"Relentless Campaign to Weaponize Government Power"
April 26, 2023 11:58 AM   Subscribe

Disney Sues Ron DeSantis (Reuters, NPR, NYT, AP)
posted by box (172 comments total) 31 users marked this as a favorite
 
“Disney regrets that it has come to this.”

GAWRSH!?!
posted by Fizz at 12:05 PM on April 26, 2023 [38 favorites]


as an Aries and a Florida resident, all I gotta say is, happy birthday to me, a few days late.

also: POPCORN
posted by martin q blank at 12:06 PM on April 26, 2023 [16 favorites]


If DeSantis or any of his staff were paying attention, this was the clear endgame Disney was making abundantly clear was coming.
posted by NoxAeternum at 12:07 PM on April 26, 2023 [10 favorites]


The only real questions are: 1) why it took this long, and 2) why anyone serious thinks DeSantis is anything other than a demented fascist clown weaponising the power of the state for political retaliation, with his bizarre obsession with deciding to punish Disney...which is headquartered in California...for being "too woke" (which, IANAL, but this seems blatantly unconstitutional, among other things).
posted by Pseudonymous Cognomen at 12:08 PM on April 26, 2023 [9 favorites]


Good.
posted by AlonzoMosleyFBI at 12:08 PM on April 26, 2023


"But but, we're the ones against big government!" said the right wingers
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 12:09 PM on April 26, 2023 [23 favorites]


Isn’t there also a bill before the FL legislature that would impose special inspection requirements for any monorail system that runs across county lines, of which there is only one in the entire state?
posted by Thorzdad at 12:09 PM on April 26, 2023 [4 favorites]


The only real questions are: 1) why it took this long...

I suppose Disney waited until DeSantis went all-in on the retaliation. It’s a “never interrupt your enemy while he’s making a mistake” situation.
posted by Thorzdad at 12:10 PM on April 26, 2023 [89 favorites]


Isn’t there also a bill before the FL legislature that would impose special inspection requirements for any monorail system that runs across county lines, of which there is only one in the entire state?

Yup, which makes it functionally a bill of attainder.
posted by NoxAeternum at 12:11 PM on April 26, 2023 [21 favorites]


Mike Tyson is a scumbag, but when another scumbag runs up and tries to sucker-punch him you can't help but just kinda go "The man does of a certain reputation ro uphold..."

I look forward to finding out about how campaign donations (maybe for president, maybe for dog-catcher) went to cover the inevitable draconian settlement.
posted by East14thTaco at 12:13 PM on April 26, 2023 [7 favorites]


Let's you and him fight
posted by axiom at 12:14 PM on April 26, 2023 [28 favorites]


Disney should have never gotten the sweetheart Reedy Creek deal in the first place.

But DeSantis stupidly tipped his hand and if he'd been all coy about the retaliation "No, really, it has nothing to do with Disney's opposition to the Don't Say Gay bill, it was just time to re-evaluate the sweetheart deal (wink, wink)," Disney wouldn't have much of a leg to stand on.

As it is, Disney is 100% in the right on this case, because all of DeSantis's statements on the bill showed its purpose (whatever the text of the law says) was unambiguously retaliatory.
posted by tclark at 12:15 PM on April 26, 2023 [30 favorites]


Bringing the power of the state to bear on a private corporation in retaliation for speech is a bad look even for MAGA republicans. They might hate woke companies, but this is such a clear case of overreach, and so petty.... It makes DeSantis look foolish and irresponsible. And he's campaigning on it.
posted by mr_roboto at 12:16 PM on April 26, 2023 [10 favorites]


1) why it took this long

in general -- 100% agree. but it looks like Disney was waiting for what's indisputably an act that causes damage -- and they knew it was coming and were ready to go. From the NPT story:
At DeSantis' urging, Republican lawmakers passed a bill that stripped Disney of its self-governing authority. But before the law took effect, Disney signed a deal with its outgoing board allowing it to retain development rights on the 40-square mile district. It also included covenants that give Disney final say on any alterations to the property.

At a meeting Wednesday near Orlando, DeSantis' handpicked board voted to invalidate that agreement. Moments later, Disney filed a 77-page lawsuit in federal court, charging DeSantis and other officials with violations of the contracts clause, the takings clause, due process and its First Amendment right to protected speech. In its lawsuit, Disney says, "This government action was patently retaliatory, patently anti-business, and patently unconstitutional." The company is asking a federal judge to declare the board's action "unlawful and unenforceable."
BTW, just for the record: one member of that handpicked DeSantis board is Bridget Ziegler, founder of Moms for Liberty. She's also chair of the Sarasota County school board, where she's trying to bring in a Hillsdale College flunky to overhaul the curriculum. And DeSantis also appointed her to the search committee for the next president of New College of Florida, where he staged a coup with a new board that is remaking the College into Hillsdale South. If DeSantis ends up a contender for president, keep an eye out for her in his team somewhere.
posted by martin q blank at 12:19 PM on April 26, 2023 [41 favorites]


This is a thorny situation! Ron DeSantis is a fascist but I don't love the idea that corporations will save us but also I'm an anarchist and I don't trust the government anyway especially one that's working towards queer/trans genocide but Disney sucks in many ways so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

In conclusion many things are bad all at the same time but I guess in this case DeSantis is worse. Sigh.
posted by an octopus IRL at 12:20 PM on April 26, 2023 [33 favorites]


(I didn't think this detail was important enough to be in the FPP, but the lawyer that Disney hired, Los Angeles litigator Daniel Petrocelli, has previously represented Fred Goldman in his civil suit against O.J. Simpson, former Enron CEO Jeffrey Skilling against charges of fraud and insider trading, and (wait for it) former president Donald Trump in a class-action suit against Trump University.)
posted by box at 12:23 PM on April 26, 2023 [7 favorites]


The full text of the complaint in the lawsuit has been posted to CourtListener.
posted by interogative mood at 12:24 PM on April 26, 2023 [3 favorites]


>why it took this long

I'm going to try not to spoil The First Law series too much, but when you are close to omnipotent and immortal you're able ro be very patient. And that means planning very slowly and very carefully and being both the immovable object and unresistable force at once when you decide to make your move.

This has been Disney's strategy in general and their legal department's strategy in particular for as long as anyone capable of reading this has been alive.

The fact that the governor of Florida of all states could forget this is probably what astonishes me more than anything else here. I figured after you got sworn in they took you into a room and you kissed Bob Iger's ring.
posted by East14thTaco at 12:27 PM on April 26, 2023 [28 favorites]


Disney is my personal most hated company. In this one case it seems pretty clear though that DeSantis and reds were deliberately trying to grab attention by fucking with Disney, sometimes by screwing themselves in the process. This seems to be an extension of that. Republicans need to face more consequences for the awful shit they're doing all the time and this seems like an easy one. There also needs to start being some kind of penalty for real-life-absurdity overload, for times like when Disney of all companies is accused of being "woke" at all.
posted by GoblinHoney at 12:32 PM on April 26, 2023 [13 favorites]


I just feel like this week all the right things are happening to the right people.
posted by hippybear at 12:32 PM on April 26, 2023 [23 favorites]


One of those lawsuits where you wish both sides could lose.
posted by Paul Slade at 12:34 PM on April 26, 2023 [19 favorites]


Corporations are not going to save us from the pretty acts of tyranny by people like DeSantis against people who don't share his extremist ideology. The ballot boxes he's taken away, the voters he's purged from the rolls, etc, none of that will change regardless of this case. When DeSantis loses in court he will just use it as an excuse to rail against the liberal, woke, corrupt activist judges. He probably pushed this through in such a blatantly political way so that he would lose the case. He doesn't want to run Reedy Creek, he wanted to get media attention and make his claim as a culture warrior --- looking tough and standing up to Disney. Regardless of the outcome of the lawsuit he gets to claim that he took on those woke corporations and punished them. In some ways, politically it is better for him to lose. It lets the more moderate Republicans pretend as many did with abortion rights that this stuff doesn't matter because no matter what horrible thing the legislature passes, the courts will block it -- they excuse it as just political theater -- which is mostly is.
posted by interogative mood at 12:37 PM on April 26, 2023 [19 favorites]


Welp, he sure wanted this and now he’s gonna get it.
posted by Artw at 12:41 PM on April 26, 2023 [4 favorites]


I'll believe it's not kayfabe when Hulu does something like this to Repulicans, rather than running their ads during every commercial break.
posted by credulous at 12:43 PM on April 26, 2023 [3 favorites]


Is Disney suing Desantis personally or are they suing his bit of the government? The complaint specifies that they are suing Desantis (and a host of others) in their official capacities.

If Desantis' position does indeed shield him from personal liability, then I don't see how this hurts the guy. He doesn't have to win. He just needs to be seen as a fighter. If he does win, he's a champion; if he loses, he's just another victim of the corrupt coastal elites and their liberal activist judges.

The lawsuit perpetuates the fight and it'll be FL taxpayers who are on the hook for any damages -- and a lot of those taxpayers will be delighted to see their tax dollars spent on a Disney fight.
posted by Sauce Trough at 12:45 PM on April 26, 2023 [4 favorites]


The problem of course is that deliberate and willfully illegal stupidity by Republican politicians just results in settlement costs which come out of the public purse and will then result in more cuts to things Republicans want to cut anyway. So in terms of policy it is win for them either way. They either get their stated desire or their unstated desire.

The only issue is if it results in him looking too stupid for even his own devotees and they have a pretty high, possibly even unmeetable, stupidity threshold.
posted by srboisvert at 12:48 PM on April 26, 2023 [9 favorites]


1) why it took this long,

Disney's lawyers are smart enough to take the time needed to build a bulletproof case, so I'm assuming this is the answer to your question.

DeSantis is ego driven, and emotional. They're going to destroy him.

Based on reports that have come out recently, T***p will also destroy him, and everyone who has ever worked for him is also piling on. A LOT of people hate him with vitriol and malice. This is not going to end well for him, and I am enjoying the implosion. Dude makes T***p seem downright amiable.
posted by Chuffy at 12:53 PM on April 26, 2023 [14 favorites]


I'm just hoping that, much like the Dominion/Fox News trial, the discovery process exposes lots and lots of malice, assholery and incompetence for the world to see, and that it comes out right when DeSantis would rather be trying to focus on his campaign messaging.

We talk about the blind devotion of GOP voters and the Trump floor and so on, but national elections are won by winning over small percentages of voters in swing states. A candidate who looks incompetent and vindictive against one of the country's most popular companies is not a good sell with those rare but significant middle-ground voters.
posted by martin q blank at 12:54 PM on April 26, 2023 [10 favorites]


Is Disney suing Desantis personally or are they suing his bit of the government?

“Disney finds itself in this regrettable position because it expressed a viewpoint the Governor and his allies did not like. Disney wishes that things could have been resolved a different way...But Disney also knows that it is fortunate to have the resources to take a stand against the State’s retaliation — a stand smaller businesses and individuals might not be able to take when the State comes after them for expressing their own views. In America, the government cannot punish you for speaking your mind.”

From the Huffington Post.
posted by Chuffy at 1:00 PM on April 26, 2023 [8 favorites]


If Desantis' position does indeed shield him from personal liability, then I don't see how this hurts the guy.

The suit isn’t about hurting DeSantis, one way or another. It’s intended to nullify the state’s actions against Disney. Period. It’s nothing personal. It’s just business.
posted by Thorzdad at 1:10 PM on April 26, 2023 [16 favorites]


How dumb is this guy? Everyone knows you don’t fuck with the mouse. They have shit-tons of money and lots and LOTS of lawyers… and a crap-ton of goodwill in the public eye. It is not a smart move.
posted by caution live frogs at 1:12 PM on April 26, 2023 [3 favorites]


Remind me never to get sued by Disney.
posted by grouse at 1:13 PM on April 26, 2023 [3 favorites]


This isn't a lawsuit in civil court for damages. This is a lawsuit to get redress of actions taken by the government. I don't think there will any cash payout to anyone.
posted by hippybear at 1:13 PM on April 26, 2023 [5 favorites]


Everyone knows you don’t fuck with the mouse.

That's sort of true, but the thing is DeSantis never had to play it off as retaliation. Even his knuckle-dragging fanbase would put two and two together if he'd never played it up as revenge over their stance on the Don't Say Gay bill.

People say Disney has outsmarted him, and I'm not entirely sure I agree. I think DeSantis outstupided himself.
posted by tclark at 1:15 PM on April 26, 2023 [38 favorites]


I think DeSantis outstupided himself.

one of the truly beautiful things about the lawsuit (thanks, interrogative mood!) is that it quotes from DeSantis's own personal memoir as evidence of his planned retaliation.
posted by martin q blank at 1:23 PM on April 26, 2023 [38 favorites]


IMO Disney is being way too kind to DeSantis. There's so many ways that Disney could make an example out of him, this is clearly Disney just trying to keep business as usual.

I almost want Disney to lose. Not because I prefer DeSantis in this fight, but because corporations need a cautionary tale about the monster they've helped create with the GOP. They need to help crush the GOP or they're going to be subject to the whims of the Trumps and DeSantises indefinitely.

As long as the GOP's evil isn't terrible for business, or is good for the bottom line, they're happy to have people like DeSantis running amuck.

The obvious end game here is the same as it was in Putin's Russia - the state will tell you what to do, and they'll simply take over businesses that displease them. That's the future the GOP wants. And Disney and other BigCo's have been helping that to become reality.
posted by jzb at 1:24 PM on April 26, 2023 [10 favorites]


Having worked for Disney for a number of years in the past - never, ever bet against their legal squad and corporate planning. They'll hit you from so many directions that you won't even be able to tell. They're ruthless and efficient and absolutely waited until just this moment to drop the suit.

If negotiations would have stopped the chaos before this point, Disney would have walked away with whatever bumps and bruises the PR impact would have been, but they'd look at it as the cost of business.

Never forget that Disney - for years, the most conservative of the major entertainment companies - has been the target of right wing boycotts and "stir up the base" hate whenever Disney has done something small like recognizing that gay people exists, are employees and deserve benefits. (they did that after all the other major hollywood players too!)
posted by drewbage1847 at 1:26 PM on April 26, 2023 [18 favorites]


That's sort of true, but the thing is DeSantis never had to play it off as retaliation.

He did though. Because the cruelty retaliation was the point. He was playing it up to his base, and subtle doesn't get it done for fascists. It's got to be blatant. It's got to be a raw display of power.
posted by jzb at 1:26 PM on April 26, 2023 [11 favorites]


The suit isn’t about hurting DeSantis, one way or another. It’s intended to nullify the state’s actions against Disney. Period. It’s nothing personal. It’s just business.

for sure, but there's a vibe in here that this is like the Avengers assembling to finally take down Desantis like they would take down the Red Skull or someone. No matter what happens in court, DeSantis probably comes out ahead here. He's term-limited and immune to consequences and a prolonged Disney fight will only burnish his credentials as the fashy prince who was promised.
posted by Sauce Trough at 1:29 PM on April 26, 2023 [1 favorite]


Disney should have never gotten the sweetheart Reedy Creek deal in the first place.

Disney World is built upon a massive expanse of literal nothingness. Swamp land. There's no possible way a backwater county in Florida in the 1960s would have been able to accomplish that project on that scale with local resources alone in less than a century.

Is it necessary now? Maybe, maybe not. But it was an insanely smart move at the time.
posted by JoeZydeco at 1:31 PM on April 26, 2023 [14 favorites]


settlement costs which come out of the public purse and will then result in more cuts to things Republicans want to cut anyway

This, exactly this. No matter what, the private citizen taxpayer is the one who loses.

We need to think up some secondary insurance scheme whereby the bad actors (Desantis here, but others have come before and will follow) or the lawyers who condone their actions end up paying the real price (the dollars).

I read last weekend (can't find the article right now) about some small town in a midwestern state where the crazies took over the local gov and drove out the longtime environment person, among others. Who sued, and won, as she should, for wrongful termination. Then the town was that much more broke. Yay, progress.
posted by Dashy at 1:35 PM on April 26, 2023 [2 favorites]


While the Reedy Creek Improvement District is the biggest and most expansive, there are over 1,800 special districts in Florida.
posted by mmascolino at 1:36 PM on April 26, 2023 [6 favorites]


Disney World is built upon a massive expanse of literal nothingness. Swamp land.

"Swamp land", AKA wetlands, are not "literal nothingness".

Unfortunately, people have been looking at Florida wetlands for hundreds of years as terra nullius, and then destroying those very rich and diverse ecosystems to replace that supposed "nothing" with "something".
posted by Artifice_Eternity at 1:50 PM on April 26, 2023 [68 favorites]


Yes, sorry, didn't mean to diminish the importance of the ecosystem there. I'll go hug an alligator for penance.
posted by JoeZydeco at 1:54 PM on April 26, 2023 [25 favorites]


If Desantis' position does indeed shield him from personal liability, then I don't see how this hurts the guy.

I'm sure all the Democrats running in upcoming FL elections will be happy to point out how much state money is being wasted because of DeSantis's personal grievances.
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 2:21 PM on April 26, 2023 [1 favorite]


Not to pile on either, but as someone with family in that area going back to the late 1800s, there were people there too, not just alligators 🐊:)
posted by flamk at 2:23 PM on April 26, 2023 [19 favorites]


One angle of this worth watching - the legal construct that Disney used in the Jan/Feb RCID final hours is what's known as a Chapter 163 developer's agreement. This is a commonly used mechanism for local governments to come to an understanding with a private developer about how a parcel of land is going to be used for development. If the DeSantis government makes Chapter 163 deals vulnerable to legal challenge and arbitrary nullification, it will unleash all kinds of unexpected side effects for capital and government alike.

Florida is essentially a massive real estate speculation playground that also has a state government. Wealthy private landowners and very large private developers have always been a big part of how the state operates. The original Reedy Creek deal was done in a way that very much reflected this original spirit of Florida. The Florida Legislature went into that deal with eyes open. Nobody got screwed or bamboozled any more than was the norm for that place and time - which is to say, a fair amount all around, but everybody involved was more than willing to play the game. (Chad Denver Emerson's book Project Future tells the story in detail.)

I suspect DeSantis has quite a few Florida real estate developers among his high-dollar donors. If he won't listen to sense from his own party or from Disney itself, he might - might - eventually have to change course because of the threat to his donors' capital.
posted by sockshaveholes at 2:28 PM on April 26, 2023 [23 favorites]


I'm reminded that the subject of Stephen Sondheim's last musical is deeply tied into the creation of Boca Raton and the land speculation bubble that ensued.
posted by hippybear at 2:32 PM on April 26, 2023 [4 favorites]


Agreed that HerrSantis has outstupided himself.
> I almost want Disney to lose. Not because I prefer DeSantis in this fight, but because corporations need a cautionary tale about the monster they've helped create with the GOP. They need to help crush the GOP or they're going to be subject to the whims of the Trumps and DeSantises indefinitely.
I am definitely not a fan of Disney and their massive disproportionate power as a billion-dollar multinational. But I would root for anyone in a fight against DeSantis.

He has done massive damage to the electoral system in this state, not just the usual ratfuckery, but redistricting to erase PoC-representing congressional districts and practically override a state amendment to return voting rights to non-violent felons who've served their time. He's done everything he can to undermine basic equity and justice for trans & gender non-conforming people -- including taking trans kids away from their supportive parents -- and emboldened stochastic terrorism against them. He's working to destroy any parts of the public education system that are to the Left of Mitt Romney, creating a chilling effect on the hiring/retention of LGBTIQ+ teachers & employees and whitebleachwashing history books of America's multiple crimes against PoC. He's chipping away at wombbearers' Right to Choose. And that's just the stuff off the top of my head. It doesn't matter how much of it is blatantly unconstitutional when he's been packing the FL courts with ideologically likeminded judges and most all of his victims with standing lack the resources for a protracted legal fight to overturn these laws & policies.

Sure, big corps and oligarchs need to kept in check. But DeSantis is harming & killing people right fucking now here in Florida, and too much of the state population is either outright Nazi insurrectionists or MLK's "white moderates." He must be stopped here, now, and must not rise further.
posted by Fiberoptic Zebroid and The Hypnagogic Jerks at 2:34 PM on April 26, 2023 [62 favorites]


I just want to say that I haven't seen this username before that I can remember, and that Fiberoptic Zebroid and The Hypnagogic Jerks is an amazing username.
posted by hippybear at 2:39 PM on April 26, 2023 [7 favorites]


Sue his fascist pants off, Disney.
posted by metatuesday at 2:42 PM on April 26, 2023 [4 favorites]


Reading the text of the complaint, just for funzies:

+ The first sentence of one of the First Amendment violation claims cites... Citizens United. I don't like that ruling at all, but bravo to the Disney legal team for tossing that stinker back in the face of basically the same Supreme Court that could hear this case, should it go that far.

+ The First Amendment Violation item also cites Warren v. DeSantis, an active case regarding the ouster of the Hillsborough County (Tampa) state's attorney. Pettiness points again to the Disney team.
posted by sockshaveholes at 2:53 PM on April 26, 2023 [10 favorites]


There is no pettiness quite like legalese pettiness.
posted by NoxAeternum at 2:55 PM on April 26, 2023 [10 favorites]


I've been watching this brew for a while, trying to figure what advantage DeSantis gets from messing with Disney and can't up with anything major. It's an odd combination of dumb, silly, stupid, and I keep using words that are similar to dumb and stupid, and it's literally a hole that he keeps digging for himself.

He's supposed to be a goddamn lawyer and he thinks it's a great idea to go against Disney's lawyers. That's the dizzying heights of stupid petty arrogance that's going on here.

Like many, I have issues with Disney and how large they've gotten and their desire to grow even larger. But here I am, rooting for them like some Roman citizen at a gladiatorial fight. I hope they eat him alive in every legal way possible.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 3:05 PM on April 26, 2023 [13 favorites]


trying to figure what advantage DeSantis gets from messing with Disney

He gets to present himself as a crusading white knight out to vanquish moral turpitude by punishing a supposedly "family-friendly" company for daring to acknowledge the existence of LGBT people.This plays well with the knuckle-dragging fundamentalist morons, fascists, fratboy bigots, and assorted other cretins who make up the Republican base, and Ronny Meatballs is hoping he can ride that train all the way to the White House (since they key to getting the GOP nomination is appealing to the worst, most insane elements of the Republican base, because they're the ones who turn out for primaries).
posted by Pseudonymous Cognomen at 3:14 PM on April 26, 2023 [8 favorites]


I'm pretty sure DeSantis thinks he's somehow getting super valuable MAGA points or culture war frequent flyer miles or something. I don't think he's taken any of the actual cost, to himself, to Florida, to various reputations, that is is going to extract.
posted by hippybear at 3:15 PM on April 26, 2023 [2 favorites]


Might play well(ish) for DS in the primaries, where the current game for Repub contenders is to out crazy the opponent.

But harder to see how it would help him in the election proper. If anything it seems more likely to hurt him, and possibly quite seriously.
posted by Pouteria at 3:22 PM on April 26, 2023 [1 favorite]


Meanwhile, more than two feet of rain fell on Fort Lauderdale in a 24 hour period, a foot of it in a single hour according to a radio broadcast I heard.

DeSantis should be worrying about the solvency of insurers and the integrity of state infrastructures because a hard rain is already falling, and people can be distracted only for so long when the ground is literally being washed out from under their feet.
posted by jamjam at 3:26 PM on April 26, 2023 [14 favorites]


DeSantis has already burned all the bridges necessary for not being a national contender. I love that he's playacting at it being a possibility because it needles Orange Julias. But truly, there is no way in hell DeSantis has any support that could carry him to any sort of nomination. I don't think even early primaries.
posted by hippybear at 3:26 PM on April 26, 2023 [2 favorites]


The lawyers that represent him are his friends. He's paying them with taxpayer money - that will find its way back to his pockets through donations from his lawyer friends - I don't think he gives two shits about anything - he's going to get his payday.
posted by Gyre,Gimble,Wabe, Esq. at 3:27 PM on April 26, 2023 [6 favorites]


Hey, didja hear the one about Disney suing DeSantis?

’Cause he’s fucking Goofy!
posted by Orange Dinosaur Slide at 3:42 PM on April 26, 2023


If DeSantis were engaged in a clandestine same-sex relationship with a cartoon dog*, his need to keep this secret would explain at lot of the vitriol contained in the Meatball's denouncement of Disney and his pursuit of quenching any mention of queer existence within Florida.

*What is Goofy? Pluto is obviously a dog, but that means Goofy is.... what?
posted by hippybear at 3:46 PM on April 26, 2023 [1 favorite]


Grimace is Goofy's larval form.
posted by delfin at 3:49 PM on April 26, 2023 [3 favorites]


Grimace is canonically a giant taste bud, and now you too are cursed with this knowledge.
posted by dephlogisticated at 3:56 PM on April 26, 2023 [19 favorites]


The first sentence of one of the First Amendment violation claims cites... Citizens United. I don't like that ruling at all, but bravo to the Disney legal team for tossing that stinker back in the face of basically the same Supreme Court that could hear this case, should it go that far.

I liked the language that tossed the GOP “weaponizing of government” rhetoric right back in their face.
posted by Thorzdad at 3:59 PM on April 26, 2023 [5 favorites]


Citizens United proclaimed that Money Is Speech, and now we've got [counting] I believe THREE supreme court justices being examined in the press and otherwise for having gotten too much speech in their lives.
posted by hippybear at 4:04 PM on April 26, 2023 [20 favorites]


I am half of the opinion the lawsuit is not going to really accomplish much. What I'm surprised that Disney hasn't yet done is announce an Amazon-like search for a new location, asking states to present their best deals. Threaten DeSantis with the loss of the largest employer in the state.
posted by overhauser at 4:10 PM on April 26, 2023 [2 favorites]


trying to figure what advantage DeSantis gets from messing with Disney

I think he's a true believer. It's Trump-like in that … just because it's confusing doesn't mean there's really some master plan that we haven't figured out yet. I think even saying "he's doing it because it riles up his base" is only half right: he's doing it because he believes it's the right thing to do.

And of course he believes that partly because of his base, because of his own information diet which validates him for moves like this etc. But I think it runs deeper than a legible political calculation that balances the pros and cons.
posted by wemayfreeze at 4:18 PM on April 26, 2023 [5 favorites]


I'm pretty sure DeSantis thinks he's somehow getting super valuable MAGA points or culture war frequent flyer miles or something. I don't think he's taken any of the actual cost, to himself, to Florida, to various reputations, that is is going to extract.

"Who benefits?"

The attorneys that Florida pays for the defendants DeSantis, The Board, et. al. benefit. And I'm sure they'll reward DeSantis in all sorts of "private flights/resort stays/etc." personal hospitality going forward.

With that said, discovery is going to be a hoot.

"Would you please define the term 'woke'"?
posted by mikelieman at 4:30 PM on April 26, 2023 [5 favorites]


Honestly maybe Florida needs it’s money transparently stolen like this as a wake up, presuming such a thing is possible for them.
posted by Artw at 4:41 PM on April 26, 2023 [2 favorites]


Florida is the state of the Sunshine Law, which is why we have Florida Man... all the arrests and such are instantly available public records so every stupid thing anyone does in the state can become news.

That's why the Disney board's maneuvers were legal -- they publicized what they were doing per the Sunshine Law. They didn't do their things in secret.
posted by hippybear at 4:44 PM on April 26, 2023 [8 favorites]


Honestly maybe Florida needs it’s money transparently stolen like this as a wake up, presuming such a thing is possible for them.

You know I don't actually agree with this; as with settlements for police violence the bad actors are not the ones who suffer the budgetary consequences of their malfeasance and I get the theory that the people who voted for DeSantis should face financial consequences but they're not the ones who are going to be hurt either, that's going to happen to the people who are already targeted directly or indirectly by the government through for example slashing of social programs and supports.
posted by an octopus IRL at 4:48 PM on April 26, 2023 [4 favorites]


Well good luck to any of them that don’t like being robbed blind, hope they can do something with it?
posted by Artw at 4:56 PM on April 26, 2023


"Disney against the Metaphysicals"
posted by clavdivs at 4:58 PM on April 26, 2023


Well good luck to any of them that don’t like being robbed blind, hope they can do something with it?

This seems like a really unkind attitude towards people who have been disenfranchised.
posted by an octopus IRL at 4:59 PM on April 26, 2023 [5 favorites]


Florida is the state of the Sunshine Law, which is why we have Florida Man... all the arrests and such are instantly available public records so every stupid thing anyone does in the state can become news.

Which is actually really toxic and undercuts rehabilitation as this makes it near impossible to get out from an arrest in Florida. Even worse, there's a certain sort of online scumbag that uses Florida's open arrest records and mugshots to engage in legalized extortion by SEO, putting up mugshots so they rank on searches then demanding a payment for removal.

The Sunshine Laws are actually pretty damn harmful.
posted by NoxAeternum at 5:06 PM on April 26, 2023 [2 favorites]


This seems like a really unkind attitude towards people who have been disenfranchised

They live in Florida. The Desantis government is trying to kill them a dozen different ways anyway. I doubt hoping this has an affect on what passes for a democratic process there doesn’t really seem all that unkind.
posted by Artw at 5:13 PM on April 26, 2023


Might play well(ish) for DS in the primaries, where the current game for Repub contenders is to out crazy the opponent.

Even in the primaries I think he is getting outflanked by others who are already pointing out how ridiculous and inappropriate this is. (Not that his opponents are any less ridiculous and inappropriate, just that this doesn't seem to be turning into a strength either for the primaries or the general election.
posted by Dip Flash at 5:56 PM on April 26, 2023 [1 favorite]


What I'm surprised that Disney hasn't yet done is announce an Amazon-like search for a new location, asking states to present their best deals. Threaten DeSantis with the loss of the largest employer in the state.

Building a new theme park is a lot of work. If, instead, you can just shake down the governor for a few hundred million and remind everyone your aren't the one to be fucked with then why not go that route?
posted by East14thTaco at 5:56 PM on April 26, 2023 [10 favorites]


Horrifyingly l don’t think they’ve ever cancelled their plan to live the majority of parks staff there, just delayed it. Particularly cruel fir any LGBT employees.
posted by Artw at 6:12 PM on April 26, 2023


I am half of the opinion the lawsuit is not going to really accomplish much.

What, exactly, do you think Disney is trying accomplish beyond getting the courts to stop DeSantis’ attacks? Disney isn’t out to do anything more than protect its business.

What I'm surprised that Disney hasn't yet done is announce an Amazon-like search for a new location, asking states to present their best deals. Threaten DeSantis with the loss of the largest employer in the state.

I’ve seen this idea floated all over the place and it baffles me that anyone would think this might be a viable tactic for Disney. Have you been to Disney World? Moving Amazon is a mere monorail ride compared to what moving WDW would entail. It ain’t going anywhere, and neither is Disney.
posted by Thorzdad at 6:20 PM on April 26, 2023 [14 favorites]


I don't think there will any cash payout to anyone.

The complaint doesn't seek damages, but does request an award of attorney's fees and costs (to which Disney will indeed be entitled if it prevails in court, per 42 USC 1988), which could be substantial.
posted by Not A Thing at 6:49 PM on April 26, 2023 [2 favorites]


Moving Amazon is a mere monorail ride compared to what moving WDW would entail.

Yes, they picked Florida as the site for their East Coast outpost for a whole host of reasons, including mild winters and low taxes. Both of those conditions still hold. There's not really anywhere else in the eastern half of the country that has both of those qualifications and is less conservative than Florida.
posted by Artifice_Eternity at 7:14 PM on April 26, 2023 [2 favorites]


I am briefly imagining the combination of drooling over the kickbacks and rage over all this gay-friendliness that would be induced in the Louisiana government by Disney taking over the old Six Flags New Orleans site. They already love sucking all the money they can out of New Orleans and pushing all kinds of reactionary bullshit. But a quick check of the maps shows that Disney's existing parks are covering a *lot* more space than the ruins of Jazzland.
posted by egypturnash at 7:49 PM on April 26, 2023 [2 favorites]


Oh lordy, WDW is SO huge! I mean, there's a gigantic portion of the land that can't be used AT ALL because it was built on a swamp and they need to put all that water someplace. But man, it is so big! And there's a considerable portion of the land that can still be developed and they might do it. Although building another park, they start to cannibalize their own park attendance. Unless Universal really bats it out of the park in the next while, in which case, keeping people on Disney property instead of spending a day elsewhere is cash in the bank for D.
posted by hippybear at 7:59 PM on April 26, 2023 [1 favorite]


Honestly maybe Florida needs it’s money transparently stolen like this as a wake up, presuming such a thing is possible for them.

You know I don't actually agree with this; as with settlements for police violence the bad actors are not the ones who suffer the budgetary consequences of their malfeasance and I get the theory that the people who voted for DeSantis should face financial consequences but they're not the ones who are going to be hurt either, that's going to happen to the people who are already targeted directly or indirectly by the government through for example slashing of social programs and supports.


Welcome to sado-populism. People perversely will turn to the very asshole who impoverished them for leadership because they are perceived as tough enough to get "us" out of this "mess".
posted by srboisvert at 8:06 PM on April 26, 2023 [2 favorites]


I don’t think anyone is seriously thinking that Disney would pack their bags from Florida, but certainly there is enough demand for another Disney park. Texas politicians are pretty terrible, but they are good at attracting businesses. Walt Disney was from Missouri and either St Louis or KC would be pretty centeral to middle America.
posted by CostcoCultist at 8:26 PM on April 26, 2023


Disney can barely get one ride open in their most popular theme park (Tron). To think they could actually spin up an entire 'nother set of Lands someplace is a bit far fetched. They might be raking in the money, but apparently that's going to investors somehow because they are cutting jobs and can barely keep their parks staffed because of shitty pay and their movies are sort of falling over dead, largely because of lack of money spent on promotion.

So, yeah, Disney could do another park someplace. Meanwhile, Universal is set to smash Disney at their own game in Orlando, and is also starting to do mini-parks around the country with a focus on families, not thrill rides, as a bit of a "wean them in while young" strategy.
posted by hippybear at 8:35 PM on April 26, 2023


It's funny that you mention St Louis, because Walt had the same idea.
posted by JoeZydeco at 8:45 PM on April 26, 2023 [1 favorite]


Yes, they picked Florida as the site for their East Coast outpost for a whole host of reasons, including mild winters and low taxes. Both of those conditions still hold. There's not really anywhere else in the eastern half of the country that has both of those qualifications and is less conservative than Florida.

They don't have to actually do it. They have to announce the contest. To make the point that they can leave.
posted by overhauser at 9:45 PM on April 26, 2023 [2 favorites]


Thanks for the St Louis Link, I hadn’t heard of that.
I did know that he wanted ultimate control in Florida based on strained relationships with local government and surround property owners in California.

I do have some icky feelings about coroporate is having gov’t powers, but maybe Reedy Creek is better than having them fight with Anaheim over trash pickup. By all accounts Disney was running things well with no impact to local residents

Hippybear, I don’t know anything about Disney’s current troubles, but I feel like every mall store, chain restaurant, and other attractions I have been to recently have been short staffed. The construction industry is both short staffed and having supply issues. Some electrical components that used to take 90 days are more like 90 weeks now (yes, over a year and a half for high amperage electrical components). Of course as noted Disney doesn’t need to start building anywhere, just announce a search
posted by CostcoCultist at 10:26 PM on April 26, 2023


They don't have to actually do it. They have to announce the contest. To make the point that they can leave.

Except, they can’t leave. It’s a laughable, hollow bluff and everyone with any level of business and/or logistical sense knows it.

Build another park somewhere? Sure. Maybe. Though, doing so would probably just scavenge attendance away from WDW. But, shutter the small metropolis called Walt Disney World and recreate it elsewhere, which is what “leave” would minimally entail? Nope.

WDW is where it is thanks to a confluence of factors like weather, location, tax-friendliness, and the ability to quietly and cheaply buy-up square-miles of land no-one wants through various shell companies. It’s not going anywhere. It’s not closing.
posted by Thorzdad at 3:12 AM on April 27, 2023 [5 favorites]


“You just get muddy and the pig likes it.” (But somehow they are both the pig.)

Honestly I respect Disney’s stand on this and their general willingness to take small hits to push for justice for their employees. But they’re a $175B company and they do a lot of lobbying specifically to increase their market power—DeSantis wins points with his base for stuff like this.

My impression is that Trump won’t really be a contender this time so the MAGA lane is up for grabs. DeSantis needs notoriety and is going to keep doing dumb provocative shit to get a chance to take Trump’s place.
posted by anotherpanacea at 5:05 AM on April 27, 2023


It’s not going anywhere. It’s not closing

For now, that is true. But I bet they have contingency plans for the next 50-100 years for where they will build next. Florida will not be here forever.
posted by tiny frying pan at 5:10 AM on April 27, 2023 [6 favorites]


Sure, big corps and oligarchs need to kept in check. But DeSantis is harming & killing people right fucking now here in Florida, and too much of the state population is either outright Nazi insurrectionists or MLK's "white moderates." He must be stopped here, now, and must not rise further.

I agree with all that. And yet... Disney's suit won't stop DeSantis, at least not as I understand it. It won't protect any of the people DeSantis is harming, just big business.

So - if Disney losing means that corporations have to re-think their support of the GOP, then I hope they lose. Because their loss doesn't really (further) harm any of the groups you mentioned. It's the "find out" portion of the "fucking around" that Disney and other BigCos have been doing since (at least) the Reagan era by enabling the GOP in order for deregulation, union busting, tax breaks, etc.

Maybe – just maybe – if the GOP starts taking their toys they'll re-consider who they're in bed with and realize that they're reaching the point where they can't control what they've helped build up, and the leopards have run out of other faces to eat.
posted by jzb at 6:00 AM on April 27, 2023 [2 favorites]


Welcome to sado-populism.

The least sexy kink of all time.
posted by Dip Flash at 6:19 AM on April 27, 2023 [7 favorites]


Disney should have never gotten the sweetheart Reedy Creek deal in the first place.

That's not really what Reedy Creek was. Don't buy into DeSantis' idiotic framing. For the most part, Reedy Creek, like every other special district in Florida but more so since they own the vast majority of the land and thus controlled the board, allowed Disney to "tax" itself to pay for better infrastructure than they would otherwise have gotten. If anything, it was a sweetheart deal for Orange and Osceola since they get tax money without having to spend any of it in the RCID area.

There were other benefits to Disney, like getting to be their own code enforcement department and getting to set their own zoning rules, but they weren't getting any direct financial advantage out of the deal. There's a reason Universal never tried to get their own special district. It's expensive to run something like that and the rest of the county ain't paying for any of it.
posted by wierdo at 7:19 AM on April 27, 2023 [14 favorites]


power and money are not interchangeable.. if I'm guessing, DeSantis will fall on his own wretched, hateful sword over this and we won't hear much more about him. By 2030 I will be surprised if Ron DeSantis is a name on anyone's lips let alone a force at any level of gov't, but Disney? Disney will be around.
posted by elkevelvet at 8:09 AM on April 27, 2023 [1 favorite]


Florida will not be here forever.

I'm skeptical there is any motivation to perform actions associated with such long term thinking though. Companies like Disney should be looking to relocate before flooding becomes an everyday occurrence. But I bet they invest in levees and pumps instead of taking the hit now and relocating.

The demand is so large Disney is the rare company that could probably come out ahead by relocating while running their Florida operations into the ground. Start building Disney west Virginia or wherever and you can start selling tickets well before it is fully built out. The tickets would initially be discounted from WDW prices reflecting the lesser size of the park but can be ratcheted up as facilities improve and to keep people going to WDW.
posted by Mitheral at 9:12 AM on April 27, 2023


Grimace is canonically a giant taste bud, and now you too are cursed with this knowledge.

He's somatotype-fluid: "[Grimace] could also embody a milkshake, or a blob."
posted by kirkaracha at 9:17 AM on April 27, 2023


There's a reason Universal never tried to get their own special district. It's expensive to run something like that and the rest of the county ain't paying for any of it.

Universal Orlando actually does have its own special district, according to this article.
posted by Artifice_Eternity at 9:20 AM on April 27, 2023 [1 favorite]


Companies like Disney should be looking to relocate before flooding becomes an everyday occurrence.

Disney World is well inland, and fairly far north along the Florida peninsula, so it's about 125 feet above sea level. Flooding related to sea level rise is not going to be a concern for them any time soon.
posted by Artifice_Eternity at 9:23 AM on April 27, 2023 [5 favorites]


No, but WDW is also built on swampland with much of it being reserved as waterways and lakes and such because that water has to go someplace. Climate change could lead to flooding there through massive rain events, not from sea level rise.
posted by hippybear at 9:34 AM on April 27, 2023


The risks of some catastrophic flood or other event rise along with the shrinking shores of Florida, but I don't think there is anything that suggests that these risks can't be managed in Orlando with a combination of storm water management projects including drainage and canals; and whatever risk management / hedge fund / insurance portfolio Disney has put together.
posted by interogative mood at 10:04 AM on April 27, 2023 [1 favorite]


Flooded Disney world seems like a great story.

My perception of Disney is that they are at best Rainbow Capitalism and don't truly give a damn about their employees other than what blood can be wrung out from them. Someone did the math on profitability for being gay tolerant and it's financially worth it. If it was a few percent points in the other direction? Well.
posted by Jacen at 10:11 AM on April 27, 2023 [1 favorite]


Lawful Masses with Leonard French posted a lengthy analysis on this lawsuit, for those wanting a more detailed view.
posted by 2N2222 at 10:24 AM on April 27, 2023 [3 favorites]


they can’t leave. It’s a laughable, hollow bluff and everyone with any level of business and/or logistical sense knows it

Yeah, I'm rooting for Disney here, but literally THEY CANNOT LEAVE. Where the hell would they get all that land to move it elsewhere, it'd probably cost trillions of dollars. They don't have the ultimate leverage and DeSantis knows they're pinned here forever. That's why I don't have high hopes on this one. There's probably only so much Disney can do, would be my guess. And they're going to lose business because of DeSantis's bigotry being enshrined in the entire state.

I will admit I'm still shocked Disney chose the side of the gays, though. I know they were trying to get that sweet sweet bigot money + the gay money if they could, but I honestly thought they'd pick bigot money over gay when the time came that they HAD to choose. So, props to them for that, at the very least.
posted by jenfullmoon at 10:28 AM on April 27, 2023 [1 favorite]


I will admit I'm still shocked Disney chose the side of the gays, though. I know they were trying to get that sweet sweet bigot money + the gay money if they could, but I honestly thought they'd pick bigot money over gay when the time came that they HAD to choose. So, props to them for that, at the very least.

I could be wrong, but I'd be surprised if they hadn't done the math on this well ahead of time; they aren't interested in losing money and they are a mass-market company, not a social issues company. The reality is that the majority of the population is basically neutral-to-positive on LGB issues (with unfortunately less robust support for the T part of the acronym), just like how most people want regulated-but-available abortion access. Look, for example, at the solid support behind gay marriage recently, compared to just a few years ago. Disney is well aware that the Republican "base" is firmly out of step with the majority on this issue, and I am sure they are (extremely tepidly) meeting their audience where it is, and even more tepidly supporting their employees.

The bigot money is the second- and third-tier advertisers on Tucker's (former) show; mainstream companies are happy to accept the bigot money but by and large recognize that specifically pandering to the bigots is rarely a money maker these days.
posted by Dip Flash at 10:51 AM on April 27, 2023 [8 favorites]


"I will admit I'm still shocked Disney chose the side of the gays, though"

Besides being a popular destination for queer people, Disney World has tons (TONS) of queer employees. My recollection of how this whole shitshow began was that Disney, a company that studiously avoids getting involved in politics, eventually came out against "Don't Say Gay" under employee pressure.
posted by cakelite at 11:01 AM on April 27, 2023 [16 favorites]


Universal Orlando actually does have its own special district, according to this article.

Not at all the same kind of district. That one mainly redirects tax money that would already be paid away from the county's general fund. Disney gets a lot of freedom to do what they want (which made some amount of sense in the context of Walt's original vision of the area being an actual experimental city and not just a collection of theme parks), but pays for the privilege. It's a reflection of the very different political climates of the eras in which they were created. Also the changed character of the Orlando area over the intervening period. When Disney came to town there was no money to squeeze out of the locals. By the time Universal needed I-4 fixed, it had grown dramatically and had a sea of suburbanites to fuck over. (I'm being slightly uncharitable to Universal, but only slightly)
posted by wierdo at 11:03 AM on April 27, 2023


Where the hell would they get all that land to move it elsewhere, it'd probably cost trillions of dollars.

Disney World in Florida is only 25,000 acres, or 43 sq miles. It's not that big. There are ranches you can buy out west at that size in the low millions of dollars range. The largest ranches in the US are 10-20X bigger, so yeah there is land.
posted by The_Vegetables at 11:17 AM on April 27, 2023


There are ranches you can buy out west at that size in the low millions of dollars range. The largest ranches in the US are 10-20X bigger, so yeah there is land

Any of it located in a state that isn't run by demented fascists, though? That tends to be kind of a problem with those "out West" states; they're mostly blood-red Republican.
posted by Pseudonymous Cognomen at 11:38 AM on April 27, 2023 [3 favorites]


The idea that Disney would pack up and move their theme parks out of Florida is absurd and a derail in this thread.
posted by cakelite at 11:44 AM on April 27, 2023 [3 favorites]


Absurd, perhaps, but hardly a derail.
posted by Etrigan at 11:48 AM on April 27, 2023 [6 favorites]


The idea that Disney would pack up and move their theme parks out of Florida is absurd

but what they can do -- and sort of did, in the lawsuit (see point #13) -- is threaten to cancel future investment and job growth in the state. and I wouldn't be surprised if there's a contingency plan in a desk at Disney somewhere that outlines launching Disney 3 somewhere in the Midwest or Texas.

btw Nikki Haley didn't miss the chance to take a shot at her rival. On Fox yesterday she said she'd happily welcome Disney to her state.
posted by martin q blank at 11:51 AM on April 27, 2023 [1 favorite]


Any of it located in a state that isn't run by demented fascists, though?

I'm not really up on what the state lege is up to, but New Mexico has a Democratic governor, an all-D congressional delegation, and plenty of ranchland.

An entirely-bilingual Disneyworld Latino would be a goddamn global tourist destination. I've even picked out an absolutely gorgeous site, fourteen miles outside Santa Fe.

(This is a derail.)
posted by box at 11:53 AM on April 27, 2023 [12 favorites]


but what they can do -- and sort of did, in the lawsuit (see point #13) -- is threaten to cancel future investment and job growth in the state. and I wouldn't be surprised if there's a contingency plan in a desk at Disney somewhere that outlines launching Disney 3 somewhere in the Midwest or Texas.

Disney is planning to move 2000 employees from Burbank to a brand new development in Lake Nona, FL. They've already dumped a good amount of money into infrastructure. The original plan was to complete the move in 2022, but it's slipped to 2026. And with all this going on, I guarantee that they're reconsidering, even with the sunk cost of the development work they've done. 2000 is just a fraction of the 75,000 Disney employees in Florida, but they do represent a significant economic impact.
posted by mr_roboto at 12:17 PM on April 27, 2023 [4 favorites]


Definitely not absurd. As I said earlier, they will have to move someday when Florida is gone. There's no reason to think they wouldn't move sooner if there's something more attractive. It's not like any sum of money it would cost is too much for them. And the customers would come no matter where they are located.
posted by tiny frying pan at 12:40 PM on April 27, 2023


Mentioned the “Disney can/might move” argument to a a very smart person who works in the industry and has for the past decade and they just laughed. Their response was “if anything Disney will figure how to save the peninsula”.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 12:56 PM on April 27, 2023 [3 favorites]


Well, THAT is impossible. There's no stopping water. Plain climate denialism.
posted by tiny frying pan at 12:57 PM on April 27, 2023 [2 favorites]


Any of it located in a state that isn't run by demented fascists, though? That tends to be kind of a problem with those "out West" states; they're mostly blood-red Republican.

I don't mean this rudely, but have you looked at a map? Washington, Oregon, California, Arizona, New Mexico, and Colorado all have Dem governors.

Disney isn't going to move, and if it did it wouldn't move onto a rural western ranch, but the land is certainly there.
posted by Dip Flash at 1:03 PM on April 27, 2023 [2 favorites]


Well, THAT is impossible. There's no stopping water.

The Netherlands would like to have word with you.
posted by 1970s Antihero at 1:03 PM on April 27, 2023 [5 favorites]


As I said earlier, they will have to move someday when Florida is gone.

The average elevation of Florida is 100 ft. Disney World is at about this elevation. High-end estimates for sea level rise by the end of the century are 5-7 ft. Climate change is not going to make water flow uphill.
posted by mr_roboto at 1:08 PM on April 27, 2023 [9 favorites]


The Netherlands are in a completely different situation from Florida, in many ways.
I'd be surprised if Disney wasn't already planning their next move. But obviously, they don't want to move before they have to.
posted by mumimor at 1:11 PM on April 27, 2023


I personally own land that is on a peninsula, above the highest level estimate of water. My land is safe. But there will not be any roads or towns in the area. I'll have to buy a boat to go home. I don't know how that will work for Disney.
posted by mumimor at 1:13 PM on April 27, 2023 [4 favorites]


Storm surges can make water levels much higher.

The Netherlands would like to have word with you.
posted by 1970s Antihero


Huh? My statements on climate change are mild here, folks. The lower third of the the State of Florida might not exist by 2100. Sea surges during storms could make this worse or unpredictable. 2050, the coast we know might be gone. Add in climate refugees and the shift of economy during that time, and anything could happen. I'm certain Disney will continue to exist, but Florida? Drastically different.
posted by tiny frying pan at 1:22 PM on April 27, 2023 [3 favorites]


WaPo: Did DeSantis ‘retaliate’ against Disney? Here’s a look at the evidence.

* DeSantis’s own comments about Disney’s tax status came March 31, three days after Disney’s statement.
* Quickly, though, others said outright that Disney’s criticism of the bill was the impetus and even that Disney was being singled out. “You kick the hornet’s nest, things come up,” another promoter, state Rep. Randy Fine (R), said. “And I will say this: You got me on one thing: This bill does target one company. It targets the Walt Disney Company.”
* Last week, DeSantis responded to Disney’s 11th-hour move with some of his most in-your-face comments to date. He floated raising its taxes or taking other obviously punitive measures, including building a prison near the Magic Kingdom.

Whether the courts will agree isn’t as clear. There is no question that Disney’s criticism of the education legislation was linked to what DeSantis and Florida Republicans did — both because of the timing and, in some cases, by their own admission. Whether it can be proved that the motive was retaliation for protected speech, as Disney claims, is to be determined.

posted by jenfullmoon at 2:55 PM on April 27, 2023


Well, THAT is impossible. There's no stopping water.

The Netherlands would like to have word with you.


The Netherlands would indeed like a word with you:
Telling how the Netherlands could handle a meter rise in sea-level, van Lohuizen explained: "Two meters is becoming very problematic and three meters is catastrophic, which means that there is an option that the capital of the Netherlands (Amsterdam) needs to be relocated, like many other parts of the Western Netherlands, including the big port of Rotterdam."

He also said the Dutch people are worried that the current UN climate change conference in Glasgow might not "bring an agreement. It doesn't look good for the Netherlands."
posted by jamjam at 3:18 PM on April 27, 2023 [7 favorites]


I'm certain Disney will continue to exist,

I agree. As such, this is a derail.
posted by 2N2222 at 3:43 PM on April 27, 2023


> I agree with all that. And yet... Disney's suit won't stop DeSantis, at least not as I understand it. It won't protect any of the people DeSantis is harming, just big business.

So - if Disney losing means that corporations have to re-think their support of the GOP, then I hope they lose. Because their loss doesn't really (further) harm any of the groups you mentioned. It's the "find out" portion of the "fucking around" that Disney and other BigCos have been doing since (at least) the Reagan era by enabling the GOP in order for deregulation, union busting, tax breaks, etc.
I don't think anyone with realistic expectations thinks the suit will cause DeSantis to resign or give up. I certainly don't. But I live here in Florida and I'm watching the horrible shit that he, his surgeon general, and the State Congressional Republican supermajority are doing in this state. DeSantis must not get the opportunity to work his evil on a federal level. Many of us in Florida haven't forgotten the lessons from Trump's win in 2016 and DeSantis' crushing state win in 2022, and we don't underestimate him. If DeSantis' attacks on Disney and this lawsuit peel away enough support that he loses the primary for PotUS -- or heavens forbid he gets that close, the general election -- I'll consider it a major victory.
posted by Fiberoptic Zebroid and The Hypnagogic Jerks at 4:12 PM on April 27, 2023 [16 favorites]


Lawful Masses with Leonard French posted a lengthy analysis on this lawsuit, for those wanting a more detailed view.

I am still in the middle of trying to finish this YouTube analysis on the legal filing. But what I find hilarious about this is that Disney's legal filing includes lots of material from DeSantis's own memoir/quickie presidential campaign book. It's like DeSantis revealed his Evil Secret plans in a long Bond Villian Monologue in a nationally best-selling book & now he's wondering why his plans are being foiled.
posted by jonp72 at 5:22 PM on April 27, 2023 [6 favorites]


I think the biggest threat Disney could toss at DeSantis would be to set up a "Tosche Station" park in Oklahoma or some other Tatooine type desert state (a Mos Eisley in Vegas perhaps?). Or wherever there aren't tornadoes.
posted by rhizome at 10:01 PM on April 27, 2023 [1 favorite]


never, ever bet against their legal squad and corporate planning. They'll hit you from so many directions that you won't even be able to tell.

Let's them and CoS fight
posted by flabdablet at 12:06 AM on April 28, 2023




I would like to point out that Desantis isn't officially running for president. Why? Because per current state law, in order to do so, he would have to resign as governor.

Don't worry, he has his toadies in state legislature (controlled by a Republican supermajority) working to change the law for him.
posted by Badgermann at 6:26 AM on April 28, 2023 [5 favorites]


“Disney regrets that it has come to this.”

GAWRSH!?!
Nope nope nope: Not GAWRSH!?! but rather
YA-HOO-HOO-HOOEY!!!
posted by y2karl at 8:16 AM on April 28, 2023


I think that Disney won't leave Florida over this, they won't even reduce their donations to Republicans for very long. They expect to win the lawsuit and go back to business as usual. Democrats might raise the minimum wage, strengthen labor laws and do other things would hurt Disney's profits and executive bonuses far more than this silly lawsuit. That is the awful truth this whole mess exposes.
posted by interogative mood at 12:12 PM on April 28, 2023 [2 favorites]


fwiw... posted by kliuless at 10:56 PM on April 28, 2023 [1 favorite]


Meanwhile, DeSantis has started selling hats with his name written in the Disney logo font.

Or, as Adam Weinstein tweeted (over a picture of the hats):
"Time for us to attack Disney where they're weakest: copyright and trademark"
posted by cheshyre at 6:15 AM on April 29, 2023 [10 favorites]






> My perception of Disney is that they are at best Rainbow Capitalism and don't truly give a damn about their employees other than what blood can be wrung out from them.

The Pixar acquisition was 2006 and the "no poaching" anti-trust litigation covered 2005 to 2009, so they at least tacitly supported collusion to depress wages.
posted by ASCII Costanza head at 10:21 AM on April 29, 2023


Oh they are absolutely rainbow capitalism.

And to the degree that they are progressive they’re the kind that’s okay loosing on progressive causes once in a while if it means keeping taxes down and the unions at bay. Very center dem.

As such creating a Florida that’s so incompatible with them and causes them to do this is really something that takes some doing.

I can’t even be “let them fight” about it, it’s “glad they’ve been backed into fighting and not supporting those Nazis, I hope it fucks up the Nazis very bad.”
posted by Artw at 10:48 AM on April 29, 2023 [3 favorites]


My perception of Disney is that they are at best Rainbow Capitalism

Oh, absolutely. They're basically Uncle Moneybags in a mouse costume.

But here's the thing: conservatism, especially social conservatism, is bad for business on long timescales.

We think of the Republicans—as a result of their own propaganda, mostly—as the "party of business", but they're really just the party of deregulation and shady public-to-private wealth transfers. Great if your business plan is one step up from a mafia bust-out scheme (extractive industries, labor theft, market-cornering/monopolism, rent seeking, etc.), but surprisingly not great if you're in a creative industry that relies on a reasonably strong middle-class, and especially if you're in it for the long haul. And Disney has generally been a long-haul sort of corporation. They're one of a few companies that routinely sell 100-year corporate paper.

If you "backtest" conservative ideology, they've basically been consistently on the wrong side of history since... the fall of Rome? Earlier? (The only ideological win that conservatives can really claim recently is basically "Stalinism is bad, yo", and it seems like a bit of a broken-clock situation... not that they're going to ever stop talking about it.)

Disney—at least parts of Disney—probably realize this. (Which isn't to say that they're not up for engaging in shitty extractive/rentier capitalism if the opportunity exists.) Politicians come and go, but Disney intends to be around forever. At least in part, along with mollifying their employees and their upper-middle-class/high-disposable-income customer base, I think that's why Disney is willing to push back against DeSantis. They're not going to let a mere state governor fuck with them or their plans.
posted by Kadin2048 at 12:25 PM on April 29, 2023 [11 favorites]


Honestly maybe Florida needs it’s money transparently stolen like this as a wake up, presuming such a thing is possible for them.

I've heard they're very against wokeness down there.
posted by axiom at 12:13 PM on May 3, 2023 [1 favorite]


Disney is planning to move 2000 employees from Burbank to a brand new development in Lake Nona, FL. They've already dumped a good amount of money into infrastructure. The original plan was to complete the move in 2022, but it's slipped to 2026. And with all this going on, I guarantee that they're reconsidering, even with the sunk cost of the development work they've done. 2000 is just a fraction of the 75,000 Disney employees in Florida, but they do represent a significant economic impact.

Disney pulled the plug on the move to Lake Nona today. A $2B investment to move 2000 jobs to Florida scrapped.
posted by mr_roboto at 4:54 PM on May 18, 2023 [5 favorites]


Possibly related: Disney is closing its new Galactic Starcruiser resort this September.
posted by Mchelly at 5:21 PM on May 18, 2023 [1 favorite]


Disney pulled the plug on the move to Lake Nona today. A $2B investment to move 2000 jobs to Florida scrapped.

Disney has been dangling the threat of this move over its imagineers since pre COVID times and I am sure they are very happy to have it lifted.
posted by Artw at 5:27 PM on May 18, 2023 [5 favorites]


There are rumblings that one of the long term Guantanamo detainees, Ammar al-Baluchi, could be released soon.

He was tortured, apparently in part simply in order to allow interrogators to gauge the effectiveness of their techniques.

And wouldn’t it be amusing if he were able to shed new light on DeSantis' currently very obscure time there as a JAG officer?

I really don’t look for those kinds of wheels-within-wheels machinations from Biden, but maybe one of the reasons it’s difficult to teach an old dog new tricks is that they know so many already.
posted by jamjam at 10:18 AM on May 19, 2023 [1 favorite]


not sure anyone is going to care about a Republican being a weird torture freak, that sort of thing only seems to enhance their reputation.
posted by Artw at 10:45 AM on May 19, 2023 [2 favorites]


You really think that?

Torture allegations dogged both W and Romney, and DeSantis already has bigtime 'uncanny valley face' issues.
posted by jamjam at 11:04 AM on May 19, 2023


Not really aware of it being a significant problem with Republicans for either of those guys or really anywhere else. They’re both considered fun cuddly elder statesmen now.
posted by Artw at 11:25 AM on May 19, 2023 [2 favorites]


The Casey DeSantis Problem (Politico)
posted by box at 5:24 PM on May 19, 2023


The Ginni to his Clarence…
posted by Artw at 5:27 PM on May 19, 2023




Elon Musk Is Going to Try to Make Ron DeSantis Cool

It would help to actually be cool, or at least demonstrate knowledge of how to be, before attempting to make someone else seem cool.
posted by Artifice_Eternity at 4:48 PM on May 23, 2023 [2 favorites]


I’m taking it as an example of an extremely cruel headline and frankly both of them deserve it.
posted by Artw at 5:34 PM on May 23, 2023 [6 favorites]


I'm reminded of a diss from a client that a friend and I were doing some work for: "putting you two together is like having one good employee."
posted by rhizome at 8:05 PM on May 23, 2023 [1 favorite]


Free speech absolutist Elon Musk will host Ron “It is illegal to say Gay” DeSantis.
posted by interogative mood at 10:08 PM on May 23, 2023 [3 favorites]


Ron DeSantis has a problem. It's Florida. (Politico)
posted by box at 4:39 AM on May 24, 2023 [1 favorite]


Wow that really, really understates how terrifying Florida and the prospect of Republicans making the US into Florida is.
posted by Artw at 5:34 AM on May 24, 2023


Oh, it's gone full on fascist down here. People the governor doesn't like are being investigated, their kids are being prosecuted for kid shit that never gets prosecuted normally, thanks to literal spies being inserted into their chat groups, and more.. Plus the whole Disney thing. It's gone well beyond controlling education and otherwise inserting ideologues in places they have no business being.
posted by wierdo at 8:24 AM on May 24, 2023 [2 favorites]


Yeah, the Florida Man/Carl Hiaason/Running joke in The Good Place type stuff referenced by the article now seems incredibly quaint and old-timey.
posted by Artw at 9:25 AM on May 24, 2023


I never thought I would be on the side of the Disney Corporation about anything, but man I really want them to start fucking with Ron DeSantis. Moving investments out of the state is just the beginning. Disney isn't just the parks, it's a huge media conglomerate that could hypothetically make his life miserable in many ways. How about a ten-episode "20/20" expose of all the crap he's doing down here? How about a really obnoxious character in the next Star Wars movie ("Jar Jar DeSantis"!) How about the next bonus round phrase on Celebrity Wheel of Fortune is "RON DESANTIS IS A GIANT DOUCHE"? I know, I know, I'm joking. To keep from crying about not being able to move out of this shitshow of a state.
posted by Daily Alice at 9:28 AM on May 24, 2023 [6 favorites]


As pointed out above left to their own devices I think Disney is, at most, up for some light rainbow capitalism. But DeSantis really has gone out of his way to push them into a corner where pushback is inevitable. They were absolutely going to send those employees to hell before and now they won’t, and that’s entirely his doing.
posted by Artw at 11:16 AM on May 24, 2023 [2 favorites]


Another weird Politico profile that ignores the obvious - this one about him being “stuffy”. Neither are positive as such but it’s weird he’s getting all this coverage now that ignores his actual political effect.
posted by Artw at 11:40 AM on May 24, 2023 [1 favorite]


Right now the NY Times has the headline: "DeSantis Announcement Derailed by Twitter Malfunction."

Yes, Elon is making him very cool indeed.
posted by Dip Flash at 4:00 PM on May 24, 2023 [3 favorites]


Can we start calling it Foxxer now?
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 4:29 PM on May 24, 2023


Fox News actually had a great burn on Twitter, with a popup saying "Breaking News Programming Alert: Want to actually see and hear Ron DeSantis? Tune into Fox News at 8pm" and a photo of Elon with "Amateur Hour" in big text on it.
posted by Dip Flash at 4:56 PM on May 24, 2023 [2 favorites]




But he totally expected that to happen, and his engineers are even now gathering valuable data.
posted by flabdablet at 10:50 PM on May 24, 2023 [3 favorites]


engineers

Plural?
posted by rhizome at 11:51 PM on May 24, 2023 [5 favorites]


« Older Why are things so heavy in the future?   |   Omissions of This Magnitude Have Consequences Newer »


This thread has been archived and is closed to new comments