Marooned on an island for 6000 years
February 7, 2025 10:03 AM Subscribe
Wrangel Island, off the coast of Siberia, hosted a tiny population of the world's only remaining mammoths for 6000 years after they were stuck there by receding ice sheets, kept away from the humans who hunted the rest of the species to extinction.
More recently, the study of ancient DNA was able to shed doubt on the hypothesis that they died out due to inbreeding, leaving us none the wiser as to why no mammoths remain today.
More recently, the study of ancient DNA was able to shed doubt on the hypothesis that they died out due to inbreeding, leaving us none the wiser as to why no mammoths remain today.
“It was probably just some random event that killed them off, and if that random event hadn’t happened, then we would still have mammoths today”
Since humans arrived a few hundred years later, this seems a little doubtful.
posted by rhamphorhynchus at 10:26 AM on February 7 [3 favorites]
Since humans arrived a few hundred years later, this seems a little doubtful.
posted by rhamphorhynchus at 10:26 AM on February 7 [3 favorites]
This is fascinating. I’d read a book about this.
posted by Vatnesine at 10:26 AM on February 7 [2 favorites]
posted by Vatnesine at 10:26 AM on February 7 [2 favorites]
posted by rhamphorhynchus
Oh, the eponystery!
posted by y2karl at 10:44 AM on February 7 [4 favorites]
Oh, the eponystery!
posted by y2karl at 10:44 AM on February 7 [4 favorites]
It wasn’t glaciated! Wtf?
Research article on the evidence for that. tbr
posted by clew at 10:56 AM on February 7 [1 favorite]
Research article on the evidence for that. tbr
posted by clew at 10:56 AM on February 7 [1 favorite]
So what they're saying is that we now have a perfect mammoth preserve for when mad scientists inevitably clone some and we have to put them somewhere.
posted by Atreides at 11:04 AM on February 7 [6 favorites]
posted by Atreides at 11:04 AM on February 7 [6 favorites]
Funny: the title of the first link wrapped for me, so it said: The Incredible Wrangel Island: The Place Where Mammoths Survived Until 2000.
I was like, "WHAT? Oh... BC."
posted by klanawa at 11:12 AM on February 7 [4 favorites]
I was like, "WHAT? Oh... BC."
posted by klanawa at 11:12 AM on February 7 [4 favorites]
Since island species tend to become smaller I'm imagining the last of them were dog-sized mammoths and would have made for awesome pets.
posted by Hairy Lobster at 11:23 AM on February 7 [10 favorites]
posted by Hairy Lobster at 11:23 AM on February 7 [10 favorites]
I'm totally on board for the AMOC collapse ice age, just based on the poetic justice of humanity getting a massive smackdown in the most absurd fashion possible. Until that time, seems like we should just go gloves off for crazy science shit, though. So if anybody wants to just go for it with regard to Jurassic Park, sounds good to me. Velociraptors loose on the grounds are probably better overall than government by "AI" and "race realist" 22 year olds, anyway.
What, this was a serious post? Oh, I uh, yeah sorry about that. Been processing some stuff lately.
posted by Smedly, Butlerian jihadi at 11:25 AM on February 7 [2 favorites]
What, this was a serious post? Oh, I uh, yeah sorry about that. Been processing some stuff lately.
posted by Smedly, Butlerian jihadi at 11:25 AM on February 7 [2 favorites]
Cute pets? I beg to differ
Bringing Larry Niven and Jerry Pournelle into any online conversation is a variation on Godwin's Law. Just sayin'...
posted by y2karl at 11:44 AM on February 7 [5 favorites]
Bringing Larry Niven and Jerry Pournelle into any online conversation is a variation on Godwin's Law. Just sayin'...
posted by y2karl at 11:44 AM on February 7 [5 favorites]
Kind of crazy to think that mammoths were still alive when the Egyptians built the pyramids
posted by gottabefunky at 11:46 AM on February 7 [8 favorites]
posted by gottabefunky at 11:46 AM on February 7 [8 favorites]
Since island species tend to become smaller I'm imagining the last of them were dog-sized mammoths and would have made for awesome pets.
As well as evolving a variety of beaks for nutcracking, flycatching, etc.
posted by mittens at 11:47 AM on February 7 [10 favorites]
As well as evolving a variety of beaks for nutcracking, flycatching, etc.
posted by mittens at 11:47 AM on February 7 [10 favorites]
Similar isolate pachyderm populations: the St. Paul Island mammoths (died out 6000 years ago). The Channel Island pygmy mammoths (died out 10,000 years ago--around when the Wrangel Island mammoths were getting started).
posted by what does it eat, light? at 11:53 AM on February 7 [3 favorites]
posted by what does it eat, light? at 11:53 AM on February 7 [3 favorites]
Since island species tend to become smaller I'm imagining the last of them were dog-sized mammoths and would have made for awesome pets.
(The Channel Island pygmy mammoth was, indeed, the size of a pony--so, dog-sized, if "dog" = "the Hound of the Baskervilles")
posted by what does it eat, light? at 11:56 AM on February 7 [4 favorites]
(The Channel Island pygmy mammoth was, indeed, the size of a pony--so, dog-sized, if "dog" = "the Hound of the Baskervilles")
posted by what does it eat, light? at 11:56 AM on February 7 [4 favorites]
Regarding potential dwarf mammoths, if one RTFA, that's addressed: "Despite their relative isolation, genetic studies reveal that these mammoths were not a dwarf variant but had a size typical of Siberian mammoths."
posted by ssg at 12:05 PM on February 7 [3 favorites]
posted by ssg at 12:05 PM on February 7 [3 favorites]
Bringing Larry Niven and Jerry Pournelle into any online conversation is a variation on Godwin's Law. Just sayin'...
Oh, 100% agree! I was concentrating more on Whelan's cover art. Here are his thoughts on the painting, which might surprise.
posted by wenestvedt at 12:51 PM on February 7
Oh, 100% agree! I was concentrating more on Whelan's cover art. Here are his thoughts on the painting, which might surprise.
posted by wenestvedt at 12:51 PM on February 7
They're still there. They're just crabs now.
(This is a cool article!)
posted by away for regrooving at 1:01 PM on February 7 [9 favorites]
(This is a cool article!)
posted by away for regrooving at 1:01 PM on February 7 [9 favorites]
Since island species tend to become smaller
The Galapagos tortoises must have originally been insanely huge, then!
posted by Greg_Ace at 1:24 PM on February 7 [4 favorites]
The Galapagos tortoises must have originally been insanely huge, then!
posted by Greg_Ace at 1:24 PM on February 7 [4 favorites]
The Galapagos tortoises must have originally been insanely huge, then!
Perhaps descended from the absolutely terrifying 15-foot-long Archelon!
posted by mittens at 1:57 PM on February 7 [2 favorites]
Perhaps descended from the absolutely terrifying 15-foot-long Archelon!
posted by mittens at 1:57 PM on February 7 [2 favorites]
I was just watching an episode of Expedition Unknown where they went to Northern Siberia to look for Woolly Mammoth bones to extract DNA from. The official place they went was permafrost that was melting and they had limited finds. Then they found out where the black market prospectors were mining mammoth tusks and tearing up the permafrost with water cannons. Very dispiriting. Fucking people!
posted by a humble nudibranch at 3:11 PM on February 7 [1 favorite]
posted by a humble nudibranch at 3:11 PM on February 7 [1 favorite]
Don't tell no one, but it was Bigfoot. That sumbitch is God's Own Eternal Reaping Machine. Wherever Bigfoot goes, soon will echo with the cries and wails of the damnéd souls swimming in a sea of blood. Bigfoot will reap. Bigfoot. Will reap. Oh, dang, that's some good cough syrup.
posted by JustSayNoDawg at 3:52 PM on February 7 [1 favorite]
posted by JustSayNoDawg at 3:52 PM on February 7 [1 favorite]
The Galapagos tortoises must have originally been insanely huge, then!
Since specious islands tend to become larger over time, the island used to rest on the turtle until they had to switch places.
posted by GenjiandProust at 4:27 PM on February 7 [9 favorites]
Since specious islands tend to become larger over time, the island used to rest on the turtle until they had to switch places.
posted by GenjiandProust at 4:27 PM on February 7 [9 favorites]
They're still there. They're just crabs now.
A similar joke occurred to me, but then I realized — as you probably saw from the start — that turtles are very crab-like already, with only four legs and a pincher mounted in the middle instead of two on a couple of legs.
Which makes them an example of everything turning into crabs.
posted by jamjam at 5:05 PM on February 7
A similar joke occurred to me, but then I realized — as you probably saw from the start — that turtles are very crab-like already, with only four legs and a pincher mounted in the middle instead of two on a couple of legs.
Which makes them an example of everything turning into crabs.
posted by jamjam at 5:05 PM on February 7
However, the isolation led to an accumulation of harmful genetic mutations which, combined with local climatic changes and possibly human arrival, ultimately led to their extinction.Recently it occurred to me that small isolated populations' vulnerability to mutations would make sunspot minima especially dangerous for them because the accompanying weakness of the Sun's magnetic field would allow so many more galactic cosmic rays to get through, so I searched for sunspot minima in 2000 BC to see whether this could have been a factor in the extinction of the mammoths of Wrangel:
According to available research, around 2000 BC, there is evidence of a significant sunspot minimum, with some studies suggesting it could be considered a "grand solar minimum" period,posted by jamjam at 5:51 PM on February 7 [3 favorites]
[...]
Have they ever gotten around to cloning a wooly mammoth?
posted by JustSayNoDawg at 6:01 PM on February 7 [1 favorite]
posted by JustSayNoDawg at 6:01 PM on February 7 [1 favorite]
Oh hey, Mammoth Island from The Way Things Wor--CRO WAS A SMART BOY
Context: both are based on the same source material
posted by BiggerJ at 9:55 PM on February 7
Context: both are based on the same source material
posted by BiggerJ at 9:55 PM on February 7
Island gigantism also occurs!
IIRC the hypothesis is that an isolated species will get bigger if it's capturing more resources because its near competitors haven't arrived; or smaller if resources are more limited because, island.
posted by clew at 1:05 PM on February 8
IIRC the hypothesis is that an isolated species will get bigger if it's capturing more resources because its near competitors haven't arrived; or smaller if resources are more limited because, island.
posted by clew at 1:05 PM on February 8
have now read the Boreal article on Wrangel not having been glaciated and:
1) some of the evidence comes from dating the exposure of quartz in the existing tors to cosmic rays. So we get to look at the color photos of the unrounded tors (p 6/10) and imagine a wooly mammoth there.
2) the hypothesis I understand is that there wasn't a glacier there because there wasn't precipitation there. well okay, the wooly mammoths are surviving on a *desert* island in the polar regions during a glacial maximum.
The more you look the more amazing it is.
posted by clew at 2:36 PM on February 8
1) some of the evidence comes from dating the exposure of quartz in the existing tors to cosmic rays. So we get to look at the color photos of the unrounded tors (p 6/10) and imagine a wooly mammoth there.
2) the hypothesis I understand is that there wasn't a glacier there because there wasn't precipitation there. well okay, the wooly mammoths are surviving on a *desert* island in the polar regions during a glacial maximum.
The more you look the more amazing it is.
posted by clew at 2:36 PM on February 8
Much of Beringia wasn't glaciated even during glacial maximum / climatic minimum because quite dry and low altitude - not enough snow for continental glaciation and not enough mountains to allow for alpine glaciers to congeal and spread.
The Beringian stillstand hypothesis suggests that the ancestors of Indigenous people of North and South America found it to be a productive refugial homeland where they spent perhaps 5,000 years before access opened to the Americas with melting ice in the more temperate latitudes. There's a number of lines of genetic evidence that support this. Beringia was not a bridge in most senses of the word, but a multicultural place to be in its own right. Indeed some Beringians never did make the trip to the south.
posted by Rumple at 9:26 PM on February 8 [1 favorite]
The Beringian stillstand hypothesis suggests that the ancestors of Indigenous people of North and South America found it to be a productive refugial homeland where they spent perhaps 5,000 years before access opened to the Americas with melting ice in the more temperate latitudes. There's a number of lines of genetic evidence that support this. Beringia was not a bridge in most senses of the word, but a multicultural place to be in its own right. Indeed some Beringians never did make the trip to the south.
posted by Rumple at 9:26 PM on February 8 [1 favorite]
Have they ever gotten around to cloning a wooly mammoth?
Nope, and I hope no-one ever manages it. That's always seemed to me a step on the path to cloning a Neanderthal.
posted by rhamphorhynchus at 7:24 AM on February 11 [1 favorite]
Nope, and I hope no-one ever manages it. That's always seemed to me a step on the path to cloning a Neanderthal.
posted by rhamphorhynchus at 7:24 AM on February 11 [1 favorite]
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