They came to Columbus, and what happened next, they did not see coming.
November 28, 2024 7:41 PM Subscribe
“We do this all over the U.S., and we’ve never been attacked like this" Residents of Columbus, Ohio express their displeasure to a group of visiting Nazi protesters
Texas unveils its new border-area ranch, site of proposed deportation detention facility
The first National Socialist mention of ‘concentration [detention] camp’ can be found early as 1921, taken from the Nazi propaganda publication Völkischer Beobachter: ‘One can prevent the Jewish [immigrant] hollowing-out of our people by, if necessary, isolating those responsible in concentration [detention] camps.’
posted by robbyrobs at 8:00 PM on November 28 [12 favorites]
The first National Socialist mention of ‘concentration [detention] camp’ can be found early as 1921, taken from the Nazi propaganda publication Völkischer Beobachter: ‘One can prevent the Jewish [immigrant] hollowing-out of our people by, if necessary, isolating those responsible in concentration [detention] camps.’
posted by robbyrobs at 8:00 PM on November 28 [12 favorites]
Fuck 'em, the cowards. And wow, the police must have been going out of their way to accommodate these fucks. A dozen masked men, some of them armed, refusing to unmask or provide identification, coming from a violent confrontation, yelling at the cops, and the police do basically nothing. Had the skin visible under those masks been anything other than white, I'm sure the police would have found plenty of reasons to detain, arrest, and brutalize the lot of them.
posted by Saxon Kane at 8:23 PM on November 28 [87 favorites]
posted by Saxon Kane at 8:23 PM on November 28 [87 favorites]
The driver, identified on the police report as a known white supremacist provided a Louisiana driver's license when police explained that he legally had to.
And why isn't he named in the article?
posted by Literaryhero at 8:35 PM on November 28 [49 favorites]
And why isn't he named in the article?
posted by Literaryhero at 8:35 PM on November 28 [49 favorites]
Had the skin visible under those masks been anything other than white, I'm sure the police would have found plenty of reasons to detain, arrest, and brutalize the lot of them.
The ACABs aren't going to arrest their own.
posted by Pedantzilla at 9:11 PM on November 28 [33 favorites]
The ACABs aren't going to arrest their own.
posted by Pedantzilla at 9:11 PM on November 28 [33 favorites]
If you follow Saeed Jones on Bluesky you can find all the info on this you'd want (interested parties certainly do know the whos and whats, although no, they are not being reported in the Dispatch, which is a right of center newspaper -- I used to live in Columbus and so did Saeed Jones). The march was infuriating but the local response by citizens was extremely heartening.
Columbus itself is probably the most left-leaning city in the Midwest and basically where LGBTQIA people go when they can't afford to move to a coastal city.
(I'm sorry, it's late Thanksgiving evening and I'm tired, and this news is actually a few days old for me, so I'm not up to digging up the info right now. But the dude and group's name is not hard to find if you want it -- it has thankfully been widely reported in venues better than the, /spits, Dispatch.)
posted by verbminx at 9:18 PM on November 28 [22 favorites]
Columbus itself is probably the most left-leaning city in the Midwest and basically where LGBTQIA people go when they can't afford to move to a coastal city.
(I'm sorry, it's late Thanksgiving evening and I'm tired, and this news is actually a few days old for me, so I'm not up to digging up the info right now. But the dude and group's name is not hard to find if you want it -- it has thankfully been widely reported in venues better than the, /spits, Dispatch.)
posted by verbminx at 9:18 PM on November 28 [22 favorites]
Nazism is an inherently and fundamentally violent ideology so there's no such thing as a non-violent Nazi or Nazi event.
You can tell that the majority of people involved on the Nazi side are fundamentally weak and cowardly: they talk a big game but cover their faces, hide behind police protection, and immediately present themselves as the victims when meeting actual resistance.
The response from both sides is very heartening, residents of Columbus stepping up and the neo Nazis cowering down.
posted by slimepuppy at 12:53 AM on November 29 [28 favorites]
You can tell that the majority of people involved on the Nazi side are fundamentally weak and cowardly: they talk a big game but cover their faces, hide behind police protection, and immediately present themselves as the victims when meeting actual resistance.
The response from both sides is very heartening, residents of Columbus stepping up and the neo Nazis cowering down.
posted by slimepuppy at 12:53 AM on November 29 [28 favorites]
Columbus itself is probably the most left-leaning city in the Midwest
Says who? I can easily think of five examples more "left leaning" than Columbus, Ohio.
posted by readyfreddy at 1:15 AM on November 29 [9 favorites]
Says who? I can easily think of five examples more "left leaning" than Columbus, Ohio.
posted by readyfreddy at 1:15 AM on November 29 [9 favorites]
Columbus itself is probably the most left-leaning city in the Midwest
Says who? I can easily think of five examples more "left leaning" than Columbus, Ohio.
Madison so surprised by this statement it dropped a full container of nutritional yeast all over itself
posted by taquito sunrise at 2:50 AM on November 29 [97 favorites]
Says who? I can easily think of five examples more "left leaning" than Columbus, Ohio.
Madison so surprised by this statement it dropped a full container of nutritional yeast all over itself
posted by taquito sunrise at 2:50 AM on November 29 [97 favorites]
From the article:
They complained about being told to keep their hands above their heads, saying they were losing circulation. One complained that he had to use the bathroom.
What utter spoilt children.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 3:30 AM on November 29 [21 favorites]
They complained about being told to keep their hands above their heads, saying they were losing circulation. One complained that he had to use the bathroom.
What utter spoilt children.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 3:30 AM on November 29 [21 favorites]
You can tell that the majority of people involved on the Nazi side are fundamentally weak and cowardly: they talk a big game but cover their faces, hide behind police protection, and immediately present themselves as the victims when meeting actual resistance.
Actual in real life NAZIs did NAZI that coming.
posted by y2karl at 4:13 AM on November 29 [6 favorites]
Actual in real life NAZIs did NAZI that coming.
posted by y2karl at 4:13 AM on November 29 [6 favorites]
Less than 24 hours after a dozen or so masked Nazis walked the streets of the Short North on Saturday, Brian Winston, president of 100 Black Men of Central Ohio, helped lead a counterdemonstration meant to reclaim power and shift the narrative.
posted by atom128 at 5:38 AM on November 29 [25 favorites]
posted by atom128 at 5:38 AM on November 29 [25 favorites]
Columbus itself is probably the most left-leaning city in the Midwest
So, what should we do first?
Come to a consensus on how to measure 'left-leaning,' reach an agreed-upon definition of 'city,' or clearly define the boundaries of 'Midwest'?
posted by box at 6:03 AM on November 29 [35 favorites]
So, what should we do first?
Come to a consensus on how to measure 'left-leaning,' reach an agreed-upon definition of 'city,' or clearly define the boundaries of 'Midwest'?
posted by box at 6:03 AM on November 29 [35 favorites]
Seems to me that carrying a swastika flag is a hate crime. And probable cause to get your ass beat down by anyone who wants to.
But hey I’m not a cop, so go ahead and keep hiding behind the first amendment, cowards
posted by caution live frogs at 6:11 AM on November 29 [9 favorites]
But hey I’m not a cop, so go ahead and keep hiding behind the first amendment, cowards
posted by caution live frogs at 6:11 AM on November 29 [9 favorites]
Nazism is an inherently and fundamentally violent ideology so there's no such thing as a non-violent Nazi or Nazi event.
Corollary: There is no such thing as violence against Nazis. All actions taken against any Nazi, in any context, in any location, at any distance, by any means, is an act of self-defense.
posted by JohnFromGR at 6:33 AM on November 29 [70 favorites]
Corollary: There is no such thing as violence against Nazis. All actions taken against any Nazi, in any context, in any location, at any distance, by any means, is an act of self-defense.
posted by JohnFromGR at 6:33 AM on November 29 [70 favorites]
Tolerance is a peace treaty, not a suicide pact. If you decline to peacefully with others and call for their destruction you have forfeited all rights for them to leave you in peace.
posted by Your Childhood Pet Rock at 6:36 AM on November 29 [23 favorites]
posted by Your Childhood Pet Rock at 6:36 AM on November 29 [23 favorites]
Columbus police released the name of the Louisiana person (WOSU, Ohio-State-linked NPR station): Anthony James Altick
Also includes this quote:
As the Nazis walked back to their vehicle, another officer remarked sarcastically "Protected by a bunch of Black officers. Ain't America Great?" That remark elicited laughs from the other officers.
posted by box at 6:42 AM on November 29 [19 favorites]
Also includes this quote:
As the Nazis walked back to their vehicle, another officer remarked sarcastically "Protected by a bunch of Black officers. Ain't America Great?" That remark elicited laughs from the other officers.
posted by box at 6:42 AM on November 29 [19 favorites]
Unless it’s fake there’s a picture of the group without their masks on circulating on the socials. So they will probably all be identified.
posted by snuffleupagus at 7:15 AM on November 29 [5 favorites]
posted by snuffleupagus at 7:15 AM on November 29 [5 favorites]
On Facebook, Anthony James Altick is a bit jammed up right now but, boy, most of his score or so of mostly pictured friends there are probably not that enthused with this sudden burst of attention as they too did NAZI this coming.
posted by y2karl at 7:24 AM on November 29 [3 favorites]
posted by y2karl at 7:24 AM on November 29 [3 favorites]
Can I just stick my head in here from another left-leaning Midwestern city and say: I've never been to Columbus, Ohio, but I've heard very good things about it. K, thanks, bye.
posted by gimonca at 7:30 AM on November 29 [9 favorites]
posted by gimonca at 7:30 AM on November 29 [9 favorites]
A moratorium on nazi puns? pls?
posted by ginger.beef at 8:46 AM on November 29 [8 favorites]
posted by ginger.beef at 8:46 AM on November 29 [8 favorites]
MetaFilter: I definitely feel your First Amendment rights to say whatever nonsense this is, but c'mon, man.
posted by The Ardship of Cambry at 9:21 AM on November 29 [13 favorites]
posted by The Ardship of Cambry at 9:21 AM on November 29 [13 favorites]
Punch a nazi today!
posted by grumpybear69 at 9:50 AM on November 29 [3 favorites]
posted by grumpybear69 at 9:50 AM on November 29 [3 favorites]
This brings me great joy in a time of great sadness.
posted by tommasz at 10:00 AM on November 29 [4 favorites]
posted by tommasz at 10:00 AM on November 29 [4 favorites]
With any luck the reelection of Trump and proof that far too many white Americans are openly racist is going to result in some pushback against the white supremacist scum.
Remember when being anti-Nazi was totally uncontroversial and they were the go to villains in more or less any modern media? Indiana Jones punched Nazis, the Blues Bothers hated Illinois Nazis, William "B.J." Blazkowicz gunned down zillions of Nazis at Castle Wolfenstein, it was glorious. Then the Nazis got bolder and things changed.
Make America unsafe for Nazis again.
posted by sotonohito at 10:07 AM on November 29 [33 favorites]
Remember when being anti-Nazi was totally uncontroversial and they were the go to villains in more or less any modern media? Indiana Jones punched Nazis, the Blues Bothers hated Illinois Nazis, William "B.J." Blazkowicz gunned down zillions of Nazis at Castle Wolfenstein, it was glorious. Then the Nazis got bolder and things changed.
Make America unsafe for Nazis again.
posted by sotonohito at 10:07 AM on November 29 [33 favorites]
Columbus may or may not be the most left-leaning city in the Midwest, but it definitely is the most recent city whose citizenry ran a bunch of cowardly Nazi wannabies, complete with their black clothes and "scary" masks, out of town. And in my view that is something to laud.
posted by moonbiter at 10:16 AM on November 29 [26 favorites]
posted by moonbiter at 10:16 AM on November 29 [26 favorites]
Speaking as a Madisonian, I'm happy to share a left-lean podium with Columbus and any other Midwest city that wants to join us. Let's do this thing.
(And let's just be clear about one thing: Madison is hella racist and only maybe beginning to be better.)
Also it wasn't nutritional yeast. It was Spotted Cow, because of course it was.
posted by humbug at 10:18 AM on November 29 [16 favorites]
(And let's just be clear about one thing: Madison is hella racist and only maybe beginning to be better.)
Also it wasn't nutritional yeast. It was Spotted Cow, because of course it was.
posted by humbug at 10:18 AM on November 29 [16 favorites]
Make America unsafe for Nazis again.
MAUFNA. Pronounced like "Sauron".
posted by ishmael at 10:26 AM on November 29 [1 favorite]
MAUFNA. Pronounced like "Sauron".
posted by ishmael at 10:26 AM on November 29 [1 favorite]
As a Polish person, it still blows my mind that Nazi symbols and Nazi demonstrations are legal in the US.
Are any hate groups actually illegal?
Just trying to understand, here.
posted by M. at 10:41 AM on November 29 [8 favorites]
Are any hate groups actually illegal?
Just trying to understand, here.
posted by M. at 10:41 AM on November 29 [8 favorites]
I grew up in Springfield, my brother still lives there. My sisters and some nieces/nephews live in Columbus. The most Columbus, Ohio comment is The [Ohio State Universit]) Buckeyes are playing. Man, come on. OSU football dominates. Good on Columbus for Resisting. Gonna be a long 4 or more years.
posted by theora55 at 11:10 AM on November 29 [1 favorite]
posted by theora55 at 11:10 AM on November 29 [1 favorite]
*digs in couch for sympathy*
Nope! Fresh out! But I’ve got a fresh pitcher of No Fucks To Give … hello?
No? Well, piss off, assholes.
posted by JustSayNoDawg at 11:13 AM on November 29 [4 favorites]
Nope! Fresh out! But I’ve got a fresh pitcher of No Fucks To Give … hello?
No? Well, piss off, assholes.
posted by JustSayNoDawg at 11:13 AM on November 29 [4 favorites]
For those of you wondering why this allowed, it is a result of the First Amedment and this Supreme Court decision from 1977.
posted by jvbthegolfer at 11:57 AM on November 29 [7 favorites]
posted by jvbthegolfer at 11:57 AM on November 29 [7 favorites]
Until a final solution can be found for the Nazi problem, laughter at their expense is appropriate, even necessary. But... a moratorium on nazi puns? The significance was unclear to me at first (I had to concentrate) but of course! A building like a planetarium, but replacing the planets with...more nazi puns!
I like where your train of thought is goering, anne frankly, I approve.
I appreciate your post, I just personally think this is ineffective humour. I too have heard all about deflating fascism by mocking it, and maybe it's just me but the above is ghoulishly tone deaf
posted by ginger.beef at 11:59 AM on November 29 [13 favorites]
I like where your train of thought is goering, anne frankly, I approve.
I appreciate your post, I just personally think this is ineffective humour. I too have heard all about deflating fascism by mocking it, and maybe it's just me but the above is ghoulishly tone deaf
posted by ginger.beef at 11:59 AM on November 29 [13 favorites]
I think the problem with “defeating through mockery” is that we’ve created public figures without shame and a public that does not appear to care enough to shun the patently malevolent. Without that, mockery gives a brief comfort but no lasting effects.
posted by GenjiandProust at 12:59 PM on November 29 [17 favorites]
posted by GenjiandProust at 12:59 PM on November 29 [17 favorites]
I think the problem with “defeating through mockery” is that we’ve created public figures without shame and a public that does not appear to care enough to shun the patently malevolent.
Part of the problem there is that we've been marinating in a culture that has been pushing the idea that shunning is wrong for several decades now. Some of that was well meaning, while a good portion was bad actors trying to argue that telling people to fuck off for their words and actions violated things like "free speech".
Whatever the source, the lesson has been that it's somehow wrong to hold people accountable for their harms and push them out - hence all the outright attacks on the freedom of association you see these days.
posted by NoxAeternum at 1:12 PM on November 29 [5 favorites]
Part of the problem there is that we've been marinating in a culture that has been pushing the idea that shunning is wrong for several decades now. Some of that was well meaning, while a good portion was bad actors trying to argue that telling people to fuck off for their words and actions violated things like "free speech".
Whatever the source, the lesson has been that it's somehow wrong to hold people accountable for their harms and push them out - hence all the outright attacks on the freedom of association you see these days.
posted by NoxAeternum at 1:12 PM on November 29 [5 favorites]
Another thought:
“We do this all over the U.S., and we’ve never been attacked like this"
Would it be petty of me to hope that this is the start of a trend, then?
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 1:32 PM on November 29 [15 favorites]
“We do this all over the U.S., and we’ve never been attacked like this"
Would it be petty of me to hope that this is the start of a trend, then?
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 1:32 PM on November 29 [15 favorites]
Also it wasn't nutritional yeast. It was Spotted Cow, because of course it was.
And now I know of Spotted Cow because of course I do.
Another thing about spotted cows in general is that they totally love serenades of live music, by accordionists and especially concertina players.
posted by y2karl at 1:51 PM on November 29 [7 favorites]
And now I know of Spotted Cow because of course I do.
Another thing about spotted cows in general is that they totally love serenades of live music, by accordionists and especially concertina players.
posted by y2karl at 1:51 PM on November 29 [7 favorites]
I too am in favor of the moratorium if only because it’s not really even “nazi puns” so much as just the one pun being reused over and over, and we must be strong enough to recognize when our own side needs to get new material
posted by DoctorFedora at 2:11 PM on November 29 [9 favorites]
posted by DoctorFedora at 2:11 PM on November 29 [9 favorites]
Some 'culture' should be cancelled, forcefully if required.
Nazis, for example.
posted by Pouteria at 2:54 PM on November 29 [2 favorites]
Nazis, for example.
posted by Pouteria at 2:54 PM on November 29 [2 favorites]
"and we must be strong enough to recognize when our own side needs to get new material"
Well, yes but so is MetaFilter: You name it but nobody's having a cow over that, spotted or not.
posted by y2karl at 3:14 PM on November 29 [2 favorites]
Well, yes but so is MetaFilter: You name it but nobody's having a cow over that, spotted or not.
posted by y2karl at 3:14 PM on November 29 [2 favorites]
I wonder how many of you calling the Nazi’s cowards for wearing a mask carry pepper spray and will be prepared for your inevitable next moment with them… surely you’ll get your chance since I’m told we just elected a fascist. It shouldn’t matter what symbol is being used to justify genocide and the dehumanizing hate that breeds it. Send us your pics when you confront the perpetrators of hate or the national guard taking your neighbors to deportment camps. Otherwise you seem a bit dime a dozen key board kettle black warriors. Everyone is brave on the internet.
posted by astrobiophysican at 3:28 PM on November 29 [1 favorite]
posted by astrobiophysican at 3:28 PM on November 29 [1 favorite]
I mean, I sometimes have a little travel-sized thing of hot sauce.
posted by box at 3:32 PM on November 29 [7 favorites]
posted by box at 3:32 PM on November 29 [7 favorites]
As an Ohioan I'm just happy to hear some folks stood up to these monsters. I heard about their little march when it happened, but not that people were assaulting them. I agree with everyone else who said that punching Nazis is the correct choice. And no, I'm not particularly tough or brave. But these are dark times.
posted by SystematicAbuse at 4:12 PM on November 29 [10 favorites]
posted by SystematicAbuse at 4:12 PM on November 29 [10 favorites]
Now let’s hang on just a minute… shouldn’t we be calmly taking the high road and debating our fellow Americans in the marketpl…
Ah, hahaha I can’t even finish.
posted by Devils Rancher at 4:28 PM on November 29 [6 favorites]
Ah, hahaha I can’t even finish.
posted by Devils Rancher at 4:28 PM on November 29 [6 favorites]
I wonder how many of you calling the Nazi’s cowards for wearing a mask carry pepper spray and will be prepared for your inevitable next moment with them [....] Otherwise you seem a bit dime a dozen key board kettle black warriors. Everyone is brave on the internet.
I'm sorry, are you... defending the fucking Nazis? Are you standing up for them against all the meanies who call them cowards?
Let me explain why they are cowards: They dress up like little toy soldiers, and they march around shouting about the noble white race and how they are proud warriors trying to keep their blood pure and whatever other bullshit they spew, and they try to bully individuals and incite violence -- but at the slightest hint of confrontation or a fair fight -- any situation in which they don't overwhelmingly outnumber their opponents -- they run like cockroaches and hide behind the cops. They won't show their faces because they are only brave when they can be an anonymous mass of assholes and there's no chance they will be held accountable for their actions. They are losers who don't want their coworkers and neighbors knowing that they are hate-filled little chickenshits, because then they might face consequences.
I'm not particularly brave, but then again, I AM NOT MARCHING IN THE STREETS SHOUTING ABOUT HOW TOUGH AND BRAVE I AM WITH ALL MY LITTLE COSPLAY BUDDIES AND THEN RUNNING TO HIDE BEHIND THE POLICE WHEN I GET IN TROUBLE.
since I’m told we just elected a fascist
Suggesting you think TFG ... isn't a fascist?
It shouldn’t matter what symbol is being used to justify genocide and the dehumanizing hate that breeds it.
Not even sure what this is supposed to mean or be in reference to.
posted by Saxon Kane at 4:39 PM on November 29 [22 favorites]
I'm sorry, are you... defending the fucking Nazis? Are you standing up for them against all the meanies who call them cowards?
Let me explain why they are cowards: They dress up like little toy soldiers, and they march around shouting about the noble white race and how they are proud warriors trying to keep their blood pure and whatever other bullshit they spew, and they try to bully individuals and incite violence -- but at the slightest hint of confrontation or a fair fight -- any situation in which they don't overwhelmingly outnumber their opponents -- they run like cockroaches and hide behind the cops. They won't show their faces because they are only brave when they can be an anonymous mass of assholes and there's no chance they will be held accountable for their actions. They are losers who don't want their coworkers and neighbors knowing that they are hate-filled little chickenshits, because then they might face consequences.
I'm not particularly brave, but then again, I AM NOT MARCHING IN THE STREETS SHOUTING ABOUT HOW TOUGH AND BRAVE I AM WITH ALL MY LITTLE COSPLAY BUDDIES AND THEN RUNNING TO HIDE BEHIND THE POLICE WHEN I GET IN TROUBLE.
since I’m told we just elected a fascist
Suggesting you think TFG ... isn't a fascist?
It shouldn’t matter what symbol is being used to justify genocide and the dehumanizing hate that breeds it.
Not even sure what this is supposed to mean or be in reference to.
posted by Saxon Kane at 4:39 PM on November 29 [22 favorites]
There are literally thousands of videos available online of cops ordering/dragging passengers out of cars and quoting their Supreme Court right to do on traffic stops. How is it the same didn't happen here? And yeah, the line about the OSU game about to start was pretty funny and exactly in keeping with life in Ohio (former Buckeye here.)
posted by etaoin at 4:45 PM on November 29 [6 favorites]
posted by etaoin at 4:45 PM on November 29 [6 favorites]
Between the choice between controlling how one feels about what other people say in their posts or comments and actually attempting to control what other people can say or post, I will always prefer the former to the latter. Karens Über Alles is not the ideal solution in my book.
posted by y2karl at 4:50 PM on November 29 [1 favorite]
posted by y2karl at 4:50 PM on November 29 [1 favorite]
For the record, I'm not a puns guy but live and let live
y2karl, 2 nazi/"not see" puns in one thread? I mean, am I the Karen? Are we still doing Karen? Please Kyle me then
And any attempt to mock fucking Nazis with a play on Final Solution and let's trivialize Anne Frank while we're at it. Should've flagged, commented instead, this is not how we fight Nazis
posted by ginger.beef at 5:02 PM on November 29 [3 favorites]
y2karl, 2 nazi/"not see" puns in one thread? I mean, am I the Karen? Are we still doing Karen? Please Kyle me then
And any attempt to mock fucking Nazis with a play on Final Solution and let's trivialize Anne Frank while we're at it. Should've flagged, commented instead, this is not how we fight Nazis
posted by ginger.beef at 5:02 PM on November 29 [3 favorites]
Mod note: Hello! Let’s try to move on from the derail and remember we’re on the same anti-nazi side.
posted by Brandon Blatcher (staff) at 5:48 PM on November 29 [1 favorite]
posted by Brandon Blatcher (staff) at 5:48 PM on November 29 [1 favorite]
Are any hate groups actually illegal?
Just trying to understand, here.
Nope, the US Supreme Court has ruled that the First Amendment to the US Constitution means the government can't criminalize hate groups or hate speech. The upside is that it means the US can't criminalize the Communist Party either, or at least so far it does.
The downside is that it means the KKK, various Neo-Nazi organizations, various militia movements, and so on are all legal and operate openly.
The argument given for keeping such a maximalist interpretation of the 1st is often "do you want Trump deciding who's a hate group?"
posted by sotonohito at 5:54 PM on November 29 [5 favorites]
Just trying to understand, here.
Nope, the US Supreme Court has ruled that the First Amendment to the US Constitution means the government can't criminalize hate groups or hate speech. The upside is that it means the US can't criminalize the Communist Party either, or at least so far it does.
The downside is that it means the KKK, various Neo-Nazi organizations, various militia movements, and so on are all legal and operate openly.
The argument given for keeping such a maximalist interpretation of the 1st is often "do you want Trump deciding who's a hate group?"
posted by sotonohito at 5:54 PM on November 29 [5 favorites]
And any attempt to mock fucking Nazis with a play on Final Solution and let's trivialize Anne Frank while we're at it
Oh, for Christ's sake! Such complete and utter what comes out of the Bull. Tell it to the Dead Kennedys then. Or search Über Alles onsite here. I will bet you the phrase X Über Alles entered the common parlance long long before the internet ever went online.
posted by y2karl at 6:50 PM on November 29 [3 favorites]
Oh, for Christ's sake! Such complete and utter what comes out of the Bull. Tell it to the Dead Kennedys then. Or search Über Alles onsite here. I will bet you the phrase X Über Alles entered the common parlance long long before the internet ever went online.
posted by y2karl at 6:50 PM on November 29 [3 favorites]
The argument given for keeping such a maximalist interpretation of the 1st is often "do you want Trump deciding who's a hate group?"
To which the response is "what, exactly, is going to stop him?"
This is why binding our hands will never bind theirs is so important to understand - that the supposed safety said maximalist interpretation provides has always been questionable, as they are quite happy to toss it aside as soon as it no longer benefits them.
posted by NoxAeternum at 7:18 PM on November 29 [10 favorites]
To which the response is "what, exactly, is going to stop him?"
This is why binding our hands will never bind theirs is so important to understand - that the supposed safety said maximalist interpretation provides has always been questionable, as they are quite happy to toss it aside as soon as it no longer benefits them.
posted by NoxAeternum at 7:18 PM on November 29 [10 favorites]
This is why binding our hands will never bind theirs is so important to understand - that the supposed safety said maximalist interpretation provides has always been questionable, as they are quite happy to toss it aside as soon as it no longer benefits them.
posted by NoxAeternum
If one side is always prepared to dive ever deeper into the cesspit, that fundamentally changes the game, and you have no choice but to do what is required to stop them, and take back power over your own life. Hitler was not stopped by appeals to his better angels. Because he had none. Indeed, he had only complete contempt for that approach, regarding it as a weakness to be openly mocked and sneered at, and ruthlessly exploited. Same as Trump, Putin, Bannon, etc.
posted by Pouteria at 7:48 PM on November 29 [7 favorites]
posted by NoxAeternum
If one side is always prepared to dive ever deeper into the cesspit, that fundamentally changes the game, and you have no choice but to do what is required to stop them, and take back power over your own life. Hitler was not stopped by appeals to his better angels. Because he had none. Indeed, he had only complete contempt for that approach, regarding it as a weakness to be openly mocked and sneered at, and ruthlessly exploited. Same as Trump, Putin, Bannon, etc.
posted by Pouteria at 7:48 PM on November 29 [7 favorites]
Mod note: One deleted. Making fun of the murder of millions of Jews and one young girl in particular? Like haha, funny stuff? What ... I don't ... I ... I'm beyond confused. Will try to figure this out when more awake, but I don't see any universe in which this is okay on mefi.
posted by taz (staff) at 10:43 PM on November 29 [3 favorites]
posted by taz (staff) at 10:43 PM on November 29 [3 favorites]
I don't see any universe in which this is okay on mefi.
I posted it, and it's not okay. What mefi and Columbus have in common is that there are people that moderate the content.
In the wake of the recent election, not looking forward to the US turning into 4Chan.
posted by otherchaz at 7:54 AM on November 30 [1 favorite]
I posted it, and it's not okay. What mefi and Columbus have in common is that there are people that moderate the content.
In the wake of the recent election, not looking forward to the US turning into 4Chan.
posted by otherchaz at 7:54 AM on November 30 [1 favorite]
y2karl, not only is the nazi pun implied in the title of the post and my initial comment a suggestion that your two subsequent uses of the pun might be overkill, but.. no, it's a free enough world and you can go to your grave using any old analogies and clever word plays you like. Never back down, give Jello my regards, you're clearly fighting alongside him. As for puns, this thread has been sitting here all along
posted by ginger.beef at 8:49 AM on November 30 [1 favorite]
posted by ginger.beef at 8:49 AM on November 30 [1 favorite]
Send us your pics when you confront the perpetrators of hate or the national guard taking your neighbors to deportment camps. Otherwise you seem a bit dime a dozen key board kettle black warriors. Everyone is brave on the internet.
Greetings, o brave gatekeeper of stolen virtue, or whatever the hell such nonsense you're on about. Where may I present my bona fides, such that I can keep contributing to the rollicking good times we're all having discussing how best to drive nazis out of our back yards? Because the last time Trump was in office, my extremely-blue coastal city played host to lots of impromptu nazi LARPers, once they discovered the police are on their side and they'll face no consequences for their actions. I've got pictures from the front lines of the counterprotest on Boston Common, shortly before the entire combined police forces of all of eastern Massachusetts shoved us all to the ground because we wouldn't make way for the nice white supremacists in police wagons trying to beat a hasty retreat when they realized they were outnumbered 1,000-to-1; will that suffice? Or the many, many comments I've made publicly here over the years about local efforts to keep drag-story-hours at the local library nazi-free? Or how to every-so-gently discourage the forced-birth advocates, who like to show up in our fair city every time it looks like the national climate has warmed to their cause?
Punching nazis is praxis, friend. And you know what we call folks carrying water for nazis? That's right: nazis.
posted by Mayor West at 9:54 AM on November 30 [17 favorites]
Greetings, o brave gatekeeper of stolen virtue, or whatever the hell such nonsense you're on about. Where may I present my bona fides, such that I can keep contributing to the rollicking good times we're all having discussing how best to drive nazis out of our back yards? Because the last time Trump was in office, my extremely-blue coastal city played host to lots of impromptu nazi LARPers, once they discovered the police are on their side and they'll face no consequences for their actions. I've got pictures from the front lines of the counterprotest on Boston Common, shortly before the entire combined police forces of all of eastern Massachusetts shoved us all to the ground because we wouldn't make way for the nice white supremacists in police wagons trying to beat a hasty retreat when they realized they were outnumbered 1,000-to-1; will that suffice? Or the many, many comments I've made publicly here over the years about local efforts to keep drag-story-hours at the local library nazi-free? Or how to every-so-gently discourage the forced-birth advocates, who like to show up in our fair city every time it looks like the national climate has warmed to their cause?
Punching nazis is praxis, friend. And you know what we call folks carrying water for nazis? That's right: nazis.
posted by Mayor West at 9:54 AM on November 30 [17 favorites]
A moratorium on nazi puns? pls?
posted by ginger.beef at 8:46 on November 29
Now that you are assured that this space is safe from Nazi puns, do you mind if I ask why you made that request? Asking sincerely in the spirit of dialogue.
posted by otherchaz at 11:01 AM on November 30
posted by ginger.beef at 8:46 on November 29
Now that you are assured that this space is safe from Nazi puns, do you mind if I ask why you made that request? Asking sincerely in the spirit of dialogue.
posted by otherchaz at 11:01 AM on November 30
I realize the poor has horse has had enough, but as an amateur comedian and a Jew, I really enjoyed reading this book:
https://books.google.ca/books/about/Dead_Funny.html?id=aTIsAPQO1L0C&redir_esc=y
It’s a history of humour during the third reich, and one thing it states unequivocally is that when Hitler began his move to consolidate power people were openly dismissive and made fun of the SS. Once Hitler had enough power that kind of behaviour was obviously illegal and also deadly.
In general there was no effective humour in Germany aside from potty jokes and mandated ‘funny’ propaganda.
While I appreciate that not everyone loves the same type of humour, I do think the capacity to laugh at what scares us is extremely important and valuable, you absolutely do not have to laugh or even like it, but it should exist.
It is interesting to note that I am vehemently opposed to jokes made at the expense of other groups of people, (eg trans folk) when those jokes are so transparently also made from a place of fear. So I also accept that my opinion is a knife that cannot cut both ways.
Anyways, it’s a really difficult time for everyone, and I appreciate mefi for being a place we can all express ourselves and be in conflict sometimes and still get through to the other side in one piece :) I’ll continue thinking about how humour and anti fascism intersect.
posted by MirJoy at 12:06 PM on November 30 [2 favorites]
https://books.google.ca/books/about/Dead_Funny.html?id=aTIsAPQO1L0C&redir_esc=y
It’s a history of humour during the third reich, and one thing it states unequivocally is that when Hitler began his move to consolidate power people were openly dismissive and made fun of the SS. Once Hitler had enough power that kind of behaviour was obviously illegal and also deadly.
In general there was no effective humour in Germany aside from potty jokes and mandated ‘funny’ propaganda.
While I appreciate that not everyone loves the same type of humour, I do think the capacity to laugh at what scares us is extremely important and valuable, you absolutely do not have to laugh or even like it, but it should exist.
It is interesting to note that I am vehemently opposed to jokes made at the expense of other groups of people, (eg trans folk) when those jokes are so transparently also made from a place of fear. So I also accept that my opinion is a knife that cannot cut both ways.
Anyways, it’s a really difficult time for everyone, and I appreciate mefi for being a place we can all express ourselves and be in conflict sometimes and still get through to the other side in one piece :) I’ll continue thinking about how humour and anti fascism intersect.
posted by MirJoy at 12:06 PM on November 30 [2 favorites]
But anyway, back to the actual Nazis in Columbus....
I understand someone posted their photos somewhere, do we know anything about whether anyone else has been identified? I know that something similar happened after the Tiki Torch Rally in Charlottesville, where there was a whole Shitter thread devoted to a couple of screenshots of the video they ran where users were trying to identify people so they could alert their employers. If memory serves a number of Tiki Nazis lost their jobs as a result.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 12:09 PM on November 30 [4 favorites]
I understand someone posted their photos somewhere, do we know anything about whether anyone else has been identified? I know that something similar happened after the Tiki Torch Rally in Charlottesville, where there was a whole Shitter thread devoted to a couple of screenshots of the video they ran where users were trying to identify people so they could alert their employers. If memory serves a number of Tiki Nazis lost their jobs as a result.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 12:09 PM on November 30 [4 favorites]
otherchaz, sorry for the derail I should have been more careful in my wording
I literally meant the 'nazi' pun, the 3rd time around it just felt like bog-standard reddit at that point. It's in the title then repeated twice in comments. The pushback and final solution stuff just seemed to miss any mark we're trying to meet, I don't see what any of that has to do with anti-Nazi punk music or fighting Nazis in N. America, it's lazy posturing and trivializing imo. Again sorry, because the post you made and information we can share does contribute to how we organize for what is coming.
posted by ginger.beef at 4:05 PM on November 30 [4 favorites]
I literally meant the 'nazi' pun, the 3rd time around it just felt like bog-standard reddit at that point. It's in the title then repeated twice in comments. The pushback and final solution stuff just seemed to miss any mark we're trying to meet, I don't see what any of that has to do with anti-Nazi punk music or fighting Nazis in N. America, it's lazy posturing and trivializing imo. Again sorry, because the post you made and information we can share does contribute to how we organize for what is coming.
posted by ginger.beef at 4:05 PM on November 30 [4 favorites]
The thing about the dismissive mockery plan is that you have to project this subtext that you can mock them and dismiss them and cowards because if they don't keep themselves in check, you and your neighbors will absolutely ride them out of town on a rail.
For me it reminds me of my six year old when he's mad about something dumb. Obviously it's not productive parenting to openly mock a child. He can threaten whatever he wants and gnash his teeth, scream and yell, or whatever else. He's just not a threat to my safety, even if he doesn't know that. Though he can still do some dumb, destructive shit that might also be a danger to himself and/or others so I have to keep an eye out for that and be prepared to come down on it hard if necessary.
But these are grown men and absolutely should be mocked to their faces and given a time-out in whatever form that might take (punching, throwing them out of any and all private space, throwing rotten veggies at them, whatever, be creative!).
posted by VTX at 5:05 PM on November 30 [2 favorites]
For me it reminds me of my six year old when he's mad about something dumb. Obviously it's not productive parenting to openly mock a child. He can threaten whatever he wants and gnash his teeth, scream and yell, or whatever else. He's just not a threat to my safety, even if he doesn't know that. Though he can still do some dumb, destructive shit that might also be a danger to himself and/or others so I have to keep an eye out for that and be prepared to come down on it hard if necessary.
But these are grown men and absolutely should be mocked to their faces and given a time-out in whatever form that might take (punching, throwing them out of any and all private space, throwing rotten veggies at them, whatever, be creative!).
posted by VTX at 5:05 PM on November 30 [2 favorites]
I hate Ohio nazis as much I hate Illinois nazis.
posted by scblackman at 8:51 PM on November 30 [2 favorites]
posted by scblackman at 8:51 PM on November 30 [2 favorites]
I literally meant the 'nazi' pun
posted by ginger.beef at 16:05 on November 30
There's a point of view that a community that makes Nazi puns, or in this case, the same pun repeated, is a community that is strengthening its resistance to Nazis. It's not high entertainment, but if a community's fun is aligned against Nazis, letting people have their fun pays off in the long run. It's just a different point of view, but whether or not you agree, can you see it? (In those last 4 words, I'm inviting you to have fun with us)
posted by otherchaz at 10:08 PM on November 30 [1 favorite]
posted by ginger.beef at 16:05 on November 30
There's a point of view that a community that makes Nazi puns, or in this case, the same pun repeated, is a community that is strengthening its resistance to Nazis. It's not high entertainment, but if a community's fun is aligned against Nazis, letting people have their fun pays off in the long run. It's just a different point of view, but whether or not you agree, can you see it? (In those last 4 words, I'm inviting you to have fun with us)
posted by otherchaz at 10:08 PM on November 30 [1 favorite]
Well, I am not about to use that construction here again anytime soon. But outside of here? I don't know. I've seen sore winner Trump voters pop up all over Facebook on topics completely unrelated -- like paleontology for god's sake! -- to do victory laps or rant about the likes of Nancy Pelosi, Adam Schiff, AOC and Jasmine Crockett. Some FB pages have shut down their comment sections already. We're all stressed, these are tough times for us all -- Trumpeteers so far excepted -- but we all have better things to do than play hall monitor with each other until the last ding dong of eternity.
Sometimes I hate listen to Coast to Coast AM and it's the same deal there. Guests and the same five callers in there run more and more MAGA. I use to fall asleep listening KUOW FM as it cycles berween NPR, CBC and BBC World Service overnight but the news is so depressing anymore. I've since switched to our local listener supported classical station which has no news, no ads and the most eclectic playlist ever.
posted by y2karl at 10:47 PM on November 30 [5 favorites]
Sometimes I hate listen to Coast to Coast AM and it's the same deal there. Guests and the same five callers in there run more and more MAGA. I use to fall asleep listening KUOW FM as it cycles berween NPR, CBC and BBC World Service overnight but the news is so depressing anymore. I've since switched to our local listener supported classical station which has no news, no ads and the most eclectic playlist ever.
posted by y2karl at 10:47 PM on November 30 [5 favorites]
I've seen sore winner Trump voters pop up all over Facebook on topics completely unrelated
I play No Man's Sky which uses the same shared universe for all players. However it is simulating 256 galaxies with billions of stars each so you rarely run across other players. The exception is special events called expeditions where most of the community is playing in the same handful of Star systems. The unavoidable in game "billboards" in the concentration points in these locations are swamped with US political messages to the point that I play without my network connected. I miss the player interactions that normally happen during expeditions but I also preserve a respite from reality that is the whole reason for playing in the first place.
posted by Mitheral at 9:46 AM on December 1 [4 favorites]
I play No Man's Sky which uses the same shared universe for all players. However it is simulating 256 galaxies with billions of stars each so you rarely run across other players. The exception is special events called expeditions where most of the community is playing in the same handful of Star systems. The unavoidable in game "billboards" in the concentration points in these locations are swamped with US political messages to the point that I play without my network connected. I miss the player interactions that normally happen during expeditions but I also preserve a respite from reality that is the whole reason for playing in the first place.
posted by Mitheral at 9:46 AM on December 1 [4 favorites]
Thing about nazi puns is that they don't really make fun of Nazis. At last in this thread there wasn't one that did. They are making fun of the topic. Turning the conversation more lighthearted which, I don't think that's a good thing, and certainly not when they take over the thread.
posted by M. at 10:59 PM on December 1 [6 favorites]
posted by M. at 10:59 PM on December 1 [6 favorites]
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"I definitely feel your First Amendment rights to say whatever nonsense this is, but c'mon, man," the officer said. "The Buckeyes are playing. Man, come on."
posted by Ice Cream Socialist at 7:55 PM on November 28 [79 favorites]