"The bats have left the bell tower"
June 5, 2023 4:17 PM Subscribe
Former F.B.I agent turned spy Robert Hanssen has died.
'The Spycatcher' pt.1 and 2. (EP. 2-3)
A podcast centered on Eric O'Neill. 'Robert Hanssen: Top 5 lessons learned'
'The Spycatcher' pt.1 and 2. (EP. 2-3)
A podcast centered on Eric O'Neill. 'Robert Hanssen: Top 5 lessons learned'
The Personal Life section of the wiki entry is a bit of an eye opener.
posted by thatwhichfalls at 4:43 PM on June 5, 2023 [8 favorites]
posted by thatwhichfalls at 4:43 PM on June 5, 2023 [8 favorites]
The biggest crime here was the length and conditions of incarceration.
Conditions, yes. Supermax prisons are torture.
Length? Dunno. He sold information which directly led to people being executed for doing the same sort of thing he was doing.
posted by Ickster at 4:51 PM on June 5, 2023 [16 favorites]
Conditions, yes. Supermax prisons are torture.
Length? Dunno. He sold information which directly led to people being executed for doing the same sort of thing he was doing.
posted by Ickster at 4:51 PM on June 5, 2023 [16 favorites]
The biggest crime here was the length and conditions of incarceration.
I vehemently agree with your objection on his supermax imprisonment, but Hanssen having not merely been a traitor but reasonably accountable for the death of many intel sources, I have no issue with the stack of life sentences.
posted by tclark at 4:53 PM on June 5, 2023 [21 favorites]
I vehemently agree with your objection on his supermax imprisonment, but Hanssen having not merely been a traitor but reasonably accountable for the death of many intel sources, I have no issue with the stack of life sentences.
posted by tclark at 4:53 PM on June 5, 2023 [21 favorites]
bad. dude.
posted by j_curiouser at 5:21 PM on June 5, 2023
posted by j_curiouser at 5:21 PM on June 5, 2023
Life in prison seems wholly appropriate given Hanssen’s crimes. No complaints here about the length of sentence. Supermax should be abolished.
But no sympathy about the length of sentence. People likely died as a result of his actions. He had ample opportunities to stop - he was caught by his wife, then confessed to his priest and said he’d stop spying. He resumed. The Soviet Union collapsed, he could’ve stopped then. He didn’t! He sought out the new regime and kept spying.
The only thing more criminal than Hanssen is the fact that he managed bungle his way through 20 years of passing secrets to various iterations of Russian spy agencies without being caught. Really does not give one a feeling of competence and confidence in the FBI…
posted by jzb at 5:52 PM on June 5, 2023 [11 favorites]
But no sympathy about the length of sentence. People likely died as a result of his actions. He had ample opportunities to stop - he was caught by his wife, then confessed to his priest and said he’d stop spying. He resumed. The Soviet Union collapsed, he could’ve stopped then. He didn’t! He sought out the new regime and kept spying.
The only thing more criminal than Hanssen is the fact that he managed bungle his way through 20 years of passing secrets to various iterations of Russian spy agencies without being caught. Really does not give one a feeling of competence and confidence in the FBI…
posted by jzb at 5:52 PM on June 5, 2023 [11 favorites]
Yeah, I also don't have a huge problem with the length of the sentence, but even if you think Supermax can be justified in some cases, I can't see any good justification for putting him there. He's hardly a flight risk, being a dumpy middle aged guy even when he was caught, and it's not like he's personally ever been violent or directly hurt someone, there's obviously no risk of repeat offenses even if he should escape, he's not a danger to society... Just hard to wrap my head around the logic here, other than "He did something very bad so we'll put him in the prison that's most horrible to be in as extra torture".
posted by Joakim Ziegler at 6:06 PM on June 5, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by Joakim Ziegler at 6:06 PM on June 5, 2023 [3 favorites]
до свидания, asshole.
What always disturbs me is not simply that someone would sell the lives of other people—I firmly believe for every person there is a price or inducement that will get them to do anything—but that so many seem to do it so cheaply.
At the end of the day, he's no better than a mafioso hitman. Fitting that he probably died surrounded by them.
posted by Kadin2048 at 6:09 PM on June 5, 2023 [7 favorites]
What always disturbs me is not simply that someone would sell the lives of other people—I firmly believe for every person there is a price or inducement that will get them to do anything—but that so many seem to do it so cheaply.
At the end of the day, he's no better than a mafioso hitman. Fitting that he probably died surrounded by them.
posted by Kadin2048 at 6:09 PM on June 5, 2023 [7 favorites]
His Wikipedia page is a hell of a read top to bottom.
posted by kbanas at 6:28 PM on June 5, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by kbanas at 6:28 PM on June 5, 2023 [2 favorites]
People likely died as a result of his actions.
People definitely died as a result of his actions. Dmitri Polyakov, Valery Martynov, and Sergei Motorin were all executed after being betrayed by both Hanssen and Aldrich Ames, a CIA traitor.
The only thing more criminal than Hanssen is the fact that he managed bungle his way through 20 years of passing secrets to various iterations of Russian spy agencies without being caught.
"[Hanssen] was tasked with studying all known and rumored penetrations of the FBI to find the man who had betrayed Martynov and Motorin; this meant, in effect, that he was charged with searching for himself." No Way Out style.
He did something very bad so we'll put him in the prison that's most horrible to be in as extra torture
Well, punishment for treason has traditionally been hardcode.
posted by kirkaracha at 6:31 PM on June 5, 2023 [2 favorites]
People definitely died as a result of his actions. Dmitri Polyakov, Valery Martynov, and Sergei Motorin were all executed after being betrayed by both Hanssen and Aldrich Ames, a CIA traitor.
The only thing more criminal than Hanssen is the fact that he managed bungle his way through 20 years of passing secrets to various iterations of Russian spy agencies without being caught.
"[Hanssen] was tasked with studying all known and rumored penetrations of the FBI to find the man who had betrayed Martynov and Motorin; this meant, in effect, that he was charged with searching for himself." No Way Out style.
He did something very bad so we'll put him in the prison that's most horrible to be in as extra torture
Well, punishment for treason has traditionally been hardcode.
posted by kirkaracha at 6:31 PM on June 5, 2023 [2 favorites]
if you think Supermax can be justified in some cases, I can't see any good justification for putting him there.
I recall an interview with a federal prosecutor where the journalist made the same observation. The federal prosecutor replied that the location and nature of the confinement were determined by the Bureau of Prisons, not the FBI or prosecutors, but speculated about several things that might have lead the BOP to decide on supermax confinement: (1) Hanssen knew additional national secrets that he could disclose to fellow prisoners if given the opportunity and he wasn't all that convincing in his promise to not do so, (2) reluctance to imprison him in conditions where he might have access to prison computers given his demonstrated ability at hacking, (3) concern that his status as a high profile traitor might draw violence from other prisoners, and (4) the admittedly remote possibility the SVR might try to extract him from a less secure prison as a way to encourage future leakers.
Nonetheless, none of those reasons struck me at the time as particularly credible reasons for confining him in a supermax unit.
posted by RichardP at 6:56 PM on June 5, 2023 [4 favorites]
I recall an interview with a federal prosecutor where the journalist made the same observation. The federal prosecutor replied that the location and nature of the confinement were determined by the Bureau of Prisons, not the FBI or prosecutors, but speculated about several things that might have lead the BOP to decide on supermax confinement: (1) Hanssen knew additional national secrets that he could disclose to fellow prisoners if given the opportunity and he wasn't all that convincing in his promise to not do so, (2) reluctance to imprison him in conditions where he might have access to prison computers given his demonstrated ability at hacking, (3) concern that his status as a high profile traitor might draw violence from other prisoners, and (4) the admittedly remote possibility the SVR might try to extract him from a less secure prison as a way to encourage future leakers.
Nonetheless, none of those reasons struck me at the time as particularly credible reasons for confining him in a supermax unit.
posted by RichardP at 6:56 PM on June 5, 2023 [4 favorites]
The biggest crime here was the length and conditions of incarceration.
In a purely utilitarian sense, getting multiple people murdered seems much worse than twenty years of true hell for one individual, but Supermaxes are obviously horrible and I’m mostly angry that I’m making the comparison at all. There’s no percentage in comparing nadirs. (Aldrich Ames is in a medium security unit, for comparison.)
The I Spy episodes linked above are great, by the way! Hanssen being both an abusive boss and Opus Dei member isn’t particularly significant relative to his crimes, but it does add a bit of a chef’s kiss of unpleasantness to him. (And yeah, that Wikipedia page, whoosh.)
posted by Going To Maine at 12:35 AM on June 6, 2023 [2 favorites]
In a purely utilitarian sense, getting multiple people murdered seems much worse than twenty years of true hell for one individual, but Supermaxes are obviously horrible and I’m mostly angry that I’m making the comparison at all. There’s no percentage in comparing nadirs. (Aldrich Ames is in a medium security unit, for comparison.)
The I Spy episodes linked above are great, by the way! Hanssen being both an abusive boss and Opus Dei member isn’t particularly significant relative to his crimes, but it does add a bit of a chef’s kiss of unpleasantness to him. (And yeah, that Wikipedia page, whoosh.)
posted by Going To Maine at 12:35 AM on June 6, 2023 [2 favorites]
My first apartment in DC was two blocks west of the Russian embassy complex. Gave me heebie jeebies to contemplate all the nefarious activities that went down there. My building's basement had a locked room and no one had a key; we joked about it being another tunnel from the embassy, which it truly may have been.
posted by wicked_sassy at 12:38 AM on June 6, 2023
posted by wicked_sassy at 12:38 AM on June 6, 2023
People definitely died as a result of his actions. Dmitri Polyakov, Valery Martynov, and Sergei Motorin were all executed after being betrayed
Also, fuck him for ruining Brian Kelley's life.
posted by NotMyselfRightNow at 4:08 AM on June 6, 2023 [1 favorite]
Also, fuck him for ruining Brian Kelley's life.
posted by NotMyselfRightNow at 4:08 AM on June 6, 2023 [1 favorite]
I can't dredge up much sympathy
If there was ever anyone who knew how the game was played going in, it was Hanssen.
posted by 2N2222 at 5:44 AM on June 6, 2023 [1 favorite]
If there was ever anyone who knew how the game was played going in, it was Hanssen.
posted by 2N2222 at 5:44 AM on June 6, 2023 [1 favorite]
Seconding the I Spy episodes, his capture is an amazing story, told first-person by the guy that finally got him.
posted by mcstayinskool at 6:28 AM on June 6, 2023
posted by mcstayinskool at 6:28 AM on June 6, 2023
Aldrich Ames was responsible for more people being executed, but got one life sentence at a medium-security federal prison.
posted by kirkaracha at 8:05 AM on June 6, 2023
posted by kirkaracha at 8:05 AM on June 6, 2023
Maybe the disproportionate punishment was for "Mmmbop."
posted by kirkaracha at 8:14 AM on June 6, 2023
posted by kirkaracha at 8:14 AM on June 6, 2023
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posted by MisantropicPainforest at 4:41 PM on June 5, 2023