FBI investigating apparent assassination attempt of Trump in Florida
September 15, 2024 2:08 PM Subscribe
The former president is safe after a shooting at his Florida golf course Sunday, and officials believe an armed person was trying to target Trump, according to sources briefed on the matter. A local sheriff’s office says it has taken a person into custody after the gunfire at Trump International Golf Club in West Palm Beach.
Please post more as you find it, I'm theoretically about to leave to drive home and this was on the TV just now.
AP, CNN
posted by box at 2:15 PM on September 15
Thank God nobody seems to have been hurt. I'm serious.
posted by fortitude25 at 2:16 PM on September 15 [22 favorites]
posted by fortitude25 at 2:16 PM on September 15 [22 favorites]
CNN: "A long gun has been recovered" an AK-47 woud be an 'assault rifle', surely
posted by torokunai at 2:18 PM on September 15 [3 favorites]
posted by torokunai at 2:18 PM on September 15 [3 favorites]
Please just let him make it to the election, and lose the election, and then get prosecuted in a court of criminal law (again) and go to jail like he should.
posted by heyitsgogi at 2:22 PM on September 15 [132 favorites]
posted by heyitsgogi at 2:22 PM on September 15 [132 favorites]
AP calls it "an AK-style firearm", assume they mean an AR-15-alike, not an actual Kalashnikov.
posted by BungaDunga at 2:23 PM on September 15 [2 favorites]
posted by BungaDunga at 2:23 PM on September 15 [2 favorites]
I guess they do sell Kalashnikov-style rifles in the US though, so who knows. Doesn't really matter.
posted by BungaDunga at 2:26 PM on September 15 [1 favorite]
posted by BungaDunga at 2:26 PM on September 15 [1 favorite]
Reuters went with 'AK-47-style assault rifle,' and the NYT says "Law enforcement officials recovered an AR-15 or AK-47-type semiautomatic rifle."
(And, while I wouldn't normally editorialize on a breaking story like this, of course it's an AR--that's the kind of gun that people use for things like this.)
posted by box at 2:26 PM on September 15 [7 favorites]
(And, while I wouldn't normally editorialize on a breaking story like this, of course it's an AR--that's the kind of gun that people use for things like this.)
posted by box at 2:26 PM on September 15 [7 favorites]
And now this fucking guy is gonna suck up even more of the secret service budget. Jesus, just go to solitary confinement in prison already. Much more secure.
posted by ishmael at 2:27 PM on September 15 [30 favorites]
posted by ishmael at 2:27 PM on September 15 [30 favorites]
Where's the 2A guys whining about how you can't just walk around with an AR outside the president's golf course these days and how that's totally unAmerican. I guess that's only when Clinton and ilk are targets.
So - what's weird is last night I had a dream at a family friends house and at one point a bunch of military types came storming up to a train-track that was running through their property. There was work being done on stoplights for the track (even though there was no road or anything crossing it, it was just in their field). I went inside freaked out thinking it was some sort of attack on the track from a terrorist, then I was told it was Secret Service protecting the President. My assumption was in the dream this was to be a track he took to get somewhere (as if he'd ride a train), and someone must have tipped them to a plot or something. It was far more military than secret service, though. Regardless, it's weird to see this today after my dream. I kinda wished it was near a track just so I could be like "holy shit, I'm psychic".
posted by symbioid at 2:36 PM on September 15 [7 favorites]
So - what's weird is last night I had a dream at a family friends house and at one point a bunch of military types came storming up to a train-track that was running through their property. There was work being done on stoplights for the track (even though there was no road or anything crossing it, it was just in their field). I went inside freaked out thinking it was some sort of attack on the track from a terrorist, then I was told it was Secret Service protecting the President. My assumption was in the dream this was to be a track he took to get somewhere (as if he'd ride a train), and someone must have tipped them to a plot or something. It was far more military than secret service, though. Regardless, it's weird to see this today after my dream. I kinda wished it was near a track just so I could be like "holy shit, I'm psychic".
posted by symbioid at 2:36 PM on September 15 [7 favorites]
It is mildly interesting that all these lone-wolf loser guys suddenly can't hit the broad side of a barn despite all their tacticool gear and picatinny gadgetry.
posted by aramaic at 2:38 PM on September 15 [48 favorites]
posted by aramaic at 2:38 PM on September 15 [48 favorites]
At this point he’s probably got an office within the campaign devoted to faking these things.
We're back to conspiracy theories again in just a few comments.
posted by doctornemo at 2:42 PM on September 15 [33 favorites]
We're back to conspiracy theories again in just a few comments.
posted by doctornemo at 2:42 PM on September 15 [33 favorites]
From CNN.com:
A man taken into custody after gunshots were fired near former President Donald Trump at the Trump International Golf Club in West Palm Beach, Florida, was “relatively calm” when detained, Martin County Sheriff William D. Snyder said Sunday.
“He was not displaying a lot of emotions. Never asked, ‘What is this about?’” the sheriff said.
Snyder said the unnamed suspect was not armed when law enforcement officials took him out of the car. Snyder said the sheriff’s office would take the vehicle to FBI custody, which will take over the investigation, along with the Palm Beach County Sheriff’s Office and the US Secret Service.
Snyder said his agency “flooded” Interstate 95 and closed a large swatch of the highway before eventually safely stopping the suspect vehicle.
“I have a clear understanding from investigators that we actually do have the suspect that they’re looking for in Palm Beach County,” Snyder said.
posted by doctornemo at 2:43 PM on September 15 [1 favorite]
A man taken into custody after gunshots were fired near former President Donald Trump at the Trump International Golf Club in West Palm Beach, Florida, was “relatively calm” when detained, Martin County Sheriff William D. Snyder said Sunday.
“He was not displaying a lot of emotions. Never asked, ‘What is this about?’” the sheriff said.
Snyder said the unnamed suspect was not armed when law enforcement officials took him out of the car. Snyder said the sheriff’s office would take the vehicle to FBI custody, which will take over the investigation, along with the Palm Beach County Sheriff’s Office and the US Secret Service.
Snyder said his agency “flooded” Interstate 95 and closed a large swatch of the highway before eventually safely stopping the suspect vehicle.
“I have a clear understanding from investigators that we actually do have the suspect that they’re looking for in Palm Beach County,” Snyder said.
posted by doctornemo at 2:43 PM on September 15 [1 favorite]
NYT just a few minutes ago:
Mr. Trump was on the course, a few hundred yards away, when Secret Service personnel opened fire on a suspect, who fled the scene in a vehicle and was later taken into custody, law enforcement officials said at a briefing. A rifle with a scope was recovered from the bushes, officials said, along with a camera. A Secret Service representative, Rafael Barros, said it was not yet clear if the suspect had fired any shots.
posted by doctornemo at 2:45 PM on September 15 [1 favorite]
Mr. Trump was on the course, a few hundred yards away, when Secret Service personnel opened fire on a suspect, who fled the scene in a vehicle and was later taken into custody, law enforcement officials said at a briefing. A rifle with a scope was recovered from the bushes, officials said, along with a camera. A Secret Service representative, Rafael Barros, said it was not yet clear if the suspect had fired any shots.
posted by doctornemo at 2:45 PM on September 15 [1 favorite]
If you jump into conspiracy theories before you have any facts, you have a problem with believing conspiracy theories.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 2:47 PM on September 15 [12 favorites]
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 2:47 PM on September 15 [12 favorites]
We're back to conspiracy theories again in just a few comments.
I’m not looking to start a debate here, but if you think the levels of grasping nihilism and ratfuckery that someone like Trump is open to to win are beyond that at this point, I’m not really sure what to say to you.
posted by ryanshepard at 2:47 PM on September 15 [43 favorites]
I’m not looking to start a debate here, but if you think the levels of grasping nihilism and ratfuckery that someone like Trump is open to to win are beyond that at this point, I’m not really sure what to say to you.
posted by ryanshepard at 2:47 PM on September 15 [43 favorites]
You ever get that feeling that maybe the reason no time travelers intervened in 1930's German politics because they were too busy elsewhere?
posted by pwnguin at 2:50 PM on September 15 [90 favorites]
posted by pwnguin at 2:50 PM on September 15 [90 favorites]
"Is capable of something" and "did this specific thing" are not the same.
posted by axiom at 2:50 PM on September 15 [23 favorites]
posted by axiom at 2:50 PM on September 15 [23 favorites]
Where's the 2A guys whining about how you can't just walk around with an AR outside the president's golf course these days and how that's totally unAmerican. I guess that's only when Clinton and ilk are targets.
I mean, isn't Florida one of those 2A Open Carry/"Stand Your Ground" states? How is the SS not opening fire on every fifth jackass just walking around?
posted by Pedantzilla at 2:52 PM on September 15 [15 favorites]
I mean, isn't Florida one of those 2A Open Carry/"Stand Your Ground" states? How is the SS not opening fire on every fifth jackass just walking around?
posted by Pedantzilla at 2:52 PM on September 15 [15 favorites]
plenty of people think he’s a threat. We can assume this was real until there’s literally any evidence this might not have been real.
posted by heyitsgogi at 2:53 PM on September 15 [4 favorites]
posted by heyitsgogi at 2:53 PM on September 15 [4 favorites]
if you don’t think the levels of grasping nihilism and ratfuckery that someone like Trump is open to to win are beyond that at this point, I’m not really sure what to say to you.
Sigh. We did this last time Trump was shot, remember?
And now, with even less evidence.
It's not a conspiracy theory if the person who says it isn't on the opposition team, eh?
posted by doctornemo at 2:53 PM on September 15 [7 favorites]
Sigh. We did this last time Trump was shot, remember?
And now, with even less evidence.
It's not a conspiracy theory if the person who says it isn't on the opposition team, eh?
posted by doctornemo at 2:53 PM on September 15 [7 favorites]
To be fair, Trump tweeted that he hated Taylor Swift. I could see how that could make an affectless man with a rifle, scope, camera, and SUV snap.
posted by GenjiandProust at 2:53 PM on September 15 [22 favorites]
posted by GenjiandProust at 2:53 PM on September 15 [22 favorites]
Florida, man.
posted by doctornemo at 2:54 PM on September 15 [13 favorites]
posted by doctornemo at 2:54 PM on September 15 [13 favorites]
My pet conspiracy theory: this is one of Trump's elaborate attempts to cheat at golf.
posted by swift at 2:54 PM on September 15 [96 favorites]
posted by swift at 2:54 PM on September 15 [96 favorites]
I believe the proper term is “boomerang effect.” When you go around claiming the best way to deal with people you disagree with are “2nd amendment solutions” then don’t be fucking surprised when some whackadoodle starts shooting at you.
posted by Big Al 8000 at 3:02 PM on September 15 [45 favorites]
posted by Big Al 8000 at 3:02 PM on September 15 [45 favorites]
Fingers crossed this ruins his ability to enjoy golf for the rest of his life.
posted by coffeecat at 3:03 PM on September 15 [63 favorites]
posted by coffeecat at 3:03 PM on September 15 [63 favorites]
In a country with more guns than people, it stands to reason that the Venn circles of “hates a famous asshole”, “thinks guns are the answer to everything”, and “has nothing to lose” would overlap from time to time, even if the famous asshole loudly supports the right of such people to collect and tote all manner of deadly weapons.
posted by armeowda at 3:04 PM on September 15 [10 favorites]
posted by armeowda at 3:04 PM on September 15 [10 favorites]
The shooter's name (or at least the man who was arrested) is ryan wesley routh.
please let it not be a person of color or a transgender person or an immigrant please let it not be a person of color or a transgender person or an immigrant please let it not be a person of color or a transgender person or an immigrant ... or a liberal, sweet deity
posted by MiraK at 3:05 PM on September 15 [22 favorites]
please let it not be a person of color or a transgender person or an immigrant please let it not be a person of color or a transgender person or an immigrant please let it not be a person of color or a transgender person or an immigrant ... or a liberal, sweet deity
posted by MiraK at 3:05 PM on September 15 [22 favorites]
PleasedontlethimbeHaitianPleasedontlethimbeHaitianPleasedontlethimbeHaitian
posted by essexjan at 3:08 PM on September 15 [17 favorites]
posted by essexjan at 3:08 PM on September 15 [17 favorites]
If getting zinged in the ear alongside the bloodiest of bloody-shirt images at the height of his polling rise couldn't get him a durable sympathy bounce, nothing will.
posted by Rhaomi at 3:09 PM on September 15 [11 favorites]
posted by Rhaomi at 3:09 PM on September 15 [11 favorites]
"To be fair, Trump tweeted that he hated Taylor Swift. I could see how that could make an affectless man with a rifle, scope, camera, and SUV snap." -posted by GenjiandProust
"My pet conspiracy theory: this is one of Trump's elaborate attempts to cheat at golf." - posted by swift
epony? somethingelsesteryical?
posted by symbioid at 3:10 PM on September 15 [17 favorites]
"My pet conspiracy theory: this is one of Trump's elaborate attempts to cheat at golf." - posted by swift
epony? somethingelsesteryical?
posted by symbioid at 3:10 PM on September 15 [17 favorites]
It took about 4 days for everybody to forget the first shooting. I'm guessing, this one might last 24 hours.
posted by signal at 3:11 PM on September 15 [16 favorites]
posted by signal at 3:11 PM on September 15 [16 favorites]
Potentially the shooter's twitter account. If true then he seems to be quite clearly mentally unstable.
posted by MiraK at 3:11 PM on September 15 [3 favorites]
posted by MiraK at 3:11 PM on September 15 [3 favorites]
hahaha Ryan Wesley Routh is now wikinotable and has this for an entry:
58-year-old alleged would-be assassin in the attempted assassination of Donald J. Trump that took place on the 15th of September 2024. Routh was observing his 2nd Amendment right to bear arms when Secret Service began shooting at him.
posted by egypturnash at 3:11 PM on September 15 [16 favorites]
58-year-old alleged would-be assassin in the attempted assassination of Donald J. Trump that took place on the 15th of September 2024. Routh was observing his 2nd Amendment right to bear arms when Secret Service began shooting at him.
posted by egypturnash at 3:11 PM on September 15 [16 favorites]
In the bushes, where this guy was, is an AK-47 style rifle with a scope; two backpacks, which were hung on the fence and had ceramic tile in them; and a GoPro.
The GoPro suggests the shooter was planning to post on tiktok afterwards, no?
posted by signal at 3:12 PM on September 15 [8 favorites]
The GoPro suggests the shooter was planning to post on tiktok afterwards, no?
posted by signal at 3:12 PM on September 15 [8 favorites]
(Fox News is saying Ryan Wesley Routh is 58 years old, for what that's worth, and promises a mugshot from law enforcement sources later.)
posted by box at 3:13 PM on September 15 [2 favorites]
posted by box at 3:13 PM on September 15 [2 favorites]
We're back to conspiracy theories again in just a few commentsI know that a lot of people want to use Metafilter as an alternative aggregator for the news but the reason why threads like this are a bad use of Metafilter is that unless it's the sort of breaking news stories where Actual Facts are readily released it's just a magnet for members here to whip each other up with conspiracies, conjecture, and fan fiction. This entire FPP was made by someone about to get in a car and just telling us to "talk among ourselves."
Best Of The Web indeed.
posted by bl1nk at 3:15 PM on September 15 [40 favorites]
I know Jodie Foster is still hot but this is not the way to get her attention.
posted by downtohisturtles at 3:16 PM on September 15 [25 favorites]
posted by downtohisturtles at 3:16 PM on September 15 [25 favorites]
Wikipedia just nixed the article on Routh:
"Sorry, this page was recently deleted (within the last 24 hours). The deletion, protection, and move log for the page are provided below for reference.
22:22, 15 September 2024 Discospinster talk contribs deleted page Wikipedia:Ryan Wesley Routh (G6: Wrong namespace and not worth moving to mainspace)"
posted by doctornemo at 3:27 PM on September 15 [2 favorites]
"Sorry, this page was recently deleted (within the last 24 hours). The deletion, protection, and move log for the page are provided below for reference.
22:22, 15 September 2024 Discospinster talk contribs deleted page Wikipedia:Ryan Wesley Routh (G6: Wrong namespace and not worth moving to mainspace)"
posted by doctornemo at 3:27 PM on September 15 [2 favorites]
I feel sympathy for the Secret Service folks that have to risk their lives for that utter piece of dogshit.
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 3:30 PM on September 15 [36 favorites]
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 3:30 PM on September 15 [36 favorites]
Potentially the shooter's twitter account. If true then he seems to be quite clearly mentally unstable.
Editing this- I'm not sure this is the guy because there's conflicting info.
posted by oneirodynia at 3:30 PM on September 15 [1 favorite]
Editing this- I'm not sure this is the guy because there's conflicting info.
posted by oneirodynia at 3:30 PM on September 15 [1 favorite]
Next: bumbled attempt while Trump is ordering a hamburger.
Next again: bumbled attempt while Trump is at home, brainstorming a new nickname for a political opponent.
Ad infinitum; an endless, accelerating treadmill of failed assassinations in increasingly anodyne and intimate situations, until Trump is at last set on sitting quietly alone in a small locked room, guarded against the world, bragging to no one about how well everything is going.
posted by cortex at 3:30 PM on September 15 [9 favorites]
Next again: bumbled attempt while Trump is at home, brainstorming a new nickname for a political opponent.
Ad infinitum; an endless, accelerating treadmill of failed assassinations in increasingly anodyne and intimate situations, until Trump is at last set on sitting quietly alone in a small locked room, guarded against the world, bragging to no one about how well everything is going.
posted by cortex at 3:30 PM on September 15 [9 favorites]
From his Twitter account it seems like he voted Trump in 2016, then started supporting Tulsi Gabbard and Bernie Sanders in 2020, possibly donated money to Beto at around the same time, then supported Vivek Ramaswamy and Nikki Haley, then has become obsessed with the Ukraine war (super pro-Ukraine) and possibly as a result of that he hates Trump.
His Twitter account is reminiscent of someone with severe mental illness, sounds like he regularly loses touch with reality.
posted by MiraK at 3:31 PM on September 15 [11 favorites]
His Twitter account is reminiscent of someone with severe mental illness, sounds like he regularly loses touch with reality.
posted by MiraK at 3:31 PM on September 15 [11 favorites]
The chaos around this particular individual is no good for anyone.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 3:33 PM on September 15 [12 favorites]
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 3:33 PM on September 15 [12 favorites]
The New York Post is already spinning the would-be shooter as a leftist who bragged about being a do-gooder.
posted by LindsayIrene at 3:36 PM on September 15 [1 favorite]
posted by LindsayIrene at 3:36 PM on September 15 [1 favorite]
From his Twitter account it seems like he voted Trump in 2016, then started supporting Tulsi Gabbard and Bernie Sanders in 2020, possibly donated money to Beto at around the same time, then supported Vivek Ramaswamy and Nikki Haley, then has become obsessed with the Ukraine war (super pro-Ukraine) and possibly as a result of that he hates Trump.
So, the twitter account posted upthread that I saw was opened in 2020. There was indeed a lot about Ukraine. Did he have more than 1 account?
posted by oneirodynia at 3:36 PM on September 15 [1 favorite]
DJT may end up being the first one to be assassinated by his own supporters.
Also, the wolves are already on record as considering him 'definitely not delicious'.
posted by zaixfeep at 3:38 PM on September 15 [8 favorites]
Also, the wolves are already on record as considering him 'definitely not delicious'.
posted by zaixfeep at 3:38 PM on September 15 [8 favorites]
would-be shooter as a leftist
More likely just left-handed...
posted by zaixfeep at 3:40 PM on September 15 [2 favorites]
More likely just left-handed...
posted by zaixfeep at 3:40 PM on September 15 [2 favorites]
How sinister...
posted by downtohisturtles at 3:42 PM on September 15 [14 favorites]
posted by downtohisturtles at 3:42 PM on September 15 [14 favorites]
DJT may end up being the first one to be assassinated by his own supporters
James Garfield would like a word.
posted by 922257033c4a0f3cecdbd819a46d626999d1af4a at 3:42 PM on September 15 [16 favorites]
James Garfield would like a word.
posted by 922257033c4a0f3cecdbd819a46d626999d1af4a at 3:42 PM on September 15 [16 favorites]
It is mildly interesting that all these lone-wolf loser guys suddenly can't hit the broad side of a barn despite all their tacticool gear and picatinny gadgetry.
I'm not a gun nut (or owner) but I believe that the AR-15 -style assault rifles are short to medium range, many-bullets-quickly type of weapon, and not what you'd really want for a long-distance sniper-type use.
Of course, that style of gun is mainly bought as a masturbatory aid/military cosplay/SHTF fantasy, and for most owners, actually using the thing (besides the occasional range, or some cans/bottles/insulators/tweetybirds) is an afterthought. We should be grateful, I guess.
posted by Artful Codger at 3:44 PM on September 15 [5 favorites]
I'm not a gun nut (or owner) but I believe that the AR-15 -style assault rifles are short to medium range, many-bullets-quickly type of weapon, and not what you'd really want for a long-distance sniper-type use.
Of course, that style of gun is mainly bought as a masturbatory aid/military cosplay/SHTF fantasy, and for most owners, actually using the thing (besides the occasional range, or some cans/bottles/insulators/tweetybirds) is an afterthought. We should be grateful, I guess.
posted by Artful Codger at 3:44 PM on September 15 [5 favorites]
Vice presidential candidate Tim Walz:
Gwen and I are glad to hear that Donald Trump is safe. Violence has no place in our country. It’s not who we are as a nation.
posted by doctornemo at 3:47 PM on September 15 [20 favorites]
Gwen and I are glad to hear that Donald Trump is safe. Violence has no place in our country. It’s not who we are as a nation.
posted by doctornemo at 3:47 PM on September 15 [20 favorites]
Presidential candidate Kamala Harris:
I have been briefed on reports of gunshots fired near former President Trump and his property in Florida, and I am glad he is safe. Violence has no place in America.
posted by doctornemo at 3:49 PM on September 15 [15 favorites]
I have been briefed on reports of gunshots fired near former President Trump and his property in Florida, and I am glad he is safe. Violence has no place in America.
posted by doctornemo at 3:49 PM on September 15 [15 favorites]
Honestly, I'm here for the spinning up and fan fiction.
posted by outgrown_hobnail at 3:51 PM on September 15 [8 favorites]
posted by outgrown_hobnail at 3:51 PM on September 15 [8 favorites]
Violence has no place in our country. It IS who we are as a nation.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 3:52 PM on September 15 [32 favorites]
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 3:52 PM on September 15 [32 favorites]
Confused, rage-filled gun violence is a fact of life for school children. It has no place in politics.
posted by cortex at 3:56 PM on September 15 [71 favorites]
posted by cortex at 3:56 PM on September 15 [71 favorites]
It’s not who we are as a nation.
Walz seems like a good enough guy, but this is some Pollyanna bullshit. It’s demonstrably exactly who we are as a nation, and any voting adult with two brain cells to rub together knows that. There’s no point in pretending otherwise.
posted by ryanshepard at 3:56 PM on September 15 [32 favorites]
Walz seems like a good enough guy, but this is some Pollyanna bullshit. It’s demonstrably exactly who we are as a nation, and any voting adult with two brain cells to rub together knows that. There’s no point in pretending otherwise.
posted by ryanshepard at 3:56 PM on September 15 [32 favorites]
It is unsettling to reflect that at this point I'm just "eh" on stuff like this. Trump will never be assassinated, for one thing, and for another everything is so bananas right now that an assassination attempt, something which would have seemed portentous and Very Symbolic Of The State Of Things a few years ago, now just seems like par for the course, as it were.
posted by Frowner at 3:57 PM on September 15 [26 favorites]
posted by Frowner at 3:57 PM on September 15 [26 favorites]
From the previous assassination attempt commentary
"He needs to Live - and he needs to Lose".
posted by lalochezia at 3:59 PM on September 15 [31 favorites]
"He needs to Live - and he needs to Lose".
posted by lalochezia at 3:59 PM on September 15 [31 favorites]
The first time this happened: I don't want to hear about your conspiracy theories. There's like a 99% chance this is exactly what it looks like.
Today: I don't want to hear about your conspiracy theories. There is like a 90% chance this is exactly what it looks like.
I'm still on the side of "Oh, let's not" but I'm being honest here.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 4:03 PM on September 15 [14 favorites]
Today: I don't want to hear about your conspiracy theories. There is like a 90% chance this is exactly what it looks like.
I'm still on the side of "Oh, let's not" but I'm being honest here.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 4:03 PM on September 15 [14 favorites]
There’s no point in pretending otherwise.
What would be a good response in the middle of a close election, in your opinion?
posted by Selena777 at 4:06 PM on September 15 [9 favorites]
What would be a good response in the middle of a close election, in your opinion?
posted by Selena777 at 4:06 PM on September 15 [9 favorites]
Walz seems like a good enough guy, but this is some Pollyanna bullshit.
This is the pro-forma shit every competent politician is expected to say, ASAP, in the face of anything like this. Maybe Walz in his heart of hearts is pollyana enough to believe it, but it wouldn't matter; if his first thought had been "get better talent, assholes", he still would have issued that statement, because it's what you do, especially if you're running against the person involved.
The only notable thing about any of the obligate political messaging is the fact that Trump et al, in the same position, wouldn't feel particularly obliged to even go through those motions.
posted by cortex at 4:07 PM on September 15 [89 favorites]
This is the pro-forma shit every competent politician is expected to say, ASAP, in the face of anything like this. Maybe Walz in his heart of hearts is pollyana enough to believe it, but it wouldn't matter; if his first thought had been "get better talent, assholes", he still would have issued that statement, because it's what you do, especially if you're running against the person involved.
The only notable thing about any of the obligate political messaging is the fact that Trump et al, in the same position, wouldn't feel particularly obliged to even go through those motions.
posted by cortex at 4:07 PM on September 15 [89 favorites]
It took about 4 days for everybody to forget the first shooting. I'm guessing, this one might last 24 hours.
Already, while it's still the notional headline on cnn.com, it's one of those little sidebar headlines so they can show you more stuff in the middle, not a big full-page story.
There's one entry about it on r/all , and on my laptop it's a couple of scrolls down the page underneath "Guys discover sexy hair trick" and a random thirty year old photo of Lucy Lawless.
Someone tried to kill Trump again? Who gives a fuck?!
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 4:16 PM on September 15 [13 favorites]
Already, while it's still the notional headline on cnn.com, it's one of those little sidebar headlines so they can show you more stuff in the middle, not a big full-page story.
There's one entry about it on r/all , and on my laptop it's a couple of scrolls down the page underneath "Guys discover sexy hair trick" and a random thirty year old photo of Lucy Lawless.
Someone tried to kill Trump again? Who gives a fuck?!
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 4:16 PM on September 15 [13 favorites]
“
It is mildly interesting that all these lone-wolf loser guys suddenly can't hit the broad side of a barn despite all their tacticool gear and picatinny gadgetry.”
From the NYT article it appears the suspect didn’t actually fire any shots right? The gunshots were from the Secret Service.
posted by Liquidwolf at 4:20 PM on September 15 [6 favorites]
It is mildly interesting that all these lone-wolf loser guys suddenly can't hit the broad side of a barn despite all their tacticool gear and picatinny gadgetry.”
From the NYT article it appears the suspect didn’t actually fire any shots right? The gunshots were from the Secret Service.
posted by Liquidwolf at 4:20 PM on September 15 [6 favorites]
Wind :: whirlwind
posted by supermedusa at 4:20 PM on September 15 [10 favorites]
posted by supermedusa at 4:20 PM on September 15 [10 favorites]
It took about 4 days for everybody to forget the first shooting. I'm guessing, this one might last 24 hours.
the reddit politics sub (which for the record tends lefter-leaning) has one story about it on the front page at the moment, "Harris expresses relief Trump safe after gunshots"
this is below a ton of Springfield Ohio posts & two posts about Trump stating in all caps that he hates Taylor Swift
posted by taquito sunrise at 4:22 PM on September 15 [4 favorites]
the reddit politics sub (which for the record tends lefter-leaning) has one story about it on the front page at the moment, "Harris expresses relief Trump safe after gunshots"
this is below a ton of Springfield Ohio posts & two posts about Trump stating in all caps that he hates Taylor Swift
posted by taquito sunrise at 4:22 PM on September 15 [4 favorites]
"FOUR"
posted by clavdivs at 4:23 PM on September 15 [10 favorites]
posted by clavdivs at 4:23 PM on September 15 [10 favorites]
What would be a good response in the middle of a close election, in your opinion?
If they were actually capable of – and intending to – do anything meaningful about gun control if they find themselves with the capacity to, something about how gun availability makes America a grotesque and brutal place would seem appropriate?
I put the Walz statement more in the hopes and prayers / more blood and viscera spattered status quo coming your way vein.
posted by ryanshepard at 4:25 PM on September 15 [3 favorites]
If they were actually capable of – and intending to – do anything meaningful about gun control if they find themselves with the capacity to, something about how gun availability makes America a grotesque and brutal place would seem appropriate?
I put the Walz statement more in the hopes and prayers / more blood and viscera spattered status quo coming your way vein.
posted by ryanshepard at 4:25 PM on September 15 [3 favorites]
Someone tried to kill Trump again? Who gives a fuck?!
Just look at the drop off in comments here after the first hour or so. Trump almost got shot? Yeah that'll happen. Thoughts and prayers. Anyway...
posted by downtohisturtles at 4:26 PM on September 15 [10 favorites]
Just look at the drop off in comments here after the first hour or so. Trump almost got shot? Yeah that'll happen. Thoughts and prayers. Anyway...
posted by downtohisturtles at 4:26 PM on September 15 [10 favorites]
"FOUR"
That's not funny. Violence has no place in our Presidential elections. Thank you.
Now watch this drive ...
posted by Reverend John at 4:27 PM on September 15 [28 favorites]
That's not funny. Violence has no place in our Presidential elections. Thank you.
Now watch this drive ...
posted by Reverend John at 4:27 PM on September 15 [28 favorites]
"Mind if I play through?"
posted by Artful Codger at 4:30 PM on September 15 [6 favorites]
posted by Artful Codger at 4:30 PM on September 15 [6 favorites]
so, what kind of club do you think i should use here?
a 5 wood or a 6 iron or an ak47?
posted by pyramid termite at 4:43 PM on September 15 [4 favorites]
a 5 wood or a 6 iron or an ak47?
posted by pyramid termite at 4:43 PM on September 15 [4 favorites]
Saying "Violence has no place in our country." is who we are as a nation.
Hmm. This whole shebang started off with native genocide. A "revolutionary" (*cough*reactionary*cough*) war of self-entitled property owners, Riots and Rebellions against taxes (Shays, Whiskey, Nat Turner), a country at war with itself, mob lynchings, police beatings, state sponsored executions.
Yeah, I think Violence is VERY MUCH our country. I am not saying it's right but stop with this idealist horseshit. It's insipid delusional hogwash that whitewashes the past, and does no favors to the present. It seems we voted a guy in who very much loves violence 8 years ago and it's still a fucking tossup. It very much IS who we are (also we sure love us some military weapons day in and day out). Let's not forget Abu-Ghraib.
Can we do better? sure, but stop this self-congratulatory cockamamie spiels, please. Politicians need to do it to both calm the public order and hearken towards an ideal, but it behooves us to not bite that line, because it allows us to erase our history in the name of something, as if a nation "is" something and not a process.
If you wanna really push how about: In the past this country was very very violent. In the present the country is very very violent. There are ups and downs in this violence. The country, by virtue of it being a nation-state entails violence in its very core to maintain its existence. It is up to us to work towards a reduction of that violence and minimization as much as possible. That is an ideal we should strive towards, but it is not now nor has ever been "who we are".
posted by symbioid at 4:51 PM on September 15 [12 favorites]
Hmm. This whole shebang started off with native genocide. A "revolutionary" (*cough*reactionary*cough*) war of self-entitled property owners, Riots and Rebellions against taxes (Shays, Whiskey, Nat Turner), a country at war with itself, mob lynchings, police beatings, state sponsored executions.
Yeah, I think Violence is VERY MUCH our country. I am not saying it's right but stop with this idealist horseshit. It's insipid delusional hogwash that whitewashes the past, and does no favors to the present. It seems we voted a guy in who very much loves violence 8 years ago and it's still a fucking tossup. It very much IS who we are (also we sure love us some military weapons day in and day out). Let's not forget Abu-Ghraib.
Can we do better? sure, but stop this self-congratulatory cockamamie spiels, please. Politicians need to do it to both calm the public order and hearken towards an ideal, but it behooves us to not bite that line, because it allows us to erase our history in the name of something, as if a nation "is" something and not a process.
If you wanna really push how about: In the past this country was very very violent. In the present the country is very very violent. There are ups and downs in this violence. The country, by virtue of it being a nation-state entails violence in its very core to maintain its existence. It is up to us to work towards a reduction of that violence and minimization as much as possible. That is an ideal we should strive towards, but it is not now nor has ever been "who we are".
posted by symbioid at 4:51 PM on September 15 [12 favorites]
On preview I misunderstood the quoted comment as seeming to endorse the message of "we are not a violent country". My point still stands.
posted by symbioid at 4:53 PM on September 15 [1 favorite]
posted by symbioid at 4:53 PM on September 15 [1 favorite]
Suspect was briefly interviewed by NYTimes in March 2023
posted by Stu-Pendous at 4:53 PM on September 15 [6 favorites]
posted by Stu-Pendous at 4:53 PM on September 15 [6 favorites]
I apologize for starting this thread. There wasn't much up at the time (heck, the news shut off after 15 minutes) and I wanted to see later if anyone found better info. But clearly this was Not Best Of The Web and I apologize for doing it. Mods, feel free to delete it and someone can come up with a nice curated version.
posted by jenfullmoon at 4:56 PM on September 15 [9 favorites]
posted by jenfullmoon at 4:56 PM on September 15 [9 favorites]
Is there any significance to the ceramic tiles or is it just a random detail the writers latched onto?
posted by BCMagee at 5:03 PM on September 15 [4 favorites]
posted by BCMagee at 5:03 PM on September 15 [4 favorites]
someone can come up with a nice curated version.
No, this one is fine! "Curated" in this case would mean "Here's a bunch of links where nobody knows anything yet" and all the comments would be exactly the same.
posted by mittens at 5:03 PM on September 15 [14 favorites]
No, this one is fine! "Curated" in this case would mean "Here's a bunch of links where nobody knows anything yet" and all the comments would be exactly the same.
posted by mittens at 5:03 PM on September 15 [14 favorites]
I apologize for starting this thread.
The post is fine. Metafilter just has trouble digesting breaking news.
posted by swift at 5:05 PM on September 15 [26 favorites]
The post is fine. Metafilter just has trouble digesting breaking news.
posted by swift at 5:05 PM on September 15 [26 favorites]
Metafilter: I apologize for starting this thread
posted by mazola at 5:10 PM on September 15 [103 favorites]
posted by mazola at 5:10 PM on September 15 [103 favorites]
Is there any significance to the ceramic tiles or is it just a random detail the writers latched onto?
"Sometimes used as makeshift body armor," is the most I have head from the talking heads.
posted by The Bellman at 5:14 PM on September 15 [4 favorites]
"Sometimes used as makeshift body armor," is the most I have head from the talking heads.
posted by The Bellman at 5:14 PM on September 15 [4 favorites]
This thread is just fine. I needed a hysterical laugh or two to cope with the absurdity.
posted by Alensin at 5:15 PM on September 15 [2 favorites]
posted by Alensin at 5:15 PM on September 15 [2 favorites]
Is carrying a rifle even illegal in Florida? If he never fired a shot, and was detained without any weapons, what are they going to hold him on? Trespassing on the golf course? Brandishing, maybe, if he was seen aiming the weapon?
posted by toxic at 5:15 PM on September 15 [8 favorites]
posted by toxic at 5:15 PM on September 15 [8 favorites]
Is there anyone with a motive?
posted by mazola at 5:20 PM on September 15 [5 favorites]
posted by mazola at 5:20 PM on September 15 [5 favorites]
"Sometimes used as makeshift body armor,"
Thanks Bellman, a search of "improvised body armor" "ceramic" was very sighs, stares into middle distance
posted by BCMagee at 5:22 PM on September 15 [5 favorites]
Thanks Bellman, a search of "improvised body armor" "ceramic" was very sighs, stares into middle distance
posted by BCMagee at 5:22 PM on September 15 [5 favorites]
They're saying he was 300 to 500 yards from Trump when he was seen with the rifle. That's a long-ass way. Given the proliferation of guns and gun nuts, how do we know he was even aiming at Trump?
posted by Pallas Athena at 5:23 PM on September 15 [3 favorites]
posted by Pallas Athena at 5:23 PM on September 15 [3 favorites]
With apologies to Obama, "Don't shoot. Vote."
posted by vverse23 at 5:24 PM on September 15 [4 favorites]
posted by vverse23 at 5:24 PM on September 15 [4 favorites]
Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer:
I was just briefed by the Acting Director of the Secret Service. I applaud the Secret Service for their quick response to ensure former President Trump’s safety.
There is no place in this country for political violence of any kind. The perpetrator must be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.
posted by doctornemo at 5:25 PM on September 15 [3 favorites]
I was just briefed by the Acting Director of the Secret Service. I applaud the Secret Service for their quick response to ensure former President Trump’s safety.
There is no place in this country for political violence of any kind. The perpetrator must be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.
posted by doctornemo at 5:25 PM on September 15 [3 favorites]
You all have it all wrong. There is no place in the usual daily cavalcade of gun violence in our society for a Presidential election.
... and Guiteau was no Garfield supporter, he was a Snoopy/Peanuts superfan all along.
posted by zaixfeep at 5:25 PM on September 15 [9 favorites]
... and Guiteau was no Garfield supporter, he was a Snoopy/Peanuts superfan all along.
posted by zaixfeep at 5:25 PM on September 15 [9 favorites]
It is mildly interesting that all these lone-wolf loser guys suddenly can't hit the broad side of a barn despite all their tacticool gear and picatinny gadgetry.
aramaic
An odd comment. The first guy came within centimeters of blowing Trump's head off. This guy apparently didn't even fire a shot.
posted by star gentle uterus at 5:33 PM on September 15 [8 favorites]
aramaic
An odd comment. The first guy came within centimeters of blowing Trump's head off. This guy apparently didn't even fire a shot.
posted by star gentle uterus at 5:33 PM on September 15 [8 favorites]
Meanwhile, the Proud Boys were patrolling Springfield Ohio yesterday - it's hard to comprehend all the bad directions this could go.
posted by coffeecat at 5:39 PM on September 15 [20 favorites]
posted by coffeecat at 5:39 PM on September 15 [20 favorites]
Metafilter just has trouble digesting breaking news.
I rebut that this sort of conversation is typical of how such breaking news IS digested by a community and not anything MetaFilter is particularly Not Good At.
posted by solotoro at 5:39 PM on September 15 [21 favorites]
I rebut that this sort of conversation is typical of how such breaking news IS digested by a community and not anything MetaFilter is particularly Not Good At.
posted by solotoro at 5:39 PM on September 15 [21 favorites]
I'll throw another conspiracy theory into the mix: this was set up by the Secret Service to make themselves look good after their previous fuckup.
posted by star gentle uterus at 5:45 PM on September 15 [13 favorites]
posted by star gentle uterus at 5:45 PM on September 15 [13 favorites]
swift: Metafilter just has trouble digesting breaking news.
Practically found an entire ear of corn in the Metafeces.
posted by dr_dank at 5:50 PM on September 15 [5 favorites]
Practically found an entire ear of corn in the Metafeces.
posted by dr_dank at 5:50 PM on September 15 [5 favorites]
This does not seem particularly exciting so far. Secret service spots some dude not particularly close but in the same zip code as DT, legally (as far as we know) carrying a rifle, does not (as far as we know) shoot that rifle, and then the USSS starts shooting, declares "shots fired" and makes a big "situation" out of it?
We'll see I guess. Probably best to wait 24 hours before speculating about what we "know". 50% (made up number) of "breaking news" details turn out to be incorrect in some way.
posted by ctmf at 5:51 PM on September 15 [6 favorites]
We'll see I guess. Probably best to wait 24 hours before speculating about what we "know". 50% (made up number) of "breaking news" details turn out to be incorrect in some way.
posted by ctmf at 5:51 PM on September 15 [6 favorites]
JD Vance said of the most recent massacre of schoolchildren and teachers in Georgia, that school shootings have “become a fact of life.” He’s not wrong, but it is heinous and horrific that the GOP, and Republicans in general, are OK with that. I have no doubt they will be ok with attempted assassinations of candidates for President too. Literally NOTHING, not even Trump being shot at, will convince them to give up their precious, precious guns.
posted by pjsky at 5:54 PM on September 15 [12 favorites]
posted by pjsky at 5:54 PM on September 15 [12 favorites]
the latest from the WaPo
Sunday’s incident occurred while Trump was golfing at his course in West Palm Beach, Fla. Following the usual security procedure, a Secret Service agent moved one or two holes ahead of the former president, 300 to 500 yards away, according to Palm Beach County Sheriff Ric Bradshaw.
At around 1:30 p.m., between the fifth and seventh holes, the agent noticed a rifle muzzle poking through the tree-lined chain-link fence surrounding the golf course, Bradshaw said. The agent opened fire and Trump’s detail rushed him to a holding room. The gunman fled in a black Nissan, leaving behind an AK-47-style rifle, two bags and a camera mounted to the fence to record, according to Bradshaw.
https://wapo.st/3TtwRPg
posted by 922257033c4a0f3cecdbd819a46d626999d1af4a at 5:55 PM on September 15 [5 favorites]
Sunday’s incident occurred while Trump was golfing at his course in West Palm Beach, Fla. Following the usual security procedure, a Secret Service agent moved one or two holes ahead of the former president, 300 to 500 yards away, according to Palm Beach County Sheriff Ric Bradshaw.
At around 1:30 p.m., between the fifth and seventh holes, the agent noticed a rifle muzzle poking through the tree-lined chain-link fence surrounding the golf course, Bradshaw said. The agent opened fire and Trump’s detail rushed him to a holding room. The gunman fled in a black Nissan, leaving behind an AK-47-style rifle, two bags and a camera mounted to the fence to record, according to Bradshaw.
https://wapo.st/3TtwRPg
posted by 922257033c4a0f3cecdbd819a46d626999d1af4a at 5:55 PM on September 15 [5 favorites]
I don't know why any of his supporters could possibly be worried about him getting assassinated. After all he's already told them, they should by now understand that he'll only be dead for three days before coming back, amirite? ;-)
posted by zaixfeep at 6:05 PM on September 15 [7 favorites]
posted by zaixfeep at 6:05 PM on September 15 [7 favorites]
SNL Tom Brokaw on Gerald Ford. incidentally Ford escaped to assassination attempts. can you imagine Tom Brokaw trying to say Squeaky Fromme fast 3X. I just wonder what the secret service background on Fromme was concerning her attempted contact of Jimmy Page before a concert warning of the eminent evil that might ensue.
posted by clavdivs at 6:09 PM on September 15 [6 favorites]
posted by clavdivs at 6:09 PM on September 15 [6 favorites]
“I never thought stochastic terrorism would happen to me”, says man leading the Stochastic Terrorism For Everyone All The Time party.
posted by mhoye at 6:19 PM on September 15 [67 favorites]
posted by mhoye at 6:19 PM on September 15 [67 favorites]
Mod note: Several comments removed for advocating for violence. Please avoid doing that, even against that…former president.
posted by Brandon Blatcher (staff) at 6:19 PM on September 15 [38 favorites]
posted by Brandon Blatcher (staff) at 6:19 PM on September 15 [38 favorites]
"If we're going to live with piles of dead kids in schools, we're going to have to live with assassination attempts." - Dan Savage
posted by mbo at 6:24 PM on September 15 [34 favorites]
posted by mbo at 6:24 PM on September 15 [34 favorites]
"FOUR"
I, for one, find this comment highly inappropriate and objectionable.
The golf shout is spelled "fore".
posted by non canadian guy at 6:30 PM on September 15 [26 favorites]
I, for one, find this comment highly inappropriate and objectionable.
The golf shout is spelled "fore".
posted by non canadian guy at 6:30 PM on September 15 [26 favorites]
Came here to make a weekly-school shooting joke about treating politicians like children, but what's the point. Win or lose in this election, Rs will continue their stochastic and institutional violence against America and ettiquette will require we not respond too rudely. Live by the sword indeed!
posted by No Climate - No Food, No Food - No Future. at 6:38 PM on September 15 [7 favorites]
posted by No Climate - No Food, No Food - No Future. at 6:38 PM on September 15 [7 favorites]
I feel sympathy for the Secret Service folks that have to risk their lives for that utter piece of dogshit.
I feel sympathy for every utter piece of dogshit Abehammerb Lincoln just compared to Napoleon Bone-Aspur.
Just sayin'...
posted by y2karl at 6:45 PM on September 15 [1 favorite]
I feel sympathy for every utter piece of dogshit Abehammerb Lincoln just compared to Napoleon Bone-Aspur.
Just sayin'...
posted by y2karl at 6:45 PM on September 15 [1 favorite]
They're saying he was 300 to 500 yards from Trump when he was seen with the rifle. That's a long-ass way.
fwiw, a few weeks of Army basic training had me hitting six-for-six on 300 meter popups. Prior to that qualification, I'd only ever fired maybe 20 rounds through a .22 for a hunters education class ten years earlier, solely as a familiarization exercise. 600 meters is the effective range of an M16 for point targets.
Now, if he was also wearing one of those novelty beer hats? With the straws that hang down? That's 20 points off the Secret Service detail's threat score and you just make a Florida joke and go back to staring at the middle distance.
posted by mph at 6:46 PM on September 15 [19 favorites]
fwiw, a few weeks of Army basic training had me hitting six-for-six on 300 meter popups. Prior to that qualification, I'd only ever fired maybe 20 rounds through a .22 for a hunters education class ten years earlier, solely as a familiarization exercise. 600 meters is the effective range of an M16 for point targets.
Now, if he was also wearing one of those novelty beer hats? With the straws that hang down? That's 20 points off the Secret Service detail's threat score and you just make a Florida joke and go back to staring at the middle distance.
posted by mph at 6:46 PM on September 15 [19 favorites]
I am truly sad that his golf game was interrupted by gun violence. But I'm pretty pissed off that this year my kid has his soccer game interrupted by gun violence - twice.
posted by Mr.Know-it-some at 6:46 PM on September 15 [36 favorites]
posted by Mr.Know-it-some at 6:46 PM on September 15 [36 favorites]
The golf shout is spelled "fore".
He shouts "four", hits it five, and writes a three on the scorecard.
posted by toxic at 6:56 PM on September 15 [19 favorites]
He shouts "four", hits it five, and writes a three on the scorecard.
posted by toxic at 6:56 PM on September 15 [19 favorites]
This is wild, the suspect seems to have been interviewed in the past (2023) by both the NYT and Semafor because he was interested in volunteering to fight in Ukraine.
posted by gwint at 7:11 PM on September 15 [2 favorites]
posted by gwint at 7:11 PM on September 15 [2 favorites]
Another one: The Japan Times (March 2023): Stolen valor: The U.S. volunteers in Ukraine who lie, waste and bicker
posted by gwint at 7:15 PM on September 15 [5 favorites]
posted by gwint at 7:15 PM on September 15 [5 favorites]
It's also totally crazy that they only caught him so quickly because a random bystander snapped a picture of the car he got into. The secret service is not looking real good right now. I really hope that Harris and Biden are also getting extra resources protecting them. So much crazy in the air.
posted by being_quiet at 7:39 PM on September 15 [11 favorites]
posted by being_quiet at 7:39 PM on September 15 [11 favorites]
So the Secret Service agent who saw the gun poking out of the bushes was two holes ahead of Trump, several hundred yards away... but the shooter would have been much closer to Trump when he was actually playing the hole the guy was closest to. Everyone assumes that, given that these assertions are correct, that the shooter was trying to shoot from extreme distance, when he may have merely been lying in wait.
posted by lhauser at 7:56 PM on September 15 [11 favorites]
posted by lhauser at 7:56 PM on September 15 [11 favorites]
"That's not who we are" is just irritating, though I suppose it could be viewed as aspirational. "That's not who we want to be", at least for a good many of us, is more accurate.
posted by Nancy Lebovitz at 8:16 PM on September 15 [11 favorites]
posted by Nancy Lebovitz at 8:16 PM on September 15 [11 favorites]
I'm really having issues with my sympathy being properly placed. Look, I'm sincerely glad Trump did not get shot. At the same time, when JD Vance floated the statement about "it's a fact a life" after a school shooting less than two weeks ago. Well, you know, kiss my entire ass. These people could do something about these weapons.
posted by fluffy battle kitten at 9:23 PM on September 15 [22 favorites]
posted by fluffy battle kitten at 9:23 PM on September 15 [22 favorites]
At the same time, when JD Vance floated the statement...
OK, but this was a wealthy white male! You can easily see how much more important he is than some random child, right? I mean, that child might even be, y'know, brown. You can see, can't you? How much more important one is?
posted by aramaic at 9:37 PM on September 15 [4 favorites]
OK, but this was a wealthy white male! You can easily see how much more important he is than some random child, right? I mean, that child might even be, y'know, brown. You can see, can't you? How much more important one is?
posted by aramaic at 9:37 PM on September 15 [4 favorites]
I was out at dinner at a restaurant with big TVs when this news broke, interrupting the broadcast on a couple of the TVs. Within seconds they'd just changed the channel. That's about how I feel about this..."yawn". Nothing even hit him? Who cares. There's lunatics walking around with guns in America in every single damn zip code.
Seems like the rest of America feels much the same. This again? Call me when he needs medical attention.
posted by potrzebie at 9:57 PM on September 15 [13 favorites]
Seems like the rest of America feels much the same. This again? Call me when he needs medical attention.
posted by potrzebie at 9:57 PM on September 15 [13 favorites]
At this point if I were a janitor who had to work anywhere near Trump's Secret Service detail I'd be yelling "This is a broom! I'm carrying a broom into this room! A broom for sweeping!" all goddamn day.
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 9:59 PM on September 15 [13 favorites]
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 9:59 PM on September 15 [13 favorites]
Maybe Trump shouldn't have built his golf course on Gun Club Road.
posted by mbrubeck at 10:15 PM on September 15 [12 favorites]
posted by mbrubeck at 10:15 PM on September 15 [12 favorites]
I wonder if this sort of thing happened before, but nobody noticed because the Secret Service wasn't so on-edge. In any case, I'm glad Trump is OK. We need less political violence.
posted by netowl at 10:19 PM on September 15 [1 favorite]
posted by netowl at 10:19 PM on September 15 [1 favorite]
Here is his website
https://fightforukraine.com.ua/#about
Looks like he was a NAFO freak.
posted by Iax at 10:36 PM on September 15 [2 favorites]
https://fightforukraine.com.ua/#about
Looks like he was a NAFO freak.
posted by Iax at 10:36 PM on September 15 [2 favorites]
The would-be shooter's social media profile makes him kind of a Schrodinger's Assassin - he can be republican or democrat depending on which tweet you read. He's lived out here for Hawaii for a few years and local gossip has it that he was a pest and kind of lolo.
posted by Joey Michaels at 10:36 PM on September 15 [1 favorite]
posted by Joey Michaels at 10:36 PM on September 15 [1 favorite]
I'll throw another conspiracy theory into the mix: this was set up by the Secret Service to make themselves look good after their previous fuckup.
No mention on the NYTimes front page that JD Vance admitted on CNN to making up the cat-eating story about Springfield, OH, which has lead to actual threats of violence.
With any other campaign — particularly with left-leaning candidates — with any other paper, this act of stochastic terrorism would be a front-page scandal that would cause resignations. But here... nothing. (And this does not count.)
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 11:12 PM on September 15 [17 favorites]
No mention on the NYTimes front page that JD Vance admitted on CNN to making up the cat-eating story about Springfield, OH, which has lead to actual threats of violence.
With any other campaign — particularly with left-leaning candidates — with any other paper, this act of stochastic terrorism would be a front-page scandal that would cause resignations. But here... nothing. (And this does not count.)
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 11:12 PM on September 15 [17 favorites]
The would-be shooter's social media profile makes him kind of a Schrodinger's Assassin - he can be republican or democrat depending on which tweet you read. He's lived out here for Hawaii for a few years and local gossip has it that he was a pest and kind of lolo.
It's been a while since I've lived in Hawaii but I'm pretty sure Kaaawa is not a place that would draw in mainland normies. So that tracks. He got busted for squatting there at one point despite having a housing business. Apparently he would tweet at local politicians that they should open every part of the rail project to separate bids. As in each column be built by a different contractor.
Also, Hawaii New Now has the most innocuous looking photo of him because they featured him in a story about flooding in the area in 2018. (This is as opposed to the current photos from his social media where he looks like post-apocalyptic Jon Stewart or small Bill Walton).
posted by LostInUbe at 11:24 PM on September 15 [3 favorites]
It's been a while since I've lived in Hawaii but I'm pretty sure Kaaawa is not a place that would draw in mainland normies. So that tracks. He got busted for squatting there at one point despite having a housing business. Apparently he would tweet at local politicians that they should open every part of the rail project to separate bids. As in each column be built by a different contractor.
Also, Hawaii New Now has the most innocuous looking photo of him because they featured him in a story about flooding in the area in 2018. (This is as opposed to the current photos from his social media where he looks like post-apocalyptic Jon Stewart or small Bill Walton).
posted by LostInUbe at 11:24 PM on September 15 [3 favorites]
At this point if I were a janitor who had to work anywhere near Trump's Secret Service detail I'd be yelling "This is a broom! I'm carrying a broom into this room! A broom for sweeping!" all goddamn day.
posted by Alvy Ampersand
"THIS IS MY BROOM. THERE ARE MANY LIKE IT BUT THIS ONE IS MINE!"
posted by zaixfeep at 11:27 PM on September 15 [16 favorites]
posted by Alvy Ampersand
"THIS IS MY BROOM. THERE ARE MANY LIKE IT BUT THIS ONE IS MINE!"
posted by zaixfeep at 11:27 PM on September 15 [16 favorites]
As for the conspiracy theories, if this was planned they did a poor job. Who thinks they're going to keep America's attention with a full NFL slate in the offering? Despite their protests about the wokeness of sports, at least half of MAGA nation were checking in on their fantasy football teams/their DraftKings or FanDuel bets instead of the regular news.
posted by LostInUbe at 11:28 PM on September 15 [3 favorites]
posted by LostInUbe at 11:28 PM on September 15 [3 favorites]
An odd comment. The first guy came within centimeters of blowing Trump's head off. This guy apparently didn't even fire a shot.
That sure sounds like a description of neither of them hitting what they wanted to.
posted by Dysk at 12:31 AM on September 16 [2 favorites]
That sure sounds like a description of neither of them hitting what they wanted to.
posted by Dysk at 12:31 AM on September 16 [2 favorites]
a camera mounted to the fence to record
Fuckin' Twitch streamers, man.
posted by Joakim Ziegler at 1:05 AM on September 16 [4 favorites]
Fuckin' Twitch streamers, man.
posted by Joakim Ziegler at 1:05 AM on September 16 [4 favorites]
MetaFilter: This does not seem particularly exciting so far
posted by chavenet at 1:57 AM on September 16 [7 favorites]
posted by chavenet at 1:57 AM on September 16 [7 favorites]
From his shed-building company website:
"... our entire business model is designed around us avoiding any and all red tape, conflicts, and time consuming conversations, therefore any responsibility for complying with any Hawaii rules and regulations of any nature or kind fall solely on you or the property owner and building purchaser. As always, across our great country, our governments are complaint driven so by conferring with your neighbors ahead of time and ensuring that they will be comfortable prior is good planning towards avoiding silly arguments over minuscule details."
In case anyone was still wondering about his overall worldview. Also, every structure he ever built looks to be notably shitty.
posted by flod at 2:03 AM on September 16 [9 favorites]
"... our entire business model is designed around us avoiding any and all red tape, conflicts, and time consuming conversations, therefore any responsibility for complying with any Hawaii rules and regulations of any nature or kind fall solely on you or the property owner and building purchaser. As always, across our great country, our governments are complaint driven so by conferring with your neighbors ahead of time and ensuring that they will be comfortable prior is good planning towards avoiding silly arguments over minuscule details."
In case anyone was still wondering about his overall worldview. Also, every structure he ever built looks to be notably shitty.
posted by flod at 2:03 AM on September 16 [9 favorites]
Predictably, Elon has waded into the fray:
"And no one is even trying to assassinate Biden/Harris 🤔"
posted by flod at 2:37 AM on September 16 [2 favorites]
"And no one is even trying to assassinate Biden/Harris 🤔"
posted by flod at 2:37 AM on September 16 [2 favorites]
The secret service need to go pay Me. Musk an unfriendly visit.
posted by pattern juggler at 2:41 AM on September 16 [22 favorites]
posted by pattern juggler at 2:41 AM on September 16 [22 favorites]
Only one thing keeps me from leaning into the “this was a trump set up” camp. The gunman would NOT be white.
posted by pearlybob at 3:01 AM on September 16 [6 favorites]
posted by pearlybob at 3:01 AM on September 16 [6 favorites]
The official X account for the Libertarian Party of New Hampshire posted then deleted a message endorsing the assassination of Vice President Kamala Harris on Sunday, hours before a man was taken into custody for an apparent attempt on her Republican rival’s life, writing that “Anyone who murders Kamala Harris would be an American hero.”
The Libertarian Party later deleted the message, citing X’s rules. “It’s a shame that even on a ‘free speech’ website that libertarians cannot speak freely,” they wrote. “Libertarians are truly the most oppressed minority.” [Boston Globe, paywalled.]
posted by Horace Rumpole at 3:38 AM on September 16 [14 favorites]
The Libertarian Party later deleted the message, citing X’s rules. “It’s a shame that even on a ‘free speech’ website that libertarians cannot speak freely,” they wrote. “Libertarians are truly the most oppressed minority.” [Boston Globe, paywalled.]
posted by Horace Rumpole at 3:38 AM on September 16 [14 favorites]
Mod note: One deleted; don't attack / insult other members. FAQ.
posted by taz (staff) at 3:41 AM on September 16 [4 favorites]
posted by taz (staff) at 3:41 AM on September 16 [4 favorites]
Let's just say that the gunman being white is one good reason not to leap to the sudden conclusion that this is a wild conspiracy skilfully executed by TFG himself. I have many more, but I'm not really in a mood to get back into them again.
posted by rum-soaked space hobo at 3:47 AM on September 16 [3 favorites]
posted by rum-soaked space hobo at 3:47 AM on September 16 [3 favorites]
From his shed-building company website:
...
In case anyone was still wondering about his overall worldview. Also, every structure he ever built looks to be notably shitty.
posted by flod
Dear lord, do you mean there's another villainous Two-Sheds, right in our own back yard?
posted by zaixfeep at 4:06 AM on September 16 [4 favorites]
...
In case anyone was still wondering about his overall worldview. Also, every structure he ever built looks to be notably shitty.
posted by flod
Dear lord, do you mean there's another villainous Two-Sheds, right in our own back yard?
posted by zaixfeep at 4:06 AM on September 16 [4 favorites]
If I were more of a 3d chess player, I'd start a conspiracy theory that Trump WAS killed, just not instantly, by the first assassin and it's now an imposter on the stage - there was a lot of blood at the time of the shooting, the weird bandages, the photos of an uninjured ear floating around, and how much trump looks different now (hair and skin look old / not made up) - but even going in that direction feels like releasing an invasive species on an island and hoping they have a positive effect, a "I'll just put this fire over here with the other fire" strategy.
posted by AzraelBrown at 4:12 AM on September 16 [11 favorites]
posted by AzraelBrown at 4:12 AM on September 16 [11 favorites]
Wait, so Trump's assassin has a self-published book? That, as of this morning, you can actually buy? On Amazon? This particular book? For only 2.99? With a sample that you can read? What a world we live in.
posted by mittens at 4:46 AM on September 16 [9 favorites]
posted by mittens at 4:46 AM on September 16 [9 favorites]
Son of suspect speaks (Guardian, CNN)
“My dad went over there [to Ukraine] and saw people fucking fighting and dying,” the younger Routh said during a brief telephone call when asked about his father. “He … tried to make sure shit was cool, and shit was not cool.”posted by box at 5:04 AM on September 16 [2 favorites]
[WaPo Gift Link] Shooter arrested in 2002 on machine gun charges.
posted by Room 101 at 5:14 AM on September 16 [9 favorites]
He pleaded guilty to the first charge in April 2002, a court docket filing shows, though no other details were publicly available.Sounds like a traditional libertarian whackadoodle.
He also was charged in December of that year, when, according to an account from the News & Record newspaper, Routh, armed with a machine gun, barricaded himself in a United Roofing building in Greensboro for three hours. Authorities say the incident began after he was pulled over for a traffic stop. Police ultimately arrested him without incident.
posted by Room 101 at 5:14 AM on September 16 [9 favorites]
Trump's assassin has a self-published book?
Check out the comments.
posted by doctornemo at 5:14 AM on September 16 [5 favorites]
Check out the comments.
posted by doctornemo at 5:14 AM on September 16 [5 favorites]
The New York Times reporter who interviewed Routh in 2023 reflects, adds more details about the guy. (Gift link)
posted by doctornemo at 5:19 AM on September 16 [1 favorite]
posted by doctornemo at 5:19 AM on September 16 [1 favorite]
So why was Trump playing golf???
If I were a big time Trump donor that’s what I’d want to know. IOW, “I wrote you a $50,000 check and Harris is gaining on every front but you’re playing golf? You need to be campaigning 24/7.”
Seems to me at least some donors will suspend any further support on that basis. Not the nickel-dime ones, but the big money ones.
It’s OK with me, though. Play through, stay off the campaign trail.
posted by beagle at 5:49 AM on September 16 [6 favorites]
If I were a big time Trump donor that’s what I’d want to know. IOW, “I wrote you a $50,000 check and Harris is gaining on every front but you’re playing golf? You need to be campaigning 24/7.”
Seems to me at least some donors will suspend any further support on that basis. Not the nickel-dime ones, but the big money ones.
It’s OK with me, though. Play through, stay off the campaign trail.
posted by beagle at 5:49 AM on September 16 [6 favorites]
Party of allowing lunatics to have guns surprised by lunatic with gun.
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 5:50 AM on September 16 [17 favorites]
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 5:50 AM on September 16 [17 favorites]
"THIS IS MY BROOM. THERE ARE MANY LIKE IT BUT THIS ONE IS MINE!"
Terry Pratchett, Thief of Time
Terry Pratchett, Thief of Time
‘This is your robe, look after it, it belongs to the monastery[...] Here’s your broom, treat it well, it is your friend, you will be fined if you lose it, remember they do not grow on trees'posted by mikelieman at 6:17 AM on September 16 [5 favorites]
If I were a big time Trump donor that’s what I’d want to know. IOW, “I wrote you a $50,000 check and Harris is gaining on every front but you’re playing golf? You need to be campaigning 24/7.”
I mean, he didn't let actually being president get in the way of his busy golfing schedule.
posted by Horace Rumpole at 6:40 AM on September 16 [17 favorites]
I mean, he didn't let actually being president get in the way of his busy golfing schedule.
posted by Horace Rumpole at 6:40 AM on September 16 [17 favorites]
Predictably, Elon has waded into the fray:
"And no one is even trying to assassinate Biden/Harris 🤔"
reminder: this dickhead has government contracts
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 6:50 AM on September 16 [18 favorites]
"And no one is even trying to assassinate Biden/Harris 🤔"
reminder: this dickhead has government contracts
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 6:50 AM on September 16 [18 favorites]
Sounds like a traditional libertarian whackadoodle.
yup. apparently @'d trump on twitter in 2020 that he voted for him in 2016 as well (warning: slurs)
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 6:58 AM on September 16 [1 favorite]
yup. apparently @'d trump on twitter in 2020 that he voted for him in 2016 as well (warning: slurs)
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 6:58 AM on September 16 [1 favorite]
Interview with a former Routh employee:
A North Carolina woman who once worked for the suspect cops say attempted to assassinate Donald Trump while the former president golfed on Sunday remembered her former boss as someone widely derided over his penchant for doing “stupid s***.”
posted by doctornemo at 7:13 AM on September 16 [7 favorites]
A North Carolina woman who once worked for the suspect cops say attempted to assassinate Donald Trump while the former president golfed on Sunday remembered her former boss as someone widely derided over his penchant for doing “stupid s***.”
posted by doctornemo at 7:13 AM on September 16 [7 favorites]
If I were a big time Trump donor that’s what I’d want to know. IOW, “I wrote you a $50,000 check and Harris is gaining on every front but you’re playing golf? You need to be campaigning 24/7.”
Anyone who gives him $50,000 is not thinking logically.
posted by Melismata at 7:27 AM on September 16 [5 favorites]
Anyone who gives him $50,000 is not thinking logically.
posted by Melismata at 7:27 AM on September 16 [5 favorites]
Looks like the court hearing starts shortly... but here's my question. If he bought the rifle legally, didn't fire it, and he was standing on the right side of the chain-link fence marking club boundaries, did he break any laws? He'd just be a guy doing open-carry in a public place with a legal firearm.
I'm sure there's something they'll use for an assassination charge, but I'd love to see him put forth that as a defense.
posted by martin q blank at 7:27 AM on September 16 [13 favorites]
I'm sure there's something they'll use for an assassination charge, but I'd love to see him put forth that as a defense.
posted by martin q blank at 7:27 AM on September 16 [13 favorites]
It took about 4 days for everybody to forget the first shooting. I'm guessing, this one might last 24 hours.
Can confirm I had completely forgotten this happened by the time I woke up this morning -- nay, by the time I went to bed last night-- and was only reminded by seeing this thread.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 7:32 AM on September 16 [7 favorites]
Can confirm I had completely forgotten this happened by the time I woke up this morning -- nay, by the time I went to bed last night-- and was only reminded by seeing this thread.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 7:32 AM on September 16 [7 favorites]
If there's a third failed attempt it probably won't make the front pages, or at least will be below the fold.
America: where taking potshots at presidential candidates is a quaint tradition.
posted by BungaDunga at 7:51 AM on September 16 [3 favorites]
America: where taking potshots at presidential candidates is a quaint tradition.
posted by BungaDunga at 7:51 AM on September 16 [3 favorites]
The official X account for the Libertarian Party of New Hampshiremotto: Live Free And Die
posted by mbrubeck at 7:56 AM on September 16 [8 favorites]
The New York Times sent me a breaking-news email about this event.
They also sent me one about Tito Jackson dying.
posted by box at 7:57 AM on September 16 [7 favorites]
They also sent me one about Tito Jackson dying.
posted by box at 7:57 AM on September 16 [7 favorites]
The 50K donors are not giving that money to help Trump win. They don't really care how he spends it or his time. It's a hedge so that if he does win he will owe them. Sort of a pre-bribe.
posted by being_quiet at 7:57 AM on September 16 [7 favorites]
posted by being_quiet at 7:57 AM on September 16 [7 favorites]
Arguably, the donor/political operative class around Trump would like him to stay away from campaigning as much as possible so he doesn't keep saying dumb stuff. That's why they got Vance, but that backfired.
posted by AndrewInDC at 8:01 AM on September 16 [5 favorites]
posted by AndrewInDC at 8:01 AM on September 16 [5 favorites]
I believe the proper term is “boomerang effect.” When you go around claiming the best way to deal with people you disagree with are “2nd amendment solutions” then don’t be fucking surprised when some whackadoodle starts shooting at you.
I'm going to take this a step further.
The rallying cry of Republicans for generations has been extremism. The Reaganesque mantra of "Thou shalt not criticize another Republican" was kicked aside the moment it became politically expedient for hardliners and Gingrichites to do so. The constant drumbeat from talk radio, from TV pundits, from online sources is that compromise is a mortal sin, that bipartisanship is consorting with the enemy, and that reducing politics and society to Manichean duels between righteous good and vicious evil is the proper way to go.
Countless bills have been knocked down because they delivered only 90% of what the GOP wanted and gave some concessions to the Democrats to get that. Countless 'mainstream' Republicans, themselves often extremists by the standards of those who came before them, got kicked to the curb as RINOs and Squishy Liberals and Traitors to the Cause and got replaced by True Believer nincompoops. Every single budget cycle has people howling at the moon that the government should be shut down entirely, that Republicans should stand united and stop every single bill and every single bit of funding, and that anyone who argues otherwise is a traitor and a quisling and a liberal.
So when you combine that with a deliberately low-information and disruptive and distorting alternative news media, metric tons of violent imagery and rhetoric, and a population weaned on "watering the tree of liberty" being given easy access to gigantic fuckoff guns, you need to remember that you have cultivated a base of unstable, easily misled extremists who have guns and terribly formed opinions and very distorted views on what constitutes treason. You are going to piss off some of these people from time to time. You are going to be reclassified in their minds as The Enemy. And once in a while, one of these dipshits is going to decide to act.
Physician, heal thyself.
posted by delfin at 8:02 AM on September 16 [25 favorites]
I'm going to take this a step further.
The rallying cry of Republicans for generations has been extremism. The Reaganesque mantra of "Thou shalt not criticize another Republican" was kicked aside the moment it became politically expedient for hardliners and Gingrichites to do so. The constant drumbeat from talk radio, from TV pundits, from online sources is that compromise is a mortal sin, that bipartisanship is consorting with the enemy, and that reducing politics and society to Manichean duels between righteous good and vicious evil is the proper way to go.
Countless bills have been knocked down because they delivered only 90% of what the GOP wanted and gave some concessions to the Democrats to get that. Countless 'mainstream' Republicans, themselves often extremists by the standards of those who came before them, got kicked to the curb as RINOs and Squishy Liberals and Traitors to the Cause and got replaced by True Believer nincompoops. Every single budget cycle has people howling at the moon that the government should be shut down entirely, that Republicans should stand united and stop every single bill and every single bit of funding, and that anyone who argues otherwise is a traitor and a quisling and a liberal.
So when you combine that with a deliberately low-information and disruptive and distorting alternative news media, metric tons of violent imagery and rhetoric, and a population weaned on "watering the tree of liberty" being given easy access to gigantic fuckoff guns, you need to remember that you have cultivated a base of unstable, easily misled extremists who have guns and terribly formed opinions and very distorted views on what constitutes treason. You are going to piss off some of these people from time to time. You are going to be reclassified in their minds as The Enemy. And once in a while, one of these dipshits is going to decide to act.
Physician, heal thyself.
posted by delfin at 8:02 AM on September 16 [25 favorites]
From AP's bulletin just now on the hearing:
posted by martin q blank at 8:05 AM on September 16 [7 favorites]
During an eight-minute hearing, prosecutors levied two charges against him: possession of a firearm by a convicted felon and possession of a firearm with an obliterated serial number.Nothing about an assassination attempt, yet.
Officials said Routh could face up to 15 years in prison if convicted on the first charge, and a possible five-year sentence on the second charge.
A bond hearing has been scheduled for Sept. 23, and a probable cause hearing or arraignment has been set for Sept. 30, depending on whether the government secures an indictment on the charges.
posted by martin q blank at 8:05 AM on September 16 [7 favorites]
Also from AP's bulletin:
posted by box at 8:13 AM on September 16 [17 favorites]
Trump said Monday in an interview with Fox News Digital that the accused gunman “believed the rhetoric of Biden and Harris, and he acted on it.”"No inflammatory--you're the inflammatory."
The former president went on to say, “Their rhetoric is causing me to be shot at, when I am the one who is going to save the country, and they are the ones that are destroying the country — both from the inside and out.”
The tone was different than the one Trump adopted immediately after the Pennsylvania assassination attempt in July, when he called for unity and a cooling of the campaign’s tenor, including during his speech at the Republican National Convention.
“They use highly inflammatory language,” Trump told Fox News Digital. “I can use it too — far better than they can — but I don’t.”
posted by box at 8:13 AM on September 16 [17 favorites]
"That's not who we are" says the proud gun owner whose running mate is also a proud gun-owner, from the "Liberal" party.
Like overall I respect both of these people as politicians and am going to vote for them, but the fact that they have both had to make their gun ownership part of the discourse highlights that this is in fact exactly who we are.
posted by aspersioncast at 8:52 AM on September 16 [15 favorites]
Like overall I respect both of these people as politicians and am going to vote for them, but the fact that they have both had to make their gun ownership part of the discourse highlights that this is in fact exactly who we are.
posted by aspersioncast at 8:52 AM on September 16 [15 favorites]
Trump's golf round would have taken him towards hidden gunman [diagram; BBC | News Live]
posted by mazola at 9:25 AM on September 16 [1 favorite]
posted by mazola at 9:25 AM on September 16 [1 favorite]
Washington Post: "Bradshaw described the weapon as an AK-style rifle. However, photos shared at a news conference Sunday appear to show an SKS-type rifle in a polymer stock, fitted with an AK-inspired magazine for 7.62mm cartridges, according to the firearms expert."
posted by BungaDunga at 9:26 AM on September 16 [1 favorite]
posted by BungaDunga at 9:26 AM on September 16 [1 favorite]
Looks like the court hearing starts shortly... but here's my question. If he bought the rifle legally, didn't fire it, and he was standing on the right side of the chain-link fence marking club boundaries, did he break any laws?
from what i gather secret service saw a muzzle poking through the bushes, fired shots at it, the suspect ran, and then they found this cache of gear there
if all that's true then i think at least pointing the weapon in the general direction of trump could be interpreted as a crime but it's also florida so who knows
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 9:26 AM on September 16 [8 favorites]
from what i gather secret service saw a muzzle poking through the bushes, fired shots at it, the suspect ran, and then they found this cache of gear there
if all that's true then i think at least pointing the weapon in the general direction of trump could be interpreted as a crime but it's also florida so who knows
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 9:26 AM on September 16 [8 favorites]
On September 13, 1994, President Bill Clinton signed the Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act of 1994 into law. (Pub.L. No. 103–322, September 13, 1994, 108 Stat 1796.) A provision of that act, known as the Federal Assault Weapons Ban, provided that it was “unlawful for a person to manufacture, transfer, or possess a semiautomatic assault weapon.”
[1993-94 was the happy time when Democrats (more or less) had the trifecta, along with 2009-2010 (not so happy), 2021-22 (ditto)]
posted by torokunai at 9:51 AM on September 16 [1 favorite]
[1993-94 was the happy time when Democrats (more or less) had the trifecta, along with 2009-2010 (not so happy), 2021-22 (ditto)]
posted by torokunai at 9:51 AM on September 16 [1 favorite]
I'd be not at all surprised (but don't know for a fact) if there's some kind of moving zone around high-profile secret service protectees where all the normal open/concealed carry laws are pre-empted. Like a TFR for airplanes.
Doesn't matter anyway, with the felon in possession and the serial number charges, don't even have to reach second-amendment questions OR intent to put him in jail.
posted by ctmf at 10:02 AM on September 16 [3 favorites]
Doesn't matter anyway, with the felon in possession and the serial number charges, don't even have to reach second-amendment questions OR intent to put him in jail.
posted by ctmf at 10:02 AM on September 16 [3 favorites]
Is this an opportunity to press Ron Desantis on how convicted felons can wander around with assault rifle-lite weapons in Florida?
I hope someone asks if Desantis believes former President Trump have been safer if Florida had stricter gun control?
posted by Dalekdad at 10:42 AM on September 16 [3 favorites]
I hope someone asks if Desantis believes former President Trump have been safer if Florida had stricter gun control?
posted by Dalekdad at 10:42 AM on September 16 [3 favorites]
Agreed.
I guess if you are going to go try to shoot TFG, and figured you might abandon the weapon, so might not want to have serial numbers on there? Also raises the question of where a felon was able to purchase a weapon, I guess a gun show or some state that doesn't do background checks?
posted by Windopaene at 10:45 AM on September 16
I guess if you are going to go try to shoot TFG, and figured you might abandon the weapon, so might not want to have serial numbers on there? Also raises the question of where a felon was able to purchase a weapon, I guess a gun show or some state that doesn't do background checks?
posted by Windopaene at 10:45 AM on September 16
I'd be not at all surprised (but don't know for a fact) if there's some kind of moving zone around high-profile secret service protectees where all the normal open/concealed carry laws are pre-empted. Like a TFR for airplanes.
With all the potential assassinatin' going on, maybe there would be an opportunity to create such a thing. And make it cover every elected official country-wide, and the radius like 30 miles.
posted by ctmf at 10:56 AM on September 16 [5 favorites]
With all the potential assassinatin' going on, maybe there would be an opportunity to create such a thing. And make it cover every elected official country-wide, and the radius like 30 miles.
posted by ctmf at 10:56 AM on September 16 [5 favorites]
Ok, so long as you also include areas within 30 miles of any daycare, elementary school, high school, community college, or university.
posted by TwoToneRow at 11:27 AM on September 16 [10 favorites]
posted by TwoToneRow at 11:27 AM on September 16 [10 favorites]
[R]aises the question of where a felon was able to purchase a weapon
These here United States of 'Murca.
posted by riverlife at 11:37 AM on September 16 [2 favorites]
These here United States of 'Murca.
posted by riverlife at 11:37 AM on September 16 [2 favorites]
If he bought the rifle legally, didn't fire it, and he was standing on the right side of the chain-link fence marking club boundaries, did he break any laws? He'd just be a guy doing open-carry in a public place with a legal firearm.
At the least, leveling the rifle in the direction of others isn't carrying it. Open-carry doesn't mean you get to point it at people and plan to shoot them, though of course someone would have to prove the intent. Having fortified his position is going to help prosecutors with that part.
posted by atbash at 11:38 AM on September 16 [3 favorites]
At the least, leveling the rifle in the direction of others isn't carrying it. Open-carry doesn't mean you get to point it at people and plan to shoot them, though of course someone would have to prove the intent. Having fortified his position is going to help prosecutors with that part.
posted by atbash at 11:38 AM on September 16 [3 favorites]
I guess if you are going to go try to shoot TFG, and figured you might abandon the weapon, so might not want to have serial numbers on there? Also raises the question of where a felon was able to purchase a weapon, I guess a gun show or some state that doesn't do background checks?
The gunshow poophole
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 11:44 AM on September 16 [1 favorite]
The gunshow poophole
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 11:44 AM on September 16 [1 favorite]
At the least, leveling the rifle in the direction of others isn't carrying it. Open-carry doesn't mean you get to point it at people and plan to shoot them, though of course someone would have to prove the intent.
*sarcasm*
Well, we only have the Secret Service agents' say-so that he was leveling it. How do we know it wasn't just a twig or something that they saw?
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 12:00 PM on September 16 [1 favorite]
*sarcasm*
Well, we only have the Secret Service agents' say-so that he was leveling it. How do we know it wasn't just a twig or something that they saw?
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 12:00 PM on September 16 [1 favorite]
open carry is mostly illegal in Florida anyway
posted by BungaDunga at 12:00 PM on September 16 [1 favorite]
posted by BungaDunga at 12:00 PM on September 16 [1 favorite]
Republicans block assault rifle bans and back open carry. This is chickens coming home to roost.
posted by kirkaracha at 12:05 PM on September 16 [1 favorite]
posted by kirkaracha at 12:05 PM on September 16 [1 favorite]
Trump's golf round would have taken him towards hidden gunman
The roads along the right and bottom boundaries of the golf course in that photo are lined with a ~10-foot high wall of hedges; there's a big gap where the only barricade onto the course is a waist-high chain link fence. (There is a no trespassing sign.)
posted by kirkaracha at 12:21 PM on September 16 [1 favorite]
The roads along the right and bottom boundaries of the golf course in that photo are lined with a ~10-foot high wall of hedges; there's a big gap where the only barricade onto the course is a waist-high chain link fence. (There is a no trespassing sign.)
posted by kirkaracha at 12:21 PM on September 16 [1 favorite]
It's not like the particular individual running for office has his private schedule posted publicly, and this wasn't a rally where you would expect to find this person in a public setting. I have no theories and offer none, but it seems awfully odd to me how these two particular individuals came to be at around the same location at around the same time.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 12:29 PM on September 16
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 12:29 PM on September 16
I wish one politician would say: Donald Trump is an idiot. Shooting idiots is wrong.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 12:44 PM on September 16 [4 favorites]
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 12:44 PM on September 16 [4 favorites]
it seems awfully odd to me how these two particular individuals came to be at around the same location at around the same time.
Apparently the guy's cell phone location indicated that he had been in that area for like 12 hours, or since around 2 am.
posted by taz at 12:54 PM on September 16 [4 favorites]
Apparently the guy's cell phone location indicated that he had been in that area for like 12 hours, or since around 2 am.
posted by taz at 12:54 PM on September 16 [4 favorites]
This is just irrelevant venting for my own relief but it continues to be monumentally annoying how many Republicans get away with clutching their pearls over this and trying to spin it as a 'Democrats need to lower the temperature!' Not one of them said anything when Trump took to Twitter to share a picture of a supporter's pickup truck-- with an image of Joe Biden kidnapped and hogtied in the back. Or when Trump said his political opponents were "vermin" who needed to be "rooted out." Hardly a word when a militia backing Trump plotted a credible conspiracy to kidnap the Democratic Governor of Michigan-- a governor Trump subjected to constant attacks and accusations. And hardly a word when a far-right nutjob with a track record of repeating Trump's favorite conspiracy theories invaded Nancy Pelosi's home after years of violent, vicious rhetoric against her by Republicans and Trump-- and then beat her husband half to death with a hammer. Actually, "hardly a word" is giving them a little too much credit for that one, considering many of them actually made jokes about the attack, mocked Pelosi for being brutally beaten, and made up insane conspiracy theories about him being gay.
Every news article about a Republican blaming rhetoric from Democrats for this should include a quick overview of how that Republican responded to each of these and a million other instances of violence or violent rhetoric from the right. Anyone calling for Democrats to "lower the temperature" should be asked if they said the same after Trump said Mark Milley should be executed or when Mark Robinson, their nominee for Governor of North Carolina (and an RNC speaker) said that "some folks need killing." They should also be asked to point to specific instances in which high-profile Democrats said anything, anything at all, nearly as violent and drastic as any of these things.
I know it won't happen, but hey, a guy can dream (or at least just vent).
posted by Method Man at 1:29 PM on September 16 [32 favorites]
Every news article about a Republican blaming rhetoric from Democrats for this should include a quick overview of how that Republican responded to each of these and a million other instances of violence or violent rhetoric from the right. Anyone calling for Democrats to "lower the temperature" should be asked if they said the same after Trump said Mark Milley should be executed or when Mark Robinson, their nominee for Governor of North Carolina (and an RNC speaker) said that "some folks need killing." They should also be asked to point to specific instances in which high-profile Democrats said anything, anything at all, nearly as violent and drastic as any of these things.
I know it won't happen, but hey, a guy can dream (or at least just vent).
posted by Method Man at 1:29 PM on September 16 [32 favorites]
projection is the P in GOP
posted by torokunai at 2:29 PM on September 16 [2 favorites]
posted by torokunai at 2:29 PM on September 16 [2 favorites]
It sounds as though Trump‘s golf outings have posed security issues before, and that concern has been expressed. If anything good were to come of this, it would be Don-old being denied his teetimes out of security concerns.
posted by kinnakeet at 3:55 PM on September 16 [2 favorites]
posted by kinnakeet at 3:55 PM on September 16 [2 favorites]
a Secret Service agent moved one or two holes ahead of the former president, 300 to 500 yards away... the agent noticed a rifle muzzle poking through the tree-lined chain-link fence surrounding the golf course.
Even though photographers routinely get photos through that fence, I still find it hard to believe that an agent "noticed a rifle muzzle" in an endless expanse of tree'd fence - too large a visual field, too small an item, for that to seem credible. I wonder what technology actually caught Routh. Heat map? Drone? Direct knowledge of his plan?
posted by nouvelle-personne at 4:12 PM on September 16 [7 favorites]
Even though photographers routinely get photos through that fence, I still find it hard to believe that an agent "noticed a rifle muzzle" in an endless expanse of tree'd fence - too large a visual field, too small an item, for that to seem credible. I wonder what technology actually caught Routh. Heat map? Drone? Direct knowledge of his plan?
posted by nouvelle-personne at 4:12 PM on September 16 [7 favorites]
Republicans block assault rifle bans and back open carry. This is chickens coming home to roost.
I'd argue instead that this is republicans baying about shootings being caused by mental health issues, and then doing nothing to help ameliorate people's anguish or desperation in a society that's designed to wring us all out for every possible dollar we can produce.
posted by sacramental excrementum at 4:15 PM on September 16 [6 favorites]
I'd argue instead that this is republicans baying about shootings being caused by mental health issues, and then doing nothing to help ameliorate people's anguish or desperation in a society that's designed to wring us all out for every possible dollar we can produce.
posted by sacramental excrementum at 4:15 PM on September 16 [6 favorites]
a society that's designed to wring us all out for every possible dollar we can produce.
should be on every billboard in america. just billboards every one of them, billboards.
should be printed on our money. and it's rather one-sided bipartisan as one side sees that as reality while the other sees it as a profit loss due to taxes and regulations.
open carry,, concealed weapons.... I think back to when members of some organizations were openly carrying their rifles, strapped over their shoulders, ar the state capitol. ironically, I was in the capital to sell Roman coins. nonetheless I've only seen the building once thus decided to go so I stopped and talked to these people near the sreps and I said well you have a right to carry your weapon out in the open and it looks like you're doing it responsibly but what's the point.
didn't answer because it was a rhetorical question.
your exercising your rights. the thing is the moment you load that or point that you've broken every law concerning weapons that the state has from one moment your exercising your rights to becoming a menace and a danger to society, so I can ask, what's the point because all you're really doing, if you really care, is caring a big stick over your shoulder. and I love what comes next because they think you're a leftist or whatever just because you're wearing a Bob Ross t-shirt and then you have to get out your phone and slam them down with your family album of soldier credentialls, Wars they fought, the fact that six members in family between them have 38 guns. and I always love to pull the slogan that it's every soldiers right to complain about their government,. best part is you leave a trail sprinkled with the best preparation for the common defense is a good argument.
posted by clavdivs at 5:06 PM on September 16 [2 favorites]
should be on every billboard in america. just billboards every one of them, billboards.
should be printed on our money. and it's rather one-sided bipartisan as one side sees that as reality while the other sees it as a profit loss due to taxes and regulations.
open carry,, concealed weapons.... I think back to when members of some organizations were openly carrying their rifles, strapped over their shoulders, ar the state capitol. ironically, I was in the capital to sell Roman coins. nonetheless I've only seen the building once thus decided to go so I stopped and talked to these people near the sreps and I said well you have a right to carry your weapon out in the open and it looks like you're doing it responsibly but what's the point.
didn't answer because it was a rhetorical question.
your exercising your rights. the thing is the moment you load that or point that you've broken every law concerning weapons that the state has from one moment your exercising your rights to becoming a menace and a danger to society, so I can ask, what's the point because all you're really doing, if you really care, is caring a big stick over your shoulder. and I love what comes next because they think you're a leftist or whatever just because you're wearing a Bob Ross t-shirt and then you have to get out your phone and slam them down with your family album of soldier credentialls, Wars they fought, the fact that six members in family between them have 38 guns. and I always love to pull the slogan that it's every soldiers right to complain about their government,. best part is you leave a trail sprinkled with the best preparation for the common defense is a good argument.
posted by clavdivs at 5:06 PM on September 16 [2 favorites]
I call it, walk quickly and carry the big stick with you policy.
posted by clavdivs at 5:09 PM on September 16 [2 favorites]
posted by clavdivs at 5:09 PM on September 16 [2 favorites]
I mean, just from the bbc article linked above:
"He believed the rhetoric of Biden and Harris, and he acted on it," Trump said of the suspected gunman, external. "Their rhetoric is causing me to be shot at…”
What rhetoric, you ask? TFG continues:
“they are the ones that are destroying the country - both from the inside and out."
"It is called the enemy from within," he said. "They are the real threat."
posted by lostburner at 5:24 PM on September 16 [5 favorites]
"He believed the rhetoric of Biden and Harris, and he acted on it," Trump said of the suspected gunman, external. "Their rhetoric is causing me to be shot at…”
What rhetoric, you ask? TFG continues:
“they are the ones that are destroying the country - both from the inside and out."
"It is called the enemy from within," he said. "They are the real threat."
posted by lostburner at 5:24 PM on September 16 [5 favorites]
As an always atheist I NEVER quote scripture .... but recently I've been having fun tracking down those implying that somehow their god is smiling down on Trump and has healed his ear and quoting:
Revelations 13:3 "One of the heads of the beast seemed to have had a fatal wound, but the fatal wound had been healed. The whole world was filled with wonder and followed the beast."
I've got Trump's number, it's 666 .....
posted by mbo at 5:27 PM on September 16 [12 favorites]
Revelations 13:3 "One of the heads of the beast seemed to have had a fatal wound, but the fatal wound had been healed. The whole world was filled with wonder and followed the beast."
I've got Trump's number, it's 666 .....
posted by mbo at 5:27 PM on September 16 [12 favorites]
Meanwhile, back in reality, these are real people being threatened by Trump and Vance's lies.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 5:35 PM on September 16 [6 favorites]
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 5:35 PM on September 16 [6 favorites]
I have a (rhetorical?) question. Which fucking rhetoric are Trump and Vance referencing? Because the stuff I can think of off the top of my head is stuff like where the D's say it'll be bad if Trump is elected. Which, also in my head we have so much supporting evidence from what happened last time that it's not rhetoric, it's history. Anyway, looking forward to all the videos that are going to show up about rhetoric and labeling.
posted by fluffy battle kitten at 6:10 PM on September 16 [2 favorites]
posted by fluffy battle kitten at 6:10 PM on September 16 [2 favorites]
I think he just learned the word “rhetoric “ and he’s using as often as possible. He said it in the debate and I thought sounded strange coming from him. No doubt many of his fans don’t know what it means. Maybe he doesn’t either really.
posted by Liquidwolf at 6:48 PM on September 16 [5 favorites]
posted by Liquidwolf at 6:48 PM on September 16 [5 favorites]
"agent "noticed a rifle muzzle" in an endless expanse of tree'd fence"
My guess? That he covered up the fence, was the tip off. Agent noticed the muzzle, but that is not what attracted his attention to the area... it was the reduced light from the chest armor tipped him off that something was amiss.
We're more sensitive to light changes and if the agent had a general sense of the light coming through and suddenly or at some point it was reduced compared to the expected light, it's a tip off. Much easier than "oh tiny little barrel poking through"
posted by symbioid at 6:50 PM on September 16 [2 favorites]
My guess? That he covered up the fence, was the tip off. Agent noticed the muzzle, but that is not what attracted his attention to the area... it was the reduced light from the chest armor tipped him off that something was amiss.
We're more sensitive to light changes and if the agent had a general sense of the light coming through and suddenly or at some point it was reduced compared to the expected light, it's a tip off. Much easier than "oh tiny little barrel poking through"
posted by symbioid at 6:50 PM on September 16 [2 favorites]
Reduced light from chest armor? This sounds like it comes from another universe than which I am familiar.
posted by tiny frying pan at 7:03 PM on September 16 [1 favorite]
posted by tiny frying pan at 7:03 PM on September 16 [1 favorite]
1. You have a hole, surrounded by shrubs which blocks the light.
2. There is placed in the path of the photons which goes through this hole, a dark object. Said dark object absorbs the photons coming in the hole. This is how normal matter works, no weird "different universe". It's what opaque objects do.
3. This reduces the overall level of light coming through the hole.
4. Humans are more sensitive light.
5. The reduction in light from the armor that was hanging (to hide the shooter; perhaps this is the confusion also? The shooter was NOT wearing the armor; we know the shooter placed the chest armor in front of his perch spot (see photos linked above and in various articles).
6. If you are expecting a big hole but 1/3 of it is now covered by light, that's an easy tip off that something is up.
7. I surmise in response that - The agent "noticed a barrel" is not the root cause of their attention being drawn to the location. That is to say, it was the lower amount of light coming through that hole/fence area than expected which drew their eye there, and THEN noticed the barrel.
8. That is to say: It was NOT actually the barrel that they saw first, or drew their eyes to the area, but the reduction of light, and once their eyes were focused on the situation they were able to see the barrel sticking through.
If that doesn't make sense to you that's fine, but I'm not saying he had "black hole armor" or whatever you think I'm saying. Just normal Opaque shit.
My point is that had he NOT hung the opaque stuff, it would have made the expected light source to remain closer to the expected level of light from the area (due to prep and expected observables)and less noticeable (which is obvious - if you place an object in front it blocks the light; but I'm trying to be detailed on WHY the eye was drawn to the area in the first place in a way that makes it more than just "he saw an object" - how we see light/vs dark and if people are alert, that can initiate a response (e.g. out of the corner of ones eye) than a static object poking out. It's similar to how motion works. I may not be explaining it the best, but I'm trying to be explicit beyond "big thing block light" and why that is more observable beyond just "static object visualization".
In the end it's conjecture. I think it's viable if one is questioning "how did they see a tiny little barrel poking out of a fence". The answer is - despite the language, that was not what they initially noticed.
Maybe they are so damned good they can literally see a tiny stub of a barrel poking out. The fact is we don't really know where the agent who saw him was located, where he had his sight trained, etc... Further, "I saw a barrel" is the implication of when they felt there was a threat, not the initiating factor of why the attention was drawn to the area. Hope that makes more sense. IDK. Either way I said my explanation on that, and I'm done. Way too many words for a simple phenomenon.
posted by symbioid at 7:22 PM on September 16 [2 favorites]
2. There is placed in the path of the photons which goes through this hole, a dark object. Said dark object absorbs the photons coming in the hole. This is how normal matter works, no weird "different universe". It's what opaque objects do.
3. This reduces the overall level of light coming through the hole.
4. Humans are more sensitive light.
5. The reduction in light from the armor that was hanging (to hide the shooter; perhaps this is the confusion also? The shooter was NOT wearing the armor; we know the shooter placed the chest armor in front of his perch spot (see photos linked above and in various articles).
6. If you are expecting a big hole but 1/3 of it is now covered by light, that's an easy tip off that something is up.
7. I surmise in response that - The agent "noticed a barrel" is not the root cause of their attention being drawn to the location. That is to say, it was the lower amount of light coming through that hole/fence area than expected which drew their eye there, and THEN noticed the barrel.
8. That is to say: It was NOT actually the barrel that they saw first, or drew their eyes to the area, but the reduction of light, and once their eyes were focused on the situation they were able to see the barrel sticking through.
If that doesn't make sense to you that's fine, but I'm not saying he had "black hole armor" or whatever you think I'm saying. Just normal Opaque shit.
My point is that had he NOT hung the opaque stuff, it would have made the expected light source to remain closer to the expected level of light from the area (due to prep and expected observables)and less noticeable (which is obvious - if you place an object in front it blocks the light; but I'm trying to be detailed on WHY the eye was drawn to the area in the first place in a way that makes it more than just "he saw an object" - how we see light/vs dark and if people are alert, that can initiate a response (e.g. out of the corner of ones eye) than a static object poking out. It's similar to how motion works. I may not be explaining it the best, but I'm trying to be explicit beyond "big thing block light" and why that is more observable beyond just "static object visualization".
In the end it's conjecture. I think it's viable if one is questioning "how did they see a tiny little barrel poking out of a fence". The answer is - despite the language, that was not what they initially noticed.
Maybe they are so damned good they can literally see a tiny stub of a barrel poking out. The fact is we don't really know where the agent who saw him was located, where he had his sight trained, etc... Further, "I saw a barrel" is the implication of when they felt there was a threat, not the initiating factor of why the attention was drawn to the area. Hope that makes more sense. IDK. Either way I said my explanation on that, and I'm done. Way too many words for a simple phenomenon.
posted by symbioid at 7:22 PM on September 16 [2 favorites]
Something something Anish Kapoor.
Thanks for breaking down the visual, symbioid. I was going to try and scribble it but I don't know what image hosting sites work anymore, and also it would be bad.
posted by brook horse at 8:52 PM on September 16 [1 favorite]
Thanks for breaking down the visual, symbioid. I was going to try and scribble it but I don't know what image hosting sites work anymore, and also it would be bad.
posted by brook horse at 8:52 PM on September 16 [1 favorite]
>how did they see a tiny little barrel poking out of a fence
not that I particularly care how & why this new kook failed, but in Day of the Jackal, the professional assassin had the chops to set up his rifle sufficiently inside the room so it didn't poke out like that. FWIW the Warren Commission found three street-level eyewitnesses saying the Book Depository shooter failed to set up his shot like that.
posted by torokunai at 9:15 PM on September 16 [2 favorites]
not that I particularly care how & why this new kook failed, but in Day of the Jackal, the professional assassin had the chops to set up his rifle sufficiently inside the room so it didn't poke out like that. FWIW the Warren Commission found three street-level eyewitnesses saying the Book Depository shooter failed to set up his shot like that.
posted by torokunai at 9:15 PM on September 16 [2 favorites]
They're not sending their best.
posted by stet at 10:41 PM on September 16 [2 favorites]
posted by stet at 10:41 PM on September 16 [2 favorites]
What in the actual fuck: Ohio sheriff showing his ass. How is this not some kind of election interference/intimidation? I don't know how I'm not seeing a constant stream of O RLY memes re: rhetoric. Christ, they definitely aren't sending their best.
posted by fluffy battle kitten at 2:19 AM on September 17 [8 favorites]
posted by fluffy battle kitten at 2:19 AM on September 17 [8 favorites]
Wow, symbioid, that was condescending. I don't know what YOU thought I was commenting on, but it didn't require descriptions of how matter works. Sheesh.
posted by tiny frying pan at 4:45 AM on September 17 [9 favorites]
posted by tiny frying pan at 4:45 AM on September 17 [9 favorites]
One thing that was great about John Ganz' When the Clock Broke book this year was the explanation of the Possee Comitatus movement , their goal is empowering the Sheriff to be the local feudal lord overriding all State and Federal reach. Legalized anarchy . .. it's so kooky it just might work!
posted by torokunai at 8:08 AM on September 17 [1 favorite]
posted by torokunai at 8:08 AM on September 17 [1 favorite]
Vance: Trump’s Health-Care Plan Is to Let Insurers Charge More for Preexisting Conditions
What Vance came up with is not only surprising but, if understood properly, far more damaging than Trump’s original statement. The Trump plan, according to Vance, is to permit insurance companies to discriminate against people with preexisting conditions.posted by kirkaracha at 8:19 AM on September 17 [5 favorites]
Vance explained the Trump plan during an interview with NBC’s Kristen Welker: “He, of course, does have a plan for how to fix American health care, but a lot of it goes down, Kristen, to deregulating insurance markets, so that people can actually choose a plan that makes sense for them.”
Conservatism: all the choices you can afford – and not one. drop. more.
In 2005 I applied to Anthem for a self-employed health plan, but was denied because I had visited a knee specialist for moderate knee pain when on COBRA in 2003 (and was then told I could walk it off). Not going back??
posted by torokunai at 8:51 AM on September 17 [3 favorites]
In 2005 I applied to Anthem for a self-employed health plan, but was denied because I had visited a knee specialist for moderate knee pain when on COBRA in 2003 (and was then told I could walk it off). Not going back??
posted by torokunai at 8:51 AM on September 17 [3 favorites]
Two items the conspiracy crowd loves that I find hilarious:
1) How did he know Trump was going to play golf that day?
How could someone know I had excellent odds of sitting on my porch with a cold beverage around sunset? Things that happen often happen often.
2) If he wasn't tipped off that Trump was going to be there, why would he lie in wait for 12 hours?
If he was tipped off to when, why would he have to wait all morning, like he had no idea when this might happen?
posted by DirtyOldTown at 9:28 AM on September 17 [3 favorites]
1) How did he know Trump was going to play golf that day?
How could someone know I had excellent odds of sitting on my porch with a cold beverage around sunset? Things that happen often happen often.
2) If he wasn't tipped off that Trump was going to be there, why would he lie in wait for 12 hours?
If he was tipped off to when, why would he have to wait all morning, like he had no idea when this might happen?
posted by DirtyOldTown at 9:28 AM on September 17 [3 favorites]
I am ever so slightly less dismissive of the idea of Trump fuckery this time than last, but I'd need amazingly compelling evidence, not just another round of running every factoid through a fevered "There's no other explanation!" filter
posted by DirtyOldTown at 9:35 AM on September 17 [1 favorite]
posted by DirtyOldTown at 9:35 AM on September 17 [1 favorite]
Yesterday, my local newspapers headline was "Shots meant for Trump, FBI says"
Who is lying here? Why is nobody talking about this? Between this and the magical vanishing ear wound, it's getting weird around here.
posted by Sphinx at 9:41 AM on September 17 [2 favorites]
Who is lying here? Why is nobody talking about this? Between this and the magical vanishing ear wound, it's getting weird around here.
posted by Sphinx at 9:41 AM on September 17 [2 favorites]
Yesterday, my local newspapers headline was "Shots meant for Trump, FBI says"
Who is lying here? Why is nobody talking about this? Between this and the magical vanishing ear wound, it's getting weird around here.
Not sure what's so hard to accept here.
Guy with a gun is camped just beside gold course where Trump will eventually pass, the most likely explanation is that he was hoping to see Trump and shot him. The secret service is probably extra vigilant around Trump since the last attempt and from report.
The ear thing was probably exaggerated by Trump as a play to garner sympathy/martyrize himself, he dropped it when it didn't work.
posted by WaterAndPixels at 10:23 AM on September 17 [1 favorite]
Who is lying here? Why is nobody talking about this? Between this and the magical vanishing ear wound, it's getting weird around here.
Not sure what's so hard to accept here.
Guy with a gun is camped just beside gold course where Trump will eventually pass, the most likely explanation is that he was hoping to see Trump and shot him. The secret service is probably extra vigilant around Trump since the last attempt and from report.
The ear thing was probably exaggerated by Trump as a play to garner sympathy/martyrize himself, he dropped it when it didn't work.
posted by WaterAndPixels at 10:23 AM on September 17 [1 favorite]
their goal is empowering the Sheriff to be the local feudal lord overriding all State and Federal reach. Legalized anarchy ...
I assure you that having a "local feudal lord" is completely incompatible with any useful definition of "anarchy".
posted by adrienneleigh at 10:27 AM on September 17 [7 favorites]
I assure you that having a "local feudal lord" is completely incompatible with any useful definition of "anarchy".
posted by adrienneleigh at 10:27 AM on September 17 [7 favorites]
"Shots meant for Trump, FBI says"
Reportedly, members of the Secret Service were the only ones that got off shots that day.
posted by achrise at 11:13 AM on September 17 [3 favorites]
Reportedly, members of the Secret Service were the only ones that got off shots that day.
posted by achrise at 11:13 AM on September 17 [3 favorites]
>"local feudal lord" is completely incompatible with any useful definition of "anarchy"
you need to watch the Mad Max documentaries by George Miller
posted by torokunai at 11:14 AM on September 17 [2 favorites]
you need to watch the Mad Max documentaries by George Miller
posted by torokunai at 11:14 AM on September 17 [2 favorites]
Great. 600 yards away, Trump is coming to town
"Trump’s campaign stop in Flint is his first since an apparent assassination attempt on the former president at his Florida golf course on Sunday, Sept. 15.
Trump is scheduled to participate in what his campaign has described as a town hall-style meeting in Flint.
His visit comes almost eight years to the day that he visited the city in 2016, two months before he was elected president for the first time."
it's literally a circus out there.
posted by clavdivs at 11:27 AM on September 17 [1 favorite]
"Trump’s campaign stop in Flint is his first since an apparent assassination attempt on the former president at his Florida golf course on Sunday, Sept. 15.
Trump is scheduled to participate in what his campaign has described as a town hall-style meeting in Flint.
His visit comes almost eight years to the day that he visited the city in 2016, two months before he was elected president for the first time."
it's literally a circus out there.
posted by clavdivs at 11:27 AM on September 17 [1 favorite]
"Shots meant for Trump, FBI says"
Reportedly, members of the Secret Service were the only ones that got off shots that day.
Presumably the reconciliation of those two statements is not the obvious one.
posted by Horace Rumpole at 11:57 AM on September 17 [14 favorites]
Reportedly, members of the Secret Service were the only ones that got off shots that day.
Presumably the reconciliation of those two statements is not the obvious one.
posted by Horace Rumpole at 11:57 AM on September 17 [14 favorites]
An old friend gave a talk on Shakespeare, acclamation and the nu-Right's resurrection of Carl "Secret Ballots Are Bad" Schmitt, and Corialanus, and another audience member pointed out that Trump's ear bandage constituted his showing of his wounds, which helped me understand why all the dingalings mimicked it.
posted by Rat Spatula at 2:59 PM on September 17
posted by Rat Spatula at 2:59 PM on September 17
it's literally a circus out there. now we just need bread
posted by Jarcat at 3:02 PM on September 17 [1 favorite]
posted by Jarcat at 3:02 PM on September 17 [1 favorite]
Sandusky (Ohio) Register: Accused assassin was MAGA.
An interview with Terry Burton, a Sandusky resident who was volunteer military in Ukraine from 22 to 24 and also a correspondent for The Register. Excerpt:
An interview with Terry Burton, a Sandusky resident who was volunteer military in Ukraine from 22 to 24 and also a correspondent for The Register. Excerpt:
I met Ryan Routh in March 2022. I had just returned from the battle of Ivankiv and was staying in an unnamed building near Independence Square. Ryan was staying on the fourth floor of a building facing the Globus, above a McDonald's.posted by soundguy99 at 3:17 PM on September 17 [16 favorites]
There was a journalist from Taiwan named Danial I befriended staying in the same place. Ryan introduced himself and was very pro-American, to the point of discomfort. He would tell anyone who would listen how the U.S.A. was the greatest country on Earth and how every other nation owed us for their very existence. He made fast enemies of everyone he came in contact with.
He was from Georgia or Tennessee and moved to Hawaii and started a storage business he said he sold to come to Ukraine to offer support. He seemed rudderless in finding a way to help.
He was always talking about how great Donald Trump was and how he was so disappointed that Joe Biden was elected president.
He talked about World War II and how Europe owed the U.S. He was for Trump withdrawing us from NATO. He said Trump will be the savior of Europe... again just like Roosevelt was. He said Jan. 6 was a necessary revolution and he wished he was there.
He and I had a very heated argument as he would wear an American flag or a MAGA flag as a cape as well as having signs made purporting friendship between the U.S. and Ukraine. I was angry as he was bringing attention to the area as there were bounties on the heads of American volunteers by the Russians. He would wander around the area doing weird things like scream chanting 'USA, USA!'
An old friend gave a talk on Shakespeare, acclamation and the nu-Right's resurrection of Carl "Secret Ballots Are Bad" Schmitt, and Corialanus, and another audience member pointed out that Trump's ear bandage constituted his showing of his wounds, which helped me understand why all the dingalings mimicked it.
posted by Rat Spatula at 2:59 PM on September 17 [+] [⚑]
Antony & Cleopatra
Act 4, scene 7.
"I have yet
Room for six scotches more."
Wound-boasting, Jim Beam-style.
That line made me laugh hysterically one very late night of revising for Finals. Maybe you had to be there!
posted by Jody Tresidder at 4:37 PM on September 17
posted by Rat Spatula at 2:59 PM on September 17 [+] [⚑]
Antony & Cleopatra
Act 4, scene 7.
"I have yet
Room for six scotches more."
Wound-boasting, Jim Beam-style.
That line made me laugh hysterically one very late night of revising for Finals. Maybe you had to be there!
posted by Jody Tresidder at 4:37 PM on September 17
Wow, symbioid, that was condescending. I don't know what YOU thought I was commenting on, but it didn't require descriptions of how matter works. Sheesh.
posted by tiny frying pan at 6:45 AM on September 17 [7 favorites +] [⚑]
(Mods please delete if this is "derail")
I wasn't trying to be condescending, but between the people above talking about conspiracy theories and YOU saying "the laws of physics in another universe" (well THAT is condescending to me?) So - I broke it down to be explicitly clear and make sure I left no stone unturned in my explanation, because clearly my first comment was not explained well. Since you seem to think I was somehow talking about "magical light absorbing material invisibility cloak" I was trying to say "no I'm talking about the laws of our universe". And do it in a way that didn't leave more questions or claims of "kookery" towards my post (which is how I read your comment).
Truce? Truce? I wasn't trying to be condescending or insult your intelligence. I was under-clear on the other so I tried to go above and beyond to be very clear lest I get misinterpreted again, to the smallest detail I could think of and in a way that showed I was talking about regular everyday stuff. Maybe if there weren't concerns about paranoid conspiracy theories above, I wouldn't have been as explicit, but since your comment gave to me the vibe of "kookoo weird conspiracy looney bin person" I had to be clear. It was nothing about you particularly or your intelligence. OK? I'm done.
posted by symbioid at 4:46 PM on September 17 [6 favorites]
posted by tiny frying pan at 6:45 AM on September 17 [7 favorites +] [⚑]
(Mods please delete if this is "derail")
I wasn't trying to be condescending, but between the people above talking about conspiracy theories and YOU saying "the laws of physics in another universe" (well THAT is condescending to me?) So - I broke it down to be explicitly clear and make sure I left no stone unturned in my explanation, because clearly my first comment was not explained well. Since you seem to think I was somehow talking about "magical light absorbing material invisibility cloak" I was trying to say "no I'm talking about the laws of our universe". And do it in a way that didn't leave more questions or claims of "kookery" towards my post (which is how I read your comment).
Truce? Truce? I wasn't trying to be condescending or insult your intelligence. I was under-clear on the other so I tried to go above and beyond to be very clear lest I get misinterpreted again, to the smallest detail I could think of and in a way that showed I was talking about regular everyday stuff. Maybe if there weren't concerns about paranoid conspiracy theories above, I wouldn't have been as explicit, but since your comment gave to me the vibe of "kookoo weird conspiracy looney bin person" I had to be clear. It was nothing about you particularly or your intelligence. OK? I'm done.
posted by symbioid at 4:46 PM on September 17 [6 favorites]
YOU saying "the laws of physics in another universe"
I didn't say that.
posted by tiny frying pan at 5:50 PM on September 17 [1 favorite]
I didn't say that.
posted by tiny frying pan at 5:50 PM on September 17 [1 favorite]
kookoo weird conspiracy looney bin person
Yeah...gonna go with my initial assumption you were being condescending. Still are! That's ok, you didn't get what I was saying. But I definitely don't need to clarify now! Lol
posted by tiny frying pan at 5:51 PM on September 17 [1 favorite]
Yeah...gonna go with my initial assumption you were being condescending. Still are! That's ok, you didn't get what I was saying. But I definitely don't need to clarify now! Lol
posted by tiny frying pan at 5:51 PM on September 17 [1 favorite]
Reduced light from chest armor? This sounds like it comes from another universe than which I am familiar.
posted by tiny frying pan at 9:03 PM on September 16
posted by Reverend John at 6:34 PM on September 17 [5 favorites]
posted by tiny frying pan at 9:03 PM on September 16
posted by Reverend John at 6:34 PM on September 17 [5 favorites]
The interpretation of what I said was wrong, and uncharitable as hell but sure keep at it
posted by tiny frying pan at 7:23 PM on September 17 [1 favorite]
posted by tiny frying pan at 7:23 PM on September 17 [1 favorite]
I'm sorry if I'm misinterpreting what you said, but with all honesty and sincerity I don't see another way of interpreting that statement. I'd be open to a different explanation and I apologize in advance if there is a reasonable one.
I would suggest to you that if you think you are being interpreted uncharitably, you may also be doing the same to others right now.
posted by Reverend John at 7:29 PM on September 17 [3 favorites]
I would suggest to you that if you think you are being interpreted uncharitably, you may also be doing the same to others right now.
posted by Reverend John at 7:29 PM on September 17 [3 favorites]
I wasn't talking about physics. At all. I don't feel the need to explain further since this is just being nasty to me for no reason. It might be fun for you but it's really dumb. Goodnight.
posted by tiny frying pan at 7:32 PM on September 17 [1 favorite]
posted by tiny frying pan at 7:32 PM on September 17 [1 favorite]
What is even going on here?
posted by kensington314 at 10:08 PM on September 17 [5 favorites]
posted by kensington314 at 10:08 PM on September 17 [5 favorites]
I wasn't talking about physics
Can you guys go somewhere else if you want to have a fight?
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 10:37 PM on September 17 [4 favorites]
Can you guys go somewhere else if you want to have a fight?
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 10:37 PM on September 17 [4 favorites]
Mod note: Yeah. maybe cut it out, you guys.
posted by goodnewsfortheinsane (staff) at 4:04 AM on September 18 [6 favorites]
posted by goodnewsfortheinsane (staff) at 4:04 AM on September 18 [6 favorites]
From this profile of the suspect: He used to advocate for building houses for the homeless in Honolulu.
It's so interesting that this man that was supportive of the unhoused (even though his work ethics sound shoddy and irresponsible) and of Ukraine also enjoys guns and has the drive to attempt an assassination. I don't like to speculate on anyone's mental health, so I'll say that his life priorities are wildly different from what you would expect.
posted by numaner at 8:12 AM on September 18 [1 favorite]
It's so interesting that this man that was supportive of the unhoused (even though his work ethics sound shoddy and irresponsible) and of Ukraine also enjoys guns and has the drive to attempt an assassination. I don't like to speculate on anyone's mental health, so I'll say that his life priorities are wildly different from what you would expect.
posted by numaner at 8:12 AM on September 18 [1 favorite]
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