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November 4, 2024 8:00 PM Subscribe
The damage gridiron football does to the brains and bodies of its participants hasn't gone way. But the public's concern about that damage – to the extent it ever existed – appears to have evaporated.
Tagovailoa’s third NFL concussion — or was it his fourth? And should we count the one he suffered in college? — provoked more pointed questions, but pretty much all of them were directed at him: “Isn’t it time to retire? Don’t you need to think of your wife and kids?” No one was asking what the NFL needed to do, or whether football had a future. “Those who said all this awareness would kill football were wrong,” Chris Nowinski, who has been a leading advocate on the issue of brain injuries in sports for nearly two decades, told me recently. “Football continues to be more popular in just about every measurable way.”
The NFL is so fucking awful and toxic to the world that destroying the brains of its players isn't even necessarily the worst part of it.
posted by SaltySalticid at 8:33 PM on November 4 [15 favorites]
posted by SaltySalticid at 8:33 PM on November 4 [15 favorites]
Went deep-diving on Henry and found out 1. Pac-Man Jones adopted his kids 2. Henry’s mom donated his organs and saved four people’s lives 3. This Cincinnati enquirer sports columnist wrote like 2,000 totally uncritical words about Henry’s two sons playing junior high football without ever mentioning that their father died of football. So, yeah
https://www.cincinnati.com/story/sports/nfl/bengals/2021/10/04/pacman-jones-tutors-ex-bengal-chris-henry-sons-chris-jr-demarcus-withrow/5909668001/
posted by toodleydoodley at 8:40 PM on November 4 [12 favorites]
https://www.cincinnati.com/story/sports/nfl/bengals/2021/10/04/pacman-jones-tutors-ex-bengal-chris-henry-sons-chris-jr-demarcus-withrow/5909668001/
posted by toodleydoodley at 8:40 PM on November 4 [12 favorites]
The problem is much worse that just the NFL.
In my neck of the woods, Tyler Hilinski a college football player took his own life a couple of years ago. His autopsy revealed "the brain of a 65-year-old, with signs of extensive brain damage."
The thing was, Tyler was a first year student who had only played 8 college games. It was mostly high school football that destroyed his brain and took his life.
The fallout from his death has been -- nothing. Oh his parents started a foundation, not to lobby for safer football but for resources for depression, as if football were not the actual cause. Sports Illustrated ran a long piece that to me reads as everyone trying to deny the obvious cause of death.
Since then, Washington State University has doubled and tripled and quadroupled down on football, at the expense of its academic mission. The school currently has a QUARTER OF A BILLION DOLLARS in debt for football.
posted by LarryC at 9:05 PM on November 4 [30 favorites]
In my neck of the woods, Tyler Hilinski a college football player took his own life a couple of years ago. His autopsy revealed "the brain of a 65-year-old, with signs of extensive brain damage."
The thing was, Tyler was a first year student who had only played 8 college games. It was mostly high school football that destroyed his brain and took his life.
The fallout from his death has been -- nothing. Oh his parents started a foundation, not to lobby for safer football but for resources for depression, as if football were not the actual cause. Sports Illustrated ran a long piece that to me reads as everyone trying to deny the obvious cause of death.
Since then, Washington State University has doubled and tripled and quadroupled down on football, at the expense of its academic mission. The school currently has a QUARTER OF A BILLION DOLLARS in debt for football.
posted by LarryC at 9:05 PM on November 4 [30 favorites]
I'm sympathetic. And I hate this, emergence of extreme violence sports and gambling for all of it.
But has anyone seen recent polling data? As Carlin said, bad people, bad govt.
I think the idea of 'should' requires a heavy-handed dismantling and incorporation into the K-12 curriculum. People are bad. They like smashing and breaking things.
posted by Reasonably Everything Happens at 9:45 PM on November 4 [3 favorites]
But has anyone seen recent polling data? As Carlin said, bad people, bad govt.
I think the idea of 'should' requires a heavy-handed dismantling and incorporation into the K-12 curriculum. People are bad. They like smashing and breaking things.
posted by Reasonably Everything Happens at 9:45 PM on November 4 [3 favorites]
I've met a couple dozen people who have played college ball at the Division I or II level, and they're all broken.
It started when I was in my early mid 20's and ran into a dude I went to HS with. He was a rare one in that I didn't totally hate him (my high school was basically Brett Kavanaugh level awful), so we chatted a bit. He had chosen college based on being able to play football there, and had blown his knee out in practice. Never even got to touch the field in a game. It really struck me that here was this guy who was maybe 24, 25 years old, and his knee would never be right for the rest of his life. I turned it over and over in my head, just couldn't stop thinking about it.
Because of him, every time I meet someone who played, I ask if they have any permanent injuries. And I have never found a single person who doesn't.
So it's not just brain damage, although that gets the headlines. It's knees, shoulders, spinal columns, you name it. That game is a meat grinder. The uniforms make them faceless and replaceable. I'm pretty sure it's on purpose.
posted by Smedly, Butlerian jihadi at 9:50 PM on November 4 [24 favorites]
It started when I was in my early mid 20's and ran into a dude I went to HS with. He was a rare one in that I didn't totally hate him (my high school was basically Brett Kavanaugh level awful), so we chatted a bit. He had chosen college based on being able to play football there, and had blown his knee out in practice. Never even got to touch the field in a game. It really struck me that here was this guy who was maybe 24, 25 years old, and his knee would never be right for the rest of his life. I turned it over and over in my head, just couldn't stop thinking about it.
Because of him, every time I meet someone who played, I ask if they have any permanent injuries. And I have never found a single person who doesn't.
So it's not just brain damage, although that gets the headlines. It's knees, shoulders, spinal columns, you name it. That game is a meat grinder. The uniforms make them faceless and replaceable. I'm pretty sure it's on purpose.
posted by Smedly, Butlerian jihadi at 9:50 PM on November 4 [24 favorites]
I ask if they have any permanent injuries. And I have never found a single person who doesn't.
Talk to any skateboarder, mountain biker, or snowboarder and you'll get an even higher incidence of those injuries.
posted by Kibbutz at 10:02 PM on November 4 [3 favorites]
Talk to any skateboarder, mountain biker, or snowboarder and you'll get an even higher incidence of those injuries.
posted by Kibbutz at 10:02 PM on November 4 [3 favorites]
Talk to any skateboarder, mountain biker, or snowboarder and you'll get an even higher incidence of those injuries.
No way.
NFL players wouldn’t even count most of those injuries because they would be easily repaired by the best orthopedic surgeons in the world.
It’s not uncommon for NFL players to have more than 30 surgeries over their career.
posted by jamjam at 11:03 PM on November 4 [17 favorites]
No way.
NFL players wouldn’t even count most of those injuries because they would be easily repaired by the best orthopedic surgeons in the world.
It’s not uncommon for NFL players to have more than 30 surgeries over their career.
posted by jamjam at 11:03 PM on November 4 [17 favorites]
Part of the reason NFL players have so many surgeries is not because they are the are the appropriate treatment for the injuries but because a lot of the surgeries are for faster returns to play. Quick minor surgeries are the duck tape of professional sports that are done instead of proper rest and longer term conditioning and rehab. In basketball there are players who get their knees scoped and shaved so often they become swiss cheese.
I used to joke that you could see why every male American college graduate has a football injury by looking at the sidelines. They have so many players! Though this player count is now being cut back due to profit maximization motives which will only put even more pressure on getting injured players back on the field right away.
Also a lot of players will go on to have more surgeries after their careers are over because they defer treatment. Post career hip and knee replacements are not uncommon.
posted by srboisvert at 3:35 AM on November 5 [2 favorites]
I used to joke that you could see why every male American college graduate has a football injury by looking at the sidelines. They have so many players! Though this player count is now being cut back due to profit maximization motives which will only put even more pressure on getting injured players back on the field right away.
Also a lot of players will go on to have more surgeries after their careers are over because they defer treatment. Post career hip and knee replacements are not uncommon.
posted by srboisvert at 3:35 AM on November 5 [2 favorites]
Football is a cancer in the American body politic.
posted by Captaintripps at 3:56 AM on November 5 [6 favorites]
posted by Captaintripps at 3:56 AM on November 5 [6 favorites]
Yes, the draw and advertising money of sports betting can make many things evaporate.
posted by scruss at 4:36 AM on November 5 [5 favorites]
posted by scruss at 4:36 AM on November 5 [5 favorites]
I haven't watched football in decades (I was obsessed in the 80s and 90s) and we wouldn't let our kids play it. I don't understand how the NFL can destroy peoples' lives and get away with it. Well, actually, I can ($$$$$) but why the hell do we let them?
posted by ceejaytee at 4:38 AM on November 5 [3 favorites]
posted by ceejaytee at 4:38 AM on November 5 [3 favorites]
Here's what it comes down to: In 2012, when Cowen and Grier made their prediction, the NFL’s annual revenue was around $10 billion. It now brings in more than $20 billion. That answers the FPP's title question.
posted by Halloween Jack at 5:09 AM on November 5 [5 favorites]
posted by Halloween Jack at 5:09 AM on November 5 [5 favorites]
I saw an interview a few years ago with a woman whose father and two brothers had been in the NFL -- I'm sorry, I don't remember their names -- and the father had died from CTE, her brothers both had CTE, and she was UPSET that her son, who was 10 or 12, refused to play football after he was told by the coach to clock some kid on the other team and the kid was injured. She literally could not stop talking about how much fun it had been to have family in the NFL and how disappointed she was in her son. So messed up.
posted by JanetLand at 5:25 AM on November 5 [8 favorites]
posted by JanetLand at 5:25 AM on November 5 [8 favorites]
So messed up.
The alternative is admitting complicity, knowing that something you say you love killed the people you love, and that you were cheering the whole time.
posted by mhoye at 6:31 AM on November 5 [7 favorites]
The alternative is admitting complicity, knowing that something you say you love killed the people you love, and that you were cheering the whole time.
posted by mhoye at 6:31 AM on November 5 [7 favorites]
It’s not uncommon for NFL players to have more than 30 surgeries over their career.
posted by jamjam at 11:03 PM on November 4 [10 favorites]
Do you have a citation for this? Because the average length of an NFL career is about three years. Even a rare ten year career would require an average of three surgeries per year, meaning that they would be unlikely to ever be healthy enough to play.
And this study found that about 40% of former players surveyed had never had an injury that required surgery.
posted by Kibbutz at 6:40 AM on November 5 [5 favorites]
posted by jamjam at 11:03 PM on November 4 [10 favorites]
Do you have a citation for this? Because the average length of an NFL career is about three years. Even a rare ten year career would require an average of three surgeries per year, meaning that they would be unlikely to ever be healthy enough to play.
And this study found that about 40% of former players surveyed had never had an injury that required surgery.
posted by Kibbutz at 6:40 AM on November 5 [5 favorites]
yeah, well, RB georg who has had 10000 surgeries adn should not have been counted
posted by seanmpuckett at 6:47 AM on November 5 [8 favorites]
posted by seanmpuckett at 6:47 AM on November 5 [8 favorites]
Nobody who has ever had a surgery would call a surgery a 'quick fix', and the vast majority of surgeries require long periods of rehab and rest. A far smaller number allow people to get back sooner.
I'd say that plenty of people (including those in the NFL, but also lots of regular people) use pain relief as a stand-in for getting necessary surgeries, whether due to cost, scheduling difficulties, or risks of the surgery.
posted by The_Vegetables at 7:21 AM on November 5 [1 favorite]
I'd say that plenty of people (including those in the NFL, but also lots of regular people) use pain relief as a stand-in for getting necessary surgeries, whether due to cost, scheduling difficulties, or risks of the surgery.
posted by The_Vegetables at 7:21 AM on November 5 [1 favorite]
Fucking outliers...
We had to play football in gym class when I was in I think 6th grade, It was nasty. I am not a football sized person. One team, (coaches drafted the players), had two football sized players. They pretty much stomped the shit out of everyone else on the O/D line.
All of my sports injuries have been from soccer, (albeit I was a goalkeeper), with ACL, head wounds, plenty of concussions I'd guess. Ball directly in the face? Save! Next day, why is everything all whooshy?
Football is clearly worse, but any contact sport has the potential for injury and damage. My son plays Water Polo. He was on concussion protocol about a month ago. Two teammates were as well, from a head collision during practice. And then my son got hit again, and woke up with one pupil obviously larger than the other, which is scary. Doc said no concussion though, so that was good.
And I did see on Sunday a Rams player wearing the "squishy helmet" in a game, which I had not ever seen before outside of preseason practices.
posted by Windopaene at 7:22 AM on November 5
We had to play football in gym class when I was in I think 6th grade, It was nasty. I am not a football sized person. One team, (coaches drafted the players), had two football sized players. They pretty much stomped the shit out of everyone else on the O/D line.
All of my sports injuries have been from soccer, (albeit I was a goalkeeper), with ACL, head wounds, plenty of concussions I'd guess. Ball directly in the face? Save! Next day, why is everything all whooshy?
Football is clearly worse, but any contact sport has the potential for injury and damage. My son plays Water Polo. He was on concussion protocol about a month ago. Two teammates were as well, from a head collision during practice. And then my son got hit again, and woke up with one pupil obviously larger than the other, which is scary. Doc said no concussion though, so that was good.
And I did see on Sunday a Rams player wearing the "squishy helmet" in a game, which I had not ever seen before outside of preseason practices.
posted by Windopaene at 7:22 AM on November 5
And I did see on Sunday a Rams player wearing the "squishy helmet" in a game
They are called Guardian Caps.
posted by mmascolino at 7:24 AM on November 5 [3 favorites]
They are called Guardian Caps.
posted by mmascolino at 7:24 AM on November 5 [3 favorites]
Tagovailoa's injuries and how the team handled it is emblematic of the NFL's covert racism and complete disregard for the health of the players. My love of football is slowly dwindling and I don't see it ever coming back.
posted by tommasz at 7:33 AM on November 5 [6 favorites]
posted by tommasz at 7:33 AM on November 5 [6 favorites]
What gets me is how easy it is to make football so much safer:
Limit substitutions. better yet, eliminate them. You step on the field once.
you step off the field once. Now you have to have the physique to run, shove, dig your heels, throw, catch and kick.
If you don't have the physique for all of them, you get cut and have to find another sport.
Done. We still have football. Minus all the CTE.
posted by ocschwar at 9:18 AM on November 5
Limit substitutions. better yet, eliminate them. You step on the field once.
you step off the field once. Now you have to have the physique to run, shove, dig your heels, throw, catch and kick.
If you don't have the physique for all of them, you get cut and have to find another sport.
Done. We still have football. Minus all the CTE.
posted by ocschwar at 9:18 AM on November 5
Football is unconscionable and its facehugger hold on American higher education is a sick joke. Come enrich your brain! Or pound it into jelly, whichever.
posted by Horace Rumpole at 9:36 AM on November 5 [5 favorites]
posted by Horace Rumpole at 9:36 AM on November 5 [5 favorites]
>But the public's concern about that damage – to the extent it ever existed – appears to have evaporated.
I don't think this is true, or at least it's imprecise. Participation in tackle football at the youth/high school level is down. Though it is, of course, uneven across race and political party.
posted by bluefly at 9:53 AM on November 5 [4 favorites]
I don't think this is true, or at least it's imprecise. Participation in tackle football at the youth/high school level is down. Though it is, of course, uneven across race and political party.
posted by bluefly at 9:53 AM on November 5 [4 favorites]
They like smashing and breaking things
yes, like the bodies and brains of other people's children, so they can MAKE MONEY. its disgusting and its child sacrifice, just to different gods.
posted by supermedusa at 10:13 AM on November 5 [2 favorites]
yes, like the bodies and brains of other people's children, so they can MAKE MONEY. its disgusting and its child sacrifice, just to different gods.
posted by supermedusa at 10:13 AM on November 5 [2 favorites]
I don't follow football. I've almost never played it, even though I have a good body type (weightlifter, stocky).
But this brought me up short:
"I love this game,” Tagovailoa said. “And I love it to the death of me.”
posted by doctornemo at 10:44 AM on November 5 [2 favorites]
But this brought me up short:
"I love this game,” Tagovailoa said. “And I love it to the death of me.”
posted by doctornemo at 10:44 AM on November 5 [2 favorites]
I don't follow football on account of a few things and CTE is one of the reasons, but I also enjoy watching hockey and rugby even those have similar CTE issues. I am a hypocrite.
posted by snwod at 11:02 AM on November 5 [3 favorites]
posted by snwod at 11:02 AM on November 5 [3 favorites]
Here in the gathering twilight of middle age, I've just accepted that some critical majority of people don't give a shit about anything other than what feels good in the present moment.
Facts, research, human decency - weak sauce in the face of mindless pleasure.
posted by ryanshepard at 11:29 AM on November 5 [6 favorites]
Facts, research, human decency - weak sauce in the face of mindless pleasure.
posted by ryanshepard at 11:29 AM on November 5 [6 favorites]
Since then, Washington State University has doubled and tripled and quadroupled down on football, at the expense of its academic mission
As someone who studies and works in higher ed, my blindness to sports is a professional weakness, and one I've worked on for years.
So a few quick responses:
-the overwhelming majority of college sports efforts make no money, or just lose dollars. Only a few are profit centers, and that's mostly because of tv contracts.
-that said, many campus leaders tell me they pour money down that hole because it's marketing for students. The investment can pay off when other people do the marketing for the colleges: sports fans, sports media, etc.
-some presidents tell me they use sports to attract male students. Female enrollment has risen to about 60% of the total these days, and those presidents want to keep a gender balance.
-there's sometimes a kind of chain from some students to some alumni who are sports fiends. They turn out for events, raise money, and fight like hell to protect their teams.
-some professors tell me some sports work as affirmative action, attracting black and Latino students to the higher ed experience.
-for public universities, state legislators may be deeply invested in college sports, and will support them to some degree.
Each of these reasons can be powerful enough to overpower mere concerns about player's health.
Now if only I can remember the name of that early 20th century horror novel which turned on the disturbing sounds made by a bunch of football fans in a college stadium...
posted by doctornemo at 12:10 PM on November 5 [4 favorites]
As someone who studies and works in higher ed, my blindness to sports is a professional weakness, and one I've worked on for years.
So a few quick responses:
-the overwhelming majority of college sports efforts make no money, or just lose dollars. Only a few are profit centers, and that's mostly because of tv contracts.
-that said, many campus leaders tell me they pour money down that hole because it's marketing for students. The investment can pay off when other people do the marketing for the colleges: sports fans, sports media, etc.
-some presidents tell me they use sports to attract male students. Female enrollment has risen to about 60% of the total these days, and those presidents want to keep a gender balance.
-there's sometimes a kind of chain from some students to some alumni who are sports fiends. They turn out for events, raise money, and fight like hell to protect their teams.
-some professors tell me some sports work as affirmative action, attracting black and Latino students to the higher ed experience.
-for public universities, state legislators may be deeply invested in college sports, and will support them to some degree.
Each of these reasons can be powerful enough to overpower mere concerns about player's health.
Now if only I can remember the name of that early 20th century horror novel which turned on the disturbing sounds made by a bunch of football fans in a college stadium...
posted by doctornemo at 12:10 PM on November 5 [4 favorites]
Talk to any skateboarder, mountain biker, or snowboarder and you'll get an even higher incidence of those injuries
This comes out kind of the same way as head injuries, I’m guessing? You can get really catastrophically injured in an instant in those sports! But they aren’t a continuous grind of impacts like football.
(exception, maybe, for the kind of pro skateboarders who are jumping down dozens of stairs or falling off rails onto concrete over and over until they land something)
posted by atoxyl at 12:17 PM on November 5 [2 favorites]
This comes out kind of the same way as head injuries, I’m guessing? You can get really catastrophically injured in an instant in those sports! But they aren’t a continuous grind of impacts like football.
(exception, maybe, for the kind of pro skateboarders who are jumping down dozens of stairs or falling off rails onto concrete over and over until they land something)
posted by atoxyl at 12:17 PM on November 5 [2 favorites]
If you are not an athlete, are you really going to a college because or their athletes?
That seems crazy. Great tailgate/fraternity parties on game day I guess.
OTOH, half of my kids have gotten into schools because of their skills in non-revenue sports.
Yeah, knew a snowboarder. She had had like 3 ACLs at 22.
posted by Windopaene at 12:27 PM on November 5
That seems crazy. Great tailgate/fraternity parties on game day I guess.
OTOH, half of my kids have gotten into schools because of their skills in non-revenue sports.
Yeah, knew a snowboarder. She had had like 3 ACLs at 22.
posted by Windopaene at 12:27 PM on November 5
And let me continue...
All contact sports have a risk of injury. So once you start paying people to do this thing...?
Rugby and something else were mentioned upthread. I watch some, and, just no for me. But, they aren't wearing armor like in the NFL. And in my time of watching Rugby, I haven't seen the horrible injuries that I have seen in the NFL.
And let's talk about Aussie Rules Football!
(so awesome)
Back in the mid-80s, I was doing a research project in Shelton, WA.
I was also tripping balls. But ARF was on TV! What a cool game! But, what is on the field? I think those are dead birds? Pigeons? Fucking Seagulls? What is happening!?
And that was the night the Bhopal disaster happened.
Bad set and setting.
Let's hope we don't all wake up in a hellscape
posted by Windopaene at 12:42 PM on November 5 [1 favorite]
All contact sports have a risk of injury. So once you start paying people to do this thing...?
Rugby and something else were mentioned upthread. I watch some, and, just no for me. But, they aren't wearing armor like in the NFL. And in my time of watching Rugby, I haven't seen the horrible injuries that I have seen in the NFL.
And let's talk about Aussie Rules Football!
(so awesome)
Back in the mid-80s, I was doing a research project in Shelton, WA.
I was also tripping balls. But ARF was on TV! What a cool game! But, what is on the field? I think those are dead birds? Pigeons? Fucking Seagulls? What is happening!?
And that was the night the Bhopal disaster happened.
Bad set and setting.
Let's hope we don't all wake up in a hellscape
posted by Windopaene at 12:42 PM on November 5 [1 favorite]
It seems strange to me, Windopaene, but like I said, I'm not a sports fan.
What I hear is that there are around 4,000 colleges and universities in the US, an immense number. Sports can get a school's name in front of teenagers and their families in ways a mailing or brochure blitz won't.
Great tailgate/fraternity parties on game day I guess.
Yup, that counts for a lot for a lot of folks.
posted by doctornemo at 12:51 PM on November 5
What I hear is that there are around 4,000 colleges and universities in the US, an immense number. Sports can get a school's name in front of teenagers and their families in ways a mailing or brochure blitz won't.
Great tailgate/fraternity parties on game day I guess.
Yup, that counts for a lot for a lot of folks.
posted by doctornemo at 12:51 PM on November 5
I got into Football in the 90s heyday in Wisconsin when both the Badgers and Packers were really, really, good.
I had season tickets for the Badgers and everything. When Mike Webster made it to Canton; he came to the game and I got a chance to shake hands with him.
Then I saw the documentary, League of Denial, which was based on his CTE diagnosis and how the pathologist had to fight the NFL to even get this term into circulation.
To see how this man was ravaged within 10 years of my meeting him, the visible aging and the cognitive decline; it shook me.
I have not watched NCAA or NFL after that. I just cannot. In the end; this is just entertainment. I can get that from places where guys don't have to do this to themselves to entertain me. It's Baseball, NBA and FC Barcelona now. And truthfully, I don't miss it.
posted by indianbadger1 at 2:50 PM on November 5 [4 favorites]
I had season tickets for the Badgers and everything. When Mike Webster made it to Canton; he came to the game and I got a chance to shake hands with him.
Then I saw the documentary, League of Denial, which was based on his CTE diagnosis and how the pathologist had to fight the NFL to even get this term into circulation.
To see how this man was ravaged within 10 years of my meeting him, the visible aging and the cognitive decline; it shook me.
I have not watched NCAA or NFL after that. I just cannot. In the end; this is just entertainment. I can get that from places where guys don't have to do this to themselves to entertain me. It's Baseball, NBA and FC Barcelona now. And truthfully, I don't miss it.
posted by indianbadger1 at 2:50 PM on November 5 [4 favorites]
If you are not an athlete, are you really going to a college because or their athletes?
That seems crazy. Great tailgate/fraternity parties on game day I guess.
Nah, it's not that hard to figure out. Sports are a "thing" in the US, and college sports have a cultural presence whether you care about them or not - March Madness is a thing for a lot of people that never attended college, let alone one of the schools actually participating in it.
It's not much of a stretch to imagine someone who wants the whole big state U experience, including big university sports and being of fan of those things, just as a life experience and culture they identify with.
posted by LionIndex at 5:04 PM on November 5 [1 favorite]
That seems crazy. Great tailgate/fraternity parties on game day I guess.
Nah, it's not that hard to figure out. Sports are a "thing" in the US, and college sports have a cultural presence whether you care about them or not - March Madness is a thing for a lot of people that never attended college, let alone one of the schools actually participating in it.
It's not much of a stretch to imagine someone who wants the whole big state U experience, including big university sports and being of fan of those things, just as a life experience and culture they identify with.
posted by LionIndex at 5:04 PM on November 5 [1 favorite]
Sports are a "thing" in the US...
someone who wants the whole big state U experience
See what I mean about marketing?
If you're interested in college sports, I strong recommend James L. Shulman and William G. Bowen's The Game of Life: College Sports and Educational Values. Solid research. Very influential. And both authors were sports fans.
posted by doctornemo at 5:41 PM on November 5 [1 favorite]
someone who wants the whole big state U experience
See what I mean about marketing?
If you're interested in college sports, I strong recommend James L. Shulman and William G. Bowen's The Game of Life: College Sports and Educational Values. Solid research. Very influential. And both authors were sports fans.
posted by doctornemo at 5:41 PM on November 5 [1 favorite]
To see how this man was ravaged within 10 years of my meeting him, the visible aging and the cognitive decline; it shook me.
I think that’s the key to CTE, and I haven’t seen it being addressed: CTE happens after a player retires (with some exceptions such as Aaron Hernandez), and I think that means it’s an autoimmune illness which is caused by antibodies to brain antigens that the immune system normally is never exposed to, but which leak out into the rest of the body when big hits force them out — not necessarily due to just concussions — and over time these antibodies, along with brain reactive T cells also primed by the leaked antigens, get into the brain and wreak havoc.
I think we might be able to prevent CTE in many cases if we could identify and delete B and T cell clones that are attacking players brains.
posted by jamjam at 5:57 PM on November 5 [2 favorites]
I think that’s the key to CTE, and I haven’t seen it being addressed: CTE happens after a player retires (with some exceptions such as Aaron Hernandez), and I think that means it’s an autoimmune illness which is caused by antibodies to brain antigens that the immune system normally is never exposed to, but which leak out into the rest of the body when big hits force them out — not necessarily due to just concussions — and over time these antibodies, along with brain reactive T cells also primed by the leaked antigens, get into the brain and wreak havoc.
I think we might be able to prevent CTE in many cases if we could identify and delete B and T cell clones that are attacking players brains.
posted by jamjam at 5:57 PM on November 5 [2 favorites]
I am completely uninterested in all forms of sportsball, but I have to say that everyone on this thread seems to differ from my opinion.
If I were 21 and someone offered me ten million bucks for a 20 percent chance of brain damage, I’d go for it instantly. At 22 I was thinking of going to work on an oil rig in the gulf, or being a garbage man (I was 22, sue me). If I’d had the vision for it, I’d have been a fighter pilot (not as dangerous as in the 60’s, but still NFL-level hazard without remotely NFL-level money).
You have to give people agency in their lives. It isn’t society’s right to make everyone’s life safe, bland, and boring.
I do agree that high schools simply shouldn’t have football—it *is* society’s job to protect children—but unfortunately parents would come up with some bullshit league thing to replace it. Sportsball seems to be baked into the genome.
posted by Gilgamesh's Chauffeur at 7:12 PM on November 5 [4 favorites]
If I were 21 and someone offered me ten million bucks for a 20 percent chance of brain damage, I’d go for it instantly. At 22 I was thinking of going to work on an oil rig in the gulf, or being a garbage man (I was 22, sue me). If I’d had the vision for it, I’d have been a fighter pilot (not as dangerous as in the 60’s, but still NFL-level hazard without remotely NFL-level money).
You have to give people agency in their lives. It isn’t society’s right to make everyone’s life safe, bland, and boring.
I do agree that high schools simply shouldn’t have football—it *is* society’s job to protect children—but unfortunately parents would come up with some bullshit league thing to replace it. Sportsball seems to be baked into the genome.
posted by Gilgamesh's Chauffeur at 7:12 PM on November 5 [4 favorites]
Prohibiting football for anyone under the age of 18 seems like the only rational option, so of course we're lavishing tax money on shrines to childhood brain damage and urging boys to play football to prove they're real men.
Honestly, it should be prohibited for everyone, adult or child, but if all the "think of the children" people won't even acknowledge it needs to be prohibited for children, well, it's exactly what I have come to expect from America and perfectly in keeping with America's true values.
posted by sotonohito at 7:47 PM on November 5 [3 favorites]
Honestly, it should be prohibited for everyone, adult or child, but if all the "think of the children" people won't even acknowledge it needs to be prohibited for children, well, it's exactly what I have come to expect from America and perfectly in keeping with America's true values.
posted by sotonohito at 7:47 PM on November 5 [3 favorites]
I've had students who were high school cheerleaders write about their injuries, and I've asked the cheerleaders who run the campus lost-and-found fundraiser how many concussions they have had, and the answers are disturbing. more or you can just Google cheerleaders and concussion rates for a depressing read.
posted by mecran01 at 9:12 PM on November 5 [1 favorite]
posted by mecran01 at 9:12 PM on November 5 [1 favorite]
There is not one doubt in my mind that white/Black and brown race relations would be in much, much worse shape than they are now if it weren’t for the NFL and collegiate football.
As one indicator, there is scarcely a bigot to be found in a city with a losing team who would not be deliriously happy to have Pat Mahomes or Lamar Jackson as quarterback for their team over any white quarterback you could name, living, dead, or retired. That would have been unthinkable a generation and a half back.
That does not in any way justify the human sacrifice we’ve made to achieve that, but it’s not nothing, either.
posted by jamjam at 9:26 PM on November 5 [2 favorites]
As one indicator, there is scarcely a bigot to be found in a city with a losing team who would not be deliriously happy to have Pat Mahomes or Lamar Jackson as quarterback for their team over any white quarterback you could name, living, dead, or retired. That would have been unthinkable a generation and a half back.
That does not in any way justify the human sacrifice we’ve made to achieve that, but it’s not nothing, either.
posted by jamjam at 9:26 PM on November 5 [2 favorites]
I think I saw a commenter on YouTube describe the long result of cheerleading as "pretty girls in wheelchairs."
posted by jamjam at 9:30 PM on November 5
posted by jamjam at 9:30 PM on November 5
I think that’s the key to CTE, and I haven’t seen it being addressed: CTE happens after a player retires (with some exceptions such as Aaron Hernandez), and I think that means it’s an autoimmune illness
The pathology is regularly detectable in college or even high school players who die of unrelated causes, so “happens after” does not seem like the right phrasing, but it is progressive after their careers end (and often not overtly symptomatic until some time after) which is presumably the bigger thing you’re getting at.
posted by atoxyl at 10:30 PM on November 5 [1 favorite]
The pathology is regularly detectable in college or even high school players who die of unrelated causes, so “happens after” does not seem like the right phrasing, but it is progressive after their careers end (and often not overtly symptomatic until some time after) which is presumably the bigger thing you’re getting at.
posted by atoxyl at 10:30 PM on November 5 [1 favorite]
"pretty girls in wheelchairs" is from this comment by NoxAeternum quoting the showrunner for Leverage.
posted by soelo at 10:36 AM on November 6 [1 favorite]
posted by soelo at 10:36 AM on November 6 [1 favorite]
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