🤣🤣🤣🤣🤦♀️🤙amirite, girls? 🤙🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️
October 29, 2024 2:23 PM Subscribe
The clip does not live up to the hype, however true it may be. But the article at least started out OK-ish, but then this flub: "diffuses" - and I'm out.
posted by davidmsc at 2:38 PM on October 29 [1 favorite]
posted by davidmsc at 2:38 PM on October 29 [1 favorite]
Well isn't that just a perfect set of opening comments right there. I'd lol, but I'm tired.
posted by phunniemee at 2:42 PM on October 29 [61 favorites]
posted by phunniemee at 2:42 PM on October 29 [61 favorites]
I had not seen this/heard about this previously, and the second after Saoirse Ronan's comment is truly priceless. Enjoyed reading the opinion piece as well. Thanks for posting!
posted by bigendian at 2:45 PM on October 29 [4 favorites]
posted by bigendian at 2:45 PM on October 29 [4 favorites]
Oh no, a spelling error in a newspaper that is so famous for spelling errors it is literally a long running joke in British culture, but by all means, lets not read what a woman has to say about men's ability to understand women's perspective because it contains a typo. JFC.
posted by jacquilynne at 2:47 PM on October 29 [101 favorites]
posted by jacquilynne at 2:47 PM on October 29 [101 favorites]
I'm slightly bummed she let them off the hook so easily, even if it's understandable (Graham Norton's show is light entertainment, not a hard-hitting news show, after all) but that second-or-so's heavily awkward silence spoke volumes.
posted by pdb at 3:30 PM on October 29 [3 favorites]
posted by pdb at 3:30 PM on October 29 [3 favorites]
That is a great clip!
posted by Gorgik at 3:40 PM on October 29 [1 favorite]
posted by Gorgik at 3:40 PM on October 29 [1 favorite]
I'm slightly bummed she let them off the hook so easily
I have thought about that a lot today, and ultimately, I think it was perfectly done. I get the desire to have her do more, but that's exactly the point where women get called shrewish harpies who don't know how to be fun. She said the thing, she let it land for just long enough to be really fucking awkward and then she invited everyone to laugh.
posted by jacquilynne at 3:43 PM on October 29 [40 favorites]
I have thought about that a lot today, and ultimately, I think it was perfectly done. I get the desire to have her do more, but that's exactly the point where women get called shrewish harpies who don't know how to be fun. She said the thing, she let it land for just long enough to be really fucking awkward and then she invited everyone to laugh.
posted by jacquilynne at 3:43 PM on October 29 [40 favorites]
Double shakas needs to be the new sign for “well I wish we could talk about this for real but can’t get blood from a stone in this crowd, take over, internet .”
posted by q*ben at 4:17 PM on October 29 [8 favorites]
posted by q*ben at 4:17 PM on October 29 [8 favorites]
Double shakas needs to be the new sign for
tHeRe'S a TyPoOo 🤙amirite ladies??🤙
posted by phunniemee at 4:18 PM on October 29 [25 favorites]
tHeRe'S a TyPoOo 🤙amirite ladies??🤙
posted by phunniemee at 4:18 PM on October 29 [25 favorites]
but then this flub: "diffuses" - and I'm out
A flub?
posted by Thella at 4:22 PM on October 29 [21 favorites]
A flub?
this chat-icide bomb is hilariously mesmerising, as is the sudden silence, which is split-second but also seems to last 27 years. Ronan obligingly diffuses [scatter, to break up and distribute,] it by provoking audience applause with a rallying, “amirite ladies?”You say tomato, I say well, actually...
posted by Thella at 4:22 PM on October 29 [21 favorites]
It's pretty clear they meant to defuse "this chat-icide bomb," but it's also pretty clear this was an editorial error (does the Guardian even have copy editors?) and doesn't detract from the article as a whole.
posted by Pedantzilla at 4:37 PM on October 29 [11 favorites]
posted by Pedantzilla at 4:37 PM on October 29 [11 favorites]
(Eh, I think the intent is ambiguous and it's fine - I read it as diffusing, not defusing, "the sudden silence" and only just now noticed "bomb" as a possible referent for "it".)
Anyway, I have been thinking a lot about how spreading political fear of "others" doing bad things to you is so ridiculously effective, when half of us have dealt with a much more realistic possibility of violence from the other half for most of our lives.
posted by trig at 4:58 PM on October 29 [9 favorites]
Anyway, I have been thinking a lot about how spreading political fear of "others" doing bad things to you is so ridiculously effective, when half of us have dealt with a much more realistic possibility of violence from the other half for most of our lives.
posted by trig at 4:58 PM on October 29 [9 favorites]
Thanks for this article. It's interesting to see that things a women/person thinks about to protect themself are still jokes in the minds of people who've never had to think about that.
posted by Art_Pot at 5:21 PM on October 29 [10 favorites]
posted by Art_Pot at 5:21 PM on October 29 [10 favorites]
I cannot believe that SNL clip for many reasons but it ALSO shows a woman holding keys between each knuckle as defense and do NOT do this, because one squeeze of your whole hand will hurt a lot - hold ONE key and go for the EYES
And YES AS YOU CAN SEE femme-presenting people have A LOT TO THINK ABOUT all while being laughed at so that's FUNNNN
posted by tiny frying pan at 5:30 PM on October 29 [14 favorites]
And YES AS YOU CAN SEE femme-presenting people have A LOT TO THINK ABOUT all while being laughed at so that's FUNNNN
posted by tiny frying pan at 5:30 PM on October 29 [14 favorites]
I hadn’t seen this and she’s perfect. Men need to be reminded all the time, as much as possible that everyday common events for them could be critical or fatal events for women. What a world, ugh.
posted by ashbury at 5:55 PM on October 29 [10 favorites]
posted by ashbury at 5:55 PM on October 29 [10 favorites]
Men (not all men) always think that Women are over-exaggerating the misogyny Women consistently marinate in as part of being alive.
This is why Men (not all men) always experience such shock if they get to glimpse what life is like when other men think you're Female.
This video about "What it's really like to be a Woman in Gaming exposed men to a few seconds, and you can see the effect.
Video is from 2023, 1 min and 44 seconds and contains upsetting misogynistic language
posted by Faintdreams at 5:59 PM on October 29 [9 favorites]
This is why Men (not all men) always experience such shock if they get to glimpse what life is like when other men think you're Female.
This video about "What it's really like to be a Woman in Gaming exposed men to a few seconds, and you can see the effect.
Video is from 2023, 1 min and 44 seconds and contains upsetting misogynistic language
posted by Faintdreams at 5:59 PM on October 29 [9 favorites]
I was listening to a podcast recently (Kill List, not bad) and the guy finds himself in the position of telling a woman that someone has paid for a hit on her (to a fake hitman website). She responds with a shrug and "oh, that'll be my husband, we've been divorcing for three years and it sounds like something he'd do."
And he is utterly flabbergasted by how matter-of-fact she is about it. And, like, I guess he hadn't talked to women about this sort of thing before, ever?
posted by BungaDunga at 7:44 PM on October 29 [3 favorites]
And he is utterly flabbergasted by how matter-of-fact she is about it. And, like, I guess he hadn't talked to women about this sort of thing before, ever?
posted by BungaDunga at 7:44 PM on October 29 [3 favorites]
That was really great. They overrode her the first time, but she would not be denied!
Men (not all men) always think that Women are over-exaggerating the misogyny Women consistently marinate in as part of being alive.
I believe most women underplay the barrage of misogyny they face every day because we require that from them, and many don’t even admit it to themselves because they might not be able to go out the door if they did. I would be one of those women who found it hard to go out the door.
posted by jamjam at 8:30 PM on October 29 [5 favorites]
Men (not all men) always think that Women are over-exaggerating the misogyny Women consistently marinate in as part of being alive.
I believe most women underplay the barrage of misogyny they face every day because we require that from them, and many don’t even admit it to themselves because they might not be able to go out the door if they did. I would be one of those women who found it hard to go out the door.
posted by jamjam at 8:30 PM on October 29 [5 favorites]
Can't defuse a bomb that's just gone off.
posted by flabdablet at 10:43 PM on October 29 [8 favorites]
posted by flabdablet at 10:43 PM on October 29 [8 favorites]
i saw it linked on the blue a while back, but does anyone remember a webcomic (penny arcade?) about all the things a woman has to arm herself with -- whistle, pepper spray -- before leaving the house, versus a guy who just walks out? i think in the last panel she has her keys sticking out between her fingers.
posted by kliuless at 10:43 PM on October 29 [1 favorite]
posted by kliuless at 10:43 PM on October 29 [1 favorite]
Can't defuse a bomb that's just gone off.
Ha, too true! It's not a perfect metaphor -- really more of a play on words...?
does anyone remember a webcomic...
I have a vague recollection of seeing that, probably remember less than you do about it, but can confirm.
posted by Pedantzilla at 11:12 PM on October 29
Ha, too true! It's not a perfect metaphor -- really more of a play on words...?
does anyone remember a webcomic...
I have a vague recollection of seeing that, probably remember less than you do about it, but can confirm.
posted by Pedantzilla at 11:12 PM on October 29
In the wake of Sarah Everard's murder, street art stickers and posters appeared all over London with the following text:
Headphones in, no music on.
Don't drink too much.
Wear a skirt, but take trousers for the walk.
Call someone so you aren't 'alone'.
Have fun, but keep one eye always on your drink.
Walk the long way home because it's better lit.
Does the 'keys between your fingers' thing really work?
Is this taxi really safe?
Is he really walking that close?
Trust the police!
WE ARE EXHAUSTED AND STILL DON'T FEEL SAFE.
You can see a picture of the sticker if you scroll down here (self-link).
posted by Paul Slade at 12:41 AM on October 30 [14 favorites]
Headphones in, no music on.
Don't drink too much.
Wear a skirt, but take trousers for the walk.
Call someone so you aren't 'alone'.
Have fun, but keep one eye always on your drink.
Walk the long way home because it's better lit.
Does the 'keys between your fingers' thing really work?
Is this taxi really safe?
Is he really walking that close?
Trust the police!
WE ARE EXHAUSTED AND STILL DON'T FEEL SAFE.
You can see a picture of the sticker if you scroll down here (self-link).
posted by Paul Slade at 12:41 AM on October 30 [14 favorites]
This is not misogyny, is just an enormous honking blind spot that all men seem to have to some degree. And we do need to keep pointing it out because there are plenty of men open to learning but just need to be exposed to the concept. Here's an experience I've had with my partner twice (until I sat him down and explained what sorts of things make me feel unsafe on a street) and he's a short guy who experienced bullying as a kid, so you'd think maybe he'd have better spidey senses for this sort of thing but:
We're walking down the street at night and a group of drunk young men is walking towards us. I pull his hand in the direction of the other side of the street and try to start heading off that direction and he slows down (no!!) and asks "what's up?" (no!! I can't explain it because they'll overhear and why are we walking slower now this will only prolong our being in their direct vicinity?!!) He gets it now, but it had to be pointed out.
And dear native English speakers: you do not own the English language anymore. The whole world now learns English, and that means you have the privilege of being understood nearly anywhere you travel. But the price is you need to let the grammar and spelling rules go. ESPECIALLY the spelling rules because English has the most atrocious spelling on the planet (native speaker with a perfect verbal score on the ACT here and I just had to look up how to spell atrocious). I taught English in Japan and they just learn how to spell words like they're learning kanji -- memorize each word. That's how bad our spelling is. I live in Europe now and while nearly everyone here speaks English, it's frequently very flawed English, but we all understand each other just fine. Let it go and just enjoy your privilege.
posted by antinomia at 3:11 AM on October 30 [12 favorites]
We're walking down the street at night and a group of drunk young men is walking towards us. I pull his hand in the direction of the other side of the street and try to start heading off that direction and he slows down (no!!) and asks "what's up?" (no!! I can't explain it because they'll overhear and why are we walking slower now this will only prolong our being in their direct vicinity?!!) He gets it now, but it had to be pointed out.
And dear native English speakers: you do not own the English language anymore. The whole world now learns English, and that means you have the privilege of being understood nearly anywhere you travel. But the price is you need to let the grammar and spelling rules go. ESPECIALLY the spelling rules because English has the most atrocious spelling on the planet (native speaker with a perfect verbal score on the ACT here and I just had to look up how to spell atrocious). I taught English in Japan and they just learn how to spell words like they're learning kanji -- memorize each word. That's how bad our spelling is. I live in Europe now and while nearly everyone here speaks English, it's frequently very flawed English, but we all understand each other just fine. Let it go and just enjoy your privilege.
posted by antinomia at 3:11 AM on October 30 [12 favorites]
I cannot believe that SNL clip for many reasons but it ALSO shows a woman holding keys between each knuckle as defense and do NOT do this, because one squeeze of your whole hand will hurt a lot
It's an SNL sketch, friend, it's not supposed to be a self-defense seminar.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 3:28 AM on October 30 [2 favorites]
It's an SNL sketch, friend, it's not supposed to be a self-defense seminar.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 3:28 AM on October 30 [2 favorites]
A shout for Marina Hyde the author of the Guardian piece. Her two-hander podcast with Richard Osman The Rest is Entertainment has been running for a year now at Goalhanger or wherever you get your podcasts. In my bubble I don't care two ticks about popular culture, but find TRIE's informed discussion addictive.
I did wonder last week whether Osman's word-count is bigger than Hyde's. If he's overtalking her, patriarchal me wouldn't have the most sensitive ear. But it is a question that existing transcripts make amenable to quantitative analysis.
posted by BobTheScientist at 3:51 AM on October 30 [6 favorites]
I did wonder last week whether Osman's word-count is bigger than Hyde's. If he's overtalking her, patriarchal me wouldn't have the most sensitive ear. But it is a question that existing transcripts make amenable to quantitative analysis.
posted by BobTheScientist at 3:51 AM on October 30 [6 favorites]
It's an SNL sketch, friend, it's not supposed to be a self-defense seminar.
If this is true then how come I have shark repellent by my front door.
posted by phunniemee at 4:05 AM on October 30 [23 favorites]
If this is true then how come I have shark repellent by my front door.
posted by phunniemee at 4:05 AM on October 30 [23 favorites]
This is not misogyny, is just an enormous honking blind spot that all men seem to have to some degree.
Those blind spots is one of the ways misogyny expresses: not considering the perspectives of women, not practicing the same kind of empathy as with men. The end result is women's perspectives not being considered, which is one part of systemic sexism/misogyny.
And dear native English speakers: you do not own the English language anymore. The whole world now learns English, and that means you have the privilege of being understood nearly anywhere you travel. But the price is you need to let the grammar and spelling rules go. ESPECIALLY the spelling rules
This would be fair if we were talking about something other than a British newspaper addressing a British audience, in an article written by a naive English-speaking Brit who read English at an oxbridge college. This isn't an international English variant issue. (The mistake is also not necessarily a big deal, but that line of argument just isn't relevant here.)
posted by Dysk at 4:18 AM on October 30 [15 favorites]
Those blind spots is one of the ways misogyny expresses: not considering the perspectives of women, not practicing the same kind of empathy as with men. The end result is women's perspectives not being considered, which is one part of systemic sexism/misogyny.
And dear native English speakers: you do not own the English language anymore. The whole world now learns English, and that means you have the privilege of being understood nearly anywhere you travel. But the price is you need to let the grammar and spelling rules go. ESPECIALLY the spelling rules
This would be fair if we were talking about something other than a British newspaper addressing a British audience, in an article written by a naive English-speaking Brit who read English at an oxbridge college. This isn't an international English variant issue. (The mistake is also not necessarily a big deal, but that line of argument just isn't relevant here.)
posted by Dysk at 4:18 AM on October 30 [15 favorites]
I’ve noticed the defuse/diffuse thing sliding hard over the past decade or so. Technically it could work to “diffuse the situation,” but I think a generation ago it was well understood to be “defuse.” That pair, like “reticent”/“reluctant,” is a collapsing twin star — only one word is going to win.
posted by argybarg at 4:33 AM on October 30 [8 favorites]
posted by argybarg at 4:33 AM on October 30 [8 favorites]
Last year there was a discussion about women's safety here in my city, and the absolute amount of men who: a) couldn't grok the math all women do about how they go about their day in hopes of being okay, and b) who were insistent that men face the same threats as women do, was astounding. Not surprising, but still the amount of disbelief to which we have to clock strangers/parking lots/etc was astounding. I mean, I'd like to not want yeet all men into the sun but sometimes the possibility is very appetizing.
posted by Kitteh at 5:01 AM on October 30 [10 favorites]
posted by Kitteh at 5:01 AM on October 30 [10 favorites]
I'm listening to Know My Name by Chanel Miller right now and there's a part where she talks about the casual street harassment she encountered every day. That she started capturing it on video and sending it to her long distance boyfriend, so that he'd understand.
Her boyfriend (who she cares about! and likes! and describes as a wonderful person) told her he didn't like it, and would pay for her to rent a car so she doesn't have to walk home anymore. She likes her walks, she said, they're good for her. She doesn't want to rent a car. So her boyfriend told her to stop sending him videos if she's not going to do anything about it. And she said no, you don't get to unsubscribe from this. It's my life, and I need you to understand.
Anyway, I felt that.
posted by phunniemee at 5:19 AM on October 30 [41 favorites]
Her boyfriend (who she cares about! and likes! and describes as a wonderful person) told her he didn't like it, and would pay for her to rent a car so she doesn't have to walk home anymore. She likes her walks, she said, they're good for her. She doesn't want to rent a car. So her boyfriend told her to stop sending him videos if she's not going to do anything about it. And she said no, you don't get to unsubscribe from this. It's my life, and I need you to understand.
Anyway, I felt that.
posted by phunniemee at 5:19 AM on October 30 [41 favorites]
Does the 'keys between your fingers' thing really work?
No. It does not. It is actually more dangerous for you to do that. I mention this every time it comes up.
It's an SNL sketch, friend, it's not supposed to be a self-defense seminar.
posted by EmpressCallipygos
Oh I know, friend, I hate SNL. Strange you don't see any value in correcting misinformation, which is my goal.
posted by tiny frying pan at 5:35 AM on October 30 [7 favorites]
No. It does not. It is actually more dangerous for you to do that. I mention this every time it comes up.
It's an SNL sketch, friend, it's not supposed to be a self-defense seminar.
posted by EmpressCallipygos
Oh I know, friend, I hate SNL. Strange you don't see any value in correcting misinformation, which is my goal.
posted by tiny frying pan at 5:35 AM on October 30 [7 favorites]
"I cannot believe that SNL clip for many reasons but it ALSO shows a woman holding keys between each knuckle as defense and do NOT do this, because one squeeze of your whole hand will hurt a lot - hold ONE key and go for the EYES"
The way I was taught is you have to get a big sturdy key *ring* to hold the keys. You place the ring in your palm so the edge is caught by the back edge of your palm when your fingers are folded over the keys between your fingers. I've punched semi-solid surfaces and had the keys penetrate a good distance and the force just gets transmitted to the whole hand wo hurting my hand at all.
posted by aleph at 5:45 AM on October 30 [2 favorites]
The way I was taught is you have to get a big sturdy key *ring* to hold the keys. You place the ring in your palm so the edge is caught by the back edge of your palm when your fingers are folded over the keys between your fingers. I've punched semi-solid surfaces and had the keys penetrate a good distance and the force just gets transmitted to the whole hand wo hurting my hand at all.
posted by aleph at 5:45 AM on October 30 [2 favorites]
edit: Also go for the eyes (if you're in that kind of fight)
posted by aleph at 5:54 AM on October 30 [1 favorite]
posted by aleph at 5:54 AM on October 30 [1 favorite]
edit2: the keys are *flat* between your fingers.
posted by aleph at 5:58 AM on October 30 [1 favorite]
posted by aleph at 5:58 AM on October 30 [1 favorite]
PERFECTION, Saoirse. I could keep this on replay all day.
I'm in my invisible woman phase at the moment which is a nice refresher from the constant harassment that was out there when I was in my teens-40s. Now I get to look forward to my 'elderly easy victim' phase ahead.
Keys between fingers LOOKS intimidating, which is sometimes half the battle, y'know? It is better than nothing and most of the experts saying it's dangerous are either selling other self-defense products or running self-defense classes. And I'd rather have multiple keys going into my assailant's eye and hurting my hand than being dead with an intact hand.
My one weird trick for being 'prepared' is to use city shop windows' reflections to see if anyone is following me closely.
Mad props to the population here who are STILL quibbling about language. It makes this woman feel great.
posted by kimberussell at 5:59 AM on October 30 [16 favorites]
I'm in my invisible woman phase at the moment which is a nice refresher from the constant harassment that was out there when I was in my teens-40s. Now I get to look forward to my 'elderly easy victim' phase ahead.
Keys between fingers LOOKS intimidating, which is sometimes half the battle, y'know? It is better than nothing and most of the experts saying it's dangerous are either selling other self-defense products or running self-defense classes. And I'd rather have multiple keys going into my assailant's eye and hurting my hand than being dead with an intact hand.
My one weird trick for being 'prepared' is to use city shop windows' reflections to see if anyone is following me closely.
Mad props to the population here who are STILL quibbling about language. It makes this woman feel great.
posted by kimberussell at 5:59 AM on October 30 [16 favorites]
> It's an SNL sketch, friend, it's not supposed to be a self-defense seminar.
posted by EmpressCallipygos
Oh I know, friend, I hate SNL. Strange you don't see any value in correcting misinformation, which is my goal.
You're making a very broad assumption there. I do in fact think it's important to correct misinformation, but that is tempered by the awareness that sometimes when you're trying to "correct misinformation" in something that wasn't trying to be informative in the first place, it diffuses the larger message, because then you run the risk of everyone writing you off as missing the point and you end up obscuring information because no one is listening to you any more and you've also distracted people from speaking about how men are surprised we have to be thinking of this in the first place.
But you do you.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 6:09 AM on October 30 [3 favorites]
posted by EmpressCallipygos
Oh I know, friend, I hate SNL. Strange you don't see any value in correcting misinformation, which is my goal.
You're making a very broad assumption there. I do in fact think it's important to correct misinformation, but that is tempered by the awareness that sometimes when you're trying to "correct misinformation" in something that wasn't trying to be informative in the first place, it diffuses the larger message, because then you run the risk of everyone writing you off as missing the point and you end up obscuring information because no one is listening to you any more and you've also distracted people from speaking about how men are surprised we have to be thinking of this in the first place.
But you do you.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 6:09 AM on October 30 [3 favorites]
I'm in my invisible woman phase at the moment
Yeah, me, too. I was actually complaining last spring about it because it means I have to wait at the verge of the traffic circle or people will speed through it and run me down whereas a woman in her 20s or 30s can continue her jog through the entire circle without slowing if she feels like it, maybe with one "thank you for not killing me!" hand up at shoulder level. But that's about her only advantage over invisible me: not getting flat out run down in the street in broad daylight. I remember well the shit that woman has to go through because she's visible. I would not trade with her.
posted by Don Pepino at 6:14 AM on October 30 [1 favorite]
Yeah, me, too. I was actually complaining last spring about it because it means I have to wait at the verge of the traffic circle or people will speed through it and run me down whereas a woman in her 20s or 30s can continue her jog through the entire circle without slowing if she feels like it, maybe with one "thank you for not killing me!" hand up at shoulder level. But that's about her only advantage over invisible me: not getting flat out run down in the street in broad daylight. I remember well the shit that woman has to go through because she's visible. I would not trade with her.
posted by Don Pepino at 6:14 AM on October 30 [1 favorite]
I thought the risk of the keys thing was that the key might sort of fold back and cut your hand between the knuckles. And if you hold the key between your thumb and forefinger, it becomes pretty obvious that keys are not really very good weapons.
I'd be, like, "get a neck knife," but one, the UK is super weird about knives. Two, most people really aren't prepared to be all stabby stabby in real life. And three, there's a thing where otherwise peaceful men spend way too much time thinking about violence they will never do, which is maybe tied into the cultural expectation that men be prepared to be violent at any moment. That last point describes me, though as I get older that whole "what would I do if I suddenly got attacked?" line of thinking isn't as common as it once was. I know fuck all about self defense in any case. None of the men on that stage really know anything about killing someone with a phone either, right? Graham Norton isn't a badass killer type, at least on tv. That's why there's an awkward silence. The men are playing at violence, and then Ronan points out it's not a game.
It does make me wonder, if women are thinking about violent men all the time, and men are thinking about violence all the time, that's... uh... those things are linked, right?
(Also, totally parenthetically, I enjoy how they are all miming cell phones, and not, like, a Western Electric model 500. Truly we have advanced as a society.)
posted by surlyben at 6:42 AM on October 30 [1 favorite]
I'd be, like, "get a neck knife," but one, the UK is super weird about knives. Two, most people really aren't prepared to be all stabby stabby in real life. And three, there's a thing where otherwise peaceful men spend way too much time thinking about violence they will never do, which is maybe tied into the cultural expectation that men be prepared to be violent at any moment. That last point describes me, though as I get older that whole "what would I do if I suddenly got attacked?" line of thinking isn't as common as it once was. I know fuck all about self defense in any case. None of the men on that stage really know anything about killing someone with a phone either, right? Graham Norton isn't a badass killer type, at least on tv. That's why there's an awkward silence. The men are playing at violence, and then Ronan points out it's not a game.
It does make me wonder, if women are thinking about violent men all the time, and men are thinking about violence all the time, that's... uh... those things are linked, right?
(Also, totally parenthetically, I enjoy how they are all miming cell phones, and not, like, a Western Electric model 500. Truly we have advanced as a society.)
posted by surlyben at 6:42 AM on October 30 [1 favorite]
I'd be, like, "get a neck knife,"
I'm not a weapons girlie but one I've seen and like is a big heavy padlock knotted into the end of a beautiful scarf. Fashionable and functional!
posted by phunniemee at 6:44 AM on October 30 [6 favorites]
I'm not a weapons girlie but one I've seen and like is a big heavy padlock knotted into the end of a beautiful scarf. Fashionable and functional!
posted by phunniemee at 6:44 AM on October 30 [6 favorites]
a friend of mine made her own stun gun from youtube and parts from an electronics store. stun guns are not legal here, but knives are, but she was worried about accidentally inflicting a fatal injury when all she wants to do is be able to get away from a situation fast
i've considered doing the same, but for now, i just make my calculations and risk assessments any time i head out into the world based on time of day, visibility, noise, and a host of other factors. and i can't say it's at all reassuring
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 6:56 AM on October 30 [1 favorite]
i've considered doing the same, but for now, i just make my calculations and risk assessments any time i head out into the world based on time of day, visibility, noise, and a host of other factors. and i can't say it's at all reassuring
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 6:56 AM on October 30 [1 favorite]
Wow, thank you jacquilynne. I saw that clip and it was impactful, but you, Marina Hyde, and all the voices here have taken it to the next level. For this man, it seems like a great opportunity to just listen.
posted by caddis at 7:55 AM on October 30 [4 favorites]
posted by caddis at 7:55 AM on October 30 [4 favorites]
Other weapons are better, the keys are more of an improvised "what you have" thing. There's a Japanese thing I've seen in plastic versions that is ~ cylinder with pieces sticking out along it that you hold between your fingers (the pieces) and that project out from them. Does the same job as I mentioned before with the keys but is less likely to slip.
Also, I should say I was drawn to (possibly) helping someone with the keys tip. But I don't feel it's my place to comment on the disgusting way women are treated in the situations being discussed.
posted by aleph at 8:33 AM on October 30
Also, I should say I was drawn to (possibly) helping someone with the keys tip. But I don't feel it's my place to comment on the disgusting way women are treated in the situations being discussed.
posted by aleph at 8:33 AM on October 30
If the police have to get involved, it's going to look much worse for someone carrying an ersatz set of brass knuckles than someone defending themselves with their keys, at least where I live. The fact that they're such an innocent thing to carry, and don't denote any kind of premeditation or prediliction for violence is part of why the keys thing works in a lot of places.
posted by Dysk at 9:08 AM on October 30 [1 favorite]
posted by Dysk at 9:08 AM on October 30 [1 favorite]
Dave Chappelle had a great bit about how he had to carry $20,000 in cash on the subway late at night and how terrified he was.
And then he realized that this is how women feel all the time.
posted by Phreesh at 10:35 AM on October 30
And then he realized that this is how women feel all the time.
posted by Phreesh at 10:35 AM on October 30
I liked this but it could have given more. I was actually really impressed by the taken-aback moment from the other two guys who seem quite young and with it. They are enough with-it to let her statement stand. (Also, I never thought about using the phone as a self-defense weapon and I'm going to tell my daughter about it.) A digression that brings me to my next point. As the mother of a teenage girl, I'm now tasked with holding forth for the patriarchy by policing my daughter's clothing and appearance before she leaves the home. It's horrible and go ahead and judge me for whatever you think I am or am not doing about this and what my stance is or isn't. There's no good mothers. But, let me tell you, I wrestle with it and I hate it and I hated it when my parents did it to me. I just couldn't believe that ANYONE would be looking at my body at all let alone some fictional boogeyman. Then I grew up. And then I started being in spaces with those boogeymen. And I realized I'd need to choose among them. And I'd need to be hyper vigilant for all the dickheads who would grab a feel, take something from me, confuse me, terrorize me and dismiss me. Nothing my daughter can wear will save her from that. As she has told me (thank goodness, she has a strong spine!). But, yet, I just don't want to make it too easy. I don't want someone to just be able to reach out and touch her skin without asking. But they will and they'll yank up her clothing to do it if they want. Ugh.
🤙amirite ladies??🤙
posted by amanda at 10:36 AM on October 30 [4 favorites]
🤙amirite ladies??🤙
posted by amanda at 10:36 AM on October 30 [4 favorites]
it's great that dave chappelle had some empathy for women
if only he'd show a modicum of that to the trans women he despises. maybe he doesn't despise them. but his jokes and his humor help reinforce the conditions that cause trans women to experience elevated levels of caution and hyperawareness, especially if they don't pass.
add that on top of the fun discoveries newly femme-presenting people experience that saorise describes, that cis women have experienced from the start of civilization, well.
posted by i used to be someone else at 10:47 AM on October 30 [7 favorites]
if only he'd show a modicum of that to the trans women he despises. maybe he doesn't despise them. but his jokes and his humor help reinforce the conditions that cause trans women to experience elevated levels of caution and hyperawareness, especially if they don't pass.
add that on top of the fun discoveries newly femme-presenting people experience that saorise describes, that cis women have experienced from the start of civilization, well.
posted by i used to be someone else at 10:47 AM on October 30 [7 favorites]
Yeah - (male, older) here. This has been on my mind since my late 20s, when a girlfriend at the time revealed she has been raped a decade earlier. That took me down a path of understanding and learning since.
I asked something around this 10 years ago -
*How do you know what you know*
In the meantime, I gained a daughter and the concept of how this "knowledge" is passed around or shared was my question. She was 17 and I was querying her friend-group around this.
Men have know clue how differently we move through the world, nor is there a great deal of discussion around this. Once of the books that helped me see a different perspective was "Transforming a rape culture" by Emilie Buchwald (Editor).
Understanding is a start.
posted by fluffycreature at 10:58 AM on October 30 [3 favorites]
I asked something around this 10 years ago -
*How do you know what you know*
In the meantime, I gained a daughter and the concept of how this "knowledge" is passed around or shared was my question. She was 17 and I was querying her friend-group around this.
Men have know clue how differently we move through the world, nor is there a great deal of discussion around this. Once of the books that helped me see a different perspective was "Transforming a rape culture" by Emilie Buchwald (Editor).
Understanding is a start.
posted by fluffycreature at 10:58 AM on October 30 [3 favorites]
I was taught to carry my keys between my fingers, so I, for one, am very glad that that misinformation is being corrected here.
posted by maryellenreads at 12:16 PM on October 30 [6 favorites]
posted by maryellenreads at 12:16 PM on October 30 [6 favorites]
I was taught to keep a roll of pennies in my purse and hold them in my fist. Also that an assailant is often on guard against stomping on a foot or a blow to the genitals, but if you are wearing hard-soled shoes that scraping the side of your shoe down someone's shin is also very painful and likely to shock them into letting go.
I was the sole female mod on a board for a demographically male hobby for a while and at one point was in a conversation with an incel which started going toxic in entirely predictable ways. I shrugged, filed it under 'creepers are gonna creep' and noped out of the thread. I then got to see the conversation on the mod side where someone said "hey, is anyone else really uncomfortable with the way that guy is talking to karmakaze?" I was torn between "bless you for speaking up" and "this is the background radiation of my life and you're only noticing it for the first time now?"
posted by Karmakaze at 5:40 AM on October 31 [6 favorites]
I was the sole female mod on a board for a demographically male hobby for a while and at one point was in a conversation with an incel which started going toxic in entirely predictable ways. I shrugged, filed it under 'creepers are gonna creep' and noped out of the thread. I then got to see the conversation on the mod side where someone said "hey, is anyone else really uncomfortable with the way that guy is talking to karmakaze?" I was torn between "bless you for speaking up" and "this is the background radiation of my life and you're only noticing it for the first time now?"
posted by Karmakaze at 5:40 AM on October 31 [6 favorites]
"...if you are wearing hard-soled shoes that scraping the side of your shoe down someone's shin"
If you do, continue on down with all the force you can into the top of the foot. If they're wearing shoes (not boots) good chance you can disable the foot and keep them from chasing you.
posted by aleph at 8:22 AM on October 31 [1 favorite]
If you do, continue on down with all the force you can into the top of the foot. If they're wearing shoes (not boots) good chance you can disable the foot and keep them from chasing you.
posted by aleph at 8:22 AM on October 31 [1 favorite]
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I thought the linked article in The Guardian was one of the better opinion pieces about it.
posted by jacquilynne at 2:24 PM on October 29 [9 favorites]