Meet our new Prime Minister designate, Mark Carney
March 9, 2025 4:14 PM Subscribe
Mark Carney wins race to replace Trudeau. “We didn’t ask for this fight,” Carney said, referencing Trump’s threats to annex Canada. “But Canadians are always ready when someone else drops the gloves.”
“So Americans should make no mistake. In trade, as in hockey, Canada will win.”
Carney is expected to officially call a federal election within weeks.
Carney is expected to officially call a federal election within weeks.
Am I thrilled he's going to cut the carbon tax? No, but then I understand we are in survival mode. The only bright side of that is PP was going to use that cudgel in his campaign. Can't use it if it's gone, Milhouse Without the Glasses.
posted by Kitteh at 4:17 PM on March 9 [6 favorites]
posted by Kitteh at 4:17 PM on March 9 [6 favorites]
I had forgotten how charismatic a speaker Chrétien was. Even at 91 and stumbling some words, he kinda stole the show.
posted by Clever User Name at 4:19 PM on March 9 [10 favorites]
posted by Clever User Name at 4:19 PM on March 9 [10 favorites]
Am I thrilled he's going to cut the carbon tax? No, but then I understand we are in survival mode.
Once it is gone, it's pretty clear that it will never come back. I could understand a carbon tax holiday that lasts as long as tariffs are in place, but just getting rid of it entirely (except for on large businesses, apparently) is awfully depressing. An all carrot and no stick incentives approach is clearly not going to get us where we need to be in terms of emissions reductions.
And I'm not so sure that it's a big win to implement the opposition's preferred policies for them.
posted by ssg at 4:27 PM on March 9 [17 favorites]
Once it is gone, it's pretty clear that it will never come back. I could understand a carbon tax holiday that lasts as long as tariffs are in place, but just getting rid of it entirely (except for on large businesses, apparently) is awfully depressing. An all carrot and no stick incentives approach is clearly not going to get us where we need to be in terms of emissions reductions.
And I'm not so sure that it's a big win to implement the opposition's preferred policies for them.
posted by ssg at 4:27 PM on March 9 [17 favorites]
Last June a friend and I had a picnic lunch in High Park during which he said to me, "Pierre Poilievre will win the next election with a majority, and he'll be in office a long time."
I said, grimly, "You may be right, but I hope that you're not."
If the election had been the following week, he would have been right, but at that point, we were nearly a year and a half away from the next federal election, and a year is an eternity in politics -- it can contain multitudes. I didn't see how Trudeau could turn things around, but I hoped that somehow he would, or that something would happen to prevent PP from taking office. Nine months later, things have happened. We're not out of the woods yet, but I think there's grounds for hope that Carney can pull this off and that Poilievre will subsequently be ousted as CPC leader, thereby becoming nothing more than a particularly irritating footnote in Canadian history.
posted by orange swan at 4:32 PM on March 9 [14 favorites]
I said, grimly, "You may be right, but I hope that you're not."
If the election had been the following week, he would have been right, but at that point, we were nearly a year and a half away from the next federal election, and a year is an eternity in politics -- it can contain multitudes. I didn't see how Trudeau could turn things around, but I hoped that somehow he would, or that something would happen to prevent PP from taking office. Nine months later, things have happened. We're not out of the woods yet, but I think there's grounds for hope that Carney can pull this off and that Poilievre will subsequently be ousted as CPC leader, thereby becoming nothing more than a particularly irritating footnote in Canadian history.
posted by orange swan at 4:32 PM on March 9 [14 favorites]
I could understand a carbon tax holiday that lasts as long as tariffs are in place, but just getting rid of it entirely (except for on large businesses, apparently) is awfully depressing.
I hope someone in his cabinet suggests that because I would prefer that as well.
I am also less confident of a PP win than I was even a few months ago. During this whole crisis, PP has shown himself to be not very up to speed? Like, he waits too long to see which way to jump and when he does jump, the goalposts have moved again. He presents as very ineffective and loosey-goosey on the tariffs and the response. I can't speak for the hardcore PCs ride or dies, but I suspect Canadians might keep the Liberals simply because they were the party in charge to respond to a hostile US government and it's better the devil you know, than the one you don't.
posted by Kitteh at 4:40 PM on March 9 [7 favorites]
I hope someone in his cabinet suggests that because I would prefer that as well.
I am also less confident of a PP win than I was even a few months ago. During this whole crisis, PP has shown himself to be not very up to speed? Like, he waits too long to see which way to jump and when he does jump, the goalposts have moved again. He presents as very ineffective and loosey-goosey on the tariffs and the response. I can't speak for the hardcore PCs ride or dies, but I suspect Canadians might keep the Liberals simply because they were the party in charge to respond to a hostile US government and it's better the devil you know, than the one you don't.
posted by Kitteh at 4:40 PM on March 9 [7 favorites]
One of the CBC commentators said the carbon tax woukd just be rebranded. And not that he said he would remove it from "families, small- and medium-sized businesses." Suggesting however they're defining large businesses, they will still pay.
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 4:51 PM on March 9 [1 favorite]
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 4:51 PM on March 9 [1 favorite]
PP has been campaigning about getting rid of the carbon tax and people across the political spectrum have been receptive. Getting rid of the carbon tax is a political necessity if the Liberals are to stay in power and frankly, it’s a win-win; Carney separates himself from Trudeau, PP can’t criticize the decision and people who usually vote Liberal/NDP but have been considering voting differently are coming back. Further, Trudeau is looking great right now due to his words and actions regarding tariffs and this could be a really big wave that Carney and the Libs can ride. If the objective is to not have that turd PP elected then we’re going in the right direction. I think that the next few weeks will present with a number of opportunities for Carney to shine and I hope that he grabs those opportunities and runs with them.
posted by ashbury at 5:19 PM on March 9 [13 favorites]
posted by ashbury at 5:19 PM on March 9 [13 favorites]
The morning after the US Election, I joked to my wife, "I'm not sure what's gonna happen,but somehow it's going wind up with Prime Minister Doug Ford."
It's suddenly possible that PP fails and gets turfed, and Doug quits as Ontario Premier to run for the federal Conservatives.
As much as I loathe that idea, it's still better than Poilievre.
posted by the one second advantage at 5:28 PM on March 9 [3 favorites]
It's suddenly possible that PP fails and gets turfed, and Doug quits as Ontario Premier to run for the federal Conservatives.
As much as I loathe that idea, it's still better than Poilievre.
posted by the one second advantage at 5:28 PM on March 9 [3 favorites]
"I'm not sure what's gonna happen,but somehow it's going wind up with Prime Minister Doug Ford."
But Ford will have so much trouble giving up what he truly loves, messing with Toronto...
posted by clawsoon at 5:35 PM on March 9 [18 favorites]
But Ford will have so much trouble giving up what he truly loves, messing with Toronto...
posted by clawsoon at 5:35 PM on March 9 [18 favorites]
The hockey game last night was littered with Liberal ads doing mashups of all the nice things Trump has been saying about PP (until recently when someone told him that was not helping) and Conservative ads attacking Melanie Joly and Chrystia Freeland. Which is odd until you realize what they have in common.
I have to grit my teeth to support a central banker but it may have come to that. I think this will be one of those elections when the NDP get knocked back quite a bit, probably to 10 seats or something.
posted by Rumple at 5:35 PM on March 9 [5 favorites]
I have to grit my teeth to support a central banker but it may have come to that. I think this will be one of those elections when the NDP get knocked back quite a bit, probably to 10 seats or something.
posted by Rumple at 5:35 PM on March 9 [5 favorites]
I’m not anywhere near chicken-counting, but a PP win looked all but inevitable only a few months ago. I was convinced JT would cling to power, and get steamrollered in one of the recent Anyone But The Last Lot anti-incumbent waves. Not my ideal, but I’ll happily take a competent neoliberal over the frothing-at-the-mouth loons that have been presented as alternatives of late
posted by Jon Mitchell at 5:43 PM on March 9 [8 favorites]
posted by Jon Mitchell at 5:43 PM on March 9 [8 favorites]
I have to grit my teeth to support a central banker
The technocrats got us into this economic mess; let's hope they can get us out of it before reactionary populism eats the world.
posted by clawsoon at 5:43 PM on March 9 [6 favorites]
The technocrats got us into this economic mess; let's hope they can get us out of it before reactionary populism eats the world.
posted by clawsoon at 5:43 PM on March 9 [6 favorites]
Well, Carney isn’t likely to ever be my guy, but he’s got the resume, he’s got the Rolodex, and he’s likely the best choice to take on PP and Trump. Now all he has to do is be different enough for those who want change and the same enough for those who don’t. Can a back room guy handle a nasty public? I guess we’ll see.
He’s got his work cut out for him, and I don’t envy him one bit. And I’m keeping an open mind. Good luck, Carney.
posted by Capt. Renault at 5:48 PM on March 9 [8 favorites]
He’s got his work cut out for him, and I don’t envy him one bit. And I’m keeping an open mind. Good luck, Carney.
posted by Capt. Renault at 5:48 PM on March 9 [8 favorites]
I'm kind of sad that it was a landslide for Carney, though I respect him. Freeland has been great, I believe, and has been up against Trump before. She had the stones to trigger JT's exit, which was overdue, though we're all glad that JT was still here to stand up and take a few swipes at TFG.
I'm a tad concerned that Carney, though spectacular at finance and economics, might not be the galvanizing leader we need now. But he's still waaay better than PP.
I wish there was less resistance here to capable female politicians; Freeland and Joly are both rockstars, in my book.
posted by Artful Codger at 6:18 PM on March 9 [14 favorites]
I'm a tad concerned that Carney, though spectacular at finance and economics, might not be the galvanizing leader we need now. But he's still waaay better than PP.
I wish there was less resistance here to capable female politicians; Freeland and Joly are both rockstars, in my book.
posted by Artful Codger at 6:18 PM on March 9 [14 favorites]
Freeland deserved much better than this result, surely. She did the work more than anyone.
posted by Capt. Renault at 6:25 PM on March 9 [9 favorites]
posted by Capt. Renault at 6:25 PM on March 9 [9 favorites]
Freeland deserved much better than this result, surely. She did the work more than anyone.
Freeland made this whole shift possible with her abrupt resignation starting the LPC leadership crisis. So you got to hand it to her for that at least. If she hadn't, Trudeau would likely have tried to run again and lost to PP.
posted by Clever User Name at 6:33 PM on March 9 [13 favorites]
Freeland made this whole shift possible with her abrupt resignation starting the LPC leadership crisis. So you got to hand it to her for that at least. If she hadn't, Trudeau would likely have tried to run again and lost to PP.
posted by Clever User Name at 6:33 PM on March 9 [13 favorites]
So, both Canada and the US have carneys in charge...
posted by Calvin and the Duplicators at 6:35 PM on March 9 [16 favorites]
posted by Calvin and the Duplicators at 6:35 PM on March 9 [16 favorites]
Freeland deserved better, but she would have inherited a worse situation because she wouldn't have been able to distance herself from Trudeau, even with the resignation. It would have been like Kim Campbell I think. I hope she comes back - I don't think Carney will be in it for the really long haul.
posted by warriorqueen at 6:38 PM on March 9 [8 favorites]
posted by warriorqueen at 6:38 PM on March 9 [8 favorites]
Is "Sneaky Mark Carney" PP's new thing? Because that style of politics sounds very familiar
Of the possible terrible outcomes for Canada, a consevative majority under that dingdong is the very worst
posted by ginger.beef at 6:41 PM on March 9 [3 favorites]
Of the possible terrible outcomes for Canada, a consevative majority under that dingdong is the very worst
posted by ginger.beef at 6:41 PM on March 9 [3 favorites]
Freeland deserved much better than this result, surely. She did the work more than anyone.
Becoming PM isn't really effort based. Shouldn't we care more about what someone stands for than whether they "did the work"? No one "deserves" to be PM. I find this concept very strange.
posted by ssg at 6:42 PM on March 9 [7 favorites]
Becoming PM isn't really effort based. Shouldn't we care more about what someone stands for than whether they "did the work"? No one "deserves" to be PM. I find this concept very strange.
posted by ssg at 6:42 PM on March 9 [7 favorites]
Freeland did not and doesn't deserve to be PM. You're right, no-one deserves the office. She deserved better than under 10% in the leadership vote, though. Canadians keep a short leash on strong, capable women in politics. We have been predictable on that score.
posted by ginger.beef at 6:49 PM on March 9 [10 favorites]
posted by ginger.beef at 6:49 PM on March 9 [10 favorites]
Side note, how cute was Trudeau’s daughter and her speech. Totally a natural, confident, not at all put on. We shall watch her career with great interest.
posted by St. Peepsburg at 6:55 PM on March 9
posted by St. Peepsburg at 6:55 PM on March 9
She deserved way better than eight percent is what I meant but expressed poorly.
posted by Capt. Renault at 6:55 PM on March 9 [4 favorites]
posted by Capt. Renault at 6:55 PM on March 9 [4 favorites]
Be prepared for a landslide of anti-Carney "WEF capitalist elitist!" content appearing in progressive forums everywhere. No one should need more than one guess as to where it's coming from.
An all carrot and no stick incentives approach is clearly not going to get us where we need to be
My hope is that the stick will re-appear, but rapping the knuckles of any oil company that sells to the US.
posted by CynicalKnight at 6:59 PM on March 9
An all carrot and no stick incentives approach is clearly not going to get us where we need to be
My hope is that the stick will re-appear, but rapping the knuckles of any oil company that sells to the US.
posted by CynicalKnight at 6:59 PM on March 9
Surely Freeland will be back as Finance Minister, no?
posted by saturday_morning at 7:00 PM on March 9 [1 favorite]
posted by saturday_morning at 7:00 PM on March 9 [1 favorite]
Good Time article summarizing the situation.
posted by St. Peepsburg at 7:04 PM on March 9 [1 favorite]
posted by St. Peepsburg at 7:04 PM on March 9 [1 favorite]
"Conservative Leader Pierre Poilievre, whose populist bombast is unusually intense for Canadian politics."
Give me boring politics every day all day
If you like exciting politics, have a fucking coup or civil war. Good times.
posted by ginger.beef at 7:12 PM on March 9 [12 favorites]
Give me boring politics every day all day
If you like exciting politics, have a fucking coup or civil war. Good times.
posted by ginger.beef at 7:12 PM on March 9 [12 favorites]
That's the thing, Carney is boring, I really like that in a person right now
posted by saturday_morning at 7:13 PM on March 9 [17 favorites]
posted by saturday_morning at 7:13 PM on March 9 [17 favorites]
So I wonder what super-safe riding he'll stand in?
posted by scruss at 7:14 PM on March 9 [1 favorite]
posted by scruss at 7:14 PM on March 9 [1 favorite]
So I wonder what super-safe riding he'll stand in?
Papineau? Justin's not going back to being a regular MP.
posted by ThatCanadianGirl at 7:18 PM on March 9 [3 favorites]
Papineau? Justin's not going back to being a regular MP.
posted by ThatCanadianGirl at 7:18 PM on March 9 [3 favorites]
Surely Freeland will be back as Finance Minister, no?
I’d say no chance, but I’m not Carney so we’ll have to wait and see. She did blew up JT spectacularly, and that doesn’t sit well with other members of the caucus. And they’ll want some distance from the previous caucus on key positions.
Not a Liberal voter, but like everybody here I’ll take Carney any day before PP. He might be a banker/economist but we could do worse if we’ll get in a trade war, I just hope he has some part brawler in him. I did like that line about markets having no values and that’s why you have government, but that’s just talk until backed with actions.
I fear he’ll crash and burn in the election, especially with that brand of conservatism running against him but that can also backfire since PP hasn’t really cultivated a team around him that can go in media and he’s very off putting to many.
Carney should replace Mary Simon with JT, just so he can troll Trump and call himself governor. But that’s childish and probably too inside baseball for Americans to understand they’d think he made himself dictator.
posted by WaterAndPixels at 7:44 PM on March 9 [4 favorites]
I’d say no chance, but I’m not Carney so we’ll have to wait and see. She did blew up JT spectacularly, and that doesn’t sit well with other members of the caucus. And they’ll want some distance from the previous caucus on key positions.
Not a Liberal voter, but like everybody here I’ll take Carney any day before PP. He might be a banker/economist but we could do worse if we’ll get in a trade war, I just hope he has some part brawler in him. I did like that line about markets having no values and that’s why you have government, but that’s just talk until backed with actions.
I fear he’ll crash and burn in the election, especially with that brand of conservatism running against him but that can also backfire since PP hasn’t really cultivated a team around him that can go in media and he’s very off putting to many.
Carney should replace Mary Simon with JT, just so he can troll Trump and call himself governor. But that’s childish and probably too inside baseball for Americans to understand they’d think he made himself dictator.
posted by WaterAndPixels at 7:44 PM on March 9 [4 favorites]
Papineau? Justin's not going back to being a regular MP.
There’s a bunch of unassailable Liberal strongholds in the West Island of Montreal. All way easier than Papineau. And Carney’s French is not good enough to run in that riding.
posted by WaterAndPixels at 7:47 PM on March 9 [6 favorites]
There’s a bunch of unassailable Liberal strongholds in the West Island of Montreal. All way easier than Papineau. And Carney’s French is not good enough to run in that riding.
posted by WaterAndPixels at 7:47 PM on March 9 [6 favorites]
I have to grit my teeth to support a central banker but it may have come to that.
You're not marrying him.
posted by ocschwar at 7:50 PM on March 9 [10 favorites]
I presume most people still have tremendous respect for Chrystia Freeland, and she could presumably come back and try again. I think for a lot of reasons though she's not the candidate for the moment. Even though it's exciting to see the huge shift in the polls, I suspect it's still going to be an up hill battle for the liberals.
This is going to be a very interesting election. On one hand I suspect it's going to be particularly vicious, as the two candidates tar and feather each other. On the other hand I think it's going to be very easy to misstep with messaging - Canadians are feeling unusually unified at the moment, and turning this into us vs. them could backfire.
Oh yah, and the NDP. Will they be relevant? At all? I like Jagmeet Singh, but part of me wishes he'd stayed in Ontario.
She did blew up JT spectacularly, and that doesn’t sit well with other members of the caucus.
I've seen this kind of sentiment a lot, but I honestly wonder if the falling out was relatively staged. I could be entirely wrong, but if she was going to have a snowball's chance in hell of becoming leader she was going to have to distance her self from him heavily.
posted by Alex404 at 7:52 PM on March 9 [1 favorite]
This is going to be a very interesting election. On one hand I suspect it's going to be particularly vicious, as the two candidates tar and feather each other. On the other hand I think it's going to be very easy to misstep with messaging - Canadians are feeling unusually unified at the moment, and turning this into us vs. them could backfire.
Oh yah, and the NDP. Will they be relevant? At all? I like Jagmeet Singh, but part of me wishes he'd stayed in Ontario.
She did blew up JT spectacularly, and that doesn’t sit well with other members of the caucus.
I've seen this kind of sentiment a lot, but I honestly wonder if the falling out was relatively staged. I could be entirely wrong, but if she was going to have a snowball's chance in hell of becoming leader she was going to have to distance her self from him heavily.
posted by Alex404 at 7:52 PM on March 9 [1 favorite]
I think Freeland was kind of wasted at Finance. She wants to be where the deals are negotiated, when relationships are built and where her real strengths are: analyzing the intersection of politics, power and economics. She would make a great Foreign Minister again. I personally think that's where she is strongest, where her natural talents and interests lie. She was the best we've had in a generation. Since maybe Lloyd Axworthy, though ranking even those two would be tough.
She would make a really great lead for a Canadian free trade amongst the provinces. She would be a very strong defender of Canada in the coming third go round on NAFTA/USMCA (though she terrifies Trump and Navarro despises her). In normal times, head of ESDC, making deals. I could even see her at environment, if the world could come back to talking seriously about climate change again. She could lead that international effort too.
But not Finance. She's proven she could do it, but I don't think she liked it, or was really passionate about it.
posted by bonehead at 8:02 PM on March 9 [12 favorites]
She would make a really great lead for a Canadian free trade amongst the provinces. She would be a very strong defender of Canada in the coming third go round on NAFTA/USMCA (though she terrifies Trump and Navarro despises her). In normal times, head of ESDC, making deals. I could even see her at environment, if the world could come back to talking seriously about climate change again. She could lead that international effort too.
But not Finance. She's proven she could do it, but I don't think she liked it, or was really passionate about it.
posted by bonehead at 8:02 PM on March 9 [12 favorites]
I’m hopeful. We’ll see how long that feeling lasts.
posted by eekernohan at 8:19 PM on March 9
posted by eekernohan at 8:19 PM on March 9
The issue with the carbon tax is the name. If this was called anything else it - environmental investment? greenhouse levy? - it could have faded into the background of the various taxes and fees Canadians pay. But it had the word "tax" tied to it so it was an easy target
Mark Carney coming out against is a political move, not a personal one. He literally wrote a book on the importance of valuing ESG over rising stock prices.
posted by thecjm at 8:39 PM on March 9 [3 favorites]
Mark Carney coming out against is a political move, not a personal one. He literally wrote a book on the importance of valuing ESG over rising stock prices.
posted by thecjm at 8:39 PM on March 9 [3 favorites]
Am I correct in saying Carney will be the first PM from the territories? He grew up in Edmonton but was born in Fort Smith, Northwest Territories and lived there until he was 6.
posted by thecjm at 8:50 PM on March 9 [3 favorites]
posted by thecjm at 8:50 PM on March 9 [3 favorites]
I would be happier if there were never a finance bro holding the levers of power again, anywhere in the world, tbh. But i'll take Carney over Poilievre any day.
I live in a Con/Lib swing riding—they've traded back and forth every election since i've lived here!—so i'll be carefully watching the polling in the run-up to the election to see whether i can afford to vote for the NDP candidate (who's not going to win no matter what) or whether i need to hold my nose and vote strategically for the Liberal candidate.
posted by adrienneleigh at 8:52 PM on March 9 [3 favorites]
I live in a Con/Lib swing riding—they've traded back and forth every election since i've lived here!—so i'll be carefully watching the polling in the run-up to the election to see whether i can afford to vote for the NDP candidate (who's not going to win no matter what) or whether i need to hold my nose and vote strategically for the Liberal candidate.
posted by adrienneleigh at 8:52 PM on March 9 [3 favorites]
I've seen this kind of sentiment a lot, but I honestly wonder if the falling out was relatively staged. I could be entirely wrong, but if she was going to have a snowball's chance in hell of becoming leader she was going to have to distance her self from him heavily.
My read was the opposite - Trudeau making on last grasp at holding power and wanting Freeland to take the blame for everything and instead she noped out.
posted by thecjm at 8:53 PM on March 9 [3 favorites]
My read was the opposite - Trudeau making on last grasp at holding power and wanting Freeland to take the blame for everything and instead she noped out.
posted by thecjm at 8:53 PM on March 9 [3 favorites]
The issue with the carbon tax is the name.
But the federal carbon tax is officially a "pollution pricing charge". Of course, those who opposed it called it a tax and the name stuck (also BC's version, which long predates the federal charge, was always called a tax, which didn't help).
But fundamentally, something changed in the public discourse about climate policy after the first couple years of the pandemic and it became politically expedient to simply pretend climate change is no longer a problem we need to take seriously. The issue here is bigger than nomenclature.
posted by ssg at 8:56 PM on March 9 [7 favorites]
But the federal carbon tax is officially a "pollution pricing charge". Of course, those who opposed it called it a tax and the name stuck (also BC's version, which long predates the federal charge, was always called a tax, which didn't help).
But fundamentally, something changed in the public discourse about climate policy after the first couple years of the pandemic and it became politically expedient to simply pretend climate change is no longer a problem we need to take seriously. The issue here is bigger than nomenclature.
posted by ssg at 8:56 PM on March 9 [7 favorites]
METAFILTER: i need to hold my nose and vote strategically for the Liberal candidate.
posted by philip-random at 9:04 PM on March 9 [9 favorites]
posted by philip-random at 9:04 PM on March 9 [9 favorites]
Stephen Harper, the odious former PM of Canada, is the head of The International Democracy Union, an organization of right wing political parties. Hungary's Orban is a big presence in it, and even though they claim centre right to right wing my own sense is that it is extreme right wing, and pushes 'Illiberalism', the vile Hungarian ethos that has all but destroyed democracy in that country.
I mention this because along with his ties to homegrown extreme right wing types, Poilievre functions in the long shadow Harper continues to cast on the Cons, and if he is elected PM we will get a watered down Canadian version of Illiberalism mixed with Trumpism. Poilievere is a lot more dangerous, in my opinion, than people generally believe.
So, good for Mark Carney, he's a great contrast to Poilievere, even though my guess is if he wins we will be further right as far as the economy goes which isn't great but at this point anything that can put PP out to pasture is welcome and I think Carney has the best shot a doing that.
I live in one of the strongest NDP ridings in the country, rapidly gentrifying East Van, so, that is where my vote will go.
Also, as one of his last acts Trudeau put out this video yesterday taking Poilievre to task over the security clearance he refuses to get.
posted by Phlegmco(tm) at 9:58 PM on March 9 [11 favorites]
I mention this because along with his ties to homegrown extreme right wing types, Poilievre functions in the long shadow Harper continues to cast on the Cons, and if he is elected PM we will get a watered down Canadian version of Illiberalism mixed with Trumpism. Poilievere is a lot more dangerous, in my opinion, than people generally believe.
So, good for Mark Carney, he's a great contrast to Poilievere, even though my guess is if he wins we will be further right as far as the economy goes which isn't great but at this point anything that can put PP out to pasture is welcome and I think Carney has the best shot a doing that.
I live in one of the strongest NDP ridings in the country, rapidly gentrifying East Van, so, that is where my vote will go.
Also, as one of his last acts Trudeau put out this video yesterday taking Poilievre to task over the security clearance he refuses to get.
posted by Phlegmco(tm) at 9:58 PM on March 9 [11 favorites]
And I'm not so sure that it's a big win to implement the opposition's preferred policies for them.
I won't name the country, you know this country; everyone knows this country. But they recently had an election where enough on the left basically used this very same line of argument to dissuade voters and help elect the right-wing extremist, the same guy who is now causing Canada serious, existential problems.
Don't be like that country and don't be like those useful idiots. Because Poilievre is just as much of a stooge for Russian interests in destabilizing Canada as that other nameless country's leader. For the love of God, please make an active decision to choose not to help out Poilievre's campaign.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 10:54 PM on March 9 [16 favorites]
I won't name the country, you know this country; everyone knows this country. But they recently had an election where enough on the left basically used this very same line of argument to dissuade voters and help elect the right-wing extremist, the same guy who is now causing Canada serious, existential problems.
Don't be like that country and don't be like those useful idiots. Because Poilievre is just as much of a stooge for Russian interests in destabilizing Canada as that other nameless country's leader. For the love of God, please make an active decision to choose not to help out Poilievre's campaign.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 10:54 PM on March 9 [16 favorites]
If someone's trying to conduct economic warfare on your country then choosing a former head of two central banks seems akin to voting in a five star general to lead you in a shooting war.
posted by Just this guy, y'know at 2:37 AM on March 10 [8 favorites]
posted by Just this guy, y'know at 2:37 AM on March 10 [8 favorites]
My perspective on the Lib leadership results is that Freeland wasn't able to cobble together much support for the same reason that the NDP is tanking in the polls right now. Freeland shanked Trudeau, and Singh ripped up the Confidence and Supply agreement. One can argue that those moves were somehow necessary, but I think they were both widely perceived as back-stabbing.
No one wants to vote for Brutus, even if you weren't that big a fan of Caesar.
posted by mrjohnmuller at 4:05 AM on March 10 [1 favorite]
No one wants to vote for Brutus, even if you weren't that big a fan of Caesar.
posted by mrjohnmuller at 4:05 AM on March 10 [1 favorite]
ssg: But fundamentally, something changed in the public discourse about climate policy after the first couple years of the pandemic and it became politically expedient to simply pretend climate change is no longer a problem we need to take seriously. The issue here is bigger than nomenclature.
I think the problem is that a carbon tax has the usual complete lack of imagination of neoliberal policies: "Apply the correct incentive structure and the market will solve it."
Instead of building amazing low-carbon communities and making a big deal out of them so that people want to live that way, all that people see with a carbon tax is that their gas bill to drive to their single-family suburban dream home has gone up. A carbon tax supplies no new dreams, only punishments for continuing to hold on to your old dreams.
posted by clawsoon at 5:30 AM on March 10 [12 favorites]
I think the problem is that a carbon tax has the usual complete lack of imagination of neoliberal policies: "Apply the correct incentive structure and the market will solve it."
Instead of building amazing low-carbon communities and making a big deal out of them so that people want to live that way, all that people see with a carbon tax is that their gas bill to drive to their single-family suburban dream home has gone up. A carbon tax supplies no new dreams, only punishments for continuing to hold on to your old dreams.
posted by clawsoon at 5:30 AM on March 10 [12 favorites]
It is indeed annoying that the coddled simpletons of suburbia who defiantly refuse to dream beyond their own masturbatory personal comfort don't want to realize their way of life is not sustainable. Dreams like "a world that is not on fire" and "housing as a human right" just don't seem to interest, but they are right there on the nightstand for anyone who cares to take them to bed.
posted by seanmpuckett at 5:40 AM on March 10 [5 favorites]
posted by seanmpuckett at 5:40 AM on March 10 [5 favorites]
I would be happier if there were never a finance bro holding the levers of power again, anywhere in the world, tbh. But i'll take Carney over Poilievre any day.
This is a valid feeling, for sure. Though as finance guys go, Carney seems to believe that money can be a force for the collective good rather than a pursuit of the greedy. I’ve been picking through his book Values and while he gets into the weeds of world finance, he always seems to bring it back to the wellbeing of the people. So that is at least promising, I hope.
posted by eekernohan at 6:09 AM on March 10 [6 favorites]
This is a valid feeling, for sure. Though as finance guys go, Carney seems to believe that money can be a force for the collective good rather than a pursuit of the greedy. I’ve been picking through his book Values and while he gets into the weeds of world finance, he always seems to bring it back to the wellbeing of the people. So that is at least promising, I hope.
posted by eekernohan at 6:09 AM on March 10 [6 favorites]
Yeah, the subtleties matter. Carney seems to have prudent financial chops and a sense of social responsibility, which is very different from the typical "finance bro" political type, who is generally more concerned with hawking crypto investments, and tearing down society so that their buddies can buy up the scraps for cheap. I think his resume shows him to be a competent economy wonk, and someone who is well respected internationally, and that seems like good qualifications for the moment. Especially when contrasted against a loathsome little twerp like Poilievre, who has never had a real job, and has never even accomplished anything in his political career beyond degrading the culture of Parliament, and using his platform to spread division and conspiracies.
I am desperate for sober, competent leadership in Canada, as we deal with the rising threat of international fascism. I'm sick of the petty bickering and schoolyard antics in the HoC. I'm not a big Liberal Party supporter, but I would definitely crawl through broken glass to see Carney elected over Poilievre.
posted by mrjohnmuller at 6:27 AM on March 10 [4 favorites]
I am desperate for sober, competent leadership in Canada, as we deal with the rising threat of international fascism. I'm sick of the petty bickering and schoolyard antics in the HoC. I'm not a big Liberal Party supporter, but I would definitely crawl through broken glass to see Carney elected over Poilievre.
posted by mrjohnmuller at 6:27 AM on March 10 [4 favorites]
Give me boring politics every day all day
The tech startup approach of "move fast and break things" does not work for government, as we're witnessing south of the border.
I want a government that will "move prudently and fix things".
posted by Kabanos at 6:33 AM on March 10 [12 favorites]
The tech startup approach of "move fast and break things" does not work for government, as we're witnessing south of the border.
I want a government that will "move prudently and fix things".
posted by Kabanos at 6:33 AM on March 10 [12 favorites]
If Harris had won down South, and the internal politics of the Liberal party had remained the same (which actually seems likely to me), I suspect we'd be watching Freeland lead the Libs to an electoral defeat in the late summer. Carney might not have even entered the race for leadership.
posted by bonehead at 6:40 AM on March 10 [2 favorites]
posted by bonehead at 6:40 AM on March 10 [2 favorites]
Given that President Deranged Potato knows nothing of how our electoral systems work, I have no idea he will spout something stupid about it's sus that we have a new PM all of a sudden. He will likely say something about "rigged" and I'm like, well no it wasn't but you would know about rigged elections wouldn't you you absolute rotten radish.
posted by Kitteh at 6:44 AM on March 10 [5 favorites]
posted by Kitteh at 6:44 AM on March 10 [5 favorites]
Nah, he’ll just take credit for driving Trudeau out of office and mock him for running away in fear of the big strong man down south. He’s never missed an opportunity to crow about an imaginary victory. I doubt he’ll have too much to say about Carney unless the election happens and the Libs remain in power.
posted by saturday_morning at 6:51 AM on March 10 [6 favorites]
posted by saturday_morning at 6:51 AM on March 10 [6 favorites]
Oh to be a fly on the wall to hear the private convo between Carney and Trudeau about Trump
posted by Kitteh at 6:53 AM on March 10 [7 favorites]
posted by Kitteh at 6:53 AM on March 10 [7 favorites]
The tech startup approach of "move fast and break things" does not work for government, as we're witnessing south of the border.
I was about to say that FDR was a "move fast and break things" president, but I guess he was more of a "move fast and make things" president.
posted by clawsoon at 7:00 AM on March 10 [9 favorites]
I was about to say that FDR was a "move fast and break things" president, but I guess he was more of a "move fast and make things" president.
posted by clawsoon at 7:00 AM on March 10 [9 favorites]
I'd say prudent action can be swift!
Gawd, when will we return to nation building instead of world-wide nation destruction.
posted by Kabanos at 7:30 AM on March 10 [1 favorite]
Gawd, when will we return to nation building instead of world-wide nation destruction.
posted by Kabanos at 7:30 AM on March 10 [1 favorite]
nation building is only useful and defensible insofar as it's a step in the evolution of human relations to the point we no longer require nations
clearly we are not yet evolved beyond the need for nations
the verdict is out as to whether we will grow past this stage
posted by ginger.beef at 8:00 AM on March 10
clearly we are not yet evolved beyond the need for nations
the verdict is out as to whether we will grow past this stage
posted by ginger.beef at 8:00 AM on March 10
I’ve been a fan of Carney for decades. His life partner is very an environmentally conscious economist, and Carney has publicly said he is on the same side as Occupy and Greta. In the past few years I feel he has been more moderate in expressing his public opinions as him running for PM has been bandied around since at least his Bank of Canada days. Until a few months ago it was assumed he would sit out the leadership race after Trudeau knowing that leader would be a dead duck. Well things have changed drastically in just a few months.
In Canada we are used to seeing politicians (especially Liberals) campaign from the left and lead from the right. I think we have here the first case of a Liberal campaigning from the Right but will lead from the left.
posted by saucysault at 8:43 AM on March 10 [9 favorites]
In Canada we are used to seeing politicians (especially Liberals) campaign from the left and lead from the right. I think we have here the first case of a Liberal campaigning from the Right but will lead from the left.
posted by saucysault at 8:43 AM on March 10 [9 favorites]
I will eat my hat if a Carney government ends up to the left of the one we have now. Campaign from the centre-right, govern even further to the right seems a lot more likely to me.
posted by ssg at 8:52 AM on March 10 [3 favorites]
posted by ssg at 8:52 AM on March 10 [3 favorites]
Make Chrétien some kind of 'special envoy' to the US; can greet TFG with a Shawinigan Handshake. UNLEASH THE KRAKEN, eh!
posted by mazola at 8:52 AM on March 10 [3 favorites]
posted by mazola at 8:52 AM on March 10 [3 favorites]
Over in low information voter vibes-land, I’m just hoping that Carney is boring enough to not elicit the utterly weird psychosexual obsession a certain strain of conservative man has over Trudeau.
posted by btfreek at 8:53 AM on March 10 [8 favorites]
posted by btfreek at 8:53 AM on March 10 [8 favorites]
Carney's not hot enough for them to fantasize.
"AHEM yes, of course! totally zero feelings about that guy, not a single twinge from the ol' dingly-dangly, nothin here boy"
posted by ginger.beef at 9:15 AM on March 10 [1 favorite]
posted by ginger.beef at 9:15 AM on March 10 [1 favorite]
Philip-random: i need to hold my nose and vote strategically for the Liberal candidate.
Not in my riding! Out here on Vancouver Island its more like liberals need to vote NDP or Green to stop the cons running up the middle. Might shift a bit with what's going on but i doubt it.
saucysalt: I think we have here the first case of a Liberal campaigning from the Right but will lead from the left.
Oh, wow, I sure hope that proves true.
I did see some interviews where Carney was talking about cutting taxes but then tempered it with points about conserving childcare and dental. The convention seemed to boost the child tax benefits and abortion rights and Indigenous rights in the constitution ... along side pipeline pipeline pipeline.
So I guess we will see where the winds are blowing when the cabinet is picked?
posted by chapps at 9:36 AM on March 10 [2 favorites]
Not in my riding! Out here on Vancouver Island its more like liberals need to vote NDP or Green to stop the cons running up the middle. Might shift a bit with what's going on but i doubt it.
saucysalt: I think we have here the first case of a Liberal campaigning from the Right but will lead from the left.
Oh, wow, I sure hope that proves true.
I did see some interviews where Carney was talking about cutting taxes but then tempered it with points about conserving childcare and dental. The convention seemed to boost the child tax benefits and abortion rights and Indigenous rights in the constitution ... along side pipeline pipeline pipeline.
So I guess we will see where the winds are blowing when the cabinet is picked?
posted by chapps at 9:36 AM on March 10 [2 favorites]
It's suddenly possible that PP fails and gets turfed, and Doug quits as Ontario Premier to run for the federal Conservatives.
Jason Kenney has suddenly re-emerged on social media, so he may being trying a resurrection now that there's blood in the water for PP.
Given that President Deranged Potato knows nothing of how our electoral systems work, I have no idea he will spout something stupid about it's sus that we have a new PM all of a sudden.
He will pick up the thread I've been seeing from others, about how unfair it is that Carney gets to be PM without an election; completely ignorant of how Westminster parliaments work. Being in Alberta right now, it's kind of funny to watch this indignant reaction, given that our current Premier got into her position in pretty much the same way - leadership race, then a by-election, then a general election.
posted by nubs at 9:43 AM on March 10 [6 favorites]
Jason Kenney has suddenly re-emerged on social media, so he may being trying a resurrection now that there's blood in the water for PP.
Given that President Deranged Potato knows nothing of how our electoral systems work, I have no idea he will spout something stupid about it's sus that we have a new PM all of a sudden.
He will pick up the thread I've been seeing from others, about how unfair it is that Carney gets to be PM without an election; completely ignorant of how Westminster parliaments work. Being in Alberta right now, it's kind of funny to watch this indignant reaction, given that our current Premier got into her position in pretty much the same way - leadership race, then a by-election, then a general election.
posted by nubs at 9:43 AM on March 10 [6 favorites]
Philip-random: i need to hold my nose and vote strategically for the Liberal candidate.
Not in my riding! Out here on Vancouver Island its more like liberals need to vote NDP or Green to stop the cons running up the middle.
actually, that's true for me as well (Vancouver city) though my riding is perennial NDP. The overall point being as I've been known to say more than once around here:
The only wise move in a parliamentary democracy is to vote for the candidate who has the best chance of beating who you fear the most.
"No way. I'm voting my conscience," say some. Then let it be on your conscience that your vote/split allowed some asshole who hates you and everyone you love to sneak up the middle and win.
posted by philip-random at 9:47 AM on March 10 [3 favorites]
Not in my riding! Out here on Vancouver Island its more like liberals need to vote NDP or Green to stop the cons running up the middle.
actually, that's true for me as well (Vancouver city) though my riding is perennial NDP. The overall point being as I've been known to say more than once around here:
The only wise move in a parliamentary democracy is to vote for the candidate who has the best chance of beating who you fear the most.
"No way. I'm voting my conscience," say some. Then let it be on your conscience that your vote/split allowed some asshole who hates you and everyone you love to sneak up the middle and win.
posted by philip-random at 9:47 AM on March 10 [3 favorites]
Being in Alberta right now, it's kind of funny
you spelled "depressingly predictable" wrong
back in the good old days, the conservatives always chose "fiscal responsibility" over any social progress. Now we have a Real Live Economist and banker dude on the wings, well. They will all conveniently lose their fucking memories, I can practically hear the decal presses firing up as thousands of these assholes prepare to slap SNEAKY MARK CARNEY stickers over their FUCK TRUDEAUs
posted by ginger.beef at 9:54 AM on March 10 [5 favorites]
you spelled "depressingly predictable" wrong
back in the good old days, the conservatives always chose "fiscal responsibility" over any social progress. Now we have a Real Live Economist and banker dude on the wings, well. They will all conveniently lose their fucking memories, I can practically hear the decal presses firing up as thousands of these assholes prepare to slap SNEAKY MARK CARNEY stickers over their FUCK TRUDEAUs
posted by ginger.beef at 9:54 AM on March 10 [5 favorites]
It doesn't have quite the same ring, ginger.beef, but that's probably as creative as it will get for those muppets.
posted by Kitteh at 10:41 AM on March 10 [2 favorites]
posted by Kitteh at 10:41 AM on March 10 [2 favorites]
I'm an Albertan whose riding is solidly NDP. So I might have opinions about Liberal leadership, but I'm voting NDP anyways. If this leadership move is what's necessary to shore up traditional Liberal votes elsewhere then it seems like a good choice to me. (thumbs up emoji)
posted by mazola at 11:04 AM on March 10 [2 favorites]
posted by mazola at 11:04 AM on March 10 [2 favorites]
I don't think people from Eastern Canada realize how many ridings in Western Canada are Conservative vs NDP, where the Liberals are irrelevant. In my riding, the Liberals got less than 10% of the vote in the last two elections (and if they hadn't split the vote last time, the NDP would have won).
posted by ssg at 12:50 PM on March 10 [11 favorites]
posted by ssg at 12:50 PM on March 10 [11 favorites]
Yeah, our riding is definitely Lib vs Con, which is why i'm planning to watch the polling. If the Lib has a chance to pull out a win, i'll vote for them, but if it's obvious in the run-up that the Con is going to win my riding, i am gonna vote NDP. I do NOT want the NDP to decide to give up on my riding entirely, and that's also a strategic calculation.
posted by adrienneleigh at 1:23 PM on March 10 [5 favorites]
posted by adrienneleigh at 1:23 PM on March 10 [5 favorites]
I don't think people from Eastern Canada realize how many ridings in Western Canada are Conservative vs NDP, where the Liberals are irrelevant.
I really didn't! Thank you for letting me know that. One of the biggest problems we have in this country is that Ontario tends to do all the talking for everyone (or they try to) and it's not fair.
posted by Kitteh at 1:35 PM on March 10 [5 favorites]
I really didn't! Thank you for letting me know that. One of the biggest problems we have in this country is that Ontario tends to do all the talking for everyone (or they try to) and it's not fair.
posted by Kitteh at 1:35 PM on March 10 [5 favorites]
ginger.beef, I so wish you were wrong, but as a Calgarian (one of the 2.5 left-leaning people in the city), I have to admit that you're right. When I heard PP snark about "sneaky Mark Carney" I wept a little inside for the puerile and nasty name-calling politicking that has leaked over the 49th parallel. I know I'll be hearing it from acquaintances and strangers for at least the next couple of months (friends know better than to talk like that in front of me). I hate it.
I was listening to Peter Mansbridge, Chantal Hebert, and Rob Russo over on Mansbridge's podcast last week. Among the interesting things they noted: 1) Unlike Bill Davis with (IIRC) Brian Mulroney, Doug Ford has not offered the services of the Big Blue Machine to PP. This is a ray of hope for me that PP will disappear, along with the fact that the CPCs tend to eat their young. 2) Chantal Hebert said of Doug Ford's federal ambitions, "I will believe them when he holds a news conference in French." 3) Their speculation about a safe riding for Mark Carney was absolutely-not-Ottawa, but "on a line straight south of Whitehorse" which would put him running in the vicinity of Vancouver? I don't know enough about Canadian politics in general or Vancouver politics specifically to be able to comment.
If Stephen Harper could learn to speak French, surely Mark Carney can polish his.
posted by angiep at 1:47 PM on March 10 [5 favorites]
I was listening to Peter Mansbridge, Chantal Hebert, and Rob Russo over on Mansbridge's podcast last week. Among the interesting things they noted: 1) Unlike Bill Davis with (IIRC) Brian Mulroney, Doug Ford has not offered the services of the Big Blue Machine to PP. This is a ray of hope for me that PP will disappear, along with the fact that the CPCs tend to eat their young. 2) Chantal Hebert said of Doug Ford's federal ambitions, "I will believe them when he holds a news conference in French." 3) Their speculation about a safe riding for Mark Carney was absolutely-not-Ottawa, but "on a line straight south of Whitehorse" which would put him running in the vicinity of Vancouver? I don't know enough about Canadian politics in general or Vancouver politics specifically to be able to comment.
If Stephen Harper could learn to speak French, surely Mark Carney can polish his.
posted by angiep at 1:47 PM on March 10 [5 favorites]
Assuming they wouldn't kick Jonathan Wilkinson out of his seat and they wouldn't run a white guy in Surrey, there aren't a lot of safe Liberal ridings in the Lower Mainland (there are no Liberal ridings at all in the rest of the province). Maybe if Hedy Fry was retiring?
posted by ssg at 2:03 PM on March 10 [1 favorite]
posted by ssg at 2:03 PM on March 10 [1 favorite]
I admit it's not very likely, but it would be very funny if Hedy Fry stood aside for Carney, and then he lost to Avi Lewis.
posted by Gerald Bostock at 2:37 PM on March 10 [1 favorite]
posted by Gerald Bostock at 2:37 PM on March 10 [1 favorite]
they recently had an election where enough on the left basically used this very same line of argument to dissuade voters and help elect the right-wing extremist, the same guy who is now causing Canada serious, existential problems.
So is there ever a time when it is okay to criticize politicians?
posted by adrienneleigh at 2:50 PM on March 10 [4 favorites]
So is there ever a time when it is okay to criticize politicians?
posted by adrienneleigh at 2:50 PM on March 10 [4 favorites]
Is the goal simply to criticize politicians or is the goal to prevent harm to the greatest number of people and/or improve the lives of the greatest number of people? If the latter, then taking into account the knock on effects of how and when the criticism is levied seems very appropriate.
posted by Justinian at 4:00 PM on March 10 [3 favorites]
posted by Justinian at 4:00 PM on March 10 [3 favorites]
I mean, ultimately the goal is to make politicians use power to do good things and not bad things, obviously, which of course involves pointing out when they do bad things (or say they are going to do bad things).
posted by adrienneleigh at 4:04 PM on March 10
posted by adrienneleigh at 4:04 PM on March 10
I think we can do without Americans* telling us what we are allowed to say about our politicians or not. It's a tiresome discussion that we've had a thousand times here on MetaFilter about the US, we definitely don't need to also have it applied to other countries as well by people who don't live in those countries.
* Judging by location, apologies if not actually Americans.
posted by ssg at 4:42 PM on March 10 [8 favorites]
* Judging by location, apologies if not actually Americans.
posted by ssg at 4:42 PM on March 10 [8 favorites]
Final pic of JT leaving the House of Commons … it looks like how I l feel when leaving a job
posted by St. Peepsburg at 7:02 PM on March 10 [1 favorite]
posted by St. Peepsburg at 7:02 PM on March 10 [1 favorite]
I’m just hoping that Carney is boring enough to not elicit the utterly weird psychosexual obsession a certain strain of conservative man has over Trudeau.
Unfortunately, Carney is the same number of letter letters as Trudeau, so Carney will still fit on the barn I have to look at on the way into work during elections.
This is visible from the Tim Hortons Drive thru line, which can mean being in one's sightline for ten minutes or more.
This is in Poilievre's riding, of course.
posted by bonehead at 8:47 PM on March 10 [2 favorites]
Unfortunately, Carney is the same number of letter letters as Trudeau, so Carney will still fit on the barn I have to look at on the way into work during elections.
This is visible from the Tim Hortons Drive thru line, which can mean being in one's sightline for ten minutes or more.
This is in Poilievre's riding, of course.
posted by bonehead at 8:47 PM on March 10 [2 favorites]
petition to change national motto to "peace, justice and good government"
because "order" is bullshit
posted by seanmpuckett at 5:05 AM on March 11 [5 favorites]
because "order" is bullshit
posted by seanmpuckett at 5:05 AM on March 11 [5 favorites]
I don't think people from Eastern Canada realize how many ridings in Western Canada are Conservative vs NDP, where the Liberals are irrelevant.
One of the biggest problems we have in this country is that Ontario tends to do all the talking for everyone (or they try to) and it's not fair.
I realize this is just how everybody west of Winnipeg talks but as a Nova Scotian I really hate this thing where "Ontario" is "Eastern Canada" like there aren't five more provinces to the east of them, like Quebec and the Atlantic Provinces still exist and the phrase "Upper Canada" is right there if you don't want to just say Ontario.
Anyway I'm a natural NDP voter but will be voting Liberal since I'm in Darren Fisher's riding and he's (a) the incumbent and (b) helped me personally to get the right to vote back when it was taken away while I lived in the US and (c) did really good work saving an area of our harbour that was slated to be destroyed environmentally. If it looked like the NDP candidate here would win handily I'd switch of course, but it's some guy I've never heard of, according to this site. Looking him up, he's former Navy school teacher involved in theatre, which is like catnip for me but ¯\_(ツ)_/¯.
Apparently we also have a People's Party of Canada candidate who is of course one of the blond-haired, blue-eyed women they churn out in a factory somewhere.
posted by joannemerriam at 6:05 AM on March 11 [4 favorites]
One of the biggest problems we have in this country is that Ontario tends to do all the talking for everyone (or they try to) and it's not fair.
I realize this is just how everybody west of Winnipeg talks but as a Nova Scotian I really hate this thing where "Ontario" is "Eastern Canada" like there aren't five more provinces to the east of them, like Quebec and the Atlantic Provinces still exist and the phrase "Upper Canada" is right there if you don't want to just say Ontario.
Anyway I'm a natural NDP voter but will be voting Liberal since I'm in Darren Fisher's riding and he's (a) the incumbent and (b) helped me personally to get the right to vote back when it was taken away while I lived in the US and (c) did really good work saving an area of our harbour that was slated to be destroyed environmentally. If it looked like the NDP candidate here would win handily I'd switch of course, but it's some guy I've never heard of, according to this site. Looking him up, he's former Navy school teacher involved in theatre, which is like catnip for me but ¯\_(ツ)_/¯.
Apparently we also have a People's Party of Canada candidate who is of course one of the blond-haired, blue-eyed women they churn out in a factory somewhere.
posted by joannemerriam at 6:05 AM on March 11 [4 favorites]
the phrase "Upper Canada" is right there if you don't want to just say Ontario
Ontario and Quebec are also known as "central Canada".
posted by orange swan at 6:16 AM on March 11 [2 favorites]
Ontario and Quebec are also known as "central Canada".
posted by orange swan at 6:16 AM on March 11 [2 favorites]
What can Canada expect from its next PM? The Mark Carney I knew
- Larry Elliott, Guardian
posted by Artful Codger at 7:10 AM on March 11
- Larry Elliott, Guardian
posted by Artful Codger at 7:10 AM on March 11
^ "George Clooney lookalike"
Is it customary to drop acid before writing an article for the Guardian
posted by ginger.beef at 7:18 AM on March 11 [4 favorites]
Is it customary to drop acid before writing an article for the Guardian
posted by ginger.beef at 7:18 AM on March 11 [4 favorites]
Ontario and Quebec are also known as "central Canada".
In Western Canada, we're all very aware of where the centre of the universe is.
posted by ssg at 7:26 AM on March 11 [3 favorites]
In Western Canada, we're all very aware of where the centre of the universe is.
posted by ssg at 7:26 AM on March 11 [3 favorites]
Is it customary to drop acid before writing an article for the Guardian
does George Clooney look different in the UK
posted by Kitteh at 7:28 AM on March 11 [5 favorites]
does George Clooney look different in the UK
posted by Kitteh at 7:28 AM on March 11 [5 favorites]
Ontario and Quebec are also known as "central Canada".
Just as wrongly, since Manitoba is central Canada (geographically), but nitpicks like that aside, it's not always useful to lump Quebec in with Ontario when complaining about regional stuff.
Anyway apologies for the derail.
In Tim Houston's Facebook posts' comments, which I read and really shouldn't, the Conservatives are all losing their minds about an "unelected leader" like "this is not the Canada I know", "it's fascist," etc etc like they never heard of John Turner or Kim Campbell.
posted by joannemerriam at 7:54 AM on March 11 [1 favorite]
Just as wrongly, since Manitoba is central Canada (geographically), but nitpicks like that aside, it's not always useful to lump Quebec in with Ontario when complaining about regional stuff.
Anyway apologies for the derail.
In Tim Houston's Facebook posts' comments, which I read and really shouldn't, the Conservatives are all losing their minds about an "unelected leader" like "this is not the Canada I know", "it's fascist," etc etc like they never heard of John Turner or Kim Campbell.
posted by joannemerriam at 7:54 AM on March 11 [1 favorite]
Or Danielle Smith?
posted by saturday_morning at 7:55 AM on March 11 [4 favorites]
posted by saturday_morning at 7:55 AM on March 11 [4 favorites]
Again, our own people are losing any knowledge about how their own system works because they're being infected by the US and the way it talks about politics.
posted by Kitteh at 7:56 AM on March 11 [4 favorites]
posted by Kitteh at 7:56 AM on March 11 [4 favorites]
Oddly enough both Carney and Freeland were raised in Edmonton, both went to Harvard for their undergrad degree. Both then went to Oxford . (She as a Rhodes scholar) Both received their Masters degree in 1993 from Oxford.
posted by yyz at 8:13 AM on March 11 [4 favorites]
posted by yyz at 8:13 AM on March 11 [4 favorites]
The CN Tower isn't just aesthetic, it's actually the axis around which the world turns.
posted by bonehead at 8:20 AM on March 11 [10 favorites]
posted by bonehead at 8:20 AM on March 11 [10 favorites]
Tbh, the views from the CN Tower are fantastic.
posted by Kitteh at 8:22 AM on March 11 [4 favorites]
posted by Kitteh at 8:22 AM on March 11 [4 favorites]
Nanos has the CPC and the Grits in a dead heat this morning. Most polls have been narrowing fast. This one is just the latest of many. Speculation currently is that Carney will call an election for late April or early May.
At least we don't need to worry about a CPC supermajority now. That to my mind was the bigger threat than Trump's tariffs. A CPC 5-year majority would likely be a lot more deleterious than the probable short/medium-term trade war.
posted by bonehead at 8:26 AM on March 11 [12 favorites]
At least we don't need to worry about a CPC supermajority now. That to my mind was the bigger threat than Trump's tariffs. A CPC 5-year majority would likely be a lot more deleterious than the probable short/medium-term trade war.
posted by bonehead at 8:26 AM on March 11 [12 favorites]
That jump is incredible. Interesting to see when the last time that happened was (Liberals get the Trudeau bump when he's coming and going!).
posted by mazola at 8:44 AM on March 11 [1 favorite]
posted by mazola at 8:44 AM on March 11 [1 favorite]
like they never heard of John Turner or Kim Campbell
Or Doug Ford, or Danielle Smith ...
posted by Gerald Bostock at 8:52 AM on March 11 [1 favorite]
Or Doug Ford, or Danielle Smith ...
posted by Gerald Bostock at 8:52 AM on March 11 [1 favorite]
Ontario and Quebec are also known as "central Canada".
Just as wrongly, since Manitoba is central Canada (geographically), but nitpicks like that aside, it's not always useful to lump Quebec in with Ontario when complaining about regional stuff.
I thought these divisions were "official" -- like actually kind of build into the Canadian Consitution: Atlantic Provinces (NL, NS, PEI, NB), Maritime Provinces (NS, PEI, NB), Centre (ON PQ), Prairies (MB, SK, AB), and BC (BC). West (MB, SK, AB, BC) . In no grouping I've heard is MB central. So the way I thought these were essentially encoded in law, I thought, was that the number of Senate seats was intended to balance the representation by region (just West, East, Central, I think?). I thought I learned this in middle school, though as you can see I don't remember the details.
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 9:09 AM on March 11 [1 favorite]
Just as wrongly, since Manitoba is central Canada (geographically), but nitpicks like that aside, it's not always useful to lump Quebec in with Ontario when complaining about regional stuff.
I thought these divisions were "official" -- like actually kind of build into the Canadian Consitution: Atlantic Provinces (NL, NS, PEI, NB), Maritime Provinces (NS, PEI, NB), Centre (ON PQ), Prairies (MB, SK, AB), and BC (BC). West (MB, SK, AB, BC) . In no grouping I've heard is MB central. So the way I thought these were essentially encoded in law, I thought, was that the number of Senate seats was intended to balance the representation by region (just West, East, Central, I think?). I thought I learned this in middle school, though as you can see I don't remember the details.
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 9:09 AM on March 11 [1 favorite]
For my citizenship test, a silly mnemonic that helped me was "Basmoq and the Maritimes" (British Columbia, Alberta, Saskatchewan, Manitoba, Ontario, Quebec.) I would think of Basmoq as a dancing clown.
posted by Kitteh at 9:22 AM on March 11
posted by Kitteh at 9:22 AM on March 11
You're missing NL.
I would spell BASMOQ with and A (BASMAQ) and then go crazy trying to remember the second A. I know I would do this both because it's just how I would spell that sound phonetically, and because in middle school when I had to list the great lakes on a text I went crazy using the mnemonic HOUSE and trying to remember the name of the lake starts with U. The correct mnemonic is HOMES.
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 9:36 AM on March 11 [3 favorites]
I would spell BASMOQ with and A (BASMAQ) and then go crazy trying to remember the second A. I know I would do this both because it's just how I would spell that sound phonetically, and because in middle school when I had to list the great lakes on a text I went crazy using the mnemonic HOUSE and trying to remember the name of the lake starts with U. The correct mnemonic is HOMES.
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 9:36 AM on March 11 [3 favorites]
That's fair. I tend to lump NL in with the rest of the Maritimes.
The test still didn't ask me anything about the noble beaver despite it being REALLY emphasized in the study materials.
posted by Kitteh at 9:42 AM on March 11 [1 favorite]
The test still didn't ask me anything about the noble beaver despite it being REALLY emphasized in the study materials.
posted by Kitteh at 9:42 AM on March 11 [1 favorite]
Federally, the public service often lumps the country into 5 groups: Atlantic, Quebec, Ontario, Prairie (and Northern), and BC. A lot (but not all) of federal programs are delivered this way.
The "Maritimes" specifically refers to NB, PEI, and NS. With NL&L, it's the Atlantic Provinces---NL&L doesn't like being called one of the Maritime provinces. That's rooted in their history of being independent of Canada for most of their history.
Northern often links to the Prairies because of the important supply networks from Winnipeg and Edmonton. Though Ottawa is one of those nodes of supply as well, so it doesn't work perfectly.
posted by bonehead at 9:57 AM on March 11 [3 favorites]
The "Maritimes" specifically refers to NB, PEI, and NS. With NL&L, it's the Atlantic Provinces---NL&L doesn't like being called one of the Maritime provinces. That's rooted in their history of being independent of Canada for most of their history.
Northern often links to the Prairies because of the important supply networks from Winnipeg and Edmonton. Though Ottawa is one of those nodes of supply as well, so it doesn't work perfectly.
posted by bonehead at 9:57 AM on March 11 [3 favorites]
I don't think people from Eastern Canada realize how many ridings in Western Canada are Conservative vs NDP, where the Liberals are irrelevant.
Long thread. Maybe this has been mentioned already. In at least one previous federal election, there was a website that offered info as to which party (based on most recent polling) had the best chance of beating the Conservatives in your riding.
Very helpful.
posted by philip-random at 9:59 AM on March 11 [1 favorite]
Long thread. Maybe this has been mentioned already. In at least one previous federal election, there was a website that offered info as to which party (based on most recent polling) had the best chance of beating the Conservatives in your riding.
Very helpful.
posted by philip-random at 9:59 AM on March 11 [1 favorite]
actually kind of build into the Canadian Consitution
That's wild, I had no idea. First I am hearing of BASMOQ or "central Canada" being anything other than a convenient shorthand. Where in the Charter is this? Not that I don't believe you guys but I was never taught any of this stuff.
posted by joannemerriam at 10:00 AM on March 11
That's wild, I had no idea. First I am hearing of BASMOQ or "central Canada" being anything other than a convenient shorthand. Where in the Charter is this? Not that I don't believe you guys but I was never taught any of this stuff.
posted by joannemerriam at 10:00 AM on March 11
BASMOQ was something Shepherd recommended to me when I was studying for citizenship. I don't think it's official! :)
posted by Kitteh at 10:08 AM on March 11 [2 favorites]
posted by Kitteh at 10:08 AM on March 11 [2 favorites]
→
That would be a massive aspirational flex, or at the very least, never aligned with historical precedent. Canada doesn't do justice very well (our home on native land, etc.). Order we've done very well, quite frequently in ways we shouldn't be proud of, often POSIWID and sometimes even as an imperative (as in "shut it, or else"). Also, justice gets overused by those guys down south, and that's working out just lovely. Lastly, how would one attempt to pronounce "pjgg"?
posted by scruss at 11:02 AM on March 11 [6 favorites]
petition to change national motto to "peace, justice and good government"
That would be a massive aspirational flex, or at the very least, never aligned with historical precedent. Canada doesn't do justice very well (our home on native land, etc.). Order we've done very well, quite frequently in ways we shouldn't be proud of, often POSIWID and sometimes even as an imperative (as in "shut it, or else"). Also, justice gets overused by those guys down south, and that's working out just lovely. Lastly, how would one attempt to pronounce "pjgg"?
posted by scruss at 11:02 AM on March 11 [6 favorites]
I thought the way it was enshrined in the constitution (not Charter) was in the allocation of Senate seats.
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 11:03 AM on March 11 [1 favorite]
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 11:03 AM on March 11 [1 favorite]
Yes constitutionally there are 4 regions with NL and the territories not included in any.
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 11:06 AM on March 11 [2 favorites]
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 11:06 AM on March 11 [2 favorites]
And PEI's constitutionally-enshrined four senate seats mean they get four house seats which means their votes are worth roughly four times as much as the rest of ours. Annoys me every time I think about it.
posted by ssg at 12:18 PM on March 11 [3 favorites]
posted by ssg at 12:18 PM on March 11 [3 favorites]
eastern Canada is where you can get a mcLobster, everyone knows that
posted by St. Peepsburg at 12:25 PM on March 11 [3 favorites]
posted by St. Peepsburg at 12:25 PM on March 11 [3 favorites]
Wikipedia says: "The appointment is made primarily by four divisions, each having twenty-four senators: the Maritime division, the Quebec division, the Ontario division, and the Western division."
I had to look it up, as I'll freely admit I have never paid one iota of attention to our senate. Ontario and Quebec are separate, though, so no "central Canada."
the territories not included in any
Your link says: "Newfoundland and Labrador is represented by six senators. The Northwest Territories, Yukon and Nunavut have one senator each."
Note the NL seats are not part of the Maritime division.
posted by joannemerriam at 12:35 PM on March 11
I had to look it up, as I'll freely admit I have never paid one iota of attention to our senate. Ontario and Quebec are separate, though, so no "central Canada."
the territories not included in any
Your link says: "Newfoundland and Labrador is represented by six senators. The Northwest Territories, Yukon and Nunavut have one senator each."
Note the NL seats are not part of the Maritime division.
posted by joannemerriam at 12:35 PM on March 11
ssg, I think it's only about twice as much as BC, Ontario, and Alberta, and then a different slightly smaller amount for the other provinces. By population, PEI should have 2 seats according to this.
I am learning so much from this discussion.
posted by joannemerriam at 12:43 PM on March 11 [1 favorite]
I am learning so much from this discussion.
posted by joannemerriam at 12:43 PM on March 11 [1 favorite]
I was off in my numbers a bit (and PEI has grown quite a lot recently apparently), PEI only has about 3 times as much representation as AB, BC, ON or QC. They'd only get two seats by rounding up.
posted by ssg at 1:04 PM on March 11 [1 favorite]
posted by ssg at 1:04 PM on March 11 [1 favorite]
And PEI's constitutionally-enshrined four senate seats mean they get four house seats which means their votes are worth roughly four times as much as the rest of ours. Annoys me every time I think about it.
None of us are voting for senators.
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 1:49 PM on March 11
None of us are voting for senators.
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 1:49 PM on March 11
joannemerriam, i meant nl and territtories are not included in any of any of the 4 regions.
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 1:52 PM on March 11 [2 favorites]
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 1:52 PM on March 11 [2 favorites]
We're not voting for senators, but our constitution says there must be as many MPs for each province as there are senators. And since PEI has 4 senators, they get four MPs, even though they should only have one or two based on population, depending on how you round. All of the Atlantic provinces get extra seats through this mechanism.
There's also a clause that no province can have fewer seats than they did in 2019, which gives extra seats to MB, SK, QC, NS and NL. Of course, the territories get one seat each as well, so basically the end result is BC, AB and ON are under-represented and everyone else is over-represented.
posted by ssg at 2:03 PM on March 11 [3 favorites]
There's also a clause that no province can have fewer seats than they did in 2019, which gives extra seats to MB, SK, QC, NS and NL. Of course, the territories get one seat each as well, so basically the end result is BC, AB and ON are under-represented and everyone else is over-represented.
posted by ssg at 2:03 PM on March 11 [3 favorites]
While the electoral math is mostly in unwritten constitution/customary practice territory (especially for the number of common seats), it's worth remembering that the (written) constitution treats provinces as individually sovereign in the confederation. The Supreme Court generally does too.
Canada doesn't have legal districts the way the US does, for example, we have Superior Court of each province and the national court. Nor do we have the (separate) regionalized central banking or energy administration systems they do.
So in most of the ways that actually matter to people, laws and regulations, the lines that matter for governments are drawn by provincial borders. The formulas for the number of federal reps they get is the only real major exception to this.
The other groupings the feds use are strictly for convenience sake and have no basis in anything beyond administrative custom or economies of scale.
posted by bonehead at 3:14 PM on March 11 [3 favorites]
Canada doesn't have legal districts the way the US does, for example, we have Superior Court of each province and the national court. Nor do we have the (separate) regionalized central banking or energy administration systems they do.
So in most of the ways that actually matter to people, laws and regulations, the lines that matter for governments are drawn by provincial borders. The formulas for the number of federal reps they get is the only real major exception to this.
The other groupings the feds use are strictly for convenience sake and have no basis in anything beyond administrative custom or economies of scale.
posted by bonehead at 3:14 PM on March 11 [3 favorites]
Carney has been sworn in as our new PM; his cabinet picks are here.
posted by Kitteh at 9:17 AM on March 14 [2 favorites]
posted by Kitteh at 9:17 AM on March 14 [2 favorites]
why oh why is my useless ex-copper MP still minister of national defence? He must have some really spicy kompromat on Carney.
(and I'm trying really hard to think of everything but badger game material involving our new pm right now, please and thanks brain)
posted by scruss at 10:43 AM on March 14 [2 favorites]
(and I'm trying really hard to think of everything but badger game material involving our new pm right now, please and thanks brain)
posted by scruss at 10:43 AM on March 14 [2 favorites]
aaand that's the carbon tax gone. While it gives PP nothing to blove about, it will lose the Liberals some votes
posted by scruss at 2:57 PM on March 14 [3 favorites]
posted by scruss at 2:57 PM on March 14 [3 favorites]
As much as I don't like Blair continuing on in his portfolio, the pick that bothers me the most is Champagne for Finance. There is nothing that guy has done that makes me confident he's the right person for that job.
posted by sardonyx at 9:09 AM on March 15 [1 favorite]
posted by sardonyx at 9:09 AM on March 15 [1 favorite]
Sure, but remember the new PM is going to be the authority on most important Finance matters. Freeland is still in the Cabinet too. Champagne is maybe just a placeholder/spokesperson.
posted by Artful Codger at 9:13 AM on March 15
posted by Artful Codger at 9:13 AM on March 15
I just keep telling myself that this is just a placeholder cabinet until after the next election. The problem with that is that even as a spokesperson, Champagne is terrible. He was embarrassing to watch during the press conference after the meeting in Washington this week. I just kept wishing he would shut up and let LeBlanc or the ambassador speak.
posted by sardonyx at 9:32 AM on March 15 [1 favorite]
posted by sardonyx at 9:32 AM on March 15 [1 favorite]
it will lose the Liberals some votes
Not as many as it will gain from the move to the "fiscal right". I think there's likely far less green / orange Liberals than there are Blue Liberals. At this point in time the Tories have so dominated everything about the rebate programme and it has been shot through with so many holes I think the average Canadian hasn't a clue what it was supposed to do.
posted by Ashwagandha at 12:47 PM on March 15 [2 favorites]
Not as many as it will gain from the move to the "fiscal right". I think there's likely far less green / orange Liberals than there are Blue Liberals. At this point in time the Tories have so dominated everything about the rebate programme and it has been shot through with so many holes I think the average Canadian hasn't a clue what it was supposed to do.
posted by Ashwagandha at 12:47 PM on March 15 [2 favorites]
Did y'all watch that post-speech Q&A? That was a delight.
posted by St. Peepsburg at 1:43 PM on March 15
posted by St. Peepsburg at 1:43 PM on March 15
He did a good job, delivering solid answers, and managed to get a shot in a PP as well for bonus points.
It's funny I was listening to CNN and one of the anchors (maybe Kate Bolduan) was interviewing Paula Newton about her take on Carney, etc. Newton accused Carney of being "brittle" when answering questions and insisted that he didn't like answering them and didn't appreciate being asked questions. That's not at all how I'd describe his performance at that press conference.
posted by sardonyx at 4:37 PM on March 15
It's funny I was listening to CNN and one of the anchors (maybe Kate Bolduan) was interviewing Paula Newton about her take on Carney, etc. Newton accused Carney of being "brittle" when answering questions and insisted that he didn't like answering them and didn't appreciate being asked questions. That's not at all how I'd describe his performance at that press conference.
posted by sardonyx at 4:37 PM on March 15
sardonyx, it is just part of Operation Neg Canada. I am going to expect any US news source to report favourably our country anymore.
posted by Kitteh at 4:45 PM on March 15 [2 favorites]
posted by Kitteh at 4:45 PM on March 15 [2 favorites]
saw my first attack ad from the Cons today in markham. I scooted past it quickly, but it was something like Tax (picture of Carney) Relief (picture of PP).
Champagne might be crap, but at least he's not a sparkling finance minister.
Also I saw four cyberdumps today, one with its paper licence plate. What is this country coming to?
posted by scruss at 5:46 PM on March 15 [2 favorites]
Champagne might be crap, but at least he's not a sparkling finance minister.
Also I saw four cyberdumps today, one with its paper licence plate. What is this country coming to?
posted by scruss at 5:46 PM on March 15 [2 favorites]
Not as many as it will gain from the move to the "fiscal right". I think there's likely far less green / orange Liberals than there are Blue Liberals.
Yeah, this is the way the American Democrats decided to bet. And the problem with that is, your competition isn't just "people who vote for the opposing parties"; your competition is also people who stay home because none of the parties are willing to represent them.
posted by adrienneleigh at 8:59 PM on March 15 [2 favorites]
Yeah, this is the way the American Democrats decided to bet. And the problem with that is, your competition isn't just "people who vote for the opposing parties"; your competition is also people who stay home because none of the parties are willing to represent them.
posted by adrienneleigh at 8:59 PM on March 15 [2 favorites]
Sure, but the American assumption that the whole spectrum of political thoughts and wishes can be contained in just two parties is a serious flaw. In Canada, we also have the NDP, the Greens, the Bloc, and Canadians are more likely to vote for policy, person or issue, over party. So it's reasonable for Canadian parties to have clear beliefs and goals, instead of a weak, wishy-washy big-tent approach that makes the US Democrats so weak against the laser focus of the Trumpist GOP.
posted by Artful Codger at 7:23 AM on March 16 [3 favorites]
posted by Artful Codger at 7:23 AM on March 16 [3 favorites]
Carney government is on "war-time footing," says industry minister.
sigh.
posted by Kitteh at 9:48 AM on March 17 [3 favorites]
sigh.
posted by Kitteh at 9:48 AM on March 17 [3 favorites]
Trump Reveals Stunning Reason Why He’s Bullying Canada
TLDR?
TLDR?
“Only because it’s meant to be our fifty-first state"posted by Ashwagandha at 11:19 AM on March 19
« Older I have long been a wet-lipped, weak-kneed... | STEMinist Romance Novels Newer »
"Damn Carney really getting the digs in at Poilievre, calling him a career politician who has never put together a payroll and has never worked in the private sector, saying he'd "let the world burn"
I bet Poilievre is very unhappy tonight lmao"
From Gilmore's replies: "I bet that Poilievre is very unhappy every night."
posted by orange swan at 4:17 PM on March 9 [23 favorites]