Trainspoffing
December 12, 2024 3:11 AM Subscribe
Overall rail operators do not deliver satisfactory services. But differences between them show that strong improvements are possible. The sector has not managed to sort things out on its own, which is why policy change is urgently needed. from Mind the gap! Europe’s Rail Operators: a Comparative Ranking [Transport & Environment]
My most common trips in the last 5 years, GWR to London then Eurostar on. No money left.
posted by biffa at 4:56 AM on December 12, 2024 [1 favorite]
posted by biffa at 4:56 AM on December 12, 2024 [1 favorite]
The fact that for Poland they chose PKP, which operates railway stations, not trains, doesn't bode well ;)
(Full report indicates they actually analysed services run by PKP Intercity, a different company than PKP. And Intercity is only one of a dozen train operators in Poland, not even the biggest one, though as the name suggests it runs interregional trains.)
posted by I claim sanctuary at 5:56 AM on December 12, 2024 [4 favorites]
(Full report indicates they actually analysed services run by PKP Intercity, a different company than PKP. And Intercity is only one of a dozen train operators in Poland, not even the biggest one, though as the name suggests it runs interregional trains.)
posted by I claim sanctuary at 5:56 AM on December 12, 2024 [4 favorites]
Clearly, my choosing SBB was a sign of my discerning palette. And that I was in Switzerland for multiple professional trips, I guess.
posted by GenjiandProust at 6:40 AM on December 12, 2024 [1 favorite]
posted by GenjiandProust at 6:40 AM on December 12, 2024 [1 favorite]
I was curious to see where Trenitalia would rank because the service was so amazing when we were there a few years ago. I'd love to have anything resembling that in the US.
posted by moosedogtoo at 6:51 AM on December 12, 2024 [2 favorites]
posted by moosedogtoo at 6:51 AM on December 12, 2024 [2 favorites]
Nothing in usa would even appear on that scale. Subpixel service.
posted by sammyo at 8:07 AM on December 12, 2024 [5 favorites]
posted by sammyo at 8:07 AM on December 12, 2024 [5 favorites]
We've had two trips to Europe (2007 and 2023), on railpasses both times. First trip was 4 countries, next trip just France. Short summary - we loved the EU rail travel experience.
Ah, Switzerland. They apologized over the PA when one train was like a minute late. In 2007 we found the French railroad (SNCF) experience a bit 'casual', but in 2023 they were more punctual.
Train food was OK, not spectacular, but it was easiest to just buy sandwiches or something before boarding, on your way to the station, or in the station. And a bottle of wine.
One thing they could improve: faster trains usually require a seat reservation. We were using their rail pass app for routing and train selection (2023), but you had to go to a different website to do the seat reservation, and there's no linkage between the two. That's nuts. It should all be possible and tracked on the one app.
posted by Artful Codger at 12:40 PM on December 12, 2024 [1 favorite]
Ah, Switzerland. They apologized over the PA when one train was like a minute late. In 2007 we found the French railroad (SNCF) experience a bit 'casual', but in 2023 they were more punctual.
Train food was OK, not spectacular, but it was easiest to just buy sandwiches or something before boarding, on your way to the station, or in the station. And a bottle of wine.
One thing they could improve: faster trains usually require a seat reservation. We were using their rail pass app for routing and train selection (2023), but you had to go to a different website to do the seat reservation, and there's no linkage between the two. That's nuts. It should all be possible and tracked on the one app.
posted by Artful Codger at 12:40 PM on December 12, 2024 [1 favorite]
Yeah it's definitely weird as a North American/Canadian, though one who lives in the part of Ontario where there is a semi-functional but expensive and secondary to freight inter-city train (Via Rail) to go to Europe and try out their train services. Everything seems so fast and convenient and on time and not that expensive! I've fairly extensively used SNCF, Ouigo and Renfe and have been quite pleased with all of them, but wasn't quite sure where they'd fit on a European ranking. Seems that they're among the better services. As the ranking notes, Eurostar is kind of painfully expensive, for real.
We used a couple of train companies in England last year and they were all fine, all seemed reasonably priced and whatnot, but I remember that for one of them (Grand Central; not included on this ranking), when I made an error on my booking day I had to, like, complete a form and email it to them to get a refund, which I could only get after I emailed them explaining my issue. Like, what year is this, 2005? For all the train services I've ever used, in probably like 20 different countries, this step has been pretty painless and seamless. England/the UK's train system is confusing as heck, though that's privatisation for you, I guess.
posted by urbanlenny at 12:42 PM on December 12, 2024 [2 favorites]
We used a couple of train companies in England last year and they were all fine, all seemed reasonably priced and whatnot, but I remember that for one of them (Grand Central; not included on this ranking), when I made an error on my booking day I had to, like, complete a form and email it to them to get a refund, which I could only get after I emailed them explaining my issue. Like, what year is this, 2005? For all the train services I've ever used, in probably like 20 different countries, this step has been pretty painless and seamless. England/the UK's train system is confusing as heck, though that's privatisation for you, I guess.
posted by urbanlenny at 12:42 PM on December 12, 2024 [2 favorites]
England/the UK's train system is confusing as heck, though that's privatisation for you, I guess
see navigators
posted by HearHere at 1:38 PM on December 12, 2024 [1 favorite]
see navigators
posted by HearHere at 1:38 PM on December 12, 2024 [1 favorite]
I'm surprised Deutsche Bahn wasn't further down on the list. When I was in Germany around this time last year it was an utter nightmare in terms of late trains, overcrowding, last minute cancelations, mechanical problems, you name it. We even got stranded in rural Germany because the the upcoming station sign within our car was displaying the wrong info and there were no more trains that night or the next day.
That said, the folks who worked for the train were as helpful as they could possibly be given the circumstances and what they had to work with
posted by treepour at 3:58 PM on December 12, 2024 [2 favorites]
That said, the folks who worked for the train were as helpful as they could possibly be given the circumstances and what they had to work with
posted by treepour at 3:58 PM on December 12, 2024 [2 favorites]
Spain’s Renfe has been a mixed bag in my nearly three years living here. I take it sometimes when I don’t absolutely have to be at my destination on time. And fares tend to be too rich for me. The buses here are very OK and reliable, so if I have a half day of travel in front of me I’ll choose a bus.
But the rides themselves are mostly very pleasant, certainly superior by far to air or car travel. And as is frequent all over the world, the train tracks run through beautiful landscapes.
posted by rabia.elizabeth at 5:41 AM on December 13, 2024
But the rides themselves are mostly very pleasant, certainly superior by far to air or car travel. And as is frequent all over the world, the train tracks run through beautiful landscapes.
posted by rabia.elizabeth at 5:41 AM on December 13, 2024
No Eurostar isn’t the worst performing train company in Europe. But if you’re T&E does it matter? (Jon Worth):
Trying to even compile a ranking like this is comparing apples and oranges.Consultant Slop and Europe’s Decision not to Build High-Speed Rail (Alon Levy):
Eurostar scored zero on the “night trains” category. Amazing! It’s a high speed operator, not a night train operator. And it scored very low on ticket price and low due to an absence of special fares and reductions. But hey ho, it’s a commercial service! Legacy operators like SNCF or DB are going to have lots of special fares that they are obliged to have as hangovers from their time as state owned monopolies.
Meanwhile German operators scored low due to a lack of reliability – not wrong as anyone who has travelled in Germany recently can attest. But I would put money on it that if Trenitalia (the highest scoring) started running trains tomorrow in Germany it would do no better. The quality of the outcome is about the entire system, not just an operator.
[It purports] to rank the different intercity rail operators of Europe, according to criteria that make it clear nobody involved in the process cares much about infrastructure construction or about what has made high-speed rail work at the member state level. It’s consultant slop, based on a McKinsey report that conflicts with the published literature on intercity rail ridership elasticity, which makes it clear that speed matters greatly. ...posted by daveliepmann at 2:21 AM on December 21, 2024
Europe and its institutions have made a collective decision over the last 10 or so years not to build high-speed rail, to the point that activism suggesting it reverse course and do so is treated as self-evidently laughable.
Y'all might like this pullquote better, from the latter piece:
T&E doesn’t seem to care [that speed dominates ridership]. The best hints for the reason why are in the way it compares operators rather than national networks, and relies on a McKinsey report pitched at private entrants and not at member state policymakers, who do not normally outsource decisionmaking to international consultants. It doesn’t think in terms of systems or networks, because it isn’t trying to make a pitch at how a member state can improve its rail network, but rather at how a private competitor should aim to make a profit on infrastructure built previously by the state.
posted by daveliepmann at 2:38 AM on December 21, 2024 [1 favorite]
T&E doesn’t seem to care [that speed dominates ridership]. The best hints for the reason why are in the way it compares operators rather than national networks, and relies on a McKinsey report pitched at private entrants and not at member state policymakers, who do not normally outsource decisionmaking to international consultants. It doesn’t think in terms of systems or networks, because it isn’t trying to make a pitch at how a member state can improve its rail network, but rather at how a private competitor should aim to make a profit on infrastructure built previously by the state.
posted by daveliepmann at 2:38 AM on December 21, 2024 [1 favorite]
FWIW as a semi train person I agree. Also the no building high speed rail may be about to change - a good fifteen years after initial analyses, Poland is about to knuckle down and break ground on the first part of a brand new high speed line connecting Warsaw, Łódź, Wrocław and Poznań, which will allow fast Warsaw-Berlin trains through Poznan and Warsaw-Prague through Wrocław (as well as further travel on now quite decent and at times 200+ km/h lines to Gdańsk, Kraków and Szczecin). Going to be about a decade until that's done, but that's big infrastructure works for you, and I bet we'll still beat HS2 in the UK.
posted by I claim sanctuary at 5:00 AM on December 21, 2024 [2 favorites]
posted by I claim sanctuary at 5:00 AM on December 21, 2024 [2 favorites]
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