Don't forget to meet some old friends tonight.
September 24, 2002 5:31 AM   Subscribe

Don't forget to meet some old friends tonight. Warning the official link is a spoiler, so you've been warned.
posted by Beholder (52 comments total)
Oh My God!!!! A special performance by the Goo Goo Dolls!
posted by Blake at 5:34 AM on September 24, 2002

I'm probably kidding myself, but I'm hoping to avoid plot leaks this season. Of course in this information age, avoiding spoilers is almost an impossibility.
posted by Beholder at 5:46 AM on September 24, 2002

You think vampires are scarey? Wait'll the regular crowd rolls in and sees a Buffy link.
posted by RavinDave at 5:53 AM on September 24, 2002

I agree. While I'm a big Buffy fan (I don't read/write fanfic or scour the net for Gellar jpegs, but it is my favorite show), I'm pretty sure this post is going to be deleted. What discussion could it lead to?

"Buffy is so cool!"

"Get a life, fanboy!"

Is that what Metafilter is for?
posted by UnReality at 5:57 AM on September 24, 2002

For all your Buffy and associated Joss Whedon needs, see Whedonesque. You can even choose to view the site in no-spoiler mode.
posted by kittyloop at 6:03 AM on September 24, 2002

god, you guys are pre-emptively metatalking yourselves. take it to the right part of the neighborhood if you're going to keep this up.
posted by patricking at 6:10 AM on September 24, 2002

i like Buffy.

also, please remember that the soundtrack to the episode "Once More, With Feeling" is available today.
posted by tolkhan at 6:36 AM on September 24, 2002

Hey! They got the mustard out!
posted by ericableu at 7:06 AM on September 24, 2002

Hmmm. I thought "Friends" comes on Thursday nights.
posted by ColdChef at 7:12 AM on September 24, 2002

Thanks for the link, but how is it a spoiler?
posted by kate_fairfax at 7:39 AM on September 24, 2002

And don't forget to Get Your War On. [It's a new one!]

Or Save Karyn [She's only got $3400 to go!]

and so on...
posted by i_cola at 7:58 AM on September 24, 2002

I'm still ticked off that Buffy once again got snubbed by The Emmys. The series is much better than its name insinuates. People see the title and judge the book by its cover. Buffy the Vampire Slayer is witty, daring, groundbreaking, passionately directed, and features deceptively multi-layered writing. Most critics take Buffy on its surface but there's a strong undercurrent in the plot arcs from episode/episode to season/season.

For example at the end of season five, if one only saw the scene where Giles kills Ben, they'd fail to see the significance of that act. That Giles knew Buffy would never kill Ben, nor would ever authorize it. Only Giles had the balls to do it and the forethought required to insure Glory's permanent death via Ben's death. It was a culmination of five years of characterizatioin for Giles, involving everything from the death of Ms. Calendar to his rediscovery of his own purpose in the two seasons previously. This isn't just fluff we're talking about. Buffy the series is fluff with substance. Like a twinkie that's actually good for you.

All that being said, yes I'm sure this thread will get deleted soon as the powers that be get wind of it. For some reason we can't seem to talk about the actual merit of certain things in MeFi.
posted by ZachsMind at 8:07 AM on September 24, 2002

CC: I thought Evanizer...

[you know the rest]
posted by i_cola at 8:16 AM on September 24, 2002

ZachsMind, while I agree this thread probably will (and probably should) be deleted, you still could have prefaced your comments with a spoiler warning. Not everyone has seen the earlier seasons.

Although I also agree that it was a powerful moment.
posted by UnReality at 8:16 AM on September 24, 2002

i_cola: Grrrrrr.
posted by ColdChef at 8:34 AM on September 24, 2002

UGH! You got some nerve insisting on spoiler warnings for something that happened two years ago. By the way, Rosebud was Kane's sled. *smirk*
posted by ZachsMind at 8:35 AM on September 24, 2002

"He's been dead the whole time!"
posted by ColdChef at 8:40 AM on September 24, 2002

The show is airing in repeats on FX and is slowly being released on DVD. Some people may just be discovering the show this way. They deserve to have the story spoiled because they came to the party late?
posted by UnReality at 8:42 AM on September 24, 2002 by that logic, they should start this season completely lost? I really don't get that one. Besides, how many people do you think there are in this thread that *don't* watch Buffy but are going to suddenly start right now?
posted by me3dia at 8:49 AM on September 24, 2002

I hear that this season, Buffy learns that a race of super-vampires, cloned from Hitler, are responsible for the I/P conflict. And she has pancakes.
posted by mkultra at 8:59 AM on September 24, 2002

By the way, UnReality, Sam and Diane broke up.
posted by LittleMissCranky at 8:59 AM on September 24, 2002

me3dia: are going to suddenly start right now?

sheepishly puts away DVDs

Er.. not me. No. Not at all. I have no interest in seeing this, which is why I bought the DVDs, and am saving this season on TiVo so when I get caught up (with the help of friends with the season 3-5 tapes) I can get right into the swing of things....

But, thanks for spoiling season five for me. Just don't tell me that Buffy gets killed during this show -- I've enough trouble keeping up with what I've seen....
posted by dwivian at 9:06 AM on September 24, 2002

Oh, and Moby Dick survived Ahab.

Well written and performed tales cannot be "spoiled" by knowing the ending. I tire of spoilery arguments. I know how Star Wars ends, yet never tire of watching it. I knew Blair Witch Project was a 'trick' before I saw it the first time but enjoyed it anyway. In the film JFK everyone knew that the outcome is there is no real outcome, yet the film itself was in my opinion compelling and thought provoking anyway. In every Ian Fleming inspired James Bond film, we KNOW James Bond is going to survive. It's now whether or not he survives but HOW he does so which we find fascinating.

One can watch the Glory storyline of season five knowing Buffy survives, KNOWING that she sacrifices herself and yet returns in season six, and that would not inadvertently affect one iota one's appreciation of the tale told.

It's not the destination, dammit. It's the journey.
posted by ZachsMind at 9:07 AM on September 24, 2002

The show is airing in repeats on FX and is slowly being released on DVD. Some people may just be discovering the show this way. They deserve to have the story spoiled because they came to the party late?

spoiler rules only apply to forums that are dedicated to the show you don't want spoiled. that being said...

wheeee, buffy's back...! looking fwd to watching spike freak out this season :-D annual buffy party at my house tonight, bring your own blood.
posted by t r a c y at 9:16 AM on September 24, 2002

"Yeah, well sometimes I like to crumble up the Weetabix in the blood. Gives it a little texture. "

don't hurt me. I had to do it.
posted by ebarker at 9:19 AM on September 24, 2002

Well there was this thread last May, with over 60 replies, and it didn't get deleted, so I think my post is safe.
posted by Beholder at 9:19 AM on September 24, 2002

Last May? Oh, so your saying this has already been posted... DUPLICATE POST!!!!

Just Joshing.. I love Buffy (get it.. Josh-ing....woohoo I kill myself!!)

Tolkhan: Thanks for the info on the "Once more with feeling" CD, that's great news. I just wonder how it will compare to the CD that I and probably hundreds of Gnutella equipped Bufffy fans created for themselves days after the episode first aired.

On a related note: After placing my CD order on Amazon they recommended I also get "Music for Elevators" by Anthony Stewart Head. Who knew?! I loved his rendition of The Who's "Behind Blue Eyes" a few seasons ago.
posted by dirtylittlemonkey at 9:28 AM on September 24, 2002

HAHA, did you know the TV Sitcom Emril won a Emmy?

Thou i would rather watch that drivel then Friends.

must see TV my ass...

Anyway the Original Buffy "Kristy Swanson" is going to be in the Buff in the November 2002 Playboy.

God Bless America! Then save me from your followers...
posted by Dreamghost at 9:37 AM on September 24, 2002

i wonder if the official CD will have the special musical "grrrr, argh" at the end...? the cd i burned the next day does, and it's my fave part.

on preview - zach's right - i usually read each script before buffy airs (a few sites post the scripts, which are taken from the satellite dump of the show, which happens sometimes weeks in advance of network airing) and it takes nothing away from my anticipation or enjoyment of the show.
posted by t r a c y at 9:45 AM on September 24, 2002

dirtylittlemonkey, Don't you mean Joss-ing?
posted by rlb141 at 9:57 AM on September 24, 2002

Well written and performed tales cannot be "spoiled" by knowing the ending.

For most movies that's true, but knowing the twist if there is one (like "Sixth Sense") decreases their entertainment value.
posted by jaden at 10:08 AM on September 24, 2002

jaden: mentioned Sixth Sense

After I hit the post button, Sixth Sense did come to mind, but I saw it the first time in the theater w/o knowing the outcome, and then the second time I knew the outcome and enjoyed the film from a completely different point of view. Having known the first time wouldn't have made the film any less enjoyable.

Crying Game also comes to mind, but most of the time if a film or book requires the end not being spoiled for the film to be worth watching, in my opinion it's just not a good film. Sixth Sense has SO much more going for it than a twist ending. Crying Game really didn't.

ASH's "Music for Elevators" is amazing! It is an aquired taste, and one should probably try a couple mp3s of it before investing, just to see if it's what you want. ASH's voice is amazing, but his Partner In Crime, George Sarah's choice of music style is a bit retro disco with a melted Daliesque kinda quality.

It's not for everybody, but I've enjoyed it immensely, and of course originally I made a CD of the mp3s, just like with the Once More With Feeling mp3s. Then I bought the thing. The quality is just better. My mp3s from online sources are 128 and although one can't really hear much of a difference usually between mp3 & actual CD, there's a very subtle difference when I hear music in the car.

Today during lunch I'll go get a copy of OMWF. Then what I'll probably do tonight is go home, strip all the tracks to the highest quality wave or mp3 on my home pooter, and make a CD where I take my fave tracks from both CDs and put them on one homemade CD for my 12 CD changer in my car. I have to consolidate so I can squeeze as much music into my car as I can.

I hope someday ASH does an album with orchestral arrangement, featuring everything from this Rocky Horror repertoire to standards that make Mandy Patinkin salivate, but for now I have to be satiated with this bubblegum. It's good bubblegum don't get me wrong, but ASH could do so much more. Someday I'd also like to hear a version of ASH's One Night In Bangkok that's not a poor quality mp3 of somebody in a club venue holding a tape recorder in the crowd.

posted by ZachsMind at 10:16 AM on September 24, 2002

Geez, I'm not saying you should have written your comments in code or anything. Or that every minor story development deserves a spoiler warning. Just that a brief warning, for those who are interested but not yet caught up, would have been nice. Something simple along the lines of, "Hey, if you haven't seen season five and don't want to know what happens at the end, you probably don't want to read what's below."

It's true, movies like "The Sixth Sense" can be enjoyed more than once, even after you've seen the ending revealed. But does that mean it's all right to tell everyone who hasn't seen them and wants to that, "oh by the way, in the end, it turns out that..."? You cite "The Blair Witch Project" and say that you knew it was a trick but enjoyed it anyway. Do you mean that you knew that it wasn't a real documentary, or that you knew how it ended? I knew the film wasn't "real" when I went into it, too, but I can't imagine enjoying it as much as I did if the ending had been revealed to me before I entered the theater. Does that mean it doesn't have much to offer besides a surprise ending and it's okay to have it revealed?

Some of us don't read scripts beforehand. Some of us like to be surprised. Thus, spoiler warnings. A simple courtesy, really.
posted by UnReality at 10:44 AM on September 24, 2002

ZachsMind: Well written and performed tales cannot be "spoiled" by knowing the ending.

This is true. A good story keeps the same tension on later readings or viewings that it had on the first.

However, a good story can be spoiled--or at least, one's first experience of it can be--by knowing just a few out-of-place details of the ending. Rather than being able to take in the story as a whole, you keep anticipating the parts you've already heard about. The proportions of the thing come out all wrong. At least, that's what happens to me.

Which is not to say it's your responsibility to protect me from all the Bad Scary Knowledge Of How Things End, of course--if I really want to avoid spoilers for something that's been around for a while, I know to avoid discussions of it. I just think distress at spoilage is more justified than it might seem.

Also: the phrase "Like a twinkie that's actually good for you" makes me so, so happy.
posted by moss at 10:47 AM on September 24, 2002

Gah DANGIT! Sorry about the bold!
posted by ZachsMind at 10:48 AM on September 24, 2002

i_cola Crying Game fact: I used to work in the building where Dil (the singer) lived. [Hoxton Square in the East End of London - b4 the developers got to it]

Zach: Cheers for the bonus music review ;-)
posted by i_cola at 10:49 AM on September 24, 2002

But you still have to be careful not to spoil with your spoiler warnings. Years ago I remember CNN doing an intro on a story about cross-dressers and then right before they ran the story they said, "oh, and if you haven't seen The Crying Game yet don't watch this story..." "Well thaaaaank yoooou CNN..." says me who had been avoiding all hints of a spoiler regarding that movie for months (and, yeah, it wasn't all that great of a movie, but still...)
posted by Cyrano at 11:03 AM on September 24, 2002

(I was going to end that anecdote with some sort of a point but, well, it just didn't happen. "Spoiling if you don't want to be spoiled BAD!" I guess. Yeah. That'll work.)
posted by Cyrano at 11:08 AM on September 24, 2002

Some of us don't read scripts beforehand. Some of us like to be surprised. Thus, spoiler warnings. A simple courtesy, really.

nuh-uh. unless i'm at or some buffy blog or bb. those are the only places one should be expected to play by spoilage rules (and i play by them ferociously in the right places, hell, i even put ascii art in my spoiler space so it won't be boring!). but you can't happen upon a general or other discussion ng/blog/board and expect that sort of "courtesy". think of how many people don't even have a clue what spoilage is... you can't expect the entire net to tip-toe around like that.

Cyrano - yah, the media can be really stupid about spoiling... for instance networks will play commercials for a show that's just about to air right after the commercial, which gives away several highlights/plot points. seems part of their job should be to prevent not produce spoilage.
posted by t r a c y at 11:20 AM on September 24, 2002

Regarding disclaimers: If I put a disclaimer before everything I said, I'd never get around to saying anything but disclaimers. Practically every paragraph out my fingertips offends SOMEONE. I've learned apathy.

Regarding Blair Witch, I saw it seven times in the theater. Knowing the outcome had nothing to do with my appreciation of the film.

Unreality: "But does that mean it's all right..." Maybe not on purpose but this is like my argument about dumbing down the 'Net to appease families. I tire of people trying to childproof the Internet. If you click on a message thread that mentions Buffy, you should expect people are gonna talk about Buffy. They're not gonna avoid talking about "The Zeppo" just cuz you haven't seen it yet. Especially if you're lurking in the thread, they don't know you haven't seen every episode. It's increasingly patently absurd to require people preface everything they say on the off chance someone out there is not on the same wavelength. NO ONE's on the same wavelength. It's why we discuss things. If everyone were on the same wavelength and knew the same stuff about everything, dialogues would be a heckuva lot more boring.

"Some of us like to be surprised." Okay. So. Don't read a Net thread that talks about the thing you haven't seen everything of yet. Why place the burden on those who have already seen it, if it matters to you and not them?

OF course none of this has anything to do with Buffy so we've drifted off topic once again and I or one await the arrival of our Deleting Overlords. *smirk*
posted by ZachsMind at 11:32 AM on September 24, 2002

dirtylittlemonkey: I just wonder how it will compare to the CD that I and probably hundreds of Gnutella equipped Bufffy fans created for themselves.

the official CD has some extras. though i have the CD i made the night after the episode aired, and i have a second that a friend made for me (some songs on one are slightly different than on the other), i will be buying this one too. just because.

on the spoiler issue: the FPP says the official link is a spoiler. why would anyone who was behind on episodes then enter a thread talking about Buffy and expect to see something they didn't know? different people are at different places in their Buffy viewage. isn't the UK on season 5 or something? some people may have only begun watching last season and not seen the previous 5. the only way to prevent a someone somewhere from being spoiled is to preface every single comment about Buffy with a SPOILER!!! tag, which then becomes so everpresent that it immediately becomes unneccesary because everyone can then assume that if it's Buffy talk, it's gonna reveal information about something that has already happened.
posted by tolkhan at 11:48 AM on September 24, 2002

or, what Zach says
posted by tolkhan at 11:49 AM on September 24, 2002

I couldn't care less about Buffy, but I have a word or two to say about spoilers.

Yes, a great film is still a great film if you know the ending. However, there are two different experiences: the Citizen Kane you saw when you didn't know what Rosebud was and the Citizen Kane you saw the next time. And people should have a chance to see both those movies.

I look forward to seeing The Sixth Sense, Fight Club & The Usual Suspects again since knowing how they end--you're watching for different things. But that doesn't mean I would have appreciated never seeing them without that suspense.

On the other hand, I'm not going to read a MeFi thread about a movie I haven't seen. I don't even read reviews if it's a movie I want to see. I read a review of Insomnia (after seeing it) that gave something major away in it that I appreciated not knowing beforehand.
posted by witchstone at 1:09 PM on September 24, 2002

You spoiler crazy people make no sense to me. Before I buy a CD or a movie ticket or a videotape, I wanna know as much as I can about what I'm about to pluck down money on. If there's something that for some reason I don't want to know, then I won't go to those places. In my experience a show's never been 'spoiled' for me, because I don't actively go to places online or offline where I might get spoiled IF there's something I don't want spoiled, which is rare anyway. Cuz the whole concept is alien and silly.

Now. Another Music Review: The Once More With Feeling Soundtrack

On second thought I'm gonna leave the store bought Buffy CD the way it is. So far I find no flaws with the CD itself. I'll just have to take up two slots now in my CD Changer, one for Buffy and one for ASH. Gee, now what am I gonna take out?

I just bought the new CD and I was right in anticipating that the sound quality's much improved. Some of the sound effects (like the annoying Magic Box door bell at the end of Going Through The Motions or Buffy's footsteps at the end of Rest In Peace) are absent, which makes each of the tunes stand on their own better. When Anya started rocking out about bunnies in I Got A Theory, I almost blew out my speakers.

Very nice mix compared to the mp3s that were no doubt just dubbed off the TV. I mean I've enjoyed my mp3 CD for the past year, and it kept me from writing nasty letters to.. well.. someone.. about not having an actual CD to buy. However now that the real thing's there I'm happy to pay money for it. Although the liner notes are rather wasteful, silly, and appear to have been pasted together at the last minute with Elmer's glue.

So. Yet another example of mp3 files helping to sell CDs.
posted by ZachsMind at 1:25 PM on September 24, 2002

The illustration they used on the official CD cover art is terrible. Buffy looks more like her (...ancient history spoiler...) dead mom (.../ancient history spoiler...).
posted by RoseovSharon at 1:46 PM on September 24, 2002

So far the new episode is very cool. =)
posted by ZachsMind at 5:18 PM on September 24, 2002

Every major dead guy evil type since the beginning of the series is back?


wait. is this pathetic?
posted by ebarker at 6:10 PM on September 24, 2002


First episode is a bad omen. So the new season is the Scooby gang going back to high school in various jobs, so they can help out Dawn and her new pals every week. To me that's a step backward, not forward. I figured the writers would screw up Spike, which they did. It seems with every season, they remove a little more of what made that character interesting in the first place. Spike is mentally unstable, because he got his soul back. Wow, what a stretch.
posted by Beholder at 6:18 PM on September 24, 2002

i like the coming full circle concept for a series' final season and enjoyed the first ep quite a bit. i'm really looking fwd to seeing how it all plays out. then again, i don't get all anal about the plotlines of the shows i like and am fairly easy to please. ie: i don't get personally wrapped up in the characters, i realize they're not mine and just enjoy watching where TPTB decide to go with them. if a show becomes boring i just stop watching. sticking around to (for example) freak out about joss not doing what i think he should do, or blaming marti for ruining last season etc, etc. is beyond my understanding.

can you tell i was recently at an aintitcoolnews talkback...? fanboys are the scourge of the 'net. not to mention their parent's basements, heh.
posted by t r a c y at 8:02 PM on September 24, 2002

I think Joss' "Back to the beginning" approach is very astute. He went off on a wild tangent the last two years. An interesting journey, but somewhere along the way the writing staff lost sight of the inspiring idea: a little, helpless-looking girl alone in a cemetary fending off baddies. The perfect 'bait' for predators - bait that bites back.

With last night's season premiere they're going back to the roots of what made Buffy so interesting in the first place. Some may find that one step forward two steps back, but I personally think it's the best thing they could do. Personally I loved season six because it went so far off the formula as to become some of the most creative and offbeat television in recent memory, but it simultaneously lost its focus. Last night Whedon got back on track.

If this does turn out to be the last season, they will most certainly go out with a bang.
posted by ZachsMind at 9:12 AM on September 25, 2002

I really like the new principal.

So: is he going to turn evil, or die?
posted by moss at 1:58 PM on September 25, 2002

I think the new principal's gonna turn out to be completely normal. However, other extreme possibilities would include being a Knight of Byzantium in disguise, or somehow related to Kendra's Watcher, and is there as a favor to Giles.
posted by ZachsMind at 8:19 PM on October 5, 2002

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