September 27, 2002
8:11 AM Subscribe
First there was L. L. Cool J vs. Kool Moe Dee and the Bridge Wars. Then came Biggie and Tupac with the west coast, east coast rivalry. Now rap battles have transcended mediums, I give you Ludacris vs. Bill O'Reilly. Word.
"He was speaking hushed tones, telling her how much he enjoyed her body, using words that in polite conversation would have been vulgar, but in this context were extremely erotic. His hands firmly gripped her buttocks."
"Silence circled the room like a starving turkey buzzard."
Based on this eloquent passage, O'Reilly should lose every battle he ever enters.
posted by Fabulon7 at 8:21 AM on September 27, 2002
"Silence circled the room like a starving turkey buzzard."
Based on this eloquent passage, O'Reilly should lose every battle he ever enters.
posted by Fabulon7 at 8:21 AM on September 27, 2002
That was wack, yo.
When a guest on O'Reilly's show asked him if any hip-hop figure might make an acceptable Pepsi spokesperson, O'Reilly replied "Chubby Checker." Surprisingly enough, Chubby Checker is still alive and still performing regularly, but of course he's not a hip-hop figure by any stretch of the imagination, unless that imagination simplistically equates black skin with hip-hop. So what does O'Reilly's answer say? That he has either a deep ignorance or a deep contempt for the genre, or possibly both.
Heh.
posted by ColdChef at 8:26 AM on September 27, 2002
When a guest on O'Reilly's show asked him if any hip-hop figure might make an acceptable Pepsi spokesperson, O'Reilly replied "Chubby Checker." Surprisingly enough, Chubby Checker is still alive and still performing regularly, but of course he's not a hip-hop figure by any stretch of the imagination, unless that imagination simplistically equates black skin with hip-hop. So what does O'Reilly's answer say? That he has either a deep ignorance or a deep contempt for the genre, or possibly both.
Heh.
posted by ColdChef at 8:26 AM on September 27, 2002
I have absolutely no respect for a man who considers himself middle class but makes $4 million a year, or considers himself a journalist, but worked for Inside Edition. For some other reason I can't explain, I've never had an affinity with G. Beato (or Ludacris for that matter), so I couldn't really pass over this pretty obvious logical omission.
Beato quoting Ludacris: "Move bitch, get out the way/Get out the way bitch, get out the way/OH NO! The fight's out/I'ma 'bout to punch yo...lights out" [emph added]
"Indeed, O'Reilly repeatedly characterizes Ludacris as a decidely emphatic prosyletizer: "Take narcotics. Abuse people. Punch people. Hurt people." But I couldn't find any lyrics where he explicitly encourages people to do any of these things." [emph added]
So, O'Reilly says Ludacris sets an example by what he rhymes about, Beato is taking the words literally. We know full well the commentator is an extreme cynic knowing nothing in life but to milk controversy for profit. The rapper is milking a mythical ghetto esthetic for the same reasons.
"Real people" should ignore them both.
posted by raaka at 9:09 AM on September 27, 2002
Beato quoting Ludacris: "Move bitch, get out the way/Get out the way bitch, get out the way/OH NO! The fight's out/I'ma 'bout to punch yo...lights out" [emph added]
"Indeed, O'Reilly repeatedly characterizes Ludacris as a decidely emphatic prosyletizer: "Take narcotics. Abuse people. Punch people. Hurt people." But I couldn't find any lyrics where he explicitly encourages people to do any of these things." [emph added]
So, O'Reilly says Ludacris sets an example by what he rhymes about, Beato is taking the words literally. We know full well the commentator is an extreme cynic knowing nothing in life but to milk controversy for profit. The rapper is milking a mythical ghetto esthetic for the same reasons.
"Real people" should ignore them both.
posted by raaka at 9:09 AM on September 27, 2002
That is a fantastic piece, a little loose in spots, and could use more links to reference claims, but otherwise great.
posted by mathowie at 9:20 AM on September 27, 2002
posted by mathowie at 9:20 AM on September 27, 2002
Speaking about LL Cool J, I just read something that he just registred to vote for the first time in his life and he registered as a Republican. Hmm..
-Zupan
posted by ZupanGOD at 9:27 AM on September 27, 2002
-Zupan
posted by ZupanGOD at 9:27 AM on September 27, 2002
Surprisingly enough, Chubby Checker is still alive and still performing regularly....
Chubby Checker wants his more money and his more fame (as previously covered on MeFi).
posted by hyperizer at 9:42 AM on September 27, 2002
Chubby Checker wants his more money and his more fame (as previously covered on MeFi).
posted by hyperizer at 9:42 AM on September 27, 2002
unless that imagination simplistically equates black skin with hip-hop.
yeah, and I guess O'Reilly'll tell you -- just like those fun pizza guys in Do the right thing -- that his favorite musician is black (say, Gillespie) and his favorite athletes are black, and he has a lot of black friends
posted by matteo at 10:03 AM on September 27, 2002
yeah, and I guess O'Reilly'll tell you -- just like those fun pizza guys in Do the right thing -- that his favorite musician is black (say, Gillespie) and his favorite athletes are black, and he has a lot of black friends
posted by matteo at 10:03 AM on September 27, 2002
raaka, I believe his point in that passage was that Ludacris raps about doing these things himself. In that line, he talks about punching someone himself. He doesn't say "Go punch people" or whatever...
He talks about his own drug and alcohol use, his own violent exploits, and his own misogynistic treatment of women, yes, but such blustery boasting isn't the same thing as insisting to others that they should do the same.
Not that I'm saying Ludacris' lyrics are very nice either. But like you I can't believe Reilly can even consider himself middle (or lower) class.
posted by swank6 at 10:20 AM on September 27, 2002
He talks about his own drug and alcohol use, his own violent exploits, and his own misogynistic treatment of women, yes, but such blustery boasting isn't the same thing as insisting to others that they should do the same.
Not that I'm saying Ludacris' lyrics are very nice either. But like you I can't believe Reilly can even consider himself middle (or lower) class.
posted by swank6 at 10:20 AM on September 27, 2002
What was O'Reilley setting out to do? Did he say anything about the way Ludacris has become successful? Did he say anything about Ludacris other than "a man who is demeaning just about everybody, and is peddling antisocial behavior," which he backs up with examples of lyrics. In his interview he wanted pepsi to admit that the messages Ludacris sends out in his song do not matter to them because it sells. They would not admit that.
BART CASABONA, PEPSI SPOKESMAN: Ludacris is one of today's most popular performers, and he's broadly appealing among teens of all ethnicities.
O'REILLY: Yes?
CASABONA: And that's really what we target with these, you know, advertisements.
O'REILLY: So you don't really care about his morals or the message that he puts out?
CASABONA: Well, for us, it's really about how he's portrayed in our advertising. As you see in a -- our commercials, if you had a chance to view them, we capitalize on his ability to connect with our target audience in a relevant manner.
O'REILLY: Say you had a guy who was connecting with young people and he was anti-Semitic. Would you use him?
CASABONA: Well, you know, I really can't play in the what-if scenarios...
The Pepsi commercials are not demeaning and promote positive messages, is Pepsi's arguemnt. That does not answer the question. Pepsi can use anyone to promote positive messages in regard to selling thier product but instead they have chosen someone who says stuff like:
Here I come, there I go
UH OH! Don't jump bitch, move
You see them headlights? You hear that fuckin' crowd?
Start that goddamn show, I'm comin' through
Hit the stage and knock the girlies down
I fuck the crowd up - that's what I do
Young and successful - a sex symbol
The bitches want me to fuck - true true
Hold up wait up, shorty
"Oh wazzzupp, get my dick sucked, what are yoouu doin'?"
And while O'Reilly argued that Pepsi was "rewarding" Ludacris for rapping about "anti-social behavior," the truth is that it was rewarding him for being popular with the demographic it wants to reach. So the music he makes and sells has nothing to do with his popularity?
Then the Writer compares these incidents:
Or how about Tonya Harding? After she approved of her boyfriend's plan to cripple Nancy Kerrigan, O'Reilly's then-employer Inside Edition reportedly paid her $375,000 to appear on O'Reilly's show.
When Tanya harding appeared was she glorified? Did she go on the show and do the things she was infamous for? Not the same thing.
And then of course there's Britney Spears, But even though Spears has helped introduce the Vivid Girl aesthetic to her millions of prepubescent fans, O'Reilly thinks her call-girl-next-door persona is just "immature and silly." What does this really imply, the author admits that a commercial star can affect its demographic audience negatively. Who is the real Hypocrite?
Similarly, when Bill O'Reilly writes a novel that includes plenty of sex and violence, it's harmless entertainment.
Was this novel market towards the same demographic as the Ludacris music or commercials? Was this book meant for children and teens to read?
All that article did was change the subject on the basis of let's discredit O'Rielly instead of prove him wrong.
posted by Recockulous at 10:30 AM on September 27, 2002
BART CASABONA, PEPSI SPOKESMAN: Ludacris is one of today's most popular performers, and he's broadly appealing among teens of all ethnicities.
O'REILLY: Yes?
CASABONA: And that's really what we target with these, you know, advertisements.
O'REILLY: So you don't really care about his morals or the message that he puts out?
CASABONA: Well, for us, it's really about how he's portrayed in our advertising. As you see in a -- our commercials, if you had a chance to view them, we capitalize on his ability to connect with our target audience in a relevant manner.
O'REILLY: Say you had a guy who was connecting with young people and he was anti-Semitic. Would you use him?
CASABONA: Well, you know, I really can't play in the what-if scenarios...
The Pepsi commercials are not demeaning and promote positive messages, is Pepsi's arguemnt. That does not answer the question. Pepsi can use anyone to promote positive messages in regard to selling thier product but instead they have chosen someone who says stuff like:
Here I come, there I go
UH OH! Don't jump bitch, move
You see them headlights? You hear that fuckin' crowd?
Start that goddamn show, I'm comin' through
Hit the stage and knock the girlies down
I fuck the crowd up - that's what I do
Young and successful - a sex symbol
The bitches want me to fuck - true true
Hold up wait up, shorty
"Oh wazzzupp, get my dick sucked, what are yoouu doin'?"
And while O'Reilly argued that Pepsi was "rewarding" Ludacris for rapping about "anti-social behavior," the truth is that it was rewarding him for being popular with the demographic it wants to reach. So the music he makes and sells has nothing to do with his popularity?
Then the Writer compares these incidents:
Or how about Tonya Harding? After she approved of her boyfriend's plan to cripple Nancy Kerrigan, O'Reilly's then-employer Inside Edition reportedly paid her $375,000 to appear on O'Reilly's show.
When Tanya harding appeared was she glorified? Did she go on the show and do the things she was infamous for? Not the same thing.
And then of course there's Britney Spears, But even though Spears has helped introduce the Vivid Girl aesthetic to her millions of prepubescent fans, O'Reilly thinks her call-girl-next-door persona is just "immature and silly." What does this really imply, the author admits that a commercial star can affect its demographic audience negatively. Who is the real Hypocrite?
Similarly, when Bill O'Reilly writes a novel that includes plenty of sex and violence, it's harmless entertainment.
Was this novel market towards the same demographic as the Ludacris music or commercials? Was this book meant for children and teens to read?
All that article did was change the subject on the basis of let's discredit O'Rielly instead of prove him wrong.
posted by Recockulous at 10:30 AM on September 27, 2002
Once again, I couldn't disagree with all of you any more.
This article compares a guy who seemingly started out with a single-parent income of $35k a year, who WENT TO SCHOOL, who worked hard rising up the totem pole in one of the hardest professions to become successful, and finally made a name for himself to someone who did just get lucky by making some money off of calling women bitches and 'hos.
Although I hardly ever watch O'Reilly -- mostly because he has too many commercials and too little content -- I would at least listen to anything he had to say simply because he at least seems to respect women and fellow humans.
I staunchly refuse to listen to someone who makes money off of hating women, and I consider the trash he puts out as pure hate for women. If someone were to come off the street and call my mother a bitch-ass ho, you'd better believe I'd be unhappy as all hell if I saw him getting paid to push a product like Pepsi. Hell, while we are at it, let's hire Charles Manson to push Coke.
posted by mychai at 11:01 AM on September 27, 2002
This article compares a guy who seemingly started out with a single-parent income of $35k a year, who WENT TO SCHOOL, who worked hard rising up the totem pole in one of the hardest professions to become successful, and finally made a name for himself to someone who did just get lucky by making some money off of calling women bitches and 'hos.
Although I hardly ever watch O'Reilly -- mostly because he has too many commercials and too little content -- I would at least listen to anything he had to say simply because he at least seems to respect women and fellow humans.
I staunchly refuse to listen to someone who makes money off of hating women, and I consider the trash he puts out as pure hate for women. If someone were to come off the street and call my mother a bitch-ass ho, you'd better believe I'd be unhappy as all hell if I saw him getting paid to push a product like Pepsi. Hell, while we are at it, let's hire Charles Manson to push Coke.
posted by mychai at 11:01 AM on September 27, 2002
Oreilly is a dumb bastard. I hate him. Because he lies and acts righteous. The "No Spin Zone" is a slap in the face of every viewer telling him/her that they are stupid, dumb and they will take his word as the last word. The biggest sign of his lameness is how he resorts to wicked WHAT-IF scenarios to prove his point. Well, What If Someone WHOOPS His Lame A$$ :S The compulsory link.
posted by adnanbwp at 11:09 AM on September 27, 2002
posted by adnanbwp at 11:09 AM on September 27, 2002
Recockulous: I don't understand are you claiming that Ludacris is famous for anti-social behavior and not because he is a musician.
As a musician I fell that Ludacris (as well as many many rappers before him) has been negatively targeted as the person he portrays in his music. "The art of story telling" is how Slick Rick defined rap in the late nineties. It still surprises me that people lump rappers, coming from poor backgrounds, with the same criminals they grew up with and are subsequently trying to get away from. They are just using rap to tell their story and make a career out of it in the process.
This is where Bill O'Reilly is wrong about Ludicirs or rather Chris Bridges.
On preview
mychai: See above
posted by Dr_Octavius at 11:16 AM on September 27, 2002
As a musician I fell that Ludacris (as well as many many rappers before him) has been negatively targeted as the person he portrays in his music. "The art of story telling" is how Slick Rick defined rap in the late nineties. It still surprises me that people lump rappers, coming from poor backgrounds, with the same criminals they grew up with and are subsequently trying to get away from. They are just using rap to tell their story and make a career out of it in the process.
This is where Bill O'Reilly is wrong about Ludicirs or rather Chris Bridges.
On preview
mychai: See above
posted by Dr_Octavius at 11:16 AM on September 27, 2002
Recockulous: Are you sure that the snippet you're quoting is Ludacris? I think it's actually Mystikal.
posted by allaboutgeorge at 11:16 AM on September 27, 2002
posted by allaboutgeorge at 11:16 AM on September 27, 2002
Here I come, there I go
UH OH! Don't jump bitch, move
You see them headlights? You hear that fuckin' crowd?
Start that goddamn show, I'm comin' through
Hit the stage and knock the girlies down
I fuck the crowd up - that's what I do
Young and successful - a sex symbol
The bitches want me to fuck - true true
Hold up wait up, shorty
"Oh wazzzupp, get my dick sucked, what are yoouu doin'?"
Actually, that's Mystikal's verse.
This was a good article. Bill O'Reilly is full of it and himself. Ludacris writes raps about ghetto adventures. Believe it or not, the things he writes about do actually happen. He has an appeal to a certain audience. It may not be the mainstream audience but it's a big audience and he's making a lot of money doing what he's doing. Believe it or not, a lot of what Ludacris raps about is really happening out there in the streets every single day. I've witnessed a lot of it first hand.
Personally, I think Pepsi punked out by pulling the ads. Those are the kinds of commercials that get my attention. Then again, I love hip hop.
posted by monique at 11:20 AM on September 27, 2002
UH OH! Don't jump bitch, move
You see them headlights? You hear that fuckin' crowd?
Start that goddamn show, I'm comin' through
Hit the stage and knock the girlies down
I fuck the crowd up - that's what I do
Young and successful - a sex symbol
The bitches want me to fuck - true true
Hold up wait up, shorty
"Oh wazzzupp, get my dick sucked, what are yoouu doin'?"
Actually, that's Mystikal's verse.
This was a good article. Bill O'Reilly is full of it and himself. Ludacris writes raps about ghetto adventures. Believe it or not, the things he writes about do actually happen. He has an appeal to a certain audience. It may not be the mainstream audience but it's a big audience and he's making a lot of money doing what he's doing. Believe it or not, a lot of what Ludacris raps about is really happening out there in the streets every single day. I've witnessed a lot of it first hand.
Personally, I think Pepsi punked out by pulling the ads. Those are the kinds of commercials that get my attention. Then again, I love hip hop.
posted by monique at 11:20 AM on September 27, 2002
dang, i was typing the second half on preview and accidentally hit post instead of preview again.
what george said.
posted by monique at 11:21 AM on September 27, 2002
what george said.
posted by monique at 11:21 AM on September 27, 2002
mychai- I disagree with you on so many levels but I will just respond to one thing. Charles Manson killed people. Ludacris tells a story about sex and murder on tape. Your comparison is phony and the standard lazy "Hitler/Nazi" trick.
posted by McBain at 11:24 AM on September 27, 2002
posted by McBain at 11:24 AM on September 27, 2002
I staunchly refuse to listen to someone who makes money off of hating women, and I consider the trash he puts out as pure hate for women. If someone were to come off the street and call my mother a bitch-ass ho, you'd better believe I'd be unhappy as all hell if I saw him getting paid to push a product like Pepsi. Hell, while we are at it, let's hire Charles Manson to push Coke.
Have you (or anyone else for that matter) actually listened to a Ludacris cd or are you basing your statements on assumption just because he has half naked women in his videos? Most of his songs are about partying and sex. While there are lyrics that could be taken as derogatory towards women, his biggest group of fans are young women. Go figure.
posted by monique at 11:33 AM on September 27, 2002
Have you (or anyone else for that matter) actually listened to a Ludacris cd or are you basing your statements on assumption just because he has half naked women in his videos? Most of his songs are about partying and sex. While there are lyrics that could be taken as derogatory towards women, his biggest group of fans are young women. Go figure.
posted by monique at 11:33 AM on September 27, 2002
O'Reilly doesn't exactly claim to be middle-class as of now. He merely states that he wasn't part of the wealthiest family in the neighborhood. Regardless of how much truth is in that statement, he doesn't claim to be middle-class now. He does, however, claim to care about middle-class issues and generally sides with anything conservative.
On a related note, I like Ludacris.
posted by wklang at 11:58 AM on September 27, 2002
On a related note, I like Ludacris.
posted by wklang at 11:58 AM on September 27, 2002
let's hire Charles Manson to push Coke
he already pushed a Beatles song, man
posted by matteo at 12:02 PM on September 27, 2002
he already pushed a Beatles song, man
posted by matteo at 12:02 PM on September 27, 2002
Sorry about the Mystical mistake. I copied it from one of his songs off of the link posted. It is a verse done by Mystical in a song he also sings, again sorry. I am not going to be petty and find other songs where he calls women hoes or bitches.
Recockulous: I don't understand are you claiming that Ludacris is famous for anti-social behavior and not because he is a musician.
I am not claiming that. The writer's arguement is that O'Reilly is wrong for saying Ludacris is rewarded for rapping about anit-social behavior, the truth being he is rewarded for being poplular with his demographic. My point is that he is popular with his demogrphic for his music, which O'Rielly claims is anti-social. He has to be popular from his music before he is rewarded for his popularity. I am not putting in my own opinion of Ludacris's music. The writer was not pointing out how Ludacris music is not anti-social.
My problem is not with Ludacris it is with the way the arguement of the piece was structured.
Have you (or anyone else for that matter) actually listened to a Ludacris cd or are you basing your statements on assumption just because he has half naked women in his videos? Most of his songs are about partying and sex. While there are lyrics that could be taken as derogatory towards women, his biggest group of fans are young women. Go figure.
Now I might put in my 2 cents in on Ludacris and the commercial. Yes, I have listend to several of his songs. I am a young female and they are not offensive to me. I even like some of them, in particular the Rosa Parks song. In my high school at dances DJs always played the Ludacris song "What's your fantasy"
Ludacris]
I wanna get in the Georgia dome on the fifty yard line
when the dirty birds kick the tree
and if you like in the club we can do it
in the DJ booth or in the back of the VIP
whip cream with cherries, strawberries on top
lick it don't stop
Without every buying this CD or being a fan I know most of this song off by heart just by hearing it so many times around me.
This song of course has very heavy sexual under tones. If any of you that have 15, 16, 17 or 18 year old daughters you would probably be mortified if you saw some of the danceing that was going on in a high school gym durring this song. I know first hand that Ludacris affects teenagers. Is it ok to glorify him for his sexuality and vulgar language? Pepsi says yes when they want him as a sponsor.
I dont know. I am young and impressionable and still havent made up my mind yet.
posted by Recockulous at 12:07 PM on September 27, 2002
Recockulous: I don't understand are you claiming that Ludacris is famous for anti-social behavior and not because he is a musician.
I am not claiming that. The writer's arguement is that O'Reilly is wrong for saying Ludacris is rewarded for rapping about anit-social behavior, the truth being he is rewarded for being poplular with his demographic. My point is that he is popular with his demogrphic for his music, which O'Rielly claims is anti-social. He has to be popular from his music before he is rewarded for his popularity. I am not putting in my own opinion of Ludacris's music. The writer was not pointing out how Ludacris music is not anti-social.
My problem is not with Ludacris it is with the way the arguement of the piece was structured.
Have you (or anyone else for that matter) actually listened to a Ludacris cd or are you basing your statements on assumption just because he has half naked women in his videos? Most of his songs are about partying and sex. While there are lyrics that could be taken as derogatory towards women, his biggest group of fans are young women. Go figure.
Now I might put in my 2 cents in on Ludacris and the commercial. Yes, I have listend to several of his songs. I am a young female and they are not offensive to me. I even like some of them, in particular the Rosa Parks song. In my high school at dances DJs always played the Ludacris song "What's your fantasy"
Ludacris]
I wanna get in the Georgia dome on the fifty yard line
when the dirty birds kick the tree
and if you like in the club we can do it
in the DJ booth or in the back of the VIP
whip cream with cherries, strawberries on top
lick it don't stop
Without every buying this CD or being a fan I know most of this song off by heart just by hearing it so many times around me.
This song of course has very heavy sexual under tones. If any of you that have 15, 16, 17 or 18 year old daughters you would probably be mortified if you saw some of the danceing that was going on in a high school gym durring this song. I know first hand that Ludacris affects teenagers. Is it ok to glorify him for his sexuality and vulgar language? Pepsi says yes when they want him as a sponsor.
I dont know. I am young and impressionable and still havent made up my mind yet.
posted by Recockulous at 12:07 PM on September 27, 2002
Then maybe your parents (you generally, not you specifically) should be guiding you and not allowing you to make your own uneducated interpretations based on what you are seeing and hearing in the media.
When I was 15,16, and 17 years old it was NWA and the 2 Live Crew that had the nasty lyrics (I just dated myself, didn't I?). My mother took away my tapes, but she knew she couldn't prevent me from hearing it outside of the house. She made sure that I understood that the things that were being "glorified" on those tapes were not to be taken lightly.
posted by monique at 12:13 PM on September 27, 2002
When I was 15,16, and 17 years old it was NWA and the 2 Live Crew that had the nasty lyrics (I just dated myself, didn't I?). My mother took away my tapes, but she knew she couldn't prevent me from hearing it outside of the house. She made sure that I understood that the things that were being "glorified" on those tapes were not to be taken lightly.
posted by monique at 12:13 PM on September 27, 2002
Bill O'Reilly is ludicrous.
posted by BarneyFifesBullet at 12:23 PM on September 27, 2002
posted by BarneyFifesBullet at 12:23 PM on September 27, 2002
This has nothing to do with Ludicris being a hip hop singer, it had everything to do with the content of his songs. Oreilly called Pepsi on it and they would not endorse him. Pepsi got alot of negative feedback from the viewers and canned him.
you can love or hate Oreilly, but his viewers are the ones that complained, and Pepsi listened to them. I'm glad too.
posted by WLW at 12:36 PM on September 27, 2002
you can love or hate Oreilly, but his viewers are the ones that complained, and Pepsi listened to them. I'm glad too.
posted by WLW at 12:36 PM on September 27, 2002
When I was 15,16, and 17 years old it was NWA and the 2 Live Crew that had the nasty lyrics (I just dated myself, didn't I?). My mother took away my tapes, but she knew she couldn't prevent me from hearing it outside of the house. She made sure that I understood that the things that were being "glorified" on those tapes were not to be taken lightly.
O'Reilly wouldn't be popular if he looked into the camera and confronted parents for allowing Ludacris to become a bigger influence in their children's lives than they are. I remember being in junior high, having to hide my "Straight Outta Compton" tape. But fortunately for me, my parents spent enough time with me that I grew up to understand the implications of sex and violence. I still enjoy Eminem and Jay-Z immensely, but I put them in thier place as silly entertainment. If you don't like the way your kid acts because they listen to Ludacris, why aren't you doing something about THEM. Some of us can enjoy gangsta rap and still manage to pay their bills, go to work, respect their wives, and stay off drugs.
posted by McBain at 12:59 PM on September 27, 2002
O'Reilly wouldn't be popular if he looked into the camera and confronted parents for allowing Ludacris to become a bigger influence in their children's lives than they are. I remember being in junior high, having to hide my "Straight Outta Compton" tape. But fortunately for me, my parents spent enough time with me that I grew up to understand the implications of sex and violence. I still enjoy Eminem and Jay-Z immensely, but I put them in thier place as silly entertainment. If you don't like the way your kid acts because they listen to Ludacris, why aren't you doing something about THEM. Some of us can enjoy gangsta rap and still manage to pay their bills, go to work, respect their wives, and stay off drugs.
posted by McBain at 12:59 PM on September 27, 2002
I made another mistake as far as songs. I am surprised is hasnt been called out already.
posted by Recockulous at 1:12 PM on September 27, 2002
posted by Recockulous at 1:12 PM on September 27, 2002
This song of course has very heavy sexual under tones. If any of you that have 15, 16, 17 or 18 year old daughters you would probably be mortified if you saw some of the danceing that was going on in a high school gym durring this song....
Didn't people say this about "Tutti Frutti," "Great Balls of Fire," and other rock 'n' roll from the '50s and '60s?
posted by hyperizer at 1:45 PM on September 27, 2002
Didn't people say this about "Tutti Frutti," "Great Balls of Fire," and other rock 'n' roll from the '50s and '60s?
posted by hyperizer at 1:45 PM on September 27, 2002
Old white guy shocked by young black man. FOX news at 11.
posted by inpHilltr8r at 1:54 PM on September 27, 2002
posted by inpHilltr8r at 1:54 PM on September 27, 2002
Didn't people say this about "Tutti Frutti," "Great Balls of Fire," and other rock 'n' roll from the '50s and '60s?
Yes, and that is good point in what I was trying to say actually. Those songs influenced the dancing of the time. The songs of today infleunce my generation's dance style. Parents generally dont teach thier kids how to dance for a high school dance. They have to decide how to dance based on the music and thier peers.
I think parents would be surprised. That is diffrent from saying it is bad, wrong, the music is brainwashing these kids, thier parents havent taught them right from wrong. I never meant to imply any of that. I just wanted to stress that music does influence young people. It is subtle influences that might not even be realized, for good or for bad.
posted by Recockulous at 2:17 PM on September 27, 2002
Yes, and that is good point in what I was trying to say actually. Those songs influenced the dancing of the time. The songs of today infleunce my generation's dance style. Parents generally dont teach thier kids how to dance for a high school dance. They have to decide how to dance based on the music and thier peers.
I think parents would be surprised. That is diffrent from saying it is bad, wrong, the music is brainwashing these kids, thier parents havent taught them right from wrong. I never meant to imply any of that. I just wanted to stress that music does influence young people. It is subtle influences that might not even be realized, for good or for bad.
posted by Recockulous at 2:17 PM on September 27, 2002
This has nothing to do with Ludicris being a hip hop singer, it had everything to do with the content of his songs.
If you believe that then you missed the entire point of the article: that O'Reilly produces entertainment containing the same content, but warns people of the inappropriateness of the content produced by Pepsi's new spokesperson. On top of that, Riley is hypocritical in that Ludacris is an example of the traditional conservative american "pull yourself out of the ghetto by your boot straps" motto by building his own business through hard work and then giving something back to the community.
So I guess tell that bum on the street, "Get a job!... as long as you don't get one making hip hop music... maybe like being a writer..."
posted by McBain at 2:41 PM on September 27, 2002
If you believe that then you missed the entire point of the article: that O'Reilly produces entertainment containing the same content, but warns people of the inappropriateness of the content produced by Pepsi's new spokesperson. On top of that, Riley is hypocritical in that Ludacris is an example of the traditional conservative american "pull yourself out of the ghetto by your boot straps" motto by building his own business through hard work and then giving something back to the community.
So I guess tell that bum on the street, "Get a job!... as long as you don't get one making hip hop music... maybe like being a writer..."
posted by McBain at 2:41 PM on September 27, 2002
I made another mistake as far as songs. I am surprised is hasnt been called out already. - Recockulous
Yeah. That Rosa Parks song is by Outkast. I meant to say that. :)
posted by monique at 2:52 PM on September 27, 2002
Yeah. That Rosa Parks song is by Outkast. I meant to say that. :)
posted by monique at 2:52 PM on September 27, 2002
having to hide my "Straight Outta Compton" tape
but I put them in their place as silly entertainment.
Not pointing at you, McBain ;)
Thanks for the reference as these songs on S O C were true tales that I witnessed in everyday life in North Long Beach and Compton. How do you think Easy-E died, by the streets he wrote about. Unfortunately the catch phrases were misinterpreted from what actually is truth that was witnessed by the authors. They were telling the news in their hood, just in a different form of medium. Not just a bunch of sayings that rhymed. When this music went mainstream and distorted kids trying to emulate the lyrics in neighborhoods that had no idea to what it really meant, then its value for me was lost. But it will always be hard to my heart and having my back. Yes, a lot of these artist have been in the news just for what they sung about which shows the truth in their words. Has O' Reilly lived what he talks about? Bill O'Reilly is Ludacris. LBcapitalC
PS, In LA most news is filtered to the truth of the streets as it's bad for tourism. I have never seen main stream media discuss this but only to go along with it. I have seen things that would be front page news anywhere else in the U.S. and the World.
posted by thomcatspike at 3:01 PM on September 27, 2002
but I put them in their place as silly entertainment.
Not pointing at you, McBain ;)
Thanks for the reference as these songs on S O C were true tales that I witnessed in everyday life in North Long Beach and Compton. How do you think Easy-E died, by the streets he wrote about. Unfortunately the catch phrases were misinterpreted from what actually is truth that was witnessed by the authors. They were telling the news in their hood, just in a different form of medium. Not just a bunch of sayings that rhymed. When this music went mainstream and distorted kids trying to emulate the lyrics in neighborhoods that had no idea to what it really meant, then its value for me was lost. But it will always be hard to my heart and having my back. Yes, a lot of these artist have been in the news just for what they sung about which shows the truth in their words. Has O' Reilly lived what he talks about? Bill O'Reilly is Ludacris. LBcapitalC
PS, In LA most news is filtered to the truth of the streets as it's bad for tourism. I have never seen main stream media discuss this but only to go along with it. I have seen things that would be front page news anywhere else in the U.S. and the World.
posted by thomcatspike at 3:01 PM on September 27, 2002
It appears O'Reilly is taking aim at Snoop Dogg as well -- seems to fit the classic battle pattern of targeting someone more popular than yourself to try to elevate your position. But, if you don't win the crowds, you fade into obscurity. Does anybody remember Tim Dog?
posted by eddydamascene at 4:07 PM on September 27, 2002
posted by eddydamascene at 4:07 PM on September 27, 2002
shit that needz sayin
with the INS, this typa shit happens ev-er-y day.
posted by eddydamascene at 4:41 PM on September 27, 2002
with the INS, this typa shit happens ev-er-y day.
posted by eddydamascene at 4:41 PM on September 27, 2002
eddydamascene - I remember the F--- Compton song but not that perm song. Tim Dog was just jealous of the flavor the West Coast was starting to put out. Where is he now?
posted by monique at 4:53 PM on September 27, 2002
posted by monique at 4:53 PM on September 27, 2002
I'm sorry but I just saw the snoop report on the Oreilly factor, and there's absolutely no way you can say that oreilly isn't anti hip hop. Maybe you can argue that he isn't rascist, but it'd be pretty hard to convince me considering he totally ignored Papa Roach's Pepsi deal. (Their lyrics can be interpreted just as negatively as those of Ludacris.) I'm just surprised people support him since he's so blatantly rascist. I'd like to see Jesse Jackson back off Barbershop and take on OReilly.
posted by dogwalker at 5:28 PM on September 27, 2002
posted by dogwalker at 5:28 PM on September 27, 2002
What makes this whole thing so ironic is that Tim Dog and Kool Keith now live in LA... and they now do a lot of work with a west coast/ Bay Area producer named Kutmasta Kurt... [via davey d]
Monique, this is the closest I could get on an update, and this is back in 96 (I had totally forgotten about the UMC connection).
posted by eddydamascene at 5:29 PM on September 27, 2002
Monique, this is the closest I could get on an update, and this is back in 96 (I had totally forgotten about the UMC connection).
posted by eddydamascene at 5:29 PM on September 27, 2002
thomcatspike- I don't doubt that, and many of the really good rap that I love is quite powerful and dramatic. The early Ice-T, Public Enemy, NWA, and later the first (and only good) Biggie Smalls were all wonderful works of art. They contain amazing storytelling and satire. But ultimately for me they are a diversion as that is not my life, just like the most beautful painting, or tragic opera is really just a diversion. It doesn't make them less important.
posted by McBain at 8:20 PM on September 27, 2002
posted by McBain at 8:20 PM on September 27, 2002
Comming from a mixed background, I find it chilling people are willing to be so passive to this sort of anti-social behavior. It's hurting youth and directing them in the wrong direction to become successfull in our society. Is Bill the only person out there in the media who sees this? I know my cousins are not even allowed to listen to hiphop becuase how distructive it has been to the peers around them.
-Z
posted by ZupanGOD at 10:14 PM on September 27, 2002
-Z
posted by ZupanGOD at 10:14 PM on September 27, 2002
That is ridiculous, ZupanGOD. Since you brought it up, I too am from a mixed background. My father is black and my mother is white. I grew up in a mostly white suburb in Minnesota and Cambridge, Mass at various points in my life. My friends and I (white and black) all listened to gangsta rap. Mostly we thought it was funny, also we thought the stories of violence and hopelessness were sad. Never did any of us aspire to similar lifestyles except on the most superficial level. The kids we knew that DID get into trouble obviously had a multitude of other family problems to begin with. I had my big black father to kick my ass if I got out of line. Hip hop is a scapegoat. I am not saying it is a healthy or perfect genre, but that could be said about any number of forms of entertainment. No one needs to speak out against rap except to their OWN CHILDREN (it is adult entertainment after all). Besides, protecting children from exposure to sex and violence in the media is a made up necessity. It is so ingrained in our culture now, few people ever question why it is such a seeming tautology. A few people have questioned why we don't explain sexuality to our children even sooner. I am not saying they are right, but why is it taken for granted? My parents discussed the fact that they had had intercourse to produce me at a very early age, in a matter of fact, educational matter. They never acted embarrassed, never told lies ("like the stork"), and never made me feel like it wasn't something that was okay to talk about. They DID make it clear that it was something only for "grown-ups". Honestly, I am a better person for it.
posted by McBain at 10:43 PM on September 27, 2002
posted by McBain at 10:43 PM on September 27, 2002
I started drinking forty-ouncers of Olde English 800 malt liquor directly because of NWA. Plus, you could get absolutely shitfaced for less than two dollars. Absolutely shitfaced.
posted by elvissinatra at 10:01 AM on September 28, 2002
posted by elvissinatra at 10:01 AM on September 28, 2002
I find it chilling people are willing to be so passive to this sort of anti-social behavior.
Yeah, but what can you do, they have the money, and power, and... hang on a sec, who are we talking about here?
posted by inpHilltr8r at 12:56 PM on September 28, 2002
Yeah, but what can you do, they have the money, and power, and... hang on a sec, who are we talking about here?
posted by inpHilltr8r at 12:56 PM on September 28, 2002
adnanbwp - I TOTALLY AGREE WITH YOU!! You kept it simple and to the point. Eff Bill O'Reilly!
As for Ludacris, I don't feel that he's that socially destructive. And I know that "bitches and hos" aren't referring to all females. Ludacris may have some pretty hardcore lyrics, but his songs rock! Young people love him because he's a genius at what he does and his tracks are what make him so popular. I doubt very seriously that most of these chix who listen to them become mortified by the content. In my opinion, females can either respond one of two ways:
1. You listen for the music/track/hook, you don't find the lyrics offensive and KNOW HE'S NOT TALKING ABOUT ALL WOMEN. Simply ignore it and enjoy the music.
2. You listen to some of his lyrics and say to yourself, "Dayum, I am a trick assed ho. How did he know me so well? I hate Ludacris."
If a female responds like number 2, she was like that before Ludacris penned any of his lyrics. Trust me on that one.
posted by Aloe23 at 10:47 AM on September 30, 2002
As for Ludacris, I don't feel that he's that socially destructive. And I know that "bitches and hos" aren't referring to all females. Ludacris may have some pretty hardcore lyrics, but his songs rock! Young people love him because he's a genius at what he does and his tracks are what make him so popular. I doubt very seriously that most of these chix who listen to them become mortified by the content. In my opinion, females can either respond one of two ways:
1. You listen for the music/track/hook, you don't find the lyrics offensive and KNOW HE'S NOT TALKING ABOUT ALL WOMEN. Simply ignore it and enjoy the music.
2. You listen to some of his lyrics and say to yourself, "Dayum, I am a trick assed ho. How did he know me so well? I hate Ludacris."
If a female responds like number 2, she was like that before Ludacris penned any of his lyrics. Trust me on that one.
posted by Aloe23 at 10:47 AM on September 30, 2002
Hip-Hop being destructive and a bad influence on kids is BS.
Punk, Acid Rock, and Heavy Metal (especially in the 70-80s) promoted all types of violence, anti-women lyrics, sexual exploits etc. The big hair bands, radio dee jays and the like were saturated with the same type of so-called anti-social behavior. Howard Stern, Anna Nicole Smith (God help her), and the South Park writers (even though I love them) get away with murder everyday!!!! Some of the stunts they pull on TV are out of control. Did anybody's kid ever say that watching Howard Stern made them a masturbation addict? Or did anyone's son say that his mysogynistic behavior is a result of watching Howard Stern? That's a scapegoat and these parents need to stop blaming pop culture.
I think some folks tend to be more sensitive about Hip Hop because it's is lead by, written by, and produced by none other than the BLACK MAN. It's too much to swallow for some people who aren't used to them being that successful.
Then they flash the fruit of their success all over television and some folks can't stand to watch it. I love it!
Hell, I used to be a hip hop head 100% as a teen. I've since gotten into Disturbed, Godsmack, Staind, System of a Down, Korn, A Perfect Circle, and Rage.... Can anyone say their lyrics are any different? I think not.
It's all about what you like. To hell with these politically correct, news headline reading, boring assed idiots who think that HIP HOP IS BAYUD, MKAY. That's LUDACRIS.
posted by Aloe23 at 11:05 AM on September 30, 2002
Punk, Acid Rock, and Heavy Metal (especially in the 70-80s) promoted all types of violence, anti-women lyrics, sexual exploits etc. The big hair bands, radio dee jays and the like were saturated with the same type of so-called anti-social behavior. Howard Stern, Anna Nicole Smith (God help her), and the South Park writers (even though I love them) get away with murder everyday!!!! Some of the stunts they pull on TV are out of control. Did anybody's kid ever say that watching Howard Stern made them a masturbation addict? Or did anyone's son say that his mysogynistic behavior is a result of watching Howard Stern? That's a scapegoat and these parents need to stop blaming pop culture.
I think some folks tend to be more sensitive about Hip Hop because it's is lead by, written by, and produced by none other than the BLACK MAN. It's too much to swallow for some people who aren't used to them being that successful.
Then they flash the fruit of their success all over television and some folks can't stand to watch it. I love it!
Hell, I used to be a hip hop head 100% as a teen. I've since gotten into Disturbed, Godsmack, Staind, System of a Down, Korn, A Perfect Circle, and Rage.... Can anyone say their lyrics are any different? I think not.
It's all about what you like. To hell with these politically correct, news headline reading, boring assed idiots who think that HIP HOP IS BAYUD, MKAY. That's LUDACRIS.
posted by Aloe23 at 11:05 AM on September 30, 2002
Aloe23, the thing is that Disturbed, Godsmack, Staind, System of a Down, Korn, A Perfect Circle, and Rage aren't going to be Pepsi sponsors, either! People may think that "Ludacris writes raps about ghetto adventures. Believe it or not, the things he writes about do actually happen," (posted above) but that doesn't make him an acceptable Pepsi sponsor!
I'm glad they pulled him. I don't care if he talks about 'what is real," there's no need to glorify that crap. Period.
Just so you know, my mother in law is a Pepsi stockholder and former employee, and she wrote the company to complain about this, and the person who made the decision acually called and spoke with her about it. This was such a goat-screw for Pepsi that they are changing the way they choose spokespeople! It wasn't just OReilly that complained. A whole lot of people, myself included, don't like it that a pig like Ludacris, no matter how "real" he is, is a high-visability spokesperson. That elevates his tripe to even higher levels of importance and makes it even more important to kids.
posted by aacheson at 10:25 AM on October 7, 2002
I'm glad they pulled him. I don't care if he talks about 'what is real," there's no need to glorify that crap. Period.
Just so you know, my mother in law is a Pepsi stockholder and former employee, and she wrote the company to complain about this, and the person who made the decision acually called and spoke with her about it. This was such a goat-screw for Pepsi that they are changing the way they choose spokespeople! It wasn't just OReilly that complained. A whole lot of people, myself included, don't like it that a pig like Ludacris, no matter how "real" he is, is a high-visability spokesperson. That elevates his tripe to even higher levels of importance and makes it even more important to kids.
posted by aacheson at 10:25 AM on October 7, 2002
I know my cousins are not even allowed to listen to hiphop becuase how distructive it has been to the peers around them.
I know one's actions can be swayed or better word, tempted. Because I've seen it, in the numbing of one's brain from listening to the rhetoric of music lyrics then assuming this is how to live their life. But are you saying hiphop makes one to be destructive? ZupanGOD.
posted by thomcatspike at 11:00 AM on October 11, 2002
I know one's actions can be swayed or better word, tempted. Because I've seen it, in the numbing of one's brain from listening to the rhetoric of music lyrics then assuming this is how to live their life. But are you saying hiphop makes one to be destructive? ZupanGOD.
posted by thomcatspike at 11:00 AM on October 11, 2002
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posted by thebigpoop at 8:14 AM on September 27, 2002