A New Form Of Life
January 17, 2025 10:04 AM Subscribe
A group of biologists based at Stanford has discovered a new form of life, unrelated to any known animal, plant, bacteria,
archea or virus. Known as obelisks, they consists of tiny circular fragments of
RNA, without a protein coating (like viruses have). These were discovered by computer-aided searching through tens of thousands of RNA sequences and according to the authors "they define the working limits of biological information transfer". Some of these live in the human gut, and their effect on health is yet unknown. Like viruses they are at the border of life and non-life, as they require a host organism to reproduce. It is not clear how they fit into the "Tree Of
Life". They may be remnants of a hypothesized "RNA World" which means they may pre-date DNA-based life. It's fascinating to me that these have been around for longer than us but we're just discovering them now. “There are more things in Heaven and Earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy” - and in your gut biome too.
Wikipedia article via John Baez on Mathstodon
Obviously the next-next new form of life we find will have to be called an asterisk.
posted by clawsoon at 11:03 AM on January 17 [24 favorites]
posted by clawsoon at 11:03 AM on January 17 [24 favorites]
Specific name for the one they found is Tormentor (Obelisk the Tormentor) yugioh.fandom.com/wiki/Obelisk_the_Tormentor
posted by drossdragon at 11:22 AM on January 17 [4 favorites]
posted by drossdragon at 11:22 AM on January 17 [4 favorites]
This is crazy in the best way. I love how far our definition of life has stretched over time--those links in the "Tree of Life" sentence in the FPP are such a good illustration for how the idea became much less tree-like and much more...I don't know, amoebic isn't the right word, but weird and interesting rather than dully hierarchical. (Check out the little crowns in the one picture!)
posted by mittens at 11:29 AM on January 17 [2 favorites]
posted by mittens at 11:29 AM on January 17 [2 favorites]
I am bummed they didn't just recombinantly express the oblins and do some pulldowns, but maybe that's the sequel paper....
posted by Tandem Affinity at 11:32 AM on January 17
posted by Tandem Affinity at 11:32 AM on January 17
RNA World never went away. Saying it did is like saying that the Web superseded the Internet.
posted by flabdablet at 12:28 PM on January 17 [6 favorites]
posted by flabdablet at 12:28 PM on January 17 [6 favorites]
Over at HN one of the authors of the Cell paper popped in for questions:
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42547489
ababaian 18 days ago | next [–]
Cool :) I'm a co-author on this. AMA.
This is now a peer-reviewed paper, published last month in Cell [https://www.cell.com/cell/fulltext/S0092-8674(24)01091-2].
Obelisks are part of a larger research program we're developing at the University of Toronto + collaborators, see also: Virus-Viroid Hybrids paper [https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-023-38301-2] and the Zeta-Elements [https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-021-04332-2].
Computational biology is driving a revolutionary expansion of our understanding of Earth's biodiversity. I believe Zeta-elements, Ambiviruses, and Obelisks are just the beginning. If you're interested, our "Laboratory for RNA-Based Lifeforms" (University of Toronto) is hiring passionate developers/post-docs/graduate students [https://www.rnalab.ca].
posted by aleph at 12:43 PM on January 17 [15 favorites]
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42547489
ababaian 18 days ago | next [–]
Cool :) I'm a co-author on this. AMA.
This is now a peer-reviewed paper, published last month in Cell [https://www.cell.com/cell/fulltext/S0092-8674(24)01091-2].
Obelisks are part of a larger research program we're developing at the University of Toronto + collaborators, see also: Virus-Viroid Hybrids paper [https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-023-38301-2] and the Zeta-Elements [https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-021-04332-2].
Computational biology is driving a revolutionary expansion of our understanding of Earth's biodiversity. I believe Zeta-elements, Ambiviruses, and Obelisks are just the beginning. If you're interested, our "Laboratory for RNA-Based Lifeforms" (University of Toronto) is hiring passionate developers/post-docs/graduate students [https://www.rnalab.ca].
posted by aleph at 12:43 PM on January 17 [15 favorites]
Life is not a tree, it's a jungle.
posted by flabdablet at 12:48 PM on January 17 [8 favorites]
posted by flabdablet at 12:48 PM on January 17 [8 favorites]
Baez is a real genius and a joy to read. His Rosetta stone and paper on entropy on arXiv.org are highly recommended if you like the intersection of math, physics and computer science or just discovering information you didn’t know.
posted by astrobiophysican at 1:41 PM on January 17 [5 favorites]
posted by astrobiophysican at 1:41 PM on January 17 [5 favorites]
"wet and full of life"
posted by ginger.beef at 1:49 PM on January 17 [1 favorite]
posted by ginger.beef at 1:49 PM on January 17 [1 favorite]
RNA World never went away. Saying it did is like saying that the Web superseded the Internet.
RNA never went away, but the term "RNA World" specifically refers to an era "before the evolution of DNA and proteins" (from the linked article)
posted by crazy_yeti at 1:58 PM on January 17 [6 favorites]
RNA never went away, but the term "RNA World" specifically refers to an era "before the evolution of DNA and proteins" (from the linked article)
posted by crazy_yeti at 1:58 PM on January 17 [6 favorites]
Asterisks are like opinionisks: every obelisk's got one.
posted by grumpybear69 at 2:00 PM on January 17 [5 favorites]
posted by grumpybear69 at 2:00 PM on January 17 [5 favorites]
the term "RNA World" specifically refers to an era "before the evolution of DNA and proteins" (from the linked article)
Sure. What I'm suggesting is that I would not be at all surprised to learn that assorted kinds of RNA replicators from that era persist to this day, engaging either minimally or not at all with all this new-fangled DNA and protein nonsense on the basis that it's no more than a passing fad and clearly sending the world to hell in a handbasket. RNA Luddites, if you will.
posted by flabdablet at 3:01 PM on January 17 [5 favorites]
Sure. What I'm suggesting is that I would not be at all surprised to learn that assorted kinds of RNA replicators from that era persist to this day, engaging either minimally or not at all with all this new-fangled DNA and protein nonsense on the basis that it's no more than a passing fad and clearly sending the world to hell in a handbasket. RNA Luddites, if you will.
posted by flabdablet at 3:01 PM on January 17 [5 favorites]
Aleph I was going to point to the same - it is worth visiting the thread.
posted by drowsy at 3:48 PM on January 17
posted by drowsy at 3:48 PM on January 17
Now that gut health is understood to impact just about everything from building muscle mass to affecting depression, there will probably be reams and reams of studies written on what this lil' bugger does. For certain affects us.
Reading this gave me shivers thinking about how life on this planet is interwoven from the beginning.
posted by BlueHorse at 3:59 PM on January 17 [2 favorites]
Reading this gave me shivers thinking about how life on this planet is interwoven from the beginning.
posted by BlueHorse at 3:59 PM on January 17 [2 favorites]
Why shivers?
Why not a sense of deep and abiding connection and belonging?
I know which I'd pick, given the choice.
Oh wait, I was.
posted by flabdablet at 4:01 PM on January 17
Why not a sense of deep and abiding connection and belonging?
I know which I'd pick, given the choice.
Oh wait, I was.
posted by flabdablet at 4:01 PM on January 17
I guess that was unclear--I meant happy and amazed shivers from the complete and total AWESOMENESS of this discovery.
posted by BlueHorse at 4:05 PM on January 17 [6 favorites]
posted by BlueHorse at 4:05 PM on January 17 [6 favorites]
While of course I share in the sense of awe here (seriously, I love this, I've been thinking about it since I first heard about them), the cynic in me wonders how long it will take before you can buy supplements TO TAKE YOUR OBELISKS TO THE NEXT LEVEL.
posted by mittens at 4:38 PM on January 17 [3 favorites]
posted by mittens at 4:38 PM on January 17 [3 favorites]
"...Why shivers?"
Well, good shivers and bad. Greg Bear's "Blood Music" gave someone I know the bad shivers. Personally, I liked it.
Hopefully, the left-over rna's and such aren't too extensive. Or, next thing you know someone'l weaponize them. And then it'll be Lojack-in-the-BIOS all over again.
posted by aleph at 7:13 PM on January 17
Well, good shivers and bad. Greg Bear's "Blood Music" gave someone I know the bad shivers. Personally, I liked it.
Hopefully, the left-over rna's and such aren't too extensive. Or, next thing you know someone'l weaponize them. And then it'll be Lojack-in-the-BIOS all over again.
posted by aleph at 7:13 PM on January 17
NEW FRIENDS NEW FRIENDS
posted by rrrrrrrrrt at 7:31 PM on January 17 [6 favorites]
posted by rrrrrrrrrt at 7:31 PM on January 17 [6 favorites]
(Although I suppose I ought to show more respect to our elders, this is very exciting)
posted by rrrrrrrrrt at 7:32 PM on January 17 [3 favorites]
posted by rrrrrrrrrt at 7:32 PM on January 17 [3 favorites]
Reading this gave me shivers thinking about how life on this planet is interwoven from the beginning.
posted by BlueHorse
Our Planet gives and gives, this discovery gives more shape and scope to the thing we call "Mother Earth"
Everyone makes fun of "midichlorians" as a narrative device, but it is difficult to find fiction or other cultural methods that can even absorb and communicate these lessons on the many ways in which our species is interwoven into the fabric of life.
posted by eustatic at 11:09 PM on January 17 [2 favorites]
posted by BlueHorse
Our Planet gives and gives, this discovery gives more shape and scope to the thing we call "Mother Earth"
Everyone makes fun of "midichlorians" as a narrative device, but it is difficult to find fiction or other cultural methods that can even absorb and communicate these lessons on the many ways in which our species is interwoven into the fabric of life.
posted by eustatic at 11:09 PM on January 17 [2 favorites]
I know this is off the RNA topic, but I have to second
astrobiophysician: John Baez is amazing, and the Rosetta
Stone paper changed my view of mathematics.
His Mathstodon feed is full of great stuff!
About the new (old) obelisks: how much smaller can
life get??
posted by Vegiemon at 1:07 AM on January 18 [1 favorite]
astrobiophysician: John Baez is amazing, and the Rosetta
Stone paper changed my view of mathematics.
His Mathstodon feed is full of great stuff!
About the new (old) obelisks: how much smaller can
life get??
posted by Vegiemon at 1:07 AM on January 18 [1 favorite]
how much smaller can life get??
This seems to be pushing the lower limit, they contain 1.4Kb of information, if I'm reading this correctly
posted by crazy_yeti at 10:09 AM on January 18
This seems to be pushing the lower limit, they contain 1.4Kb of information, if I'm reading this correctly
posted by crazy_yeti at 10:09 AM on January 18
I, for one, welcome our new (old) obelisk overloards.
posted by Kabanos at 10:41 AM on January 18 [1 favorite]
posted by Kabanos at 10:41 AM on January 18 [1 favorite]
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