Matt Murdoch's Murder-Free 34 Hours
May 24, 2023 11:23 AM Subscribe
Daredevil is Present and the Police Arrive Later - David Brothers dissects Daredevil #304 and takes a look at superheroes, race and policing.
This has me thinking of this old Kotaku article from a few years ago regarding Insomniac's Spider-Man games.
“One of the earliest things you do in Spider-Man is go around activating security towers, made by Oscorp but used by the NYPD, that make it easier for Spider-Man to track crimes as they happen. Narratively, these towers allow the police to better surveil citizens; they also give Spider-Man access to police frequencies. They’re always listening, giving out calls to car chases and telling the player about break-in attempts that Spider-Man can thwart before the crime occurs. The uncritical use of these towers struck some players, especially those who live in New York, as odd. An NYU Game Center scholar took to Twitter to note similarities between these towers and the real world real NYC security cameras that IBM recently used to make skin-color profiling technology. Meanwhile, Spider-Man’s enthusiasm for the police—from his stated love of busting drug deals to his cheesy “Spider-Cop” impersonation—had my coworker Tim Rogers calling Spidey a “narc.” While I found Spider-Man as good-hearted and heroic as ever, he was also way more accepting of state power than I expected from a hero with a history of being wrongly maligned by the press and police.”posted by Fizz at 12:18 PM on May 24, 2023 [5 favorites]
That was always the kind of storytelling I really loved in comics (and yes, that issue is still sitting in the basement). I'd take that kind of story over the big, dumb, hero vs. villain battles any day of the week and twice on Sundays.
posted by sardonyx at 12:32 PM on May 24, 2023
posted by sardonyx at 12:32 PM on May 24, 2023
Disney/Marvel's Falcon and the Winter Soldier tv series also explores that tension of a superhero who is too often aligned with government/state/police surveillance apparatus. It's complicated by the fact that Falcon is picking up the shield and stepping into a larger role as Captain America. There are a few episodes toward the end of that first season that address what it means to have a black Captain America in a United States that does not value brown/black voices and bodies. It doesn't lean into this as hard as I would like but I'm not surprised, Disney/Marvel are pretty superficial about the way they address politics in their comic adaptations.
One thing I will say is that of all the comic worlds and universes that explore these ideas of superheroes, policing, & race, I think X-men does it best b/c of the very nature of mutants/deviants/meta-humans being analogs for oppressed/disenfranchised groups/peoples.
From the Mutant wiki (Marvel Comics):
One thing I will say is that of all the comic worlds and universes that explore these ideas of superheroes, policing, & race, I think X-men does it best b/c of the very nature of mutants/deviants/meta-humans being analogs for oppressed/disenfranchised groups/peoples.
From the Mutant wiki (Marvel Comics):
“In his article Super Heroes, a Modern Mythology, Richard Reynolds writes:posted by Fizz at 12:37 PM on May 24, 2023 [1 favorite]
Much of the appeal and draw of the mutants that comprise the X-Men has to do with feeling like an outcast while simultaneously feeling like part of a family. Mutants are ostracized because they are different but they bound together because of their differences. They may be forced together to a certain extent like 'real' families but they are also a team. They differ from other teams such as the Justice League, which is like a meritocracy; only the best of the best join that team. In contrast, the X-Men is composed of outcasts. They train and nurture one another and are united by common goals and beliefs. ...the whole theme of the X-Men — the isolation of mutants and their alienation from 'normal' society — may be read as a parable of the alienation of any minority... of a minority grouping determined to force its own place within society.”
The issue with the "mutant metaphor" is that it is problematic, given that there are legitimate reasons to be afraid of mutants given what their powers can do, which makes it a messy mapping to real world bigotries.
posted by NoxAeternum at 1:11 PM on May 24, 2023 [6 favorites]
posted by NoxAeternum at 1:11 PM on May 24, 2023 [6 favorites]
I'm not really involved with comic books much but I did read this article, and I found it conflicted in that it is framing this as "murder-free" time because of the actions of Daredevil, but a lot of the deaths described as being prevented, like a baby buggy being caught in the gap at the train, aren't murders, just deaths.
posted by hippybear at 1:18 PM on May 24, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by hippybear at 1:18 PM on May 24, 2023 [1 favorite]
The issue with the "mutant metaphor" is that it is problematic, given that there are legitimate reasons to be afraid of mutants given what their powers can do, which makes it a messy mapping to real world bigotries.
You're right, its definitely messy, but the "mutant metaphor" does at least operate as a power fantasy because in the real world, individuals/minority-groups are largely divorced from any agency b/c of the structural systems that are in place to keep them oppressed. It's not perfect at all, but characters like Dr. Xavier & Magneto let us explore this tension in very interesting ways, their philosophical and ethical debates are fascinating to untangle and contemplate.
posted by Fizz at 1:20 PM on May 24, 2023
You're right, its definitely messy, but the "mutant metaphor" does at least operate as a power fantasy because in the real world, individuals/minority-groups are largely divorced from any agency b/c of the structural systems that are in place to keep them oppressed. It's not perfect at all, but characters like Dr. Xavier & Magneto let us explore this tension in very interesting ways, their philosophical and ethical debates are fascinating to untangle and contemplate.
posted by Fizz at 1:20 PM on May 24, 2023
I'm not really involved with comic books much but I did read this article, and I found it conflicted in that it is framing this as "murder-free" time because of the actions of Daredevil, but a lot of the deaths described as being prevented, like a baby buggy being caught in the gap at the train, aren't murders, just deaths.
Technically less an issue with the article and more something you’re going to want to take up with D.G. Chichester circa 1992. I wonder if anyone spotted that and won a no-prize for it.
posted by Artw at 1:27 PM on May 24, 2023 [1 favorite]
Technically less an issue with the article and more something you’re going to want to take up with D.G. Chichester circa 1992. I wonder if anyone spotted that and won a no-prize for it.
posted by Artw at 1:27 PM on May 24, 2023 [1 favorite]
Daredevil's super superpower — the one he has in addition to the usual — is to know precognitively, yet largely unconsciously where in the City the max nexus of simultaneous and individually improbable disasters will come together and magnify each other, yet all of which he can resolve to favorability (or harmlessness, at least) with a single tumbling pass like a segment of an Olympic floor exercise routine.
It reminds me of an SF story I read in an anthology (Pohl's Star of Stars, maybe?) which is also set in Greenwich Village, and also revolves around a nexus of improbabilties: Stephen Barr's I am a Nucleus, which appeared in a 1957 issue of Galaxy magazine.
I thought this story was hilarious as a kid, and it’s still fun though full of stereotypes, one of which is mean-spirited. It also has a lot of cops, but their stereotypes are light years from the ones we have now.
It also features kind of an amazing anticipation of time crystals:
posted by jamjam at 1:43 PM on May 24, 2023 [2 favorites]
It reminds me of an SF story I read in an anthology (Pohl's Star of Stars, maybe?) which is also set in Greenwich Village, and also revolves around a nexus of improbabilties: Stephen Barr's I am a Nucleus, which appeared in a 1957 issue of Galaxy magazine.
I thought this story was hilarious as a kid, and it’s still fun though full of stereotypes, one of which is mean-spirited. It also has a lot of cops, but their stereotypes are light years from the ones we have now.
It also features kind of an amazing anticipation of time crystals:
"Why did you mention a crystal before? Why not a life-form?"Maybe that ought not to surprise me, since before I read the story I knew Stephen Barr as an author of popular math books, such as Adventures in Topology.
"Only an analogy," said McGill. "A crystal resembles life in that it has a definite shape and exhibits growth, but that's all. I'll agree this—thing—has no discernible shape and motion is involved, but plants don't move and amebas have no shape. Then a crystal feeds, but it does not convert what it feeds on; it merely rearranges it into a non-random pattern. In this case, it's rearranging random motions and it has a nucleus and it seems to be growing—at least in what you might call improbability."
Molly frowned. "Then what is it? What's it made of?"
"I should say it was made of the motions. There's a similar idea about the atom. Another thing that's like a crystal is that it appears to be forming around a nucleus not of its own material—the way a speck of sand thrown into a supersaturated solution becomes the nucleus of crystallization."
posted by jamjam at 1:43 PM on May 24, 2023 [2 favorites]
This reminds me of Daredevil #191, which similarly deals with some big, deep issues.
posted by The Card Cheat at 1:45 PM on May 24, 2023
posted by The Card Cheat at 1:45 PM on May 24, 2023
It doesn't lean into this as hard as I would like but I'm not surprised, Disney/Marvel are pretty superficial about the way they address politics in their comic adaptations.
If you haven't, check out the 2003 mini-series Truth: Red, White & Black. It tells the story of how the US government horrifically experimented on Black men to develop the super-soldier serum that would give Captain America his powers and then further mistreated and discarded the lone successful test subject when they were done with him, with explicit parallels to the infamous Tuskegee Experiments. The Falcon and the Winter Soldier took certain elements and characters from this but changed a lot in ways that really defang the work.
Looking back, it's pretty astonishing that Marvel published this at all. The "anti-woke" crowd would lose their minds if they tried something like this today.
posted by star gentle uterus at 2:39 PM on May 24, 2023 [8 favorites]
If you haven't, check out the 2003 mini-series Truth: Red, White & Black. It tells the story of how the US government horrifically experimented on Black men to develop the super-soldier serum that would give Captain America his powers and then further mistreated and discarded the lone successful test subject when they were done with him, with explicit parallels to the infamous Tuskegee Experiments. The Falcon and the Winter Soldier took certain elements and characters from this but changed a lot in ways that really defang the work.
Looking back, it's pretty astonishing that Marvel published this at all. The "anti-woke" crowd would lose their minds if they tried something like this today.
posted by star gentle uterus at 2:39 PM on May 24, 2023 [8 favorites]
Most of comic book history has been struggling to make the anti-woke crowd's collective heads explode over and over, going back generations.
posted by hippybear at 2:54 PM on May 24, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by hippybear at 2:54 PM on May 24, 2023 [3 favorites]
Chip Zdarsky had an interesting run of Daredevil comics shortly after he took over writing the book in 2019.
A small-time crook DD is fighting cracks his head on the pavement as a result of our hero knocking him down - and dies. Daredevil surrenders himself to the police, goes through the system and serves time in prison for causing this death, feeling he has to do so in order to vindicate Matt Murdoch's faith in the law.
The book fudged the killing eventually, suggesting some sort of conspiracy against Daredevil was responsible for the crook's death rather than DD's own violence, which drew the teeth of the original scene somewhat, but it made for a very interesting story arc while it lasted.
posted by Paul Slade at 3:12 PM on May 24, 2023 [1 favorite]
A small-time crook DD is fighting cracks his head on the pavement as a result of our hero knocking him down - and dies. Daredevil surrenders himself to the police, goes through the system and serves time in prison for causing this death, feeling he has to do so in order to vindicate Matt Murdoch's faith in the law.
The book fudged the killing eventually, suggesting some sort of conspiracy against Daredevil was responsible for the crook's death rather than DD's own violence, which drew the teeth of the original scene somewhat, but it made for a very interesting story arc while it lasted.
posted by Paul Slade at 3:12 PM on May 24, 2023 [1 favorite]
but the "mutant metaphor" does at least operate as a power fantasy
This goes back to at least Superman being essentially a retelling of the Golem story, a supernatural being of unimaginable power that protects the oppressed from the oppressor, as written by two Jews, Siegel and Shuster.
Also, as far as the PS4 Spider-man game, yes, the whole aspect of Spider-man as a super cop was deeply unsettling. It's not that Spider-man hasn't ever had a good relationship (from time to time) with cops, but the game leaned way too hard into it, making a significant amount of the early story unpleasant.
Oddly, it pushed me to playing the game less faithfully to the character than I would have otherwise. Anytime there was a notification of someone (gasp) selling drugs, with the implication that I was supposed to go and stop it, I would ignore it, while Peter Parker probably wouldn't have. Looking back, yeah, Parker would probably intervene, but in a "protecting the community" kind of way, not in a "I gotta help the cops" way. It was an enjoyable game to play, the mechanics were a lot of fun, but the pro-cop-ness of it really cut into that enjoyment.
posted by Ghidorah at 5:34 PM on May 24, 2023 [3 favorites]
This goes back to at least Superman being essentially a retelling of the Golem story, a supernatural being of unimaginable power that protects the oppressed from the oppressor, as written by two Jews, Siegel and Shuster.
Also, as far as the PS4 Spider-man game, yes, the whole aspect of Spider-man as a super cop was deeply unsettling. It's not that Spider-man hasn't ever had a good relationship (from time to time) with cops, but the game leaned way too hard into it, making a significant amount of the early story unpleasant.
Oddly, it pushed me to playing the game less faithfully to the character than I would have otherwise. Anytime there was a notification of someone (gasp) selling drugs, with the implication that I was supposed to go and stop it, I would ignore it, while Peter Parker probably wouldn't have. Looking back, yeah, Parker would probably intervene, but in a "protecting the community" kind of way, not in a "I gotta help the cops" way. It was an enjoyable game to play, the mechanics were a lot of fun, but the pro-cop-ness of it really cut into that enjoyment.
posted by Ghidorah at 5:34 PM on May 24, 2023 [3 favorites]
First of all, I own this issue. Bought it retail back in my collecting days and even then I knew it was something special.
But notwithstanding all the good critique in the article, that actor running around Washington Square Park with a prop handgun is still a fucking idiot. I say this as a former NYU film student, if I had done that my professor would have flunked me for the semester.
posted by The Pluto Gangsta at 7:00 PM on May 24, 2023 [4 favorites]
But notwithstanding all the good critique in the article, that actor running around Washington Square Park with a prop handgun is still a fucking idiot. I say this as a former NYU film student, if I had done that my professor would have flunked me for the semester.
posted by The Pluto Gangsta at 7:00 PM on May 24, 2023 [4 favorites]
OK, upon reflection the director of this BS student film probably would deserve at least 51% of the blame, but still.
posted by The Pluto Gangsta at 7:34 PM on May 24, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by The Pluto Gangsta at 7:34 PM on May 24, 2023 [3 favorites]
This goes back to at least Superman being essentially a retelling of the Golem story, a supernatural being of unimaginable power that protects the oppressed from the oppressor, as written by two Jews, Siegel and Shuster.
With an 'S' on his chest in place of 'אמת' on its forehead.
I never would have seen that on my own.
posted by jamjam at 8:51 PM on May 24, 2023 [2 favorites]
With an 'S' on his chest in place of 'אמת' on its forehead.
I never would have seen that on my own.
posted by jamjam at 8:51 PM on May 24, 2023 [2 favorites]
Because it's a little dicey, as interpretations go. Superman isn't an artificially-created being, for one thing.
Superman more neatly fits into another Jewish story, that of Moses: a child separated from his parents and sent to a far-off land, found and raised by others, eventually discovers his true heritage and the power that comes with it and uses that power to protect the oppressed.
posted by star gentle uterus at 8:58 PM on May 24, 2023 [9 favorites]
Superman more neatly fits into another Jewish story, that of Moses: a child separated from his parents and sent to a far-off land, found and raised by others, eventually discovers his true heritage and the power that comes with it and uses that power to protect the oppressed.
posted by star gentle uterus at 8:58 PM on May 24, 2023 [9 favorites]
star gentle uterus, the only disconnect with Moses is that Superman isn’t a prophet, and never purports to bring a message from on high, he is, until later interpretations, a doer, one who protects, saves, rights wrongs. He’s the one who acts, whose power is his own, whereas Moses was punished for laying claim to the powers he wielded on behalf of god.
For me, the best explanation of the golem view of Superman came in The Amazing Adventures of Cavalier and Clay by Michael Chabon, though it’s been far, far too long since I read it. The idea is not that Superman, in his own stories, is a golem like creation, it’s that the idea of Superman is itself the creation, that the stories of a kind, just hero protecting the weak and providing an ideal to strive to is, according to that idea, the golem, the creation of Siegel and Shuster.
posted by Ghidorah at 4:23 AM on May 25, 2023 [3 favorites]
For me, the best explanation of the golem view of Superman came in The Amazing Adventures of Cavalier and Clay by Michael Chabon, though it’s been far, far too long since I read it. The idea is not that Superman, in his own stories, is a golem like creation, it’s that the idea of Superman is itself the creation, that the stories of a kind, just hero protecting the weak and providing an ideal to strive to is, according to that idea, the golem, the creation of Siegel and Shuster.
posted by Ghidorah at 4:23 AM on May 25, 2023 [3 favorites]
the only disconnect with Moses is that Superman isn’t a prophet,
I think there's a reason Siegel chose to give Superman the "Man of Tomorrow" appellation in 1939's New York World's Fair Comics #1, just one year after the character's debut. He's always borne a message of a better future. Grant Morrison's All-Star Superman is probably the best distillation of this.
posted by star gentle uterus at 11:10 AM on May 25, 2023 [2 favorites]
I think there's a reason Siegel chose to give Superman the "Man of Tomorrow" appellation in 1939's New York World's Fair Comics #1, just one year after the character's debut. He's always borne a message of a better future. Grant Morrison's All-Star Superman is probably the best distillation of this.
posted by star gentle uterus at 11:10 AM on May 25, 2023 [2 favorites]
I’ll agree with you on All-Star Superman being an absolutely fantastic Superman story that captures the best of the character. Morrison’s run on JLA (complete with dumb blue laser Superman!) is similarly fantastic.
posted by Ghidorah at 4:06 PM on May 25, 2023
posted by Ghidorah at 4:06 PM on May 25, 2023
Very good comparison of the X-Men’s model of mutantness with Wagner & Ezquerra’s Strontium Dog here: Dog Loves, Man Kills: Catharsis and Revolutionary Anger in Strontium Dog.
posted by Artw at 5:44 PM on May 25, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by Artw at 5:44 PM on May 25, 2023 [2 favorites]
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