Trump's Pick for Vice-President
July 15, 2024 12:37 PM Subscribe
James David Vance, a junior United States senator from Ohio elected in 2022 and author of a 2016 memoir, Hillbilly Elegy, who has previously said in reference to Donald Trump, "I'm a never Trump guy", "never liked him", "terrible candidate", "idiot if you voted for him", "might be America's Hitler", "might be a cynical a-hole", "cultural heroin", "noxious", and "reprehensible", has just been announced as Trump's running mate for 2024.
There are moments where you can really, plainly see the grasping nihilism at the heart of the American project, and this week is one of them.
posted by ryanshepard at 12:44 PM on July 15 [63 favorites]
posted by ryanshepard at 12:44 PM on July 15 [63 favorites]
Look, there's just no possible world in which Trump's VP pick doesn't make the median Metafilterian sigh and say "ugh." Or similar. I'm gonna go do the dishes.
posted by Tomorrowful at 12:45 PM on July 15 [42 favorites]
posted by Tomorrowful at 12:45 PM on July 15 [42 favorites]
👁👁 Ulysses S. Grant.
posted by BobTheScientist at 12:47 PM on July 15
posted by BobTheScientist at 12:47 PM on July 15
Tomorrowful is right. Nevertheless:
A severe "I told you so" to any of my left-leaning friends who told me Hillbilly Elegy really taught them something about the other side and about Appalachia and wasn't just an opportunistic turd of a book with horrifying politics.
posted by HeroZero at 12:47 PM on July 15 [84 favorites]
A severe "I told you so" to any of my left-leaning friends who told me Hillbilly Elegy really taught them something about the other side and about Appalachia and wasn't just an opportunistic turd of a book with horrifying politics.
posted by HeroZero at 12:47 PM on July 15 [84 favorites]
lmao. The world's most annoying liberals are about to utterly inundate the used bookstores of America with their dog-eared copies of Hillbilly Elegy.
posted by One Second Before Awakening at 12:51 PM on July 15 [21 favorites]
posted by One Second Before Awakening at 12:51 PM on July 15 [21 favorites]
The full quote, from a private text to a friend in 2016: "I go back and forth between thinking Trump is a cynical asshole like Nixon who wouldn’t be that bad (and might even prove useful) or that he’s America’s Hitler. How’s that for discouraging?"
Cynical asshole indeed.
posted by Mr.Know-it-some at 12:53 PM on July 15 [28 favorites]
Cynical asshole indeed.
posted by Mr.Know-it-some at 12:53 PM on July 15 [28 favorites]
I attended a public library's used book sale last weekend, and, trust me, they've already gotten rid of them.
I don't see what Vance brings to the table in terms of votes--Trump might think Vance has some kind of Rust Belt/Appalachia cosign, but he comes off more like the guy who's sent by corporate to talk you out of forming a union, or the management consultant who tells you they're closing the coal mine.
posted by box at 12:53 PM on July 15 [55 favorites]
I don't see what Vance brings to the table in terms of votes--Trump might think Vance has some kind of Rust Belt/Appalachia cosign, but he comes off more like the guy who's sent by corporate to talk you out of forming a union, or the management consultant who tells you they're closing the coal mine.
posted by box at 12:53 PM on July 15 [55 favorites]
The only thing interesting about this is his last running mate was an actual true believer who balked when the insurrection came knocking. So now Trump has gone with another cynical populist. Thing is, Vance is in many ways the person Trump claims to be. Someone with a working class background who was a Marine, who got a law degree from Yale, who was a venture capitalist. Not someone who inherited a real estate fortune.
Not saying Vance is a good person. He's entirely mercenary - going wherever the populists winds blow. Before the Trump presidency I would say someone like Vance is actually scarier than Trump because he's not openly a creep or an idiot. But seeing as none of that prevented Trump from being elected in the first place, I don't even know what to think anymore.
posted by thecjm at 12:53 PM on July 15 [30 favorites]
Not saying Vance is a good person. He's entirely mercenary - going wherever the populists winds blow. Before the Trump presidency I would say someone like Vance is actually scarier than Trump because he's not openly a creep or an idiot. But seeing as none of that prevented Trump from being elected in the first place, I don't even know what to think anymore.
posted by thecjm at 12:53 PM on July 15 [30 favorites]
Long term Peter Thiel project.
posted by Artw at 12:54 PM on July 15 [50 favorites]
posted by Artw at 12:54 PM on July 15 [50 favorites]
🤮
posted by bashos_frog at 12:54 PM on July 15 [4 favorites]
posted by bashos_frog at 12:54 PM on July 15 [4 favorites]
I'd love for Vance to be just another cynical lickspittle, bit there's reason to believe he's a true believer -- not just in Trumpism, but in something darker and more ambitious.
From Politico in March:
Is There Something More Radical than MAGA? J.D. Vance Is Dreaming It.
posted by Rhaomi at 12:55 PM on July 15 [21 favorites]
From Politico in March:
Is There Something More Radical than MAGA? J.D. Vance Is Dreaming It.
In certain conservative circles, Vance has emerged as the standard-bearer of the “New Right,” a loose movement of young, edgy and elite conservatives trying to take the ideological revolution that began under Trump — including his overt embrace of nationalism, his hard-line stance on immigration, his vocal opposition of U.S. involvement in foreign conflicts like Ukraine and his overt skepticism toward certain liberal democratic principles — in an even more radical direction. Unlike Trump’s more conventional Republican followers, Vance’s New Right cohort see Trump as merely the first step in a broader populist-nationalist revolution that is already reshaping the American right — and, if they get their way, that will soon reshape America as a whole. [...]Note that Vance is the youngest VP pick since Nixon.
But on the whole, he presented a sweeping and strikingly systematic account of the outlook that has shaped his tenure in office, premised upon a vision of the current moment in American history that is darker and more cataclysmic than anything he has described in public. He was candid about his desire to fundamentally transform the Republican Party, and he sketched the outlines of an agenda that would, in effect, amount to a radical restructuring of the American economy, U.S. foreign policy and even its constitutional order. He spoke about this project not in terms of election cycles but decades.
posted by Rhaomi at 12:55 PM on July 15 [21 favorites]
Here we go. Pence is a bad person but fairly unambitious, but Vance is even worse and extremely ambitious. A consummate liar. We will see some sparks with the VP debate with Harris (assuming Harris isn't the nominee...the clock is ticking, Dems).
posted by zardoz at 12:55 PM on July 15 [13 favorites]
posted by zardoz at 12:55 PM on July 15 [13 favorites]
Trump's salivating at 4 years of getting to humiliate Vance at every turn like he did Pence.
posted by ctmf at 12:55 PM on July 15 [15 favorites]
posted by ctmf at 12:55 PM on July 15 [15 favorites]
J.D. stands for Justice Denied
posted by Joey Michaels at 12:56 PM on July 15 [7 favorites]
posted by Joey Michaels at 12:56 PM on July 15 [7 favorites]
Don’t see how this gains him any votes. He was winning Ohio anyway. Mike Pence had all the religious stuff but for the most part people didn’t have hugely strong feelings about him one way or another. However, a lot of people despise Vance. And he’s about to get a real spotlight on him.
posted by azpenguin at 12:57 PM on July 15 [12 favorites]
posted by azpenguin at 12:57 PM on July 15 [12 favorites]
He seems nice.
posted by Captaintripps at 12:58 PM on July 15 [12 favorites]
posted by Captaintripps at 12:58 PM on July 15 [12 favorites]
today's Paul Ryan!
posted by djseafood at 12:58 PM on July 15 [4 favorites]
posted by djseafood at 12:58 PM on July 15 [4 favorites]
why wasn't pence the pick again, someone remind me
posted by lescour at 12:59 PM on July 15 [42 favorites]
posted by lescour at 12:59 PM on July 15 [42 favorites]
I think he :
i) looks Manly And Young and White
ii) forms Whole Sentences Of Intelligible Cruelty
iii) can reassure the dark (and not so dark) money people that their $ will buy them what they want ....or that their money is safe
iv) is intelligent enough to know when to dog whistle and know when to bay for blood
v) was a veteran, has a family who survived drug addiction
vi) has peter thiel's ear and his network's resources now
As much as I loathe him and everything he stands for, he's formidable in this landscape, and by no means a dumb pick by Trump at all.
posted by lalochezia at 1:03 PM on July 15 [56 favorites]
i) looks Manly And Young and White
ii) forms Whole Sentences Of Intelligible Cruelty
iii) can reassure the dark (and not so dark) money people that their $ will buy them what they want ....or that their money is safe
iv) is intelligent enough to know when to dog whistle and know when to bay for blood
v) was a veteran, has a family who survived drug addiction
vi) has peter thiel's ear and his network's resources now
As much as I loathe him and everything he stands for, he's formidable in this landscape, and by no means a dumb pick by Trump at all.
posted by lalochezia at 1:03 PM on July 15 [56 favorites]
Don’t see how this gains him any votes. He was winning Ohio anyway.I presume this is less about traditional geography-based vote pandering and more about dynastic alliance with tech VC money networks.
posted by Nerd of the North at 1:04 PM on July 15 [45 favorites]
Do you think Ron Howard feels kinda stupid for making that movie now
posted by theodolite at 1:07 PM on July 15 [46 favorites]
posted by theodolite at 1:07 PM on July 15 [46 favorites]
Well, that answers the not-really-a-question about whether Trump meant what he said when he talked about turning down the temperature. JD Vance is about as big of a bomb thrower as there is and is well known for it.
posted by wierdo at 1:07 PM on July 15 [6 favorites]
posted by wierdo at 1:07 PM on July 15 [6 favorites]
I'm furious that I have to see that dude's smug face at least until November. He is genuinely the worst. I hate him viscerally.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 1:09 PM on July 15 [23 favorites]
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 1:09 PM on July 15 [23 favorites]
Let's not forgot Vance's elite, Wall Street, and Silicon Valley origins:
"After graduating from Ohio State, Vance attended Yale Law School, where he was an editor of the Yale Law Journal. During his first year, his professor Amy Chua, author of Battle Hymn of the Tiger Mother, persuaded him to write his memoir."
"After working at Sidley Austin LLP, Vance moved to San Francisco to work in the tech industry as a venture capitalist. He served as a principal at Peter Thiel's firm, Mithril Capital, between 2016 and 2017."
(source: Wikipedia)
posted by doctornemo at 1:10 PM on July 15 [14 favorites]
"After graduating from Ohio State, Vance attended Yale Law School, where he was an editor of the Yale Law Journal. During his first year, his professor Amy Chua, author of Battle Hymn of the Tiger Mother, persuaded him to write his memoir."
"After working at Sidley Austin LLP, Vance moved to San Francisco to work in the tech industry as a venture capitalist. He served as a principal at Peter Thiel's firm, Mithril Capital, between 2016 and 2017."
(source: Wikipedia)
posted by doctornemo at 1:10 PM on July 15 [14 favorites]
I loathe Peter Thiel.
posted by elmono at 1:11 PM on July 15 [12 favorites]
posted by elmono at 1:11 PM on July 15 [12 favorites]
The Democratic ticket:
Biden and Harris
The Republican ticket:
Two poos in a pod
posted by johnofjack at 1:16 PM on July 15 [8 favorites]
Biden and Harris
The Republican ticket:
Two poos in a pod
posted by johnofjack at 1:16 PM on July 15 [8 favorites]
It's amazing to me how much the media has been spinning things towards Trump. The debate seems to have changed less than people feared. Then the Trump assassination attempt has pundits saying it gives him an advantage.
But if it didn't seem like the rich, powerful, and influential were doing everything they could sway the election to Trump, these would seem to be powerful fundamentals:
1) Biden is the incumbent
2) Biden won last time
3) The economy and market are doing really well
4) Two political changes with huge societal effects can drive a lot of votes to Biden: ending abortion rights and forgiving student debt
I think it was forgiving student debt that spooked the plutocrats. The idea that the government could allocate funds to just directly help people (and not specifically rich and connected people, and more generally younger people), and that those people would then reward the Democrats with votes, seems like it would short-circuit their minds.
And with Squad member Jamaal Bowman losing his primary, I think the status quo lobbyists see a pathway to neutralizing leftward movement.
I agree above with what lalochchezia above writes, but I wonder if Trump already had something of a lock on those whose priority was voting for a manly presenting white male.
posted by Schmucko at 1:17 PM on July 15 [12 favorites]
But if it didn't seem like the rich, powerful, and influential were doing everything they could sway the election to Trump, these would seem to be powerful fundamentals:
1) Biden is the incumbent
2) Biden won last time
3) The economy and market are doing really well
4) Two political changes with huge societal effects can drive a lot of votes to Biden: ending abortion rights and forgiving student debt
I think it was forgiving student debt that spooked the plutocrats. The idea that the government could allocate funds to just directly help people (and not specifically rich and connected people, and more generally younger people), and that those people would then reward the Democrats with votes, seems like it would short-circuit their minds.
And with Squad member Jamaal Bowman losing his primary, I think the status quo lobbyists see a pathway to neutralizing leftward movement.
I agree above with what lalochchezia above writes, but I wonder if Trump already had something of a lock on those whose priority was voting for a manly presenting white male.
posted by Schmucko at 1:17 PM on July 15 [12 favorites]
This is insurance against another assassination attempt. Who now would shoot Trump and elevate this guy to POTUS?
posted by GhostintheMachine at 1:21 PM on July 15 [11 favorites]
posted by GhostintheMachine at 1:21 PM on July 15 [11 favorites]
Inside the New Right, Where Peter Thiel is Placing his Biggest Bets
Vance described two possibilities that many on the New Right imagine—that our system will either fall apart naturally, or that a great leader will assume semi-dictatorial powers.posted by Rhaomi at 1:21 PM on July 15 [48 favorites]
“So there’s this guy Curtis Yarvin, who has written about some of these things,” Vance said. Murphy chortled knowingly. “So one [option] is to basically accept that this entire thing is going to fall in on itself,” Vance went on. “And so the task of conservatives right now is to preserve as much as can be preserved,” waiting for the “inevitable collapse” of the current order.
He said he thought this was pessimistic. “I tend to think that we should seize the institutions of the left,” he said. “And turn them against the left. We need like a de-Baathification program, a de-woke-ification program.”
“I think Trump is going to run again in 2024,” he said. “I think that what Trump should do, if I was giving him one piece of advice: Fire every single midlevel bureaucrat, every civil servant in the administrative state, replace them with our people.”
“And when the courts stop you,” he went on, “stand before the country, and say—” he quoted Andrew Jackson, giving a challenge to the entire constitutional order—“the chief justice has made his ruling. Now let him enforce it.”
This is a description, essentially, of a coup.
First 100 Days: The Selective Service starts sending our young men to live on Thiel's blood farms.
posted by mittens at 1:22 PM on July 15 [5 favorites]
posted by mittens at 1:22 PM on July 15 [5 favorites]
You know, I read Hillbilly Elegy before Vance went off the deep end, and I thought it was ... alright, I guess. But then I watched the movie, and WTF? They altered it so much that it seemed to prove the opposite points that were made in the book. Anyone else have this experience?
I wonder if it has anything to do with Vance reversing himself on positions he held not all that long ago.
posted by panama joe at 1:23 PM on July 15 [1 favorite]
I wonder if it has anything to do with Vance reversing himself on positions he held not all that long ago.
posted by panama joe at 1:23 PM on July 15 [1 favorite]
Yeah, this isn't so much to gain votes, it's to set up Vance as the heir to the Trump legacy, and Vance is pretty scary, a full-on fascist, but much more well-spoken, coherent, and intelligent than Trump. What Trump starts in his second term, Thiel and company want Vance to finish.
posted by Joakim Ziegler at 1:25 PM on July 15 [16 favorites]
posted by Joakim Ziegler at 1:25 PM on July 15 [16 favorites]
has previously said in reference to Donald Trump … "terrible candidate", "idiot if you voted for him", "might be America's Hitler", "might be a cynical a-hole", "cultural heroin", "noxious", and "reprehensible"
He can use the same quotes as endorsements now.
posted by mazola at 1:26 PM on July 15 [6 favorites]
He can use the same quotes as endorsements now.
posted by mazola at 1:26 PM on July 15 [6 favorites]
This is insurance against another assassination attempt. Who now would shoot Trump and elevate this guy to POTUS?
Vance would. As soon as it’s convenient.
posted by wabbittwax at 1:28 PM on July 15 [19 favorites]
Vance would. As soon as it’s convenient.
posted by wabbittwax at 1:28 PM on July 15 [19 favorites]
via Drudge
ONCE VEHEMENT CRITIC...
COMPARED DON TO HITLER...
SUGGESTED GUILTY OF SEX ASSAULT...
YOUNGEST NOMINEE SINCE NIXON...
NEARLY 40-YEAR AGE GAP...
VENTURE CAPITALIST, 'HILLBILLY' AUTHOR...
posted by robbyrobs at 1:29 PM on July 15 [1 favorite]
ONCE VEHEMENT CRITIC...
COMPARED DON TO HITLER...
SUGGESTED GUILTY OF SEX ASSAULT...
YOUNGEST NOMINEE SINCE NIXON...
NEARLY 40-YEAR AGE GAP...
VENTURE CAPITALIST, 'HILLBILLY' AUTHOR...
posted by robbyrobs at 1:29 PM on July 15 [1 favorite]
Has the press asked him what he would have done in Pence's position yet?
posted by mazola at 1:30 PM on July 15 [6 favorites]
posted by mazola at 1:30 PM on July 15 [6 favorites]
Ad campaigns heavily featuring negative comments from JD Vance about DJTactually seem like they might leave a mark.
posted by constraint at 1:30 PM on July 15 [10 favorites]
posted by constraint at 1:30 PM on July 15 [10 favorites]
If I can be calculating for a sec, Vance is a pretty good choice. Amazed that Trump was talked into him, cos of the prior comments, and also because this is a guy who can think circles around TFG.
posted by Artful Codger at 1:35 PM on July 15 [2 favorites]
posted by Artful Codger at 1:35 PM on July 15 [2 favorites]
I would say extremely dumb pick by Trump in any other universe where he wasn't running against someone as weak as Biden, which would possibly be threatening to Trump's candidacy and might not even have ended up on the ticket. Vance is extremely unlikeable. People are forgetting that he needed Trump more than Trump ever needed Vance during his senate campaign, which was pretty cooked until Trump came in and finally endorsed.
posted by windbox at 1:36 PM on July 15 [3 favorites]
posted by windbox at 1:36 PM on July 15 [3 favorites]
Wait, Vance is quoting Yarvin? Of course he is. Ugh.
posted by misterpatrick at 1:37 PM on July 15 [5 favorites]
posted by misterpatrick at 1:37 PM on July 15 [5 favorites]
JD Vance is one of the few American politicians of any stripe to acknowledge the country’s oncoming demographic apocalypse. And then of course, he gets on board with Trump, who’s going to make it worse by reducing immigration.
posted by jackbrown at 1:37 PM on July 15 [2 favorites]
posted by jackbrown at 1:37 PM on July 15 [2 favorites]
Hmm. Talked about women, a black guy (Tim Scott), a Hispanic (Rubio), and chose a non-Hispanic white guy. What are the odds?
No administrative experience. Less than 2 years as an elected official. Half Trump's age.
Wrote a book, so he's probably actually read one.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 1:38 PM on July 15 [4 favorites]
No administrative experience. Less than 2 years as an elected official. Half Trump's age.
Wrote a book, so he's probably actually read one.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 1:38 PM on July 15 [4 favorites]
Putting aside all serious discussion, and putting on my Jeopardy/pub quiz hat, I am pretty sure Vance is the first person on a major Presidential ticket to have facial hair since Charles Evan Hughes (P) and Charles Fairbanks (VP) on the Republican side, and Thomas Marshall (VP) for the Democrats, in the 1916 election.
posted by fortitude25 at 1:41 PM on July 15 [7 favorites]
posted by fortitude25 at 1:41 PM on July 15 [7 favorites]
Thomas Dewey had a mustache
posted by LionIndex at 1:43 PM on July 15 [4 favorites]
posted by LionIndex at 1:43 PM on July 15 [4 favorites]
Thomas Dewey had a mustache
You're right! I always forget about him!
posted by fortitude25 at 1:44 PM on July 15 [3 favorites]
You're right! I always forget about him!
posted by fortitude25 at 1:44 PM on July 15 [3 favorites]
JD Vance consists of one human-shaped empty vessel, that whatever vestigial higher reasoning it contains, works to fill itself with whatever it thinks will give it power.
His only saving grace is that he has negative charisma.
posted by rhymedirective at 1:48 PM on July 15 [9 favorites]
His only saving grace is that he has negative charisma.
posted by rhymedirective at 1:48 PM on July 15 [9 favorites]
Nixon had a jailhouse five o'clock shadow.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 1:48 PM on July 15 [6 favorites]
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 1:48 PM on July 15 [6 favorites]
I read Hillbilly Elegy for the first time pretty recently, when it became clear that Vance was in the running for VP. Upon finishing it, I was absolutely certain that Vance would be the pick -- not because of his ideas, biography, or politics, but because his daddy issues are a perfect match for Trump's narcissism. Trump -- and others like him -- have a bloodhound's nose for that kind of vulnerability. I'm not trying to be cruel or flippant here -- this is hard experience talking.
posted by ourobouros at 1:49 PM on July 15 [55 favorites]
posted by ourobouros at 1:49 PM on July 15 [55 favorites]
He's the worst form of grifter. He "should know" better than to immediately -- like minutes after the assassination try occurred -- to blame "Democratic speech" for such things. He ignores the blatant monster trump is. His wife clerked for Kavs/the chief justice/is a litigator at some elite law firm. He also did some periods in billionaire funded venture capital. When he cared about the VC crowd, he did call Trump what he is -- a stain, a dictator.
When he cares about his advancement in politics -- he's great, he's good.
He sickens more than really than even Trump. He KNOWS better. But he is a willing executioner for democracy for his own power and greed.
posted by skepticallypleased at 1:50 PM on July 15 [8 favorites]
When he cares about his advancement in politics -- he's great, he's good.
He sickens more than really than even Trump. He KNOWS better. But he is a willing executioner for democracy for his own power and greed.
posted by skepticallypleased at 1:50 PM on July 15 [8 favorites]
I'm struggling to process a lot of stuff this last week or more, but right now I'm stuck on the fact that he was born in 1984.
1984
I was in high school.
he is completely vile and I agree this pick is about the corporate masters, not the voting public (like we matter lol)
posted by supermedusa at 1:52 PM on July 15 [8 favorites]
1984
I was in high school.
he is completely vile and I agree this pick is about the corporate masters, not the voting public (like we matter lol)
posted by supermedusa at 1:52 PM on July 15 [8 favorites]
I'm not sure if this gets Trump anything or not, really. Way too early to tell, IMO. But my read on this is that this wasn't Trump's pick, but rather his owners'.
posted by Navelgazer at 1:52 PM on July 15 [9 favorites]
posted by Navelgazer at 1:52 PM on July 15 [9 favorites]
I'm pretty sure that the main reason for this pick is that he has a one syllable last name.
posted by spilon at 1:52 PM on July 15 [7 favorites]
posted by spilon at 1:52 PM on July 15 [7 favorites]
JD Vance on PO1135809:
"My god, what an idiot..."
"You're an idiot if you voted for PO1135809..."
"He might be America's Hitler..."
"I can't stomach PO1135809..."
"Mr. PO1135809 is unfit for our nation's highest office..."
"...he's a cynical a-hole..."
"Obnoxious"
"Reprehensible"
"Cultural heroin"
Another upstanding Republican with moral clarity and conviction of conscience...
I sure hope nobody sits this election out...too much is at stake in Roevember...
posted by Chuffy at 1:53 PM on July 15 [10 favorites]
"My god, what an idiot..."
"You're an idiot if you voted for PO1135809..."
"He might be America's Hitler..."
"I can't stomach PO1135809..."
"Mr. PO1135809 is unfit for our nation's highest office..."
"...he's a cynical a-hole..."
"Obnoxious"
"Reprehensible"
"Cultural heroin"
Another upstanding Republican with moral clarity and conviction of conscience...
I sure hope nobody sits this election out...too much is at stake in Roevember...
posted by Chuffy at 1:53 PM on July 15 [10 favorites]
Putting aside all serious discussion, and putting on my Jeopardy/pub quiz hat, I am pretty sure Vance is the first person on a major Presidential ticket to have facial hair since Charles Evan Hughes (P) and Charles Fairbanks (VP) on the Republican side, and Thomas Marshall (VP) for the Democrats, in the 1916 election.
Beards and other manliness signifiers are big with the alt-right. Of course, it doesn't hurt that he has that eye color and generally looks like a cornfed version of a Waffen SS propaganda poster boy.
posted by Joakim Ziegler at 1:54 PM on July 15 [6 favorites]
Beards and other manliness signifiers are big with the alt-right. Of course, it doesn't hurt that he has that eye color and generally looks like a cornfed version of a Waffen SS propaganda poster boy.
posted by Joakim Ziegler at 1:54 PM on July 15 [6 favorites]
I apologize to worldwide MeFis. So many American politics threads. We are frazzled here trying to process this.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 1:55 PM on July 15 [21 favorites]
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 1:55 PM on July 15 [21 favorites]
Vance maps so closely to Trump that I don't see how he brings in any new voters. Also, his history of slagging Trump is going to dog him.
posted by orange swan at 1:55 PM on July 15 [10 favorites]
posted by orange swan at 1:55 PM on July 15 [10 favorites]
previously said in reference to Donald Trump, "I'm a never Trump guy", "never liked him", "terrible candidate", "idiot if you voted for him", "might be America's Hitler", "might be a cynical a-hole", "cultural heroin", "noxious", and "reprehensible"
But he'll be his VP, because nothing matters more than getting the chance to be backup to an unhealthy old guy people are shooting at.
posted by pracowity at 1:56 PM on July 15 [13 favorites]
But he'll be his VP, because nothing matters more than getting the chance to be backup to an unhealthy old guy people are shooting at.
posted by pracowity at 1:56 PM on July 15 [13 favorites]
Look, there's just no possible world in which Trump's VP pick doesn't make the median Metafilterian sigh and say "ugh." Or similar.
Burgum would have been relatively moderate enough to at least elicit head-scratches instead. Surprised that he ever made it to the shortlist.
posted by Apocryphon at 1:58 PM on July 15 [1 favorite]
Burgum would have been relatively moderate enough to at least elicit head-scratches instead. Surprised that he ever made it to the shortlist.
posted by Apocryphon at 1:58 PM on July 15 [1 favorite]
"And when the courts stop you,” he went on, “stand before the country, and say—” he quoted Andrew Jackson, giving a challenge to the entire constitutional order—“the chief justice has made his ruling. Now let him enforce it.”
The quotation Vance is making (which Jackson never actually said) was in reference to Worcester v. Georgia, in which The Supreme Court upheld the concept of tribal sovereignty for Native Americans (and the Cherokee people in particular) but which Jackson ignored and which led to the forced migration known as the Trail of Tears.
So you know what Vance has in mind.
posted by dannyboybell at 2:00 PM on July 15 [44 favorites]
The quotation Vance is making (which Jackson never actually said) was in reference to Worcester v. Georgia, in which The Supreme Court upheld the concept of tribal sovereignty for Native Americans (and the Cherokee people in particular) but which Jackson ignored and which led to the forced migration known as the Trail of Tears.
So you know what Vance has in mind.
posted by dannyboybell at 2:00 PM on July 15 [44 favorites]
>oncoming demographic apocalypse
aka fewer bullshit jobs since the labor force will be pushed to more pressing employment
Japan's rents are still what they were when I was there 30 years ago. If that's demographic apocalypse, sign me the f up
posted by torokunai at 2:00 PM on July 15 [11 favorites]
aka fewer bullshit jobs since the labor force will be pushed to more pressing employment
Japan's rents are still what they were when I was there 30 years ago. If that's demographic apocalypse, sign me the f up
posted by torokunai at 2:00 PM on July 15 [11 favorites]
All of his quotes lambasting Trump juxtaposed against him being his VP pick tells you everything you need to know about the man. He is the snake in that poem Donald likes to recite.
posted by wabbittwax at 2:01 PM on July 15 [3 favorites]
posted by wabbittwax at 2:01 PM on July 15 [3 favorites]
Did Putin and Thiel command Trump to choose JD Vance? Cause Trump has that lizard brain instinct of surrounding himself with dimwitted toadies who pose zero threat. Vance is way way way smarter than Trump and will turn on him in a moment if possible.
posted by Glibpaxman at 2:03 PM on July 15 [15 favorites]
posted by Glibpaxman at 2:03 PM on July 15 [15 favorites]
I'll be interested in the woman who has prosecuted sexual assault crimes debating the rapist's running mate who has himself called rape "inconvenient."
posted by NorthernLite at 2:03 PM on July 15 [7 favorites]
posted by NorthernLite at 2:03 PM on July 15 [7 favorites]
Ad campaigns heavily featuring negative comments from JD Vance about DJTactually seem like they might leave a mark.
The Lincoln Project is way ahead of you.
posted by dannyboybell at 2:05 PM on July 15 [4 favorites]
The Lincoln Project is way ahead of you.
posted by dannyboybell at 2:05 PM on July 15 [4 favorites]
Some multi-millionaires and billionaires want Trump to win, and some other multi-millionaires and billionaires want Biden to win. As long as the wealth continues to flood into the DNC and RNC coffers, and then gets cycled back with staggering returns into the hands of the multi-millionaires and billionaires, then why are plebes like us making a fuss?
A pox on both your houses: RNC/DNC! With your continued tax cuts, your supreme court (Citizens United), and the culture wars, you reap what you sow.
posted by nikoniko at 2:06 PM on July 15 [9 favorites]
A pox on both your houses: RNC/DNC! With your continued tax cuts, your supreme court (Citizens United), and the culture wars, you reap what you sow.
posted by nikoniko at 2:06 PM on July 15 [9 favorites]
Vance's history of trashing Trump will make great fodder for his opponents. I see the Biden-Harris campaign is already on it.
posted by orange swan at 2:07 PM on July 15 [2 favorites]
posted by orange swan at 2:07 PM on July 15 [2 favorites]
The Lincoln Project is way ahead of you.
George Conway briefly bestirs himself from gin and Cheetos to launch another super meaningful fusillade.
posted by ryanshepard at 2:10 PM on July 15 [9 favorites]
George Conway briefly bestirs himself from gin and Cheetos to launch another super meaningful fusillade.
posted by ryanshepard at 2:10 PM on July 15 [9 favorites]
I find myself thinking of the elections of not so long ago, Obama vs Romney or Obama vs McCain. The stakes seemed so high, real good versus evil stuff. The sputtering outrage and urgency I felt then seem rather naive to me now. Romney and McCain were both deeply flawed, weird men, but they weren't totally crazy and evil. My god, those assholes were saints on Earth, compared to Trump and Vance. (Although Palin, of course, was and is a total shit show. A real harbinger of the dark days to come, that one.)
posted by Ursula Hitler at 2:11 PM on July 15 [19 favorites]
posted by Ursula Hitler at 2:11 PM on July 15 [19 favorites]
History of Trashing Trump
Trump also famously despises anyone stealing his thunder for any reason at all: a clever strategist could get mileage out of making J.D. (aka “Trump’s Brain”) the de facto face of the campaign.
posted by ducky l'orange at 2:12 PM on July 15 [10 favorites]
Trump also famously despises anyone stealing his thunder for any reason at all: a clever strategist could get mileage out of making J.D. (aka “Trump’s Brain”) the de facto face of the campaign.
posted by ducky l'orange at 2:12 PM on July 15 [10 favorites]
An interesting bit of info I just learned: his wife (Usha Chilukuri) is the daughter of Indian immigrants who grew up in the Bay Area.
It's a not-so-fun house mirror version of a liberal, upper middle class couple, in my opinion. They met at Yale Law School, for chrissakes, just like Bill & Hilary. But then Chilukuri clerked for Roberts and then Kavanaugh.
His turnabout on Trump seems to be due to Thiel, who sold his soul for power and money, apparently.
posted by honey badger at 2:16 PM on July 15 [10 favorites]
It's a not-so-fun house mirror version of a liberal, upper middle class couple, in my opinion. They met at Yale Law School, for chrissakes, just like Bill & Hilary. But then Chilukuri clerked for Roberts and then Kavanaugh.
His turnabout on Trump seems to be due to Thiel, who sold his soul for power and money, apparently.
posted by honey badger at 2:16 PM on July 15 [10 favorites]
Peter Thiel soll wieder züruck nach Deutschland gehen — verdammte Ausländer!
posted by nikoniko at 2:22 PM on July 15 [3 favorites]
posted by nikoniko at 2:22 PM on July 15 [3 favorites]
They picked him so they can still use last campaign's signs and bumper stickers - they only have to cut and paste over two letters!
posted by Daily Alice at 2:25 PM on July 15 [15 favorites]
posted by Daily Alice at 2:25 PM on July 15 [15 favorites]
This changes nothing for me. We will tie Trump-Vance to Project 2025 and defeat them by turning out.
posted by ichomp at 2:26 PM on July 15 [34 favorites]
posted by ichomp at 2:26 PM on July 15 [34 favorites]
I find myself thinking of the elections of not so long ago, Obama vs Romney or Obama vs McCain. The stakes seemed so high, real good versus evil stuff. The sputtering outrage and urgency I felt then seem rather naive to me now. Romney and McCain were both deeply flawed, weird men, but they weren't totally crazy and evil. My god, those assholes were saints on Earth, compared to Trump and Vance. (Although Palin, of course, was and is a total shit show. A real harbinger of the dark days to come, that one.)
I get this perspective but there's also a "mask off" quality here. A lot of what makes Trump "Trump" in terms of power and being shielded from accountability is the reworking of the judiciary by fairly mainstream Republicans. If two pre-Trump Republicans in a row won the Presidency, SCOTUS would look the same today as it does under Trump, down to some of the same Federalist-blessed individuals. I think it's always been good versus evil stuff. Or like, semi-evil versus gates of hell stuff.
posted by kensington314 at 2:29 PM on July 15 [20 favorites]
I get this perspective but there's also a "mask off" quality here. A lot of what makes Trump "Trump" in terms of power and being shielded from accountability is the reworking of the judiciary by fairly mainstream Republicans. If two pre-Trump Republicans in a row won the Presidency, SCOTUS would look the same today as it does under Trump, down to some of the same Federalist-blessed individuals. I think it's always been good versus evil stuff. Or like, semi-evil versus gates of hell stuff.
posted by kensington314 at 2:29 PM on July 15 [20 favorites]
Cute lil anecdote here.
I'm still in contact with a young woman my son was friends with in high school; she's a sweet girl. When Vance and his family moved to Cincinnati a few years back, they bought a house on the same small street my son's friend's family lives on. According to her, he was a terrible neighbor and literally no one on the street gave him the time of day. The residents are a mix of quite conservative and quite liberal and some are quite influential members of the community. Not a single person liked Vance in any way.
I don't know if the Vance family still lives there; the auditor website has that home listed under an LLC.
posted by cooker girl at 2:35 PM on July 15 [30 favorites]
I'm still in contact with a young woman my son was friends with in high school; she's a sweet girl. When Vance and his family moved to Cincinnati a few years back, they bought a house on the same small street my son's friend's family lives on. According to her, he was a terrible neighbor and literally no one on the street gave him the time of day. The residents are a mix of quite conservative and quite liberal and some are quite influential members of the community. Not a single person liked Vance in any way.
I don't know if the Vance family still lives there; the auditor website has that home listed under an LLC.
posted by cooker girl at 2:35 PM on July 15 [30 favorites]
Has the press asked him what he would have done in Pence's position yet?
Welp, it turns out they have:
posted by mazola at 2:37 PM on July 15 [28 favorites]
Welp, it turns out they have:
Vance has said that, had he been vice president in 2020, he would have carried out Trump’s scheme for the vice president to overturn the election results. He has fundraised for January 6 rioters. He once called on the Justice Department to open a criminal investigation into a Washington Post columnist who penned a critical piece about Trump. After last week’s assassination attempt on Trump, he attempted to whitewash his radicalism by blaming the shooting on Democrats’ rhetoric about democracy without an iota of evidence.From What J.D. Vance really believes: The dark worldview of Trump's choice for vice president, explained. [Vox]
posted by mazola at 2:37 PM on July 15 [28 favorites]
J. D. Vance as V.P. is frightening for all the reasons people have laid out - but I also agree that this choice doesn't really help Trump's odds of winning. Nikki Haley, if the two reconciled, would have been a more strategic pick. Vance is about as likable as DeSantis.
Regardless, the Democrats really need to get their act together and promote Harris already.
posted by coffeecat at 2:37 PM on July 15 [14 favorites]
Regardless, the Democrats really need to get their act together and promote Harris already.
posted by coffeecat at 2:37 PM on July 15 [14 favorites]
were both deeply flawed, weird men, but they weren't totally crazy and evil
For some reason the GOP has adopted this reoccurring pattern in the 20th century. So you get crazy polarizing Nixon, Reagan, Dubya, Trump, with the flawed moderate duds Ford and Bush the elder in between. Rising tension and receding calm.
posted by Apocryphon at 2:43 PM on July 15 [2 favorites]
For some reason the GOP has adopted this reoccurring pattern in the 20th century. So you get crazy polarizing Nixon, Reagan, Dubya, Trump, with the flawed moderate duds Ford and Bush the elder in between. Rising tension and receding calm.
posted by Apocryphon at 2:43 PM on July 15 [2 favorites]
So how long for this fakey love fest until Trump shows that "I dont like this Vance guy"?
posted by robbyrobs at 2:43 PM on July 15 [4 favorites]
posted by robbyrobs at 2:43 PM on July 15 [4 favorites]
If two pre-Trump Republicans in a row won the Presidency, SCOTUS would look the same today as it does under Trump, down to some of the same Federalist-blessed individuals.
It's good to remember that on economics issues and the like, Trump governed like a pretty mainstream Republican. Also good to remember that even without him in 2016 the Republican frontrunner was Ted Cruz. Without MAGA, the Democrats would still be quaking in their boots about the Tea Party or a successor movement mutated from it.
Also, wasn't Romney's border policy pretty much Trump's but quieter?
posted by Apocryphon at 2:46 PM on July 15 [2 favorites]
It's good to remember that on economics issues and the like, Trump governed like a pretty mainstream Republican. Also good to remember that even without him in 2016 the Republican frontrunner was Ted Cruz. Without MAGA, the Democrats would still be quaking in their boots about the Tea Party or a successor movement mutated from it.
Also, wasn't Romney's border policy pretty much Trump's but quieter?
posted by Apocryphon at 2:46 PM on July 15 [2 favorites]
A fookin' Mencius Moldbug admirer? What the fook?
posted by clawsoon at 2:49 PM on July 15 [6 favorites]
posted by clawsoon at 2:49 PM on July 15 [6 favorites]
The Lincoln Project is way ahead of you.
Quick reminder: share their ads if you want, but please *don't donate* to the Lincoln Project. They're all rich enough conservatives already who were partly responsible for the mess the GOP has become ("Victor Frankenstein in the crowd with a pitchfork" is one memorable line from Mother Jones) and have been criticized heavily in the past for pouring donations into the pockets of their board members and the companies those folks own, hiding where the money goes through subcontractors, and using much of the donation money to just make more ads asking for donations. That most of their donors have been ordinary liberals who get sucked in by their ads on social media just makes it worse. Not to mention the dubious effectiveness of those ads beyond the circle of folks who happily agree with them.
Donate instead to down-ballot campaigns in your local area, where your cash will actually do measurable good. The Lincoln Project will be fine without your money.
posted by mediareport at 2:57 PM on July 15 [48 favorites]
Quick reminder: share their ads if you want, but please *don't donate* to the Lincoln Project. They're all rich enough conservatives already who were partly responsible for the mess the GOP has become ("Victor Frankenstein in the crowd with a pitchfork" is one memorable line from Mother Jones) and have been criticized heavily in the past for pouring donations into the pockets of their board members and the companies those folks own, hiding where the money goes through subcontractors, and using much of the donation money to just make more ads asking for donations. That most of their donors have been ordinary liberals who get sucked in by their ads on social media just makes it worse. Not to mention the dubious effectiveness of those ads beyond the circle of folks who happily agree with them.
Donate instead to down-ballot campaigns in your local area, where your cash will actually do measurable good. The Lincoln Project will be fine without your money.
posted by mediareport at 2:57 PM on July 15 [48 favorites]
This, and the Cannon decision, changes nothing in the sense that our future still rests on the whims of one 81-year-old man and whether he decides to let someone with a realistic shot at beating this horrific pair give it a try, rather than trade American democracy in for a shrinking sliver of political relevance that expires in four months.
posted by dyslexictraveler at 2:58 PM on July 15 [10 favorites]
posted by dyslexictraveler at 2:58 PM on July 15 [10 favorites]
Oh for fucks sack
posted by Jarcat at 3:06 PM on July 15 [9 favorites]
posted by Jarcat at 3:06 PM on July 15 [9 favorites]
I would have been slightly more unhappy with a Burgum nomination, he seemed like a potential folksy, friendly candidate who could sugarcoat poisonous MAGA ideas so that mildly skeptical GOPers would have an excuse to swallow them.
Vance is unlikeable at Ted Cruz levels. Like others have said, I don't see him adding to the ticket.
posted by gimonca at 3:09 PM on July 15 [7 favorites]
Vance is unlikeable at Ted Cruz levels. Like others have said, I don't see him adding to the ticket.
posted by gimonca at 3:09 PM on July 15 [7 favorites]
"Biden should drop out" is gonna be the new "Bernie would've won" isn't it? It's so perfect because while it very well might be true, it's impossible to prove or disprove. No matter what action is taken, the left will be broken up and we'll just hate each other in flame wars for months.
posted by Glibpaxman at 3:09 PM on July 15 [50 favorites]
posted by Glibpaxman at 3:09 PM on July 15 [50 favorites]
(Ah, here it is: a sharp 2020 dissection of the Lincoln Project conservatives at Jacobin, focusing on how all that money folks sent them could have been better spent. Worth a read.)
posted by mediareport at 3:09 PM on July 15 [2 favorites]
posted by mediareport at 3:09 PM on July 15 [2 favorites]
To be clear, I did say that McCain and Romney were assholes. You could easily find lots and lots of lousy crap they both did. Republicans are Republicans. But you only have to look at this famous photo of Romney and Trump to see that they are very different lifeforms. Romney certainly has evil tendencies, but they're not his whole deal. Confronted with a thoroughly, unabashedly malevolent character like Trump, Romney squirms like he's sitting down to supper with the devil himself.
posted by Ursula Hitler at 3:10 PM on July 15 [7 favorites]
posted by Ursula Hitler at 3:10 PM on July 15 [7 favorites]
Yale law, a marine, an acclaimed author, survived a brutal childhood...seems a wise choice by Trump.
posted by Czjewel at 3:10 PM on July 15 [1 favorite]
posted by Czjewel at 3:10 PM on July 15 [1 favorite]
As a bare character sketch on paper, Vance might look good. But when you actually look at the details, when you actually see him speak, he's very off-putting. Even when he's preaching to the choir. Curiously similar to Vivek Ramaswamy in that regard, and they're both Ohioans who palled around together at Yale Law!
posted by Apocryphon at 3:17 PM on July 15 [12 favorites]
posted by Apocryphon at 3:17 PM on July 15 [12 favorites]
Meh. The only VP who ever moved the needle is Sarah Palin.
Watch the Dems come out swinging after this convention is over. It's just going to be a sheer blizzard of You're Getting Extrashitty Gilead If You Don't Vote For Us, with Biden way, way in the background looking amiable and Harris plus every 2028 wannabe out there reading Project 2025 to voters. The needle was already moving to that when Golden Toilet got shot, and that only just delayed it a week or so.
Go look at that rally where he got shot. It's half an hour from Pittsburgh and significantly closer to many affluent suburbs, but he had maaaybbbee 600 people in that audience. Everyone but the true believers is sick as shit of him. Vance is not going to bring in anyone new, just money.
posted by outgrown_hobnail at 3:23 PM on July 15 [26 favorites]
Watch the Dems come out swinging after this convention is over. It's just going to be a sheer blizzard of You're Getting Extrashitty Gilead If You Don't Vote For Us, with Biden way, way in the background looking amiable and Harris plus every 2028 wannabe out there reading Project 2025 to voters. The needle was already moving to that when Golden Toilet got shot, and that only just delayed it a week or so.
Go look at that rally where he got shot. It's half an hour from Pittsburgh and significantly closer to many affluent suburbs, but he had maaaybbbee 600 people in that audience. Everyone but the true believers is sick as shit of him. Vance is not going to bring in anyone new, just money.
posted by outgrown_hobnail at 3:23 PM on July 15 [26 favorites]
JD Vance is one of the few American politicians of any stripe to acknowledge the country’s oncoming demographic apocalypse. And then of course, he gets on board with Trump, who’s going to make it worse by reducing immigration.
Immigration doesn't solve the demographic apocalypse, it kicks the can down the road by 60 years, until all the immigrant's home nations go into below-replacement territory. The demographic collapse is unavoidable. It will cause harm to older generations, but I suspect that allowing it to happen would be a boon for younger generations and the front-end labor force as lower labor supply makes wages rise.
posted by DetriusXii at 3:24 PM on July 15 [10 favorites]
Immigration doesn't solve the demographic apocalypse, it kicks the can down the road by 60 years, until all the immigrant's home nations go into below-replacement territory. The demographic collapse is unavoidable. It will cause harm to older generations, but I suspect that allowing it to happen would be a boon for younger generations and the front-end labor force as lower labor supply makes wages rise.
posted by DetriusXii at 3:24 PM on July 15 [10 favorites]
He only wishes he was an Appalachian "hillbilly." Dude grew up in Middletown, Ohio. That's not even considered to be part of Appalachia, at any time. Just because he spent a few days/weeks in KY each year as a kid...that's not being drenched in Appalachian culture.
Pretty sure all this came out when Hillbilly Elegy was first published.
posted by cooker girl at 3:27 PM on July 15 [28 favorites]
Pretty sure all this came out when Hillbilly Elegy was first published.
posted by cooker girl at 3:27 PM on July 15 [28 favorites]
The demographic collapse is unavoidable.
^^ and that doesn't even take into account climate change, where the slo-mo Jackpot kills off a big majority of the population of those home countries long before they would normally go into below-replacement territory.
posted by outgrown_hobnail at 3:28 PM on July 15 [6 favorites]
^^ and that doesn't even take into account climate change, where the slo-mo Jackpot kills off a big majority of the population of those home countries long before they would normally go into below-replacement territory.
posted by outgrown_hobnail at 3:28 PM on July 15 [6 favorites]
>It will cause harm to older generations
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/graph/?g=1qcZd
real (2017 dollars) per-capita income is up 100% from 40 years ago. We're productive enough to feed, house, educate, clothe, and entertain everyone here regardless if the working age population declines; don't buy their scarcity narrative, it's BS.
posted by torokunai at 3:30 PM on July 15 [26 favorites]
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/graph/?g=1qcZd
real (2017 dollars) per-capita income is up 100% from 40 years ago. We're productive enough to feed, house, educate, clothe, and entertain everyone here regardless if the working age population declines; don't buy their scarcity narrative, it's BS.
posted by torokunai at 3:30 PM on July 15 [26 favorites]
. D. Vance as V.P. is frightening for all the reasons people have laid out - but I also agree that this choice doesn't really help Trump's odds of winning.
An exchange I saw on social media: a friend posted the news of Vance's pick as VP, and someone else responded with, "okay, so he picked up, like, five voters in Ohio with this but that's it."
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 3:32 PM on July 15 [9 favorites]
An exchange I saw on social media: a friend posted the news of Vance's pick as VP, and someone else responded with, "okay, so he picked up, like, five voters in Ohio with this but that's it."
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 3:32 PM on July 15 [9 favorites]
Immigration doesn't solve the demographic apocalypse, it kicks the can down the road by 60 years, until all the immigrant's home nations go into below-replacement territory.
I was under the impression that the people who posit this as a solution intend it to be a consistently implemented one with wave after wave of people coming in from different regions for different reasons. Is this inaccurate?
posted by Selena777 at 3:33 PM on July 15 [1 favorite]
I was under the impression that the people who posit this as a solution intend it to be a consistently implemented one with wave after wave of people coming in from different regions for different reasons. Is this inaccurate?
posted by Selena777 at 3:33 PM on July 15 [1 favorite]
Wait, Vance is quoting Yarvin? Of course he is. Ugh.
Yeah, and Yarvin wasn't reactionary enough for him. Double ugh.
posted by symbioid at 3:33 PM on July 15 [3 favorites]
Yeah, and Yarvin wasn't reactionary enough for him. Double ugh.
posted by symbioid at 3:33 PM on July 15 [3 favorites]
A comment from the WaPo article:
OTOH, I'd bet Vance becomes president within 2 years...after he and the cabinet declare Trump senile and ditch him via the 25th Amendment. I suspect, Trump will seem to be a better deal than the far more intelligent, far better educated, far more disciplined - all of which meaning far more destructive - Vance.
posted by 922257033c4a0f3cecdbd819a46d626999d1af4a at 3:46 PM on July 15 [9 favorites]
OTOH, I'd bet Vance becomes president within 2 years...after he and the cabinet declare Trump senile and ditch him via the 25th Amendment. I suspect, Trump will seem to be a better deal than the far more intelligent, far better educated, far more disciplined - all of which meaning far more destructive - Vance.
posted by 922257033c4a0f3cecdbd819a46d626999d1af4a at 3:46 PM on July 15 [9 favorites]
Pretty sure all this came out when Hillbilly Elegy was first published.
Yeah, there was definitely a backlash that accompanied the book being held up by some pundits as Trump-voter-whispering, a latter-day What's the Matter With Kansas?, and part of that was exposing how Vance definitely played up aspects of his background. And was transparently positioning himself for political ambitions (The Guardian)-
Yeah, there was definitely a backlash that accompanied the book being held up by some pundits as Trump-voter-whispering, a latter-day What's the Matter With Kansas?, and part of that was exposing how Vance definitely played up aspects of his background. And was transparently positioning himself for political ambitions (The Guardian)-
When I ask about Vance’s own political ambitions he hedges, saying he has no burning ambition to run for office but would not rule it out “because maybe down the road I will”.posted by Apocryphon at 3:56 PM on July 15 [15 favorites]
His return to Ohio tells a different story. As well as his nonprofit, Vance is also embarking on a listening tour, attending GOP events in the state, and enlisted the support of Jai Chabria, a former top adviser to the Republican governor, John Kasich. As the Washington Post observed: “Every step that Vance is taking is exactly what a sophisticated person in his position who wanted to run for statewide office would do.”
They also happen to be strikingly similar to steps taken by Obama during his earliest strides into politics. He, too, followed an Ivy League law degree with a foray into nonprofit work – in his case, in Chicago – and a memoir, Dreams of My Father, that wrestled with similar themes of family and racial identity and was published shortly before Obama ran for Illinois state senate in 1996.
When I point out the parallels, Vance shakes his head and demurs. “I definitely don’t see myself as doing that,” he says. “It is in some ways hard for me to imagine myself running for office, because the book was so raw. There are a lot of F-words in it.”
But a few moments later, he adds: “You know, you mention a parallel to President Obama. Maybe he didn’t think that either, right? Maybe opportunities just presented themselves and he went forward with them?”
A couple of days after our conversation, Vance emailed the New York Times with an idea for an op-ed. It was published a few days later under the title: Barack Obama and Me.
It is important to acknowledge the dynamics of the out-migration of regions from the decay of the fossil fuel era. It has been happening for decades.
it's is concerning that the liberals are so slow to pick up their old Keynesian solutions to fix the problems of capitalism, and just let the fascists control the narrative
See also: Louisiana, although we are mostly leaving due to climate change, not lack of employment
the $4 Billion in decommissioning victories against Chevron this year, for example are great for Louisiana drilling jobs. But fascists don't see this reality, because it's just about power, and not economics.
what is hilarious and sad and stupid is that the boomer voters believe the fascists when they claim to be able to bring back Coal and Oil jobs. Geology and economics say otherwise.
What is important is for republicans is, to maintain the non unionized, migratory labor force that maintains the fossil fuel capital of the USA within its southern and midcontinent region. From Mexico to Tennessee, men are driven by policy into a permanently migratory construction labor force. It doesn't matter what they are building, what matters is that the men are away from their families and controllable. That is their vision for the economy--to make us all migrant labor.
think of the men who were incinerated on the Deepwater horizon, that array of rural folks, that is the plan.
And, ironically, this is how the USA will fall to China, by not getting up and ahead on clean energy and water conservation, and soil conservation. Look at Texas on how reliable oil and gas is as infrastructure.
this is how we have already fallen to Saudi Arabia. Praying to the Oil gods inevitably only shackes the USA to Qatar and KSA
But please folks, can we get some journalists on Jeff Landry's labor issues STAT? He hates immigratnts because he makes money on migrant labor. That's the whole immigration issue.
posted by eustatic at 3:56 PM on July 15 [14 favorites]
it's is concerning that the liberals are so slow to pick up their old Keynesian solutions to fix the problems of capitalism, and just let the fascists control the narrative
See also: Louisiana, although we are mostly leaving due to climate change, not lack of employment
the $4 Billion in decommissioning victories against Chevron this year, for example are great for Louisiana drilling jobs. But fascists don't see this reality, because it's just about power, and not economics.
what is hilarious and sad and stupid is that the boomer voters believe the fascists when they claim to be able to bring back Coal and Oil jobs. Geology and economics say otherwise.
What is important is for republicans is, to maintain the non unionized, migratory labor force that maintains the fossil fuel capital of the USA within its southern and midcontinent region. From Mexico to Tennessee, men are driven by policy into a permanently migratory construction labor force. It doesn't matter what they are building, what matters is that the men are away from their families and controllable. That is their vision for the economy--to make us all migrant labor.
think of the men who were incinerated on the Deepwater horizon, that array of rural folks, that is the plan.
And, ironically, this is how the USA will fall to China, by not getting up and ahead on clean energy and water conservation, and soil conservation. Look at Texas on how reliable oil and gas is as infrastructure.
this is how we have already fallen to Saudi Arabia. Praying to the Oil gods inevitably only shackes the USA to Qatar and KSA
But please folks, can we get some journalists on Jeff Landry's labor issues STAT? He hates immigratnts because he makes money on migrant labor. That's the whole immigration issue.
posted by eustatic at 3:56 PM on July 15 [14 favorites]
Dude grew up in Middletown, Ohio. That's not even considered to be part of Appalachia, at any time.
This isn't a defense of Vance or his god awful analysis, but this isn't true. My partner is also from Middletown, and his dad worked in the steel mill in 1970s. At the time, there were palpable tensions between the "Buckeyes" vs. the "Briars." The former were the local born workers, the latter those with family routes in Appalachian Kentucky. So while yes, Middletown is not the heartland of Appalachia, it is connected to it through local migrations, and they were marginalized for decades after they arrived.
posted by coffeecat at 4:05 PM on July 15 [12 favorites]
This isn't a defense of Vance or his god awful analysis, but this isn't true. My partner is also from Middletown, and his dad worked in the steel mill in 1970s. At the time, there were palpable tensions between the "Buckeyes" vs. the "Briars." The former were the local born workers, the latter those with family routes in Appalachian Kentucky. So while yes, Middletown is not the heartland of Appalachia, it is connected to it through local migrations, and they were marginalized for decades after they arrived.
posted by coffeecat at 4:05 PM on July 15 [12 favorites]
he did marry a died-in-the-wool Liberal, San Francisco attorney, Yale graduate, daughter of Indian immigrants.
Maybe he really is a MAGA guy now...I wonder what he'll be tomorrow?
posted by robbyrobs at 4:08 PM on July 15
Maybe he really is a MAGA guy now...I wonder what he'll be tomorrow?
posted by robbyrobs at 4:08 PM on July 15
Y'all, the ABC World News Tonight for 15 July 2024 and it's gauzey profile of Vance should only be available by prescription. 😱😵💫😵
posted by ob1quixote at 4:11 PM on July 15 [2 favorites]
posted by ob1quixote at 4:11 PM on July 15 [2 favorites]
"Biden should drop out" is gonna be the new "Bernie would've won" isn't it?
I'm over it. Biden has said he's not going anywhere and I believe him. You go to war with the army you have, not the army you wish you had. I'll keep my wishes to myself and work like hell for whatever ticket we've got. I'd work like hell for fucking MANCHIN if he were the candidate facing Trump. If people aren't willing to pull the lever for Biden, I hope they enjoy Gilead.
posted by rikschell at 4:16 PM on July 15 [45 favorites]
I'm over it. Biden has said he's not going anywhere and I believe him. You go to war with the army you have, not the army you wish you had. I'll keep my wishes to myself and work like hell for whatever ticket we've got. I'd work like hell for fucking MANCHIN if he were the candidate facing Trump. If people aren't willing to pull the lever for Biden, I hope they enjoy Gilead.
posted by rikschell at 4:16 PM on July 15 [45 favorites]
This is insurance against another assassination attempt. Who now would shoot Trump and elevate this guy to POTUS?
I said exactly this 8 years ago when he chose Pence.
posted by dobbs at 4:19 PM on July 15 [2 favorites]
I said exactly this 8 years ago when he chose Pence.
posted by dobbs at 4:19 PM on July 15 [2 favorites]
I'm not sure if this gets Trump anything or not, really. Way too early to tell, IMO. But my read on this is that this wasn't Trump's pick, but rather his owners'.
Let's see how useful the Useful Idiot is to said owners once all their operatives are in place and Vance is but a heartbeat (or a 25th amendment invocation) away from the presidency, especially since Vance would be far less of a loose cannon. (Though they might be wayyyyyyyy overestimating how much the MAGA faithful would be willing to follow Vance the way they follow Trump, even as the "heir apparent". Or would it not really matter by that point?).
posted by gtrwolf at 4:20 PM on July 15 [2 favorites]
Let's see how useful the Useful Idiot is to said owners once all their operatives are in place and Vance is but a heartbeat (or a 25th amendment invocation) away from the presidency, especially since Vance would be far less of a loose cannon. (Though they might be wayyyyyyyy overestimating how much the MAGA faithful would be willing to follow Vance the way they follow Trump, even as the "heir apparent". Or would it not really matter by that point?).
posted by gtrwolf at 4:20 PM on July 15 [2 favorites]
Vance is everything Trump is not: young, from a state the GOP ticket can realistically win, apparently literate. I hate to say it, but he's a strategically excellent choice. I'd like to see the democratic party make one or two of those at some point, but I think I may be waiting a while for that.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 4:27 PM on July 15 [4 favorites]
posted by kittens for breakfast at 4:27 PM on July 15 [4 favorites]
It's more like Vance deprives the Trump campaign of any number of more advantageous picks, from Haley to Youngkin.
posted by Apocryphon at 4:30 PM on July 15 [1 favorite]
posted by Apocryphon at 4:30 PM on July 15 [1 favorite]
Hard agree on the Middletown angle. Almost half of Ohio is technically in Appalachia, and even more is culturally linked to it. If you consider that the culture of the Ozarks is a direct descendent of Appalachia, it's a much bigger region than coastal people tend to give it credit for. A lot of Yankees get Appalachian culture and Southern culture confused, and politics have made a lot of common cause with both, and with rural people in the Great Plains, Texas, and the West. I will say that growing up in southern Ohio, I definitely learned prejudices against people with Appalachian backgrounds that I had to intentionally unlearn.
posted by rikschell at 4:33 PM on July 15 [9 favorites]
posted by rikschell at 4:33 PM on July 15 [9 favorites]
I was under the impression that the people who posit this as a solution intend it to be a consistently implemented one with wave after wave of people coming in from different regions for different reasons. Is this inaccurate?
Global population is expected to peak mid-century. Permanent population growth and permanent decline are both trivially unsustainable - really the best we can hope for is some manageable ups and downs.
posted by atoxyl at 4:52 PM on July 15 [1 favorite]
Global population is expected to peak mid-century. Permanent population growth and permanent decline are both trivially unsustainable - really the best we can hope for is some manageable ups and downs.
posted by atoxyl at 4:52 PM on July 15 [1 favorite]
Announcing the pick on his bullshit social media site instead of at the convention seems like a missed PR opportunity.
posted by kirkaracha at 5:12 PM on July 15 [2 favorites]
posted by kirkaracha at 5:12 PM on July 15 [2 favorites]
This is insurance against another assassination attempt. Who now would shoot Trump and elevate this guy to POTUS?
I said exactly this 8 years ago when he chose Pence.
I'm old enough to remember when they were saying this is why Bush I chose Quayle. (Talk about folks who look better in retrospect)
posted by gtrwolf at 5:15 PM on July 15 [3 favorites]
I said exactly this 8 years ago when he chose Pence.
I'm old enough to remember when they were saying this is why Bush I chose Quayle. (Talk about folks who look better in retrospect)
posted by gtrwolf at 5:15 PM on July 15 [3 favorites]
Strong move for the guyliner demo, though.
posted by kirkaracha at 5:15 PM on July 15 [7 favorites]
posted by kirkaracha at 5:15 PM on July 15 [7 favorites]
“I don’t know that I can disrespect someone more than J. D. Vance,” — Mitt Romney
posted by kirkaracha at 5:17 PM on July 15 [14 favorites]
posted by kirkaracha at 5:17 PM on July 15 [14 favorites]
Vance's wife didn't only clerk for Roberts and Kavanaugh. She also clerked for Amul Thapar, appointed to district court by George W Bush and then to the 6th Circuit by Trump. Thapar wrote the Clarence Thomas hagiography The People's Justice: Clarence Thomas and the Constitutional Stories that Define Him.
posted by jedicus at 5:24 PM on July 15 [19 favorites]
posted by jedicus at 5:24 PM on July 15 [19 favorites]
rikschell. Agree on the range of Appalachia. I live in a leafy green suburban of Buffalo and Appalachia is about three miles southwest of me...It gets rural real fast. That and the Indian reservation just a bit further make for interesting times. Gas up and get your weed on the Rez.
posted by Czjewel at 5:33 PM on July 15 [2 favorites]
posted by Czjewel at 5:33 PM on July 15 [2 favorites]
Trump seems to really get off on the fawning adulation of people who formerly said negative things about him. I’m not at all surprised that he likes Vance now.
posted by eviemath at 5:59 PM on July 15 [7 favorites]
posted by eviemath at 5:59 PM on July 15 [7 favorites]
Yeah Sauron really got a kick out of his ring-wraiths, too.
posted by notyou at 6:31 PM on July 15 [8 favorites]
posted by notyou at 6:31 PM on July 15 [8 favorites]
If there was any doubt that Charles Koch wasn't still pulling the strings...
Vance's wife didn't only clerk for Roberts and Kavanaugh. She also clerked for Amul Thapar, appointed to district court by George W Bush and then to the 6th Circuit by Trump. Thapar wrote the Clarence Thomas hagiography The People's Justice: Clarence Thomas and the Constitutional Stories that Define Him.
posted by any major dude at 6:32 PM on July 15
Trump lives for the moment when a former critic reluctantly kisses the ring. Every single day he's gonna look over at this guy and chuckle gleefully. The thing that makes me most upset about this is that this is the kind of shit that keeps Trump young. It's not diet or exercise or the love of his family keeping him going, it's just a regular diet of spite and this is like injecting the spite right into the vein.
posted by potrzebie at 6:32 PM on July 15 [21 favorites]
posted by potrzebie at 6:32 PM on July 15 [21 favorites]
Yeah Sauron really got a kick out of his ring-wraiths, too.
Trump lives for the moment when a former critic reluctantly kisses the ring.
The term that Josh Marshall so aptly coined during Trump’s term in office was “dignity wraiths”.
posted by darkstar at 6:36 PM on July 15 [28 favorites]
Trump lives for the moment when a former critic reluctantly kisses the ring.
The term that Josh Marshall so aptly coined during Trump’s term in office was “dignity wraiths”.
posted by darkstar at 6:36 PM on July 15 [28 favorites]
Trump's salivating at 4 years of getting to humiliate Vance at every turn like he did Pence.
Trump didn't get his mob to hang Pence from a noose on January 6, 2021 — but maybe he'll get his revenge on Vance.
Vance is not going to bring in anyone new, just money.
Interesting piece in Wapost today about Trump and cryptocurrency, which he formerly trashed but now has a new perspective on, because the cryptoscrip crooks are donating actual real dollars to pay off his Russian mob debts (if under the table).
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 7:01 PM on July 15 [4 favorites]
Trump didn't get his mob to hang Pence from a noose on January 6, 2021 — but maybe he'll get his revenge on Vance.
Vance is not going to bring in anyone new, just money.
Interesting piece in Wapost today about Trump and cryptocurrency, which he formerly trashed but now has a new perspective on, because the cryptoscrip crooks are donating actual real dollars to pay off his Russian mob debts (if under the table).
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 7:01 PM on July 15 [4 favorites]
Once more, my heartiest “fuck you” to all the soi-disant liberals who first platformed this guy and his goddamned book because they wanted some poor people of their own to sneer at.
posted by non canadian guy at 7:33 PM on July 15 [12 favorites]
posted by non canadian guy at 7:33 PM on July 15 [12 favorites]
^^ I read it! Back when it came out, I was like oh here's someone who grew up there (though in fact it turned out he did not) and might give me insight on how/why their culture is so dysfunctional, and how/why what we might perceive as dysfunction is adaptation. I wanted to STOP sneering at them. But in fact the book was horrible trash and it was really obvious from the get-go that Vance was a superlative asshole who was making money trying to encourage us to sneer at them. What a douche: he deserves to be a Ringwraith.
posted by outgrown_hobnail at 7:38 PM on July 15 [5 favorites]
posted by outgrown_hobnail at 7:38 PM on July 15 [5 favorites]
Y'all, the ABC World News Tonight for 15 July 2024 and it's gauzey profile of Vance should only be available by prescription.
I *am* gonna need a prescription before this is all over
posted by St. Peepsburg at 7:42 PM on July 15 [3 favorites]
I *am* gonna need a prescription before this is all over
posted by St. Peepsburg at 7:42 PM on July 15 [3 favorites]
Tonight's entertainment is a re-listen to the If Books Could Kill podcast episode on Hillbilly Elegy.
posted by neuracnu at 8:39 PM on July 15 [15 favorites]
posted by neuracnu at 8:39 PM on July 15 [15 favorites]
He found possibly the only guy in America more disgusted by poor people than himself. And of course the press is calling it "populism." A died in the wool freak asshole who comes across as slimy and insincere in every interaction with the public. Guarantee his biggest appeal to Trump is that he's also an itinerant ass-kisser. By the end of the second term I'm sure he'll be out of his good graces.
posted by jy4m at 8:50 PM on July 15 [4 favorites]
posted by jy4m at 8:50 PM on July 15 [4 favorites]
“Trump Picks Unlikeable Pile Of Human Butthair As Running Mate, Excellent Choice!,” Evan Hurst, The Wonkette, 15 July 2024
posted by ob1quixote at 8:52 PM on July 15 [12 favorites]
posted by ob1quixote at 8:52 PM on July 15 [12 favorites]
Pence was loyal. He was awful but he was loyal. He just didn't want to do anything where he might be implicated in a crime. If he had a guarantee it would have worked and he'd be fine he would have gone along with it. Vance acts loyal but is absolutely not. If there is the slightest reason to toss Trump to the curb so that Vance can take power he'll do it. Legally or not. Peacefully or not. Not a doubt in my mind. Vance is using Trump. Not the other way around. I really don't think this is going to work out in Trump's favor. Or with him finishing his term.
posted by downtohisturtles at 8:59 PM on July 15 [19 favorites]
posted by downtohisturtles at 8:59 PM on July 15 [19 favorites]
In some other, better organized, more sensible timeline, news organizations (and society in general) recognized the mortal threat that Peter Thiel posed after he bankrolled Hulk Hogan’s suit against Gawker, and Theil was put front and center, until he fucked off to New Zealand on the passport he bought.
Sadly, we live in the dumbest possible timeline, and Thiel’s bought and paid for senator is a candidate for VP to a guy who, as far as medical science can tell, is only kept alive by pure spite. Nothing like having the hand on the leash of a heartbeat away belonging to a guy who believes democracy is a mistake.
posted by Ghidorah at 10:10 PM on July 15 [17 favorites]
Sadly, we live in the dumbest possible timeline, and Thiel’s bought and paid for senator is a candidate for VP to a guy who, as far as medical science can tell, is only kept alive by pure spite. Nothing like having the hand on the leash of a heartbeat away belonging to a guy who believes democracy is a mistake.
posted by Ghidorah at 10:10 PM on July 15 [17 favorites]
The Lincoln Project is way ahead of you.
They don't go far enough. Same with the Biden/Harris one. Simply quoting him misses point. People will shrug it off. Yeah, he insulted Trump, big deal, Trump insults people too.
What you want to do is frame it to show the cynicism. 'JD Vance is a man who realized Trump could be America's Hitler, and decided, "Yeah, I can work with that."'
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 10:16 PM on July 15 [22 favorites]
They don't go far enough. Same with the Biden/Harris one. Simply quoting him misses point. People will shrug it off. Yeah, he insulted Trump, big deal, Trump insults people too.
What you want to do is frame it to show the cynicism. 'JD Vance is a man who realized Trump could be America's Hitler, and decided, "Yeah, I can work with that."'
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 10:16 PM on July 15 [22 favorites]
Announcing the pick on his bullshit social media site instead of at the convention seems like a missed PR opportunity.
Trump knew it'd be a huge story, wherever he announced it, so he used the announcement to get a lot of eyeballs on his bullshit social media site. Never underestimate the greed and tackiness of the man. Any day now I fully expect him to be selling commemorative plates featuring the image of him raising his fist after the failed assassination attempt.
posted by Ursula Hitler at 11:23 PM on July 15 [8 favorites]
Trump knew it'd be a huge story, wherever he announced it, so he used the announcement to get a lot of eyeballs on his bullshit social media site. Never underestimate the greed and tackiness of the man. Any day now I fully expect him to be selling commemorative plates featuring the image of him raising his fist after the failed assassination attempt.
posted by Ursula Hitler at 11:23 PM on July 15 [8 favorites]
There is a much richer vein of anti-Trump rhetoric than I imagined in Vance’s past statements. A lot of it documented in this CNN article can’t be simply waved away by suggesting that he had initially misjudged Trump or whatever.
posted by darkstar at 12:12 AM on July 16 [3 favorites]
posted by darkstar at 12:12 AM on July 16 [3 favorites]
On the upside, when the face-eating leopards eventually turn on him as history shows us they must, their inevitable cries of "Hang Vance!" will have a comfortingly familiar scansion.
posted by flabdablet at 3:31 AM on July 16 [6 favorites]
posted by flabdablet at 3:31 AM on July 16 [6 favorites]
I haven't read Hillbilly Elegy, but wanted to hear it straight from the source, so I read Ross Douthat's interview with JD Vance from May. The Devil wears a suit and a tie and is a smooth talker. One thing that stood out for me was Vance's explanation of why the MAGA crowd views the 2020 election as illegitimate:
So what are the same people doing this year? Here is a (dated, from March) podcast with Michael Podhorzer, one of the heroes of the 2021 article. And here is an article by him from a month ago about the Supreme Court and another about election turnout (closer to addressing Vance's bullshit about illegitimacy) that suggests the more people know about what Trump says he'll do, the more they will votet against him. I did find a surprisingly complete documentation of Trump's preparations for authoritarian rule, but I didn't find a clear overview picture of specific efforts to protect the 2024 election: by ensuring free and fair elections and by getting everyone to understand what Trump plans to do.
posted by brambleboy at 4:00 AM on July 16 [12 favorites]
My actual critique starts with the Molly Ball article in 2021 — that felt like bragging. I put that article in front of the average Trump-fan Republican voter in my hometown, and they say, “That is an illegitimate election.”So I thought, "OK, I'll check out their case" and read Molly Ball's article. Turns out it's about the people -- heroic people in my book -- who saved the election that was under duress from Trump's lies and COVID by ensuring people could and would vote. It's inspirational. This is how you fight.
So what are the same people doing this year? Here is a (dated, from March) podcast with Michael Podhorzer, one of the heroes of the 2021 article. And here is an article by him from a month ago about the Supreme Court and another about election turnout (closer to addressing Vance's bullshit about illegitimacy) that suggests the more people know about what Trump says he'll do, the more they will votet against him. I did find a surprisingly complete documentation of Trump's preparations for authoritarian rule, but I didn't find a clear overview picture of specific efforts to protect the 2024 election: by ensuring free and fair elections and by getting everyone to understand what Trump plans to do.
posted by brambleboy at 4:00 AM on July 16 [12 favorites]
Is it really surprising at this point when some formerly "Never Trump" Republican kisses Trump's ass?
posted by sotonohito at 4:37 AM on July 16 [6 favorites]
posted by sotonohito at 4:37 AM on July 16 [6 favorites]
There is no Republican Party without Trump, so what are they supposed to do? Lose their seats?
posted by rikschell at 4:52 AM on July 16
posted by rikschell at 4:52 AM on July 16
Any day now I fully expect him to be selling commemorative plates featuring the image of him raising his fist after the failed assassination attempt.
This would be a much better picture for a Trump commemorative plate.
posted by mediareport at 4:58 AM on July 16 [1 favorite]
This would be a much better picture for a Trump commemorative plate.
posted by mediareport at 4:58 AM on July 16 [1 favorite]
There are two aspects to the right-wing in play when you talk about Vance.
One aspect is the brainless Trumpism that doesn't really have a well-formed ideology. It's following the leader, cheering for a sports team. Admission to that club is easy, as long as you don't let morality or decency or intellect to get in the way. You just turn off your brain and go with the mob. Or, you pretend--you know it's all bullcrap and kayfabe, but you make an amoral decision to ride that wave to power on your local school board or Republican party committee. Vance will be totally okay with that crowd, nobody cares what you said a few years ago, as long as you're a loyal worker ant today. (Lindsey Graham is an example of this pattern, there are many more.)
But the other aspect has to do with the underlying ideological trends that Vance does carry with him, and the arc of his life that has been informed by those ideas and tendencies. This is the "dark enlightenment" syndrome, the Peter Thiel connection and other associations with Silicon Valley edgelords, escaping and rejecting that "hillbilly" past and going to Yale law school. Rejecting the embarrassing clapboard church Bible-banging of his background and converting to conservative Catholicism--that's a real tell by itself. Vance has a lot more in common with basement-dwelling Internet weirdos who imagine themselves as shiny defenders of "Western" civilization, hanging out in chatrooms to talk about Byzantine emperors and posting "deus vult" memes, than he does with the gunracks and pickups dudes in his abandoned family tree.
I'm willing to wager that Vance has a book or two by Julius Evola on his shelves, somebody should look in the background next time he does an online interview. He's not fighting elites, he's trying to install himself as one. And he's an ideological weirdo, a freak, someone who's not just incompatible with American ideals, but someone who really, honestly, ought to be unacceptable to the Republican base.
Now, a lot of that base won't care. They'll swallow any crap as long as you're chanting the slogan of the week. But it's still an aspect of Vance that ought to be brought out for public examination. In the short term, hammering on this should get a few votes in strategic places that will matter. In the longer term, it ought to be part of a campaign of de-normalization, a fight against the mainstreaming of increasingly bizarre tendencies on the right wing.
(Spoiler: I don't have a lot of confidence in the DNC or Team Biden actually using this in a campaign. They probably think they're still running against Gerald Ford. And the media, of course, is completely hopeless.)
posted by gimonca at 5:22 AM on July 16 [21 favorites]
One aspect is the brainless Trumpism that doesn't really have a well-formed ideology. It's following the leader, cheering for a sports team. Admission to that club is easy, as long as you don't let morality or decency or intellect to get in the way. You just turn off your brain and go with the mob. Or, you pretend--you know it's all bullcrap and kayfabe, but you make an amoral decision to ride that wave to power on your local school board or Republican party committee. Vance will be totally okay with that crowd, nobody cares what you said a few years ago, as long as you're a loyal worker ant today. (Lindsey Graham is an example of this pattern, there are many more.)
But the other aspect has to do with the underlying ideological trends that Vance does carry with him, and the arc of his life that has been informed by those ideas and tendencies. This is the "dark enlightenment" syndrome, the Peter Thiel connection and other associations with Silicon Valley edgelords, escaping and rejecting that "hillbilly" past and going to Yale law school. Rejecting the embarrassing clapboard church Bible-banging of his background and converting to conservative Catholicism--that's a real tell by itself. Vance has a lot more in common with basement-dwelling Internet weirdos who imagine themselves as shiny defenders of "Western" civilization, hanging out in chatrooms to talk about Byzantine emperors and posting "deus vult" memes, than he does with the gunracks and pickups dudes in his abandoned family tree.
I'm willing to wager that Vance has a book or two by Julius Evola on his shelves, somebody should look in the background next time he does an online interview. He's not fighting elites, he's trying to install himself as one. And he's an ideological weirdo, a freak, someone who's not just incompatible with American ideals, but someone who really, honestly, ought to be unacceptable to the Republican base.
Now, a lot of that base won't care. They'll swallow any crap as long as you're chanting the slogan of the week. But it's still an aspect of Vance that ought to be brought out for public examination. In the short term, hammering on this should get a few votes in strategic places that will matter. In the longer term, it ought to be part of a campaign of de-normalization, a fight against the mainstreaming of increasingly bizarre tendencies on the right wing.
(Spoiler: I don't have a lot of confidence in the DNC or Team Biden actually using this in a campaign. They probably think they're still running against Gerald Ford. And the media, of course, is completely hopeless.)
posted by gimonca at 5:22 AM on July 16 [21 favorites]
@opheliamoding -- "Who Goes Nazi?" by Dorothy Thompson all the way in 1941 had J.D. Vance's deal down cold
The saturnine man over there talking with a lovely French emigree is already a Nazi. Mr. C is a brilliant and embittered intellectual. He was a poor white-trash Southern boy, a scholarship student at two universities where he took all the scholastic honors but was never invited to join a fraternity. His brilliant gifts won for him successively government positions, partnership in a prominent law firm, and eventually a highly paid job as a Wall Street adviser. He has always moved among important people and always been socially on the periphery. His colleagues have admired his brains and exploited them, but they have seldom invited him—or his wife—to dinner.posted by penduluum at 5:40 AM on July 16 [50 favorites]
He is a snob, loathing his own snobbery. [...] Even more than he hates the class into which he has insecurely risen, does he hate the people from whom he came. He hates his mother and his father for being his parents. He loathes everything that reminds him of his origins and his humiliations. He is bitterly anti-Semitic because the social insecurity of the Jews reminds him of his own psychological insecurity.
Pity he has utterly erased from his nature, and joy he has never known. He has an ambition, bitter and burning. It is to rise to such an eminence that no one can ever again humiliate him. Not to rule but to be the secret ruler, pulling the strings of puppets created by his brains. Already some of them are talking his language—though they have never met him.
[...] He is the product of a democracy hypocritically preaching social equality and practicing a carelessly brutal snobbery. He is a sensitive, gifted man who has been humiliated into nihilism. He would laugh to see heads roll.
I hope this comment isn't too meta, but I have kind of a question. One of the things about Trump we've said in these threads--a lot--is that if he wins, it's over, he's going to be President forever. But now we have Vance, and people are saying that if Trump wins, Vance will--well, I don't know, exactly, the implication seems to be that he will wrest power from Trump and go on to be President forever.
Obviously those two things are mutually exclusive. You can't both be President forever. That's a path towards tearing your party apart. So I guess I don't understand what people actually think is going to happen. Does the Vance pick invalidate the King Trump fears?
posted by mittens at 5:51 AM on July 16
Obviously those two things are mutually exclusive. You can't both be President forever. That's a path towards tearing your party apart. So I guess I don't understand what people actually think is going to happen. Does the Vance pick invalidate the King Trump fears?
posted by mittens at 5:51 AM on July 16
Vance will play along with Trump as long as he still sees a runway to the Presidency in front of him, but if that opportunity ever starts closing I would expect Trump's health to decline rapidly, perhaps even suddenly.
posted by seanmpuckett at 5:56 AM on July 16 [2 favorites]
posted by seanmpuckett at 5:56 AM on July 16 [2 favorites]
Some pundit types are saying that, in Vance, Trump has picked a successor.
I don't necessarily agree (right now, I'm closer to Jill Filipovic's view that he picked someone to appeal to angry white men), but I find it hard to imagine that either Vance or Trump will ultimately be loyal to the other.
(Also, if Trump loses the election, and does not successfully steal it, Vance instantly becomes Sarah Palin.)
posted by box at 6:05 AM on July 16 [3 favorites]
I don't necessarily agree (right now, I'm closer to Jill Filipovic's view that he picked someone to appeal to angry white men), but I find it hard to imagine that either Vance or Trump will ultimately be loyal to the other.
(Also, if Trump loses the election, and does not successfully steal it, Vance instantly becomes Sarah Palin.)
posted by box at 6:05 AM on July 16 [3 favorites]
I think it probably happened something like this:
"Have you selected a running mate yet, sir?"
"What? I don't need one of those."
"Actually, sir, you do."
"Fine. Whatever. Go get me one."
posted by Faint of Butt at 6:22 AM on July 16 [8 favorites]
"Have you selected a running mate yet, sir?"
"What? I don't need one of those."
"Actually, sir, you do."
"Fine. Whatever. Go get me one."
posted by Faint of Butt at 6:22 AM on July 16 [8 favorites]
If Jamil Jiavani was your bff in college then there's much wrong with you...
posted by Jessica Savitch's Coke Spoon at 6:35 AM on July 16
posted by Jessica Savitch's Coke Spoon at 6:35 AM on July 16
Spoiler: I don't have a lot of confidence in the DNC or Team Biden actually using this in a campaign. They probably think they're still running against Gerald Ford. And the media, of course, is completely hopeless.
The first several minutes of the Lester Holt's interview with Biden consisted of Biden sticking to the message that Trump's fascist bullshit cannot be allowed to be normalized. Who knows if it will continue, but it seems like Biden, at least, is ready to call it like it is in that respect.
posted by wierdo at 6:36 AM on July 16 [20 favorites]
The first several minutes of the Lester Holt's interview with Biden consisted of Biden sticking to the message that Trump's fascist bullshit cannot be allowed to be normalized. Who knows if it will continue, but it seems like Biden, at least, is ready to call it like it is in that respect.
posted by wierdo at 6:36 AM on July 16 [20 favorites]
Donald Trump's Vice President Candidate Claims Britain Is An Islamic State?
posted by valetta at 6:37 AM on July 16 [2 favorites]
posted by valetta at 6:37 AM on July 16 [2 favorites]
You can't both be President forever.
One is twice the age of the other.
posted by paper chromatographologist at 6:43 AM on July 16 [3 favorites]
One is twice the age of the other.
posted by paper chromatographologist at 6:43 AM on July 16 [3 favorites]
“What We All Need to Know About J.D. Vance,” Jessica Wildfire, OK Doomer, 16 July 2024
So, whatever you do, just know the facts. Vance has plans. He's not working for Trump. He's working directly for guys like Thiel and Musk. This isn't an election.posted by ob1quixote at 6:49 AM on July 16 [37 favorites]
It's a hostile takeover.
“J. D. Vance Changes the Subject,” Gabriel Winant, n+1, 01 May 2023
posted by ob1quixote at 6:55 AM on July 16 [3 favorites]
posted by ob1quixote at 6:55 AM on July 16 [3 favorites]
(Also, if Trump loses the election, and does not successfully steal it, Vance instantly becomes Sarah Palin.)
I don't buy that for a second. Palin was... Palin. Vance as running mate is just another calculated step in a
long game, from someone with lots of runway still in front of him, and some serious support behind him. Unless he himself implodes or otherwise screws up during this campaign, he won't be finished if Trump somehow loses.
On preview, ob1quixote gets it.
posted by Artful Codger at 6:57 AM on July 16 [5 favorites]
I don't buy that for a second. Palin was... Palin. Vance as running mate is just another calculated step in a
long game, from someone with lots of runway still in front of him, and some serious support behind him. Unless he himself implodes or otherwise screws up during this campaign, he won't be finished if Trump somehow loses.
On preview, ob1quixote gets it.
posted by Artful Codger at 6:57 AM on July 16 [5 favorites]
"Have you selected a running mate yet, sir?"
"What? I don't need one of those."
"Actually, sir, you do."
"Fine. Whatever. Go get me one."
Nah, I think it's much more basic to Trump's personality than that: Thiel promised him lots and lots of money if he chose Vance.
posted by mediareport at 7:33 AM on July 16 [13 favorites]
"What? I don't need one of those."
"Actually, sir, you do."
"Fine. Whatever. Go get me one."
Nah, I think it's much more basic to Trump's personality than that: Thiel promised him lots and lots of money if he chose Vance.
posted by mediareport at 7:33 AM on July 16 [13 favorites]
As an old Usenet creature, I'm mentally picturing that dominoes-of-increasing-size meme with "contributing to talk.bizarre" at the small end and "unprincipled techno-monarchists prepare to deform the free world" at the other.
posted by delfin at 7:37 AM on July 16 [7 favorites]
posted by delfin at 7:37 AM on July 16 [7 favorites]
Republican convention: best and worst moments (NYT), in which columnists don't remotely agree about whether Vance helps, hurts, or has no effect on Trump's chances.
posted by box at 7:39 AM on July 16
posted by box at 7:39 AM on July 16
The thing about Trump that comes closest to constituting an opportunity, in my mind, is that so far he has not made any attempt to designate a successor. Instead he has relished watching everyone he surrounds himself with getting torn to shreds by his following.
Ever since he popped up, we get introduced to the monsters in his footsteps who are going to be "Trump but competent." And one by one, it becomes clear that the people who love Trump detest them all. Ron DeSantis, Ted Cruz, Stephen Miller, Madison Cawthorn, his own fucking kids, blah blah blah blah blah ... one by one they rise, one by one they get humiliated. Everyone who is bothering to read this thread could probably name six. And the only conclusion that it seems reasonable to draw is that Trump's following doesn't want Trump but competent. They don't want Trump but smart, or Trump but moderate, or Trump but more obviously fascist. They want Trump. Hard stop. Nobody else.
That following has supplanted so much of the Republican party that, if they're not on board with you, you're not going to last long. And they're not on board with anyone.
That's good news for us! Also good news: the buzz on J.D. Vance appears to be that he's repulsive. In a kind of Cruz-y way, anybody who spends an appreciable amount of time with him hates him. The main thing that Trump's following seems to hate about politicians is that they're politicians (Trump remains innocent of this charge, of course — he's not a politician, in their eyes he's not even a celebrity or a rich person, he's A Boss), and Vance is very much a politician. I see no reason to believe, a week ago or today, that Vance will be able to utilize the alchemy Trump has to become his successor. And I see no reason to believe Trump himself will debase himself to actually say out loud, in public, that he wants to hand his following to someone else.
So if all that's true, that Vance doesn't have the juice and Trump doesn't have the willingness to give it to him, then the problem narrows to a needlepoint. This is why they're dismantling voting and trying to delegitimize elections. This is why they have prioritized judicial moves. It's the only direction the logic of power can point: if the Republicans don't want to evaporate as a political movement, they have to (1) get Trump back into office and then (2) end US democracy. I don't even know whether most of them know this, consciously. Like game theory pointing towards mutually assured destruction, it emerges from steps they've been taking since at least the Contract with America.
I'm deeply jaded. I turned 18 in 1999; every national election I've been able to participate in has been explained to me as being the most important election of all time, an existential threat. It's impossible in hindsight not to see that some or a lot of that was exaggeration (or manipulation). Fine, that's politics. The goals of the electorate and the goals of the elected diverge. But as cynical as I am, there's something here that feels like a fulcrum. If we win here, I don't think Trump's movement can ever win again. He'll be dead before they have the chance. The extinction burst might be rough to deal with, but it'll recede. On the other hand, if we lose here, I can't see a way we ever win again. Not in any way that would be recognizable as a win from a 2024 perspective, anyway.
tl;dr the good news is Trump picking Vance doesn't really change anything. The bad news is Trump picking Vance doesn't really change anything.
posted by penduluum at 7:47 AM on July 16 [33 favorites]
Ever since he popped up, we get introduced to the monsters in his footsteps who are going to be "Trump but competent." And one by one, it becomes clear that the people who love Trump detest them all. Ron DeSantis, Ted Cruz, Stephen Miller, Madison Cawthorn, his own fucking kids, blah blah blah blah blah ... one by one they rise, one by one they get humiliated. Everyone who is bothering to read this thread could probably name six. And the only conclusion that it seems reasonable to draw is that Trump's following doesn't want Trump but competent. They don't want Trump but smart, or Trump but moderate, or Trump but more obviously fascist. They want Trump. Hard stop. Nobody else.
That following has supplanted so much of the Republican party that, if they're not on board with you, you're not going to last long. And they're not on board with anyone.
That's good news for us! Also good news: the buzz on J.D. Vance appears to be that he's repulsive. In a kind of Cruz-y way, anybody who spends an appreciable amount of time with him hates him. The main thing that Trump's following seems to hate about politicians is that they're politicians (Trump remains innocent of this charge, of course — he's not a politician, in their eyes he's not even a celebrity or a rich person, he's A Boss), and Vance is very much a politician. I see no reason to believe, a week ago or today, that Vance will be able to utilize the alchemy Trump has to become his successor. And I see no reason to believe Trump himself will debase himself to actually say out loud, in public, that he wants to hand his following to someone else.
So if all that's true, that Vance doesn't have the juice and Trump doesn't have the willingness to give it to him, then the problem narrows to a needlepoint. This is why they're dismantling voting and trying to delegitimize elections. This is why they have prioritized judicial moves. It's the only direction the logic of power can point: if the Republicans don't want to evaporate as a political movement, they have to (1) get Trump back into office and then (2) end US democracy. I don't even know whether most of them know this, consciously. Like game theory pointing towards mutually assured destruction, it emerges from steps they've been taking since at least the Contract with America.
I'm deeply jaded. I turned 18 in 1999; every national election I've been able to participate in has been explained to me as being the most important election of all time, an existential threat. It's impossible in hindsight not to see that some or a lot of that was exaggeration (or manipulation). Fine, that's politics. The goals of the electorate and the goals of the elected diverge. But as cynical as I am, there's something here that feels like a fulcrum. If we win here, I don't think Trump's movement can ever win again. He'll be dead before they have the chance. The extinction burst might be rough to deal with, but it'll recede. On the other hand, if we lose here, I can't see a way we ever win again. Not in any way that would be recognizable as a win from a 2024 perspective, anyway.
tl;dr the good news is Trump picking Vance doesn't really change anything. The bad news is Trump picking Vance doesn't really change anything.
posted by penduluum at 7:47 AM on July 16 [33 favorites]
Mod note: Comment removed. Please "speak for yourself, not others," per the Guidelines and avoid speculation about why Vance's wife married him.
posted by Brandon Blatcher (staff) at 7:53 AM on July 16 [6 favorites]
posted by Brandon Blatcher (staff) at 7:53 AM on July 16 [6 favorites]
“The Meaning of JD Vance,” John Ganz, Unpopular Front, 16 July 2024
posted by ob1quixote at 7:53 AM on July 16 [2 favorites]
posted by ob1quixote at 7:53 AM on July 16 [2 favorites]
Being named running-mate is juice enough. For Vance, Trump is a vehicle, not the final destination.
For a few reasons, Vance is a good strategic choice; not least it's a nod to Trump’s corporate backers that they've been heard.
posted by Artful Codger at 7:58 AM on July 16 [2 favorites]
For a few reasons, Vance is a good strategic choice; not least it's a nod to Trump’s corporate backers that they've been heard.
posted by Artful Codger at 7:58 AM on July 16 [2 favorites]
I am all for very serious and erudite political analysis, but I feel like he isn't going to help Trump because there's something inherently punchable about his face. He's trying to project a tough-guy image, but he doesn't have the square jaw to pull it off. They should have cast a different actor in the role. But maybe that's just me.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 8:06 AM on July 16 [5 favorites]
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 8:06 AM on July 16 [5 favorites]
John Ganz wrote
When the Clock Broke: Con Men, Conspiracists, and How America Cracked Up in the Early 1990s
which is an informative/depressing read
posted by torokunai at 8:12 AM on July 16 [8 favorites]
When the Clock Broke: Con Men, Conspiracists, and How America Cracked Up in the Early 1990s
which is an informative/depressing read
posted by torokunai at 8:12 AM on July 16 [8 favorites]
Liz Cheney Warns JD Vance Will Help Trump ‘Illegally Seize Power’ [Mediaite]
posted by mazola at 8:12 AM on July 16 [14 favorites]
Taking to X in reaction, Cheney wrote: “Vance has pledged he would do what Mike Pence wouldn’t – overturn an election and illegally seize power. He says the president can ignore the rulings of our courts. He would capitulate to Russia and sacrifice the freedom of our allies in Ukraine.”MAGA aside, I hope Liz is saying what some Rs are thinking.
In a further indictment of the Republican Party, she added: “The Trump GOP is no longer the party of Lincoln, Reagan or the Constitution.”
posted by mazola at 8:12 AM on July 16 [14 favorites]
And the only conclusion that it seems reasonable to draw is that Trump's following doesn't want Trump but competent. They don't want Trump but smart, or Trump but moderate, or Trump but more obviously fascist. They want Trump. Hard stop. Nobody else.
The catch is, they don't want anyone but Trump while they have Trump. He is the living symbol of this current authoritarian wave, he has demonstrated the ability to swat challengers aside, and anyone else who begins to rise on that side is viewed by him as a threat and treated as such.
No one will be the actual heir apparent until Trump is physically unable to continue. At the moment that Trump is no longer able to sit in the head chair, his usefulness dwindles dramatically and so many bills will come due at once; he will never openly designate a true successor because that's akin to saying "this is the younger, less addled version that will replace me" and therefore invite that replacement prematurely. His paranoia and vanity will ensure that that won't happen.
But when Trump does leave that seat, THEN the knives will come out and there will be duels over whom will carry that legacy forward. I am kind of hoping that something like the 2012 factions will reemerge, and that fiscal (government is there to make me money), evangelical (government is there to enact God's will) and authoritarian (government is there to let me control others) wings will waste energy and resources battling each other.
posted by delfin at 8:19 AM on July 16 [19 favorites]
The catch is, they don't want anyone but Trump while they have Trump. He is the living symbol of this current authoritarian wave, he has demonstrated the ability to swat challengers aside, and anyone else who begins to rise on that side is viewed by him as a threat and treated as such.
No one will be the actual heir apparent until Trump is physically unable to continue. At the moment that Trump is no longer able to sit in the head chair, his usefulness dwindles dramatically and so many bills will come due at once; he will never openly designate a true successor because that's akin to saying "this is the younger, less addled version that will replace me" and therefore invite that replacement prematurely. His paranoia and vanity will ensure that that won't happen.
But when Trump does leave that seat, THEN the knives will come out and there will be duels over whom will carry that legacy forward. I am kind of hoping that something like the 2012 factions will reemerge, and that fiscal (government is there to make me money), evangelical (government is there to enact God's will) and authoritarian (government is there to let me control others) wings will waste energy and resources battling each other.
posted by delfin at 8:19 AM on July 16 [19 favorites]
No one will be the actual heir apparent
Looking at their guy, it should be obvious that the last thing any MAGA wants to see is actual hair apparent.
posted by flabdablet at 8:28 AM on July 16 [3 favorites]
Looking at their guy, it should be obvious that the last thing any MAGA wants to see is actual hair apparent.
posted by flabdablet at 8:28 AM on July 16 [3 favorites]
The catch is, they don't want anyone but Trump while they have Trump. He is the living symbol of this current authoritarian wave, he has demonstrated the ability to swat challengers aside, and anyone else who begins to rise on that side is viewed by him as a threat and treated as such.
That's the Putin problem too probably not related (ok probably related).
posted by mazola at 8:35 AM on July 16 [6 favorites]
That's the Putin problem too probably not related (ok probably related).
posted by mazola at 8:35 AM on July 16 [6 favorites]
When can we expect Vladimir to invite Donald to Moscow for a private discussion on windows of opportunity?
posted by flabdablet at 8:41 AM on July 16 [4 favorites]
posted by flabdablet at 8:41 AM on July 16 [4 favorites]
Artw: Vance is in many ways the person Trump claims to be. Someone with a working class background who was a Marine, who got a law degree from Yale, who was a venture capitalist.
potrzebie: Trump lives for the moment when a former critic reluctantly kisses the ring.
That's pretty much all I need to know to understand why Trump picked him. Vance isn't a successor - he's the personification of the Republican Party that Trump subjugated, who once reviled him but bent the knee when it became clear that all ambitions had to go through him. It reassures him that he really is a genius, rather than a draft-dodging nepo baby.
When I read this interview between Ross Douthat and Vance, I was struck by how familiar Vance's ideas and language were - we were both studying political science at roughly the same time at Midwestern state schools. Then he went on to Yale Law and Silicon Valley venture capital, and I know that type too: delfin's "unprincipled techno-monarchists" is the perfect phrasing. He just thinks he's smarter and harder-working than the rest of us, he's got the CV to prove it, and he is ready to be our philosopher-king. He's bizarro Pete Buttigieg, and I have a similarly hard time understanding what he really wants in his dark little heart, except maybe to just have the power to fix the society that hurt him as a kid - without all that agonizing democracy, compromise, human rights, etc.
posted by McBearclaw at 8:49 AM on July 16 [12 favorites]
potrzebie: Trump lives for the moment when a former critic reluctantly kisses the ring.
That's pretty much all I need to know to understand why Trump picked him. Vance isn't a successor - he's the personification of the Republican Party that Trump subjugated, who once reviled him but bent the knee when it became clear that all ambitions had to go through him. It reassures him that he really is a genius, rather than a draft-dodging nepo baby.
When I read this interview between Ross Douthat and Vance, I was struck by how familiar Vance's ideas and language were - we were both studying political science at roughly the same time at Midwestern state schools. Then he went on to Yale Law and Silicon Valley venture capital, and I know that type too: delfin's "unprincipled techno-monarchists" is the perfect phrasing. He just thinks he's smarter and harder-working than the rest of us, he's got the CV to prove it, and he is ready to be our philosopher-king. He's bizarro Pete Buttigieg, and I have a similarly hard time understanding what he really wants in his dark little heart, except maybe to just have the power to fix the society that hurt him as a kid - without all that agonizing democracy, compromise, human rights, etc.
posted by McBearclaw at 8:49 AM on July 16 [12 favorites]
dammit "Mirror-Universe Buttigieg" was my line.
posted by torokunai at 8:51 AM on July 16 [6 favorites]
posted by torokunai at 8:51 AM on July 16 [6 favorites]
Washington Post gift links
Fact-checking Day 1 of the 2024 Republican National Convention
5 takeaways from Night 1 of the Republican National Convention
posted by kirkaracha at 8:52 AM on July 16 [2 favorites]
Fact-checking Day 1 of the 2024 Republican National Convention
5 takeaways from Night 1 of the Republican National Convention
posted by kirkaracha at 8:52 AM on July 16 [2 favorites]
Lawyer Alex Aronson (co-founder of Court Accountability) posted a well-sourced thread about J.D. Vance's views, statements and associations. Chilling evidence of Vance's nefarious aspirations and intentions.
posted by JDC8 at 8:53 AM on July 16 [4 favorites]
posted by JDC8 at 8:53 AM on July 16 [4 favorites]
JD Vance is not bending over backwards. He's obviously bending over forwards.
posted by Wylie Kyoto at 8:55 AM on July 16 [3 favorites]
posted by Wylie Kyoto at 8:55 AM on July 16 [3 favorites]
Dude is the representative of far right VC money. It’s a takeover.
posted by Artw at 8:57 AM on July 16 [9 favorites]
posted by Artw at 8:57 AM on July 16 [9 favorites]
welp there is a reason he wears a beard, folks. he looks infinitely more punchable without one.
posted by supermedusa at 8:58 AM on July 16 [2 favorites]
posted by supermedusa at 8:58 AM on July 16 [2 favorites]
he looks infinitely more punchable without one.
Without one he looks like an adult Augustus Gloop.
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 9:16 AM on July 16 [3 favorites]
Without one he looks like an adult Augustus Gloop.
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 9:16 AM on July 16 [3 favorites]
As a former Marine, and now sporting that millenial beard, I'm certain he's getting a pass on the punchability factor from GOP voters.
posted by Artful Codger at 9:23 AM on July 16
posted by Artful Codger at 9:23 AM on July 16
Vance is the guy we've been warning was coming. Crueler and smarter than Trump. He's not being put forward to be VP. He's being positioned for the driver's seat.
posted by Wetterschneider at 9:36 AM on July 16 [2 favorites]
posted by Wetterschneider at 9:36 AM on July 16 [2 favorites]
Donald Trump's Vice President Candidate Claims Britain Is An Islamic State?
Oh, the Republicans have been doing this for years. Back in 2015 a Fox News pundit asserted that Birmingham (where I lived at the time, and still work regularly) was "totally Muslim". (According to the last census it is 30% Muslim, as compared with 34% Christian, 3% Sikh and 2% Hindu, most of the balance declaring no religious affiliation.)
posted by Major Clanger at 9:48 AM on July 16 [6 favorites]
Oh, the Republicans have been doing this for years. Back in 2015 a Fox News pundit asserted that Birmingham (where I lived at the time, and still work regularly) was "totally Muslim". (According to the last census it is 30% Muslim, as compared with 34% Christian, 3% Sikh and 2% Hindu, most of the balance declaring no religious affiliation.)
posted by Major Clanger at 9:48 AM on July 16 [6 favorites]
404 Media: AI Maxers Love JD Vance
People who support the rapid development of AI, specifically the self-designated “effective accelerationists” (e/acc) or “techno-optimists,” have latched on to two positions they share with Vance: the idea that big tech companies are promoting government regulation of AI that benefit them as incumbents, and the idea that those same companies and the government are trying to imbue AI with leftist ideology.posted by audi alteram partem at 9:49 AM on July 16 [3 favorites]
How on earth did he win his Senate seat with claims like "Dems Want to Turn Immigrants Transgender"?
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 9:56 AM on July 16
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 9:56 AM on July 16
First he ran against Josh Mandel, who says the stupidest shit imaginable, by saying even stupider shit. Then he ran against Tim Ryan.
posted by Artw at 10:01 AM on July 16 [1 favorite]
posted by Artw at 10:01 AM on July 16 [1 favorite]
> millenial
So if the polling is to be believed/remain so, it looks like Gen X is going to be skipped as President. Figures.
posted by torokunai at 10:05 AM on July 16 [18 favorites]
So if the polling is to be believed/remain so, it looks like Gen X is going to be skipped as President. Figures.
posted by torokunai at 10:05 AM on July 16 [18 favorites]
“Trump Picked JD Vance Because Junior And Eric Begged,” Evan Hurst, The Wonkette, 16 July 2024
posted by ob1quixote at 10:57 AM on July 16 [2 favorites]
posted by ob1quixote at 10:57 AM on July 16 [2 favorites]
Stop pretending you know how this will end (Derek Thompson, The Atlantic)
posted by box at 11:45 AM on July 16 [11 favorites]
posted by box at 11:45 AM on July 16 [11 favorites]
In private speech, J.D. Vance said the “devil is real” and praised Alex Jones as a truth-teller (ProPublica)
posted by box at 12:05 PM on July 16 [7 favorites]
posted by box at 12:05 PM on July 16 [7 favorites]
“AI Maxers Love JD Vance,” Emanuel Maiberg, 404 Media, 16 July 2024
posted by ob1quixote at 12:11 PM on July 16
posted by ob1quixote at 12:11 PM on July 16
That is what is known as the “singularity”, it’s when all people who fucking suck converge into a single blob of grey goo.
posted by Artw at 12:16 PM on July 16 [16 favorites]
posted by Artw at 12:16 PM on July 16 [16 favorites]
Box, thank you for that article.
posted by bunderful at 12:43 PM on July 16 [2 favorites]
posted by bunderful at 12:43 PM on July 16 [2 favorites]
In private speech, J.D. Vance said the “devil is real” and praised Alex Jones as a truth-teller (ProPublica)
posted by mazola at 12:53 PM on July 16 [9 favorites]
“If you listen to Rachel Maddow every night, the basic worldview that you have is that MAGA grandmas who have family dinners on Sunday and bake apple pies for their family are about to start a violent insurrection against this country,” Vance said. “But if you listen to Alex Jones every day, you would believe that a transnational financial elite controls things in our country, that they hate our society, and oh, by the way, a lot of them are probably sex perverts too.”An exercise for Vance: where would you place your boss on that continuum?
posted by mazola at 12:53 PM on July 16 [9 favorites]
I’m sure there were many grandmas that baked strudel and loved Hitler, too, back in the day.
posted by darkstar at 12:56 PM on July 16 [21 favorites]
posted by darkstar at 12:56 PM on July 16 [21 favorites]
An exercise for Vance: where would you place your boss on that continuum?
Another question for Vance - what if BOTH those views are wrong?
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 1:02 PM on July 16 [8 favorites]
Another question for Vance - what if BOTH those views are wrong?
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 1:02 PM on July 16 [8 favorites]
The Thompson column from the Atlantic is interesting, and he's right that the concern over the net effect of the attempt, by itself, may be overblown.. but dude, context! Put it together with everything that's currently happening, and the fact that there's a level of polarization now that was not in any of his examples.
Is it an insurmountable blow; bow down now, why even have an election? NO! But ffs it seems like there's no fight left in the Biden campaign.
posted by Artful Codger at 1:16 PM on July 16
Is it an insurmountable blow; bow down now, why even have an election? NO! But ffs it seems like there's no fight left in the Biden campaign.
posted by Artful Codger at 1:16 PM on July 16
Yeah, "stop pretending you know what's going to happen" and "it's likely that not very much is going to happen" are such wildly different statements that it seems intellectually dishonest to make one your title and the other your thesis.
posted by penduluum at 1:42 PM on July 16 [4 favorites]
posted by penduluum at 1:42 PM on July 16 [4 favorites]
I suspect that AI Maxers are going to be disappointed about how much power their precious is actually going to deliver.
My guess is that we are going to hit a wall on AI's capabilities before much longer, which is not just due to a lack of computing power, and that the sentient intelligence threshold is going to prove a lot harder to cross than many think it will.
Beware unconstrained extrapolations, linear or exponential, from short term data sets. The real world does not work like that.
••••••
Returning to the theme of this thread, the initial response to the choice of Vance for VP indicates that it is not going down well with the core MAGAts. Could yet prove to be Trump's big mistake.
posted by Pouteria at 2:49 PM on July 16 [7 favorites]
My guess is that we are going to hit a wall on AI's capabilities before much longer, which is not just due to a lack of computing power, and that the sentient intelligence threshold is going to prove a lot harder to cross than many think it will.
Beware unconstrained extrapolations, linear or exponential, from short term data sets. The real world does not work like that.
••••••
Returning to the theme of this thread, the initial response to the choice of Vance for VP indicates that it is not going down well with the core MAGAts. Could yet prove to be Trump's big mistake.
posted by Pouteria at 2:49 PM on July 16 [7 favorites]
I suspect that AI Maxers are going to be disappointed about how much power their precious is actually going to deliver
Ehh, they’re just fancy fascists with a bit of sci-fi wankery tacked on, they’ll get their fascism and probably a bunch of free cash funneled to them for bullshit purposes that’ll just evaporate.
Ultimately they’ll probably find living in a fascist regime unsatisfactory as it’s a setup that sucks for pretty much everyone in it, even if they end up relatively near the top of the heap. Hopefully they’ll all knife each other for crumbs.
posted by Artw at 2:53 PM on July 16 [6 favorites]
Ehh, they’re just fancy fascists with a bit of sci-fi wankery tacked on, they’ll get their fascism and probably a bunch of free cash funneled to them for bullshit purposes that’ll just evaporate.
Ultimately they’ll probably find living in a fascist regime unsatisfactory as it’s a setup that sucks for pretty much everyone in it, even if they end up relatively near the top of the heap. Hopefully they’ll all knife each other for crumbs.
posted by Artw at 2:53 PM on July 16 [6 favorites]
“We are effectively run in the country, via the Democrats, via our corporate oligarchs, by a bunch of childless cat ladies who are miserable at their own lives and the choices that they've made, and so they want to make the rest of the country miserable, too. And it's just a basic fact.”
— J.D. Vance
posted by kirkaracha at 4:36 PM on July 16 [7 favorites]
— J.D. Vance
posted by kirkaracha at 4:36 PM on July 16 [7 favorites]
I suspect that AI Maxers are going to be disappointed about how much power their precious is actually going to deliver.
My guess is that we are going to hit a wall on AI's capabilities before much longer, which is not just due to a lack of computing power, and that the sentient intelligence threshold is going to prove a lot harder to cross than many think it will.
My own take on this is that the real problem for AI for a while is going to prove to be financial. There is an absolute shitload of money being spent by companies on AI right now. It’s the hot thing in tech and everyone is looking at it as the next tech revolution. Now (and this is where the “I could always be wrong” disclaimer comes in) it looks like we have the makings of a market bubble with AI at the moment. Once the realization hits that the ROI on all this investment may not be what they expected, *pop*. That, combined with commercial real estate debt (there’s a lot of concern about that right now) and the lingering consumer effects of inflation may make for a nasty recession in the not-too-distant future. A silver lining is that there’s a ton of room to drop interest rates if needed. But… I’m not an economist, I’m just someone who looks at the world and then has an opinion.
That cat ladies quote from Vance… holy shit that’s crazy.
posted by azpenguin at 4:51 PM on July 16 [12 favorites]
My guess is that we are going to hit a wall on AI's capabilities before much longer, which is not just due to a lack of computing power, and that the sentient intelligence threshold is going to prove a lot harder to cross than many think it will.
My own take on this is that the real problem for AI for a while is going to prove to be financial. There is an absolute shitload of money being spent by companies on AI right now. It’s the hot thing in tech and everyone is looking at it as the next tech revolution. Now (and this is where the “I could always be wrong” disclaimer comes in) it looks like we have the makings of a market bubble with AI at the moment. Once the realization hits that the ROI on all this investment may not be what they expected, *pop*. That, combined with commercial real estate debt (there’s a lot of concern about that right now) and the lingering consumer effects of inflation may make for a nasty recession in the not-too-distant future. A silver lining is that there’s a ton of room to drop interest rates if needed. But… I’m not an economist, I’m just someone who looks at the world and then has an opinion.
That cat ladies quote from Vance… holy shit that’s crazy.
posted by azpenguin at 4:51 PM on July 16 [12 favorites]
Childless cat lady here. Delighted to hear my plot is working. Please assume I am cackling spitefully and doing the Montgomery Burns wiggly-finger-steeple gesture.
posted by armeowda at 4:53 PM on July 16 [38 favorites]
posted by armeowda at 4:53 PM on July 16 [38 favorites]
It all ties in, doesn't it. Ladies, you won't be childless for long! That way we're HELPING YOU have a stake in your country.
It fucking BURNS, the gall of these people
posted by tiny frying pan at 4:55 PM on July 16 [11 favorites]
It fucking BURNS, the gall of these people
posted by tiny frying pan at 4:55 PM on July 16 [11 favorites]
Childless cat lady here. Delighted to hear my plot is working. Please assume I am cackling spitefully and doing the Montgomery Burns wiggly-finger-steeple gesture.
And after reading that I’m cackling at your username. Well done.
posted by azpenguin at 4:56 PM on July 16 [8 favorites]
And after reading that I’m cackling at your username. Well done.
posted by azpenguin at 4:56 PM on July 16 [8 favorites]
You know, I hadn't heard the "cat ladies" comment and I went to look it up. And it gave me an idea: I have some relatives who lean right, and I happen to be the only one of my generation of cousins/nieces/nephews/kids who is single and childless. I'm the oldest among that age group, too, so I'm the one that turned all my aunts and uncles into aunts and uncles.
I just posted a clip of Vance's "cat ladies" interview with Tucker Carlson over on Facebook, where they could see it, and added the caption that "just something to think about - when Vance says that childless cat ladies probably don't think they have a stake in this country...you DO know he's talking about me, right? Just pointing that out."
....It's probably easy for them to write off "liberal elites" or "childless cat ladies" if there's not anyone to remind them that "hang on, one of those childless cat ladies is my niece." We'll see if that moves any needles.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 5:20 PM on July 16 [13 favorites]
I just posted a clip of Vance's "cat ladies" interview with Tucker Carlson over on Facebook, where they could see it, and added the caption that "just something to think about - when Vance says that childless cat ladies probably don't think they have a stake in this country...you DO know he's talking about me, right? Just pointing that out."
....It's probably easy for them to write off "liberal elites" or "childless cat ladies" if there's not anyone to remind them that "hang on, one of those childless cat ladies is my niece." We'll see if that moves any needles.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 5:20 PM on July 16 [13 favorites]
My/my husband’s childlessness and our bleeding-heart liberal values are the only reasons my uncle didn’t die homeless 14 years ago. His needle only moves between Trump and Kennedy. Like most conservatives, he’s oblivious to the charity he’s benefited from.
At least he’s nice to the cats.
More to the point, I’m counting on a lot of women to vote their own interests, but to lie to the conservative men in their lives about it. Anyone who’s ever lived with a logic-averse, gun-worshipping narcissist knows: sometimes they just can’t handle the truth.
posted by armeowda at 6:10 PM on July 16 [15 favorites]
At least he’s nice to the cats.
More to the point, I’m counting on a lot of women to vote their own interests, but to lie to the conservative men in their lives about it. Anyone who’s ever lived with a logic-averse, gun-worshipping narcissist knows: sometimes they just can’t handle the truth.
posted by armeowda at 6:10 PM on July 16 [15 favorites]
I can't see the choice of Vance giving women any reason to go back to or stay with Trump. If anything Vance's views on abortion, and no doubt other issues important to women, are worse than Trump's, including that Vance actually believes them.
posted by Pouteria at 6:45 PM on July 16 [13 favorites]
posted by Pouteria at 6:45 PM on July 16 [13 favorites]
Last month Vance introduced a bill [4516] which seeks to "ensure equal protection of the law, to prevent racism in the Federal Government, and for other purposes," and if the title didn't give it away, that the co-sponsors are this crew does.
posted by Iris Gambol at 8:43 PM on July 16 [5 favorites]
posted by Iris Gambol at 8:43 PM on July 16 [5 favorites]
'new right' corporate libertarianism allies with synthetic technocracy (to bury any budding digital democracy)?
Trump's second-term agenda: deportations, trade wars, NATO rethink - "Close allies are also vetting scores of potential hires who could be counted on to implement his policies, and Trump has suggested they must adhere to his belief that the 2020 election was fraudulent."
How would mass deportation of migrants under Trump actually work? - "Two former officials who handled immigration issues for then-President Donald Trump say that a 'whole of government' approach costing billions would be needed to mount the 'largest deportation effort in American history' promised in the Republican convention platform if Trump is re-elected."
What Trump doesn't want you to know about Project 2025 - "All told, of the 38 people responsible for writing and editing Project 2025, 31 were appointed or nominated to positions in the Trump administration and transition. In other words, while Trump claims he has 'nothing to do' with the people who created Project 2025, over 81% had formal roles in his first administration."
posted by kliuless at 10:51 PM on July 16 [13 favorites]
- Trump VP pick supports Big Tech antitrust crackdown
- Andreessen Horowitz founders plan to donate to pro-Trump super PAC
- Musk plans to commit around $45 million a month to new pro-Trump super PAC, WSJ reports
- The billionaire who fueled JD Vance's rapid rise to the Trump VP spot — analysis
Trump's second-term agenda: deportations, trade wars, NATO rethink - "Close allies are also vetting scores of potential hires who could be counted on to implement his policies, and Trump has suggested they must adhere to his belief that the 2020 election was fraudulent."
How would mass deportation of migrants under Trump actually work? - "Two former officials who handled immigration issues for then-President Donald Trump say that a 'whole of government' approach costing billions would be needed to mount the 'largest deportation effort in American history' promised in the Republican convention platform if Trump is re-elected."
What Trump doesn't want you to know about Project 2025 - "All told, of the 38 people responsible for writing and editing Project 2025, 31 were appointed or nominated to positions in the Trump administration and transition. In other words, while Trump claims he has 'nothing to do' with the people who created Project 2025, over 81% had formal roles in his first administration."
posted by kliuless at 10:51 PM on July 16 [13 favorites]
In other words, while Trump claims he has 'nothing to do' with the people who created Project 2025, over 81% had formal roles in his first administration.
I’m not sure if it was in this or another thread, but I earlier posted a video in which Trump is praising the Heritage Foundation plan (though he doesn’t call it Project 2025 in the video).
So his awareness of the plan is substantiated by more than just his association with its drafters. He’s on video acknowledging and endorsing it.
posted by darkstar at 10:57 PM on July 16 [7 favorites]
I’m not sure if it was in this or another thread, but I earlier posted a video in which Trump is praising the Heritage Foundation plan (though he doesn’t call it Project 2025 in the video).
So his awareness of the plan is substantiated by more than just his association with its drafters. He’s on video acknowledging and endorsing it.
posted by darkstar at 10:57 PM on July 16 [7 favorites]
It's silly that anyone thinks "well Trump didn't explicitly endorse, BY NAME, Project 2025..."
Any sentence that begins with "Trump said ..." should instead be "Trump, lying as he always does, said..." and finished with "...which could mean anything people kissing his ass want it to mean, because that's all he cares about".
It's been said that the only saving grace of his first term is that he thought he could just yell a decree from atop a mountain and it gets done, but he's too stupid to know otherwise. He'll do whatever his sycophants convince him he came up with and praise him for it. So, this time they spent the last 4 years drafting up a detailed list of exactly what they want him to do, but - since he doesn't (maybe can't?) read - they'll just tell him that he said these things first and he'll sign on the dotted line. I mean, when 81% of his first-term folks wrote it, they'll just say "oh boss! boss! this is what you said back then! we wrote it down! YOU SO SMART!".
I'm convinced that's why the post-MAGA Right leadership (I'm not gonna delve into the psyche of proletariat MAGA) praises him like a religious figure. They know this idiot will lie about the color of the sky while you're both looking at it, and will never ever apologize for even the slightest misstep or misspeak, so they can run roughshod over the country as long as they keep the idiot happy by patting his head and telling him he's just the smartest little good boy with the biggest hands and glorious hair.
Blindfold the guy so he couldn't read a teleprompter, and I'd put 100,000-to-1 odds for every policy point he outlined on his website that he could recite within even 60% accuracy. I'd walk away a millionaire for the cost of a decent meal.
Shout it from the rooftops : Trump cares about literally ONE thing, and it's Trump. Lucky for him, Hard R folks also don't give a shit about anyone but themselves, so his grift on them has been working out BIGLY.
posted by revmitcz at 12:18 AM on July 17 [10 favorites]
Any sentence that begins with "Trump said ..." should instead be "Trump, lying as he always does, said..." and finished with "...which could mean anything people kissing his ass want it to mean, because that's all he cares about".
It's been said that the only saving grace of his first term is that he thought he could just yell a decree from atop a mountain and it gets done, but he's too stupid to know otherwise. He'll do whatever his sycophants convince him he came up with and praise him for it. So, this time they spent the last 4 years drafting up a detailed list of exactly what they want him to do, but - since he doesn't (maybe can't?) read - they'll just tell him that he said these things first and he'll sign on the dotted line. I mean, when 81% of his first-term folks wrote it, they'll just say "oh boss! boss! this is what you said back then! we wrote it down! YOU SO SMART!".
I'm convinced that's why the post-MAGA Right leadership (I'm not gonna delve into the psyche of proletariat MAGA) praises him like a religious figure. They know this idiot will lie about the color of the sky while you're both looking at it, and will never ever apologize for even the slightest misstep or misspeak, so they can run roughshod over the country as long as they keep the idiot happy by patting his head and telling him he's just the smartest little good boy with the biggest hands and glorious hair.
Blindfold the guy so he couldn't read a teleprompter, and I'd put 100,000-to-1 odds for every policy point he outlined on his website that he could recite within even 60% accuracy. I'd walk away a millionaire for the cost of a decent meal.
Shout it from the rooftops : Trump cares about literally ONE thing, and it's Trump. Lucky for him, Hard R folks also don't give a shit about anyone but themselves, so his grift on them has been working out BIGLY.
posted by revmitcz at 12:18 AM on July 17 [10 favorites]
“The phony populism of JD Vance,” Noah Berlatsky, Public Notice, 17 July 2024
posted by ob1quixote at 7:15 AM on July 17 [3 favorites]
posted by ob1quixote at 7:15 AM on July 17 [3 favorites]
How would mass deportation of migrants Jews under Trump Hitler actually work?
It is simultaneously ludicrous and terrifying that mainstream, business-oriented media (CNBC!) is writing straight-faced articles discussing the political and logistical requirements of forcibly deporting millions of people without meaningfully questioning the legality, morality, or wisdom of the idea.
"One of the [former Trump] officials said the effort would require a 'trigger puller'".
Somehow I don't think they meant it entirely metaphorically.
"[former Border Patrol agent] Blair said an effort of the size proposed would require heavy involvement from local law enforcement".
One might even call it "collaboration". This was exactly the approach of the Nazis, who established the Deutscher Gemeindetag ("Council of Municipalities") in 1933 to coordinate persecution of Jews at the local level. The Council "regularly sanctioned measures that went beyond what Berlin itself had authorized, thus pressing forward the steady destruction of German-Jewish life." The so-called "constitutional sheriffs" (who make up ~10% of all sheriffs in the US!) would be thrilled to be given a free hand to punish and deport undocumented immigrants.
posted by jedicus at 9:16 AM on July 17 [9 favorites]
It is simultaneously ludicrous and terrifying that mainstream, business-oriented media (CNBC!) is writing straight-faced articles discussing the political and logistical requirements of forcibly deporting millions of people without meaningfully questioning the legality, morality, or wisdom of the idea.
"One of the [former Trump] officials said the effort would require a 'trigger puller'".
Somehow I don't think they meant it entirely metaphorically.
"[former Border Patrol agent] Blair said an effort of the size proposed would require heavy involvement from local law enforcement".
One might even call it "collaboration". This was exactly the approach of the Nazis, who established the Deutscher Gemeindetag ("Council of Municipalities") in 1933 to coordinate persecution of Jews at the local level. The Council "regularly sanctioned measures that went beyond what Berlin itself had authorized, thus pressing forward the steady destruction of German-Jewish life." The so-called "constitutional sheriffs" (who make up ~10% of all sheriffs in the US!) would be thrilled to be given a free hand to punish and deport undocumented immigrants.
posted by jedicus at 9:16 AM on July 17 [9 favorites]
kliuless I suspect that when you cut through the bullshit the Project 2025 people have in mind something similar to the horrifyingly named "Operation Wetb@ck" under President Eisenhower.
"Operation Wetb@ck" was quite simple: the pigs grabbed anyone who looked kinda hispanic and "processed" them, said processing focused on speed rather than accuracy and many US citizens were deported along with the undocumented migrants who were the ostensible targets.
Using a combination of air and land transport those people were taken to Mexico and sometimes handed over to any Mexican authority they could find nearby, and sometimes just shoved out into the desert to die if they couldn't hitchike to safety.
Exact figures are impossible to find because the whole thing was a racist endeavor and did its best not to find any errors. Over 1.5 million people were deported, we know that a minimum of 80 died due to being dumped in the desert, and the number of US citizens who were deported is unknown but non-zero.
Naturally it did nothing at all to curb illegal immigration nor the hiring of illegal immigrants by farms who relied exclusivel on illegal labor by people they kept in near slavery conditions.
But it looked impressive for the racists and that's what mattered.
posted by sotonohito at 9:41 AM on July 17 [15 favorites]
"Operation Wetb@ck" was quite simple: the pigs grabbed anyone who looked kinda hispanic and "processed" them, said processing focused on speed rather than accuracy and many US citizens were deported along with the undocumented migrants who were the ostensible targets.
Using a combination of air and land transport those people were taken to Mexico and sometimes handed over to any Mexican authority they could find nearby, and sometimes just shoved out into the desert to die if they couldn't hitchike to safety.
Exact figures are impossible to find because the whole thing was a racist endeavor and did its best not to find any errors. Over 1.5 million people were deported, we know that a minimum of 80 died due to being dumped in the desert, and the number of US citizens who were deported is unknown but non-zero.
Naturally it did nothing at all to curb illegal immigration nor the hiring of illegal immigrants by farms who relied exclusivel on illegal labor by people they kept in near slavery conditions.
But it looked impressive for the racists and that's what mattered.
posted by sotonohito at 9:41 AM on July 17 [15 favorites]
LGBTQ flags and quinoa: the liberal VA enclave where J.D. Vance lives (WaPo)
posted by box at 11:20 AM on July 17 [7 favorites]
“He railed against the liberal elites and then he picked the wealthy liberal neighborhood outside D.C. to bring up his kids.”The truth about J.D. Vance (Dame magazine)
posted by box at 11:20 AM on July 17 [7 favorites]
Robert Evans on Twitter: 'Worth noting how empty the arena really is'
posted by box at 1:04 PM on July 17 [7 favorites]
posted by box at 1:04 PM on July 17 [7 favorites]
Robert Evans on Twitter: 'Worth noting how empty the arena really is'
There didn't seem to be that big of a crowd at his rally in Butler, Pennsylvania, considering it's about an hour outside Pittsburgh.
posted by kirkaracha at 2:08 PM on July 17
There didn't seem to be that big of a crowd at his rally in Butler, Pennsylvania, considering it's about an hour outside Pittsburgh.
posted by kirkaracha at 2:08 PM on July 17
One of the things that is giving me hope is the persistently small crowds Trump has been getting for some time now. That is not the sign of a fired up base.
posted by Pouteria at 2:14 PM on July 17 [13 favorites]
posted by Pouteria at 2:14 PM on July 17 [13 favorites]
Curious how many of the people in those crowds are unique to that event also. I know he's got people that go from rally to rally like some evil version of Deadheads.
posted by downtohisturtles at 2:42 PM on July 17 [5 favorites]
posted by downtohisturtles at 2:42 PM on July 17 [5 favorites]
Even if his rallies are smaller, it doesn't mean anything. Remember all the MAGA hats screaming that Biden clearly stole the election because he didn't have rallies? Let's not be like them.
posted by sotonohito at 2:59 PM on July 17 [2 favorites]
posted by sotonohito at 2:59 PM on July 17 [2 favorites]
Even if his rallies are smaller, it doesn't mean anything. Remember all the MAGA hats screaming that Biden clearly stole the election because he didn't have rallies?
IIRC, that was because Biden was trying to prevent his campaign being a vector for Covid.
posted by Pouteria at 3:17 PM on July 17 [2 favorites]
IIRC, that was because Biden was trying to prevent his campaign being a vector for Covid.
posted by Pouteria at 3:17 PM on July 17 [2 favorites]
> (Also, if Trump loses the election, and does not successfully steal it, Vance instantly becomes Sarah Palin.)
We've many past VPs like that, but really this depends upon whether Vance develops his own appeal to Trump's base, likely no but who knows. Anyways..
Republicans have much higher turnover of political "talent" than Democrats, because Republicans can afford to replace politicians by younger more idealistic or insane ones, while Democrats risk electing real lefties whenever they choose younger candidates.
Anyways..
Republican pesidents have become steadily worse my entire life, but almost since Eisenhower even: Richard Nixon is tricky to compare to Gerald Ford. George Bush v1 stayed fixated upon oil-scale corruption, so he prevented much of the smaller scale corruption under Ronald Reagan.
Trump leading and being 78 makes President Vance likely. Yet regardless, Republicans shall find someone worse than Trump next time, no matter whether Trump wins or loses this year. lol
posted by jeffburdges at 5:26 PM on July 17 [1 favorite]
We've many past VPs like that, but really this depends upon whether Vance develops his own appeal to Trump's base, likely no but who knows. Anyways..
Republicans have much higher turnover of political "talent" than Democrats, because Republicans can afford to replace politicians by younger more idealistic or insane ones, while Democrats risk electing real lefties whenever they choose younger candidates.
Anyways..
Republican pesidents have become steadily worse my entire life, but almost since Eisenhower even: Richard Nixon is tricky to compare to Gerald Ford. George Bush v1 stayed fixated upon oil-scale corruption, so he prevented much of the smaller scale corruption under Ronald Reagan.
Trump leading and being 78 makes President Vance likely. Yet regardless, Republicans shall find someone worse than Trump next time, no matter whether Trump wins or loses this year. lol
posted by jeffburdges at 5:26 PM on July 17 [1 favorite]
An eight-minute TikTok video that puts JD Vance in context with Peter Thiel and Elon Musk. The book referenced in this commentary is The End of Reality by Jonathan Taplin.
Vance keeps getting worse and worse the more I discover about him.
posted by JDC8 at 12:02 AM on July 18 [9 favorites]
Vance keeps getting worse and worse the more I discover about him.
posted by JDC8 at 12:02 AM on July 18 [9 favorites]
“‘Keep Their Skirt Down,’” Jeff Sharlet and Armita Mirkarimi, Scenes from a Slow Civil War, 18 July 2024
“This Land is Mein Land ,” John Ganz, Unpopular Front, 18 July 2024
posted by ob1quixote at 12:44 PM on July 18 [3 favorites]
“This Land is Mein Land ,” John Ganz, Unpopular Front, 18 July 2024
posted by ob1quixote at 12:44 PM on July 18 [3 favorites]
“How Powerful Is The Vice President?” [29:42]—Leeja Miller, 18 July 2024
posted by ob1quixote at 1:18 PM on July 18
posted by ob1quixote at 1:18 PM on July 18
Was that the worst convention speech of all time? (Jill Filipovic)
posted by box at 5:32 AM on July 19 [3 favorites]
posted by box at 5:32 AM on July 19 [3 favorites]
A Changed Man? [cartoon by David Rowe; via @AnnemarieBridy | Mastodon]
posted by mazola at 2:38 PM on July 19 [2 favorites]
posted by mazola at 2:38 PM on July 19 [2 favorites]
I'm of the belief that a little says a lot. By little, I don't mean insignificant, I mean brief.
When Vance said that Trump might be America's Hitler,
#1. He was immature. He was in his thirties at the time.
#2. He says that was before he got to know Trump better. In other words, he calls people Hitler before getting to know them.
#3. He changed after getting to know Trump. Maybe he'll change back after getting to know Trump better.
#4. After all, he's immature. Still in his thirties.
#5. He probably doesn't know Biden well. Maybe that's why he doesn't like him.
#6. How many more snap judgments equal to calling someone Hitler does he make?
#7. And by the way, what were the qualities in Trump that led him to the original judgment?
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 5:57 PM on July 19 [2 favorites]
When Vance said that Trump might be America's Hitler,
#1. He was immature. He was in his thirties at the time.
#2. He says that was before he got to know Trump better. In other words, he calls people Hitler before getting to know them.
#3. He changed after getting to know Trump. Maybe he'll change back after getting to know Trump better.
#4. After all, he's immature. Still in his thirties.
#5. He probably doesn't know Biden well. Maybe that's why he doesn't like him.
#6. How many more snap judgments equal to calling someone Hitler does he make?
#7. And by the way, what were the qualities in Trump that led him to the original judgment?
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 5:57 PM on July 19 [2 favorites]
His 1930s…
posted by Artw at 6:38 PM on July 19 [2 favorites]
posted by Artw at 6:38 PM on July 19 [2 favorites]
“Elon Musk and The RISE of Tech Bro Fascists”—The Kavernacle, 20 July 2024
posted by ob1quixote at 8:08 PM on July 20 [1 favorite]
posted by ob1quixote at 8:08 PM on July 20 [1 favorite]
“The Zeal of a Convert,” Don Moynihan, Can We Still Govern?, 19 July 2024
posted by ob1quixote at 8:43 AM on July 21
posted by ob1quixote at 8:43 AM on July 21
The tech billionaires backing Trump. Welcome to the broligarchy.
posted by adamvasco at 8:53 AM on July 21 [1 favorite]
posted by adamvasco at 8:53 AM on July 21 [1 favorite]
"We want to promote the types of virtues that exist in Kyle Rittenhouse."--Vance in 2021
posted by box at 9:02 AM on July 21 [1 favorite]
posted by box at 9:02 AM on July 21 [1 favorite]
The tech billionaires backing Trump.
I have to admit that Silicon Valley's apparent embrace of Trump still confounds me. A couple of eccentrics (Theil, Musk) granted... but Andreesen and others too? I had always regarded the "digital revolution" as being led by idealists who wanted to empower and improve society, as well as making themselves a shitload of money.
So, at this point, are these tech "leaders" simply just chasing the bigger shitload of money they'll make in Trump World? Or is there also a worldview or a philosophy involved, where they think that the Democrats and friends, globalists, Eurocrats, etc are taking the world in the wrong direction? Is there a logical argument for wanting to foster an oligarchy? Anything to MAGA other than white male anger and resentful feels?
The last couple of links have helped me a bit. Still looking for a better understanding of what's happening politically in the US and why. What is the MAGA end goal?
posted by Artful Codger at 10:34 AM on July 21
I have to admit that Silicon Valley's apparent embrace of Trump still confounds me. A couple of eccentrics (Theil, Musk) granted... but Andreesen and others too? I had always regarded the "digital revolution" as being led by idealists who wanted to empower and improve society, as well as making themselves a shitload of money.
So, at this point, are these tech "leaders" simply just chasing the bigger shitload of money they'll make in Trump World? Or is there also a worldview or a philosophy involved, where they think that the Democrats and friends, globalists, Eurocrats, etc are taking the world in the wrong direction? Is there a logical argument for wanting to foster an oligarchy? Anything to MAGA other than white male anger and resentful feels?
The last couple of links have helped me a bit. Still looking for a better understanding of what's happening politically in the US and why. What is the MAGA end goal?
posted by Artful Codger at 10:34 AM on July 21
I had always regarded the "digital revolution" as being led by idealists who wanted to empower and improve society, as well as making themselves a shitload of money.
Being a tech worker I've never thought of them as idealists, I've seen their work up close and personal. They're all greedheads first and foremost and they love the concept of disruption and see it as inherently good.
Also many of them are fundamentally extremely pro-hierarchy, see themselves as natures pick for aristocracy due to their amazing intellect and money making skill, and often view the rest of the population through a Randian lens that paints most of humanity as worthless parasites who would starve in the dark if it wasn't for the beneficence of the techbro class.
Check out the excellent book Neoreaction, a Basalisk for a more through examination of the dark enlightenment bullshit that's running rampant in Silicon Valley. Despite being published in 2017 it's still timely, some of the slang and identifiers used by the people who believe in it has changed (I'm pretty sure "dark enlightenment" fell out of use a few years back, for example) but the rest is still spot on.
posted by sotonohito at 12:08 PM on July 21 [12 favorites]
Being a tech worker I've never thought of them as idealists, I've seen their work up close and personal. They're all greedheads first and foremost and they love the concept of disruption and see it as inherently good.
Also many of them are fundamentally extremely pro-hierarchy, see themselves as natures pick for aristocracy due to their amazing intellect and money making skill, and often view the rest of the population through a Randian lens that paints most of humanity as worthless parasites who would starve in the dark if it wasn't for the beneficence of the techbro class.
Check out the excellent book Neoreaction, a Basalisk for a more through examination of the dark enlightenment bullshit that's running rampant in Silicon Valley. Despite being published in 2017 it's still timely, some of the slang and identifiers used by the people who believe in it has changed (I'm pretty sure "dark enlightenment" fell out of use a few years back, for example) but the rest is still spot on.
posted by sotonohito at 12:08 PM on July 21 [12 favorites]
Apparently inquiries were made recent as to if the publisher wanted an update in the light of recent crypto/AI bro nonsense and they said no… I think this latest news means we need one now more that ever.
posted by Artw at 12:57 PM on July 21
posted by Artw at 12:57 PM on July 21
The Enigma of Peter Thiel: There Is No Enigma — He's a Fascist
posted by Artw at 3:04 PM on July 22 [4 favorites]
posted by Artw at 3:04 PM on July 22 [4 favorites]
Where J.D. Vance Gets His Weird, Terrifying Techno-Authoritarian Ideas (more on Curtis Yarvin, from The New Republic)
Only a monarchist truly committed to his bit would respond to the current situation by proposing vice presidential candidate Hunter Biden (Yarvin's blog).
posted by clawsoon at 4:21 AM on July 23 [1 favorite]
Only a monarchist truly committed to his bit would respond to the current situation by proposing vice presidential candidate Hunter Biden (Yarvin's blog).
posted by clawsoon at 4:21 AM on July 23 [1 favorite]
In the 3+ decades I've been aware of Yarvin (we both posted on talk.bizarre back in the day), he's always been a performative boot-licking asshole, the ultimate toadie, happy delighted even to reinforce the the worst beliefs of people with more money/power than him so he can ride their coattails. The Grima Wormtongue of our era, only even more insecure. There is nothing inside him but a howling void, and his essence is a puling child desperate for affirmation, eager to receive whatever applause the worst of humanity deign to give, and he'll espouse and reinforce any view that gets him more attention, the more absurd, the better. Especially if it gets him invited to parties with drugs and blowjobs.
posted by seanmpuckett at 4:40 AM on July 23 [3 favorites]
posted by seanmpuckett at 4:40 AM on July 23 [3 favorites]
Is there a logical argument for wanting to foster an oligarchy?
What's wrong with "I want to be an oligarch and I don't want anybody to stop me"?
posted by flabdablet at 6:07 AM on July 23
What's wrong with "I want to be an oligarch and I don't want anybody to stop me"?
posted by flabdablet at 6:07 AM on July 23
The biggest legacy of Yarvin's talk.bizarre tenure was, of course, his fabled scorefile.
The early nineties were the calm before the storm for Usenet, back when it was more about discussion than spam and binaries. Eternal September loomed upon the horizon, but long before that, online communities like t.b maintained a thick protective moat of snark to try to ward off signal:noise deficiencies. Reading t.b with a scored threaded newsreader program was a common tactic; by awarding specific posters, topics, post headers or keywords positive or negative points, you could sort the group with a few keystrokes so that your desired cream and/or scum rose unimpeded to the top.
Yarvin regularly published and updated his own scorefile, encouraging others to use it as well. A 30 indicated general acceptance, 20 (my own peak) was a pat on the head with room for improvement, and so on down into into-the-volcano-you-go territory. At the time, it was seen as something of a reasonably useful service on his part, helping to identify posters of note and worth amidst the howling void (with an open admission that these were strictly his own opinions and, if one disagreed, they were encouraged to make their own scorefile). But knowing what I know about him now... it kind of brings a chill, thinking of his imagining himself as that monarch atop the newsfroup. You may pass. You there, you must correct your ways. You are of no consequence. You, over there, go jump into an active volcano, you fucking cave newt.
If you had asked me back then if the ideas of a t.b regular would someday contribute to hazards threatening life, liberty and happiness around the globe... well, I would've cracked some jokes about their Scorched Earth Party and X Industries and laughed it off. But, deep down, in retrospect... it's hard to be TOO surprised.
posted by delfin at 5:11 PM on July 23 [5 favorites]
The early nineties were the calm before the storm for Usenet, back when it was more about discussion than spam and binaries. Eternal September loomed upon the horizon, but long before that, online communities like t.b maintained a thick protective moat of snark to try to ward off signal:noise deficiencies. Reading t.b with a scored threaded newsreader program was a common tactic; by awarding specific posters, topics, post headers or keywords positive or negative points, you could sort the group with a few keystrokes so that your desired cream and/or scum rose unimpeded to the top.
Yarvin regularly published and updated his own scorefile, encouraging others to use it as well. A 30 indicated general acceptance, 20 (my own peak) was a pat on the head with room for improvement, and so on down into into-the-volcano-you-go territory. At the time, it was seen as something of a reasonably useful service on his part, helping to identify posters of note and worth amidst the howling void (with an open admission that these were strictly his own opinions and, if one disagreed, they were encouraged to make their own scorefile). But knowing what I know about him now... it kind of brings a chill, thinking of his imagining himself as that monarch atop the newsfroup. You may pass. You there, you must correct your ways. You are of no consequence. You, over there, go jump into an active volcano, you fucking cave newt.
If you had asked me back then if the ideas of a t.b regular would someday contribute to hazards threatening life, liberty and happiness around the globe... well, I would've cracked some jokes about their Scorched Earth Party and X Industries and laughed it off. But, deep down, in retrospect... it's hard to be TOO surprised.
posted by delfin at 5:11 PM on July 23 [5 favorites]
Best headline for a J.D. Vance story: JD Vance is the Toxic Byproduct of America’s Obsession with Bootstrap Narratives.
posted by zardoz at 7:15 PM on July 23 [2 favorites]
posted by zardoz at 7:15 PM on July 23 [2 favorites]
There is apparently a hashtag on Twitter right now called something like "He's not from here", which is filled with people from Appalachia posting memes joking about Vance not being from the poor hardscrabble origins he claims. It's filled with things like:
"JD Vance doesn't know how to snap and string beans."
"He likes unsweetened tea."
"He thinks 'bluegrass' is something the DARE officer warned him about."
"His Country Crock buckets are full of margarine."
And a chain of things:
"He washes his cast iron skillet."
"In the dishwasher, after soaking it."
"And he soaks in Dawn, not Great Value dish soap."
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 4:25 AM on July 24 [4 favorites]
"JD Vance doesn't know how to snap and string beans."
"He likes unsweetened tea."
"He thinks 'bluegrass' is something the DARE officer warned him about."
"His Country Crock buckets are full of margarine."
And a chain of things:
"He washes his cast iron skillet."
"In the dishwasher, after soaking it."
"And he soaks in Dawn, not Great Value dish soap."
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 4:25 AM on July 24 [4 favorites]
He’ll always be “alleged couchfucker JD Vance” to me. To repurpose a fakedansavage quote: While it's true Trump VP pick JD Vance didn't have sex with an inside-out latex glove shoved between two couch cushions, millions of hard-working, tax-paying Americans believe JD Vance had sex with an inside-out latex glove shoved between two couch cushions and our voices must be heard.
posted by Orange Dinosaur Slide at 5:58 AM on July 24 [1 favorite]
posted by Orange Dinosaur Slide at 5:58 AM on July 24 [1 favorite]
Teamsters president Sean O’Brien headlined the RNC’s opening night and praised two of the party’s leading snake-oil salesmen: vice presidential candidate J. D. Vance and Missouri senator Josh Hawley. The party of billionaires couldn’t be happier
posted by jeffburdges at 10:19 AM on July 24 [2 favorites]
posted by jeffburdges at 10:19 AM on July 24 [2 favorites]
He's heterosectional.
posted by kirkaracha at 11:46 AM on July 24 [3 favorites]
posted by kirkaracha at 11:46 AM on July 24 [3 favorites]
Wow, that's a really sharp article, jeffburdges, thanks. I posted the link and some quotes in the Kamala thread.
posted by mediareport at 12:08 PM on July 24
posted by mediareport at 12:08 PM on July 24
Veep Stakes: Will Vance be Sacrificed? [Timothy Snyder | Substack]
Trump has been played by unreliable people, which could be uncomfortable for Vance. And Vance must understand that the Harris candidacy alters his own situation.posted by mazola at 12:23 PM on July 24 [1 favorite]
Instead of coasting to victory with Trump and waiting for him to die, Vance now must contemplate what it would mean to lose alongside Trump in November -- in an election angry Republicans have been trained to believe would be a landslide. Trump cannot blame the broligarchs or Putin, since he cannot admit that he needed the money and support of others. That leaves Vance as the scapegoat.
VANCE, DO A STARSCREAM.
posted by Artw at 12:39 PM on July 24 [3 favorites]
posted by Artw at 12:39 PM on July 24 [3 favorites]
Donald Trump: Project 2025? I never even met her.
JD Vance: I couldn't have touched that couch, I was too busy writing the forward to a book about Project 2025 by the Heritage Foundation's president.
posted by LostInUbe at 4:38 PM on July 24 [4 favorites]
JD Vance: I couldn't have touched that couch, I was too busy writing the forward to a book about Project 2025 by the Heritage Foundation's president.
posted by LostInUbe at 4:38 PM on July 24 [4 favorites]
I've often felt disappointed by jacobin.com, mediareport, usually because they'll push physically impossible economic growth stories, but they do seem solid once ignore everything that really matters, like planetary boundaries, enviroment, ecology, population, etc, and only discuss major political parties & their ideologies. ;)
posted by jeffburdges at 4:44 PM on July 24
posted by jeffburdges at 4:44 PM on July 24
Yeah, lots of folks have had serious issues with some Jacobin stuff; I probably have in the past, too. I pretty much judge article by article these days rather than by site, with some authors like Judd Legum at Popular.info and David Sirota at LeverNews (and formerly Jacobin) on my "worth looking at regularly" list. Alex Press is usually sharp on labor stuff and finds good sources, as in that piece you linked, so thanks again.
posted by mediareport at 6:28 PM on July 24
posted by mediareport at 6:28 PM on July 24
Nothing in his political career
Became him like the leaving it
posted by kirkaracha at 7:22 PM on July 24
Became him like the leaving it
posted by kirkaracha at 7:22 PM on July 24
Another article about J.D. Vance and the Damning Project 2025 Book Foreword
Some o those quotes are... yeesh. Tell us what you really think, man.
posted by ishmael at 10:47 PM on July 24 [1 favorite]
Some o those quotes are... yeesh. Tell us what you really think, man.
posted by ishmael at 10:47 PM on July 24 [1 favorite]
Dustin Guastella wrote A Return to Gompers too, mediareport.
Appears Guastella writing represents this overall focus upon political party strategy. I've mostly felt annoyed by say Matt Huber who throws a political straetegy lens over enviromental concerns, but deeply missunderstands the underlying ecological problems.
posted by jeffburdges at 4:29 AM on July 25 [1 favorite]
Appears Guastella writing represents this overall focus upon political party strategy. I've mostly felt annoyed by say Matt Huber who throws a political straetegy lens over enviromental concerns, but deeply missunderstands the underlying ecological problems.
posted by jeffburdges at 4:29 AM on July 25 [1 favorite]
Before J.D. Vance was Trump's VP pick, he was a blogger (Jezebel)
“Tomorrow I get an official tour from the outgoing public affairs people, and I’m hoping to hit a movie stand we affectionately refer to as the ‘Hajji DVDs’. Basically, these Iraqi dudes pirate movies and sell them here the same day they come out in theaters in the US, at a cost of $2.50 apiece, other than that I’m going to continue adjusting and hopefully I’ll get to work Monday.”posted by box at 6:00 AM on July 25
This headline is currently winning the internet.
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 7:01 AM on July 25 [1 favorite]
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 7:01 AM on July 25 [1 favorite]
Still lots of denials out there but “JD Vance” now autocompletes to “JD Vance couch”.
posted by Artw at 7:16 AM on July 25 [5 favorites]
posted by Artw at 7:16 AM on July 25 [5 favorites]
It may be important for posterity to note the AP has now pulled its article debunking the "JD Vance had sex with a couch" claim:
https://apnews.com/article/fact-check-jd-vance-sex-couch-038130326229
posted by mediareport at 7:28 AM on July 25 [5 favorites]
https://apnews.com/article/fact-check-jd-vance-sex-couch-038130326229
posted by mediareport at 7:28 AM on July 25 [5 favorites]
🎶 Aber beklecker nicht das sofa, sofa! 🎶
posted by snwod at 7:40 AM on July 25 [2 favorites]
posted by snwod at 7:40 AM on July 25 [2 favorites]
When I get that feeling
I need sectional healing
posted by kirkaracha at 9:08 AM on July 25 [13 favorites]
I need sectional healing
posted by kirkaracha at 9:08 AM on July 25 [13 favorites]
Orange County Choppers meme checks in on the couch.
posted by Artw at 4:37 PM on July 25 [1 favorite]
posted by Artw at 4:37 PM on July 25 [1 favorite]
Fucking furniture is on-brand for this ticket. Remember when Trump humped a chair in the 2016 debates?
posted by kirkaracha at 4:54 PM on July 25
posted by kirkaracha at 4:54 PM on July 25
At this point, he either has to ignore it completely or face it head on. And if he does address it, he has to be careful about how he words it. If he tries to Bill Clinton it and says "I did not have sexual relations with that couch" it will only unleash a storm of people bringing up other couches and pieces of furniture that he could have been intimate with.
And at the core of it is the fact that everyone on both side of aisle find it completely believable that he might have done what was said and there's no way to fix that. I mean, he could lean into it and get that coveted Republican fans of Big Mouth's Jay Bilzerian endorsement but it might not swing the election like one would think.
posted by LostInUbe at 6:19 PM on July 25 [3 favorites]
And at the core of it is the fact that everyone on both side of aisle find it completely believable that he might have done what was said and there's no way to fix that. I mean, he could lean into it and get that coveted Republican fans of Big Mouth's Jay Bilzerian endorsement but it might not swing the election like one would think.
posted by LostInUbe at 6:19 PM on July 25 [3 favorites]
No matter what else you’ve done in your life, you fuck one couch, you’re Couchfucker Vance.
posted by seanmpuckett at 6:35 PM on July 25 [3 favorites]
posted by seanmpuckett at 6:35 PM on July 25 [3 favorites]
.. the couch, the Project 2025 forward, the Venmo, etc.... this is great energy. Exactly the stuff people need to be reminded of. So great to see the GOP ticket on the back foot as the reinvigorated Dem ticket surges. More! More!
posted by Artful Codger at 7:11 PM on July 25 [2 favorites]
posted by Artful Codger at 7:11 PM on July 25 [2 favorites]
How PayPal Founder Peter Thiel Boosted J.D. Vance's Political Career ("America's Newspaper" USA Today, July 17, 2024)
How JD Vance’s path to being Trump’s VP pick wound through Silicon Valley (The Guardian, July 19, 2024) Yale Law School graduate found allies in tech billionaires including Peter Thiel who rallied privately for him.
Vance worked for Thiel's Mithril Capital in Silicon Valley for a couple of years; in Dec. 2017, he left SF for Revolution LLC, a D.C.-based venture capital firm. In 2020, he received financial backing from Thiel to co-found the venture firm Narya Capital in Ohio. In 2021, Thiel & Vance both invested in Rumble, the alt-right/right-wing social-media platform founded in 2013, through Narya. "In the aftermath of the Jan. 6 attack on the U.S. Capitol, social media companies cut the far-right’s access to their platforms. [...] By 2022, Rumble became one of the leading social media news platforms on the right, according to the Pew Research Center. More than three-quarters of people who got news from the site leaned Republican." Rumble's cloud services business hosts Truth Social.
Thiel, a "self-described Libertarian" and "longtime Republican donor who has spent more than $49 million on campaigns since 2000," was Vance's biggest backer in the 2022 Senate bid; during the campaign, "Vance offered top donors to his campaign an invitation to a small group dinner with him and Thiel."
(In 2022, Thiel was also funding Rep. Harriet Hageman, who unseated Liz Cheney, "and unsuccessful House candidate Joe Kent in Washington, who spread the racist and antisemitic Great Replacement theory on the campaign trail".)
posted by Iris Gambol at 11:42 PM on July 25 [1 favorite]
How JD Vance’s path to being Trump’s VP pick wound through Silicon Valley (The Guardian, July 19, 2024) Yale Law School graduate found allies in tech billionaires including Peter Thiel who rallied privately for him.
Vance worked for Thiel's Mithril Capital in Silicon Valley for a couple of years; in Dec. 2017, he left SF for Revolution LLC, a D.C.-based venture capital firm. In 2020, he received financial backing from Thiel to co-found the venture firm Narya Capital in Ohio. In 2021, Thiel & Vance both invested in Rumble, the alt-right/right-wing social-media platform founded in 2013, through Narya. "In the aftermath of the Jan. 6 attack on the U.S. Capitol, social media companies cut the far-right’s access to their platforms. [...] By 2022, Rumble became one of the leading social media news platforms on the right, according to the Pew Research Center. More than three-quarters of people who got news from the site leaned Republican." Rumble's cloud services business hosts Truth Social.
Thiel, a "self-described Libertarian" and "longtime Republican donor who has spent more than $49 million on campaigns since 2000," was Vance's biggest backer in the 2022 Senate bid; during the campaign, "Vance offered top donors to his campaign an invitation to a small group dinner with him and Thiel."
(In 2022, Thiel was also funding Rep. Harriet Hageman, who unseated Liz Cheney, "and unsuccessful House candidate Joe Kent in Washington, who spread the racist and antisemitic Great Replacement theory on the campaign trail".)
posted by Iris Gambol at 11:42 PM on July 25 [1 favorite]
The new thing is he has a dolphin fetish. This is absolutely true.
posted by Artw at 6:44 AM on July 26
posted by Artw at 6:44 AM on July 26
The new thing is he has a dolphin fetish.
*giggles uncontrollably*
Years ago - I don't even remember exactly when, it was sometime in the late 1990s - I overheard a couple work colleagues discussing politics, and one of them said, "so basically, the Republicans are eating their young." That memory pops back into my head at times like this.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 6:57 AM on July 26
*giggles uncontrollably*
Years ago - I don't even remember exactly when, it was sometime in the late 1990s - I overheard a couple work colleagues discussing politics, and one of them said, "so basically, the Republicans are eating their young." That memory pops back into my head at times like this.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 6:57 AM on July 26
I think about the couch thing, then I read the above line about a dolphin fetish... -cringe-
* * *
Much more needs to be made public about the head of Project 2025.
posted by Artful Codger at 7:07 AM on July 26 [2 favorites]
* * *
Much more needs to be made public about the head of Project 2025.
posted by Artful Codger at 7:07 AM on July 26 [2 favorites]
There are lots and lots of reasons why we shouldn’t allow JD Vance anywhere near the seat of power, but it seems that one of them is for the benefit of the seat itself. [@SecureOwl | Mastodon]
This whole Vance/couch thing is so stupid and juvenile I'm beginning to think it was started by TFG's campaign itself to scuttle the pick and enable a re-do.
posted by mazola at 8:28 AM on July 26 [3 favorites]
This whole Vance/couch thing is so stupid and juvenile I'm beginning to think it was started by TFG's campaign itself to scuttle the pick and enable a re-do.
posted by mazola at 8:28 AM on July 26 [3 favorites]
"Democrats say it's racist to believe, well they say it's racist to do anything. I had a Diet Mountain Dew yesterday, and one today, I'm sure they're gonna call that racist too."
Diet Mountain Dew?
posted by box at 9:21 AM on July 26 [1 favorite]
Diet Mountain Dew?
posted by box at 9:21 AM on July 26 [1 favorite]
"Before Going MAGA, J.D. Vance Reportedly Brought Baked Goods to His Trans Friend"
posted by box at 9:33 AM on July 26
posted by box at 9:33 AM on July 26
Thanks for that link Artful Codger.
These fuckers really play a long game, and they are very good at it. I thought the dominionists were bad but this lot are total evil.
Not only banning abortion but contraception as well.
The only joy I get is that they all believe in hell and that's where they are off to.
posted by adamvasco at 11:01 AM on July 26 [1 favorite]
These fuckers really play a long game, and they are very good at it. I thought the dominionists were bad but this lot are total evil.
Not only banning abortion but contraception as well.
The only joy I get is that they all believe in hell and that's where they are off to.
posted by adamvasco at 11:01 AM on July 26 [1 favorite]
Couchfucker! Do you need assistance?
posted by kirkaracha at 11:07 AM on July 26 [2 favorites]
posted by kirkaracha at 11:07 AM on July 26 [2 favorites]
We'd classier approaches in the past, like santorum now meaning "the frothy mixture of lube and fecal matter that is sometimes the byproduct of anal sex."
JD or Vance could not means pillow humping anything inanimate that's not actually a pillow maybe?
posted by jeffburdges at 2:05 PM on July 26 [2 favorites]
JD or Vance could not means pillow humping anything inanimate that's not actually a pillow maybe?
posted by jeffburdges at 2:05 PM on July 26 [2 favorites]
Vancing: a copulatory rubbing motion against an inanimate object, or against the body of another where the act is more of an imposition than a pleasure to the recipient. See also: frotteurism.
posted by Artful Codger at 2:38 PM on July 26 [4 favorites]
posted by Artful Codger at 2:38 PM on July 26 [4 favorites]
don't anyone show this to j d, he won't be able to handle it
posted by pyramid termite at 4:16 PM on July 26 [1 favorite]
posted by pyramid termite at 4:16 PM on July 26 [1 favorite]
Much more needs to be made public about the head of Project 2025.
People should read that link. These are fascists, make no mistake about it.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 4:24 PM on July 26 [3 favorites]
People should read that link. These are fascists, make no mistake about it.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 4:24 PM on July 26 [3 favorites]
Seen on twitter: this guy is the most normal person the republicans have nominated for vice president this century
And it's one of those "workout" photos of Paul Ryan.
posted by LostInUbe at 6:13 PM on July 26 [2 favorites]
And it's one of those "workout" photos of Paul Ryan.
posted by LostInUbe at 6:13 PM on July 26 [2 favorites]
If you're over the couchfucking thing - there's now a meme popping up here and there encouraging people to send their used kitty litter to Vance's various Senate offices.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 6:11 AM on July 27
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 6:11 AM on July 27
After Vance was nominated, I thought it was a clever pick that would appeal to the techbros and the right-wing cognocenti.
But now, I have to eat my words, and I'm Enjoying Every Bite.
posted by Artful Codger at 7:59 AM on July 27
But now, I have to eat my words, and I'm Enjoying Every Bite.
posted by Artful Codger at 7:59 AM on July 27
With all the GOP donations being slushfunded into paying Trump's debts to Russia and lawyers, I wonder how much of Vance's nomination is about tapping into rich veins of VC and Silicon Valley cash. Whether Trump wins or loses the general election, maybe he'll keep the bill collectors off his back for a little longer. How broke is he?
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 8:29 AM on July 27 [2 favorites]
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 8:29 AM on July 27 [2 favorites]
It’s honestly never occurred to me that there might be any reason other than to get access to Thielbucks.
posted by Artw at 7:05 AM on July 28 [2 favorites]
posted by Artw at 7:05 AM on July 28 [2 favorites]
That, and apparently his sons pushed him to pick Vance:
With the clock ticking to the Republican National Convention last week, Donald Trump met privately to discuss his running mate search with two of his closest advisers: his sons. The conversation quickly turned tense when the former president indicated that he was leaning toward Doug Burgum, until recently the largely unknown governor of North Dakota — but someone whose low-maintenance, no-drama personality would never threaten to outshine Trump.
That’s when Donald Trump Jr. and Eric Trump chimed in.
“Don Jr. and Eric went bats--- crazy: ‘Why would you do something so stupid? He offers us nothing,’” a longtime Republican operative familiar with the discussion told NBC News. “They were basically all like ‘JD, JD, JD,’” the operative said.
I'm sure they were thinking about Thiel's money, too.
posted by mediareport at 7:51 AM on July 28 [5 favorites]
With the clock ticking to the Republican National Convention last week, Donald Trump met privately to discuss his running mate search with two of his closest advisers: his sons. The conversation quickly turned tense when the former president indicated that he was leaning toward Doug Burgum, until recently the largely unknown governor of North Dakota — but someone whose low-maintenance, no-drama personality would never threaten to outshine Trump.
That’s when Donald Trump Jr. and Eric Trump chimed in.
“Don Jr. and Eric went bats--- crazy: ‘Why would you do something so stupid? He offers us nothing,’” a longtime Republican operative familiar with the discussion told NBC News. “They were basically all like ‘JD, JD, JD,’” the operative said.
I'm sure they were thinking about Thiel's money, too.
posted by mediareport at 7:51 AM on July 28 [5 favorites]
While I'm sure that everyone involved would deny it and then call me names, I'm guessing there's also some father/son intergenerational trauma in there.
posted by box at 7:57 AM on July 28
posted by box at 7:57 AM on July 28
WaPo this morning with an alternate view: a deep dive into how the Thiel network and other Silicon Valley types grew to know and love Vance, and how they've been grooming him for the last few years into a position of power. [gift link]
This line made me laugh:
“What people realized … with meeting JD in this context is that Silicon Valley is full of smart people, but not all the smart people are in Silicon Valley,” said Patrick McKenna, one of the investors on the bus.
Lots of interesting detail in that article.
posted by mediareport at 8:11 AM on July 28 [2 favorites]
This line made me laugh:
“What people realized … with meeting JD in this context is that Silicon Valley is full of smart people, but not all the smart people are in Silicon Valley,” said Patrick McKenna, one of the investors on the bus.
Lots of interesting detail in that article.
posted by mediareport at 8:11 AM on July 28 [2 favorites]
Greediness and vanity will be their defeat? While Burgham is not Thiel-levels of rich, he is a billionaire and Thiel could have stayed in the background.
posted by beaning at 8:26 AM on July 28
posted by beaning at 8:26 AM on July 28
Two weeks ago they thought they had won outright, so a very different landscape. Harvesting the Thielbucks was a nice little bonus.
posted by Artw at 8:39 AM on July 28
posted by Artw at 8:39 AM on July 28
I was out door-knocking for Democrats yesterday in a neighborhood filled with retired people who have sold their houses and moved to my town to be closer to their kids. That was a depressing door-knocking experience: one dude literally told me that we shouldn't get rid of Confederate statues because slavery is in the Bible, which is certainly a take. Anyway, one lady went on a completely unprompted rant about how terrible JD Vance is. She says she's hated him since she read Hillbilly Elegy for her book club, and she feels personally insulted as a stepmother by his statements about Harris being a childless cat lady, because it implies that being a stepparent doesn't matter. She was 70-something and didn't strike me as terminally online or particularly lefty, so I think word is getting out to the normies.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 9:02 AM on July 28 [7 favorites]
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 9:02 AM on July 28 [7 favorites]
On the "Trump is weird" message, please note that JD Vance did NOT actually write that he had sex with couch cushions and an inside out rubber glove. It's very important to remind people that he didn't say that.
posted by sotonohito at 10:37 AM on July 28 [2 favorites]
posted by sotonohito at 10:37 AM on July 28 [2 favorites]
"Narya Capital in 2021 led a group of conservative investors, including Thiel, to put money into Rumble, the video streaming platform that positions itself as a less-moderated and more rightwing friendly version of YouTube. Vance’s co-founder at Narya, Colin Greenspon, touted the investment as a challenge to big tech’s hold on online services – a frequent conservative talking point during the backlash to content moderation around the pandemic and 2020 presidential election. It was also around this time that Thiel, who heavily backed Trump financially during the 2016 campaign, brought Vance to first talk with Trump during a secretive meeting at Mar-a-Lago in February of 2021, according to the New York Times." (How JD Vance’s path to being Trump’s VP pick wound through Silicon Valley, The Guardian, July 19, 2024)
So Vance has been in the mix for years, and once Thiel demonstrated his commitment to furthering Vance's political career (by spending at least $15 million for Vance's 2022 Senate bid), Vance became very attractive as a VP pick. Thiel also shelled out for other Republican campaigners in 2022, via PAC contributions; supposedly, he also met with Trump at Bedminster in autumn 2021.
Truth Social, the right wing/far right/cesspool social media platform, launched Feb. 21, 2022, is owned by Trump Media & Technology Group [TMTG]; TMTG partners with Rumble.
posted by Iris Gambol at 12:57 PM on July 28 [2 favorites]
So Vance has been in the mix for years, and once Thiel demonstrated his commitment to furthering Vance's political career (by spending at least $15 million for Vance's 2022 Senate bid), Vance became very attractive as a VP pick. Thiel also shelled out for other Republican campaigners in 2022, via PAC contributions; supposedly, he also met with Trump at Bedminster in autumn 2021.
Truth Social, the right wing/far right/cesspool social media platform, launched Feb. 21, 2022, is owned by Trump Media & Technology Group [TMTG]; TMTG partners with Rumble.
posted by Iris Gambol at 12:57 PM on July 28 [2 favorites]
Chuck Schumer Trolls Trump With 10-Day Countdown to Dump Vance
“Now the president has 10 days before the Ohio ballot is locked in,” Schumer said. “He has a choice: Does he keep Vance on the ticket, where he’s-he probably-he’s-he already has a whole lot of baggage, he’s probably going to be more baggage over the weeks because we’ll hear more things about him, or does he pick someone new?posted by achrise at 1:10 PM on July 28
Oh, hey — Inside the powerful Peter Thiel network that anointed JD Vance (WaPo, July 28, 2024) (gift link) A small influential network of right-wing techies orchestrated Vance’s rise in Silicon Valley — and then the GOP. Now the industry stands to gain if he wins the White House. [...] Critics have called him a “shillbilly,” arguing that his relationship to the Thiel network could become a pay-to-play scenario.
"Though Thiel became a Trump megadonor during the 2016 campaign, he ultimately was disappointed by the disorganization of his administration, as well as the lack of focus on science and innovation, according to several people with knowledge of his thinking. But the Vance pick is helping Thiel warm to Trump. And Trump’s selection coincides with a newly sharpened focus on issues of central importance to the tech world. The former president has embraced industry-friendly messages on electric vehicles, cryptocurrency, and artificial intelligence. Trump appeared last month on [David] Sacks’ All-In podcast, where he called his Silicon Valley donors “geniuses.” And at this month’s Republican National Convention, he praised electric vehicle pioneer Elon Musk, saying, “We have to make life good for our smart people.”
"Sacks hosted Trump and Vance at his San Francisco home for a pricey fundraiser in June, where the pair met more than 50 technology executives and other wealthy donors, according to a list of attendees reviewed by The Washington Post.
"The Biden administration, by contrast, has infuriated tech leaders by hindering the crypto industry, attempting to regulate AI and challenging corporate acquisitions — a key path for start-up founders to cash in. Sacks, Musk, Palantir co-founder Joe Lonsdale, Sequoia Capital’s Doug Leone, and founders of the prominent venture capital firm Andreessen Horowitz have all thrown in with Trump and are donating large sums to a pro-Trump PAC."
posted by Iris Gambol at 1:10 PM on July 28 [2 favorites]
"Though Thiel became a Trump megadonor during the 2016 campaign, he ultimately was disappointed by the disorganization of his administration, as well as the lack of focus on science and innovation, according to several people with knowledge of his thinking. But the Vance pick is helping Thiel warm to Trump. And Trump’s selection coincides with a newly sharpened focus on issues of central importance to the tech world. The former president has embraced industry-friendly messages on electric vehicles, cryptocurrency, and artificial intelligence. Trump appeared last month on [David] Sacks’ All-In podcast, where he called his Silicon Valley donors “geniuses.” And at this month’s Republican National Convention, he praised electric vehicle pioneer Elon Musk, saying, “We have to make life good for our smart people.”
"Sacks hosted Trump and Vance at his San Francisco home for a pricey fundraiser in June, where the pair met more than 50 technology executives and other wealthy donors, according to a list of attendees reviewed by The Washington Post.
"The Biden administration, by contrast, has infuriated tech leaders by hindering the crypto industry, attempting to regulate AI and challenging corporate acquisitions — a key path for start-up founders to cash in. Sacks, Musk, Palantir co-founder Joe Lonsdale, Sequoia Capital’s Doug Leone, and founders of the prominent venture capital firm Andreessen Horowitz have all thrown in with Trump and are donating large sums to a pro-Trump PAC."
posted by Iris Gambol at 1:10 PM on July 28 [2 favorites]
Usha Vance told friends Trump appalled her. Now she’s working to elect him. (WaPo, July 27, 2024) Vance told friends she was outraged by Trump’s incitement of the deadly riot at the U.S. Capitol and lamented the social breakdown that fueled his political support, according to one friend, who spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss sensitive conversations. [...] “Usha found the incursion on the Capitol and Trump’s role in it to be deeply disturbing,” the friend recalled. “She was generally appalled by Trump, from the moment of his first election.”
Some [of Usha's friends] watched in disbelief on July 17 when Usha Vance, 38, addressed an overwhelmingly White crowd on the convention floor that tittered uneasily as she joked about her husband learning to cook Indian food and audibly gasped when she mentioned her vegetarian diet.
An outpouring of racist bile directed against Usha Vance from the far right has erupted online. Nick Fuentes, a white supremacist and antisemite who visited the former president at his Mar-a-Lago resort in 2022, questioned the wisdom of having JD Vance on the ticket, asking, “What kind of values does a man have to marry somebody that far outside your race, who isn’t even a Christian?”
posted by Iris Gambol at 1:37 PM on July 28 [3 favorites]
Some [of Usha's friends] watched in disbelief on July 17 when Usha Vance, 38, addressed an overwhelmingly White crowd on the convention floor that tittered uneasily as she joked about her husband learning to cook Indian food and audibly gasped when she mentioned her vegetarian diet.
An outpouring of racist bile directed against Usha Vance from the far right has erupted online. Nick Fuentes, a white supremacist and antisemite who visited the former president at his Mar-a-Lago resort in 2022, questioned the wisdom of having JD Vance on the ticket, asking, “What kind of values does a man have to marry somebody that far outside your race, who isn’t even a Christian?”
posted by Iris Gambol at 1:37 PM on July 28 [3 favorites]
Unlike Melania, who I suspect knew exactly what she was getting in DJT, I really wonder what happens with someone like Usha. Did she drink the koolaid from all the right-wing people around Vance? Did she swallow her disagreements and assume the tradwife position for the sake of her husband? Is she assuming it will all pass in a few years and she can return to her career? Would she ever become a George Conway to JD's Kelly-Anne?
It's a strange world.
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 2:48 PM on July 28 [1 favorite]
It's a strange world.
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 2:48 PM on July 28 [1 favorite]
New York city sanitation is getting into couch humour on their twitter
Have a couch you just.... don't love anymore?
posted by yyz at 3:04 PM on July 28 [1 favorite]
Have a couch you just.... don't love anymore?
posted by yyz at 3:04 PM on July 28 [1 favorite]
"The Biden administration, by contrast, has infuriated tech leaders by hindering the crypto industry, attempting to regulate AI and challenging corporate acquisitions — a key path for start-up founders to cash in. Sacks, Musk, Palantir co-founder Joe Lonsdale, Sequoia Capital’s Doug Leone, and founders of the prominent venture capital firm Andreessen Horowitz have all thrown in with Trump and are donating large sums to a pro-Trump PAC."
Could not this impression be countered by showing how Democratic science, education and STEM programs and incentives fostered tech sector growth in the first place? I mean, for every C-suite exec anxious to cash in, there are hundreds of programmers, admins, researchers, technologists etc who benefitted from the many opportunities created,. Maybe the Democrats should reach out them, to counter the narrative that tech is all-in for Trump.
posted by Artful Codger at 3:08 PM on July 28 [2 favorites]
Could not this impression be countered by showing how Democratic science, education and STEM programs and incentives fostered tech sector growth in the first place? I mean, for every C-suite exec anxious to cash in, there are hundreds of programmers, admins, researchers, technologists etc who benefitted from the many opportunities created,. Maybe the Democrats should reach out them, to counter the narrative that tech is all-in for Trump.
posted by Artful Codger at 3:08 PM on July 28 [2 favorites]
Unlike Melania, who I suspect knew exactly what she was getting in DJT, I really wonder what happens with someone like Usha
Why are you so willing to extend the benefit of the doubt to someone who willingly clerked for both John Roberts and Brett Kavanaugh?
posted by Atom Eyes at 3:30 PM on July 28 [5 favorites]
Why are you so willing to extend the benefit of the doubt to someone who willingly clerked for both John Roberts and Brett Kavanaugh?
posted by Atom Eyes at 3:30 PM on July 28 [5 favorites]
showing how Democratic science, education and STEM programs and incentives fostered tech sector growth in the first place
They forgot about Gore
Who invented the Internet
But likely hates the climate impact of AI...and crypto...and whatever the next AI/crypto is going to be
posted by eustatic at 7:09 PM on July 28
They forgot about Gore
Who invented the Internet
But likely hates the climate impact of AI...and crypto...and whatever the next AI/crypto is going to be
posted by eustatic at 7:09 PM on July 28
Have a couch you just.... don't love anymore?
Worried that it will feel put out if you just toss it to the curb?
Don't be. A visit from one of our specialist cleanup crews will help cushion the blow.
posted by flabdablet at 10:01 PM on July 28
Worried that it will feel put out if you just toss it to the curb?
Don't be. A visit from one of our specialist cleanup crews will help cushion the blow.
posted by flabdablet at 10:01 PM on July 28
Gee Mr. Thiel, who could possibly have guessed that a political party based on denying science, impeding innovation, opposing change, and working religion into everything might possibly not be paragons of research, technology, and innovation?
The fact that Thiel is a staunch Repiblican is proof that his class loyalty and arrogance outweigh his lived experience dealing with Republicans as a gay man.
posted by sotonohito at 6:17 AM on July 29 [1 favorite]
The fact that Thiel is a staunch Repiblican is proof that his class loyalty and arrogance outweigh his lived experience dealing with Republicans as a gay man.
posted by sotonohito at 6:17 AM on July 29 [1 favorite]
He’s a billionaire, he hasn’t lived any experience outside of that for a long time.
posted by Artw at 6:25 AM on July 29 [2 favorites]
posted by Artw at 6:25 AM on July 29 [2 favorites]
The fact that Thiel is a staunch Repiblican is proof that his class loyalty and arrogance outweigh his lived experience dealing with Republicans as a gay man.
Clout. It’s both fascinating and depressing how well seeing Tony Kushner’s “Angels in America” helps in understanding US politics. Trump absorbed all the lessons of his mentor Roy Cohn, obviously, but now we see how Peter Thiel, JD Vance’s employer and investor fits the mold as well.
Why would Thiel, a gay man, spend so much money on the party that hates gays? As Cohn says in the play, “Homosexuals are men who know nobody and who nobody knows. Who have zero clout.” But Thiel has clout (i.e., money) and so he is insulated from the party line.
The GOP wants to roll back equality, and even legalize discrimiation against LGBTQ individuals. But Thiel doesn’t worry because his money buys a “some animals are more equal than others” status.
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 8:49 AM on July 29 [1 favorite]
Clout. It’s both fascinating and depressing how well seeing Tony Kushner’s “Angels in America” helps in understanding US politics. Trump absorbed all the lessons of his mentor Roy Cohn, obviously, but now we see how Peter Thiel, JD Vance’s employer and investor fits the mold as well.
Why would Thiel, a gay man, spend so much money on the party that hates gays? As Cohn says in the play, “Homosexuals are men who know nobody and who nobody knows. Who have zero clout.” But Thiel has clout (i.e., money) and so he is insulated from the party line.
The GOP wants to roll back equality, and even legalize discrimiation against LGBTQ individuals. But Thiel doesn’t worry because his money buys a “some animals are more equal than others” status.
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 8:49 AM on July 29 [1 favorite]
With Vance's rocky debut, Republicans ask if Trump's VP bet will pay off (WaPo)
posted by box at 9:38 AM on July 29 [1 favorite]
Trump later said choosing Vance was a difficult pick, likening it to “The Apprentice,” his former reality television show, in a meeting with Florida’s delegates in Milwaukee. But Trump said it was partially about securing the future of the Republican Party after he was gone. “He is going to be a superstar in the future,” Trump told delegates and donors huddled inside the Baird Center, according to an attendee.Whether it's his reality tv show or his political career, Trump's track record for picking winners is worse than American Idol's.
posted by box at 9:38 AM on July 29 [1 favorite]
J.D. Vance may be the worst politician I've ever seen (Charles Pierce for Esquire via archive.is)
posted by box at 10:07 AM on July 29 [2 favorites]
posted by box at 10:07 AM on July 29 [2 favorites]
Can we start to refer to Vance's book as "School Bully Elegy?"
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 11:01 AM on July 29 [1 favorite]
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 11:01 AM on July 29 [1 favorite]
I kind of want someone to push Vance for specifics about his crazy cat lady tax for people who don't have kids. Is there an age at which the tax penalty for not having kids would kick in? Because if not, it's basically an extra tax on young people. I think it would be fun to tell 18-year-olds that they're going to have to pay extra taxes for the sin of not being ready to procreate. (And I understand that part of the point is to incentivize having kids at a young age, but I don't think that actual young people are going to appreciate that kind of interference in their fundamental life choices.)
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 12:12 PM on July 29 [5 favorites]
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 12:12 PM on July 29 [5 favorites]
“The short answer is he’s a weirdo. The longer answer is he’s a white supremacist and he’s a white nationalist.”
posted by box at 12:58 PM on July 29 [4 favorites]
posted by box at 12:58 PM on July 29 [4 favorites]
Why would Thiel, a gay man, spend so much money on the party that hates gays?
The reupholstering bills are tax deductible.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 2:43 PM on July 29
The reupholstering bills are tax deductible.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 2:43 PM on July 29
Want to incentivize having kids? Modify the economy so that a family can raise one or two kids on one salary.
I'm AC and I approve this message.
posted by Artful Codger at 3:37 PM on July 29 [6 favorites]
I'm AC and I approve this message.
posted by Artful Codger at 3:37 PM on July 29 [6 favorites]
In Vance's remark -- "We're effectively run in this country, via the Democrats, via our corporate oligarchs, by a bunch of childless cat ladies..." -- is seems odd that only the "cat ladies" bit has gotten attention when Vance is literally a corporate oligarch himself.
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 4:27 PM on July 29 [2 favorites]
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 4:27 PM on July 29 [2 favorites]
How's this for a nickname for Vance? Mountain douche.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 5:23 PM on July 29 [4 favorites]
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 5:23 PM on July 29 [4 favorites]
Fact, not particularly fun: one of Vance’s children is named Vivek (the others are Ewan and Mirabel).
posted by box at 5:49 PM on July 29
posted by box at 5:49 PM on July 29
When those weirdos say “oligarch” they mean “Soros.”
posted by notyou at 7:08 PM on July 29 [1 favorite]
posted by notyou at 7:08 PM on July 29 [1 favorite]
It’s kind of amazing that someone can know Peter Thiel, basically be one of his minions in fact, and a bunch of other completely shitty billionaires like Musk, and still aparently be deeply into there having to be a conspiracy behind anything but it’s not your shitty mates who own everything, it’s actually Jewish people.
posted by Artw at 7:31 PM on July 29 [2 favorites]
posted by Artw at 7:31 PM on July 29 [2 favorites]
It's a question about something petty, but my hairdresser claimed this during an appointment this weekend and I have to verify it:
So, does J.D. Vance wear eyeliner?
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 7:33 PM on July 29
So, does J.D. Vance wear eyeliner?
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 7:33 PM on July 29
still aparently be deeply into there having to be a conspiracy behind anything but it’s not your shitty mates who own everything, it’s actually Jewish people.
IMO Vance is both smart and evil enough to know damn well it's a lie, but since it gets the rubes and racists cranked up, he goes for it.
It's a question about something petty, but my hairdresser claimed this during an appointment this weekend and I have to verify it:
So, does J.D. Vance wear eyeliner?
The Internet (or at least the wise-ass liberal parts of it) was pretty convinced he does all the way back in 2021 during his run for the Senate. For example - Queerty.com: J.D. Vance posts racist video but all anyone’s talking about are his erect nipples and bad eyeliner
posted by soundguy99 at 8:28 PM on July 29 [1 favorite]
IMO Vance is both smart and evil enough to know damn well it's a lie, but since it gets the rubes and racists cranked up, he goes for it.
It's a question about something petty, but my hairdresser claimed this during an appointment this weekend and I have to verify it:
So, does J.D. Vance wear eyeliner?
The Internet (or at least the wise-ass liberal parts of it) was pretty convinced he does all the way back in 2021 during his run for the Senate. For example - Queerty.com: J.D. Vance posts racist video but all anyone’s talking about are his erect nipples and bad eyeliner
posted by soundguy99 at 8:28 PM on July 29 [1 favorite]
I thought Vance's deal was distichiasis (double eyelashes; the second set does not have to be complete) and deep-set eyes, giving an eyeliner effect.
posted by Iris Gambol at 8:48 PM on July 29
posted by Iris Gambol at 8:48 PM on July 29
Yes, Photo Shows JD Vance Passed Out on Floor During College Years (Snopes via Yahoo News, July 29, 2024) Pic posted to Facebook on Jan. 8, 2007; "On Jan. 15, 2007, Vance responded from his personal account, 'You Danielle, this might be my first official blackout, I don't remember being asleep at all.' Danielle responded the following morning, 'Your pillow was a stuffed animal you grabbed, btw.' A user named Eric posted the third and final comment, reading, 'Was the fact that your belt buckle and pants were undone mentioned at all yet? Cuz that's true also.'"
posted by Iris Gambol at 9:50 PM on July 29 [1 favorite]
posted by Iris Gambol at 9:50 PM on July 29 [1 favorite]
So, does J.D. Vance wear eyeliner?
I've also wondered whether he's wearing colored contacts.
posted by box at 4:36 AM on July 30
I've also wondered whether he's wearing colored contacts.
posted by box at 4:36 AM on July 30
From yesterday, here's a Vance-adjacent NYTimes article about open hostilities between the various Silicon Valley oligarchs: It’s Silicon Valley vs. Silicon Valley as Political Fights Escalate (alt link: archived).
posted by nobody at 5:13 AM on July 30 [1 favorite]
posted by nobody at 5:13 AM on July 30 [1 favorite]
I thought Vance's deal was distichiasis
Curious if you know any kind of source for that, Iris Gambol; I just see a few folks with unsourced speculation online and would like to find out more.
posted by mediareport at 6:48 AM on July 30 [1 favorite]
Curious if you know any kind of source for that, Iris Gambol; I just see a few folks with unsourced speculation online and would like to find out more.
posted by mediareport at 6:48 AM on July 30 [1 favorite]
Thomas Dewey was the Republican nominee against FDR (1944) and Truman (1948). FDR's daughter made famous a description about him, He looks like the little man on top of a wedding cake.
My mother, 50 years later, told me that was what destroyed his campaign. (it was memorable enough to her that she was talking about it in the 90s.) It seemed so perfect a description and he had a lot of blandness to him.
JD Vance didn't make sweet sweet love to a sofa, sofa as I know. But the appellation fits him perfectly.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 6:50 AM on July 30 [4 favorites]
My mother, 50 years later, told me that was what destroyed his campaign. (it was memorable enough to her that she was talking about it in the 90s.) It seemed so perfect a description and he had a lot of blandness to him.
JD Vance didn't make sweet sweet love to a sofa, sofa as I know. But the appellation fits him perfectly.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 6:50 AM on July 30 [4 favorites]
Sofa, so good.
posted by flabdablet at 8:48 AM on July 30
posted by flabdablet at 8:48 AM on July 30
Trump Replaces Vance with Sarah Palin (Borowitz report; /s)
The JD Vance era ended on Tuesday as Donald J. Trump replaced his embattled running mate with the former Alaska governor Sarah Palin.posted by kirkaracha at 12:46 PM on July 30 [1 favorite]
Unveiling his new VP pick at Mar-a-Lago, Trump said, “I wish JD well, but we needed an upgrade.”
Palin was more outspoken about her predecessor, saying, “When you’re running for vice president, you can’t keep saying the first dumb thing that pops into your head.”
When asked about the search process that led to Palin, Trump said, “Dan Quayle said no.”
So, does J.D. Vance wear eyeliner?
I thought Vance's deal was distichiasis
Maybe he’s born with it… 🎶Maybe it’s Maybelline🎶
posted by armeowda at 12:50 PM on July 30 [3 favorites]
I thought Vance's deal was distichiasis
Maybe he’s born with it… 🎶Maybe it’s Maybelline🎶
posted by armeowda at 12:50 PM on July 30 [3 favorites]
(for all his many faults, he has pretty eyes! i have no idea if he's a genetic eyelash mutant or pencils them in every morning, but it works!)
posted by mittens at 1:17 PM on July 30 [1 favorite]
posted by mittens at 1:17 PM on July 30 [1 favorite]
It's not weird for a man to wear eyeliner. What's weird is for a guy to make a huge big deal over traditional masculinity AND ALSO wear eyeliner. That's weird.
posted by rikschell at 3:23 PM on July 30 [9 favorites]
posted by rikschell at 3:23 PM on July 30 [9 favorites]
mediareport, "I thought" = no source, just my impression after enlarging a couple of photos and seeing extra lashes.
Permanent makeup, as a tattooed eyeliner, is also on the table.
Eyeliner is cool. It's unusual for a American right-wing/"conservative" male politician to wear eyeliner, of any kind. I thought distichiasis, because Vance isn't interesting enough to wear eyeliner.
posted by Iris Gambol at 3:47 PM on July 30 [1 favorite]
Permanent makeup, as a tattooed eyeliner, is also on the table.
Eyeliner is cool. It's unusual for a American right-wing/"conservative" male politician to wear eyeliner, of any kind. I thought distichiasis, because Vance isn't interesting enough to wear eyeliner.
posted by Iris Gambol at 3:47 PM on July 30 [1 favorite]
"It's an incel platform, dude. It's SUPER weird. And people need to know."
posted by box at 5:33 AM on July 31 [6 favorites]
posted by box at 5:33 AM on July 31 [6 favorites]
I sense a new slogan coming on:
TRUMP • VANCE 2024: Historically the choice of a vice president makes no difference in elections
posted by mazola at 12:35 PM on July 31 [4 favorites]
TRUMP • VANCE 2024: Historically the choice of a vice president makes no difference in elections
posted by mazola at 12:35 PM on July 31 [4 favorites]
Trump Allies Believe Kellyanne Conway Is Badmouthing JD Vance: She denies it, but more than a dozen people close to the campaign say it’s true. [The Bulwark]
posted by mazola at 3:18 PM on July 31
posted by mazola at 3:18 PM on July 31
They shouldn't worry about it. It's clearly just alternative badmouthing.
posted by flabdablet at 1:51 AM on August 1
posted by flabdablet at 1:51 AM on August 1
TRUMP • VANCE 2024: Historically the choice of a vice president makes no difference in elections
TFG is truly a wonder. His diminished ego couldn’t tolerate the idea of someone standing in his place, even hypothetically, even as boilerplate, so he reached for whatever was nearest at hand to remove the threat, and it was that.
posted by notyou at 6:38 AM on August 1 [1 favorite]
TFG is truly a wonder. His diminished ego couldn’t tolerate the idea of someone standing in his place, even hypothetically, even as boilerplate, so he reached for whatever was nearest at hand to remove the threat, and it was that.
posted by notyou at 6:38 AM on August 1 [1 favorite]
“What if you died?”
/blinks uncomprehendingly at the idea that the world would continue to exist
posted by Artw at 7:35 AM on August 1 [1 favorite]
/blinks uncomprehendingly at the idea that the world would continue to exist
posted by Artw at 7:35 AM on August 1 [1 favorite]
Ancient Egypt to Taylor Swift: The historic roots of the 'cat lady': With debates over the expression "childless cat ladies" dominating the 2024 US election, the BBC explores the historic links between women and their feline friends. [BBC]
The origins of the cat-woman connectionposted by mazola at 10:26 AM on August 1 [5 favorites]The answer, it seems, lies in Christianity. "Effectively women and cats in unison were associated with pre-Christian goddesses," Maddicott says, adding [which] "the church would have frowned upon and [could] be the root of some of the suspicion that later exploded with the witch trials." … In her book The Cat and the Human Imagination, Katharine M Rogers writes that in the Middle Ages, the Roman Catholic Church viewed free-roaming single women in the same light as female cats on the prowl. Later still, to eradicate Europe of non-Christian beliefs, all non-Christian deities were branded as evil, and cats were declared Satan's minions. A slew of religious propaganda followed, describing either women, cats, or both, as evil.
JD Vance Is An Investor In A Far Right Video Platform Filled With Neo-Nazi Content
Vance has had a six-figure stake in Rumble, an online video platform. The company has played host to Russian propaganda and to far-right personalities like Stew Peters and Tim Pool. It has also featured even more extreme content, including explicitly neo-Nazi images and themes like this song touting the “Reich” and calling for Jews to be placed in ovens from a “dissident rapper” with a dedicated page on the site. The site features a plethora of channels and videos dedicated to the concept of “white genocide,” which is a core belief for white supremacists. It also hosts channels for explicitly white supremacist organizations including VDare and Patriot Front, which has led masked demonstrations around the country.
posted by Artw at 3:40 PM on August 1 [5 favorites]
Vance has had a six-figure stake in Rumble, an online video platform. The company has played host to Russian propaganda and to far-right personalities like Stew Peters and Tim Pool. It has also featured even more extreme content, including explicitly neo-Nazi images and themes like this song touting the “Reich” and calling for Jews to be placed in ovens from a “dissident rapper” with a dedicated page on the site. The site features a plethora of channels and videos dedicated to the concept of “white genocide,” which is a core belief for white supremacists. It also hosts channels for explicitly white supremacist organizations including VDare and Patriot Front, which has led masked demonstrations around the country.
posted by Artw at 3:40 PM on August 1 [5 favorites]
...and Rumble hosts Trump's Truth Social. From ArtW's Talking Points Memo link: "Vance’s stake in Rumble was the subject of a New York Times piece during his Senate race in 2022. That story focused on Rumble hosting the Kremlin-backed propaganda network RT, but gave less attention to the extensive hate speech on the site." NYT needs revive its TBT feature when reporting on these nogoodniks. Vance and his ilk have been signaling or showboating their affiliations for years.
posted by Iris Gambol at 4:44 PM on August 1 [5 favorites]
posted by Iris Gambol at 4:44 PM on August 1 [5 favorites]
J.D. Vance to his 7-year old son: "Son, shut the hell up for thirty seconds about Pikachu."
posted by box at 3:41 PM on August 6 [1 favorite]
posted by box at 3:41 PM on August 6 [1 favorite]
J.D. Vance to his 7-year old son: "Son, shut the hell up for thirty seconds about Pikachu."
!!!
posted by mazola at 3:45 PM on August 6 [1 favorite]
!!!
posted by mazola at 3:45 PM on August 6 [1 favorite]
J.D. Vance to his 7-year old son: "Son, shut the hell up for thirty seconds about Pikachu."
I clicked through to the podcast video because I wanted to hear him say this, but got so skeeved by how bad he's spreading in his chair and his weirdly draped modesty tie that I had to nope out. Maybe the generously wide cushions gave him a chubby. If anyone knows the timestamp I'd be appreciative.
posted by phunniemee at 4:19 PM on August 6 [1 favorite]
I clicked through to the podcast video because I wanted to hear him say this, but got so skeeved by how bad he's spreading in his chair and his weirdly draped modesty tie that I had to nope out. Maybe the generously wide cushions gave him a chubby. If anyone knows the timestamp I'd be appreciative.
posted by phunniemee at 4:19 PM on August 6 [1 favorite]
@ lawngnomesorceress.bsky.social
walz may just be the lesser evil here, as all dem candidates are, but high school social studies teachers do 1.5x damage versus debate bros and coaches do 2x versus extremely online dudes. the vp debate is gonna be like rolling up to the celadon city gym with a charizard
posted by Artw at 4:27 PM on August 6 [2 favorites]
walz may just be the lesser evil here, as all dem candidates are, but high school social studies teachers do 1.5x damage versus debate bros and coaches do 2x versus extremely online dudes. the vp debate is gonna be like rolling up to the celadon city gym with a charizard
posted by Artw at 4:27 PM on August 6 [2 favorites]
Historically Unpopular Project 2025 VP Pick JD Vance Tries New Tactic: Don’t Worry, I’m Irrelevant (democrats.org, Aug. 11, 2024)
JD Vance says 2021 comments about giving more votes to people with kids were a ‘thought experiment’ (NBC, Aug. 11, 2024) [Vance was interviewed on ABC News today.] “Democrats said we should give children the right to vote — some Democrats had said we’re going to give children the right to vote,” he said. “And I said, well, if we’re going to give the rights to the children, then we should actually just allow the parents to cast those votes. Right? I trust a parent more with a decision like that than I do, say, a 14-year-old. So, it’s a thought experiment.”
In the same ABC interview: Sen. JD Vance affirmed former President Donald Trump's assertion that the vice presidential pick doesn't matter to the vast majority of voters. However, Vance stressed he's "absolutely" sure Trump is confident he could step up as commander in chief if needed.
Vance says Trump wouldn’t ban abortion pill days after Trump indicated he would be open to it (NBC, Aug. 11, 2024) [Vance was interviewed on CBS today, too.] In an interview on CBS’ “Face the Nation,” the Ohio Republican was asked whether a Trump-Vance administration would use the Food and Drug Administration to block access to mifepristone.
“Well, no,” he said. “What the president has said very clearly is that abortion policy should be made by the states, right? You of course want to make sure that any medicine is safe and it’s prescribed in the right way, and so forth.” Vance said Trump wants individual states and voters in those states to make decisions on abortion policies and for the federal government to respect those decisions. He added that Trump has “consistently” said the party needs “to get out of the culture war side of the abortion issue.”
From disparaged VP pick to love-seat lothario to sad solo campaigner to Trump's thankless interpreter, in less than a month. Couldn't have happened to a nicer guy: JD Vance, father of three biracial kids, defends Trump’s attack on Kamala Harris’ biracial identity as "totally reasonable."
posted by Iris Gambol at 6:14 PM on August 11 [6 favorites]
JD Vance says 2021 comments about giving more votes to people with kids were a ‘thought experiment’ (NBC, Aug. 11, 2024) [Vance was interviewed on ABC News today.] “Democrats said we should give children the right to vote — some Democrats had said we’re going to give children the right to vote,” he said. “And I said, well, if we’re going to give the rights to the children, then we should actually just allow the parents to cast those votes. Right? I trust a parent more with a decision like that than I do, say, a 14-year-old. So, it’s a thought experiment.”
In the same ABC interview: Sen. JD Vance affirmed former President Donald Trump's assertion that the vice presidential pick doesn't matter to the vast majority of voters. However, Vance stressed he's "absolutely" sure Trump is confident he could step up as commander in chief if needed.
Vance says Trump wouldn’t ban abortion pill days after Trump indicated he would be open to it (NBC, Aug. 11, 2024) [Vance was interviewed on CBS today, too.] In an interview on CBS’ “Face the Nation,” the Ohio Republican was asked whether a Trump-Vance administration would use the Food and Drug Administration to block access to mifepristone.
“Well, no,” he said. “What the president has said very clearly is that abortion policy should be made by the states, right? You of course want to make sure that any medicine is safe and it’s prescribed in the right way, and so forth.” Vance said Trump wants individual states and voters in those states to make decisions on abortion policies and for the federal government to respect those decisions. He added that Trump has “consistently” said the party needs “to get out of the culture war side of the abortion issue.”
From disparaged VP pick to love-seat lothario to sad solo campaigner to Trump's thankless interpreter, in less than a month. Couldn't have happened to a nicer guy: JD Vance, father of three biracial kids, defends Trump’s attack on Kamala Harris’ biracial identity as "totally reasonable."
posted by Iris Gambol at 6:14 PM on August 11 [6 favorites]
I passed through a little town (population: ~6,500) recently and saw some "Cat ladies 4 Harris" graffiti. I'm hesitant to draw any conclusions from this, but it did make me smile.
posted by johnofjack at 5:01 PM on August 14 [1 favorite]
posted by johnofjack at 5:01 PM on August 14 [1 favorite]
One of my friends who lives in an ultra red exurb of Atlanta just posted a picture of the yard of her neighbor who has kept his Kemp for Governor sign up for 2 years since the election and just added a Harris sign next to it. The arc of history may finally be bending.
posted by hydropsyche at 5:20 PM on August 14 [2 favorites]
posted by hydropsyche at 5:20 PM on August 14 [2 favorites]
In resurfaced clip, JD Vance co-signs idea that "postmenopausal females" exist to help raise kids. (Salon, Aug. 14, 2024) Also:
Vance agreed that the “weird, unadvertised benefit of marrying an Indian woman” was the support network of Vance’s mother-in-law, who took a sabbatical from her role as a biology professor at the University of California, San Diego to help raise Vance’s youngest child at the time.
Vance proceeded to launch into an attack on liberalism, which he claimed demanded families have less of a hand in their children’s lives.
“Why didn’t she just keep her job, give us part of the wages to pay somebody else to do it? Cause that is the thing that the hyper-liberalized economics wants you to do,” Vance said, concluding that it was more advantageous for older women to work in the domestic sphere than return to their workplaces.
[From Vance's appearance, in 2020, on "The Portal" podcast — hosted by Eric Weinstein, the Managing Director of Peter Thiel’s Thiel Capital.]
posted by Iris Gambol at 1:40 AM on August 15
Vance agreed that the “weird, unadvertised benefit of marrying an Indian woman” was the support network of Vance’s mother-in-law, who took a sabbatical from her role as a biology professor at the University of California, San Diego to help raise Vance’s youngest child at the time.
Vance proceeded to launch into an attack on liberalism, which he claimed demanded families have less of a hand in their children’s lives.
“Why didn’t she just keep her job, give us part of the wages to pay somebody else to do it? Cause that is the thing that the hyper-liberalized economics wants you to do,” Vance said, concluding that it was more advantageous for older women to work in the domestic sphere than return to their workplaces.
[From Vance's appearance, in 2020, on "The Portal" podcast — hosted by Eric Weinstein, the Managing Director of Peter Thiel’s Thiel Capital.]
posted by Iris Gambol at 1:40 AM on August 15
Vance said, concluding that it was more advantageous for older women to work in the domestic sphere than return to their workplaces.
[Regina George voice] So you agree, wages need to be increased and the government needs to establish UBI to enable more single income families so one parent can choose to stay at home.
posted by phunniemee at 2:49 AM on August 15
[Regina George voice] So you agree, wages need to be increased and the government needs to establish UBI to enable more single income families so one parent can choose to stay at home.
posted by phunniemee at 2:49 AM on August 15
*ferengi saying feeeeeeeeeeeemales*
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 4:48 AM on August 15 [5 favorites]
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 4:48 AM on August 15 [5 favorites]
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posted by thecjm at 12:40 PM on July 15 [16 favorites]