A few key points in a debate on file sharing.
October 27, 2002 9:15 AM   Subscribe

A few key points in a debate on file sharing. Oddly enough, Hillary Rosen tried to say there are no copy protected CDs in the US.
posted by robotrock (15 comments total)
 
[this is good]
posted by Hankins at 9:45 AM on October 27, 2002


Hilary Rosen asks "Put up your hand if you download and burn music" (most hands go up). She then asks "Keep you hand up if you buy more music because of it" (many stay up).

if only she had asked, "Put your hand up if you refuse to buy a cd until I step down."
posted by tsarfan at 11:14 AM on October 27, 2002


Perhaps Hilary Rosen is technically correct. Philips has stated that many of these copy-protected discs cannot be classified as CDs, as they do not strictly adhere to the format.
posted by Galvatron at 12:05 PM on October 27, 2002


Perhaps Hillary Rosen is technically correct. Philips has stated that many of these copy-protected discs cannot be classified as CDs, as they do not strictly adhere to the format.

Perhaps. Altho, it is much like "I didn't inhale". You can easily make anything sound the way you want with a few choice words.

I will point out though, personally speaking, I am purchasing more music now that they are pricing more according. (in Canada at least, newer artists CDs are generally around $10-$12, compared to $16-$18 this time last year)

Of course, the industry shot themselves in the foot when this broke.
posted by robotrock at 12:48 PM on October 27, 2002


"is a threat to the future of music"
HA! HARDLY! Perhaps a threat to music as a living. But folks have been making music for free for as long as they have existed.
posted by HTuttle at 5:45 PM on October 27, 2002


There are no copy-protected CDs in the United States. Not if there's a Magic Marker nearby.
posted by tpoh.org at 7:07 PM on October 27, 2002


As to the suggestion that absolutely everyone who downloads a record goes out and buys it... bollocks. Maybe about 5% do, at a guess.

All that stuff about that woman trying to read that guy's t-shirt was irrelevant and downright childish. It was the equivalent of a 13 year-old wearing a Marilyn Manson t-shirt to church and thinking he's rebellion personified.

However much anti-RIAA spin this guy put on it and however bad or not their debating skills were, it's still theft.
posted by ed\26h at 2:04 AM on October 28, 2002


Ah yes, maybe only 5% do go out and buy a CD after downloading a few tracks off Kazaa. The question is, how many people would go out and buy the CD before listening to a sample?

The ease of fileswapping has another effect. It's quite easy to do a scattersearch - download stuff because it sounds interesting, or it's on the hard drive of another user who has lots of tracks you like. Just because you've downloaded something, it doesn't necessarily mean you have any great interest in the band. People would try new, unexplored stuff if they had to pay a pound/euro/dollar per download.
posted by salmacis at 3:21 AM on October 28, 2002


If the industry offered more opportunities to buy individual songs (singles, custom mix cd's etc) I might buy more music. I've gotten very sick of buying CDs and realizing that the only good song on them is the one they play on the radio. Perhaps if they concentrated on the quality of their releases than on fighting music downloads, they'd realize more sales.

It's really no different than when I tracked through a CD on a listening station and decided not to buy it because there was only one song on it I liked.
posted by greengrl at 5:09 AM on October 28, 2002


File sharing a "threat to the future of music"? Oh, pleeeeeeeeeeeease.............

I guess we'll have to go back to stone ages and MAKE OUR OWN MUSIC!

By the way, has anybody on this post ever been to a Celeidgh (pronounced KAY-lee) in Nova Scotia? Hint -- there's a place not far from NYC, somewhere where people gather to play and dance to their own unique, local music. They have been doing this for centuries. It's really fun.
posted by troutfishing at 5:34 AM on October 28, 2002


Oh yeah......I had a blast at the DC antiwar protest last weekend beating my drum (a Djembe). My hands are still puffy and sore, but what a good time. I drummed. People danced......beats the hell out of listening canned music (even great canned music) put out by soulless hydra headed music media monsters......Free too.
posted by troutfishing at 5:37 AM on October 28, 2002


The question is, how many people would go out and buy the CD before listening to a sample?

http://www.cdnow.com? Record shop listening posts? The TV or the radio?
Lets not pretend here. We all know that mp3 downloading is not about "try before you buy".

The ease of fileswapping has another effect. It's quite easy to do a scattersearch - download stuff because it sounds interesting, or it's on the hard drive of another user who has lots of tracks you like

Yes, it perhaps does have that effect but that's very much secondary, I think the primary effect is people downloading an album which they may or may not like x amount of songs on, burning it, keeping it and never paying for it.

If this kind of practice doesn't exist, as some people seem to be saying or indeed that even if it does it doesn't damage to the music industry,... why would they even care, much less spend millions on trying to copy protect the medium or stop p2p?

If you want to explore the music, go to a site that lists similar bands/influences and that kind of thing, then listen to some .ra samples.
posted by ed\26h at 6:19 AM on October 28, 2002


However much anti-RIAA spin this guy put on it and however bad or not their debating skills were, it's still theft.


You can't steal something that you already own.

The very copyright laws that the major media companies are fighting to extend recognizes that the public (me and you and everybody) owns all creative work. However, the thinking goes that some people may be reluctant to create or may be reluctant to share their creation, so copyright provides some limited rights for a limited amount of time as an incentive/encouragement. I don't believe that copyright is needed to facilitate creativity - or at least I don't think that what we give up is worth what we gain anymore. But, there's no way you can call it theft. We all already own it.

why would they even care, much less spend millions on trying to copy protect the medium or stop p2p?

Labels exist and make their money based on false scarcity. They're no longer relevant in the digital age. They could evolve into becoming the editors of the ballooning creativity that's ready to burst across us. We will need editors, and despite all the pap that they push, they are probably in the best position to serve that function (for a while - until collaborative filtering makes even that irrelevant), but they're more comfortable with the status quo, so they are lobbying for laws that will protect and entrench their dying business model.

It is no different than a buggy manufacture lobbying for laws against cars because they are too dangerous and too disruptive. It may be true, but thankfully, that's not the path we went down.
posted by willnot at 7:33 AM on October 28, 2002


Record shop listening posts?

yes, so you can hear all twelve of the CDs so thoughtfully chosen for you by the record store's marketing department.

We all know that mp3 downloading is not about "try before you buy".

Yes, we all know that; however, "try before you buy" is one part of it. The argument is that the "try before you buy" part helps the record labels more than the "never bother to buy" part hurts them. If the record labels would stop fighting off the whole music-sharing phenomenon, we would all benefit from free access to music and they would benefit from increased album sales. That's the theory, anyway; it seems pretty reasonable to me.
posted by Mars Saxman at 7:47 AM on October 28, 2002


Good to see I'm not the only one who finds a comparison between today's argument from the RIAA and how things were for the makers of buggies just a century ago. Henry Ford was probably seen by some as a Great Satan for making the horseless carriage so easy to come by. Ford's efforts and the efforts of his peers in the blooming new industry put out of work anyone from carriage builders to blacksmiths that shoed horses. Automobiles upset the world economy, causing instability at first but eventually bringing the world closer, thus improving the economy in ways that couldn't be dreamt of prior to 1900.

Rosen's like a coffee shop owner upset that she's being bookended by Starbucks, and being squeezed out. Sometimes progress is a bad thing. Sometimes history makes that determination.
posted by ZachsMind at 7:52 AM on October 28, 2002


« Older Rock art   |   Banning hip-hop. Newer »


This thread has been archived and is closed to new comments