John Oliver gets deep and honest about his show and comedy and stuff
September 29, 2024 9:59 AM Subscribe
Lulu Garcia-Nevarro of The New York Times podcast "The Interview" sits down with HBO host John Oliver for about 40 minutes for one of the most honest interviews I've seen from him: John Oliver Is Still Working Through the Rage. There's a depth to this conversation that you might not be expecting. I found it informative and illuminating; perhaps you will too.
Be sure to sit through the end interview that is audio only.
I love the humanity in interviews like this.
Be sure to sit through the end interview that is audio only.
I love the humanity in interviews like this.
This post was deleted for the following reason: Poster's Request -- Brandon Blatcher
I’ve been a fan of John Oliver’s since the early days of the Daily Show and the Bugle, and I’ve read, watched and listened to a lot of interviews with him, but I thought it was really interesting to hear him be put on the defensive and have to think through his discomfort about being told he’s doing journalism.
posted by Kattullus at 10:53 AM on September 29 [7 favorites]
posted by Kattullus at 10:53 AM on September 29 [7 favorites]
I too did not think I could love him more. I love his vulnerability and honesty and self-deprecation. what a wonderful interview.
posted by supermedusa at 10:55 AM on September 29 [1 favorite]
posted by supermedusa at 10:55 AM on September 29 [1 favorite]
"it was really interesting to hear him be put on the defensive and have to think through his discomfort about being told he’s doing journalism."
I wonder if some of that stems from feeling a bit intimidated about being in the NYT headquarters. Also, coming from the UK, Oliver knows that the definition of journalism varies. He doesn't want to be lumped with the NYT or the British version that is, shall we say, not as adverse to questionable ethics like paying for stories.
posted by mygraycatbongo at 11:10 AM on September 29 [4 favorites]
I wonder if some of that stems from feeling a bit intimidated about being in the NYT headquarters. Also, coming from the UK, Oliver knows that the definition of journalism varies. He doesn't want to be lumped with the NYT or the British version that is, shall we say, not as adverse to questionable ethics like paying for stories.
posted by mygraycatbongo at 11:10 AM on September 29 [4 favorites]
I am going to what this, so thank you for the post, but also this is a perfect place to leave his recent Emmy acceptance speech in which he eulogizes his dog, and refuses to be played off stage before he is done doing so.
posted by the primroses were over at 11:13 AM on September 29 [10 favorites]
posted by the primroses were over at 11:13 AM on September 29 [10 favorites]
My favorite bit in it was a very subtle, very sharp burn at the NYT by Oliver:
NYT interviewer to John Oliver: “I’m glad someone’s hiring journalists!”
Oliver: “Unfortunately, it might just be us.”posted by ChrisR at 12:38 PM on September 29 [28 favorites]
I worked at a comedy club for about 8 years, from 2002-2008.
My ability to appreciate comedy as an art form was instilled via HBO and Comedy Central late night before I left my parents home go to college. It was deeply reified during my employ, watching artists use the same setups and words to transmit a message/craft a joke with the varied mutable audience— but the craftsman ship cant be rote— the inauthenticity smacks. To communicate the meta message to different audiences on the back of humor is the trojan horse towards compassion and unity. It also makes mediocore conedians all the more obvious. I , like John, believe that comedy is an incredibly powerful art form, and his respect for it both touches and inspires, because i think his show is doing great work.
posted by MichaelJoelHall at 1:14 PM on September 29 [12 favorites]
My ability to appreciate comedy as an art form was instilled via HBO and Comedy Central late night before I left my parents home go to college. It was deeply reified during my employ, watching artists use the same setups and words to transmit a message/craft a joke with the varied mutable audience— but the craftsman ship cant be rote— the inauthenticity smacks. To communicate the meta message to different audiences on the back of humor is the trojan horse towards compassion and unity. It also makes mediocore conedians all the more obvious. I , like John, believe that comedy is an incredibly powerful art form, and his respect for it both touches and inspires, because i think his show is doing great work.
posted by MichaelJoelHall at 1:14 PM on September 29 [12 favorites]
I haven't had the time yet to watch the interview, but I really love last week tonight and am excited to check it out. I wonder though does he talk about why he thinks what he's doing isn't journalism? Or does he say that he's now resigned that it is long form?
posted by Carillon at 1:46 PM on September 29
posted by Carillon at 1:46 PM on September 29
This is on my list to watch. I think we must get many of the same recommendations. I love and admire him but prefer to stay away from infuriating topics these days so don't often listen to his show. He was a gem in Community, being completely himself.
posted by Glinn at 1:49 PM on September 29 [1 favorite]
posted by Glinn at 1:49 PM on September 29 [1 favorite]
My favorite bit in it was a very unsubtle, very sharp question at Oliver by Garcia-Nevarro, "Do you know what else it's like?"
So arch, so acid, thank you.
posted by Rat Spatula at 1:58 PM on September 29 [4 favorites]
So arch, so acid, thank you.
posted by Rat Spatula at 1:58 PM on September 29 [4 favorites]
does he talk about why he thinks what he's doing isn't journalism?
“comedy is the way i handle the world [:] i still find myself compelled to make jokes either to take the weight off some of what’s happening or to sometimes to feel what’s happening a bit more. i find people employing comedy at moment of tragedy incredibly meaningful”
posted by HearHere at 2:49 PM on September 29 [2 favorites]
“comedy is the way i handle the world [:] i still find myself compelled to make jokes either to take the weight off some of what’s happening or to sometimes to feel what’s happening a bit more. i find people employing comedy at moment of tragedy incredibly meaningful”
posted by HearHere at 2:49 PM on September 29 [2 favorites]
once again, the nyt creates "politics" as entertainment, and so the entertainer is pushed to be the informative one.
nyt constantly pushing trump, as well, it's a weird disease they have
Oliver: "How would you not be [angry]? Unless you were a sociopath..."
NYT: nods...blinks....
posted by eustatic at 3:11 PM on September 29 [11 favorites]
nyt constantly pushing trump, as well, it's a weird disease they have
Oliver: "How would you not be [angry]? Unless you were a sociopath..."
NYT: nods...blinks....
posted by eustatic at 3:11 PM on September 29 [11 favorites]
I mean, the reason LWT is not journalism is because they are not constantly sucking up to people in power
posted by eustatic at 3:45 PM on September 29 [10 favorites]
posted by eustatic at 3:45 PM on September 29 [10 favorites]
I do wonder if part of John's reluctance to identify his work as journalism - and Jon Stewart's similar reluctance before him - is a reluctance to be identified with the failings of journalists and modern media.
posted by ElKevbo at 3:58 PM on September 29 [5 favorites]
posted by ElKevbo at 3:58 PM on September 29 [5 favorites]
I wonder though does he talk about why he thinks what he's doing isn't journalism?
I haven't made it through the entire thing, but he at one point tries to make the point (paraphrasing) "I'm interested in the comedy, and being right about the facts is absolutely necessary because it's the foundation for the comedy." Which, on one hand, sure. If you made a bunch of jokes based off of made-up premises it's probably undercut by the discovery you were lying. Although I don't know that if a stand-up tells a joke based on a made-up conversation with their spouse, say, it's any less funny due to the fiction. Lots of fiction is funny.
On the other hand, I definitely don't totally buy the "aw shucks I'm just a comedian" line either. As a consumer I don't watch the show because it's funny. I watch it because it's interesting, in part because the part of its function that is more-or-less "here's a deep dive into a problem with society" is something you can't get just anywhere else. The funny helps take the edge off, but the show is aware that that's the (or a) function of the comedy. It chides itself for being "Sad John's Stuff You Probably Would Rather Not Know Show" or words to that rough effect. Inasmuch as it's a choice to present "here's a deep dive into a fucked up aspect of the world" it's doing the basic function journalism, which is to say, informing the public of something they would otherwise not know. If you have to call yourself "just a comedian" to avoid a culture war, I get it, but like... I see you. You're not just a comedian.
posted by axiom at 4:06 PM on September 29 [7 favorites]
I haven't made it through the entire thing, but he at one point tries to make the point (paraphrasing) "I'm interested in the comedy, and being right about the facts is absolutely necessary because it's the foundation for the comedy." Which, on one hand, sure. If you made a bunch of jokes based off of made-up premises it's probably undercut by the discovery you were lying. Although I don't know that if a stand-up tells a joke based on a made-up conversation with their spouse, say, it's any less funny due to the fiction. Lots of fiction is funny.
On the other hand, I definitely don't totally buy the "aw shucks I'm just a comedian" line either. As a consumer I don't watch the show because it's funny. I watch it because it's interesting, in part because the part of its function that is more-or-less "here's a deep dive into a problem with society" is something you can't get just anywhere else. The funny helps take the edge off, but the show is aware that that's the (or a) function of the comedy. It chides itself for being "Sad John's Stuff You Probably Would Rather Not Know Show" or words to that rough effect. Inasmuch as it's a choice to present "here's a deep dive into a fucked up aspect of the world" it's doing the basic function journalism, which is to say, informing the public of something they would otherwise not know. If you have to call yourself "just a comedian" to avoid a culture war, I get it, but like... I see you. You're not just a comedian.
posted by axiom at 4:06 PM on September 29 [7 favorites]
It's a great interview. My take is it's not a journalism/comedy dichotomy, it's journalism plus jokes. I can see why he'd be uncomfortable with that, and he can keep on denying it as far as I am concerned if it means we get to keep having him, treasure that he is.
posted by SNACKeR at 4:32 PM on September 29
posted by SNACKeR at 4:32 PM on September 29
I think it's possible to read his focus as the comedy being, not just the hard work of making awful things funny, but the difficulty of the craft of comedy itself. I think there is some reluctance to call his work journalism because journalists should be the one doing that, and what they're doing is already hard enough.
I've also noticed that much of the research that the show does is second-order, or third-order: they find the work that others have done, piece it together, and make persuasive arguments based on it. They don't have the personpower to do first-order research, which they might consider to be a thing they should leave to real journalists.
posted by JHarris at 4:34 PM on September 29 [11 favorites]
I've also noticed that much of the research that the show does is second-order, or third-order: they find the work that others have done, piece it together, and make persuasive arguments based on it. They don't have the personpower to do first-order research, which they might consider to be a thing they should leave to real journalists.
posted by JHarris at 4:34 PM on September 29 [11 favorites]
I grew up with Mad magazine. Yes, it was funny. Very funny. But at the same time it inculcated in me a deeply held distrust of advertising, politicians, figures of authority, etc. Comedy can be a very powerful way to get information across. I laugh, so that I may not cry. Laughing can be power. It puts you into a position of strength, where you can now do something. A lot of times, I sort of cringe at the jokes on Oliver’s show. But after watching this, I can let them pass, as I still learn so much from everything else. As a society though, where, oh where have the satirists gone, long time passing?
posted by njohnson23 at 4:36 PM on September 29 [16 favorites]
posted by njohnson23 at 4:36 PM on September 29 [16 favorites]
@axiom
Probably "Sad Zazu's Mildly Interesting Explain Train".
posted by Nec_variat_lux_fracta_colorem at 4:46 PM on September 29 [4 favorites]
Probably "Sad Zazu's Mildly Interesting Explain Train".
posted by Nec_variat_lux_fracta_colorem at 4:46 PM on September 29 [4 favorites]
I think it's more that, as he makes clear in this interview, he and his staff aren't producing original reporting. Their work is one of compiling the journalistic (and sometimes also work of historians) labor of other people, and their craft/expertise is in the ability to do good secondary research and then figure out how to package/distill it in a way that is accurate and also at least somewhat entertaining. I'd say it's a new genre of journalism, in that is is fundamentally committed to accuracy and research, and of course lots of news articles are just repackaging the reporting of others, but I get why he'd feel compelled to make a distinction. It's pretty clearly (based on the interview) out of respect for the work of journalists doing the original reporting that he and his team relies on.
posted by coffeecat at 4:55 PM on September 29 [18 favorites]
posted by coffeecat at 4:55 PM on September 29 [18 favorites]
Also, if people enjoy her interview style, you might like her previous podcast (also interviews) First Person.
posted by coffeecat at 4:56 PM on September 29 [2 favorites]
posted by coffeecat at 4:56 PM on September 29 [2 favorites]
I didn't care for her interview style at all. There was too much glancing at the laptop, more waiting than listening. Her tone was too interrogative, like she was grilling a politician. Oliver was great but I could understand why he looked a little tense. She was lobbing questions like they were playing tennis. And I hated her unfunny 'joke' that he looked like he was having a painful bowel movement. Rude as fuck.
posted by mygraycatbongo at 5:09 PM on September 29 [4 favorites]
posted by mygraycatbongo at 5:09 PM on September 29 [4 favorites]
I hated her unfunny 'joke' that he looked like he was having a painful bowel movement. Rude as fuck.
He seemed to enjoy it (the joke, not the painful bowel movement).
posted by senor biggles at 5:26 PM on September 29 [2 favorites]
He seemed to enjoy it (the joke, not the painful bowel movement).
posted by senor biggles at 5:26 PM on September 29 [2 favorites]
BTW, for the tl;dw crowd: one fact that pops up later in the interview is that HBO is adding a full four-day delay to posting new LWT episode content to YouTube.
posted by senor biggles at 5:29 PM on September 29 [5 favorites]
posted by senor biggles at 5:29 PM on September 29 [5 favorites]
I also did not care for the interview style, and particularly the implication that the bias inherent in the show by merely having a point of view meant that she saw him as an "opinion columnist". John Oliver was not pleased with that either, and it seemed very much like Well as a New York Times Person I Do Not Think You Are a Journalist. Then when John later says "I am not a journalist; I did not train as a journalist" and Garcia-Nevarro responds with "don't you think, like, saying that you're not a journalist or not acting as a journalist allows you to elide some of the accountability of journalism?" Coming right after Oliver spent a significant amount of time talking about all the checking and double checking being done by their twelve fact checkers, it sounded like she was just waiting for him to finish so she could hit him with a zinger. It had such a NYT point of view to it: if you make an argument, you're an "opinion columnist"; if you point out all the verified, objective material you report then you must be a "journalist"; and if you (reasonably) claim otherwise because you didn't go to J-school, then you must be trying to "evade responsibility" for the material you produce. John Oliver was so bothered by this he brings it up again when they check in later, pointing out that Garcia-Nevarro gave him the impression that she'd be annoyed if he called himself a "journalist", and she responds "I think there is this sort of dissonance that happens when journalists like myself are engaging with this- we're curious about how you view yourself." Like who fucking cares? Journalists I guess, but maybe there's more pressing issues to care about than whether a comedian calls himself a "journalist"?
posted by oneirodynia at 5:38 PM on September 29 [19 favorites]
posted by oneirodynia at 5:38 PM on September 29 [19 favorites]
BTW, for the tl;dw crowd: one fact that pops up later in the interview is that HBO is adding a full four-day delay to posting new LWT episode content to YouTube.
Yeah, that started with the beginning of this season, unless they're adding another four day delay soon/now.
posted by JHarris at 5:59 PM on September 29 [4 favorites]
Yeah, that started with the beginning of this season, unless they're adding another four day delay soon/now.
posted by JHarris at 5:59 PM on September 29 [4 favorites]
By the way, this interview was published in print form, too (though condensed by some amount).
I'd read it without realizing it was also presented in audio and video formats at all, and -- in the text-only context -- I remember being particularly surprised at one of the interviewer's responses leading with what read to me as a super flat/dismissive "OK." before immediately changing the topic. (You can search the text version for "Do you remember" if you want to see the context there.)
Sifting through to find that spot in the youtube video now, it's at around 29min in, and it turns out the original is a much more thoughtful "Hmm..." followed by a perfectly polite "to get back to a point I wanted to make..."!
posted by nobody at 6:20 PM on September 29 [5 favorites]
I'd read it without realizing it was also presented in audio and video formats at all, and -- in the text-only context -- I remember being particularly surprised at one of the interviewer's responses leading with what read to me as a super flat/dismissive "OK." before immediately changing the topic. (You can search the text version for "Do you remember" if you want to see the context there.)
Sifting through to find that spot in the youtube video now, it's at around 29min in, and it turns out the original is a much more thoughtful "Hmm..." followed by a perfectly polite "to get back to a point I wanted to make..."!
posted by nobody at 6:20 PM on September 29 [5 favorites]
(Oh, I should have added: the context there was specifically the journalism vs op-ed vs comedy discussion that oneirodynia referred to a couple comments above, so it was a particularly delicate spot for what to my eye read as such a dismissive response.)
posted by nobody at 6:27 PM on September 29 [1 favorite]
posted by nobody at 6:27 PM on September 29 [1 favorite]
coffeecat: "I think it's more that, as he makes clear in this interview, he and his staff aren't producing original reporting. Their work is one of compiling the journalistic (and sometimes also work of historians) labor of other people, and their craft/expertise is in the ability to do good secondary research and then figure out how to package/distill it in a way that is accurate and also at least somewhat entertaining."
Yeah, it feels wrong to call the show an indictment of or replacement for modern journalism when most of it is riffing on or recapping clips from Frontline, local news reports, various documentaries, etc.
posted by Rhaomi at 6:42 PM on September 29 [4 favorites]
Yeah, it feels wrong to call the show an indictment of or replacement for modern journalism when most of it is riffing on or recapping clips from Frontline, local news reports, various documentaries, etc.
posted by Rhaomi at 6:42 PM on September 29 [4 favorites]
where, oh where have the satirists gone, long time passing?
points in case, the onion, mcsweeney's, some other unmentioned places...
posted by HearHere at 7:01 PM on September 29 [5 favorites]
points in case, the onion, mcsweeney's, some other unmentioned places...
posted by HearHere at 7:01 PM on September 29 [5 favorites]
points in case, the onion, mcsweeney's, some other unmentioned places...
A year ago, I'd have said The Needling is like The Onion, but Seattle-specific and not as good.
Now, I'd say The Needling is like The Onion, but Seattle-specific and better.
posted by gurple at 7:51 PM on September 29 [2 favorites]
A year ago, I'd have said The Needling is like The Onion, but Seattle-specific and not as good.
Now, I'd say The Needling is like The Onion, but Seattle-specific and better.
posted by gurple at 7:51 PM on September 29 [2 favorites]
This is a nice interview, thanks for posting it hippybear!
I did (do?) the recaps for Fanfare on Last Week Tonight, but it's been a challenging year, and the style of recaps I've done take a little while to put together. I just want to emphasize, I don't think I have any ownership over the LWT recaps here! If anyone else wants to do recaps please go ahead, right now it's difficult for me to keep up with them.
posted by JHarris at 9:42 PM on September 29 [1 favorite]
I did (do?) the recaps for Fanfare on Last Week Tonight, but it's been a challenging year, and the style of recaps I've done take a little while to put together. I just want to emphasize, I don't think I have any ownership over the LWT recaps here! If anyone else wants to do recaps please go ahead, right now it's difficult for me to keep up with them.
posted by JHarris at 9:42 PM on September 29 [1 favorite]
Yeah the part where she likened LWT to an opinion columnist was galling. I was amazed he didn't react more strongly at that because I couldn't help myself. Given what opinion columnists are allowed to get away with - even at NYT - when it comes to playing fast and loose with facts just makes it worse.
I think whether LWT counts as journalism feels like pointless inside baseball semantics. I have never bothered to think about it before and while it is mildly interesting to consider why I don't consider it journalism (I think I have decided that their reliance on secondary sources is the most important distinction) it also doesn't seem like it was worth focusing on to that extent.
posted by Nec_variat_lux_fracta_colorem at 10:19 PM on September 29 [5 favorites]
I think whether LWT counts as journalism feels like pointless inside baseball semantics. I have never bothered to think about it before and while it is mildly interesting to consider why I don't consider it journalism (I think I have decided that their reliance on secondary sources is the most important distinction) it also doesn't seem like it was worth focusing on to that extent.
posted by Nec_variat_lux_fracta_colorem at 10:19 PM on September 29 [5 favorites]
Tag yourselves. I'm the astonished and possibly jealous look on her face when he explains how many fact-checkers they have.
posted by rum-soaked space hobo at 3:04 AM on September 30 [5 favorites]
posted by rum-soaked space hobo at 3:04 AM on September 30 [5 favorites]
The only downside of John's success with LWT is that he had to step down from the Bugle. The Bugle is still the funniest podcast I listen to, but sometimes I really miss John's exasperation when Andy goes on another pun-run.
posted by Pendragon at 11:03 AM on September 30 [4 favorites]
posted by Pendragon at 11:03 AM on September 30 [4 favorites]
Hippybear FPPs are great FPPs.
posted by A Terrible Llama at 2:38 PM on September 30 [3 favorites]
posted by A Terrible Llama at 2:38 PM on September 30 [3 favorites]
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posted by mygraycatbongo at 10:35 AM on September 29 [8 favorites]