You used to be able to make a living playing in a band.
November 1, 2024 6:13 AM Subscribe
The decline of the working musician. New Yorker article reviewing the book Band People.
Ungated
Excerpt from article: Young people who came of age before the twenty-first century, Franz Nicolay argues in a new book called “Band People: Life and Work in Popular Music,” could be forgiven for assuming that working one’s way up from gigs to a steady job in music was a plausible career path. You might not make it as a chart-topping star, but there were still opportunities for “band people”—the “hired guns” or “side-of-the-stagers” who offered structure and support. Music was everywhere, and there had to be people to play it. Nicolay’s book details the lives of working musicians, especially those far from the spotlight: background vocalists hired for uncredited recording sessions, rhythm guitarists playing on freelance contracts.
Excerpt from article: Young people who came of age before the twenty-first century, Franz Nicolay argues in a new book called “Band People: Life and Work in Popular Music,” could be forgiven for assuming that working one’s way up from gigs to a steady job in music was a plausible career path. You might not make it as a chart-topping star, but there were still opportunities for “band people”—the “hired guns” or “side-of-the-stagers” who offered structure and support. Music was everywhere, and there had to be people to play it. Nicolay’s book details the lives of working musicians, especially those far from the spotlight: background vocalists hired for uncredited recording sessions, rhythm guitarists playing on freelance contracts.
It's impressive nowadays when a bar even kicks $20 to a 5 piece band.
posted by tiny frying pan at 7:20 AM on November 1
posted by tiny frying pan at 7:20 AM on November 1
Hired Gun movie
just in case you thought any of this was new, and want to lose respect for some artists you may like. The hilarious part is that all the hired guns want to work for Disney pop artists because Disney adheres to corporate-ish working conditions, with magical things like health insurance.
However:
Old 97s Longer Than You've Been Alive - If you offered me an office, I'd have to pass.
Jerry Jeff Walker - Life on the Road If I stop it won't be long before they are singing somone else's song.
posted by The_Vegetables at 7:40 AM on November 1 [8 favorites]
just in case you thought any of this was new, and want to lose respect for some artists you may like. The hilarious part is that all the hired guns want to work for Disney pop artists because Disney adheres to corporate-ish working conditions, with magical things like health insurance.
However:
Old 97s Longer Than You've Been Alive - If you offered me an office, I'd have to pass.
Jerry Jeff Walker - Life on the Road If I stop it won't be long before they are singing somone else's song.
posted by The_Vegetables at 7:40 AM on November 1 [8 favorites]
I know people who still make a living at it. It helps to be young, very good-looking, and talented. Maybe it's good on some level that I didn't go that direction and instead focused on writing-related career things.
I've been thinking about this a lot lately, since I've been making more art and music again recently. I'm not sure either will ever make me money, and as I'm trying to make myself buckle down on the hard work of getting a swath of my songs album-ready, I feel acutely how different this might have been in an earlier era. Maybe it's just a frustrated fantasy, but I feel like if I had this many good songs in that earlier era, someone would probably appear to help me make quicker work of getting them ready to record and perform.
But as it is, the only people I see getting that rising-star treatment now are college-age ingenues. I feel so acutely how little the rest of us are seen and how slim our prospects are for making any money. Yes, I would do it anyway. I am doing it anyway. Like since when was music or art about getting anyone's approval? But...it is nice to be seen and heard and supported.
As they say, it's easier than ever to make something at home that people around the world will hear or see. I appreciate that, and it's not nothing. But I do find myself wistfully wishing some aspects of this were different.
posted by limeonaire at 7:42 AM on November 1 [7 favorites]
I've been thinking about this a lot lately, since I've been making more art and music again recently. I'm not sure either will ever make me money, and as I'm trying to make myself buckle down on the hard work of getting a swath of my songs album-ready, I feel acutely how different this might have been in an earlier era. Maybe it's just a frustrated fantasy, but I feel like if I had this many good songs in that earlier era, someone would probably appear to help me make quicker work of getting them ready to record and perform.
But as it is, the only people I see getting that rising-star treatment now are college-age ingenues. I feel so acutely how little the rest of us are seen and how slim our prospects are for making any money. Yes, I would do it anyway. I am doing it anyway. Like since when was music or art about getting anyone's approval? But...it is nice to be seen and heard and supported.
As they say, it's easier than ever to make something at home that people around the world will hear or see. I appreciate that, and it's not nothing. But I do find myself wistfully wishing some aspects of this were different.
posted by limeonaire at 7:42 AM on November 1 [7 favorites]
When I was at Roadrunner Records, a lot of our discussions in the late-2000s involved the digital and distribution folks and how we could support the growth of more "middle class" musicians. Every entertainment company is going to be focused on hits to some degree, of course, but we were really trying to make more Machine Heads, Triviums, Amanda Palmers, and Killswitch Engages happen. These types of musicians usually have more than one of the following: good songwriting, a strong fanbase to whom they are connected, good live performances supporting extensive touring, able to move physical merch, and active involvement in their own business.
You'll notice almost none of that is very focused on recorded music.
posted by Captaintripps at 7:54 AM on November 1 [13 favorites]
You'll notice almost none of that is very focused on recorded music.
posted by Captaintripps at 7:54 AM on November 1 [13 favorites]
I know people who are making a living as working musicians, mostly through a combination of teaching on the weekdays and playing in popular local cover bands at night. It's not what you'd call a good living, but it can keep a roof over one's head. But making a living as a musician playing your own original music (or as an instrumentalist backing an original singer)? Nope. Those days are long gone.
posted by Daily Alice at 7:55 AM on November 1 [4 favorites]
posted by Daily Alice at 7:55 AM on November 1 [4 favorites]
The number of live venues in my area isn't zero, but it's a fraction of what it was in the 70s when I first came here. There's a similar decline in the number of new bands, at least those not made up of retired guys who don't need the money. It's sad.
posted by tommasz at 7:59 AM on November 1 [4 favorites]
posted by tommasz at 7:59 AM on November 1 [4 favorites]
From high school age I was always involved in some way with the music scene. In that time, have one friend who went on to help write and perform in a movie that became a cult hit, and do well as a studio musician, hired gun for touring artists. A few years ago, a good from from college landed a gig with an alt country artist who has blown up the past few years. I was so happy to find out after 25 plus years he could quit his day job and do music full time. I also recall as a kid, my friend's dad was a full time musician and made a good living playing the jersey bar scene and weddings in the 70's.
Those are the exceptions, other friends landed deals with smaller mid sized labels like Road Runner/Century Media, toured, but never made any money. I worked for awhile as a booking agent doing smaller/mid tier bands and had to quit as the 10%-15% per gig was much less than the offer I had to work in IT with less aggravation. I still go to shows and support live music as much as I can, but the number of venues and attendance for most local gig has fallen way off since the early-mid 2000's.
posted by remo at 8:22 AM on November 1 [3 favorites]
Those are the exceptions, other friends landed deals with smaller mid sized labels like Road Runner/Century Media, toured, but never made any money. I worked for awhile as a booking agent doing smaller/mid tier bands and had to quit as the 10%-15% per gig was much less than the offer I had to work in IT with less aggravation. I still go to shows and support live music as much as I can, but the number of venues and attendance for most local gig has fallen way off since the early-mid 2000's.
posted by remo at 8:22 AM on November 1 [3 favorites]
A few years back when Nashville flooded, there were stories about big name bands who lost equipment when a major tour storage warehouse flooded and I made some mocking comment about maybe it being a good thing in the case of some big name but kinda crap band. I don't even remember anymore who it was. A friend who lives in Nashville and works in the industry noted that my shitty joke wasn't just about a band that I don't like that much, but about the livelihoods of all their supporting musicians, tour managers, etc, etc.
It is easy to forget that the guy on tour is never just the guy on tour and as things get harder for the guy they also get harder for the other guys.
posted by jacquilynne at 8:24 AM on November 1 [10 favorites]
It is easy to forget that the guy on tour is never just the guy on tour and as things get harder for the guy they also get harder for the other guys.
posted by jacquilynne at 8:24 AM on November 1 [10 favorites]
this also makes me think about the extreme increase in the cost of housing in a lot of cities over the past two or three decades - a lot of cities where the arts used to flourish because there used to be cheap housing. Without that, it's a lot harder to piece together a music (or other art) career, with limited income but the ability to make rent by picking up a couple shifts at the bar or as a caterer or any of the other jillion jobs that gig workers supplemented with. When your rent is $1500 for a room in a share, instead of $400, it's going to be a lot harder to make a living playing music.
in the early 2000s I was in a band and this was already getting untenable; the rent was going up and the small venues where we could play and earn a couple hundred bucks from our take at the door were all closing up because their landlords realized that they could quintuple the rent and Duane Reade or whoever would pay it.
posted by entropone at 8:28 AM on November 1 [28 favorites]
in the early 2000s I was in a band and this was already getting untenable; the rent was going up and the small venues where we could play and earn a couple hundred bucks from our take at the door were all closing up because their landlords realized that they could quintuple the rent and Duane Reade or whoever would pay it.
posted by entropone at 8:28 AM on November 1 [28 favorites]
My band has been at it for more than a decade, and we've never "made a living" off of it. We all have day jobs, spouses with jobs themselves, and most of us also have kids ranging from elementary school to college grad. Being in the wedding/corporate event scene most of the time (with occasional public shows, too.) we charge what we charge, allowing band and crew to make a guaranteed rate each night. We all "paid our dues" before being in this band, crashing on couches, and I consider myself very lucky now.
It wasn't always the case, but we now are fortunate enough to be able to pay a 2-person crew to do most of the load-in and load-out, plus FOH sound and lights. That means we usually don't have ~12-hour days getting to the gig, setting up, playing, packing up and driving home. Today, for instance, I'm showing up for a 4 p.m. soundcheck and playing a 2-hour set starting at 6 p.m. Home by 9 on a Friday night? I'll take it.
posted by emelenjr at 8:42 AM on November 1 [15 favorites]
It wasn't always the case, but we now are fortunate enough to be able to pay a 2-person crew to do most of the load-in and load-out, plus FOH sound and lights. That means we usually don't have ~12-hour days getting to the gig, setting up, playing, packing up and driving home. Today, for instance, I'm showing up for a 4 p.m. soundcheck and playing a 2-hour set starting at 6 p.m. Home by 9 on a Friday night? I'll take it.
posted by emelenjr at 8:42 AM on November 1 [15 favorites]
I’m with entropone above. The transformation of housing into a wealth creation machine has a lot to do with it.
posted by jerome powell buys his sweatbands in bulk only at 9:17 AM on November 1 [8 favorites]
posted by jerome powell buys his sweatbands in bulk only at 9:17 AM on November 1 [8 favorites]
Musicians, creatives in general, can have wildly fluctuating incomes year by year. Time was (1964-1984) the US IRS recognized and accommodated this. No more, unless you farm or fish.*
For more, and what it means to entrepreneurial marathon runners like musicians, this gives a good overview (inspired by the covid disruptions, but applicable generally)
Other countries do it. Write your representatives.
(Full disclosure - I make a pittance from writing, not enough for any rule change to affect me. Though I can dream.)
*1984 House bill termed it the Deficit Reduction Act. Deficits of course continued to rise, falling only briefly during the nineties tech boom- that is to say, when entrepreneurial marathon runners caught that wave. Congress will have its little jokes.
posted by BWA at 9:21 AM on November 1 [3 favorites]
For more, and what it means to entrepreneurial marathon runners like musicians, this gives a good overview (inspired by the covid disruptions, but applicable generally)
Other countries do it. Write your representatives.
(Full disclosure - I make a pittance from writing, not enough for any rule change to affect me. Though I can dream.)
*1984 House bill termed it the Deficit Reduction Act. Deficits of course continued to rise, falling only briefly during the nineties tech boom- that is to say, when entrepreneurial marathon runners caught that wave. Congress will have its little jokes.
posted by BWA at 9:21 AM on November 1 [3 favorites]
this also makes me think about the extreme increase in the cost of housing in a lot of cities over the past two or three decades - a lot of cities where the arts used to flourish because there used to be cheap housing.
Yes. When people complain about housing costs, they're not just talking about the literal price of living in a place, they're talking about the place's whole quality of life.
posted by praemunire at 9:28 AM on November 1 [6 favorites]
Yes. When people complain about housing costs, they're not just talking about the literal price of living in a place, they're talking about the place's whole quality of life.
posted by praemunire at 9:28 AM on November 1 [6 favorites]
Now plot attendance vs ticket prices vs time
posted by St. Peepsburg at 10:11 AM on November 1 [1 favorite]
posted by St. Peepsburg at 10:11 AM on November 1 [1 favorite]
Just got here so haven't read the article yet but this makes me think of Matthew Sweet, who had a stroke recently while he was on tour in Canada, and of course he doesn't have health insurance. So he has no money coming in, massive costs in Canada, and massive costs in the US to come. There's a GoFundMe, which I kicked into for the joy his music has brought me.
Sweet is a guy who has been living the middle of the road music life for years and I have no idea what's going to happen to him. Most of us are one health crisis away from disaster, but musicians are even more financially fragile than those of us with good 9 to 5 corporate jobs with benefits.
posted by gentlyepigrams at 10:41 AM on November 1 [8 favorites]
Sweet is a guy who has been living the middle of the road music life for years and I have no idea what's going to happen to him. Most of us are one health crisis away from disaster, but musicians are even more financially fragile than those of us with good 9 to 5 corporate jobs with benefits.
posted by gentlyepigrams at 10:41 AM on November 1 [8 favorites]
Bob Lefsetz has been writing about the music business for decades. His blog and comments is read by most music industry people. His main discussion is about the business of music. I am not in the music business in any form other than I listen on the radio and attend a lot of live music, but I still find his musings worth the read.
posted by JohnnyGunn at 10:57 AM on November 1 [3 favorites]
posted by JohnnyGunn at 10:57 AM on November 1 [3 favorites]
And despite the collective dream that brings artists together, the critic and theorist Simon Frith argues, “the rock profession is based on a highly individualistic, competitive approach to music, an approach rooted in ambition and free enterprise,” which feeds perfectly into a quintessentially American zero-to-hero dream. This, Nicolay suggests, is what makes the prospect of, say, “a hypothetical union,” which might negotiate fees with a club on behalf of musicians, unimaginable.
A musicians' union is far from hypothetical in some jurisdictions, including the US.
posted by GeorgeBickham at 1:24 PM on November 1 [3 favorites]
A musicians' union is far from hypothetical in some jurisdictions, including the US.
posted by GeorgeBickham at 1:24 PM on November 1 [3 favorites]
There’s a tweet or copypasta somewhere about cheap housing being the cornerstone of cultural development. If you’re spending all your time working to pay rent, you don’t have the ability to experiment and try weird shit that won’t won’t make money, time to work on that weird shit, or even the energy to start doing weird shit in the first place.
posted by Jon_Evil at 1:25 PM on November 1 [7 favorites]
posted by Jon_Evil at 1:25 PM on November 1 [7 favorites]
A musicians' union is far from hypothetical in some jurisdictions, including the US.
The American Federation of Musicians exists but has weakened over the decades.
I’ve been a member for decades as a classical orchestra member but organizing rock bands, even huge touring acts, has always been difficult. Probably because of the act seeing no benefit and the AFM’s organization incompetence.
posted by Warren Terra at 2:45 PM on November 1
The American Federation of Musicians exists but has weakened over the decades.
I’ve been a member for decades as a classical orchestra member but organizing rock bands, even huge touring acts, has always been difficult. Probably because of the act seeing no benefit and the AFM’s organization incompetence.
posted by Warren Terra at 2:45 PM on November 1
I've been bummed about the price of concert tickets, but also understood that the money is thoroughly on the ground now. I'm not going to see David Bromberg or the Pixies for $80. But like....I get it.
posted by es_de_bah at 3:09 PM on November 1
posted by es_de_bah at 3:09 PM on November 1
United Musicians & Allied Workers exists. Check it out.
posted by limeonaire at 4:26 PM on November 1 [1 favorite]
posted by limeonaire at 4:26 PM on November 1 [1 favorite]
There are also other local musicians' unions, like this in New York.
posted by limeonaire at 4:29 PM on November 1
posted by limeonaire at 4:29 PM on November 1
I'm extremely disturbed by what I have seen happening to the arts in general, financially. I think that at this point they're mostly about the accumulation of social capital, which in a roundabout way can turn into a real world payoff, but it's a pretty risky gamble; really, it's best if you have a working spouse or a rich mom and dad who can shoulder the burdens of room and board (and whatever else you need to make your thing happen) while you try to make your thing happen. There was a time when for many people the arts were a hobby, but I think we're entering a time when for almost everyone the arts are a hobby. That is, for almost everyone who can afford to have a time- and resource-consuming hobby that doesn't pay.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 5:35 PM on November 1 [2 favorites]
posted by kittens for breakfast at 5:35 PM on November 1 [2 favorites]
At the time, I didn't realize I was living in the Good Old Days: In Richmond, Indiana, in the mid-70s, where all the working musicians had to be (got to be) in the union, we were making what would be in 2024 dollars $400 a night. So you'd make rent in a weekend or so. And we were just a bar band! Years later, I played the same fucking songs in a wedding/event band in Colorado, making much better money than a bar band, although not nearly that sweet 70s money!
Many of us working in these kinds of bands wanted to play more authentic music. Most of us found alternative careers, of course. Heartfelt music seldom pays the bills.
posted by kozad at 5:50 PM on November 1 [1 favorite]
Many of us working in these kinds of bands wanted to play more authentic music. Most of us found alternative careers, of course. Heartfelt music seldom pays the bills.
posted by kozad at 5:50 PM on November 1 [1 favorite]
I’m in bands. Money stuff is depressing. I think we made less than $20 from streaming last year. Bandcamp Friday is great. Digital sales are great as postage has gotten super expensive. Printing vinyl is stupid expensive. Our average is around $175 for gigs. Thankfully we’re a duo but there is no way we could make a living from this. Putting together gigs, promo stuff etc is a huge amount of work.
posted by misterpatrick at 7:28 PM on November 1 [2 favorites]
posted by misterpatrick at 7:28 PM on November 1 [2 favorites]
I think it's much cheaper to be a SoundCloud rapper than in a band, also, and some live venues and bars have switched from having bands play to hiring DJs.
posted by subdee at 12:08 AM on November 2
posted by subdee at 12:08 AM on November 2
I read this line recently, which hit me like a thunderbolt: "You work passion jobs, and passion jobs are prime for exploitation." She's not talking about musicians in this context, but it is a thought applicable to so many "cool" jobs that aren't, frankly, working in an office. A "cool" or "fun" or "passionate" job is one of which a person might say, "I love it so much, I'd do it for free!!" and that is how the Spotifies of the world get you, because they hear that and take what you are saying very seriously and completely literally. This is how you end up with writers for critically acclaimed shows living in tiny apartments where they literally cannot keep their lights on, and Lily Allen making a living selling weirdos pictures of her feet.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 5:32 AM on November 2 [1 favorite]
posted by kittens for breakfast at 5:32 AM on November 2 [1 favorite]
I'm not going to see David Bromberg or the Pixies for $80. But like....I get it.
I don't know about the Pixies, but David Bromberg is totally worth the $80 to me. I look at it this way, so I am paying I don't know, double what it could be. I have seen Bromberg like 12 times at various points in his career. He is still out there playing. He has a backing band. Working musicians. If I can support him and his band to keep them playing for a little while longer, until I am dead, gone and forgot, I will do it. Sort of like a generous tip to a hard working server.
posted by JohnnyGunn at 1:56 PM on November 2
I don't know about the Pixies, but David Bromberg is totally worth the $80 to me. I look at it this way, so I am paying I don't know, double what it could be. I have seen Bromberg like 12 times at various points in his career. He is still out there playing. He has a backing band. Working musicians. If I can support him and his band to keep them playing for a little while longer, until I am dead, gone and forgot, I will do it. Sort of like a generous tip to a hard working server.
posted by JohnnyGunn at 1:56 PM on November 2
"I love it so much, I'd do it for free!!" and that is how the Spotifies of the world get you, because they hear that and take what you are saying very seriously and completely literally.
I think that is a bit of an exaggeration. It's more like the income from personal means of getting your music out there (ie: playing live) is time limited (ie: nobody wants the 8:00am shift at the arena) and waning. So then you have to rely on the big players who have the means to get your music to people who do want to hear it at 8:00 am, and in some city you are not in.
In the past that meant records or CDs or tapes, but since that guy is supporting a bunch of artists, he has more power and money than you. You are on the tail of dictating terms, even if you are Michael Jackson or Taylor Swift. Taylor can't just make up her own musical format and distribution methods.
That was sort of tried in the late '90s to early 2000s, ie: you could download directly from a bands' website, but again that requires skills to set up far beyond playing in a band to administer. IE: it failed.
Spotify is just the latest version of getting your music to the masses - and they have all the money, the power, and the distribution network, which you do not have. You might assume that making the music takes most of the talent and artistry, but managing a distribution network does too, just different ones from making music.
posted by The_Vegetables at 7:15 AM on November 5
I think that is a bit of an exaggeration. It's more like the income from personal means of getting your music out there (ie: playing live) is time limited (ie: nobody wants the 8:00am shift at the arena) and waning. So then you have to rely on the big players who have the means to get your music to people who do want to hear it at 8:00 am, and in some city you are not in.
In the past that meant records or CDs or tapes, but since that guy is supporting a bunch of artists, he has more power and money than you. You are on the tail of dictating terms, even if you are Michael Jackson or Taylor Swift. Taylor can't just make up her own musical format and distribution methods.
That was sort of tried in the late '90s to early 2000s, ie: you could download directly from a bands' website, but again that requires skills to set up far beyond playing in a band to administer. IE: it failed.
Spotify is just the latest version of getting your music to the masses - and they have all the money, the power, and the distribution network, which you do not have. You might assume that making the music takes most of the talent and artistry, but managing a distribution network does too, just different ones from making music.
posted by The_Vegetables at 7:15 AM on November 5
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posted by Kitteh at 7:17 AM on November 1 [2 favorites]