For Musk and Thiel, Past is Prologue
January 26, 2025 6:17 PM Subscribe
In an article that deserves to go viral, the Guardian's former Johannesburg correspondent Chris McGreal traces how Musk and Thiel's South African and South West African boyhoods continue to influence Musk and Thiel's worldviews.
As it turns out, Musk's Nazi salute is also the salute used by the AWB (Afrikaner Weerstandsbeweging), a neo-Nazi party, founded in the early 1970s to oppose any relaxation of apartheid. Meanwhile, his grandfather Joshua Haldeman founded Technocracy Incorporated, a fringe political party that "promoted a society headed by technical experts," which Canada banned for supporting HItler during WWII. Postwar, he led a separate fringe party, this one promoting the forged antisemitic Protocols of the Elders of Zion. Eventually, "he moved to South Africa because he said he liked the core National party philosophy of Christian nationalism that [has been] likened to Nazism."
Thiel grew up in the neighboring country currently known as Namibia. A former German colony, complete with entirely German-style towns, Namibia is widely considered to have been a trial run for the Holocaust, and a century later they are still seeking adequate reparations. Born in the late 1960s, Peter Thiel lived in the region until the mid-1980s. "In 1976 the New York Times reported that some people in the town continued to greet each other with “Heil Hitler” and to give the Nazi salute."
As it turns out, Musk's Nazi salute is also the salute used by the AWB (Afrikaner Weerstandsbeweging), a neo-Nazi party, founded in the early 1970s to oppose any relaxation of apartheid. Meanwhile, his grandfather Joshua Haldeman founded Technocracy Incorporated, a fringe political party that "promoted a society headed by technical experts," which Canada banned for supporting HItler during WWII. Postwar, he led a separate fringe party, this one promoting the forged antisemitic Protocols of the Elders of Zion. Eventually, "he moved to South Africa because he said he liked the core National party philosophy of Christian nationalism that [has been] likened to Nazism."
Thiel grew up in the neighboring country currently known as Namibia. A former German colony, complete with entirely German-style towns, Namibia is widely considered to have been a trial run for the Holocaust, and a century later they are still seeking adequate reparations. Born in the late 1960s, Peter Thiel lived in the region until the mid-1980s. "In 1976 the New York Times reported that some people in the town continued to greet each other with “Heil Hitler” and to give the Nazi salute."
The Thiel episodes of Behind the Bastards were a local peak of "I am shocked. Shocked! Well, not that shocked" in recent memory. But it really is devastating to realize that these facts were totally discoverable (and to varying degrees discovered) when these assholes were first becoming rich, famous, and powerful.
To some degree I do believe we're more numb than we used to be, that the firehose of news sewage over the last decade has turned previously-career-ending scandals into half-day jokes. But then again, Trump has been famous for being awful for my entire life and look where we are now.
The problem isn't just that the most powerful people are the worst, but also that we let the worst people become and remain powerful. Feels like it should've been someone's job in this century to put a red sticky note on the application to form a surveillance tech company named after the fictional seeing stones controlled by an evil overlord.
posted by Riki tiki at 8:24 PM on January 26 [25 favorites]
To some degree I do believe we're more numb than we used to be, that the firehose of news sewage over the last decade has turned previously-career-ending scandals into half-day jokes. But then again, Trump has been famous for being awful for my entire life and look where we are now.
The problem isn't just that the most powerful people are the worst, but also that we let the worst people become and remain powerful. Feels like it should've been someone's job in this century to put a red sticky note on the application to form a surveillance tech company named after the fictional seeing stones controlled by an evil overlord.
posted by Riki tiki at 8:24 PM on January 26 [25 favorites]
“A man sees in the world what he carries in his heart.”
– Von Goethe
posted by robbyrobs at 8:29 PM on January 26 [23 favorites]
– Von Goethe
posted by robbyrobs at 8:29 PM on January 26 [23 favorites]
The problem isn't just that the most powerful people are the worst, but also that we let the worst people become and remain powerful.
Worth pointing out I think that "we" didn't let them do anything, that "we" in fact were quite deliberately and often brutally prevented from doing anything about it by the very people who were in a position to actually do something about them (see, e.g., the Occupy and BLM movements). Thanks DNC!
posted by Pedantzilla at 8:52 PM on January 26 [29 favorites]
Worth pointing out I think that "we" didn't let them do anything, that "we" in fact were quite deliberately and often brutally prevented from doing anything about it by the very people who were in a position to actually do something about them (see, e.g., the Occupy and BLM movements). Thanks DNC!
posted by Pedantzilla at 8:52 PM on January 26 [29 favorites]
Dang. well someone tell Robert Evans he needs to edit his podcast; that work from 2020 was based, i think, on only a couple of pro industry biographies that are still being referenced by 2025 writers
It is wild to think how he crafted his image so well, so many have attributed his 'Kanye' break to the pandemic, but...remember when he randomly threatened to invade Bolivia for Lithium? Chip off the old Block there
posted by eustatic at 8:56 PM on January 26 [1 favorite]
It is wild to think how he crafted his image so well, so many have attributed his 'Kanye' break to the pandemic, but...remember when he randomly threatened to invade Bolivia for Lithium? Chip off the old Block there
posted by eustatic at 8:56 PM on January 26 [1 favorite]
It's a travesty, ad nauseum.
posted by Smedly, Butlerian jihadi at 9:00 PM on January 26 [5 favorites]
posted by Smedly, Butlerian jihadi at 9:00 PM on January 26 [5 favorites]
> Thanks DNC!
Please educate us what exactly the DNC had to do with Elon Musk.
Just kidding, I know you meant it about Occupy Wall Street and BLM.
So, please educate us what exactly the DNC had to do with Occupy Wall Street and BLM.
posted by Back At It Again At Krispy Kreme at 9:01 PM on January 26 [12 favorites]
Please educate us what exactly the DNC had to do with Elon Musk.
Just kidding, I know you meant it about Occupy Wall Street and BLM.
So, please educate us what exactly the DNC had to do with Occupy Wall Street and BLM.
posted by Back At It Again At Krispy Kreme at 9:01 PM on January 26 [12 favorites]
"[T]he firehose of news sewage over the last decade has turned previously-career-ending scandals into half-day jokes."
First Craigslist and then Facebook gutted the always modest profits of legacy media. Then Amazon came along and did the same thing with the book industry. Before we knew it, reporters and authors were spending significant amounts of time scrambling for page views and likes in order to keep their jobs. For several years now, even journalists with the well-compensated New York Times have been expected to publish four pieces a day (e.g. articles, blog posts, etc.). This is why for the last decade or more, you were more likely to see a bunch of aggregated tweets compiled into a story rather than an actual article: No one can come up with that much original reporting every two hours.
At the same time, I think so many of us were so dazzled by Silicon Valley for so long, no one wanted to see the young emperors had no clothes. People wanted to believe that Musk was a genius. It played into a nostalgic Great Man Theory, a fantasy from another era, that so much endless, and sometimes pointless, takedowns over the years wouldn't allow.
Fantasy aside, I also think folks mistook what are frequently mundane middleman companies for the razzle dazzle of e-commerce just because the presentation was different. Certainly, by the time we reached "internet" food delivery and taxi services, more folks should have cottoned to the fact that all they were doing was gutting working class jobs and damaging the always low profits of restaurants and retail. But, you know, that's what happens when creative destruction is the reigning economic theory, and there's no institutional counterweight to think through what has been lost, left behind or even ruined by the "creative" change.
posted by Violet Blue at 9:09 PM on January 26 [39 favorites]
First Craigslist and then Facebook gutted the always modest profits of legacy media. Then Amazon came along and did the same thing with the book industry. Before we knew it, reporters and authors were spending significant amounts of time scrambling for page views and likes in order to keep their jobs. For several years now, even journalists with the well-compensated New York Times have been expected to publish four pieces a day (e.g. articles, blog posts, etc.). This is why for the last decade or more, you were more likely to see a bunch of aggregated tweets compiled into a story rather than an actual article: No one can come up with that much original reporting every two hours.
At the same time, I think so many of us were so dazzled by Silicon Valley for so long, no one wanted to see the young emperors had no clothes. People wanted to believe that Musk was a genius. It played into a nostalgic Great Man Theory, a fantasy from another era, that so much endless, and sometimes pointless, takedowns over the years wouldn't allow.
Fantasy aside, I also think folks mistook what are frequently mundane middleman companies for the razzle dazzle of e-commerce just because the presentation was different. Certainly, by the time we reached "internet" food delivery and taxi services, more folks should have cottoned to the fact that all they were doing was gutting working class jobs and damaging the always low profits of restaurants and retail. But, you know, that's what happens when creative destruction is the reigning economic theory, and there's no institutional counterweight to think through what has been lost, left behind or even ruined by the "creative" change.
posted by Violet Blue at 9:09 PM on January 26 [39 favorites]
"he randomly threatened to invade Bolivia for Lithium"
You mean Musk, of course? I won't derail here, but you know who has a lot of lithium? Ukraine. (But that will be the topic of another post.)
posted by Violet Blue at 9:11 PM on January 26 [10 favorites]
You mean Musk, of course? I won't derail here, but you know who has a lot of lithium? Ukraine. (But that will be the topic of another post.)
posted by Violet Blue at 9:11 PM on January 26 [10 favorites]
>creative destruction
funny how that never goes after economists
posted by torokunai2 at 9:26 PM on January 26 [4 favorites]
funny how that never goes after economists
posted by torokunai2 at 9:26 PM on January 26 [4 favorites]
yes, it was Musk, via Tweet....and it was during the pandemic
I believe the 2020 quote was, "we will coup whoever we want"
the shit in Ukraine with StarLink is also insane, i do believe the military objected to Musk getting these contracts. of course, he framed his opposition to Ukrainian advances as an 'anti war' position....
Really talented liar, is all. this "autism" schtick...i mean, we've all seen Dr Strangelove, right? this shit is that weird
posted by eustatic at 9:26 PM on January 26 [11 favorites]
I believe the 2020 quote was, "we will coup whoever we want"
the shit in Ukraine with StarLink is also insane, i do believe the military objected to Musk getting these contracts. of course, he framed his opposition to Ukrainian advances as an 'anti war' position....
Really talented liar, is all. this "autism" schtick...i mean, we've all seen Dr Strangelove, right? this shit is that weird
posted by eustatic at 9:26 PM on January 26 [11 favorites]
RE: "Seth Abramson..."
I looked at the piece a couple of days ago when it was first linked to Metafilter. I had trouble taking it seriously. The writing style was unprofessional, as though the author had a personal grudge. I was sufficiently troubled by the presentation that I looked Abramson up, and according to Wikipedia he has fancy academic credentials. I don't know. Maybe it was just me.
posted by Violet Blue at 9:28 PM on January 26 [2 favorites]
I looked at the piece a couple of days ago when it was first linked to Metafilter. I had trouble taking it seriously. The writing style was unprofessional, as though the author had a personal grudge. I was sufficiently troubled by the presentation that I looked Abramson up, and according to Wikipedia he has fancy academic credentials. I don't know. Maybe it was just me.
posted by Violet Blue at 9:28 PM on January 26 [2 favorites]
Seth Abramson is not a credible source and his credentials have been inflated.
https://www.cjr.org/special_report/seth-abramson-twitter.php/
posted by fontgoddess at 9:42 PM on January 26 [12 favorites]
https://www.cjr.org/special_report/seth-abramson-twitter.php/
posted by fontgoddess at 9:42 PM on January 26 [12 favorites]
Seth Abramson got a lot of Twitter followers (and hey, I was one of them) during Trump 1.0, but he was always pretty sensational. It felt like he was just a step up from all the people who wrote out "tRump" whenever referring to Orange Person. Writing like he has a personal grudge fits in with what I remember.
posted by JHarris at 10:19 PM on January 26 [6 favorites]
posted by JHarris at 10:19 PM on January 26 [6 favorites]
I agree that it is leading with a conclusion, and hyperbolic. In this moment I'll take it as rhetoric to counter the gloss with which Musk has hyped himself. How much of Musk's previous hagiography was real and confused and how much was a ruse (Abramson feels completely certain it was all a ruse) ....
it's clear that the authoritarianism goes back to old lessons learned in Pretoria, and there have been signs all along. the central thesis holds, even if the prose is purple
Contrast this with Robert Evans BtB script from 2020, for example. Evans gave Musk all the credit for not serving in the Apartheid military. There are times when Evans gave Musk the benefit of the doubt, which I think he would likely retract in retrospect.
posted by eustatic at 10:37 PM on January 26 [4 favorites]
it's clear that the authoritarianism goes back to old lessons learned in Pretoria, and there have been signs all along. the central thesis holds, even if the prose is purple
Contrast this with Robert Evans BtB script from 2020, for example. Evans gave Musk all the credit for not serving in the Apartheid military. There are times when Evans gave Musk the benefit of the doubt, which I think he would likely retract in retrospect.
posted by eustatic at 10:37 PM on January 26 [4 favorites]
“We all [white South Africans], by the very nature of our privileges and our place in the racial hierarchy, grew up believing we were the master race, even if we didn’t actively think about it,”
This I believe. I wasn't in South Africa until long after 1990, but I knew white South Africans then, and they had to be very deliberate and conscious to beat down the ingrown racism (I knew some who did and others who didn't).
I've been wondering why this wasn't brought up more in recent years and even more so now, already before the Nazi salute thing.
The article is also a good reminder that all of these tech bros come from positions of privilege, they are not self made and they have not done well because they were smarter than us. Just the same as Trump himself.
posted by mumimor at 12:20 AM on January 27 [20 favorites]
This I believe. I wasn't in South Africa until long after 1990, but I knew white South Africans then, and they had to be very deliberate and conscious to beat down the ingrown racism (I knew some who did and others who didn't).
I've been wondering why this wasn't brought up more in recent years and even more so now, already before the Nazi salute thing.
The article is also a good reminder that all of these tech bros come from positions of privilege, they are not self made and they have not done well because they were smarter than us. Just the same as Trump himself.
posted by mumimor at 12:20 AM on January 27 [20 favorites]
From the Financial Times:
Elon Musk lived in apartheid South Africa until he was 17. David Sacks, the venture capitalist who has become a fundraiser for Donald Trump and a troll of Ukraine, left aged five, and grew up in a South African diaspora family in Tennessee. Peter Thiel spent years of childhood in South Africa and Namibia, where his father was involved in uranium mining as part of the apartheid regime’s clandestine drive to acquire nuclear weapons. And Paul Furber, an obscure South African software developer and tech journalist living near Johannesburg, has been identified by two teams of forensic linguists as the originator of the QAnon conspiracy, which helped shape Trump’s Maga movement. (Furber denies being “Q”.)....posted by Violet Blue at 1:11 AM on January 27 [40 favorites]
In short, four of Maga’s most influential voices are fiftysomething white men with formative experiences in apartheid South Africa.
I don't mean to post endlessly, but I've gotten caught up sleuthing who, exactly, has been covering the MAGA-South Africa links.
From South Africa's Daily Maverick:
Billionaire Patrick Soon-Shiong the owner of the LA Times blocked a Harris endorsement this year. Lo and behold, he is from Gqeberha, South Africa!
From South Africa's Daily Maverick:
Billionaire Patrick Soon-Shiong the owner of the LA Times blocked a Harris endorsement this year. Lo and behold, he is from Gqeberha, South Africa!
Soon-Shiong previously told the National Museum of American History: “Growing up in apartheid South Africa, we were always the underdogs. My black friends were always the underdogs. It gave me insight into the dignity and strength of the underdog. So part of what [wife] Michele and I do, consciously or unconsciously, is always fight for the underdogs in this country and for ourselves.”Breitbart News, however, had no such fear.
Amid outrage about the threat to media freedom posed by a newspaper baron overruling his own editors’ political choices, Soon-Shiong’s daughter Nika [attributed it to] the Biden administration’s support for Israel’s war in Gaza – something her father denied was true.... [T]he concern was ... a fear [of] revenge ... if [Trump] won the election.
Its “senior editor at large” is Cape Town boy Joel Pollak, formerly [South African politician] Tony Leon’s speechwriter, who at one stage was being considered by the first Trump administration for ambassador to South Africa.posted by Violet Blue at 1:39 AM on January 27 [11 favorites]
Pollak has been busy. In July 2024, in what was interpreted by some as a fairly transparent attempt to win a spot in the second Trump administration, Pollak launched a book – published by the notorious Steve Bannon – titled The Agenda: What Trump Should Do In his First 100 Days.
Pollak’s book recommends stopping even legal immigration to the US until the immigration system is reformed; proposes that the White House hold daily Bible study events; wants a task force set up to “promote childbearing”; and suggests that the decision on whether IVF is legally permissible in the US should be outsourced to a Trump-established ethics panel.
dunno much about apartheid, but TIL: "In 1953 the Nats were reelected. They outlawed missionary schools like the one young Nelson [Mandela] had attended, because these schools taught black children the same way that white children were taught—in other words, they treated them like equals. The government passed an education act: All black children would be taught that they were inferior to whites and only good for serving them. A black child was taught just enough to become a janitor or house worker."
posted by kliuless at 2:46 AM on January 27 [9 favorites]
posted by kliuless at 2:46 AM on January 27 [9 favorites]
I'm a white South African, living in Cape Town, and am mos Afrikaans, nogal, born in 1972 so slightly younger than Musk.
I think it is significant that he left in 88, when the violence against anti-apartheid protestors was very much in the news, and before transition to the "New South Africa". Musk apparently has stated that he is not an Afrikaner, but that his heritage is British. He went to Pretoria Boys high, an English medium school that is very much influenced by British culture and prejudices.
I'm the opposite kind of white South African from him, I'm also not an Afrikaner, I'm Afrikaans. I reject the racist history of cultural appropriation where the white supremacist National Party created a fake cultural history of Afrikaans as being a white language, and Afrikaners as being a superior race.
Because of this, I kind of doubt that Musk would be interested in the AWB or align with them. The AWB were incredibly, deeply uncool. Some people are attracted to the Nazis because they see a certain elegance and style there, the AWB were not that. Musk is a very familiar kind of white South African, English speaking, aligning himself with Britain, and scorning Afrikaans speaking people ( like the AWB). To him, I'd guess, the AWB would very likely be dumb, crude, low class white trash. There is a class hierarchy as well as a language hierarchy, with English being at the top.
I think that Musk being a South Africa must have shaped who he is today, but I'd guess that the history of racist and white supremacist colonial Britain is probably a stronger influence on him, than the AWB.
posted by Zumbador at 4:32 AM on January 27 [29 favorites]
I think it is significant that he left in 88, when the violence against anti-apartheid protestors was very much in the news, and before transition to the "New South Africa". Musk apparently has stated that he is not an Afrikaner, but that his heritage is British. He went to Pretoria Boys high, an English medium school that is very much influenced by British culture and prejudices.
I'm the opposite kind of white South African from him, I'm also not an Afrikaner, I'm Afrikaans. I reject the racist history of cultural appropriation where the white supremacist National Party created a fake cultural history of Afrikaans as being a white language, and Afrikaners as being a superior race.
Because of this, I kind of doubt that Musk would be interested in the AWB or align with them. The AWB were incredibly, deeply uncool. Some people are attracted to the Nazis because they see a certain elegance and style there, the AWB were not that. Musk is a very familiar kind of white South African, English speaking, aligning himself with Britain, and scorning Afrikaans speaking people ( like the AWB). To him, I'd guess, the AWB would very likely be dumb, crude, low class white trash. There is a class hierarchy as well as a language hierarchy, with English being at the top.
I think that Musk being a South Africa must have shaped who he is today, but I'd guess that the history of racist and white supremacist colonial Britain is probably a stronger influence on him, than the AWB.
posted by Zumbador at 4:32 AM on January 27 [29 favorites]
With apologies, for those of us ignorant of how Afrikaner vs Afrikaans is defined, could you explain?
posted by Violet Blue at 4:48 AM on January 27 [1 favorite]
posted by Violet Blue at 4:48 AM on January 27 [1 favorite]
Violet Blue I'm sure that different South Africans will give you different answers to that question, but for me (and most people I know of my generation) Afrikaans means simply that I speak Afrikaans as my first language. There are many different kinds of Afrikaanse people of many different races and political persuasions. There is definitely a cultural aspect, but it's complex and fuzzy what it exactly means.
Afrikaner is a very specific cultural identity, seized on by the National party in the 1940s as a way to create a patriotic "in-group" identity. Whites, descended from the Dutch settlers and French Huguenots who arrived in South Africa in the seventeenth century, and also strongly tied to the Voortrekkers, the white farmers rebelled against the British occupation of the Cape in the nineteenth century by fleeing north. They were also the boere (farmers) who fought the Boer War against the British, and were imprisoned in the first concentration camps by the British.
The National Party created a cultural identity pretty much from scratch, gathering up folk songs and stories from any number of other cultures and white washing them as "Afrikaner Culture". This was what I was taught in school as my heritage.
The history of the concentration camps - which was a genuine war crime - became twisted into a justification of crimes of Apartheid, a rallying point for white supremacist Afrikaners and central to their identity. Afrikaners see themselves as eternal victims, under siege from the outside by the colonist oppressive British, and from the inside by the Swart Gevaar (Black Danger).
I'm a descendant of the French Huguenots myself, my surname would make some think I'm an Afrikaner, but I reject the racist and patriarchal legacy of that label. On the other hand, Afrikaans is my first language, I'm not English, although I speak that language. I'm white, but I am African - a citizen of an African country. Although my ancestors are from Germany, France and Holland, I don't feel any link to those countries.
posted by Zumbador at 6:09 AM on January 27 [35 favorites]
Afrikaner is a very specific cultural identity, seized on by the National party in the 1940s as a way to create a patriotic "in-group" identity. Whites, descended from the Dutch settlers and French Huguenots who arrived in South Africa in the seventeenth century, and also strongly tied to the Voortrekkers, the white farmers rebelled against the British occupation of the Cape in the nineteenth century by fleeing north. They were also the boere (farmers) who fought the Boer War against the British, and were imprisoned in the first concentration camps by the British.
The National Party created a cultural identity pretty much from scratch, gathering up folk songs and stories from any number of other cultures and white washing them as "Afrikaner Culture". This was what I was taught in school as my heritage.
The history of the concentration camps - which was a genuine war crime - became twisted into a justification of crimes of Apartheid, a rallying point for white supremacist Afrikaners and central to their identity. Afrikaners see themselves as eternal victims, under siege from the outside by the colonist oppressive British, and from the inside by the Swart Gevaar (Black Danger).
I'm a descendant of the French Huguenots myself, my surname would make some think I'm an Afrikaner, but I reject the racist and patriarchal legacy of that label. On the other hand, Afrikaans is my first language, I'm not English, although I speak that language. I'm white, but I am African - a citizen of an African country. Although my ancestors are from Germany, France and Holland, I don't feel any link to those countries.
posted by Zumbador at 6:09 AM on January 27 [35 favorites]
Someone asked what the DNC had to do with the rise of the techfascists in political space. People sometimes cite the sidelining of the debates in 2016 and Obama's urging Buttegieg to drop out in 2020 to make the nominations of Hillary and Joe more likely when Sanders was gaining ground at both times. The lack of a clear program on many fronts has emboldened the right and we witness the result now.
posted by interglossa at 6:09 AM on January 27 [8 favorites]
posted by interglossa at 6:09 AM on January 27 [8 favorites]
Bringing up the DNC is definitely a derail.
That said, I do think that Democrats' desire to change the world for the better without rocking the boat re: capital/equality has caused us to naively put our faith in things we just assumed were an unalloyed good that would quietly help get us there in the end, like technology. Musk built his fortune on electric cars and space rockets. How could the development of either not be considered progress? Heck, even Star Trek--the quintessential vision of Fully Automated Luxury Gay Space Communism--decided to namedrop Musk as a visionary and until recently people right here on the Blue were touting Musk's environmental bonafides and crediting him with having single-handedly built the EV market.
But it turns out that fascists really like rockets and battery-powered cars too, and I think we were blindsided by our assumption that the march of technology was an adequate proxy for the arc of progress.
posted by RonButNotStupid at 11:03 AM on January 27 [8 favorites]
That said, I do think that Democrats' desire to change the world for the better without rocking the boat re: capital/equality has caused us to naively put our faith in things we just assumed were an unalloyed good that would quietly help get us there in the end, like technology. Musk built his fortune on electric cars and space rockets. How could the development of either not be considered progress? Heck, even Star Trek--the quintessential vision of Fully Automated Luxury Gay Space Communism--decided to namedrop Musk as a visionary and until recently people right here on the Blue were touting Musk's environmental bonafides and crediting him with having single-handedly built the EV market.
But it turns out that fascists really like rockets and battery-powered cars too, and I think we were blindsided by our assumption that the march of technology was an adequate proxy for the arc of progress.
posted by RonButNotStupid at 11:03 AM on January 27 [8 favorites]
Institutional Democrats - of which the DNC is a fairly minor cog - labored greatly to build up Silicon Valley’s influence over politics, and impunity from influence from outside forces, out of an utter conviction that all those billionaires would stick with them no matter what. 2020 entrenched this conviction with big tech falling quickly into line with COVID shutdowns, BLM, and censoring pro-Trump content, and so when major Silicon Valley players reconsidered its their self-interest last year the Democrats were utterly unprepared for it.
posted by MattD at 11:56 AM on January 27 [3 favorites]
posted by MattD at 11:56 AM on January 27 [3 favorites]
censoring pro-Trump content
Citation needed.
posted by rhamphorhynchus at 12:29 PM on January 27 [7 favorites]
Citation needed.
posted by rhamphorhynchus at 12:29 PM on January 27 [7 favorites]
Bill Gates calls Elon Musk’s embrace of far-right politicians abroad ‘insane shit’ [Guardian]
posted by RonButNotStupid at 1:07 PM on January 27 [4 favorites]
posted by RonButNotStupid at 1:07 PM on January 27 [4 favorites]
I found this interesting in that Guardian article:
"Gates added that he met Trump more frequently during his first term as president than he did Joe Biden during his Oval Office tenure. He said: “I had a lot of times when I would go to the White House and they would say, ‘We think you are going to see President Biden today,’ but six times in a row it didn’t happen,” adding that he was instead invited to meet the national security adviser, Jake Sullivan, or other staff."
Why would you invite Gates to the White House half a dozen times to meet with Biden only to fob him off with a staffer ?
posted by yyz at 2:15 PM on January 27 [3 favorites]
"Gates added that he met Trump more frequently during his first term as president than he did Joe Biden during his Oval Office tenure. He said: “I had a lot of times when I would go to the White House and they would say, ‘We think you are going to see President Biden today,’ but six times in a row it didn’t happen,” adding that he was instead invited to meet the national security adviser, Jake Sullivan, or other staff."
Why would you invite Gates to the White House half a dozen times to meet with Biden only to fob him off with a staffer ?
posted by yyz at 2:15 PM on January 27 [3 favorites]
I was born in South Africa and I am slightly younger than Elon Musk. My ancestors were the 1820 Settlers so I was born to the British side (vs the Afrikaner side) that he claims to identify with. It was glorious - if you didn't think about the lives of the servants and most South Africans. Just being a white male meant you got it all handed to you by other white males, you oozed privilege without being aware of it. Everything around you affirmed that you more than deserved it.
You went to beautiful schools, museums, botanical gardens, monuments, and events where you were surrounded by more white people, with totally invisible servants everywhere. Your house was cleaned by many servants that were careful to barely be seen, in the cheap uniforms that you provided them, eating cheap or leftover food, only allowed to use the outside servants toilet, paid a pittance with zero benefits, and they could be fired on your whim. Cheap labour was infinitely available so you could build anything or run any business you wanted, exploitation was totally normal. You might even say you're definitely not racist because of that one Indian friend or black person from the US you knew who was obviously different from most of the South Africans.
I saw all of this, but I am not male. The sexism was stifling - no opinions for you and get that man a drink now, be at the door to greet the master of the house when he comes home from work, look pretty, laugh at their jokes, the old men who grope at you are paying you a compliment, don't get too educated as you only need to be able to help the children with homework but not to think for yourself. The women of South Africa were playthings for the men, support characters, breeding stock, good virgins then good wives who tolerated whatever your man wanted. And with all the older women to enforce all of it (Why is it always like that?).
I had a bad habit that I would highly recommend - I read a lot and across many categories, 10 library cards and more each week and nobody ever checked up on what I was reading. I saw the sexism then the racism and more, and I refused to go along with it and left after I got my education. The liberal daughter who doesn't respect her elders or past, who should be grateful but isn't.
I know what Elon Musk longs for, and it's wretched for everyone except white males. The same white males who worldwide seem to have been implicitly promised someone to always be superior too and use as they wish (their good wife), good jobs and money and fancy cars, and are now very pissed that they have joined the giant public pool of people with no special privileges and are expected to wash the dishes and help raise children since their wife likely also works. These whiny pathetic wanna-be-masters-of-the-house and can just fuck off forever.
posted by meepmeow at 3:26 PM on January 27 [51 favorites]
You went to beautiful schools, museums, botanical gardens, monuments, and events where you were surrounded by more white people, with totally invisible servants everywhere. Your house was cleaned by many servants that were careful to barely be seen, in the cheap uniforms that you provided them, eating cheap or leftover food, only allowed to use the outside servants toilet, paid a pittance with zero benefits, and they could be fired on your whim. Cheap labour was infinitely available so you could build anything or run any business you wanted, exploitation was totally normal. You might even say you're definitely not racist because of that one Indian friend or black person from the US you knew who was obviously different from most of the South Africans.
I saw all of this, but I am not male. The sexism was stifling - no opinions for you and get that man a drink now, be at the door to greet the master of the house when he comes home from work, look pretty, laugh at their jokes, the old men who grope at you are paying you a compliment, don't get too educated as you only need to be able to help the children with homework but not to think for yourself. The women of South Africa were playthings for the men, support characters, breeding stock, good virgins then good wives who tolerated whatever your man wanted. And with all the older women to enforce all of it (Why is it always like that?).
I had a bad habit that I would highly recommend - I read a lot and across many categories, 10 library cards and more each week and nobody ever checked up on what I was reading. I saw the sexism then the racism and more, and I refused to go along with it and left after I got my education. The liberal daughter who doesn't respect her elders or past, who should be grateful but isn't.
I know what Elon Musk longs for, and it's wretched for everyone except white males. The same white males who worldwide seem to have been implicitly promised someone to always be superior too and use as they wish (their good wife), good jobs and money and fancy cars, and are now very pissed that they have joined the giant public pool of people with no special privileges and are expected to wash the dishes and help raise children since their wife likely also works. These whiny pathetic wanna-be-masters-of-the-house and can just fuck off forever.
posted by meepmeow at 3:26 PM on January 27 [51 favorites]
One more link just for Kliuless: Interestingly, South African tech types ended up in the U.S. at least in part because gold mine engineers from California went to work in South Africa more than a century ago. Their time there inspired the powers that be to create a better educational system for white kids.
Prior to their visit, a limited number of black kids (like Mandela) were, indeed, being given some education at missionary schools, but white kids weren’t receiving any education at all. Once that deficit became clear, it was decided that white kids needed to be educated, generally, and, in particular, they needed more technical education. That emphasis eventually led to the complete loss of missionary education for black children, and the creation of an educational system with special focus on physics, math and early IT for white children.
The South African economy hummed along for several more decades, as a result, until 1971 when Nixon depegged the dollar from the gold standard, and the need for South African gold, and therefore its economy, suddenly took an unexpected hit. Not that many years later, a small exodus of South Africans like Musk enrolled in American colleges to build on their technical skills and, not incidentally, avoid conscription. Some initially went into finance, others like the PayPal Mafia went directly into IT.
posted by Violet Blue at 5:28 PM on January 27 [7 favorites]
Prior to their visit, a limited number of black kids (like Mandela) were, indeed, being given some education at missionary schools, but white kids weren’t receiving any education at all. Once that deficit became clear, it was decided that white kids needed to be educated, generally, and, in particular, they needed more technical education. That emphasis eventually led to the complete loss of missionary education for black children, and the creation of an educational system with special focus on physics, math and early IT for white children.
The South African economy hummed along for several more decades, as a result, until 1971 when Nixon depegged the dollar from the gold standard, and the need for South African gold, and therefore its economy, suddenly took an unexpected hit. Not that many years later, a small exodus of South Africans like Musk enrolled in American colleges to build on their technical skills and, not incidentally, avoid conscription. Some initially went into finance, others like the PayPal Mafia went directly into IT.
posted by Violet Blue at 5:28 PM on January 27 [7 favorites]
Recently, I listened to Ezra Klein's interview of Jake Sullivan and it convinced me that Sullivan was doing a lot of the heavy lifting for Biden in an executive capacity, so I'm not surprised Gates was redirected to Sullivan. The Sullivan interview was a sobering window into what probably really happened behind the scenes.
posted by effluvia at 5:35 PM on January 27 [5 favorites]
posted by effluvia at 5:35 PM on January 27 [5 favorites]
What a coincidence Fully Automated Luxury Gay Space Communism is the name of my new album
posted by St. Peepsburg at 7:11 PM on January 27
posted by St. Peepsburg at 7:11 PM on January 27
I came across this Reddit post, wherein a longtime ex-friend and ex-colleague of Musk’s, Philip Low, shares his view that the motivation behind the salute is mostly strategic — a means of manipulating populists to further entrench his power, money, and fame — and partly anarchic (for shits and giggles). I would imagine though that ideological motivations wouldn’t necessarily have been shared with Low.
posted by cotton dress sock at 11:30 PM on January 27 [8 favorites]
posted by cotton dress sock at 11:30 PM on January 27 [8 favorites]
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posted by flabdablet at 7:31 PM on January 26 [13 favorites]