If Bush is re-elected, can we call those who voted for him
March 26, 2004 8:19 AM Subscribe
I thought Bush liked to give off to the public that he was serious about WMD.
Guess I was wrong.
America. Get rid of him, for all your own sakes (and I include conservatives in this. He has to go. This European isn't asking; he's begging.
Guess I was wrong.
America. Get rid of him, for all your own sakes (and I include conservatives in this. He has to go. This European isn't asking; he's begging.
This post was deleted for the following reason: way to make a point
Heh, well it is kinda funny...
except for all the corpses, of course.
posted by zekinskia at 8:28 AM on March 26, 2004
except for all the corpses, of course.
posted by zekinskia at 8:28 AM on March 26, 2004
sorry tom. America does not give in to begging.
and for you "europeans", you all have more problems then i can name. You know, Teddy Roosevelt invited Booker T washington to the white house for dinner and was almost flayed alive politically. Then he invited americans to the white house with their wives and the southern folk just walked out. perhaps those days are behind us but i still recall reading that woodrow wilson making a crack about TRs groundhog day activities, Wilson said he thought TR might replace the groundhog with a "coon".
posted by clavdivs at 8:35 AM on March 26, 2004
and for you "europeans", you all have more problems then i can name. You know, Teddy Roosevelt invited Booker T washington to the white house for dinner and was almost flayed alive politically. Then he invited americans to the white house with their wives and the southern folk just walked out. perhaps those days are behind us but i still recall reading that woodrow wilson making a crack about TRs groundhog day activities, Wilson said he thought TR might replace the groundhog with a "coon".
posted by clavdivs at 8:35 AM on March 26, 2004
Are psychopaths responsible for their actions? How about Presidents who are psycho? How about all these people who were applauding? How about the majority of the nation that swallowed everything up?
posted by acrobat at 8:37 AM on March 26, 2004
posted by acrobat at 8:37 AM on March 26, 2004
Holy crap.
posted by ZenMasterThis at 8:38 AM on March 26, 2004
posted by ZenMasterThis at 8:38 AM on March 26, 2004
I don't know what it's going to take to make the American people understand what an absolutely horrible human being our current president is. I cannot fathom the mind of anyone who could support this man. They have to be intellectually lazy or stand to gain something from his callous disregard for the Constitution and the people of this country. From the "Bring It On!" comment to this new total lack of respect for all of us (and I include our friends around the world) it keeps getting worse and worse. What can we do with a nation full of "sheeple" who refuse to see the evil for what it is?
posted by waltb555 at 8:40 AM on March 26, 2004
posted by waltb555 at 8:40 AM on March 26, 2004
Although this is sort of appalling, given the context where Bush delivered the remarks, it can be seen as an accident. Don't get me wrong, I'm definitely in ABB mode. But, I think there are much better, more substantive issues to focus on, and no point in getting distracted on something like this (comedy can go wrong, its hard to draw the line).
posted by nads at 8:40 AM on March 26, 2004
posted by nads at 8:40 AM on March 26, 2004
Oh, get a Eurospine.
You idiots fought with each other for 1500 years without almost any break. You were ruled then by kings, now by socialist bureaucrats. Your legal system was, for the most part, created by either the Romans or Napoleon Bonarparte, so the idea of "justice" on your continent is a joke. And you don't like how *we* do business?
Most of the people who live in North America either are descended from those who lived there before, or who left Europe in disgust and rebellion. The cream of the crop, as it were.
Face it, we like looking at you for the same reason we like to see historical dramas--to see what was, not things as how we would like them to be. The few Europhiles we have just happen to have more magazine columns than the average.
Americans despise your snivelling pessimism, your pragmatic willingness to abandon your standards and ethics when challenged. Your knack at trying to be middle of the road when you have a clear choice. Face it, your drive and vitality have been burned out of you. French movies suck.
Bush will win reelection, because he leads, in whatever direction, and he isn't half-assed about it. Americans like that. I think we can all applaud that there are give-or-take a hundred thousand fewer murderous assholes on the planet thanks to Bushs 41 and 43.
Ironically enough, this isn't just bluster and bravado, it is American history. The same America that kept you lads from having to do stiff-leg marching exercises every morning, and is in the process of keeping you from eventually having to pray four times a day or get your silly heads cut off.
posted by kablam at 8:41 AM on March 26, 2004
You idiots fought with each other for 1500 years without almost any break. You were ruled then by kings, now by socialist bureaucrats. Your legal system was, for the most part, created by either the Romans or Napoleon Bonarparte, so the idea of "justice" on your continent is a joke. And you don't like how *we* do business?
Most of the people who live in North America either are descended from those who lived there before, or who left Europe in disgust and rebellion. The cream of the crop, as it were.
Face it, we like looking at you for the same reason we like to see historical dramas--to see what was, not things as how we would like them to be. The few Europhiles we have just happen to have more magazine columns than the average.
Americans despise your snivelling pessimism, your pragmatic willingness to abandon your standards and ethics when challenged. Your knack at trying to be middle of the road when you have a clear choice. Face it, your drive and vitality have been burned out of you. French movies suck.
Bush will win reelection, because he leads, in whatever direction, and he isn't half-assed about it. Americans like that. I think we can all applaud that there are give-or-take a hundred thousand fewer murderous assholes on the planet thanks to Bushs 41 and 43.
Ironically enough, this isn't just bluster and bravado, it is American history. The same America that kept you lads from having to do stiff-leg marching exercises every morning, and is in the process of keeping you from eventually having to pray four times a day or get your silly heads cut off.
posted by kablam at 8:41 AM on March 26, 2004
You know what would have been funny? A few slides showing Bush trying unsuccessfully to find work an filing for unemployment when he gets voted out of office.
posted by mkultra at 8:43 AM on March 26, 2004
posted by mkultra at 8:43 AM on March 26, 2004
For the record, not all of us Americans despise or disrespect Europe.
posted by callmejay at 8:45 AM on March 26, 2004
posted by callmejay at 8:45 AM on March 26, 2004
I think we can all applaud that there are give-or-take a hundred thousand fewer murderous assholes on the planet thanks to Bushs 41 and 43.
Speaking of muderous assholes, I gotta lay off the chili! Whew!
posted by ColdChef at 8:48 AM on March 26, 2004
Speaking of muderous assholes, I gotta lay off the chili! Whew!
posted by ColdChef at 8:48 AM on March 26, 2004
You know what else would have been funny? A slide showing Bush shrugging and smirking at Nancy Reagan after the stem cell research ban. Sorry, Nancy! The science that could have saved your husband from being an Alzheimer's-addled hulk is morally wrong! (wah wah waaaaaah...)
posted by RylandDotNet at 8:49 AM on March 26, 2004
posted by RylandDotNet at 8:49 AM on March 26, 2004
Wait. If we murdered murderous assholes, and WE'RE assholes, and we murdered people...carry the two...hmmm...anyone wanna check my math here?
posted by ColdChef at 8:50 AM on March 26, 2004
posted by ColdChef at 8:50 AM on March 26, 2004
This Canadian wants him gone too. I'm also tired of people smirkingly asking me if I'm related.
posted by davebush at 8:51 AM on March 26, 2004
posted by davebush at 8:51 AM on March 26, 2004
Don't you think it's a bit presumptuous to speak for all Americans? There's a sizeable number of us that aren't crazy about Bush or his disastrous lack of foreign policy.
posted by rks404 at 8:52 AM on March 26, 2004
posted by rks404 at 8:52 AM on March 26, 2004
Wait, tomcosgrave says:
I love America. I grew up surrounded by American culture.
And for that he gets Kablam's rant. We really aren't as bad as you think, Kablam.
posted by einarorn at 8:52 AM on March 26, 2004
I love America. I grew up surrounded by American culture.
And for that he gets Kablam's rant. We really aren't as bad as you think, Kablam.
posted by einarorn at 8:52 AM on March 26, 2004
You idiots fought with each other for 1500 years without almost any break. You were ruled then by kings, now by socialist bureaucrats. Your legal system was, for the most part, created by either the Romans or Napoleon Bonarparte, so the idea of "justice" on your continent is a joke. And you don't like how *we* do business?
Guantanamo bay. We don't lock people up without trial indefinitely. We allow the accused to consult solicitors. And are our legal systems that much different, except that in certain cases yours allow no chance of a fair trial?
Most of the people who live in North America either are descended from those who lived there before, or who left Europe in disgust and rebellion. The cream of the crop, as it were.
Nyes, the religiously persecuted, those caught as slaves, criminals, and those driven out by war and famine. The _cream_ of the crop.
posted by BigCalm at 8:54 AM on March 26, 2004
Guantanamo bay. We don't lock people up without trial indefinitely. We allow the accused to consult solicitors. And are our legal systems that much different, except that in certain cases yours allow no chance of a fair trial?
Most of the people who live in North America either are descended from those who lived there before, or who left Europe in disgust and rebellion. The cream of the crop, as it were.
Nyes, the religiously persecuted, those caught as slaves, criminals, and those driven out by war and famine. The _cream_ of the crop.
posted by BigCalm at 8:54 AM on March 26, 2004
Thanks for the post tomcosgrave. My sentiments are with you, and against Bush and his supporters.
I think you will find those on the other side of the issues are a lot more crass than those who share your views.
posted by alball at 8:57 AM on March 26, 2004
I think you will find those on the other side of the issues are a lot more crass than those who share your views.
posted by alball at 8:57 AM on March 26, 2004
Go on, kablam! Follow your leader. And while behind him, inhale deeply and enjoy the smell. Soon you'll be able to fuck up every country on the planet. What a wonderful, wonderful world you're dreaming of... Mmmm!
posted by acrobat at 8:57 AM on March 26, 2004
posted by acrobat at 8:57 AM on March 26, 2004
tomcosgrove, thankfully kablam doesn't speak for us, and no one authorized him to say Americans despise you. And you should of course realize that if he holds you and other living Europeans responsible for 1500 years of war (as he is pleased to imagine it) then he himself is responsible for slavery and the mass murder in the streets of labor union members and veterans who protest for their benefits: the latter two of which occurred in within the last century.
Oh, and according to kablam, you and other living Europeans are presumably also responsible for the Renaissance, the Enlightenment, the Protestant Reformation, and virtually all of what we call classical music. Very nicely done, my compliments.
posted by George_Spiggott at 8:57 AM on March 26, 2004
Oh, and according to kablam, you and other living Europeans are presumably also responsible for the Renaissance, the Enlightenment, the Protestant Reformation, and virtually all of what we call classical music. Very nicely done, my compliments.
posted by George_Spiggott at 8:57 AM on March 26, 2004
"The same America that kept you lads from having to do stiff-leg marching exercises every morning, and is in the process of keeping you from eventually having to pray four times a day or get your silly heads cut off."
I really hope that was sarcasm. I really do. What the US did for Europe in WWII was great, but it was by no means the saviour of Europe. The Russians recieved and gave back much more of a beating than the US. However, without the contributions of any of the allied nations, the war could not have been won, so take your US superhero speech and kindly shove it.
Secondly, your statement about prayer times illustrates your ignorance even more. There are five prayer times in the Islamic day, and, moreso, the only time Europe was under threat of being conquered by Islamic peoples was during the Moorish occupation, and that was way before America was even thought of.
posted by dazed_one at 8:58 AM on March 26, 2004
I really hope that was sarcasm. I really do. What the US did for Europe in WWII was great, but it was by no means the saviour of Europe. The Russians recieved and gave back much more of a beating than the US. However, without the contributions of any of the allied nations, the war could not have been won, so take your US superhero speech and kindly shove it.
Secondly, your statement about prayer times illustrates your ignorance even more. There are five prayer times in the Islamic day, and, moreso, the only time Europe was under threat of being conquered by Islamic peoples was during the Moorish occupation, and that was way before America was even thought of.
posted by dazed_one at 8:58 AM on March 26, 2004
Kahboom is a little too close to kablam for my comfort right now.
posted by kahboom at 8:59 AM on March 26, 2004
posted by kahboom at 8:59 AM on March 26, 2004
I would also like to submit that I, nor just about anyone I know, despise Europe (or for that matter, any ethnic group) or think you are all idiots, and if some of the polls I've been reading are correct, a great deal of americans aren't really all that into marching like lemmings behind bush.
posted by mcsweetie at 9:02 AM on March 26, 2004
posted by mcsweetie at 9:02 AM on March 26, 2004
You idiots . . . Face it, we like looking at you for the same reason we like to see historical dramas--to see what was, not things as how we would like them to be. The few Europhiles we have just happen to have more magazine columns than the average.
Kablam, get out much? Own a passport? Ever actually spend time in Europe?
You've just upped the abusive ante from ad hominem to what? I guess ad contintentum. Thanks for moving the debate forward so constructively.
posted by donovan at 9:03 AM on March 26, 2004
Kablam, get out much? Own a passport? Ever actually spend time in Europe?
You've just upped the abusive ante from ad hominem to what? I guess ad contintentum. Thanks for moving the debate forward so constructively.
posted by donovan at 9:03 AM on March 26, 2004
Guantanamo bay. We don't lock people up without trial indefinitely. We allow the accused to consult solicitors. And are our legal systems that much different, except that in certain cases yours allow no chance of a fair trial?
Hmmmmm
well, at least we don't have the reds to fear anymore...
"A. Mitchell Palmer claimed that Communist agents from Russia were planning to overthrow the American government. On 7th November, 1919, the second anniversary of the Russian Revolution, over 10,000 suspected communists and anarchists were arrested. Palmer and Hoover found no evidence of a proposed revolution but large number of these suspects were held without trial for a long time. The vast majority were eventually released but Emma Goldman, Alexander Berkman, Mollie Steimer, and 245 other people, were deported to Russia.
In January, 1920, another 6,000 were arrested and held without trial. These raids took place in several cities and became known as the Palmer Raids. Palmer and Hoover found no evidence of a proposed revolution but large number of these suspects, many of them members of the Industrial Workers of the World (IWW), continued to be held without trial. When Palmer announced that the communist revolution was likely to take place on 1st May, mass panic took place. In New York, five elected Socialists were expelled from the legislature.
When the May revolution failed to materialize, attitudes towards Palmer began to change and he was criticised for disregarding people's basic civil liberties."
posted by clavdivs at 9:06 AM on March 26, 2004
Hmmmmm
well, at least we don't have the reds to fear anymore...
"A. Mitchell Palmer claimed that Communist agents from Russia were planning to overthrow the American government. On 7th November, 1919, the second anniversary of the Russian Revolution, over 10,000 suspected communists and anarchists were arrested. Palmer and Hoover found no evidence of a proposed revolution but large number of these suspects were held without trial for a long time. The vast majority were eventually released but Emma Goldman, Alexander Berkman, Mollie Steimer, and 245 other people, were deported to Russia.
In January, 1920, another 6,000 were arrested and held without trial. These raids took place in several cities and became known as the Palmer Raids. Palmer and Hoover found no evidence of a proposed revolution but large number of these suspects, many of them members of the Industrial Workers of the World (IWW), continued to be held without trial. When Palmer announced that the communist revolution was likely to take place on 1st May, mass panic took place. In New York, five elected Socialists were expelled from the legislature.
When the May revolution failed to materialize, attitudes towards Palmer began to change and he was criticised for disregarding people's basic civil liberties."
posted by clavdivs at 9:06 AM on March 26, 2004
This European isn't asking; he's begging.
No offense, we have each a vote that is ours.
posted by thomcatspike at 9:08 AM on March 26, 2004
No offense, we have each a vote that is ours.
posted by thomcatspike at 9:08 AM on March 26, 2004
the war could not have been won, so take your US superhero speech and kindly shove it.
huh?. Then what about that first world war, no laffy taffy this way for the dead you sent back to us?
posted by clavdivs at 9:10 AM on March 26, 2004
huh?. Then what about that first world war, no laffy taffy this way for the dead you sent back to us?
posted by clavdivs at 9:10 AM on March 26, 2004
Sure - coldchef - not all "murders" are equal. If they were, police would be disarmed, you see. Some killings are "murder" and others are "manslaughter" and others are "in time of war" and they're all different, although dead is still dead.
Now, to Europe - how about you stop voting in chickhearts (Zapatero) the utterly corrupt (Chirac and Berlusconi) you stop your immigrant populations from terrorizing the Jews that live there, and then ask us nicely if we'll listen to your sophisticated nuanced advice. Also, if you'd stop with the burning of the American flag, we might listen a little closer, and stop coming out with rallies decrying us, stop saying things like "I really like America but" and "International law says..."
On the flip side - can you imagine the unrest if Americans tried to tell the rest of the world that they needed to gang up and convince say, Spanish voters, that they need to vote for one particular candidate? "Maybe if we got everyone in the world to vote before the spanish elections, they'd vote the 'right' way and they wouldn't seem like terror appeasers, and that would be great!" Man.
So Bush has a sense of humor about the fact that the WMDs that Chirac, Clinton, Annan, Gore, Schroeder, Hussein, Assad, and every other major world leader (and most of the minor ones) thought were there and can't now be found. I think that says good things about his humanity, frankly. I'm still not voting for him because he misunderstands the constitution, but this example is ridiculous.
And RylandDotNet points out another reason I'm voting ABB. But this thing, man, tempest::teapot.
Bigcalm - people captured in time of war on a battlefield have different rights from normal criminals no matter what culture you're talking about. Whether they're illegal combatants (terrorists or mercenaries) or POWs.
Nyes, the religiously persecuted, those caught as slaves, criminals, and those driven out by war and famine. The _cream_ of the crop.
Yep. Calling us the cream of the crop is more apt than you think - when a corrupt ruler outlaws a religion (as in, say, Spain in the 1400s or Saudi Arabia today) then those of that religion are outlaws. Previously, they were merchants, academics, soldiers, what have you. Now they're outlaws, according to the rules of the corrupt. Doesn't change who they were, just outlawed them. Hence our bill of rights, to protect those rights that they were denied.
dazed_one hope you're right about Europe, I always wanted to visit Spain, not Catalan. If you take Al Qaeda at their word, though...
posted by swerdloff at 9:11 AM on March 26, 2004
Now, to Europe - how about you stop voting in chickhearts (Zapatero) the utterly corrupt (Chirac and Berlusconi) you stop your immigrant populations from terrorizing the Jews that live there, and then ask us nicely if we'll listen to your sophisticated nuanced advice. Also, if you'd stop with the burning of the American flag, we might listen a little closer, and stop coming out with rallies decrying us, stop saying things like "I really like America but" and "International law says..."
On the flip side - can you imagine the unrest if Americans tried to tell the rest of the world that they needed to gang up and convince say, Spanish voters, that they need to vote for one particular candidate? "Maybe if we got everyone in the world to vote before the spanish elections, they'd vote the 'right' way and they wouldn't seem like terror appeasers, and that would be great!" Man.
So Bush has a sense of humor about the fact that the WMDs that Chirac, Clinton, Annan, Gore, Schroeder, Hussein, Assad, and every other major world leader (and most of the minor ones) thought were there and can't now be found. I think that says good things about his humanity, frankly. I'm still not voting for him because he misunderstands the constitution, but this example is ridiculous.
And RylandDotNet points out another reason I'm voting ABB. But this thing, man, tempest::teapot.
Bigcalm - people captured in time of war on a battlefield have different rights from normal criminals no matter what culture you're talking about. Whether they're illegal combatants (terrorists or mercenaries) or POWs.
Nyes, the religiously persecuted, those caught as slaves, criminals, and those driven out by war and famine. The _cream_ of the crop.
Yep. Calling us the cream of the crop is more apt than you think - when a corrupt ruler outlaws a religion (as in, say, Spain in the 1400s or Saudi Arabia today) then those of that religion are outlaws. Previously, they were merchants, academics, soldiers, what have you. Now they're outlaws, according to the rules of the corrupt. Doesn't change who they were, just outlawed them. Hence our bill of rights, to protect those rights that they were denied.
dazed_one hope you're right about Europe, I always wanted to visit Spain, not Catalan. If you take Al Qaeda at their word, though...
posted by swerdloff at 9:11 AM on March 26, 2004
I hate Asia.
posted by Ignatius J. Reilly at 9:13 AM on March 26, 2004
posted by Ignatius J. Reilly at 9:13 AM on March 26, 2004
how about you stop voting in chickhearts
Like Bush's entire administration, whose courage extends to sending in other people's children, but not going themselves or sending their own.
the utterly corrupt
Is Cheney still drawing a "deferred" salary from Halliburton?
posted by George_Spiggott at 9:14 AM on March 26, 2004
Like Bush's entire administration, whose courage extends to sending in other people's children, but not going themselves or sending their own.
the utterly corrupt
Is Cheney still drawing a "deferred" salary from Halliburton?
posted by George_Spiggott at 9:14 AM on March 26, 2004
ha , there wouldnt even be an america without europe saving your asses from those guys with the funny haircuts and blankets.
posted by sgt.serenity at 9:14 AM on March 26, 2004
posted by sgt.serenity at 9:14 AM on March 26, 2004
ha , there wouldnt even be an america without europe saving your asses from those guys with the funny haircuts and blankets.
Emo kids?
posted by dhoyt at 9:18 AM on March 26, 2004
Emo kids?
posted by dhoyt at 9:18 AM on March 26, 2004
When did the Democrats lose their sense of humor?
Guantanamo bay. We don't lock people up without trial indefinitely. We allow the accused to consult solicitors.
Actually, Article 15 of the European Convention on Human Rights allows member states to detain suspects indefinitely in certain circumstances. Circumstances that, quite frankly. sound to me a lot like September 11th would sound if it had happened to a Europena nation. In fact, immediately after Sept. 11, the Joint Committee on Human Rights specifically stated that British derogation from Article 15 was not justified precisely because there had been no Al Queda attacks on British soil. By implication, then, had Al Queda attacked Big Ben rather than the world trade center, indefinite detention would have been justified by the Joint Committee (at least, that's my cursory reading).
posted by gd779 at 9:22 AM on March 26, 2004
Guantanamo bay. We don't lock people up without trial indefinitely. We allow the accused to consult solicitors.
Actually, Article 15 of the European Convention on Human Rights allows member states to detain suspects indefinitely in certain circumstances. Circumstances that, quite frankly. sound to me a lot like September 11th would sound if it had happened to a Europena nation. In fact, immediately after Sept. 11, the Joint Committee on Human Rights specifically stated that British derogation from Article 15 was not justified precisely because there had been no Al Queda attacks on British soil. By implication, then, had Al Queda attacked Big Ben rather than the world trade center, indefinite detention would have been justified by the Joint Committee (at least, that's my cursory reading).
posted by gd779 at 9:22 AM on March 26, 2004
Meh, he's not being any more of an asshole than he was the day before, and the day before that. He's an asshole, that's who he is. He doesn't give two shits about people who aren't his friends. You don't need this thread or a lame staffer-written joke to prove it.
All this outrage is making me thirsty.
posted by PrinceValium at 9:25 AM on March 26, 2004
All this outrage is making me thirsty.
posted by PrinceValium at 9:25 AM on March 26, 2004
Don't feed the kablam troll , thank you. For apes look at your left.
posted by elpapacito at 9:25 AM on March 26, 2004
posted by elpapacito at 9:25 AM on March 26, 2004
So Bush has a sense of humor about the fact that the WMDs that Chirac, Clinton, Annan, Gore, Schroeder, Hussein, Assad, and every other major world leader (and most of the minor ones) thought were there and can't now be found
the only reason they thought they were there was due to faulty US intelligence...
As soon as I got over the shock of 9/11, it was apparent Bush would use it as an excuse to go to war against Saddam. If you honestly couldn't see it coming you really are thick as champ.
What about America's WMD's - double standards going on. It's alright for a 'great, free, nation' to be armed and arm who they care. But not 'unstable, erratic dictatorships'. I'd say it's time to disarm the West.
posted by twistedonion at 9:25 AM on March 26, 2004
the only reason they thought they were there was due to faulty US intelligence...
As soon as I got over the shock of 9/11, it was apparent Bush would use it as an excuse to go to war against Saddam. If you honestly couldn't see it coming you really are thick as champ.
What about America's WMD's - double standards going on. It's alright for a 'great, free, nation' to be armed and arm who they care. But not 'unstable, erratic dictatorships'. I'd say it's time to disarm the West.
posted by twistedonion at 9:25 AM on March 26, 2004
America was losing it's way long before Bush.
He's just accelerating the process.
posted by SpaceCadet at 9:28 AM on March 26, 2004
He's just accelerating the process.
posted by SpaceCadet at 9:28 AM on March 26, 2004
The same America that kept you lads from having to do stiff-leg marching exercises every morning....
Yeah, it's not like any European nations have every helped the U.S. Although I seem to remember a certain Ben Franklin getting help from France to win the Revolutionary War....
posted by hyperizer at 9:31 AM on March 26, 2004
Yeah, it's not like any European nations have every helped the U.S. Although I seem to remember a certain Ben Franklin getting help from France to win the Revolutionary War....
posted by hyperizer at 9:31 AM on March 26, 2004
Anyone who likes to be led "in whatever direction" as long as it isn't half-assed deserves whatever misfortune they get no matter what their political persuasion is.
posted by furiousthought at 9:32 AM on March 26, 2004
posted by furiousthought at 9:32 AM on March 26, 2004
OK, I'm going to ignore all the ridiculous yapping about who did what for whom 50, 80, 200, 500 etc. years ago. But I want to respond to this trashy point:
swerdloff: So Bush has a sense of humor about the fact that the WMDs that Chirac, Clinton, Annan, Gore, Schroeder, Hussein, Assad, and every other major world leader (and most of the minor ones) thought were there and can't now be found.
The Bush administration has been saying lately that "everyone knew he had WMDs" and their apologists everywhere echo this point. In fact, every single expert on the subject disagrees: Blix, Baradei, Tenet, Ritter and others have all said that there was nothing resembling conclusive evidence of renewed WMD programs in Iraq. So the whole "everyone knew" thing is a poor lie. The experts didn't know, and they said so consistently - then and now.
posted by yoz420 at 9:36 AM on March 26, 2004
swerdloff: So Bush has a sense of humor about the fact that the WMDs that Chirac, Clinton, Annan, Gore, Schroeder, Hussein, Assad, and every other major world leader (and most of the minor ones) thought were there and can't now be found.
The Bush administration has been saying lately that "everyone knew he had WMDs" and their apologists everywhere echo this point. In fact, every single expert on the subject disagrees: Blix, Baradei, Tenet, Ritter and others have all said that there was nothing resembling conclusive evidence of renewed WMD programs in Iraq. So the whole "everyone knew" thing is a poor lie. The experts didn't know, and they said so consistently - then and now.
posted by yoz420 at 9:36 AM on March 26, 2004
Please continue piling up on Europe just as your dead soldiers pile up in Iraq while your DEAR LEADER cracks jokes on their backs ... or asking for more. It sure seems like a winning proposition to me.
gd779 is theoretically right. Then again, reaction to 11-M has so far not resulted in gross violations of human rights. Go figure.
posted by magullo at 9:39 AM on March 26, 2004
gd779 is theoretically right. Then again, reaction to 11-M has so far not resulted in gross violations of human rights. Go figure.
posted by magullo at 9:39 AM on March 26, 2004
yoz, perhaps your disagreement comes from the terms:
nothing resembling conclusive evidence of renewed WMD programs in Iraq.
The question of "renewed WMD programs" was not what swerloff was referring to. Every country including the UN thought Iraq had WMD's. There is a difference between those two concepts: WMDs vs. WMD programs. In fact, Iraq declared itself that it had large quantifies of WMD's and the inspectors verified that.
Just wanted to clarify the point so there weren't two ships passing in the night.
Back to the America > everyone else thread.
posted by Seth at 9:41 AM on March 26, 2004
nothing resembling conclusive evidence of renewed WMD programs in Iraq.
The question of "renewed WMD programs" was not what swerloff was referring to. Every country including the UN thought Iraq had WMD's. There is a difference between those two concepts: WMDs vs. WMD programs. In fact, Iraq declared itself that it had large quantifies of WMD's and the inspectors verified that.
Just wanted to clarify the point so there weren't two ships passing in the night.
Back to the America > everyone else thread.
posted by Seth at 9:41 AM on March 26, 2004
I cannot fathom the mind of anyone who could support this man ... What can we do with a nation full of "sheeple" who refuse to see the evil for what it is?
Well, you can start by acknowledging that your fellow Americans are people too and that maybe there are more things in heaven and earth than are dreamed of in your philosophy.
posted by kindall at 9:48 AM on March 26, 2004
Well, you can start by acknowledging that your fellow Americans are people too and that maybe there are more things in heaven and earth than are dreamed of in your philosophy.
posted by kindall at 9:48 AM on March 26, 2004
Somebody clue me in - exactly how thick is champ?
posted by deadcowdan at 10:02 AM on March 26, 2004
posted by deadcowdan at 10:02 AM on March 26, 2004
It is interesting to see the Left calling Bush evil. As I remember the Left, the term "evil" was condemned. The term suggests that a side is "good" and the other is "evil." The Left that I remember would not condone the term.
In fact, I remember a small kulturkampf when Bush used the term "evil" and "evil-doers." Yet, we now see the depth of some people's commitment to the principles of the Left. Because Bush disagrees on certain issues, he is "evil." If someone argues that Bush is in any way "evil" on par with terrorists or Saddam, I have no use for them. Such an argument can only be made by overwhelmingly bad faith or for partisan purposes.
Anyone remember the good days when the Left articulated an ethos? Now it's nothing more than "Bush is evil" and "anything but Bush."
posted by Seth at 10:02 AM on March 26, 2004
In fact, I remember a small kulturkampf when Bush used the term "evil" and "evil-doers." Yet, we now see the depth of some people's commitment to the principles of the Left. Because Bush disagrees on certain issues, he is "evil." If someone argues that Bush is in any way "evil" on par with terrorists or Saddam, I have no use for them. Such an argument can only be made by overwhelmingly bad faith or for partisan purposes.
Anyone remember the good days when the Left articulated an ethos? Now it's nothing more than "Bush is evil" and "anything but Bush."
posted by Seth at 10:02 AM on March 26, 2004
i'm sure that if a democrat were to make a similar joke*, most of metafilter would be laughing and accusing (justifiably so) the republicans that would object of being incapable of elevating themselves out of their own agenda in order to laugh.
and just for the record, i'm a european. and no, i don't like bush, but this FPP is pathetic. Whining on the same subject, over and over, is boring. boring. borinn....
*joke: something that is actually funny, and perhaps, yes, insensitive. something nearly 100% PC cannot be funny (incidentally, the reason why most of american humor is so pathetically unfunny).
posted by bokononito at 10:02 AM on March 26, 2004
and just for the record, i'm a european. and no, i don't like bush, but this FPP is pathetic. Whining on the same subject, over and over, is boring. boring. borinn....
*joke: something that is actually funny, and perhaps, yes, insensitive. something nearly 100% PC cannot be funny (incidentally, the reason why most of american humor is so pathetically unfunny).
posted by bokononito at 10:02 AM on March 26, 2004
Every country including the UN thought Iraq had WMD's.
ha ha. most of the US didn't. Hans Blix certainly didn't. Scott Ritter certainly didn't.
i'd also bet you Iraq didn't think they had WMDs. Iran neither. nor Syria. sure, that's based on no evidence, but what the heck, so was your comment.
In fact, Iraq declared itself that it had large quantifies of WMD's and the inspectors verified that.
doy.
posted by mrgrimm at 10:02 AM on March 26, 2004
ha ha. most of the US didn't. Hans Blix certainly didn't. Scott Ritter certainly didn't.
i'd also bet you Iraq didn't think they had WMDs. Iran neither. nor Syria. sure, that's based on no evidence, but what the heck, so was your comment.
In fact, Iraq declared itself that it had large quantifies of WMD's and the inspectors verified that.
doy.
posted by mrgrimm at 10:02 AM on March 26, 2004
I think you will find those on the other side of the issues are a lot more crass than those who share your views.
What can we do with a nation full of "sheeple" who refuse to see the evil for what it is?
marching like lemmings behind bush.
Way to condescend and generalize and dismiss people you don't agree with. Yeah, if you'd just call more people crass sheeps or lemmings they'll all finally start goosestepping behind you guys.
posted by gyc at 10:03 AM on March 26, 2004
What can we do with a nation full of "sheeple" who refuse to see the evil for what it is?
marching like lemmings behind bush.
Way to condescend and generalize and dismiss people you don't agree with. Yeah, if you'd just call more people crass sheeps or lemmings they'll all finally start goosestepping behind you guys.
posted by gyc at 10:03 AM on March 26, 2004
What screams from TV, radio, and press is interpreted as public opinion. Which of course, it is not.
This, then, in addition to personal aggrandizement, often is the aim of Congressional investigations--
the circus-type ones which take place on stage before television, radio and press. We have permitted
them to take place even though the sole legitimate objective of investigation is to get information
for effective legislation. Douglass Cater, Washington newsman, in his excellent book, The Fourth
Branch of Government, brilliantly shows how many congressional investigations simply are a technique
for making and controlling news. Investigations then often are entertainment spectaculars created to
attract public attention. They are a means of molding national opinion or creating fame for the investigator.
"Cater wrote, "The most notable committee investigations are seldom point of fact 'investigations' They are
planned deliberately to move from a preconceived idea to a predetermined conclusion. The skill and
resourcefulness of the chairman and sizable staff are pitted against any effort to alter its destined course.
Whatever investigating is done takes place well in advance of the public hearing. The hearing is the final
act in the drama. Its intent, by the staging of an arresting spectacle, is to attract public attention, to alarm
or allay, to enlighten , or yes, sometimes to obscure"
posted by clavdivs at 10:04 AM on March 26, 2004
This, then, in addition to personal aggrandizement, often is the aim of Congressional investigations--
the circus-type ones which take place on stage before television, radio and press. We have permitted
them to take place even though the sole legitimate objective of investigation is to get information
for effective legislation. Douglass Cater, Washington newsman, in his excellent book, The Fourth
Branch of Government, brilliantly shows how many congressional investigations simply are a technique
for making and controlling news. Investigations then often are entertainment spectaculars created to
attract public attention. They are a means of molding national opinion or creating fame for the investigator.
"Cater wrote, "The most notable committee investigations are seldom point of fact 'investigations' They are
planned deliberately to move from a preconceived idea to a predetermined conclusion. The skill and
resourcefulness of the chairman and sizable staff are pitted against any effort to alter its destined course.
Whatever investigating is done takes place well in advance of the public hearing. The hearing is the final
act in the drama. Its intent, by the staging of an arresting spectacle, is to attract public attention, to alarm
or allay, to enlighten , or yes, sometimes to obscure"
posted by clavdivs at 10:04 AM on March 26, 2004
From this thread, are you, the world, that afraid of us that you will tell us how to cast our votes? If you don't like Bush tell your leader but telling me is putting me down with your problem.
posted by thomcatspike at 10:06 AM on March 26, 2004
posted by thomcatspike at 10:06 AM on March 26, 2004
What intrigues me is the mindset such joking came from. Is Bush really so arrogant that he thinks he can now winkingly say, "Hey everyone! I just pulled a bait and switch on y'all! Isn't that hilarious?" and have American laughing at the joke on itself?
posted by orange swan at 10:12 AM on March 26, 2004
posted by orange swan at 10:12 AM on March 26, 2004
yeah, I'm as against bush as the next person, but this is weak... and I agree, actually, on Seth's point of calling bush evil. I don't believe in evil, and it worries me when people start using the term to designate their opponents, whoever those opponents are. Bush is not "evil". He's simplistic, aggressive, unaware of common problems, unsympathetic in many ways; I think he's a liar and strongly self-interested, but I don't think he follows satan or anything. I'm perfectly willing to believe he even thinks he is doing the right thing - it's just that he doesn't make the requisite effort to think from the perspective of other people, and to keep his thinking always consistent. he ain't deep.
anyway, what was the context? Was this at one of those "make fun of ourselves" dinners that policy types and journalist types sometimes have? Or was it out of nowhere in an otherwise serious atmosphere? That would make the difference in terms of how tasteless and insensitive this is. If it was an evening of self-depreciating jokes, then I can't even say it was inappropriate.
posted by mdn at 10:15 AM on March 26, 2004
anyway, what was the context? Was this at one of those "make fun of ourselves" dinners that policy types and journalist types sometimes have? Or was it out of nowhere in an otherwise serious atmosphere? That would make the difference in terms of how tasteless and insensitive this is. If it was an evening of self-depreciating jokes, then I can't even say it was inappropriate.
posted by mdn at 10:15 AM on March 26, 2004
It is interesting to see the Left calling Bush evil.
Yes, I remember well the meeting where we elected waltb555 the spokesman for The Left. Then we all gave each other abortions and had gay sex.
posted by jpoulos at 10:17 AM on March 26, 2004
Yes, I remember well the meeting where we elected waltb555 the spokesman for The Left. Then we all gave each other abortions and had gay sex.
posted by jpoulos at 10:17 AM on March 26, 2004
The joke doesn't offend me. What unnerves me is the apparent administration tack - repeated here - that hey, we're America, we'll do what we want and if you don't like it, fuck you.
Real great way to solidify alliances, that is.
posted by kgasmart at 10:29 AM on March 26, 2004
Real great way to solidify alliances, that is.
posted by kgasmart at 10:29 AM on March 26, 2004
I wonder if it makes sense to take advice on how to be a superpower from a continent of failed empires whose only hope of remaining relevant int he next century was to tie their economies together... and are messing that up.
Probably not.
I am leaning towards a Kerry vote myself 'cause I am seriously worried about the FCC/fundie influenced freedom issues and the "Patriot act" crap. In all that I cannot even begin to express how irrelevant the begging of someone not in this country is to me about who we should elect.
posted by soulhuntre at 10:32 AM on March 26, 2004
Probably not.
I am leaning towards a Kerry vote myself 'cause I am seriously worried about the FCC/fundie influenced freedom issues and the "Patriot act" crap. In all that I cannot even begin to express how irrelevant the begging of someone not in this country is to me about who we should elect.
posted by soulhuntre at 10:32 AM on March 26, 2004
"It is a long tradition among the Washington press corps to invite presidents and other politicians to such dinners, during which they make jokes at their own expense."
posted by smackfu at 10:34 AM on March 26, 2004
posted by smackfu at 10:34 AM on March 26, 2004
jpoulos, why was i not invited to that meeting? i've been waiting to give my update on the progress of our plan to take money, college educations, and jobs away from hard-working, god-fearing middle class white people and give them to lazy, jobless black people, illegal latino immigrants, and pagan lesbians.
posted by lord_wolf at 10:40 AM on March 26, 2004
posted by lord_wolf at 10:40 AM on March 26, 2004
Somebody clue me in - exactly how thick is champ?
as thick as irish mashed 'taters
posted by t r a c y at 10:49 AM on March 26, 2004
as thick as irish mashed 'taters
posted by t r a c y at 10:49 AM on March 26, 2004
The left calling Bush evil is the rhetorical equivalent of the right calling liberals evil.
Mike Savage's last book - The Savage Nation: Saving America from the Liberal Assault on Our Borders, Language and Culture
Rush Limbaugh- "Nobody wants to elect a liberal to run this country. That's why Kerry is so paranoid that his voting record is going to be portrayed accurately as liberal."
Sean Hannity's latest book - Deliver Us from Evil : Defeating Terrorism, Despotism, and Liberalism
posted by vito90 at 10:49 AM on March 26, 2004
Mike Savage's last book - The Savage Nation: Saving America from the Liberal Assault on Our Borders, Language and Culture
Rush Limbaugh- "Nobody wants to elect a liberal to run this country. That's why Kerry is so paranoid that his voting record is going to be portrayed accurately as liberal."
Sean Hannity's latest book - Deliver Us from Evil : Defeating Terrorism, Despotism, and Liberalism
posted by vito90 at 10:49 AM on March 26, 2004
In all that I cannot even begin to express how irrelevant the begging of someone not in this country is to me about who we should elect.
Just someone from Europe, who loves being there, who has grown up with and uses American culture (music, cinema, tv, some media, eats American style food, drives a Ford etc etc) and who can't bear to see it be ruined further by Bush.
His making jokes about WMD when he's sent soldiers to their deaths over it caused me to post what I posted.
posted by tomcosgrave at 10:50 AM on March 26, 2004
Just someone from Europe, who loves being there, who has grown up with and uses American culture (music, cinema, tv, some media, eats American style food, drives a Ford etc etc) and who can't bear to see it be ruined further by Bush.
His making jokes about WMD when he's sent soldiers to their deaths over it caused me to post what I posted.
posted by tomcosgrave at 10:50 AM on March 26, 2004
What intrigues me is the mindset such joking came from.
indeed, orange swan. i was amazed that someone who has been so religiously serious about the war on terrorism(tm) would make such a self-deprecating joke. he's basically saying, "we fucked up. oh well. ha ha ha." right?
what the fuck was he thinking? is it a huge gaffe, or am i missing something? how on earth does this go over well with his base, let alone those undecided about him?
maybe he is that stupid after all.
posted by mrgrimm at 10:50 AM on March 26, 2004
indeed, orange swan. i was amazed that someone who has been so religiously serious about the war on terrorism(tm) would make such a self-deprecating joke. he's basically saying, "we fucked up. oh well. ha ha ha." right?
what the fuck was he thinking? is it a huge gaffe, or am i missing something? how on earth does this go over well with his base, let alone those undecided about him?
maybe he is that stupid after all.
posted by mrgrimm at 10:50 AM on March 26, 2004
jpoulos, why was i not invited to that meeting?
you were there, lord_wolf. you were just so high--from shooting heroin with government needles and smoking babies' stem cells--you don't remember.
posted by jpoulos at 10:51 AM on March 26, 2004
you were there, lord_wolf. you were just so high--from shooting heroin with government needles and smoking babies' stem cells--you don't remember.
posted by jpoulos at 10:51 AM on March 26, 2004
Seth:The question of "renewed WMD programs" was not what swerloff was referring to. Every country including the UN thought Iraq had WMD's. There is a difference between those two concepts: WMDs vs. WMD programs. In fact, Iraq declared itself that it had large quantifies of WMD's and the inspectors verified that.
I'm sorry, let me correct my previous statement:
Blix, Baradei, Tenet, Ritter and others have all said that there was nothing resembling conclusive evidence of renewed WMD programs or significant amounts of WMDs in Iraq
Here is a quote from Ritter's statement:
"we did ascertain a 90-95 percent level of verified disarmament. This figure takes into account ... the majority of the weapons and agent produced by Iraq"
I challenge you to show otherwise.
posted by yoz420 at 10:53 AM on March 26, 2004
I'm sorry, let me correct my previous statement:
Blix, Baradei, Tenet, Ritter and others have all said that there was nothing resembling conclusive evidence of renewed WMD programs or significant amounts of WMDs in Iraq
Here is a quote from Ritter's statement:
"we did ascertain a 90-95 percent level of verified disarmament. This figure takes into account ... the majority of the weapons and agent produced by Iraq"
I challenge you to show otherwise.
posted by yoz420 at 10:53 AM on March 26, 2004
I wonder if it makes sense to take advice on how to be a superpower from a continent of failed empires whose only hope of remaining relevant int he next century was to tie their economies together... and are messing that up.
tomcosgrave != europe
also, I often hear how europe isn't "relevant" anymore. can someone tell me what that means? I think it's a code word for, "blowing up countries."
and lastly, I too missed the meeting! it was out of state and I couldn't afford to go after I had given away all of my income to lazy poor (kinda redundant, huh?) people on drugs, coincidentally while I was on drugs myself.
posted by mcsweetie at 10:57 AM on March 26, 2004
tomcosgrave != europe
also, I often hear how europe isn't "relevant" anymore. can someone tell me what that means? I think it's a code word for, "blowing up countries."
and lastly, I too missed the meeting! it was out of state and I couldn't afford to go after I had given away all of my income to lazy poor (kinda redundant, huh?) people on drugs, coincidentally while I was on drugs myself.
posted by mcsweetie at 10:57 AM on March 26, 2004
Be thankful kablam graced you with his genuine ugly american rant. You don't have to wonder what kind of intellectually challenged, self absorbed asshole would vote for another intellectually challenged, self absorbed asshole after he has so thoughtfully laid it out for you. This is what we're up against. These people are our neighbors, our co-workers, and some of us have a few of these bad apples scattered areound the tree.
They were lucky enough to be born in a prosperous and powerful country, and they use their fat stubby fingers to stuff their greasy faces with the fat of the land, leaving little room for humility.
There are plenty of us in this country who are thankful to be here; yet see ourselves as citizens of the world as well, with the sense of history and collective responsibility for the stewardship of the planet that that entails.
And we throw better parties.
posted by 2sheets at 10:59 AM on March 26, 2004
They were lucky enough to be born in a prosperous and powerful country, and they use their fat stubby fingers to stuff their greasy faces with the fat of the land, leaving little room for humility.
There are plenty of us in this country who are thankful to be here; yet see ourselves as citizens of the world as well, with the sense of history and collective responsibility for the stewardship of the planet that that entails.
And we throw better parties.
posted by 2sheets at 10:59 AM on March 26, 2004
A slide showed Mr Bush in the Oval office, leaning to look under a piece of furniture. "Those weapons of mass destruction have got to be here somewhere," he told the audience, drawing applause.
Another slide showed him peering into another part of the office, "Nope, no weapons over there," he said, laughing. "Maybe under here," he said, as a third slide was shown.
Believe me. There are a whole ton of ways for this particular idiot President to be self-deprecating, without smirking and cheapening the lives he and his supporters snuffed out in Iraq, on a fool's errand.
"Those millions of jobs I promised Americans have got to be here somewhere."
"My National Guard evaluations have got to be here somewhere."
"Condoleeza Rice's public, sworn testimony about events leading up to 9/11 have got to be here somewhere."
"My own public, sworn testimony (if I can spare an hour) about events leading up to 9/11 have got to be here somewhere."
"The supposed crackdown on corporate crime I keep lamely talking about has got to be here somewhere."
"A rational and ethical policy about conflict of interest (like Cheney receiving deferred salary from Halliburton) has got to be here somewhere."
"Those disenfranchised Florida voters have got to be here somewhere."
"Adequate health care for military personnel that my administration is gutting has got to be here somewhere."
"The public records from my tenure as governor of Texas, that I spirited off to my father's presidential library to delay release, have got to be here somewhere."
"The padded kneeguards I use when I'm talking with my corporate sponsors have got to be here somewhere."
"Civil rights for all Americans, including gays, have got to be here somewhere."
"The correct accounting on Medicare (and not the lies my administration provided) just have to be around here somewhere."
"The administration coward who outed Valerie Plame has just got to be here somewhere."
"Those documents from Cheney's Energy Task Force just have to around here somewhere."
"Those budget surpluses we had under a Democratic president just have to be here somewhere."
"My credibility has to be here somewhere."
And so on....it's pretty easy, AWOL. Call me if you need some more suggestions.
posted by fold_and_mutilate at 11:00 AM on March 26, 2004
Another slide showed him peering into another part of the office, "Nope, no weapons over there," he said, laughing. "Maybe under here," he said, as a third slide was shown.
Believe me. There are a whole ton of ways for this particular idiot President to be self-deprecating, without smirking and cheapening the lives he and his supporters snuffed out in Iraq, on a fool's errand.
"Those millions of jobs I promised Americans have got to be here somewhere."
"My National Guard evaluations have got to be here somewhere."
"Condoleeza Rice's public, sworn testimony about events leading up to 9/11 have got to be here somewhere."
"My own public, sworn testimony (if I can spare an hour) about events leading up to 9/11 have got to be here somewhere."
"The supposed crackdown on corporate crime I keep lamely talking about has got to be here somewhere."
"A rational and ethical policy about conflict of interest (like Cheney receiving deferred salary from Halliburton) has got to be here somewhere."
"Those disenfranchised Florida voters have got to be here somewhere."
"Adequate health care for military personnel that my administration is gutting has got to be here somewhere."
"The public records from my tenure as governor of Texas, that I spirited off to my father's presidential library to delay release, have got to be here somewhere."
"The padded kneeguards I use when I'm talking with my corporate sponsors have got to be here somewhere."
"Civil rights for all Americans, including gays, have got to be here somewhere."
"The correct accounting on Medicare (and not the lies my administration provided) just have to be around here somewhere."
"The administration coward who outed Valerie Plame has just got to be here somewhere."
"Those documents from Cheney's Energy Task Force just have to around here somewhere."
"Those budget surpluses we had under a Democratic president just have to be here somewhere."
"My credibility has to be here somewhere."
And so on....it's pretty easy, AWOL. Call me if you need some more suggestions.
posted by fold_and_mutilate at 11:00 AM on March 26, 2004
Oh. And I forgot this....
America. Get rid of him, for all your own sakes (and I include conservatives in this). He has to go. This American isn't asking; and he isn't actually begging. But European tomcosgrave is absolutely right. This buffoon is an embarrassment and a disaster for America, and the world.
posted by fold_and_mutilate at 11:05 AM on March 26, 2004
America. Get rid of him, for all your own sakes (and I include conservatives in this). He has to go. This American isn't asking; and he isn't actually begging. But European tomcosgrave is absolutely right. This buffoon is an embarrassment and a disaster for America, and the world.
posted by fold_and_mutilate at 11:05 AM on March 26, 2004
Clarification:
Just someone from Europe, who loves being there
Who loves being in the US.
And to add - I spent three months there right out of school, as an intern in a software company in Boston, the company that gave me a start in the industry in which I work. I was offered a job by that company a couple of years later and was eager to emigrate and take up their offer, but the INS said no, on account of there being enough Americans able to do the job already (I didn't have a university degree either, so that settled it against my favour).
I've spent a fair bit of time in the US absorbing the totally different culture it has compared to Europe. Like Europe, it has its bad side, but its upsides are great. I was in the US on 9/11. I felt what America felt that day.
So, like I said, I love America and cannot bear to see Bush and his administration destroy it through their arrogance and just plain not caring about the people, American and otherwise that they affect. Hence my post.
And we throw better parties.
I can't disagree with that! Especially parties thrown or attented by MeFi'ers. They're the best.
posted by tomcosgrave at 11:09 AM on March 26, 2004
Just someone from Europe, who loves being there
Who loves being in the US.
And to add - I spent three months there right out of school, as an intern in a software company in Boston, the company that gave me a start in the industry in which I work. I was offered a job by that company a couple of years later and was eager to emigrate and take up their offer, but the INS said no, on account of there being enough Americans able to do the job already (I didn't have a university degree either, so that settled it against my favour).
I've spent a fair bit of time in the US absorbing the totally different culture it has compared to Europe. Like Europe, it has its bad side, but its upsides are great. I was in the US on 9/11. I felt what America felt that day.
So, like I said, I love America and cannot bear to see Bush and his administration destroy it through their arrogance and just plain not caring about the people, American and otherwise that they affect. Hence my post.
And we throw better parties.
I can't disagree with that! Especially parties thrown or attented by MeFi'ers. They're the best.
posted by tomcosgrave at 11:09 AM on March 26, 2004
Once again, for those of you who didn't get it the first time. The US could not find WMDs, *or* announce that there were no WMDs, because that would be the de facto end of the UN resolution that the US used to enter Iraq in the first place.
Even now, if the US were to "find" WMDs, or announce that there were "no" WMDs, by the rules of the resolution, they would have to pick up and leave Iraq, NOW. Not wait until there was a government, or anything, just leave.
But when there is a de facto Iraqi government, then the US can cheerfully blow off the UN resolution and remain in country at the behest of that government.
You never really figured this out, now did you?
Never believe those whose names have become synonymous with failure: "You really Blixed that up, didn't you?" "You really stepped on your Blix!"
And don't trust the French, ever.
posted by kablam at 11:12 AM on March 26, 2004
Even now, if the US were to "find" WMDs, or announce that there were "no" WMDs, by the rules of the resolution, they would have to pick up and leave Iraq, NOW. Not wait until there was a government, or anything, just leave.
But when there is a de facto Iraqi government, then the US can cheerfully blow off the UN resolution and remain in country at the behest of that government.
You never really figured this out, now did you?
Never believe those whose names have become synonymous with failure: "You really Blixed that up, didn't you?" "You really stepped on your Blix!"
And don't trust the French, ever.
posted by kablam at 11:12 AM on March 26, 2004
Somebody tell Kerry we found those foreign leaders. They're right here at MeFi. Let's set up a NetMeeting.
I understand what Bush was trying to do, defuse a criticism with a little self deprecating humor. For example, I think Kerry could have done the same thing re "foreign leaders" (look, French guys in my closet!) on SNL or something, and it would be funny, because that whole business was silly to begin with.
I think.
That's where you get into trouble with humor. The Bushies obviously think that the whole "where's the WMDS" is a bogus criticism and if they make light of it, most people will laugh with them. Maybe some will, but it seems like a miscalculation.
In and of itself, the joking doesn't bother me, personally. Sometimes jokes misfire. But he's the president, and he ought to know better, or have people who know better, so this calls his judgment into question and it reveals something about how he feels about the subject -- it doesn't matter to him.
What he forgets is that a lot of people, including me and any number of centrist types, tentatively backed taking out Saddam (though, preferably with full UN support) because of the WMD's. And it turns out it was a lie. Not a misunderstanding. A lie. You shouldn't joke about how you lied to everybody.
I'm not really shocked or outraged, but I applaud those who are willing to work themselves into a lather and turn this into a partisan issue. Anyone this politically tone deaf -- not to mention morally and diplomatically tone deaf -- does not deserve to be president.
But in the words of W., who cares what I think? I'm just a voter, and the votes didn't count last time, did they.
posted by Slagman at 11:13 AM on March 26, 2004
I understand what Bush was trying to do, defuse a criticism with a little self deprecating humor. For example, I think Kerry could have done the same thing re "foreign leaders" (look, French guys in my closet!) on SNL or something, and it would be funny, because that whole business was silly to begin with.
I think.
That's where you get into trouble with humor. The Bushies obviously think that the whole "where's the WMDS" is a bogus criticism and if they make light of it, most people will laugh with them. Maybe some will, but it seems like a miscalculation.
In and of itself, the joking doesn't bother me, personally. Sometimes jokes misfire. But he's the president, and he ought to know better, or have people who know better, so this calls his judgment into question and it reveals something about how he feels about the subject -- it doesn't matter to him.
What he forgets is that a lot of people, including me and any number of centrist types, tentatively backed taking out Saddam (though, preferably with full UN support) because of the WMD's. And it turns out it was a lie. Not a misunderstanding. A lie. You shouldn't joke about how you lied to everybody.
I'm not really shocked or outraged, but I applaud those who are willing to work themselves into a lather and turn this into a partisan issue. Anyone this politically tone deaf -- not to mention morally and diplomatically tone deaf -- does not deserve to be president.
But in the words of W., who cares what I think? I'm just a voter, and the votes didn't count last time, did they.
posted by Slagman at 11:13 AM on March 26, 2004
Kablam
Since we invaded Iraq without UN authorization, what makes you think we would suddenly leave now?
And if you actually were paying attention to developments there, you'd know that we are anxious to leave and let anyone else take over. The UN isn't interested. Neither are the allies we have completely disrespected.
posted by Slagman at 11:18 AM on March 26, 2004
Since we invaded Iraq without UN authorization, what makes you think we would suddenly leave now?
And if you actually were paying attention to developments there, you'd know that we are anxious to leave and let anyone else take over. The UN isn't interested. Neither are the allies we have completely disrespected.
posted by Slagman at 11:18 AM on March 26, 2004
Kablam -- are you saying a conclusive announcement can (and will) be forthcoming after the withdrawl?
No snark here. I simply haven't heard this theory and would like to know more.
posted by weston at 11:30 AM on March 26, 2004
No snark here. I simply haven't heard this theory and would like to know more.
posted by weston at 11:30 AM on March 26, 2004
Once again, for those of you who didn't get it the first time. The US could not find WMDs, *or* announce that there were no WMDs, because that would be the de facto end of the UN resolution that the US used to enter Iraq in the first place.
or in other words, sometimes you have to play pretend or you won't get to invade any countries. I guess this is the kind of thing richard clarke was referring to when he inferred that politics trump morality.
Never believe those whose names have become synonymous with failure: "You really Blixed that up, didn't you?" "You really stepped on your Blix!"
does anyone other than crazy right wingers actually say "blixed?"
And don't trust the French, ever.
in my head I keep a list of people whom I have judged as no longer having anything of interest to say (and it isn't just populated by bush supporters). I put you on that list long ago because in the middle of a thread you posted a link to the 2000 democratic campaign platform and called it the platform of idolaters (adulterers?) and liars etc etc (I can't remember verbatim, or work up the resolve to find the offending link). anyways, I guess what I'm trying to say is that I shouldn'tve removed you from that list.
posted by mcsweetie at 11:31 AM on March 26, 2004
or in other words, sometimes you have to play pretend or you won't get to invade any countries. I guess this is the kind of thing richard clarke was referring to when he inferred that politics trump morality.
Never believe those whose names have become synonymous with failure: "You really Blixed that up, didn't you?" "You really stepped on your Blix!"
does anyone other than crazy right wingers actually say "blixed?"
And don't trust the French, ever.
in my head I keep a list of people whom I have judged as no longer having anything of interest to say (and it isn't just populated by bush supporters). I put you on that list long ago because in the middle of a thread you posted a link to the 2000 democratic campaign platform and called it the platform of idolaters (adulterers?) and liars etc etc (I can't remember verbatim, or work up the resolve to find the offending link). anyways, I guess what I'm trying to say is that I shouldn'tve removed you from that list.
posted by mcsweetie at 11:31 AM on March 26, 2004
I am really looking forward to the election, cause I have no clue who is going to win. It is like being in the eye of a hurricane. I am finding myself in with the popular crowd (re: politics in America) for all the wrong reasons, but it is still kinda cool anyway.
Tom, I love you, but there was no way this was ever going to be a productive thread. You made a full moon, and the werewolves came out to play.
posted by thirteen at 11:33 AM on March 26, 2004
Tom, I love you, but there was no way this was ever going to be a productive thread. You made a full moon, and the werewolves came out to play.
posted by thirteen at 11:33 AM on March 26, 2004
kablam can fuck off and die.
One unfortunate affect of the US being isolated is there are many people without passports, who are content to allow leaders to exploit ignorance in return for power. You may have seen evidence of this in the current American president.
posted by the fire you left me at 11:34 AM on March 26, 2004
One unfortunate affect of the US being isolated is there are many people without passports, who are content to allow leaders to exploit ignorance in return for power. You may have seen evidence of this in the current American president.
posted by the fire you left me at 11:34 AM on March 26, 2004
What I never seem to understand is this: Americans hate the French. They go on and on about how if it weren't for America, Europe would be speaking German. They keep saying we saved their collective butts.
Maybe my history is wrong, but who was it who helped us against the English in the Revolutionary War? Who helped us secure this country for freedom? I remember some Lafayette guy. Where was he from?
posted by Dantien at 11:43 AM on March 26, 2004
Maybe my history is wrong, but who was it who helped us against the English in the Revolutionary War? Who helped us secure this country for freedom? I remember some Lafayette guy. Where was he from?
posted by Dantien at 11:43 AM on March 26, 2004
they would have to pick up and leave Iraq, NOW
This is truly perverse. After everything about not needing "a permission slip", you think that the United States would actually find WMD and pretend that they had not in order to garner international approval?
The only way the United States has a hope of reviving its standing in the international community is finding WMD in Iraq. Preferably large, scary quantities of them.
posted by 4easypayments at 11:45 AM on March 26, 2004
This is truly perverse. After everything about not needing "a permission slip", you think that the United States would actually find WMD and pretend that they had not in order to garner international approval?
The only way the United States has a hope of reviving its standing in the international community is finding WMD in Iraq. Preferably large, scary quantities of them.
posted by 4easypayments at 11:45 AM on March 26, 2004
I wonder if it makes sense to take advice on how to be a superpower from a continent of failed empires whose only hope of remaining relevant int he next century was to tie their economies together....
I don't think Native Americans would appreciate you calling them "failed empires." But you have a point about NAFTA ;-)
posted by hyperizer at 11:47 AM on March 26, 2004
I don't think Native Americans would appreciate you calling them "failed empires." But you have a point about NAFTA ;-)
posted by hyperizer at 11:47 AM on March 26, 2004
Just when I thought this president couldn't get any more embarassing.
posted by homunculus at 12:02 PM on March 26, 2004
posted by homunculus at 12:02 PM on March 26, 2004
Maybe my history is wrong, but who was it who helped us against the English in the Revolutionary War?
If it weren't for the French, we'd all be speaking English right now.</obvious joke>
posted by jpoulos at 12:02 PM on March 26, 2004
If it weren't for the French, we'd all be speaking English right now.</obvious joke>
posted by jpoulos at 12:02 PM on March 26, 2004
2sheets:
Be thankful kablam graced you with his genuine ugly american rant. You don't have to wonder what kind of intellectually challenged, self absorbed asshole would vote for another intellectually challenged, self absorbed asshole after he has so thoughtfully laid it out for you. This is what we're up against. These people are our neighbors, our co-workers, and some of us have a few of these bad apples scattered areound the tree.
They were lucky enough to be born in a prosperous and powerful country, and they use their fat stubby fingers to stuff their greasy faces with the fat of the land, leaving little room for humility.
There are plenty of us in this country who are thankful to be here; yet see ourselves as citizens of the world as well, with the sense of history and collective responsibility for the stewardship of the planet that that entails.
And we throw better parties.
AMEN!
posted by jasenlee at 12:12 PM on March 26, 2004
Be thankful kablam graced you with his genuine ugly american rant. You don't have to wonder what kind of intellectually challenged, self absorbed asshole would vote for another intellectually challenged, self absorbed asshole after he has so thoughtfully laid it out for you. This is what we're up against. These people are our neighbors, our co-workers, and some of us have a few of these bad apples scattered areound the tree.
They were lucky enough to be born in a prosperous and powerful country, and they use their fat stubby fingers to stuff their greasy faces with the fat of the land, leaving little room for humility.
There are plenty of us in this country who are thankful to be here; yet see ourselves as citizens of the world as well, with the sense of history and collective responsibility for the stewardship of the planet that that entails.
And we throw better parties.
AMEN!
posted by jasenlee at 12:12 PM on March 26, 2004
Even now, if the US were to "find" WMDs, or announce that there were "no" WMDs, by the rules of the resolution, they would have to pick up and leave Iraq, NOW.
That's the "dumbest" thing I've ever "heard".
posted by ook at 12:23 PM on March 26, 2004
That's the "dumbest" thing I've ever "heard".
posted by ook at 12:23 PM on March 26, 2004
I've been trying to figure out what the Clinton equivelent of the WMD joke would be. These are what I thought of...
A picture of Monica Lewinski's blurred breasts, "oops, how did that get in there."
A picture of Hillary shredding whitewater files, same comment.
A picture of Bill pointing a gun at Vince Foster as he has sex with Hillary.
A picture of Al Gore accepting bags with dollar signs on them from Chinese leaders.
Maybe it's because I'm a flaming liberal, but I don't think any of those 'equivelents' are nearly as sick as Bush's joke. The Foster one is beyond over the top, but 500+ dead, 300+ wounded, $87 billion + more to come, etc. etc. I.... I just can't think of someting comparable.
posted by graventy at 12:35 PM on March 26, 2004
A picture of Monica Lewinski's blurred breasts, "oops, how did that get in there."
A picture of Hillary shredding whitewater files, same comment.
A picture of Bill pointing a gun at Vince Foster as he has sex with Hillary.
A picture of Al Gore accepting bags with dollar signs on them from Chinese leaders.
Maybe it's because I'm a flaming liberal, but I don't think any of those 'equivelents' are nearly as sick as Bush's joke. The Foster one is beyond over the top, but 500+ dead, 300+ wounded, $87 billion + more to come, etc. etc. I.... I just can't think of someting comparable.
posted by graventy at 12:35 PM on March 26, 2004
Even now, if the US were to "find" WMDs, or announce that there were "no" WMDs, by the rules of the resolution, they would have to pick up and leave Iraq, NOW.
So you think the president is lying too, just in the other direction?
posted by thirteen at 12:35 PM on March 26, 2004
Imagine if Lyndon Johnson had joked about the trumped-up Gulf of Tonkin incident that he deceitfully used as a rationale for U.S. military action in Vietnam: "Who knew that fish had torpedoes?" Or if Ronald Reagan appeared at a correspondents event following the truck-bombing at the Marines barracks in Beirut--which killed over 200 American servicemen--and said, "Guess we forgot to put in a stop light." Or if Clinton had come out after the bombing of Serbia--during which U.S. bombs errantly destroyed the Chinese embassy and killed several people there--and said, "The problem is, those embassies--they all look alike."
posted by homunculus at 12:44 PM on March 26, 2004
posted by homunculus at 12:44 PM on March 26, 2004
500+ dead, 300+ wounded
I think you meant 3000+ wounded. And that doesn't count UK troops or civilian contractors and journalists. Plus, the estimated death toll for Iraqi civilians has topped 10,000. That's what, 3 World Trade Centers? Yes indeed, Bush's joke was hilarious!
posted by hyperizer at 12:49 PM on March 26, 2004
I think you meant 3000+ wounded. And that doesn't count UK troops or civilian contractors and journalists. Plus, the estimated death toll for Iraqi civilians has topped 10,000. That's what, 3 World Trade Centers? Yes indeed, Bush's joke was hilarious!
posted by hyperizer at 12:49 PM on March 26, 2004
The US could not find WMDs, *or* announce that there were no WMDs, because that would be the de facto end of the UN resolution that the US used to enter Iraq in the first place.So what you're saying is "If you invade a country under false pretenses, you need to keep up that pretense until your puppet regime invites you to stay"...is that it?
Even now, if the US were to "find" WMDs, or announce that there were "no" WMDs, by the rules of the resolution, they would have to pick up and leave Iraq, NOW. Not wait until there was a government, or anything, just leave.
But when there is a de facto Iraqi government, then the US can cheerfully blow off
every other major world leader (and most of the minor ones) thought were there and can't now be found.Of course, none of them used that unconfirmed suspicion as a pretext for war.
posted by adamrice at 12:56 PM on March 26, 2004
I think you meant 3000+ wounded. And that doesn't count UK troops or civilian contractors and journalists. Plus, the estimated death toll for Iraqi civilians has topped 10,000. That's what, 3 World Trade Centers? Yes indeed, Bush's joke was hilarious!
and, you'll love this...we still didn't manage to catch the people responsible! Wotta knee slapper!
posted by jonmc at 12:59 PM on March 26, 2004
and, you'll love this...we still didn't manage to catch the people responsible! Wotta knee slapper!
posted by jonmc at 12:59 PM on March 26, 2004
2sheets, especially: Ah, the ugly American rant. Yes, I will embrace ugly Americans, all those nasty PWTs descended from Scots Borderers; those obnoxious Texans who turn up their noses at quiche; those tobacco growing, NASCAR and WWF loving southerners; ALL of those filthy, un-European, NON-citizens of the world, empire building, bourgeoisie, militaristic gun nuts who just cannot ABIDE pansy-assed liberals from New England and sniveling in any form.
Oh yes, about that empire building stuff. Isn't it ironic that the people you deride so much are so good at it? That mass murdering tyrants fall before their swords like ugly little weeds? That 50 million more people than before G. Bush (43) now can thank Europe for getting the heck out of the way and letting America save them from a living Hell?
John Kerry will lose because he is a Yankee. And though I was so-so about Bush before, now I will have to confess that he is doing a bang-up job, and hope he continues to exterminate the world's cockroaches with elan, while depriving their French, German and Russian backers of their much-craved lucre from backdoor bribes and treachery.
We are fortunate indeed that such people as ugly Americans are in the majority. They are the intestinal fortitude of the entire planet.
posted by kablam at 1:08 PM on March 26, 2004
Oh yes, about that empire building stuff. Isn't it ironic that the people you deride so much are so good at it? That mass murdering tyrants fall before their swords like ugly little weeds? That 50 million more people than before G. Bush (43) now can thank Europe for getting the heck out of the way and letting America save them from a living Hell?
John Kerry will lose because he is a Yankee. And though I was so-so about Bush before, now I will have to confess that he is doing a bang-up job, and hope he continues to exterminate the world's cockroaches with elan, while depriving their French, German and Russian backers of their much-craved lucre from backdoor bribes and treachery.
We are fortunate indeed that such people as ugly Americans are in the majority. They are the intestinal fortitude of the entire planet.
posted by kablam at 1:08 PM on March 26, 2004
Wow, kablam. Don't know you, buddy, but I have to say the proof is fairly conclusive that you're retarded. Please trade in your MeFi license for a yellow helmet and short-bus pass post haste.
posted by precocious at 1:10 PM on March 26, 2004
posted by precocious at 1:10 PM on March 26, 2004
My dislike for George W. Bush as a president and a politician takes a back seat to no other man's or woman's dislike for the guy.
And. . .I think that his schitck at that dinner was very funny. I like the tradition of the gridiron dinner, whoever the sitting president is.
posted by Danf at 1:14 PM on March 26, 2004
And. . .I think that his schitck at that dinner was very funny. I like the tradition of the gridiron dinner, whoever the sitting president is.
posted by Danf at 1:14 PM on March 26, 2004
A US marine and at least five Iraqis have been killed in heavy fighting between US soldiers and Iraqi insurgents in the town of Falluja.
ROFL!
posted by homunculus at 1:26 PM on March 26, 2004
ROFL!
posted by homunculus at 1:26 PM on March 26, 2004
Where's a link to a streaming video of the show? I remember when Clinton did an hysterical one of him puttering around the White House in 2000 it was everywhere.
Would like to review and judge for myself.
posted by darren at 1:29 PM on March 26, 2004
Would like to review and judge for myself.
posted by darren at 1:29 PM on March 26, 2004
Jeez kablam, you've really bought into all the sterotypes. I used to live in Texas (Austin) and it was a haven for highly educated liberals and progressives. I currently live in the South in one of it's biggest cities (Atlanta) - where the majority of the people in the metro area are African-American and the city has a huge gay community. Both of these areas are a lot more complicated than you represent them as being ...
posted by rks404 at 1:36 PM on March 26, 2004
posted by rks404 at 1:36 PM on March 26, 2004
Has the Bush Junta absolutely no semblance of good judgement?
How blind and reckless do you have to be to make jokes about an illegal war that has killed thousands, waged on lies, that you are entirely responsible for?
What a complete fucktard.
posted by Blue Stone at 1:36 PM on March 26, 2004
How blind and reckless do you have to be to make jokes about an illegal war that has killed thousands, waged on lies, that you are entirely responsible for?
What a complete fucktard.
posted by Blue Stone at 1:36 PM on March 26, 2004
The danger in expecting all presidents to be self-deprecating, to be on SNL, to play knowing caricatures of themselves in TV satire fashion, etc., is that you stop thinking of them as having any real power. You become detached from the reality of power and governance. I see the reaction from some here, that it was all just disarmingly funny and charming, etc., to be so detached.
posted by raysmj at 1:39 PM on March 26, 2004
posted by raysmj at 1:39 PM on March 26, 2004
We are fortunate indeed that such people as ugly Americans are in the majority. They are the intestinal fortitude of the entire planet.
Damn, kablam, but you do have a wonderful way with words. Well said.
posted by hama7 at 1:58 PM on March 26, 2004
Damn, kablam, but you do have a wonderful way with words. Well said.
posted by hama7 at 1:58 PM on March 26, 2004
I missed the meeting because I was up in a tree sharing my last granola bar with a spotted oil.
And would you all please stop saying, "Americans hate the French." Stop it. You are only allowed to say "I hate the French."
I myself love the French, with the exception of a few snotty waiters. I love the French language, French cheeses, French wine, French films, French kissing, and French cooking. And Lafayette was wonderful and there are many American cities named after him.
As to whether or not Bush was funny/appropriate. I don't care what the venue was, The President is always The President (except maybe in his bedroom with the doors closed) and it was highly inappropriate; joking about the war he created seems the opposite of presidential. Was it funny? Not to me. Maybe it seemed funny to his staff.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 2:02 PM on March 26, 2004
And would you all please stop saying, "Americans hate the French." Stop it. You are only allowed to say "I hate the French."
I myself love the French, with the exception of a few snotty waiters. I love the French language, French cheeses, French wine, French films, French kissing, and French cooking. And Lafayette was wonderful and there are many American cities named after him.
As to whether or not Bush was funny/appropriate. I don't care what the venue was, The President is always The President (except maybe in his bedroom with the doors closed) and it was highly inappropriate; joking about the war he created seems the opposite of presidential. Was it funny? Not to me. Maybe it seemed funny to his staff.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 2:02 PM on March 26, 2004
If you don't like Bush tell your leader but telling me is putting me down with your problem.
I have. Several times. But my leader allowed Bush to land his troops and munitions in my country when they crossed the Atlantic on the way to the Gulf, yet my leader says he agrees with me in not supporting the war, and was on the same wavelength as the protestors who marched in the streets of Dublin this time last year, protesting the landing of US soldiers and munitions, as well as the war itself.
But short of begging I don't know what to do, aside from begging Americans not to vote for Bush this November.
I'm involved with politics here to hopefully democratically defeat the ruling parties at the next elections and replace our leaders with ones who actually listen to the majority of their citizens, and then respect their opinions.
People have said it on Metafilter before, and they'd be right - Europe is far from perfect - all you need to do is to come to Ireland and you'd see it for yourselves, never mind France or Germany. But work is afoot to hopefully make it a more democratic place to reside in, than it is now, led by people that respect their citizens, that listen and act on the opinions of those citizens..
And to the people (Kablam and hama7 amongst them) who decry Europe and consider it utterly unworthy, I hope you're going to be removing the Statue of Liberty from the harbour of New York. It was after all, built in France and given as a gift to the United States of America by the French, as a token of solidarity between the French revolution and the US revoluton. I'd also hope that you won't forget James Hoban, the Irishman architected the White House, and who then oversaw its rebuilding in 1814. I trust you'll be calling for its demolition. He was also a supervising architect of the Capitol. I trust you'll be calling for that to be demolished as well.
posted by tomcosgrave at 2:11 PM on March 26, 2004
I have. Several times. But my leader allowed Bush to land his troops and munitions in my country when they crossed the Atlantic on the way to the Gulf, yet my leader says he agrees with me in not supporting the war, and was on the same wavelength as the protestors who marched in the streets of Dublin this time last year, protesting the landing of US soldiers and munitions, as well as the war itself.
But short of begging I don't know what to do, aside from begging Americans not to vote for Bush this November.
I'm involved with politics here to hopefully democratically defeat the ruling parties at the next elections and replace our leaders with ones who actually listen to the majority of their citizens, and then respect their opinions.
People have said it on Metafilter before, and they'd be right - Europe is far from perfect - all you need to do is to come to Ireland and you'd see it for yourselves, never mind France or Germany. But work is afoot to hopefully make it a more democratic place to reside in, than it is now, led by people that respect their citizens, that listen and act on the opinions of those citizens..
And to the people (Kablam and hama7 amongst them) who decry Europe and consider it utterly unworthy, I hope you're going to be removing the Statue of Liberty from the harbour of New York. It was after all, built in France and given as a gift to the United States of America by the French, as a token of solidarity between the French revolution and the US revoluton. I'd also hope that you won't forget James Hoban, the Irishman architected the White House, and who then oversaw its rebuilding in 1814. I trust you'll be calling for its demolition. He was also a supervising architect of the Capitol. I trust you'll be calling for that to be demolished as well.
posted by tomcosgrave at 2:11 PM on March 26, 2004
They are the intestinal fortitude of the entire planet.
The colon of western civilisation.
posted by inpHilltr8r at 2:23 PM on March 26, 2004
The colon of western civilisation.
posted by inpHilltr8r at 2:23 PM on March 26, 2004
There's a special place in hell reserved for the Bushes and those who support them. May you all rot.
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 2:32 PM on March 26, 2004
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 2:32 PM on March 26, 2004
And don't trust the French, ever.
Wow, kablam. Don't know you, buddy, but I have to say the proof is fairly conclusive that you're retarded.
There's a special place in hell reserved for the Bushes and those who support them. May you all rot.
kablam can fuck off and die.
There's a lot of love in this room right now.
posted by dhoyt at 3:31 PM on March 26, 2004
Wow, kablam. Don't know you, buddy, but I have to say the proof is fairly conclusive that you're retarded.
There's a special place in hell reserved for the Bushes and those who support them. May you all rot.
kablam can fuck off and die.
There's a lot of love in this room right now.
posted by dhoyt at 3:31 PM on March 26, 2004
From the Wartime President MIA WaPo article:
What would a "wartime president" have done this week, as a bipartisan commission's public hearings on the Sept. 11 tragedy were being engulfed by political bickering?
I like to think that this hypothetical leader would have found a way to rise above the fray and unite the country: He would have embraced the commission's work, forthrightly admitted his own mistakes, sent his national security adviser to testify publicly -- and insisted that the security of the United States was too important to be buried in election-year squabbles.
President Bush and his White House handlers did pretty much the opposite. They fanned the flames of partisan debate; when asked awkward questions, they stonewalled; rather than testify before the cameras, national security adviser Condoleezza Rice spent part of her Wednesday afternoon dishing dirt to reporters about a commission witness who had criticized the president.
Bush flunked the test, in other words...
A "wartime president" would find ways to rise above this partisan din and speak to the country, calmly and convincingly. He would take the blame onto his own shoulders, rather than leaving it for subordinates to admit mistakes. In his speeches and by his very body language, he would defuse the apprehension and anger people feel in such stressful times.
For reasons that are hard to fathom, Bush still lacks that reassuring touch. More than three years into his presidency, he still looks uneasy in many of his public appearances; he still lacks the grace and charm of a Ronald Reagan that would disarm critics. In recent months, he has seemed oddly off-key even on the issues that matter to him most, such as terrorism.
posted by squirrel at 3:43 PM on March 26, 2004
What would a "wartime president" have done this week, as a bipartisan commission's public hearings on the Sept. 11 tragedy were being engulfed by political bickering?
I like to think that this hypothetical leader would have found a way to rise above the fray and unite the country: He would have embraced the commission's work, forthrightly admitted his own mistakes, sent his national security adviser to testify publicly -- and insisted that the security of the United States was too important to be buried in election-year squabbles.
President Bush and his White House handlers did pretty much the opposite. They fanned the flames of partisan debate; when asked awkward questions, they stonewalled; rather than testify before the cameras, national security adviser Condoleezza Rice spent part of her Wednesday afternoon dishing dirt to reporters about a commission witness who had criticized the president.
Bush flunked the test, in other words...
A "wartime president" would find ways to rise above this partisan din and speak to the country, calmly and convincingly. He would take the blame onto his own shoulders, rather than leaving it for subordinates to admit mistakes. In his speeches and by his very body language, he would defuse the apprehension and anger people feel in such stressful times.
For reasons that are hard to fathom, Bush still lacks that reassuring touch. More than three years into his presidency, he still looks uneasy in many of his public appearances; he still lacks the grace and charm of a Ronald Reagan that would disarm critics. In recent months, he has seemed oddly off-key even on the issues that matter to him most, such as terrorism.
posted by squirrel at 3:43 PM on March 26, 2004
tomcosgrave for US Ambassador!
posted by thomcatspike at 3:49 PM on March 26, 2004
posted by thomcatspike at 3:49 PM on March 26, 2004
There's a lot of love in this room right now.
I really, really wanted to say some far more reviling/revolting stuff, a lot of it involving kablam's mother, but have refrained after how poorly the last comment I made in anger and haste was taken.
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 4:01 PM on March 26, 2004
I really, really wanted to say some far more reviling/revolting stuff, a lot of it involving kablam's mother, but have refrained after how poorly the last comment I made in anger and haste was taken.
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 4:01 PM on March 26, 2004
jpoulos and lord_wolf:
Please call me for the next meeting. I missed the last one because I was getting married to my dog.
posted by strangeleftydoublethink at 4:10 PM on March 26, 2004
Please call me for the next meeting. I missed the last one because I was getting married to my dog.
posted by strangeleftydoublethink at 4:10 PM on March 26, 2004
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It would be absolutely tragic to see this man drag America down any more than he has.
Sorry for the messy post. I'm just having a hard time articulating how I feel after reading that article.
posted by tomcosgrave at 8:21 AM on March 26, 2004