Taking Newport Council to court over £602 million bitcoin in the dump
December 3, 2024 2:13 PM Subscribe
In 2013, James Howells had a sort-out and his laptop mistakenly ended up at the dump. Now he's taking the council to court to get permission to excavate for the laptop and its bitcoin. In The Guardian, but more details in Wales Online. Some more details about his plans and the possible community benefits. There was a long article about Howells in the New Yorker in 2021; archive link.
He has written out two proposals to the council backed by hedge fund money depending on how much of the site he would be allowed to search.
The plans include experts from landfill excavation, environmental waste management and data recovery - as well as security in the form of robot "spot" dogs who patrol the area to ensure nobody else tries to locate the device.
Well if this isn't just the perfect encapsulation of everything that is shitty about the intersection of crypto, technology, and capitalism.
posted by RonButNotStupid at 3:06 PM on December 3, 2024 [23 favorites]
The plans include experts from landfill excavation, environmental waste management and data recovery - as well as security in the form of robot "spot" dogs who patrol the area to ensure nobody else tries to locate the device.
Well if this isn't just the perfect encapsulation of everything that is shitty about the intersection of crypto, technology, and capitalism.
posted by RonButNotStupid at 3:06 PM on December 3, 2024 [23 favorites]
This guy has basically ruined his whole life over this obsession, it's a really sad story but not because he "lost" millions of pounds. His own timeline makes the very existence of this supposed hard drive very suspect. In 2013 he may have unthinkingly put a hard drive in a bin. His girlfriend at the time may have put the bag in the garbage. Several MONTHS later he reads an article about Bitcoin and becomes obsessed with the thought that he had mined 7000+ BTC.
posted by muddgirl at 3:28 PM on December 3, 2024 [11 favorites]
posted by muddgirl at 3:28 PM on December 3, 2024 [11 favorites]
The future of finance indeed.
This story appears seemingly every other week or so in my newsfeed. I feel sorry for the council staff and council tax payers having to waste more time and resources on this. I mean if I threw away a couple hundred million dollars I’d probably be pretty irrational about it as well. But recovering a hard drive under tons of trash and garbage ooze/sludge 11 years later…..yeah no. But congrats on achieving legendary level “cautionary tale” status.
posted by inflatablekiwi at 3:33 PM on December 3, 2024 [2 favorites]
This story appears seemingly every other week or so in my newsfeed. I feel sorry for the council staff and council tax payers having to waste more time and resources on this. I mean if I threw away a couple hundred million dollars I’d probably be pretty irrational about it as well. But recovering a hard drive under tons of trash and garbage ooze/sludge 11 years later…..yeah no. But congrats on achieving legendary level “cautionary tale” status.
posted by inflatablekiwi at 3:33 PM on December 3, 2024 [2 favorites]
If he's so sure the hard drive can be found and the data recovered, he may convince the council by paying up-front for the cost of recovery and all the 'community benefits' he plans to fund with his re-found fortune. I guess he's not actually that certain after all. I kind of hope he's successful in getting approval just so some hedge funds can lose a few million in an unsuccessful attempt to get a big payoff.
posted by dg at 3:47 PM on December 3, 2024 [1 favorite]
posted by dg at 3:47 PM on December 3, 2024 [1 favorite]
Give that man a shovel and no more attention.
posted by whatevernot at 3:48 PM on December 3, 2024 [8 favorites]
posted by whatevernot at 3:48 PM on December 3, 2024 [8 favorites]
so he's satoshi
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 4:14 PM on December 3, 2024 [4 favorites]
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 4:14 PM on December 3, 2024 [4 favorites]
apropos of barely nothing, maybe, but this story did remind me that officially-labeled "welsh gold" is as much of a scam in that no gold is actually mined in wales any longer
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 4:17 PM on December 3, 2024 [1 favorite]
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 4:17 PM on December 3, 2024 [1 favorite]
It's gone, Homer.
posted by krisjohn at 4:54 PM on December 3, 2024 [1 favorite]
posted by krisjohn at 4:54 PM on December 3, 2024 [1 favorite]
This story really highlights the incredible stupidity and awkwardness of cryptocurrency as a medium of exchange.
It's even less convenient than gold, which itself is pretty damn inconvenient.
posted by Artifice_Eternity at 4:56 PM on December 3, 2024 [1 favorite]
It's even less convenient than gold, which itself is pretty damn inconvenient.
posted by Artifice_Eternity at 4:56 PM on December 3, 2024 [1 favorite]
While he's probably a perfectly ok person (albeit with some real issues) but damn this story gave me some joy today as I wallow in the coming misery from the Trumpists and what they'll do to the vulnerable all across the world.
And crypto - FFS, why? Do the rich not have enough - obv. everything is not enough for them -but still.....
posted by WatTylerJr at 4:58 PM on December 3, 2024
And crypto - FFS, why? Do the rich not have enough - obv. everything is not enough for them -but still.....
posted by WatTylerJr at 4:58 PM on December 3, 2024
This guy has basically ruined his whole life over this obsession
He's a crypto bro, so... good?
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 7:01 PM on December 3, 2024 [1 favorite]
He's a crypto bro, so... good?
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 7:01 PM on December 3, 2024 [1 favorite]
No, I said thumbdrive. That's an actual thumb!
posted by pwnguin at 8:13 PM on December 3, 2024 [3 favorites]
posted by pwnguin at 8:13 PM on December 3, 2024 [3 favorites]
If it's worth 1/4 that much, you might start a recycling company and take on the town's landfill to recover and recycle plastics and electronics from it.
But nope. Just strong-nope to all things BTC.
posted by k3ninho at 1:52 AM on December 4, 2024 [3 favorites]
But nope. Just strong-nope to all things BTC.
posted by k3ninho at 1:52 AM on December 4, 2024 [3 favorites]
If it's worth 1/4 that much, you might start a recycling company and take on the town's landfill to recover and recycle plastics and electronics from it.
...and not mention the fact that there (could possibly be) is a 600ish million pound hard-drive in there...
(there's a story there, of course, on a par with any "Pirate's treasure-map" story. There's a fortune over - there - and I know where to look, if you'll give me X amount.)
posted by From Bklyn at 2:49 AM on December 4, 2024
...and not mention the fact that there (could possibly be) is a 600ish million pound hard-drive in there...
(there's a story there, of course, on a par with any "Pirate's treasure-map" story. There's a fortune over - there - and I know where to look, if you'll give me X amount.)
posted by From Bklyn at 2:49 AM on December 4, 2024
Pedantic: the Bitcoins aren’t in the dump. They’re still out there visible to anyone with a copy of the blockchain. It’s the encryption key that’s in the dump. Perhaps a few $100m spent on cryptography research scholarships trying to crack the private key would be more useful to the greater good.
posted by rh at 6:38 AM on December 4, 2024
posted by rh at 6:38 AM on December 4, 2024
When I consider the herculean project being proposed by this guy in an effort to find a hard drive which may not even be there, or contain usable data if it is, I think about a University of Illinois student who was murdered [CW] and her remains disposed of in a dumpster; by the time the murderer got around to admitting what he'd done, the landfill had been filled up to an extent that it wasn't considered likely that the remains could be located, so there she remains. But this guy thinks that his former hard drive is not only locatable and retrievable, but that somehow he's going to keep any of the likely-to-be-vastly-underpaid people who will be doing the actual grunt work from pocketing it, by [checks again] robot dogs? Everytime this story rolls around, I once again wonder about the so-called "computer expert" who didn't back up his hard drive.
(there's a story there, of course, on a par with any "Pirate's treasure-map" story. There's a fortune over - there - and I know where to look, if you'll give me X amount.)
Consider the case of Oak Island, which has been the subject of treasure-hunting expeditions and excavations for over two centuries, with the result that any treasure that might be down there is likely irretrievable due to all the failed efforts. My prediction is that, if this guy ever gets to dig in the dump, they'll pull up an incredibly decrepit laptop that seems to be the same model as this guy's discarded one, and, after painstaking efforts to retrieve the data, the digital contents are finally revealed: some remarkably risible porn involving a lookalike of the late queen. (And the actual laptop, surprisingly well-preserved, lies mere inches below where they finally stopped digging, forever.)
posted by Halloween Jack at 7:05 AM on December 4, 2024
(there's a story there, of course, on a par with any "Pirate's treasure-map" story. There's a fortune over - there - and I know where to look, if you'll give me X amount.)
Consider the case of Oak Island, which has been the subject of treasure-hunting expeditions and excavations for over two centuries, with the result that any treasure that might be down there is likely irretrievable due to all the failed efforts. My prediction is that, if this guy ever gets to dig in the dump, they'll pull up an incredibly decrepit laptop that seems to be the same model as this guy's discarded one, and, after painstaking efforts to retrieve the data, the digital contents are finally revealed: some remarkably risible porn involving a lookalike of the late queen. (And the actual laptop, surprisingly well-preserved, lies mere inches below where they finally stopped digging, forever.)
posted by Halloween Jack at 7:05 AM on December 4, 2024
1. Get investor money to go looking for buried treasure.
2. Instead of looking for buried treasure, invest the money developing technology needed to find treasure.
3. Speed run dominating treasure-finding technology industry.
4. Invest in other industries adjacent to treasure-finding.
5. Profit.
We live in a world where a company that started off as a dumb website where college kids poked at each other all day is now a industry titan. It's not about finding the harddrive, it's about obtaining enough cash in a pile until it reaches critical mass.
posted by RonButNotStupid at 9:38 AM on December 4, 2024 [2 favorites]
2. Instead of looking for buried treasure, invest the money developing technology needed to find treasure.
3. Speed run dominating treasure-finding technology industry.
4. Invest in other industries adjacent to treasure-finding.
5. Profit.
We live in a world where a company that started off as a dumb website where college kids poked at each other all day is now a industry titan. It's not about finding the harddrive, it's about obtaining enough cash in a pile until it reaches critical mass.
posted by RonButNotStupid at 9:38 AM on December 4, 2024 [2 favorites]
If he's so sure the hard drive can be found and the data recovered, he may convince the council by paying up-front for the cost of recovery and all the 'community benefits' he plans to fund with his re-found fortune.
He is planning to have someone else pay for all costs of the recovery and not thinking the council should pay. He only promises the later benefits if it is found.
The concern here is the environmental damage: "The council has told Mr Howells multiple times that excavation is not possible under our environmental permit, and that work of that nature would have a huge negative environmental impact on the surrounding area."
The Wales Online article has an interesting point "The lawsuit even offers to help "modernise" the landfill site which Mr Howells' team say has been in breach of environmental regulations since 2020 over levels of harmful substances such as arsenic, asbestos, methane."
posted by soelo at 10:45 AM on December 4, 2024 [1 favorite]
He is planning to have someone else pay for all costs of the recovery and not thinking the council should pay. He only promises the later benefits if it is found.
The concern here is the environmental damage: "The council has told Mr Howells multiple times that excavation is not possible under our environmental permit, and that work of that nature would have a huge negative environmental impact on the surrounding area."
The Wales Online article has an interesting point "The lawsuit even offers to help "modernise" the landfill site which Mr Howells' team say has been in breach of environmental regulations since 2020 over levels of harmful substances such as arsenic, asbestos, methane."
posted by soelo at 10:45 AM on December 4, 2024 [1 favorite]
Wouldn't any plans to modernize the landfill require a lenghty process of conducting surveys, engineering reports, liability assessments, and soliciting bids from firms that are qualified to do this sort of work?
Do they just naively think the council will hand them a contract to "modernize" things where they can dig as much as they want?
posted by RonButNotStupid at 5:29 AM on December 5, 2024
Do they just naively think the council will hand them a contract to "modernize" things where they can dig as much as they want?
posted by RonButNotStupid at 5:29 AM on December 5, 2024
I think that is exactly what the council is saying. They can't just let a random company dig around like this, even with their promises to clean it all up after the dig is finished. If the place really needs to be upgraded to comply with the law, that law probably also requires a proposal period and bidding process.
posted by soelo at 8:02 AM on December 5, 2024
posted by soelo at 8:02 AM on December 5, 2024
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