I am not a terrorist. I couldn't be one. I am a musician.
February 8, 2004 10:20 AM Subscribe
An elderly enemy combatant of the state has been denied entry into the United States for our safety and the republic is strong thanks to the decision. Who was it you ask? 77 year old Ibrahim Ferrer and five bandmates nominated for Grammies won't be allowed in the US today. Avowed communist Ferrer (lead member of the terrorist group "Buena Vista Social Club") said "I am not a terrorist. I couldn't be one. I am a musician." but don't believe him, he's a communist after all and a damn good one at that. Red Dawn!
President Bush has strengthened the country's policy against Cuba and cut back on cultural exchanges.
Damn. Squash culture here, and you can't even import it? What's next?
But really, Ibrahim should know better than to try to come during an election year. Doesn't he know it taints all decisions made for the next 9 months? yeesh.
posted by Busithoth at 10:31 AM on February 8, 2004
Damn. Squash culture here, and you can't even import it? What's next?
But really, Ibrahim should know better than to try to come during an election year. Doesn't he know it taints all decisions made for the next 9 months? yeesh.
posted by Busithoth at 10:31 AM on February 8, 2004
he's just an honest man, from where the palm tree grows.
posted by kliuless at 10:51 AM on February 8, 2004
posted by kliuless at 10:51 AM on February 8, 2004
Meanwhile, the Bush family have a history of aiding, abetting, and associating with known terrorists. (more on this, and more and more - "George W. Bush named Otto Reich as his assistant secretary of state for Western hemisphere affairs--despite Reich’s longstanding ties to anti-Castro terrorist Orlando Bosch")
Here is a Orlando Bosch’s terrorist curriculum vitae
- one of the most extensive terrorist resumes in the 20th Century. Something on the order of 100 separate terrorist bombings, and murders have been attributed to Bosch - including planting the bomb that blew up a Cuban airliner in 1976.
By George W. Bush's definition of terrorism, there are, in fact, terrorists within his own family !
posted by troutfishing at 11:09 AM on February 8, 2004
Here is a Orlando Bosch’s terrorist curriculum vitae
- one of the most extensive terrorist resumes in the 20th Century. Something on the order of 100 separate terrorist bombings, and murders have been attributed to Bosch - including planting the bomb that blew up a Cuban airliner in 1976.
By George W. Bush's definition of terrorism, there are, in fact, terrorists within his own family !
posted by troutfishing at 11:09 AM on February 8, 2004
The grammy awards should be hosted somewhere else. maybe even in Cuba. ;)
posted by dabitch at 11:21 AM on February 8, 2004
posted by dabitch at 11:21 AM on February 8, 2004
The saddest thing about this story is that more people are interested in the fact that Janet Jackson got banned from the Grammies...
posted by wendell at 11:32 AM on February 8, 2004
posted by wendell at 11:32 AM on February 8, 2004
I officially apologize for bringing up Janet Jackson.
posted by wendell at 11:33 AM on February 8, 2004
posted by wendell at 11:33 AM on February 8, 2004
Jeeeeeesus. Somebody remind me why we hate Cuba so much again? (Yes, I'm aware that they commit tremendous human rights abuses; but China seems to be as bad or worse, and I could hop a flight there tomorrow.) It's a good thing our vigorous containment policy has kept Fidel Castro from staying in power for over forty years... COUGHCOUGHCOUGH damn, I've got something stuck in my throat.
posted by logovisual at 11:48 AM on February 8, 2004
posted by logovisual at 11:48 AM on February 8, 2004
Pobre Cuba, tan lejos de dios y tan cerca de estados unidos.
posted by signal at 12:09 PM on February 8, 2004
posted by signal at 12:09 PM on February 8, 2004
Nobody used the word "terrorist" except the guy himself.
His presence is: "detrimental to the interest of the United States".
Last I checked, commie Cubans are a detriment to the United States. Try to convince Castro otherwise.
Any communist is a detriment to the United States, but we certainly have no business giving visas to foreign ones of any stripe.
posted by hama7 at 12:13 PM on February 8, 2004
His presence is: "detrimental to the interest of the United States".
Last I checked, commie Cubans are a detriment to the United States. Try to convince Castro otherwise.
Any communist is a detriment to the United States, but we certainly have no business giving visas to foreign ones of any stripe.
posted by hama7 at 12:13 PM on February 8, 2004
Hama, calling that guy a "communist detrimental to the United States" is laughable at best and just plain stupid at worst. It's just as silly as said commie calling you a capitalistic pig bent on global imperialism.
Come on, your thought process isn't really that simple is it?
posted by photoslob at 12:30 PM on February 8, 2004
Come on, your thought process isn't really that simple is it?
posted by photoslob at 12:30 PM on February 8, 2004
Oh, christ, hama7. I'll bite. How exactly is "any communist" a detriment to the United States?
No doubt you and yours are ready to deport those who came up with Medicare, Social Security, Head Start, taxes, unions....and probably the dirty pinko who puts those little prizes in boxes of Cracker Jack.
But you're really in a sad minority.
Kerry's right. It's your kind of extremism that really makes conservatives look so bad.
posted by fold_and_mutilate at 12:42 PM on February 8, 2004
No doubt you and yours are ready to deport those who came up with Medicare, Social Security, Head Start, taxes, unions....and probably the dirty pinko who puts those little prizes in boxes of Cracker Jack.
But you're really in a sad minority.
Kerry's right. It's your kind of extremism that really makes conservatives look so bad.
posted by fold_and_mutilate at 12:42 PM on February 8, 2004
Olvídalo photoslob, fold_and_mutilate, Hama7 es un TROLL (en cualquier idioma) y no merece la pena...
Tan lejos de Dios, tan cerca de Estados Unidos.
Bien dicho, hermano, bien dicho.
posted by sic at 12:46 PM on February 8, 2004
Tan lejos de Dios, tan cerca de Estados Unidos.
Bien dicho, hermano, bien dicho.
posted by sic at 12:46 PM on February 8, 2004
embrace capitalism papi!
posted by billybobtoo at 1:24 PM on February 8, 2004
posted by billybobtoo at 1:24 PM on February 8, 2004
hama7, we in Red Canada giggle at your tiny, tiny ilk.
posted by stonerose at 2:01 PM on February 8, 2004
posted by stonerose at 2:01 PM on February 8, 2004
is ry cooder a fellow traveler?
As it happens, Ry Cooder's parents were leftist radicals who introduced him to Woody Guthrie as a kid, so hama7 may want him kicked out of the US too.
posted by liam at 2:04 PM on February 8, 2004
As it happens, Ry Cooder's parents were leftist radicals who introduced him to Woody Guthrie as a kid, so hama7 may want him kicked out of the US too.
posted by liam at 2:04 PM on February 8, 2004
I like to think hama7 is a DNC-modified aibo-type robot, inactive until a threshold of MeFi keywords is sensed. He/it is programmed to then generate nonsensical gibberings, all designed, in their inanity, to further lefty causes and sympathy.
Works like a charm - The only flaw in my theory is the frequently excellent posts of the non-politic persuasion that seem to squeak through the algorithms. Must be a missed remnant of the original Sony programming.
posted by jalexei at 2:10 PM on February 8, 2004
Works like a charm - The only flaw in my theory is the frequently excellent posts of the non-politic persuasion that seem to squeak through the algorithms. Must be a missed remnant of the original Sony programming.
posted by jalexei at 2:10 PM on February 8, 2004
The presence of Ibrahim Ferrer at the Grammys would have signified the USA's respect for individual freedom, even for those condemned by accident of birth to reside in a nation with which the US government is currently at odds. That a septuagenarian Ibrahim Ferrer has been barred from this country as a "security threat" is a depressing commentary on the true state of America's liberties.
Through the good offices of Ry Cooder and the open society, Ferrer was rescued from socialist obscurity and given a chance to again share his incomparable voice wirth the world. His present place in the pantheon of world music is a testament to the economic opportunities available in a free society.
Ibrahim is an equal opportunity, international capitalist success story. It is ironic that he, of all people, should be barred from receiving the accolades of the music industry by the defenders of Free Trade Everywhere.
posted by rdone at 2:13 PM on February 8, 2004
Through the good offices of Ry Cooder and the open society, Ferrer was rescued from socialist obscurity and given a chance to again share his incomparable voice wirth the world. His present place in the pantheon of world music is a testament to the economic opportunities available in a free society.
Ibrahim is an equal opportunity, international capitalist success story. It is ironic that he, of all people, should be barred from receiving the accolades of the music industry by the defenders of Free Trade Everywhere.
posted by rdone at 2:13 PM on February 8, 2004
We've simply got to stop giving Grammys to terrorists -- it sends the wrong message.
But seriously, the silver lining here is that these guys are Grammy nominees -- in other words, everyone who watches the Grammys (and I understand it's a popular program) is going to hear about this piece of idiocy. That's some serious publicity.
posted by uosuaq at 2:32 PM on February 8, 2004
But seriously, the silver lining here is that these guys are Grammy nominees -- in other words, everyone who watches the Grammys (and I understand it's a popular program) is going to hear about this piece of idiocy. That's some serious publicity.
posted by uosuaq at 2:32 PM on February 8, 2004
rdone: indeed it is ironic, but this seems to be ironic and economically relevant at the same time (it's the U.S. steel tariffs vs WTO issue). Too bad for Ibrahim, but I guess he doesn't really _need_ to come to the States : it would suffice, I guess, for Grammy's host presenters to say why he was awarded what and why isn't he in U.S. to receive the prize.
Doubt that it will happen.
posted by elpapacito at 2:35 PM on February 8, 2004
Doubt that it will happen.
posted by elpapacito at 2:35 PM on February 8, 2004
Setting aside hama7's communism rant, the point he initially made is correct -- the visas were not denied because of suspected terrorism. The visas were denied because visas are regularly denied for Cubans. They were regularly denied before 9/11, and will be regularly denied in the future. A few years ago when the Baltimore Orioles played the Cuban All-Star team, the club had to go through tremendous red tape just to get permission for the Cubans to play a game in the U.S.
In other words, nobody brought terrorism into this equation but Ferrer himself (whom I happen to respect greatly, btw -- the BVSC movie soundtrack is one of my favorite CDs). Just thought it was worth making that clear.
posted by pardonyou? at 2:47 PM on February 8, 2004
In other words, nobody brought terrorism into this equation but Ferrer himself (whom I happen to respect greatly, btw -- the BVSC movie soundtrack is one of my favorite CDs). Just thought it was worth making that clear.
posted by pardonyou? at 2:47 PM on February 8, 2004
for the reason you describe, uosuaq, I really hope they win a massive bunch of grammy awards... Just to watch the show host explain their absence.
posted by dabitch at 2:57 PM on February 8, 2004
posted by dabitch at 2:57 PM on February 8, 2004
The visas were denied because visas are regularly denied for Cubans.
Another Cuban nominee, jazz pianist Chucho Valdes, was granted a visa. I tell you it's the bolero they fear. That music is spreading communism through coffee shops nationwide.
posted by liam at 3:03 PM on February 8, 2004
Another Cuban nominee, jazz pianist Chucho Valdes, was granted a visa. I tell you it's the bolero they fear. That music is spreading communism through coffee shops nationwide.
posted by liam at 3:03 PM on February 8, 2004
Well, as seen in the movie, Ferrer has been granted a US visa before (if you haven't seen it, the film's climax shows the BVSC playing Carnegie Hall.) And Jason over at Queso mentions that he saw Ferrer at the Beacon in November 2001, so it looks like the government wasn't worried about him being responsible for 9/11. Go figure.
(Myself, I figure Bush has confused even himself with his rhetoric and is worried that Ferrer will try to convert other Grammy nominees to Communism...y'know, just the way that gay people like to recruit straight ones.)
posted by Vidiot at 5:27 PM on February 8, 2004
(Myself, I figure Bush has confused even himself with his rhetoric and is worried that Ferrer will try to convert other Grammy nominees to Communism...y'know, just the way that gay people like to recruit straight ones.)
posted by Vidiot at 5:27 PM on February 8, 2004
I think Ferrer's big mistake in that movie came when they were standing on the observation deck of the world trade center and he said "man, I'd really like to crash an airplane into this thing."
He's a dangerous man in the dangerous part of the world...everyone knows he's been engaging in habanero-related program activities. Think of the children!
posted by uosuaq at 5:35 PM on February 8, 2004
He's a dangerous man in the dangerous part of the world...everyone knows he's been engaging in habanero-related program activities. Think of the children!
posted by uosuaq at 5:35 PM on February 8, 2004
I can never decide if certain of our membership are persistent trolls or just simpletons with massive old collections of Yahoo! Internet Life stacked in their closets.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 7:30 PM on February 8, 2004
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 7:30 PM on February 8, 2004
No doubt you and yours are ready to deport those who came up with Medicare, Social Security, Head Start, taxes, unions....and probably the dirty pinko who puts those little prizes in boxes of Cracker Jack.
Taxpayer funded social(ist) programs are a sand-pounding, resounding and repeated failure everywhere they have been attempted, not to mention that they are immorality manifest. As for deportation; the disciples of socialist quasi-religious groupthink might find a better reality in a country not founded on the principles of individual accomplishment and independence. I think you get my drift.
Be that as it may, this has nothing whatever to do with the issue of granting a visa to an avowed ratfink commie slimeball from a regime that is hostile to the United States.
Much as you'd like to imagine otherwise, of course.
posted by hama7 at 7:37 PM on February 8, 2004
Taxpayer funded social(ist) programs are a sand-pounding, resounding and repeated failure everywhere they have been attempted, not to mention that they are immorality manifest. As for deportation; the disciples of socialist quasi-religious groupthink might find a better reality in a country not founded on the principles of individual accomplishment and independence. I think you get my drift.
Be that as it may, this has nothing whatever to do with the issue of granting a visa to an avowed ratfink commie slimeball from a regime that is hostile to the United States.
Much as you'd like to imagine otherwise, of course.
posted by hama7 at 7:37 PM on February 8, 2004
Or, you know, both.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 7:39 PM on February 8, 2004
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 7:39 PM on February 8, 2004
Oh. My. Fucking. God.
Did he really honestly say "ratfink commie slimeball" with a straight face? Really?
posted by ook at 8:00 PM on February 8, 2004
Did he really honestly say "ratfink commie slimeball" with a straight face? Really?
posted by ook at 8:00 PM on February 8, 2004
Somebody remind me why we hate Cuba so much again?
Two hints: Cuban immigrants and 25 electoral votes.
posted by pmurray63 at 8:08 PM on February 8, 2004
Two hints: Cuban immigrants and 25 electoral votes.
posted by pmurray63 at 8:08 PM on February 8, 2004
Be that as it may, this has nothing whatever to do with the issue of granting a visa to an avowed ratfink commie slimeball from a regime that is hostile to the United States.
what year is it again?
posted by mcsweetie at 8:17 PM on February 8, 2004
what year is it again?
posted by mcsweetie at 8:17 PM on February 8, 2004
"It's important for people to understand the context in which I
made a decision here in the Oval Office. I'm dealing with a
world in which we have gotten struck by terrorists with
airplanes, and we get intelligence saying that there is, you
know, we want to harm America. " - DuhByuh, 2/8/04
well, my goodness, in a world in which we have gotten struck by terrorists with airplanes, i say, string the elderly commie bastard up.
posted by quonsar at 9:17 PM on February 8, 2004
made a decision here in the Oval Office. I'm dealing with a
world in which we have gotten struck by terrorists with
airplanes, and we get intelligence saying that there is, you
know, we want to harm America. " - DuhByuh, 2/8/04
well, my goodness, in a world in which we have gotten struck by terrorists with airplanes, i say, string the elderly commie bastard up.
posted by quonsar at 9:17 PM on February 8, 2004
The Grammies: No Tits. No Reds. Guaranteed.TM
And no Dishonest Dubya Lying Action Figure either.
posted by y2karl at 9:39 PM on February 8, 2004
And no Dishonest Dubya Lying Action Figure either.
posted by y2karl at 9:39 PM on February 8, 2004
I guess GW's calculations don't include right-wing Cuban American terrorists like Orlando Bosch and company.
Anyway, I got struck by a terrorist with an airplane last week. I was sitting on the couch typing on my laptop, and my nephew snuck up behind me and whacked me in the head with a plastic Boeing 727. Christ, it hurt. Terrorists start young.
"We get intelligence saying.........we want to harm America." - Those intelligence analysts pegged the Bush Administration to a tee, by golly.
posted by troutfishing at 10:06 PM on February 8, 2004
Anyway, I got struck by a terrorist with an airplane last week. I was sitting on the couch typing on my laptop, and my nephew snuck up behind me and whacked me in the head with a plastic Boeing 727. Christ, it hurt. Terrorists start young.
"We get intelligence saying.........we want to harm America." - Those intelligence analysts pegged the Bush Administration to a tee, by golly.
posted by troutfishing at 10:06 PM on February 8, 2004
Taxpayer funded social(ist) programs are a sand-pounding, resounding and repeated failure everywhere they have been attempted, not to mention that they are immorality manifest.
~blink~
Really? I'm shocked that the Department of Defense, a taxpayer funded program designed to provide for the common good, would ever be described on dear old MetaFilter as "avowed ratfink commie slimeballs".
Sounds kinda....you know....traitorous.
Maybe we oughta just get rid of the DOD...or turn its operation over to Halliburton. I mean, that's what the right always wants to do with Medicare and other programs, right?
'Course, when it comes right down to it, there *is* a difference between the DOD providing constant new lining for the pockets of defense contractors through thousand dollar toilet seats and missile defense "shields" utterly ineffective against boxcutter wielding shitheads... and an occasionally unwieldy "social program" (Medicare) designed to provide medicine for sick humans.
Now, once again, which was the outrage of you and yours reserved for? Why? Please tell me it ain't just that simpleminded, self-serving "greed" thingie again, will ya?
~wink~
posted by fold_and_mutilate at 12:28 AM on February 9, 2004
~blink~
Really? I'm shocked that the Department of Defense, a taxpayer funded program designed to provide for the common good, would ever be described on dear old MetaFilter as "avowed ratfink commie slimeballs".
Sounds kinda....you know....traitorous.
Maybe we oughta just get rid of the DOD...or turn its operation over to Halliburton. I mean, that's what the right always wants to do with Medicare and other programs, right?
'Course, when it comes right down to it, there *is* a difference between the DOD providing constant new lining for the pockets of defense contractors through thousand dollar toilet seats and missile defense "shields" utterly ineffective against boxcutter wielding shitheads... and an occasionally unwieldy "social program" (Medicare) designed to provide medicine for sick humans.
Now, once again, which was the outrage of you and yours reserved for? Why? Please tell me it ain't just that simpleminded, self-serving "greed" thingie again, will ya?
~wink~
posted by fold_and_mutilate at 12:28 AM on February 9, 2004
hama7, would you like to show me where in the US constitution communism is outlawed?
Guess what? It isn't. The US could be communist tomorrow and there's not a damn thing you, nor the supreme court, nor the president can do about it.
posted by shepd at 1:32 AM on February 9, 2004
Guess what? It isn't. The US could be communist tomorrow and there's not a damn thing you, nor the supreme court, nor the president can do about it.
posted by shepd at 1:32 AM on February 9, 2004
To the barricades, comrades!
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 1:43 AM on February 9, 2004
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 1:43 AM on February 9, 2004
Ferrer is evil. He only wants to come here to fondle underage capitalists.
posted by Opus Dark at 3:32 AM on February 9, 2004
posted by Opus Dark at 3:32 AM on February 9, 2004
Now, once again, which was the outrage of you and yours reserved for?
Since you might have otherwise overlooked it, perhaps you'd like to browse the brief yet concise preamble to the Constitution of the United States, which is an introduction to the responsibilities and limits of government. To "provide for the common defense" is indeed one of the few duties that the U.S. government is constitutionally required to perform. Sorry.
hama7, would you like to show me where in the US constitution communism is outlawed?
Any social system which seeks to overthrow the United States government and replace it with another is an enemy system: "the political activity of international communism or any totalitarian doctrine is incompatible with the concept of American freedom, which rests upon two undeniable postulates; the dignity of man as an individual and the sovereignty of the nation as a state".
This Buena Vista Bolshevik band member, though ignorant, misguided, and immoral as all red socialists inevitably are, is not half as dangerous as soft-focusing communism in all its historical blood-soaked, mass-graved, gulag carnage and murderous horror. Does 100 million dead not speak for itself?
"The toll defies imagining. 1.7 million dead in Cambodia. 25 million in the Soviet Union. 65 million in China."
There are more casualties than that. It's unspeakably putrid and disgusting that anyone would even attempt a rationalization of such countless, egregious, and barbarian historical atrocities, let alone embrace and defend them.
posted by hama7 at 4:24 AM on February 9, 2004
Since you might have otherwise overlooked it, perhaps you'd like to browse the brief yet concise preamble to the Constitution of the United States, which is an introduction to the responsibilities and limits of government. To "provide for the common defense" is indeed one of the few duties that the U.S. government is constitutionally required to perform. Sorry.
hama7, would you like to show me where in the US constitution communism is outlawed?
Any social system which seeks to overthrow the United States government and replace it with another is an enemy system: "the political activity of international communism or any totalitarian doctrine is incompatible with the concept of American freedom, which rests upon two undeniable postulates; the dignity of man as an individual and the sovereignty of the nation as a state".
This Buena Vista Bolshevik band member, though ignorant, misguided, and immoral as all red socialists inevitably are, is not half as dangerous as soft-focusing communism in all its historical blood-soaked, mass-graved, gulag carnage and murderous horror. Does 100 million dead not speak for itself?
"The toll defies imagining. 1.7 million dead in Cambodia. 25 million in the Soviet Union. 65 million in China."
There are more casualties than that. It's unspeakably putrid and disgusting that anyone would even attempt a rationalization of such countless, egregious, and barbarian historical atrocities, let alone embrace and defend them.
posted by hama7 at 4:24 AM on February 9, 2004
Communism doesn't kill people. People kill people.
posted by Opus Dark at 5:06 AM on February 9, 2004
posted by Opus Dark at 5:06 AM on February 9, 2004
Is hama7 just an alias for AnnThrax Coulter?
Or perhaps he's pitching for a job with FAUX News?
posted by nofundy at 5:11 AM on February 9, 2004
Or perhaps he's pitching for a job with FAUX News?
posted by nofundy at 5:11 AM on February 9, 2004
There's a time and a place for feeding trolls, this is not it.
Ibrahim Ferrer is a lovely old man, by all accounts. As noted above, denying his visa is a political act designed to assuage the braying Cuban ex-pat voters. This has nothing to do with the security of the US.
posted by asok at 5:13 AM on February 9, 2004
Ibrahim Ferrer is a lovely old man, by all accounts. As noted above, denying his visa is a political act designed to assuage the braying Cuban ex-pat voters. This has nothing to do with the security of the US.
posted by asok at 5:13 AM on February 9, 2004
is incompatible with the concept of American freedom
I for one recognize hama7's freedom to be scared shitless of a 77 year old musician.
/However, if he wants to talk about Cuba, he should expect to also be covering nearby paradises such as Colombia and Guatemala
posted by magullo at 5:16 AM on February 9, 2004
I for one recognize hama7's freedom to be scared shitless of a 77 year old musician.
/However, if he wants to talk about Cuba, he should expect to also be covering nearby paradises such as Colombia and Guatemala
posted by magullo at 5:16 AM on February 9, 2004
"This Buena Vista Bolshevik band member, though ignorant, misguided, and immoral as all red socialists inevitably are........"
You are so precious.
posted by y6y6y6 at 7:04 AM on February 9, 2004
You are so precious.
posted by y6y6y6 at 7:04 AM on February 9, 2004
So Ibrahim Ferrer (picking up asok's point) is denied entrance into the US, while Orlando Bosch (arguably the busiest terrorist of the 20th Century) and other rightwing Cuban-America terrorists get pardons, winks, and a general pass from George W. Bush and his father (to buy Miaimi votes, some say).
Oh boy. But it's OK I suppose. They're "our" terrorists, blowing up people and airliners in opposition to Castro's evil regime.
posted by troutfishing at 7:42 AM on February 9, 2004
Oh boy. But it's OK I suppose. They're "our" terrorists, blowing up people and airliners in opposition to Castro's evil regime.
posted by troutfishing at 7:42 AM on February 9, 2004
Since you might have otherwise overlooked it, perhaps you'd like to browse the brief yet concise preamble to the Constitution of the United States, which is an introduction to the responsibilities and limits of government. To "provide for the common defense" is indeed one of the few duties that the U.S. government is constitutionally required to perform. Sorry.
another fishy libertarian position. silly statements like this are akin to other silly statements like, "our founding fathers wanted this to be a christian nation!" does john hancock visit you dudes in y'all's sleep and implore you to carry the torch he left behind? do you find James Madison so neat that so many hundreds of years later you're still fighting for what you sorta-think-had-a-hunch he would've wanted in a democracy?
this just in from intro to political science: the founding fathers designed our government in such a way that would allow it to change with the people's needs. this isn't historic jamestown anymore. without social programs, things around here would get bad enough that people might wanna start a red revolution. people like... EVERY ONE OF US HERE ON METAFILTER! LOOK OUT!
posted by mcsweetie at 7:42 AM on February 9, 2004
another fishy libertarian position. silly statements like this are akin to other silly statements like, "our founding fathers wanted this to be a christian nation!" does john hancock visit you dudes in y'all's sleep and implore you to carry the torch he left behind? do you find James Madison so neat that so many hundreds of years later you're still fighting for what you sorta-think-had-a-hunch he would've wanted in a democracy?
this just in from intro to political science: the founding fathers designed our government in such a way that would allow it to change with the people's needs. this isn't historic jamestown anymore. without social programs, things around here would get bad enough that people might wanna start a red revolution. people like... EVERY ONE OF US HERE ON METAFILTER! LOOK OUT!
posted by mcsweetie at 7:42 AM on February 9, 2004
I'm surprised no-one's pointed out the very obvious; that apart from the fact that denying Cuban citizens the right to visit is not in keeping with our principles, it works much more to Castro's advantage than to ours.
We don't like your way of life, so we're not going to let you see ours, nyah, nyah. Castro is presumably thrilled with this policy; how could he not be? It dovetails perfectly with his own.
posted by George_Spiggott at 8:38 AM on February 9, 2004
We don't like your way of life, so we're not going to let you see ours, nyah, nyah. Castro is presumably thrilled with this policy; how could he not be? It dovetails perfectly with his own.
posted by George_Spiggott at 8:38 AM on February 9, 2004
The US could be communist tomorrow and there's not a damn thing you, nor the supreme court, nor the president can do about it.
Funny thing is, other countries have become communist overnight (in a free, democratic election, no less!), and the US certainly did something about it.
posted by Jimbob at 2:54 PM on February 9, 2004
Funny thing is, other countries have become communist overnight (in a free, democratic election, no less!), and the US certainly did something about it.
posted by Jimbob at 2:54 PM on February 9, 2004
Taxpayer funded social(ist) programs are a sand-pounding . . . they are immorality manifest.
What the FUCK, hama? Are you off your meds or something? When you spout this kind of asinine shit I just want to grab you by the neck and squeeze as hard as I can while asking if I'm offending your American rights by trying to knock some sense into you.
I don't understand how you don't see people as people but as political ideologies that you either agree with or must destroy. I don't understand how you don't see that your brand of ideology is as damaging, if not more so, than those of the ones that you hate. I don't understand you one little bit, and frankly, when you go off like this, I wish you simply didn't exist. I know that's harsh, but I find your ideology so damn offensive that you make me think about you the way you think about THEM - if that makes any sense - and the fact that you make me think this way makes me fucking mad.
Hama7, you are a little little man who is just as dangerous as any terrorist, any religious leader or any political leader. I hope to allah you never get an iota of power over anybody.
posted by ashbury at 9:11 PM on February 9, 2004
What the FUCK, hama? Are you off your meds or something? When you spout this kind of asinine shit I just want to grab you by the neck and squeeze as hard as I can while asking if I'm offending your American rights by trying to knock some sense into you.
I don't understand how you don't see people as people but as political ideologies that you either agree with or must destroy. I don't understand how you don't see that your brand of ideology is as damaging, if not more so, than those of the ones that you hate. I don't understand you one little bit, and frankly, when you go off like this, I wish you simply didn't exist. I know that's harsh, but I find your ideology so damn offensive that you make me think about you the way you think about THEM - if that makes any sense - and the fact that you make me think this way makes me fucking mad.
Hama7, you are a little little man who is just as dangerous as any terrorist, any religious leader or any political leader. I hope to allah you never get an iota of power over anybody.
posted by ashbury at 9:11 PM on February 9, 2004
When you spout this kind of asinine shit I just want to grab you by the neck and squeeze
You simply further make my point. It just makes you feel like a little purge, doesn't it?
posted by hama7 at 5:41 AM on February 10, 2004
You simply further make my point. It just makes you feel like a little purge, doesn't it?
posted by hama7 at 5:41 AM on February 10, 2004
the founding fathers designed our government in such a way that would allow it to change with the people's needs.
Priceless. I will partially forego a rather obvious comment on the results of socialized education.
The U.S. Constitution does not change, regardless of fluctuations in the political climate. Here is the amendment process, and more information on Constitutional Amendments.
Scalia's and Goldberg's comments.
posted by hama7 at 6:09 AM on February 10, 2004
Priceless. I will partially forego a rather obvious comment on the results of socialized education.
The U.S. Constitution does not change, regardless of fluctuations in the political climate. Here is the amendment process, and more information on Constitutional Amendments.
Scalia's and Goldberg's comments.
posted by hama7 at 6:09 AM on February 10, 2004
You simply further make my point. It just makes you feel like a little purge, doesn't it?
Makes me feel like shitting myself with laughter, if that's what you meant.
posted by bifter at 6:42 AM on February 10, 2004
Makes me feel like shitting myself with laughter, if that's what you meant.
posted by bifter at 6:42 AM on February 10, 2004
"There is no difference between communism and socialism, except in the means of achieving the same ultimate end: communism proposes to enslave men by force, socialism - by vote. It is merely the difference between murder and suicide." - A. Rand
posted by hama7 at 7:03 AM on February 10, 2004
posted by hama7 at 7:03 AM on February 10, 2004
I will partially forego a rather obvious comment on the results of socialized education.
er, we should let the market decide?
The U.S. Constitution does not change, regardless of fluctuations in the political climate.
semantics, but notice I used the g-word and not the c-word. but I could see that one going another 10 or 11 comments before someone just gets bored so lets disagree to agree but not say anything about it.
Scalia's and Goldberg's comments.
hmm, well it seems like scalia and goldberg don't know what a "living document" means. I'm talking about changing and amending, not reinterpretation (on which I actually agree with them), which is controlled by legal processes and not the whims of "robed masters."
"There is no difference between communism and socialism, except in the means of achieving the same ultimate end: communism proposes to enslave men by force, socialism - by vote. It is merely the difference between murder and suicide." - A. Rand
"Communism and Capitalism are two roads that lead to slavery." - E. Hemingway
posted by mcsweetie at 8:14 AM on February 10, 2004
er, we should let the market decide?
The U.S. Constitution does not change, regardless of fluctuations in the political climate.
semantics, but notice I used the g-word and not the c-word. but I could see that one going another 10 or 11 comments before someone just gets bored so lets disagree to agree but not say anything about it.
Scalia's and Goldberg's comments.
hmm, well it seems like scalia and goldberg don't know what a "living document" means. I'm talking about changing and amending, not reinterpretation (on which I actually agree with them), which is controlled by legal processes and not the whims of "robed masters."
"There is no difference between communism and socialism, except in the means of achieving the same ultimate end: communism proposes to enslave men by force, socialism - by vote. It is merely the difference between murder and suicide." - A. Rand
"Communism and Capitalism are two roads that lead to slavery." - E. Hemingway
posted by mcsweetie at 8:14 AM on February 10, 2004
The difference between the Rand and Hemingway quotes is that Rand is right, and Hemingway is not.
Also, I have never seen anything like that quote attributed to Hemingway, though he did have a penchant for supporting immoral communist causes.
posted by hama7 at 9:50 AM on February 10, 2004
Also, I have never seen anything like that quote attributed to Hemingway, though he did have a penchant for supporting immoral communist causes.
posted by hama7 at 9:50 AM on February 10, 2004
The difference between the Rand and Hemingway quotes is that Rand is right, and Hemingway is not.
a damning rebuttal indeed, but I submit that they're both right.
posted by mcsweetie at 10:59 AM on February 10, 2004
a damning rebuttal indeed, but I submit that they're both right.
posted by mcsweetie at 10:59 AM on February 10, 2004
Isn't it indisputable that as we sit in our own homes at our computers using the internet, that we are enjoying the very material and intellectual fruits of capitalism? Have you consdered that the money used to buy a single one of our computers might feed, clothe and house a family for an entire year in a communist country like China, Cuba or the former Soviet republics?
Moral, free-market exchange of goods and services, which has led to the world's greatest prosperity, is incomparable to immoral communist government confiscation and redistribution of wealth and elimination of private property. Communism and its brutal sibling socialism have historically done nothing but increased human misery, bloodshed, poverty and suffering. All 'submissions' to the contrary are incorrect.
What's more disturbing and outrageous with regard to this thread is that the owner and operator of this very website believes not only that rightfully denying visas to avowed enemies if the United States is an "Un-fucking-believable embarrassment", but also that individual specialized university education and health care should be paid for with other people's money through government theft and redistribution, and that Michael Moore's tired stream of Marxist cliches, racism and fomenting non-existent class warfare from a multi million-dollar home on New York's Upper West Side shows his "love" for his country.
Un-Fucking-Believable.
posted by hama7 at 6:45 AM on February 18, 2004
Moral, free-market exchange of goods and services, which has led to the world's greatest prosperity, is incomparable to immoral communist government confiscation and redistribution of wealth and elimination of private property. Communism and its brutal sibling socialism have historically done nothing but increased human misery, bloodshed, poverty and suffering. All 'submissions' to the contrary are incorrect.
What's more disturbing and outrageous with regard to this thread is that the owner and operator of this very website believes not only that rightfully denying visas to avowed enemies if the United States is an "Un-fucking-believable embarrassment", but also that individual specialized university education and health care should be paid for with other people's money through government theft and redistribution, and that Michael Moore's tired stream of Marxist cliches, racism and fomenting non-existent class warfare from a multi million-dollar home on New York's Upper West Side shows his "love" for his country.
Un-Fucking-Believable.
posted by hama7 at 6:45 AM on February 18, 2004
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This would be the same State Department that created the "Visa Express" program (because it's good to expedite visas from our friends in Saudi Arabia) that enabled 12 of the 19 September 11 hijackers to enter the US--including those who were already wanted on suspicion of terrorist acts, like Mohammed Atta, yes?
posted by Sidhedevil at 10:30 AM on February 8, 2004