Ayatollah Sistani survives assassination attempt
February 5, 2004 11:18 AM Subscribe
Najaf, Iraq - Iraq's most powerful Shiite cleric, Ayatollah Ali Sistani, survived an assassination attempt Thursday when gunmen opened fire on his entourage, a security official in his office said...
Of related interest from Juan Cole: Reformers implore Sistani to Intervene in Iran Crisis Ali Nourizadeh of the Saudi newspaper ash-Sharq al-Awsat reports today that more than 400 Iranian writers and cultural figures, along with some members of parliament, have penned a letter to Grand Ayatollah Ali Sistani of Najaf, requesting that he express his opinion on the "massacre of democracy and the transformation of parliamentary elections into a mere stage play."
See also The Shiite Surge for further background. We are living in interesting times.
Of related interest from Juan Cole: Reformers implore Sistani to Intervene in Iran Crisis Ali Nourizadeh of the Saudi newspaper ash-Sharq al-Awsat reports today that more than 400 Iranian writers and cultural figures, along with some members of parliament, have penned a letter to Grand Ayatollah Ali Sistani of Najaf, requesting that he express his opinion on the "massacre of democracy and the transformation of parliamentary elections into a mere stage play."
See also The Shiite Surge for further background. We are living in interesting times.
jon_kill - I strongly disagree. This is very significant. (thanks, Karl)
It is also awful news - for Iraq, the Bush Administration, and - indeed - for us all. Let's pray that all hell doesn't break loose.
If that happened, well....... an Iraqi civil war might be good for the US Democratic Party's '04 campaign , but goddamn - I don't even want to think about the price.
posted by troutfishing at 11:55 AM on February 5, 2004
It is also awful news - for Iraq, the Bush Administration, and - indeed - for us all. Let's pray that all hell doesn't break loose.
If that happened, well....... an Iraqi civil war might be good for the US Democratic Party's '04 campaign , but goddamn - I don't even want to think about the price.
posted by troutfishing at 11:55 AM on February 5, 2004
Troutfishing is backing up y2karl on his FPP.
That's a bit like Madonna backing up Janet's right to show her boobie on television.
posted by Seth at 12:04 PM on February 5, 2004
That's a bit like Madonna backing up Janet's right to show her boobie on television.
posted by Seth at 12:04 PM on February 5, 2004
This post in Slate the other day made me think, Hmm. I wonder when somebody's going to try to assassinate him.
posted by coelecanth at 12:23 PM on February 5, 2004
posted by coelecanth at 12:23 PM on February 5, 2004
grab your socks and pick your locks because
this is a good piece karl.
"We want free elections and not appointments," he said.
In January, both US top administrator in Iraq Paul Bremer and the IGC rejected the ayatollah's demands.
I believe the last free elections held in the middle east (save those that have them already) was Algeria. When it appeared the fundamentalists where going to gain power in these free elections, the army was called in to end that little adventure into free elections.
The ayatollah represents the conservative and Persian-born mainstream of Iraqi Shias. One of the radical Sadr Group's rallying calls is that they want an Iraqi Arab marja.
i believe the key is Persian born. Many fear that he may be a pawn for Iran (which is a little iffy....wait... Reformers implore Sistani to Intervene in Iran Crisis )
perhaps he should have been less political.
Ayatollah Sistani - who believes in the separation of religion and state - rarely made political statements.
Hmmm.
I wonder when somebody's going to try to assassinate him.
In April, just after the fall of the regime, club-wielding members of the Sadr Group besieged Ayatollah Sistani's house, demanding that he leave the country and that he recognize Moqtada Sadr as a marja.
The ayatollah went into hiding but stayed in Iraq.
The power struggle did turn bloody though. Days after returning from his exile in London, Abdul Majid al-Khoei, the son of a grand ayatollah from the 1980s, was stabbed to death in the shrine of Najaf. He had claimed to speak for Ayatollah Sistani.
There may have been other attempts, perhaps saddam tried.
posted by clavdivs at 12:44 PM on February 5, 2004
this is a good piece karl.
"We want free elections and not appointments," he said.
In January, both US top administrator in Iraq Paul Bremer and the IGC rejected the ayatollah's demands.
I believe the last free elections held in the middle east (save those that have them already) was Algeria. When it appeared the fundamentalists where going to gain power in these free elections, the army was called in to end that little adventure into free elections.
The ayatollah represents the conservative and Persian-born mainstream of Iraqi Shias. One of the radical Sadr Group's rallying calls is that they want an Iraqi Arab marja.
i believe the key is Persian born. Many fear that he may be a pawn for Iran (which is a little iffy....wait... Reformers implore Sistani to Intervene in Iran Crisis )
perhaps he should have been less political.
Ayatollah Sistani - who believes in the separation of religion and state - rarely made political statements.
Hmmm.
I wonder when somebody's going to try to assassinate him.
In April, just after the fall of the regime, club-wielding members of the Sadr Group besieged Ayatollah Sistani's house, demanding that he leave the country and that he recognize Moqtada Sadr as a marja.
The ayatollah went into hiding but stayed in Iraq.
The power struggle did turn bloody though. Days after returning from his exile in London, Abdul Majid al-Khoei, the son of a grand ayatollah from the 1980s, was stabbed to death in the shrine of Najaf. He had claimed to speak for Ayatollah Sistani.
There may have been other attempts, perhaps saddam tried.
posted by clavdivs at 12:44 PM on February 5, 2004
Maybe it was a result of the ringing endorsement he got two days ago from us infidels.
posted by turbanhead at 1:05 PM on February 5, 2004
posted by turbanhead at 1:05 PM on February 5, 2004
CIA warns of Iraq civil war
Troutfishing is backing up y2karl on his FPP. That's a bit like Madonna backing up Janet's right to show her boobie on television.
posted by Seth at 12:04 PM PST on February 5
Ah, Seth is whining about another post in which, as usual, he adds nothing of substance, cannot rebut the concerns expressed, and fails to show why the topic is unworthy.
So...since you brought up the analogy and all, Seth....it really seems that you're actually the unexpected boobie in this little game, eh?
~wink~
posted by fold_and_mutilate at 1:22 PM on February 5, 2004
Troutfishing is backing up y2karl on his FPP. That's a bit like Madonna backing up Janet's right to show her boobie on television.
posted by Seth at 12:04 PM PST on February 5
Ah, Seth is whining about another post in which, as usual, he adds nothing of substance, cannot rebut the concerns expressed, and fails to show why the topic is unworthy.
So...since you brought up the analogy and all, Seth....it really seems that you're actually the unexpected boobie in this little game, eh?
~wink~
posted by fold_and_mutilate at 1:22 PM on February 5, 2004
as usual, he adds nothing of substance
How hard is it for you to comprehend that I don't add anything because (a) I don't think it is an appropriate subject, (b) if I wanted to talk about it, I'd go to Iraqfilter, (c) I am bored to death with your constant ax-grinding (despite that I agree with some points), and (d) I really don't give a shit.
See, unlike you, I can actually read and respect the rules. Do you just completely ignore the rejoinder on the post page asking politely for you to not post this crap here? Surely it's not because you are illiterate, so maybe you just don't see it.
fails to show why the topic is unworthy
http://www.metafilter.com/contribute/post_good.mefi?pid=116
posted by Seth at 1:40 PM on February 5, 2004
How hard is it for you to comprehend that I don't add anything because (a) I don't think it is an appropriate subject, (b) if I wanted to talk about it, I'd go to Iraqfilter, (c) I am bored to death with your constant ax-grinding (despite that I agree with some points), and (d) I really don't give a shit.
See, unlike you, I can actually read and respect the rules. Do you just completely ignore the rejoinder on the post page asking politely for you to not post this crap here? Surely it's not because you are illiterate, so maybe you just don't see it.
fails to show why the topic is unworthy
http://www.metafilter.com/contribute/post_good.mefi?pid=116
posted by Seth at 1:40 PM on February 5, 2004
Consider the front page post an invitation to a dinner party. The proper response, if you don't want to attend, is not to crash the party as a boorish lout, but rather to politely decline and move on. Find another party, or heck, throw your own.
(a) I don't think it is an appropriate subject
Fair enough, but that didn't stop you from squatting to take a steaming dump in y2karl's little dinner party, did it?
(b) if I wanted to talk about it, I'd go to Iraqfilter
You mean the one that's been defunct since the end of last year?
(c) I am bored to death with your constant ax-grinding (despite that I agree with some points), and (d) I really don't give a shit.
Again, if you're so "bored to death" and you "don't give a shit," then why must you continue to fuck with the people who aren't bored, and do, in fact, give a shit?
I point out, yet again, that you have not posted a single thing to the front page, and yet continue to bag on those of us who do. As y6y6y6 pointed out in the recent MeTa thread, and as experience shows, your constant bitching is not going to prevent y2karl and others from posting about the war. Instead, your only hope, if you do indeed wish to see change, rather than simply distract yourself by engaging in mindnumbingly adolescent self-wankery comparing y2karl and troutfishing to Janet's boob, do it yourself. Dilute the Iraq posts with the kind of posts you would like to see. Set an example.
y2karl and others: Apologies for responding in thread, but I really didn't want to start another MeTa thread about this. I hope you can now return to whatever discussion might be salvaged on topic.
posted by monju_bosatsu at 1:57 PM on February 5, 2004
(a) I don't think it is an appropriate subject
Fair enough, but that didn't stop you from squatting to take a steaming dump in y2karl's little dinner party, did it?
(b) if I wanted to talk about it, I'd go to Iraqfilter
You mean the one that's been defunct since the end of last year?
(c) I am bored to death with your constant ax-grinding (despite that I agree with some points), and (d) I really don't give a shit.
Again, if you're so "bored to death" and you "don't give a shit," then why must you continue to fuck with the people who aren't bored, and do, in fact, give a shit?
I point out, yet again, that you have not posted a single thing to the front page, and yet continue to bag on those of us who do. As y6y6y6 pointed out in the recent MeTa thread, and as experience shows, your constant bitching is not going to prevent y2karl and others from posting about the war. Instead, your only hope, if you do indeed wish to see change, rather than simply distract yourself by engaging in mindnumbingly adolescent self-wankery comparing y2karl and troutfishing to Janet's boob, do it yourself. Dilute the Iraq posts with the kind of posts you would like to see. Set an example.
y2karl and others: Apologies for responding in thread, but I really didn't want to start another MeTa thread about this. I hope you can now return to whatever discussion might be salvaged on topic.
posted by monju_bosatsu at 1:57 PM on February 5, 2004
Seth has posted no links 54 pissy whines to MetaFilter
posted by Armitage Shanks at 2:05 PM on February 5, 2004
posted by Armitage Shanks at 2:05 PM on February 5, 2004
Monju_bosatsu:
Totally head on the nail.
I understand the impulse to not let Metafilter become Iraqfilter, but, come on, there's a war on people. It's important, no matter what side of the political aisle you reside in.
The magnitude of what is going on with the war and how it relates to everything else cannot be overstated. This is real, and it matters. Discussing real events actually matters as well. Or should.
If someone has an objection to this post, a reason would be nice. Don't like the discussion? Don't engage in the discussion.
On topic:
I hope Sistani supports the reformers in Iran. He'll be pooping in everyone's wheaties then.
posted by geekhorde at 2:26 PM on February 5, 2004
Totally head on the nail.
I understand the impulse to not let Metafilter become Iraqfilter, but, come on, there's a war on people. It's important, no matter what side of the political aisle you reside in.
The magnitude of what is going on with the war and how it relates to everything else cannot be overstated. This is real, and it matters. Discussing real events actually matters as well. Or should.
If someone has an objection to this post, a reason would be nice. Don't like the discussion? Don't engage in the discussion.
On topic:
I hope Sistani supports the reformers in Iran. He'll be pooping in everyone's wheaties then.
posted by geekhorde at 2:26 PM on February 5, 2004
Terrible FPP
ummm... how?
if sistani was now taking a dirtnap - we'd be in a real world of hurt in iraq.
important story karl. thanks.
posted by specialk420 at 3:21 PM on February 5, 2004
ummm... how?
if sistani was now taking a dirtnap - we'd be in a real world of hurt in iraq.
important story karl. thanks.
posted by specialk420 at 3:21 PM on February 5, 2004
And to continue the thought - If Sistani was now taking a dirtnap, there's a good chance that :
1) US troops would be caught trying to keep the peace in a bona fide civil war - and taking casualties 10X worse at least than anything seen so far in Iraq, or.....
2) There would be a messy pullout, with casualties, and the US would leave Iraq to turn into a giant catastrophe - and a cauldron from which all sorts of demons would spring.
[ Meanwhile, speaking of rules and etiquette - Seth, don't your complaints belong on Metatalk ? ]
posted by troutfishing at 4:12 PM on February 5, 2004
1) US troops would be caught trying to keep the peace in a bona fide civil war - and taking casualties 10X worse at least than anything seen so far in Iraq, or.....
2) There would be a messy pullout, with casualties, and the US would leave Iraq to turn into a giant catastrophe - and a cauldron from which all sorts of demons would spring.
[ Meanwhile, speaking of rules and etiquette - Seth, don't your complaints belong on Metatalk ? ]
posted by troutfishing at 4:12 PM on February 5, 2004
Well, I don't know, I don't post any FFPs and all I do is comment. I don't think that necessarily revokes my right to critique content. (You might even say that I'm editing myself beforehand and nothing I have can meet my own rigorous standards. But that might be stretching it.)
Anyway, I did find the post good, but that's me. Thanks.
posted by Lord Chancellor at 4:51 PM on February 5, 2004
Anyway, I did find the post good, but that's me. Thanks.
posted by Lord Chancellor at 4:51 PM on February 5, 2004
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Terrible FPP
posted by jon_kill at 11:34 AM on February 5, 2004