Lucrative tools for converting anxiety into income
January 12, 2025 2:58 AM Subscribe
We need to talk about the doomers and the attention economy they’ve built. Not because they’re entirely wrong — from climate change to political extremism, a lot of their concerns are valid — but because they’ve created something extraordinary: a perpetual motion machine powered by anxiety. Let’s call it the Doomscroll Industrial Complex (DIC). It operates on a simple principle: bad news is good business. But unlike traditional doom-peddlers who simply predicted the end times and waited to be proven right or wrong, today’s digital prophets have discovered a much more sustainable model. from How Anxiety Became a Business Model [Joan Westenberg]
Doomscrolling, previously
Doomscrolling, previously
Right? It's fine. No worries.
do you think that if we just worry hard enough about it then things will turn out ok?
posted by Sebmojo at 3:55 AM on January 12 [19 favorites]
do you think that if we just worry hard enough about it then things will turn out ok?
posted by Sebmojo at 3:55 AM on January 12 [19 favorites]
I read as little as possible from people who aren’t able to be specific with their concerns. For example, “if Trump’s tariffs come into effect Canada could see a 5% drop in GDP and unemployment could hit double digits.” That’s specific, and I’ll listen. “The economy will burn to the ground,” not so much.
That’s been my bar for climate change for a while and it helps. If someone is describing a specific impact, then it’s often research-based and not fear based. Also then there’s something to discuss besides how bad everyone should feel about it.
And of course, time is limited. I’m up this morning drinking my coffee and then we’re going to the beach for sunrise and to breakfast with friends. If I sat here and doom scrolled/read for an hour, which I have done, the world would not be a better place.
posted by warriorqueen at 4:06 AM on January 12 [36 favorites]
That’s been my bar for climate change for a while and it helps. If someone is describing a specific impact, then it’s often research-based and not fear based. Also then there’s something to discuss besides how bad everyone should feel about it.
And of course, time is limited. I’m up this morning drinking my coffee and then we’re going to the beach for sunrise and to breakfast with friends. If I sat here and doom scrolled/read for an hour, which I have done, the world would not be a better place.
posted by warriorqueen at 4:06 AM on January 12 [36 favorites]
As a child I did whatever the 70s equivalent of doomscrolling was, and spent a lot of my time fretting about nuclear war. What did I achieve by that, other than setting myself up for a future anxiety disorder? Nothing (well, maybe a knowledge of cold war politics). I too have kids, and I sometimes worry about their futures. But I want them to grow up believing that they can improve things. I tend to find that I get more things done if I'm optimistic about them, and that's what I try to pass on to my kids. It's better for their mental wellbeing, better for mine, and is more likely to produce positive outcomes.
posted by pipeski at 4:12 AM on January 12 [13 favorites]
posted by pipeski at 4:12 AM on January 12 [13 favorites]
This reminds me of a prof in grad school who had a bumper sticker on her office door that said: "in case of rapture, can I have your car?"
posted by wicked_sassy at 4:22 AM on January 12 [5 favorites]
posted by wicked_sassy at 4:22 AM on January 12 [5 favorites]
Joan Westenberg's article feels pretty non-specific, but the specifics do matter. Also her terms "doom", "doomer", and "Schrödinger’s apocalypse" seem designed to silence important discussion, while enabling distraction.
We've many people who study political action, activism, etc, and climate scientissts, who argue that we do not discuss planetary boundaries like climate change enough, ditto their consequences and their feeder concerns like land miss-use.
Also, there are real scientists like Hansen who argue the timeline looks worse than the IPCC compromises, whose voices matter and bear discussion, ala the precautionary principle. At the same time, there are "real doomers" who exagerate the timeline beyond all reason, which results in some damage. I suppose Westenberg's term "Schrödinger’s apocalypse" was selected to enable these harmful timeline exagerations, while silencing the messy discussion of unknowns in real threat timelines.
In reality of course, planetary boundaries like climate change winds up only noticeable over decades or human lifespanes, aka no raptures. We seemingly passed peak food in 2018, so now hunger increases 0.5% per year, not fast but it'll add up fast enough. In fact, we expect this accelerates slightly resulting crop failures and food export restrictions in the late 2040s.
Aside from planetary boundaries, almost all the other doom feels like artificial distraction: Nuclear war would suck for the participants, but nuclear winter was always exagerated, and likely impossible with current stockpiles. Also nuclear war is not an existential threat for the species, nor even much of a threat to the global south. AGI seems incredibly far off. Aliens are bullshit. etc.
We've all the myriad ways people exploit other people matter too, ranging from ongoing resoruce exploitation, phone factories requiring suicide nets, enshitification, AIs bullshit taking jobs, etc. Although less important than planetary boundaries, human exploitation should be widely discussed too. You would not call these doom per se, but actually exploitation winds up being a much larger component of "doom scrolling" than planetary boundaries. Is the article saying we should discuss exploitation less?
Around exploitation, we've the political doom threatre too, which yes many nations have remarkably messed up politics, but really the doom theatre here mostly amounts to US centrism. We've all the negatively oriented human interest stories too. All of this counts when we say "doom scrolling" and in the one source Westenberg cites, but this article lays everything upon slow moving but extremely dangerous topics that diserve more discussion.
As some mefi numbers: We've 537 trump tags, but almost none before 2016 when he ran. We've 405 climate tags, over half of which occured before 2016. As that's the first 2/3rds of the site's lifetime, our usage of the climate tag has kinda doubled, which seems reasonable given the disasters now, but climate still only gets tagged half as much as trump.
posted by jeffburdges at 5:43 AM on January 12 [11 favorites]
We've many people who study political action, activism, etc, and climate scientissts, who argue that we do not discuss planetary boundaries like climate change enough, ditto their consequences and their feeder concerns like land miss-use.
Also, there are real scientists like Hansen who argue the timeline looks worse than the IPCC compromises, whose voices matter and bear discussion, ala the precautionary principle. At the same time, there are "real doomers" who exagerate the timeline beyond all reason, which results in some damage. I suppose Westenberg's term "Schrödinger’s apocalypse" was selected to enable these harmful timeline exagerations, while silencing the messy discussion of unknowns in real threat timelines.
In reality of course, planetary boundaries like climate change winds up only noticeable over decades or human lifespanes, aka no raptures. We seemingly passed peak food in 2018, so now hunger increases 0.5% per year, not fast but it'll add up fast enough. In fact, we expect this accelerates slightly resulting crop failures and food export restrictions in the late 2040s.
Aside from planetary boundaries, almost all the other doom feels like artificial distraction: Nuclear war would suck for the participants, but nuclear winter was always exagerated, and likely impossible with current stockpiles. Also nuclear war is not an existential threat for the species, nor even much of a threat to the global south. AGI seems incredibly far off. Aliens are bullshit. etc.
We've all the myriad ways people exploit other people matter too, ranging from ongoing resoruce exploitation, phone factories requiring suicide nets, enshitification, AIs bullshit taking jobs, etc. Although less important than planetary boundaries, human exploitation should be widely discussed too. You would not call these doom per se, but actually exploitation winds up being a much larger component of "doom scrolling" than planetary boundaries. Is the article saying we should discuss exploitation less?
Around exploitation, we've the political doom threatre too, which yes many nations have remarkably messed up politics, but really the doom theatre here mostly amounts to US centrism. We've all the negatively oriented human interest stories too. All of this counts when we say "doom scrolling" and in the one source Westenberg cites, but this article lays everything upon slow moving but extremely dangerous topics that diserve more discussion.
As some mefi numbers: We've 537 trump tags, but almost none before 2016 when he ran. We've 405 climate tags, over half of which occured before 2016. As that's the first 2/3rds of the site's lifetime, our usage of the climate tag has kinda doubled, which seems reasonable given the disasters now, but climate still only gets tagged half as much as trump.
posted by jeffburdges at 5:43 AM on January 12 [11 favorites]
Hm, yes. Clearly the author of this article is very intelligent; congrats on figuring it all out. I guess we'll be wrapping up this whole op-ed thing now, the massively lucrative operation it is, since as we all know there's a gigantic fortune in sharing one's views on the internet. Well done.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 5:58 AM on January 12 [2 favorites]
posted by kittens for breakfast at 5:58 AM on January 12 [2 favorites]
As a child I did whatever the 70s equivalent of doomscrolling was, and spent a lot of my time fretting about nuclear war. What did I achieve by that, other than setting myself up for a future anxiety disorder?
This is odd framing. I didn't give myself OCD as a child - it's something that started happening to me. No one gives themselves an anxiety disorder.
posted by tiny frying pan at 6:11 AM on January 12 [6 favorites]
This is odd framing. I didn't give myself OCD as a child - it's something that started happening to me. No one gives themselves an anxiety disorder.
posted by tiny frying pan at 6:11 AM on January 12 [6 favorites]
I have a vision that's more and more distant and dream-like: where we don't live in fear causing us to hang on to adrenaline rushes and high cortisol levels caused by 24-hour threatening news and endless-scrolling of one potential threat after another. I have a vision where we're aware in the moment that we do this online, when we're somewhere safe-ish and warm-ish so we can look away from heavy machinery or driving; a vision that we can look away from "and one more thing." (It would be a surprise to me that people in dangerous home situations, perilous workplaces or unhoused living choose doom-scrolling to escape from their current challenges -- but I'm aware there's a limit to my experience and maybe that happens, so let's hope we might all be safe.)
We need the time to discover which of these doom-scrolls are a threat in the next 15 minutes of an adrenaline spike, and we need reassurance from people around us that we're still safe. Some threats are genuine danger and we need trust in our sources to know which are which, and to work collectively with our communities to prevent these real longer-term risks.
Lies might get round the world seven times before the truth gets its boots on, but you're not alone in finding and walking with that truth.
posted by k3ninho at 6:35 AM on January 12 [4 favorites]
We need the time to discover which of these doom-scrolls are a threat in the next 15 minutes of an adrenaline spike, and we need reassurance from people around us that we're still safe. Some threats are genuine danger and we need trust in our sources to know which are which, and to work collectively with our communities to prevent these real longer-term risks.
Lies might get round the world seven times before the truth gets its boots on, but you're not alone in finding and walking with that truth.
posted by k3ninho at 6:35 AM on January 12 [4 favorites]
It's something that started happening to me. No one gives themselves an anxiety disorder
Fair enough. It was a turn of phrase, not an allocation of blame.
posted by pipeski at 6:37 AM on January 12 [5 favorites]
Fair enough. It was a turn of phrase, not an allocation of blame.
posted by pipeski at 6:37 AM on January 12 [5 favorites]
I agree that the lack of specifics here--outside of a single bsky screenshot--erodes the premise. Because she's conflating two things: One, the infinite scroll of Bad Stuff, which is free, and the much more limited scroll of Paywall Stuff. Who is paying for a substack full of climate doom? Not enough people, according to Emily Atkin, who shut down Heated recently. Who, in the Trump II era, is going to pay for more Mueller-Resistance style exclusives? Not many.
I think she's mistaken. There are profitable doom-factories (right-wing conspiracists still seem to do pretty well) but they are different than the doom-scroll, which is more decentralized, a chorus of voices all saying "oh no" all at once.
posted by mittens at 6:38 AM on January 12 [1 favorite]
I think she's mistaken. There are profitable doom-factories (right-wing conspiracists still seem to do pretty well) but they are different than the doom-scroll, which is more decentralized, a chorus of voices all saying "oh no" all at once.
posted by mittens at 6:38 AM on January 12 [1 favorite]
Your comment brought me up short, k3ninho. I interpreted you as saying that a life lived in some kind of precarity makes other fears more salient, makes us chase them, somehow. Is that what you meant? It feels true, as though the experience of repeated trauma could bring a difficulty in engaging in the world in another way. I'm going to sit with that for a bit.
posted by eirias at 6:39 AM on January 12 [2 favorites]
posted by eirias at 6:39 AM on January 12 [2 favorites]
Love this article, like catnip. If it bleeds it leads has been a truism of media for a while and the most lucrative media is not the handful of doomgurus who use this DIC model.
Then there is this gem:
Real problems require nuanced solutions, careful analysis, and boring policy changes. This axiom of centrism is an empirically false claim about how political systems and political change operates. Its spoken as a prior prima facie truth. Remember when we freed the slaves one slave at a time. Or how social security started at age 100 with $1 a month and slowly, incrementally POLITELY it was improved? Remeber how the NIh was founded as social healthcare one nuanced bodypart at a time? Remeber when Regean boringly fired one air-traffic controller per year to accomplish a task over 10,000 years. I digress.
posted by No Climate - No Food, No Food - No Future. at 6:58 AM on January 12 [16 favorites]
Then there is this gem:
Real problems require nuanced solutions, careful analysis, and boring policy changes. This axiom of centrism is an empirically false claim about how political systems and political change operates. Its spoken as a prior prima facie truth. Remember when we freed the slaves one slave at a time. Or how social security started at age 100 with $1 a month and slowly, incrementally POLITELY it was improved? Remeber how the NIh was founded as social healthcare one nuanced bodypart at a time? Remeber when Regean boringly fired one air-traffic controller per year to accomplish a task over 10,000 years. I digress.
posted by No Climate - No Food, No Food - No Future. at 6:58 AM on January 12 [16 favorites]
It is true that the more you pay attention to the news, the worse your mental health. It is true people with depression score higher on tests of accuracy and perception.
Its not true that happy optimistic satisfied reassured people accomplish much political reform or revolution.
I invite the reader to use lexis nexus, or their favorite publication archives and read climate coverage since 1980. The articles blend moderated warnings if we dont act with positive predictions of how political pressure and new technologies are suceeding. Read them. Take whatever publication you want. In public facing climate reporting we have 45 years of false optimism with predictions underperforming reality. One ehrilich and everyone permanently says "what, me wory?".
But hope or alarm, the importance is action. End fossil burning, end land clearing, end wealth and food hoarding, redistribute materials to the poor and land back to tradtional stewards and nature back grasslands and valleys and wetlands.
posted by No Climate - No Food, No Food - No Future. at 7:07 AM on January 12 [8 favorites]
Its not true that happy optimistic satisfied reassured people accomplish much political reform or revolution.
I invite the reader to use lexis nexus, or their favorite publication archives and read climate coverage since 1980. The articles blend moderated warnings if we dont act with positive predictions of how political pressure and new technologies are suceeding. Read them. Take whatever publication you want. In public facing climate reporting we have 45 years of false optimism with predictions underperforming reality. One ehrilich and everyone permanently says "what, me wory?".
But hope or alarm, the importance is action. End fossil burning, end land clearing, end wealth and food hoarding, redistribute materials to the poor and land back to tradtional stewards and nature back grasslands and valleys and wetlands.
posted by No Climate - No Food, No Food - No Future. at 7:07 AM on January 12 [8 favorites]
eiras: Your comment brought me up short, k3ninho. I interpreted you as saying that a life lived in some kind of precarity makes other fears more salient, makes us chase them, somehow. Is that what you meant?
It's a caveat to an edge case. Mostly, we're living in the easiest-to-survive times in human history, mostly the people doom-scrolling are enployed and fed and in safe warm homes. Mostly we might find ways to learn about new developments in local and world events that don't scare us to keep us watching. (That's a problem seen in 24-hour cable news during a breaking story, that repeating the headlines and showing how the story developed, triggers that anxious and traumatic response. When nothing important is happening, you still need to have eyeballs for advertisers, so keeping people watching because they're scared to turn away is a business model. (Also a business model: continuing a spectacle of half-truth.) When you're pushed to fear and panic, that lizard-brain structure of your mind doesn't make good, reasoned decisions.)
I believe we can live without fear and with time to assess and respond to the world we're in. Maybe my life has less agency in the world, but I believe my community and our civilization can make a good world with collective action.
But I accept that's not everybody, so I caveated both sides of the coin: if you're unhoused, or working fearfully under a despot, or living fearfully in a household where there's outbreaks of violence, you may avoid doom-scrolling entirely as you scrabble to survive these bigger problems. On the other side of the coin, I'm wrong and the doom-scrolling is a blessed escape from the rest of the terror.
Nevertheless I believe we can find ways to live so we're not always in fear.
posted by k3ninho at 7:23 AM on January 12 [2 favorites]
It's a caveat to an edge case. Mostly, we're living in the easiest-to-survive times in human history, mostly the people doom-scrolling are enployed and fed and in safe warm homes. Mostly we might find ways to learn about new developments in local and world events that don't scare us to keep us watching. (That's a problem seen in 24-hour cable news during a breaking story, that repeating the headlines and showing how the story developed, triggers that anxious and traumatic response. When nothing important is happening, you still need to have eyeballs for advertisers, so keeping people watching because they're scared to turn away is a business model. (Also a business model: continuing a spectacle of half-truth.) When you're pushed to fear and panic, that lizard-brain structure of your mind doesn't make good, reasoned decisions.)
I believe we can live without fear and with time to assess and respond to the world we're in. Maybe my life has less agency in the world, but I believe my community and our civilization can make a good world with collective action.
But I accept that's not everybody, so I caveated both sides of the coin: if you're unhoused, or working fearfully under a despot, or living fearfully in a household where there's outbreaks of violence, you may avoid doom-scrolling entirely as you scrabble to survive these bigger problems. On the other side of the coin, I'm wrong and the doom-scrolling is a blessed escape from the rest of the terror.
Nevertheless I believe we can find ways to live so we're not always in fear.
posted by k3ninho at 7:23 AM on January 12 [2 favorites]
Unfortunately for my brain, doomscrolling COVID news in January 2020 prepared me pretty well for the ensuing years. I bought a months' supply of toilet paper as soon as I saw the runs on it in Hong Kong, etc.
Of course, hardly any of the doom-prophets online were dooming about COVID then. It was actual scientists in the relevant fields who were worried. The thing about the people who really push dooming online is that they usually have no special expertise; they're just professional doomers.
posted by BungaDunga at 7:28 AM on January 12 [5 favorites]
Of course, hardly any of the doom-prophets online were dooming about COVID then. It was actual scientists in the relevant fields who were worried. The thing about the people who really push dooming online is that they usually have no special expertise; they're just professional doomers.
posted by BungaDunga at 7:28 AM on January 12 [5 favorites]
The most radical act is to step back and ask: What if the world isn’t ending, but changing? What if our role isn’t to be perpetual witnesses to doom, but active participants in whatever comes next?Speech a sci fi villain gives at the beginning of the story.
Noteworthy how this piece has no examples. You don't need to be shown the people selfishly trying to make you feel bad by talking about bad things for their own career benefit. You already know they're there. And looking directly at them might invite us to connect their mad apocalyptic ravings to a specific political perspective, which we might have to weigh against our own.
Despite the systemic appearance of the numbered lists, the gist here is that the problem with bad things is they make you feel bad. That fascists control our society and that it's bowing and creaking under its own weight isn't a problem in itself, whether or not it's true. I mean, if we are living through the apocalypse, it's not like we could do anything about it, so it stands to reason that the best thing for everyone's mental health is to believe that we're simply witnessing a great becoming.
posted by jy4m at 7:32 AM on January 12 [5 favorites]
I ignored the "industrial complex" aspect, kittens, but yeah that's basically promoting the right-wing "climate conspiracy" bullshit.
I do think exaggerations by well-meaning scientists happen, with two examples being nuclear winter, and AMOC collapse freezing Europe. As a rule, scientists' exaggerations do legitimately represent the precautionary principle though, we just spend too much discussion on problems that seem fast, while we ignore the creeping problems listed as planetary boundaries.
Another aspect, Joseph Tainter observes that most Roman subjects benefitted from the collapse of the Roman empire. We should expect similarly that worldwide most humans benefit from the collapse of the US empire too. Yes, trade could share food more equitably, and UN WFP help enormously, but the underlying model remains exploitation through trade. Ireland benefitted economically from trade, but the Irish potato famine was caused by exporting food to England. We've the slow motion flavor now where the Amazon gets destroyed to raise feed for cattle in the US, China, etc, but this should slowly become more immediate, with corrupt nations exporting food needed by their people to the US, China, etc.
posted by jeffburdges at 7:34 AM on January 12 [2 favorites]
I do think exaggerations by well-meaning scientists happen, with two examples being nuclear winter, and AMOC collapse freezing Europe. As a rule, scientists' exaggerations do legitimately represent the precautionary principle though, we just spend too much discussion on problems that seem fast, while we ignore the creeping problems listed as planetary boundaries.
Another aspect, Joseph Tainter observes that most Roman subjects benefitted from the collapse of the Roman empire. We should expect similarly that worldwide most humans benefit from the collapse of the US empire too. Yes, trade could share food more equitably, and UN WFP help enormously, but the underlying model remains exploitation through trade. Ireland benefitted economically from trade, but the Irish potato famine was caused by exporting food to England. We've the slow motion flavor now where the Amazon gets destroyed to raise feed for cattle in the US, China, etc, but this should slowly become more immediate, with corrupt nations exporting food needed by their people to the US, China, etc.
posted by jeffburdges at 7:34 AM on January 12 [2 favorites]
imho there's a difference between informing yourself about the bad things vs stewing in other people's anxiety and horror about the bad things. the former can be useful, and in fact being able to put an intellectual structure around the bad things can help turn all-encompassing anxieties into specific ones, which can be helpful in multiple ways.
The latter just floods your limbic system with Bad Chemicals and makes you feel bad to no benefit.
posted by BungaDunga at 7:35 AM on January 12 [9 favorites]
The latter just floods your limbic system with Bad Chemicals and makes you feel bad to no benefit.
posted by BungaDunga at 7:35 AM on January 12 [9 favorites]
's something that started happening to me. No one gives themselves an anxiety disorder
Fair enough. It was a turn of phrase, not an allocation of blame.
posted by pipeski at
Cool, it just implied to me like if you told yourself to worry less as a kid you wouldn't be "headed toward" an anxiety disorder, when many can't really control worrying, it's not a conscious decision. Especially as a kid.
posted by tiny frying pan at 7:41 AM on January 12 [2 favorites]
Fair enough. It was a turn of phrase, not an allocation of blame.
posted by pipeski at
Cool, it just implied to me like if you told yourself to worry less as a kid you wouldn't be "headed toward" an anxiety disorder, when many can't really control worrying, it's not a conscious decision. Especially as a kid.
posted by tiny frying pan at 7:41 AM on January 12 [2 favorites]
Also we're all still apes! We're not supposed to know about the suffering of the entire world. That doesn't mean turn a blind eye but of course we find it overwhelming.
posted by tiny frying pan at 7:43 AM on January 12 [12 favorites]
posted by tiny frying pan at 7:43 AM on January 12 [12 favorites]
Some 40% of americans can't pay the Fed survey's hypothetical $400 car repair or medical bill. Its an excersie for the reader to find any car repair or medical bill that small. That's what passes for "the economy is good, quit complaining". LA just needs to keep it's chin up and not be affeaid of the flames. Some Yoga perhaps. Don't let that cortisol dominate your life.
Mandatory optimism is unhealthy, maladaptive and strategy for public control, like performative patritism and unquestioning loyalty to deities and leaders. The rowers in the galley need to focus on rowing and don't worry about the navel battle.
"Mostly, we're living in the easiest-to-survive times in human history". There are more poor people now than there were total people 100 years ago. Notice how the poor and those starving, and those enslaved don't count. Notice women losing body autonomy in US don't count. Or the number of people living in authoritarean regimes.
Maybe this mandatory optimism is just how somepeople deal with their own panic, and their demand to be left alone unresponsibile for what is happening around them.
If doomscrolling is the economy of the pessimists, how much larger is the economy of distraction, of all the sports, music, tv and and the industry of unproductive celebration of the positive in a sinking ship. No number of Covid dead, or refugees or burning homes will pierce that bubble, because irs not built on ignorance of reality, but its cultivated censorship.
posted by No Climate - No Food, No Food - No Future. at 7:45 AM on January 12 [11 favorites]
Mandatory optimism is unhealthy, maladaptive and strategy for public control, like performative patritism and unquestioning loyalty to deities and leaders. The rowers in the galley need to focus on rowing and don't worry about the navel battle.
"Mostly, we're living in the easiest-to-survive times in human history". There are more poor people now than there were total people 100 years ago. Notice how the poor and those starving, and those enslaved don't count. Notice women losing body autonomy in US don't count. Or the number of people living in authoritarean regimes.
Maybe this mandatory optimism is just how somepeople deal with their own panic, and their demand to be left alone unresponsibile for what is happening around them.
If doomscrolling is the economy of the pessimists, how much larger is the economy of distraction, of all the sports, music, tv and and the industry of unproductive celebration of the positive in a sinking ship. No number of Covid dead, or refugees or burning homes will pierce that bubble, because irs not built on ignorance of reality, but its cultivated censorship.
posted by No Climate - No Food, No Food - No Future. at 7:45 AM on January 12 [11 favorites]
I mean, at some point we're going to have to recon with the fact that specific bad things happening doesn't mean that EVERY bad thing is happening or that only bad things are happening.
Quite frankly, a lot of what I see online places remind me of growing up in a church where we were frequently told the ends times were RIGHT NOW. Not in the same "yeah, but you're demonstrably wrong" way, but in the same way people seem to be getting hooked on living in a state of constant emotional arousal and feeding that by looking at everything negative in the world. And like, try talking to some folks who left those environments sometime about how that worked out for them .
I look through my comments and their responses on Metafilter from 2020-2022 and I see an interesting pattern: every time I would say something that wasn't pessimistic enough, someone else would tell me how I just couldn't possibly know how bad it was, or how bad getting COVID would be. The punch line is that I'm coming up on my 5th anniversary of getting Long COVID and at the time my body was so starved for energy that I wasn't forming long term memories, like at all. And I know that there are people who had it plenty worse because the other place I was spending the little bit of online social time I was able to manage was a Long COVID support group.
Or like, there's a person a follow on Mastodon who posts statistics and studies about COVID. He also, reasonably, leans towards the continued caution side of things, masking in public, not going to huge indoor events during, checking the COVID risk in your area when making plans, etc. He's recently been complained that a lot of his former sources have stopped being reliable because they won't report on things without making them seem like an escalation in how bad things are, even when they're just like bog standard "hospitals are seeing an increase in patients with respiratory infections this winter vs. what numbers where this summer".
And it's tricky, right, because believe me, I GET that things are bad. I'm chronically ill, broke, the bills are too damn high, and scared for my childrens' safety. But also, I've got to go on living life. I can speak from experience when I say that having a perpetually freaked out parent isn't going to help out my kids. There's a line between staying informed and making decisions based on the negative facts and ONLY seeking out the negative facts because it feeds into my biases.
Having to choose between worrying about the future and enjoying things about the present is a false choice. And, yeah sometimes we all need to spend some time worrying and planning for negative outcomes, but other times we need to spend some time going out to brunch with friends. Those impulses only become bad when we let them over-ride other aspects of our lives. Which is what the article is talking about. Not that all worry is bad, or that everything is great, just that there's a whole system of people getting something off of keeping others hooked on their negative emotions.
posted by Gygesringtone at 8:02 AM on January 12 [18 favorites]
Quite frankly, a lot of what I see online places remind me of growing up in a church where we were frequently told the ends times were RIGHT NOW. Not in the same "yeah, but you're demonstrably wrong" way, but in the same way people seem to be getting hooked on living in a state of constant emotional arousal and feeding that by looking at everything negative in the world. And like, try talking to some folks who left those environments sometime about how that worked out for them .
I look through my comments and their responses on Metafilter from 2020-2022 and I see an interesting pattern: every time I would say something that wasn't pessimistic enough, someone else would tell me how I just couldn't possibly know how bad it was, or how bad getting COVID would be. The punch line is that I'm coming up on my 5th anniversary of getting Long COVID and at the time my body was so starved for energy that I wasn't forming long term memories, like at all. And I know that there are people who had it plenty worse because the other place I was spending the little bit of online social time I was able to manage was a Long COVID support group.
Or like, there's a person a follow on Mastodon who posts statistics and studies about COVID. He also, reasonably, leans towards the continued caution side of things, masking in public, not going to huge indoor events during, checking the COVID risk in your area when making plans, etc. He's recently been complained that a lot of his former sources have stopped being reliable because they won't report on things without making them seem like an escalation in how bad things are, even when they're just like bog standard "hospitals are seeing an increase in patients with respiratory infections this winter vs. what numbers where this summer".
And it's tricky, right, because believe me, I GET that things are bad. I'm chronically ill, broke, the bills are too damn high, and scared for my childrens' safety. But also, I've got to go on living life. I can speak from experience when I say that having a perpetually freaked out parent isn't going to help out my kids. There's a line between staying informed and making decisions based on the negative facts and ONLY seeking out the negative facts because it feeds into my biases.
Having to choose between worrying about the future and enjoying things about the present is a false choice. And, yeah sometimes we all need to spend some time worrying and planning for negative outcomes, but other times we need to spend some time going out to brunch with friends. Those impulses only become bad when we let them over-ride other aspects of our lives. Which is what the article is talking about. Not that all worry is bad, or that everything is great, just that there's a whole system of people getting something off of keeping others hooked on their negative emotions.
posted by Gygesringtone at 8:02 AM on January 12 [18 favorites]
We really were living in the easiest-to-survive times in human history, in the sense that We really did hunger decreased until 2012, stayed flat just under 8% until 2018, and now increases 0.5% per year.. It's over now because of fossil fuels, overconsumption, overpopulation, etc, but the decline takes tiem too.
New analysis exposes concerning outlook for global food systems: 'Not just an abstract concept'
posted by jeffburdges at 8:08 AM on January 12 [4 favorites]
New analysis exposes concerning outlook for global food systems: 'Not just an abstract concept'
posted by jeffburdges at 8:08 AM on January 12 [4 favorites]
AMOC collapse freezing Europe
Are there other sources to read about AMOC collapse not freezing Europe? I thought that was the entire point of the 'cold blob'?
posted by mittens at 8:21 AM on January 12 [1 favorite]
Are there other sources to read about AMOC collapse not freezing Europe? I thought that was the entire point of the 'cold blob'?
posted by mittens at 8:21 AM on January 12 [1 favorite]
Right-wing media has always been about our imminent demise. In keeping with libertarian inclinations it leans towards immediate threats to you and your family rather than existential threats to entire world (or at least to civilization). Using a steady feed of fear (of threats) and anger (at those who permit the threats) is essential to roping people in and keeping them addicted to the messages you provide.
Fox News may have capitalized on it better than anyone in history, thanks in part to the technology and legislation of the '80s that enabled it, but the core mechanic of manipulation through fear and anger was essential to the Satanic Panic of the early 90s, Christian hostility to Rock & Roll in the 60s, Jazz and modernism generally in the 1920s, minorities and immigrants at all times, and so on.
Bad news sells better, it always has. This is true across the partisan spectrum. Exceptions are so rare as to be memorable: The end of WW II, Apollo 11 landing on the moon, and, um... I'm sure I'll think of something but don't wait up, ok?
If left-leaning journalists are dependent on direct payment from their audience in order to continue working, that is in large part due to the continued retreat from major media and social media turning ever more to the right. The fact that all journos need to be paid to continue doing their jobs is somewhat obfuscated when the ones on the right are funded by well-heeled third parties (both from wealthy backers who benefit from the messages and from advertising) and the ones on the left can only get funding directly from their audience. It's somewhat ironic that this leads to right-wing journos working semi-anonymously in collectives and left-wing journos working independently and selling through self-promotion, but that's where we're at now.
posted by at by at 8:27 AM on January 12 [4 favorites]
Fox News may have capitalized on it better than anyone in history, thanks in part to the technology and legislation of the '80s that enabled it, but the core mechanic of manipulation through fear and anger was essential to the Satanic Panic of the early 90s, Christian hostility to Rock & Roll in the 60s, Jazz and modernism generally in the 1920s, minorities and immigrants at all times, and so on.
Bad news sells better, it always has. This is true across the partisan spectrum. Exceptions are so rare as to be memorable: The end of WW II, Apollo 11 landing on the moon, and, um... I'm sure I'll think of something but don't wait up, ok?
If left-leaning journalists are dependent on direct payment from their audience in order to continue working, that is in large part due to the continued retreat from major media and social media turning ever more to the right. The fact that all journos need to be paid to continue doing their jobs is somewhat obfuscated when the ones on the right are funded by well-heeled third parties (both from wealthy backers who benefit from the messages and from advertising) and the ones on the left can only get funding directly from their audience. It's somewhat ironic that this leads to right-wing journos working semi-anonymously in collectives and left-wing journos working independently and selling through self-promotion, but that's where we're at now.
posted by at by at 8:27 AM on January 12 [4 favorites]
the thing about END TIMES RIGHT NOW is, who am I to argue
If it takes a week, a year, a lifetime
What is 80 years in the big picture, what is 10,000 years. Since people had words and religion I can get RIGHT NOW.
posted by ginger.beef at 8:29 AM on January 12 [1 favorite]
If it takes a week, a year, a lifetime
What is 80 years in the big picture, what is 10,000 years. Since people had words and religion I can get RIGHT NOW.
posted by ginger.beef at 8:29 AM on January 12 [1 favorite]
I'm a bit surprised that emerging consensus here seems to disagree with the premise.
Westenberg takes pains to separate real concerns from those that are in service to a dark pattern of monetizing anxiety.
If you are genuinely concerned about the climate, there's a difference between "the sky is falling" and "these specific things 'x' we consider 'essential' to our way of life will not be possible, and will likely be replaced by 'y.' "
"The sky is falling" comes from a story where an acorn falls on someone's head. If there aren't any trees around, maybe look into that? :)
It might not be fair to twist this story to this purpose, but defensive 'fear of nuance' really shouldn't supplant nuance itself. Meaning, despite a lot of evidence to the contrary, the general thrust of well-informed writing shouldn't condescend so much to its readership that 'nuance' becomes exclusively the province of conservative grift -- OR nihilistic doomers on the left.
Not an easy needle to thread. Westernberg herself has another article about when crossing that very threshold, about why we need Captain America to punch Hitler again.
posted by mathjus at 8:58 AM on January 12 [11 favorites]
Westenberg takes pains to separate real concerns from those that are in service to a dark pattern of monetizing anxiety.
If you are genuinely concerned about the climate, there's a difference between "the sky is falling" and "these specific things 'x' we consider 'essential' to our way of life will not be possible, and will likely be replaced by 'y.' "
"The sky is falling" comes from a story where an acorn falls on someone's head. If there aren't any trees around, maybe look into that? :)
It might not be fair to twist this story to this purpose, but defensive 'fear of nuance' really shouldn't supplant nuance itself. Meaning, despite a lot of evidence to the contrary, the general thrust of well-informed writing shouldn't condescend so much to its readership that 'nuance' becomes exclusively the province of conservative grift -- OR nihilistic doomers on the left.
Not an easy needle to thread. Westernberg herself has another article about when crossing that very threshold, about why we need Captain America to punch Hitler again.
posted by mathjus at 8:58 AM on January 12 [11 favorites]
I think I'm just really mystified as to what the point of this article is meant to be. It has a real "now, less than ever" vibe, IMO. Things are secretly okay? It's a well-hidden secret then. One weird trick to combat doomerism. I don't see any value in this, I'm sorry.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 9:41 AM on January 12 [1 favorite]
posted by kittens for breakfast at 9:41 AM on January 12 [1 favorite]
I don't have a cite for this, but I recall reading a while ago about the specific kinds of content that are targeted by Chinese internet censors. The claim was that the government does not crack down very hard on complaints, but they do take great pains to suppress anyone who is trying to organize action about those complaints. Like Chinese internet users are allowed to say something like "the mayor is an idiot" or "this policy is hurting my family", but they are not allowed to say "... and therefore we should elect a different mayor" or "... join me to protest this policy - if they don't change it, we're going to do X."
posted by rustcrumb at 9:59 AM on January 12 [5 favorites]
posted by rustcrumb at 9:59 AM on January 12 [5 favorites]
I think I'm just really mystified as to what the point of this article is meant to be.
The point of the article is that there are people who are taking advantage of other people's fears to make money, and that's causing the people who are being taken advantage of real suffering. It's not claiming people don't have a reason to be upset or scared.
It's the parallel to saying being against people selling cancer patients bullshit cures without adding "because cancer isn't real".
posted by Gygesringtone at 10:08 AM on January 12 [11 favorites]
The point of the article is that there are people who are taking advantage of other people's fears to make money, and that's causing the people who are being taken advantage of real suffering. It's not claiming people don't have a reason to be upset or scared.
It's the parallel to saying being against people selling cancer patients bullshit cures without adding "because cancer isn't real".
posted by Gygesringtone at 10:08 AM on January 12 [11 favorites]
Edited and replaced with following
I'm sorry; I'm on steroids right now because of an arthritis issue and it's making me say a lot of things I really mean. I should probably not be in this thread today.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 10:31 AM on January 12 [3 favorites]
I'm sorry; I'm on steroids right now because of an arthritis issue and it's making me say a lot of things I really mean. I should probably not be in this thread today.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 10:31 AM on January 12 [3 favorites]
Sorry, but in my experience as (1) an intersex trans man with a lot of reasonable and specific fears about what is about to come over the next four years, and (2) a college educator, I think there's a good argument that the premise of this article is completely backwards.
Yes, of course, we all are very familiar with the flaws of a for-profit online mediasphere in which outrage is used to generate income: instead of measured news reporting, we get AI-generated clickbait and influencers shouting, "Pick me, click me, like me! I know the things They don't want to tell you, I have the best takes, and I hate what you hate!"
But right now, there are a whole lot of very specific and real issues that I would hope people would be informed about. And what causes me a lot of worry is that the college students at my large midwestern university today are terribly ill-informed about current events. This can't be brushed off by saying that's just what happens when you grow up with social media, distracted and distractible, because it's gotten much, much worse since 2020, and social media were pervasive well before that. So what explains the decline in following the news since then?
Well, I can tell you what my students tell me when I survey them. They say they carefully avoid doomscrolling. As young teens during Covid lockdowns, they were warned all the time by schools and parents and news stories and therapists of the dangers of doomscrolling, which they were told would make them feel helpless and despondent. They were told they should spend their online leisure time connecting with friends, relaxing, and consuming uplifting content--not gloomily scanning all the negative news about Covid deaths and political divisions.
Today's college students take mental health seriously, and acknowledge their struggles with anxiety. That's a good thing--much better than the masking strategies of generations before them. Whether they actually experience more anxiety symptoms than prior generations is possible--lockdowns during the very social and unsettled early teen years was traumatic for many. But I don't believe that the higher levels of autism and ADHD they report indicate that rates of these statuses are growing--I just think the decrease in shame associated with being labeled as having such a status has made people more willing to consider the possibility that these labels should apply to them, and if so, to come out as neurodiverse. So I suspect today's college students are just more open about their struggles with anxiety.
But that's not what's really important here. What is important is that the majority of my college students identify as having anxiety issues, and most of them believe that it is therefore important that they practice selfcare by not doomscrolling. And their understanding of doomscrolling--the one they actually were given by mentors--is "consuming depressing news." The thing is, they find most news stories depressing! So most of my college students today only focus on stories about sports, entertainment, and light distractions. Most of their screentime that is not spent chatting with friends is idiosyncratic and niche, consuming content fed to them by algorithms that have long ago learned they scroll past serious news stories, and instead want to watch an endless stream of TikToks about the NBA or fast-fashion footwear or international snacks.
I've been teaching college courses for 30 years now (woo), and know that there have always been plenty of students who didn't enjoy reading serious news. What's changed is that instead of treating reading those news stories as medicine they really should take even if it tastes nasty, they now treat it as a toxic drug they wisely avoid, though they've been warned it's addictive.
If paying attention to all the bad things taking place and becoming well-informed about them is framed as "doomscrolling," and people spend hours instead distracting themselves by watching other people play through videogames (which, hey, I too do to self-soothe), then, to make a vague, doomy proclamation, the kleptocracy and kakistocracy proceed in their production of dystopia with little impedence. Or, less snarkily, real groups of people suffer specific harms, such as being ripped from their homes and deported, enduring forced detransitions or forced pregnancies, the destructions of their homes by fire or flood, living unhoused, fired from their public service jobs, etc. etc. etc.--all specific harms, the specifics of which I wish the public to be informed about, and to be encouraged to resist.
Urging a populace to try to emulate the ostrich myth, stuffing their heads in the sand, and praising that as healthy doomscrolling-avoidance is the thing that concerns me a lot more concretely and specifically than does a generalized concern about the hypiness and angst of clickbait.
To be clear, I'm not saying that the article under discussion is urging ostriching. It's noting that a mediasphere that generates profit by generating outrage and anxiety is going to produce a society plagued by outrage and anxiety if we don't resist. True enough. But generalized anxiety, while no fun, is way down on my list of social problems I would love to see addressed. And the language of "doomscrolling" is one I believe is now deterring that.
posted by DrMew at 12:01 PM on January 12 [8 favorites]
Yes, of course, we all are very familiar with the flaws of a for-profit online mediasphere in which outrage is used to generate income: instead of measured news reporting, we get AI-generated clickbait and influencers shouting, "Pick me, click me, like me! I know the things They don't want to tell you, I have the best takes, and I hate what you hate!"
But right now, there are a whole lot of very specific and real issues that I would hope people would be informed about. And what causes me a lot of worry is that the college students at my large midwestern university today are terribly ill-informed about current events. This can't be brushed off by saying that's just what happens when you grow up with social media, distracted and distractible, because it's gotten much, much worse since 2020, and social media were pervasive well before that. So what explains the decline in following the news since then?
Well, I can tell you what my students tell me when I survey them. They say they carefully avoid doomscrolling. As young teens during Covid lockdowns, they were warned all the time by schools and parents and news stories and therapists of the dangers of doomscrolling, which they were told would make them feel helpless and despondent. They were told they should spend their online leisure time connecting with friends, relaxing, and consuming uplifting content--not gloomily scanning all the negative news about Covid deaths and political divisions.
Today's college students take mental health seriously, and acknowledge their struggles with anxiety. That's a good thing--much better than the masking strategies of generations before them. Whether they actually experience more anxiety symptoms than prior generations is possible--lockdowns during the very social and unsettled early teen years was traumatic for many. But I don't believe that the higher levels of autism and ADHD they report indicate that rates of these statuses are growing--I just think the decrease in shame associated with being labeled as having such a status has made people more willing to consider the possibility that these labels should apply to them, and if so, to come out as neurodiverse. So I suspect today's college students are just more open about their struggles with anxiety.
But that's not what's really important here. What is important is that the majority of my college students identify as having anxiety issues, and most of them believe that it is therefore important that they practice selfcare by not doomscrolling. And their understanding of doomscrolling--the one they actually were given by mentors--is "consuming depressing news." The thing is, they find most news stories depressing! So most of my college students today only focus on stories about sports, entertainment, and light distractions. Most of their screentime that is not spent chatting with friends is idiosyncratic and niche, consuming content fed to them by algorithms that have long ago learned they scroll past serious news stories, and instead want to watch an endless stream of TikToks about the NBA or fast-fashion footwear or international snacks.
I've been teaching college courses for 30 years now (woo), and know that there have always been plenty of students who didn't enjoy reading serious news. What's changed is that instead of treating reading those news stories as medicine they really should take even if it tastes nasty, they now treat it as a toxic drug they wisely avoid, though they've been warned it's addictive.
If paying attention to all the bad things taking place and becoming well-informed about them is framed as "doomscrolling," and people spend hours instead distracting themselves by watching other people play through videogames (which, hey, I too do to self-soothe), then, to make a vague, doomy proclamation, the kleptocracy and kakistocracy proceed in their production of dystopia with little impedence. Or, less snarkily, real groups of people suffer specific harms, such as being ripped from their homes and deported, enduring forced detransitions or forced pregnancies, the destructions of their homes by fire or flood, living unhoused, fired from their public service jobs, etc. etc. etc.--all specific harms, the specifics of which I wish the public to be informed about, and to be encouraged to resist.
Urging a populace to try to emulate the ostrich myth, stuffing their heads in the sand, and praising that as healthy doomscrolling-avoidance is the thing that concerns me a lot more concretely and specifically than does a generalized concern about the hypiness and angst of clickbait.
To be clear, I'm not saying that the article under discussion is urging ostriching. It's noting that a mediasphere that generates profit by generating outrage and anxiety is going to produce a society plagued by outrage and anxiety if we don't resist. True enough. But generalized anxiety, while no fun, is way down on my list of social problems I would love to see addressed. And the language of "doomscrolling" is one I believe is now deterring that.
posted by DrMew at 12:01 PM on January 12 [8 favorites]
Mod note: One deleted. Poster’s request.>
posted by travelingthyme (staff) at 12:02 PM on January 12 [2 favorites]
posted by travelingthyme (staff) at 12:02 PM on January 12 [2 favorites]
At least in my mind, AMOC collapse freezing Europe was always presented as speculative, mittens, based upon how long AMOC collpase took vs warming, and usually "freezing" sounded ambiguous. We've noticed more AMOC shutters lately, and experenced some surpise cold spells in Europe, so folks were becoming more worried, but afaik nothing really changed yet.
I linked arguements that the overall warming trend should outweigh any cooling from AMOC collapse, but this does not rule out cold snaps in the winter, so maybe no wonderful tropical fruit up there.
mathjus> Westenberg takes pains to separate real concerns from those that are in service to a dark pattern of monetizing anxiety.
Actually quite the opposite as explained by many of us upthread:
Westenberg's line "a lot of their concerns are valid" intentionally waves away any nuanced dicussion of validity, the precautionary principle, political action, etc.
There are no climate doomers in the average persons' "doom scrolling", mostly people scroll (1) political doom ala trump, (2) social doom about religion, gender, demographics, etc, (3) some fires, floods, etc, but which rarely even mention climate change, and (4) some of the distraction material ala AGI.
An "Industrial Complex" necessarily means some coalition of dissimilar actors, not just a few influencers. We know the news media and social media all profit from doom scrolling, but Westenberg never mentions them except when citing the much broader negative words source. At least to me, this suggests Westenberg wants the "Industrial Complex" to include climate scientists, but without saying so, ala the right-wing "climate scam" bullshit.
Also, there are zero examples of climate doomers given by this article or this thread:
- Eliot Jacobson? I do not see any linked to finacially support him on his site. I've never watched his youtube videos, but clicking one open up immediately without login, so very unmonitized.
- Roger Hallam? Activist who get themselves arrested cannot be doomers, like they're obviously doing something hopeful. Also monitizing never includes soliciting donations for legal expenses.
- UN Secretary-General António Guterres? Afaik all his doomer-ish remarks were expressing legitimate concerns about the global south, who experence more effects already.
- Jem Bendell? I've never followed him really, but at least he has subscribe links, so warmer, but really doesn't feel that negative or pushy.
There maybe prepper influencers & gurus who earn money off this somehow, but never really noticed even these. If they were making money then you'd think algorithms would've showed them to me. lol
Yes, there are many people who express stress online because they believe in excessively short timeframes. I've no idea where those ideas come from, but maybe those people just make the standard scale mistake, exactly like why people believe in trade between planets. At least in my experence, you simply correct them by quoting scientific articles which confirm eventual doom, but actually give a timeline.
posted by jeffburdges at 12:51 PM on January 12 [3 favorites]
I linked arguements that the overall warming trend should outweigh any cooling from AMOC collapse, but this does not rule out cold snaps in the winter, so maybe no wonderful tropical fruit up there.
mathjus> Westenberg takes pains to separate real concerns from those that are in service to a dark pattern of monetizing anxiety.
Actually quite the opposite as explained by many of us upthread:
Westenberg's line "a lot of their concerns are valid" intentionally waves away any nuanced dicussion of validity, the precautionary principle, political action, etc.
There are no climate doomers in the average persons' "doom scrolling", mostly people scroll (1) political doom ala trump, (2) social doom about religion, gender, demographics, etc, (3) some fires, floods, etc, but which rarely even mention climate change, and (4) some of the distraction material ala AGI.
An "Industrial Complex" necessarily means some coalition of dissimilar actors, not just a few influencers. We know the news media and social media all profit from doom scrolling, but Westenberg never mentions them except when citing the much broader negative words source. At least to me, this suggests Westenberg wants the "Industrial Complex" to include climate scientists, but without saying so, ala the right-wing "climate scam" bullshit.
Also, there are zero examples of climate doomers given by this article or this thread:
- Eliot Jacobson? I do not see any linked to finacially support him on his site. I've never watched his youtube videos, but clicking one open up immediately without login, so very unmonitized.
- Roger Hallam? Activist who get themselves arrested cannot be doomers, like they're obviously doing something hopeful. Also monitizing never includes soliciting donations for legal expenses.
- UN Secretary-General António Guterres? Afaik all his doomer-ish remarks were expressing legitimate concerns about the global south, who experence more effects already.
- Jem Bendell? I've never followed him really, but at least he has subscribe links, so warmer, but really doesn't feel that negative or pushy.
There maybe prepper influencers & gurus who earn money off this somehow, but never really noticed even these. If they were making money then you'd think algorithms would've showed them to me. lol
Yes, there are many people who express stress online because they believe in excessively short timeframes. I've no idea where those ideas come from, but maybe those people just make the standard scale mistake, exactly like why people believe in trade between planets. At least in my experence, you simply correct them by quoting scientific articles which confirm eventual doom, but actually give a timeline.
posted by jeffburdges at 12:51 PM on January 12 [3 favorites]
Article doesn't offer evidence that this phenomonen is new, growing, of an important size compared to the rest of media and while we all assume its harmful, article offers little evidence.
So lets reverse this. I'll bet doomscrollers are more likely to be aware of prepared for some of the effects of a nuclear war, since we have a ground war in eastern europe between russia/ north korea w chinese and iranian military assistance vs Ukraine and non-ukrainain nato volunteer forces with nato military assistance. That war has inclided attacks on nuclear reactors, attacks on both capitals, attacks on critical energy infrastructure and occupied terratory in both principal states. Wanna bet at least some doom scrollers have gas masks, geiger counters and air filters? How about the "things have never been so peaceful" Daniel Pinkertons?
We are in the midst of a Covid pandemic and the begining of a bird flu pandemic. I'll bet the doomscrollers have masks and are avoiding crowds and raw milk and sick birds. How about the bright-siders?
El niño ended in april/may, and yet the year ended warmer, not cooler, the land carbon sinks stopped net absorption of CO2 and the nearterm average rate of gobal warming is now double that of the last decade. Food prices are up, and so is mass extinction. I'll bet some doomscrollers have more than 3days of food in their pantry, and some seeds and guns and tools to boot. How about the techno-optimists with their fusion and negative emissions dreams?
Not all responses to bad news are productive, and not all people who take seriously the worlds terrible trajectory take positive action. But the idea that subscription service bad-news feeds is a problem worth writing an article about is obscene.
How many ethnic cleansings and genocides have to be happening at the same time for the author to admit that "just tune it out and get on with your life" is "this way for the gas ladies and gentlemen".
posted by No Climate - No Food, No Food - No Future. at 6:05 PM on January 12 [3 favorites]
So lets reverse this. I'll bet doomscrollers are more likely to be aware of prepared for some of the effects of a nuclear war, since we have a ground war in eastern europe between russia/ north korea w chinese and iranian military assistance vs Ukraine and non-ukrainain nato volunteer forces with nato military assistance. That war has inclided attacks on nuclear reactors, attacks on both capitals, attacks on critical energy infrastructure and occupied terratory in both principal states. Wanna bet at least some doom scrollers have gas masks, geiger counters and air filters? How about the "things have never been so peaceful" Daniel Pinkertons?
We are in the midst of a Covid pandemic and the begining of a bird flu pandemic. I'll bet the doomscrollers have masks and are avoiding crowds and raw milk and sick birds. How about the bright-siders?
El niño ended in april/may, and yet the year ended warmer, not cooler, the land carbon sinks stopped net absorption of CO2 and the nearterm average rate of gobal warming is now double that of the last decade. Food prices are up, and so is mass extinction. I'll bet some doomscrollers have more than 3days of food in their pantry, and some seeds and guns and tools to boot. How about the techno-optimists with their fusion and negative emissions dreams?
Not all responses to bad news are productive, and not all people who take seriously the worlds terrible trajectory take positive action. But the idea that subscription service bad-news feeds is a problem worth writing an article about is obscene.
How many ethnic cleansings and genocides have to be happening at the same time for the author to admit that "just tune it out and get on with your life" is "this way for the gas ladies and gentlemen".
posted by No Climate - No Food, No Food - No Future. at 6:05 PM on January 12 [3 favorites]
Also, Kudos to Jeff Bridges for linking Guttieres. His speeches are factually based, calm and reasonable and people should listen to them.
posted by No Climate - No Food, No Food - No Future. at 6:10 PM on January 12 [2 favorites]
posted by No Climate - No Food, No Food - No Future. at 6:10 PM on January 12 [2 favorites]
How about the bright-siders?
well I bought pants for my cat you see
posted by ginger.beef at 6:56 PM on January 12 [1 favorite]
well I bought pants for my cat you see
posted by ginger.beef at 6:56 PM on January 12 [1 favorite]
Thwaites glacier has started breaking free of it's last pinning point
posted by jeffburdges at 3:30 PM on January 13 [1 favorite]
posted by jeffburdges at 3:30 PM on January 13 [1 favorite]
From the article:
The DIC doesn’t just make us needlessly anxious. It dilutes our ability to respond to genuine threats. When everything is an emergency, nothing is.
To me, this is the key issue. There are plenty of things we should be very concerned about, but living in an artificially-heightened fear state inhibits most people's ability to analyze, plan, and actually take concrete, effective action. That serves "them," not us.
posted by rpfields at 7:28 PM on January 13 [5 favorites]
The DIC doesn’t just make us needlessly anxious. It dilutes our ability to respond to genuine threats. When everything is an emergency, nothing is.
To me, this is the key issue. There are plenty of things we should be very concerned about, but living in an artificially-heightened fear state inhibits most people's ability to analyze, plan, and actually take concrete, effective action. That serves "them," not us.
posted by rpfields at 7:28 PM on January 13 [5 favorites]
Thwaites glacier has started breaking free of it's last pinning point
Holy shit.
If Thwaites Glacier was to collapse entirely, global sea levels would increase by 65 cm (25 in)
In comparison, the average rate of sea-level rise over the past thirty years has been 3.4mm/0.13 inches per year.
posted by rory at 2:08 AM on January 15 [1 favorite]
Holy shit.
If Thwaites Glacier was to collapse entirely, global sea levels would increase by 65 cm (25 in)
In comparison, the average rate of sea-level rise over the past thirty years has been 3.4mm/0.13 inches per year.
posted by rory at 2:08 AM on January 15 [1 favorite]
Why does it say "if?" It will collapse entirely.
posted by tiny frying pan at 8:15 PM on January 15 [3 favorites]
posted by tiny frying pan at 8:15 PM on January 15 [3 favorites]
I'm all ears for what makes people take action. But i think the defaut assumption that anxiety, fear, anger, or being informed about negative events and trends is inhibitory, well, that asumption needs evidence. Because the happy, content, hopeful and ignorant folks are making the problem worse and obstructing the legal and economic changes thst need to happen. Amygdala-neo-phrenology aside, what is the evidence that our anxiety is "needless". Maybe if less folks were going quiet into that goodnight, we wouldn't be in such a bad place.
Climate famine is coming, nuclear accidents continue and the risk of nuclear war is real but hard to estimate. The vulnerabilities of democracies are being exploited internally and externally, and we live in a multi-agent surveilance state at the disposal of dictators, demogogues, neofeudal tech ceos and alorythmic marketing and propaganda that would make the stasi blush. We have multiple genocides occuring, and a pandemic of denial coupled to a real pandemic and the plausible risk of another.
The optimists have a lot of blood on their hands, and their insistance that its the people paying attention to the problems who are the obstacle is pathological, it might be the moral equivalent of accessory to evil.... So, scroll or no, but you must act. Being a bystander (worried or dellusionally hopefull) is choosing to make things worse. Business as usual is a murder-suicide pact with earth's ecosystems. You must act.
posted by No Climate - No Food, No Food - No Future. at 8:37 PM on January 15 [2 favorites]
Climate famine is coming, nuclear accidents continue and the risk of nuclear war is real but hard to estimate. The vulnerabilities of democracies are being exploited internally and externally, and we live in a multi-agent surveilance state at the disposal of dictators, demogogues, neofeudal tech ceos and alorythmic marketing and propaganda that would make the stasi blush. We have multiple genocides occuring, and a pandemic of denial coupled to a real pandemic and the plausible risk of another.
The optimists have a lot of blood on their hands, and their insistance that its the people paying attention to the problems who are the obstacle is pathological, it might be the moral equivalent of accessory to evil.... So, scroll or no, but you must act. Being a bystander (worried or dellusionally hopefull) is choosing to make things worse. Business as usual is a murder-suicide pact with earth's ecosystems. You must act.
posted by No Climate - No Food, No Food - No Future. at 8:37 PM on January 15 [2 favorites]
Afaik Thwaites still needs decades to slide in, but yeah nobody expect the shelf breaks free so soon.
Yes, sea level rise averaged 3.4 mm/year over the last 30 years, but it averaged 3.6 mm/year over the last 10 years, and shall accelerate further. I'm unsure if this Thwaites news even change this acceleration, but the IPCC only works with older results so many statements from them look outdated.
posted by jeffburdges at 9:27 PM on January 15 [2 favorites]
Yes, sea level rise averaged 3.4 mm/year over the last 30 years, but it averaged 3.6 mm/year over the last 10 years, and shall accelerate further. I'm unsure if this Thwaites news even change this acceleration, but the IPCC only works with older results so many statements from them look outdated.
posted by jeffburdges at 9:27 PM on January 15 [2 favorites]
I think many informed people expected it to break free soon, but even if not, the time frame on which it was going to break free was already far too short, and we knew that.
I'm sick of these predictions saying "If." Everything climate change is When.
posted by tiny frying pan at 4:53 AM on January 16 [1 favorite]
I'm sick of these predictions saying "If." Everything climate change is When.
posted by tiny frying pan at 4:53 AM on January 16 [1 favorite]
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I'm sure people are making money from this, but this feels .. tone deaf? Disingenuous? Not sure what it is
posted by mayoarchitect at 3:11 AM on January 12 [11 favorites]