September 2, 2000
9:00 AM Subscribe
Despite the claims from Nobel Prize winning scientists that fat people have better sex lives (via memepool), the thought of this woman scares the hell out of me.
Mostly because she is bitter about being fat and has an "in-your-face" attitude about it. She is a good actress though.
posted by tamim at 10:30 AM on September 2, 2000
posted by tamim at 10:30 AM on September 2, 2000
Don't think you are doing her any favours by saying "no fat chicks", because she probably has a policy about "no idiots".
posted by kristin at 11:09 AM on September 2, 2000
posted by kristin at 11:09 AM on September 2, 2000
There was only one scientist, and this is not his area of expertise. His opinion on the subject is worth no more than yours or mine.
posted by Steven Den Beste at 11:13 AM on September 2, 2000
posted by Steven Den Beste at 11:13 AM on September 2, 2000
So Manheim is "bitter about being _____ and has an in-your-face attitude about it." Take out the word "fat," and insert any adjective describing a minority segment of the population ... and suddenly you have a sentence useful for demonizing and marginalizing any person who "doesn't fit in" with the majority.
Should MeFi folk feel good about how (unless I'm misreading your sentence, which is possible) for you, her acting talent magically offsets her bitterness?
Manheim may be (figuratively, of course) too much woman for some, but this "scared" thing's worrisome. There's still time and the symptoms can be treated. It's never too late to stop feeling antipathy toward fellow human beings, even those you don't find sexually attractive!
posted by allaboutgeorge at 11:36 AM on September 2, 2000
Should MeFi folk feel good about how (unless I'm misreading your sentence, which is possible) for you, her acting talent magically offsets her bitterness?
Manheim may be (figuratively, of course) too much woman for some, but this "scared" thing's worrisome. There's still time and the symptoms can be treated. It's never too late to stop feeling antipathy toward fellow human beings, even those you don't find sexually attractive!
posted by allaboutgeorge at 11:36 AM on September 2, 2000
This is disturbing-- I clicked on "this" in "this woman scares" of the original post, which sent me to the amazon page of "Wake Up, I'm Fat!" Alright. But the next time I went to amazon, searching for Sviataslav Richter CD's, what shows up as a recommendation in the lefthand margin, but "FAT!SO?" Combine the implication here that they monitor every item you merely look at, not just buy, and their new (non)privacy policy... the patent business didn't bother me too much, but this might be enough to drive me to quit using amazon. That, plus they use frickin UPS too much, and don't ship from Seattle. Arrival used to take one day from delivery, now it's usually a week. Too long a comment.
posted by EngineBeak at 11:45 AM on September 2, 2000
posted by EngineBeak at 11:45 AM on September 2, 2000
Hey Tamim, if you're scared of a woman with a healthy sense of self esteem than you're the one with the problem. I'd have to call you pathetic.
posted by Mr. skullhead at 11:45 AM on September 2, 2000
posted by Mr. skullhead at 11:45 AM on September 2, 2000
Manheim may be (figuratively, of course) too much woman for some, but this "scared" thing's worrisome.
Would that be "fully figuratively"? Haw haw haw!
There was only one scientist, and this is not his area of expertise.
This is bull. There are plenty of good scientists who are able to go outside their original research area and make valuable contributions. And you have to assume that the journalism is as skewed and sketchy as usual for any 'provocative' scientific notion.
His opinion on the subject is worth no more than yours or mine.
This is real bull. He has been studying human biology his whole long life. He may not be right, but even so he is much more likely to be onto an idea that will later be elaborated, revised, etc. by others into a established fact (or whatever you want to call it) than we would be.
PS tamin is a misogynist! Haw haw!
posted by EngineBeak at 11:58 AM on September 2, 2000
Would that be "fully figuratively"? Haw haw haw!
There was only one scientist, and this is not his area of expertise.
This is bull. There are plenty of good scientists who are able to go outside their original research area and make valuable contributions. And you have to assume that the journalism is as skewed and sketchy as usual for any 'provocative' scientific notion.
His opinion on the subject is worth no more than yours or mine.
This is real bull. He has been studying human biology his whole long life. He may not be right, but even so he is much more likely to be onto an idea that will later be elaborated, revised, etc. by others into a established fact (or whatever you want to call it) than we would be.
PS tamin is a misogynist! Haw haw!
posted by EngineBeak at 11:58 AM on September 2, 2000
Okay, skallas, let me get this straight: You call her fat (excuse me, "overweight") and that's fine, no problem. She calls herself fat, and she's an unhealthy extremist coward lacking principle?
posted by sudama at 2:25 AM on September 3, 2000
posted by sudama at 2:25 AM on September 3, 2000
I like Camryn. Anyone who has that much confidence is sexy in my book. And her point is, look, I could starve myself and be miserable but thin, or eat what I want and be fat. She prefers not to police herself so closely.
I don't think she's bitter about being fat. I think she's angry at being treated like crap all her life. It's like me: I'm not angry that I'm gay, but I am sometimes pretty pissed off at what I have to deal with in the world. They're separate issues.
Anyone for creme brulee?
posted by jillmatrix at 8:21 PM on September 3, 2000
I don't think she's bitter about being fat. I think she's angry at being treated like crap all her life. It's like me: I'm not angry that I'm gay, but I am sometimes pretty pissed off at what I have to deal with in the world. They're separate issues.
Anyone for creme brulee?
posted by jillmatrix at 8:21 PM on September 3, 2000
If Camryn Manheim is bitter about being fat, I'm bitter about having brown eyes.
She's not bitter because she's fat, she's bitter because there are asses in this society who judge her to be a lesser human being or attempt to marginalise or wrongly categorise her merely because of it.
And if that isn't good reason for a talented, gifted, funny and generous person to be bitter, I don't know what is.
And if you're scared of Camryn, you should be downright, quaking in your boots horrified of me.
posted by Dreama at 1:31 AM on September 4, 2000
She's not bitter because she's fat, she's bitter because there are asses in this society who judge her to be a lesser human being or attempt to marginalise or wrongly categorise her merely because of it.
And if that isn't good reason for a talented, gifted, funny and generous person to be bitter, I don't know what is.
And if you're scared of Camryn, you should be downright, quaking in your boots horrified of me.
posted by Dreama at 1:31 AM on September 4, 2000
There seems to be a growing consensus that the category of "bitter fat woman" is a meaningless, destructive one. I wonder if we can reach a similar agreement about "angry black men"?
posted by sudama at 10:19 AM on September 4, 2000
posted by sudama at 10:19 AM on September 4, 2000
I'll pass on the Creme Brulee, Jill, but is "smooshed" really an adjective? ;-)
posted by baylink at 4:29 PM on September 4, 2000
posted by baylink at 4:29 PM on September 4, 2000
If Camryn scares the hell out of you, good. Why? Because she's finally taking the idea of a fat woman being a lonely, useless, lazy thing - not person - and throwing it out the window. Kicking it a few times, too.
Camryn is the most recent person I can think of who finally said that enough was enough. She's got a viable career, and doesn't apologize for her weight - which is the way it should be. Instead, America and Hollywood tell us that we're not good unless we're thin, people who are fat have no lives (or sex lives!), and there is just no possible way anyone overweight could dare be considered attractive.
Of course, this is the only "acceptable" form of bigotry in practice today. Every night on the news, during weight-related stories, fat peoples' heads are chopped off, and their bellies and butts are shown. Objects. Fat people are seen solely for their size. Objects. Fat people are judged on their appearance. Objects. In fact, the "people" part of the phrase often goes away, so we're really dealing with the fear of fat.
Is fat something to fear? By itself, no. It doesn't automatically make you unhealthy or deduct years from your life. It doesn't impede you from loving, living, or doing anything thin people do. Camryn is just doing this. She's living. Yet, people chastize her because she's living... and she's fat! How dare she!
And finally, I don't think she's bitter about her weight. She's proud of it, because it's her. It's called self-esteem and self-acceptance. If you think that you're better than someone because you weigh 100 and that other person is 350, frankly, you need to grow up.
posted by hijinx at 5:43 PM on September 4, 2000
Camryn is the most recent person I can think of who finally said that enough was enough. She's got a viable career, and doesn't apologize for her weight - which is the way it should be. Instead, America and Hollywood tell us that we're not good unless we're thin, people who are fat have no lives (or sex lives!), and there is just no possible way anyone overweight could dare be considered attractive.
Of course, this is the only "acceptable" form of bigotry in practice today. Every night on the news, during weight-related stories, fat peoples' heads are chopped off, and their bellies and butts are shown. Objects. Fat people are seen solely for their size. Objects. Fat people are judged on their appearance. Objects. In fact, the "people" part of the phrase often goes away, so we're really dealing with the fear of fat.
Is fat something to fear? By itself, no. It doesn't automatically make you unhealthy or deduct years from your life. It doesn't impede you from loving, living, or doing anything thin people do. Camryn is just doing this. She's living. Yet, people chastize her because she's living... and she's fat! How dare she!
And finally, I don't think she's bitter about her weight. She's proud of it, because it's her. It's called self-esteem and self-acceptance. If you think that you're better than someone because you weigh 100 and that other person is 350, frankly, you need to grow up.
posted by hijinx at 5:43 PM on September 4, 2000
The very first time I saw Camryn was in The Practice. It is one of my favorite shows. I did not really look at her as "fat" or anything else. It is a good show and she is a good actress. I was happy for her when she won an emmy. I laughed when she said, "this one is for all the fat girls," in her acceptance speech. It was funny. She deserved to win.
And then her whole "fat girl schtick" went overboard. Everywhere she went, Leno, Letterman, Rosie, Regis, it was the same ol' story. She is fat. She got turned down for dates. She is fat. She is fat. She is fat. And then she wrote a book, "Wake up : I am fat."
She is too obsessed with her looks.
When I went to think about this whole "fat girl" issue, I realized there are only two women I associate the phrase "fat girl" with. Camryn Manheim and the model Emme (on E! channel). Because these two women harp on you that they are fat. They vocally remind you of their girth.
I never think of Aretha Franklyn as "fat." Because she knows she is a diva and she does not care how she looks. Same goes for Starr Jones (The View). I never think of her as "fat." None of them dwell on their girth. None of them keep telling you that they might be over sized.
I don't think I am even scared of John Goodman or John Ratzenberger. They don't harp on the fact that they are over weight.
I am allowed to be scared of people. I am scared of people who go on like broken records about just one thing.
posted by tamim at 10:51 PM on September 5, 2000
And then her whole "fat girl schtick" went overboard. Everywhere she went, Leno, Letterman, Rosie, Regis, it was the same ol' story. She is fat. She got turned down for dates. She is fat. She is fat. She is fat. And then she wrote a book, "Wake up : I am fat."
She is too obsessed with her looks.
When I went to think about this whole "fat girl" issue, I realized there are only two women I associate the phrase "fat girl" with. Camryn Manheim and the model Emme (on E! channel). Because these two women harp on you that they are fat. They vocally remind you of their girth.
I never think of Aretha Franklyn as "fat." Because she knows she is a diva and she does not care how she looks. Same goes for Starr Jones (The View). I never think of her as "fat." None of them dwell on their girth. None of them keep telling you that they might be over sized.
I don't think I am even scared of John Goodman or John Ratzenberger. They don't harp on the fact that they are over weight.
I am allowed to be scared of people. I am scared of people who go on like broken records about just one thing.
posted by tamim at 10:51 PM on September 5, 2000
Instead of being afraid you ought to try listening to people sometimes. I think camryn's got some wisdom to share, and maybe a few other broken records do too.
posted by sudama at 12:25 AM on September 6, 2000
posted by sudama at 12:25 AM on September 6, 2000
There is a difference, though, besides just accepting your looks and being proud of them. I think that Camryn is on the proud end of that spectrum, while the other folks you mentioned might be closer to just accepting that they are fat.
The reason she was saying she was fat on the various talk shows, tamim, is because she was (gasp!) promoting her book. She's fat, yes. But as of today, is she on The Practice every week telling people she's fat? Is she on another whirlwind tour telling talk show hosts, "Hey, I'm fat!"? Nopers.
I wonder if people are really looking past peoples' fat, or just ignoring it altogether. That is, when they're not scared or hateful of it.
The bottom line is that your body should be celebrated and enjoyed, no matter what size it is. Camryn's doing it, and she's also using her celebrity to get her message out there. I like that.
posted by hijinx at 6:51 AM on September 6, 2000
The reason she was saying she was fat on the various talk shows, tamim, is because she was (gasp!) promoting her book. She's fat, yes. But as of today, is she on The Practice every week telling people she's fat? Is she on another whirlwind tour telling talk show hosts, "Hey, I'm fat!"? Nopers.
I wonder if people are really looking past peoples' fat, or just ignoring it altogether. That is, when they're not scared or hateful of it.
The bottom line is that your body should be celebrated and enjoyed, no matter what size it is. Camryn's doing it, and she's also using her celebrity to get her message out there. I like that.
posted by hijinx at 6:51 AM on September 6, 2000
Tamim, first off, apologies if my earlier tone offended you. But see, now you're making me think: your mentions of Aretha Franklin and Star Jones bring up race for me in an interesting way.
Because I think of Jones as a journalist and morning TV personality (for "The View"), I'll cop to viewing her differently from actress Manheim (although both are authors with books to sell). Franklin isn't fixed in my head as fat, prob'ly due to the influence of a black-and-white postcard in my collection of her back in the day in a leotard, singing (pre-Atlantic Records, maybe?).
I'll crawl gingerly out on a limb and posit that African Americans and other ethnic groups have different relationships with and perceptions about women's bodies (despite their susceptibility to negative normative values from the larger culture).
I've never heard Jones or Franklin dwell on their size, and I think that may be related to their roots/centering in different body image norms and how they are perceived by/participate in the larger culture.
Now, Goodman and Ratzenberger (as well as John Belushi, John Candy and Al Roker) are another issue entirely, leaving out the issue of their sex appeal, self-esteem issues and authorship. Anybody want a piece of that?
posted by allaboutgeorge at 7:27 PM on September 7, 2000
Because I think of Jones as a journalist and morning TV personality (for "The View"), I'll cop to viewing her differently from actress Manheim (although both are authors with books to sell). Franklin isn't fixed in my head as fat, prob'ly due to the influence of a black-and-white postcard in my collection of her back in the day in a leotard, singing (pre-Atlantic Records, maybe?).
I'll crawl gingerly out on a limb and posit that African Americans and other ethnic groups have different relationships with and perceptions about women's bodies (despite their susceptibility to negative normative values from the larger culture).
I've never heard Jones or Franklin dwell on their size, and I think that may be related to their roots/centering in different body image norms and how they are perceived by/participate in the larger culture.
Now, Goodman and Ratzenberger (as well as John Belushi, John Candy and Al Roker) are another issue entirely, leaving out the issue of their sex appeal, self-esteem issues and authorship. Anybody want a piece of that?
posted by allaboutgeorge at 7:27 PM on September 7, 2000
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posted by jbelshaw at 10:22 AM on September 2, 2000