Breaking the Unspoken Contract
February 2, 2025 11:42 AM Subscribe
How Weight-Loss Drugs Can Upend a Marriage. (SLNYT) "At the table, in front of the fire, the tension between them rose, as if recalling the fight reignited it. Javier prickled that Jeanne took offense. “I’m her husband,” Javier said, looking at me. “I’m her partner.” He looked at Jeanne. “I’ve supported you in this path.” Why, he asked her, would he say anything to intentionally hurt her? For Javier, it felt as if the changes in their family were happening too fast — that their marriage was in a tenuous place. Suddenly, he felt, Jeanne held all the cards and their future wasn’t “up to him.”...
"...Jeanne grew subdued as Javier pressed on. What about their son? he asked. Had she heard him say he wants to try weight-loss drugs? And there, in the cheerful hubbub of the restaurant, the crack between them widened."
"...Jeanne grew subdued as Javier pressed on. What about their son? he asked. Had she heard him say he wants to try weight-loss drugs? And there, in the cheerful hubbub of the restaurant, the crack between them widened."
While this definitely had some NYT-isms (check out that 200-bottle wine cellar!), I thought this was really interesting. The beginning of it had me worrying the story would be "husband tries to control wife," but it was actually a deeper, broader, and in a lot of ways sadder story than that, especially once you add all the couples together.
Still, I feel very cautious about "this medication changes lives, and thus must have a dark side," around the same time these meds become more widely available to people who aren't rich. A lot of us would be willing to take the risk that our relationships would require some additional thinking and work, if it meant we could be around longer and more healthy with our loved ones.
posted by mittens at 12:51 PM on February 2 [14 favorites]
Still, I feel very cautious about "this medication changes lives, and thus must have a dark side," around the same time these meds become more widely available to people who aren't rich. A lot of us would be willing to take the risk that our relationships would require some additional thinking and work, if it meant we could be around longer and more healthy with our loved ones.
posted by mittens at 12:51 PM on February 2 [14 favorites]
There's so much here that is interesting to me. I've newly joined MeFi after lurking awhile, and I am honestly a little worried of expressing things wrong or having a hurtful impact somehow in my analysis of this. This just seems like a conversation that MeFi may have norms around that I don't yet recognize. Please assume a respectful and empathetic intention to my words, but that doesn't mean I am resistant to different perspectives or learning about blind spots in my thinking, either.
I have lost dramatic amounts of weight (around 40 pounds) twice in my marriage, and sustained that weight loss for a long time each time. There was fallout for my marriage both times. I don't want to talk too much about that, but reading this article was extremely interesting in light of it.
I have also lost a child with my husband, and been on the receiving end of so many comments indicating that we are 50% more likely to get divorced because of that, or whatever. I have not read the linked study yet, but I am a bit skeptical that the divorce statistics referenced can be reliably tied to the use of weight loss medication specifically. Like I said, I've experienced the way a big weight loss can have unexpected negative impacts on a relationship (influencing the thoughts and behavior of both partners), but I think the bigger story here is more about weight-related biases, fatphobia, and a feeling by some people that it is "not fair" or "cheating" to lose weight via medication.
One of the things that really sticks out is the husband who retreats to his "collection" of Peloton machines and maintains a resting heart rate of 45, making an offhand comment about his concern about his son thinking weight loss is "as easy as taking a pill." I also wonder how much time the stay at home parent of a teenager spends with his "collection" of Peloton machines while his wife is at work and his teenager is at school. I have a lot of questions about the relationship dynamic otherwise, especially in light of wife's notes that she hadn't been wanting to have sex, is expanding her ability to hold her boundaries, and appears more self-confident. Was this relationship actually good before? Was husband essentially a hobosexual and wife lacked self-confidence to push back? Is weight loss the trigger for the challenges, or is wife's increasing self-confidence causing her to assert boundaries regarding bad behavior she previously tolerated? I see some things in the article to suspect that.
Despite his overt denial of it, I wonder if he has an unconsciously held belief system that does assign moral value to thinness obtained by "hard work" versus other means - a medication, illness, whatever. I think that's not an uncommon belief system, some people express it overtly and even cruelly. Some people (a little bit similarly to implicit racial bias) know they should not think that way and will tell you they don't. And while they believe they are honest, nevertheless there's that assumption behind their conscious thoughts. Perhaps in his mind, his wife is 'cheating' by taking the pill and not, therefore, worthy of respect.
I really had big emotions about the wife's experiences post weight-loss forcing her to confront a lot of the fatphobia and mistreatment including having work opportunities that she had already been qualified for offered only post-weight loss. I wonder if husband is sympathetic to or recognizes that.
A therapist doesn't suggest a spouse look at divorce lawyers lightly, so that makes me wonder if wife had been complaining about some of the issues I'm alluding to.
I've spent a lot of time talking critically about the husband. I experienced changes in the way I behaved after big weight loss that may not have been healthy and may have contributed to unkind relationship behavior. I don't see as much in what is said of the wife to make me think she is doing those things.
In any event, if the walk away thought is that doctors prescribing these medications might encourage some kind of therapy or help or education for people on how dynamics can change when one partner loses a lot of weight ... that seems like a good thing.
posted by fennario at 12:51 PM on February 2 [67 favorites]
I have lost dramatic amounts of weight (around 40 pounds) twice in my marriage, and sustained that weight loss for a long time each time. There was fallout for my marriage both times. I don't want to talk too much about that, but reading this article was extremely interesting in light of it.
I have also lost a child with my husband, and been on the receiving end of so many comments indicating that we are 50% more likely to get divorced because of that, or whatever. I have not read the linked study yet, but I am a bit skeptical that the divorce statistics referenced can be reliably tied to the use of weight loss medication specifically. Like I said, I've experienced the way a big weight loss can have unexpected negative impacts on a relationship (influencing the thoughts and behavior of both partners), but I think the bigger story here is more about weight-related biases, fatphobia, and a feeling by some people that it is "not fair" or "cheating" to lose weight via medication.
One of the things that really sticks out is the husband who retreats to his "collection" of Peloton machines and maintains a resting heart rate of 45, making an offhand comment about his concern about his son thinking weight loss is "as easy as taking a pill." I also wonder how much time the stay at home parent of a teenager spends with his "collection" of Peloton machines while his wife is at work and his teenager is at school. I have a lot of questions about the relationship dynamic otherwise, especially in light of wife's notes that she hadn't been wanting to have sex, is expanding her ability to hold her boundaries, and appears more self-confident. Was this relationship actually good before? Was husband essentially a hobosexual and wife lacked self-confidence to push back? Is weight loss the trigger for the challenges, or is wife's increasing self-confidence causing her to assert boundaries regarding bad behavior she previously tolerated? I see some things in the article to suspect that.
Despite his overt denial of it, I wonder if he has an unconsciously held belief system that does assign moral value to thinness obtained by "hard work" versus other means - a medication, illness, whatever. I think that's not an uncommon belief system, some people express it overtly and even cruelly. Some people (a little bit similarly to implicit racial bias) know they should not think that way and will tell you they don't. And while they believe they are honest, nevertheless there's that assumption behind their conscious thoughts. Perhaps in his mind, his wife is 'cheating' by taking the pill and not, therefore, worthy of respect.
I really had big emotions about the wife's experiences post weight-loss forcing her to confront a lot of the fatphobia and mistreatment including having work opportunities that she had already been qualified for offered only post-weight loss. I wonder if husband is sympathetic to or recognizes that.
A therapist doesn't suggest a spouse look at divorce lawyers lightly, so that makes me wonder if wife had been complaining about some of the issues I'm alluding to.
I've spent a lot of time talking critically about the husband. I experienced changes in the way I behaved after big weight loss that may not have been healthy and may have contributed to unkind relationship behavior. I don't see as much in what is said of the wife to make me think she is doing those things.
In any event, if the walk away thought is that doctors prescribing these medications might encourage some kind of therapy or help or education for people on how dynamics can change when one partner loses a lot of weight ... that seems like a good thing.
posted by fennario at 12:51 PM on February 2 [67 favorites]
Yes, to be clear - I found the material in article as a whole interesting and filled with nuance, and if therapy is soon advised for people taking the drugs that seems good and likely needed as fennario suggests - but I also picked up on the undercurrent of "this medication changes lives, and thus must have a dark side" that mittens points too above, and that seemed unhelpful.
posted by coffeecat at 1:07 PM on February 2 [5 favorites]
posted by coffeecat at 1:07 PM on February 2 [5 favorites]
I agree completely that there is an undercurrent of "this medication changes lives, and thus must have a dark side" in the article and that this is problematic and should be brought to light head on.
I feel that we saw similar about bariatric surgery. Sometimes, often, procedures or medications or solutions marketed to people who want to lose weight have been in fact very dangerous (fen-phen, for example). But I think there is also a really deeply entrenched societal belief that there's a moral failing associated with being fat and using a medication or surgery to lose weight is "cheating" and needs to be in some way essentially policed by bad public opinion or otherwise delegitimized. After all, if anyone can be skinny how can 'we' assign a moral and societal superiority to being skinny? So it has to be discouraged on some grounds and this article presents, IMO, very thin grounds.
posted by fennario at 2:09 PM on February 2 [20 favorites]
I feel that we saw similar about bariatric surgery. Sometimes, often, procedures or medications or solutions marketed to people who want to lose weight have been in fact very dangerous (fen-phen, for example). But I think there is also a really deeply entrenched societal belief that there's a moral failing associated with being fat and using a medication or surgery to lose weight is "cheating" and needs to be in some way essentially policed by bad public opinion or otherwise delegitimized. After all, if anyone can be skinny how can 'we' assign a moral and societal superiority to being skinny? So it has to be discouraged on some grounds and this article presents, IMO, very thin grounds.
posted by fennario at 2:09 PM on February 2 [20 favorites]
as easy as taking a pill
Weird how nobody ever frets about whether getting rid of a headache should be as easy as taking a pill. Of course it should. That’s the point of pills. What is it you think fat people deserve to be punished for?
posted by Horace Rumpole at 2:20 PM on February 2 [38 favorites]
Weird how nobody ever frets about whether getting rid of a headache should be as easy as taking a pill. Of course it should. That’s the point of pills. What is it you think fat people deserve to be punished for?
posted by Horace Rumpole at 2:20 PM on February 2 [38 favorites]
I feel that we saw similar about bariatric surgery.
With the added bonus there of, "Let's see if you can lose enough weight through willpower alone to deserve the surgery!"
(My PCP's office keeps a picture of Dr. Now from My 600-Pound Life by their scales, with a little quip admonishing you for lying about your weight.)
posted by mittens at 3:45 PM on February 2 [4 favorites]
With the added bonus there of, "Let's see if you can lose enough weight through willpower alone to deserve the surgery!"
(My PCP's office keeps a picture of Dr. Now from My 600-Pound Life by their scales, with a little quip admonishing you for lying about your weight.)
posted by mittens at 3:45 PM on February 2 [4 favorites]
All medication that changes lives has a dark side, even the really good shit. Something that really stayed with me reading about advances in cystic fibrosis treatment was a comment from a person with cystic fibrosis about their struggle to deal with the vast future that now lay in front of them, and their unpreparedness for it, because they had been resigned to a short life with a painful end and this was no longer true.
posted by i_am_joe's_spleen at 3:47 PM on February 2 [11 favorites]
posted by i_am_joe's_spleen at 3:47 PM on February 2 [11 favorites]
.Weird how nobody ever frets about whether getting rid of a headache should be as easy as taking a pill. Of course it should.
It's like debt/loan forgiveness; "If I have to it the hard way and suffer, everybody else should, too"
posted by Pastor of Muppets at 3:47 PM on February 2 [12 favorites]
It's like debt/loan forgiveness; "If I have to it the hard way and suffer, everybody else should, too"
posted by Pastor of Muppets at 3:47 PM on February 2 [12 favorites]
A 29-year-old woman from the South described how losing almost 60 pounds has made her feel suddenly encumbered by her older husband. Now that she feels more attractive and more her own age, her husband — with his overhanging belly and elderly grandmother in need of constant care — holds less appeal, and she is distracted by an ongoing flirtation with a family friend. A lawyer in Washington State left her husband after losing 50 pounds on Zepbound. It dawned on her that her bigger body gave him “a sense of security”: He liked that she did not feel confident or attractive, she told me. “He was like: ‘Cool. She’s not going to leave me.’”
Reading this article reminded of that quote, I think attributed to the comedian Chris Rock (paraphrased here to be gender neutral), that every person is as faithful as their available options.
The portions about some weight loss drugs having libido reducing effects excepted (which I can definitely see causing friction in otherwise happy relationships), it seems like the author almost missed the theme of her own article. Reading the sampling of examples from this piece, it seems like a more accurate description could be, “Effect of weight loss drugs gives some users the confidence to confronts aspects of their lives they haven’t been happy with for a long time”. The primary couple featured in this article have a marriage that is clearly in a fragile state, but the weight loss drugs are a symptom, not a cause.
posted by The Gooch at 4:08 PM on February 2 [17 favorites]
Reading this article reminded of that quote, I think attributed to the comedian Chris Rock (paraphrased here to be gender neutral), that every person is as faithful as their available options.
The portions about some weight loss drugs having libido reducing effects excepted (which I can definitely see causing friction in otherwise happy relationships), it seems like the author almost missed the theme of her own article. Reading the sampling of examples from this piece, it seems like a more accurate description could be, “Effect of weight loss drugs gives some users the confidence to confronts aspects of their lives they haven’t been happy with for a long time”. The primary couple featured in this article have a marriage that is clearly in a fragile state, but the weight loss drugs are a symptom, not a cause.
posted by The Gooch at 4:08 PM on February 2 [17 favorites]
Was just musing that I have read things that suggest that these drugs are doing deep and weird shit to our sense of reward and reinforcement, that they have impacts on eg addictions and gambling behaviour and so on. So it would not be surprising that some relationships founder because a thing you used to like or want or find reinforcing from your partner doesn't hit the same any more. (This is not to discount the profound effects of losing weight in our heavily fat-phobic society, but perhaps an additional and different stress).
posted by i_am_joe's_spleen at 4:36 PM on February 2 [4 favorites]
posted by i_am_joe's_spleen at 4:36 PM on February 2 [4 favorites]
I wonder if he has an unconsciously held belief system that does assign moral value to thinness obtained by "hard work" versus other means
Absolutely he does. This was very clear to me by the end of the article.
Along with the other aspects mentioned, I feel very resentful that the world (so far as I perceive it) would prefer that I stayed chubby and uncomfortable and fugly and always hungry, and tired from working out while hungry, and stuck in the belief that it's my fault for being lazy and not disciplined. That way it could keep me in my place, the levers to push me down were clear and present. "They" would rather I be unhappy. I don't have a place this anger comes out, and it's faded (been a few years for me now) but I can imagine if I felt someone close to me was a true-calorie believer ... I would contribute to problems in that relationship. It's a lifetime of deep.
(It is so nice not being hungry and hangry all the time).
Another thing that struck me was the casual mentions of divorce, like Checkov's gun. I'm a cynical sarcastic human, but my husband asked me long ago not to ever joke about divorce, and I don't. He's 100% right.
posted by Dashy at 5:27 PM on February 2 [15 favorites]
Absolutely he does. This was very clear to me by the end of the article.
Along with the other aspects mentioned, I feel very resentful that the world (so far as I perceive it) would prefer that I stayed chubby and uncomfortable and fugly and always hungry, and tired from working out while hungry, and stuck in the belief that it's my fault for being lazy and not disciplined. That way it could keep me in my place, the levers to push me down were clear and present. "They" would rather I be unhappy. I don't have a place this anger comes out, and it's faded (been a few years for me now) but I can imagine if I felt someone close to me was a true-calorie believer ... I would contribute to problems in that relationship. It's a lifetime of deep.
(It is so nice not being hungry and hangry all the time).
Another thing that struck me was the casual mentions of divorce, like Checkov's gun. I'm a cynical sarcastic human, but my husband asked me long ago not to ever joke about divorce, and I don't. He's 100% right.
posted by Dashy at 5:27 PM on February 2 [15 favorites]
Weird how nobody ever frets about whether getting rid of a headache should be as easy as taking a pill. Of course it should. That’s the point of pills. What is it you think fat people deserve to be punished for?
So this isn’t an equivalent situation. You’d be more apt to say SSRIs or something that requires sustained taking. And SSRIs can be a nightmare to come off of with increasing evidence of lifelong side effects (conveniently dismissed as paranoia/other things by doctors).
Weight loss drugs are not something you take once or for a short time and are done. People regain weight when they stop these drugs. I know there are many possible side effects just like there are for most drugs that alter your chemistry.
None of that is discouraging anyone from using it, the same way I take an SSRI and was aware (mostly) of the risks. But please do take the risks of any medication seriously and don’t compare it to a dose of Tylenol.
posted by OnTheLastCastle at 7:26 PM on February 2 [2 favorites]
So this isn’t an equivalent situation. You’d be more apt to say SSRIs or something that requires sustained taking. And SSRIs can be a nightmare to come off of with increasing evidence of lifelong side effects (conveniently dismissed as paranoia/other things by doctors).
Weight loss drugs are not something you take once or for a short time and are done. People regain weight when they stop these drugs. I know there are many possible side effects just like there are for most drugs that alter your chemistry.
None of that is discouraging anyone from using it, the same way I take an SSRI and was aware (mostly) of the risks. But please do take the risks of any medication seriously and don’t compare it to a dose of Tylenol.
posted by OnTheLastCastle at 7:26 PM on February 2 [2 favorites]
Mod note: I've newly joined MeFi after lurking awhile, and I am honestly a little worried of expressing things wrong or having a hurtful impact somehow in my analysis of this.
Hi fennario and welcome to MetaFilter! While I understand being a bit nervous in a new situation, your contributions to the thread are really thoughtful and a great addition to MetaFiler.
Yes there are some nuances to the site’s culture, but nothing too terrible and again, your contributions here have been great. So please continue in that vein!
If you have any questions or concerns about anything on the site, feel free to reach out to the moderation team via the Contact Us link found at the bottom of any page.
Thank you again for joining us!
posted by Brandon Blatcher (staff) at 8:12 PM on February 2 [19 favorites]
Hi fennario and welcome to MetaFilter! While I understand being a bit nervous in a new situation, your contributions to the thread are really thoughtful and a great addition to MetaFiler.
Yes there are some nuances to the site’s culture, but nothing too terrible and again, your contributions here have been great. So please continue in that vein!
If you have any questions or concerns about anything on the site, feel free to reach out to the moderation team via the Contact Us link found at the bottom of any page.
Thank you again for joining us!
posted by Brandon Blatcher (staff) at 8:12 PM on February 2 [19 favorites]
I also wanted to say, fennario, that your thoughts were super interesting and I got a bunch from them and it didn't seem to me like you hit on any landmines at all (obviously that is not for me alone to say kinda ever.) You just came around with genuine life experience and a viewpoint I didn't have and I was really grateful to read about your experiences. Thank you.
posted by lauranesson at 9:06 PM on February 2 [9 favorites]
posted by lauranesson at 9:06 PM on February 2 [9 favorites]
Regaining weight after getting off the drug is not a side effect of the drug -- it's your normal physiology reasserting itself. Each of your fat cells contains a little fat blob, and when that blob shrinks too much the cell throws a tantrum in the form of hormones, the kind of hormones that make you hungry all the time, that make you more tired, make you think about food and cooking and recipes and grocery shopping, even make you fidget less. They're powerful because they're a combination of both subtle and loud constant nudges. And these meds turn the volume down on all of that.
But only ~10% of your fat cells turn over every year. So unless you've been taking the drug for years and years, you still have a huge crowd of fat cells screaming their heads off, and if you take off the earmuffs you'll be subject to that again.
The other side effect I hear mentioned a lot is losing lean body mass, without ever a mention that anytime you lose weight you will lose lean body mass (unless you are doing enough resistance training to build muscles at the same time). So again, a side effect of weight loss in general.
Not that there aren't any side effects, but a lot of them are similar to the sorts of things you get with a lot of drugs that we don't freak out about.
posted by antinomia at 3:31 AM on February 3 [10 favorites]
But only ~10% of your fat cells turn over every year. So unless you've been taking the drug for years and years, you still have a huge crowd of fat cells screaming their heads off, and if you take off the earmuffs you'll be subject to that again.
The other side effect I hear mentioned a lot is losing lean body mass, without ever a mention that anytime you lose weight you will lose lean body mass (unless you are doing enough resistance training to build muscles at the same time). So again, a side effect of weight loss in general.
Not that there aren't any side effects, but a lot of them are similar to the sorts of things you get with a lot of drugs that we don't freak out about.
posted by antinomia at 3:31 AM on February 3 [10 favorites]
I have mixed feelings about this article. I'm fascinated (and disturbed) by the anecdotes about people losing weight and suddenly feeling that they're allowed to have opinions -- that's a magic bonus to the weight-loss meds, and also a toxic, upsetting fact about the society they live in.
And on the other side, we have people complaining that their spouses have changed. They lost weight, or have decreased libido, or got old, or stopped drinking... that's just a fundamental fact about long-term relationships, isn't it? Your partner is going to look different in 10 years, regardless of what meds they take.
posted by eraserbones at 4:35 AM on February 3 [13 favorites]
And on the other side, we have people complaining that their spouses have changed. They lost weight, or have decreased libido, or got old, or stopped drinking... that's just a fundamental fact about long-term relationships, isn't it? Your partner is going to look different in 10 years, regardless of what meds they take.
posted by eraserbones at 4:35 AM on February 3 [13 favorites]
Weird how nobody ever frets about whether getting rid of a headache should be as easy as taking a pill. Of course it should. That’s the point of pills. What is it you think fat people deserve to be punished for?
FWIW, I was discouraged from 'taking pills' to deal with a headache by my family and my friend group growing up in the 90s.
I'm really excited about the possibilities these drugs offer people who want to lose weight. I wonder if they will ultimately increase or decrease overall fatphobia in society.
posted by Braeburn at 5:27 AM on February 3 [2 favorites]
FWIW, I was discouraged from 'taking pills' to deal with a headache by my family and my friend group growing up in the 90s.
I'm really excited about the possibilities these drugs offer people who want to lose weight. I wonder if they will ultimately increase or decrease overall fatphobia in society.
posted by Braeburn at 5:27 AM on February 3 [2 favorites]
I'll be brutally honest: as a human being living today, I have fully internalized all the attitudes we have about fat.
The fight that goes on in my head, between long-learned instincts and the things i now know, when I look at a person with extra weight, is digusting. It is not a switch to be simply flipped.
posted by Dashy at 5:40 AM on February 3 [4 favorites]
The fight that goes on in my head, between long-learned instincts and the things i now know, when I look at a person with extra weight, is digusting. It is not a switch to be simply flipped.
posted by Dashy at 5:40 AM on February 3 [4 favorites]
But only ~10% of your fat cells turn over every year. So unless you've been taking the drug for years and years, you still have a huge crowd of fat cells screaming their heads off, and if you take off the earmuffs you'll be subject to that again.
So... ten years or so to turn them all over? Is that all? I've been on antidiabetic drugs for about seventeen years now. I'll keep those "earmuffs" on for a decade if that will do the trick.
posted by Halloween Jack at 6:18 AM on February 3 [4 favorites]
So... ten years or so to turn them all over? Is that all? I've been on antidiabetic drugs for about seventeen years now. I'll keep those "earmuffs" on for a decade if that will do the trick.
posted by Halloween Jack at 6:18 AM on February 3 [4 favorites]
Your partner is going to look different in 10 years, regardless of what meds they take.
I was thinking about this article again this morning, and the same thought struck me. How much of midlife crisis is just looking around one day and saying, Wait, when did I marry an OLD person? I don't remember doing that!
Any change, any realization, will reveal fault-lines if they're there.
posted by mittens at 6:33 AM on February 3 [4 favorites]
I was thinking about this article again this morning, and the same thought struck me. How much of midlife crisis is just looking around one day and saying, Wait, when did I marry an OLD person? I don't remember doing that!
Any change, any realization, will reveal fault-lines if they're there.
posted by mittens at 6:33 AM on February 3 [4 favorites]
So much of modern medicine is about "taking a pill" to prevent all kinds of problems. High blood pressure, high cholesterol, etc., etc.
This doesn't seem that much different.
posted by freakazoid at 7:17 AM on February 3 [1 favorite]
This doesn't seem that much different.
posted by freakazoid at 7:17 AM on February 3 [1 favorite]
It's exciting to read an article about fat people and weight loss in a mainstream publication that isn't just "A fat person got thin and now everything about their life is better."
She says her primary experience of the past year, aside from the radical diminishment of her appetite, has been a discovery of her own boundaries and an ability to assert them. She is a people-pleaser by temperament, and now Jeanne has noticed that it feels easier to say no — at work, in social situations and to extended family, as well as to Javier.
“I was 17 and fat,” Jeanne recalls; already she had learned to compensate for her weight by always being supernice, as well as reliable and competent.
I liked this too. We don't talk enough about how people feel very comfortable disregarding fat people's boundaries and what it feels like to internalize that. I'm 33 and I'm still learning to say no to things I don't want.
posted by birthday cake at 7:31 AM on February 3 [13 favorites]
She says her primary experience of the past year, aside from the radical diminishment of her appetite, has been a discovery of her own boundaries and an ability to assert them. She is a people-pleaser by temperament, and now Jeanne has noticed that it feels easier to say no — at work, in social situations and to extended family, as well as to Javier.
“I was 17 and fat,” Jeanne recalls; already she had learned to compensate for her weight by always being supernice, as well as reliable and competent.
I liked this too. We don't talk enough about how people feel very comfortable disregarding fat people's boundaries and what it feels like to internalize that. I'm 33 and I'm still learning to say no to things I don't want.
posted by birthday cake at 7:31 AM on February 3 [13 favorites]
We don't talk enough about how people feel very comfortable disregarding fat people's boundaries and what it feels like to internalize that. I'm 33 and I'm still learning to say no to things I don't want.
Internalizing the idea that I don't deserve nice things has actually worked pretty well for me on balance, because after 63 years of a mostly fat existence I find myself with very few needs, which makes meeting those I do have require very little stress.
But it does come out in weird ways. Just the other day, I was showering and The Ballad Of Lucy Jordan came on the radio as part of a piece on the recent death of Marianne Faithfull, and when she got up to the part that goes
For what it's worth, not only can I not tolerate the side effects of GLP-1 agonists, I also found that coming off them brought on a rebound that pushed my set point up by 15kg. It's taken about a year to return to the ~160kg that seems to be where it's wanted to sit for the last ten.
posted by flabdablet at 7:53 AM on February 3 [4 favorites]
Internalizing the idea that I don't deserve nice things has actually worked pretty well for me on balance, because after 63 years of a mostly fat existence I find myself with very few needs, which makes meeting those I do have require very little stress.
But it does come out in weird ways. Just the other day, I was showering and The Ballad Of Lucy Jordan came on the radio as part of a piece on the recent death of Marianne Faithfull, and when she got up to the part that goes
The evening sun touched gently onsomething about the way she delivered those lines just wrecked me and I found myself howling and bawling. Full-blown gut-wrenching chest-heaving ugly crying. Still tearing up a little just recalling that.
The eyes of Lucy Jordan
On the roof top where she climbed
When all the laughter grew too loud
For what it's worth, not only can I not tolerate the side effects of GLP-1 agonists, I also found that coming off them brought on a rebound that pushed my set point up by 15kg. It's taken about a year to return to the ~160kg that seems to be where it's wanted to sit for the last ten.
posted by flabdablet at 7:53 AM on February 3 [4 favorites]
I can see a fairly straight line from "as I lose weight people are treating me better" to " now I can see that my partner hasn't been treating me well but between society and my own shame stuff I didn't think about it before". I mean, I quit reading after the whole dude didn't either notice or care that his wife was fucking him when she wasn't into it for FIVE YEARS. And he thinks the problem is the drug?
Funny how anytime women, particularly, even a subset of women, gets a little more agency and perspective, it's a problem.
I'm a guy who is most attracted to large women. And yes, it's delicate when a woman I love decides she wants to lose weight. I want to reassure her that I think she's lovely and sexy as she is. I also firmly believe that her body is hers and that even as that body changes, I will love both that body and the person inside.
But her experience of what I intend as support must be filtered through her lifetime of experience living as a fat woman in this culture. I don't get to control that.
In some ways it's like when someone you love goes to therapy, and suddenly starts pointing out the places where the normal patterns between you are chafing them. It's uncomfortable, but you have to give them time to adjust, look hard at your own patterns, change what no longer works and find a new balance.
There must be trust for a new balance to emerge, and I just don't know. I didn't know how a woman can trust a guy who can have sex she doesn't want with her for five. Years.
So to my mind - there may be problems with the drug, but it ain't that it kills relationships.
posted by Vigilant at 8:02 AM on February 3 [9 favorites]
Funny how anytime women, particularly, even a subset of women, gets a little more agency and perspective, it's a problem.
I'm a guy who is most attracted to large women. And yes, it's delicate when a woman I love decides she wants to lose weight. I want to reassure her that I think she's lovely and sexy as she is. I also firmly believe that her body is hers and that even as that body changes, I will love both that body and the person inside.
But her experience of what I intend as support must be filtered through her lifetime of experience living as a fat woman in this culture. I don't get to control that.
In some ways it's like when someone you love goes to therapy, and suddenly starts pointing out the places where the normal patterns between you are chafing them. It's uncomfortable, but you have to give them time to adjust, look hard at your own patterns, change what no longer works and find a new balance.
There must be trust for a new balance to emerge, and I just don't know. I didn't know how a woman can trust a guy who can have sex she doesn't want with her for five. Years.
So to my mind - there may be problems with the drug, but it ain't that it kills relationships.
posted by Vigilant at 8:02 AM on February 3 [9 favorites]
It's exciting to read an article about fat people and weight loss in a mainstream publication that isn't just "A fat person got thin and now everything about their life is better."
In a similar vein, I thought it was really sweet to read a husband like "My wife's body was really familiar and comforting and it's weird that it changed." So much of the mainstream conversation about bodies and relationships is either about prestige (sometimes disguised as "wellness") or about purely sexual attraction, and this kind of affectionate familiarity is underrepresented.
posted by Birds, snakes, and aeroplanes at 8:10 AM on February 3 [8 favorites]
In a similar vein, I thought it was really sweet to read a husband like "My wife's body was really familiar and comforting and it's weird that it changed." So much of the mainstream conversation about bodies and relationships is either about prestige (sometimes disguised as "wellness") or about purely sexual attraction, and this kind of affectionate familiarity is underrepresented.
posted by Birds, snakes, and aeroplanes at 8:10 AM on February 3 [8 favorites]
So much of modern medicine is about "taking a pill" to prevent all kinds of problems. High blood pressure, high cholesterol, etc., etc.
There is a ton of resistance against doing just that among the general public as well.
posted by lizjohn at 12:47 PM on February 3 [1 favorite]
There is a ton of resistance against doing just that among the general public as well.
posted by lizjohn at 12:47 PM on February 3 [1 favorite]
Human beings are incredibly a) puritanical, b) judgemental, and most of all c) convinced of their own power over fate.
Of course they resist any need for vaccines, drugs, cures, it deprives them of their sense of immortality.
posted by Dashy at 1:50 PM on February 3 [2 favorites]
Of course they resist any need for vaccines, drugs, cures, it deprives them of their sense of immortality.
posted by Dashy at 1:50 PM on February 3 [2 favorites]
Many women were pointing out in the NYT comments that when a woman in her 50s loses interest in sex, one of the first things to look at is hormone levels. The word "menopause" occurs once in the article and is followed up nowhere. The issue with intimacy is complicated, but if hormones help to restore her feelings of desire-- and here she was performing sex for years without truly wanting it!-- then there might be other changes in the relationship too. And it isn't as simple as "making your husband happy by having sex with him", which she had already tried, but a matter or her desires and wants. Just mentioning, as nobody else had.
posted by jokeefe at 7:35 PM on February 3 [4 favorites]
posted by jokeefe at 7:35 PM on February 3 [4 favorites]
jokeefe: that suggests something about all the anecdotes in this story. Midlife is a time when relationship problems surface. Even if the medication is a trigger, do couples where one person is taking actually have a higher rate of problems? This article isn't really giving us evidence.
posted by i_am_joe's_spleen at 9:48 PM on February 3 [1 favorite]
posted by i_am_joe's_spleen at 9:48 PM on February 3 [1 favorite]
But only ~10% of your fat cells turn over every year. So unless you've been taking the drug for years and years, you still have a huge crowd of fat cells screaming their heads off, and if you take off the earmuffs you'll be subject to that again.So... ten years or so to turn them all over? Is that all? I've been on antidiabetic drugs for about seventeen years now. I'll keep those "earmuffs" on for a decade if that will do the trick.
I'm pretty doubtful about the claim that fat cells keep "screaming their heads off" even once you've finished weight loss and are just maintaining a constant weight.
For instance this study seems to say the opposite:
Overall, WL does not have a sustained negative impact on satiety peptide secretion, despite a blunted secretion in individuals with obesity compared with nonobese controls.posted by TheophileEscargot at 11:35 PM on February 3 [1 favorite]
Many women were pointing out in the NYT comments that when a woman in her 50s loses interest in sex, one of the first things to look at is hormone levels. The word "menopause" occurs once in the article and is followed up nowhere
I’m glad somebody brought this up. I didn’t want to say anything if only because I’m not a fan of armchair diagnosing people from a keyboard based on a bit of information gleaned about them online. That said, when a couple in their early-mid 50s is having marriage difficulties based in large part due to a lack of intimacy, exacerbated by the wife having a massive decrease in overall interest in sex, it seems to me a reasonable conclusion would be menopause (and the husband’s lack of sympathy and understanding surrounding the symptoms of such) is a much larger cause than weight loss medication. Which made this particular couple kind of an odd choice to frame this story around.
posted by The Gooch at 8:42 AM on February 4 [1 favorite]
I’m glad somebody brought this up. I didn’t want to say anything if only because I’m not a fan of armchair diagnosing people from a keyboard based on a bit of information gleaned about them online. That said, when a couple in their early-mid 50s is having marriage difficulties based in large part due to a lack of intimacy, exacerbated by the wife having a massive decrease in overall interest in sex, it seems to me a reasonable conclusion would be menopause (and the husband’s lack of sympathy and understanding surrounding the symptoms of such) is a much larger cause than weight loss medication. Which made this particular couple kind of an odd choice to frame this story around.
posted by The Gooch at 8:42 AM on February 4 [1 favorite]
Was husband essentially a hobosexual
posted by fennario
TIL. That is a term that could be used for good or ill.
posted by lalochezia at 5:10 AM on February 6
posted by fennario
TIL. That is a term that could be used for good or ill.
posted by lalochezia at 5:10 AM on February 6
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posted by coffeecat at 12:30 PM on February 2 [13 favorites]