The evils of Big Headlight
December 3, 2024 8:13 PM Subscribe
“I’m not a very rageful person,” Gatto said, “but for some reason, these lights brought it out of me. And I kind of realized that’s why I had to do something about it. Because no one’s going to come help us.”Asleep at the Wheel in the Headlight Brightness Wars: The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration receives more consumer complaints about headlights than any other topic. A deep dive by Nate Rogers.
I recently bought a newish car with a rearview mirror that has a video screen option. I thought it was silly at first but was pleasantly surprised that it’s all but eliminated reflected glare from jacked-up cars behind me. Doesn’t help with oncoming traffic, but I’ll take a 50% reduction in temporary vision impairment.
(I navigated over here to see if there were any herbal tea tea recommendations in Ask and found myself sucked into a longread about headlights. I love this website.)
posted by Tuba Toothpaste at 8:53 PM on December 3, 2024 [31 favorites]
(I navigated over here to see if there were any herbal tea tea recommendations in Ask and found myself sucked into a longread about headlights. I love this website.)
posted by Tuba Toothpaste at 8:53 PM on December 3, 2024 [31 favorites]
“Basically,” Morgan said, “it means that assholes with bright headlights are in less single-car accidents than the people that they blind.”
Yeah, the brightest headlights from behind me and in some cases from oncoming traffic, usually on some gigantic truck or SUV, are infuriating. I'm somewhat sensitive to bright light, and I get really bad after-images from those headlights. If I get that in my side mirrors, I will sometimes have to hold my hand over the image until whoever it is isn't behind me anymore. It's incredibly distracting and definitely contributes to eyestrain while driving.
The thing is, I remember, before LED headlights became widely available, touting the potential of the technology. I generally love LED technology and thought it would be a good thing. But it's absolutely not, when pushed to its extremes like this.
I don't think people are increasingly leaving their brights on, not to the extent that is suggested in the article. I think some of the headlights out there now are brighter on their normal setting than high beams used to be, and also set at a higher level on some of these gigantic trucks out there.
I hope the people working on this can actually make some change!
posted by limeonaire at 9:03 PM on December 3, 2024 [14 favorites]
Yeah, the brightest headlights from behind me and in some cases from oncoming traffic, usually on some gigantic truck or SUV, are infuriating. I'm somewhat sensitive to bright light, and I get really bad after-images from those headlights. If I get that in my side mirrors, I will sometimes have to hold my hand over the image until whoever it is isn't behind me anymore. It's incredibly distracting and definitely contributes to eyestrain while driving.
The thing is, I remember, before LED headlights became widely available, touting the potential of the technology. I generally love LED technology and thought it would be a good thing. But it's absolutely not, when pushed to its extremes like this.
I don't think people are increasingly leaving their brights on, not to the extent that is suggested in the article. I think some of the headlights out there now are brighter on their normal setting than high beams used to be, and also set at a higher level on some of these gigantic trucks out there.
I hope the people working on this can actually make some change!
posted by limeonaire at 9:03 PM on December 3, 2024 [14 favorites]
Baker was working as a middle school math teacher in Northern California and thought of himself “as a regular person” before the mass implementation of LEDs. Then the world shifted while he was in traffic one day around 2016. He remembers looking at a Cadillac that had daytime-running LEDs—the non-primary headlights that run at all times on many modern vehicles—and “when my brain saw this light, I couldn’t look away,” he said. “Even though it was intense, I was drawn to it, and I started to feel a presence I’ve never felt, like evil.” As LEDs became more common, Baker became overwhelmed and had a mental breakdown, ending up in the hospital. He was diagnosed with mild autism spectrum disorder—which he says explains his hyper-fixation on bright lights—and couldn’t go back to work because of the LEDs in his classroom.The first time I saw a (kid playing with a) blue LED pointer outside at night it was utterly fascinating, and I could not stop following the spot. I think a big part of the problem these headlights are causing are the huge blue peaks in the spectra of white LEDs which are not directly perceived as blue color in the light but are doing weird things to our visual systems — including, in my opinion, fueling what will turn out to be a big rise in cataracts as the white LED generation ages
posted by jamjam at 9:07 PM on December 3, 2024 [5 favorites]
The article mentions mounting height, but OK SPEAKING AS A SHORT CAR USER I feel mounting height wasn't played up enough relative to alignment and color and brightness.
Downward-aligned low beams only work when nobody is mountng their lights higher than somebody else's eyes.
posted by away for regrooving at 9:20 PM on December 3, 2024 [25 favorites]
Downward-aligned low beams only work when nobody is mountng their lights higher than somebody else's eyes.
posted by away for regrooving at 9:20 PM on December 3, 2024 [25 favorites]
Haven't read the link or threads, but for about 20+ years I've DREAMED of a giant "floodlight" setup in my car the second some jackass with a giant truck with full on massive whites come running up to me, never passing, never turning down the lights, and I flip the switch....
bzzzmrrrbbbbbrrrrszcchh.
The device pops out the trunk, rotates the lights backwards and takes aim: HOW YOU LIKE ME NOW MOTHERFUCKER.
Then I think - these assholes probably have guns and will kill me so I just suffer in silence like the weak, non-mechanically oriented coward I am.
boy's gotta dream.
posted by symbioid at 9:38 PM on December 3, 2024 [28 favorites]
bzzzmrrrbbbbbrrrrszcchh.
The device pops out the trunk, rotates the lights backwards and takes aim: HOW YOU LIKE ME NOW MOTHERFUCKER.
Then I think - these assholes probably have guns and will kill me so I just suffer in silence like the weak, non-mechanically oriented coward I am.
boy's gotta dream.
posted by symbioid at 9:38 PM on December 3, 2024 [28 favorites]
I support everything being done to stop this trend and I'm not sure there's anything more I can do.
If I knew how to swap in the older headlights from pre-LED into my car, which comes factory stock (2019) with these really upsetting LED lights, I would try to do so — but it's like one or two thousand dollars to mod the headlights to an older bulb-style edition, assuming I can find a mechanic capable of doing that (how does that even work? where would they get the parts?) and they'll charge me for the parts and design and labor..
My car is as short as it gets (40cm center of gravity) so at least I'm the least annoying version of this. I pointed my left headlight extra down to help oncoming traffic but there's only so much I can do :(
posted by Callisto Prime at 9:39 PM on December 3, 2024 [4 favorites]
If I knew how to swap in the older headlights from pre-LED into my car, which comes factory stock (2019) with these really upsetting LED lights, I would try to do so — but it's like one or two thousand dollars to mod the headlights to an older bulb-style edition, assuming I can find a mechanic capable of doing that (how does that even work? where would they get the parts?) and they'll charge me for the parts and design and labor..
My car is as short as it gets (40cm center of gravity) so at least I'm the least annoying version of this. I pointed my left headlight extra down to help oncoming traffic but there's only so much I can do :(
posted by Callisto Prime at 9:39 PM on December 3, 2024 [4 favorites]
I just turn on my high beams. Fight fire with fire.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 9:43 PM on December 3, 2024
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 9:43 PM on December 3, 2024
> I don't think people are increasingly leaving their brights on
All cars I see with brights on are either (1) Teslas, (2) cars with one burned out bulb that are using their brights to make up for the burned out bulb, or (3) trucks with extra and excessive lighting for road use. #1 started with Tesla auto-brights, #2 has been going on since the last dotcom crash, #3 since the model S launched.
80-90% of people I see with fog lights on have them turned on at all times, across multiple sightings. I assume it's because it 'feels' better as a driver, but I also believe zero cars have a warning bell/chime when you're driving faster than 35mph with fog lights lit (which is extremely unsafe, since fog lights don't reach braking distance beyond that speed).
posted by Callisto Prime at 9:43 PM on December 3, 2024 [4 favorites]
All cars I see with brights on are either (1) Teslas, (2) cars with one burned out bulb that are using their brights to make up for the burned out bulb, or (3) trucks with extra and excessive lighting for road use. #1 started with Tesla auto-brights, #2 has been going on since the last dotcom crash, #3 since the model S launched.
80-90% of people I see with fog lights on have them turned on at all times, across multiple sightings. I assume it's because it 'feels' better as a driver, but I also believe zero cars have a warning bell/chime when you're driving faster than 35mph with fog lights lit (which is extremely unsafe, since fog lights don't reach braking distance beyond that speed).
posted by Callisto Prime at 9:43 PM on December 3, 2024 [4 favorites]
This is a problem with bicycles, too, which are even more of a wild west when it comes to lighting. It's pretty much impossible to affix them in a way that is permanently aligned correctly, so it's really up to individuals to be conscientious. I try!
posted by alexei at 9:47 PM on December 3, 2024 [10 favorites]
posted by alexei at 9:47 PM on December 3, 2024 [10 favorites]
Haven't read the link or threads, but for about 20+ years I've DREAMED of a giant "floodlight" setup in my car the second some jackass with a giant truck with full on massive whites come running up to me, never passing, never turning down the lights, and I flip the switch....
bzzzmrrrbbbbbrrrrszcchh.
The device pops out the trunk, rotates the lights backwards and takes aim: HOW YOU LIKE ME NOW MOTHERFUCKER.
You should read the article. One of the guys sells it. The set up is a little simpler than your version.
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 9:47 PM on December 3, 2024 [8 favorites]
bzzzmrrrbbbbbrrrrszcchh.
The device pops out the trunk, rotates the lights backwards and takes aim: HOW YOU LIKE ME NOW MOTHERFUCKER.
You should read the article. One of the guys sells it. The set up is a little simpler than your version.
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 9:47 PM on December 3, 2024 [8 favorites]
> I used to do a little light flash to try and get their attention but gave up
I've had some success turning my lights off and then back on to signify something weird, and it tends to work half the time or so.
posted by Callisto Prime at 9:48 PM on December 3, 2024 [5 favorites]
I've had some success turning my lights off and then back on to signify something weird, and it tends to work half the time or so.
posted by Callisto Prime at 9:48 PM on December 3, 2024 [5 favorites]
A friend's daughter started working swing last winter at the QFC a few blocks away and got an apartment quite a few more blocks farther. I promised her mom I would walk her home when she got off. And did for sometime.
What a terror those were. Even on skinny back streets every one in a car drove with those LED lights on high beam. The jacked SUVs were the worst. I got blinded first by the high beams and secondly got blinded even more by the glowing neon green vision filling after-image which followed. I could see neither my feet nor the sidewalk for that -- I really could have used a cane there and then. Those lights are lethal.
posted by y2karl at 9:52 PM on December 3, 2024 [6 favorites]
What a terror those were. Even on skinny back streets every one in a car drove with those LED lights on high beam. The jacked SUVs were the worst. I got blinded first by the high beams and secondly got blinded even more by the glowing neon green vision filling after-image which followed. I could see neither my feet nor the sidewalk for that -- I really could have used a cane there and then. Those lights are lethal.
posted by y2karl at 9:52 PM on December 3, 2024 [6 favorites]
I just daydream of mirrors. “Right back atcha”, my thwarted action persona says.
posted by clew at 10:08 PM on December 3, 2024 [9 favorites]
posted by clew at 10:08 PM on December 3, 2024 [9 favorites]
There's no doubt car headlights have become brighter over the last decade or so, but I don't believe the brightness itself is the problem. I am absolutely convinced that a lot of people drive around with their lights on high beam all the time (and often fog lights on as well). When I'm driving towards a vehicle with blinding headlights, I'll give the customary quick flash of high beams to remind the other driver they've 'forgotten' to dip their lights and, if they don't dip their lights, I'll put mine on high and leave them there until they either dip their lights or I go past them. At least 50% of the time, the other driver eventually dips their lights so at least that proportion are driving into oncoming traffic with high beams on. I'm sure most of the rest don't understand why I'm flashing my lights or simply don't care. High beams should never be used around other vehicles or especially around pedestrians and cyclists (despite the apparent prevailing view, both of these groups are also humans worth giving some consideration to).
I don't come across the problem with vehicles behind me because my car has both tinted windows and a rear-view mirror that darkens when it detects bright lights, but bright lights from behind can be almost more annoying because they can persist for long periods and have a 'flashing' effect as the two cars move in relation to each other.
The biggest problem, though, is poor headlight alignment. It doesn't matter how bright a light is if it's shining down on the road surface or off to the edge of the road. Given how bright modern headlamps are, it doesn't take much misalignment to shine straight into oncoming drivers, especially on larger vehicles with high-mounted headlights. Poor headlight alignment has been a problem forever but, as recently as a decade ago, lights weren't bright enough to feel blinding even if they were shining straight at you. The change from warm white to blue-white colour temperatures has exacerbated this, because they seem brighter even though they may measure the same.
But properly-aligned headlights should never blind oncoming vehicles no matter the height of their vehicle (within bounds of normality). That alignment has two parts - the design alignment that is possible to a very accurate level with LEDs to cast a beam that puts bright light on the road directly ahead and even more so on the road verge but keeps the beam down very low on the other side of the road. This is a solved problem and I hope car makers aren't crippling this by demanding their headlights are brighter than the opposition everywhere or something. The other is harder, because it depends on car owners keeping their vehicles maintained properly. However, short of auto-aligning headlights, the most accurately shaped and perfectly aligned headlights are going to point higher when you plonk three (or more) adults in the back seat/s or a load of bricks in the back of your truck.
I don't agree that we need to make headlights less bright in absolute terms, although low-beams likely don't need to be as bright as they are. I'm actually planning to fit some extra lights to my car for highway driving, because the high beams are so piss-poor. They don't come close to reaching out far enough to be safe at highway speeds, even though they're quite bright.
posted by dg at 10:25 PM on December 3, 2024 [5 favorites]
I don't come across the problem with vehicles behind me because my car has both tinted windows and a rear-view mirror that darkens when it detects bright lights, but bright lights from behind can be almost more annoying because they can persist for long periods and have a 'flashing' effect as the two cars move in relation to each other.
The biggest problem, though, is poor headlight alignment. It doesn't matter how bright a light is if it's shining down on the road surface or off to the edge of the road. Given how bright modern headlamps are, it doesn't take much misalignment to shine straight into oncoming drivers, especially on larger vehicles with high-mounted headlights. Poor headlight alignment has been a problem forever but, as recently as a decade ago, lights weren't bright enough to feel blinding even if they were shining straight at you. The change from warm white to blue-white colour temperatures has exacerbated this, because they seem brighter even though they may measure the same.
But properly-aligned headlights should never blind oncoming vehicles no matter the height of their vehicle (within bounds of normality). That alignment has two parts - the design alignment that is possible to a very accurate level with LEDs to cast a beam that puts bright light on the road directly ahead and even more so on the road verge but keeps the beam down very low on the other side of the road. This is a solved problem and I hope car makers aren't crippling this by demanding their headlights are brighter than the opposition everywhere or something. The other is harder, because it depends on car owners keeping their vehicles maintained properly. However, short of auto-aligning headlights, the most accurately shaped and perfectly aligned headlights are going to point higher when you plonk three (or more) adults in the back seat/s or a load of bricks in the back of your truck.
I don't agree that we need to make headlights less bright in absolute terms, although low-beams likely don't need to be as bright as they are. I'm actually planning to fit some extra lights to my car for highway driving, because the high beams are so piss-poor. They don't come close to reaching out far enough to be safe at highway speeds, even though they're quite bright.
posted by dg at 10:25 PM on December 3, 2024 [5 favorites]
> The biggest problem, though, is poor headlight alignment
When my factory stock LED headlights are aimed appropriately, they provide something like half a mile of easy visibility on a level road, by design. Aiming them more downward than is legal for my vehicle height into the roadway has reduced the number of people flashing their lights at me from a few a day to one a year. Should I have them realigned to the appropriate lawful standard and go back to infuriating drivers nonstop every day? It was certainly easier to see at night except for all the flashing headlights pointed at me..
I would like to remind everyone that we don’t all get a choice between LED and non-LED, and to take care not to blame by default the car purchasers for the choices of car manufacturers and insurers. With y’all re: optional truck lighting though!
posted by Callisto Prime at 10:34 PM on December 3, 2024
When my factory stock LED headlights are aimed appropriately, they provide something like half a mile of easy visibility on a level road, by design. Aiming them more downward than is legal for my vehicle height into the roadway has reduced the number of people flashing their lights at me from a few a day to one a year. Should I have them realigned to the appropriate lawful standard and go back to infuriating drivers nonstop every day? It was certainly easier to see at night except for all the flashing headlights pointed at me..
I would like to remind everyone that we don’t all get a choice between LED and non-LED, and to take care not to blame by default the car purchasers for the choices of car manufacturers and insurers. With y’all re: optional truck lighting though!
posted by Callisto Prime at 10:34 PM on December 3, 2024
to cast a beam that puts bright light on the road directly ahead and even more so on the road verge but keeps the beam down very low on the other side of the road
I am on that road directly ahead. I and my mirrors.
posted by away for regrooving at 10:53 PM on December 3, 2024 [4 favorites]
I am on that road directly ahead. I and my mirrors.
posted by away for regrooving at 10:53 PM on December 3, 2024 [4 favorites]
My 2023 Kia Niro has high beams that automatically go to low beam when the system sees headlights coming. There's no way to turn that feature off, so to blind someone you would need to manually hold the high beams on on purpose. It's a feature l really appreciate.
posted by rikschell at 11:42 PM on December 3, 2024 [11 favorites]
posted by rikschell at 11:42 PM on December 3, 2024 [11 favorites]
I am an old and so hate the infuriating led lights, but also hate hate hate that everyone turns on all of their lights, all of the time. One of the lamest things to have happened to cars are standardized "fog" lights, they don't help much in actual fog anyway and everyone, everyone drives with them on at all times, from "granola ladies" in subarus to big, big men in their giant big man trucks. Fuck each and every one of them.
(My 25-year-old car has fog lights but they have never been turned on, except to test them in the garage when I bought it. I'm tempted to replace them with some sort of military laser array, aimed squarely at the oncoming driver of bright blue LED-equipped cars, to be turned on when I've had enough (they'd be on a lot of the time, true enough), but I'll just leave that idea as fantasy for now.)
posted by maxwelton at 12:15 AM on December 4, 2024
(My 25-year-old car has fog lights but they have never been turned on, except to test them in the garage when I bought it. I'm tempted to replace them with some sort of military laser array, aimed squarely at the oncoming driver of bright blue LED-equipped cars, to be turned on when I've had enough (they'd be on a lot of the time, true enough), but I'll just leave that idea as fantasy for now.)
posted by maxwelton at 12:15 AM on December 4, 2024
One of the lamest things to have happened to cars are standardized "fog" lights, they don't help much in actual fog anyway...
I find them to be extremely helpful on rainy and/or foggy nights. They allow me to actually see the road markings in those conditions.
posted by NoMich at 2:57 AM on December 4, 2024 [4 favorites]
I find them to be extremely helpful on rainy and/or foggy nights. They allow me to actually see the road markings in those conditions.
posted by NoMich at 2:57 AM on December 4, 2024 [4 favorites]
Oh god, another thing I blessedly do not have to deal with since I don’t live in a car-dependent country anymore. (Although fat bike lights really need to tone it down!)
posted by antinomia at 2:58 AM on December 4, 2024
posted by antinomia at 2:58 AM on December 4, 2024
We just got new headlights on our 12-year-old Prius (between the plastic aging and the faulty seal that burned out the right bulb three or four times a year, it was necessary) and not only are they now deadly bright, they are aimed way higher than they used to be. I suspected it, and then a recent foggy evening confirmed it - the beams are aimed up, not down or even straight ahead. Next time we bring it in, I'm going to see if I can get them to align them in a way that is less likely to kill someone.
posted by restless_nomad at 3:24 AM on December 4, 2024 [4 favorites]
posted by restless_nomad at 3:24 AM on December 4, 2024 [4 favorites]
The article also notes the massive drop in traffic enforcement
This seems to be the case pretty much everywhere. It seems like this began around the time of the pandemic, but that could just be coincidence. Regardless, if governments really want to make a difference in people's lives, making the roads safer through active enforcement of the laws would be the best way to do it.
posted by tommasz at 3:27 AM on December 4, 2024 [11 favorites]
This seems to be the case pretty much everywhere. It seems like this began around the time of the pandemic, but that could just be coincidence. Regardless, if governments really want to make a difference in people's lives, making the roads safer through active enforcement of the laws would be the best way to do it.
posted by tommasz at 3:27 AM on December 4, 2024 [11 favorites]
I don't agree that we need to make headlights less bright in absolute terms, although low-beams likely don't need to be as bright as they are.
Alignment is definitely an issue but headlights are simply too bright, full stop. In the article it was mentioned what Jason Cammisa said about manufacturers cheating when they test for brightness. Additionally, the magical cut off everyone talks about is fine when two vehicles approach on level ground but sometimes a car is coming up over something like railroad tracks or another kind of rise which raises the cut off directly into my eyes. If headlight brightness and color was like it was in the 90s this wouldn't be an issue.
posted by drstrangelove at 3:28 AM on December 4, 2024 [8 favorites]
Alignment is definitely an issue but headlights are simply too bright, full stop. In the article it was mentioned what Jason Cammisa said about manufacturers cheating when they test for brightness. Additionally, the magical cut off everyone talks about is fine when two vehicles approach on level ground but sometimes a car is coming up over something like railroad tracks or another kind of rise which raises the cut off directly into my eyes. If headlight brightness and color was like it was in the 90s this wouldn't be an issue.
posted by drstrangelove at 3:28 AM on December 4, 2024 [8 favorites]
This is a problem with bicycles, too, which are even more of a wild west when it comes to lighting. It's pretty much impossible to affix them in a way that is permanently aligned correctly, so it's really up to individuals to be conscientious. I try!
I am pre-dawn runner for most of the year on the Chicago lakefront trails and I wear a headlamp. I aim it very much down because I am using it mostly for footing and puddle/ice avoidance but also because cyclists have taught me just how blinding the lights can be. There are cyclists with huge double barrelled LED lights with external battery packs with them setup level and they are so blinding I've had to stop and shield my eyes as the rode by. If I don't it is physically painful I can't see damn thing for about 30 seconds after. I've seen other people responding the same way. There is no way these guys, and they are mostly guys, don't notice the effect they are having thanks to all the victims effectively having the momentary spotlight. Unfortunately, they're pretty much all work commuters and unidirectional (southbound) so they don't inflict it on each other. It's mostly just an annoyance and not likely to actually really harm anyone on a path but it is yet another glaring inconsiderate FU in a society that already has too much of that ambient individualism extremist psychic pollution floating around.
(LED headlamps are fun when you run in the pitch dark and encounter a group of racoons on the lakefront rocks, at spot informally called Racoon City, and you suddenly have twenty pairs of trash panda eyes reflecting laser light right back at you)
posted by srboisvert at 3:29 AM on December 4, 2024 [10 favorites]
I am pre-dawn runner for most of the year on the Chicago lakefront trails and I wear a headlamp. I aim it very much down because I am using it mostly for footing and puddle/ice avoidance but also because cyclists have taught me just how blinding the lights can be. There are cyclists with huge double barrelled LED lights with external battery packs with them setup level and they are so blinding I've had to stop and shield my eyes as the rode by. If I don't it is physically painful I can't see damn thing for about 30 seconds after. I've seen other people responding the same way. There is no way these guys, and they are mostly guys, don't notice the effect they are having thanks to all the victims effectively having the momentary spotlight. Unfortunately, they're pretty much all work commuters and unidirectional (southbound) so they don't inflict it on each other. It's mostly just an annoyance and not likely to actually really harm anyone on a path but it is yet another glaring inconsiderate FU in a society that already has too much of that ambient individualism extremist psychic pollution floating around.
(LED headlamps are fun when you run in the pitch dark and encounter a group of racoons on the lakefront rocks, at spot informally called Racoon City, and you suddenly have twenty pairs of trash panda eyes reflecting laser light right back at you)
posted by srboisvert at 3:29 AM on December 4, 2024 [10 favorites]
This seems to be the case pretty much everywhere. It seems like this began around the time of the pandemic, but that could just be coincidence. Regardless, if governments really want to make a difference in people's lives, making the roads safer through active enforcement of the laws would be the best way to do it.
When I was growing up (the 80s) the cops in town were famous for pulling people over for driving with their foglamps on. They also would issue citations to people I knew with the old KC lamps on their rollbars if they didn't have the plastic covers on them. Now people drive down the road with their LED lightbars on and the cops don't do a thing about it.
posted by drstrangelove at 3:30 AM on December 4, 2024 [4 favorites]
When I was growing up (the 80s) the cops in town were famous for pulling people over for driving with their foglamps on. They also would issue citations to people I knew with the old KC lamps on their rollbars if they didn't have the plastic covers on them. Now people drive down the road with their LED lightbars on and the cops don't do a thing about it.
posted by drstrangelove at 3:30 AM on December 4, 2024 [4 favorites]
As for the bicycles with ultra bright LEDs, I would just say something to these people as they pass about their lights blinding me.
posted by drstrangelove at 3:32 AM on December 4, 2024 [1 favorite]
posted by drstrangelove at 3:32 AM on December 4, 2024 [1 favorite]
My 2023 Kia Niro has high beams that automatically go to low beam when the system sees headlights coming. There's no way to turn that feature off, so to blind someone you would need to manually hold the high beams on on purpose. It's a feature l really appreciate.
One of my fantasies is making this a required feature — mandatory on all new cars, and possibly requiring a retrofit on older cars (a mounted light sensor and a relay connecting to the old high beam / low beam switch). That retrofit might be encouraged by higher insurance rates on cars without it. If you rolled out the insurance requirement first, people would be grateful it was a default feature on the new cars.
posted by rochrobbb at 3:42 AM on December 4, 2024 [1 favorite]
One of my fantasies is making this a required feature — mandatory on all new cars, and possibly requiring a retrofit on older cars (a mounted light sensor and a relay connecting to the old high beam / low beam switch). That retrofit might be encouraged by higher insurance rates on cars without it. If you rolled out the insurance requirement first, people would be grateful it was a default feature on the new cars.
posted by rochrobbb at 3:42 AM on December 4, 2024 [1 favorite]
The automatic dimmers aren't foolproof, either. I have had cars approach which will dim their lights, then I will dim mine only for their high-beams to come back on. Then I will turn on my high-beams for their lights to dim. The process continues until we're close enough that their headlights just stay in the low beam setting. And they don't work very well at all when they approach you from behind. My guess is that they're looking for the new, ultra-bright LED taillights and don't "see" mine until it's already too late. So forcing people to retrofit their cars with yet another techno-fix is not the solution.
posted by drstrangelove at 3:56 AM on December 4, 2024 [6 favorites]
posted by drstrangelove at 3:56 AM on December 4, 2024 [6 favorites]
I'm another small car driver who hates all of your big SUVs and trucks with their stupid high overly bright lights. I am often driving along with a hand blocking either my rearview or side mirror, sometimes having to alternate, so I can function.
The safety wars to have the brightest lights so you can see the best regardless of how that hurts other people are exactly the same as having the biggest, heaviest SUV so that you and your family are safe regardless of how much more that hurts or kills the other cars, bikers, and pedestrians you hit with your enormous SUV. We are a fundamentally selfish people.
posted by hydropsyche at 4:03 AM on December 4, 2024 [24 favorites]
The safety wars to have the brightest lights so you can see the best regardless of how that hurts other people are exactly the same as having the biggest, heaviest SUV so that you and your family are safe regardless of how much more that hurts or kills the other cars, bikers, and pedestrians you hit with your enormous SUV. We are a fundamentally selfish people.
posted by hydropsyche at 4:03 AM on December 4, 2024 [24 favorites]
We are a fundamentally selfish people.
Agreed. People who buy these things will say it wasn't their choice but when a friend needed to buy a new pickup for a business recently, he said the salesman went on and on about how bright the headlights were in that model. So it's clearly a selling point.
posted by drstrangelove at 4:07 AM on December 4, 2024 [4 favorites]
Agreed. People who buy these things will say it wasn't their choice but when a friend needed to buy a new pickup for a business recently, he said the salesman went on and on about how bright the headlights were in that model. So it's clearly a selling point.
posted by drstrangelove at 4:07 AM on December 4, 2024 [4 favorites]
My guess is that they're looking for the new, ultra-bright LED taillights and don't "see" mine until it's already too late. So forcing people to retrofit their cars with yet another techno-fix is not the solution.
Because it's not regulated by law, it's not really regulated how they work. This is a legal issue (not defining a universal standard), rather than a technological one. The manufacturer default ones I've been using for the past 6 years are very sensitive, they only activate high-beam in total darkness (meaning no street lamps at all). They've never failed to dip the beam for another car, even for cars travelling in the same direction.
The only time I feel I would do a better job is when I can see the faint glow of a car coming from around a corner and I pre-emptively switch off your beams, rather than waiting for the car's headlamps to appear first.
In general vehicle regulations are pretty strict, something like a turn signal gets regulated to an inch of its life, with the acceptable blink interval, minimum and maximum brightness, even minimum and maximum voltage (to ensure compatibility with aftermarket products), even the exact shade of yellow / orange / red, all specified, or the car is deemed not legal for sale. If auto-dimming high beams were part of basic vehicle standard spec it would be exactly defined as to what the minimum brightness threshold detection is, how good sensors are, what is the failsafe if dirt obscures the sensor, and if it fails to meet those standards they become not legal for sale.
Bright headlamps are definitely a safety feature. (it's part of the IIHS ratings). I live in an area with no streetlamps on long stretches of inky black road with plenty of wildlife. It's a huge difference being able to see twice as far at night with modern projector or LED headlights compared to the dinky reflector setups from decades ago.
posted by xdvesper at 4:15 AM on December 4, 2024 [3 favorites]
Because it's not regulated by law, it's not really regulated how they work. This is a legal issue (not defining a universal standard), rather than a technological one. The manufacturer default ones I've been using for the past 6 years are very sensitive, they only activate high-beam in total darkness (meaning no street lamps at all). They've never failed to dip the beam for another car, even for cars travelling in the same direction.
The only time I feel I would do a better job is when I can see the faint glow of a car coming from around a corner and I pre-emptively switch off your beams, rather than waiting for the car's headlamps to appear first.
In general vehicle regulations are pretty strict, something like a turn signal gets regulated to an inch of its life, with the acceptable blink interval, minimum and maximum brightness, even minimum and maximum voltage (to ensure compatibility with aftermarket products), even the exact shade of yellow / orange / red, all specified, or the car is deemed not legal for sale. If auto-dimming high beams were part of basic vehicle standard spec it would be exactly defined as to what the minimum brightness threshold detection is, how good sensors are, what is the failsafe if dirt obscures the sensor, and if it fails to meet those standards they become not legal for sale.
Bright headlamps are definitely a safety feature. (it's part of the IIHS ratings). I live in an area with no streetlamps on long stretches of inky black road with plenty of wildlife. It's a huge difference being able to see twice as far at night with modern projector or LED headlights compared to the dinky reflector setups from decades ago.
posted by xdvesper at 4:15 AM on December 4, 2024 [3 favorites]
I used to do a little light flash to try and get their attention but gave up - not one person ever turned their lights on after I tried to give them a heads up.
Well they don’t want to get murdered for your gang initiation, obviously.
posted by Horace Rumpole at 4:18 AM on December 4, 2024 [4 favorites]
Well they don’t want to get murdered for your gang initiation, obviously.
posted by Horace Rumpole at 4:18 AM on December 4, 2024 [4 favorites]
Whenever we're driving and it gets dark, I have to take over for my wife, because the bright blue headlights completely blind her, whereas they only bug the living crap out of me. She seriously cannot see anything else if those headlights are remotely close to her field of vision, and she's not faking it, either, because she usually wants to drive because she thinks I drive too fast.
posted by outgrown_hobnail at 4:27 AM on December 4, 2024 [5 favorites]
posted by outgrown_hobnail at 4:27 AM on December 4, 2024 [5 favorites]
I live in an area with no streetlamps on long stretches of inky black road with plenty of wildlife.
I live in extremely rural area with a lot of wildlife. Deer tend to jump out from shelter belts, so brighter, retina-searing headlights would not improve things and I certainly have never felt that if my low-beams were twice as bright that I'd be "safer."
As for strict regulations, as mentioned, manufacturers already cheat on the output of their lights. They use a darker part of the pattern, put there intentionally, to test their lumen output.
posted by drstrangelove at 4:31 AM on December 4, 2024 [5 favorites]
I live in extremely rural area with a lot of wildlife. Deer tend to jump out from shelter belts, so brighter, retina-searing headlights would not improve things and I certainly have never felt that if my low-beams were twice as bright that I'd be "safer."
As for strict regulations, as mentioned, manufacturers already cheat on the output of their lights. They use a darker part of the pattern, put there intentionally, to test their lumen output.
posted by drstrangelove at 4:31 AM on December 4, 2024 [5 favorites]
outgrown_hobnail--- my wife can't drive at night anymore for that reason. It wasn't too long after the advent of these stupid LED lights that she inadvertently drove over rocks that were in the roadway because she was completely dazzled by these "safer" lights. Thankfully the damage to her car wasn't excessive, but the point was that this other person might be able to see further down the road but it came at the cost of my wife not being able to see--- at all.
posted by drstrangelove at 4:34 AM on December 4, 2024 [9 favorites]
posted by drstrangelove at 4:34 AM on December 4, 2024 [9 favorites]
I dunno. I think more people are eager to express their outrage over anything these days. I honestly don't find much to be all that concerned about. Lights are generally brighter. They're also better than they used to be. I drive the 405 in the big bad car city almost every day in darkness one way or both, and... ? Maybe the biggest problem I've noticed is the automatic daytime driving lights so bright they make people forget to actually turn on the lights? No, I don't have to worry about wildlife, and rarely deal with oncoming high beams. Excessive light from the rear is a mirror flip away, and even then, I rarely have to do that.
posted by 2N2222 at 4:59 AM on December 4, 2024
posted by 2N2222 at 4:59 AM on December 4, 2024
Congratulations! You are in the lucky group of people who isn't bothered by these lights. Other people are. Different people experience things differently. This was actually addressed in the fpp
There appear to be two types of drivers in North America these days: those who think about headlights only when one of theirs goes out, and those who fixate on them every time they drive at night. If you’re in the first camp, consider yourself lucky. Those in the second camp—aggravated by the excess glare produced in this new era of light-emitting diode headlights—are riled up enough that the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration receives more consumer complaints about headlights than any other topic, several insiders told me.posted by hydropsyche at 5:16 AM on December 4, 2024 [13 favorites]
It's a huge difference being able to see twice as far at night with modern projector or LED headlights compared to the dinky reflector setups from decades ago.
If it's that huge of a difference, you should be driving slower. Brighter headlights should not be a enabling factor to drive at excessive speeds on dark roads, especially if the brightness causes problems for other drivers.
On the water it's a general rule that you should only go as fast as you can stop in half the distance of your visibility. If there's thick fog and you can only see 100 feet ahead, you only go as fast as you can come to a complete stop in 50 feet. I don't see why you can't apply the same logic on the road. There are roads where I think nothing of driving at 50mph during the day, but late at night where there are no streetlights, I'll slow down to 35mph.
posted by RonButNotStupid at 5:23 AM on December 4, 2024 [9 favorites]
If it's that huge of a difference, you should be driving slower. Brighter headlights should not be a enabling factor to drive at excessive speeds on dark roads, especially if the brightness causes problems for other drivers.
On the water it's a general rule that you should only go as fast as you can stop in half the distance of your visibility. If there's thick fog and you can only see 100 feet ahead, you only go as fast as you can come to a complete stop in 50 feet. I don't see why you can't apply the same logic on the road. There are roads where I think nothing of driving at 50mph during the day, but late at night where there are no streetlights, I'll slow down to 35mph.
posted by RonButNotStupid at 5:23 AM on December 4, 2024 [9 favorites]
Lately I've been ordering all my headlight bulbs online because it's much cheaper, but the other day I had to get one quickly and the local Autozone's bulb rack was almost entirely aftermarket LED replacements. All of them had in small red letters on the package "For Offroad Use Only".
I didn't realize so many people are taking their cars offroad these days.
posted by RonButNotStupid at 5:29 AM on December 4, 2024 [10 favorites]
I didn't realize so many people are taking their cars offroad these days.
posted by RonButNotStupid at 5:29 AM on December 4, 2024 [10 favorites]
As for the bicycles with ultra bright LEDs, I would just say something to these people as they pass about their lights blinding me.
I don't have a car - I rent or borrow one a few times a year. I can't drive at night anymore because I don't drive often enough to be used to all the ultra-bright lights and find them too disorienting.
When I'm not driving, I bike, and the bright lights really make things hard. It's frustrating, because Minneapolis actually has, for the US, a very good system of sequestered bike paths and bike lanes, so you'll be biking down this raised path, totally separate from traffic, and here come the giant lights right in your eyes. It's actively dangerous - I can't see anything for about twenty five feet until the bike passes me, so I can't see ice, sticks or rocks on the path, I can't see turns in the path and I could not see anything/anyone standing to the side of the path until they stepped into it. Especially when multiple commuters are coming along, it's actively dangerous as well as unpleasant.
A difficulty is that if you are on the inside of a bike path, other cyclists are on the outside and cars are beyond that, the brightness of the cyclists' lights can fool the eye into making you think they're cars if they are biking against a background of car headlights, which can either make you mis-estimate how distant they are or make you flinch away because you feel like you're steering into traffic.
There's one particular stretch where the path winds a bit and runs next to a busy street. The path is off the street and has a curb, and is typically separated from the street on that side by four or more feet of grass. However, there's one stretch where it winds a good bit and the separation is narrowed, and I can tell you from experience that when you are blinded by the awful headlights at the wrong moment you can literally bike right off the path because you miss one of the small winds in the pathway.
Bikes should not have lights that are exactly like car headlights, because they do not signal "this is a bike". I also question whether we need super brights at all.
It's very frustrating, because for years I had several good, bright-enough headlights - brighter than the itty things I grew up with, but with a warm and reasonable light - and now they have given out, and all I can easily find to replace them is these godawful LED headlamps.
posted by Frowner at 5:30 AM on December 4, 2024 [8 favorites]
I don't have a car - I rent or borrow one a few times a year. I can't drive at night anymore because I don't drive often enough to be used to all the ultra-bright lights and find them too disorienting.
When I'm not driving, I bike, and the bright lights really make things hard. It's frustrating, because Minneapolis actually has, for the US, a very good system of sequestered bike paths and bike lanes, so you'll be biking down this raised path, totally separate from traffic, and here come the giant lights right in your eyes. It's actively dangerous - I can't see anything for about twenty five feet until the bike passes me, so I can't see ice, sticks or rocks on the path, I can't see turns in the path and I could not see anything/anyone standing to the side of the path until they stepped into it. Especially when multiple commuters are coming along, it's actively dangerous as well as unpleasant.
A difficulty is that if you are on the inside of a bike path, other cyclists are on the outside and cars are beyond that, the brightness of the cyclists' lights can fool the eye into making you think they're cars if they are biking against a background of car headlights, which can either make you mis-estimate how distant they are or make you flinch away because you feel like you're steering into traffic.
There's one particular stretch where the path winds a bit and runs next to a busy street. The path is off the street and has a curb, and is typically separated from the street on that side by four or more feet of grass. However, there's one stretch where it winds a good bit and the separation is narrowed, and I can tell you from experience that when you are blinded by the awful headlights at the wrong moment you can literally bike right off the path because you miss one of the small winds in the pathway.
Bikes should not have lights that are exactly like car headlights, because they do not signal "this is a bike". I also question whether we need super brights at all.
It's very frustrating, because for years I had several good, bright-enough headlights - brighter than the itty things I grew up with, but with a warm and reasonable light - and now they have given out, and all I can easily find to replace them is these godawful LED headlamps.
posted by Frowner at 5:30 AM on December 4, 2024 [8 favorites]
Bike lights built for Dynamo hubs come in two flavours: those built for the German market, and the others.
There are regulations that exist for bike lights, and after spending a few years with a properly shaped beam lighting my way, I will never go back.
I used to use a bright flashlight attached to my bars for the better visibility, sure (it was on a mount that naturally sagged down and I manually dipped it when appropriate), but also so that when the driver that killed me claimed they couldn't see me it would be a more obvious lie.
Now I have Busch and Muller lights that I never think about except to appreciate them.
posted by Acari at 5:41 AM on December 4, 2024 [2 favorites]
There are regulations that exist for bike lights, and after spending a few years with a properly shaped beam lighting my way, I will never go back.
I used to use a bright flashlight attached to my bars for the better visibility, sure (it was on a mount that naturally sagged down and I manually dipped it when appropriate), but also so that when the driver that killed me claimed they couldn't see me it would be a more obvious lie.
Now I have Busch and Muller lights that I never think about except to appreciate them.
posted by Acari at 5:41 AM on December 4, 2024 [2 favorites]
Jenni Gwiazdowksi wrote a great piece for the London Bike Kitchen Substack about the current bike road lighting war (Jenni runs the bike kitchen).
I really feel like this is what happens when the US government stopped talking about important issues (car headlamp safety standards) and started talking about culture war bullshit. The reason that German bike lights are good is because they conform to the StVO standards, because they had a very boring meeting where they read some very boring reports they commissioned and said, ok, this is what bike lights do from now on.
posted by The River Ivel at 6:43 AM on December 4, 2024 [8 favorites]
I really feel like this is what happens when the US government stopped talking about important issues (car headlamp safety standards) and started talking about culture war bullshit. The reason that German bike lights are good is because they conform to the StVO standards, because they had a very boring meeting where they read some very boring reports they commissioned and said, ok, this is what bike lights do from now on.
posted by The River Ivel at 6:43 AM on December 4, 2024 [8 favorites]
the massive drop in traffic enforcement and it's really obvious where I live. Driving standards are just out the window
thecjm's
Let me guess.. Toronto ?
Checks thecjm's profile., and there it is..Toronto my home
===
I had fog lights in an old Mazda . Never used them. They looked nice though.
I seem to remember in Paris years ago that the headlights were yellow tinged.
Looked weird but less glare.
.
posted by yyz at 6:55 AM on December 4, 2024
thecjm's
Let me guess.. Toronto ?
Checks thecjm's profile., and there it is..Toronto my home
===
I had fog lights in an old Mazda . Never used them. They looked nice though.
I seem to remember in Paris years ago that the headlights were yellow tinged.
Looked weird but less glare.
.
posted by yyz at 6:55 AM on December 4, 2024
I have absolutely noticed people leaving their high beams on. Last week I flashed my lights at an oncoming car that had its brights on, and the car swerved across the median and tried to run me off the road.
posted by 1adam12 at 6:58 AM on December 4, 2024
posted by 1adam12 at 6:58 AM on December 4, 2024
I've DREAMED of a giant "floodlight" setup in my car
Industrial retro-reflective tape is another option, so the light gets reflected back to the source. There is some scatter but it is pretty direct back to any angle.
posted by Lanark at 7:23 AM on December 4, 2024 [4 favorites]
Industrial retro-reflective tape is another option, so the light gets reflected back to the source. There is some scatter but it is pretty direct back to any angle.
posted by Lanark at 7:23 AM on December 4, 2024 [4 favorites]
@symbioid - Instead of lights, I want a hyper-directional acoustic cannon or something similar, so I could just press button and go "CAR MODEL X, LICENSE PLATE Z - PLEASE DO/DO NOT DO THING YOU ARE CURRENTLY DOING IN YOUR VEHICLE ANYMORE." etc
posted by bitterkitten at 7:30 AM on December 4, 2024 [1 favorite]
posted by bitterkitten at 7:30 AM on December 4, 2024 [1 favorite]
> I have to take over for my wife, because the bright blue headlights completely blind her
> my wife can't drive at night anymore for that reason
> I honestly don't find much to be all that concerned about
ಠ_ಠ
posted by McBearclaw at 8:12 AM on December 4, 2024 [9 favorites]
> my wife can't drive at night anymore for that reason
> I honestly don't find much to be all that concerned about
ಠ_ಠ
posted by McBearclaw at 8:12 AM on December 4, 2024 [9 favorites]
As someone with astigmatism, I agree that the LED lights mean I drive as little as possible at night
posted by Higherfasterforwards at 8:40 AM on December 4, 2024 [5 favorites]
posted by Higherfasterforwards at 8:40 AM on December 4, 2024 [5 favorites]
Was delighted to see Ray Magliozzi weigh in on the issue.
posted by The Ardship of Cambry at 8:55 AM on December 4, 2024 [3 favorites]
posted by The Ardship of Cambry at 8:55 AM on December 4, 2024 [3 favorites]
I do hate 'em. What I didn't see discussed in the article as an effect being produced, viz why the glare is bad for other drivers, is the mechanism of the recipient's pupils contracting because of the bright light being shone into them, meaning it takes a while for the recipient to get adjusted back to the light levels before the bright light. This might be implicit in "glare" but I think unpacking "why glare is bad" might be a plank in any argument against overly bright headlights.
If one wants to be able to see the road immediately post-bright-lights, the only way is to have ridiculous headlights oneself, so that one isn't trying vainly to adjust one's vision so extremely- and hence the "arms race". I think the color also probably impacts night vision too (this is why you'd use a red tinted flashlight to maintain night vision)
posted by aesop at 8:56 AM on December 4, 2024
If one wants to be able to see the road immediately post-bright-lights, the only way is to have ridiculous headlights oneself, so that one isn't trying vainly to adjust one's vision so extremely- and hence the "arms race". I think the color also probably impacts night vision too (this is why you'd use a red tinted flashlight to maintain night vision)
posted by aesop at 8:56 AM on December 4, 2024
Because it's not regulated by law, it's not really regulated how they work. This is a legal issue (not defining a universal standard), rather than a technological one...
The only time I feel I would do a better job is when I can see the faint glow of a car coming from around a corner and I pre-emptively switch off your beams, rather than waiting for the car's headlamps to appear first.
Pedestrians and cyclists exist, and don't seem to be accounted for by this system at all. Instead you're encouraging relying on a technological solution that ignores them, training drivers not to think about manually dipping their lights.
posted by Dysk at 9:00 AM on December 4, 2024 [3 favorites]
The only time I feel I would do a better job is when I can see the faint glow of a car coming from around a corner and I pre-emptively switch off your beams, rather than waiting for the car's headlamps to appear first.
Pedestrians and cyclists exist, and don't seem to be accounted for by this system at all. Instead you're encouraging relying on a technological solution that ignores them, training drivers not to think about manually dipping their lights.
posted by Dysk at 9:00 AM on December 4, 2024 [3 favorites]
My Volvo C40 has a feature to help with headlight glare called Pixel LED headlights. They automatically dim part of the light if it would shine directly at another car. You can see video of it working here.
My US Volvo C40 does not have this feature. Because it is disabled in the US, because the federal regulators haven't approved it. So this safety feature solving this exact headlight problem sits unused. I'm told there's a software hack where I can enable it but I don't want the NHTSA cops to bust me.
The article talks about a related problem: "the main issue with 108’s guidelines when applied to LEDs is that there’s no maximum brightness for certain areas of a headlight." That means certain parts of the light are too bright. My car would love to make those same parts dimmer to spare the eyes of other drivers.
posted by Nelson at 9:21 AM on December 4, 2024 [2 favorites]
My US Volvo C40 does not have this feature. Because it is disabled in the US, because the federal regulators haven't approved it. So this safety feature solving this exact headlight problem sits unused. I'm told there's a software hack where I can enable it but I don't want the NHTSA cops to bust me.
The article talks about a related problem: "the main issue with 108’s guidelines when applied to LEDs is that there’s no maximum brightness for certain areas of a headlight." That means certain parts of the light are too bright. My car would love to make those same parts dimmer to spare the eyes of other drivers.
posted by Nelson at 9:21 AM on December 4, 2024 [2 favorites]
Do modern headlights not have auto-leveling systems like the HID systems of The Before Times? My Subaru has LED headlights but the leveling system calibrates every time you start the car and keeps them pointed down.
posted by tmt at 9:39 AM on December 4, 2024
posted by tmt at 9:39 AM on December 4, 2024
My US Volvo C40 does not have this feature. Because it is disabled in the US, because the federal regulators haven't approved it. So this safety feature solving this exact headlight problem sits unused. I'm told there's a software hack where I can enable it but I don't want the NHTSA cops to bust me.
I have a late model VW Taos with the same feature — VW brands theirs as "matrix headlamps". Supposedly it can be enabled with an over-the-air software update once/if it's approved by US regulators. Even the limited US version can dim and steer the LEDs away from oncoming traffic but it doesn't do the u-shaped cutout in the illumination pattern when following another vehicle.
At least with the factory LEDs the dims have a /hard/ cutoff in the illumination height where they shouldn't be too distracting for other drivers.
posted by nathan_teske at 9:41 AM on December 4, 2024
I have a late model VW Taos with the same feature — VW brands theirs as "matrix headlamps". Supposedly it can be enabled with an over-the-air software update once/if it's approved by US regulators. Even the limited US version can dim and steer the LEDs away from oncoming traffic but it doesn't do the u-shaped cutout in the illumination pattern when following another vehicle.
At least with the factory LEDs the dims have a /hard/ cutoff in the illumination height where they shouldn't be too distracting for other drivers.
posted by nathan_teske at 9:41 AM on December 4, 2024
I have mild cataracts, not bad enough to really affect my vision and warrant surgery but definitely enough to make glare around lights. Driving at night is increasingly unpleasant.
I left Texas 25 years ago. I recall the required annual vehicle inspections including a test of headlight alignment. Been thinking about that a lot lately.
posted by neuron at 9:42 AM on December 4, 2024 [2 favorites]
I left Texas 25 years ago. I recall the required annual vehicle inspections including a test of headlight alignment. Been thinking about that a lot lately.
posted by neuron at 9:42 AM on December 4, 2024 [2 favorites]
The Porsche Macan Electric Is Being Recalled Because Its Headlights Are Too Bright
As per the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA), the upper beams on certain Macan Electric models aren’t calibrated properly and may shine too bright, which could reduce visibility for incoming drivers and thus increase the risk of a crash. Due to a software data set error, the affected vehicles were programmed from the factory after the Economic Commission for Europe (ECE) specs, whereas U.S.-spec vehicles need to conform to the requirements of the Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standard (FMVSS).posted by JoeZydeco at 9:50 AM on December 4, 2024 [1 favorite]
It's a problem here in the UK too. Only yesterday evening Mrs Clanger and I drove to the big local garden centre. As I pulled into the car park a car was sitting at the far end facing me with its headlights on. They were so bright I could barely see anything else, which was quite a concern in a car park with shoppers wandering around.
Here there is still, thank goodness, a strong culture of not tolerating drivers who leave their main beams on. Not dipping your lights will usually get you flashed by oncoming drivers. Our Nissan Leaf has auto-dipping headlights that generally work pretty well and if anything seem set up to be a bit too ready to dip and rather slow to return to main beam. That said, for a few months last year I was driving a borrowed Mazda (2022 model) where I gave up on the auto-dip feature because it was slow to react and I was regularly getting flashed by drivers coming the other way who assumed I was dozy with the dip switch.
posted by Major Clanger at 10:19 AM on December 4, 2024
Here there is still, thank goodness, a strong culture of not tolerating drivers who leave their main beams on. Not dipping your lights will usually get you flashed by oncoming drivers. Our Nissan Leaf has auto-dipping headlights that generally work pretty well and if anything seem set up to be a bit too ready to dip and rather slow to return to main beam. That said, for a few months last year I was driving a borrowed Mazda (2022 model) where I gave up on the auto-dip feature because it was slow to react and I was regularly getting flashed by drivers coming the other way who assumed I was dozy with the dip switch.
posted by Major Clanger at 10:19 AM on December 4, 2024
Once upon a time cars had two headlight settings: low beams and high beams.
Today's cars have two headlight settings: high beams and asshole.
posted by ZenMasterThis at 10:19 AM on December 4, 2024 [4 favorites]
Today's cars have two headlight settings: high beams and asshole.
posted by ZenMasterThis at 10:19 AM on December 4, 2024 [4 favorites]
symbioid & etc will be interested in how the Secret Service does, or did this. When I lived in DC on the mid80s I'd occasionslly encounter Vice President Bush driving downtown in the morning, and the final car in his motorcade had a bright headlight mounted in the rear window which automatically swept back and forth, forcing trailing traffic to stay back.
I can imagine the relish with which a cop would issue a fix-it-ticket if he encountered this mod in a private vehicle.
And speaking of enforcement I've encoumtered annual safety inspections which checked headlight alignment, in DC and Virginia - don't they do that anymore?
posted by Rash at 10:21 AM on December 4, 2024
I can imagine the relish with which a cop would issue a fix-it-ticket if he encountered this mod in a private vehicle.
And speaking of enforcement I've encoumtered annual safety inspections which checked headlight alignment, in DC and Virginia - don't they do that anymore?
posted by Rash at 10:21 AM on December 4, 2024
I have glasses and astigmatism and I can't drive at night at all anymore. It's miserable. I have several evening meetings I'm supposed to attend for work that are 15 miles away and I either have to risk my life - and your life, if you're on the road, because I cannot see you - or beg rides from coworkers, which is inconvenient for them, since I am supposed to be there earlier than anyone else. There are also all kinds of things I would like to do that are off limits now if I can't be back in town by 4:30. I drive around town okay because I know it so well and I'm going slowly anyway, but I still get blinded regularly.
I've always thought headlights are more for other drivers to see you than for you to see. This is particularly true in dense fog, which we get regularly here. If you are driving a gray car in a pea soup fog, you are invisible if you don't have lights on. I wish more people understood that.
posted by mygothlaundry at 10:23 AM on December 4, 2024 [6 favorites]
I've always thought headlights are more for other drivers to see you than for you to see. This is particularly true in dense fog, which we get regularly here. If you are driving a gray car in a pea soup fog, you are invisible if you don't have lights on. I wish more people understood that.
posted by mygothlaundry at 10:23 AM on December 4, 2024 [6 favorites]
Yeah, I do not like trying to see where the cars are behind me/in my blind spot in the rain now--all I see is lights but not where. I also don't enjoy having to drive down a narrow, concrete-barrier-reinforced 2 lane highway while all the lights going in the other direction are blinding my ass.
It never occurred to me that it was an astigmatism problem, though.
posted by jenfullmoon at 11:13 AM on December 4, 2024 [1 favorite]
It never occurred to me that it was an astigmatism problem, though.
posted by jenfullmoon at 11:13 AM on December 4, 2024 [1 favorite]
When I've had my car inspected in Texas, they just cared that the lights were working, not where the beams are pointed. Not that it matters much, because inspections won't be required after this year.
posted by Spike Glee at 11:20 AM on December 4, 2024 [1 favorite]
posted by Spike Glee at 11:20 AM on December 4, 2024 [1 favorite]
I don't think I've ever gotten someone to turn on their headlights or turn off their headbeams by flickering my own lights at them, although I've tried and still do. When I'm on my bike however it's pretty easy for me to pull up to the car at a red light, get them to roll down their window and then tell them to turn on their lights. I probably end up doing it once a week but there are many cars which I don't end up catching at a red.
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 11:33 AM on December 4, 2024
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 11:33 AM on December 4, 2024
They've polled the people living in places where those matrix headlights have been around for years and 80% still say headlights are too bright.
As mentioned in the article, attempting to solve a problem created by technology with more technology is usually a losing proposition.
posted by drstrangelove at 12:56 PM on December 4, 2024 [1 favorite]
As mentioned in the article, attempting to solve a problem created by technology with more technology is usually a losing proposition.
posted by drstrangelove at 12:56 PM on December 4, 2024 [1 favorite]
I honestly don't find much to be all that concerned about.
IT'S NOT A PROBLEM FOR ME SO IT'S NOT A PROBLEM FOR ANYONE.
posted by drstrangelove at 12:59 PM on December 4, 2024 [7 favorites]
IT'S NOT A PROBLEM FOR ME SO IT'S NOT A PROBLEM FOR ANYONE.
posted by drstrangelove at 12:59 PM on December 4, 2024 [7 favorites]
At our local pharmacy I bought some yellow-tinted sunglasses that claimed to ameliorate some of the glare. Actually they do help, a little bit. At least for this year.
Iʻve always wondered why this isnʻt an obvious problem to all drivers, as those who are driving cars using these dangerously bright lights must also suffer from the blinding oncoming traffic.
Every time I flashed my brights at someone whose lights were blinding me, I felt that my 2013-era high beams had made as much effect on the oncoming driver as an old flashlight would have. So I gave up on this tactic awhile back.
Naively perhaps, I keep thinking that filtering these headlights by modifying their existing external windowlettes could be a stopgap solution.
Thanks so much for this thread. I donʻt feel so alone in my rage anymore.
And OK, Iʻm buying and installing that retro reflective tape.
posted by Droll Lord at 1:59 PM on December 4, 2024
Iʻve always wondered why this isnʻt an obvious problem to all drivers, as those who are driving cars using these dangerously bright lights must also suffer from the blinding oncoming traffic.
Every time I flashed my brights at someone whose lights were blinding me, I felt that my 2013-era high beams had made as much effect on the oncoming driver as an old flashlight would have. So I gave up on this tactic awhile back.
Naively perhaps, I keep thinking that filtering these headlights by modifying their existing external windowlettes could be a stopgap solution.
Thanks so much for this thread. I donʻt feel so alone in my rage anymore.
And OK, Iʻm buying and installing that retro reflective tape.
posted by Droll Lord at 1:59 PM on December 4, 2024
The NHTSA has completely given up on any kind of data-based regulation:
Cars gotten twice as large as stock top of hood is 5-6 ft in the air? Sure!
Absolutely no visibility out the back? Totally cool!
Blinding headlights!! Heck yeah.
Acceleration in affordable cars that bests high thrill amusement park rides? Why not.
posted by The_Vegetables at 3:05 PM on December 4, 2024 [5 favorites]
Cars gotten twice as large as stock top of hood is 5-6 ft in the air? Sure!
Absolutely no visibility out the back? Totally cool!
Blinding headlights!! Heck yeah.
Acceleration in affordable cars that bests high thrill amusement park rides? Why not.
posted by The_Vegetables at 3:05 PM on December 4, 2024 [5 favorites]
Driving in unlit areas at night was fine before 2005 or so: if you were alone the high beams were plenty, and if there were other cars you could use their lights to see the whole road. Occasionally you'd get a "blue light special" car with HIDs that would make you look away, but even then they didn't instantly blind you.
Then more and more cars came out with projectors, and they were often adjusted right in your face like a high beam. Even glancing in their general direction would screw up my vision for a while. I was still in the habit of flashing high beams to remind them, but after a couple times getting the REAL high beams I just quit flashing ever. I don't even bother to signal people with no lights on, as it's usually someone mistaking their LED running lights with headlights, and I can hardly blame them.
I got a basic 2010 Hyundai a couple of years ago, and it's nice how bright the halogen projectors are compared to my previous car's reflector housing (which in turn was a nice step up over halogen sealed beams). I was worried about causing glare when I first got it, but nobody has ever flashed me. With my former car, sometimes cars behind me would be so bright and following so close that it would wash out my headlights, and I'd be driving blind into my own car's shadow. I didn't want to get the illegal LED bulbs, but honestly I probably should have. Whenever I see an approaching car that's not even average brightness turn off their high beams, I wish I could tell them not to bother. It's also a bit nostalgic, like pulling out of a parking space and realizing you can actually see what you're doing because the car next to you isn't just a wall of steel and blacked-out glass, and remembering that most cars used to be like that.
I've always kept my side mirrors adjusted out like this, so the only glare I get from them is people next to me, and it's easy to slow down a little so they pass. If the dim mode on the rear view isn't dim enough for some absurd LED headlights behind me, I tilt it up past seeing anything. When the headliner stops glowing bright enough to read by, I know I can adjust it back down. I have no idea what to do about oncoming cars other than stare at the fog line and hope there's nothing in the road. Yellow glasses help a little... I've thought about building an improved version using dichroic filters to target the LED emission spectra.
posted by netowl at 3:21 PM on December 4, 2024 [3 favorites]
Then more and more cars came out with projectors, and they were often adjusted right in your face like a high beam. Even glancing in their general direction would screw up my vision for a while. I was still in the habit of flashing high beams to remind them, but after a couple times getting the REAL high beams I just quit flashing ever. I don't even bother to signal people with no lights on, as it's usually someone mistaking their LED running lights with headlights, and I can hardly blame them.
I got a basic 2010 Hyundai a couple of years ago, and it's nice how bright the halogen projectors are compared to my previous car's reflector housing (which in turn was a nice step up over halogen sealed beams). I was worried about causing glare when I first got it, but nobody has ever flashed me. With my former car, sometimes cars behind me would be so bright and following so close that it would wash out my headlights, and I'd be driving blind into my own car's shadow. I didn't want to get the illegal LED bulbs, but honestly I probably should have. Whenever I see an approaching car that's not even average brightness turn off their high beams, I wish I could tell them not to bother. It's also a bit nostalgic, like pulling out of a parking space and realizing you can actually see what you're doing because the car next to you isn't just a wall of steel and blacked-out glass, and remembering that most cars used to be like that.
I've always kept my side mirrors adjusted out like this, so the only glare I get from them is people next to me, and it's easy to slow down a little so they pass. If the dim mode on the rear view isn't dim enough for some absurd LED headlights behind me, I tilt it up past seeing anything. When the headliner stops glowing bright enough to read by, I know I can adjust it back down. I have no idea what to do about oncoming cars other than stare at the fog line and hope there's nothing in the road. Yellow glasses help a little... I've thought about building an improved version using dichroic filters to target the LED emission spectra.
posted by netowl at 3:21 PM on December 4, 2024 [3 favorites]
With my former car, sometimes cars behind me would be so bright and following so close that it would wash out my headlights, and I'd be driving blind into my own car's shadow.
That never would have occurred to me just thinking about the issue in the abstract, but it is an extremely telling observation!
I wouldn’t be surprised if a court case or two in which the plaintiff/victim cited this effect would make the insurance industry reconsider their 'brighter is always better' stance.
posted by jamjam at 3:43 PM on December 4, 2024 [2 favorites]
That never would have occurred to me just thinking about the issue in the abstract, but it is an extremely telling observation!
I wouldn’t be surprised if a court case or two in which the plaintiff/victim cited this effect would make the insurance industry reconsider their 'brighter is always better' stance.
posted by jamjam at 3:43 PM on December 4, 2024 [2 favorites]
A couple of months ago I was waiting at a traffic light to make a left turn onto my street and a pickup truck waiting to make a left in the oncoming lane was just blinding me with its lights. It was dark and with the intensity of those lights pointed right at me I couldn't see whether any other cars were coming in the distance so couldn't make my turn. I flashed my lights at the truck and then they turned on even more lights. Eventually they made their turn and I could see again to make mine but that whole time I was waiting I was just thinking of all the violence I'd like to visit on that truck (and its driver) for creating an unsafe situation simply by existing.
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 4:03 PM on December 4, 2024 [6 favorites]
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 4:03 PM on December 4, 2024 [6 favorites]
...I'll just leave that idea as fantasy for now.
and
....just suffer in silence like the weak, non-mechanically oriented coward I am.
MittyFilter
posted by wenestvedt at 5:29 PM on December 4, 2024 [3 favorites]
and
....just suffer in silence like the weak, non-mechanically oriented coward I am.
MittyFilter
posted by wenestvedt at 5:29 PM on December 4, 2024 [3 favorites]
data from the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration shows that fatal crashes in dark conditions remain relatively stable. In fact, crashes on lighted roads have risen slightly over the past two decades.Lots of ways to get there. Drivers who feel safer with brighter headlights driving faster; drivers who hate bright headlights avoiding night driving when possible; and many people can’t avoid driving. Net effect, slight increase.
posted by clew at 6:39 PM on December 4, 2024
At our local pharmacy I bought some yellow-tinted sunglasses that claimed to ameliorate some of the glare.
Plus they give you what is known as that Pro Bono look.
posted by y2karl at 7:15 PM on December 4, 2024
Plus they give you what is known as that Pro Bono look.
posted by y2karl at 7:15 PM on December 4, 2024
I am an old and so hate the infuriating led lights, but also hate hate hate that everyone turns on all of their lights, all of the time. One of the lamest things to have happened to cars are standardized "fog" lights, they don't help much in actual fog anyway and everyone, everyone drives with them on at all times, from "granola ladies" in subarus to big, big men in their giant big man trucks. Fuck each and every one of them.
I am an old too. I am one of those guys with a pickup who leaves his fog lights on. I started doing it when I found out that they go off/out automatically when my brights are on. If you see an oncoming car with its foglights on, (assuming factory installed), it means that no matter how bright or annoying their lights are, they are not their brights, just really poorly aimed LEDs or overlybright ones, etc. I stopped flashing people when I saw their fog lights on.
posted by JohnnyGunn at 7:31 PM on December 4, 2024
I have questions, and I am certainly not defending bright LED lights or saying your problems aren't legit.
1. My rearview mirror has a little tab at the bottom, and when I flip it, the mirror changes angles or something and light coming from behind is dimmed. This doesn't solve the problem on the sides, but it sure does help. Does no one use that?
2. A lot of talk about fog lights above. To my USian eyes these are a separate set of lights, on my older Forester down closer to the ground, they are round, and maybe colored a little more yellow. I don't even know where the switch to turn them on is. But you all mention people driving with their fog lights on all the time. Is this what I would call the parking lights? In my car those are amber or orange or whatever in the front and red in the back, and are a separate setting between lights off and headlights. And neither is very bright. What am I missing here? Do new cars just have bright fog lights that people turned on once when they bought the car and never turned off again?
3. More of a complaint, and mentioned above: DRLs and cars that illuminate the dashboard even when no switch is turned on. My car does this. You would really never know that your rear lights aren't on because there are forward-facing lights and you can see how fast you are going, even if it's dark.
4. A solution? Oakley used to sell nighttime driving lenses, and they were yellow. And yellow pharmacy glasses (Pro Bono circa 1997 indeed) and yellow glasses to cut out blue light from screens are a thing. Could windshields be polarized or something to dim the effect of the bright LEDs? I don't know how that stuff works (except that yellow cancels out blue for screens), and it would just make things more expensive, but...
posted by Snowishberlin at 6:45 AM on December 5, 2024
1. My rearview mirror has a little tab at the bottom, and when I flip it, the mirror changes angles or something and light coming from behind is dimmed. This doesn't solve the problem on the sides, but it sure does help. Does no one use that?
2. A lot of talk about fog lights above. To my USian eyes these are a separate set of lights, on my older Forester down closer to the ground, they are round, and maybe colored a little more yellow. I don't even know where the switch to turn them on is. But you all mention people driving with their fog lights on all the time. Is this what I would call the parking lights? In my car those are amber or orange or whatever in the front and red in the back, and are a separate setting between lights off and headlights. And neither is very bright. What am I missing here? Do new cars just have bright fog lights that people turned on once when they bought the car and never turned off again?
3. More of a complaint, and mentioned above: DRLs and cars that illuminate the dashboard even when no switch is turned on. My car does this. You would really never know that your rear lights aren't on because there are forward-facing lights and you can see how fast you are going, even if it's dark.
4. A solution? Oakley used to sell nighttime driving lenses, and they were yellow. And yellow pharmacy glasses (Pro Bono circa 1997 indeed) and yellow glasses to cut out blue light from screens are a thing. Could windshields be polarized or something to dim the effect of the bright LEDs? I don't know how that stuff works (except that yellow cancels out blue for screens), and it would just make things more expensive, but...
posted by Snowishberlin at 6:45 AM on December 5, 2024
I hate this so much. I drive with sunglasses on, even at night, otherwise I wouldn't be able to drive at all. Especially when it's raining! My sunnies aren't very dark (they're prescription) but it's just enough to take the edge off - even still I sometimes have to cover the blinding lights with my hand.
posted by goo at 6:56 AM on December 5, 2024
posted by goo at 6:56 AM on December 5, 2024
My rearview mirror has a little tab at the bottom, and when I flip it, the mirror changes angles or something and light coming from behind is dimmed. This doesn't solve the problem on the sides, but it sure does help. Does no one use that?
My car doesn't have that. I have a rear-view mirror. If I want to move it, I move it with my hand. And I was taught in drivers' ed in 1992 to fix the mirror before I start the car and then not to mess with the mirror while I'm driving.
posted by hydropsyche at 6:56 AM on December 5, 2024 [1 favorite]
My car doesn't have that. I have a rear-view mirror. If I want to move it, I move it with my hand. And I was taught in drivers' ed in 1992 to fix the mirror before I start the car and then not to mess with the mirror while I'm driving.
posted by hydropsyche at 6:56 AM on December 5, 2024 [1 favorite]
I always flip my rear-view mirror to 'night mode' but as mentioned above, the rear TV camera tech is now being integrated into the rear view mirror, perhaps improving things (but I wouldn't know, my vehicles are all too old to be so equiped).
posted by Rash at 9:39 AM on December 5, 2024
posted by Rash at 9:39 AM on December 5, 2024
Congratulations! You are in the lucky group of people who isn't bothered by these lights. Other people are. Different people experience things differently. This was actually addressed in the fpp
IT'S NOT A PROBLEM FOR ME SO IT'S NOT A PROBLEM FOR ANYONE.
Yes. I speak as one of the people privileged to drive daily in Los Angeles, (while being old and with an astigmatism!) where traffic is exceptionally well mannered and drivers considerate and rational. Therefore, this isn't a problem, never has been, never will be.
Threads like these, more and more common here, seem more about finding comfort in shared misery and getting the idea that MetaFilter is more representative of reality than it actually is.
posted by 2N2222 at 1:24 PM on December 5, 2024
My rearview mirror has a little tab at the bottom, and when I flip it, the mirror changes angles or something and light coming from behind is dimmed. This doesn't solve the problem on the sides, but it sure does help. Does no one use that?
My car doesn't have that. I have a rear-view mirror. If I want to move it, I move it with my hand. And I was taught in drivers' ed in 1992 to fix the mirror before I start the car and then not to mess with the mirror while I'm driving.
That's really odd. I don't recall seeing a relatively modern (less than 40 years old) car that didn't have the anti glare tab on the rear view mirror. It isn't for overall adjustment. It's for nighttime driving specifically to reduce glare, that flips the mirror a preset angle to a dimmer reflective surface. It shouldn't need adjusting at all.
posted by 2N2222 at 1:33 PM on December 5, 2024 [2 favorites]
My rearview mirror has a little tab at the bottom, and when I flip it, the mirror changes angles or something and light coming from behind is dimmed.
My 2005 base Nissan has an auto adjusting mirror but my 2012 slightly better than base Honda doesn't. Honda cheaps out on so many random things.
posted by The_Vegetables at 1:55 PM on December 5, 2024
That's really odd. I don't recall seeing a relatively modern (less than 40 years old) car that didn't have the anti glare tab on the rear view mirror.
I don't know, dude. I guess you just drive nicer cars than me. Welcome to the world of the lower middle class. Still driving a 2010 Honda hatchback and hoping it lasts a few more years.
posted by hydropsyche at 2:12 PM on December 5, 2024 [2 favorites]
I don't know, dude. I guess you just drive nicer cars than me. Welcome to the world of the lower middle class. Still driving a 2010 Honda hatchback and hoping it lasts a few more years.
posted by hydropsyche at 2:12 PM on December 5, 2024 [2 favorites]
I don't know, dude. I guess you just drive nicer cars than me. Welcome to the world of the lower middle class. Still driving a 2010 Honda hatchback and hoping it lasts a few more years.
I don't think this thing actually works, but it is pretty universal. I just googled 2010 Honda interior and found this picture of a 2010 Honda Accord. See that little square thing on the bottom of the mirror? That's it. Are you sure your mirror doesn't have that little square? Pull/push on it. It will change the angle of your mirror. I'm not convinced you will be any less annoyed by the lights, but that's the thing being described.
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 2:27 PM on December 5, 2024 [2 favorites]
I don't think this thing actually works, but it is pretty universal. I just googled 2010 Honda interior and found this picture of a 2010 Honda Accord. See that little square thing on the bottom of the mirror? That's it. Are you sure your mirror doesn't have that little square? Pull/push on it. It will change the angle of your mirror. I'm not convinced you will be any less annoyed by the lights, but that's the thing being described.
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 2:27 PM on December 5, 2024 [2 favorites]
It's dark right now, so I can't go out to my car to take a picture (and then find a place to host a picture to share with you), but no, my 2010 Honda Insight does not have that thing. I'm sorry, y'all. Not all cars are exactly the same.
posted by hydropsyche at 3:20 PM on December 5, 2024
posted by hydropsyche at 3:20 PM on December 5, 2024
I don't recall seeing a relatively modern car that didn't have the anti -lare tab on the rear view mirror
Nor do I, but I never drive Hondas, which seems to be the culprit, based on comments upthread. Seems like it would be a legally mandated safety feature for all makes and models, but I guess not.
posted by Rash at 3:30 PM on December 5, 2024
Nor do I, but I never drive Hondas, which seems to be the culprit, based on comments upthread. Seems like it would be a legally mandated safety feature for all makes and models, but I guess not.
posted by Rash at 3:30 PM on December 5, 2024
I dunno, I have a 2006 base model Honda and it has that tab, which works great. My old '93 Tercel had it too. If I had a car that didn't I would seriously consider installing one. It's magic.
posted by Rumple at 3:43 PM on December 5, 2024
posted by Rumple at 3:43 PM on December 5, 2024
Anti-glare rear view mirror
On manual tilt versions, a tab is used to adjust the mirror between "day" and "night" positions. In the day view position, the front surface is tilted and the reflective back side gives a strong reflection. When the mirror is moved to the night view position, its reflecting rear surface is tilted out of line with the driver's view. This view is actually a reflection of the low-reflection front surface; only a much-reduced amount of light is reflected in the driver's eyes.posted by Nelson at 4:28 PM on December 5, 2024
"Manual tilt" day/night mirrors first began appearing in the 1930s and became standard equipment on most passenger cars and trucks by the early 1970s.
Looking up the 2010 Honda Insight owner's manual, it talks about the rear view mirror switch on page 144. Most cars have the type that stick down that you push back and forth, but that Insight seems to have the more hidden type with a rotating lever on the back.
Every car I've had came equipped with a mirror switch, and I use it all the time. Most days it's plenty. Sometimes it's not enough and I have to further adjust the mirror away. I think adjusting a mirror is way better than trying to block glare with your hand, or even just moving your head out of the glare.
While we're asking about people's knowledge of their cars, I assume everyone knows the blue headlight symbol means "high beams" not "headlights are on" right? You should never have the high beams on when they would cause glare for another car, including the car in front of you, and including not turning them back on until you're completely past the car you dimmed the lights for. While I can't really tell high beams from bright low beams unless they switch, lots of people switch them back on when they shouldn't. There was only one time a guy behind me was on high beams, then lowered for an oncoming car, then fucking turned them back on once that car was past, but don't do that. Oddly enough it's rare for approaching cars on a straight road to wait too long to dim... it's either constant lights the whole way or dimming with plenty of time (though often still too bright).
I think how much of a hard time people have with night driving varies a lot. It varies person-to-person. It varies by age. It depends on the car: a high beltline, high seat position, and dark tints help reduce the glare. Which I guess is good because nearly every new vehicle have those, along with absurdly bright headlights.
As far as I can tell, I'm in the middle part of being annoyed by them. Generally not enraged, but trying to avoid night driving. I don't think brighter lights have helped visibility... just the other day I was passing a completely unlit mid-block crosswalk keeping my eyes down because of an oncoming average-bright car. I was shocked to see a pedestrian waiting at the crosswalk just moments before I passed through. Looking in the rear-view, none of the other 5 cars going through the crosswalk from either direction even touched the brakes, but that's hardly an excuse. If I was the car lighting czar I'd implement a new version of the sealed-beam: completely standard light patterns for every car, and external physical alignment tabs for any cop to use with a handheld checking tool. Car companies would hate it, but it would shut down the brightness competition (e.g. the disgusting Mercedes ad in the article). Don't like the looks? I guess we're back to pop-up lights.
posted by netowl at 7:42 PM on December 5, 2024
Every car I've had came equipped with a mirror switch, and I use it all the time. Most days it's plenty. Sometimes it's not enough and I have to further adjust the mirror away. I think adjusting a mirror is way better than trying to block glare with your hand, or even just moving your head out of the glare.
While we're asking about people's knowledge of their cars, I assume everyone knows the blue headlight symbol means "high beams" not "headlights are on" right? You should never have the high beams on when they would cause glare for another car, including the car in front of you, and including not turning them back on until you're completely past the car you dimmed the lights for. While I can't really tell high beams from bright low beams unless they switch, lots of people switch them back on when they shouldn't. There was only one time a guy behind me was on high beams, then lowered for an oncoming car, then fucking turned them back on once that car was past, but don't do that. Oddly enough it's rare for approaching cars on a straight road to wait too long to dim... it's either constant lights the whole way or dimming with plenty of time (though often still too bright).
I think how much of a hard time people have with night driving varies a lot. It varies person-to-person. It varies by age. It depends on the car: a high beltline, high seat position, and dark tints help reduce the glare. Which I guess is good because nearly every new vehicle have those, along with absurdly bright headlights.
As far as I can tell, I'm in the middle part of being annoyed by them. Generally not enraged, but trying to avoid night driving. I don't think brighter lights have helped visibility... just the other day I was passing a completely unlit mid-block crosswalk keeping my eyes down because of an oncoming average-bright car. I was shocked to see a pedestrian waiting at the crosswalk just moments before I passed through. Looking in the rear-view, none of the other 5 cars going through the crosswalk from either direction even touched the brakes, but that's hardly an excuse. If I was the car lighting czar I'd implement a new version of the sealed-beam: completely standard light patterns for every car, and external physical alignment tabs for any cop to use with a handheld checking tool. Car companies would hate it, but it would shut down the brightness competition (e.g. the disgusting Mercedes ad in the article). Don't like the looks? I guess we're back to pop-up lights.
posted by netowl at 7:42 PM on December 5, 2024
Okay, so let's say my car does apparently have some magic hidden switch that I will look for after the sun comes up. The reason I didn't know that is that, in my entire 30+ years of driving, I have never had need of such a switch until the past few years because headlights behind me didn't used to be death rays. And now they are. And I don't see the purpose of the fucking death rays.
posted by hydropsyche at 4:09 AM on December 6, 2024 [3 favorites]
posted by hydropsyche at 4:09 AM on December 6, 2024 [3 favorites]
Yes, my car has a magic switch hidden behind the rearview mirror. I’ll see tonight if that helps with that problem. Any magic switches for side mirrors, the giant shadow from the headlights behind me, or the oncoming headlights that complete blind me? Or maybe it makes more sense to just regulate the brightness of headlights so i don’t need magic switches?
posted by hydropsyche at 8:19 AM on December 6, 2024 [3 favorites]
posted by hydropsyche at 8:19 AM on December 6, 2024 [3 favorites]
The use case for that switch was always (I was taught) when you had a tall vehicle behind you, like a semi, where the lights were unavoidably right at mirror level. It's super useful for that! It's not a fix at all for *everyone's* lights being too bright and aimed too high.
posted by restless_nomad at 8:58 AM on December 6, 2024 [1 favorite]
posted by restless_nomad at 8:58 AM on December 6, 2024 [1 favorite]
Do… do people not put their rear view mirror in night mode just in general when driving at night, for all headlights, even regular non-high beams and non-excessively bright ones… ?
In every car I’ve ever been in, it’s a little tab at the bottom center of the mirror, and we were taught about it in driver’s ed, in addition to seeing my parents use it regularly while growing up. So the absence of such a tab would be kind of immediately obvious, and make me go looking for an alternative.
Nowadays some trucks and SUVs are combo too tall and have too bright the lights that the night mode for my rear view mirror is sometimes no longer enough, unfortunately.
posted by eviemath at 1:43 PM on December 6, 2024
In every car I’ve ever been in, it’s a little tab at the bottom center of the mirror, and we were taught about it in driver’s ed, in addition to seeing my parents use it regularly while growing up. So the absence of such a tab would be kind of immediately obvious, and make me go looking for an alternative.
Nowadays some trucks and SUVs are combo too tall and have too bright the lights that the night mode for my rear view mirror is sometimes no longer enough, unfortunately.
posted by eviemath at 1:43 PM on December 6, 2024
Do… do people not put their rear view mirror in night mode just in general when driving at night, for all headlights, even regular non-high beams and non-excessively bright ones… ?
Well in my Nissan is automatic, but I don't always in my Honda. Like hydropsyche says it only helps for the rear view, not the the sideview mirrors, so IMO it's use is kind of limited. If traffic is heavy and I'm driving for a long time in a dark stretch, I'll flip the little thing down.
posted by The_Vegetables at 3:19 PM on December 6, 2024
Well in my Nissan is automatic, but I don't always in my Honda. Like hydropsyche says it only helps for the rear view, not the the sideview mirrors, so IMO it's use is kind of limited. If traffic is heavy and I'm driving for a long time in a dark stretch, I'll flip the little thing down.
posted by The_Vegetables at 3:19 PM on December 6, 2024
I am even more confused now. What does the fact that the day/night modes on a rearview mirror only impacts the rearview mirror and not other mirrors have to do with it? A roof only protects you from rain falling down, not being blown sideways, but if the forecast calls for chance of showers, I’d still set my picnic up under a picnic shelter or tarp - or be prepared to move to one/set up a tarp quickly should rain start - rather than just continue sitting out in the middle of a field with soggy lunch in the rain?
posted by eviemath at 4:11 AM on December 7, 2024
posted by eviemath at 4:11 AM on December 7, 2024
Honestly, the rear-view mirror problem is pretty minor compared to the being blinded by oncoming headlights problem for me. The rear-view mirror and side-view mirror glare is annoying. I have almost driven off the road multiple times because of oncoming headlights.
And millions of other people seem to feel the same way, hence all the complaints to the NHTSA. And there's just no reason for it. We all drove fine with less bright headlights. The data show that the brighter headlights are not improving safety, and in some cases may actually be increasing accidents. Regulating them seems like a pretty obvious thing to do.
posted by hydropsyche at 4:27 AM on December 7, 2024 [2 favorites]
And millions of other people seem to feel the same way, hence all the complaints to the NHTSA. And there's just no reason for it. We all drove fine with less bright headlights. The data show that the brighter headlights are not improving safety, and in some cases may actually be increasing accidents. Regulating them seems like a pretty obvious thing to do.
posted by hydropsyche at 4:27 AM on December 7, 2024 [2 favorites]
I guess I was initially replying to restless-nomad’s comment to note that the use case for night setting on a rearview mirror is for all headlights behind you at night, not just taller vehicles; while agreeing that lately even the night setting seems inadequately effective in some cases. But even if you are the rare person whose eyes wouldn’t be impacted by the contrast between normal headlights and relatively darker surroundings(*), part of the purpose of the night setting is that having it on prevents any sudden temporary vision impacts if a brighter vehicle does appear behind you - only flipping your mirror on a case-by-case basis seems counter to the safety purpose of the setting that was the whole reason why it became standard on cars decades ago in the first place. Kind of like putting your seatbelt on only once you start getting into a crash. The prevention of annoyance beyond what impacts strictly safety issues has been the main topic of this discussion thread so far, but as I understand it that’s not actually the main reason for the night mode on rearview mirrors.
(* I guess there are parts of major cities where the ambient nighttime light is bright enough that this isn’t an issue, but it certainly still is when driving around the major highways around NYC or DC in traffic, in my experience. There are some very remote roads I’ve been on where I’d leave my rearview mirror in day mode, not just due to lack of other drivers but also because the setup of the road is such that no one will be quickly turning on to the road or appearing behind me over a hill - out in desert or plains where you can see everything coming from far away. But by the remoteness of such situations, that also won’t be the situation most people are driving in most of the time.)
posted by eviemath at 4:35 AM on December 7, 2024
(* I guess there are parts of major cities where the ambient nighttime light is bright enough that this isn’t an issue, but it certainly still is when driving around the major highways around NYC or DC in traffic, in my experience. There are some very remote roads I’ve been on where I’d leave my rearview mirror in day mode, not just due to lack of other drivers but also because the setup of the road is such that no one will be quickly turning on to the road or appearing behind me over a hill - out in desert or plains where you can see everything coming from far away. But by the remoteness of such situations, that also won’t be the situation most people are driving in most of the time.)
posted by eviemath at 4:35 AM on December 7, 2024
Fair enough. It never really bothers me so I never think to do it, but honestly I don't drive at night very much any more (for lifestyle reasons rather than avoidance, although wow does it suck more than it used to.)
posted by restless_nomad at 9:49 AM on December 7, 2024 [1 favorite]
posted by restless_nomad at 9:49 AM on December 7, 2024 [1 favorite]
Mod note: [Ouch! We've added this blindingly bright topic to the "It Could Happen To You" collection on the sidebar and Best Of blog!]
posted by taz (staff) at 1:29 AM on December 10, 2024
posted by taz (staff) at 1:29 AM on December 10, 2024
And another gripe about over-bright headlights. Driving yesterday a car coming the other way turned off the road. It didn't cut across me but I thought "Huh, another driver who doesn't believe in using indicators", only to see as the car turned that the indicator was on. I just hadn't been able to see it in the glare of the headlights.
posted by Major Clanger at 5:05 AM on December 10, 2024 [2 favorites]
posted by Major Clanger at 5:05 AM on December 10, 2024 [2 favorites]
netowl: You should never have the high beams on when they would cause glare for another car
... or a cyclist. Here in the Netherlands, some roads have a two-way bicycle lane next to the road; it's quite possible for cyclists to be a meter or so two from oncoming cars that don't dim their high beams. Annoying as hell and dangerous too.
posted by Too-Ticky at 5:26 AM on December 10, 2024 [2 favorites]
... or a cyclist. Here in the Netherlands, some roads have a two-way bicycle lane next to the road; it's quite possible for cyclists to be a meter or so two from oncoming cars that don't dim their high beams. Annoying as hell and dangerous too.
posted by Too-Ticky at 5:26 AM on December 10, 2024 [2 favorites]
yyz: I seem to remember in Paris years ago that the headlights were yellow tinged.
Looked weird but less glare.
In 1988 we drove from Berlin to Paris to Monaco to London (after some of the group had started in London). One of us had bought a used car at the Whitechapel car auctions because he was handy and thrifty, which included buying a set of yellow headlamps to swap in specifically for road travel in France.
Honestly I loved those buttery headlights back then, but now, with mid-50s eyes, I wonder how well they would compare to plain, white lights (to say nothing of SCREAMING BLUE LEDs).
posted by wenestvedt at 12:38 PM on December 17, 2024 [1 favorite]
Looked weird but less glare.
In 1988 we drove from Berlin to Paris to Monaco to London (after some of the group had started in London). One of us had bought a used car at the Whitechapel car auctions because he was handy and thrifty, which included buying a set of yellow headlamps to swap in specifically for road travel in France.
Honestly I loved those buttery headlights back then, but now, with mid-50s eyes, I wonder how well they would compare to plain, white lights (to say nothing of SCREAMING BLUE LEDs).
posted by wenestvedt at 12:38 PM on December 17, 2024 [1 favorite]
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But the article also discussed people just leaving their high beams on. I rarely encounter that. I live in the city and I'm also shocked by the amount of people I see driving at night with their lights off. Their permanent daytime runners are on, but their back lights are off except under braking. I used to do a little light flash to try and get their attention but gave up - not one person ever turned their lights on after I tried to give them a heads up.
The article also notes the massive drop in traffic enforcement and it's really obvious where I live. Driving standards are just out the window and despite massive budgets the police cannot be bothered to enforce the rules of the road and politicians one either side of the aisle have shown zero interest in getting them to do so.
posted by thecjm at 8:40 PM on December 3, 2024 [37 favorites]