch of weird, dark and deeply unsettling stuff in it including adult topics of violence, pregnancy, drug use and more.
But when comparing that weird/dark YouTube content aimed at kids to these old low budget cartoons and I really couldn't help but notice that the production values and soundtracks were uncomfortably close to each other and basically have the same exact goals: Quick, cheap content to engage kids and keep them engaged for ad revenue.
While the vintage low budget cartoons don't have the same levels of unsettling adult themes that the YouTube variations do, they're also chock full of pointless cartoon violence and have a lot of the same audio aesthetics of a total cacophony of audio library sound effects and they're just about as mind-numbingly dumb as the kinds of YouTube videos I'm comparing them to.
Honestly I'm kind of surprised no one ever made a kid's cartoon that was just blocks of stock library animations of completely plot-free cartoon violence, explosions, flashing lights and colors and an over the top audio foley/FX soundtrack of loud noises.
posted by loquacious at 12:21 PM on March 5, 2023 [5 favorites]
I don't know why I didn't think of it until just now when JHarris just mentioned Huckleberry Hound, but I watched the Loony Tunes because I was casting about for something to replace Jellystone in my routine after watching all of them. If you'd like to laugh at a dumb-ass cartoon featuring all of your favorite Hanna-Barbera characters, Jellystone is a dumb-ass cartoon you will laugh at.
posted by ob1quixote at 12:29 PM on March 5, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by ob1quixote at 12:29 PM on March 5, 2023 [1 favorite]
There's some bad Gen-Z stuff out there too. Like how do you explain Pecola?
My hot take is that 3D ages much worse than 2D, so there’s gonna be a lot of OMG takes about kids shows for this generation too
posted by Going To Maine at 12:38 PM on March 5, 2023 [3 favorites]
My hot take is that 3D ages much worse than 2D, so there’s gonna be a lot of OMG takes about kids shows for this generation too
posted by Going To Maine at 12:38 PM on March 5, 2023 [3 favorites]
recently I learned about Laverne and Shirley in the Army
I'm impressed to learn that The Mork & Mindy/Laverne & Shirley/Fonz Hour featured voice acting from almost all of the stars of the prime time shows they were spun off from. Cindy Williams is really the only one missing. I remember the existence of this show along with the Punky Brewster one. However, I think I mostly tuned them out in favor of Bugs Bunny. It didn't matter if I'd seen the same shorts 40 times already--always opt for Bugs Bunny.
I did have a weak spot for the Hanna Barbera Godzilla, with ♫ Godzooky ♫.
posted by polecat at 12:52 PM on March 5, 2023 [4 favorites]
I'm impressed to learn that The Mork & Mindy/Laverne & Shirley/Fonz Hour featured voice acting from almost all of the stars of the prime time shows they were spun off from. Cindy Williams is really the only one missing. I remember the existence of this show along with the Punky Brewster one. However, I think I mostly tuned them out in favor of Bugs Bunny. It didn't matter if I'd seen the same shorts 40 times already--always opt for Bugs Bunny.
I did have a weak spot for the Hanna Barbera Godzilla, with ♫ Godzooky ♫.
posted by polecat at 12:52 PM on March 5, 2023 [4 favorites]
What's kinda funny is how Adult Swim took those low-budget cartoons and remixed them into even lower-budget shorts that relied on absurdity and nostalgia. From this interview:
... Adult Swim wanted to put things on TV that cost $5 and the only way to do that was different versions of What’s Up, Tiger Lily, the old Woody Allen movie. But we took it to the extreme on Sealab where we did a whole sit-com ... my budget for the first season of Sealab was $33,000 an episode. And that had to pay for the actors, the mix, the whatever, the everything. So, you couldn’t do any new drawings. You had to repurpose old footage. But that was Mike’s edict. He didn’t want to pay. He wanted to be counterculture and he thought you should be able to figure a way out of your money hole.
posted by credulous at 3:58 PM on March 5, 2023 [7 favorites]
... Adult Swim wanted to put things on TV that cost $5 and the only way to do that was different versions of What’s Up, Tiger Lily, the old Woody Allen movie. But we took it to the extreme on Sealab where we did a whole sit-com ... my budget for the first season of Sealab was $33,000 an episode. And that had to pay for the actors, the mix, the whatever, the everything. So, you couldn’t do any new drawings. You had to repurpose old footage. But that was Mike’s edict. He didn’t want to pay. He wanted to be counterculture and he thought you should be able to figure a way out of your money hole.
posted by credulous at 3:58 PM on March 5, 2023 [7 favorites]
No, no you did not. Though he wasn't an alien, but a magical creature who got trapped on her plane of existence. That was another bad cartoon that got the Robot Chicken treatment, though that one was rather mean-spirited given it used gigantomastia as a gag, which was particularly tasteless given the show's star's fight with the condition.
Many Robot Chicken things are tasteless, but it's worth noting that Soleil Moon Frye reprised her role as Punky Brewster for Robot Chicken's _No Need For Glomer_ sketch.
posted by mikelieman at 5:24 PM on March 5, 2023 [3 favorites]
Many Robot Chicken things are tasteless, but it's worth noting that Soleil Moon Frye reprised her role as Punky Brewster for Robot Chicken's _No Need For Glomer_ sketch.
posted by mikelieman at 5:24 PM on March 5, 2023 [3 favorites]
Just have to mention The Mighty Heroes, a truly bad cartoon from '66-67 and syndicated later, created by Ralph Bakshi, of all people. Strongman, Ropeman, Tornadoman, Cuckooman and Diaperman, a little baby with a deep froggy adult voice. You can find episodes on Youtube but don't bother; they're awful. For years I thought I'd dreamed it as a kid and then found out it was all terribly, terribly real.
posted by mediareport at 7:27 PM on March 5, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by mediareport at 7:27 PM on March 5, 2023 [2 favorites]
The problem with coming to these threads late is one reads down the list and thinks "Ooo! Oooo! I remembered xxxx and will mention it when I get to the bottom and earn Internet Points!" and the spark slowly dies behind your eyes as all the stuff you thought of gets mentioned as you go.
HOWEVER. Nobody seems to have mentioned Rocket Robin Hood. I once read the autobiography of Carole Pope, vocalist from Rough Trade (High School Confidential) who when she first moved away from home did work at the studio that produced Rocket Robin Hood, where they were basically just grabbing people off the street and paying them a pittance to do the cel animation. Unsurprisingly, they were all on a LOT of drugs.
Reading all this makes me remember viscerally that I used to watch so much of this crap on saturday mornings with a certain stubbornness. Like, I just sat there and tolerated it even though in the back of my mind i knew it was dreadful, because saturday morning cartoons are just what you did. If I would wake up early enough the day started with Rankin-Bass "The New Adventures of Pinocchio", a cartoon version of the Wizard of Oz that I still recall the opening Jingle for, and a black and white thing that was a guy making line drawings, that opened with his face in an ornate oval frame. I have never been able to reconstruct what the heck that last one was.
posted by hearthpig at 5:29 AM on March 6, 2023 [7 favorites]
HOWEVER. Nobody seems to have mentioned Rocket Robin Hood. I once read the autobiography of Carole Pope, vocalist from Rough Trade (High School Confidential) who when she first moved away from home did work at the studio that produced Rocket Robin Hood, where they were basically just grabbing people off the street and paying them a pittance to do the cel animation. Unsurprisingly, they were all on a LOT of drugs.
Reading all this makes me remember viscerally that I used to watch so much of this crap on saturday mornings with a certain stubbornness. Like, I just sat there and tolerated it even though in the back of my mind i knew it was dreadful, because saturday morning cartoons are just what you did. If I would wake up early enough the day started with Rankin-Bass "The New Adventures of Pinocchio", a cartoon version of the Wizard of Oz that I still recall the opening Jingle for, and a black and white thing that was a guy making line drawings, that opened with his face in an ornate oval frame. I have never been able to reconstruct what the heck that last one was.
posted by hearthpig at 5:29 AM on March 6, 2023 [7 favorites]
Oh, you did not just --
The Mighty Heroes were the undisputed KINGS of the early cartoon superhero team. KINGS. I mean, if you were about to take a lickin' and you couldn't get Super Chicken, who else were you gonna call? Mighty Mightor? Sinbad Jr.? The Super 6? Batfink? The Galaxy Trio? The Space Kidettes? Courageous Cat and Minute Mouse? Captain America hurling his mighty shieeeeeeeld?
Those fireworks in the sky started blazing and the hearts of America's youth filled with good cheer. Yes, even when we knew Cuckoo-Man was on his way.
posted by delfin at 5:40 AM on March 6, 2023 [4 favorites]
The Mighty Heroes were the undisputed KINGS of the early cartoon superhero team. KINGS. I mean, if you were about to take a lickin' and you couldn't get Super Chicken, who else were you gonna call? Mighty Mightor? Sinbad Jr.? The Super 6? Batfink? The Galaxy Trio? The Space Kidettes? Courageous Cat and Minute Mouse? Captain America hurling his mighty shieeeeeeeld?
Those fireworks in the sky started blazing and the hearts of America's youth filled with good cheer. Yes, even when we knew Cuckoo-Man was on his way.
posted by delfin at 5:40 AM on March 6, 2023 [4 favorites]
since they couldn't put money they didn't have into the animation, the writing had to carry the day. While it could wildly vary, it's worth noting that all the H-B properties people most fondly remember tend to be the most tightly written.
I think the better written Hanna-Barbera properties stand out because of the writing but overall the writing doesn't make up for the cheap animation in the same way that it does for Jay Ward cartoons. The animation in Rocky and Bullwinkle is way, way simpler than a lot of H-B's television output, but no one snarks about its frequent off-model characters, out of proportion backgrounds, and limited movement because that would be missing the point.
posted by RonButNotStupid at 5:42 AM on March 6, 2023 [3 favorites]
I think the better written Hanna-Barbera properties stand out because of the writing but overall the writing doesn't make up for the cheap animation in the same way that it does for Jay Ward cartoons. The animation in Rocky and Bullwinkle is way, way simpler than a lot of H-B's television output, but no one snarks about its frequent off-model characters, out of proportion backgrounds, and limited movement because that would be missing the point.
posted by RonButNotStupid at 5:42 AM on March 6, 2023 [3 favorites]
hearthpig, for the hilariousness and the irresistible mystery of the above, I award you all my remaining Internet Points. The impudence, the sheer perversity of calling it the Adventures of Pinocchio when it was the Wizard of Oz! And I must know what that line drawings thing was. (It was not a Harold and the Purple Crayon joint, right? Because that would've been purple and white.)
posted by Don Pepino at 5:43 AM on March 6, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by Don Pepino at 5:43 AM on March 6, 2023 [1 favorite]
And speaking of the Super 6, people forget DePatie-Freleng's contributions to animated mayhem. They were something of a distant third behind Hanna-Barbera and Filmation. but rode their signature characters (the Pink Panther, the Inspector) and the voices of Arte Johnson, Rip Taylor and John Byner to occasional sparks of greatness. The Tijuana/Texas Toads, the Ant and the Aardvark, Misterjaw, roller-skating Wacky Races in Bailey's Comets, and Tyrone and Gladys from Laugh-In sharing a bill with a Charlie Chaplinesque hobo cat had their moments in the sun.
posted by delfin at 5:49 AM on March 6, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by delfin at 5:49 AM on March 6, 2023 [2 favorites]
Adjacent - but people might also like What RUINED Hanna-Barbera? from SaberSpark
posted by rongorongo at 6:12 AM on March 6, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by rongorongo at 6:12 AM on March 6, 2023 [1 favorite]
don pepino I was unclear, the Pinocchio and the WOZ were two separate things. The first was stop motion 3d and the second was low rent washed out cel animation. (The tin man was called Rusty). And no the line art thing wasn't Harold and the Purple Crayon.
posted by hearthpig at 6:23 AM on March 6, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by hearthpig at 6:23 AM on March 6, 2023 [2 favorites]
I love the conversation in this thread! This is what Metafilter is about to me.
posted by JHarris at 7:05 AM on March 6, 2023 [6 favorites]
posted by JHarris at 7:05 AM on March 6, 2023 [6 favorites]
Definitely, early Tom and Jerry was great animation. It wasn't until later post Chuck Jones era that it became crap.
The animation of Tom & Jerry might have been fine, but they didn't even do the 'Tom shot first, and Jerry is just defending himself' thing that made Bugs Bunny endearing, and not just a bully. Jerry would occasionally just go beat on Tom for fun. In my opinion, good animation doesn't make up for a terrible cartoon. Though I will say that I enjoyed the squiggle vision of Home Movies, so I rate story so much higher than "frequent off-model characters, out of proportion backgrounds, and limited movement ".
posted by The_Vegetables at 7:35 AM on March 6, 2023
The animation of Tom & Jerry might have been fine, but they didn't even do the 'Tom shot first, and Jerry is just defending himself' thing that made Bugs Bunny endearing, and not just a bully. Jerry would occasionally just go beat on Tom for fun. In my opinion, good animation doesn't make up for a terrible cartoon. Though I will say that I enjoyed the squiggle vision of Home Movies, so I rate story so much higher than "frequent off-model characters, out of proportion backgrounds, and limited movement ".
posted by The_Vegetables at 7:35 AM on March 6, 2023
The Mighty Heroes were the undisputed KINGS of the early cartoon superhero team. KINGS.
Well shit now you've forced my hand. I admit a youthful part of me feels fondness for the memories of Rope Man and Diaper Man - though brutal honesty demands I probably related most to Cuckoo Man - but for anyone who needs a direct injection, here's an episode for you, full of ridiculous late 1960s anti-Asian stereotypes and truly awful drawing, editing, narration and everything else that makes up a cartoon. The nostalgia junkie in me is sad to report none of it holds up to even the slightest animation scrutiny today.
posted by mediareport at 9:11 AM on March 6, 2023 [1 favorite]
Well shit now you've forced my hand. I admit a youthful part of me feels fondness for the memories of Rope Man and Diaper Man - though brutal honesty demands I probably related most to Cuckoo Man - but for anyone who needs a direct injection, here's an episode for you, full of ridiculous late 1960s anti-Asian stereotypes and truly awful drawing, editing, narration and everything else that makes up a cartoon. The nostalgia junkie in me is sad to report none of it holds up to even the slightest animation scrutiny today.
posted by mediareport at 9:11 AM on March 6, 2023 [1 favorite]
Is that a truly hideous Asian stereotype in that episode? Why, yes, it absolutely is, 100% agreement there.
We could, of course, discuss whether that style of stereotype was endemic in the cartoon/comic world of the time (there are plenty of contemporary examples I could point out), but It would be something of a derail. If that alone was enough to sour you on the series, I won't attempt to persuade you otherwise, but in terms of 1960s animation standards, I have no idea where you're seeing that the production levels were execrable.
posted by delfin at 9:35 AM on March 6, 2023
We could, of course, discuss whether that style of stereotype was endemic in the cartoon/comic world of the time (there are plenty of contemporary examples I could point out), but It would be something of a derail. If that alone was enough to sour you on the series, I won't attempt to persuade you otherwise, but in terms of 1960s animation standards, I have no idea where you're seeing that the production levels were execrable.
posted by delfin at 9:35 AM on March 6, 2023
Oh my goodness. There are *so* many examples of better animation in the late 1960s; examples that make clear The Mighty Heroes were the worst kind of slap-dash cartoons, worthy of inclusion in any Worst Cartoons Ever compilation, certainly at least as bad as the Wonder Wheels and Rickety Rocket clips discussed in the post's main link.
If you don't already agree with that, I don't know what else to say that might convince you.
posted by mediareport at 9:47 AM on March 6, 2023 [1 favorite]
If you don't already agree with that, I don't know what else to say that might convince you.
posted by mediareport at 9:47 AM on March 6, 2023 [1 favorite]
Super Chicken is my second favorite Batman after Adam West.
There's an episode of Darkwing Duck where he stoically says to Launchpad "Like the chicken always said: You knew the job was dangerous when you took it" and that completely blew my kid brain because my Mom had found Super Chicken on VHS and I thought I was the only kid in the world that had seen it.
I've never heard of the Mighty Heroes before today, but comparing it to Super Chicken which debuted just a year later (1967) and I think Mighty Heroes really comes up lacking in animation, writing, and content.
posted by RonButNotStupid at 9:52 AM on March 6, 2023 [4 favorites]
There's an episode of Darkwing Duck where he stoically says to Launchpad "Like the chicken always said: You knew the job was dangerous when you took it" and that completely blew my kid brain because my Mom had found Super Chicken on VHS and I thought I was the only kid in the world that had seen it.
I've never heard of the Mighty Heroes before today, but comparing it to Super Chicken which debuted just a year later (1967) and I think Mighty Heroes really comes up lacking in animation, writing, and content.
posted by RonButNotStupid at 9:52 AM on March 6, 2023 [4 favorites]
Re: The Mighty Heroes--
The Asian stereotype in that is really bad, but it was a different time, and was really endemic then. Giving a Chinese character a goofy voice and buck teeth seemed almost mandatory in popular culture at that time. The show has already become very obscure because of things like that. It's only the second time I've heard of it ever.
To speak concerning the whole show, I mean it's not what I'd call good, but there's an ambition there. They're trying to set up running gags across episodes, shots pay off visually even when the cost cutting suggests they shouldn't, there's multiple perspectives instead of the Hanna-Barbera standard side view, some single gags are composed of several shots, and the characters weren't designed economically, but have character. I kind of admire it? They're reaching beyond their grasp. You can see that Ralph Bakshi was an up-and-comer.
posted by JHarris at 11:35 AM on March 6, 2023 [2 favorites]
The Asian stereotype in that is really bad, but it was a different time, and was really endemic then. Giving a Chinese character a goofy voice and buck teeth seemed almost mandatory in popular culture at that time. The show has already become very obscure because of things like that. It's only the second time I've heard of it ever.
To speak concerning the whole show, I mean it's not what I'd call good, but there's an ambition there. They're trying to set up running gags across episodes, shots pay off visually even when the cost cutting suggests they shouldn't, there's multiple perspectives instead of the Hanna-Barbera standard side view, some single gags are composed of several shots, and the characters weren't designed economically, but have character. I kind of admire it? They're reaching beyond their grasp. You can see that Ralph Bakshi was an up-and-comer.
posted by JHarris at 11:35 AM on March 6, 2023 [2 favorites]
If our local stations matched up with the schedules Wikipedia records (they didn’t always) it would have probably been Thundarr the Barbarian, which probably doesn’t hold up much better despite a bunch of Kirby/Toth designs.
From the relatively little that I've seen of it, it does; in addition to Kirby and Toth, it was created by Steve Gerber and other comics writers worked on it.
I really enjoyed Thundarr as an eight-year-old, due to the weird mash-up of post-apocalyptic landscapes, sorcery and barbarian brawling. I was thrilled to discover that the “Den of the Sleeping Demon” (Dailymotion video) episode is set in San Jose, CA. An evil warlord is terrorizing the glider people (maybe a nod to San Jose history), in a quest to awaken a “demon” hibernating in a ruined West Valley Hospital. The “demon” is really a hibernating genetic hybrid reanimated using an ancient medical textbook. The creature looks like a griffin , and it battles Thundarr until it is sealed in a cave.
To me, the height of mid-80’s American cartoons was during a period of collaboration between American and Japanese animation production companies.
Bionic Six features a blended family of six, led by two scientists, their two biological children, an adopted Black son and an Asian-American foster son. They are given bionic enhancements after an exposure to radiation during an alien invasion.
It doesn’t dodge all pitfalls (guess which son is named Karate-1?), but the teenage black son is a scholarly, bookish sort and Mom’s a marine biologist. The animation is great, the writing and character relationships have some sophistication and continuity. I fondly recall a two-parter where the main villain takes over the world with a mind-control device and imprisons the heroes; the villain is immediately bogged down in global bureaucracy. The team’s scientific mentor avoids the mind control and teams up with a few previously established anti-heroes (including a well-rounded visually-impaired vigilante named Perceptor) and a robotic rock band to defeat Dr. Scarab. Theme Song!
Adventures of the Galaxy Rangers features late 21st century interplanetary sheriffs with brain implants facing cosmic menaces. Featuring a leader with a cybernetic arm, a psychic, a technology whiz and a laconic Wolverine-type shapeshifter with a past (my favorite). It’s got excellent animation, including some very early CGI used for AI lab assistant characters. The writing includes some continuity, character deaths and some endings with mixed or partial victories for our heroes. Theme song!
posted by JDC8 at 11:43 AM on March 6, 2023 [1 favorite]
From the relatively little that I've seen of it, it does; in addition to Kirby and Toth, it was created by Steve Gerber and other comics writers worked on it.
I really enjoyed Thundarr as an eight-year-old, due to the weird mash-up of post-apocalyptic landscapes, sorcery and barbarian brawling. I was thrilled to discover that the “Den of the Sleeping Demon” (Dailymotion video) episode is set in San Jose, CA. An evil warlord is terrorizing the glider people (maybe a nod to San Jose history), in a quest to awaken a “demon” hibernating in a ruined West Valley Hospital. The “demon” is really a hibernating genetic hybrid reanimated using an ancient medical textbook. The creature looks like a griffin , and it battles Thundarr until it is sealed in a cave.
To me, the height of mid-80’s American cartoons was during a period of collaboration between American and Japanese animation production companies.
Bionic Six features a blended family of six, led by two scientists, their two biological children, an adopted Black son and an Asian-American foster son. They are given bionic enhancements after an exposure to radiation during an alien invasion.
It doesn’t dodge all pitfalls (guess which son is named Karate-1?), but the teenage black son is a scholarly, bookish sort and Mom’s a marine biologist. The animation is great, the writing and character relationships have some sophistication and continuity. I fondly recall a two-parter where the main villain takes over the world with a mind-control device and imprisons the heroes; the villain is immediately bogged down in global bureaucracy. The team’s scientific mentor avoids the mind control and teams up with a few previously established anti-heroes (including a well-rounded visually-impaired vigilante named Perceptor) and a robotic rock band to defeat Dr. Scarab. Theme Song!
Adventures of the Galaxy Rangers features late 21st century interplanetary sheriffs with brain implants facing cosmic menaces. Featuring a leader with a cybernetic arm, a psychic, a technology whiz and a laconic Wolverine-type shapeshifter with a past (my favorite). It’s got excellent animation, including some very early CGI used for AI lab assistant characters. The writing includes some continuity, character deaths and some endings with mixed or partial victories for our heroes. Theme song!
posted by JDC8 at 11:43 AM on March 6, 2023 [1 favorite]
I've never heard of the Mighty Heroes before today, but comparing it to Super Chicken which debuted just a year later (1967) and I think Mighty Heroes really comes up lacking in animation, writing, and content.
It's pretty damned hard to compare Jay Ward Productions' anything to its contemporaries and even have it be a discussion.
posted by delfin at 11:52 AM on March 6, 2023 [2 favorites]
It's pretty damned hard to compare Jay Ward Productions' anything to its contemporaries and even have it be a discussion.
posted by delfin at 11:52 AM on March 6, 2023 [2 favorites]
The animation of Tom & Jerry might have been fine, but they didn't even do the 'Tom shot first, and Jerry is just defending himself' thing that made Bugs Bunny endearing, and not just a bully. Jerry would occasionally just go beat on Tom for fun.
In the early days, even Bugs Bunny would pick fights unprovoked. I think it was Chuck Jones who made sure to always make sure he was provoked before going to Crossdressing Cartoon War against their opponent. (It wasn't in the original text sure, but I'm fond of the interpretation that Bugs was non-binary.)
There are definitely problems sometimes with Tom & Jerry. I mean, if you remember the stereotypical African American housekeeper character, depending on when you remember her from, she might have been even a much more egregious stereotype originally! She was mostly a factor in early cartoons, and nowadays is almost always overdubbed. Fortunately for the dubbers (and, given her portrayal, our sensibilities) her face is never shown.
But while I can't argue that you should like something that you don't, for liking something is not always logical, there is a lot more of worth, I'd say, in Tom & Jerry than bad. It was an age when cartoons could take their time with pacing, and characters could afford to pause and react, and yet still somehow fit a whole cartoon's worth of gags into seven minutes. Where whole cartoons could be animated on the 1s, and not reuse drawings, and always remain on-model. Where the cartoon could have a whole orchestral musical score arranged to match the action! Where gags could build and build and build across an entire cartoon, and would always pay off richly.
That these cartoons are now hoarded, often taken off of Youtube when they appear, and limited in their exposure is possibly the most terrible result of our absurd intellectual property scheme, and it doesn't lack for competition.
posted by JHarris at 11:56 AM on March 6, 2023 [3 favorites]
In the early days, even Bugs Bunny would pick fights unprovoked. I think it was Chuck Jones who made sure to always make sure he was provoked before going to Crossdressing Cartoon War against their opponent. (It wasn't in the original text sure, but I'm fond of the interpretation that Bugs was non-binary.)
There are definitely problems sometimes with Tom & Jerry. I mean, if you remember the stereotypical African American housekeeper character, depending on when you remember her from, she might have been even a much more egregious stereotype originally! She was mostly a factor in early cartoons, and nowadays is almost always overdubbed. Fortunately for the dubbers (and, given her portrayal, our sensibilities) her face is never shown.
But while I can't argue that you should like something that you don't, for liking something is not always logical, there is a lot more of worth, I'd say, in Tom & Jerry than bad. It was an age when cartoons could take their time with pacing, and characters could afford to pause and react, and yet still somehow fit a whole cartoon's worth of gags into seven minutes. Where whole cartoons could be animated on the 1s, and not reuse drawings, and always remain on-model. Where the cartoon could have a whole orchestral musical score arranged to match the action! Where gags could build and build and build across an entire cartoon, and would always pay off richly.
That these cartoons are now hoarded, often taken off of Youtube when they appear, and limited in their exposure is possibly the most terrible result of our absurd intellectual property scheme, and it doesn't lack for competition.
posted by JHarris at 11:56 AM on March 6, 2023 [3 favorites]
While we're bringing out our favorites from the Saturday Morning/syndicated TV cartoon era:
A childhood/college friend was always fond of Mighty Orbots on SatAM, and later on The Adventures of Bucky O'Hare and ExoSquad. I am given to understand that these shows were all a cut above the average. He was a robot fanatic, and maybe predictably later on got into Warhammer 40K.
I always liked the original Muppet Babies, which had a good long run and much better writing than you'd expect. I have heard that other animators were kind of dismissive of it at the time (there's a whole episode of Taz-Mania, "Taz Babies," that mocks it), but it was better than it had to be--but it also used a lot of stock footage from popular movies to represent the young critters' imaginations, so it's probably a huge rights tangle to air now.
Then, of course, in the late 80s/early 90s Saturday Morning cartoons suddenly realized they could be good again, and before the coming annihilation we got some true classics. njohnson23 mentioned several in passing, but seems to have overlooked the best of them all, The Tick. Of all the things I rue about the death of the early, enthusiast web, where people would create elaborate sites just out of the sheer joy of something, is not hearing about The Tick everywhere anymore. It was so so good. So please, take a few minutes to enjoy The Ultimate Tick Fansite still online, still with its webring code at the bottom of the page, yet sadly not updated to reflect the two-season Amazon Prime revival. THIS is what the web should be about, dammit.
posted by JHarris at 12:12 PM on March 6, 2023 [2 favorites]
A childhood/college friend was always fond of Mighty Orbots on SatAM, and later on The Adventures of Bucky O'Hare and ExoSquad. I am given to understand that these shows were all a cut above the average. He was a robot fanatic, and maybe predictably later on got into Warhammer 40K.
I always liked the original Muppet Babies, which had a good long run and much better writing than you'd expect. I have heard that other animators were kind of dismissive of it at the time (there's a whole episode of Taz-Mania, "Taz Babies," that mocks it), but it was better than it had to be--but it also used a lot of stock footage from popular movies to represent the young critters' imaginations, so it's probably a huge rights tangle to air now.
Then, of course, in the late 80s/early 90s Saturday Morning cartoons suddenly realized they could be good again, and before the coming annihilation we got some true classics. njohnson23 mentioned several in passing, but seems to have overlooked the best of them all, The Tick. Of all the things I rue about the death of the early, enthusiast web, where people would create elaborate sites just out of the sheer joy of something, is not hearing about The Tick everywhere anymore. It was so so good. So please, take a few minutes to enjoy The Ultimate Tick Fansite still online, still with its webring code at the bottom of the page, yet sadly not updated to reflect the two-season Amazon Prime revival. THIS is what the web should be about, dammit.
posted by JHarris at 12:12 PM on March 6, 2023 [2 favorites]
I missed The Tick when it first aired, but seeing it as an adult I'm amazed by how nonchalantly mature it is.
There are shows like Animaiacs that lean very hard into the "this can also be enjoyed by adults" category by dropping lots of pop culture and current events references and being as obliquely risque as S&P will let them get away with. That's OK, but it can get tiring after a while.
The Tick comes at it from the other direction. It earns it's crossover appeal by including a lot of "boring" adult themes like being alienated from your job, having to live with a roommate, and worrying about living expenses. I can't really name another non-primetime cartoon that's as boringly-mature (the main characters frequent a diner and lots of plots revolve around a character having to do some much-needed adulting). I've heard Regular Show is in this same vein, but I haven't seen it yet.
posted by RonButNotStupid at 12:43 PM on March 6, 2023 [4 favorites]
There are shows like Animaiacs that lean very hard into the "this can also be enjoyed by adults" category by dropping lots of pop culture and current events references and being as obliquely risque as S&P will let them get away with. That's OK, but it can get tiring after a while.
The Tick comes at it from the other direction. It earns it's crossover appeal by including a lot of "boring" adult themes like being alienated from your job, having to live with a roommate, and worrying about living expenses. I can't really name another non-primetime cartoon that's as boringly-mature (the main characters frequent a diner and lots of plots revolve around a character having to do some much-needed adulting). I've heard Regular Show is in this same vein, but I haven't seen it yet.
posted by RonButNotStupid at 12:43 PM on March 6, 2023 [4 favorites]
Nobody seems to have mentioned Rocket Robin Hood.
I remember Rocket Robin Hood. The thing I remember most about it is that there was one particularly psychedelic episode that was (other than the main characters) EXACTLY the same as an episode of the 1967 Spider-Man cartoon in which Spidey fought his way through Mysterio's illusions. Pre-teen me found this a most fascinating state of affairs.
posted by Devoidoid at 1:05 PM on March 6, 2023 [2 favorites]
I remember Rocket Robin Hood. The thing I remember most about it is that there was one particularly psychedelic episode that was (other than the main characters) EXACTLY the same as an episode of the 1967 Spider-Man cartoon in which Spidey fought his way through Mysterio's illusions. Pre-teen me found this a most fascinating state of affairs.
posted by Devoidoid at 1:05 PM on March 6, 2023 [2 favorites]
I've heard Regular Show is in this same vein, but I haven't seen it yet.
Regular Show is sort of a cross - the characters wind up having wacky hijinks from episode to episode, but the longer character arcs are about things like growing up, romantic and platonic relationships, abuse and trauma, grief, finding one's way - the show is not afraid to go deep or dark. And honestly, the show's concluding montage done to "Heroes", in which the characters honor a sacrifice by living their best lives, is incredibly moving.
posted by NoxAeternum at 1:15 PM on March 6, 2023 [4 favorites]
Regular Show is sort of a cross - the characters wind up having wacky hijinks from episode to episode, but the longer character arcs are about things like growing up, romantic and platonic relationships, abuse and trauma, grief, finding one's way - the show is not afraid to go deep or dark. And honestly, the show's concluding montage done to "Heroes", in which the characters honor a sacrifice by living their best lives, is incredibly moving.
posted by NoxAeternum at 1:15 PM on March 6, 2023 [4 favorites]
And the talking ape from Ark II used to give me nightmares.
There's an episode of Ark II where Adam (the talking chimp) is following some piece of hovering technology. While doing this he says "It look like balloon to Adam." I saw this once, in an original airing. Couldn't have been later than 1979, which means at the most I was six. Do I have any other distinct memories from that time? I do not. But probably once a month, in a quiet reflective moment, when my worried brain has finally settled down, I'll think "It look like balloon to Adam." 30 years from now I'll probably have deep dementia and will almost never speak. But once a month I'll say "It look like balloon to Adam."
posted by Lentrohamsanin at 1:55 PM on March 6, 2023 [8 favorites]
There's an episode of Ark II where Adam (the talking chimp) is following some piece of hovering technology. While doing this he says "It look like balloon to Adam." I saw this once, in an original airing. Couldn't have been later than 1979, which means at the most I was six. Do I have any other distinct memories from that time? I do not. But probably once a month, in a quiet reflective moment, when my worried brain has finally settled down, I'll think "It look like balloon to Adam." 30 years from now I'll probably have deep dementia and will almost never speak. But once a month I'll say "It look like balloon to Adam."
posted by Lentrohamsanin at 1:55 PM on March 6, 2023 [8 favorites]
Huh, there were only 15 eps of Ark II and they're all on YouTube. Maybe I could find that one and finally exorcise that stupid line.
posted by Lentrohamsanin at 1:58 PM on March 6, 2023 [5 favorites]
posted by Lentrohamsanin at 1:58 PM on March 6, 2023 [5 favorites]
→
aagh, ya bastard - now I've got the theme song to "Baggy Pants and The Misfits" stuck in my head: "Who's the hobo everyone knows ..."
One thing about seeing these cartoons in the UK: apart from the original (non-superhero) Harlem Globetrotters cartoon, I don't think we got any cartoons with Black characters at all.
posted by scruss at 3:34 PM on March 6, 2023 [1 favorite]
Tyrone and Gladys from Laugh-In sharing a bill with a Charlie Chaplinesque hobo cat
aagh, ya bastard - now I've got the theme song to "Baggy Pants and The Misfits" stuck in my head: "Who's the hobo everyone knows ..."
One thing about seeing these cartoons in the UK: apart from the original (non-superhero) Harlem Globetrotters cartoon, I don't think we got any cartoons with Black characters at all.
posted by scruss at 3:34 PM on March 6, 2023 [1 favorite]
Adjacent - but people might also like What RUINED Hanna-Barbera? yt from SaberSpark
I seriously disagree with his thesis - getting knocked off their "throne" was actually healthy, because the dominance of H-B in the 70s where they were producing the majority of American television animation was a major factor in why the majority of what they were producing was...(points to the thread.)
So, what happened? Well, a few things. The first is the loosening (well, gutting) of E/I regulations on children's television in the early 80s meant that money was available for animation in a way it wasn't prior, since you could now make a show with merchandising tie-ins. While this resulted in a lot of schlock (there's a reason I refer to this era as the Toyetic Era,) it got more studios into the game. One of the more notable of those was when two of the more senior H-B animators - Joe Ruby and Ken Spears, the duo responsible for Scooby-Doo - decide to take a page from their bosses and found their own animation studio. As a result, the Ruby-Spears title card would become just as much a staple of American animation in the 80s as the H-B "star" card of the era. (They would also produce schlock as well - the aforementioned TurboTeen and Rubik cartoons were Ruby-Spears productions.) There's also greater interest in foreign animation - not just importation of anime, but also European animation as well (with the most notable example here being DiC, the Luxembourg-American collaboration that was another major player in 80s and 90s Western animation.)
But the big change was a simple one: the two 900 lb. gorillas of American animation - Disney and Warner - get into TV animation in the 80s and 90s. The House of Mouse was the first - after a hostile takeover attempt in the early 80s wakes Disney leadership up from the doldrums they had been in since Walt's death over a decade ago, they decide to bring in new blood at the top, poaching from Paramount their head - Michael Eisner. While Eisner's tenure at Disney was...controversial, to put it mildly, he did do a lot to right the Disney ship in the 80s. And one of those decisions was to get Disney into TV animation - this started with new properties made for TV such as Wuzzles and Adventures of the Gummi Bears, before testing the waters of using Disney characters with what was (at the time) a calculated risk - DuckTales. The success of the show would get Disney into TV animation in a serious way, leading to the Disney Afternoon block and then animation on Disney's constellation of cable channels.
Warner is a bit more complicated - after Steven Spielberg gets the animation bug courtesy of former Disney animator and rebel Don Bluth, whom he worked with to create An American Tail - his production company, Amblin works with Warner to rebuild their animation division with their first joint project, a re-imagining of the Looney Tunes characters called Tiny Toon Adventures. The success of the show got Warner Animation back into the TV animation game, leading to studio head Jean MacCurdy to put out a call for ideas for an animated spinoff from the successful 1989 Batman movie - which would lead to Batman: The Animated Series and from there the DCAU.
Thus, Hanna-Barbera goes from being a big fish in a small pond to a small fish in a big pond - and with their acquisition by Turner Media, a small fish inside of a bigger fish. But with fewer projects in their pipeline, this means they could put more resources and supervision into each. Thus it's not surprising that their productions improve in quality in the 80s and 90s. In addition, H-B plants a flag for developing animation talent with the What A Cartoon Show, which launches the careers of a number of Western animators (most notably Seth MacFarlane and Gennedy Tartakovsky.)
So yeah - I seriously disagree with the "ruined" arguement.
(A final sidenote - when the Clinton Administration restored some E/I regulations, the effect was to kill off SatAM animation. This was more a nailing of the coffin, though, as SatAM had been in decline, and it was clear that the future of Western TV animation was weekday syndication and cable.)
posted by NoxAeternum at 11:30 PM on March 6, 2023 [7 favorites]
I seriously disagree with his thesis - getting knocked off their "throne" was actually healthy, because the dominance of H-B in the 70s where they were producing the majority of American television animation was a major factor in why the majority of what they were producing was...(points to the thread.)
So, what happened? Well, a few things. The first is the loosening (well, gutting) of E/I regulations on children's television in the early 80s meant that money was available for animation in a way it wasn't prior, since you could now make a show with merchandising tie-ins. While this resulted in a lot of schlock (there's a reason I refer to this era as the Toyetic Era,) it got more studios into the game. One of the more notable of those was when two of the more senior H-B animators - Joe Ruby and Ken Spears, the duo responsible for Scooby-Doo - decide to take a page from their bosses and found their own animation studio. As a result, the Ruby-Spears title card would become just as much a staple of American animation in the 80s as the H-B "star" card of the era. (They would also produce schlock as well - the aforementioned TurboTeen and Rubik cartoons were Ruby-Spears productions.) There's also greater interest in foreign animation - not just importation of anime, but also European animation as well (with the most notable example here being DiC, the Luxembourg-American collaboration that was another major player in 80s and 90s Western animation.)
But the big change was a simple one: the two 900 lb. gorillas of American animation - Disney and Warner - get into TV animation in the 80s and 90s. The House of Mouse was the first - after a hostile takeover attempt in the early 80s wakes Disney leadership up from the doldrums they had been in since Walt's death over a decade ago, they decide to bring in new blood at the top, poaching from Paramount their head - Michael Eisner. While Eisner's tenure at Disney was...controversial, to put it mildly, he did do a lot to right the Disney ship in the 80s. And one of those decisions was to get Disney into TV animation - this started with new properties made for TV such as Wuzzles and Adventures of the Gummi Bears, before testing the waters of using Disney characters with what was (at the time) a calculated risk - DuckTales. The success of the show would get Disney into TV animation in a serious way, leading to the Disney Afternoon block and then animation on Disney's constellation of cable channels.
Warner is a bit more complicated - after Steven Spielberg gets the animation bug courtesy of former Disney animator and rebel Don Bluth, whom he worked with to create An American Tail - his production company, Amblin works with Warner to rebuild their animation division with their first joint project, a re-imagining of the Looney Tunes characters called Tiny Toon Adventures. The success of the show got Warner Animation back into the TV animation game, leading to studio head Jean MacCurdy to put out a call for ideas for an animated spinoff from the successful 1989 Batman movie - which would lead to Batman: The Animated Series and from there the DCAU.
Thus, Hanna-Barbera goes from being a big fish in a small pond to a small fish in a big pond - and with their acquisition by Turner Media, a small fish inside of a bigger fish. But with fewer projects in their pipeline, this means they could put more resources and supervision into each. Thus it's not surprising that their productions improve in quality in the 80s and 90s. In addition, H-B plants a flag for developing animation talent with the What A Cartoon Show, which launches the careers of a number of Western animators (most notably Seth MacFarlane and Gennedy Tartakovsky.)
So yeah - I seriously disagree with the "ruined" arguement.
(A final sidenote - when the Clinton Administration restored some E/I regulations, the effect was to kill off SatAM animation. This was more a nailing of the coffin, though, as SatAM had been in decline, and it was clear that the future of Western TV animation was weekday syndication and cable.)
posted by NoxAeternum at 11:30 PM on March 6, 2023 [7 favorites]
The Iron Curtain Czech Tom & Jerry shorts are a wonderfully bizzare bit of animation history, though.
(Example episode) The production decision "Let's give this to the iron curtain era Czechs, lets ask them to do twice as much for the budget, and lets not care if it comes out a bit strange and a bit dark" - was pretty bold. Its a shame we never got a Jan Svankmajer version of Scooby Doo.
posted by rongorongo at 11:50 PM on March 6, 2023 [2 favorites]
(Example episode) The production decision "Let's give this to the iron curtain era Czechs, lets ask them to do twice as much for the budget, and lets not care if it comes out a bit strange and a bit dark" - was pretty bold. Its a shame we never got a Jan Svankmajer version of Scooby Doo.
posted by rongorongo at 11:50 PM on March 6, 2023 [2 favorites]
The production decision "Let's give this to the iron curtain era Czechs, lets ask them to do twice as much for the budget, and lets not care if it comes out a bit strange and a bit dark" - was pretty bold.
Not as much as you think - Czech animation has a respectable history, so it's not surprising that an enterprising producer would think of outsourcing to a Czech studio. Again, these shorts are bizarre, but they're also fascinating.
posted by NoxAeternum at 1:57 AM on March 7, 2023 [2 favorites]
Not as much as you think - Czech animation has a respectable history, so it's not surprising that an enterprising producer would think of outsourcing to a Czech studio. Again, these shorts are bizarre, but they're also fascinating.
posted by NoxAeternum at 1:57 AM on March 7, 2023 [2 favorites]
A childhood/college friend was always fond of Mighty Orbots on SatAM, and later on The Adventures of Bucky O'Hare and ExoSquad. I am given to understand that these shows were all a cut above the average.
I believe all of those shows had longer story arcs than was typical at the time. I only really watched Bucky O'Hare, but I remember it did frequently reference events from prior episodes and the last episode even wrapped up some plot threads that had been introduced in the first episode.
posted by RonButNotStupid at 7:24 AM on March 7, 2023 [1 favorite]
I believe all of those shows had longer story arcs than was typical at the time. I only really watched Bucky O'Hare, but I remember it did frequently reference events from prior episodes and the last episode even wrapped up some plot threads that had been introduced in the first episode.
posted by RonButNotStupid at 7:24 AM on March 7, 2023 [1 favorite]
They are. Most people tend to call the Gene Deitch Tom & Jerry cartoons bad, and I don't think they quite are? I mean, they do look bad put alongside the original Tom & Jerry cartoons, but nearly every other cartoon does. They have a weird sense about them. The audio design is the strangest part, the sound effects almost seem like they're underwater, in a way, with how they seem muted, disconnected from the action, and sometimes things you'd expect to be sounded aren't? Here, like this. (CW: a lot of cartoon violence.)
posted by JHarris at 7:30 AM on March 7, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by JHarris at 7:30 AM on March 7, 2023 [1 favorite]
Wow, that Clint Clobber dude has severe lead poisoning.
posted by seanmpuckett at 9:33 AM on March 7, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by seanmpuckett at 9:33 AM on March 7, 2023 [2 favorites]
Jerry would occasionally just go beat on Tom for fun.
And I can't help but note that this can mimic real life. I used to live with a partner with both pet rats and cats and when we first got the pet rats we were worried about the cats attacking the rats.
Nope, it was the other way around and the rats were constantly jumping all over the cats and chasing them around and nipping at the cats tails, and the cats wanted nothing to do with the rats when we let the rats have free roaming time.
And, well, basically anywhere a cat can climb up to hide an energetic rat can get to, which was kind of hilarious to watch.
posted by loquacious at 12:27 PM on March 7, 2023 [1 favorite]
And I can't help but note that this can mimic real life. I used to live with a partner with both pet rats and cats and when we first got the pet rats we were worried about the cats attacking the rats.
Nope, it was the other way around and the rats were constantly jumping all over the cats and chasing them around and nipping at the cats tails, and the cats wanted nothing to do with the rats when we let the rats have free roaming time.
And, well, basically anywhere a cat can climb up to hide an energetic rat can get to, which was kind of hilarious to watch.
posted by loquacious at 12:27 PM on March 7, 2023 [1 favorite]
I came for the Hair Bear Bunch and left disappointed.
posted by Twicketface at 1:23 PM on March 7, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by Twicketface at 1:23 PM on March 7, 2023 [2 favorites]
And the talking ape from Ark II used to give me nightmares.
I highly suggest, then, that you avoid ever, ever, looking-up episodes of Lancelot Link: Secret Chimp.
EVER.
posted by Thorzdad at 2:22 PM on March 7, 2023 [4 favorites]
I highly suggest, then, that you avoid ever, ever, looking-up episodes of Lancelot Link: Secret Chimp.
EVER.
posted by Thorzdad at 2:22 PM on March 7, 2023 [4 favorites]
Glad to see people are bringing up Rocket Robin Hood - as a kid I was fascinated (and educated) by how much repetition there was within and between episodes. A 25 minute cartoon might have I dunno, 10 minutes of recycled animation? Not to mention in most scenes, only the mouths move.
Maybe this show wasn't shown outside Canada or it would deservedly be in the consensus top five terrible cartoons of all times.
posted by Rumple at 3:00 PM on March 7, 2023 [1 favorite]
Maybe this show wasn't shown outside Canada or it would deservedly be in the consensus top five terrible cartoons of all times.
posted by Rumple at 3:00 PM on March 7, 2023 [1 favorite]
Maybe this show wasn't shown outside Canada or it would deservedly be in the consensus top five terrible cartoons of all times.
Oh we got Rocket Robin Hood and Mighty Hercules here in the states, though if memory serves the local UHF station ran them on Sunday mornings.
posted by Lentrohamsanin at 5:38 PM on March 7, 2023 [1 favorite]
Oh we got Rocket Robin Hood and Mighty Hercules here in the states, though if memory serves the local UHF station ran them on Sunday mornings.
posted by Lentrohamsanin at 5:38 PM on March 7, 2023 [1 favorite]
....No mention of Hong Kong Phooey?
Or the Laff-a-lympics?
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 8:08 AM on March 8, 2023 [5 favorites]
Or the Laff-a-lympics?
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 8:08 AM on March 8, 2023 [5 favorites]
I still love Hong Kong Phooey, though it is problematic in its hidden depiction of a black man (black actor voicing a dog) as blithely inept. Anyway, Scatman Crothers' delivery on all of his lines was just golden. But what I really love is that the white male sergeant is a pompous dipshit with no utility at all, and the woman receptionist is largely the person who keeps the precinct (such as it is) together. I'm not sure if the writers were intentionally indicting inept white men promoted far beyond their capabilities and while underpaid "secretarial" women were the lynchpins of institutional operations, or if they were just observing the truth of their era. Plus the absurd notion that reading a book is all you need to do to confer martial arts mastery or that martial arts alone and in-and-of itself is the solution to difficult problems.... also as I recall it's the cat who solves most of the problems, in a very cat-like way.
I just feel it was punching way above its weight in commentary.
posted by seanmpuckett at 8:21 AM on March 8, 2023 [4 favorites]
I just feel it was punching way above its weight in commentary.
posted by seanmpuckett at 8:21 AM on March 8, 2023 [4 favorites]
I'm not as convinced it was trying to comment on anything, but rather was capitalizing on the U.S.'s then-new craze for Hong Kong action movies. (Don't forget this was also when "ping-pong diplomacy" was going on, David Carradine's Kung Fu was on prime-time and just a couple years after Carl Douglas had a hit with Kung-Fu Fighting.)
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 8:37 AM on March 8, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 8:37 AM on March 8, 2023 [3 favorites]
Oh - I once told my wife (who is Native) about the concept of BraveStarr - Native shaman marshal fights crime in Space Texas with the help of his trusty steed/deputy. She didn't believe me at first.
Also, we have a standing agreement that as far as she's concerned, there never was a cartoon by the name of Paw-Paw Bears.
posted by NoxAeternum at 4:32 PM on March 8, 2023 [4 favorites]
Also, we have a standing agreement that as far as she's concerned, there never was a cartoon by the name of Paw-Paw Bears.
posted by NoxAeternum at 4:32 PM on March 8, 2023 [4 favorites]
Aaah yeah, pretty bad.
My own personal curse is to remember the Shirt Tales. Cute little licensed character animal figures who live in a park but also have a supercar and a jet and computer and get calls from the Commissioner and have high powered adventures. Perhaps because it's a licensed property it's almost never talked about or seen today, but it existed, oooooh yes. This show lasted six seasons.
Here's a version with the closing credits included, which admittedly has a nice touch: the shirts on the character drawings read, sequentially, BYE BYE UNTIL NEXT TIME.
posted by JHarris at 5:31 PM on March 8, 2023 [3 favorites]
My own personal curse is to remember the Shirt Tales. Cute little licensed character animal figures who live in a park but also have a supercar and a jet and computer and get calls from the Commissioner and have high powered adventures. Perhaps because it's a licensed property it's almost never talked about or seen today, but it existed, oooooh yes. This show lasted six seasons.
Here's a version with the closing credits included, which admittedly has a nice touch: the shirts on the character drawings read, sequentially, BYE BYE UNTIL NEXT TIME.
posted by JHarris at 5:31 PM on March 8, 2023 [3 favorites]
Ah! I spoke too soon--it only lasted two, thankfully. I thought it couldn't have gone on for that long. Still, two seasons is really too much.
posted by JHarris at 5:33 PM on March 8, 2023
posted by JHarris at 5:33 PM on March 8, 2023
Here's the second season theme song. Rather less charming I think.
posted by JHarris at 5:34 PM on March 8, 2023
posted by JHarris at 5:34 PM on March 8, 2023
My own personal curse is to remember the Shirt Tales.
The last time I was at my local Hallmark, they had Shirt Tales plushies.
posted by NoxAeternum at 7:42 PM on March 8, 2023 [2 favorites]
The last time I was at my local Hallmark, they had Shirt Tales plushies.
posted by NoxAeternum at 7:42 PM on March 8, 2023 [2 favorites]
...Just coming in to confess that I had never heard of The Shirt Tales, and legit thought that it was a cartoon about living t-shirts.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 3:46 AM on March 9, 2023
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 3:46 AM on March 9, 2023
Finally had a chance to watch this, and it was so much fun! I think it must be judged on the bad quality of animation across the board (lazy ideation + writing + graphics + voice work) because while I have others I would also add to the list we're throwing out (Captain Caveman & the Teen Angels, Fred & Barney Meet the Shmoo), they also sort of rocked. I loved Hong Kong Phooey (my one impression growing up was a pitch-perfect rendition of Rosemary the receptionist's whole "Hello, hello.." phone answering spiel), but I tried rewatching it to show my son, and it felt too problematic in too many ways to continue. But it was funny. Definitely not on the level of that body horror disaster of the teen who turned into a car.
One thing I thought was interesting was how many of these I had seen vs never heard of. I know I watched Clue Club, even though they said there were only 16 episodes, and I immediately remembered Grape Ape, so it must have done something right. But I'd never heard of most of the others they mentioned surrounding it, even the ones that lasted longer. There weren't that many channels - there were literally 3. How could you not have heard of something that ran for more episodes than the thing you did watch? I almost feel cheated. Because I found myself actually sucked into watching most of the clips of these bad ones and thinking, yeah, I would have watched that if it was on, it was okay. My standards weren't that high, I think. Bad was just expected, and made the good stuff better. You watched the crap because sometimes something awesome would fall out of it, and it was better than going outside or being forced to play with your siblings. One thing I like about this video is the voiceover - now, when someone makes worst-of listicle shows like this, the narration is always in a snarky, "would you believe...!" comic's voice (sometimes an actual comedian's). Here it's just a regular guy, walking you through some information. Maybe it's just a placeholder / scratch track. But it would never fly today. It's probably why we spend so much time ditching mass media for DIY content - sometimes good enough is far better than overproduced. Even when it isn't as good. As someone who works on the overproduced side of media, it's something to think about anyway.
I was also really happy to see The Robonic Stooges, because it sits in a weird place in my memory where I put things I'm not 100% sure I didn't make up. I've actually googled this and found no backup, so maybe this thread is where I can finally find some closure... I strongly remember that they reported to a Chief called O.O.O., who would appear on a screen at random times to yell at them. And when he appeared, one of them would always say, "Uh oh, it's O. O. O.!" So most of my life, when someone just says "uh oh," my lizard brain immediately thinks, "Uh oh, it's O. O. O.!" because it remembers that was from some cartoon where the Three Stooges lived in the future and solved crimes. And then the rest of my brain gets all quiet and embarrassed. So at least I'm closer to confirmation that the thing I remember actually existed.
posted by Mchelly at 5:09 AM on March 9, 2023 [4 favorites]
One thing I thought was interesting was how many of these I had seen vs never heard of. I know I watched Clue Club, even though they said there were only 16 episodes, and I immediately remembered Grape Ape, so it must have done something right. But I'd never heard of most of the others they mentioned surrounding it, even the ones that lasted longer. There weren't that many channels - there were literally 3. How could you not have heard of something that ran for more episodes than the thing you did watch? I almost feel cheated. Because I found myself actually sucked into watching most of the clips of these bad ones and thinking, yeah, I would have watched that if it was on, it was okay. My standards weren't that high, I think. Bad was just expected, and made the good stuff better. You watched the crap because sometimes something awesome would fall out of it, and it was better than going outside or being forced to play with your siblings. One thing I like about this video is the voiceover - now, when someone makes worst-of listicle shows like this, the narration is always in a snarky, "would you believe...!" comic's voice (sometimes an actual comedian's). Here it's just a regular guy, walking you through some information. Maybe it's just a placeholder / scratch track. But it would never fly today. It's probably why we spend so much time ditching mass media for DIY content - sometimes good enough is far better than overproduced. Even when it isn't as good. As someone who works on the overproduced side of media, it's something to think about anyway.
I was also really happy to see The Robonic Stooges, because it sits in a weird place in my memory where I put things I'm not 100% sure I didn't make up. I've actually googled this and found no backup, so maybe this thread is where I can finally find some closure... I strongly remember that they reported to a Chief called O.O.O., who would appear on a screen at random times to yell at them. And when he appeared, one of them would always say, "Uh oh, it's O. O. O.!" So most of my life, when someone just says "uh oh," my lizard brain immediately thinks, "Uh oh, it's O. O. O.!" because it remembers that was from some cartoon where the Three Stooges lived in the future and solved crimes. And then the rest of my brain gets all quiet and embarrassed. So at least I'm closer to confirmation that the thing I remember actually existed.
posted by Mchelly at 5:09 AM on March 9, 2023 [4 favorites]
oh my God I forgot about the Robonic Stooges
I did not forget about the Paw Paw Bears, if only because one Cartoon Planet episode briefly turned Brak into a Paw Paw Bear
however, I can report that if you want YouTubers with mild monotone voices that deliver information without too much snark, they are all over the science side of YouTube, and I often go to sleep listening to them
posted by Countess Elena at 6:29 AM on March 9, 2023 [2 favorites]
I did not forget about the Paw Paw Bears, if only because one Cartoon Planet episode briefly turned Brak into a Paw Paw Bear
however, I can report that if you want YouTubers with mild monotone voices that deliver information without too much snark, they are all over the science side of YouTube, and I often go to sleep listening to them
posted by Countess Elena at 6:29 AM on March 9, 2023 [2 favorites]
NoxAeternum, they're still flogging the Shirt Tales? It seems so weird to turn a bunch of cutesy greeting card characters into Batman-style hi-tech crime fighters, but then, maybe Batman is really a cute little anthropomorphic bat, who simulates being a muscled billionaire superhero using inflatable dolls and projectors and mist machines, like a Scooby-Doo villain?
posted by JHarris at 6:34 AM on March 9, 2023
posted by JHarris at 6:34 AM on March 9, 2023
they're still flogging the Shirt Tales?
Nostalgia, like meth, is a hell of a drug.
posted by NoxAeternum at 7:34 AM on March 9, 2023 [1 favorite]
Nostalgia, like meth, is a hell of a drug.
posted by NoxAeternum at 7:34 AM on March 9, 2023 [1 favorite]
I still have my stuffed Tyg, almost :::grumble::: 40 years later.
posted by sara is disenchanted at 2:46 PM on March 10, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by sara is disenchanted at 2:46 PM on March 10, 2023 [2 favorites]
Mchelly: "Uh oh, it's O. O. O.!" (happens at the 1:20 mark).
They don't say exactly that every episode though. They say some variation but in my quick trawl it popped up more than once.
I found a website that had only the first five minutes of each episode before you had to register but because every episode follows the pattern of open with bad guy who does bad thing then cut to Stooges "hilarity" which is interrupted by O.O.O. who gives them their mission stopping the bad guy, you don't need to watch an entire episode to hear it. I'm using a Daily Motion link because it's slightly less sketchier than the website I used.
posted by LostInUbe at 6:00 PM on March 10, 2023 [4 favorites]
They don't say exactly that every episode though. They say some variation but in my quick trawl it popped up more than once.
I found a website that had only the first five minutes of each episode before you had to register but because every episode follows the pattern of open with bad guy who does bad thing then cut to Stooges "hilarity" which is interrupted by O.O.O. who gives them their mission stopping the bad guy, you don't need to watch an entire episode to hear it. I'm using a Daily Motion link because it's slightly less sketchier than the website I used.
posted by LostInUbe at 6:00 PM on March 10, 2023 [4 favorites]
Omg LostinUbe, thank you for for helping restore my sanity!
Not all (robonic) heroes wear capes.
posted by Mchelly at 4:32 PM on March 11, 2023 [3 favorites]
Not all (robonic) heroes wear capes.
posted by Mchelly at 4:32 PM on March 11, 2023 [3 favorites]
« Older They choose talent, we choose dance | The girl is crying in her latte Newer »
This thread has been archived and is closed to new comments
posted by JHarris at 5:15 PM on March 4, 2023 [6 favorites]