The Gulf of Unreasoning
March 4, 2025 4:55 PM Subscribe
Amidst a trade war with American's neighbors and partners, and a crashing economy, US President #47 will address a joint session of the US Congress starting at 9p.m. ET (watch live on YouTube)
How many dems will show up?
posted by MisantropicPainforest at 5:27 PM on March 4
posted by MisantropicPainforest at 5:27 PM on March 4
I'll be doing my part to give this fucker the lowest SOTU ratings in history. Which is easy because I'd rather watch my cat lick its asshole. I hope he audibly shits himself.
posted by swift at 5:29 PM on March 4 [28 favorites]
posted by swift at 5:29 PM on March 4 [28 favorites]
Doesn't he get enough attention as it is? Let him give a speech to an empty chamber.
posted by mittens at 5:31 PM on March 4 [2 favorites]
posted by mittens at 5:31 PM on March 4 [2 favorites]
I have no bingo card because I know i would destroy my liver or develop type 47 diabetes. Not even sure I'll watch or even the whole thing. It's enraging to see this...person at such a high level. Even more enraging to see so many follow him.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 5:32 PM on March 4 [15 favorites]
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 5:32 PM on March 4 [15 favorites]
I have a different joint session in mind.
posted by Lemkin at 5:33 PM on March 4 [42 favorites]
posted by Lemkin at 5:33 PM on March 4 [42 favorites]
Can I watch it naked? I find it more relaxing.
posted by ZenMasterThis at 5:34 PM on March 4 [4 favorites]
posted by ZenMasterThis at 5:34 PM on March 4 [4 favorites]
Any Democrat who applauds even once must be primaried. Any Democrat who doesn't shout "you lie!" should be viewed with suspicion.
posted by mittens at 5:35 PM on March 4 [14 favorites]
posted by mittens at 5:35 PM on March 4 [14 favorites]
Triumph of the Swill.
posted by Capt. Renault at 5:37 PM on March 4 [19 favorites]
posted by Capt. Renault at 5:37 PM on March 4 [19 favorites]
https://bsky.app/profile/nymag.com/post/3ljlfoxz2sn2b
Dems planning to show their opposition by color coordinating.
posted by subdee at 5:38 PM on March 4 [3 favorites]
Dems planning to show their opposition by color coordinating.
posted by subdee at 5:38 PM on March 4 [3 favorites]
Dems planning to show their opposition by color coordinating.
Whoa. Bold move for Dems. Perhaps they should start with socks for this speech and work their way up over the next 4 years.
posted by ZenMasterThis at 5:47 PM on March 4 [42 favorites]
Whoa. Bold move for Dems. Perhaps they should start with socks for this speech and work their way up over the next 4 years.
posted by ZenMasterThis at 5:47 PM on March 4 [42 favorites]
I was gonna watch Rome™ until I got high
I was gonna get up and lift the gloom but then I got high
My countries still messed up, and I know why.
la-la-ta, ta-ta-ra-ra
posted by clavdivs at 5:51 PM on March 4 [14 favorites]
I was gonna get up and lift the gloom but then I got high
My countries still messed up, and I know why.
la-la-ta, ta-ta-ra-ra
posted by clavdivs at 5:51 PM on March 4 [14 favorites]
MSNBC is showing the chamber live, before the event begins.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 5:52 PM on March 4
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 5:52 PM on March 4
Jesus fucking WEPT, y’all.
(Pre-empting the sentiment because that’s all I have right now)
posted by Doleful Creature at 5:52 PM on March 4 [2 favorites]
(Pre-empting the sentiment because that’s all I have right now)
posted by Doleful Creature at 5:52 PM on March 4 [2 favorites]
This felt inevitable, this mask-off moment of naked imperialism from the US of A. Inevitable, but not this stupid. Every once in a while I still can't believe it. It's Donald J. Trump? It's like reaching the end of The Usual Suspects and the big bad is Pauly Shore, or Carrot Top.
posted by ginger.beef at 5:58 PM on March 4 [49 favorites]
posted by ginger.beef at 5:58 PM on March 4 [49 favorites]
As with all prior SOTUs, I will be noping out of this one as well. That said, I saw something the other day where someone close to the sewer said to expect an “imperial” address. I think this is where he crowns himself monarch.
posted by Thorzdad at 5:59 PM on March 4 [7 favorites]
posted by Thorzdad at 5:59 PM on March 4 [7 favorites]
I'm in. Gonna hurt but I want to listen for clues, maybe he'll have a stroke, maybe he'll have troops waiting to storm in and detain democrats. Let's do it mefi.
Whose the designated survivor?
posted by vrakatar at 6:00 PM on March 4 [4 favorites]
Whose the designated survivor?
posted by vrakatar at 6:00 PM on March 4 [4 favorites]
Honestly, if he comes out wearing a toga, it will be the best-fitting garment he has worn in the last 40 years.
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 6:00 PM on March 4 [5 favorites]
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 6:00 PM on March 4 [5 favorites]
Following by proxy because I just can’t
posted by mazola at 6:02 PM on March 4 [1 favorite]
posted by mazola at 6:02 PM on March 4 [1 favorite]
"Veterans Affairs Secretary Doug Collins is this year’s designated survivor"
got it.
posted by vrakatar at 6:05 PM on March 4 [2 favorites]
got it.
posted by vrakatar at 6:05 PM on March 4 [2 favorites]
who's the designated survivor
posted by clavdivs at 6:05 PM on March 4 [3 favorites]
posted by clavdivs at 6:05 PM on March 4 [3 favorites]
Best comment on twitter today: "He’s going to make his horse a senator, isn’t he?"
posted by mbo at 6:06 PM on March 4 [26 favorites]
posted by mbo at 6:06 PM on March 4 [26 favorites]
who's the designated survivor
Most of us.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 6:10 PM on March 4 [6 favorites]
Most of us.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 6:10 PM on March 4 [6 favorites]
Drinking game! Just drink hemlock! As much as you can find! Eat the leaves if that's all you got!
posted by DeepSeaHaggis at 6:12 PM on March 4 [17 favorites]
posted by DeepSeaHaggis at 6:12 PM on March 4 [17 favorites]
did you see the NOT NORMAL sign? Who snatched it away?
posted by vrakatar at 6:16 PM on March 4 [1 favorite]
posted by vrakatar at 6:16 PM on March 4 [1 favorite]
no way i'm gonna watch. I'll read the transcript, but actually hearing trump talk is viscerally uncomfortable for me.
posted by Dr. Twist at 6:18 PM on March 4 [27 favorites]
posted by Dr. Twist at 6:18 PM on March 4 [27 favorites]
look at the speaker of the House playing Hall monitor how pathetic
posted by clavdivs at 6:23 PM on March 4 [1 favorite]
posted by clavdivs at 6:23 PM on March 4 [1 favorite]
Rep. Al Green (D - Texas)
posted by DeepSeaHaggis at 6:26 PM on March 4 [11 favorites]
posted by DeepSeaHaggis at 6:26 PM on March 4 [11 favorites]
Donald Trump: Because evidence is a liberal conspiracy.
posted by ZenMasterThis at 6:29 PM on March 4 [2 favorites]
posted by ZenMasterThis at 6:29 PM on March 4 [2 favorites]
JD Vance thriving in his villain era. His shit eating grin every time there's booing. Bless.
posted by phunniemee at 6:29 PM on March 4 [3 favorites]
posted by phunniemee at 6:29 PM on March 4 [3 favorites]
>"Veterans Affairs Secretary Doug Collins is this year’s designated survivor"
posted by torokunai2 at 6:29 PM on March 4 [1 favorite]
+---+---+---+---+---+---+ +---+---+---+---+---+---+ | _ | E | R | E | ' | S | | _ | _ | _ | _ | N | _ | +---+---+---+---+---+---+ +---+---+---+---+---+---+Can I buy a vowel?
posted by torokunai2 at 6:29 PM on March 4 [1 favorite]
Holy shit the SOTU is pathetic
This bully, this piece of shit, he speaks for the US of A? The schoolyard slights? The self-aggrandizement? This is the Big Man of empire?
Disgusting.
posted by ginger.beef at 6:31 PM on March 4 [11 favorites]
This bully, this piece of shit, he speaks for the US of A? The schoolyard slights? The self-aggrandizement? This is the Big Man of empire?
Disgusting.
posted by ginger.beef at 6:31 PM on March 4 [11 favorites]
please Mr bumble,
please Mr bumble.
hey free speech is back in America
posted by clavdivs at 6:33 PM on March 4
please Mr bumble.
hey free speech is back in America
posted by clavdivs at 6:33 PM on March 4
Mount mckinley, slowly I turned
posted by clavdivs at 6:34 PM on March 4 [3 favorites]
posted by clavdivs at 6:34 PM on March 4 [3 favorites]
Our country will be woke no longer 🥹🙏🦅
posted by phunniemee at 6:35 PM on March 4
posted by phunniemee at 6:35 PM on March 4
Doug Collins right now this very moment is controlling the entire US military apparatus until they can Rush someone else out of the room or into the room.
posted by clavdivs at 6:35 PM on March 4
posted by clavdivs at 6:35 PM on March 4
i hope he plays hot to go
posted by Sperry Topsider at 6:36 PM on March 4 [5 favorites]
posted by Sperry Topsider at 6:36 PM on March 4 [5 favorites]
He's holding onto the podium like he's drunk
posted by ZenMasterThis at 6:38 PM on March 4 [1 favorite]
posted by ZenMasterThis at 6:38 PM on March 4 [1 favorite]
The Thorazine is kicking in.
posted by njohnson23 at 6:39 PM on March 4 [2 favorites]
posted by njohnson23 at 6:39 PM on March 4 [2 favorites]
Caesar gave all citizens 100 Denali, adjusted for inflation today that's about $4.93.
tariffs do one thing well many things but the one thing that he wants to accomplish is get a shackle hold upon the rich and ultra Rich to keep them under control.
I wonder how fast you can put together a constitutional convention.
posted by clavdivs at 6:40 PM on March 4 [1 favorite]
tariffs do one thing well many things but the one thing that he wants to accomplish is get a shackle hold upon the rich and ultra Rich to keep them under control.
I wonder how fast you can put together a constitutional convention.
posted by clavdivs at 6:40 PM on March 4 [1 favorite]
The Democrats didn't walk out in protest. Good for Al Green, he shouldn't have been alone in calling out one of the barrage of lies. But since that didn't happen, good luck those of you who can listen to that pit of recursive self congratulatory bile. I'm out.
posted by Lenie Clarke at 6:40 PM on March 4 [7 favorites]
posted by Lenie Clarke at 6:40 PM on March 4 [7 favorites]
auguries tell me that tomorrow's Dow will close up 493 points if not
someone's f****** with birds.
posted by clavdivs at 6:42 PM on March 4 [2 favorites]
someone's f****** with birds.
posted by clavdivs at 6:42 PM on March 4 [2 favorites]
I haven't been cooking my earths for the whole last week. Was I supposed to be slightly roasting them?
posted by DeepSeaHaggis at 6:44 PM on March 4 [2 favorites]
posted by DeepSeaHaggis at 6:44 PM on March 4 [2 favorites]
someone should calculate all the money he's talking about right now to what the United States brings in per hour
posted by clavdivs at 6:45 PM on March 4
posted by clavdivs at 6:45 PM on March 4
We've moved into the part where he fails to either pronounce or recognize countries in Africa, neat.
posted by phunniemee at 6:46 PM on March 4 [1 favorite]
posted by phunniemee at 6:46 PM on March 4 [1 favorite]
I'd rather watch my cat lick its asshole.
I too choose this MeFite's cat.
posted by Greg_Ace at 6:46 PM on March 4 [17 favorites]
I too choose this MeFite's cat.
posted by Greg_Ace at 6:46 PM on March 4 [17 favorites]
A country can scarcely recover from such infamy
posted by ginger.beef at 6:48 PM on March 4
posted by ginger.beef at 6:48 PM on March 4
Would love to see the Dems stand up in unison chanting BULLSHIT! BULLSHIT! BULLSHIT!
posted by ZenMasterThis at 6:48 PM on March 4 [8 favorites]
posted by ZenMasterThis at 6:48 PM on March 4 [8 favorites]
Those of you siting it out may have made the right choice, this is dark vengeful.
posted by vrakatar at 6:48 PM on March 4 [3 favorites]
posted by vrakatar at 6:48 PM on March 4 [3 favorites]
This is fucking vile
posted by DeepSeaHaggis at 6:51 PM on March 4 [2 favorites]
posted by DeepSeaHaggis at 6:51 PM on March 4 [2 favorites]
okay, what just flew out of the president's face that wound up on his right sleeve that looks like a white piece of powder my God I think it's still there.
posted by clavdivs at 6:54 PM on March 4 [6 favorites]
posted by clavdivs at 6:54 PM on March 4 [6 favorites]
Would love to see the Dems stand up in unison chanting BULLSHIT! BULLSHIT! BULLSHIT!
They seem to think they "live to fight another day" these dumb bastards. What an end.
posted by ginger.beef at 6:55 PM on March 4 [7 favorites]
They seem to think they "live to fight another day" these dumb bastards. What an end.
posted by ginger.beef at 6:55 PM on March 4 [7 favorites]
still there
can I get a confirmation there's a white spot on his right sleeve right now that flew out of his face
posted by clavdivs at 6:55 PM on March 4 [1 favorite]
can I get a confirmation there's a white spot on his right sleeve right now that flew out of his face
posted by clavdivs at 6:55 PM on March 4 [1 favorite]
I saw it.
posted by vrakatar at 6:55 PM on March 4 [2 favorites]
posted by vrakatar at 6:55 PM on March 4 [2 favorites]
Left sleeve.
posted by ZenMasterThis at 6:55 PM on March 4 [2 favorites]
posted by ZenMasterThis at 6:55 PM on March 4 [2 favorites]
Holy shit, there is a coke booger on the president's sleeve
posted by DeepSeaHaggis at 6:55 PM on March 4 [9 favorites]
posted by DeepSeaHaggis at 6:55 PM on March 4 [9 favorites]
correction left sleeve actually have my back to the president so I had to turn and then you know
posted by clavdivs at 6:56 PM on March 4 [3 favorites]
posted by clavdivs at 6:56 PM on March 4 [3 favorites]
I am doing EFT tapping sessions over here if anyone wants to distract themselves in a calm manner. I'll probably switch to booze after I finish the last one, though.
First Baby X's booger, now a coke booger!
posted by jenfullmoon at 6:56 PM on March 4 [8 favorites]
First Baby X's booger, now a coke booger!
posted by jenfullmoon at 6:56 PM on March 4 [8 favorites]
Al Green's disruption was good. It temporarily removed any momentum Trump had. There should be individual Dems doing the same thing every 5 minutes throughout the entire speech.
posted by Kabanos at 6:57 PM on March 4 [30 favorites]
posted by Kabanos at 6:57 PM on March 4 [30 favorites]
okay, what just flew out of the president's face that wound up on his right sleeve that looks like a white piece of powder my God I think it's still there.
jus a lil hork of cream corn
(gormonbozia if u nasty)
posted by phunniemee at 6:57 PM on March 4 [10 favorites]
jus a lil hork of cream corn
(gormonbozia if u nasty)
posted by phunniemee at 6:57 PM on March 4 [10 favorites]
I wonder how many people rewinding that right now
posted by clavdivs at 6:58 PM on March 4 [1 favorite]
posted by clavdivs at 6:58 PM on March 4 [1 favorite]
Speaker Johnson knows it is there cuz shitstain keep turning to the left. He saw it. Watch his eyes.
posted by vrakatar at 6:58 PM on March 4 [2 favorites]
posted by vrakatar at 6:58 PM on March 4 [2 favorites]
Meg Tilly summarizes Trump's message to Dems tonight.
posted by zaixfeep at 7:07 PM on March 4 [1 favorite]
posted by zaixfeep at 7:07 PM on March 4 [1 favorite]
Cameras didn't show it, but several Democrats including Rep. Maxwell Frost (the youngest MC, and we love this guy here in Florida) and possibly Rep. Jasmine Crockett (Texas, total badass), all walked out pretty much in unison.
(I'm working off a photo, Rep. Rashida Tlaib too, I think)
posted by martin q blank at 7:07 PM on March 4 [11 favorites]
(I'm working off a photo, Rep. Rashida Tlaib too, I think)
posted by martin q blank at 7:07 PM on March 4 [11 favorites]
Hey here's this young woman who had deepfake porn made about her, terrible. We're passing a law about it to criminalize this, also terrible. I'm going to use this legislation for myself because no one is treated worse than me online, certainly not this woman who IS LITERALLY RIGHT HERE and got DEEPFAKE PORN MADE ABOUT HER SO BAD CONGRESS GOT INVOLVED, nope it's me, it's all about me.
posted by phunniemee at 7:10 PM on March 4 [12 favorites]
posted by phunniemee at 7:10 PM on March 4 [12 favorites]
The extended section of him saying extremely old people collecting Social Security was so incredibly disgusting. It was just lie after lie. This has been audited before: it's one database with some people not listed as dead. They haven't been paid for decades. The Social Security Administration has rejected correcting the database because it would cost a lot and doesn't help anything.
posted by netowl at 7:13 PM on March 4 [8 favorites]
posted by netowl at 7:13 PM on March 4 [8 favorites]
woulda helped give Project 2025 one less bit of ammo but whatever
posted by Greg_Ace at 7:18 PM on March 4
posted by Greg_Ace at 7:18 PM on March 4
(jokes aside, they would've just found something else to lie about instead, so I'm not really blaming the SSA for that.)
posted by Greg_Ace at 7:20 PM on March 4 [1 favorite]
posted by Greg_Ace at 7:20 PM on March 4 [1 favorite]
Oh bloody hell he wants to invade mexico. Okay, person who asked that question on the green today about hiring a consultant to advise them on when to flee? FLEE!
posted by vrakatar at 7:22 PM on March 4
posted by vrakatar at 7:22 PM on March 4
I think he's going to have a crick in his neck... hasn't looked right but once or twice and it clearly hurt him to do it.
posted by skippyhacker at 7:26 PM on March 4 [1 favorite]
posted by skippyhacker at 7:26 PM on March 4 [1 favorite]
Okay, making the 13 year old cancer kid an honorary agent might be the only kind thing in this speech.
posted by vrakatar at 7:35 PM on March 4 [3 favorites]
posted by vrakatar at 7:35 PM on March 4 [3 favorites]
I’m not totally a fan of using people that can’t consent, tbh.
posted by susiswimmer at 7:35 PM on March 4 [12 favorites]
posted by susiswimmer at 7:35 PM on March 4 [12 favorites]
the office of shipbuilding.
will there be a space traveler's guild
posted by clavdivs at 7:39 PM on March 4
will there be a space traveler's guild
posted by clavdivs at 7:39 PM on March 4
will there be a space traveler's guild
No, there will an incredibly corrupt revival of SDI via SpaceX.
That won't actually be built and deployed, as that would displease Putin.
posted by snuffleupagus at 7:43 PM on March 4 [3 favorites]
No, there will an incredibly corrupt revival of SDI via SpaceX.
That won't actually be built and deployed, as that would displease Putin.
posted by snuffleupagus at 7:43 PM on March 4 [3 favorites]
Wow this bit on the Panama Canal- built by Americans for Americans.
Plus, the new West Point cadets lapel pin- an American flag inside a cross pin, tells us everything you need to know. So seconding the response to the questioner on the green- go. Go Now.
posted by susiswimmer at 7:47 PM on March 4 [3 favorites]
Plus, the new West Point cadets lapel pin- an American flag inside a cross pin, tells us everything you need to know. So seconding the response to the questioner on the green- go. Go Now.
posted by susiswimmer at 7:47 PM on March 4 [3 favorites]
Sweet fucking god he threatened to invade Greenland on the fucking floor of the house.
posted by FutureExpatCorb at 7:47 PM on March 4 [12 favorites]
posted by FutureExpatCorb at 7:47 PM on March 4 [12 favorites]
And we need it to fight ISIS? Did I hear that right?
posted by susiswimmer at 7:53 PM on March 4 [1 favorite]
posted by susiswimmer at 7:53 PM on March 4 [1 favorite]
Here's a PDF on the incomplete Social Security "Death Master File". It probably should have been fixed, but they didn't have the resources.
Another series of lies: the Panama Canal deaths. Most deaths were before the US got involved, when France was working on it. Obviously nearly every death throughout was local hires, not foreign nationals.
posted by netowl at 7:54 PM on March 4 [5 favorites]
Another series of lies: the Panama Canal deaths. Most deaths were before the US got involved, when France was working on it. Obviously nearly every death throughout was local hires, not foreign nationals.
posted by netowl at 7:54 PM on March 4 [5 favorites]
Is he going to go three hours? He's sounding tired and confused and needs to wrap this senile bullshit up.
posted by vrakatar at 7:54 PM on March 4 [1 favorite]
posted by vrakatar at 7:54 PM on March 4 [1 favorite]
I don't think one of Allison or Kaylee wanted to be there
posted by DeepSeaHaggis at 7:54 PM on March 4 [1 favorite]
posted by DeepSeaHaggis at 7:54 PM on March 4 [1 favorite]
see, he just invaded Mars with the flag
posted by clavdivs at 7:57 PM on March 4 [1 favorite]
posted by clavdivs at 7:57 PM on March 4 [1 favorite]
A real patriot would pluck that turkey
posted by ginger.beef at 8:00 PM on March 4 [1 favorite]
posted by ginger.beef at 8:00 PM on March 4 [1 favorite]
That was horrific.
posted by vrakatar at 8:04 PM on March 4 [1 favorite]
posted by vrakatar at 8:04 PM on March 4 [1 favorite]
he just invaded Mars with the flag
Excuse me?? Right in front of Congress? That's just perverted!
posted by Greg_Ace at 8:07 PM on March 4
Excuse me?? Right in front of Congress? That's just perverted!
posted by Greg_Ace at 8:07 PM on March 4
I remember an August evening, we just got back from the lake and my dad turned on the television and let me watch though past my bedtime, Nixon's resignation. at 9:00, I realized he was unpopular but I asked my father why he's resigning reply because he's a son of a b**** my father rarely ever swore how so
he lied and got caught.
doing what
.... son, think of the mission impossible with Bozo the clown as guest star.
so the message did not destruct in 5 seconds.
ah, slotkin is giving the response and I said before that she's up and coming
let's listen to this
posted by clavdivs at 8:10 PM on March 4 [11 favorites]
he lied and got caught.
doing what
.... son, think of the mission impossible with Bozo the clown as guest star.
so the message did not destruct in 5 seconds.
ah, slotkin is giving the response and I said before that she's up and coming
let's listen to this
posted by clavdivs at 8:10 PM on March 4 [11 favorites]
Turnip is playing an old infocom game, except the only command he knows is "bluster"
> bluster
You bluster.
> bluster
You bluster.
Over and over again.
posted by fnerg at 8:13 PM on March 4 [5 favorites]
> bluster
You bluster.
> bluster
You bluster.
Over and over again.
posted by fnerg at 8:13 PM on March 4 [5 favorites]
I’m microdosing the sotu by watching Bernie’s response.
posted by Mizu at 8:19 PM on March 4 [8 favorites]
posted by Mizu at 8:19 PM on March 4 [8 favorites]
The Slotkin response speech is pretty good.
So... Trump was supposed to announce a big thing today. What was it?
posted by netowl at 8:21 PM on March 4 [2 favorites]
So... Trump was supposed to announce a big thing today. What was it?
posted by netowl at 8:21 PM on March 4 [2 favorites]
God you know it's bad when folks are boxing up the booze.
next thing you know there's going to be midnight Joy rides between Sarnia and Port Huron, boats loaded with whiskey and cigarettes.
posted by clavdivs at 8:32 PM on March 4 [1 favorite]
next thing you know there's going to be midnight Joy rides between Sarnia and Port Huron, boats loaded with whiskey and cigarettes.
posted by clavdivs at 8:32 PM on March 4 [1 favorite]
a big thing today. What was it?
Goldendome, probably. Or maybe the Blackrock port acquisition.
posted by snuffleupagus at 8:34 PM on March 4
Goldendome, probably. Or maybe the Blackrock port acquisition.
posted by snuffleupagus at 8:34 PM on March 4
Bernie’s response
And I'm sure that, as usual, People will Listen to the Voice of Reason.
posted by Greg_Ace at 8:38 PM on March 4 [5 favorites]
And I'm sure that, as usual, People will Listen to the Voice of Reason.
posted by Greg_Ace at 8:38 PM on March 4 [5 favorites]
Of course they won’t, but for me it’s at least nice to hear someone else complaining about the same things I want to complain about. Gotta keep my rage at a low simmer so I’m not completely boiled away when shit hits my specific fan.
posted by Mizu at 8:41 PM on March 4 [10 favorites]
posted by Mizu at 8:41 PM on March 4 [10 favorites]
a big thing today. What was it?
Goldendome, probably.
That was what I thought when he announced it... but then he just dropped it in seconds. It didn't need to go on as long as the Social Security "fraud" stuff, but I'd expect any major announcement to go for a minute and an applause.
posted by netowl at 8:45 PM on March 4
Goldendome, probably.
That was what I thought when he announced it... but then he just dropped it in seconds. It didn't need to go on as long as the Social Security "fraud" stuff, but I'd expect any major announcement to go for a minute and an applause.
posted by netowl at 8:45 PM on March 4
the office of shipbuilding.
will there be a space traveler's guild
It's just a rumor that was spread around town.
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 8:45 PM on March 4 [17 favorites]
will there be a space traveler's guild
It's just a rumor that was spread around town.
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 8:45 PM on March 4 [17 favorites]
Whose the guy with the cane who won't sit? Keeps shouting?
The only Democrat with a backbone?
posted by dg at 9:27 PM on March 4 [19 favorites]
The only Democrat with a backbone?
posted by dg at 9:27 PM on March 4 [19 favorites]
boats loaded with whiskey and cigarettes.
Yes please.
posted by vrakatar at 9:34 PM on March 4 [2 favorites]
Yes please.
posted by vrakatar at 9:34 PM on March 4 [2 favorites]
the Drudge Report headlines tell a story ...
LUTNICK SIGNALS WHITE FLAG COMING ON TARIFFS...
STOCKS NOW NEGATIVE SINCE ELECTION...
NASDAQ TEASES CORRECTION...
TRADE WAR ESCALATES...
Ontario leader threatens to shut off power to USA...
Truckers Feel Blunt Impact...
PRICES OF FRUITS AND VEGETABLES TO 'INCREASE WITHIN DAYS'...
Agriculture Boss tells Americans to Raise Their Own Chickens...
BURNS: Pride cometh before a fall...
posted by philip-random at 9:42 PM on March 4 [7 favorites]
LUTNICK SIGNALS WHITE FLAG COMING ON TARIFFS...
STOCKS NOW NEGATIVE SINCE ELECTION...
NASDAQ TEASES CORRECTION...
TRADE WAR ESCALATES...
Ontario leader threatens to shut off power to USA...
Truckers Feel Blunt Impact...
PRICES OF FRUITS AND VEGETABLES TO 'INCREASE WITHIN DAYS'...
Agriculture Boss tells Americans to Raise Their Own Chickens...
BURNS: Pride cometh before a fall...
posted by philip-random at 9:42 PM on March 4 [7 favorites]
boats loaded with whiskey and cigarettes
let's go, smokes
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 10:23 PM on March 4
let's go, smokes
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 10:23 PM on March 4
Is it two years to the next Congressional elections,? in the meantime Trump is an absolute King.
posted by Narrative_Historian at 10:38 PM on March 4
posted by Narrative_Historian at 10:38 PM on March 4
and he's installed hardcore loyalists at the Federal Election Commission.
posted by zaixfeep at 11:19 PM on March 4 [6 favorites]
posted by zaixfeep at 11:19 PM on March 4 [6 favorites]
Speaker Johnson knows it is there cuz shitstain keep turning to the left. He saw it. Watch his eyes.
But what if it's not a coke booger but rather evidence of his ongoing dissolving into a squamous pillar of H.P. Lovecraftian nacreous sheen? As in The Manwich Horror.
posted by y2karl at 12:50 AM on March 5 [7 favorites]
But what if it's not a coke booger but rather evidence of his ongoing dissolving into a squamous pillar of H.P. Lovecraftian nacreous sheen? As in The Manwich Horror.
posted by y2karl at 12:50 AM on March 5 [7 favorites]
nah, it's just a bit of brain he's not using
posted by mbo at 1:03 AM on March 5 [4 favorites]
posted by mbo at 1:03 AM on March 5 [4 favorites]
Not just loyalists at the election commission... From the other thread:
This admin has 1) removed election security from the budget of the department of homeland security, 2) fired cyber security personnel and instructed remaining personnel to ignore Russian threats, 3) fired personnel at the FBI and CISA who had worked on protecting elections (including both investigating foreign propaganda and disinformation and investigating cyberattacks and attempts to disrupt voting systems), 4) installed two DOGE employees at CISA, 5) declared that government attempts to block foreign misinformation are suppressing free speech.
The voter suppression Republicans did in 2024 (removing minorities from voter rolls, rolling back 2020 laws that expanded early and mail in voting) plus election interference in 2024 (Russians calling in bomb threats to polling places, whatever trump was talking about when he said musk knew all about the voting machines) were enough, with lower overall voter energy compared to 2020, to tip the scales over to Trump, so I really don't know, unless a massive an undeniable number of MAGAs really do come to their senses.
posted by subdee at 1:03 AM on March 5 [15 favorites]
This admin has 1) removed election security from the budget of the department of homeland security, 2) fired cyber security personnel and instructed remaining personnel to ignore Russian threats, 3) fired personnel at the FBI and CISA who had worked on protecting elections (including both investigating foreign propaganda and disinformation and investigating cyberattacks and attempts to disrupt voting systems), 4) installed two DOGE employees at CISA, 5) declared that government attempts to block foreign misinformation are suppressing free speech.
The voter suppression Republicans did in 2024 (removing minorities from voter rolls, rolling back 2020 laws that expanded early and mail in voting) plus election interference in 2024 (Russians calling in bomb threats to polling places, whatever trump was talking about when he said musk knew all about the voting machines) were enough, with lower overall voter energy compared to 2020, to tip the scales over to Trump, so I really don't know, unless a massive an undeniable number of MAGAs really do come to their senses.
posted by subdee at 1:03 AM on March 5 [15 favorites]
There’s no way that this doesn’t end in horrific violence. We are living behind enemy lines now.
posted by reedbird_hill at 2:32 AM on March 5 [11 favorites]
posted by reedbird_hill at 2:32 AM on March 5 [11 favorites]
“We are in the process of the second American Revolution, which will remain bloodless – if the left allows it to be."
posted by torokunai2 at 3:23 AM on March 5 [10 favorites]
posted by torokunai2 at 3:23 AM on March 5 [10 favorites]
From today's Bloomberg newsletter:
Five things you need to know
- German stocks are surging and bund yields are climbing after chancellor in waiting Friedrich Merz said the country will unlock hundreds of billions of euros for defense and infrastructure investments in a dramatic shift that upends its ironclad controls on government borrowing.
- President Donald Trump told Americans there could be more discomfort ahead as markets flashed warning signs about the US economy. He defended his use of tariffs.
- US stocks are pointing to a higher open after a wild ride yesterday. The market slumped as the trade war heated up, only to rebound after the close on signs Trump may back off on some of his tariffs.
- The BlackRock-led acquisition of Panama Canal ports is one of the year’s biggest deals and a win for Trump. BlackRock’s Larry Fink has benefited from his direct line to the White House. Shares of the seller, CK Hutchison, soared 22% in Hong Kong.
- China set a forceful economic growth goal at about 5% for 2025 and increased the target for the budget deficit, raising expectations for officials to unleash more stimulus. Stocks rallied.
posted by mumimor at 3:56 AM on March 5 [4 favorites]
Five things you need to know
- German stocks are surging and bund yields are climbing after chancellor in waiting Friedrich Merz said the country will unlock hundreds of billions of euros for defense and infrastructure investments in a dramatic shift that upends its ironclad controls on government borrowing.
- President Donald Trump told Americans there could be more discomfort ahead as markets flashed warning signs about the US economy. He defended his use of tariffs.
- US stocks are pointing to a higher open after a wild ride yesterday. The market slumped as the trade war heated up, only to rebound after the close on signs Trump may back off on some of his tariffs.
- The BlackRock-led acquisition of Panama Canal ports is one of the year’s biggest deals and a win for Trump. BlackRock’s Larry Fink has benefited from his direct line to the White House. Shares of the seller, CK Hutchison, soared 22% in Hong Kong.
- China set a forceful economic growth goal at about 5% for 2025 and increased the target for the budget deficit, raising expectations for officials to unleash more stimulus. Stocks rallied.
posted by mumimor at 3:56 AM on March 5 [4 favorites]
German stocks are surging and bund yields are climbing after chancellor in waiting Friedrich Merz said the country will unlock hundreds of billions of euros for defense and infrastructure investments in a dramatic shift that upends its ironclad controls on government borrowing.
Per Bloomberg this morning (paywalled), the EU is funding defense spending by gutting climate efforts.
posted by reedbird_hill at 4:52 AM on March 5 [9 favorites]
Per Bloomberg this morning (paywalled), the EU is funding defense spending by gutting climate efforts.
posted by reedbird_hill at 4:52 AM on March 5 [9 favorites]
So where's Biden in all of this? Shouldn't he be out there at least defending his own legacy?
I know where Harris is. She's in my inbox asking me for more money.
posted by RonButNotStupid at 5:21 AM on March 5 [20 favorites]
I know where Harris is. She's in my inbox asking me for more money.
posted by RonButNotStupid at 5:21 AM on March 5 [20 favorites]
Dems planning to show their opposition by color coordinating.
I guess there are rules against them waving white flags.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 6:08 AM on March 5 [22 favorites]
I guess there are rules against them waving white flags.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 6:08 AM on March 5 [22 favorites]
President Donald Trump told Americans there could be more discomfort ahead as markets flashed warning signs about the US economy. He defended his use of tariffs.
What I love about this is that this is NOT what his idiot supporters signed up for (cheaper everything! lower taxes! propserity!), and now they have to suffer alongside everyone else. Good job voting in a guy who is doing the opposite of what you hoped for, you absolute potatoes.
Prime Minister Trudeau's government is already tabling ways to support any Canadian whose livelihood will be impacted by the tariffs. I think we can assume the US government is not doing to do the same for your people whose jobs will be harmed.
posted by Kitteh at 6:13 AM on March 5 [14 favorites]
What I love about this is that this is NOT what his idiot supporters signed up for (cheaper everything! lower taxes! propserity!), and now they have to suffer alongside everyone else. Good job voting in a guy who is doing the opposite of what you hoped for, you absolute potatoes.
Prime Minister Trudeau's government is already tabling ways to support any Canadian whose livelihood will be impacted by the tariffs. I think we can assume the US government is not doing to do the same for your people whose jobs will be harmed.
posted by Kitteh at 6:13 AM on March 5 [14 favorites]
Well... I hate to say it but Trump did speak one important truth last night and it's really the core of the problem.
Donald Trump really has done more and bigger things in the past 45 days than most Presidents have in 4 to 8 years.
In fact, uncharacteristically, he undersold himself. Trump has done more in the past 45 days than all the Presidents (including himself) have done combined in the past 25 years.
In fact, he really undersold it, because he personally has done more new things, changed more, and shaped the US govenrment more in the past 45 days than the combined Presidents and Congress have managed in the past 25 years.
Now every single thing he's done is bad, harmful, destructive, and generally terrible. But he's been doing those things, and they are big sweeping things. He's also done it illegally by the simple expedient of ignoring the law, and that's important too.
And that, I'd argue, is the real root of the problem that created Trump.
Our government has been essentially nonfunctional for my entire adult life. It takes a trifecta for either Party to do anything and even then it happens by basiclaly cheating. I'd argue in large part this is due to the anticorruption measure of ending Congressional earmarks because without that system of naked bribery Congresspeople (especially Republicans) had no reason to vote with the other party and every reason to form a solid bloc and just refuse to let anything happen.
But whatever the cause, the effect has been easy to see: Congress does nothing, the President can't do much, and in part that's why so much social progress has happened through the courts becuase at least there shit COULD get done even if it was uncertain and difficult.
Enter Trump who has deputized Musk to take a chainsaw to the entire Federal government. They're tearing shit up at semi-random, breaking laws and violating the Constitution, and critically, it's working and they're getting away with it.
Even if the Supreme Court eventually says he can't really fire all those people and cut all that funding, the damage is already done. By letting it happen even for a very short period it's devistated agencies, many people won't come back even if they're invited back, and no one can trust that the govenrment will actually exist and do what it says anymore.
Internationally he's also done more than any prior president, and again it's all bad but it's happening and he's moving while previously we've had things frozen. Turns out that having treaties that can be ended on Presidential whim is a bad idea, who'd have guessed?
I don't know what the solution is, or if there is one. But I don't think America as it has been can survive and I've got no clue how a new America can come into being without massive violence.
I'd say Trump is laying the groundwork for imposing martial law with his bullshit about "taking back our cities", but I don't think he's the sort of person who bothers laying groundwork. When he does it, and he will, it'll happen quickly and via an executive order signed in Sharpie and then... I don't know.
RonButNotStupid I'm down for hate on the Dems as much as any leftie, but why should we expect former people who have left office and aren't seeking office to do anything?
Ask what Schumer and Jefferies are doing, they are in office and hold power. Biden and Harris are historic footnotes with no role to play in current affairs.
posted by sotonohito at 6:13 AM on March 5 [54 favorites]
Donald Trump really has done more and bigger things in the past 45 days than most Presidents have in 4 to 8 years.
In fact, uncharacteristically, he undersold himself. Trump has done more in the past 45 days than all the Presidents (including himself) have done combined in the past 25 years.
In fact, he really undersold it, because he personally has done more new things, changed more, and shaped the US govenrment more in the past 45 days than the combined Presidents and Congress have managed in the past 25 years.
Now every single thing he's done is bad, harmful, destructive, and generally terrible. But he's been doing those things, and they are big sweeping things. He's also done it illegally by the simple expedient of ignoring the law, and that's important too.
And that, I'd argue, is the real root of the problem that created Trump.
Our government has been essentially nonfunctional for my entire adult life. It takes a trifecta for either Party to do anything and even then it happens by basiclaly cheating. I'd argue in large part this is due to the anticorruption measure of ending Congressional earmarks because without that system of naked bribery Congresspeople (especially Republicans) had no reason to vote with the other party and every reason to form a solid bloc and just refuse to let anything happen.
But whatever the cause, the effect has been easy to see: Congress does nothing, the President can't do much, and in part that's why so much social progress has happened through the courts becuase at least there shit COULD get done even if it was uncertain and difficult.
Enter Trump who has deputized Musk to take a chainsaw to the entire Federal government. They're tearing shit up at semi-random, breaking laws and violating the Constitution, and critically, it's working and they're getting away with it.
Even if the Supreme Court eventually says he can't really fire all those people and cut all that funding, the damage is already done. By letting it happen even for a very short period it's devistated agencies, many people won't come back even if they're invited back, and no one can trust that the govenrment will actually exist and do what it says anymore.
Internationally he's also done more than any prior president, and again it's all bad but it's happening and he's moving while previously we've had things frozen. Turns out that having treaties that can be ended on Presidential whim is a bad idea, who'd have guessed?
I don't know what the solution is, or if there is one. But I don't think America as it has been can survive and I've got no clue how a new America can come into being without massive violence.
I'd say Trump is laying the groundwork for imposing martial law with his bullshit about "taking back our cities", but I don't think he's the sort of person who bothers laying groundwork. When he does it, and he will, it'll happen quickly and via an executive order signed in Sharpie and then... I don't know.
RonButNotStupid I'm down for hate on the Dems as much as any leftie, but why should we expect former people who have left office and aren't seeking office to do anything?
Ask what Schumer and Jefferies are doing, they are in office and hold power. Biden and Harris are historic footnotes with no role to play in current affairs.
posted by sotonohito at 6:13 AM on March 5 [54 favorites]
Cheers to everyone whose spouse is a source of comfort in these trying times. Seldom-seen MeFite/my spouse Comrade Doll grew up in authoritarian Romania and she is not reassuring at all.
"We can't keep living like this for much longer!"
"That's what you think."
posted by DirtyOldTown at 6:19 AM on March 5 [51 favorites]
"We can't keep living like this for much longer!"
"That's what you think."
posted by DirtyOldTown at 6:19 AM on March 5 [51 favorites]
Per Bloomberg this morning (paywalled), the EU is funding defense spending by gutting climate efforts.
Yes. It's shitty. And the UK is gutting foreign aid. There are two reasons for it: the first is that there is a real existential threat to all of Europe right now. As someone put it rather bluntly the other day: since we will have to fight Russia, it is better to do it in Ukraine than in the Baltics. (For tactical and strategic reasons).
The other is that a whole lot of European countries have right wing but not fascist governments that are very different from that in the US, in that they will not accept any undermining of the various social benefits or healthcare. They will also not accept higher taxes or excessive debt. So we have to take some of the money from somewhere else. It stinks but right now, we can't change the political reality.
(I can't explain why Starmer is gutting foreign aid, but I suspect the UK is so broken economically after endless Tory mismanagement that he has nowhere to go9.
posted by mumimor at 6:20 AM on March 5 [7 favorites]
Yes. It's shitty. And the UK is gutting foreign aid. There are two reasons for it: the first is that there is a real existential threat to all of Europe right now. As someone put it rather bluntly the other day: since we will have to fight Russia, it is better to do it in Ukraine than in the Baltics. (For tactical and strategic reasons).
The other is that a whole lot of European countries have right wing but not fascist governments that are very different from that in the US, in that they will not accept any undermining of the various social benefits or healthcare. They will also not accept higher taxes or excessive debt. So we have to take some of the money from somewhere else. It stinks but right now, we can't change the political reality.
(I can't explain why Starmer is gutting foreign aid, but I suspect the UK is so broken economically after endless Tory mismanagement that he has nowhere to go9.
posted by mumimor at 6:20 AM on March 5 [7 favorites]
why should we expect former people who have left office and aren't seeking office to do anything?
Because he was our leader? Because he has experience and authority and respectability? Because there's still a job to be done?
At a time when we could sure use a singular, unifying voice to speak out against what's going on, who better than the guy that held the position up until a month and a half ago?
posted by RonButNotStupid at 6:20 AM on March 5 [4 favorites]
Because he was our leader? Because he has experience and authority and respectability? Because there's still a job to be done?
At a time when we could sure use a singular, unifying voice to speak out against what's going on, who better than the guy that held the position up until a month and a half ago?
posted by RonButNotStupid at 6:20 AM on March 5 [4 favorites]
Donald Trump really has done more and bigger things in the past 45 days than most Presidents have in 4 to 8 years. ... I don't know what the solution is, or if there is one.
Would a unitary parliamentary government help?
posted by clawsoon at 6:23 AM on March 5 [1 favorite]
Would a unitary parliamentary government help?
posted by clawsoon at 6:23 AM on March 5 [1 favorite]
i doubt biden is capable of much more than a letter to the people
posted by pyramid termite at 6:24 AM on March 5 [8 favorites]
posted by pyramid termite at 6:24 AM on March 5 [8 favorites]
Would a unitary parliamentary government help?
'cause I mean, like, look at how many similar shitty things the Conservatives were able to do in the UK at a reasonable pace over 12 yearss.
posted by clawsoon at 6:25 AM on March 5 [2 favorites]
'cause I mean, like, look at how many similar shitty things the Conservatives were able to do in the UK at a reasonable pace over 12 yearss.
posted by clawsoon at 6:25 AM on March 5 [2 favorites]
Biden isn't well. And I don't want to see him ever again.
posted by tiny frying pan at 6:26 AM on March 5 [15 favorites]
posted by tiny frying pan at 6:26 AM on March 5 [15 favorites]
FYI 'tabling' something has the exact opposite meaning in 'British" vs. 'US' English.
posted by achrise at 6:40 AM on March 5 [9 favorites]
posted by achrise at 6:40 AM on March 5 [9 favorites]
Let's see... rant, rant, transphobia, transphobia, transphobia... lie where his entire team proves their lack of reading skills by confusing "transgenic" with "transgender"... lie, lie, stupidity, bombastic pronouncement, bombastic pronouncement, lie, pointing out a horrible guest.... more transphobic pronouncements...
And this is just me reading a summary. I probably would have really gotten messed up if I had actually watched it.
Christ, what a nasty bag of assholes.
posted by mephron at 6:42 AM on March 5 [7 favorites]
And this is just me reading a summary. I probably would have really gotten messed up if I had actually watched it.
Christ, what a nasty bag of assholes.
posted by mephron at 6:42 AM on March 5 [7 favorites]
no one can trust that the govenrment will actually exist and do what it says anymore.
This is really the thing. The rubes thought they were electing Tywin Lannister when they were really voting in Walder Frey. Once we know -- and the world knows -- our word is worthless, what then? We have no true friends, and we aren't friends to each other. It's the biggest unforced error I have seen this nation make in my lifetime, and my lifetime includes both Gulf wars.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 6:47 AM on March 5 [27 favorites]
This is really the thing. The rubes thought they were electing Tywin Lannister when they were really voting in Walder Frey. Once we know -- and the world knows -- our word is worthless, what then? We have no true friends, and we aren't friends to each other. It's the biggest unforced error I have seen this nation make in my lifetime, and my lifetime includes both Gulf wars.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 6:47 AM on March 5 [27 favorites]
who better than the guy that held the position up until a month and a half ago?
The Man, Obama.
The Man, Obama.
On the fifteenth day since our battle the man Obama took me to the side, and pointed at a distant light in the eastern sky. “We have been spotted by my lookouts. They light a beacon to call us home.” The next day we could see the source of the light; a pillar of fire twenty feet high, gripped in an enormous green hand, twice the height of a man.posted by snuffleupagus at 7:12 AM on March 5 [8 favorites]
Barrister gasped, “That... That’s the—“
“The Lady,” Obama agreed. “What little of her we could salvage.”
He turned to us, as we passed beneath the shadows of the two gateposts of Obama’s camp, between the huge green arm and the crowned head, and opened his arms. “Welcome, friends, old and new, to the camp of the Outlaw Prince. Welcome to the last free city in America. Welcome to the last bastion of democracy. Welcome home.”
Donald Trump really has done more and bigger things in the past 45 days than most Presidents have in 4 to 8 years.
Wait I'm getting some new information... you do not, under any circumstances, gotta hand it to them
posted by rhymedirective at 7:35 AM on March 5 [17 favorites]
Wait I'm getting some new information... you do not, under any circumstances, gotta hand it to them
posted by rhymedirective at 7:35 AM on March 5 [17 favorites]
> you do not, under any circumstances, gotta hand it to them
But you do have to acknowledge that what they're doing is remarkable and actually quite hard, and they're doing the things that they want to do quite effectively.
The thing they want to do is end the American project.
posted by constraint at 7:41 AM on March 5 [9 favorites]
But you do have to acknowledge that what they're doing is remarkable and actually quite hard, and they're doing the things that they want to do quite effectively.
The thing they want to do is end the American project.
posted by constraint at 7:41 AM on March 5 [9 favorites]
But you do have to acknowledge that what they're doing is remarkable and actually quite hard
I mean, no? Fuck this attitude.
It's not hard to break things. You just have to have no one that's trying to stop you.
posted by rhymedirective at 7:46 AM on March 5 [43 favorites]
I mean, no? Fuck this attitude.
It's not hard to break things. You just have to have no one that's trying to stop you.
posted by rhymedirective at 7:46 AM on March 5 [43 favorites]
What they are doing is very easy, if no one stops them; it would be hard for you or I or anyone burdened with conscience, morality, or a meager ability to look forward, but it's not hard for them to do it.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 7:47 AM on March 5 [11 favorites]
posted by kittens for breakfast at 7:47 AM on March 5 [11 favorites]
What they are doing is very easy, if no one stops them;
I think they recognized that the Democratic resistance at the top leadership level is pretty weak and does things in extremely measured fashion and on long timelines - and often pushed action down on protesters and individual people - it sucks when your enemy is savvier than you are, but here we are.
posted by The_Vegetables at 7:57 AM on March 5 [16 favorites]
I think they recognized that the Democratic resistance at the top leadership level is pretty weak and does things in extremely measured fashion and on long timelines - and often pushed action down on protesters and individual people - it sucks when your enemy is savvier than you are, but here we are.
posted by The_Vegetables at 7:57 AM on March 5 [16 favorites]
The hard parts have been in the works for years and decades while the Dems moved to the 'center' and watched the line go up.
It's not just Trump's base who's in the "finding out" stage.
posted by snuffleupagus at 8:45 AM on March 5 [21 favorites]
It's not just Trump's base who's in the "finding out" stage.
posted by snuffleupagus at 8:45 AM on March 5 [21 favorites]
Ta-Nehisi Coates: "“We are at a moment right now where people are asking themselves why can’t the Democratic Party defend this assault on democracy . . . and I would submit to you that if you can’t draw the line at genocide, you probably can’t draw the line at democracy.”
posted by Kitteh at 8:59 AM on March 5 [52 favorites]
posted by Kitteh at 8:59 AM on March 5 [52 favorites]
who better than the guy that held the position up until a month and a half ago?
Democratic Presidents still adhere to the genteel mannerism that no President should criticize another, especially their successor.
It's batshit considering the times we are in, but that's why it isn't happening.
posted by Rumple at 9:00 AM on March 5 [6 favorites]
Democratic Presidents still adhere to the genteel mannerism that no President should criticize another, especially their successor.
It's batshit considering the times we are in, but that's why it isn't happening.
posted by Rumple at 9:00 AM on March 5 [6 favorites]
there was no way I could have watched this. I hate hearing his voice (and his words) and I cannot stand to see his loathsome face. so thank you to those who did watch, I salute you.
and thank you to this thread, which has made me laugh a couple of times, which really, considering...
and then I asked mr supermedusa to seek an academic position overseas STAT.
posted by supermedusa at 9:03 AM on March 5 [10 favorites]
and thank you to this thread, which has made me laugh a couple of times, which really, considering...
and then I asked mr supermedusa to seek an academic position overseas STAT.
posted by supermedusa at 9:03 AM on March 5 [10 favorites]
The other is that a whole lot of European countries have right wing but not fascist governments that are very different from that in the US, in that they will not accept any undermining of the various social benefits or healthcare
Welcome to Finland, the most happy place in the world where the far right is doing just this, and generally in the business of fucking things up for everyone who is not them (money greedy soulless fascists). Finland has sometimes from the 70's-80's on been called the most USA-like country in Europe, now we are finally reaping the benefits! (Back then the benefits were things like cool jeans and cars and cigarettes and TV shows like Bonanza or Jake and the Fatman.)
posted by fridgebuzz at 9:57 AM on March 5 [3 favorites]
Welcome to Finland, the most happy place in the world where the far right is doing just this, and generally in the business of fucking things up for everyone who is not them (money greedy soulless fascists). Finland has sometimes from the 70's-80's on been called the most USA-like country in Europe, now we are finally reaping the benefits! (Back then the benefits were things like cool jeans and cars and cigarettes and TV shows like Bonanza or Jake and the Fatman.)
posted by fridgebuzz at 9:57 AM on March 5 [3 favorites]
A big reason the US government is seen as so ineffectual is because one of the parties stopped compromising in order to enact things the populace wants. They want voters to be angry and unsatisfied, so why give them anything? Because they rile people up over wedge issues, they don’t need to deliver anything. And over the course of generations, the things the government does provide, like making food safe or building roads or Social Security, these things become invisible or taken for granted or assumed that by the time we need them they’ll be gone already.
Any propaganda that’s repeated often enough begins to stick, no matter how untrue. So now even people who believe in the federal project are skeptical and assume it’s ineffectual. This isn’t helped by things like the awful rollout of Obamacare, or the lack of needed programs or oversight blocked by said party that refuses to compromise.
The rich assholes of America want to destroy the national government that taxes them. Utterly destroy it. And they are winning.
posted by rikschell at 9:59 AM on March 5 [23 favorites]
Any propaganda that’s repeated often enough begins to stick, no matter how untrue. So now even people who believe in the federal project are skeptical and assume it’s ineffectual. This isn’t helped by things like the awful rollout of Obamacare, or the lack of needed programs or oversight blocked by said party that refuses to compromise.
The rich assholes of America want to destroy the national government that taxes them. Utterly destroy it. And they are winning.
posted by rikschell at 9:59 AM on March 5 [23 favorites]
Because he was our leader? Because he has experience and authority and respectability? Because there's still a job to be done?
At a time when we could sure use a singular, unifying voice to speak out against what's going on, who better than the guy that held the position up until a month and a half ago?
That's rich. After all the shit folks here piled on Joe, NOW you think he is somehow obligated to re-join the fray and save us? Please. Leave the guy alone to finish out his remaining time here in peace.
posted by sundrop at 10:35 AM on March 5 [8 favorites]
At a time when we could sure use a singular, unifying voice to speak out against what's going on, who better than the guy that held the position up until a month and a half ago?
That's rich. After all the shit folks here piled on Joe, NOW you think he is somehow obligated to re-join the fray and save us? Please. Leave the guy alone to finish out his remaining time here in peace.
posted by sundrop at 10:35 AM on March 5 [8 favorites]
Whatever you think of Biden, he's past it. It wouldn't help.
Obama is not; and sooner or later he is going to need to abandon decorum and his above-it-all air and engage. If he cares about his legacy, it may turn more on what he does now as much as what he did when he was in office.
Which included continuing and enlarging the post 9-11 security state, letting the neoliberal drift run away with itself while avoiding 'drama' with the remnants of the Clinton wing, and not going to the mat over his denied judicial appointments.
He hates Trump. And he's good at dunking on him. It's time.
posted by snuffleupagus at 10:48 AM on March 5 [10 favorites]
Obama is not; and sooner or later he is going to need to abandon decorum and his above-it-all air and engage. If he cares about his legacy, it may turn more on what he does now as much as what he did when he was in office.
Which included continuing and enlarging the post 9-11 security state, letting the neoliberal drift run away with itself while avoiding 'drama' with the remnants of the Clinton wing, and not going to the mat over his denied judicial appointments.
He hates Trump. And he's good at dunking on him. It's time.
posted by snuffleupagus at 10:48 AM on March 5 [10 favorites]
This 15-second excerpt from Leeja Miller's podcast (@10:13) — DJT describing then-newborn son Barron — shows in clear terms what he values. (I'm trying to imagine a 'violent','vicious' baby.)
posted by zaixfeep at 12:17 PM on March 5 [1 favorite]
posted by zaixfeep at 12:17 PM on March 5 [1 favorite]
Maybe it's time to stop looking backward for solutions. Invoking Obama just starts a whole debate about was Obama really all that great and etc. Ultimately, Obama is not going to be president again.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 12:56 PM on March 5 [7 favorites]
posted by kittens for breakfast at 12:56 PM on March 5 [7 favorites]
'violent', 'vicious'
What bothers me the most is that Trump is just acting. He is violent and vicious like a school bully, beating up the tiny class nerd with two others, because they are cowards who can't and won't take on someone their own size. It doesn't look tough, it looks ridiculous and it's humiliating for the US to have a leader like that.
In a way, there is a parallel to the demise of Russia here: yes, the US (and Russia back then) has a huge military and lots of stuff. But no-one wants to play with them anymore because they are boring bullies. And in the longer run, that means the country becomes impoverished and run over by crooks.
I don't want the US to end like that, but I have no idea how to explain to MAGA and the Republicans that is what is happening.
posted by mumimor at 1:08 PM on March 5 [7 favorites]
What bothers me the most is that Trump is just acting. He is violent and vicious like a school bully, beating up the tiny class nerd with two others, because they are cowards who can't and won't take on someone their own size. It doesn't look tough, it looks ridiculous and it's humiliating for the US to have a leader like that.
In a way, there is a parallel to the demise of Russia here: yes, the US (and Russia back then) has a huge military and lots of stuff. But no-one wants to play with them anymore because they are boring bullies. And in the longer run, that means the country becomes impoverished and run over by crooks.
I don't want the US to end like that, but I have no idea how to explain to MAGA and the Republicans that is what is happening.
posted by mumimor at 1:08 PM on March 5 [7 favorites]
What I love about this is that this is NOT what his idiot supporters signed up for (cheaper everything! lower taxes! propserity!), and now they have to suffer alongside everyone else.
But, if you ask them, they're not suffering! Things are going well, everyone is happy, the economy is booming and the world is falling over themselves to admire and respect America!
That's what they want to hear, that's what they're being told and that's what they believe. Because there's nobody with any credibility or authority telling them anything else! The only person I've seen doing any real pushing back in Sanders and he gives off too much of an old man shouting at the sea vibe for most people to consider him credible (although he's exactly right). It's not Biden or Obama that should be speaking up, it's whoever are the likely candidates for the next President that need to get off their arses and start talking to people and, you know, actually doing their job.
posted by dg at 1:30 PM on March 5 [9 favorites]
But, if you ask them, they're not suffering! Things are going well, everyone is happy, the economy is booming and the world is falling over themselves to admire and respect America!
That's what they want to hear, that's what they're being told and that's what they believe. Because there's nobody with any credibility or authority telling them anything else! The only person I've seen doing any real pushing back in Sanders and he gives off too much of an old man shouting at the sea vibe for most people to consider him credible (although he's exactly right). It's not Biden or Obama that should be speaking up, it's whoever are the likely candidates for the next President that need to get off their arses and start talking to people and, you know, actually doing their job.
posted by dg at 1:30 PM on March 5 [9 favorites]
There are some new forceful plain-spoken and jargon-free voices emerging that I hope go more genuinely national.
Sen. Chris Murphy (CT). He looks like your average suit, but don't be put off by that. His bluntness here is very effective. Here's a 2-minute sample summary of Trump's goals.
Also check out Sen. Brian Schatz (HI). He gives an incredibly effective well-reasoned speech that puts the usual suspects to shame. Here's a 13-minute sample speech outlining Trump's goals.
posted by Violet Blue at 1:33 PM on March 5 [8 favorites]
Sen. Chris Murphy (CT). He looks like your average suit, but don't be put off by that. His bluntness here is very effective. Here's a 2-minute sample summary of Trump's goals.
Also check out Sen. Brian Schatz (HI). He gives an incredibly effective well-reasoned speech that puts the usual suspects to shame. Here's a 13-minute sample speech outlining Trump's goals.
posted by Violet Blue at 1:33 PM on March 5 [8 favorites]
Is Trump allowed to pull Obama’s secret service protection? Because, while I’d admire somebody brave enough to work till the end for his ideals, there’s a fear aspect in play. Imagine the crosshairs on him if Trump announces he stopped his secret service protection as he started pushing against Trump.
posted by WaterAndPixels at 3:12 PM on March 5
posted by WaterAndPixels at 3:12 PM on March 5
it sucks when your enemy is savvier than you are, but here we are.
Savvy is not the word. Callous, cruel, short-sighted, vengeful, oafish and self-serving maybe. Savviness implies the kind of intelligence that would preclude setting light to the boat on which you are sailing just to watch the deckhands drown before you go down with it. Martial law cannot hold in a country the size of the US. Civil war is way more likely than decades long authoritarian rule under Christian nationalism.
posted by freya_lamb at 3:26 PM on March 5 [5 favorites]
Savvy is not the word. Callous, cruel, short-sighted, vengeful, oafish and self-serving maybe. Savviness implies the kind of intelligence that would preclude setting light to the boat on which you are sailing just to watch the deckhands drown before you go down with it. Martial law cannot hold in a country the size of the US. Civil war is way more likely than decades long authoritarian rule under Christian nationalism.
posted by freya_lamb at 3:26 PM on March 5 [5 favorites]
The Germans in 1939 and the Japanese in 1941 were not savvy, no. There has to be real punishment meted out for all the shit the GOP has pulled. Nixon's dirty tricks with Thieu, Reagan's with Iran. It's like the Globetrotters vs. Washington Generals out here.
posted by torokunai2 at 3:45 PM on March 5 [3 favorites]
posted by torokunai2 at 3:45 PM on March 5 [3 favorites]
I mean, Obama is rich. I don't think pulling his Secret Service detail is much of a threat. Hell, most of those guys would probably be happy to quit the Secret Service and work directly for Obama; Obama wouldn't threaten their job.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 3:50 PM on March 5 [1 favorite]
posted by kittens for breakfast at 3:50 PM on March 5 [1 favorite]
This is what I want to say to every opposition politician in our country right now (h/t Ed Harris' performance). Lady Liberty's ribs may end up cracked but that's what free healthcare is for.
posted by zaixfeep at 4:54 PM on March 5
posted by zaixfeep at 4:54 PM on March 5
I hear that Republicans have stopped doing townhalls, as they were getting a lot of angry feedback.
If that's the case, then why don't Democrats hold town halls in those areas? Either way they get to hold the conversation themselves or they force Republicans to appear at town halls. WIN WIN, yeah?
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 5:01 PM on March 5 [19 favorites]
If that's the case, then why don't Democrats hold town halls in those areas? Either way they get to hold the conversation themselves or they force Republicans to appear at town halls. WIN WIN, yeah?
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 5:01 PM on March 5 [19 favorites]
https://newrepublic.com/article/142562/democrats-shaming-republicans-holding-town-halls-gop-districts
Something like what they did in 2017?
I'd read that a few are doing this but make it a national strategy.
posted by subdee at 5:22 PM on March 5 [9 favorites]
Something like what they did in 2017?
I'd read that a few are doing this but make it a national strategy.
posted by subdee at 5:22 PM on March 5 [9 favorites]
I think most politicians who make it that far are in it for the ambition, not the public service. Trying to rebuild our government and our country after the kleptocrats dismantle it will be extremely difficult, divisive, and thankless. Not an appealing task for most Democrats in office.
posted by rikschell at 6:15 PM on March 5 [5 favorites]
posted by rikschell at 6:15 PM on March 5 [5 favorites]
Hell, most of those guys would probably be happy to quit the Secret Service and work directly for Obama;
There are a lot of resources available to SS personel that even the best private security lacks.
posted by Mitheral at 6:24 PM on March 5
There are a lot of resources available to SS personel that even the best private security lacks.
posted by Mitheral at 6:24 PM on March 5
In the same vein as Mitheral’s comment, don’t they also have special legal status? They’ve got to be able to carry weapons in places where civilian security wouldn’t.
I’m also puzzled by this silence, this does feel like a ‘break in case of emergency’ situation where decorum and tradition be damned, this is not normal.
posted by WaterAndPixels at 7:42 PM on March 5
I’m also puzzled by this silence, this does feel like a ‘break in case of emergency’ situation where decorum and tradition be damned, this is not normal.
posted by WaterAndPixels at 7:42 PM on March 5
It masquerades as dominance over the democrats, but it is really dominance over his own party
This Trump Speech Was the Ultimate Loyalty Test / The Ezra Klein Show with guest Aaron Retica
posted by mumimor at 3:18 AM on March 6 [1 favorite]
This Trump Speech Was the Ultimate Loyalty Test / The Ezra Klein Show with guest Aaron Retica
posted by mumimor at 3:18 AM on March 6 [1 favorite]
If that's the case, then why don't Democrats hold town halls in those areas? Either way they get to hold the conversation themselves or they force Republicans to appear at town halls. WIN WIN, yeah?
Because they are cowards? Well, most of them. The Democrats I see making the biggest stink are the ones who aren't white. The white Democrats will not save America. And Democratic supporters sure do deserve better.
posted by Kitteh at 5:06 AM on March 6 [8 favorites]
Because they are cowards? Well, most of them. The Democrats I see making the biggest stink are the ones who aren't white. The white Democrats will not save America. And Democratic supporters sure do deserve better.
posted by Kitteh at 5:06 AM on March 6 [8 favorites]
If that's the case, then why don't Democrats hold town halls in those areas? Either way they get to hold the conversation themselves or they force Republicans to appear at town halls. WIN WIN, yeah?
Walz is already doing this.
We really fucked up not having him as VP. If we do have a competitive contest in 2028 I really hope he runs.
posted by Your Childhood Pet Rock at 6:29 AM on March 6 [14 favorites]
Walz is already doing this.
We really fucked up not having him as VP. If we do have a competitive contest in 2028 I really hope he runs.
posted by Your Childhood Pet Rock at 6:29 AM on March 6 [14 favorites]
Walz! That's who it was.
I think he easily smashes the R candidate in 2028 with the caveat that the electoral process will be thoroughly corrupted by then.
posted by subdee at 7:06 AM on March 6 [5 favorites]
I think he easily smashes the R candidate in 2028 with the caveat that the electoral process will be thoroughly corrupted by then.
posted by subdee at 7:06 AM on March 6 [5 favorites]
Every once in a while I still can't believe it. It's Donald J. Trump? It's like reaching the end of The Usual Suspects and the big bad is Pauly Shore, or Carrot Top.
"Some hate the English. I don't. They're just wankers. We, on the other hand, are colonized by wankers. Can't even find a decent culture to be colonized by. We're ruled by effete arseholes."
posted by kirkaracha at 7:48 AM on March 6 [1 favorite]
"Some hate the English. I don't. They're just wankers. We, on the other hand, are colonized by wankers. Can't even find a decent culture to be colonized by. We're ruled by effete arseholes."
posted by kirkaracha at 7:48 AM on March 6 [1 favorite]
So the House just voted to censure Rep Green for his "outburst" during Trump's address.
All Republicans votes yes, and god help us 10 Democrats joined them with two voting "Presient".
Per ABC News the ten traitor Democrats who should all be primaried with maximum possible effort are:
"Reps. Ami Bera of California, Ed Case of Hawaii, Jim Costa of California, Laura Gillen of New York, Jim Himes of Connecticut, Chrissy Houlahan of Pennsylvania, Marcy Kaptur of Ohio, Jared Moskowitz of Florida, Marie Gluesenkamp Perez of Wahsingont and Tom Suozzi of New York."
The shame of last night is that more Democrats did not join Rep Green in his protest, ideally in series so as to maximize the disruption and cause the greatest possible delay.
The President is a traitor who is tearing apart the government illegally and ignoring his oath to the Constitution. It is a time for extraordinary action, not normalizing his efforts at despotism.
posted by sotonohito at 8:46 AM on March 6 [15 favorites]
All Republicans votes yes, and god help us 10 Democrats joined them with two voting "Presient".
Per ABC News the ten traitor Democrats who should all be primaried with maximum possible effort are:
"Reps. Ami Bera of California, Ed Case of Hawaii, Jim Costa of California, Laura Gillen of New York, Jim Himes of Connecticut, Chrissy Houlahan of Pennsylvania, Marcy Kaptur of Ohio, Jared Moskowitz of Florida, Marie Gluesenkamp Perez of Wahsingont and Tom Suozzi of New York."
The shame of last night is that more Democrats did not join Rep Green in his protest, ideally in series so as to maximize the disruption and cause the greatest possible delay.
The President is a traitor who is tearing apart the government illegally and ignoring his oath to the Constitution. It is a time for extraordinary action, not normalizing his efforts at despotism.
posted by sotonohito at 8:46 AM on March 6 [15 favorites]
This could have fit in the "Europe's done it all before" thread but I think its a better fit here. An article on the American Empire (they call it that directly), why it's good (lol), and why Trump will "lead to an age of decline" (buddy, please have you seen our social stats).
posted by Slackermagee at 9:31 AM on March 6 [1 favorite]
posted by Slackermagee at 9:31 AM on March 6 [1 favorite]
In Joe Wiesenthal and Tracy Alloway's Odd Lots newsletter, an interesting point about Trump: "One of my big hobby horses these days is that the world is becoming more ‘oral’ and that Trump has been a successful candidate because he has excellent intuitions about how to communicate in this new world." (Read the whole thing, it's too long to quote but it's really interesting.)
posted by mittens at 9:38 AM on March 6
posted by mittens at 9:38 AM on March 6
I miss Alexandra Petri right now, but Monica Hesse is on it: (archive link)
posted by jenfullmoon at 9:45 AM on March 6 [1 favorite]
posted by jenfullmoon at 9:45 AM on March 6 [1 favorite]
Imagine, for a moment, an alternate timeline wherein all (or at least many) Democrats had coordinated for maximum disruption and irritation by having Rep Green merely be the first, with dozens more following at random intervals.
Maybe the next happens five mintues later, maybe five seconds later, no one knows. Was that the last one, or is there another coming? No one knows. Randomness is one of the biggest mental hooks around, our brains latch onto it and keep trying to guess and anticipate.
Imagine the fury and annoyance to Trump such a random disruption might have created. The way it would have shown unity and been a demonstration of how the Democrats will not accept normalizing Trump's dictatorial ambitions and lawlessness.
Instead, like they do so often, the Democrats let the moment pass without exploiting it.
posted by sotonohito at 10:14 AM on March 6 [12 favorites]
Maybe the next happens five mintues later, maybe five seconds later, no one knows. Was that the last one, or is there another coming? No one knows. Randomness is one of the biggest mental hooks around, our brains latch onto it and keep trying to guess and anticipate.
Imagine the fury and annoyance to Trump such a random disruption might have created. The way it would have shown unity and been a demonstration of how the Democrats will not accept normalizing Trump's dictatorial ambitions and lawlessness.
Instead, like they do so often, the Democrats let the moment pass without exploiting it.
posted by sotonohito at 10:14 AM on March 6 [12 favorites]
I'm not sure a big Dem protest was the tactically correct choice... As satisfying as it would have been, then all the news coverage would have been about the protests and not the speech which would have entrenched Republican MAGA more...
I think Pelosi may have been right to tell Dems to "let him stew in his own juices" so the focus could instead be on just how unhinged that speech was... Hopefully it pulls more MAGA away. Trump's approval ratings after the state of the union went negative for the FIRST time since the elections although Republicans still largely support him.
I think the reality is we don't get out of this until Republican constituents pressure REPUBLICAN senators to stop playing along. And sadly we aren't anywhere close to there yet even with the economy tanking, all our alliances blowing up, and these bozos giving themselves hundreds of millions of dollars in government contracts while claiming we can't afford health or environmental protections or a basic social safety net.
Independents have turned big time, they now 69% disapprove of Trump/Musk. Republicans (at least before the speech) still 90% approve though. That's where the big problem is.
posted by subdee at 10:51 AM on March 6
I think Pelosi may have been right to tell Dems to "let him stew in his own juices" so the focus could instead be on just how unhinged that speech was... Hopefully it pulls more MAGA away. Trump's approval ratings after the state of the union went negative for the FIRST time since the elections although Republicans still largely support him.
I think the reality is we don't get out of this until Republican constituents pressure REPUBLICAN senators to stop playing along. And sadly we aren't anywhere close to there yet even with the economy tanking, all our alliances blowing up, and these bozos giving themselves hundreds of millions of dollars in government contracts while claiming we can't afford health or environmental protections or a basic social safety net.
Independents have turned big time, they now 69% disapprove of Trump/Musk. Republicans (at least before the speech) still 90% approve though. That's where the big problem is.
posted by subdee at 10:51 AM on March 6
I think Pelosi may have been right to tell Dems to "let him stew in his own juices" so the focus could instead be on just how unhinged that speech was
The general consensus is that his speech was fine. So that would be a terrible idea. His approval rating went down due to his stupid tariffs and driving consumer sentiment, GDP, and employment into the ground over the past month. People enjoy his words more than his actions, so you need to disrupt those too.
posted by The_Vegetables at 11:04 AM on March 6 [4 favorites]
The general consensus is that his speech was fine. So that would be a terrible idea. His approval rating went down due to his stupid tariffs and driving consumer sentiment, GDP, and employment into the ground over the past month. People enjoy his words more than his actions, so you need to disrupt those too.
posted by The_Vegetables at 11:04 AM on March 6 [4 favorites]
Sigh, I suppose that's right. If you've been marinating in rightwing news it probably was all stuff you've heard before and therefore fine.
posted by subdee at 11:59 AM on March 6
posted by subdee at 11:59 AM on March 6
The speech was just his regular rally speech with a few extra mentions of guests. If it was going to chase anyone away they were chased away years ago.
posted by sotonohito at 12:04 PM on March 6 [5 favorites]
posted by sotonohito at 12:04 PM on March 6 [5 favorites]
[T]he Supreme Court rebuffed the Trump administration in one of several outstanding legal fights over spending cuts. In a meeting with Musk, Senate Republicans told him to send his cuts to them for a vote.
On balance, this seems more good than bad if the executive starts including the Congress more.
posted by Violet Blue at 12:08 PM on March 6 [4 favorites]
On balance, this seems more good than bad if the executive starts including the Congress more.
posted by Violet Blue at 12:08 PM on March 6 [4 favorites]
Most* of the people who voted for Trump don't listen to anything he says. What they know about his speeches is what gets talked about on right wing news, which dilutes and repackages the message into reasonable sounding talking points, for certain definitions of reasonable, keeping in mind it's a population of viewers who have self selected to find people like Tucker Carlson and Bill O'Reilly reasonable.
*I'm extrapolating "most" based on "100% of the Trump voters I personally know" who daywalk as normal seeming people. The only people who actually listen to him talk are the whackadoos who go to his rallies, jackasses like us who are blighted by the curse of knowing, and like 3 college freshmen in Boulder who ate too many gummies and hyperfocused when someone left CSPAN on in the dorm's rec room.
posted by phunniemee at 12:17 PM on March 6 [6 favorites]
*I'm extrapolating "most" based on "100% of the Trump voters I personally know" who daywalk as normal seeming people. The only people who actually listen to him talk are the whackadoos who go to his rallies, jackasses like us who are blighted by the curse of knowing, and like 3 college freshmen in Boulder who ate too many gummies and hyperfocused when someone left CSPAN on in the dorm's rec room.
posted by phunniemee at 12:17 PM on March 6 [6 favorites]
A day or two ago, Katie Couric interviewed Edward Luce, the U.S. National Editor and columnist at the Financial Times on all things Europe. Toward the end of the interview (but I can't remember where), she commented on Vance and Gabbard writing hateful notes about Zelensky on social media, and asked Luce what he thought the point was. He opined that Zelensky has been under U.S. protection for the last three years, with Russia not daring to take him down. Now, however, official high-level slams suggest he is no longer under the U.S. protection, and that makes him a lot more unsafe in the world.
Nearly concurrently, it was reported that Top Trump allies hold secret talks with two hand-picked opponents to Zelensky in Ukraine's next election, which they've also been pushing for: Yulia Tymoshenko, the "gas princess," an oligarch made rich through deals with Russia, (who, not incidentally, also attended Trump's inauguration), and Petro Poroshenko, "the chocolate king," and former president whom Zelensky beat in the last election, and who was recently sanctioned by the Ukrainian government on national security (e.g. money laundering) grounds.
———
As a side note: For folks looking for gentle fact-friendly political news, I highly recommend both Katie Couric's YouTube channel and Jon Stewart's YouTube show The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart, which really shows off his political chops.
posted by Violet Blue at 12:39 PM on March 6 [5 favorites]
Nearly concurrently, it was reported that Top Trump allies hold secret talks with two hand-picked opponents to Zelensky in Ukraine's next election, which they've also been pushing for: Yulia Tymoshenko, the "gas princess," an oligarch made rich through deals with Russia, (who, not incidentally, also attended Trump's inauguration), and Petro Poroshenko, "the chocolate king," and former president whom Zelensky beat in the last election, and who was recently sanctioned by the Ukrainian government on national security (e.g. money laundering) grounds.
———
As a side note: For folks looking for gentle fact-friendly political news, I highly recommend both Katie Couric's YouTube channel and Jon Stewart's YouTube show The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart, which really shows off his political chops.
posted by Violet Blue at 12:39 PM on March 6 [5 favorites]
At least Democrats are finally holding him accountable!
By him, of course, I mean Al Green, whom 10 Democrats voted to censure because of "civility." Thanks to the cover these Democrats have lent them, Republicans are already using the "bipartisan" nature of their censure to justify further attempts to make an example out of Al Green for what happens when a Democrat even cosmetically steps out of line. And while these ten Democrats whimper about "civility" other Republicans are pushing to throw Al Green and other Democrats off committees.
It's truly pathetic. This is what you call an opposition?
posted by Method Man at 1:37 PM on March 6 [17 favorites]
By him, of course, I mean Al Green, whom 10 Democrats voted to censure because of "civility." Thanks to the cover these Democrats have lent them, Republicans are already using the "bipartisan" nature of their censure to justify further attempts to make an example out of Al Green for what happens when a Democrat even cosmetically steps out of line. And while these ten Democrats whimper about "civility" other Republicans are pushing to throw Al Green and other Democrats off committees.
It's truly pathetic. This is what you call an opposition?
posted by Method Man at 1:37 PM on March 6 [17 favorites]
The only value the big tent of Dems value is not pro-life, health care or civil rights; it is fundraising. All things are possible if you dream big and send them $3 right away.
posted by zaixfeep at 2:01 PM on March 6 [4 favorites]
posted by zaixfeep at 2:01 PM on March 6 [4 favorites]
This CNN analysis article documents Musk's own words — he considers societal empathy to be an existential threat to human survival. If you wonder how they can be so cruel, wonder no more.
posted by zaixfeep at 2:06 PM on March 6 [5 favorites]
posted by zaixfeep at 2:06 PM on March 6 [5 favorites]
Maybe what we need to do is:
(a) make a giant list of what tactics have been tried and did not work worth a damn/make a dent ("go high")
(b) make a little list of things that seemed to make a dent ("weird")
(c) try to think of literally anything else that hasn't been tried or is still available to try, if anything.
Because the fight has been going on for so many years and we lost so hard and so much, no wonder nobody knows what the hell else to try and do, especially with zero leverage/power of any kind.
posted by jenfullmoon at 2:58 PM on March 6 [2 favorites]
(a) make a giant list of what tactics have been tried and did not work worth a damn/make a dent ("go high")
(b) make a little list of things that seemed to make a dent ("weird")
(c) try to think of literally anything else that hasn't been tried or is still available to try, if anything.
Because the fight has been going on for so many years and we lost so hard and so much, no wonder nobody knows what the hell else to try and do, especially with zero leverage/power of any kind.
posted by jenfullmoon at 2:58 PM on March 6 [2 favorites]
I think some folks are confusing theatre with action. The State of the Union was theatre. It comes and goes, and gets forgotten, especially at 100 minutes long while Trump basks in the adulation of his minions. The executive orders have generated more than 100 cases. Those are serious, and so far Trump has not been winning.
Yesterday the Supreme Court ruled on two of them:
1. Trump wanted to cut, rather than spend, $2 billion that Congress had appropriated on Foreign Aid. The Supreme Court said NO. This will empower lower court judges who want to block Trump's other cuts.
Trump = 0
People = 1
2. Trump wanted to immediately fire the head of a government watchdog agency. The Supreme Court said NO. In this case, the Supremes sent the case back to lower courts.
Trump = 0
People = 1
Thus far, lower court judges appointed by Reagan, Obama and Trump have all ruled against the Trump administration. This follows in the footsteps of legal suits filed against Trump I: Mostly, he didn't win.
For a quick overview of the status of key issues, see the Washington Post's handy color-coded chart. Note, however, that to date only two of Trump's executive orders have been fully upheld:
Yesterday the Supreme Court ruled on two of them:
1. Trump wanted to cut, rather than spend, $2 billion that Congress had appropriated on Foreign Aid. The Supreme Court said NO. This will empower lower court judges who want to block Trump's other cuts.
Trump = 0
People = 1
2. Trump wanted to immediately fire the head of a government watchdog agency. The Supreme Court said NO. In this case, the Supremes sent the case back to lower courts.
Trump = 0
People = 1
Thus far, lower court judges appointed by Reagan, Obama and Trump have all ruled against the Trump administration. This follows in the footsteps of legal suits filed against Trump I: Mostly, he didn't win.
For a quick overview of the status of key issues, see the Washington Post's handy color-coded chart. Note, however, that to date only two of Trump's executive orders have been fully upheld:
- the resignation offer for federal workers, and
- the legality of the U.S. DOGE Service
Jeffries and the rest of House Democratic leadership privately confronted members who disrupted President Trump’s speech to Congress. He had earlier "[implored] colleagues to maintain a “dignified Democratic presence” during the address."
posted by zaixfeep at 7:51 PM on March 6 [6 favorites]
posted by zaixfeep at 7:51 PM on March 6 [6 favorites]
Gormless party
posted by Slackermagee at 4:56 AM on March 7 [1 favorite]
posted by Slackermagee at 4:56 AM on March 7 [1 favorite]
The Democrats truly suck. Is Trump an existential threat or not? Based on their actions at and after the speech, apparently not. Personally I feel he and Vance are traitors to the Constitution and that every member of Congress, the Secret Service, and the military has an affirmative duty to stop him. If not then, well, fuck you for your service.
posted by caviar2d2 at 5:34 PM on March 7 [9 favorites]
posted by caviar2d2 at 5:34 PM on March 7 [9 favorites]
One of my big hobby horses these days is that the world is becoming more ‘oral’ and that Trump has been a successful candidate because he has excellent intuitions about how to communicate in this new world.
I was just talking about this with my husband yesterday... Trump appeals to "oral" voters because he is a poor reader (if he can read at all). It's something he has in common with some of his voting base.
posted by subdee at 12:19 PM on March 8 [6 favorites]
I was just talking about this with my husband yesterday... Trump appeals to "oral" voters because he is a poor reader (if he can read at all). It's something he has in common with some of his voting base.
posted by subdee at 12:19 PM on March 8 [6 favorites]
> How many dems will show up?
> Instead, like they do so often, the Democrats let the moment pass without exploiting it.
AOC has republicans' number!
AOC responds to Trump's Congressional Address
> If that's the case, then why don't Democrats hold town halls in those areas?
Republicans Downplay Medicaid Cuts Amid Town Hall Voter Backlash - "Several Republicans warned about the budget's political risks, including moderate members who have warned against cutting social programs such as Medicaid and food assistance, and far-right lawmakers who complain the resolution wouldn't cut deep enough. Johnson can lose only one or two Republicans, depending on attendance, and still win a vote without Democratic support. To sway the moderates, Johnson and his lieutenants in the House GOP have fashioned a new talking point that insists the budget would not actually cut Medicaid because the word 'Medicaid' isn’t in the resolution. 'It doesn't even mention Medicaid in the bill,' Johnson said. Johnson is relying on a quirk of the budget process to obscure the intent of the budget. It's true the document doesn't mention Medicaid; instead, it directs the House Energy and Commerce Committee to come up with $880 billion worth of cuts over a decade to the programs under its jurisdiction, the largest of which happens to be... Medicaid."
and energy and commerce is AOC's committee :P
posted by kliuless at 3:11 PM on March 8 [15 favorites]
> Instead, like they do so often, the Democrats let the moment pass without exploiting it.
AOC has republicans' number!
AOC responds to Trump's Congressional Address
It's all about Medicaid. It's all about what they're not saying. Don't you find it interesting that Donald Trump, if you listen to that speech, Donald Trump said a lot of things, he said a lot of random things about studies and waste and all this other stuff. He did not talk about Medicaid. Not once. And as a certain right-wing operative likes to say MAGA's on Medicaid. And MAGA Trump is coming for your Medicaid. MAGA Republicans are coming for your Medicaid. And the reason they are rattling off all of these things because -- listen, where there is waste, we should address it, where there is corruption, we should address it, where there's fraud and abuse, we should address it -- but don't you think that if you found a bunch of money in the couch cushions that you would put that to expanding Medicaid, improving schools, fixing our roads, right, but that's not what they're planning on doing.Who benefits from Trump Tax Cuts and Jobs Act extension - "The largest tax cuts would accrue to the highest-income families, the Treasury said. Household in the top 5% — who earn more than $450,000 a year, roughly — are the 'biggest winners,' according to a July 2024 analysis by the Urban-Brookings Tax Policy Center. They'd get over 45% of the benefits of extending the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act, it said. A Penn Wharton Budget Model analysis on the impacts of the broad Republican tax plan had a similar finding. The bottom 80% of income earners would get 29% of the total value of proposed tax cuts in 2026, according to the Wharton analysis, issued Thursday. The top 10% would get 56% of the value, it said."
The reason they're shaking all these couch cushions, and the reason that they are rattling off all these numbers, is because all those numbers they are trying to add up into the one of the most massive tax cuts for billionaires and the 1% probably in modern American history, and do not forget that. Don't forget that.
It's not just about what Trump is saying. It's about the big obvious things that he is ignoring y'all, okay, Medicaid. Don't you find it interesting that he did not mention Medicaid once, once... One of the largest insurers in the United States, that impacts most Americans and, by the way 30% of Medicaid money goes to Medicare recipients, too.
So he's doing that for a reason because he's scared. If he was confident about his attacks on Medicaid he would have said something, wouldn't he? He's confident about his attacks on immigrants. He's confident about his attacks on federal workers. He's confident about all those things. Why won't he own up, and Republicans own up to their attacks on Medicaid.
And if you are a Donald Trump supporter and you believe him when he says we're not going to touch Medicaid, why wouldn't he say that in his speech. I mean it's one of the most vulnerable points that Republicans have right now is this attack on Medicaid. They know it's sinking them. In fact, the NRCC -- this is an organization that's like kind of in charge of electing Republicans across the country -- they came in this week and they told every Republican in the House of Representatives to stop doing Town Halls, to stop doing Town Halls, why? Why? Because they're getting too much heat over Medicaid, and personally, I think they are trying to bully Republicans to get in line, to try to line up to vote to gut Medicaid and so they want to extract Republicans out of their communities, out of their districts, so they don't feel as connected, so they isolate them so they can be more easily manipulated and bullied into cutting Medicaid, and if Donald Trump were so proud about it, he would own it, and if it wasn't true this is a massive political vulnerability, he could have ended tonight a lot of the speculation and a lot of the vulnerability that Republicans were experiencing right now. If he went up on that podium and said we're not going to touch Medicaid. But he didn't say that did he. He didn't say that mark my words they're coming after it.
And all of that rattling off on Social Security and trying to frame Social Security as largely wasteful, this idea that there's like checks going out, tons of Social Security checks going out to dead people.
No, no, no. Social security monitors who passes away and processes who passes away, that doesn't mean they're cutting a check to people who pass away. They are setting all of this up. They are trying to trick you. They're trying to trick your your grandparents. They're trying to trick young people into thinking that it's all wasteful so that they can get away with cutting it to pieces. It's the same thing with Medicaid.
Mike Johnson is going on television talking about how people who are on Medicaid are just all able-bodied 29-year-old young men who are playing video games. Medicaid, let me tell you all Republicans have attacked Medicaid so often for decades that any little sliver of fat that you can possibly gut from it has largely all been trimmed away.
This is not the first time that Republicans have gone up, and frankly anybody has gone up, to talk about efficiency and so understand: I'm talking directly to Republicans right now because I know some of y'all love to be on my feeds, so welcome and I'm happy, that you're here. To all the Republicans who are on Medicare, who are on Medicaid, who maybe you're on children's health insurance and, by the way, a lot of states name these insurance programs different things -- like New York has a different children's health insurance program and so on and so forth -- so if you have like a little state healthcare program, it's probably public funded or it might have some sort of public connection to it, and I want you to ask your representative if they're going to touch any Medicaid dollars, at all, and if they try to tell you, "oh yeah, there's a ton of waste," ask them, how much? How much waste? Like ask for the receipt. Ask for the receipt. If they want to say there's waste, ask for the receipt.
Because what they are trying to cut from Medicaid, I'm going to tell you, is somewhere to the tune of 880 billion dollars from Medicaid. Okay, $880 billion, and I sit on the committee that Medicaid goes through -- aaaand the math ain't mathin'. Even when you talk to Republicans, their wildest dream fantasy of the amount of so-called waste that they have identified, if you believe absolutely everything, which like they include long-term care as waste, like they include actual certain kinds of Health Care as wasteful, in their wildest fantasies their number is still $50 billion.
So where where's the other $830 billion coming from. It's coming from Grandma. It's coming from your prescriptions. It's coming from your care. It's coming from your your insulin. It's coming from your kids copay.
They. Are. Setting. Up. To. Rob. You. To rob you. And that is the moral of the story of this state of the union tonight. He was yammering, and he was blabbering, and he was reading off listicles like this was the longest BuzzFeed right-wing compilation of all time. It was boring. It was, yes, it was unsettling, very dangerous in terms of how he is tearing apart US alliances, tearing tearing apart our allies, attacking our allies. It's not to undermine the seriousness of what he is doing, but it is to really communicate that he was trying to dance around their number one priority, which is to rob and gut Medicaid, Medicare and all of our public systems, Social Security, etc., in order to pay for tax cuts for billionaires. Billionaires.
And let me tell you something. As far as taxes go. He only actually talked about about, what was it, no tax on tips, no tax on Social Security benefits and no tax on overtime. I can talk about those specific things, but let me tell you something, those tax cuts are a little, little, little tiny line in terms of the entire tax bill. It is like 90%, well maybe not 90%, but it is overwhelmingly tax cuts for billionaires, corporations. It's the writeoffs on the yachts. It's the write offs on the private jets. It's the rich getting richer. This bill is the rich getting richer and then they put as little lipstick on a pig, these little crumbs of no tax on tips, no tax on Social Security benefits and no tax on overtime.
> If that's the case, then why don't Democrats hold town halls in those areas?
Republicans Downplay Medicaid Cuts Amid Town Hall Voter Backlash - "Several Republicans warned about the budget's political risks, including moderate members who have warned against cutting social programs such as Medicaid and food assistance, and far-right lawmakers who complain the resolution wouldn't cut deep enough. Johnson can lose only one or two Republicans, depending on attendance, and still win a vote without Democratic support. To sway the moderates, Johnson and his lieutenants in the House GOP have fashioned a new talking point that insists the budget would not actually cut Medicaid because the word 'Medicaid' isn’t in the resolution. 'It doesn't even mention Medicaid in the bill,' Johnson said. Johnson is relying on a quirk of the budget process to obscure the intent of the budget. It's true the document doesn't mention Medicaid; instead, it directs the House Energy and Commerce Committee to come up with $880 billion worth of cuts over a decade to the programs under its jurisdiction, the largest of which happens to be... Medicaid."
and energy and commerce is AOC's committee :P
posted by kliuless at 3:11 PM on March 8 [15 favorites]
is there any word on what flew out of the president's face during the speech.
posted by clavdivs at 4:04 PM on March 8 [2 favorites]
posted by clavdivs at 4:04 PM on March 8 [2 favorites]
"The only thing we have to fear is fear itself", Melania Trump
posted by Omon Ra at 4:43 PM on March 8 [2 favorites]
posted by Omon Ra at 4:43 PM on March 8 [2 favorites]
Chuck Todd on CNN said that Jeffries/Schumer are "‘Paralyzed’ By Fear of Leftist ‘Tea Party’ Revolt" (or an 'Herbal Tea Party' as I call it ☺)
Oddly enough in this case I agree with Chuck, they should be afraid.
posted by zaixfeep at 5:31 PM on March 8 [7 favorites]
Oddly enough in this case I agree with Chuck, they should be afraid.
posted by zaixfeep at 5:31 PM on March 8 [7 favorites]
is there any word on what flew out of the president's face during the speech.
As one would expect from any wide-mouthed open Pandora's Box in human form — Hope.
posted by zaixfeep at 5:36 PM on March 8 [1 favorite]
As one would expect from any wide-mouthed open Pandora's Box in human form — Hope.
posted by zaixfeep at 5:36 PM on March 8 [1 favorite]
From the Chuck Todd link:
"So I think that’s why Jeffries and Schumer come across as paralyzed because they’re trying to placate a coalition party that doesn’t know which direction to go to."
If it isn't obvious to any elected Democrat that the direction to go is opposing lawlessness and Fascism, then that elected Democrat needs to be primaried right out.
JFC people, this isn't rocket surgery! You OPPOSE FASCISM. It's really that simple.
posted by sotonohito at 8:52 AM on March 9 [12 favorites]
"So I think that’s why Jeffries and Schumer come across as paralyzed because they’re trying to placate a coalition party that doesn’t know which direction to go to."
If it isn't obvious to any elected Democrat that the direction to go is opposing lawlessness and Fascism, then that elected Democrat needs to be primaried right out.
JFC people, this isn't rocket surgery! You OPPOSE FASCISM. It's really that simple.
posted by sotonohito at 8:52 AM on March 9 [12 favorites]
At this point the Dem establishment should be worried about being primaried by a revolt of Maddow Show viewers, let alone 'leftists.'
posted by snuffleupagus at 10:01 AM on March 9 [5 favorites]
posted by snuffleupagus at 10:01 AM on March 9 [5 favorites]
I'm posting this because if a slogan deep in there: power to the millions, not the millionaires, but the video gives a good alternative perspective to the sate fo russia.
posted by mumimor at 9:56 AM on March 10
posted by mumimor at 9:56 AM on March 10
Well ICE, seemingly at the behest of the president, has arrested a pro-Palestine protestor at Columbia and sent him somewhere (no one really knows) while his wife is 8 months pregnant. Trump has promised more arrests to come. Columbia University has not issued a statement.
posted by MisantropicPainforest at 11:47 AM on March 10 [5 favorites]
posted by MisantropicPainforest at 11:47 AM on March 10 [5 favorites]
You have him, then the German tattoo artist in detention at the California/Mexico border, then you have the visiting British cartoonist also in detention at Washington/Canada border.
America is not a safe place for foreign travellers right now.
posted by Kitteh at 11:53 AM on March 10 [4 favorites]
America is not a safe place for foreign travellers right now.
posted by Kitteh at 11:53 AM on March 10 [4 favorites]
ICE, seemingly at the behest of the president, has arrested a pro-Palestine protestor at Columbia
A permanent US resident whose speech is protected by the First Amendment, since some people seem to be confused about his status. Not quite the same thing as detaining someone at a border.
posted by Pseudonymous Cognomen at 8:09 PM on March 10 [7 favorites]
A permanent US resident whose speech is protected by the First Amendment, since some people seem to be confused about his status. Not quite the same thing as detaining someone at a border.
posted by Pseudonymous Cognomen at 8:09 PM on March 10 [7 favorites]
The habeas petition in the Khalil case is moving forward, and one should be filed in the Croft case as well.
Judge blocks removal of Palestinian activist who was detained at Columbia University
The courts haven't been perfect, but they are pushing back despite their imbalance.
posted by snuffleupagus at 8:46 PM on March 10 [4 favorites]
Judge blocks removal of Palestinian activist who was detained at Columbia University
The courts haven't been perfect, but they are pushing back despite their imbalance.
posted by snuffleupagus at 8:46 PM on March 10 [4 favorites]
CIVICUS has added the United States of America (USA) to its Watchlist of countries with faltering civic freedoms, along with the DRC, Italy, Serbia & Pakistan.
Due to the Trump administration’s assault on democratic norms and global cooperation, CIVICUS has added the United States of America (USA) to its Watchlist of countries with faltering civic freedoms.posted by rubatan at 5:37 AM on March 11 [5 favorites]
A spate of arbitrary executive orders has resulted in mass firings of federal government employees coupled with the takeover of key positions in the administration including the Justice Department and the Federal Bureau of Investigation by Trump loyalists. They are likely to severely impact constitutional freedoms of peaceful assembly, expression, and association.
“This is an unparalleled attack on the rule of law in the United States, not seen since the days of McCarthyism in the twentieth century. Restrictive executive orders, unjustifiable institutional cutbacks, and intimidation tactics through threatening pronouncements by senior officials in the administration are creating an atmosphere to chill democratic dissent, a cherished American ideal.
“The Trump administration seems hellbent on dismantling the system of checks and balances which are the pillars of a democratic society,” said Mandeep Tiwana, Interim Co-Secretary General of CIVICUS.
United States, once a global champion of democracy and human rights, joins the first 2025 watchlist along with Democratic Republic of Congo, Italy, Pakistan, and Serbia. The arbitrary US pullbacks from aid and multilateral cooperation, including the World Health Organisation and the UN Human Rights Council, will likely impact civic freedoms and reverse hard-won human rights gains around the world.
House minority leader Hakeem Jeffries throws Khalil under the bus, saying he created a hostile academic environment for Jewish students.
Primary him.
posted by MisantropicPainforest at 9:40 AM on March 11 [6 favorites]
Primary him.
posted by MisantropicPainforest at 9:40 AM on March 11 [6 favorites]
Hakeem Jeffries throws Khalil under the bus
Of course he fucking did, so will Schumer, Democratic leadership are useless, their support of genocide committed by Netanyahu's murderous fascist regime really should've made it clear that they're not going to fight back too hard against fascism.
posted by Pseudonymous Cognomen at 10:08 AM on March 11 [4 favorites]
Of course he fucking did, so will Schumer, Democratic leadership are useless, their support of genocide committed by Netanyahu's murderous fascist regime really should've made it clear that they're not going to fight back too hard against fascism.
posted by Pseudonymous Cognomen at 10:08 AM on March 11 [4 favorites]
"Absent evidence of a crime, such as providing material support for a terrorist organization, the actions undertaken by the Trump administration are wildly inconsistent with the United States Constitution." --Jeffries
Leaving out the second half of his statement is essentially lying.
posted by Press Butt.on to Check at 10:14 AM on March 11 [3 favorites]
Leaving out the second half of his statement is essentially lying.
posted by Press Butt.on to Check at 10:14 AM on March 11 [3 favorites]
Wow thats some seriously strong language. #RESIST.
WHY THE FUCK IS THE HOUSE MINORITY LEADER SAYING THE WORDS 'TERORRIST ORGANIZATION' IN THE SAME BREATH AS DEFENDING A PROTESTOR WHO HAPPENS TO BE MUSLIM.
Are they this fucking dense?
posted by MisantropicPainforest at 10:18 AM on March 11 [5 favorites]
WHY THE FUCK IS THE HOUSE MINORITY LEADER SAYING THE WORDS 'TERORRIST ORGANIZATION' IN THE SAME BREATH AS DEFENDING A PROTESTOR WHO HAPPENS TO BE MUSLIM.
Are they this fucking dense?
posted by MisantropicPainforest at 10:18 AM on March 11 [5 favorites]
I feel like there should be a post about Mohammed Khalil, Jessica Brosche (the German tourist detained by ICE), and R.E. Burke (the British cartoonist detained by ICE). This is something I think US MeFites are better poised to do.
posted by Kitteh at 10:24 AM on March 11 [7 favorites]
posted by Kitteh at 10:24 AM on March 11 [7 favorites]
Are they this fucking dense?
The idea is that there's no indication of any legitimately chargeable crime to arrest and detain him for. He wasn't arrested after an investigation found material connections to any actual terrorist groups, etc. The framing is coming from the administration:
posted by snuffleupagus at 10:49 AM on March 11 [4 favorites]
The idea is that there's no indication of any legitimately chargeable crime to arrest and detain him for. He wasn't arrested after an investigation found material connections to any actual terrorist groups, etc. The framing is coming from the administration:
President Donald Trump claimed Khalil was a "Radical Foreign Pro-Hamas Student" and said this is the "first arrest of many to come" in a post on his Truth Social platform on Monday.It should have followed as an explanation of why it's plainly unconstitutional, rather than leading as a qualification.
"We will find, apprehend, and deport these terrorist sympathizers from our country -- never to return again," he added.
posted by snuffleupagus at 10:49 AM on March 11 [4 favorites]
This is "He was no angel" shit. Come the fuck on. That he eventually gets around to calling this illegal doesn't make up for it.
Christ they hate those protestors so much for being better humans. Wild.
posted by Slackermagee at 1:42 PM on March 11 [6 favorites]
Christ they hate those protestors so much for being better humans. Wild.
posted by Slackermagee at 1:42 PM on March 11 [6 favorites]
Jeffries is already on record being in full-throated support of restricting the First Amendment when it applies to criticism of Israel (see the anti-BDS legislation he introduced), and so is Schumer. Not sure why anyone honestly expects any robust action from these assholes when they've already demonstrated a willingness to gut the First Amendment on behalf of Israel and Khalil's arrest and deportation is just more of the same.
posted by Pseudonymous Cognomen at 2:30 PM on March 11 [2 favorites]
posted by Pseudonymous Cognomen at 2:30 PM on March 11 [2 favorites]
It's not more of the same, it's a serious escalation.
posted by snuffleupagus at 3:03 PM on March 11 [1 favorite]
posted by snuffleupagus at 3:03 PM on March 11 [1 favorite]
We're well through the looking glass: Ann Coulter is on Khalil's side on this.
If John Bolton thinks you are too violent/trigger-happy, if Lachlan Murdoch/WSJ thinks your fiscal policy is absurd for business, and Ann Coulter thinks you're too deportation-obsessed, I dunno — maybe it's time to reconsider being the leading arsehole of Western civilization?
posted by zaixfeep at 11:32 PM on March 11 [2 favorites]
If John Bolton thinks you are too violent/trigger-happy, if Lachlan Murdoch/WSJ thinks your fiscal policy is absurd for business, and Ann Coulter thinks you're too deportation-obsessed, I dunno — maybe it's time to reconsider being the leading arsehole of Western civilization?
posted by zaixfeep at 11:32 PM on March 11 [2 favorites]
Ya think?
posted by y2karl at 3:23 AM on March 12 [1 favorite]
posted by y2karl at 3:23 AM on March 12 [1 favorite]
I don’t know what hope there is if both the highest ranking dems AND people who comprise the liberals of metafilter (ie, people who know better) are repeating “even If this guy was a terrorist, he should be given due process” when the reality is he’s a grad student protesting a genocide at great personal risk, which is a wholly noble endeavor. He’s a hero and anyone who utters his name and the word ‘terrorist’ in the same sentence is a fool or a bigot, or both.
If we can’t muster a full throated, without qualifications, defense of a leader of a nonviolent protest against genocide, what happens when they unlawfully arrest and detain an asshole?
posted by MisantropicPainforest at 7:37 AM on March 12 [8 favorites]
If we can’t muster a full throated, without qualifications, defense of a leader of a nonviolent protest against genocide, what happens when they unlawfully arrest and detain an asshole?
posted by MisantropicPainforest at 7:37 AM on March 12 [8 favorites]
I don’t know what hope there is when people keep blaming Dems for things the GOP is doing.
posted by Press Butt.on to Check at 7:41 AM on March 12 [1 favorite]
posted by Press Butt.on to Check at 7:41 AM on March 12 [1 favorite]
Who is doing that? Who is blaming dems for Khalil arrest? Everyone here is pretty clearly upset that the Dems are repeating some of Trumps bullshit framing and offering a weak defense.
posted by MisantropicPainforest at 7:49 AM on March 12 [2 favorites]
posted by MisantropicPainforest at 7:49 AM on March 12 [2 favorites]
Only Dems have been mentioned by anybody. There is literally no indication in this thread who actually arrested Khalil, only (bad faith) reactions to Dem statements.
Also, if we're playing the "who is doing that" game, which mefite said “even If this guy was a terrorist, he should be given due process”? No one.
posted by Press Butt.on to Check at 7:53 AM on March 12
Also, if we're playing the "who is doing that" game, which mefite said “even If this guy was a terrorist, he should be given due process”? No one.
posted by Press Butt.on to Check at 7:53 AM on March 12
Please read the thread, you’ll learn something! (Like who arrested Khalil)
posted by MisantropicPainforest at 8:07 AM on March 12 [3 favorites]
posted by MisantropicPainforest at 8:07 AM on March 12 [3 favorites]
an asshole
It's not supposed to matter. And it's not the Dems who are hanging the 'terrorism' framing on it. They do need to refute it, not just ignore it, sorry.
posted by snuffleupagus at 9:43 AM on March 12
It's not supposed to matter. And it's not the Dems who are hanging the 'terrorism' framing on it. They do need to refute it, not just ignore it, sorry.
posted by snuffleupagus at 9:43 AM on March 12
Then why isn’t Jeffries calling for his release instead of saying it’s “inconsistent with the constitution”. That’s the best defense we get?
posted by MisantropicPainforest at 11:07 AM on March 12 [4 favorites]
posted by MisantropicPainforest at 11:07 AM on March 12 [4 favorites]
Jeffries' approach to everything sucks, imo.
posted by snuffleupagus at 11:18 AM on March 12 [1 favorite]
posted by snuffleupagus at 11:18 AM on March 12 [1 favorite]
I am always insufficiently cynical. I think I have the armor of contempt up and nothing the Democrats do can hurt me because I expect nothing from them, and they keep proving I'm wrong by finding new lows to plumb.
Just as we ask "what would a Russian agent do that Trump has not done" so too we must begin to ask ourselves "what woudl a Republican agent do that the Democratic leadership has not done".
posted by sotonohito at 3:14 PM on March 12 [5 favorites]
Just as we ask "what would a Russian agent do that Trump has not done" so too we must begin to ask ourselves "what woudl a Republican agent do that the Democratic leadership has not done".
posted by sotonohito at 3:14 PM on March 12 [5 favorites]
Re-posting this from 2021 to refresh the collective memory here: Profiles of the Political Tribes of the USA.
Progressive Activists: 8% of Americans
Traditional Liberals: 11% of Americans
Passive Liberals: 15% of Americans
Politically Disengaged: 26% of Americans
Moderates: 15% of Americans
Traditional Conservatives: 19% of Americans
Devoted Conservatives: 6% of Americans
One would think that advocating for the most clearly and obviously virtuous and humane policies would be at least a bit more popular.
posted by zaixfeep at 5:48 PM on March 12
Progressive Activists: 8% of Americans
Traditional Liberals: 11% of Americans
Passive Liberals: 15% of Americans
Politically Disengaged: 26% of Americans
Moderates: 15% of Americans
Traditional Conservatives: 19% of Americans
Devoted Conservatives: 6% of Americans
One would think that advocating for the most clearly and obviously virtuous and humane policies would be at least a bit more popular.
posted by zaixfeep at 5:48 PM on March 12
The Attack on Mahmoud Khalil Is Straight Out of the “War on Terror” Playbook (TruthOut)
When Barack Obama became president in 2008, he notably declined to walk back Bush-era surveillance powers or prosecute those involved in torturing detainees at Guantánamo, claiming he wanted to “look forward, not backward.” Biden’s administration further entrenched and expanded the federal government’s power to conduct electronic surveillance.posted by adrienneleigh at 10:12 PM on March 12 [7 favorites]
Trump’s attempt to deport Khalil draws from and builds upon this legacy. This is the norm of presidential power in 2025 — drastic government overreach, mass warrantless surveillance, the weaponization of terrorism accusations to suppress First Amendment activity. With a fascist in office, attacks on civil liberties will be escalated, and Muslim and Arab communities will bear the brunt of the administration’s repression.
Meanwhile, utterly useless "minority leader" Schumer has completely rolled over and will vote for the noxious continuing resolution, which "also includes a provision that effectively neuters lawmakers’ powers to force a vote on whether to terminate a president’s ability to impose tariffs". This is not leadership, this is spinelessness.
posted by Pseudonymous Cognomen at 4:36 PM on March 13 [6 favorites]
posted by Pseudonymous Cognomen at 4:36 PM on March 13 [6 favorites]
but remember, if you don't vote for the inadequate protection against leopards party, you are responsible for all the faces being eaten - don't throw away your vote on third parties - make sure your vote goes to congress, where it can sit around on its ass and do nothing
posted by pyramid termite at 6:58 PM on March 13 [5 favorites]
posted by pyramid termite at 6:58 PM on March 13 [5 favorites]
Adam Serwer:
American politics makes a lot more sense when you realize that the GOP is afraid of pissing off the GOP base, and the Dems are afraid of pissing off the GOP base, but neither party is afraid of pissing off the Dem base.posted by non canadian guy at 3:33 PM on March 14 [4 favorites]
That's because the Dems have been complicit in breaking the unions; and/or have failed to serve their members well enough to keep them from turning to the GOP for false promises of protection for their industry over their own rights.
posted by snuffleupagus at 4:00 PM on March 14 [1 favorite]
posted by snuffleupagus at 4:00 PM on March 14 [1 favorite]
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posted by Reasonably Everything Happens at 5:23 PM on March 4 [16 favorites]