The Predator and the President (who is also a predator)

November 2, 2024 9:05 PM

Jeffrey Epstein described himself as Donald Trump’s “closest friend” and claimed intimate knowledge of his proclivity for sex, including cuckolding his best friends, according to recordings obtained exclusively by the Daily Beast. [...] Epstein spoke at length about Trump with the author Michael Wolff in August 2017, two years before being found dead in his jail cell. [...] On the tape Epstein can be heard saying, “He’s a horrible human being. He does nasty things to his best friends, best friends’ wives, anyone who he first tries to gain their trust and uses it to do bad things to them.” [...] Startlingly for a man who became one of the world’s most notorious sex offenders, Epstein on the tapes offers a damning judgment of Trump, telling Wollf, “The moral compass just does not exist.”

Listen To The Jeffrey Epstein Tapes [The Daily Beast]
posted by Rhaomi (44 comments total)

Wolff has had this shit since 2017
posted by lalochezia at 9:19 PM on November 2 [119 favorites]

Wolff has always been sort of slimy and self-interested to the extent he cares much more about selling his books than doing anything that would be good for the country. On the other hand, I can't imagine that anybody who heard the Access Hollywood tapes (or all the other horrible stuff that came out about Trump after) and gave him a pass is going to draw the line at this. The people who vote for Trump have already decided that his lack of a "moral compass" is not enough to prevent them from doing so.
posted by axiom at 9:39 PM on November 2 [23 favorites]

I actually think this is an interesting one where all the fabricated Qanon conspiracy theories about pedophilia did get into people's heads at the same time as Epstein, creating an association. Hadn't the guy who shot at Trump posted stuff about it despite being a former supporter, or am I misremembering that? (search engines suck so much now)

I've long since given up trying to reason about his supporters' behavior, but observationally this does seem like something that they sometimes digest.
posted by Riki tiki at 11:13 PM on November 2 [7 favorites]

When Jeffrey Epstein thinks you are a scumbag...
posted by Literaryhero at 11:42 PM on November 2 [34 favorites]

I'm curious about the accusations against James Mattis, that is a name I haven't seen associated with Epstein before. But I'm not about to commit several hours to listening to thst creep jabbering to find out.
posted by St. Oops at 1:06 AM on November 3 [4 favorites]

Surely this
posted by rossmeissl at 2:43 AM on November 3 [21 favorites]

Sometimes I feel like there are two types of people: those who knew who Donald Trump was all along, and those who believed the fiction that was The Apprentice.

There is hardly anything Epstein said that is a surprise to me, except that what he thought was good about the Trump presidency was the anti-trans policy and giving the police more guns. I mean, it is no surprise that Epstein was a hateful bigot or that very rich people are very fearful, but those things are so weirdly specific.
posted by mumimor at 4:04 AM on November 3 [23 favorites]

Yeah, I would have presumed Epstein was largely apolitical, and that his interests were confined to molesting children. Who knew that underneath it all this deep and multi-faceted man also hated trans people and loved fascism. I guess you never can tell.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 4:09 AM on November 3 [43 favorites]

Nothing surprising here at all.
Two scumbags being scum-baggy.
There's a clip of Trump's deposition in the E. Jean Carroll case (scroll to around 3 min) where he talks about the "Access Hollywood" clip and... that should chill your blood.
posted by From Bklyn at 5:05 AM on November 3 [3 favorites]

Apparently the Access Hollywood tape has been making the rounds on TikTok recently because a lot of young voters have never seen it.

It came out eight years ago.
posted by AlSweigart at 7:08 AM on November 3 [36 favorites]

> On the other hand, I can't imagine that anybody who heard the Access Hollywood tapes

To be fair, there are 35 million people who weren't old enough to vote when those came out.
posted by lucidium at 7:08 AM on November 3 [13 favorites]

via From Bkly's link above:
TRUMP: No, it’s locker room talk. I don’t know. It’s just the way people talk.

No, you monster, you heap of excrement, that's how sex offenders talk.
posted by xedrik at 7:22 AM on November 3 [20 favorites]

"Gosh, both candidates are equally immoral, my conscience won't allow me to vote for either of them!" -- some people in 2024. And also in 2016.
posted by The Pluto Gangsta at 7:38 AM on November 3 [13 favorites]

'November surprise'?
posted by blue shadows at 8:09 AM on November 3 [1 favorite]

No surprise Epstein was offed found dead totally by his own hand.
posted by the sobsister at 8:24 AM on November 3 [7 favorites]

As much as negativity in politics turns off "centrist" voters, I sometimes wonder why Democratic strategy isn't to just continually let Trump and his close circle "speak for themselves" as it were. Just play the insane shit they say on a loop. Not mediated by Harris or any surrogate saying "Donald wants this, Donald says that," because she has zero credibility to people who aren't already receptive.

I don't remember where I saw it, but there was an article about how younger voters didn't even know about the Access Hollywood tapes and heard them for the first time during this cycle. This is sort of obvious in hindsight, since very young voters were literal children at the time that made airwaves. I think there's a sort of jaded blindness on the part of the Harris campaign to the fact that a tremendous amount of unplugged people have either forgotten or never knew about things like this.
posted by Room 101 at 9:20 AM on November 3 [3 favorites]

there are clips going around on insta/tiktok etc., showing young adults hearing/watching the tapes for the first time and their reactions. sort of becoming a meme I suppose. needless to say, the young women watching in the clip I saw were upset and horrified (and disgusted) by the words they heard.
posted by supermedusa at 9:33 AM on November 3 [8 favorites]

Trump's base is voting for him BECAUSE of his utter filth and lack of moral compass. You won't convince them to change their minds unless you could show them that he's a caring, compassionate, thoughtful, well informed person.
posted by 1adam12 at 10:09 AM on November 3 [13 favorites]

I sometimes wonder why Democratic strategy isn't to just continually let Trump and his close circle "speak for themselves" as it were. Just play the insane shit they say on a loop.

Both Campaigns Release Ads Showcasing Trump’s Most Racist Comments (The Onion)
posted by Horace Rumpole at 10:19 AM on November 3 [17 favorites]

So - earlier in the week The Bulwark mentioned that there was "a" tape, but it wasn't "the piss tape". And some rando on Twitter said it would be a bombshell. They didn't take it too seriously, but were positing that maybe there was something there (maybe they had little birdies more in the know). But mostly it sounded like they hoped it was the piss tape, and that likely it wasn't, and whatever it was probably wouldn't wreck him.

But. Well I guess there IS a tape, and it WOULD be pretty damaging if the cult wasn't so cultish that nothing will stop them.

So what percent of the talk out there is calling it a deepfake I wonder? There's surely some people who will have to justify themselves with this sort of nonsense. Others, as noted above, won't give a shit. This is their modus operandi. I wish I could show this to my mom once and for all to not vote for him. Maybe I will, but "The Daily Beast" doesn't sound like something she'd think is holy and from god, so... hrmm...
posted by symbioid at 10:58 AM on November 3 [2 favorites]

As much as negativity in politics turns off "centrist" voters, I sometimes wonder why Democratic strategy isn't to just continually let Trump and his close circle "speak for themselves" as it were.

My understanding is that increasingly there are no such things as centrists or undecideds. Anyone who says "I'm undecided" is really saying "I want to vote for Trump but I don't want to be lumped in with Trump voters." The vast majority of voting-age people in America know on which side of the line they fall; what matters is turnout. So R ads lean heavy on the fearmongering (go out and vote for the orange man or your children will be transed and your job and possibly your life will be taken by immigrants). The Dems seem to me to be a mix of "the orange man bad" and "our policies good for you" — which through the lens of turnout makes a lot more sense to me than simply one-noting the former.
posted by axiom at 11:01 AM on November 3 [4 favorites]

Anyone who says "I'm undecided" is really saying "I want to vote for Trump but

I agree and disagree. In this last week of election volunteering I've encountered a lot of stories of just how low the low-information voters' understanding is. Like, "yeah, but no states have outlawed abortion though" level of low.

One yard sign design I've seen several times in the swing state I'm volunteering in literally says, "TRUMP LOW TAXES, HARRIS HIGH TAXES". That's it. That's the entire sign. There are variants, one of which says "TRUMP SAFETY, HARRIS CRIMINAL". It doesn't get much more WAR IS PEACE than that.

But I agree, I think turnout matters so much more than trying to court this supposed large group of centrists/undecideds.
posted by AlSweigart at 11:37 AM on November 3 [18 favorites]

The preponderance of evidence in Doe v. Trump (1:16-cv-07673) District Court, S.D. New York shows that in 1994, Donald John Trump raped a 13 year old girl, a sex slave held captive by Epstein and Maxwell.
posted by mikelieman at 11:44 AM on November 3 [11 favorites]

Trump's base is voting for him BECAUSE of his utter filth and lack of moral compass.

I think the evangelical community is different. A large chunk of them hate being associated with him, but he's delivered what they want: Christian Nationalist judges and the death of Roe. What they missed, however, was the story in Matthew 4:8 where they're specifically told you can get anything you want -- as long as you're willing to worship the devil.
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 12:01 PM on November 3 [23 favorites]

Wolff has had this shit since 2017

And he seems to have figured out that the value of these tapes is about to go way, way down after Tuesday. If Trump wins, those tapes make zero difference as far as being influential in any way. Right now is the last chance for them to have any impact. I don’t think he releases these if he thinks Trump is gonna win.
posted by azpenguin at 12:26 PM on November 3 [10 favorites]

I agree that trying to attract undecided voters is a waste of effort.

But there have to be people who weren't going to vote where this story is the last straw or being recent gets some folks motivated to wait in line to vote just little bit longer. And on the flip side folks that have been holding their nose that will now stay home.

Now that the story has come out I at least hope it helps a little.
posted by VTX at 12:33 PM on November 3 [4 favorites]

I don’t think he releases these if he thinks Trump is gonna win.

You know, that's a huge upside to this whole story! A rationalisation for optimism! Thanks!
posted by From Bklyn at 12:59 PM on November 3 [11 favorites]

For those truly deep into conspiratorial thought, it is probably only now - the last weekend before the election - that they can really be sure that Hillary Clinton or Michelle Obama are NOT swooping in to take the reins from Kamala. They are not going to be swayed by any negative news about Trump.
posted by LostInUbe at 2:19 PM on November 3 [1 favorite]

There will be no bombshell revelations that will save us. Trump is melting down before our eyes, getting weirder by the day. If he was trying to tank his own campaign, he couldn't do a better job. Another 60+ women and girls could accuse him of sexual assault Monday morning, and it wouldn't change anything. We could have footage of him pissing on an orphan, and it probably wouldn't change anything either. There's nothing, literally nothing, that will budge the fuckers who plan to vote for him.

Nice to know that, despite their bitter falling-out, the convicted pedophile and the convicted sexual assaulter could still agree that I'm a disgusting pervert because I'm trans.
posted by Ursula Hitler at 3:32 PM on November 3 [25 favorites]

As much as negativity in politics turns off "centrist" voters, I sometimes wonder why Democratic strategy isn't to just continually let Trump and his close circle "speak for themselves" as it were. Just play the insane shit they say on a loop. ... I think there's a sort of jaded blindness on the part of the Harris campaign to the fact that a tremendous amount of unplugged people have either forgotten or never knew about things like this.

Joe Biden's campaign was all about highlighting the Trump horrorshow. He was heavily criticized for that by people who said he should have spent more time making a case for himself.

Harris has been focusing more on what she'll do and less on the Trump horrorshow. But she's been putting the spotlight on Trump more and more in the last few weeks.
posted by Artifice_Eternity at 3:59 PM on November 3 [1 favorite]

Harris has been focusing more on what she'll do and less on the Trump horrorshow.

You obviously haven't seen her campaign TikTok. It's just meme clips of Trump being an insane misogynist bigot.

It's very effective.
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 4:04 PM on November 3 [11 favorites]

I just drove by a digital billboard that said "REPRODUCTIVE RIGHTS AND SAFE ABORTIONS: VOTE TEAM REPUBLICAN" paid for by the local county GOP.

They are targeting the low low-information voters.
posted by AlSweigart at 4:10 PM on November 3 [15 favorites]

All the ads I have seen while watching the Seahawks getting embarrassed again were ads for TFG. Guess I should have given $47 to Barack.

Two days to go. Come on young women, bail us out. (also all of you old women, we know you know what's what).

Two more days. fingers so crossed.

Remember the night in 2016. Was picking up a pizza or two. And watching the results start coming in. And things went bad...

Not sure we've been back to that pizza place...
posted by Windopaene at 5:58 PM on November 3 [3 favorites]

I live in one of reddest county in PA. It’s basically all low information voters. They literally know nothing about Trump except for sound bites from fox told to them by friends who watch fox. If you talk to them about non-political stuff totally reasonable but once start talking about politics reason goes out the window. The zoomers are going to have to save us because the boomers won’t.
posted by roguewraith at 6:10 PM on November 3 [9 favorites]

I know we're not supposed to really look at them but..according to the Selzer poll in Iowa:
Similarly, senior voters who are 65 and older favor Harris. But senior women support her by a more than 2-to-1 margin, 63% to 28%, while senior men favor her by just 2 percentage points, 47% to 45%.

Iowa Poll: Kamala Harris leapfrogs Donald Trump to take lead near Election Day. Here's how

Related: How do past Iowa Poll results compare with presidential election results in Iowa?
posted by LostInUbe at 6:31 PM on November 3 [2 favorites]

I had hip replacement surgery in October of 2016. As I cannot tolerate opioids and my pain was never managed well, I had not slept in two weeks and was still in post-surgical agony on the night of the election. (Mine was not a simple arthroplasty; I had pelvic revision as well.)

The horror of that night left me permanently traumatized and the ensuing four years were all but unendurable.

This election is America looking in a mirror—what will we see? I have serious fears and question my ability to cope with the next 48 hours—and if the results align with those fears, I honestly don’t know what I will do. It terrifies me.
posted by kinnakeet at 4:06 AM on November 4 [10 favorites]

It occurred to me, when Schwarzenegger and Barbara Bush (individually) endorsed Kamala Harris, that late endorsements and October-November surprises have a lot in common with the legend of Jane Byrne driving around Chicago with boxes of ballots marked for Kennedy on Election Day 1960. Some stuff, you don’t use unless you have to. It costs a lot, or is risky, or, well, you’re saving it for a book. I’m sure Wolff put off releasing what he had, thinking that surely Trump would be lagging far behind. He had to wait until it probably won’t have any effect before he could release it.
posted by coldhotel at 6:14 AM on November 4

Agreed kinnakeet...

I thought we were going to take a step forward. And then results started coming in.

And here we are again. And I am worried the GOP ELECTION FRAUD bullshit will be way worse if they lose, with the SC totally being onboard...

36 hours or so. Look for the helpers. Jesus, so much anxiety and stress...
posted by Windopaene at 10:08 AM on November 4 [2 favorites]

Just one thing on the "Locker Room Talk" excuse. It's just false.

Trump was at work. He was at another companies workplace to promote his business project. He spoke this way to an employee of the other business who was collaborating on this. No part of this was leisure time. No one involved was friends with anyone else. This wasn't an unguarded private moment recorded unfairly.

It's too many years past to be shocked by anything he does and gets away with. But it's occasionally okay to call bullshit on the objectively false framing he operates under.
posted by jclarkin at 10:29 AM on November 4 [9 favorites]

Just as a note for those saying Wolff held this stuff for years without releasing it, he's been shopping it around since 2018 and not a single major news organization or publisher would touch it with a 10 foot pole. I wish he'd done a better job of finding ways to release it online, but after Wikileaks got themselves owned by Russian misinformation agents there weren't many places that had the same relevance for releasing blockbuster info. I mean, look at the memory hole that swallowed the Pandora Papers and that was just 2021.
posted by drossdragon at 2:42 PM on November 4 [4 favorites]

The zoomers are going to have to save us because the boomers won’t.

I hate to break it to you -- and to myself, as a GenXer, and to MeFi generally, which I think skews heavily toward my cohort -- but Gen X supports Trump more than the boomers do:

Gen Z and Millennials (56%) and Baby Boomers (55%) break for Harris. Trump (53%) receives majority support among the Silent/Greatest Generation. Members of Gen X divide (51% for Trump to 48% for Harris).

That is not an isolated poll. I've seen others recently that confirm it.
posted by Artifice_Eternity at 5:58 PM on November 4 [1 favorite]

If you're in Gen X and voting for Trump, when we have practical time travel you're getting ejected from Lollapalooza AND Woodstock 94.
posted by 1adam12 at 6:12 PM on November 4 [3 favorites]

Doe vs. Trump archived link of 1994 assault of 13-year-old lawsuit

PDF of complaint
posted by mecran01 at 7:01 PM on November 4 [2 favorites]

AlSweigart: It came out eight years ago.

If you’re, say, 20 years old (and reacting with disgust to the Access Hollywood tape on TikTok now), chances are your parents shielded you from the original when you were 12.
posted by LanTao at 3:50 PM on November 6