Apokálypsis now
January 12, 2025 2:06 PM Subscribe
Peter Thiel wrote an op-ed for the Financial Times: A time for truth and reconciliation; Gizmodo and The Daily Beast respond. Even the Daily Mail is baffled.
The question this poses to me is: does Thiel know the conspiracies of which he speaks, and is staking out a "Truth and Reconciliation" avenue to expose them, perhaps in competition with other Mar-a-Lago frequent visitors who might want to be doing it with midnight door-breakdowns and criminal trials in friendly jurisdictions?
That would be, frankly, very interesting.
However, if the billionaire controlling shareholder of Palantir and patron/mentor of VP-elect JD Vance is just speculating about suspected conspiracies in the pages of the friggin' FT that is pretty disturbing on all three fronts. Shouldn't Palantir know? Why would Vance not know about and stop this? What does the FT think it's doing?
(It's always seemed to me that most conspiracies against the public interest are perfectly well known. They tend to persist despite this because it is risky to take on the establishment, and the reward for doing so, even successfully, is always uncertain and usually modest at best.)
posted by MattD at 2:27 PM on January 12 [16 favorites]
That would be, frankly, very interesting.
However, if the billionaire controlling shareholder of Palantir and patron/mentor of VP-elect JD Vance is just speculating about suspected conspiracies in the pages of the friggin' FT that is pretty disturbing on all three fronts. Shouldn't Palantir know? Why would Vance not know about and stop this? What does the FT think it's doing?
(It's always seemed to me that most conspiracies against the public interest are perfectly well known. They tend to persist despite this because it is risky to take on the establishment, and the reward for doing so, even successfully, is always uncertain and usually modest at best.)
posted by MattD at 2:27 PM on January 12 [16 favorites]
This is a trial balloon. See what Russia does with Medvedev: trial crazy ideas, see how much push back they get, then move them towards center.
posted by constraint at 2:27 PM on January 12 [12 favorites]
posted by constraint at 2:27 PM on January 12 [12 favorites]
Our tech billionaires are the current manifestation of the "this is your brain on drugs" egg-in-a-pan... high on their own supply.
posted by kokaku at 2:33 PM on January 12 [16 favorites]
posted by kokaku at 2:33 PM on January 12 [16 favorites]
Is Peter Thiel OK?
I sure hope not.
posted by 1adam12 at 2:25 PM on January 12
Uh, have you seen him recently? He’s like a humanoid version of the “people asking questions already answered by my shirt” meme.
Definitely NOT OK in a very Howard Hughes-Ian sense
posted by youthenrage at 2:37 PM on January 12 [16 favorites]
I sure hope not.
posted by 1adam12 at 2:25 PM on January 12
Uh, have you seen him recently? He’s like a humanoid version of the “people asking questions already answered by my shirt” meme.
Definitely NOT OK in a very Howard Hughes-Ian sense
posted by youthenrage at 2:37 PM on January 12 [16 favorites]
High on their own supply amongst many, many other things.
posted by youthenrage at 2:38 PM on January 12 [7 favorites]
posted by youthenrage at 2:38 PM on January 12 [7 favorites]
No seriously - what is wrong with these dudes? Musk, Thiel, even Joe Rogan, are all the same brand of (incredibly) strange. And they always look sweaty and grey, despite being the wealthiest people on the planet. Are they chugging mercury? Some weird supplement made of monkey stem cells?
posted by Stoof at 2:41 PM on January 12 [45 favorites]
posted by Stoof at 2:41 PM on January 12 [45 favorites]
.gov is a $7T/yr piñata and they're going to swing at it as hard as they can
posted by torokunai2 at 2:41 PM on January 12 [13 favorites]
posted by torokunai2 at 2:41 PM on January 12 [13 favorites]
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/graph/?g=1CRjx
Real (2024 dollars ) per-capita (age 16+) Federal spending, 1950 - now.
Here you can see the Korean Conflict, then the Vietnam spending hit in '65, things level off under Carter, Reaganomics blow everything up in the 80s, 1990s Clinton - Gingrich standoff / "Peace Dividend", Dotcom recession spending & Bush's GWOT 2002-, then massive social spending during the GFC, rising boomer expenditures and general loss of fiscal controls after Obama, then the pandemic social spending.
This is $2000+/mo of Federal spending for every US adult age 15+ . . . it is enough to drive anyone crazy if you stare at it long enough . . .
posted by torokunai2 at 2:54 PM on January 12 [7 favorites]
Real (2024 dollars ) per-capita (age 16+) Federal spending, 1950 - now.
Here you can see the Korean Conflict, then the Vietnam spending hit in '65, things level off under Carter, Reaganomics blow everything up in the 80s, 1990s Clinton - Gingrich standoff / "Peace Dividend", Dotcom recession spending & Bush's GWOT 2002-, then massive social spending during the GFC, rising boomer expenditures and general loss of fiscal controls after Obama, then the pandemic social spending.
This is $2000+/mo of Federal spending for every US adult age 15+ . . . it is enough to drive anyone crazy if you stare at it long enough . . .
posted by torokunai2 at 2:54 PM on January 12 [7 favorites]
1adam12: The trouble is if his state of non-okayness is biologically sustainable. Same with Elon Musk.
posted by BiggerJ at 2:56 PM on January 12 [3 favorites]
posted by BiggerJ at 2:56 PM on January 12 [3 favorites]
Glinn surveillance maybe Peter Thiel's overall worst activity, ala Palantir. Yet, if you're unfamiliar, then maybe you'll be amused by the vampirism:
- Peter Thiel Is Very, Very Interested in Young People’s Blood
- Ambrosia: the startup harvesting the blood of the young
posted by jeffburdges at 2:57 PM on January 12 [3 favorites]
- Peter Thiel Is Very, Very Interested in Young People’s Blood
- Ambrosia: the startup harvesting the blood of the young
posted by jeffburdges at 2:57 PM on January 12 [3 favorites]
youthenrage, that's unfair. Howard Hughes had some redeeming qualities.
posted by 1adam12 at 3:00 PM on January 12 [12 favorites]
posted by 1adam12 at 3:00 PM on January 12 [12 favorites]
These guys gotta get clean. It's honestly so embarrassing we got these old men addicted to drugs writing and saying all this weird crap in public. Families and friends too cowed by their money to intervene, I assume. Hell of a thing
posted by potrzebie at 3:04 PM on January 12 [17 favorites]
posted by potrzebie at 3:04 PM on January 12 [17 favorites]
I stopped at "Distributed Idea Suppression Complex".
I just think he's bonkers.
posted by dfm500 at 3:08 PM on January 12 [15 favorites]
I just think he's bonkers.
posted by dfm500 at 3:08 PM on January 12 [15 favorites]
We seem to be skipping straight to Hitler-in-the-Bunker levels of drug-addlement.
Trial balloon or desperate cry for help? Why not both.
posted by chromecow at 3:10 PM on January 12 [22 favorites]
Trial balloon or desperate cry for help? Why not both.
posted by chromecow at 3:10 PM on January 12 [22 favorites]
Donald Trump’s mentor was Roy Cohn, and J.D. Vance’s mentor was Peter Thiel. Their mentors are two of the most evil homosexuals (they wouldn’t want to be called gays) who ever lived.
posted by larrybob at 3:23 PM on January 12 [17 favorites]
posted by larrybob at 3:23 PM on January 12 [17 favorites]
The Ancien Regime? Has he cast himself as Philippe Égalité.
posted by clavdivs at 3:26 PM on January 12 [6 favorites]
posted by clavdivs at 3:26 PM on January 12 [6 favorites]
( "Philippe and his sister were amongst the first people in France to be inoculated against smallpox" . . . he, Rousseau, Voltaire, Frederick the Great, Jefferson, and Thomas Paine – throw in Betrand Russell to translate for me LOL – would make one helluva dinner guest list)
the thing that gets me to where we're going this decade is that the PTB like this clown simply don't have the tools to fix the thing that need fixing. They're all part of the problem, not the solution, as it were. Perhaps this fever dream from Thiel is to flood the zone with more shit, the circus of distraction while they steal everything that's not welded down.
posted by torokunai2 at 3:48 PM on January 12 [7 favorites]
the thing that gets me to where we're going this decade is that the PTB like this clown simply don't have the tools to fix the thing that need fixing. They're all part of the problem, not the solution, as it were. Perhaps this fever dream from Thiel is to flood the zone with more shit, the circus of distraction while they steal everything that's not welded down.
posted by torokunai2 at 3:48 PM on January 12 [7 favorites]
The Palantiri weren’t “cursed objects”. Denethor and Saruman misused them and let Sauron in, and fucked themselves up bigly in the process, but the Palantiri before all that were morally neutral.
That said, Thiel is a drug-addled shitbag who thinks he’s a demigod, just like Musk and Bezos and the rest of our vampire oligarch overlords, and he’s the perfect argument for guillotines though he deserves far worse, like scaphism.
posted by outgrown_hobnail at 3:50 PM on January 12 [23 favorites]
That said, Thiel is a drug-addled shitbag who thinks he’s a demigod, just like Musk and Bezos and the rest of our vampire oligarch overlords, and he’s the perfect argument for guillotines though he deserves far worse, like scaphism.
posted by outgrown_hobnail at 3:50 PM on January 12 [23 favorites]
We are absolutely entering a period of brutality, of no empathy, of horrors. Most of this is the result of our political and technological apparatus just giving up and bowing to Trump. But the Americans in our midst who long to do violence, who salivate at the chance to be hateful, they are now officially normalized and will be supported by the incoming administration, by our gatekeepers. Because nobody cares to fight anymore.
posted by grumpybear69 at 3:54 PM on January 12 [23 favorites]
posted by grumpybear69 at 3:54 PM on January 12 [23 favorites]
Wizard of Oz garbage to bedazzle the soft brained - welcome to the present.
posted by djseafood at 3:59 PM on January 12 [5 favorites]
posted by djseafood at 3:59 PM on January 12 [5 favorites]
Peter Thiel funding a "new Olympics" where athletes take performance enhancing drugs (vice)
posted by jeffburdges at 4:03 PM on January 12 [3 favorites]
posted by jeffburdges at 4:03 PM on January 12 [3 favorites]
The Ancien Regime? Has he cast himself as Philippe Égalité.
I want to know who the Napoleon will be, because I think we can save the nation a lot of heartache if he gets good advice on the Second Constutiton of the United States when it's time to write it.
posted by ocschwar at 4:03 PM on January 12 [4 favorites]
I want to know who the Napoleon will be, because I think we can save the nation a lot of heartache if he gets good advice on the Second Constutiton of the United States when it's time to write it.
posted by ocschwar at 4:03 PM on January 12 [4 favorites]
Yeah there's genuine impaired reality testing going on here. This is very familiar stuff if you've read the kind of letters disturbed people send to officials.
posted by Fiasco da Gama at 4:05 PM on January 12 [15 favorites]
posted by Fiasco da Gama at 4:05 PM on January 12 [15 favorites]
A friend from grammar school is a senior editor at FT. He usually announces lead stories with a journalistic intro and tiny summary, and then the link. For the Thiel piece, he posted to the effect of: "Welp, and here's this"
posted by scruss at 4:06 PM on January 12 [19 favorites]
posted by scruss at 4:06 PM on January 12 [19 favorites]
What is wrong with Peter Thiel? What is wrong with Elon Musk? What is wrong with Donald Trump? The degree varies a bit between them (it's most true of Musk), but a large part of the answer is: INTERNET POISONING.
posted by JHarris at 4:15 PM on January 12 [26 favorites]
posted by JHarris at 4:15 PM on January 12 [26 favorites]
There is something strangely egalitarian about the most wealthy and powerful people in the world being algorithmed down the same social media rabbit holes as the builder next door.
Though I guess you could say the same thing about cigarettes and lung cancer.
posted by swr at 4:17 PM on January 12 [17 favorites]
Though I guess you could say the same thing about cigarettes and lung cancer.
posted by swr at 4:17 PM on January 12 [17 favorites]
want to know who the Napoleon
now, some LT in Germany.
but I know who the next king will be.
as analogy goes, who's Fouché is the interesting question.
posted by clavdivs at 4:22 PM on January 12 [1 favorite]
now, some LT in Germany.
but I know who the next king will be.
as analogy goes, who's Fouché is the interesting question.
posted by clavdivs at 4:22 PM on January 12 [1 favorite]
You know what, though....
If we can maybe get Trump to go along this vein and try to pursue things like "let's get to the bottom of who really shot JFK", then...maybe it'll keep him too distracted for the next four years to do as much damage.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 4:31 PM on January 12 [14 favorites]
If we can maybe get Trump to go along this vein and try to pursue things like "let's get to the bottom of who really shot JFK", then...maybe it'll keep him too distracted for the next four years to do as much damage.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 4:31 PM on January 12 [14 favorites]
Come on folks - don't blame the drugs here. The problem isn't the drug use, it's the greed and utter lack of morals. Blame capitalism. The drugs have done nothing wrong!
posted by gingerbeer at 4:33 PM on January 12 [30 favorites]
posted by gingerbeer at 4:33 PM on January 12 [30 favorites]
The comments section of the FT article are humorously scorching. And they occupy about 90% of the scroll in my browser window.
posted by Liquidwolf at 4:37 PM on January 12 [9 favorites]
posted by Liquidwolf at 4:37 PM on January 12 [9 favorites]
I like to remind people the then conservative government of NZ gave him (well, lets be honest, he bought it) Kiwi Citizenship. I like to preface any mention of him with 'Kiwi Citizen' or as 'Citizen Thiel'.
posted by phigmov at 4:41 PM on January 12 [5 favorites]
posted by phigmov at 4:41 PM on January 12 [5 favorites]
Ok. I've read this now. Twice.
I understand all the words.
When put into the sentences, I cannot, for the life of me, understand the sentences. What the hell is Thiel going on about? Does he have a point? I ain't seeing it. I mean, I'm really not seeing a thesis to this piece. Other than, maybe, "cocaine is a helluva drug."
posted by a non mouse, a cow herd at 4:42 PM on January 12 [10 favorites]
I understand all the words.
When put into the sentences, I cannot, for the life of me, understand the sentences. What the hell is Thiel going on about? Does he have a point? I ain't seeing it. I mean, I'm really not seeing a thesis to this piece. Other than, maybe, "cocaine is a helluva drug."
posted by a non mouse, a cow herd at 4:42 PM on January 12 [10 favorites]
FTFYpiecemealcherrypicked declassifications
posted by johnabbe at 4:43 PM on January 12 [2 favorites]
non mouse, a cow herd, sounds like if he has anything to do with it, the new administration is going to feed into popular conspiracies to give people something else to do besides focus on what the government is doing or not doing during the next four years.
posted by Selena777 at 4:57 PM on January 12 [8 favorites]
posted by Selena777 at 4:57 PM on January 12 [8 favorites]
I’m not sure if it’s a relief, or if it’s even more disturbing that all of the so called leading lights of the right, all the guys with all the money and connections, those who always seem to have an open invitation to sit down for a puff piece interview, or easy access to any half assed op-ed they manage to squeeze out, they’re all, deep down, batshit insane and unstable as all hell to boot.
As espoused by a former Mefite elsewhere, the emotional maturity of a billionaire ceases developing the second their wealth is capable of shielding them from any consequences whatsoever. Musk is the equivalent of a kid delighting in screaming racial slurs on XBox because he knows he won’t get caught. Zuckerberg is forever desperate for his wealth to buy him access to the social life his college classmates enjoyed without him. Thiel? It seems like a guy fossilized in amber right after he found out about conspiracy theories, but instead of thinking “I should do good in the world” he went about making sure to use paranoia and mistrust to build power.
This will come across as deeply weird, given the very, very real damage the billionaire class has inflicted, and continues to inflict on the world, but they’re just so goddamn disappointing. They’re all trying act like some kind of Bond villain, but it’s always some sort of baby’s first Fischer Price villain lair play set bullshit. I see Zuckerberg with his bro chain, Musk posting racist memes from fifteen years ago like they’re the height of subtlety, that might finally make him cool, Jordan Peterson’s Kermit voice weeping about cartoons, or Thiel’s weirdly flopsweat coated face, and I think of Heath Ledger’s Joker talking about how this town deserves a better class of criminal. These guys are utterly awful human beings, the kind of person that, if not for their obscene wealth, would be rightfully ignored and ostracized for their insane ideas and utter lack of any social graces whatsoever.
Instead, because wealth means good, this kind of sociopathy is now seen as aspirational, and that small slim hope of letting them say their piece in the hopes that people will realize just how dumb it all is fades every day.
posted by Ghidorah at 4:58 PM on January 12 [60 favorites]
As espoused by a former Mefite elsewhere, the emotional maturity of a billionaire ceases developing the second their wealth is capable of shielding them from any consequences whatsoever. Musk is the equivalent of a kid delighting in screaming racial slurs on XBox because he knows he won’t get caught. Zuckerberg is forever desperate for his wealth to buy him access to the social life his college classmates enjoyed without him. Thiel? It seems like a guy fossilized in amber right after he found out about conspiracy theories, but instead of thinking “I should do good in the world” he went about making sure to use paranoia and mistrust to build power.
This will come across as deeply weird, given the very, very real damage the billionaire class has inflicted, and continues to inflict on the world, but they’re just so goddamn disappointing. They’re all trying act like some kind of Bond villain, but it’s always some sort of baby’s first Fischer Price villain lair play set bullshit. I see Zuckerberg with his bro chain, Musk posting racist memes from fifteen years ago like they’re the height of subtlety, that might finally make him cool, Jordan Peterson’s Kermit voice weeping about cartoons, or Thiel’s weirdly flopsweat coated face, and I think of Heath Ledger’s Joker talking about how this town deserves a better class of criminal. These guys are utterly awful human beings, the kind of person that, if not for their obscene wealth, would be rightfully ignored and ostracized for their insane ideas and utter lack of any social graces whatsoever.
Instead, because wealth means good, this kind of sociopathy is now seen as aspirational, and that small slim hope of letting them say their piece in the hopes that people will realize just how dumb it all is fades every day.
posted by Ghidorah at 4:58 PM on January 12 [60 favorites]
as analogy goes, who's Fouché is the interesting question.
TIL. Dude made the Vicar of Bray look like a piker.
posted by ocschwar at 5:11 PM on January 12 [2 favorites]
TIL. Dude made the Vicar of Bray look like a piker.
posted by ocschwar at 5:11 PM on January 12 [2 favorites]
I am so fucking tired of these assholes
posted by rhymedirective at 5:16 PM on January 12 [37 favorites]
posted by rhymedirective at 5:16 PM on January 12 [37 favorites]
… recently I had been thinking that Thiel was pretty smart to stay mum.
posted by stowaway at 5:16 PM on January 12 [6 favorites]
posted by stowaway at 5:16 PM on January 12 [6 favorites]
Postmodern Fascist Brainrot. Schrödinger Joke-Plan.
Great wealth and power is toxic to those who wield it
The one ring didnt need to be evil to destroy it's users, the great power alone is evidently enough.
posted by No Climate - No Food, No Food - No Future. at 5:23 PM on January 12 [10 favorites]
Great wealth and power is toxic to those who wield it
The one ring didnt need to be evil to destroy it's users, the great power alone is evidently enough.
posted by No Climate - No Food, No Food - No Future. at 5:23 PM on January 12 [10 favorites]
Sixty-five per cent of Americans still doubt that Lee Harvey Oswald acted alone
liar, as 65% of the American people don't know who Lee Harvey Oswald was.
"is so indecent that it cannot be said to another person if the proper words are used to convey it.”
like when your grinder is wet and you chop that half ounce with a stiletto and a chunk flies across the room.
you know you're going to pick it up.
"Can we believe that a Brazilian judge banned X without American backing, in a tragicomic perversion of the Monroe Doctrine"
So, the Chancellor of Spaceports allows Brazilian judge to block X circumnavigating United States ability to tweet in Brazil?
"Interviewer: What do you believe is behind this recent increase in terrorist bombings?
Mr. Helpmann: Bad sportsmanship. A ruthless minority of people seems to have forgotten certain good old-fashioned virtues. They just can't stand seeing the other fellow win. If these people would just play the game, they'd get a lot more out of life."
'Brazil'
posted by clavdivs at 5:32 PM on January 12 [8 favorites]
liar, as 65% of the American people don't know who Lee Harvey Oswald was.
"is so indecent that it cannot be said to another person if the proper words are used to convey it.”
like when your grinder is wet and you chop that half ounce with a stiletto and a chunk flies across the room.
you know you're going to pick it up.
"Can we believe that a Brazilian judge banned X without American backing, in a tragicomic perversion of the Monroe Doctrine"
So, the Chancellor of Spaceports allows Brazilian judge to block X circumnavigating United States ability to tweet in Brazil?
"Interviewer: What do you believe is behind this recent increase in terrorist bombings?
Mr. Helpmann: Bad sportsmanship. A ruthless minority of people seems to have forgotten certain good old-fashioned virtues. They just can't stand seeing the other fellow win. If these people would just play the game, they'd get a lot more out of life."
'Brazil'
posted by clavdivs at 5:32 PM on January 12 [8 favorites]
never let people who don't suffer control a world where suffering is otherwise universal
posted by seanmpuckett at 5:35 PM on January 12 [12 favorites]
posted by seanmpuckett at 5:35 PM on January 12 [12 favorites]
A better argument for confiscatory taxation has never been made. Having too much money seems to drive you bonkers, and we would be doing the rich a huge favor by taxing them until there were the same as the rest of us.
Lets just pick a big number, say 10 million us dollars, and say "you are as rich as anyone can be, every dollar you make after this, or every dollar of wealth you have after this will be taxed at 200%" Then we send them a little plaque, like a youtube play button or something, and they get their name on a list, and that is the last we ever need to hear from them.
They would be better off, we would be better off, the world would be better off, its a win win win.
posted by stilgar at 5:41 PM on January 12 [24 favorites]
Lets just pick a big number, say 10 million us dollars, and say "you are as rich as anyone can be, every dollar you make after this, or every dollar of wealth you have after this will be taxed at 200%" Then we send them a little plaque, like a youtube play button or something, and they get their name on a list, and that is the last we ever need to hear from them.
They would be better off, we would be better off, the world would be better off, its a win win win.
posted by stilgar at 5:41 PM on January 12 [24 favorites]
No, we give them a “You Won Capitalism!!1!” medal and give them their choice of animal or homeless shelter to bear their name. They will be forever banned from public speaking, writing opeds or running for office. Enjoy your well-deserved leisure time!
posted by outgrown_hobnail at 5:52 PM on January 12 [10 favorites]
posted by outgrown_hobnail at 5:52 PM on January 12 [10 favorites]
Am I understanding correctly that he's kinda suggesting that the American government/bureaucracy is in the position of the apartheid government of South Africa, in need of cleansing, confession, and forgiveness, while he, Peter Theil, is in the position that Black South Africans were in?
posted by clawsoon at 6:22 PM on January 12 [11 favorites]
posted by clawsoon at 6:22 PM on January 12 [11 favorites]
He is literally saying that there are people who committed crimes in maintenance of a bad ideology (analogous to Apartheid in 70-80s ZA) who should be pardoned from this offenses IF they come clean about them, as certain Apartheid-era cops, spies and soldiers did, and were.
posted by MattD at 6:45 PM on January 12 [8 favorites]
posted by MattD at 6:45 PM on January 12 [8 favorites]
They're teeing up another McCarthy era.
Either you swear a loyalty oath or you lose your job.
posted by constraint at 7:07 PM on January 12 [8 favorites]
Either you swear a loyalty oath or you lose your job.
posted by constraint at 7:07 PM on January 12 [8 favorites]
I stopped at "Distributed Idea Suppression Complex"
I didn't stop exactly but I definitely diverted for a while upon mention of "... My friend and colleague Eric Weinstein calls the pre-internet custodians of secrets the Distributed Idea Suppression Complex (DISC) ".
Yeah, this guy
posted by philip-random at 7:09 PM on January 12 [4 favorites]
I didn't stop exactly but I definitely diverted for a while upon mention of "... My friend and colleague Eric Weinstein calls the pre-internet custodians of secrets the Distributed Idea Suppression Complex (DISC) ".
Yeah, this guy
posted by philip-random at 7:09 PM on January 12 [4 favorites]
I can imagine someone like Dr Conrad Murray turning up to write medical scripts for these guys with, you know, similar results. No one is saying no to them at any point now. There isn't even any good source of advice for them to ignore or be angry at anymore, just smiling toadies nodding and telling them how smart they are. I kind of feel sorry for them.
posted by Richard Upton Pickman at 7:58 PM on January 12 [5 favorites]
posted by Richard Upton Pickman at 7:58 PM on January 12 [5 favorites]
I was hoping Thiel goes the way of that other gay fascist icon, Mishima.
The conspiracy theory stuff: if it stopped at JFK that would be fine. He really has it in for Fauci though. This could be a declaration that he wants him prosecuted. There's this talk about COVID being a lab leak, which is possible but not the explanation considered most likely by scientists. Republicans seem convinced, because they "did their own research" which they were not qualified to do. Then among many grants Fauci oversaw there was one in China for "gain of function research" and certain Republicans are drooling at the chance to blame Fauci for actually causing COVID.
Republicans WANT to blame Fauci. They resent his serious academic training because they dropped out of school where they lacked the attention span. Fauci has been dedicated to public service and not striking it rich. He seemed exasperated by Trump on video. The billionaires resented workers taking time off for COVID, they resented quarantining the sick. They want to control the production of "truth" and to be considered the smart ones and the ones saving humanity and resent that academics and people in government do that.
Steve Jobs also went in for woo pseudoscience instead of the appropriate treatment for his cancer. These billionaires want to be in control. They have a DIY approach, and don't want some smarty-pants medical establishment creating vaccines and getting credit.
posted by Schmucko at 10:01 PM on January 12 [20 favorites]
The conspiracy theory stuff: if it stopped at JFK that would be fine. He really has it in for Fauci though. This could be a declaration that he wants him prosecuted. There's this talk about COVID being a lab leak, which is possible but not the explanation considered most likely by scientists. Republicans seem convinced, because they "did their own research" which they were not qualified to do. Then among many grants Fauci oversaw there was one in China for "gain of function research" and certain Republicans are drooling at the chance to blame Fauci for actually causing COVID.
Republicans WANT to blame Fauci. They resent his serious academic training because they dropped out of school where they lacked the attention span. Fauci has been dedicated to public service and not striking it rich. He seemed exasperated by Trump on video. The billionaires resented workers taking time off for COVID, they resented quarantining the sick. They want to control the production of "truth" and to be considered the smart ones and the ones saving humanity and resent that academics and people in government do that.
Steve Jobs also went in for woo pseudoscience instead of the appropriate treatment for his cancer. These billionaires want to be in control. They have a DIY approach, and don't want some smarty-pants medical establishment creating vaccines and getting credit.
posted by Schmucko at 10:01 PM on January 12 [20 favorites]
How to prove you are both a moron and an irredeemable conspiracy theorist in one short article . . .
posted by flug at 10:22 PM on January 12 [4 favorites]
posted by flug at 10:22 PM on January 12 [4 favorites]
So many of these super-rich people got incredibly lucky with their first-mover advantages and being in the right place with their basic startups that they've had to spend the next 25-30 years trying to prove they were smart and not lucky. Plenty of exceptions, many many were smart, but some.... sheesh.
posted by bookbook at 12:00 AM on January 13 [10 favorites]
posted by bookbook at 12:00 AM on January 13 [10 favorites]
The only lessons here are that billionaires should be taxed out of existence and that some should be involuntarily committed to mental institutions for the safety of the general public.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 12:45 AM on January 13 [4 favorites]
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 12:45 AM on January 13 [4 favorites]
so what's the opposite of apocalypse? the real goal is the postmodern one of deconstruction, of veiling and confusing the truth to one's advantage so one can substitute one's worldview with propaganda and confuse things to the point where no apocalypse can be possible - he says truth and reconciliation but he means lies and submission
he's also quite out of touch if he thinks people care that much about who shot jfk that much - they're more concerned over who's screwing them over this week
posted by pyramid termite at 2:25 AM on January 13 [2 favorites]
he's also quite out of touch if he thinks people care that much about who shot jfk that much - they're more concerned over who's screwing them over this week
posted by pyramid termite at 2:25 AM on January 13 [2 favorites]
while he, Peter Theil, is in the position that Black South Africans were in?
Essentially, yes. It's the old "when you're accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression," but on a scale so much larger and grander than I imagine most Americans (including myself) can really grasp. Thiel and Musk's entire background is entrenched in the Apartheid ideal of racial supremacy, and I can't imagine they've ever looked back on it and thought of the end of Apartheid as anything other than the destruction of how the world they were brought up to believe in, followed by unbearable oppression in the form of the loss of the laws and culture that put them in a superior (utterly unjust) position.
It's entirely within keeping for the far right, who have utterly divorced the concept of freedom of speech and the idea that speech can have consequences, which is where you get (to cast the net wider) people like Dave Chappelle claiming that being criticized for bigoted speech is worse than being a bigot, or Alex Jones legal accountability for his words and deeds is persecution, and they all just sort of throw in with each other, perpetually aggrieved, imagining themselves to be under some sort of attack, as if their immense, planet warping wealth won't automatically insulate them from any and all harm.
posted by Ghidorah at 2:54 AM on January 13 [7 favorites]
Essentially, yes. It's the old "when you're accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression," but on a scale so much larger and grander than I imagine most Americans (including myself) can really grasp. Thiel and Musk's entire background is entrenched in the Apartheid ideal of racial supremacy, and I can't imagine they've ever looked back on it and thought of the end of Apartheid as anything other than the destruction of how the world they were brought up to believe in, followed by unbearable oppression in the form of the loss of the laws and culture that put them in a superior (utterly unjust) position.
It's entirely within keeping for the far right, who have utterly divorced the concept of freedom of speech and the idea that speech can have consequences, which is where you get (to cast the net wider) people like Dave Chappelle claiming that being criticized for bigoted speech is worse than being a bigot, or Alex Jones legal accountability for his words and deeds is persecution, and they all just sort of throw in with each other, perpetually aggrieved, imagining themselves to be under some sort of attack, as if their immense, planet warping wealth won't automatically insulate them from any and all harm.
posted by Ghidorah at 2:54 AM on January 13 [7 favorites]
It's not the "far right." It's the MAINSTREAM right. Sins of ignorance or omission, when committed by in-groups in the service of in-groups, must always be viewed as sins of malice.
posted by JohnFromGR at 2:58 AM on January 13 [10 favorites]
posted by JohnFromGR at 2:58 AM on January 13 [10 favorites]
they always look sweaty and grey, despite being the wealthiest people on the planet. Are they chugging mercury?
Plausibly colloidal silver.
well i just had to laugh
i saw the photograph
posted by flabdablet at 3:21 AM on January 13 [7 favorites]
Plausibly colloidal silver.
well i just had to laugh
i saw the photograph
posted by flabdablet at 3:21 AM on January 13 [7 favorites]
as if their immense, planet warping wealth won't automatically insulate them from any and all harm
Here's the thing, though: it won't. It might insulate them from attempts at harm performed by other people, but for these assclowns the calls are coming from inside the house.
posted by flabdablet at 3:24 AM on January 13 [1 favorite]
Here's the thing, though: it won't. It might insulate them from attempts at harm performed by other people, but for these assclowns the calls are coming from inside the house.
posted by flabdablet at 3:24 AM on January 13 [1 favorite]
As a thing written by a person who operates on their own recognizance in the world - it's strange and a little bit inane. The fixation on Fauci is strange, and what exactly he thinks the value and function of 'the internet' is, is not clear - from where I sit, it has evolved in a way that is both stunted and askew. The internet of 25 years ago is damn-near completely obliterated in a big surge of enshittification.
as if their immense, planet warping wealth won't automatically insulate them from any and all harm
Well, bear in mind there are no pockets in a shroud, no matter how much you try.
INTERNET POISONING. this is very plausible. Most internet 'discussion' are a truncated, from the hip-shot, outrage-driven, unthinking mess. Like both sides are the kid on the playground, flustered, losing the argument who blurts out, "I know you are but what am I?" and stomps off.
As mentioned upthread, Howard Hughes is the spiritual and psychic godfather of all these goofballs... Hold up! Dammit that's the idea, the winner, the unicorn! Make designer, eco-friendly, bespoke kleenex-box shoes! Jesus, I gotta get to my desk this is maybe a brilliant idea oh baby private compound in Maui here I come!
posted by From Bklyn at 4:45 AM on January 13 [3 favorites]
as if their immense, planet warping wealth won't automatically insulate them from any and all harm
Well, bear in mind there are no pockets in a shroud, no matter how much you try.
INTERNET POISONING. this is very plausible. Most internet 'discussion' are a truncated, from the hip-shot, outrage-driven, unthinking mess. Like both sides are the kid on the playground, flustered, losing the argument who blurts out, "I know you are but what am I?" and stomps off.
As mentioned upthread, Howard Hughes is the spiritual and psychic godfather of all these goofballs... Hold up! Dammit that's the idea, the winner, the unicorn! Make designer, eco-friendly, bespoke kleenex-box shoes! Jesus, I gotta get to my desk this is maybe a brilliant idea oh baby private compound in Maui here I come!
posted by From Bklyn at 4:45 AM on January 13 [3 favorites]
bookbook: So many of these super-rich people got incredibly lucky with their first-mover advantages and being in the right place with their basic startups that they've had to spend the next 25-30 years trying to prove they were smart and not lucky.
Reminds me of billionaires want you to know they could have done physics.
posted by clawsoon at 5:02 AM on January 13 [9 favorites]
Reminds me of billionaires want you to know they could have done physics.
posted by clawsoon at 5:02 AM on January 13 [9 favorites]
Argyria: One famous case is that of Stan Jones, a former Libertarian candidate for U.S. Senate in Montana.
posted by waving at 5:53 AM on January 13
posted by waving at 5:53 AM on January 13
AI, what is the Orwellian opposite of “Truth and Reconciliation?”
posted by larrybob at 7:27 AM on January 13
posted by larrybob at 7:27 AM on January 13
This reads like a Q-Anon screed. Either Thiel is genuinely off his rocker, Howard Hughes style, or he has an evil purpose in writing this, but I don’t understand what that would be or why it would be in FT of all places.
Maybe it serves to put the “global elite” on notice that they’d better bend the knee like all the invertebrate billionaires and tech companies donating to the inauguration, or else they’ll be caught up in the coming shitstorm of specious politically motivated prosecutions. But now I sound like the conspiracy theorist.
posted by qxntpqbbbqxl at 7:32 AM on January 13 [7 favorites]
Maybe it serves to put the “global elite” on notice that they’d better bend the knee like all the invertebrate billionaires and tech companies donating to the inauguration, or else they’ll be caught up in the coming shitstorm of specious politically motivated prosecutions. But now I sound like the conspiracy theorist.
posted by qxntpqbbbqxl at 7:32 AM on January 13 [7 favorites]
The idea that Thiel is "high on his own supply" seems very accurate to me. He thinks he's a populist for freedom because he wants power in Twitter/X mobs and has the common idea that markets are infinitely wise. But not institutions with cross-checking and a history like Wikipedia. "High on his own supply" because places like Twitter and the chans are rife with bots, if not directly the work of billionaires, then foreign actors whose agendas come into alignment. And unmoderated fora give only the illusion of "the people" as gamergate style bullying and doxing will silence the communities who started #MeToo and #BlackLivesMatter. Financial rewards for users who go viral from content that flatters or shocks its biased audience further amplifies misinformation. Grifters want to target the most manipulable audience so cultivate it. Thiel and Musk think the voice of the people is from catturds who fanboy them.
posted by Schmucko at 9:28 AM on January 13 [1 favorite]
posted by Schmucko at 9:28 AM on January 13 [1 favorite]
What is wrong with Peter Thiel? What is wrong with Elon Musk? What is wrong with Donald Trump?
Hard to $ay.
posted by Thorzdad at 10:10 AM on January 13 [6 favorites]
Hard to $ay.
posted by Thorzdad at 10:10 AM on January 13 [6 favorites]
What I want to know more than anything is why this shit happened in Silicon Valley and NOT in Boston.
posted by ocschwar at 10:33 AM on January 13 [1 favorite]
posted by ocschwar at 10:33 AM on January 13 [1 favorite]
The Financial Times may have stooped to publishing billionaire lunacy, but at least they published a reply from Knuckles the Dog Who Helps People.
posted by whuppy at 11:23 AM on January 13 [1 favorite]
posted by whuppy at 11:23 AM on January 13 [1 favorite]
Something struck me in reading this, although it wasn't whatever cogent argument he imagines he's making.
Y'know how a lot of publications, including various respected publications as well as the New York Times and the Economist, have a policy of referring to people using honorifics? Like, the first time they mention someone it'll be "Bruce Springsteen" and from then on it's "Mr. Springsteen"?
Thiel's article mentions, by my count, 14 different human people. (I exclude Joe Biden, because the reference is to the "Biden administration") Two of them, Trump and Boccaccio, are referred to only by the single name. Most of the rest are only mentioned by name the once; there are five people who he mentions first by full name and then refers to by last name. Four of those follow-up mentions are name-only, with no honorific: Obama, Oswald, Fauci, and Morens. There's just one person for whom Thiel bothers to use an honorific: Mr. [Jeffrey] Epstein.
Look, I'm not saying this means anything in particular, but until Thiel explains what his thinking was here - until he comes clean - I don't think we should forgive him.
posted by nickmark at 11:41 AM on January 13 [7 favorites]
Y'know how a lot of publications, including various respected publications as well as the New York Times and the Economist, have a policy of referring to people using honorifics? Like, the first time they mention someone it'll be "Bruce Springsteen" and from then on it's "Mr. Springsteen"?
Thiel's article mentions, by my count, 14 different human people. (I exclude Joe Biden, because the reference is to the "Biden administration") Two of them, Trump and Boccaccio, are referred to only by the single name. Most of the rest are only mentioned by name the once; there are five people who he mentions first by full name and then refers to by last name. Four of those follow-up mentions are name-only, with no honorific: Obama, Oswald, Fauci, and Morens. There's just one person for whom Thiel bothers to use an honorific: Mr. [Jeffrey] Epstein.
Look, I'm not saying this means anything in particular, but until Thiel explains what his thinking was here - until he comes clean - I don't think we should forgive him.
posted by nickmark at 11:41 AM on January 13 [7 favorites]
as analogy goes, who's Fouché is the interesting question
clavdivs, did you even consult Central Casting? It's eerie.
posted by taz at 2:33 PM on January 13
clavdivs, did you even consult Central Casting? It's eerie.
posted by taz at 2:33 PM on January 13
the so called leading lights of the right
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ The effect.
batshit insane and unstable as all hell
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ The cause.
posted by HiroProtagonist at 6:46 PM on January 13
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ The effect.
batshit insane and unstable as all hell
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ The cause.
posted by HiroProtagonist at 6:46 PM on January 13
I could feel the uncontrolled spittle flying off this article.
posted by Word_Salad at 10:42 PM on January 13 [5 favorites]
posted by Word_Salad at 10:42 PM on January 13 [5 favorites]
Arriving here late (and on mobile) to say that the message in Thiel’s op ed is very clear (and chilling) to me. Here’s my take.
Consider that these guys (Silicon Valley billionaires, Thiel, Musk, Altman, Andreessen, etc.) believe the optimal form of human government is rule by Plato’s philosopher kings: them. Wise people who can see the Grand Picture who have thought deeply about tough problems facing humanity, who are prepared and positioned to make the hard choices needed for the good of all. These are the tedious Truth, Beauty, and Justice guys with the marble statue profile pics and Latin/Greek phrases in their bios you encounter on every internet platform. Except unfortunately for us, these particular guys literally have all the money.
In their opinion, representative democracy (ancien regime) has failed. They bought most of the legislators but still couldn’t bend nations and populations fully to their will. Science and tech research didn’t go in the directions they cared about—that would benefit humans most. In their learned opinions. They think it’s time for something new: rule by them.
They thought Trump’s first presidency would be the start but the institutional loyalists (aka the adults in the room) curbed progress. Biden’s presidency gave the illusion that the old regime was robust instead of crumbling. They weren’t fooled, even if we were. Now, they have enough leverage, resources, and people in the right places to make their kingdoms reality.
Too bad for us their revolution won’t solve thorny problems like racism (1619). Those problems are too old and difficult to tackle. Plus, not enough benefit to the whole. But it will address a handful of more near term urgent issues they care about solving.
I hope my utter disgust and derision for Thiel’s op ed is obvious. I despise him and his vision. Nonetheless, by the time I read to the end of the piece, the hair was standing up on the back of my neck and I was looking for an exit. I’m not sure there is one for any of us.
posted by skye.dancer at 9:44 PM on January 14 [7 favorites]
Consider that these guys (Silicon Valley billionaires, Thiel, Musk, Altman, Andreessen, etc.) believe the optimal form of human government is rule by Plato’s philosopher kings: them. Wise people who can see the Grand Picture who have thought deeply about tough problems facing humanity, who are prepared and positioned to make the hard choices needed for the good of all. These are the tedious Truth, Beauty, and Justice guys with the marble statue profile pics and Latin/Greek phrases in their bios you encounter on every internet platform. Except unfortunately for us, these particular guys literally have all the money.
In their opinion, representative democracy (ancien regime) has failed. They bought most of the legislators but still couldn’t bend nations and populations fully to their will. Science and tech research didn’t go in the directions they cared about—that would benefit humans most. In their learned opinions. They think it’s time for something new: rule by them.
They thought Trump’s first presidency would be the start but the institutional loyalists (aka the adults in the room) curbed progress. Biden’s presidency gave the illusion that the old regime was robust instead of crumbling. They weren’t fooled, even if we were. Now, they have enough leverage, resources, and people in the right places to make their kingdoms reality.
Too bad for us their revolution won’t solve thorny problems like racism (1619). Those problems are too old and difficult to tackle. Plus, not enough benefit to the whole. But it will address a handful of more near term urgent issues they care about solving.
I hope my utter disgust and derision for Thiel’s op ed is obvious. I despise him and his vision. Nonetheless, by the time I read to the end of the piece, the hair was standing up on the back of my neck and I was looking for an exit. I’m not sure there is one for any of us.
posted by skye.dancer at 9:44 PM on January 14 [7 favorites]
Too bad for us their revolution won’t solve thorny problems like racism
I think Peter Thiel and Elon Musk are looking forward to "solving racism" the 20th century South African way.
posted by Pallas Athena at 8:55 AM on January 15 [2 favorites]
I think Peter Thiel and Elon Musk are looking forward to "solving racism" the 20th century South African way.
posted by Pallas Athena at 8:55 AM on January 15 [2 favorites]
Here's a sufficiently detail rich biographic dossier on Musk that indicates the "philosopher" part of philosopher king really is doing a heavy lift.
posted by ocschwar at 5:45 AM on January 18 [3 favorites]
posted by ocschwar at 5:45 AM on January 18 [3 favorites]
Related update, Trump is going to release the JFK, RFK and MLK files for people to argue over while he loads up vans full of undocumented workers. Would not be surprised if he does something similar for Area 51
posted by Selena777 at 11:44 AM on January 24
posted by Selena777 at 11:44 AM on January 24
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This is a man who funded Facebook and PayPal and now backs a mass surveillance and AI company named after a cursed object from The Lord of the Rings.
Yeegads.
posted by Glinn at 2:18 PM on January 12 [14 favorites]